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    Save The World By First Saving Yourself

    We each have a role to play in how the world recovers from the coming crisis
    by Chris Martenson

    Friday, August 23, 2019, 5:00 PM

Ripped from today’s headlines:

From news reports like these, it’s understandable to think that our future looks bleak.

At this point we can only ride out the consequences as the systems we depend on collapse and then ebb away — exposing that the structure of our modern way of life is really a just an edifice built of sand.

That may be true. But not necessarily.

I’m here with some good news today. There remains a multitude of options that each of us can and should do to prepare for what lies ahead. And in so doing, we can help to avert the worst of it, as well.

But only if enough of us try. Critical mass is key here.

Yes, the world is busy collapsing around us. That’s true.

But collapse is a process, not an event. It can be ameliorated and even reversed, depending on the actions we decide to take from here.

And there’s still time left to change our fate.  Not much, mind you. But enough to matter.

The good news is that more and more people are heeding the call and taking action. The bad news is that too many still aren’t.

And the worse news is that the many entrenched powers of the status quo are working against our future best interests, as they desperately cling to old notions of advantage, wealth, and privilege.

Privately, many of the wealthiest and most politically powerful people are as worried as you and I about what’s coming. I can tell you from my personal interactions with them that many of the elite are preparing for crisis, building resilient “bug out” retreats and other safeguards.

Don’t Rely On The Herd

Our model at Peak Prosperity remains: Learn, Decide, Act.

It all begins with educating ourselves about the (complex) systems in play and the forces driving where developments are headed.

From there, we ask that you trust yourself.  This is especially important because, as social creatures, we are most comfortable moving where the herd is already moving. But by its nature, the herd (i.e., majority) is often behind the curve.

It takes time for privately-held but critically-important information to become acknowledged and accepted by the herd. Which is why so many of the masses become unsuspecting collateral damage when crisis hits. Since they aren’t privy to the early warnings, which are usually only noticed and appreciated by a proactive minority, they are caught by surprise.

And for many, even if they’re made aware of privately-held  information, they still won’t depart from the false comfort of the herd.  This explains the mysterious “bystander phenomenon” where people fail to come to the aid of a victim in distress if they don’t see other people reacting, too.

We all have the wired tendency to wait until others are moving before we move, too.  Take a crowded theater, where a fire breaks out and smoke starts to billow into the space.  A few people first take notice and begin to move to the exits.  Then a few more.  But at some point, the idea of a fire becomes ‘common knowledge’, when everyone believes everyone else agrees the theatre is on fire.  Then bedlam and chaos break out.

As we wrote at length in this recent report, it’s really important to understand the importance and power of this tipping point, when previously privately-held ideas suddenly become common knowledge. Because that’s the moment where the status quo quickly morphs into something new, usually catching the herd completely flat-footed.

Trust Yourself

As I launched our Crash Course video series back in 2008, I implored people to trust themselves on a whole host of economic and financial indicators that were flashing red.  We’re trained to trust authorities who sometimes don’t have our best interests in mind and who sometimes are even more clueless than average and really have no good answers, or even harmful ones.

I wanted folks to look at the data and decide for themselves whether the official narrative of “there’s nothing to worry about” truly made sense. Just a few weeks after I published the final chapter of the series, the Great Financial Crisis erupted and oil shot above $100/barrel for the next several years — and the rest, as they say, is history.

I wrote in 2009:

The key to navigating during moments when the dominant story is ‘wrong’ is to consciously block out the ‘programming’ that is constantly reinforcing the status quo and to examine each assertion made by authorities (and by advertising and journalists, and any and all experts, myself included) as though it were possibly a live hand grenade.

While you may ultimately end up agreeing with the assertion or claim, your first instinct should be one of suspicion. Often my first clue that I need to do more research into a particular assertion is simply a gut feeling that “something is not right here.” Even when I cannot quite articulate why, and maybe have almost zero hard data on the matter, I have learned to trust my instincts for when a story just doesn’t add up.

This principle can be applied to the Bernie Madoff swindle. Many investors have recently described that they had suspicions and concerns over the years about the steadiness of Bernie’s investment returns. Yet they kept their money with him. If they had simply trusted themselves and decided to move their money to an institution where they did not have these gut-level concerns, they’d be in infinitely better shape right now.

The benefits of trusting yourself, and applying your private knowledge, can be huge. The Bernie Madoff case illustrates this perfectly.

Lots of people had their private concerns, but since ‘nobody else’ seemed to notice or care, they did nothing.  It was only once it all became “common knowledge” that the whole Madoff swindle broke into a shocking, wealth destroying scandal.

To avoid this fate, a key success strategy we can practice is to ‘trust ourselves’. Trust that our private knowledge is sufficient, and be confident that, eventually, the common knowledge crowd will catch up to us.

So what matters most is that we Act in advance of crisis. Especially, when those around us aren’t.

What I most want you to do, is to act on what you know.  Because it’s time.  Because you already know just how screwed up the systems are.  Because your trust in the collective political and corporate leadership to act responsibly has eroded.  Because you just know it in your gut.

It Takes Effort

Once the ball gets rolling, and more of the above concerns move from private to common knowledge, you should expect the pace of developments speed up quickly.

It’s like how Hemmingway answered the question “How did you go bankrupt?”. Gradually then suddenly.

So my question to you is, how many of these things are you holding right now as private knowledge?

  • The US justice system is corrupt and favors the wealthy
  • US financial markets are rigged and unfair
  • Our food system is, by and large, selling us toxic junk
  • Chemicals, such as neonicotinoids, are not fully tested before their deployment and are more harmful to our ecosystems than publicly admitted
  • Pharmaceutical companies often hide test results from the public that would reveal their drugs are less effective than advertised and have far riskier side effects
  • We should be a hell of a lot more concerned about the massive die-offs in animal, insect and marine life.
  • Weather patterns are become more extreme at a faster rate. Drought, heat, fires, hurricanes, and floods are happening with greater frequency and intensity than experienced in the past century.
  • The US political and military systems are not concerned about human rights or democracy. Instead, the US operates more as a modern version of the British empire, whose Redcoats mainly protected trade and other mercantile interests.

I’ll wager few, if any, of these feel untrue to you.

I think part of the reason that such damaging revelations still remain as private knowledge is because moving them into common knowledge requires the destruction of closely-held belief systems. It takes time, mental effort and emotional strain to admit to ourselves that those in charge of society may actually not have our interests at heart.

Again, nature has provided strong protections to maintaining existing belief systems.  Maybe it’s just too hard or expensive to alter them?

Whatever the reason, the more central the belief system, the more tightly we cling to it.

Some of the most tightly-held beliefs being:

  • Faith in authority
  • A belief in the fundamental goodness of people
  • Believing that your country is both moral and good
  • Bedrock knowledge that the justice system is blind and fair
  • A belief that nature will always bounce back

It’s far easier to live day to day walking around believing the above are true.  A thousand times easier than giving them up.

To lose faith in these beliefs means squinting at every package label of food, wondering what hidden toxins might be lurking within.

It means questioning every news release.  Take the recent coverage of the Epstein “suicide” (in quotes because it has been reported that after allegedly leaning forward onto paper-thin bedding to strangle himself ‘multiple bones in his neck were broken, among which was the hyoid’ … yeah, right, got it…ummmm…wait…back up… multiple bones?)

It means Googling your medical symptoms because you don’t fully trust in the treatment plan and prescriptions your health insurer is willing to cover.

I get it.  All this work is definitely not as easy as trusting in the basic systems that govern and support our lives.

Challenging “Growth”

But the biggest fallacy of them all, the biggest belief system that is increasingly under attack in both private and common knowledge, is the idea that perpetual exponential economic growth is good, let alone possible.

Those like us at Peak Prosperity are unsettled with our private understanding that it isn’t. The public is catching on, albeit very slowly.  While the keepers of the system remain busy deflecting attention and delaying the inevitable.

But it won’t matter.  Eventually the reality catches up.  Private knowledge becomes common knowledge and then everything changes very suddenly.

All of which brings me to my conclusions:  Think for yourself.  Make up your own mind.  Be secure in your ability to think for yourself. And act now, before things get materially worse and your options become much more limited.

Which leads to my motto: I’d rather be a year early than a day late.

Tomorrow Needs Heroes Like You

You already know that it’s time to prepare for whatever is coming.  None of us knows exactly how and when it will manifest, but our Spidey Senses are tingling loudly at this point.

We see the building tension in the mass Yellow Vest restiveness across France.  And in the millions of protestors in Hong Kong.

It’s in the quickening breakdown of political goodwill between nations.  It’s in the trade disputes.  And in every tweet and headline desperately floated out there to divert the public’s attention from the problems we face.

It’s in the sudden appearance of $16.5 trillion of negative yielding debt and the many companies that make no profit but are apparently worth tens of $billions of dollars each.

All of which signals: It’s time. Time to act before the system falls apart.

Change is happening. Abrupt departures from the script are already occurring.

Which is why I implore you to see to your own provisions now, and to take the necessary steps to align your personal actions with your private knowledge.

Specifically, we have and continue to encourage folks to:

Step 1: Make sure your wealth is safely managed by prudent professionals or is entirely out of the markets. Our endorsed financial advisor uses a variety of hedging techniques to manage risk on existing positions to both limit downside as well as generate some additional returns.

Step 2: Have at least 3 months in physical cash on hand, and out of the banking system, for immediate access during an unexpected emergency. Beyond that, consider holding any remaining cash you have ‘in the system’ inside the US government’s TreasuryDirect program, where it will earn a higher return with greater safety vs being in a bank. Read our primer on how to use TreasuryDirect.

Step 3: Have a ‘crisis stash’ of physical gold and silver stored somewhere safe where you can get to it yourself, possibly quickly. Read our free primer on how to purchase and store precious metals.

Step 4: Get prepared. Be sure to have all the emergency basics safely stored and readily accessible. Food, water, personal protection, medical supplies, etc. This is smart preparation against any kind of unexpected crisis — be it a natural disaster, a painful economic downturn, social unrest, or something even worse. But it also to give you the peace of mind that will free you up for step 5.

Step 5: Be positioned to help those less prepared than you. Review our detailed What Should I Do? Guide, which is full of steps to take to get yourself well-prepared in advance for what’s coming. The most likely outcome of all this, probability-wise is a grinding decline that causes people to lose jobs and hope. Your role, as one who prepared in advance and hopefully still thriving, will be to offer as much support as you can to the masses who were caught unawares.

…and the above are just the absolute basics. We get into MUCH more detail on the wide range of steps you can (and should!) take to live with greater resilience in your life at the PeakProsperity.com website and in our book, Prosper!: How to Prepare for the Future and Create a World Worth Inheriting. You should start reading both

These are all reflections of the idea that the current way of doing things cannot last.  It’s no longer a good strategy to assume that they will.

It really all boils down to this: To save the world you first need to save yourself.

But first you have to trust yourself enough to act on your own.  You may be the first among your friends and neighbors, or one of the final early movers within your community who shakes the herd of out its complacency to bolt for the exit.

In Part 2: Becoming Tomorrow’s Hero, we provide specific guidance on additional critical steps every one of us should take to bolster our (and our community’s) ability to persevere through the challenging times ahead.

Act now to get yourself safely and smartly positioned. Inspire as many others as possible to follow your model. And perhaps, together, we just might be able to save this world.

Click here to read Part 2 of this report (free executive summary, enrollment required for full access).

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60 Comments

  • Fri, Aug 23, 2019 - 7:56pm

    #1

    Mark_BC

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 30 2010

    Posts: 298

    6+

    Nice summary.

    I agree with virtually everything. Just a few random comments for consideration:

    1. Not that it makes much difference, but the amazon, or any other stable forest for that matter, does not take in co2 and release oxygen. It is a widespread myth. That chemical equation in the above sentence mysteriously leaves out where the carbon goes. In reality, any carbon a tree gains from growing is ultimately released when the tree dies and decomposes. But of course, burning the amazon net contributes carbon as that stored reservoir is released.
    2. I understood mercantilism to be running a perpetual trade surplus so that gold accumulated in the nation in question. This seems to be the opposite of how the West is operating these days. I don’t quite understand what is going on with gold movements around the world. We should find out soon enough however.
    3. To the bullet list of widely tightly held but false beliefs is the faith that technology will save us no matter what. It always has and always will. The emergence of solar power and e transportation reinforces this in people’s minds. However, the data reveals otherwise due to the sheer scale of our energy predicament and ecological overshoot, and because our economic overlords continue to push economic growth which outstrips any efficiency gains from e transportation.
    4. People are reluctant to accept the truth not only because of herd mentality, but because they don’t want to lose their faith in their world views. To accept the truths Chris summarizes in the other bullet list is to give up on so much of what they believe to be good about the world. A shift in attitude will only come after it is forced due to losing everything and being shocked. But by then it will be too late, the ponzi scheme will gave burst. Unfortunately, the elites use this human trait to rip us all off because so many are not willing to question the system for the scam that it is and the elites get away with murder.

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  • Sat, Aug 24, 2019 - 8:33am

    #2

    LesPhelps

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 30 2009

    Posts: 480

    1+

    I Am Not Atlas

    My sleeves are rolled up, but I’ve come to realize that I’m not Atlas.

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  • Sat, Aug 24, 2019 - 8:43am

    Reply to #2

    LesPhelps

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 30 2009

    Posts: 480

    1+

    Wrong Media Link Above

    Sorry, I tried to link Don Henley’s “The Cost of Living,” from Cass County.  Love that album.

    Anyway, this new website doesn’t allow me to delete or modify posts.  Also, the video is now blocked for copyright reasons.

     

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  • Sat, Aug 24, 2019 - 8:49am

    Reply to #2

    Adam Taggart

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: May 25 2009

    Posts: 2620

    2+

    Edit/Delete control coming back soon (I promise!)

    Just a reiteration that we’re painfully aware of the desire/need to restore folk’s ability to edit & delete their comments.

    Fixing this seemingly simple glitch has proved (much) more frustrating than I ever expected. But we are close. Within days.

    Trust me, no one wants this swiftly resolved more than I do. Thanks for your patience.

    cheers,

    A

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  • Sat, Aug 24, 2019 - 9:05am

    #3
    mjtrac

    mjtrac

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    Posts: 6

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    important beliefs

    Chris,

    The one belief that I doubt I could go on without is the belief that every person has within ourselves a capacity to do good, to contribute to the world.  So I’m not ready to challenge the idea that people are good.  But it seems transparently clear that once societies create hierarchies, human temptation gets out of hand and people’s behavior tends to goes south.  So I’m not hoping that the existing system(s) gets “repaired.”  The hierarchies *are* the problem.

    But, IMO, so is the idea that “to save the world you first need to save yourself.”  Whenever I hear this, the mental image I get is of a liver cell, convinced that it can save its environment by being a good liver cell, and in denial about the role played by the larger environment, specifically the alcoholic human of which it is a part.  To save yourself you need to save the world.  And that, it seems to me, is the thing none of us want to hear.

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  • Sat, Aug 24, 2019 - 9:11am

    #4
    S7

    S7

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Nov 29 2009

    Posts: 12

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    What lies ahed

    Nice observation Mark BC about the Amazon or any other stable forest taking in CO2 and releasing Oxygen. This is another failure in the education system specifically relating to the sciences. Like the belief/theory postulated by Fred Whipple that comets are large chunks of ice sublimating in outer space to leave behind the visible tail. People, in general and I believe in the majority, have little to no ability to critically think or analyze things to make better choices for their future, hence they trust elected people in government to make those decisions, and there are a lot of self serving, really screwed up minds in the government. Most will accept the story (fairy tale) they are being programmed with and not question anything.

    In the 70’s, we were heading into another ice age.

    In the 90’s the ice caps were melting and global warming was going to scorch the Earth.

    2010, it’s climate change. A, duh, climate does change.

    Now, pollution, I believe is the main problem facing our planet. The Earth has been here long before this iteration of God created man, and it will be here long after. The pollution will probably be here long after we destroy the Eco-system that supports our life.  But those invested in the status quo cannot see any other way than to build, consume, waste, repeat. They are dependent upon other people not related to them to work and provide a comfortable lifestyle.

    Invest in yourself and your skill set. I like to say, those who can’t do sell. Those who can’t sell go to work for the government.

    Perfect example yesterday for me. I was working on site at one of my customers locations and one of the employees told me they had quit and got a job at the local public utility district. (Now I appreciate electricity but the waste and inefficiency of this outfit is a perfect example of why our government is so incompetent). I will regularly see 2 or 3 or 4 P.U.D. trucks with 6 to 8 people standing around for hours doing nothing, waiting for their shift to end. Leaning up against their trucks, smoking a cigarette or doing something on their phone, making $35-40 an hour.  If there is no emergency, they are in no hurry to do anything. The flaggers are making $27 an hour. So I tell my friend, who just recently got hired at PUD, “you know, you are now a non economic producer for society for the rest of your life? Paying taxes on money that was taken from others in the form of taxes is not producing anything”. he answered, “I don’t care, my mom works there, it’s got great benefits and an awesome retirement after 25 years”.

    That, right there is a major slap in the face to the privately employed individual who is constantly paying more taxes each year to pay for these kind of jobs and trying to keep a roof over their families head. I understand some of those jobs are necessary, but the fact that they pay far better than private employment and there is virtually no accountability for the work, or lack there of, they do is sad. And for a large group of people, that is their goal, get employed by the government.

    Government, the welfare state with a future.

     

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  • Sat, Aug 24, 2019 - 10:04am

    Reply to #3
    Rodster

    Rodster

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    Joined: Aug 22 2016

    Posts: 30

    metric Wrote:

    But it seems transparently clear that once societies create hierarchies, human temptation gets out of hand and people’s behavior tends to goes south.  So I’m not hoping that the existing system(s) gets “repaired.”  The hierarchies *are* the problem.

    You must been reading John Michael Greer’s latest article because he delves and fully explores that very same topic !

    The Dream of a Managed Society

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  • Sat, Aug 24, 2019 - 11:03am

    #5
    phoenixl

    phoenixl

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Nov 01 2015

    Posts: 8

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    You can't use Treasury Direct without going through your bank, so...

    It just occurred to me that although you can get more interest putting your cash into Treasury Direct, it is not necessarily “safer” as you say, since the money has to go from your bank account to Treasury Direct, and from Treasury Direct back to your bank account. So if we are worried that a bank can fail or more likely that a bank just freezes your accounts and makes you a “shareholder” overnight, then your money is still not safe. Any money going from Treasury Direct back into your bank account will not be available to you under these scenarios (bank failure or bank confiscation). So perhaps better just to say you can make greater interest (although still not much), but that your cash really isn’t any safer.  Please let me know if I have misunderstood how Treasury Direct works.

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  • Sat, Aug 24, 2019 - 12:41pm

    Reply to #5

    Adam Taggart

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: May 25 2009

    Posts: 2620

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    Not accurate

    phoenixl wrote:

    It just occurred to me that although you can get more interest putting your cash into Treasury Direct, it is not necessarily “safer” as you say, since the money has to go from your bank account to Treasury Direct, and from Treasury Direct back to your bank account. So if we are worried that a bank can fail or more likely that a bank just freezes your accounts and makes you a “shareholder” overnight, then your money is still not safe. Any money going from Treasury Direct back into your bank account will not be available to you under these scenarios (bank failure or bank confiscation).

    Here’s how I understand it and have experienced how TreasuryDirect works to-date.

    TreasuryDirect takes $ out of my bank account to purchase a T-bill (or note or bond), which is then held for me at the US Treasury.

    Since I choose to roll over my T-bills as they come due into new T-bills, the Treasury re-invests my principal for me. That money does not make a round-trip back through my bank account beforehand.

    So, let’s say I set up TreasuryDirect to purchase a 3-mo T-bill and then reinvest it for 6 cycles. My principal will be held throughout this time (=18 months) at the US Treasury. If my bank were to fail during this period, my funds would not be affected, as they’re not in the bank; they’re at the Treasury.

    And I have the option at any time to change which bank account I want the principal returned to when the reinvestment cycle ends. So if my original Bank A fails, I can just log into TreasuryDirect and specify that the funds should be returned to my other account at the more-solvent Bank B.

    ______

    Extra credit: The only $ moving from TreasuryDirect to my bank during the re-investment cycle is my yield (the annualized ~2% that T-bills currently pay out). This is paid up front, when each new T-bill is purchased. Those payments, which are a small fraction of your principal, could conceivably be frozen/appropriated during the “bank holiday” you fear. Unless, of course, you withdraw them as they arrive.

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  • Sat, Aug 24, 2019 - 3:00pm

    Reply to #1

    Pipyman

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 24 2011

    Posts: 65

    2+

    Amazon

    Not really sure I accept the basic premise here, I mean, it seems a little simplistic to say the least; human beings seem to be good at hubris. But, let’s just say I did accept your premise; what’s your point? I mean, isn’t that like saying   at some point the water in the ice on Greenland goes back to the see? I mean, it’s a store of carbon that emits 20% of our oxygen. Do we want none of the oxygen and the carbon in the atmosphere? The fact that the Amazon isn’t a magic carbon sponge seems irrelevant…

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  • Sat, Aug 24, 2019 - 5:00pm

    Reply to #5

    bluebird

    Status Member (Online)

    Joined: Sep 05 2008

    Posts: 3

    4+

    TreasuryDirect

    I have a TreasuryDirect account that I have linked to both a bank and a credit union. There is an option at TreasuryDirect to easily add another financial institution to redeem/purchase Treasury Bills.

    Also, one doesn’t need to redeem/purchase every T-Bill from one’s financial institution. One can use the holding area in TreasuryDriect called the “Certificate of Indebtedness” to redeem/purchase T-Bills automatically.

    I have four 4-week T-Bills that automatically roll over in TreasuryDirect, one T-Bill every week.   The T-Bills can be set a maximum of 26 times to roll automatically from the “C of I”.  The number of times to roll automatically can be reset when the number gets low to a higher number, or redeem the T-Bill back to one’s financial institution.

    If one doesn’t want to purchase/redeem T-Bills, the “C of I’ can hold your extra cash indefinitely. Note that the “C of I” does not earn any interest.

    more info at this link about the “C of I’

    https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/help/TDHelp/help_ug_152-CofILearnMore.htm

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  • Sun, Aug 25, 2019 - 7:51am

    Reply to #5
    phoenixl

    phoenixl

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Nov 01 2015

    Posts: 8

    2+

    Thanks for the clarification

    I didn’t know you could tell Treasury Direct to send your funds to a different bank. That makes all the difference. Thanks!

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  • Sun, Aug 25, 2019 - 8:26am

    #6
    yagasjai

    yagasjai

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 18 2009

    Posts: 20

    Taxes for Income Generated Through Treasury Direct

    What kind of documentation is provided for the income you earn through Treasury Direct (that you would need for preparing your taxes) and at what rate is that income taxed?

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  • Sun, Aug 25, 2019 - 8:35am

    Reply to #6

    Adam Taggart

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: May 25 2009

    Posts: 2620

    2+

    TreasuryDirect tax reporting

    Yagasjai —

    You can find the details on TreasuryDirect tax reporting here, but in most cases, the interest income you receive from standard Treasury securities will be reported on Form 1099-INT

    A notable benefit of the interest payments you receive is that they are exempt from state & local income taxes.

    cheers,

    A

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  • Sun, Aug 25, 2019 - 8:39am

    Reply to #1

    Mark_BC

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 30 2010

    Posts: 298

    1+

    Not really sure I accept the basic premise here, I mean, it seems a little simplistic to say the least; human beings seem to be good at hubris. But, let’s just say I did accept your premise; what’s your point?

    You mean my premise that forests don’t produce oxygen? Well I’m just pointing it out because it is incorrect. Forests do not emit oxygen. There is nothing in the chemical equations where oxygen is emitted. They absorb carbon dioxide as they are growing up until they reach their maximum biomass, after which that carbon can be stored as a reservoir if the forest remains stable and standing, or is re-emitted again if the forest burns down.

    The equation overall is: CO2 + H2O => C6H10O5 (the formula for cellulose)

    There is more oxygen on the left than on the right when you balance it out which means O2 should be released as the tree grows but only until the forest reaches maturity, after which it enters steady state where no oxygen or carbon is net absorbed or released, other than through the tannins that leach through the soil and go down the rivers. Additionally, some of the CO2 that is absorbed by a mature forest is re-emitted as methane from termites’ guts, so it may actually produce more greenhouse gases than it absorbs (methane is a more powerful GHG than CO2), depending on the forest.

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  • Sun, Aug 25, 2019 - 8:42am

    #7
    Lions

    Lions

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    Joined: May 19 2018

    Posts: 18

    1+

    I am buying short-term t-bills through my brokerage account

    I am buying one month t-bills through my brokerage account and I do not have them on automatic roll over because I want to be able to make a move and buy more gold in the event that the crisis hits. I understand that fidelity uses at least three different banks as to where your funds are held when the money hit your account. I am not sure that this is safe. I am very concerned about losing all of my money and have been holding back and buying more gold because of the price. It is hard when you do not have other like-minded individuals to communicate about the subject. I am thinking that the best thing may just be to convert everything or nearly everything into gold at any price because the devil is now at the doorstep.

     

    Thank you

     

    Laurie G

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  • Sun, Aug 25, 2019 - 10:15am

    Reply to #1

    Pipyman

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 24 2011

    Posts: 65

    ?????

    You’re clearly far more knowledgeable than I am in this area. However, you just told me at the base, that, forests aren’t a significant reason I’m breathing; not to mention a reason my soul continues to “breath”. Now, I can’t prove you wrong, but, deep down, I know you are…

     

    Best Pip

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  • Sun, Aug 25, 2019 - 10:21am

    Reply to #1

    Pipyman

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 24 2011

    Posts: 65

    Also

    what relevance does the oxygen in water bound to hydrogen have to my love for breathing? Is it me?

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  • Sun, Aug 25, 2019 - 11:25am

    #8
    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 19 2016

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    I appreciate the chemistry

    And maybe Pipyman is taking this wrong.   I think it is important to know the facts, so I realy appreciate the information to realize that a steady state forest is neutral on the chemistry. I often wonder why we oversimplify in our teachings of the sciences when it would be just as easy to state the reality.   Of course, I think this about my field, so about the physics of current, but I get wanting to correct common fallacies.

    But even though a mature forest is overall neutral, what the trees do is bank the carbon, they store it until they decompose or burn.  Or, if they are buried in the soil or water when they die they do not decompose as fast ( or at all in the right water conditions) so they keep holding on to that carbon.

    Obviously cutting down all the trees is a problem as then all that carbon is released all at once instead of being in a steady state and storing carbon.  A forest left alone, some die and new ones sprout, so overall, the carbon is stored.  If you cut or burn them all down at once, that carbon is released.  Unless you replant continually, yes, we have less carbon banked in the trees and more out in the rest of the world.  If you plant new trees, they will also store carbon.  So, if you are planting enough then it will take carbon out of the system and store it, you will have more stored than previously as you have more trees or forest overall.  Healthy soil also slows down carbon release, it contains alot of organic matter and thus banks alot of carbon.  When we denude soil and with modern farming practices make it sterile dirt we release alot of carbon too as the carbon that was there oxydizes and we do not replace it with decaying plant matter.

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  • Sun, Aug 25, 2019 - 11:59am

    #9
    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

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    ok, changing my mind, what about photosynthesis ?

    This is obviously not my field, plant chemistry.

    And, I did appreciate the chemistry of the carbon cycle of trees, the chemistry of how they make cellulose. ANd, most of that is done while they grow. Ok.

    But, the entire time they are living the do photosynthesis.

    Again, not my field, but I have looked this up in a few places and they all say that photosynthesis reactions also have excess oxygen that is released.

     

    so, is this true ?  ”  There are two parts of the plant metabolic cycle that are not shared by animals.  These are photophosphorylation (light cycle) and sugar reduction (known as the Calvin cycle or dark cycle).  The reduction of carbon dioxide into pyruvate (three membered ring) does not require sunlight, so carbon dioxide is consumed regardless.  However, reduction requires a coupled release of energy that is provided by the hydrolysis of ATP.  This is where light plays the role:  water serves as the electron donor to form oxygen gas at the end of the photosystem I.  For every reduction, there must be an oxidation, and the formation of oxygen is this.  Oxygen gas is also formed during carbon fixation, but remarkably less so.

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  • Sun, Aug 25, 2019 - 12:16pm

    #10
    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

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    I found lots of complicated explanations, but here is a very simpified equation for it

    3. What is the chemical equation for photosynthesis?

    The chemical equation for photosynthesis is the following:

    6 CO₂ + 6 H₂O + light –> C₆H₁₂O₆ + 6 O₂

    but, Kahn academy has a few videos on photosynthesis, here is part of a transcript from one, and I bet watching a few would help understand, if we have time.  Plant cells need sugar, ATP, they need energy every day, not just while growing

    ” ….  Now, I also said that part of this process, water– and this is actually a very interesting thing– water gets oxidized to molecular oxygen. So where does that happen? So when I said, up here in photosystem I, that we have a chlorophyll molecule that has an electron excited, and it goes into a higher energy state. And then that electron essentially gets passed from one guy to the next, that begs the question, what can we use to replace that electron? And it turns out that we use, we literally use, the electrons in water. So over here you literally have H2O. And H2O donates the hydrogens and the electrons with it. So you can kind of imagine it donates two hydrogen protons and two electrons to replace the electron that got excited by the photons. Because that electron got passed all the way over to photosystem I and eventually ends up in NADPH. So, you’re literally stripping electrons off of water. And when you strip off the electrons and the hydrogens, you’re just left with molecular oxygen. Now, the reason why I want to really focus on this is that there’s something profound happening here. Or at least on a chemistry level, something profound is happening. You’re oxidizing water. And in the entire biological kingdom, the only place where we know something that is strong enough of an oxidizing agent to oxidize water, to literally take away electrons from water. Which means you’re really taking electrons away from oxygen. So you’re oxidizing oxygen. The only place that we know that an oxidation agent is strong enough to do this is in photosystem II. So it’s a very profound idea, that normally electrons are very happy in water. They’re very happy circulating around oxygens. Oxygen is a very electronegative atom. That’s why we even call it oxidizing, because oxygen is very good at oxidizing things. But all of a sudden we’ve found something that can oxidize oxygen, that can strip electrons off of oxygen and then give those electrons to the chlorophyll. The electron gets excited by photons. Then those photons enter lower and lower and lower energy states. ….”

    https://www.khanacademy.org/science/biology/photosynthesis-in-plants/the-light-dependent-reactions-of-photosynthesis/v/photosynthesis-light-reactions-1

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  • Sun, Aug 25, 2019 - 12:28pm

    #11
    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

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    more confused than ever

    so, plants ALSO respirate  !  I have to go pick blackberries, so I am going to wiat for smarter plant chemistry minds.   So I do wonder, are the 2 equations equivalent ? You could just have plants doing their thing, sunlight, water and they just recycle the same amount of carbon dioxide and oxygen or is it overall unbalanced and they need a gas input ?

     

    In photosynthesis they use energy from sunlight to convert carbon dioxide and water into glucose and oxygen (they then use the glucose and release the oxygen). They can only perform photosynthesis during daylight as the energy required to perform this conversion is provided by the sun.

    In respiration they use glucose and oxygen to produce carbon dioxide and water. The energy released by breaking down the glucose is stored as ATP and used in cellular functions.

    The basic equations are below, but if you want to get more technical you can look at the Krebs cycle etc.

    Photosynthesis equation: 6CO2 + 6H2O —> C6H12O6 + 6O2
    Respiration equation: C6H12O6 + 6O2 —> 6CO2 + 6H2O

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  • Sun, Aug 25, 2019 - 2:09pm

    #12

    newsbuoy

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    Three G's

    To quote Gerald Celente: Guns, Gold and a Get-away plan

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  • Sun, Aug 25, 2019 - 3:39pm

    #13
    dolphinsrsmart

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    All Alone by the Bootstraps

    What I didn’t see in this article were concrete examples of people leaving the herd, but they are all over the place.  Quiz any small business owner, and you will find that they have left the herd (or a very high percentage of them).  They are trying to build wealth the old fashioned way (with very hard work) and it is very difficult since the government wants it all in taxes.  Between sales tax, property tax, warehouse tax, taxes on equipment, and taxes on anything one purchases for the business, not to mention insurances of all kinds, and lest we forget?  Health Insurance for a self-employed person.  But that doesn’t mean people are not trying.  Visit them, support them, shopt with them.  They are the resistance.

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  • Sun, Aug 25, 2019 - 4:26pm

    #14
    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

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    finally (maybe) an answer written for us non-specialists

    Finished harvesting and recovering from the heat.  Found this, which makes sense to my non-plant chemistry mind.  Basically, overall plants, while they are alive, release more Oxygen than they consume for respiration, which is when they break down the sugar and need Oxygen, because it is only part of what they do with the sugar. The other parts are the need for cellulose, etc….  Does make me wonder that they may not do as much photosynthesis when they are mature, why would they ? what are they doing with the sugar ? Root exudates ? Too many questions for a hot day

    https://scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=2860

    Everything I read seems to agree that it is the ocean, not the rainforest, producing the majority of the oxygen we need.  So, I guess worry about how we are killing the oceans is more appropriate.

     

     

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  • Sun, Aug 25, 2019 - 5:48pm

    Reply to #6
    Wade_Waters

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    Not sure why anyone would want to be purchasing treasuries these days.  What am I missing here?  The gold/silver train is about to leave the station.  All aboard, mates!

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  • Sun, Aug 25, 2019 - 11:29pm

    #15
    kalliste

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    It's the world's oceans not the forests that generate oxygen

    The surplus oxygen that enables life on Earth comes from the oceans.  Rising CO2 levels lead to a concomitant increase in O2 levels, due to the fertilising effect of CO2.  Ocean acidification isn’t really a problem because the CO2 gets used in photosynthesis. In fact, burning off all the world’s forests would cause an increase in O2 in the atmosphere.
    If the Yellowstone super-volcano cooks off it will release more pollution than a hundred human civilisations but, in the long view, the Earth’s biosphere will shrug it off as it has many times before.

    It’s always the apocalypse.  As the article says, get your own shit in order, everything dies. It’s how you get there not where you’re going.

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  • Mon, Aug 26, 2019 - 3:40am

    #16
    chipshot

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    How the World "Recovers" From the Coming Crisis?

    At the risk of being a Debbie-downer, does anyone truly believe the world will recover from the numerous, perilous predicaments created by humanity?

    If we haven’t already gone over the cliff (point of no return), collectively we show little interest and no ability to address the crises, at least not in a meaningful and timely manner.

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  • Mon, Aug 26, 2019 - 7:52am

    #17

    Waterdog14

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    Extinction Rebellion

    I sense the urgency in Chris’s article “Save the World by Saving Yourself First”.  If you want a heightened sense of urgency, watch the informative videos from the Extinction Rebellion (ER).  These folks are telling it like it is.  ER’s video entitled The Truth shows a young woman speaking unabashedly about collapse, death, the Overton Window (and how they are shifting the window of what is ok to talk about), etc.

    Today, a group of young college students are coming to my farm for a “Gee Whiz” tour on regenerative agriculture.  I’m likely to scare the crap out of them with talk of climate change and the ongoing collapse of insects, economy, and society.  It’s time.

    https://rebellion.earth/the-truth/the-emergency/

     

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  • Mon, Aug 26, 2019 - 9:14am

    Reply to #11

    Mark_BC

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    Thanks for all the research mtnhousepermi, you basically figured it out. Overall, plants are just like us. Biochemically they are much closer to us than they are to bacteria. We respire by burning complex carbon molecules like carbohydrates in conjunction with oxygen to release water, co2 and energy. We are heterotrophs because we need to obtain those complex carbon molecules by eating some other organism. Plants respire just like we do. But they are autotrophs because they have additional metabolic pathways that enable them to make their own complex carbon molecules via photosynthesis, so they dont have to eat other organisms.

    So plants overall produce o2 and store carbon as they grow. This is ultimately reversed when the plant dies and decomposes or burns. If they live in a bog then their carbon wont decompose and will get stored “forever” as coal. Otherwise it will end up back in the atmosphere.

    As explained above, the real lungs of the earth are the oceans. They have chemistry that can lock up carbon and turn it into deep sea ooze or oil, essentially forever unless we drill for it. This comes from algae photosynthesizing then falling to the bottom of the ocean. That carbon doesn’t get a chance to decompose and return to the atmosphere.

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  • Mon, Aug 26, 2019 - 9:42am

    #18

    Mark_BC

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    Just to add a bit more perspective, over the earth’s history the concentration of co2 has generally steadily declined as carbon was stored in the ground as fossil fuels. This has coincided with the sun getting hotter and hotter. The net result has been a more or less constant average temperature. Eventually the sun will overpower the earth’s ability to reduce its greenhouse effect. This will be in the next several hundred million years. In a billion years the sun will expand to almost envelop the earth. Then the challenge for life will be to find a new habitable zone in the outer solar system.

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  • Mon, Aug 26, 2019 - 4:53pm

    Reply to #5
    Wolfbay

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    Roth or sep treasury direct?

    Is it possible to set up a Roth or Sep treasury direct account?

    Also I have some CD s paying between 2.8 and 3.65% and I’m finding it hard to cash them in for treasuries that pay much less. If a bank fails and the government reneges on FDIC I would imagine it would lead to bank runs and the collapse of the banking system. Isn’t it likely the FED will just print more funny money and cover the loses?

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  • Mon, Aug 26, 2019 - 6:07pm

    Reply to #5
    dryam2000

    dryam2000

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    3% on CDs vs. 1.5% on t-bills

    I personally view t-bills as wanting return of my investment and not return on investment.  Obviously we all want a litter higher interest rate but it’s only a small difference relative to the the rapid ongoing changes of today’s financial system.  Balancing out fairly safe cash equivalents are things that should do well with currency debasement (hard assets).  My personal view of preserving wealth these days is fairly binary with having safe cash equivalents and hard assets.

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  • Tue, Aug 27, 2019 - 4:36am

    Reply to #5
    dryam2000

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    I couldn’t edit my post above.  What I was trying to say was that the very small interest rate on cash equivalents is immaterial.  Security of the the cash equivalents is paramount.

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  • Tue, Aug 27, 2019 - 8:40pm

    Reply to #17
    Geedard

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    Thanks Waterdog14

    Thanks for the link Waterdog14 – the video is a good watch in a believable “feet firmly planted on the ground” style – easy on the eyes and ears. All the content I‘ve read or heard here regularly on the PP site already – however it’s a good video to us to help wake up people about the seriousness of our climate and environmental predicament and also the “runaway acceleration effects” of the word Exponential…  an good quality resource and message.

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  • Tue, Aug 27, 2019 - 9:00pm

    Reply to #1
    JMann

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    The entire system needs to come crashing down entirely. Usury and debt do not create wealth for the whole only for the few who’ve been able to get away with this scheme because of paid traitors in government. This system is nothing new but comes from Babylon. Those responsible for oppressing the masses globally must leave the earth in any expedient fashion. Anything associated with this existing system is smoke and mirrors.

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  • Tue, Aug 27, 2019 - 9:35pm

    Reply to #1
    Cornelius999

    Cornelius999

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    Excellent Video

    Excellent if grim video Waterdog 14.

    Thanks

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  • Wed, Aug 28, 2019 - 2:16am

    Reply to #15

    Pipyman

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    So,

    if we have too little oxygen burn down the Amazon? If the planet heats up too much due too humanity’s actions spray the stratosphere via SRM.

    Is there really any confusion as to why we’re screwed???

     

    HUBRIS……

     

    Great word…….

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  • Wed, Aug 28, 2019 - 6:36am

    #19

    Chris Martenson

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    On the Extinction Rebellion Video

    I do think the Extinction Rebellion is doing great work.  They are moving the Overton Window.  Allowing things to move from private into common knowledge.

    That’s all spot on.

    I watched the entire video and saw these pros and cons.

    Pros:

    • Delivered calmly
    • Giving voice to the emotional content of it all, and making room for people to feel overwhelmed or flooded with grief.
    • Laid out the facts of climate change and the systemic nature of things (feedback loops, tipping points, etc)
    • Directly ‘attacked’ people’s faith in technology by pointing out its limits and what it might not be able to do

    Cons:

    • Does not talk about what actually would have to be done if “carbon were cut by 50% immediately”
    • Skips over the massive impacts on people’s lives and lifestyles were we to get serious about decarbonizing
    • Did not connect the economy to energy (see above two points).
    • Was not open or honest about what success for the rebellion would look like and the impacts it would have if successful.

    The cons might be expressed like this:

    “The truth is we are all walking oil.  We eat fossil fuels.  So does our economy, and everybody sitting in this room has a job and a house and transports themselves based on the surplus energy liberated by burning fossil fuels.  Which means that cutting carbon by 50% will cause us to have to trim a lot of things from our current lifestyles.  What shall those things be?  Your job?  Your home’s heating and cooling?  Your food?  Because that’s what we’re really saying here. If we’re successful half of this room entirely loses its income whether from job loss or the inability to service pensions.”

    The ugly truth is the right time to have taken this all head-on was back in 1957 when Admiral Hyman Rickover laid out the logic of it all.  

    He said:

    We live in what historians may some day call the Fossil Fuel Age. Today coal, oil, and natural gas supply 93% of the world’s energy; water power accounts for only 1%; and the labor of men and domestic animals the remaining 6%. This is a startling reversal of corresponding figures for 1850 – only a century ago. Then fossil fuels supplied 5% of the world’s energy, and men and animals 94%. Five sixths of all the coal, oil, and gas consumed since the beginning of the Fossil Fuel Age has been burned up in the last 55 years.

    With high energy consumption goes a high standard of living. Thus the enormous fossil energy which we in this country control feeds machines which make each of us master of an army of mechanical slaves. Man’s muscle power is rated at 35 watts continuously, or one-twentieth horsepower. Machines therefore furnish every American industrial worker with energy equivalent to that of 244 men, while at least 2,000 men push his automobile along the road, and his family is supplied with 33 faithful household helpers. Each locomotive engineer controls energy equivalent to that of 100,000 men; each jet pilot of 700,000 men.

    Truly, the humblest American enjoys the services of more slaves than were once owned by the richest nobles, and lives better than most ancient kings. In retrospect, and despite wars, revolutions, and disasters, the hundred years just gone by may well seem like a Golden Age. Whether this Golden Age will continue depends entirely upon our ability to keep energy supplies in balance with the needs of our growing population.

    See?  It was entirely possible to both see and connect the energy-economy-lifestyle dots more than 60 years ago….when the population was less than half its current size and “the economy” was several doublings smaller.

    While I applaud the Extinction Rebellion I worry that by skipping over the true nature of what’s being asked they are committing the same “sin” as the scientists who self-censor in the interest of “not alarming people so much that my entire message is ignored.”

    They too seem to be comfortable saying “we’re moving the Overton Window, but not too far.”

    Maybe I just missed the part where they lay out what’s really being asked…that “decarbonizing” is the same thing as “de-economizing.”

    After all, “the economy” is our religion.  We pray to the gods of growth and they in turn bestow upon us super-comfortable lifestyles, new Netflix specials, and electric cars.

    It’s quite a lot to ask people to willingly give up anything, let alone nearly everything.

    Tricky work.  I don’t have the answers.  But I do think that complete honesty is essential here.  People will do the most amazing things if they believe in the story.

    So I’d love to hear the Extinction Rebellion (XR) leaders lay out exactly what they are asking for here.  If it’s “better government action on and attention to climate change” I’m not really on board.  There’s nothing politically to be done because there’s no political “win” anywhere in the story and humans, but especially politicians, are loathe to deliver losses to their constituents.

    If it’s the “widespread reformation of everything we do economically and how we consume” then I’m keen on it.

    Does anybody know what success looks like for XR?

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  • Wed, Aug 28, 2019 - 6:51am

    #20
    robie robinson

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    “Does anybody know what success looks like for XR?”

    50% Of humanity loses their jobs and better yet dies?

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  • Wed, Aug 28, 2019 - 6:56am

    #21

    newsbuoy

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    Anthony Bourdain Fans, Remember the Floating Villages in Mekong Delta Episode?

    https://thediplomat.com/2019/08/something-is-very-wrong-on-the-mekong-river/

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  • Wed, Aug 28, 2019 - 7:32am

    Reply to #19
    Petey1

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    Pain and Death

    Excellent summary Chris.  I don’t see a solution to this except pain and death.

    Example.  The average person just doesn’t understand the magnitude of the problem and frankly doesn’t seem to care.  A coworker and I were discussing future energy problems.  He said I don’t care what happens in twenty years as long as I have my air conditioning!  We live in Florida.  He was serious and not joking.  The sad thing,  he has two children in their twenties.

     

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  • Wed, Aug 28, 2019 - 7:36am

    Reply to #15
    Rodster

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    Re: SRM? Evidence Shows These Programs Have Long Been Started

    “f we have too little oxygen burn down the Amazon? If the planet heats up too much due too humanity’s actions spray stratosphere via SRM.

    Is there really any confusion as to why we’re screwed???”

    ——————————————————————————

    And yet Dane Wigington from https://geoengineeringwatch.org has documented evidence these programs are in full effect today and have been for many decades which helps explain some of the extreme wacky weather i.e. “weather whiplash”.

    Here’s a list of some of the patents being used already in SRM and many of these patents are owned by defense contractors: https://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/links-to-geoengineering-patents/

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  • Wed, Aug 28, 2019 - 8:01am

    Reply to #19
    MAV

    MAV

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    Good post Chris

    I liked this line a lot:

    “It’s quite a lot to ask people to willing[ly] give up anything, let alone nearly everything.”

    Reminds me of recent facebook posts and conversations about some restaurants  not providing straws.  It makes sense to me, a totally unnecessary single use item that we don’t use at home, why do we need one in a restaurant?

    There are some people who are genuinely angry about not getting a straw.  I see people mad about not getting a straw and just think “HOLY CRAP – you really have no clue what is coming.”

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  • Wed, Aug 28, 2019 - 8:29am

    Reply to #15

    Pipyman

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    Hmmmmmm

    Yes, Mr Wigington. I’ve heard his claims and seen his evidence; largely doesn’t pass my “BS” detector. But, what would ruling it out totally be………

     

    HUBRIS      🙂

     

    Therefore, I wont.

     

    After all, to do that I’d have to believe the Government wouldn’t lie to me!

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  • Wed, Aug 28, 2019 - 9:05am

    #22

    AKGrannyWGrit

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    Extinction Rebellion Video

    It’s hard to emotionally motivate people from a video like this one.  Pink and green hair and lots of talking.

    What has motivated me was living in a place that hit many new temperature extremes this summer and copious days of smoke filled skies due to multiple wildfires around the state.  Fire danger has been extreme.  Our thermometer hit 101 at our Farmstead this summer.  I remember summers where the temperature barely crept above the 70’s.  People respond better to being shown not told.  We are hard wired for stories not data.

    AKGrannyWGrit

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  • Wed, Aug 28, 2019 - 10:14am

    #23

    sand_puppy

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    Cognitive "On Ramps"

    We each require some time to reorganize into a new viewpoint.

    Similar to a car, stopped at a traffic light, that must merge into freeway traffic going 65 mph.  It requires an “on ramp” where the task where the first task is to accelerate from 0 to 10 mph. Once completed, the next task is from 10 to 20, etc.

    The immense personal impact of what is being required of us is impossible to swallow in one bite.

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  • Wed, Aug 28, 2019 - 10:51am

    Reply to #15
    Rodster

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    Yes, Mr Wigington. I’ve heard his claims and seen his evidence; largely doesn’t pass my “BS” detector. But, what would ruling it out totally be……

    You think Dane Wigington is a BS artist? Highly doubtful as former CIA Agent Kevin Shipp has admitted these programs are ongoing. John Brennan has used the same terminology as Wigington. Then of course there’s the 750 pg 1978 Senate Report detailing these programs.

    Then there is Vice President LBJ telling graduate students as far back as the early 60’s, “he who controls the weather will control the world”.

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  • Wed, Aug 28, 2019 - 10:59am

    Reply to #15

    newsbuoy

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    Lets not pretend to be experts, rather, present the science

    As much as the media incites us to be oppositional, there is the environmental science. Prof. Beckwith here will inform you about where oxygen comes from and by how much and the inter-relationships to CO2, etc.

    Meanwhile, CNN is using the environmental moment to safe it’s financial hide with a 7 hour “debate” on the environment with only Democratic candidates. DNC paid advert?

    https://www.youtube.com/user/PaulHBeckwith

     

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  • Wed, Aug 28, 2019 - 11:26am

    #24
    Geedard

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    Extinction video - awesome summary

    Respect. That was a brilliant analysis and summary Chris, even by your high standards. Your post really provoked me to think hard.   So I reviewed the ER website and the stated “1-2-3 demands” are much more about rattling the UK government cage to take responsibility and act, rather than making it clear to the public what the consequences of acting will eventually turn out to be for everyone… (i.e. the complete loss of “normal daily life” for most if not all of the human species that manages to survive the successful achievement of even a 25% decarbonisation ). Be careful what you wish for so to speak

    Ironically, the lady scientist openly admitted towards the end of the video that she had no personal concept of what life would be like if humanity struggled to find enough to eat…and cutting carbon by 50% (without an alternative to fill the gap) will mean exactly that…de-carbonising = de-economising = de-populationing…

    Damned if you do, or don’t is indeed a grim truth that most people don’t really wish to hear, including us.

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  • Wed, Aug 28, 2019 - 11:29am

    Reply to #7

    newsbuoy

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Dec 10 2013

    Posts: 138

    1+

    Bonds and Brokerages

    Are you buying Bonds via particular instruments?

    Be careful about whether what your buying is based on the price or the yield. ex Lots of folks are buying VGSH which is investing in the price of short-term gov treasures, so it’s price has been going up since the rate cuts started (and will continue) but at what point should one sell this ETF? ie will the rates ever go up? will the price crash? when and why?

    Also, you don’t need a brokerage. Anyone can open a free account at TreasuryDirect.gov and buy T-notes and bills for short-term safety and longer term T-bonds if that makes any sense to you.

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  • Wed, Aug 28, 2019 - 11:35am

    #25
    Geedard

    Geedard

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    Agree with Sand Puppy on ramp point

    I think Sand Puppy nails it to be honest…everyone needs an on ramp (or several) to assist the digestion…the step journey through to acceptance…

    The ER video helps to present one of the bite size chunks

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  • Wed, Aug 28, 2019 - 12:59pm

    #26

    thc0655

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 27 2010

    Posts: 1486

    6+

    A massive human die off is the only solution possible

    A massive human die off will dramatically reduce the consumers in the world and will destroy the economy and the capability to extract resources, generate pollution and create environmental damage. If we humans solve these predicaments without extreme death and destruction it will be the first time in human history. The problems will have to be made much smaller by some forcing function outside of human problem solving to reduce them to a scale the survivors can solve or adjust to.

    The only questions in my mind are how many will die, what will cause the deaths (war, disease, government democide, starvation), and in what time frame will most of the deaths occur?

    So I’m trying to be ready to respond to or avoid all four. That’s as optimistic as I can be.

    “Happy Hunger Games. And may the odds be ever in your favor.”

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  • Wed, Aug 28, 2019 - 1:53pm

    Reply to #15

    Pipyman

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    Posts: 65

    1+

    No

    I think Dane is probably earnest, I just don’t accept his evidence as “proof”. I also put that in the context of the three “e’s”; how much energy and resources would need to be deployed secretively to achieve what he claims? Really, no more natural weather?

     

    None of this means I know he’s wrong either! I just wouldn’t choose to invest my time and energy in it as I believe it’s a low probability reality. But, there’s also a lot of grey between white and black; who the hell knows how much he gets right?

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  • Thu, Aug 29, 2019 - 7:14am

    #27
    Penguin Will

    Penguin Will

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    3+

    I would like to give a hat tip to such a well heeled discussion. It was enjoyable to read all of the opinions and advice. There are some like me who, I believe, have far different motivations for our actions than that of those in the video though. And I think that’s fine.

    For some of us it is more about taking bits and pieces away from a huge and impersonal system that we have no input to or control over. And putting those little pieces under our stewardship. I trade a couple gallons of fuel mix and a lot of sweat to put my winter heating needs under our control. I trade a few hundred dollars, some TLC, and a good bit of sweat to plant a nice little orchard and take care of the legacy fruit trees on our place. And take control of that little piece. Same for the new grape arbor. And the new compost bin. And all of the work on the garden. And hopefully, soon for the new fencing and barn I need to run stock.

    Maybe I’m out of the norm I don’t know. But I can really relate to the old story about the monk who suddenly exclaims at dinner that he has found nirvana to which another, wiser monk tells him that is great and to now go wash his rice bowl. What I can say is that there may come a time when this nation and our communities transition from valuing debt and dependence to valuing independence and the ability to help one another out.

    I’m not sure we can afford the kind of ideological purity that some insist we have.

    Will

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  • Thu, Aug 29, 2019 - 6:33pm

    Reply to #15

    Mdjared

    Status Member (Online)

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    Dane Wigington

    I’ve worked with Dane for more than two years on his law suit efforts, and have been on many phone calls with multiple USAF Generals, aerosol scientists, soil scientists, biologists, and multiple attorneys and I can assure you his claims regarding the on-going geoengineering programs are very real. Sadly, deeply depressingly real.  I offer no opinion on his other claims, but the stratospheric aerosol programs are on-going and long-term in scale and scope.

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  • Fri, Aug 30, 2019 - 12:25am

    Reply to #19
    yagasjai

    yagasjai

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    "Does anybody know what success looks like for XR?"

    I would not underestimate the power of human beings fully engaging their minds, hearts, and bodies in the process of releasing the grief and terror that keeps us locked in self-destructive ruts. Rational reasoning isn’t ever enough to move the limiting beliefs we carry about our own potential or the potential of others. I have not been involved with XR yet, but would like to be, because as far as I can tell XR is offering space for people to face the feelings we would rather avoid, and in so doing, is freeing up people’s innate human intelligence to produce fresh responses that have not necessarily been thought of or tried yet. In this way, the approach is flexible, able to respond in the moment and location, as needed, without necessarily laying out ahead of time a particular framework or path to follow, and it strikes me as particularly resilient for its flexibility and adaptability. When was the last time you had a good cry about the Amazon burning? Or got to rage openly about the lack of insects? We’ve been trained to distrust and sequester those big unwieldy emotions and yet moving through them may actually be the key to turning things around.

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  • Fri, Aug 30, 2019 - 12:27am

    Reply to #15

    Pipyman

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 24 2011

    Posts: 65

    1+

    Wow

    Thanks for having the balls to Chime in….

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  • Fri, Aug 30, 2019 - 4:19am

    #28

    Waterdog14

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 18 2014

    Posts: 129

    2+

    More on Extinction Rebellion

    I agree with Chris that the ER (XR) doesn’t cover everything.  But here’s another video from ER founder Roger Hallam.  He describes how grief of climate change comes in waves, you gasp, you get over it, then you are “shitting yourself” when you realize the enormity of the problem, then the grief comes again.   He talks about how we’ve been pretending that someone will fix it, how we lie to ourselves and each other, how the Paris Climate accord is mass delusion.  Clearly ER/XR’s message is limited, because they are primarily focused on climate change and fossil fuels.   But Roger directly tells us that STARVATION is in the future for humans, along with continued extinction of other species and quite possibly our own, along with SOCIAL COLLAPSE and the END OF CIVILIZATION (a la Somalia, Afghanistan, Venezuela).  He states that the climate crisis means the state runs out of money, schools close, hospitals run out of resources, food is scarce…

    Chris has done a great job of educating the PP community and others about preparing for a low carbon future  Roger Hallam looks like a long-haired liberal so his appearance might not appeal to some, but his message is very real.  His stories of losing all of the vegetables on his farm due to climate change may resonate.  People like stories.  His are pretty grim.  He lost 30,000 leeks in one year.

    At 24 minutes he says, “there are literally hundreds of millions of farmers around the world shitting themselves because they don’t know what’s going to happen” with the climate & weather.  Then he mentions climate refugees and war,  sending your sons & daughters off to be slaughtered, and people dying from the wet bulb effect, just as the animals are dying.  (Gee, are we really worried about losing our jobs???)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_g3zoL8TFU

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  • Fri, Aug 30, 2019 - 5:26am

    #29
    robie robinson

    robie robinson

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    Posts: 881

    3+

    Would the last

    one to leave please turn out the lights.

    or

    “Whether we and our politicians know it or not, Nature is party to all our deals and decisions, and she has more votes, a longer memory, and a sterner sense of justice than we do.” Wendell Berry

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