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    Strategic Relocation

    Would you be better off in a different house, community, city or state?
    by Adam Taggart

    Thursday, January 16, 2020, 8:43 PM

One of the most frequent questions we get from people working to become more resilient is: Is there a better place I should move to?

Answering this question isn’t simple.

First you need to to determine what selection criteria are important to your decision-making and prioritize them according to your specific personal requirements and goals. Then you need a region-by-region evaluation that enables you to identify potential “good fit” options.

This process can be overwhelming for most folks starting from scratch. Which is why turning to a time-tested guide to this process can be a tremendously valuable resource.

There aren’t that many out there. The best one we know of that’s still in print is Strategic Relocation by Joel Skousen.

This 350-page encyclopedic work specifies the key metrics to focus on in the relocation process and evaluates and scores the major regions of North America on each.

It’s a great resource encapsulating a massive amount of research and analysis, which is why we’re so pleased to announce that its author, Joel Skousen, has confirmed he’ll be a featured speaker at the Peak Prosperity annual seminar on May 1-3, 2020 in Sebastopol, CA.

As many of you know, my fellow Peak Prosperity co-founder, Chris Martenson, has just acquired a new retreat property. At the upcoming seminar, he and Joel will lead a highly-interactive discussion about the search process, what to look for at the regional/community/property level, and take copious Q&A from the audience.

Joel joins our strongest faculty line-up ever, which now includes, Bruce Buena de Mesquita (The Rules For Rulers), Peter Boghossian (How To Have Impossible Conversations), Mike Maloney, Charles Hugh Smith, Wolf Richter, Axel Merk, John Rubino, Richard Heinberg, Jeff Clark, the farmers from Singing Frogs Farm, the financial experts from New Harbor Financial and Joe Stumpf.

The programming for this year’s seminar just gets better and better with each passing week. It’s easily going to be our best ever.

And we still have a few more names to announce in the coming days…

So if you’re planning to come, register soon in order to lock in the Early Bird price discount. It’s a 38% savings(!) off of the general admission price, and it expires soon.

Chris and I can’t wait to see you there in May.

But first, lock in your seat! The Early Bird price discount expires in just 2 weeks!!

 

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48 Comments

  • Fri, Jan 17, 2020 - 11:42am

    #1
    VTGothic

    VTGothic

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    Locate outside the Main Exodus Corridors

    It’s my opinion that one relocation criterion ought to be picking an area that is less likely to be in the path of least resistance to those vacating large urban settings. Since I am a Yankee by disposition, I want to be in New England; so, my choice is upper New England. Comfortably north of I-84. I expect the vast majority of people living in the Northeast who have to vacate cities like Boston, Baltimore, and New York City will be inclined to head west and south where the climate is warmer for those nights outside, and food is more easily grown – or scrounged from the wild.

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  • Fri, Jan 17, 2020 - 2:25pm

    #2

    thc0655

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    And you might want to consider these possibilities

    Finally: I liked a “Crapper” post!

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  • Fri, Jan 17, 2020 - 4:01pm

    #3
    QQQBall

    QQQBall

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    Please more embedded advertising on Peak Prosperity; not enough already.

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  • Fri, Jan 17, 2020 - 5:20pm

    #4

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

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    Miss that block button

    Per Crapper –
    Western schooling systems tell them from the age of four that “girls are best at everything and boys are just sh1t” along with other humiliations.

    Nope, totally wrong, but most likely your experience.

    b) Become sexist: Western promoted “Girrrrl power” will be terminated in gratuitous and violent gang rapes on a scale that will be shocking (see ‘a’ above). Conservatism and a submissive demeanor will become a girls best friend in relationships and social behavior.

    Your misogny is obvious and offensive! In previous posts you refer to women as chattel.  Your contempt is insulting.

    thc0655 I am disappointed you liked his post!

    Interesting it seems to be Grandma that points out the obvious and the rest of you all are passive and silent. Sad or maybe pathetic.

    AKGrannWGrit

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  • Fri, Jan 17, 2020 - 5:57pm

    Reply to #4
    Mots

    Mots

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    Baizuo and the civilization that replaces America

    lol
    I see a very interesting difference of opinion in these last few comments.  As usual, crapper stirs the pot.  lol

    While we are wringing our hands and bit*ching in public about the demise of the (exponential growth based on consumption) Empire, the loss of the American middle class etc. the rest of the world outside the West is experiencing a profound increase in egalitarianism and living standards.  Tens of millions of Chinese have already and are continuing to enter the middle class.  Similar increase in middle class is occurring in other countries from Vietnam to Nepal…………………….

    After the collapse of Western civilization, factories will be producing desirable goods (presumably at lower level) in Asia.  Some places there with decreasing population will even be desirable locations to live.

    But the American White Liberal class (the main beneficiary of the American world wide confiscatory system) and its values will mostly disappear.   This is why I agree with crappers comments.  The Chinese have a term for the temporarily existing White Liberal: Baizuo.  Here is a summary from zerohedge.   (Black Pigeon Speaks also has a good video on this from about a year ago.) https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-21/baizuo-new-derogatory-term-millions-chinese-are-using-describe-americas-white-left-r
    My point is, from the viewpoint of humanity on the planet, things are not as bad as the  Baizuo in America deem it to be.  True, America and the West (and especially the Baizuo) will become impoverished.  But this is to a large extent merely a result from the demise of the American Confiscatory Machine, that funnels resources from the rest of the world into America courtesy of the military and banker’s schemes mostly from the IMF and world bank.  But the rest of the world (the majority actually) will not suffer the same fate because they are the ones presently losing their resources and oil etc to the American Confiscators and their multinationals which are/have removed obstacles to the pillaging of their resources based on regime changes, bribery and international agreements that remove local and national legal protections.

    It is possible to have a non-exponential growth civilization after the demise of the American Confiscators.  CM’s work in NH is a shining example of what direction to shift our hand wringing energies to.  We in America have been blinded by the power of exponential growth and refuse to learn from outside America or even to understand things from their points of view.  (Indians want US to use less oil but let them (the Indians) catch up and burn MORE fossil fuel is a small example.  But there have been advanced civilizations in the past that did not rely on exponential energy growth and in fact were steady state.  With advanced technology, we can do much better and have a comfortable lifestyle IF willing to change behavior and modify our daily activities to comport with energy availability (as one example of personal change needed).
    ….  I disagree with Crapper, in that  there are some places in an emergent Asia where a White (but not necessarily Liberal) American who is willing to work and to eschew guns and drugs, can have a good life during the expected collapse. But that is a very different and narrow subject.
    I am optimistic.

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  • Fri, Jan 17, 2020 - 6:19pm

    Reply to #4
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

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    Agree 100% with AKGranny's post!

    Thanks AKGranny for your quick and on-target response to Crapper’s misogynist, offensive and typically self-aggrandizing post. (Where’s the “down vote” button when you need it?!) In disgust, I literally had to walk away from my laptop before responding.  I am also surprised and disappointed to see PP members up-voting his post.  :-/

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  • Fri, Jan 17, 2020 - 7:11pm

    #5

    AKGrannyWGrit

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    Hello, Common Sense Out There?

    Mots

    As usual, crapper stirs the pot.  lol

    Ah, no NOT funny!

    As a member for almost 10 years there have been times when women have complained of offensive posts and we were what I would now call, gaslighted. Oh you mis-understood, are too sensitive, your perception is wrong. Message we are wrong, the minority, deal with it.

    So Chris and Adam, how many read these posts?  How many will read that Crapper is promoting the rape and degradation of women. Hey its okay in a post collapse society, just expect it, right? Guys after all have been the victim’s.

    Chris and Adam to not speak out is to tolerate the message!

    And no one on the site gets to tell me or any other woman/women that our perception or offense is inappropriate or wrong.

    PS a shitload of us gals are armed and experienced too. Unlike societies of the past.

    AKGrannyWGrit

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  • Fri, Jan 17, 2020 - 8:01pm

    #6
    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

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    His post was not misogynist !

    Fine to disagree with it, but why mischaracterize it ?

    There was nothing in it anti-woman.  It was just an apocalyptic viewpoint.

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  • Fri, Jan 17, 2020 - 8:03pm

    Reply to #4
    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

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    dont play the gender card

    If you dont like the post, wouldnt it be better to address what you see as inaccuracies ?  And not presume that you speak for all women here ?

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  • Fri, Jan 17, 2020 - 8:05pm

    #7

    Adam Taggart

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    Moderator In The House

    Hey, folks. Busy day. Just seeing all this now.

    Yep, Crapper’s posts on this thread are in obvious violation of this website’s Posting Guidelines and Rules, particularly our requirements for courteous interaction & constructive illumination and against “Inappropriateness”.

    His posts on this thread have been removed, as have Crapper’s wider posting privileges. He’s now on moderator review. This is not the first kerfuffle he’s been in the middle of. If he can learn to express his position in a way that comports with our site rules, we’ll give him the chance to re-enter public discussion.

    For anyone unclear on our guidelines, you can read them in full here. Though I’m posting the ‘meat’ of them below, as I think we can all benefit with a refresher:

    TERMS OF USE

    We expect people to maintain the same level of civility in posting that a polite wedding guest would have at the reception table —before drinks are served.

    We expect and require courteous interactions everywhere comments can be posted to the site. In an online community, social courtesies are observed, just as at a physical gathering.  One doesn’t monopolize the conversation, pound the table about a single point until others’ eyes glaze over, insult their host or their fellow guests, or spew patently offensive slurs.  Tactfulness is a reasonable expectation within a voluntary community.

    Please ask yourself these questions before making a post:

    1. Does my post constructively illuminate an issue or answer a specific question?
    2. If constructively critical, is it emotionally neutral and considerate? Does it offer specific, actionable solutions?
    3. If asking a question, is it a bona fide question that will lead to an increased understanding of the “Thee Es” and related topics?

    Users should strive to post with integrity, accuracy and courtesy.  We expect that users will not abuse their anonymity by posting things that a polite individual would refrain from saying in person.

    We expect users to take reasonable care to make sure that their posts are accurate and always use verifiable facts to support an argument.  We expect users to do their best to offer constructive solutions to problems. And expect users to remember that this site is about strengthening our communities, not tearing them down or otherwise damaging them.


    GUIDELINES & RULES

    For posts that stray outside of our admittedly subjective boundary lines, we reserve the right to modify or remove any given post to conform to our definition of “acceptable posting.”

    Posts may be edited or removed for any of the following:

    • Ad hominem: Personal attacks
    • Illegality: Posts which are in violation of any law or which openly advocate breaking the law
    • Error: Posts containing information known to be false
    • Infringement: Posts violating copyright laws
    • AbuseHateful, taunting, violent, or harassing posts
    • InvasionPosts that are invasive of personal privacy
    • Hijacking: Posts in blatant disregard of purpose for which a specific thread was created
    • Bloviating: Sucking up too much of the discussion with over-frequent/too long post or rants
    • Irrelevance: Posts that do not add enough (or anything at all) towards advancing the topic under discussion
    • Tone-Deafness: Ignoring corrective feedback from the site managers/moderators
    • Inappropriateness: Posts containing any language or material not suitable for all audiences. Or that would trigger a corporate firewall or cause responsible parents to block us out. This includes all profanity, sexism, racism, pornography, intolerance of any social/demographic/cultural group, etc.
    • Spam: Unsolicited and/or commercial advertisements

    Here’s a handy graphic.  Our hope at PP is to operate at the topmost level(s) of Graham’s Hierarchy of Disagreement, and avoid the lower ones completely:

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  • Fri, Jan 17, 2020 - 8:11pm

    #8
    Mots

    Mots

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    It's complicated

    Crapper: “Asia” is overly broad and seems to include totally different cultures, totally different histories and more than half of the planet population-wise………..
    About 25 million people lived sustainably for 200 years (1650-1850) while building a society that was healthier and more civilized than Europe (waste removal-never had the black death, recycling of virtually everything, sustainable energy) on one set of islands that I am aware of before they were “woke” by the West and began exponential expansion.

    Geography, geography, geography……  Remote island or otherwise remote locations had the best civilizations, in my opinion.  Such can be found in places in Asia. No time to go into more.

    AKAGranny: In my world, women are stronger than men. My neighborhood corner is known as the 3 sisters because the women here are very strong, they build boats, maintain them, take care of problems etc. and are very outspoken.   They lead by example and their husbands often follow them, even into starting new lives sustainably.  My young farmer friend began farming because his wife decided to start a Buddhist food restaurant, for example.  The earliest history of Japan (recording by Chinese explorers) reported that women were the actual rulers there.  Germany is ruled by a woman, many examples.  I don’t see what is the big deal, in observing that a large proportion (it seems to me the majority) of people in the US are starting to live so close to getting by, that the old ways are reappearing.   This is an observation and denying (what seem to be) facts does not advance the present internet chit chat crapping ball of communication.

    In this regard I note that real communication does not come from resonance. Instead communication, and understanding come from non -resonant energy transfer.  Sorry to offend, but this is how science, law and human progress works.  Huddling, holding hands, singing kumbaya does not advance the ball.  Dealing with contradictions, inconsistencies and most of all, disparate views and experiences from others is vitally important to progress, and in my opinion is the key to Western culture and its successes.  CM and Adam can follow Facebook and others to promote certain Baizuo views or pro government views of whatever.  It will be interesting to see if they take you up on your desire to censor views that don’t mesh with yours.  Name calling and denial of forum is acceptable in many places and the internet is a big arena that allows those who don’t agree with you to go somewhere else.  Maybe you want CM and Adam to censor/ban certain individuals.  In that event , make me the first one.

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  • Fri, Jan 17, 2020 - 8:33pm

    Reply to #8

    Adam Taggart

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    Not about being in agreement

    Mots wrote: It will be interesting to see if they take you up on your desire to censor views that don’t mesh with yours.

    We rarely step in to moderate the Comments here, as this community usually does a wonderful job protecting the integrity of the rare and valuable high-quality idea exchange that happens at PP.com. I think this is only the second time in a year we’ve stepped in.

    To be clear: when we do, it is to correct the process of the idea exchange, not the ideas themselves (unless, of course, hate/illegality is the clear intent)

    Respectful debate with other intelligent minds that challenges our understanding is the best way to learn.

    In the case here with Crapper, he made a number of points that, while potentially controversial, would have been allowed if more respectfully presented. For example, to conjecture that the breakdown of law in a post-collapse society may result in a rise of violent crimes such as rape is a reasonable theory to posit.

    Crapper’s problem is in his delivery, slinging incendiary statements with a crudeness that can easily be interpreted as an intent to insult or outrage.

    Remember folks:

    We expect people to maintain the same level of civility in posting that a polite wedding guest would have at the reception table —before drinks are served.

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  • Fri, Jan 17, 2020 - 8:51pm

    #9
    Sparky1

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    'Not giving credence to Crapper's post-apocalyptic wet dream fantasies...

    and his illusions of grandeur and superiority as he likens himself to Jesus casting his “holy” “pearls” of “great insight and warning.” He counsels his presumably enthralled audience (Alas, if only they would listen!) to “embrace violence”, and women and girls to adopt “conservativism” and a “submissive demeanor…in relationships and social behavior” or suffer the fate gang rapes and/or murder.

    Contrary to Crapper’s admittedly “depressing view of the future,” I will not be cowering passively on the side-lines “… with beer and popcorn for this, the Greatest Show on Earth.” Rest assured that I am strong, prepared, well-armed and standing with/for my “tribe” to thwart miscreants like Crapper and others intent on doing harm to me and/or my loved ones.

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  • Fri, Jan 17, 2020 - 8:57pm

    Reply to #8
    nigel

    nigel

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    Regarding relocation

    Regarding relocation, it’s difficult to move and adapt to a different culture or sub culture. I’ve made three big moves in my life and each time the amount of social isolation increases. In order to become part of a village you have to share experiences with them, so in my current location I’m not really considered a full local by the farming communities who have been here for generations, but because i stop to help people who have car break downs or flat tires, and because i help out in floods and fires I am accepted more than people who are just weekenders. My move was to an area i went to school in (just one town over) to a people who are the same racial subtype, in the same basic culture.

    Regarding clappers opinions, and no I’m not going to read his posts or watch his movies, I’ve been on the end of a few mild police beatings without breaking the law, and a few fights for standing up against bullies as I come from a lower socioeconomic area. I hold the opinion that people both women and men are just as capable of horrible and noble things, and that to differentiate between women and men is to miss the point that all people can be cruel or kind, and you will never know as a rule based on gender which is which, only by judging each person on their actions will you see them as they are. I have met vile women who I would sell up and move away from, and I’ve met great women, just as I’ve met bad men and good men. The point I’m trying to make is that it’s safer in the long run to sit and watch what people do before you have anything to do with them, making judgements based on gender isn’t a good thing for your own survival.

    Now if you wanted to make a comment that there are several prominent sub cultures that are promoting insane lifestyle choices and you should avoid them, then i would have to agree with that comment. Have I seen toxic women’s sub cultures, yep sure, I’m just not going to say a particular woman is bad or good until I’ve seen her actions, just like I do with a man.

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  • Fri, Jan 17, 2020 - 9:03pm

    Reply to #8
    nigel

    nigel

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    Adam Taggart

    Hey I’ve been meaning to ask this for a while, Adam do you have a relative by the name of Dagny who runs a railroad?

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  • Fri, Jan 17, 2020 - 9:24pm

    #10

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

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    You missed the point

    “Name calling and denial of forum is acceptable in many places and the internet is a big arena that allows those who don’t agree with you to go somewhere else.  Maybe you want CM and Adam to censor/ban certain individuals.”

    You are dam right!

    Mots you missed the point, I think Adam did too.

    The message was –

    Starting at about 4 boys are a victim of girls.

    “ Become sexist: Western promoted “Girrrrl power” will be terminated in gratuitous and violent gang rapes on a scale that will be shocking (see ‘a’ above). Conservatism and a submissive demeanor will become a girls best friend in relationships and social behavior.”

    Sooo the message – poor guys they are the victims and women will get what they deserve.

    Crapper has made misogynistic statements before! No Adam Crappers problem is not his DELIVERY its his MESSAGE

    It scares the daylights out of me (and it should you too) that someone can come on your website promote rape and degradation and you call it a problem with delivery!  How many people read his post, had a seed planted and then at some point in time that seed will grow and the thought “yeah I am the victim here and she gets what she deserves”!  You try and plant seeds of thought all the time hoping to reach people about the three E’s.  Whether you see it or not and whether you acknowledge it or not Crapper’s message was promoting RAPE. It was NOT a delivery problem!!!  And, I think its gaslighting to say otherwise.

    AKGrannyWGrit

     

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  • Sat, Jan 18, 2020 - 12:34am

    Reply to #9
    davefairtex

    davefairtex

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    crapper?

    Sparky-

    Crapper??  Is he still a thing here?  Sheesh.  I think they call it “hoovering” or something – when someone swings around trying to milk some more “supply” from an old source just one more time.

    So here’s a question:

    Is it an ad-hom attack to long-distance diagnose someone of having a particular disorder?  Oh it probably is.  But what if it also happens to be true – what if they really are manifesting all the signs and symptoms?

    I mean, its a really good object lesson, so you can recognize this particular personality type.  “He’s not an ‘ass hat’ he’s suffering from a mental disorder, which manifests in the following way.”  I didn’t learn about sociopathy or narcissism in any real way until about 5-6 years ago.  And I grew up with a narc in my family!  (Diagnosed years later by other family members).  It would have been extremely helpful for me to learn about this sort of thing earlier…my goodness…

    Do I digress?  Maybe a little.  🙂

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  • Sat, Jan 18, 2020 - 2:04am

    Reply to #9
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

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    Yes, unfortunately another close encounter of the crappy kind.

    Hi Dave,

    I know (and really tried) not to take the bait and engage this special personality, but I felt strongly that The Crapper’s comments warranted a response. At least the exchanges did not deteriorate further as to hijack the thread to the detriment of productive conversation and the PP community.

    Of course, respectful disagreements and lively debate are fine, to be expected at times and can encourage personal growth and understanding. IMO, Crapper’s comments were very disrespectful at the very least. Thankfully, Adam stepped in early as Moderator to temporarily limit/suspend Crapper’s posting privileges and remove his most recent “inappropriate” (e.g., offensive, insulting, incendiary…) comments.

    I’m not a mental health professional but, like you, I have also lived with a narcissistic personality in the past so have some experience in that regard.  (Lucky us!)  It is questionable as to whether and how well such individuals respond to “treatment”. In this case, I guess we’ll know soon enough when The Crapper’s posting privileges are reinstated.

    While I stand by my comments, I apologize to the PP community if I contributed unnecessarily to this most recent crappy kerfuffle.

     

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  • Sat, Jan 18, 2020 - 2:28am

    Reply to #8
    Mots

    Mots

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    while potentially controversial, would have been allowed if more respectfully presented

    Adam, you again are the man.  I agree completely with what you are doing.

    On a related topic of fascism, Chris Hedges defines fascism as the merger of state and corporate power.  But fascism also is expressed when person steps on another (or gets them fired from their job, or kicks them off a website) as an alternative to argument.  We called that McCarthyism….

    The world is very complex, evolving rapidly, and can use some serious confrontation with opposing ideas.  Here is an example close to me: In my case, people keep saying that Japan is very male dominated, yet I notice that the women control the money.  With few exceptions, the man works very hard, gives all his money to his wife and gets a small allowance in return. Yet the white liberals in America proclaim that Japan is backwards-male dominated (because the international corporate jobs are held mostly by men who’s money is controlled by women).  Why the valuation of a formal job with an international corp. as being superior to other activities?

    Things are very complicated and not resolved by banishing those who disagree with you.  Communication is not resonance. The resonance “golly you say what I think as well!  I feel so close to you! I resonate with you brother!” is merely a medium of transfer.   The communication itself is new information that by definition does not resonate.   Money analogously is not wealth but a means or medium to transfer wealth. Resonance (politeness, I resonate with you and want to hear you! etc.) is merely a conduit/medium that provides for communication, which itself requires disparate, new information that does not resonate. Crapper provides discordant information and has many good points, in my opinion that do not resonate. The fact that he writes like an as**ole does not change the meaning of the information.

    A most memorable experience from my childhood was when my Polish uncle got married and during the reception at an establishment owned by an Italian, the Italian got up and uttered some very nasty Pollock jokes after which my uncle uttered some very nasty wop jokes.  This went on back and forth.  I was at first upset but finally realized that these were both Americans that perhaps were demonstrating their merger into American life.  We need a little more humor and less fascism.

    This crapper thing is a valuable exercise in handling differences at a small level. Things are going to get a lot worse.  what will you do then? burn down crappers house? make him wear an armband?

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  • Sat, Jan 18, 2020 - 2:47am

    #11
    Rodster

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    I Had No Problems With Crapper's Crude Take And He Is Correct

    While some might find his views on a lawless future off putting or disgusting, he’s right based on the human track record. What he was describing is EXACTLY what “ISIS” or a total breakdown in the rule of law looks like. ISIS, unchecked looks a lot like what Crapper posted. I’m pretty sure if any of us went to Libya, Iraq or other places where there’s a breakdown in the rule of law, if would fit Crapper’s description.

    And we are beginning to see more and more civil unrest around the world. A recent ZeroHedge article says that in 2020 we can expect 40% of the world dealing with civil unrest. Now just imagine when we are all faced with a complete global economic collapse and governments being overthrown. It has the potential to get real ugly, real fast.

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  • Sat, Jan 18, 2020 - 5:06am

    #12
    davefairtex

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    motivation, exile

    Sure, anyone can paint an end-times picture.  The issue is – what’s the motivation behind doing so?  And why do his “paintings” all have a certain vibe to them?

    Perhaps those of us who have lived with specific personality types can spot people who have a strong secondary motivation for why they do things.

    Or maybe it isn’t a secondary motivation.  Maybe it is the entire reason for the post, and the ostensible subject and the entire follow-on discussion just provides plausible deniability.

    In primitive societies, people who made a habit of pulling the group apart got kicked out.  So – Mots – no house-burning.  Exile.  That’s what Rome did.  They sent you off to the fringes of the Empire instead of burning your house.  And in smaller groups, they just made you leave and not come back.

    https://www.britannica.com/topic/exile-law

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  • Sat, Jan 18, 2020 - 6:28am

    #13

    Rector

    Status: Bronze Member

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    Posts: 353

    3+

    Can You Just Skip Past

    Why do ya’ll spend time replying to and discussing posts that are incendiary by design?

    Rector

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  • Sat, Jan 18, 2020 - 7:02am

    Reply to #10

    Quercus bicolor

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Mar 19 2008

    Posts: 318

    4+

    clarification

    I respectfully withdraw my comment.  Granny is right on in her comment above.  I had forgotten about crapper’s misogynist language in his earlier posts.  See sparky’s examples below.

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  • Sat, Jan 18, 2020 - 9:54am

    #14
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 571

    2+

    Hmmm...I'm noticing a crappy pattern here.

    Here’s a sampling of excerpted PP posts by Crapper. Unless things change, I think the potential opportunity for constructive dialogue with Crapper is extremely limited by his apparent obsession with promoting violence, denigrating women and girls, and insulting PP members while asserting his self-proclaimed superiority.  [Note: I had some difficulty with the links to the specific comments. A bit clumsy, but hopefully these are sourced correctly.]

    https://www.peakprosperity.com/these-are-the-good-old-days/#comment-129842

    Comment #3 (comment-129842)
    (Crapper’s dark parable of brothers Bill and Tom; a cautionary tale of male-victim divorce rape/rape, children of divorced mothers as jailbirds, sluts and suicide.)

    https://www.peakprosperity.com/these-are-the-good-old-days/#comment-130348

    Reply to #8 (comment-130348)
    Excerpt: “…you’re too stupid to be protected from your own stupidity….I can only groan when you post such low IQ replies that I shake my head in disbelief….DON’T make public replies with reference to numbers or statistics when you’re too tragically stupid to know how stupid you are.”

    https://www.peakprosperity.com/these-are-the-good-old-days/#comment-130403

    Reply to #8 (comment-130403)
    Excerpt: “…you couldn’t even comprehend a few simple sentences written in plain English. What does that say about your IQ? Although you didn’t claim to be the sharpest tool in the shed, you have actually proved you’re one of the bluntest. Ouch!”

    https://www.peakprosperity.com/whats-possible/#comment-240006

    Comment #2 (comment-240006)
    Excerpt: “…women won’t give up their sexual freedoms or political power, men want to live like hogs, blacks want the fruits of whites and whites want the fruits of their forebears WITHOUT the “regeneration” mentioned above. Oh… and the Elites want to remain treacherous and keep stealing….90% [of the world’s population] will die, Die DIE!….But Crapper always likes to end on a positive note: secure your Bitcoin and gold and brush up on your training for violence….My counsel remains… be chipper and prepare for the end with popcorn and beer… it’ll be the greatest show on earth!”

    https://www.peakprosperity.com/whats-possible/#comment-240691

    Reply to #6 (comment-240691)
    Excerpt: “…requires one to forsake the ideals and values of the ascent. For the white, middle class (a large portion of this website) it means embracing violence, racism, sexism and wielding murderously raw power (or seeking allegiance with those who do). ” And, “…war bands. These are roaming bands of young men who were given no stake in the failing system and so have nothing to lose in a collapse. They thrive by murder, rape and pillage. They are warlords and heroes within their own tribe. They are the product of telling our boys from the age of four that “Girls are best at everything and boys are just shit!” [Sparky1 edit, bold added]….So joining a War Band will be a winning strategy for a multitude of disenfranchised men….”

    https://www.peakprosperity.com/getting-real-about-green-energy/#comment-199729

    Comment#2 (comment-199729)
    Excerpt: “That’s why I studied Dark Ages, famines… and all things “Doom and Gloom!”. I personally went through the four stages of grief: (a) Whoah… we’re in serious poop (b) Hey, no one else is getting prepared (c) I’ll grab the best resources while the goings good and (d) get the beers and popcorn ready for the show… and laugh at the 90% dying in their own stupidity while Crapper and his Harem special friends and close mates set themselves up for the new warlords of the local fiefdom.”

    And, “…Crapper doesn’t like to post without giving some good advice, so here it is:  Look for a great survival property that would serve well in an “end of the world” scenario. Ensure that it’s in an area populated by people who racially resemble you but not the owner: if you’re white and live in USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc, then rent from someone Chinese. If you’re Hispanic, rent off a wealthy white person in South America. When the SHTF occurs, shoot the owners when they come to visit the property. Now it belongs to you! That’s the new rules for the Dark Age. And you’ll thank Crapper for getting you and your family a “Get out of Jail” card for free when the Four Horsemen ride into town. ”

     

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  • Sat, Jan 18, 2020 - 10:15am

    #15

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 2143

    5+

    Devolution to lower organizational memes with collapse

    Many, many collapse stories predict a a devolution to lower (more ancient) ways of thinking and social organizations during a collapse.  These are not new ways of doing things, but were the ancient norms of human organization in centuries and millennia past.  [In Spiral Dynamics, these patterns of thinking and organizational structures are called “vMemes” or just “Memes”.]

    One example:  A feudal lord owned the land and the people who lived on it.

    This devolution is found in collapse fiction (hundreds of stories) including JHK’s novels and his post here at PP a couple of years ago, and Orlov’s predictions for the US future based on the Russian experience, and Selco’s stories from Yugoslavia.

    The most notable downward shift is social reorganization into gangs held together by charismatic or powerful leaders.

    Some may be centered around a religious or moral teaching and the leader a charismatic and righteous person.   The Law is given by both a document of rules (scripture/code-of-conduct/constitution) AND that leader’s particular implementation of those rules. [BLUE]

    Others by raw power, with leadership determined by strength, political skill, and the ability to maintain a hierarchy that makes the group powerful and maintains his power.  (See the “Rules for Rulers” video.)   A strong leader will guide his tribe to conquest of resource rich neighbors, making his group wealthy and rewarding his most loyal keys-to-power.  [ORANGE]

    Others, the lowest, is a gang structure held by the brutality of the warlord.  The leader is the most powerful male, who beats and rapes subordinates on a regular basis to maintain a climate of fear that is the mechanism of his grip on power. [RED]  This system is not robust and is rarely seen outside prison and inner city gangs.  BLUE and ORANGE are much more successful.

    And indeed, one of the shocking and enraging (to me) aspects of our current world is discovering that the actual motivation of the oligarchy is far more primitive that the publicly espoused values.

    • The equality of all peoples.  [Unless the oligarchy can distribute wealth–and hence power– to an in-group.]
    • Respect for women.  [Unless your young daughters can be used to honey-pot traps in a blackmail system or rented out to reward the king’s loyal “keys to power” with pleasures.]
    • The rule of law and justice.  [Unless the oligarchy wants to have you killed for any reason or give insiders an advantage.]
    • Humanitarian wars to protect the world from WMDs and “heartless dictators.”  [Which actually turn out to be for the purpose destroying competitors and stealing resources.]
    • etc. etc.

    I don’t know what collapse will look like.  However, it seems very likely that it will be at a much lower (more primitive) level.  It is probably good to adjust early to this possibility.

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  • Sat, Jan 18, 2020 - 10:39am

    Reply to #4
    VTGothic

    VTGothic

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 05 2020

    Posts: 58

    1+

    Life outside White West will be fine

    Depends on what you imagine the “end” to look like. Crapper’s video (which, sorry Grandma, I thought was rather funny) posits some kind of energy/nuclear apocalypse. In that scenario, the rest of the world is not going to be faring so much better.

    Similarly, I don’t see how the West – esp. the US – goes down economically without the rest of the world being affected at least for awhile.  I think the people who will fare the best, whether in the US, the West more generally, the North, or anywhere in the world where standards of living are rising as  increasing numbers of people leave the farm and head to the urban and industrial centers (the source of that wealth effect), will be those who stay on the farm, or return to it.

    The post-decline world belongs to the journeymen and journeywomen.

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  • Sat, Jan 18, 2020 - 10:47am

    Reply to #8

    Adam Taggart

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: May 25 2009

    Posts: 2923

    4+

    Who is John Galt?

    nigel asked: Adam do you have a relative by the name of Dagny who runs a railroad?

    You mean Grandma?

    🙂

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  • Sat, Jan 18, 2020 - 10:55am

    #16

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 810

    2+

    Thank You Adam and Spark1

    Being on the receiving end of Crappers insults is not, and has not been a pleasant experience.

    And for those of you who have no problem with the Crapper style of conversation, his content and message here is a quote for you.

    ”The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch and do nothing”. Albert Einstein

    Appreciate your intervention Adam and the time you spent researching Sparky1.

    AKGrannyWGrit

     

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  • Sat, Jan 18, 2020 - 10:58am

    Reply to #8
    VTGothic

    VTGothic

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 05 2020

    Posts: 58

    4+

    Setting Up House in New Neighborhoods

    Regarding relocation, it’s difficult to move and adapt to a different culture or sub culture. I’ve made three big moves in my life and each time the amount of social isolation increases. In order to become part of a village you have to share experiences with them, so in my current location I’m not really considered a full local by the farming communities who have been here for generations, but because i stop to help people who have car break downs or flat tires, and because i help out in floods and fires I am accepted more than people who are just weekenders.

    I, too, have made multiple moves. In my experience it takes about a year in a new community just to figure out where the “landmines” are; it’s a good time to do a whole lot of listening and little to no talking – esp. if that talking is to dispense advice or “wisdom.” It takes about 7 years to get less mobile communities to begin to see you as someone who is at least thinking about staying around awhile. They’ll have been watching to see how you conduct yourself on your place (are you really planting gardens and raising animals, or are you just a city kid living in the country as a lark?), and how much you’re willing to listen when a local offers advice and perspective. Do you find ways to serve the community without trying to direct it? If all of that works out okay, you’ll likely be allowed to – figuratively – stand in the doorway of the locals’ social house while they sit around the wood stove chatting. But there’s a reasonable chance your kids or grandkids will be sitting with them.

    I got introduced to this reality when I lived in a room rented in the farmhouse of an old NH farming couple for a year in college. That was in Franconia NH. The wife was from St. Johnsbury VT. She’d lived on the husband’s family’s farm for well over 40 years and raised 12 kids there, and was still – by her and her husband’s accounts – still considered “from away.” When she told me the story, her usually very quiet husband chuckled and quoted the old Yankee proverb: “Just ’cause yer cat has kittens in the oven don’t make ’em biscuits.”

    My wife and I didn’t even have kittens in this oven. Any acceptance toward the locals’ circle I consider graciousness. But I won’t resent what isn’t offered. Rather, I’ll keep trying to be a good Woodchuck’s Apprentice, learning from whomever will teach me how to survive and thrive in rural Vermont over the very long haul.

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  • Sat, Jan 18, 2020 - 11:21am

    Reply to #4
    VTGothic

    VTGothic

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 05 2020

    Posts: 58

    3+

    Quoting, and Commenting on, Myself

    Crapper’s video (which, sorry Grandma, I thought was rather funny) posits some kind of energy/nuclear apocalypse.

    Yikes! As a newbie here I have not been exposed to Crapper’s history. I do think the video amusing viewed in itself. I am very disturbed by the excerpts of his previous postings provided by Sparky1, and that must color how one watches his video. Not so funny seen in that context.

    Adam, Chris – it really is okay to “fire” some customers. As I’ve observed elsewhere, it’s not necessary to “marry” whoever shows up. The flip side: some people should be actively discouraged from hanging around.

    I, too, have dealt with disturbing/disturbed personalities; in my case, in one of the intentional communities of which I was a part in my 20s. There is a time when tolerance is most definitely not a virtue; dangerous, even.

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  • Sat, Jan 18, 2020 - 11:46am

    Reply to #10
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 571

    3+

    QB, yes, he posted it.

    Quercus bicolor,

    My recollection is that Crapper did write in his since-removed post (paraphrasing here) that boys become rapists (in a collapse situation) because starting at age 4 boys are taught that “girls are best at everything and boys are just shit.”  The rest of AKGranny’s quote (“Become sexist….”) is accurate as I recall.

    Interestingly, he made a very similar statement in a 2019 post, “They [boys/men] thrive by murder, rape and pillage. They are warlords and heroes within their own tribe. They are the product of telling our boys from the age of four that “Girls are best at everything and boys are just shit!” (See https://www.peakprosperity.com/whats-possible/#comment-240691 and my post #14 above.)

    His statements came across to me as justifying and glorifying violent “payback” against women and girls for perceived, long-standing male victimization by females and society in general.

    This will be my last post on the most recent Crapper kerfuffle.

    Life is calling. 🙂

     

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  • Sat, Jan 18, 2020 - 12:06pm

    #17
    davefairtex

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 1901

    4+

    not-so-hidden agenda

    To me its pretty clear that Crapper’s goal is to crush women underfoot.  Who knows why this is – lifting his personal psychological rock and seeing what scuttled out from underneath it would probably be revealing, but who really wants to look that closely?  Not me.

    At the same time, if the world goes back to “a lower energy state” then the willingness to act violently will start to play a larger role.  And women are statistically less prone to violence: 93% of federal prisoners are men, and of the violent group, those are mostly men as well.  I’m guessing that’s biological.  Testosterone.  Or something.

    So in such a hypothetical “brave new world” women might have to be armed, and willing to use weapons in order to preserve their independence and protect their family.

    Regarding this hypothetical future, I’d prefer to have discussions about this important issue with people that don’t have Crapper’s hidden “subjugate all women” agenda.

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  • Sat, Jan 18, 2020 - 1:56pm

    Reply to #3

    shastatodd

    Status: Member

    Joined: Oct 16 2010

    Posts: 56

    "Please more embedded advertising on Peak Prosperity; not enough already."

    I guess you are not familiar with adblock?

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  • Sun, Jan 19, 2020 - 9:50am

    #18
    RocketDoc

    RocketDoc

    Status: Member

    Joined: Aug 28 2013

    Posts: 25

    6+

    40 acres and a Mule

    I am not counting on learning to farm and then managing a farm in my retirement years.  I  admire Chris’s vision but I have another plan that would encourage local neighborhoods to become more self aware and resilient when the bad recession (read Depression) lays us low.  My neighborhood is 1,000 homes in a defined 3 square mile area.  Lots are 1/2-1 acre.  We are 3 miles from the center of a 200,000 population town.  I don’t WANT to manage like the Cubans had to do after the Soviet Union collapsed, but I think it is possible.  I know and like my neighbors and am known in the community.  I see no advantage to moving to the country.

    I would argue it is better to have friends and/or relatives with a farm than have your own. Kind of like a lake house, vacation home, or beach condo.  We’ll all move in together and do the chores and provide necessary security if things fall drastically apart. Meanwhile, how can we make city living more ecologically sustainable?  The answer is dramatically less energy use and  a neighborhood localism.   My sister lived on a farm until last summer when she got tired of the work and retired to the beach.  Our former neighbors moved over the hill to a horse farm.  If we are talking immediate industrial collapse with no ATM’s, no grocery stores, and no gas stations then even a Mormon storage of a years worth of food will be a dicey survival prospect.  I was in Buenos Aires last year and despite some serious economic issues and money that is becoming worthless fast there are not running gun battles in the street and there are 15 million people there.

    A slightly slower crash (sometimes called a declining standard of living) will permit some adjustments.  Neighborhood localism will not take hold until unemployment climbs markedly.  Banking failure is going to give us a new monetary system one fine day and promises of repayment and pensions will be re-evaluated.  I will be poorer but I would rather rely on the people I know and stay put.  A neighborhood organization can negotiate with the city powers that be (Police, Utilities, Sanitation) for essentials.  Various infrastructure failures do not all have to occur at the same time.  The grid won’t necessarily go down the day the Police walk off the job.  I think neighborhood suburbs might be the most adaptable structure for managing decline.

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  • Sun, Jan 19, 2020 - 6:16pm

    Reply to #15

    Barbara

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 15 2009

    Posts: 127

    10+

    Devolution to lower organizational vMemes with collapse

    Since the Renaissance and Industrial Revolution, collapse of civilization has been a bit different.  For centuries, warlords and barbarians (Red) terrorized large populations (Purple).  Blue “rules of civilization” appeared to stabilize life in past empires.
    Those rules also institutionalized sexism and racism.
    As Orange innovation changed the physical world, people began to question these institutionalized inequalities and first white men began to successfully challenge hereditary rulers and entrenched wealth to demand a fair share.  Then, women and people of color made the same demands.
    Contrary to liberal beliefs, nobody GIVES you your rights.  You must stand up and take them.  Unfortunately, the vast majority of people don’t have the capacity to stand up for themselves and a single person, even John Gault, is at the mercy of the gangs of thugs.
    The me-to movement suggests that crapper is not wrong.  Large numbers of women can’t even stand up to a corporate bully.  They’re certainly going to be quick victims of gangs of armed thugs.
    Granny is also right, in the last 40 years, smart, tough women have entered male dominated careers from engineering to the military and a most of us are also quite capable of physically defending ourselves.  We know the difference between a foul mouth and inappropriate touch.   Competent women are probably still only 10%, but quite frankly the majority of guys are wimps too.  And, unlike many guys, few women see any reason to fight fair or maintain honor.  We’re likely to be smaller, so we aren’t prone to initiate violence, but quite frankly if we think you are, we see no reason not to preempt the situation with a lethal first strike.
    Sand_Puppy is right about the multiple responses to a crisis.  There is an intrinsic polarity between those who feel that community can best supply resilience and those who propose self-reliance.  The liberal gift of identity politics has created large numbers of people who expect others to take care of them and yet they have so tribalized that it’s hard to see functional communities forming in a crisis.

    This group, with minor exceptions seems to understand the concept of creating intentional community around shared goals without demanding groupthink.  Large cities won’t be safe because they can’t possibly feed themselves.  The goal of finding more practical places to live makes a lot of sense.

    Ultimately we’re going to need to be able to feed ourselves and defend ourselves from the gangs of thugs.  This discussion makes me realize that it’s not just where.  Perhaps even more importantly we need to be clear about what kinds of people want in our communities.

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  • Mon, Jan 20, 2020 - 8:27am

    Reply to #15

    Oliveoilguy

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jun 29 2012

    Posts: 618

    2+

    Communities that print their own currency

    The University of the New World was an experimental university near Sion Switzerland in 1972. Besides having  some brilliant minds like Immanuel Velekofsky and Jerzy  Kosinski, the school was modeled after the New England Town Meeting form of governance.  I was the parliamentarian…not because of any great ability, but I loved fairness and truth and really got off on running an honest meeting. Our community printed our own currency “les vache”  …….“cows” in English. Just a piece of paper with a pic of a cow on it. We convinced the local merchants to accept cows in exchange for goods and at the end of every month they could redeem their cows for Swiss francs. They wanted the business from the students enough to take a risk on our currency. Some power brokers didn’t like the direction that the community was taking and did a soft coup d’etat. The University folded and the local merchants were left with piles of paper with cow faces on them.
    .

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  • Mon, Jan 20, 2020 - 7:01pm

    Reply to #15
    davefairtex

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 1901

    2+

    history

    Barbera-

    My reading of the history of Rome  did not suggest they were racist.  They were definitely snobby about people who weren’t Roman, but given how just about anyone could become a citizen (including, and especially, ex-slaves), and becoming a citizen got easier and easier as time passed, race wasn’t a thing for them.  The dividing line was Roman/Not-Roman (slash barbarian), rather than division across some racial line.

    That’s the conclusion drawn by historians I follow anyway.

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  • Tue, Jan 21, 2020 - 4:46am

    #19
    Tim Puffer

    Tim Puffer

    Status: Member

    Joined: Nov 24 2019

    Posts: 11

    2+

    Human sociology and psychology

    Hi Everyone! I’ve been on PP for some time now reading and taking things in. I’ve read both books and am starting toward building resiliency.

    The below link I believe tie into parts of this discussion in regards to comments and then the various thoughts on those comments, and then to why we may make some comments.

    This is a look into the sociology and psychology of us as humans written in a fun and informative structure!

    I don’t make any type of commission or anything from you reading this. It just does a great job of explaining what I typed above! Notes that it is a long read, but well worth it.

    waitbutwhy.com/2019/08/story-intro.html

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  • Tue, Jan 21, 2020 - 9:43am

    #20

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 2143

    3+

    Arkansas Homestead-Hobby Farm

    A friend loves to peruse the internet for good value homes and has taken a hankerin’ to retire near the entertainment Mecca of Harrison, Arkansas.

    He finds this 7 acre farm with a wonderful, modern, 1300 sq foot home with barn, fences, pastures.   $200,000.  Damn.  Wish I could find something like this in Rhode Island…..

    https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3949-State-Hwy-206-Harrison-AR-72601/2082639714_zpid/

     

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  • Tue, Jan 21, 2020 - 11:47am

    Reply to #18
    VTGothic

    VTGothic

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 05 2020

    Posts: 58

    11+

    Organizing on a Local (Suburban Neighborhood) Level for Survival

    1.

    I would argue it is better to have friends and/or relatives with a farm than have your own. Kind of like a lake house, vacation home, or beach condo.  We’ll all move in together and do the chores and provide necessary security if things fall drastically apart.

    Better have that conversation before the SHTF. Not everyone with a farm is thinking they’re the resource du jour for whomever decides “times are hard enough now I think I’ll go hang with cousin Bob or ex-neighbor Sandra.” Generally, those who want to extract goods from a Common Resource need to determine, first, that they have rights to that resource, and, second, at what cost. If you’re not contributing to growing the wheat and grinding it and baking the bread, it’s pretty presumptuous to expect to show up to eat when it comes out of the oven, on just a promise to help produce the next loaf. (“Little Red Hen.” Remember?) This is a conversation I have had with my grown kids and have prepared for, accordingly. I don’t anticipate taking in many strangers, or any old neighbors from my suburban days. I do anticipate helping less prepared neighbors scale up, building local resiliency and community.

    2.

     If we are talking immediate industrial collapse with no ATM’s, no grocery stores, and no gas stations then even a Mormon storage of a years worth of food will be a dicey survival prospect.

    The point of a stored supply of food is to make survival possible for that year, while getting the crops in and out – or to supplement grown food for that year while scaling up to fill the increased number of mouths at your table. Or to keep everyone alive in bad growing years. Yes, it’s dicey, especially in the city or suburbs, but it provides better odds than no food storage and no garden, right?

    3.

    Neighborhood localism will not take hold until unemployment climbs markedly.  Banking failure is going to give us a new monetary system one fine day and promises of repayment and pensions will be re-evaluated.  I will be poorer but I would rather rely on the people I know and stay put.  A neighborhood organization can negotiate with the city powers that be (Police, Utilities, Sanitation) for essentials.

    I’m a big fan of localism. The question is always: what do you bring to the table when the chips are down and everyone is worried about survival? Those who cannot add anything are a resource drain. A community with enough resources may be able to afford to carry such persons – and certainly a community will have compassion for those who are mentally or physically diminished, as long as possible – but the able-bodied will/should be expected to contribute to building up the Common Resource if they intend to withdraw from it. A coordinated suburb can grow a lot of food by taking down fences between houses and opening up common ground to grow both plants and animals. But somebody needs to know how to do that, and whoever does is going to be the proverbial one-eyed man in the land of the blind, with the power that goes with it. People of good intent ought develop knowledge and skills to be that “man”, or one of the leadership corps, in order to set the humane tone that is too easily lost when people become desperate.

    I would not bank on the ‘burbs of the US functioning as caringly as South American cities. We have further to fall, from our high place on the hog, and therefore greater fear – and we seem to be coming apart more than pulling together these days. I expect some communities will unite and do quite well, and others will fracture and become oppositional. The difference is going to be early leadership; again, that goes to whomever is best prepared to help lead the community into a survival discipline – and it’s inevitably going to require defining who is “in” the group and who “out.” There is no way your suburb is going to be able to help 200,000 urbanites who head your way looking for something to eat, or for water if the highrise’s power goes out.

    Because the circumstances of a decline are so variable, and unknown ahead, I wouldn’t assume police, sanitation, water, electricity, heating fuel, medical care, or food will be available – or available as needed, or at costs the community can afford. It’s at least worth the thought exercise to envision some substitutes or work-arounds. Ideally with neighbors if the plan is to work together in a decline. (This is also a good way to suss out who is already thinking about preparedness and who thinks you’re nutz.)

    The 5 core foods you need to know how to produce in order to provide yourself all of the protein, vitamins, enzymes, and minerals required to keep yourself alive are: corn, beans, potatoes, squash, and eggs. (See: Deppe, “The Resilient Gardner.”) It is my opinion that everyone ought to at least learn how to grow those without outside inputs, and learn to keep them going without returning to a store for either seed or pullets. That’s minimal resiliency. Without such ability, I don’t think a person is in any meaningful way either resilient or free. It’s much better to learn how before survival depends upon getting it right.

    Add to that ability the “Mormon storage of a years worth of food” and survival odds go up at least a few notches. And even if our future never devolves into an apocalyptic nightmare, as the economy fades and resources go with it, being able to produce core essentials reduces stress and cost, smoothing out economic and resource blips and gaps, while buying time to learn and scale.

     

     

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  • Tue, Jan 21, 2020 - 1:42pm

    #21

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 2143

    8+

    Sharing and working together.....

    A common theme of many collapse novels is the imperative to “share resources” and “all work together” initiated by those without resources.  Those without preparations are suddenly drawn to the humanitarian values of “community,” “teamwork,” and “kindness” and “Christian charity,” whereby the resources of those who have prepared are to be redistributed “to everyone, more fairly.”  This goes over poorly.

    Another gambit is the formation of a committee which claims for itself “the legitimate governmental authority” over the distribution of resources and attempts to confiscate by force the resources of the prepared.

    Without the rule of law and the ability to enforce property rights, something is not yours unless you have the power to hold it.

    I’m currently indoors on a cold New England day with a temperature in the low 20s.  Firewood will be a life and death resource worth guarding/stealing in a world without electricity and natural gas.

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  • Tue, Jan 21, 2020 - 4:33pm

    Reply to #21
    robie robinson

    robie robinson

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Aug 25 2009

    Posts: 932

    3+

    Blessed are those...

    ….that have. More blessed are those that have,and have miles of neighbors about who are fluent in all sorts of defenses.

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  • Tue, Jan 21, 2020 - 5:19pm

    #22

    Oliveoilguy

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jun 29 2012

    Posts: 618

    7+

    Wealth and resource redistribution

    Can’t help but see parallels between the micro society of the suburban neighborhood and our Nation. (USA). There is a lot of talk nationally about how “you didn’t build it” or you didn’t earn it through your hard work. The latest was something like “no one ever makes a billion  dollars. You take a billion dollars” (AOC ).  A billion is a high threshold, but in a collapsed society a pile of firewood might look like a billion dollars…….therefore justifying redistribution in the minds of the less fortunate or less industrious.  In societies with character and morals and rule of law it is called theft.

    P

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  • Tue, Jan 21, 2020 - 10:03pm

    #23
    cicerone

    cicerone

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 22 2019

    Posts: 12

    3+

    History Rhymes

    Historically speaking, the best location varies depending on the severity and nature of the collapse.

    In the case of Venezuela, which is pretty much a worst case scenario, an individual family might be better off laying low in Caracas or leaving the country, unless you’re cool with raw subsistence farming and foreign boots in your homestead: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/13/world/americas/Venezuela-collapse-Maduro.html

    In the case of a deep long term economic crisis like Greece, where living is rough but basic society remains intact, the farming life offers hope: https://www.dw.com/en/young-greeks-return-to-the-land/a-15881474

    During the Soviet collapse and beyond, the Russian Dacha model offers a hedge: one foot in the city, one in the country. Note the level of security, but also the community nature of the dacha system: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o6qPXD4g6

    No matter where I look historically, I just can’t find any evidence of the Golden Horde thesis. Nor of rural homesteads as a viable strategy, unless they’re connected to some larger social reality. Seems like it’s about diverse communities and pretty large ones at that. Communities that can defend themselves, have a reason to exist relative to other large groups, and that can offer a sense of identity and hope to get through hard times. Got Kurdistan?

    As a counter example, Joel Skousen offers, on the front page of his website, Santa Rosa, CA, as a medium size metro that will fare well. It happens to be my hometown. It looks good on paper but… historically, Santa Rosa was an agricultural hub for Sonoma County, which in turn served the greater San Francisco Bay Area. It grew into the largest city in Sonoma County but remains firmly tethered to the Bay Area.

    On its own, Sonoma County offered me nothing but low wage jobs, social dysfunction (gangs, meth, inequality) and 99% car dependent sprawl. It’s a beautiful area and if you have outside money it’s a nice life in the Wine Country bubble, but in its current form it’s very dependent on the larger state to survive.

    And if you’re thinking that Boise or New Hampshire or wherever is just completely different because of the independent/conservative spirit of the people, well, I hope you’re right. And I do hope that if SHTF, Idaho becomes the Irish monastery equivalent, protecting Western Civ on the hostile frontier. But you have to ask yourself, why wasn’t the Mountain West a choice spot in the best of times? In times of turmoil, does a life well lived mean fleeing to Constaninople or standing your ground in Londinium? What kind of community is worth dying for? These are things that I’m interested in rather than hypothetical scenarios and prepper fantasies.

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  • Wed, Jan 22, 2020 - 7:42pm

    Reply to #15

    Barbara

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 15 2009

    Posts: 127

    1+

    Rome

    You are correct, Rome was not racist in the modern sense.  I was referring to the institutionalization of racism, sexism and hereditary privilege a thousand years after the fall of Rome.

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  • Fri, Jan 24, 2020 - 5:01am

    #24
    ex-tex

    ex-tex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 15 2018

    Posts: 4

    3+

    Staying put.

    Have lurked for a while, this post seemed like a good place to finally chime in.

    The TL; DR version is that while strategic relocation might make sense for some folks, it does not for my wife and me. We will make our stand where we are.
    —————————
    We are 60ish and live in a small town in what’s sometimes called the banana belt of Canada. Our town has many amenities: hardware store; post office; a pharmacy; town and provincial office; an HVAC installation/repair firm; lumberyard; five restaurants (which includes Tim Horton’s); two lawyers and a chartered accountant, a Carnegie library; two car repair shops; a grocery store; two barbers; two corner stores; a dentist, a medical clinic, a butcher, a good CSA . . . it’s a lively little town. Everything except the CSA and lumberyard is a 5 to 15 minute walk away. Will our town always have these amenities? It’s impossible to say.

    We often (no, not always) patronize our local stores even though the retail cost is more than we’d pay in the nearby larger towns. Unlike many people I count the $ of gasoline and my time (using my salary broken down to an hourly wage) against the dollar savings of buying in the next town over. It’s frequently it’s a wash.

    There’s a pleasant semi-natural walk along the border between a riverside bush and an open field. Two larger towns with more amenities (like an emerg room) are a 15-20 minute drive away.

    Our home is long since paid off. It’s tiny by most standards – <800 square feet. Not much to heat, cool, and clean. We have a small garden. Of course the garden only supplements what we buy. While right now we have too much shade to have a better garden we expect to improve that by taking down some trees.

    Despite the gardens’ size and the shade we got a decent crop of tomatoes last year. Also got jalapenos, rhubarb, lettuce, tomatillos, a bit of celery and Swiss Chard, some asparagus, haskap, red- and black-currants, and strawberries. We harvested our last bit of lettuce last week, largely because our winter has been very mild.

    We plan to stay in our humble little house until we can’t. To that end we expect to make our house more accessible and friendly for us as we age. Two examples: building ramps up to our entries, and replacing our whirlpool tub with a low-curbed shower stall, replacing our shingle roof with a steel one, collecting even more rainwater for irrigating our garden. And when we can’t stay here . . . we will see.

    Our life horizon is shorter than that of many folks. The overwhelming majority of our capital – physical, financial, emotional, spiritual – is invested here. We know our, our neighbour’s, our community’s, strengths and weaknesses. This is our home. We have no desire to relocate to a place that may – or may not! – better help us ride out whatever the future brings. So we will stay.

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  • Fri, Jan 24, 2020 - 5:18am

    #25

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 2143

    Ex-tex, nice set up!

    Damn.  I am quite envious of your setting.  It sounds to me like you are already in a prepper’s dream house and town.  I’m envious.

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  • Mon, Jan 27, 2020 - 4:59pm

    #26
    ex-tex

    ex-tex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 15 2018

    Posts: 4

    Thank you sand puppy

    Thanks for your kind comments! While it may or may not be a dream house and location, it is ours and we are happy here.

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