• Blog
    Episode 015

    Vaccines Offer Better Outcomes…

    …but raise risk of immune escape
    by Chris Martenson

    Friday, July 16, 2021, 7:46 PM

Video Description

The very best immunity is natural immunity.  That comes to us from Israeli data which is complete enough to draw real conclusions from.  The vaccines offer varying degrees of protection from hospitalization and death that are much improved as compared to the unvaccinated in the over 50 crowd.  Under 50?  The data is less clear but the good news is that there really aren’t any hospitalizations or deaths involved.  The numbers are so small as to be best rounded down to zero.

So the good news is that the Delta variant is stacking up to be far less deadly than the prior variants.  The bad news is that
“immune escape” is really very much on the table. It hasn’t happened yet (that we know of) but the odds are stacking up in its favor as more and more vaccinated people are becoming infected with SARS2 despite being fully vaccinated.  Dr Geert Vanden Bossche’s hypothesis is now an ‘open secret’ as it is now part of the risk factors listed by the UK heath authorities.

Video





Audio

Links

Natural immunity is best immunity
Israeli & hospitalization data
Delta variant and Pfizer 3rd shot
Immune escape in point #9 of this:
Crappy, crappy organization with a website
Related content
» More

104 Comments

  • Fri, Jul 16, 2021 - 9:34pm

    #1
    Cecilia

    Cecilia

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    2

    Natural immunity for how long?

    Important question - after infection, natural immunity for how long? Seams strange to even mention it if the timeframe is unknown?
    a week, 2 months, 1 year?

     

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  • Fri, Jul 16, 2021 - 9:56pm

    #2
    wotthecurtains

    wotthecurtains

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    15

    Biden says federal employees don't need the vaccine

    Federal Employees Don’t Have to Get Vaccinated Before In-Person Work, Biden Admin. Says

     

    What to make of this?    Cynically ensuring the govt stays functional on the off chance of prion apocolypse?    Not wanting important people to quit?

     

     

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  • Fri, Jul 16, 2021 - 10:02pm

    stealyourface

    stealyourface

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    stealyourface said:

    I don't think we really completely know but.......

    "While antibody levels in the blood of people who had previous infections did drop quickly in the first few months before mostly leveling off, some antibodies were detectable even 11 months after infection. Researchers also found antibody-producing cells specifically targeting SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, in 15 of the bone marrow samples. The cells were also found in all five of the follow-up samples given four months later. "

    "Last fall, there were reports that antibodies wane quickly after infection with the virus that causes COVID-19, and mainstream media interpreted that to mean that immunity was not long-lived," Ali Ellebedy, PhD., an associate professor of pathology and immunology of medicine and of molecular microbiology, and senior author said in a news release. "But that’s a misinterpretation of the data. It’s normal for antibody levels to go down after acute infection, but they don’t go down to zero; they plateau. Here, we found antibody-producing cells in people 11 months after first symptoms. These cells will live and produce antibodies for the rest of people’s lives. That’s strong evidence for long-lasting immunity."

    https://www.foxnews.com/health/mild-coronavirus-infection-lasting-antibody-protection-research

     

    I'll take the natural,,, more complete immuntiy via nature

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  • Fri, Jul 16, 2021 - 10:40pm

    #4

    Arthur Robey

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    6

    Pause to consolidate.

    As per usual, the data rate is too high for someone who thinks intuitively.

    When this virus first raised it's head, I ran around with my hair on fire. "This is it!", I thought. "This is what Dr. David Jacob's Hubrids called The Change".

    They are very protective of what they call "The New". (The new species). They are very proud of them. The New have a prized Human component in their makeup.

    What? A prized human component? From the Ape? What could we really offer?

    Now I get it. They had anticipated that everybody would go rushing off in fear to Muster Points to get their dose of whatever is in the vial; because that is what they would have done.

    But we didn't. Only a certain percentage complied. And that there fact is our contribution. We think differently. That attribute is what they harvested.

    However, their plan that they are dedicated to, calls for control of our institutions, and that they excel at.

    This is a clear RICO (Racketeering) case. In the old days our immune systems, (CIA, NSA, MIC etc) would have been all over this criminal activity. There would be collateral damage, so fierce would their response be.

    But nothing. Nada. Our defences have been put to sleep. And who could possibly do that? Do I have to spell it out?

    Source: https://odysee.com/@FwapUK:1/A-manufactured-illusion.-Dr-David-Martin-with-Reiner-Fuellmich-9_7_21_-720p:5

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  • Fri, Jul 16, 2021 - 10:50pm

    Joegrane

    Joegrane

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    9

    Natural Immunity Data Looks Really Good

    [ UK Reinfection Study ] https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n99 Of 11,000 healthcare workers who had proved evidence of infection during the first wave of the pandemic in the UK ... none had symptomatic reinfection in the second wave

    There was a similar study with similar results at the Cleveland clinic.

    Check out this article with an abundance of references.

    Natural immunity vs Covid-19 vaccine-induced immunity – Marc Girardot of PANDA

    The following are a few excerpts--check the article for the references

    survivors of the Spanish Flu epidemic were tested for their immunity to the 1918 influenza virus 90 years after, and still demonstrated immunity;

    people recovered from the 2003 SARS infection demonstrated robust T-Cell responses seventeen years later;

    the wide-spread prevalence of high cross-immunity – gained from past common cold infections – further demonstrates the resilience of natural immunity for coronaviruses.

    symptomatic reinfections are very rare.

    by multiple studies, so far variants have not escaped acquired immunity. Just as Americans can speak and interact seamlessly in England, unhindered by a few word variants, natural ...immunity is unhindered by variants

    Recent research confirms this logic. One comparative study in Israel found the protection from severe disease to be 96·4% for Covid-19 recovered individuals but 94.4% for vaccinated ones,

     

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  • Sat, Jul 17, 2021 - 12:07am

    #6

    Arthur Robey

    Status: Platinum Member

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    2

    Ideological rigidity and other topics.

    What is Ideological rigidity but binary thinking? "You're either for us or against us."

    "You are either good or bad."

    "You're either left or right."

    As Assman has noted in his book "The Price of Monotheism" this is a gift of Abrahamic monotheism.

    Read "The Saga of Eric the Red and Lief Erikson" for a taste of how our ancestors used to think.

    Our thinking is crippled by "binaryism (tm)". Where life is a rich tapestry, our models have been impoverished with binaryism.

    This old man is going to rely on his ignorance to continue to breath. If old people are struck down and Glutathione is absent in old people, then I shall make a wild leap of faith and presume causation.

    If I'm wrong, well I hope my next body is as magnificent as the one I was given 70 years ago.

    I might even get one of they new "Hubrid" ones. Now That would be interesting.

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  • Sat, Jul 17, 2021 - 12:16am

    lyonssf

    lyonssf

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    Surprised

    I am sure surprised to see that.  Not what I expected.  They seem real anxious to jab the military and I thought it would be the same with other federal employees.  Maybe they thing a significant of chunk of people would not go along and it would be too disruptive?  I have heard that unlike the military and even the private sector, the federal civilian work force is on stronger legal ground to contest mandatory vaccinations.  Maybe that has something to do with it.

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  • Sat, Jul 17, 2021 - 12:47am

    lyonssf

    lyonssf

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    COVID-19 drug remdesivir may prolong hospital stay, researchers claim

    https://www.foxnews.com/health/covid-19-drug-remdesivir-may-prolong-hospital-stay-researchers-claim

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  • Sat, Jul 17, 2021 - 1:09am

    lyonssf

    lyonssf

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    4

    COVID-19 Case Data in Israel: A Troubling Trend?

    Last one of the night and then I will shut up.

    Now this is what I call an interesting article.

    COVID-19 Case Data in Israel: A Troubling Trend? (trialsitenews.com)

     

     

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  • Sat, Jul 17, 2021 - 1:17am

    #10
    nordicjack

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    herd immunity

    A lot of the focus is on the belief that we reach some sort of herd immunity with vaccinating.  It is pretty clear, that these vaccines, at best, protect you from a risk of severe illness. ( may be moot for most healthy people and young people )  they seem to do little or nothing from preventing spread.  If so, herd immunity is not really obtainable.  Oddly enough, the evidence seems to suggest the best course to herd immunity is through natural infection.  Perhaps, this is a nothing burger.  The only thing that makes this different than a flu or common cold ( both which can kill )  is that instead of 8-15% of the population being susceptible in a given year, maybe 70-80% are.   So, as Dr Martenson likes to say,  if I were in charge,  I'd concentrate not on vaccination, but slowing how many get sick at one time, and collect data like crazy and develop protocols that can be modeled for future epidemics to find therapeutics.  Vaccinating your way out every pathogen is not the way to competent immunity.  And seems to be rather risky vs natural infection for most people and most pathogens we currently vaccinate for.

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  • Sat, Jul 17, 2021 - 1:50am

    lyonssf

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    Federal Employee Vax

    A friend of mine theorized that they are not pushing federal employees to do mandatory vaccination because vaccination rates are relatively low among minority federal employees and that they do not wan to pick a fight with those employees who are an important part of the Democrat coalition.  Think Tuskegee experiment stigma.

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  • Sat, Jul 17, 2021 - 2:05am

    #12

    Arthur Robey

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    Putting it out there.

    The Aliens are notorious for putting implants into their abductees. I'm going with this is an attempt to implant Everybody.

    Since when are vaccines magnetic?

    What do these carbon fragments do? Cross the blood-brain barrier, for starters. And then what?

    Hey! How would I know? I'm not an alien.

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  • Sat, Jul 17, 2021 - 3:07am

    #13
    srbs73

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    Protection after vaccination and then exposure to the virus

    Is there any data on the level of protection after taking the vaccine and then catching the virus? i.e. you are more likely to avoid hospitalisation and death from the vaccine, but then get the benefits from catching the virus.

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  • Sat, Jul 17, 2021 - 3:18am

    lyonssf

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    Herd Immunity

    There was an Op-Ed in the Washington Post yesterday by a John Hopkins professor that said that 85% of the U.S. population has immunity to SARS-CoV-2.  I also saw a UK report from last month that said that 88% of the UK population has antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 (we are talking natural and from the vaccines).  If so, then where is the herd immunity? First, herd immunity does not mean the virus goes away, but just that it is contained and you do not have big explosions in cases.  So, basically, the UK an U.S. have had herd immunity, but now that the Delta variant has emerged cases are going back up for two reasons.  Delta is more infectious and it has some resistance to previous immunity in the population gained from infections by other versions of SARS-CoV-2 and from vaccinations.  So, cases are going back up in the U.K., the U.S. and Israel (as well as other places).  Eventually, Delta will hit a wall (herd immunity) at some point (from antibodies from infections or updated booster shots) and the cases will collapse back down until another variant comes along and repeats the process. See how cases in India collapsed involving Delta (Ivermectin and an immunity build up in the population are responsible). Yet another article, featured various medical experts saying that there is zero chance that this virus is going away ever.  They were essentially admitting that you cannot vaccinate this virus away (probably because it does not stop infection, replication, and transmission).  Basically it will be endemic and another circulating coronavirus that we simply have to deal with.  I think there is the idea in the American population (placed there by propaganda) that all that we have to do is achieve herd immunity and the virus will be permanently quashed and we can go back to be normal again.  This dream is not going to happen.  However, if the virus continues to evolve as viruses normally do, then it will become steadily more transmissible and less lethal.  It might end up as another common cold virus and then people will largely forget about it and ignore it.  That scenario is realistic provided the vaccinating in the middle of a pandemic thing does not go sideways as some experts have warned.

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  • Sat, Jul 17, 2021 - 7:05am

    DaveDD

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    Maybe someone can help me understand the graph?

    Hi All,

    I looked at the underlying data (link).  The table can be reproduced, but I do not understand the graph that Chris showed, see below.

    The data however shows that there are ~6x more cases among the vaxxed.  Doing some math, shows that there is no significant difference between the vaxxed and unvaxxed in terms of case count. In other words, the vaxxination does not prevent people from becoming infected at all, not even a reduction is to be seen... Btw, what is unclear to me is if the ultra-orthodox jews and Arab population  are overrepresented in the unvaxxed, this group is known to be more vitamin D deficient (link, link, link), and less likely to take the vaxxine. These groups comprise ~28% of the population.

    1. In the graph there is no difference in number of cases between the vaxxed and unvaxxed.  How can this be? Is the data somehow normalized, or is this for the Delta variant only?
    2. If the cases data is somehow normalized, is this then also the case for the hospitalization data?
    3. The case graph is clearly cumulative, but why does it start at ~0 cases on the 14th of June? The data shows that there were hundreds of cases? Does it show only Delta cases?
    4. The outcome for ultra-orthodox Jews and Arabs Israelis is typically worse (higher CFR), what would correction for this bias mean for the CFR?

    Do any of you have more background data?

    Edit: CFR should be “hospitalization”

    _____________________________________

     

     

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  • Sat, Jul 17, 2021 - 7:59am

    Kathy

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    Eradicate or Not?

    The only thing that makes this different than a flu or common cold ( both which can kill )  is that instead of 8-15% of the population being susceptible in a given year, maybe 70-80% are.

    I’ve thought of this as well.  What does the introduction of a new common cold look like since most have no natural immunity?  And then part of maintaining natural immunity is the importance of bumping back into it regularly.

    I’ve contemplated this with chicken pox and shingles.   You’d get chickenpox at 8 when it was easy to recover, then you’d remount an immune response in your teens when you were babysitting, again when your kids had it and then your grandkids.  Are we seeing a jump in shingles because we have taken chickenpox out of the herd through vaccines?

    Do we want to eradicate Covid or would it be better to let the snot nosed kids keep reinfecting us?

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  • Sat, Jul 17, 2021 - 8:53am

    #17
    SDHodges

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    SDHodges said:

    Another excellent video from Chris as always.  My frustration throughout this sorry saga has been the quality of data and information.  We see the figures from the UK and Israel but when you look at the UAE it doesn't add up.  The UAE has vaccinated more people than any other country yet it doesn't appear to have had much of an effect in terms of infections, although they always had a low mortality rate.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/united-arab-emirates/

    Given the numbers, scientifically all things should be equal but they are not.  For me this leaves more questions than answers.  I believe the UAE was using four vaccines including the Chinese Sinovac, but surely that doesn't account for the difference in infection profiles between countries relative to vaccinations?  All in all it just makes me mistrust the data from everyone as we all know there are big financial interests in distorting it.

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  • Sat, Jul 17, 2021 - 9:43am

    #18
    Jay Pine

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    Vaccines were always going to be 'leaky'

    As far as I can tell, it was always known by most scientists in vaccine development that any intramuscular vaccine was unlikely to produce a strong mucosal antibody response (IgA) i.e. the ones that protect the nose and the throat, the very areas Sars CoV-2 attacks first after being breathed in. From a Nature article last September:

    " ... it is important to note that natural infection induces both mucosal antibody responses (secretory immunoglobulin A (IgA)) and systemic antibody responses (IgG). The upper respiratory tract is thought to be mainly protected by secretory IgA, whereas the lower respiratory tract is thought to be mainly protected by IgG27,28,29. Vaccines that are administered intramuscularly or intradermally induce mainly IgG, and no secretory IgA30. It is therefore possible that most vaccines currently in development induce disease-preventing or disease-attenuating immunity, but not necessarily sterilizing immunity ..."

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2798-3?fbclid=IwAR2NUV7ViOS8PBmCmofqoj3zd-8NFA0xrEVkwNZfvKdJ2JeazkUzJ4wx-wQ

    To update this a little bit, the antibodies that it would be really useful for any vaccine to produce look to be dimeric IgA ones. The current crop don't really produce these, hence Delta is easily caught and transmitted by vaccinated and unvaccinated alike, whatever anyone would want you to believe. More here:

    https://stm.sciencemag.org/content/13/577/eabf1555.full?fbclid=IwAR11rzAJko6Me2afZMKny6yIMU-wEdJS7QDfQV30agJb-RPViozA95XrOL4

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  • Sat, Jul 17, 2021 - 10:05am

    #19
    Pondscum

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    Dr David Martin video shows alarming heart damage caused by "vaccine."

    My hope is that Chris will comment on the following video. https://www.bitchute.com/video/PqakhKZ5cJoC/

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  • Sat, Jul 17, 2021 - 10:58am

    #20
    yagasjai

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    It's A Set Up: Being Cut Off From What We Need

    I watched this video last night and woke up thinking about how it is that collectivism would be on the other side of integrity, not on the same side. Authoritarianism, I get. Rigidity, dogma, I get. But collectivism? That one made me go "hmmm..." Maybe part of it is a semantics issue, that Chris means something other than what I am thinking. But setting that aside for a moment. The thing I keep noticing is that over and over again there is a way we end up being at odds with or cut off from the thing we actually need.

    I see it in relation to the pandemic. What we need is a way to counteract the devastation of the disease in our lives and society as a whole. Yet the vaccines are adulterated, a risky strategy, whether you know it or not. And the actual treatments are denied. Either way we are cut off from what we need.

    I also notice it in relation to climate change. What we need is real leadership to use the time, and more importantly the energy, we have left to transition to *some* other way of living in the world that is more in line with the balance of nature. Yet the "Great Reset" comes with these authoritarian overtones, along with a denial of the energy predicament, and again we can't just accept it at face value. Even Chris is like, "I agree with the definition of the predicament, but NOT with the HOW..." We are cut off from what we need.

    Once is an accident, twice....

    And now this. Collectivism is at odds with integrity. How can that be? Especially when, in all the years I've been following Chris, I've seen him offer real leadership around stepping outside of our stereotyped roles (especially the ones that perpetuate the infinite growth on a finite planet model) and band together, across all different stripes/spots/zigzags/whatever so that we can actually help each other. Because it looks to me like Chris is going gangbusters in the direction that no one person is going to survive in isolation. He's trying to build a village. Helping your neighbor. Interdependence. That's how nature works. How can that be at odds with integrity, except for enemy action?

    Looks to me like the very thing we need, in countless ways, is being perverted and distorted so that we are cut off from what we need. It's a set-up. And we don't have any hope of changing that dynamic it unless we can recognize it in action.

    One other thought to throw out here, and I am drawing on both my background in social science and also folks like Charles Eisenstein, but force and control got us into this mess, so more force and control (the "Great Reset") cannot possibly get us out. The idea of dominion over nature. Domination. To me, that is the opposite of integrity. Because it is the story of separation. And all we do to find our place in the whole, to tend the land where we live, foster the bees, and to re-integrate ourselves into community and into nature is acting against the entrenched idea of domination/separation.

    The seeds of its own destruction are built into that system. We are watching it play out. There isn't enough energy or resources to sustain perpetual growth of a debt-based system. The old way is crumbling while some are building the new, or are returning to the ancient understanding that preceded the force/control/domination mindset. Whether you call it building resilience or call it de-colonization (as some on the left would), you might actually be talking about the same thing. The linear thinking is part of the domination/separation mindset anyway, in reality those two ends of the spectrum bend around and meet on the other side. Kind of like a medicine wheel is round, with all things being in relation to all else, nothing above or below anything or anyone else, or for that matter, left or right.

     

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  • Sat, Jul 17, 2021 - 11:25am

    #21
    Dontknownothin

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    Evidence of thorough testing?

    Overall, I'm still not seeing or hearing that anyone is thoroughly testing everyone who gets vaccinated. Israel might be, but is this out of procedure, or problems? If the jab reduces symptoms, then there will be less inclination to go to the hospital. So if the question that's asked when a patient arrives at the hospital is: " have you been vaccinated?" If so go to the no-swab line, if not go to the swab line, then we're not seeing the true picture of what's happening and based on that alone, the numbers will always skew toward unvaccinated being at greater risk. If these are the people presenting for COVID like symptoms and they are swabbed then that's a different story.

    Looking at the graph out of israel though, the unvaccinated have stayed fairly consistent growing geometrically rather than the exponential growth the vaccinated are demonstrating. While vaccine efficacy declines at what seems like the 3 month mark, the number of vaccinated falling ill rises at rates much higher than the unvaccinated. Effectiveness may be confering 9 times the protection of base immunity initially, but Dr VB's scenario is playing out very clearly here which leads to a collapse in immunity. Every four months people are going to be clamoring for a new booster. And just like your neighborhood black market pharmacist, the first dose is free, then you pay. I think we've created a generation of vax junkies.

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  • Sat, Jul 17, 2021 - 11:56am

    brushhog

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    Collectivism has killed more people than cancer

    And now this. Collectivism is at odds with integrity. How can that be?

    Really? What strange statement. Collectivism is the most atrocious, murderous, and anti-human ideology ever to plague humanity. Are you aware of how many people were killed to install communist [ i.e collectivist ] regimes around the world? Estimates exceed 100 million human lives. It is estimated that Mao alone killed 50 million human beings in order to install his communist reign. Stalin killed more.

    Communism makes Nazism look tame. More horror, heartbreak, and abominations have been committed by those espousing "collectivism" than any other institution ever conceived of by man. Its an ideology that denies the individual, and hence the human being's existence and dignity. We do not exist as a collective, we exist as individuals and to deny that is to deny our very existence...and once accomplished, we can be disposed of in any way desired by those in charge of the 'collective'.

    "Socialism is the doctrine that man has no right to exist for his own sake, that his life and his work do not belong to him, but belong to society, that the only justification of his existence is his service to society, and that society may dispose of him in any way it pleases for the sake of whatever it deems to be its own tribal, collective good." - Ayn Rand

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  • Sat, Jul 17, 2021 - 12:14pm

    #23
    Helix

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    Helix said:

    Chris mentioned that the CFR tends to double with each 7 years of age.  But why is this?  It is well-known that poor outcomes are associated with co-morbidities, but no co-morbidity data is shown.  It is also a crude observation that people tend to accumulate co-morbidities as they age.  It would be very helpful indeed to see a breakdown of outcomes by co-morbidity as well as by age.

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  • Sat, Jul 17, 2021 - 12:52pm

    Elina

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    Elina said:

    To me, the most important take away from the graph is that those who get COVID but who are not vaccinated are far less likely to end up hospitalized, per that bottom nearly horizontal line.

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  • Sat, Jul 17, 2021 - 1:21pm

    yagasjai

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    Collectivism/ Communism/ Something Else?

    I may be fishing for another word that we don't quite have on the tip of our tongues yet, but if Chris isn't building a collective on his farm, then what is he doing? Similarly, if Joel Salatin isn't serving the greater good (of mankind), what is he serving?

    I am not arguing in favor of authoritarianism. As I said, more control/force/domination won't get us out of the mess because that's what got us into this mess. But there's a nuance I'm attempting to illuminate and examine. If Chris is aiming to build a village (not going it alone), how can the collective be on the other side of integrity (except for enemy action- meaning that what is natural, for people to depend on one another, humans have survived for millenia in tribes and clans, is being distorted in such a way as to cut us off from it)?

    This is an honest question. Something I am attempting to understand.

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  • Sat, Jul 17, 2021 - 1:38pm

    DaveDD

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    DaveDD said:

    Hi Helix,

    In an earlier video, Chris discussed the one most important predictor a fatal COVID-19 outome: age. I forgot in which one this was mentioned. Hope this helps.

    Take care, Dave

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  • Sat, Jul 17, 2021 - 2:37pm

    #27

    Quercus bicolor

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    Collectivism and scale

    The obvious cases of the USSR and China show that collectivism applied at a scale too large for everyone to know everyone else ends up being maintained through force and coercion.

    Collectivism of a sort applied at a Dunbar number scale with a carefully selected group of people who have the skills required to live in community is something else entirely.  First of all, it is not entirely collective.  There can be a large degree of mutual support and freedom with clearly defined boundaries between the community and private portions of ones life.  Second, with a common interest and investment in each other as well as a significant relationship with each and every person, people will be more inclined to work towards the common good.

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  • Sat, Jul 17, 2021 - 2:57pm

    brushhog

    brushhog

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    7

    Collectivism

    I guess you'd have to draw a distinction between voluntary communal efforts and a collectivist/communist/socialist government structure. I think the term "collectivism" implies the latter. It seems to refer to an outlook wherein humanity is lumped into a collective, or regarded as a single 'thing'.

    Its as true today as it was in Adam Smith's day that society runs on individuals pursuing their separate interests. His famous quote ;

    "It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self-interest."

    So, on the one hand you have voluntary cooperation fueled by self interest. On the other you have a failed political ideology that denies human nature and attempts to replace it with government mandates, violence, and coercion

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  • Sat, Jul 17, 2021 - 3:10pm

    #29

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1443

    17

    Vaccine failure/immune escape most obvious in the places most vaccinated: Gibraltar

    Remember when we were arguing in Jan. about whether the Gibralter jab-fest was or was not the proximate cause of the Covid-19 case wave that followed?  Well, regardless, we know there is a period of immune suppression/increase vulnerability in the two weeks after jab #1.  Now though, the most highly (and early) vaccinated countries become our petri dish to visualize the failure of these over-specific spike protein antibody-inducing vaccines...

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  • Sat, Jul 17, 2021 - 3:26pm

    #30
    Grover

    Grover

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    Joined: Feb 15 2011

    Posts: 999

    16

    Modern Proselytizing

    [Good morning, sir ...]

    [Have you accepted Dr. Fauci as your lord and savior?]

    Is this what Biden's "knock and talk" will look like?

    Grover

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  • Sat, Jul 17, 2021 - 4:21pm

    Chuck in Belize

    Chuck in Belize

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    Joined: May 23 2020

    Posts: 222

    18

    Collectivism

    My personal definition of Collectivism is the idea that the individual is secondary to the society of which that individual is a member.  It is the idea that a group of people is somehow greater than the totality of the individuals which comprise the group.

    In practice, it can work on a small scale, but even then only when externally-imposed changes or disruptions do not occur.  Many small enclaves and communes can be effective and beneficial to the members, at least for a time, under existing circumstances.

    The issue becomes completely different once it becomes involuntary on the part of the members.  In other words, when you can "check in" but you can't "check out."

    Where does the concept of "government" stand in all of this ?

    As Ayn Rand pointed out, and many others after her, there is really only one feature distinguishing government from any other form of social organization, which is,
    government is granted (voluntarily, by the 'citizens' ?) a legal monopoly on the initiation of force.  In a 'governed' society, it is said that a person's right to self-defense as well as some of the other natural human rights are 'delegated' to the government for the purpose of exercising and enforcing those rights, rather than leaving it up to the individual to do so.

    As an example, a chapter of Lions Club may put together a project to help a local school build a playground, buy books, or add a computer lab.  What a Lions Club cannot do is use force to exact those funds from unwilling people.  Only the government can do that.

    Note that simply 'delegating' a right to a controlling body does not imply the loss of that inherent individual right.  It just means that a person allows the government to use its lawful power to exercise that right on the individual's behalf.

    Nowadays, one hears so much about things like the "right to an education," the "right to a job," the "right to medical care," the "right to a decent standard of living," the "right to equality" and so on and so on.  The list is seemingly endless.

    But as Ayn Rand so succinctly pointed out, there can be no such thing as a "Right" to something that only others can provide for you, because there cannot be such thing as the "right to enslave."

    A "Right" is about what an individual may do, not what others are obligated to do for that individual.

    Collectivism may be all well and good, so long as it is beneficial to those who choose to practice it.  Once it ceases to be voluntary, it is one of the most pernicious ideas ever conceived.

    In My Opinion.  Of course.

    But puh-LEEZE don't go confusing what Joel Salatin is doing on his farm with what Joseph Stalin did on his "collective" farms.

    Don't characterize what Chris M. is doing in gathering this Tribe as 'Collectivism.'

    That kind of thing just ain't going to wash.

    -- Chuck

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  • Sat, Jul 17, 2021 - 4:47pm

    #32
    Mysterymet

    Mysterymet

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    Joined: May 23 2020

    Posts: 277

    9

    Natural antibodies still going strong

    My natural antibodies are still detectable over a year later!

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  • Sat, Jul 17, 2021 - 5:58pm

    #33
    Grover

    Grover

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    8

    Five times as many children died of suicide than from Covid

    https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/five-times-more-children-committed-suicide-died-covid-19-during-lockdown-uk-study

    It was revealed in the study that only 25 children under the age of 18 died of COVID-19 from the start of the pandemic until the end of February 2021. Around 61 children in all died after testing positive, but in 36 cases it was found the virus “did not contribute to their death.”

    But during the same time period, there were 124 suicides among children and 268 deaths from trauma, the study authors found, while noting the virus is “rarely fatal” for children.

    Although this article was a little tangential to the main idea of this thread, it shows that Covid isn't a life-threatening issue for children. The idea of vaxxinating them goes contrary to scientific findings. Too bad big Pharma can't come up with a suicide vaccine they can patent and make big $$$ from. Of course, give the children play time along with adequate nutrition and security ... and suicide rates will plummet without big Pharma's magic bullets.

    Grover

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  • Sat, Jul 17, 2021 - 8:03pm

    #34
    kenwdelong

    kenwdelong

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    Joined: Dec 11 2018

    Posts: 35

    20

    Wikipedia

    Those of us who have been interested in "alternative" health (aka actual health) are familiar with the Wikipedia phenomenon. About 10  years ago Wikipedia became a narrative-management firm under the control of Big Pharma, deleting, ridiculing, and memory-holing any and all non-pharmaceutical therapies. The assumption is (dunno if it's proved) that Big Pharma pays unofficial salaries to Wikipedia editors, so they are essentially Pfizer employees.

    It's remarkable to me how many people rush to inject stuff from Pfizer into their bodies. Big Pharma have lost dozens of federal criminal cases and paid billions of dollars. What for? For lying about study data, for withholding knowledge of deadly side-effects, flaunting manufacturing rules - in short, for killing patients for money. Now the serial felons come out with a vaccine, with a press release saying how great it is (sorry you can't see the data, that's proprietary) and people line up to have it.

    Same with the FDA. Chris, you've noted how the Recovery Trial was a hit-piece designed to fail, and in fact they actually murdered some patients (with toxic overdoses). Again, this is common. Maybe they'll do a Vitamin D study where they give everyone 50 IU for 2 weeks.  See, Vitamin D doesn't work, you hippies. I have NEVER seen the FDA come down on the side of a natural, unpatented therapy, especially if there is a patented drug in the wings. Either NOTHING in the natural world has the slightest effect on our health, or they are irredeemably corrupt.

    Power tends to corrupt. Any centralized agency with authority will succumb to evil. It's not a question of "getting the right people in there". (I've been waiting 50 years now for the "right people" to "get in there" and "make things right". It's not going to happen. Ever.) The only answer is decentralization and a free market of ideas.

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  • Sat, Jul 17, 2021 - 8:16pm

    #35

    Arthur Robey

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 2067

    2

    Collectivism and the Divine Feminine.

    Atlantis gave us Freya as recorded by the Oera Linda.

    Because they were insular and immune to marauding, desperate masses of people they lived in peace and were able to amass great wealth.

    The outcome of this experiment was a Matriarchal society because the Feminine aspect is interested in People and the Masculine is interested on Things.

    Society was run by a virgin Overmother, selected by a stable cadre of Maidens who, through scandal and the threat of Ostracism kept order, educated children and tended the Old and sick.

    Excess population either became Maidens or were sent on Great Voyages of Discovery.

    When Atlantis sunk, the refugees washed up on the shores from the Atlas mountains (that name again) to Denmark.

    Their stable civilization collapsed as it was now beset by  Masculine armies. In the North they took refuge amongst the Ingvi who latter came to be called Saxons. (This missive is written in their language, Inglish)

    Is this not yet one more reason to abscond to the leGrange points so that we can once more live in islands of Peace?

    But how, you ask? The puzzle pieces form before our eyes. Artificial intelligence to build the islands and the breakdown of the Physics Thrall, which insists that Gravity is King. It is not. It is an imposter; neither a "Constant" nor the dominant force in the Cosmos.

    As the Whites have told us, there is no scarcity in the Cosmos. Look to Andromeda to see the veracity of that statement.





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  • Sat, Jul 17, 2021 - 9:03pm

    whiteycov19

    whiteycov19

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    0

    Poor data

    I think the hypothesis here is based on bad science: saying only 1% of new cases is from previously infected people is of no assistance when only 7% of the country have tested positive

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  • Sat, Jul 17, 2021 - 9:08pm

    whiteycov19

    whiteycov19

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    0

    whiteycov19 said:

    Statistics don’t work that way: Too small a population and they are coming off a very low base.

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  • Sun, Jul 18, 2021 - 12:03am

    #38
    ds24

    ds24

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    Joined: Dec 02 2010

    Posts: 37

    3

    Wikipedia: Home of corporate and government disinformation

    The Greyzone published a takedown of Wikipedia, going into depth about how U.S. government-related activists promoting regime change in Venezuela downgraded Wikipedia as an authoritative (i.e., toes the official status quo line) source. They report that corporations pay people to spend all day editing Wikipedia entries. That's how it became so horrible...

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  • Sun, Jul 18, 2021 - 1:50am

    Spork

    Spork

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    Joined: Apr 11 2020

    Posts: 34

    8

    Spork said:

    per wikipedia, there is of course the Philip Cross affair:

    The Philip Cross Affair

    Some sort of entity made dutiful edits every day for 5 years from 2013 to 2018, mostly supporting imperial aggression against Syria.

     

    "Because the purpose of the “Philip Cross” operation is systematically to attack and undermine the reputations of those who are prominent in challenging the dominant corporate and state media narrative. particularly in foreign affairs. “Philip Cross” also systematically seeks to burnish the reputations of mainstream media journalists and other figures who are particularly prominent in pushing neo-con propaganda and in promoting the interests of Israel."

    So, unfortunately, Wikipedia has been compromised and discredited on any subject that powerful interests care to intrude upon. Which means they may still be authoritative on backgammon boards or cephalopod sexuality, but any subject which has a strong money/power/propaganda valence they are not to be trusted, which is Sad.

    That sort of global distributed, collective, crowd sourced effort, that was one of the great possible achievements of our Age, destroyed and traduced by the sort of low-budget shiite hasbara operations our Neo-liberal overlords easily spin up from within their sad cubicle farms.

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  • Sun, Jul 18, 2021 - 2:50am

    tingbudong

    tingbudong

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    5

    Collectivism/Communism/Something Else

    I think the difference is choosing to be part of a smaller collective where you are part of the decision making process vs. being coerced into one big collective where you are silenced and decisions are made for you. What’s happening with the Great Reset and big tech is a Marxist Oligarchy.

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  • Sun, Jul 18, 2021 - 3:10am

    #41
    mkoos2021

    mkoos2021

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    Joined: Apr 01 2021

    Posts: 6

    1

    israeli report

    Every report assumes that one person is the same as another. There are many variables within age groups. I know under 50 more unhealthy than an 84 year old. I would like to see a report of what conditions and variables affect deaths, either vaccinated or unvaccinated. E.g. blood test results of vitamins and minerals, not even mentioning other conditions such as heart problems, blood pressure problems, diabetism etc. That would give us better results. I believe that by knowing we can treat the root problem, instead of categorizing people into age groups, thinking that people in the same age group are the same hence have those chances. .This type of report gives rise to scary regulations.

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  • Sun, Jul 18, 2021 - 3:48am

    DaveDD

    DaveDD

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    Joined: Sep 08 2019

    Posts: 318

    4

    DaveDD said:

    I used to sponsor Wikipedia every year, without thinking of it too much.

    Chris’s example, your post, but also this Wikipage about COVID-19 misinformation (link), is the final drop for me. I will now have to rethink my yearly contributions. There are many good editors, but indeed, also some nefarious ones.

    No thanks, but thanks!  Yet another choice to consider!

     

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  • Sun, Jul 18, 2021 - 3:53am

    lyonssf

    lyonssf

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    Joined: Mar 30 2011

    Posts: 34

    0

    Who killed the lab leak hypothesis?

    Thread by @alexandrosM on Thread Reader App – Thread Reader App

    Thread by @alexandrosM on Thread Reader App – Thread Reader App

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  • Sun, Jul 18, 2021 - 5:43am

    GarethWarren

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    1

    GarethWarren said:

    As a microchip engineer I work on silicon that is as small as 5mm, all requiring a complex pcb to run them.  If Aliens were able to put controls in vaccines then they would have a godlike technological advantage - imagine Alexander the great attacking a heavy machine gun platoon and multiply the difference by 1000000.

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  • Sun, Jul 18, 2021 - 5:52am

    #45
    GarethWarren

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    2

    GarethWarren said:

    Two comments, US testing is just 1/15th of UK (its collapsed since Biden admin took over), don't test - don't tell is back again.

    Second point is the first vaccine to be developed was Sputnik, it used to be deemed effective but now the data from Russia is really bad - whats going on there?

     

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  • Sun, Jul 18, 2021 - 7:41am

    #46
    Jay Pine

    Jay Pine

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    Joined: Feb 15 2020

    Posts: 33

    3

    Are vaccines that induce a 'rounded' antibody response possible?

    • Think we can all see the current crop of vaccines are not good at protecting the upper airway, even if this information was suppressed or a case of 'hope over experience' in order to 'get shots in arms'. Are there any next generation candidates that are being developed that address this issue? I have seen one or two, which mostly are going the nasal administration route. More information on all this here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8099545

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  • Sun, Jul 18, 2021 - 8:39am

    #47
    stuw

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    stuw said:

    Very Interesting interview worth watching.

    https://covidtruefacts.blogspot.com/2021/07/reiner-fuellmich-interviews-dr-david.html?m=1

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  • Sun, Jul 18, 2021 - 8:55am

    #48
    Richard Allen

    Richard Allen

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    Joined: Mar 16 2011

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    3

    Why the spikes in 'covid' cases in vaccinated areas vs unvaccinated areas?

    Not sure -- but maybe one of these?:

    1. They're not really covid cases -- they're adverse reactions to continuing in situ vaccine spike protein production in vaccinated people

    2. For those who already had covid (maybe a large % of people?), the vaccine wipes out acquired natural immunity, leaving a 'blank slate' for reinfection of the vaccinated population

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  • Sun, Jul 18, 2021 - 11:50am

    skywolf

    skywolf

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    1

    skywolf said:

    Or anticipating new data? This was v. interesting from a mainstream media source

    https://www.statnews.com/2021/07/12/covid-19-decline-preceded-vaccines-still-need-jabs-finish-the-job

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  • Sun, Jul 18, 2021 - 5:26pm

    #50

    000

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Dec 10 2013

    Posts: 412

    2

    Fasting for Resilience

    Go to 45:00 if your impatient, but the whole thing is amazing. Pencil and paper recommended.





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  • Sun, Jul 18, 2021 - 11:02pm

    jturbo68

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Aug 04 2009

    Posts: 269

    1

    Perhaps not as authoritation as we think?

    Maybe Masks weren't proposed for controlling liberty, as was suggested here for many months, until the mask mandated went away with the vaccine rollouts?

    Maybe they actually believe in the vaccines and also believe in personal choice about having to take them?

    could be that....

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  • Mon, Jul 19, 2021 - 7:41am

    brushhog

    brushhog

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    Joined: Oct 06 2015

    Posts: 627

    17

    Honest people dont lie

    If that were true they wouldnt have lied, censored information, and done everything in their power to prevent open discussion.

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  • Mon, Jul 19, 2021 - 9:58am

    jturbo68

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Aug 04 2009

    Posts: 269

    2

    Is it a Lie if you belive it?

    It may be that they just believe incorrect things.   In which case its not a lie, its just peoples and groups playing out a wrong belief.  For most, going all in on a private sector/ high tech solution is just what one does in capitalism.  This is a belief.  The correct situation may just be that this belief simply pays the bills handsomely and keeps them in good stead in their friend circles.

    And even when lies are told, it deemed that the end justifies the means.

    Over and over again, people, corps and govts start out with a error or small lie and then compound the issue into a tragic catastrophe by not coming clean and instead doubling down on the failure.

    I think that ignoring re-purposed drugs in favor of the all in vac strategy is one of those decisions that may look insane in the future should the vaccine have serious long term negatives.  It feels fairly clear to me that not pursuing HCQ and IVM early allowed this pandemic to get a permanent foothold into humanity.   In that regard these people made an enormous mistake and continue to this day to justify and double down on that decision.

    Maybe they have some understanding of their error, now.  However early on, I suspect they felt that it was the correct path.

    Should the vac escape, or have serious long term negatives, they will have further chances to double down on the error, or change course.   I feel they will continue to double down for as long as they can and hope for the best for themselves.

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  • Mon, Jul 19, 2021 - 10:53am

    brushhog

    brushhog

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    Seems like alot of acrobatics

    I hear what you are saying but your logic seems like going through alot of acrobatics to avoid acknowledging that they are simply lying. People with truthful, righteous motives dont censor, lie, and gaslight their audience.

    When Fauci stands up, after being wrong about every single assertion from day one, and says 'he doesnt understand why people dont trust the vaccine'....you have to acknowledge that he is lying. He's a smart guy, he knows damn well that he changed narratives every week, and he knows why that would cause people to distrust him. He's trying to gaslight the public into thinking they are crazy for questioning his credibility.

    People who have good intentions, who really believe in what they are doing dont do things like that. They dont shut down opposing voices, they dont go on propaganda campaigns, they dont quietly alter their previous reports, they dont lie. Only people who have something to hide do those things. Keep it simple, dont make excuses for them.

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  • Mon, Jul 19, 2021 - 11:14am

    Ision

    Ision

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    24

    Dr. Fauci is not trying to help you. Dr. Fauci is the one, who planned to HARM YOU!

    I would feel much  better about Dr. Fauci...if it was not HIM, who contracted to have the SARS COV 2 virus built by the UNC-Chapel Hill lab in 2002, using both the NIH and the NIAID, to do so.   The COVID19 causing pathogen was completely patented with 73 different, over-lapping, U.S. Patents...held by different companies you control...or shall purchase control of...after it receives the patent...in an attempt to make it very hard to notice by the medical underwriters, who monitor all such patents.

    Imagine you wish to patent a book...but do not wish anyone to be able to know the book exists.   So, you patent pages 1-12, then separately patent pages 12-30, and so on..until the entire genome is covered in several patents you control.   Then, you pay an extra fee to the Patent agency to keep your patents private and secret.

    Once you accomplish this, you then patent the TESTS for the pathogen...and prevent others from access to it.

    Then, you patent nucleotide sequences for the mRNA serums you are designing, which you falsely state are meant to combat the virus you made and own.

    Then you retain your patent owner companies, so they directly receive money from these patents, and split the profits these companies make with your other shareholders.

    Finally, you pretend NOT to know anything about these things...call the twenty year old virus NEW...and direct the panicking government bodies..there is no treatment for the disease you created and financed...so you can make money from the emergency approved mRNA serums.    Naturally, lying directly to Congress....to protect your hand in these things...

    No.  I do not think Dr. Fauci can be trusted, as HE IS A CRIMINAL, RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DEATH OF MILLIONS...BY DELIBERATE, CALCULATED, DESIGN...AND GUILTY OF CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY.

    Dr. Fauci should be  arrested, placed on trial, and executed.

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  • Mon, Jul 19, 2021 - 11:31am

    Ision

    Ision

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    Ision said:

    People...  Simply remember all the lies Dr. Fauci told, related to the origin and nature of the viral pathogen, in the beginning?   "Wet Markets"  "Bat Soup" "Natural Cross-Over From Animal Sources" ...and how he attacked the notion the virus was a product of a lab?

    This.  When he has always known the pathogen was HIS OWN creation...a totally artificial, chimera, virus, which the NIH took control of its patent, directly, in 2018!

    Fauci is a murderer.

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  • Mon, Jul 19, 2021 - 11:32am

    MarkM

    MarkM

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    Joined: Jul 22 2008

    Posts: 553

    11

    Ision for the win

    If you read enough, and dive deeply enough, you realize that none of this is by accident. Of course, that is just my opinion, but I am preparing accordingly.

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  • Mon, Jul 19, 2021 - 11:59am

    #58
    Kat43

    Kat43

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    9

    Wuhan lab was a diversion

    Thank you, Ision, that is an awesome summary of David Martin's patent discussion.

    My theory.  When TPTB could no longer pretend that Sars-Cov-2 is not engineered, they needed to implicate the Wuhan Lab as much as possible.  In the hope it would deflect or delay anyone looking more directly as US gate keepers.

    I'm not sure I understand what David Martin was saying about the Delta variant.  Was it just Variant-du-jour, and already part of a mix of endless variants, to keep up the fear factor?

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  • Mon, Jul 19, 2021 - 12:01pm

    #59
    Ision

    Ision

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    Ision said:

    Did you guys notice the FDA is so filled with corruption...its own DIRECTOR is calling for an official, Federal, investigation...of HER OWN AGENCY?

    Why?   Because  of her agency staff approving a new Alzheimer's drug, last month, which had not passed its required tests and trials for approval...and of the 11 approval experts, who were supposed to audit this drug...10 voted NO...while the 11th, abstained..as they could not figure out how to interpret the data submitted to them.

    But, people at the FDA approved this, as yet, untested..drug to be released to the public!   The Director wonders how this could be...and called for HELP!

    Let me suggest, since the mRNA serums all deliver trillions of pathogenic prion proteins to each person's brain..who had this serum injected into them..and, thereby, causing a sudden..and dramatic..increase in brain-wasting diseases, such as Alzheimer's and Lewys Body Dementia...within 2 to 4 years, getting this drug on the market NOW...making IT the ONLY specific drug available, which supposedly directly fights these diseases...would result in an explosion of money for the creating company.

    Besides, the completion of all the required trails, two of which were cancelled as being FUTILE, would take TOO LONG..for the window of time remaining before the onset of the anticipated wave of brain debilitating diseases manifests.

    The tests being skipped....have a duration of 5 years each...should the drug company need to prove efficiency and effectiveness of their product.

    NO matter...no need to conduct any further tests....the FDA, against its own policies, has already approved this drug for use...  Get in line.

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  • Mon, Jul 19, 2021 - 12:15pm

    #60

    Andy_in_Hawick

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2009

    Posts: 29

    10

    Patent data reveals the true game

    Dr David Martin, a patent lawyer, has been following the genetic manipulations for twenty years and presents a compelling case that the 'novel' coronavirus was essentially patented two decades ago. This recording of a Zoom conversation with Reiner Fuellmich takes us even deeper down the rabbit hole. It is well worth listening to in its entirety:

    https://www.bitchute.com/video/v9IcFa1NVyyg/

    … but there is a briefer extract of the main points here:

    https://rumble.com/vjy2x7-dr.-david-martin-theres-no-delta-variant-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-patente.html

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  • Mon, Jul 19, 2021 - 1:09pm

    Dontknownothin

    Dontknownothin

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    Dontknownothin said:

    That is a solid motive you've put together. Definitely a broad spectrum attack on our system going on and if that is the case, it would certainly suggest the FDA knew, and was complicit in facilitating the healthcare devastation of our country.

    If only we had given them full control over our healthcare system before...

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  • Mon, Jul 19, 2021 - 1:24pm

    #62

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1443

    6

    I hope that this is not predictive programming....

    Among other things, this article tells us that SARS-CoV2 is of natural, zoonotic origin.  God help us if they are playing with this monkey virus in the lab....

    China reports its first death of a human from rare Monkey B virus (yahoo.com)

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  • Mon, Jul 19, 2021 - 1:39pm

    BR549

    BR549

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    Posts: 1

    4

    Rare Monkey Pox virus confirmed in Texas...resident traveled from Nigeria

    From July 17, first case reported in Dallas, TX. https://www.theepochtimes.com/rare-monkeypox-virus-confirmed-in-texas-resident-traveling-from-nigeria_3905945.html

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  • Mon, Jul 19, 2021 - 2:01pm

    Ision

    Ision

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    7

    Ision said:

    BioWarfare labs are into EVERYTHING...   Just TRY and discover all the pathogens currently sitting in such labs...you cannot.

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  • Mon, Jul 19, 2021 - 2:25pm

    #65
    Ision

    Ision

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    Joined: Feb 07 2020

    Posts: 189

    13

    What Will They DO?

    Dr. Fauci is just one of many guilty persons, who are involved in this great crime.

    Because they are now being exposed…expect the NEXT STEP to save themselves from the pitchfork mob..to take place.

    The shutting down of the Internet.

    The instigation of a horrible, black swan, event..such as the onset of large scale war.

    The shutting down of the entire power grid…for years.

    I do not think they will just run and hide.

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  • Mon, Jul 19, 2021 - 2:27pm

    coh

    coh

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    coh said:

    BioWarfare labs are into EVERYTHING... Just TRY and discover all the pathogens currently sitting in such labs...you cannot.

    This is exactly why there was such a quick and effective effort to discredit the lab leak hypothesis last spring. They don't want us looking too closely at what they are playing with in those labs.

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  • Mon, Jul 19, 2021 - 3:32pm

    Blood red peony

    Blood red peony

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    Private Patent

    Ision

    Thank you for the great summary of Dr David Martin's video. It didn't occur to me when I watched the video but reading your summary made me wonder how Dr Martin could get hold of the patents if the agency had been given an extra fee to keep them secret. I know nothing about how patents work but it seems strange that Dr Martin got hold of them under such circumstances. Any thoughts on how this works, or did I miss an explanation in the video?

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  • Mon, Jul 19, 2021 - 3:38pm

    #68
    Kat43

    Kat43

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    Kat43 said:

    My guess is that it is the patent application that is confidential, not the approved patent.

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  • Mon, Jul 19, 2021 - 5:21pm

    Mots

    Mots

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    3

    natural infection is superior to vaccines for protection of young people

    Jay!
    Thank you very much for your posting with several references to leaky vaccines.
    Here is a summary picture from the first Nature reference, which explains why natural honey badger infection gives more complete protection and also more completely prevents viral spread from person to person:

    Fig. 2

    Recently I saw some research results that reported induced presence of both mucosal IgA as well as blood IgG antibodies several months after covid vaccination, so I think that this figure may over-emphasize the lack of mucosal protection by covid vaccines from the American racketeers.  By the way, (looking at the last picture above) why isnt there a spike protein based or killed virus based mucosal spray vaccine?  Such vaccine should not cause blood clots.  Doesnt work?

    Nevertheless, this may be the main reason why young people should be allowed to get this (what is for them) a minor cold and get proper immunity instead of taking the profit driven dangerous vaccine that provides poorer immunity, poorer ability to prevent transmission, and increased death and debilitation of young people.

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  • Mon, Jul 19, 2021 - 5:42pm

    Mots

    Mots

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    4

    when is a patent application open to the public

    Bloodred and Kat43:

    Patent applications are automatically published 18 months after their filing date.

    Exceptions:

    1. if the application is NOT filed in other countries, then the applicant can formally request non-publication.  This is very rare.

    2.  The US military scans all new applications for trigger words to see if they can use the technology to their advantage. If they find something useful (national security!!) then they STOP all prosecution and publication, leaving the applicant holding an empty bag.

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  • Mon, Jul 19, 2021 - 7:47pm

    #71

    Arthur Robey

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    Means and Motive, Ision

    But, people at the FDA approved this, as yet, untested..drug to be released to the public!   The Director wonders how this could be...and called for HELP!

    To effect such a crime requires the means to do it.

    I put before you the advantage that the manufactured humans have over us. From Dr. Jacob's book "Walking Among Us"

    Well, did you ask him—I don't want to put words in your mouth, of course—where he got this jersey? How did he get it?

    Yes. . . . He stole it. He went to a store and got it. He didn't sneak it out; he just picked it up and walked out of there and made sure that nobody had any objection to that. “Oh, that guy's taking the shirt. Well, that's all right because it's that guy. I don't know why it's all right because it's that guy, but I know it's all right.”

    Do you think he's going to go purloin one again?

    Yeah, we got one [at a store] when we got there [the stadium]. We went in and he tried on a hat and a jacket, and then just walked out with it. The girl smiled

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  • Mon, Jul 19, 2021 - 9:38pm

    #72
    brushhog

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    Fauci should have been removed

    The fact that the head of the NIH who had been calling the shots on this "pandemic" since day one has ANYTHING what-so-ever to do with the Wuhan lab and gain of function experiments is absolutely bizarre. His emails confirm that he has a close relationship with the guy who funded the lab which is completely unacceptable.

    He should have come clean about his involvement on day ONE, and the fact that the guy who funded the GOF testing in Wuhan was part of the WHO team that investigated the lab is a global outrage.

    This is why we can say with complete confidence that these people are corrupt, they know exactly what they are doing, and they cant be trusted.

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  • Mon, Jul 19, 2021 - 9:53pm

    jturbo68

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    Acrobatics

    Apologies,  I somehow switched gears to another topic in between my message the night before and the next morning.

    I am aware of the Fauchi Patent and Lab leak stuff and feel that is potentially quite damning.

    My original reply was related to Biden not forcing Federal workers to receive the Vac in order to work.   From what I can tell, Biden believes in the goodness of the vaccine and doesnt appear to want to force the vaccine or curtail liberty at a federal level.  He doesnt appear to be willing to modify  the states or private sector behavior either, though.

    In that regard I dont think he is in the loop on the mistakes made while he wasnt in government.  That may make sense as I doubt that Fauchi would incriminate himself around his pandemic crimes and seems to have gone it alone when hosting conference calls wit the Welcome Foundation.

    Found this interesting.





     

     

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  • Mon, Jul 19, 2021 - 10:12pm

    #74

    Arthur Robey

    Status: Platinum Member

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    Dogma! Attack!

    This is why we can say with complete confidence that these people are corrupt, they know exactly what they are doing, and they cant be trusted.

    The dogma here, Brushhog, is that it must be human and that it is corrupt.

    The balance of probabilities is slowly swinging enexorably away from both suppositions. How could the chaotic Humans produce such a coordinated worldwide fracas, (an emergent property of instantaneous communication, perhaps?)?

    And who put our defenses to sleep? Why are the NSA, CIA, MIC et al giving this a free pass?

    The manufactured humans said that their precious plan was about to be launched "soon". They called it "The Change".

    Look around you. Have things "Changed"?

    What else did they say?

    "Isn't that wonderful? "Soon we will all be together." " Soon everybody will know their place."

    And they made sure nobody else worked on their case.

    Psychiatrist Professor Dr. John Mack stepped in front of a drunk driver's car. He too was investigating UFOs.

    That's how they assassinate. (They probably had a new container body ready for him; a guess).

    They dealt with Dr. David Jacobs by degrading his memory. Now he sits in front of a TV with his wife.

     

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  • Tue, Jul 20, 2021 - 1:20am

    #75
    Canuckian

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    Reply to Private Patent

    Once a patent is granted, the content of the patent enters the public domain, no matter what its status might have been beforehand. In return for this, the invention is given protection for a period of time in the country of filing (e.g. 20 years).

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  • Tue, Jul 20, 2021 - 4:37am

    #76
    Shoeman

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    Shoeman said:

    Can anyone actually find the official link for the Israel data? I can't and it seems to just come from some blokes twitter. The URL in the image points nowhere. The last thing we need is to be posting things that some goofball made in his bedroom to get attention. Not saying this is that, but we need to be careful that all data is thoroughly checked and sourced or we are going to look like a bunch of melons.

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  • Tue, Jul 20, 2021 - 7:34am

    John Holmberg

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    Israel pauses Vaccinated Tourist entry- link

    https://www.garda.com/crisis24/news-alerts/494371/israel-authorities-postpone-the-entry-of-vaccinated-individual-tourists-until-at-least-aug-1-update-107

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  • Tue, Jul 20, 2021 - 7:42am

    Kathy

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    At least they recognize natural immunity

    I wonder how that works with a vaccine passport concept.

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  • Tue, Jul 20, 2021 - 9:30am

    Jay Pine

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    Jay Pine said:

    Thank you Mots.

    • I don't have any links to hand but it does seem protection of the upper respiratory tract is first to go after both vaccinated and natural infection. So this Delta iteration is most likely around for the long haul unless we can work on protecting that area effectively too. I'd say the way the medium term pans out really depends on the longer term safety on these first vaccines (if anything untoward shows itself there) plus how effective they are at preventing serious illness more than a couple of months after they're administered. And of course any movement with anti-virals has a part to play too as well as the whole politics of it all. Far from clear, unfortunately.

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  • Tue, Jul 20, 2021 - 10:04am

    Canuck21

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    protection of the upper respiratory tract

    Well unless someone breathes with their mouth open the easiest safest and cheapest way to do this is to use an anti-viral nasal spray. There are heaps. I use Betadine iota-carrageenan available in pharmacies but I have read that you can also make your own with a dilute solution of Betadine povidone-iodine, which would be far cheaper. sorry can't remember the exact dilution.  I have also read about nitric oxide as a nasal spray. One in Israel called Sanotize (developed by a Canadian company) and a heap of others. Some of these are mentioned on our permanent thread for prophylaxis which I wish could be pinned somewhere.

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  • Tue, Jul 20, 2021 - 12:30pm

    Jay Pine

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    Jay Pine said:

    Have some Boots saline 'seaweed' spray myself but does irritate my poor hay-fever affected nose after a few uses and then I block up at the moment. 🙁 Something as simple as gargling with salt water has been shown to have some anti viral effect too on the throat area - did link to a Scottish university study on that a while ago. All can help no doubt but not so sure to a reliably sterilizing level.

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  • Tue, Jul 20, 2021 - 6:24pm

    #82
    MariaDWhite

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    Let's get practical

    Coronavirus has been too politicised and, while I thoroughly enjoyed your early videos, I was disappointed when you started to go for some of the politically popular lines that could be dangerous. I remember that, just as the Kent variant was causing an increase of cases in the UK, you made a video saying that the increase of cases could be merely an effect of increased testing. I stopped watching your videos on coronavirus after that.

    Anyway, why don't you focus a little more on general preparations? I know you are a go-to person for many on coronavirus, and of course I would expect you to do these sort of videos. But I miss the more general practical preparation sort of stuff.

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  • Tue, Jul 20, 2021 - 7:44pm

    #83
    gkcjrrt

    gkcjrrt

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    CDC does not track all COVID breakthrough cases in vaccinated

    News to me - even though it's a couple of months old.

    Without this tracking, there can be no accurate stats on the breakdown of %vax vs % non-vax  who get COVID, so anybody who says it's only the un-vaxxed catching COVID - well now we know why!

    https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html

    As of May 1, 2021, CDC transitioned from monitoring all reported vaccine breakthrough cases to focus on identifying and investigating only hospitalized or fatal cases due to any cause. This shift will help maximize the quality of the data collected on cases of greatest clinical and public health importance

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  • Tue, Jul 20, 2021 - 11:30pm

    #84
    Earthiest

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    VigiAccess Database - Dr. Tess Lawrie

    I was listening to an interview with Dr. Tess Lawrie on her analysis of the yellow card (adverse effects database in UK) data on the vaccines. During the interview, she mentioned the VigiAccess Database where individuals can look at different medicines for themselves and make up their own minds about what makes sense for them.

    She brought it up when asked if Ivermectin was dangerous. Here is what I found on the database:

    Ivermectin: total adverse reactions reported: 5505 since 1992, total deaths reported: 20

    COVID-19 vaccines: total adverse reactions reported: 1490915 since 2020, total deaths reported: 8532

    According to a google search: 3.7 billion doses of covid-19 vaccines have been administered worldwide.

    According to a google search: it's impossible to find how many doses of ivermectin have been administered worldwide. Thanks to FLCCC, I know that is more that 4 billion.

    So, yeah, ivermectin is what I should be afraid of. But seriously, if you've never seen this database, check it out. Deaths are listed under "general disorders ...". There is a ton of data though, including events reported by age group.

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  • Wed, Jul 21, 2021 - 2:37pm

    #85
    yagasjai

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    RCT That Shows IVM NOT Effective at Preventing Hospitalization?!

    I am part of an organization in which I am encouraging people to use IVM. One of the leaders of the organization just sent me this link, to an RCT out of Argentina, that concludes that IVM has no effect on hospitalization. I will be directing her to the meta-analysis (again) but would like to know if anyone else has seen this and if so, how you would respond? i.e. was it a study designed to fail? Or did they administer IVM too late in the process to see a difference (4 days)? I am in the middle of my work day so don't have a huge amount of time to dig into it, and would appreciate it if anyone else has any insight to offer.

    https://bmcinfectdis.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12879-021-06348-5

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  • Wed, Jul 21, 2021 - 3:18pm

    Mike from Jersey

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    Replying to RCT That Shows IVM NOT Effective at Preventing Hospitalization?! (#85)

    Two thoughts on that.

    First, I have been concerned that at least three members of this site have reported that Ivermectin did not protect them from hospitalization. That was worrisome. On the other hand, as Peter McCullough notes, this disease requires more than just one drug. If you are in lousy shape, vitamin d3 deficient, overweight and so on - IVM may not protect you. Moreover, even if you are not deficient as noted above - IVM is not a guarantee against adverse results. That is just the way it is.

    Two, one has to remember that we are the days of "heavily politicized science." You have to be extremely cautious in deciding what you believe and disbelieve. You really can't even fully trust the Lancet anymore.

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  • Wed, Jul 21, 2021 - 3:24pm

    #87

    SagerXX

    Status: Gold Member

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    Re: IVM study in Argentina

    I didn't read the link, but 4 days is kind of late in the process.  For optimal results you start IVM day 1 or 2.  The longer one waits, the bigger the head start the virus has to multiply, the worse the general outcome is for the patient.

     

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  • Wed, Jul 21, 2021 - 3:42pm

    Robin

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    Robin said:

    The first thing I noticed is that they only administered IVM for only two days, and the FLCCC protocol is for five days, or until covered so they may not have had a long enough duration of treatment.  They also don't list the dosage, which FLCCC has increased in areas with variants, if patient doesn't respond, or comorbidities.

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  • Wed, Jul 21, 2021 - 4:04pm

    #89

    Jim H

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    The painful irony of the propagandized....

    This is a sad tale of our times.  This guy called people like me an idiot, simply because he didn't realize that he was the subject of propaganda.  That's bad enough, but then he died from his inability to make a fully educated risk vs. reward decision on the mRNA vaccines, not realizing their dangers, nor the (safe) prophylactic alternatives.

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  • Wed, Jul 21, 2021 - 4:08pm

    Kathy

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    Kathy said:

    I agree with Robin.  They should have given it for five days, not two.
    This is an older study and while not significant, the IVM patients did better than the placebo patients and since February (the end of this study) the FLCCC has learned a lot.

    And then we go back to the risk vs. reward.  What about this IVM study would make someone not try IVM?  How many times have you taken (or been advised to use off label) Tylenol to see if it will relieve your symptoms?  Tylenol is a lot more dangerous than IVM and as far as I know there is no RCT for the use of Tylenol in Covid patients.  Why isn’t Tylenol being blocked like IVM?

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  • Wed, Jul 21, 2021 - 4:12pm

    Mike from Jersey

    Mike from Jersey

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    Replying to The painful irony of the propagandized.... (#89

    This is from his Gofundme profile:

    Jordan Dale Hayes, age 33, died at Mt. Sinai Hospital in New York City. Less than a week before his death, Jordan went to the ER with chest pains. What was found to be a small heart attack quickly led to two open heart surgeries. Complications arose and Jordan suffered multiple catastrophic strokes that ultimately proved to be too much for his body to overcome.

    He was 33 years old and died from a heart attack and multiple strokes.

    This is why rollbacks of vaccine mandates will not be enough.

    There have to be trials of those responsible.

    And that includes members of the media.

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  • Wed, Jul 21, 2021 - 4:14pm

    Phred

    Phred

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    Phred said:

    And is the IVM from a verified source? If I were an evil big pharma tick I could come up with ways to introduce failure.

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  • Wed, Jul 21, 2021 - 4:32pm

    DennisC

    DennisC

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    My guess is, it ultimately won't matter (i.e. what's the point?)

    After reading the Garda link in John Holmberg's post, I found this paragraph (emphasis added):

    Israelis returning from abroad are required to quarantine at home in accordance with instructions from the Health Ministry; individuals who have been vaccinated against COVID-19 or who have recovered from the disease are exempt from the quarantine requirement, provided they test negative for the disease.

    The vaccines are so effective we still want to test everyone (and hopefully, dear traveler, you had the "right" vaccine).

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  • Wed, Jul 21, 2021 - 4:42pm

    Dontknownothin

    Dontknownothin

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    5500 vax dead of 5.5 million.

    The vaccine has officially killed .1% of Scotland's population.

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  • Wed, Jul 21, 2021 - 4:44pm

    #95
    mikies123

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    RCT That Shows IVM NOT Effective at Preventing Hospitalization

    I was surprised by the results of that trial.  They did mention the median dose in the discussion:

    This study has several limitations. Firstly, the percentage of events in relation to the primary outcome was below the estimate, so this trial was under powered.

    Secondly, the mean dose of ivermectin was 192.37 μg/kg/day (SD ± 24.56), which is below the doses proposed as probably effective [20, 33]. Thirdly, a middle-aged population was included which, in accordance with the first point raised in this section, had hospitalization events below the 10% set at the time of calculating the sample size. On the other hand, including a population with these characteristics increases the external validity of the study. Consideration could be given to analyzing the efficacy of ivermectin in a population at high risk of hospitalization in future trials. Fourth, blood ivermectin levels were not measured, so we cannot know the bioavailability of the drug in these patients or the blood ivermectin levels that were reached. Lastly, we did not include any scale to determine the severity of the patients who were enrolled. At the time of inclusion in IVERCORCOVID19, the patients did not have hospitalization criteria, therefore, we cannot determine if the population included was mostly with a mild or moderate condition or if there was a similar distribution between both groups.

     

     

     

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  • Wed, Jul 21, 2021 - 5:24pm

    Kat43

    Kat43

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    Posts: 449

    4

    Scottish deaths

    And likely the deaths by vaccine were in a much younger population than would have died from the disease.

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  • Wed, Jul 21, 2021 - 5:26pm

    #97

    sand_puppy

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    Posts: 2852

    2

    Must use a BIG enough dose of Ivermectin

    cross posting

    A couple of the IVERMECTIN studies have used low and high doses.

    Too low a dose of IVERMECTIN doesn't work well.  See Vallejo Study referenced by Covid19Crusher here.

    https://twitter.com/Covid19Crusher/status/1412018304047325191/photo/1

    Remember that at least one (small) study demonstrated that Ivermectin was most effective if blood levels got above a specific level (160 ng/ml).  You have to take a big enough dose to produce that blood level.

    I am personally using the FLCCC Alliance recommended "double dose" of 0.4 mg/Kg/day x 5-7 days.  This twice as much as a normal little pony would take.

    If really sick, I would increase my dose to the "triple dose" of 0.6 mg/Kg/day x 5-7 days.

    -----

    A quick review of other stuff that helps:

    The common anti-emetic Zofran (ondansetron) turns out is a serotonin antagonist and shows benefit in COVID.  Any doctor would be happy to prescribe this common medicine for nausea.  Say "I am really nauseated and need a prescription for zofran."

    A more potent inhibitor of serotonin is cyptoheptadine (brand name Periactin) an anti-serotonin/anti-histamine.  This is available from CanadaCloudPharmacy with a prescription, from pet supply stores, and in the USA here.  (Thanks DaveF)

    Anti-androgen blockers (used for enlarged prostate, prostate cancer) also down regulate TMPRSS2 enzyme genes.   TMPRSS2 is a furin-like-enzyme which snips the polybasic (furin) cleavage site benefiting COVID.  Enzalutamide (available in the USA for prostate cancer but costs $3,000--your insurance won't pay for it), Proxalutamide (not available in the USA).  In the USA, finasteride is about as close as we can get.

    The steroid inhaler budesonide (Pulmicort) taken at the beginning of illness is helpful.  (Pulmicort Flexhaler)

    An NSAID like Indocin or Naproxen

    And Melatonin.

    And the basics:  Vitamins D, C, Multi, Zinc, Quercitin

    -----

    Methylprednisolone as soon as O2 saturation begins to fall.  Even small drops signal vasoconstriction in the pulmonary arterioles which is the start of the lung pathology.  (cyproheptadine, claritin, and methylprednisolone needed at this stage.)

    If a person is getting sicker or is a high risk patient, a FIASMA class medicine may help.   Fluvoxamine (Luvox) 50 mg twice daily for 14 days. Rx.  Alternatives are other FIASMA class of medicines Prozac, Paxil, amitriptyline, Zoloft, Claritin or Clarinex (desloratadine)

    Other stuff showing benefit:

    Singulair (monteleukast) 10 mg daily.  used for allergy and asthma.

    Pepcid (famotidine) 40-60 mg daily.  OTC

    Bromhexine (found on ebay)

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  • Wed, Jul 21, 2021 - 5:29pm

    Kathy

    Kathy

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    Kathy said:

    From their limitations write up.

    At the time of inclusion in IVERCORCOVID19, the patients did not have hospitalization criteria, therefore, we cannot determine if the population included was mostly with a mild or moderate condition or if there was a similar distribution between both groups.

    Since the only glaring, not significant but glaring differences is that the 4 in the IVM group that needed ventilation needed it 3 days earlier, if I had to guess the sicker ones ended up in the IVM group.

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  • Wed, Jul 21, 2021 - 8:35pm

    Lenn Arre

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    Lenn Arre said:

    How much Ivermectin should one take for prophylaxis?
    The FLCCC recommends taking 18mg/wk in its I-MASS protocol.
    Were there any NEW recommendations for prophylaxis?
    Thanks. Stay safe.

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  • Thu, Jul 22, 2021 - 9:54pm

    redcloud

    redcloud

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    Collectivism and Hayek

    I couldn't resist looking for a quote from Hayek (author of The Road to Serfdom, i.e. socialism).

    “The argument for liberty is not an argument against organization, which is one of the most powerful tools human reason can employ, but an argument against all exclusive, privileged, monopolistic organization, against the use of coercion to prevent others from doing better.”

    I think this is the key issue.  Organizing with other people to get something done is very powerful.  Using coercion is the problem.  Sometimes coercion is very explicit, as in Stalin's collective farms.  Other times it's more subtle as in the doxing for wrong-think.

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  • Fri, Jul 23, 2021 - 2:06am

    tittyjacob

    tittyjacob

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    tittyjacob said:

    Kuwait hospital healthworkers report a majority of cases hospitalised now are fully inoculated with pfizer shots. Unvaccinated cases are only a few !

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  • Fri, Jul 23, 2021 - 10:13am

    adapt-and-overcome

    adapt-and-overcome

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    adapt-and-overcome said:

    I-MASK+ Protocol

    Note that the recommendation is not 18mg but rather 0.2mg/kg of body weight.  18mg would be for a 90kg person [~200lbs].

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  • Fri, Jul 23, 2021 - 11:33am

    jturbo68

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Aug 04 2009

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    jturbo68 said:

    If most hospital healthcare workers are vaccinated, and the vaccine doesnt eliminate getting c19, then this could easily be true and not mean very much overall.

     

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  • Sun, Jul 25, 2021 - 3:38pm

    dockw

    dockw

    Status: Member

    Joined: Oct 25 2010

    Posts: 8

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    dockw said:

    1. I took a look at the study. Seems like a honest attempt. That being said I saw no data on levels of PCR testing. No mention of it being a consideration in breaking out the groups. Lower ct levels in 20’s would indicate higher spread and would suggest that intervention might have been too late. But a difference here would be very significant.
      Noticed high white blood cell count w IVT group.  This difference wasn’t noted and no mention of testing for difference between the two groups  Don’t know if that would matter as I’m out of my knowledge on the implications if any.

     

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