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    Grim Milestone: 100k+ US Coronavirus Deaths

    And over 350,000 worldwide
    by Adam Taggart

    Wednesday, May 27, 2020, 8:18 AM

On Tuesday, cumulative US deaths from covid-19 crossed above 100,000. The worldwide casualties (that we know of) now exceed 350,000.

Whether or not we as a society can agree on the health risks of covid-19 or whether the national lockdowns it has triggered are worth the resulting economic damage, hopefully we can all agree that the global death toll from the pandemic is tragic.

Meanwhile, battle lines are being drawn between those arguing for vigilance against a second infection wave and those skeptical of the severity of the virus and the rationale for curtailing economic activity and personal freedom.

We’re entering a tense time when this discord and friction will increasingly manifest in arguments, shaming, mass demonstrations, and open resistance.

More than ever, it will be important to keep a level head and seek out unbiased sources that focus on data vs pushing a narrative or inflaming emotions.

We here at PeakProsperity.com will keep doing our best to serve as such a trusted source.

And don’t forget to get your free download of Peak Prosperity’s book Prosper!. Given its relevance to preparing for any kind of crisis, pandemic or otherwise, Chris and I are now making it available to the world for free during the covid-19 lockdown.

To download your free copy, click here.
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74 Comments

  • Wed, May 27, 2020 - 8:49am

    #1
    Penguin Will

    Penguin Will

    Status: Member

    Joined: Aug 20 2019

    Posts: 50

    4+

    Penguin Will said:

    I hope you are wrong Chris.... but I think you are probably not.

    I can't speak for anyone else but the shaming is getting old. For me anyway. Hell, I don't even have much of a digital footprint (linkedin and a few forums) and I am tired of hearing it. It's like I'm in grade school again only now I'm surrounded by a bunch of prudes and tattletales holding megaphones.

    One good thing: Maybe all of these trouble makers will be too busy with online preening to cause much damage? :p

    I know, wishful thinking.

    Will

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  • Wed, May 27, 2020 - 9:22am

    #2

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 2409

    13+

    The question that people don't want you to answer

    “You can tell you’ve found a really interesting question when no one wants you to answer it.”  

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  • Wed, May 27, 2020 - 10:29am

    #3
    vshelford

    vshelford

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 13 2014

    Posts: 158

    2+

    Re varioius studies

    Many videos back, Chris talked about how the CDC's own assessment of HCQ (from 2017) was very favourable, and he had a rather telling comparison assessment of the dangers of aspirin, but I can't find either on the CDC site.  I don't know if they've been taken down or I'm just clueless at finding them, but if Chris still had the screen shots of them, could he make them available again?  And also, I seem to remember way back when the first inklings of HCQ being useful came up, it was because some country, I think it was Italy, had noticed that some huge number of lupus patients who were already on HCQ had a very much lower CFR with COV19, as well as generally much milder cases.  I seem to remember that this prompted some studies at the time.  But again, I can't find reference to them in any searches, so possibly my memory is wrong in some key points?  Can anyone help?  I'd really like to get some positive data accumulated to take to my own doctor and clinic here.  I'm sorry - not trying to get out of doing the work - it's just possible my (lousy) memory has skewed my search criteria.

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  • Wed, May 27, 2020 - 11:20am

    #4
    PeakProsperityAccount

    PeakProsperityAccount

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    Joined: Apr 11 2020

    Posts: 3

    5+

    A Hard Thing to Do

    I wanted to compliment Chris for stepping down with the amount of videos he is producing. A long-thought hard decision, but one that needed to be made. When your loved ones, your other work, and your health is suffering, letting go of something we love is both painful and revealing. And this is not the time to weaken our immune system.

    Chris' timeouts have been beneficial for me as well: no information overload, time to digest his latest video, and continuing my own research while I navigate a sea of conflicting information. As a rabid sceptic, I take everything with a grain of salt (yes, even what Chris says), keep an open mind, look at all sides. It's all about the data.

    If anything, I've discovered that Chris is far more qualified to discuss this topic than he admits: he has the schooling, consulting, and pharmaceutical experience. Maybe time to be a little less modest about what you bring to the table when confronted with people not even willing to have a discussion.

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  • Wed, May 27, 2020 - 11:23am

    #5
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 737

    19+

    The Red Scare

    As a child we used to have drills at school where we had to hide under our desks. The Red Scare was everywhere. There were bomb shelters in every neighborhood.

    People lost jobs because they were suspected of being RED ot PINKO

    Very few propaganda narratives have gotten to such a fever pitch. (9/11, The Iraq war come to mind). HCQ is now the scourge of civilization. take it and you will die. Doctors can lose their license for prescribing it. Pharmacists can deny filling prescriptions. HCQ prescriptions must be accompanied with a reason for prescribing.

    The media campaign is ubiquitous, controlled and relentless. Once well respected medical journals are now corrupted and research is not to be trusted. Researchers design studies destined to prove failure instead of finding the truth.

    Five months ago HCQ was one of the safest drugs on the planet. Anyone could have gotten a prescription for it no questions asked. It is now demonized. It was on the WHO list of essential medicines.

    The doctor patient relationship is no more. It has been replaced by the state/bureaucrat relationship which is a one way relationship of absolute control. It has taken the power to practice medicine out of the hands of physicians once and for all. The state now has declared it has complete dominion over our bodies. We will be tested / traced and issued or denied certificates of immunity. You don't have to have one except if you want to fly, get on a train or any other form of public transportation. You will need it to get into sporting events, school, any and all public buildings. Etc., Etc.,Etc..

    Land of the free home of the brave new world.

    The Amerikaan Dream because you had to be asleep to believe it.

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  • Wed, May 27, 2020 - 12:03pm

    #6
    taz1999

    taz1999

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    I weep for my country (US)

    Infowars is touting a Texas bar owner who's barring anyone wearing a mask from entering.  Well it's his business.  The weepy part is looking at the comments where everyone is cheering "no masks".  Bunch of posturing and 0 common sense.  A person wearing a mask is no affront to your personal liberty and may be saving your life.

    I guess a futile and stupid gesture needs to be done on someone's part; and Texans are just the guys to do it.  Let's go... y'all

    I came across several articles explaining that wearing a mask might de-humanize (I guess self esteem) you.  Emphasizing that certain people with conditions should not wear a mask (duh) however, subtext implying that no one should wear them.  and this little jewel:

    " if worn for several hours. When a person is infected with a respiratory virus, they will expel some of the virus with each breath. If they are wearing a mask, especially an N95 mask or other tightly fitting mask, they will be constantly rebreathing the viruses, raising the concentration of the virus in the lungs and the nasal passages."  As I'm wont, I'll paraphrase: When a person is infected with a respiratory virus, they will expel some of the virus with each breath which is why I'm wearing a mask.  I'll work on clearing the virus in my garden.

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  • Wed, May 27, 2020 - 12:28pm

    davefairtex

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    Posts: 2134

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    50 most dangerous drugs

    I found this when looking for a reference talked about on a certain news network:

    https://www.nbc26.com/news/national/these-are-the-50-most-dangerous-drugs-on-the-market

    Aspirin is #44, Acetaminophen is #39.

    HCQ, naturally, isn't on the list, which was constructed by in 2016.

    "The Internet Is Forever"

    BTW, if you want to look for references which you believe have been deleted, archive.org is your friend.  Also known as "the wayback machine."

    https://archive.org/

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  • Wed, May 27, 2020 - 12:55pm

    #8
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Lancet Study (lol) a Doc's take

    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1264032084944814082.html

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  • Wed, May 27, 2020 - 1:56pm

    john rob

    john rob

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    john rob said:

    It might have been only 38 were give HCQ with 3 dying in the Texas nursing home.

    Some recent articles.

     

    https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/texas-city-nursing-home-doc-unproven-trump-drug-15270476.php

     

    https://www.galvnews.com/news/free/article_c0084ebc-b879-55fa-9eca-1b2f8ba98ee2.html

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  • Wed, May 27, 2020 - 3:25pm

    Quercus bicolor

    Status: Silver Member

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    Posts: 403

    The WHO, not the CDC

    Chris referred to a meta-analysis by the WHO that combined lots of research on HCQ usage and results in Africa.  You are correct about the year, 2017.

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  • Wed, May 27, 2020 - 3:40pm

    #11
    karenchantal

    karenchantal

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    Antibody Test

    I just realized, I might have had covid hands a few weeks ago.  So I am getting the antibody test in the morning.

    I think I get an exam and grilling.

    But I will let yall know the procedure when I am done.  I am a bit nervous they will want to give me the covid test also.  I am scared of a nasal swab that reaches to my brain.  Okay, it is not that bad, but it looks scary.

    Karen

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  • Wed, May 27, 2020 - 3:56pm

    #12
    Hladini

    Hladini

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    A new study for Chris

    Found another study embedded in a zerohedge article that shows measuring virus content in the sewage peaks three days before the local hospitals peak.  Not sure if 3 days notice of a peak offers any help, but some people think this is important information.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/here-best-advance-indicator-if-second-wave-coronavirus-coming

     

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  • Wed, May 27, 2020 - 8:44pm

    James

    James

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    The Red Scare

    Excellent Post. In case you missed it check out Inoculated. Chilling.

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  • Wed, May 27, 2020 - 9:04pm

    #14

    gallantfarms

    Status: Member

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    Where we are heading?

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  • Wed, May 27, 2020 - 9:27pm

    #15

    dtrammel

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    CDC Is Playing More Politics

    Death rates must be lower so we can open the economy (even if the numbers put out are false.)

    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/stephaniemlee/coronavirus-cdc-infection-fatality-rate

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  • Wed, May 27, 2020 - 9:34pm

    #16

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

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    More Fudged Numbers?

    If you own an airline, you can't have people worried about flying, can you?

    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/stephaniemlee/stanford-coronavirus-neeleman-ioannidis-whistleblower

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  • Wed, May 27, 2020 - 10:34pm

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

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    buzzfeed politics

    dtrammel-

    I'm going to suggest that your source is...hopelessly political.  The photo in the story of the body bags placed by protesters in front of the white house, each carefully labeled "Trump Covid Death", supports this thesis of mine.

    Here's my counter-thesis:

    Your "effective IFR" depends on the policy you use to deal with the virus.

    If you don't protect the vulnerable, death rates go up.

    If you do protect the vulnerable, death rates drop.

    What do I mean by this?  My very first recommendation: don't send COVID-positive patients into nursing homes - which is what they did in New York - which is just like dropping a bunch of foxes right into the hen house, and then saying "the Hen Fatality Rate is really high!"

    "My gosh the IFR in New York was awful.  You guys must be suppressing data from everywhere else."

    No.  Most likely, everywhere else, they didn't send COVID-positive patients into nursing homes.

    Of course if you are a reporter, and you really want to spin every COVID death as a "Trump Covid Death", such nuances will almost certainly escape you.

    I suppose the only real way to tell what the "actual IFR" is, is to execute an RCT - infecting a randomized cross section of the country, and seeing how many people die - without treatment, mind you.  Otherwise, an effective treatment might unfairly skew IFR.  So would protecting the vulnerable.  So would taking vitamins.  And exercise.  And presumably a positive mental attitude which helps the immune system.  And having a reasonable BMI.  So might getting a lower initial dose (via a mask).

    Takeaway: IFR is mutable.  It isn't a constant.  A lot of things can wang it around.

    And I think your source is too lame to notice these nuances because they want to blame Trump for every single COVID death.

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  • Wed, May 27, 2020 - 11:58pm

    #18

    dtrammel

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    Posts: 804

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    Everyone has biases

    Dave I like most of your posts, you have a insightful way of looking at things, but you have at times a bias for minimal effects of this virus.

    That said, both sides spin the news and numbers to favor their agendas. I'm aware of that but lack the expertise to analysis their posts in depth. That's why I post them here, so those of you who have expertise can give the rest of us a clearer and more honest appraisal of the actual facts.

    The CDC is clearly under tremendous pressure to minimize the numbers by this Administration. If they are doing it, I'd like to know. The Tribe here seems to approach data in an unbiased way, I'd like to see that continue.

    The one thing this site has taught me, is that CFRs/IFRs are the numbers no one agrees on.

    Just because a source has political bias, doesn't always mean their facts are wrong.

    And do you not think that money and donors affect the way researchers report their data?

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 12:02am

    #19
    nordicjack

    nordicjack

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    I think its actual murder - nothing less

    I am shocked at how many people participate in the trashing of HCQ as a treatment.  Everyone is on board.. They are giving this to near death people as a hail mary, and they are not seeing results and using this as the be all - I am uncertain, why they have not reviewed data from other countries" just US garbage studies"  on hail mary use'.  I understand the people with conflict of interest.  But media and drs should not be conflicted. The who and the FDA  etc.. all have lots to gain on expensive cures.   In my book if you represent a study to prove something , that is not correct knowingly killing people , its murder .  I do not see it another way.. But murder is being committed. Its very hard to watch this many people participate in this act.

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 12:23am

    #20
    Grover

    Grover

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    Joined: Feb 15 2011

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    Need New Strategies

    I understand the theory behind social distancing and wearing a mask. Each reduce the chances of getting infected while reducing the inoculum levels. I wear an N95 mask out in public while shopping. Some stores require it. Some don't.

    The original goal for these strategies was to limit the number of casualties in the ICU so hospitals don't get overwhelmed. Since then, the goal posts have been moved. Now, we have to keep the infections below a certain level. It is quite ironic that changeable message signs on the freeway say, "STAY SAFE. STAY HOME."

    The hope is that a vaccine will come along and save us all from this disease. Unfortunately, there has never been an effective vaccine for any coronavirus. That's why the common cold is so common. Because of potential antibody dependent enhancement (ADE), a vaccine might even set the receiver up for a worse "second" infection the first and subsequent times.

    I've accepted the fact that sooner or later, I'll get infected with one or more strains of this coronavirus. It may even happen multiple times since coronaviruses mutate so readily to avoid immune system detection. Even with a 90% reduction of infection risk (by wearing a mask and social distancing,) I'll get the virus if I don't die of something else first.

    The current strategy is to keep us isolated (lockdown) so we can't be close enough to transmit the virus. Shutting down the economy is all well and good as long as we are all self sufficient and debt free. Since that pertains to close to 0% of the population, the strategy of staying home to avoid getting infected is quite unsustainable. We need to look at other strategies to stay well after infection.

    Hydroxychloroquine + Z Pack + zinc has been used effectively by doctors around the world. It works best when given early. It likely has effective prophylactic benefits so the user never gets an infection. This drug has been around for ~70 years and has been deemed safe for most people. Unfortunately, it is off patent and big Pharma can't make enough money off it to keep the lights on. That makes them adversaries to this treatment strategy. They have tried to create studies so those studies would fail, they have ramped up the lobbying effort as well, and as a result, elected officials (who are beholden to big Pharma campaign contributions) have put roadblocks up to keep doctors from effectively prescribing and patients from being cured by this treatment.

    Meanwhile, the lapdog media who is beholden to big Pharma advertising dollars will not run any stories that would offend big Pharma. If you've watched any commercial television lately, you know how many commercials big Pharma runs.

    My wife tells me that big Pharma tried to patent vitamins in the '50s / '60s. They were prevented from doing so because vitamins are already nature's product. Since then, big Pharma has been pooh-poohing the benefits of vitamins. Why is it that cold season usually subsides when summer hits and we're out in the sun more - making vitamin D? With adequate levels of vitamins and minerals, the body can do what it does to keep us healthy.

    Then, there are other treatments to consider. I'm a fan of ionic/colloidal silver. It is a natural bactericide, fungicide, and virucide, yet it is safe for multicell creatures like us. Will it ever get studied as a potential cure by big Pharma? Again, they can't patent it. There's no money in it for them. Instead, expect them to trot out that there isn't any proof that it works along with the argyria fear (turning permanently gray blue from taking too much.) As long as the public is too afraid to even consider it, they win.

    There are lots of other potential natural curative agents. Quercetin and artemesin come to mind. What about elderberry syrup? Unfortunately, without honest studies to test these, we're on our own.

    Grover

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 12:40am

    davefairtex

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    Posts: 2134

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    political bias

    dtrammel-

    Well, I didn't only suggest bias, I also claimed that their facts weren't right.  And I laid out a thesis as to why their facts weren't right.  And I claimed that their political bias basically motivated them to see things that way.

    Your source was more or less suggesting that NY was "the right IFR", and that everywhere else, the CDC was lying or covering it up - presumably because of #notmypresident.

    I responded to this suggesting that - no - IFR depends a lot on the response, and on the makeup of the community infected.  Dropping in a bunch of COVID foxes into a nursing home henhouse will greatly increase the reported IFR.

    Conversely, if you protect the nursing homes, the reported IFR will drop.

    Which IFR is correct?  They both are correct.  If you are stupid, you will have a high IFR.  If you are smarter, your IFR will be lower.

    So - how about my thesis?  Which IFR should we select as representative as to the risk to society?  The one where the response was stupid, or the one where the response was smart?

    Of course its not that simple - but neither is the explanation that the CDC is lying about the places that did well.

    As to my bias - I live in an area that did well.  I'm very plugged into the healthcare community here.  The good numbers here aren't about lying or coverups - although many here think that did happen.  My contacts (with access, and no motivation to lie to me) say no: numbers are roughly accurate.  It is possible to do well.  That's why I have the bias - this has been my experience.  Major city, lots of density, broad spectrum of rich & poor.  We did well.  We did have the aid of warm weather, but a good result is possible.  I've seen it with my own eyes.  Of course, YMMV.

    But - you can't be stupid and send infected patients into nursing homes and expect a happy result.  Of course, article didn't address that one.  I wonder why that is?

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 12:55am

    davefairtex

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    Posts: 2134

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    and what he said too

    Once again Grover says what I'm thinking, but so much more nicely.  🙂

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 1:50am

    French connexion

    French connexion

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    French connexion said:

    I confirm what you said about doctors. I had to see my doctor GP recently  to renew my heart medication. There was an intern present for training purposes. I asked my doctor if she could prescribe HCQ on a prophylaxis basis - when travel resumes I would like protection for airplane travel. The "discussion" which insued was more of a shouting match - in the end I stopped as I realized it was hopeless. The intern took me aside examined my heart and blood pressure - to which I said - normally with the medication my blood pressure is very low - we both chuckled.

    The pharmacist same story - he is a friend so there was no arguing.

    I take "huiles essentiels" natural oils: Ravintsara, Laurier Noble, Eucalyputus Radiata   two drops R, one drop LN, one drop ER under the tongue. Leave in your mouth - salivate - swallow. Don't eat or drink for 15 or 20 minutes.

    think about it - this virus is also "fragile" - if soap and water are a good defense for your hands - and smokers seem to be protected also - what could a natural anti-septic do for you?

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 3:24am

    #24
    peeterko

    peeterko

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    HCQ made illegal in Europe: This is massmurder.

    Hi Chris,
    End of January I stumbled into your first Corona virus video’s.
    Your video’s have inspired me to prepare long before the toilet paper stampede and the forced lock downs.
    I have also seen the effects of masks and testing on the number of cases and deaths and can confirm this with my own experience. As a Belgian national that migrated to Luxemburg I can compare both countries very well.
    Belgium with the worst number of deaths per million, both based on reported deaths and on excess death numbers, has one of the lowest numbers in testing and people don’t not wear masks. This is largely caused by virologist Marc Van Ranst, the MSM favorite. He is famous for messages like this: “Its only the flu”, “tourist returning from Northern Italy don’t need testing” (End Feb). “Masks don’t work. They are even dangerous for the general public”, "testing is useless" (he is head of the reference test lab in Belgium!)
    Luxemburg on the contrary wearing masks in public is mandatory except in open nature and people actually comply. The government provided everybody with 5 free chirurgical masks per inhabitant as early as march and has distributed 50 more masks per inhabitant last week to support the reopening of the economy. In supermarkets and gasstations masks are abundantly available. Luxemburg has already tested 12% of its population and, just like Iceland, plans to have 100% of the population tested by the end of June. Using this testing they are finding 4 asymptomatic cases per 1000 PCR tests and can quarantine those infected.
    I would like to give you my personal view of what is currently happening in Europe.
    Yesterday was really insane. On one day after an announcement of the WHO that it is stopping trials with HCQ, several European countries, Germany, France, Italy, Belgium and Luxemburg to name a few. suddenly are making the use of HCQ for COVID treatments illegal.
    The largest clinical test of HCQ in Marseille (France) with almost 4000 patients and great results is simply shut down based on the WHO guidance: https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/early-diagnosis-and-management-of-covid-19-patients-a-real-life-cohort-study-of-3737-patients-marseille-france/
    I am under the impression that Big Pharma and the Bill and Melinda Gates Institute are behind this shutting this down, but have found no hard proof for this. They won’t allow a cheap effective drug to appear because that makes the pandemic less deathly. That is not what you want to hear when you are investing all this money in the development of expensive cures like Remdesivir and vaccins that you can sell to billions doses of. Interesting fact is also that according to director of IHU Marseille most clinical studies have good results with HCQ and all big-data studies claim bad results. The statical likelihood for this to be a coincidence is p=0.006. The overview table can be seen at 9:00 in this video
    It becomes more and more clear that this whole pandemic is wanted by certain groups in society. They don't care about human life and they don’t care about the economy.
    Thanks for the good work. It really has helped me.

     

    Koen Peeters

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 3:48am

    #25

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2134

    6+

    New York - vs Everywhere Else

    Ok, maybe not everywhere else.  But you get the idea.

    Something bad definitely happened in New York.

    But not every place is New York.

     

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 5:20am

    #26
    cwg

    cwg

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 17 2016

    Posts: 7

    No Test, Trace or Masks and Curve Flattening ??

    Please Help me understand why this isn't going exponential ?

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 6:29am

    Ian B

    Ian B

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 19 2018

    Posts: 2

    5+

    archive.org - Access Restricted

    Dave. I have never heard of archive.org before so I thought I’d take a look. Safari immediately came back with: “Safari cannot open this page because the network connection was lost” ??

    So I typed the URL in directly. Guess what - I was redirected to my network provider with the message: “This content is locked” !!

    How far do the tentacles go?

     

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 6:37am

    #28
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 737

    2+

    The Blue Scare

    They are not hiding it. The Carolina blue, the powder blue The UNNWO BLUE is here and is taking over not only a country near you it is taking over every country near you around you and under you. There will be no escape. There is no habitable place on the planet where the NWO will not be. Wrap your head around that.

    You are no longer a deplorable, you are now nonessential and dispensable. All the big players you have been hearing about have a plan. It is being implemented at warp speed. The plan goes back over 100 years and is one of the main tenets of the Rockefeller Foundation.

    It is game over.

    The motto is "Let's take  our planet back" ??????????????

    Who (no pun intended) are the people taking back the planet and just who are they taking it back from???????

    https://unnwo.org/

     

    "
    The United Nations New World Order Project is a global, high-level initiative founded in 2008 to advance a new economic paradigm, a new political order, and more broadly, a new world order for humankind, which achieves the UN’s Global Goals for Sustainable Development by 2030, and the happiness, well-being, and freedom of all life on Earth by 2050."
    A new economic paradigm?

    Just what is this new economic paradigm?
    Happytalism

    Happytalism is a new economic paradigm which places happiness, well-being, and freedom at the center of human development models, systems, and all life.

     

    Happytalism?  Whatever drugs they are on I don't want any part of. It is being coordinated globally through the UN. BTW The Rockefellers donated the land the UN sits on in NYC.

    RESIST

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSgk44BE67c&feature=youtu.be

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 7:39am

    #29

    000

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Dec 10 2013

    Posts: 171

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    The Poor & Working Class Always Pay The Piper (the fifth turning)

    "...The state health department also looked at the question of who is getting sick enough to go to the hospital. It surveyed over 100 hospitals across the state in early May and learned that four in five incoming patients were retired or unemployed, most had been sheltering at home, and nearly all had other underlying health conditions. Information on those who are sick but not hospitalized has been harder to come by. The city and state are hiring thousands of the disease detectives known as contact tracers, but they have not yet begun work. The New York Times talked to doctors and hospital administrators, public-health officials, immigrant groups and patients themselves. Their answers varied, but they painted a collective portrait of those who are still getting sick. Workers on the front lines and their families are still getting hit hard. People who spend hours every workday around strangers naturally have more chances to get exposed to the virus, doctors said. “The majority of people, it’s health care workers, it’s M.T.A. workers, it’s postal workers,” Dr. Sylvie De Souza, chief of the emergency department at the Brooklyn Hospital Center, said in an interview in mid-May. “As opposed to before, it seemed to be people out in the community, and of course a lot of the nursing home patients — but almost all of them have died.” ..."

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 8:40am

    #30
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    The Bloodiest Hands in America

    Why New York? Did Cuomo intentionally kill thousands? Why send sick people back to nursing homes? Was it incompetence?

    https://americanconsequences.com/are-these-the-bloodiest-hands-in-america/

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 9:16am

    davefairtex

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    nursing home blunder

    Well, I don't think it was deliberate.  I think it was just a blunder.  It was compounded by the fact they kept the order in place way, way too long.  We should probably have hearings on it, figure out what went wrong, why 10,000 people died.

    But we won't.  For Team Blue, Cuomo can do no wrong.  And it is an extremely political time right now, so there will be no introspection.

    This is why I find it a little ... annoying when buzzfeed says these are all Trump Covid Deaths.  No introspection at all.

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 9:30am

    #32
    Mary59

    Mary59

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    Chlorogate and Panama Guinea Pig (PGP) Update

    Morning All

    Well if something was to define "storm in a teacup" to a "T", then "Chlorogate" would be it.

    The thing is, this could all just be considered another episode, in an MSM series of the fake reality show "Would the real reality, please stand up", except for one thing.  People. Are. Dying.

    To me, Chlorogate pretty much proves some  -behind the curtain - things are indeed going down, along with revealing the iron-clad, and shadowed connections of  the big pharm (many) /(some) big money / (parts of ) government liaison.

    Many G7 (mostly) states have been changing tunes almost daily, citing a wavering rif raf of "studies" based on cherry picked/random looking frameworks,  and statistics derived from trash heaps of logic.  Many G7 (mostly) governments are censoring this and promoting that, all the while bleeting "mis and even dis- information" of anything not to 'code', as they themselves flail about in rocky seas of action, and wind vane planning, all the while remaining within absolute dolrums of logical inquiry and robust research.

    Lawd it makes one tired.   It is all just so murky and tangled.

    On to those who read, think and act for themselves - keenly heeding PP's and others advice along the way,  -I report from Panama.

    - Nine of us, known as the PGP's -  Panama Guinea Pigs  -have been on hydroxy choloroquine once a week, since February.  As I said before in another post, in the UN everyone was on it who worked in malarial countries, for years -and that was the old stuff chloroquine phosphate...They would swig it down with beers even. I never heard of anyone having issues at all.  In most countries prescriptions were not needed. I understand many Lupus and Arthritis patients have also used HCQ regularly for years.

    Of course, anyone taking any other prescription needs to check with a doctor and one need heed the precautionary statements enclosed and yes as with many prescription meds, there are very very rare  - yet very serious, risks.

    Now, as to those using it for  "trials" on serious patients, it seems they knew it would not work at that stage of illness and set it up to fail.  Not only fail, but look dangerous.  They gave themselves away at that point when they started to make chloroquine appear so risky and so perilous.  Now what would the motive be for that lie?   Ummmm competition? Spoiling the plan maybe?

    Either that or all those medical scientists are not as smart or knowledgeable about pharmaceutical research and testing as this old lady here who almost failed life sciences in college, 35 years ago.  All those people involved in this witch hunt testing had at least the same access to the internet I do, so why didnt they find out the facts about HCQ also, how to use it, when to use it etc?...Why have the same FDA and WHO allowed HCQ /CP (Chloroquine Phosphate) for 70 years for children and pregnant women even I believe...

    To me their studies are like basing results on someone going into Emergency in the middle of a stroke from a blood clot.  As the person is there half dying, they give him 10 aspirins every twelve hours.  This gives the person a stomach ulcer and they die of septis.  That is a fair analogy.

    And yet, those so busy -  living their best lives  - and always moving forward - will not have time to gain enough breadth and depth of information to be able to see things more clearly with higher resolution, thus making them easily lead - docile and absorptive while dreaming into the azure beauty of Anderson Cooper's eyes.

    Even though I am not American, I am of the Americas (Canada, Jamaica and Panama) and I love the USA, spend alot of time there and have family and friends living there.

    I just want to honour all the wonderful things America has been and still is and fight to rid it of the rot affecting the USA and so many other countries too.

     

     

     

     

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 9:31am

    #33

    sand_puppy

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    Governor Cuomo Saved New Yorkers From the Dangers of HCQ

    So, Cuomo was not so great on protecting from COVID infections and deaths, but he was RIGHT ON TOP of the charge to protect New Yorkers from the dangers of HCQ!

    We can can be grateful for this.

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 9:34am

    #34
    Grover

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    Prophylaxis

    https://bigleaguepolitics.com/indian-scientists-discover-hydroxychloroquine-treatment-prevents-covid-19-vindicating-president-trump/

    The Indian Council of Medical Research (ICMR) has discovered that ingesting hydroxychloroquine can help healthy individuals fend off the coronavirus. The fake news media has been desperate to demonize the drug while globalists like Bill Gates plot to push widespread vaccinations as the only way to end the pandemic that has shaken the world.

    The ICMR issued an advisory last week to drastically expand the use of hydroxychloroquine in an attempt to save lives throughout India. They conducted three separate studies to come to their conclusion that taking hydroxychloroquine can prevent coronavirus. The ICMR is now encouraging essential workers such as cops, paramilitary, surveillance staff, and medical personnel to take hydroxychloroquine as “preventive therapy.”

    Too bad the US medical researchers aren't allowed to do these kinds of positive HCQ studies. I'm thankful that other nations are actually more concerned for their citizens' health than for big Pharma profits. With enough of these studies being published, spillover effect may cause our ""leaders"" to acknowledge HCQ's potential.

    As far as Cuomo's boo-boo with putting SC2 infected individuals in nursing homes ... I can almost give him the benefit of the doubt. The knowledge just wasn't there at the time to say this was a horrible mistake. Now, the knowledge is available. Shipping coronavirus infected people to nursing homes (where the most susceptible population live) would be tantamount to murder.

    When politicians prohibit the use of HCQ or require positive SC2 tests before allowing pharmacies to dispense the drug, it should be viewed for what it is. They are protecting their campaign contributors (big Pharma) at the expense of their citizens' health. More people will die as a result. Is that just manslaughter or should it be considered murder?

    Grover

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 9:41am

    Jim H

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    That's an epic post Mary59 - thank you!

    You see it all so clearly... the more folks like yourself spend the time to document their own experiences and perspectives here, the more others on the fence about these synthetic narratives will start to wake up themselves.

    I particularly loved your prose.. are you a writer by chance?  I can write things that are true.. but not with as much beauty as your pen imparts;

    And yet, those so busy -  living their best lives  - and always moving forward - will not have time to gain enough breadth and depth of information to be able to see things more clearly with higher resolution, thus making them easily lead - docile and absorptive while dreaming into the azure beauty of Anderson Cooper's eyes.

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 9:53am

    #36
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Who is Bill Gates

    This is a 4 part series by James Corbett exploring who Bill Gates is and his involvement in global health. Since I never heard of anyone voting for him to be the global health czar, I find it fascinating the huge influence he has been able to buy. FYI in case you missed it his plan is to vaccinate everyone on the planet. I think it is critically important to watch this series and understand what exactly we are dealing with.

    There is no longer a connecting the dots, conspiracy theory , conversation. There is only one dot. A criminal is in charge of the WHO. This is not an accident. The WHO falls under the governance of the UN. The UN has a publicly stated agenda of a New World Order. (see my post above). Your body is no longer your own. You are now just one fragment of a human collective. Doubt that? Try to get a prescription from your doctor, for HCQ, or if you do try to get it filled. Why is Neil Ferguson able to make projections which caused almost the entire planet to go into lockdown? Who elected him?

    Why does SC2 primarily attack elderly, poor, and those with underlying conditions? Why does Bill Gates ruminate on whether it is better to use resources to treat older people or to use them for younger people?

    Watch and Think

    https://www.corbettreport.com/gates/

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 10:07am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Sorry Grover

    The knowledge wasn't there? It was here on PP.

    Everyone knew how contagious SC2 is.

    But you did say almost.

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 10:11am

    #38

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

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    Posts: 2134

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    NY Deaths - vs Everyone Else

    Sorry, last chart was confirmed cases.  This one: deaths/100k.  It is actually worse.  Notice how CA, TX and FL are basically rounding errors.

    Here I added in NJ, PA, and IL.  I think these states were the worst.  Were these all a "nursing home effect"?  I don't know.  It bet it contributed.  It probably wasn't the whole answer though.

    Remember how Cuomo said: "We are your future!  We are where  YOU!  WILL!   BE!  three weeks from now!"

    Turns out, not exactly.  In fact, it was not not even close.

    We might want to figure out why.

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 10:16am

    Jim H

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    Posts: 1190

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    Nice work Dave!

    It's nice to see you applying your data crunching skills to the pandemic data.. keep it up!

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 10:40am

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2134

    7+

    moving average win

    Thanks Jim.

    The 7 MA was the key innovation.  It really cleans up the trends, which is all we really care about.

    I take requests.  One chart is worth 1000 words.  I have looked at all this data already.  This is why I think that not opening up is the most ridiculous thing ever.  There is no "spike" happening.  If it was happening, we'd know about it already.  Take Georgia.  Scariest place in the nation.  "A Death Destination."  It is the black line at the bottom of the next chart.  It is ticking up.  Slightly.  Remember, Atlanta is in Georgia.  That's a decent-sized city, 35% african american.  Metro area ~5m people.  And yet, they managed to dodge the New York experience.  It would be interesting to know how.

    Oh.  Here's a fun fact.  Not sure if you saw it.  Did you know: Chris Cuomo, while down with SC2, supposedly took an analogue of hydroxycholoroqine?  "Banned for thee, but not for me!"  Chris just got it in another form.  Maybe you could too.

    See "potentized quinine", below.  Not medical advice!

    https://thepuristonline.com/2020/04/chris-cuomos-corona-protocol/

    2 AntiViril-3x daily (vegetable capsules with andrographis [above-ground parts], taraxcum [whole plant], lonerica japonica [flower bud])

    1 OKO-3x daily (stabilized oxygen, potentized quinine 3x homeopathic dilution prepared in Sac Lac base) 

    3 KappArest-3x daily (an antioxidant and anti-inflammatory)

    Respiratory Response-1 dropperful 3x a day (derived from passion flower, olive leaf, andrographis and others)

    AlkaC-3x daily, in water, AM + PM 6000 mg

    Belladonna (fever reducer)-2 pellets 3-4x daily

    Tylenol (taken as needed)

    Allegra-D-1x daily

    Glutathione powder-1 scoop daily, in water

    Vitamin D-6000 mg daily

    Rhus tox (to alleviate aches)-2 pellets 3-4x daily

    Gelsemium (to lessen chills)-2 pellets 3-4x daily

    Camphora (an antiseptic that helps relief chest congestion)-2 pellets 2x daily (do not take at the same time as any other remedies)

    Echinacea/OSHA compound-1 dropper full 3x daily

    CoQ (antioxidant that supports nervous system)-1x daily

    Magnesium citrate-2 at bedtime

    Sunlighten sauna-30 minutes daily

    Outdoor walk in backyard-15-30 minutes daily

     

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 12:27pm

    #41
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 737

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    Don't want to be vaccinated?

    If you join one of these churches you will be able to make a claim on legal grounds.

    https://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/SSAGroups.xls

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 12:53pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Yes Dave

    It would be nice to know how, I agree. The mayor of Atl is doing a great job for one thing. Georgia experienced a 26% spike in cases in one week.

    https://www.ajc.com/news/breaking-news/spike-georgia-covid-cases-partly-from-virus-spread-expert-says/ScJKBSS7S4UMhVG60iALxL/

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 1:46pm

    #43

    gallantfarms

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jun 18 2009

    Posts: 63

    10+

    Vaccine Exemptions are Being Eliminated

    I doubt we will be able to rely on religious vaccine exemptions.  There has been a big push to eliminate all vaccine exemptions except medical.  Then they track and go after (threaten the license of) any doctors who will actually grant the medical exemptions.  Legislation has been introduced in almost every state in the last couple of years.  Some has been fought off by large protests (that MSM usually does not cover) and some states have already eliminated all religious and philosophical exemptions, like California.  Many, if not most, politicians are in the pocket of Pharma.

     

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 2:19pm

    vshelford

    vshelford

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    Posts: 158

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    Re Everyone has biases

    Further to dtrammel's remarks, it seems to me that, apart from anything else, we are all deriving our POV from "the data", but the data, such as it is (and it's undoubtedly inadequate in every direction) is based at this point on what has happened under some form of lockdown.  We have pretty vivid pictures of the pre-lockdown phases in China and Italy.  New York is more crowded than most places, as well as a key destination from all over the world, which are issues as well as the nursing home murders.  So we probably need to figure we really don't know.  "Opening up" is an experiment.  There's no evidence that, given lots of people close together again, that it won't surge, unless you figure it has mutated to a less virulent form by now (evidence?)  Saying that the peaks never happened could also just be saying that the lockdown worked.  We don't know.  The opening up is essentially a universal lab-rat experiment, which obviously has to be attempted before total collapse sets in.  I hope us rats continue to wear masks etc, but those who want to make it a political issue instead of a medical one maybe won't.  Economic and political issues have completely overwhelmed the public perception, not to mention any sociopathic types who always leap to the fore to grab an advantage from every disaster (read big pharma).  Isn't there another option besides everyone eventually getting this, and that's taking the precautions (masks, distancing etc) that create a firebreak, and the virus has fewer and fewer points of access?   That's what I'm going for, anyway.

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 2:23pm

    Mary59

    Mary59

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    Thank you Jim

    Dear Jim

    Good afternoon to you and thank you so very much for the really kind compliment.  I worked for many years writing very dry things, you know things with 1.2.1 A in them...policies, plans and reports.  I would love to be a real writer and dream of it indeed.  I have two books on the go...the writing of which being more like a pitch-drop experiment...but one day.

    Thank you so much again.

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 2:44pm

    #46
    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

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    Posts: 445

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    re Archive.org and B&M Gates Foundation

    @ Ian B in comment 27 re the Wayback Machine - check this out - it seems the archives are under threat:

    Wayback Machine Latest Victim of Big Tech Consolidation and Censorship

    @ Mohammed in comment 36 - I have tried to post links about this from the Last American Vagabond but links to that site in particular seems to be 'disappeared' here whenever I try to post them. In one of their articles this week they indicated that the B&M Gates Foundation is only 2 degrees removed from every single entity dealing with honey badger. Talk about tentacles... yes their reach and influence runs far, wide, and deep. I have no doubt whatsoever they are key players in the trashing of HCQ.

    For those interested I highly recommend, in addition to James Corebett's site, regular visits to The Last American Vagabond and Mint Press News, both of which seem to have highly credible investigative reporting. Tell others. Start conversations. Capitalize on people starting to ask questions about what the heck is going on!

    ‘IT’S STAGGERING’: Half of Canadians say governments hiding something about COVID-19, poll says

    Jan

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 4:20pm

    Grover

    Grover

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    Posts: 772

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    Grover said:

    Mohammed Mast wrote:

    The knowledge wasn't there? It was here on PP.

    Everyone knew how contagious SC2 is.

    But you did say almost.

    Mohammed,

    You are correct that the knowledge was available for anyone who cared to search. That's how it happened to be known here on PP. Members searched for literature and presented it to the tribe. We knew that it was very contagious and very deadly. We didn't know exactly how contagious at the time. The answer is that it depends on many factors.

    Cuomo and his people made some colossal mistakes that just compounded the situation as it progressed. I really can't fathom why the infected were sent to nursing homes unless Cuomo assumed that "nursing home" was more than just a euphemism for "extended stay hospice." If he left the infected folks in the regular hospital, there would have been more infections there rather than at the nursing homes. At the time, China was building emergency hospitals, welding people in their apartments, and converting auditoriums to sick bays. That didn't seem to be working optimally at the time.

    There really weren't any good solutions available to him. Had that decision turned out to be a brilliant answer to the problem, you can bet he'd be taking a victory lap(s). That's why I won't give him a pass. I just don't know how much culpability to heap on his shoulders.

    We don't want similar mistakes to be made in the future. If you came down with Covid-19, would you want your doctor to have options legally available for your treatment, or are you satisfied that some politician mandated that certain procedures are off the table? We need to force the issue now. It will be too late to make changes to the system after we get infected. Since the earlier the treatment begins, the better the outcome ... we need stupid, draconian measures redacted before medical care is needed.

    I don't know how to go forward with this idea. I've tried screaming at the top of my lungs until I'm blue in the face. That doesn't work. I'm not versed in the legal system. Is there a way to sue them somehow to put an end to this?

    Without meaningful changes, we'll be stuck with what we've got. (It could get worse if mandatory vaccinations become the new normal. Who knows what nano-payload will be included.) If status quo continues, that puts the onus on each of us for our own health. I wish it were different.

    Grover

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 4:51pm

    #48
    stevedaly

    stevedaly

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    New American Journal of Epidemiology article

    Via medicineuncensored.com, outpatient HCQ treatment needed immediately to save lives

    https://academic.oup.com/aje/advance-article/doi/10.1093/aje/kwaa093/5847586

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 5:08pm

    dragonfishy

    dragonfishy

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    Orwell's 1984, A warning or a textbook?

    "Those who control the past control the future. Those who control the present, control the past"

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 5:56pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Joined: May 17 2017

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    Grover

    Did you read the article in American Consequences?

    Cuomo Is not only culpable they manipulated numbers so it wouldn't look so bad. They had the space, They had hospital tents set up in Central Park. They had hospital ships and they had hospital capacity.

    Why NYC? Why not Boston? Atlanta? DC? etc.?

    A lot of Dems want him for VP . If not look for him in 4 years.

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 6:14pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Brave New World

    Huxley had an equally dystopian view but it was the other  side of the coin. Control would not be executed by inflicting pain but by inflicting pleasure ( distractions)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_New_World

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 6:36pm

    David Kendrick

    David Kendrick

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    David Kendrick said:

    Epidemic Exponential case growth only happens if people do nothing.

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 6:38pm

    Susan7

    Susan7

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    Posts: 62

    Susan7 said:

    That was a great article. I wonder how long it will take before it is retracted or just disappears.  Give that it contradicts The Party I think it will be the latter.

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 6:48pm

    JWhite

    JWhite

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    Lawsuit

    Grover – I agree with your points, and with respect to the idea of a lawsuit, I had suggested in a previous thread the idea of a class action suit brought against those who are responsible for the current U.S. policy, which could be initiated jointly by physicians and patients. As a suggestion, you could contact the Law Society or Bar Association of the state in which the lawsuit would be filed, and ask for names of litigators who specialize in class action suits, or who have handled class action lawsuits previously, and if there are litigators who specialize in medical / healthcare related lawsuits, that would be of particular interest. This information may also be on the website of the Law Society / Bar Association. Many lawyers offer a free consultation, or an initial meeting for a nominal fee, where the nature of the problem can be discussed and the lawyer can advise if there is a good case for it and how to proceed, what the expected costs would be (if any) etc. In a class action lawsuit there are, of course, many people being represented by the same lawyer so that if there are any costs these would be shared by everyone represented, and this would happen if the case did not succeed. If the lawsuit is successful then the lawyer should normally ask for costs as well, which the losing side would be expected to pay. This case seems quite strong to me, but a good litigation lawyer could confirm that. The idea with a lawsuit would be to avoid going to court (which is when the costs really add up, and it can take years), and to settle before it reaches that stage. I would think that in this particular case, the idea would be to go public with the news of the lawsuit if a lawyer agrees to take it on, in the hope that this would cause the politicians and medical governing bodies to quickly change their stance. Or perhaps simply receiving a letter from a litigator regarding the intent to file a lawsuit would be enough to result in a change in policy.

    Another suggestion regarding finding a litigator would be to try to research past medical related class action lawsuits to find the name(s) of the litigators who represented the group doing the suing, and contact them to make enquiries.

    I’m sure if you (or someone else) could locate a lawyer willing to act on this, you could find fellow Americans who would be interested in joining this action – it would be in the best interest of physicians, patients and even pharmacists, for treatment choices to be made available.

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 6:52pm

    Tycer

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    Posts: 253

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    Tycer said:

    Huxley was an interesting chap. He might have been  pretty tight with the CIA MK Ultra gig. Prescient or knowing?

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 6:54pm

    #56
    summitday113

    summitday113

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    American Association of Physicians and Surgeons advocates for HCQ

    I just attended a webinar about using a Baynesian statistical approach about HCQ data. I don’t have a lot of comfort with this method. But it’s interesting to note that regardless of whether the initial prior probability is optimistic or pessimistic, with enough iterations the posterior probabilities eventually converge.   Also interesting that the University of Washington pre-exposure prophylaxis study has a Baysean statistical design.

     

    https://aapsonline.org/evidence-hydroxychloroquine/

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 7:46pm

    #57
    Hladini

    Hladini

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    May 28th Briefing

    Hello PP,  I managed to find Chris's 5/28/20 briefing by accident and it is a blood boiler.  I got so angry,  I stopped the video and wrote a particularly nasty letter to Mr. Trump asking for Fauci's arrest for crimes against humanity.

    Be prepared to get angry:  https://www.youtube.com/user/ChrisMartensondotcom

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 10:31pm

    #58
    nordicjack

    nordicjack

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    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 700

    2+

    I would die for Dr Martenson

    Just got done watching Chris' Video today.   I am glad someone is doing all the hard work - that needs to be done.   I spend a few minutes a day or couple times a week here - and feel I know more than 99% of the people.     Dr Martenson cuts through the fodder and gets to the meat of what is worth knowing and presents it in an understandable digestible way.

    I do worry Chris is likely stepping on the toes of the powers that be.  AND worry for his safety.  ( because they are real MFs )  I am not one to back down from facts and information that needs to be addressed because someone may not like them.   I have your back Chris.  I will stand with you all day against those that oppose the facts.     You are my hero.

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 11:38pm

    #59
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    Things are deteriorating rapidly.

     

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  • Fri, May 29, 2020 - 12:14am

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    3+

    PP community, tribe or cult

    Such heartfelt affirmation assures your place among "The Remnant". Gratitude towards Chris (and the PP team} is warranted given his (their) substantial, unique and even life-saving contributions. Biblically and in other reference, the "Remnant" implies judgement and salvation. Given significant external threats, the lines between a community of "like-minded" folk, a "tribe" and a "cult" may become blurred over time and circumstance.  Clarity of thought and emotion are critical to ensure you end-up on the "right" side of the equation. That is always up to the individual to monitor relentlessly and determine.

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  • Fri, May 29, 2020 - 12:18am

    #61

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2134

    12+

    Georgia Spike - what we measure

    Hmm, looking more closely, there is a spike in cases.  In context (say, with the New York data) it is almost invisible, but if you just look at the Georgia data, it is definitely more visible.

    It is unfortunate that all we measure is COVID.  If we measured other things, we'd probably be more willing to focus on those things too.

    We all know there are "theoretically" costs to shutdown - job losses, poverty, depression, suicide.  We could probably come up with a price tag (in alcoholism and drug relapses - I know two personally - as well as homes lost, property repossessed, businesses lost) for each infection pushed forward into the future.

    Is society able to make such trade-offs?  "Sure, we'll accept 5 suicide deaths in order to prevent 1 COVID death."  Or "we'll accept 10 small businesses destroyed to avoid 1 COVID infection."  We can't even do that, since we don't have the data - certainly not in real time anyway.  Realtime COVID data brings a pressure to decision making.  It narrows our focus to just that data.

    Infections drop = good.  Infections rise = bad.

    The realtime nature of the COVID data ends up being the grade given to public policy.

    What we measure is what we end up optimizing for.  If we don't measure the rest of life, we won't end up factoring its destruction into our decision making.  Its the GDP trap all over again.

    There is unemployment data per region.  (I just went and downloaded it from FRED).   Georgia Total Nonfarm Employment dropped 475,000 in April.  That's a 10.3% drop.  Talk about an experiment!  How many deaths will THIS cause?  We won't know until later.  If ever.  As reference: 1896 COVID deaths during the whole pandemic, with roughly 10M people in the state; roughly 2 in 10,000.

    I lost my job once.  It was really hard.  And I had plenty of financial cushion, since I was pretty frugal, and a fairly well-paid engineer.  And it wasn't just me that got whacked - it was the whole office, they just closed it down.  And it was still - really hard.

    Once the May employment numbers come in, we'll be able to see how many jobs came back, and we will be able to get a sense - perhaps - how many lives were saved by this action of the Georgia governor, vs new COVID infections which was the trade off.

    My gut feel - 10 years from now, once all the studies are run and the costs are counted, society will decide not to do it this way again.  "Many more people died as an indirect effect of the shutdown, than died of the disease itself."

    No data - just my gut feel.

    After all, being poor chops about 10 years off your life.  And that's going to happen to a whole lot of people.

    "We had to destroy the village to save it."

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  • Fri, May 29, 2020 - 1:31am

    #62

    gyrogearloose

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Sep 08 2008

    Posts: 416

    1+

    New Zealand has only 1 case left.

    When NZ went into Lockdown in march I was not optimistic it would work for a few reasons, including the lack of any for of push for masks, except for health workers around cases.

     

    But here we are today with only one active case left.

    He tested positive 29 days ago so one of the longer cases.

    Everything feels a lot more normal, but up until today "mass gathering" limit was 10 people. Going up to 100 now.

    Still keeping with social distancing in shops etc for a few weeks.

    Have not looked hard, but will we be the first country to eliminate it?

    But now we have a long therm problem, keeping it out while the rest of the world inches towards herd immunity. Ind a big part of our economy was based on tourism.

    Secondary effect job layoffs are beginning to occur. ( Orders for new houses canceled.... )

    People have been coming in, 1400 non citizens let in for to make movies. Had to do 2 weeks of quarantine, but now do not have the background worry of 'will I be next?'

    Regards Hamish

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  • Fri, May 29, 2020 - 1:32am

    nyhetersverige

    nyhetersverige

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Mar 21 2020

    Posts: 189

    nyhetersverige said:

    Also that people weren't oppressed as much as brainwashed?

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  • Fri, May 29, 2020 - 2:22am

    #64
    evawatson

    evawatson

    Status: Member

    Joined: May 11 2020

    Posts: 6

    1+

    evawatson said:

    Yes   100k+ US  coronavirus deaths.  but the rapid test kit for coronavirus is still proving beneficial in saving the lives of people. by detecting the symptom quickly. reducing the workload of our real heroes.

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  • Fri, May 29, 2020 - 3:27am

    sofistek

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 02 2008

    Posts: 735

    1+

    Elimination in NZ

    Yes, we're close to zero (known) cases, in New Zealand. As you say, Hamish, it will be difficult keeping it out. In fact, I doubt that is actually possible. Anyone coming into the country provides possible paths for infection, even with a 14 day quarantine. With such a tricky virus, even border lockdown would not keep it out forever. However, we'd never be able to keep those restrictions as tight as the are for ever and when people don't need to quarantine any more, the risk increases enormously. It will get back in and I just hope our Government is planning for that eventuality (probably by mandating masks along with physical distancing as much as practically possible).

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  • Fri, May 29, 2020 - 4:04am

    #66
    David McKenney

    David McKenney

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 25 2020

    Posts: 84

    8+

    Dear President Trump

    Dear President Trump,

    Look at the trouble in Minneapolis over one death. At the same time the whole US has 100,000 deaths from the virus. That's 312 deaths/million people. Costa Rica has had 2 deaths/million. Let's do what they are doing: use HCQ. Just issue an order.

    Oh, by the way, that might gain you re-election. The Democrats will be against it.

    David

    P.S. I think you already are thinking this.

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  • Fri, May 29, 2020 - 4:32am

    #67
    Penguin Will

    Penguin Will

    Status: Member

    Joined: Aug 20 2019

    Posts: 50

    4+

    A cheerful rant...

    Reading all of the comments.. well there is some frustration there I think. I think there is a lot of it across the US. I have to say that at least a portion of it is because of "how" the experts have taken and interrogated their data.

    An old professor and mentor of mine is collaborating with me on a paper this summer. We were talking last week and the subject of the virus came up. My old friend went off with his quaint South African accent gushing forth from a beard and frame that looks like a long lost ZZ Top member.

    "These bastards don't know anything Willie! One week they tell you this and then next week they will tell you something diametrically opposed to it. And not even explain how the mistake was made. And it keeps happening again and again!"

    And so the conversation went.

    If you'll allow me, I'd offer that some supposed scientific branches have less care for the integrity of the data they use and publish than others. (I'm looking at you Economics and Big Pharm) If we can't agree on the facts then we'll never agree on the correct course of action. And violating the spirit of sound and unbiased experiment design intentionally is much  worse than just making a simple mistake crunching the data. This shows you are allowing bias to guide your work.

    It's happening and it's getting noticed.

    Will

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  • Fri, May 29, 2020 - 5:12am

    Oliveoilguy

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jun 29 2012

    Posts: 799

    5+

    Flawed Lancet Study

    Just watched Chris’ latest video on the Deceptive Lancet Study. Please download “Open letter to MR Mehta, SS Desai..” and distribute this letter. I just sent it to my Dr. and a researcher friend who works at Mayo. This is criminal what is going on. I couldn’t get it to post in an easily accessible link. Can someone please do this. We can each make a difference by forwarding this letter to people we know.

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  • Fri, May 29, 2020 - 6:11am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 737

    I am surprised Dave

    You invariably have data to back up your "gut feelings". Not this time.

    Of course Brad Pitt did say 40k people die for every 1% increase in unemployment. Maybe that is really the excess death numbers?

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  • Fri, May 29, 2020 - 6:29am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 737

    Huxley

    Those orgs. did not exist when he wrote Brave New World.

    He started out satirizing HG Wells who was obviously one of the great scifi writers ever.

    There were actually quite a number of writers working on the same subject and Huxley was accused of plagiarism.

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  • Fri, May 29, 2020 - 7:07am

    #71
    drbrucedale

    drbrucedale

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 06 2009

    Posts: 123

    2+

    Unemployment, Recessions and Early Death: Perspectives

    Friends:

    The relationships between unemployment/recessions/early death are quite "interesting".  Perhaps a useful summary is that losing your job is very bad for the life expectancy of an unemployed individual, particularly for a man, but recessions are good for society at large.

    I know, it doesn't seem to make sense. So read on. 🙂

    Here are a few results from my brief Google search, along with the links to the articles and some text from each article.

    https://drexel.edu/now/archive/2014/July/Unemployment-Study/

     

    "The increase in the risk of death associated with being unemployed is very strong," said Tapia, "but it is restricted to unemployed persons, who generally are a small fraction of the population, even in a severe recession. Compared with the increase in the risk of death among the unemployed, the decrease of the mortality risk associated with a weakening economy is small, but the benefit spreads across the entire adult population. The compound result of both effects is that total mortality rises in expansions and falls in recessions."

     

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1448606/

    Results. Unemployment was associated with an increased risk of suicide and death from undetermined causes. Low education, personality characteristics, use of sleeping pills or tranquilizers, and serious or long-lasting illness tended to strengthen the association between unemployment and early mortality.

    Conclusions. An increased risk of death from external causes implies a need for support for those experiencing unemployment, particularly susceptible individuals.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4677456/

    Results

    Unemployment was associated with a significant all-cause mortality risk relative to employment for men (hazard ratio 1.85 95% CI 1.33-2.55). This effect was robust to controlling for prior health and socio-demographic characteristics. Effects for women were smaller and statistically insignificant (HR 1.51 95% CI 0.68-3.37).

    Conclusion

    For men, the findings support the notion that the often observed association between unemployment and mortality may contain a significant causal component though for women there is less support for this conclusion. However, female employment status, as recorded in the census, is more complex than for men and may have served to under-estimate any mortality effect of unemployment. Future work should examine this issue further.

    At least one possible conclusion is that we really need to work, but that for at least some people, the work itself may be killing them.

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  • Fri, May 29, 2020 - 7:34am

    DaveDD

    DaveDD

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Sep 08 2019

    Posts: 171

    9+

    I would not die for Dr Chris Martenson; there is a better alternative

    [edited: Bruno Latours book was first published in 1987. The year that I read it! I always had 1983 in my mind.]

    Hi NordicJack,

    Your comment stirred something in me, to be precise, the heartfelt emotion, which I find honest and valuable. So, do not take this as a rebuke or something like it, you just made me think about your post, about the importance of "truth", and about our society.

    What Chris, and Adam do is superb, to me they represent a beacon of enlightenment in a sea of corrupt, ideology driven, pecuniary motivated, and tribal "science" (for persons with a lot of time, try to read Bruno Latours "Science in Action" from 1987, but better yet, this summary (link)). But let not forget, there are, luckily, many "movers and shakers" like Chris and Adam, too many to mention. Think for example of all the people who signed the letter to the Lancet, the doctors posting video's about their HCQ results, the GP's, hospitals and countries administering it anyway, the people Chris and Adam interviewed, and think of the many PP forum members also shining their lights on other social media.

    Science as a platonic ideal is rational, but actual science is not equivalent to seeking the truth, and the scientific praxis is far from rational; it is a human endeavor and as such not different from other activities involving many people, and subject to corruption, lies, manipulation, ego, you name it. Science in action has its own dirty little secrets. Consider for example how "science" treated women (link), rather sexist right? Or how the scientific community reacted to Dr Semmelweiss ideas about causes of diseases  in the time that everybody knew that bad air caused diseases (link), not really fact-driven. Or how society embraced the Ancel Keys cholesterol findings (link), what he did borders to fraudulent behavior, or is hiding experimental results that refute your theory a rational scientific activity? Gregor Mendel was completely ignored (link), if you read this nature article (link), it is right on the facts, but the sheer omission of the fact that Mendel was utterly ignored will give readers a very twisted perception of science in action. Ludwig Boltzmann committed suicide because he couldn't get his atomic theory accepted (link).  Albert Einstein had to flee Germany because he was a jew. There are hundreds, if not thousands of  historical and current examples about science in action, all proving that science is a rational activity only in theory, but a faulty human endeavor in practice. Btw, forget about the political correct entries in Wikipedia about these and many other scientists and engineers. The entries in Wikipedia fully distorted the facts to accommodate the mainstream narrative that Science is purely rational. Max Planck was right, "science progresses one funeral at a time" (link). 

    These examples illustrate that there can be a large lag between a introduction of a new theory, and the acceptance on one hand. On the other hand, acceptance of a new theory, even when the facts are really, really fishy, can be lightning speed fast when certain parties have a lot to gain (cough, meat industry, margarine producers, sugar industry, cough), while falsification of the faulty theory can take decades.

    To me, this is the reason not to die for a "truth". For 6 trillion USD you can buy a lot of "soldiers" who are willing to die, not for the "truth", but for some twisted personal optimization focus, personal believes and biases, and probably also because of some misguided trust in TPTB. Think for example of the WHO, Twitter, Google, Facebook, MSM. Responsible, respectable people work here, yet they execute exactly what they are told to do, maybe, many years from now, they also will claim, maybe even rightfully so, "Ich habe es nicht gewusst". The stakes are very high for the organizations and people involved, trillions of dollars high to be exact. The wolves will not let go.

    Instead of dying, I think it is more important to prepare for what I believe can potentially turn into a "dark age", ridicule of alternative views, suppression of thoughts, forced vaccination. Maybe the best way to honor Chris and uncountable others, is to become beacons of enlightenment ourselves. Support people, support groups, raise our children to become responsible, warmhearted but critical adults who dare to use higher faculties of their brains. Become writers, journalists, singers, farmers, teachers, cleaners, coaches, grandparents, parents, cops etc, living a truthful and therefor grandiose life. Because after the crisis that I, like many (fourth turning!) expect, the simple truths must be victorious, not the twisted perverted truths that led us into this crisis. The truth was never served by the dead, it is only served the living!

    My 2 cents

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  • Fri, May 29, 2020 - 9:05am

    VTGothic

    VTGothic

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jan 05 2020

    Posts: 218

    2+

    I have to disagree, Grover,

    Cuomo is either baseline stupid, or he knew exactly what he was doing. It was already widely known that nursing homes were Covid hot spots - but even if that were in doubt, a moment's reflection would surely tell anyone operating on at least 3 cylinders that putting pandemic-level ill or recovering patients into a facility meant to provide support for seriously ill, often declining, elderly persons is not a good idea.

    I don't rule out the possibility he's just baseline stupid. Potentially suffering, too, from a sociopathic disinterest in the suffering of others. Comments like his, "hey, if they want a job they can apply for a government position" amounts to a modern-day "out of bread? well, then, tell them to eat cake!"

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  • Fri, May 29, 2020 - 8:02pm

    #74
    Adamah

    Adamah

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 08 2020

    Posts: 14

    Smoking, Africa, and Covid-19

    A strangely low prevalence of smoking amongst Chinese Covid-19 inpatients has been reported, prompting questions about a protective effect of smoking against SARS-CoV-2 infection. Before anyone adds smoking to their list of preventive measures, be aware that smoking clearly makes Covid-19 severity worse if you are infected.
    What stood out to me about the smoking prevalence in the suspect Lancet study is that African victims have the same prevalence, more or less, as the other regions. The smoking prevalence in all of Africa, among 15 year olds and older, is around half of the world average (13.9% versus 21.9%, https://apps.who.int/gho/data/node.sdg.3-a-viz?lang=en). There’s no way that African Covid-19 patients have a smoking prevalence 3 points below population prevalence (-25%) while the difference is 10 points (-55%) in North America.

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