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    Gold’s (And Silver’s!) Time Has Arrived

    Are you well-positioned for it?
    by Adam Taggart

    Thursday, July 30, 2020, 4:07 PM

Peak Prosperity publishes ALERTs very rarely, and only when my co-founder Chris Martenson and I are concerned enough to take personal action.

On May 8, I released an ALERT informing our premium subscribers that, concerned by the ramifications of the global central banks’ response to the coronavirus,  I was moving a material percentage of my portfolio’s cash reserves into precious metals, notably into silver as the gold/silver ratio then of 110:1 remained near a record high.

Since the issuance of that ALERT, gold has broken above it’s previous all-time high price, moving up 14%, from $1,717/oz to $1,950/oz.

And silver has performed strikingly better: rising over 55% from $15.75/oz to $24.50/oz. As anticipated, the gold/silver ratio has fallen nearly 30% to 80:1.

However, much more important than this near-term pop in the precious metals is their outlook going forward.

We’ve been writing for years here at PeakProsperity.com about gold and silver’s extreme undervaluation given the risks we’re facing in our monetary and financial systems. And yet, for years, the metals languished as capital flowed eagerly into “paper wealth”, fueled by central bank liquidity, record low interest rates, and a rampant increase in debt and deficits.

Back in 2017, Grant Williams famously and correctly nailed the neglected state of the precious metals in his prescient work, Nobody Cares.

A year ago, as gold managed to break above it’s longtime ceiling of $1,350/oz, we began loudly alerting our readers that the years of neglect were finally over. That, indeed, investors were beginning to “care” again.

Fast forward to where we are today, a pandemic and +$5 trillion in global central bank liquidity later, and now it’s seeming that suddenly Everybody Cares about the precious metals.

Gold’s — and silver’s — time has arrived. Precious metals are finally back in a secular bull market.

Key questions to address at this moment are:

  • How much further are prices likely to move from here?
  • What are the odds of a price correction in the near term, given how far and how fast prices have moved recently?
  • How well-positioned are you to take advantage of this bull market in the metals?

Fundamentals: Higher Prices To Come

Money Printing/Inflation Concerns

More currency = inflation. Milton Friedman famously and correctly stated: “Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary act”.

Well, since March 1, the US Congress has already approved nearly $3 trillion in legislation (with another $1-3 trillion on the way, depending on which political party’s plan gets passed). And the Federal Reserve has already expanded its balance sheet by over $2.5 trillion, with forecasts of another $2+ trillion being added later this year:

Projected 2020 Federal Reserve balance sheet

And that’s just the US. The rest of the world is following suit:

Global monetary policy chart

Billionaire seasoned investors like Paul SingerRay Dalio, and Paul Tudor Jones are now raising loud concerns about the diminishment in purchasing power all of these new freshly-printed trillions will have on national fiat currencies. When big dogs like these, who have feasted on and benefitted magnificently by the status quo over the past decade, fret about about the central banks “printing too much”, you know it’s time to worry.

TINA (There Is No Alternative)

In today’s environment of zero-to-negative interest rates, big financial institutions and pension funds aren’t able to get a meaningful return on the bonds the hold in their portfolios:
Negative yields chart

The absence of yield is forcing portfolio managers to diversify into gold. While gold also has no yield, it offers a hedge against today’s extreme valuations in equity and bond prices, as well as powerful purchasing power protection:

Gold’s Record Rally Fuelled by Unlikely Buyers (Bloomberg)

July 29, 2020

“Safe government bonds have always played a very important role as a portfolio diversifier and will continue to be, but we have to recognize that their potency is diminishing due to the low absolute level of yields,” said Geraldine Sundstrom, who focuses on asset allocation strategies for Pacific Investment Management Co. in London.

“We need to diversify our diversifier and look for safe haven beyond government bonds. Given Pimco’s view that rates will be kept very low for years to come causing depressed levels of real yield, gold feels like an appropriate diversifier,” she said.

Pimco, which manages $1.9 trillion in assets, is far from alone. In a May note, Citigroup Inc. cited “new non-traditional investors in bullion, including insurance companies and pension funds” as part of the fuel behind the rally.

As we’ve been educating readers about for year, it’s very important to note that gold  — and especially silver — is extremely underowned as an asset class even though the investable markets for the metals are much smaller than many realize. It will only take a small percentage of the world’s capital to shift from stocks and bonds into the metals to send their prices soaring much higher:

“There has definitely been more widespread institutional ownership of gold than in previous rallies,” says John Reade, chief market strategist at the World Gold Council. “Gold’s in the conversation now with much more investors than it was 10 or 20 years ago.”

Even so, gold ownership among the professional class is viewed to be low. The total value of investor positions in gold futures and exchange-traded funds is equivalent to just 0.6% of the $40 trillion in global funds, according to UBS Group AG strategist Joni Teves. That position could easily double without the allocation looking extreme, she wrote in a note.

Reade, who previously worked at hedge fund Paulson & Co., reckons no more than one in five institutional investors has an allocation to gold.

The world’s privately-held gold bullion amounts to $2.5 trillion, with much of it tightly held by investors not looking to sell anytime soon. If just a few of the large institutional funds not currently invested in gold decide to start accumulating, gold will quickly become known as “unaffordium” (hat tip to GoldSilver.com’s Mike Maloney).

Silver is much crazier. Since most of the silver ever mined has either been commercially consumed or used for jewelry/religious purposes, private above ground stores are tiny: about $48 billion (that’s with a “b”, not a “tr”). Even if we add to that all of the $17 billion or so in annual silver expected to be mined this year, that’s only $65 billion.

It would take only a few billionaires taking a stake, or the tiniest amount of demand shifting from the $20 trillion US Treasury market into silver, to convert the metal into “unobtanium” (again, hat tip to Mike).

Technical Analysis: A Short-Term Pullback Likely

With such a large advance happening so fast, a short-term pullback in the prices of gold and silver are probable; even welcome.

A 10-15% correction would keep the price action from becoming overheated and turning into a blow-off top, which typically gives up most of its prior gains. Also, such a modest correction would give investors opportunity to enter the market/add to their positions at lower prices.

Cup & Handle Formation?

Most technical analysts see gold as in the process of forming a massive multi-year cup and handle pattern. Once the “cup” is formed, a minor cooling off period follows (the “handle”). After the handle is complete, a climb to new highs usually occurs.

Here’s a classic example of a cup and handle pattern:classic cup and handle pattern

And here’s gold, along with a projected price zone should a handle indeed follow next:

Should a handle develop and then complete, gold’s price could easily be in the mid-$2,000s (or higher) in short order.

Weakening Dollar About To Strengthen?

Another reason to be prepared for a near-term price correction has to do with gold’s trading correlation with the dollar. Most of the time (but not all of the time!), gold trades inversely to the dollar.

Gold’s big run-up from $1,500 to $2,000 over the past few months has occurred alongside a sharp drop in the USD. Should that reverse, it would not be surprising to see gold fall as the dollar rises.

And we can see in the chart below that the dollar is now hitting the bottom of its multi-year trading range, which could likely serve as support for it to bounce off:

(Source)

So caution is calling us to expect a short-term price correction in gold and silver before we expect to see new record highs later on.

What Investors Like You Should Consider Doing Now

Jeff Clark, senior precious metals analyst at GoldSilver.com, estimates that we are only entering the second inning of this new secular bull market. “The really big gains still lie ahead”, he predicts. (you can hear a lot more from Jeff in this video, recorded today)

So, what should regular investors like you be considering at this moment?

Here are our recommendations, though it’s important that we make it absolutely clear this not personal financial advice. As always, we recommend working with a professional financial adviser to build an investment plan customized to your own needs and objectives. (If you do not have a financial advisor or do not feel comfortable with your current advisor’s expertise with gold or the market risks we discuss here at PeakProsperity.com, consider scheduling a free consultation with our endorsed advisor)

All right, with that important caveat out of the way, here are the steps we think worth seriously considering:

If You Don’t Own Any Gold or Silver (Step Zero)

If you don’t own any, then buy some now, whatever today’s prices are.

Precious metals first and foremost are insurance against financial/monetary crisis. Just as you wouldn’t drive your car without auto insurance, you don’t want to neglect adding this crisis insurance to your investment portfolio.

So get your initial precious metals position in place now. And start sleeping better knowing you’ve got that protection in place.

For guidance on where to purchase bullion (we particularly like the Hard Assets Alliance and its metal storage solutions), what form to own it in, and where to keep it, read our free Primer On How To Buy And Store Gold & Silver.

If You Already Own Precious Metals (Steps 1-3)

If you already hold gold and silver in your portfolio, pat yourself on the back. You’ve likely enjoyed watching the recent price run-up.

Here are the steps we recommend you consider now:

  1. Explore options for protection against a short-term price correction in the metals. Stops, puts, covered calls — these are all ways to hedge against lower prices. Don’t try using these yourself if you’re not already well-experienced with them! Work under the supervision of a financial advisor with deep expertise using these, who can craft a hedging strategy appropriate for your portfolio and your goals. If you don’t already have such an advisor, click here to schedule a completely free, no-obligation consultation with Peak Prosperity’s endorsed financial advisor.
  2. Create a regular program to increase your position over time. The best way to accumulate precious metals is to do so over time, letting the power of dollar cost averaging work for you. The Hard Asset Alliance’s MetalStream program is our favorite solution for this, as it automatically purchases gold and silver for you at the ratio you want on the frequency you want. But, if preferred, you can certainly create your own DIY program if you have the discipline and don’t mind the hassle.
  3. Determine if and how you want exposure to precious metals mining companies. When gold and silver prices rise, the shares of the companies that mine these metals tend to rise a lot farther. Owning shares of precious metals mining companies can be very lucrative; but you can easily lose a lot of money, too. If you’re interested in exploring gaining exposure to mining shares, first read Jeff Clark’s free guide on the topic and then talk to your financial advisor (or schedule a free consultation with the one we endorse) about how best to put this into action in your portfolio.

2020 has proven to be a year unlike any other. It has shaken our confidence in our economic, financial, political and social systems — proving them to be a lot less stable than we’d previously assumed.

Gold’s re-pricing is reflecting that realization. The big question is: How much more uncertainty remains ahead?

The financial markets remain ridiculously overvalued. The Federal Reserve and the world’s other central banks are hell-bent on continuing to print more $trillions. In the US alone, tens of millions of households have lost their income, while daily deaths from the coronavirus continue to hit records on a daily basis. The upcoming US presidential election is certain to be hotly-contested, should it even happen.

The reality is that the future is packed full of uncertainty. And more uncertainty will drive the price of gold, and silver, higher. Likey much higher — as Jeff Clark reminds us we’re still in the early innings here.

Use the time now to get smartly positioned.

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83 Comments

  • Thu, Jul 30, 2020 - 4:58pm

    #1
    reflector

    reflector

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Aug 20 2011

    Posts: 263

    2

    2022?

    Good article, Adam, and I mostly agree.

    Though, I note the cup and handle chart may give readers the impression that gold's "handle" will form out until 2022; I find that very unlikely given the increasing dollar debasement and acceleration of the deterioration of the financial landscape, and of society in general.

    I made the difficult decision to part with a large portion of my physical gold holdings yesterday. Not only because of the expected pullback in gold prices, but because miners will outperform, and act as leverage to the underlying metal. that will be the place to deploy capital for outsized returns once the correction seems to be over.

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  • Thu, Jul 30, 2020 - 5:06pm

    #2
    Pappy

    Pappy

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jun 29 2020

    Posts: 37

    17

    Can't let go and you can't hold on...

    Found out I'm most likely losing my job on Monday. My call for now or 6 weeks from now.

    Pulling off the band-aid now for the extra time it affords me and the hope of better severance before rounds 2&3 start up. Been nice living the 6-figure dream, wonder what fulltime farming is like...

    Severance and 401k withdrawl are going into land and gold, adding to my recent Au acquisitions last month @$1800 per (thanks PP for saving the value of my minimal wealth with your advice).

    I gotta ditch this suburban lifestyle and increase my living and garden space to acreage now and quick. This is going to be a real high-wire act. Grab a property that I can pay cash for and then sell my house to get out whatever equity I can retain.

    Hope my Madison, WI bedroom community retains its value long enough as I attempt to transition more rural. I don't see any net under this tightrope either.

     

    In other news, Dunkin Brands is closing up 800 locations (easily 3000+ jobs just evaporated, employees and distributors alike), 650 corporate real estate and logistics employees in Bentonville, AR at Fortune 1 are getting the boot and 9.5% of the GDP shrank (doubt that's accurate, seems way low) between April and June.

    It appears Herman Cain most likely caught COVID while campaigning for Trump and not wearing a mask. And died.

    Oh yeah, almost forgot, there was a Tweet from someone "important" that floated the idea of suspending elections.

    Fascism has a checklist and it finally finished that list here in the US:

     

    Right now, Robert Hunter is the only thing I can find to help me thru:

    Small wheel turn by the fire and rod,
    Big wheel turn by the grace of God,
    Every time that wheel turn 'round,
    Bound to cover just a little more ground.

    The wheel is turning and you can't slow down,
    You can't let go and you can't hold on,
    You can't go back and you can't stand still,
    If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will.

     

    Bring it on universe. I'm as ready as I'll ever be.

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  • Thu, Jul 30, 2020 - 5:36pm

    #3
    dryam2000

    dryam2000

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Sep 06 2009

    Posts: 417

    6

    Negativity real interest rates

    By far, the biggest driver for the precious metals is negative real interest rates.  The USD is very noteworthy as any significant drop will certainly put a floor under the metals and will likely drive them higher.

    Here’s a link to Treasury real yield curve rates

    The USD has been dropping fairly rapidly, and the metals went up very rapidly especially  over the month of July.  I get the distinct sense both gold and silver are (still) being manipulated lower than what they would be naturally.  The manipulation has long been suspected by many, but just this past week there have been examples.  Look when gold/silver spiked July 28, and then were immediately slammed down, and have stayed down the past few days despite lower real interest rates, lower 10yr yield, and a sharply lower USD.  Also, last Friday gold and silver prices were managed down at the last millisecond such that the closing prices were $1899.95 & $22.997........seems like more than a coincidence that both numbers were ridiculously close to the big round numbers, but they weren’t allowed to as the financial headlines over the weekend would be psychologically different.  Today, the 10yr was down significantly and the USD was crushed, yet gold was down and silver was slammed.....for no clear fundamental reason.  I think TPTB don’t want a disorderly run up in metal prices, especially given what looks like a fairly disorderly drop in the USD which has showed no signs of abating.....and the negative real interest rates becoming even more negative.

    The reason I say all of this is that I would be cautious with expectations regarding timing of the metals going up.  This current financial environment is about as fundamentally bullish for gold as it gets......reasons above, Fed’s balance sheet skyrocketing with no end in sight as there are so many future bailouts that will be coming, etc.  Industrial demand for silver could drop if CV19 grinds the world economy lower & lower, but monetary demand is extremely bullish.  Expect volatility, especially with silver & mining stocks.  I think a long time horizon is best as there may be some manufactured drops in prices to deter people from buying.  The Fed/TPTB want peoples’ monies to be headed into asset classes of their choosing such as the stock market, bonds, etc.  They HATE gold/silver.  Trading the metals should be avoided......you will get burned.  Buy & hold.

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  • Thu, Jul 30, 2020 - 5:57pm

    #4

    Mark_BC

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2010

    Posts: 410

    12

    Mark_BC said:

    Don't forget that 10 years ago gold hit $1900, silver $50, and everyone was jumping on the bandwagon, myself included. I remember the few alienated voices warning it was a setup get trammelled and ridiculed. But they were right.

    What concerns me here is that precious metals prices are still completely determined by digital derivatives. I'm not expecting prices to really move until a physical default happens. So then why are digital prices going up? Probably as explained, increased institutional interest. But that is also digital. What's stopping TPTB from just printing up 10x more digital gold to meet 10x more digital demand, and bring prices back down?

    I don't expect another 10 year wait is in our future but I'm hesitant to buy into this rally. May just be another sucker punch. Just like TSLA never really crashes, because fundamentals just don't matter anymore. And that's still the case while the digital financial system rules.

    I'm lucky because after being low on work for a few months I'm back on a job designing a pure silver mine (with a bit of gold), which is rare since most silver mined is a byproduct of industrial mining. So every dollar that silver goes up improves my job security exponentially. This job is going as fast as possible for obvious reasons.

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  • Thu, Jul 30, 2020 - 5:59pm

    #5
    planfortomorrow

    planfortomorrow

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 28 2017

    Posts: 155

    2

    planfortomorrow said:

    Yes, I'm holding Gold and Silver, 20%. To not have factored for this would have been a grave mistake. I still do not believe however we are near collapse, years, maybe decades still. I hope. Whatever... Peace

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  • Thu, Jul 30, 2020 - 9:26pm

    #6
    MKI

    MKI

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    Joined: Jan 12 2009

    Posts: 254

    0

    Owning Metals = Insurance But No Yield

    Owning 5%-20% of PM gets tossed around a lot. But the question is: % of "what"? NW or investments?

    I prefer 10% of investment and always get physical. What good is PM as insurance if you don't have it in hand when the SHTF?

    PM has no yield. But at only 10%, if the other 90% is kept in dividend-paying stocks/rent-generating real-estate it has a very nice yield and thus slowly grows irregardless of PM prices.

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  • Thu, Jul 30, 2020 - 9:31pm

    #7
    2retired

    2retired

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 20 2020

    Posts: 74

    4

    2retired said:

    I have tried to query older colleges that had to weather collapse of governance around them; usually with some sort of overlord: Japanese occupation of Hong Kong, internment camps; civil wars; and the things that retained useful value were a bit unexpected (soap was one of them!), and precious metals due to their weight and bulk and dearth of exchange-abilty for food or survival did not rank highly (as I was expecting) as they require a trading platform. It maybe it is like earth quake preparedness; being prepared for a 6, 8, or 9, +or- tsunami, are all quite different.

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  • Thu, Jul 30, 2020 - 10:38pm

    #8
    VegasJim

    VegasJim

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Mar 19 2020

    Posts: 84

    4

    View from the street level....

    Coin stores and pawn shops are the new hottness, the cool place to be in the 110 temps.  The local news stations are running segments on the "new gold rush", the "we will buy your gold and silver "ads are starting to pop up also.  Business in the shops seems to be flowing in both directions, sellers cashing in..buyers scooping it up.... with silly premiums in play for the brokers.  One local shop took in 6 monster boxes of SAE's....and had them all sold within an hour @ 15k/each.  Lot's of fake crap from China also coming in.  Buyers seem to be younger, which is to be expected I guess.  Withe the $600 extra unemployment running out, I wonder how that will effect the pawn shop traffic.

    Interesting re-reading that May 8 alert, and the comments as well...

    Cheers,

    Jim

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  • Fri, Jul 31, 2020 - 12:46am

    SagerXX

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Feb 11 2009

    Posts: 462

    16

    I don't see any net under this tightrope either.

    Pappy said "I don't see any net under this tightrope either."

    Brother, I don't envy you the moment in which you stand.  But I will say this:  you will discover gifts and strengths you never knew you had as you walk the road out of the place in which you stand.  Adjust expectations.  Stay present in the moment.  Call on the people around you.  You'll need them.  And they, you.

    I'm about 12 years into a journey similar.  It's the best time of my life yet.  I wish for you the same.

    May Fortune smile upon us all!

    VIVA -- Sager

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  • Fri, Jul 31, 2020 - 12:52am

    David Allan

    David Allan

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Nov 15 2009

    Posts: 52

    11

    Keep focused Pappy and don't panic

    I gotta ditch this suburban lifestyle and increase my living and garden space to acreage now and quick. This is going to be a real high-wire act. Grab a property that I can pay cash for and then sell my house to get out whatever equity I can retain.

    Hope my Madison, WI bedroom community retains its value long enough as I attempt to transition more rural. I don't see any net under this tightrope either.

    I was in a similar position when I first twigged to the big picture of the end of growth and its implications. I was a business professional in a city and realized I needed to sell up and get into a rural homestead. Luckily my wife was on board. It took over a year to sell up and make the move. Now, 10 years later we are well established on some land in the country with orchard , vege gardens , chickens and  a few animals.

    In the time it took to sell up and move I was shitting myself. I thought things were going to happen much faster than they did.  I actually felt guilty about selling the old place because it was not 'resilient'. But it was just what the buyer was looking for.  And the thing is most people still have no idea whats coming down the line.  So hold your nerve - list your property for a realistic price, someone will want it - and work your plan to transition to a new life. Congratulations on making the decision.

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  • Fri, Jul 31, 2020 - 4:34am

    #11
    Chris Martenson

    Chris Martenson

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Jun 07 2007

    Posts: 5365

    11

    The Looming Comex Default?

    [Also cross-posted in the daily PM thread]

    Again - I know, I know - I'm talking again about the Comex default that never happens and is never gonna happen!

    But then again...

    August is a tame month for gold and nothing ever happens.  Ever.  September and December are *always* the hot months for contracts.

    Except in 2020.

    Check this out:

    Jajajajajajajaja!

    A record amount of first notices stood for delivery.  In A.U.G.U.S.T.

    My friends, that is very notable!  As in, this time may be different.  

    We shall see...

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  • Fri, Jul 31, 2020 - 5:13am

    #12
    ddelong

    ddelong

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 20 2015

    Posts: 35

    11

    Keep Stacking

    If the managers decide to throw a COVID bonus our way again, I will again take the remainder of the $2400 (Aprox. $800) and put it into PM like the other one.  I do this any time I by chance get a tax refund from Fed or State as well.  Turn their monopoly money into something real.  Also half of any work bonus I have ever received has been turned into real assets, PM, land, real tools.

    Although I am a GenX'er, I have heeded the stories and lessons of my late grandparent's life growing up in the Great Depression.  Yes you need to be resilient and be able to take care of yourself and those close to you, but there also might be great opportunities presented as we reset to whatever is next.

    Stay strong, be resilient.

     

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  • Fri, Jul 31, 2020 - 9:24am

    #13
    DisappearingCulture

    DisappearingCulture

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jun 21 2014

    Posts: 57

    0

    I think this brief blog on silver posted today is worth a read.

    EARLY SILVER MARKET UPDATE: Where Silver Closes Today Sets An Important Trend For Next Month

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  • Fri, Jul 31, 2020 - 10:23am

    Mommer

    Mommer

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    Joined: Oct 08 2016

    Posts: 8

    1

    Mommer said:

    I had a consultation with Justin at New Harbor yesterday. Very impressed! Somehow I had forgotten about the 28% capital gains tax on PMs. I had hoped I could sell one PM and transfer it to another one in a like-kind exchange but that isn't possible.

    There is no way to offset this fixed 28% tax rate unless I am seeing something. I wonder if the government might raise the collectibles tax rate to discourage people from holding PM. Any thoughts?

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  • Fri, Jul 31, 2020 - 10:37am

    DisappearingCulture

    DisappearingCulture

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jun 21 2014

    Posts: 57

    2

    DisappearingCulture said:

    Some people choose not to declare every dollar that comes into their hands.

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  • Fri, Jul 31, 2020 - 10:50am

    MKI

    MKI

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 12 2009

    Posts: 254

    0

    no way to offset this fixed 28% tax rate

    There is no way to offset this fixed 28% tax rate

    When buying physical PM, many buy local from friends which is easy when dollar cost averaging, because then one is aselling when everyone wants to buy, and vice versa.

    If the average US citizen starts to become less trusting of government (say like say Russia or China folk are) we will see more demand in the private space. Much of our immigration is currently from nations who are not as "trusting" as traditional American boomers are, so the black market is likely the future (think Mexico, for how Americans may view government in say 20 years). America is changing fast.

    But operating in the local market is all about relationships, and these cannot be built overnight.

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  • Fri, Jul 31, 2020 - 12:56pm

    #17

    000

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Dec 10 2013

    Posts: 210

    1

    Paul Tudor Jones buys Bitcoin as inflation hedge

    Paul Tudor Jones buys BTC

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  • Fri, Jul 31, 2020 - 1:33pm

    #18

    000

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Dec 10 2013

    Posts: 210

    0

    Can anyone educate us on investing in Reinsurance?

    strategy of investing in reinsurance seeks to offer investors:

    • Higher return potential, similar to stocks or high-yield bonds
    • Bond-like return mechanics, but without interest-rate risk or economic sensitivity
    • Diversification benefits due to very low correlation with traditional asset classes

    Is this just another risk on investment?

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  • Fri, Jul 31, 2020 - 2:15pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 794

    0

    BTC Bull Run

    There was a group of Chinese scammers who were dumping BTC when the price hit a certain level. It was depressing the price. They are now in jail. One barrier to the bull run has now been removed. Number of accts. are increasing. Institutional investors are moving into the space. Crypto has been declared "money" by the Comptroller of the currency . Make of it what you will.

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  • Fri, Jul 31, 2020 - 2:23pm

    #20
    nedyne

    nedyne

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 86

    1

    Unobtanium? Unlikly-um

    I see some faulty reasoning here, and I've seen this argument over and over:

    Silver is much crazier. Since most of the silver ever mined has either been commercially consumed or used for jewelry/religious purposes, private above ground stores are tiny: about $48 billion (that’s with a “b”, not a “tr”). Even if we add to that all of the $17 billion or so in annual silver expected to be mined this year, that’s only $65 billion.

    It would take only a few billionaires taking a stake, or the tiniest amount of demand shifting from the $20 trillion US Treasury market into silver, to convert the metal into “unobtanium” (again, hat tip to Mike).

    Of course, it could happen, but it doesn't need to happen, even if billionaires wanted to get a lot of precious metals. They can always get gold. Think of this similar reasoning:
    'Private real estate is under-owned. CitiX is a small town in Switzerland with 20K inhabitants and 15 houses for sale. If even a few billionaires wanted to own property in CitiX, houses in CitiX would soon become "unobtainium".'
    The reasoning is correct, but it doesn't follow from it that you should rush to invest in CitiX. Sure, a bunch of dumb billionaires could bid up CitiX properties to the moon, even as other private real estate around the world rises much more modestly, but you shouldn't expect this to happen, because it would be more sensible for such billionaires to look for value in places other than CitiX. For similar reasons, while nothing can stop determined billionaires from bidding up silver and bidding the gold/silver ratio down to silly numbers, it would make silver overvalued, and buying an overvalued asset is a dangerous thing. If Nelson Bunk Hunt was still alive, he could attest to this.

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  • Fri, Jul 31, 2020 - 2:41pm

    #21

    Mark_BC

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2010

    Posts: 410

    1

    Mark_BC said:

    But silver is different than gold, much more different than houses is two cities. It has specific industrial uses and if a physical default happened, there is no other "house" that industry could go to without a major restructuring.

    Furthermore, compare real estate in San Francisco to rural Kansas. Indeed, even real estate can have dramatic price differences.

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  • Fri, Jul 31, 2020 - 2:56pm

    #22
    Lineman7

    Lineman7

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 05 2020

    Posts: 20

    0

    My Take

    Congratulations Adam. You have established a silver and gold position prior to the latest precious metals boom, as you recommended that others also do so. As I’ve posted before, I think it's good planning to maintain a 10-15% position in gold and silver. My slightly different take on some of your advice.  For those with no gold or silver position. You're late to the game, and it is like trying to buy fire insurance after the house is burning. I would wait for a dip of 10%+ to start buying in. If you already own gold and silver again I would use a 10-15% limit and buy more opportunistically. Once prices go up and you hit the 15% limit stop buying and hold until the position hits 20% of investments then reassess the situation and decide whether to take some profits. I don’t use hedges against a price decline, its just guaranteed negative cash flow, and is not necessary if you keep your position within your means, in my opinion. Again, well done Adam!

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  • Fri, Jul 31, 2020 - 5:26pm

    #23
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 794

    1

    TINA (There Is No Alternative) Not Really

    No surprise that we disagree once again. But since you mentioned PT Jones . You may wish to look at the post of 000 above which mentions that he disagrees with you as well.

    Crypto currencies are and have been an alternative since their inception. But to a hammer everything looks like a nail. And here since the beginning PM"s have been the nail.

    That was very true until 2009 when a Mr. Satoshi issued a white paper which was revolutionary. It was unobserved here for 4 years. Since then it has largely been ignored.

    At this moment BTC is at $11,336. Etherium is at $345. BTC is the most valuable liquid investment you can own. Institutional investors are moving into the space and people like Mr. Jones and Mr. Maloney have positions.

    So I beg to differ with your assertion, that their is no other alternative. There are many forms of capital that are to be found in your book.

    Hey Pappy good to see a little Robert Hunter here. This one seems appropriate.

    Now I don't know but I been told
    it's hard to run with the weight of gold
    Other hand I heard it said
    it's just as hard with the weight of lead

    https://medium.com/in-bitcoin-we-trust/hodling-bitcoin-right-now-is-easy-the-real-challenge-will-start-when-the-price-becomes-parabolic-82f41b379960

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  • Fri, Jul 31, 2020 - 7:51pm

    nedyne

    nedyne

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 86

    0

    Bitcoin

    I suggest you read the paper Bitcoin will bite the dust. I have not been able to find an intelligent rebuttal to the paper. But it does not seem to have deterred the bitcoin fans.

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  • Fri, Jul 31, 2020 - 8:05pm

    travissidelinger

    Status: Member

    Joined: Nov 17 2010

    Posts: 181

    2

    TINA (There is no alternative)

    Wait no!.  TINA is referring to the Central Banks.  They have no alternative but to keep the markets, and subsequently their systems going, at all costs.  If they let's the system deflate, it will implode.

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  • Fri, Jul 31, 2020 - 8:06pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 794

    0

    Mohammed Mast said:

    LOL

    You want something to last forever?

    The one sure thing that will last forever is stupidity. It can't be fixed and there is no cure

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  • Fri, Jul 31, 2020 - 8:07pm

    #27

    travissidelinger

    Status: Member

    Joined: Nov 17 2010

    Posts: 181

    0

    DXY vs GOLD today

    Did we just see both gold and DXY go up all day?  That's not "suppose" to happen.  🙂

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  • Fri, Jul 31, 2020 - 10:32pm

    MKI

    MKI

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 12 2009

    Posts: 254

    5

    Gold and DXY both going up - makes sense and predicted

    Did we just see both gold and DXY go up all day? That's not "suppose" to happen.

    It very much makes sense. In fact, nothing else does in these times.

    Nearly half of the world's trade is in DXY, mostly Eurodollars ($ outside of the US). Nobody can print USD but the US, so the world desperately needs us to do this for the world economy is to grow.

    So they print more of their currencies, and trade them for more printed USD. Of course, this causes USD to go down against gold...but every other currency must print to match our reserve currency, so they fall against gold too.

    So in a USD squeeze like we see today, everyone must print together, and they cannot keep up with us, so the USD goes up against them...while gold also goes up against all currencies.

    People forget how strong the US is compared to other countries. As I've said here before:

    1. 45% of trade is invoiced in USD.

    2. US has a somewhat fair rule of law (compared to other countries).

    3. US has the largest military in the world by far, and the most nukes.

    4. US is the top oil producer. The US has the most coal reserves.

    5. US Navy controls sea lanes, and enforces them.

    6. US has lots nuclear & NG.

    7. US is the world's breadbasket.

    8. US is the world's largest client; if we decide to take our industries back, Asia & Europe are screwed, probably civil unrest.

    9. The US has the most gold reserves - 8T vs 3T for the next contender.

    In summary, the US is king. We call the shots. We are nowhere close to "collapsing". If and when we get close, every other country will be dead first. We are grading on a curve here, and we are the cleanest shirt in a VERY dirty laundry pile. Of course, gold is the clean white linen in this analogy...and the US has the most...which is likely why it will be taxed our outlawed into submission over the next generation. Own physical. Own now. Have cash. YMMV.

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  • Sat, Aug 01, 2020 - 3:51am

    planfortomorrow

    planfortomorrow

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 28 2017

    Posts: 155

    9

    planfortomorrow said:

    Sager, we started around the same time and every day was "THE" day everything was to implode. Then Chris started to talk about the gift of time and planning, getting started. This advice seemed strong advice as it fit my lifestyle until that point. This was always the dream but it felt like a huge push was necessary so we just got started.

    Charles talked about the need to unclutter your lives and so the things I didn't need were sold off and a good price was fetched as the Fed made everyone whole and we could get good prices for the consumer goods we purchased into the future that were just not needed. I mean, how many TV's did we really need, the Boys were gone so get rid of all the stuff, keeping what was necessary.

    We made our biggest move when selling our home. A beautiful home that after the Financial Crisis wasn't worth half of what we paid for it. Again, 10 years later and we sold at the top of the market, I priced it lower than the comps said but I sold it the first day and a wonderful profit so the Fed gets all my love. The cash didn't all go to the top .000000000001% and that pleases me. We closed on our home in late November and the economy was closed down in March!!! That is just dumb luck was my thoughts, and those who went greedy are still sitting in their homes. I know, I visit the old neighborhood and Folks that were selling at the same time are still there.

    Now, we are building our dream home, our Cabin and I can finance this myself. I want no debt and the cash remaining will work for the common good as I will never really need it. Plus building your own home and doing the work on projects I'm qualified to do has saved a bundle so there's that. Being and working in the trades my whole life and loving it paid yet another dividend. It's a dream come true. This came about because my Lady and I put everything we could away, we paid ourselves first and the Fed did the rest. The stock market provided us with crazy profits and the oil of 2008-09 provided insane profits as the Financial Crisis was at it's lows and finally turned, so, just a major stroke of luck at a time in History. Oil prices were very high, reaching again over $100 a barrel and the Bakken was just a baby and everyone wanted to be in the E&P space. Great profits were made.

    Not Rich by any stretch but, if smart, it will take care of all expenses going forward but we won't need it so it will go to my son's and Grandson's.

    All that it took was planning and time. Now we eat from our garden and the chickens give us so many eggs and meat. We have added a few other animals to the mix like 2 pigs, 4 lamb and will fill the freezer with beef from an across the road farmer who raises the beef. Fixing his fences secured the meat as a barter and this arrangement is now 3 years strong where work is performed for the freezer meats.

    It all seems so easy but it was nourished over 12 years and in place are people I really need in my life, we exchange our gifts for different kinds of gifts. Strawberry's were in abundance this year and frozen for a long winter. These strawberry's were gifts to my neighbors, with whip crème and short cakes as a thank you for the many times my neighbors helped me by just stopping by and asking if what they had could help the bigger project we were doing. This is how it goes when your needs are made easier by someone else gifts. Seldom do you require the help so the gifts are for that time when you really need them and this is understood. It's funny how good will has a way of becoming infectious. Everyone wants to feel a part of something nice and not have their space infringed upon, we are there because of the solitude and spacing after all, but we do need each others at times.

    So, yes, the spot you are on right now is not where you will end up on so long as you just take that step to move forward.

    My guess, we will receive the gift of time still and you will end up where you want to be in the end. Good luck to all, just recognizing where you want to go is the hardest part, getting there is the easiest part but you must plan and work extremely hard, no one can help you until you put yourself into the place where common Folks like yourself have made their decisions already, their there waiting for you, you just have to get there. The rest comes together if willing to share without expectations.

    This time next year and we do what we have always wanted to do. Then it will be time to enjoy the fruits of our labor and plan a different plan, like how can we play just a little more. Well, The Roost, our 5th wheeler we paid for years ago and have lived comfortably in will be our home on wheels and we will take shorter trips and look and see how others are doing things, and just enjoy the world from the road. Then head back to our home that we always dreamed of that will be tended by friends and neighbors, perhaps my oldest son and his wife while we were gone. This is a high quality of life that never gets old. The spot you occupy now will NOT be the spot you stay in, that's for darn sure. Peace

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  • Sat, Aug 01, 2020 - 4:27am

    planfortomorrow

    planfortomorrow

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 28 2017

    Posts: 155

    2

    planfortomorrow said:

    Deja vu all over again! LOL...we shall see. Peace

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  • Sat, Aug 01, 2020 - 5:28am

    #31
    permiegirl

    permiegirl

    Status: Member

    Joined: Aug 01 2020

    Posts: 2

    4

    Watch where you put that gold and silver

    Went back to read the post about acquiring and storing gold and silver.  As someone who's lived most of her life in an urban area, I've been burglarized and have friends who've experienced the same.  So I can tell you where NOT to store your gold, and one of those locations was recommended as a good spot .... a home safe.  My friend's home safe was bolted to his bedroom closet floor, and the thieves had no problem ripping it out and stealing the entire safe.  BTW, his house was locked and he had a dog.

    A word to the wise (which can be verified by speaking to any cop in an non-rural or suburban area) don't store anything you don't want stolen in your master bedroom.  It's the first place to be ransacked.

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  • Sat, Aug 01, 2020 - 5:42am

    #32

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 2439

    1

    PM robbery from bank SDB

    I have heard an unfortunate story or two of a safe deposit box full of PM that was burglarized by a family member or spouse whose name was on the box.

    Remember, everyone whose name is on the SDB can access (and empty) the box.

    Suggest that the main user only have their own name on the box, and choose "right of survivorship" for the spouse or family member.

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  • Sat, Aug 01, 2020 - 5:51am

    Tycer

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Apr 26 2009

    Posts: 258

    3

    Tycer said:

    There’s a difference between a safe and a security box labeled a safe. I’m not going to go into it here as it’s been written about quite a bit on the Internet. If a person wants to store something in a secure safe, it’s a bit more involved than buying a box and bolting it down. I’m sorry you’ve been burglarized. I have been also. Such a feeling of violation.

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  • Sat, Aug 01, 2020 - 6:37am

    permiegirl

    permiegirl

    Status: Member

    Joined: Aug 01 2020

    Posts: 2

    2

    permiegirl said:

    Thanks, I'll look into that.  My current strategy is to use one of those "security boxes" as a decoy.  I keep it in my closet, not bolted down so as not to ruin the floor, and keep about $200 in cash and some cheap gold-plated jewelry in it that I've had forever and no longer wear, along with some copies of documents that don't give a ton of personal information.  Don't want to alert the thieves to my devious plot when they open it! 😉

    Anything of greater value is not in my bedroom and hidden much more thoughtfully.  Fortunately, we live in a lovely old house with nice thick walls, a walk-up attic and a full basement.  There's lots of good hiding spots.

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  • Sat, Aug 01, 2020 - 7:01am

    #35
    French connexion

    French connexion

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Mar 26 2020

    Posts: 200

    3

    Pin Ball Wizard

    Please consider that one of the arguments for owning Gold, Silver (or other precious metals) is that banks - as in bullion banks - and Central Banks are VERY ACTIVELY shorting these metals through the Comex EVERY SINGLE DAY. Just watch the Kitco daily charts.

    Proving this is difficult only because the system has not yet failed. But as Chris posted, if there is a Comex failure - their game of creating "fiat" which is then used to suppress physical - through shorting - with the strategy of  going long stocks (futures again) - not caring if gold goes up NB so long as stocks go up at a faster rate (making money for themselves and controlling the game). The Bank of International Settlement weights into the gold market at EVERY month end - except this one (July) knocking the price down.

    I mention this just to say that technical analysis, in this manipulated state of affairs, is useless - as we have a broken system which like musical chairs will end abruptly. I will not be "hedging" at any point.

    Don't be fooled by thinking gold and silver are "overbought" - I wish Adam had said something along these lines - that it is not just the investment outlook for gold which is positive - that for many years we have lived according to "investment performance" meaning that money managers are forced to invest in the assets which are going up the fastest - Gold has not been allowed to go up faster than stocks - except for now. "They" are down to their last FAANG stocks, and up against a dwindling supply of real physical gold to continue the Game. Like in pin ball, when the tilt sign comes on, the buttons don't work any more.

    We will soon find out their "solution" for us.

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  • Sat, Aug 01, 2020 - 7:53am

    #36
    MarkM

    MarkM

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jul 22 2008

    Posts: 421

    0

    There has got to be a twist

    There are many and it feels like we are getting closer to seeing them.

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  • Sat, Aug 01, 2020 - 10:12am

    #37
    kunga

    kunga

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 368

    3

    Holding PMs

    Never store valuables in a bank box.  A secret known by more than one person is not a secret.

    Back in early 2000s, I was the only person, for hours, that showed up at my local coin shop.  (No internet sales in those days.) The owner told me many juicy stories.  Four years later, I couldn't fight my way to the counter.

    He told me to get a can of blue spray paint, coat all my coins and put them in a basket on top of the TV.  One story was about a local attorney who had done some work for a gold mining company over on the east side.  When he died, his will gave his wife most possessions, but his mistress got his office articles.  One day, the mistress brought into the coin dealer some silver lumps that had been used as paper weights around the office.  She wanted to know if they were worth anything.  My friend hefted the lumps, then pulled out his pocket knife to scrape off the silver coating.  Underneath was pure gold.

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  • Sat, Aug 01, 2020 - 10:51am

    #38

    thatchmo

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Dec 13 2008

    Posts: 238

    2

    He's Gone.........

    Pappy and MM- you keep quoting Robert Hunter, and you're gonna bring back Dogs (DIAP).  So keep it up!  Aloha, Steve.

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  • Sat, Aug 01, 2020 - 3:54pm

    #39

    Montana Native

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 17 2009

    Posts: 122

    0

    Grayscale Bitcoin Trust

    I've been on the PM train since early 2009. In fact, probably started right around the time I joined this site. For the last decade my focus has been acquiring physical, although up to 2010 I did buy and sell some mining stock. In anticipation and along with the comments from the daily PM thread I've parked money in both the gold and silver Sprott ETF's, GDXJ, and one small silver producer that looks to have a bright future. This time I want to cash out of some of my positions. I'm pretty heavily leveraged in the PM market and I'm considering speculating in Bitcoin as I see it has been doing relatively well lately as the dollar drops. If Tesla can trade at $1700, I don't see any reason bitcoin can't go to 100K. When the Quoth the Raven podcast guy interviewed Max Keiser recently, he told Max bitcoin is going to zero or a million. I kind of feel the same way. Was wondering if anyone had any input on the Grayscale bitcoin trust as a vehicle to track bitcoin price without having to store it and worry about tax issues. Is it even a decent idea? Again, this is purely speculation that I would buy into slowly over the coming months.
    Thanks, TJ

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  • Sat, Aug 01, 2020 - 6:24pm

    #40
    Nate

    Nate

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 05 2009

    Posts: 468

    2

    000 - IQ?

    Stop wasting our time.

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  • Sat, Aug 01, 2020 - 7:14pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 794

    2

    Grayscale

    I know someone who is invested in Grayscale. I have not gotten into it yet but am considering it. Just have not had the time to investigate it. As far as taxes crypto is treated as a commodity for tax purposes. If it has been on an exchange they know you have it and if you dispose of it you will have liability. If you keep it a year or more it is long tern capital gain.

    If you get Tezos you can keep it on Coinbase and get a return of around 5%

    Ethereum is looking very good right now, with smart contracts and defi. It has just gone up 14.5% in the last 24 hours to $397. I am expecting a pullback this week then another run . But it is just guess work. Go to trading view and see what they are saying. I have seen crypto destroy TA. Good luck

     

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  • Sat, Aug 01, 2020 - 7:42pm

    000

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Dec 10 2013

    Posts: 210

    1

    Only You Nate

    Only you can waste your time. Mine is quite well spent.

    Thank you for your concern.

    My first purchase was at $748/oz.  and folks like you who told me to stop wasting their time are now trying to find it at what price?

    But your right, I meant to post that else where. Thanks again for your keen wit and intellectual prowess. Remember to never look down the barrel during a jam.

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  • Sat, Aug 01, 2020 - 7:49pm

    #43
    dryam2000

    dryam2000

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Sep 06 2009

    Posts: 417

    2

    An excellent rundown on investing in gold/silver...

    First, here’s a visual representation of the strong correlation between real interest rates and gold prices.  We are currently in an extremely bullish environment with negative real interest rates.

    And, here’s a link to a fairly comprehensive nondogmatic assessment to investing in gold/silver.

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  • Sat, Aug 01, 2020 - 8:50pm

    #44

    000

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Dec 10 2013

    Posts: 210

    1

    Protect Your Gold The Way They Protect Fiat

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  • Sun, Aug 02, 2020 - 4:37am

    #45

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2188

    8

    Craig Hemke on COMEX delivery

    Here's an article written by Craig Hemke about a month ago on the whole delivery issue.  He helped clear some things up for me - I just track markets, I'm not an expert on the COMEX process.  He is.  This wasn't important before, but it certainly is now.

    Here are some of the important numbers.  Deliveries are up by - maybe 5-10 times.

    https://thedailycoin.org/2020/07/01/extreme-comex-delivery-demand-continues-craig-hemke/

    Over the past several years and for as far back as I have records, an average “delivery month” for COMEX gold sees anywhere from 6,000-10,000 “deliveries”. In the period 2015-2019, the highest amount of monthly “deliveries” came in June of 2016 with 15,785 contracts. The lightest delivery month in this period was just 922 contracts in April of 2017.

    Again, to restore legitimacy to their COMEX exchange, the CME Group openly moved to make the COMEX a delivery vehicle in April of this year, and the result is astounding:

    • For the delivery month of April 2020: 31,166 total deliveries

    • The non-delivery month of May 2020: 10,277 total deliveries

    • The delivery month of June 2020: A blowout of 55,102 deliveries

    • On just the first day of the non-delivery month of July: 3,316 deliveries

    [July (final): 9,607 deliveries]

    [August (first 2 days): 34,874 deliveries]

    This data could well be an important driver for the price of gold going forward.  Too bad I don't have it on a data feed!  It is available - as a pdf at COMEX.  This is something I probably need to track.

    https://www.cmegroup.com/delivery_reports/MetalsIssuesAndStopsMTDReport.pdf

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  • Sun, Aug 02, 2020 - 7:57am

    Nasby

    Nasby

    Status: Member

    Joined: May 09 2013

    Posts: 3

    2

    Correction to "cup and handle"; it's gonna be a LADLE

    Don't hold your breath waiting for a handle.  Get in now, and don't count on any significant pullback.

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  • Sun, Aug 02, 2020 - 8:06am

    #47
    wotthecurtains

    wotthecurtains

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 27 2020

    Posts: 99

    0

    BOLTR

    LOL. Ive been meaning to catch up on my BOLTR videos.   How many times have I impressed friends and family by referring to ALI Express as "Chairman Mao's dollorama"?   How many laughs have I gotten referring to myself as "A self identified lesbian of colour"?

     

    I believe the guy behind those videos has involvement in the gold mining industry.  Ill be sure to make time to watch his recent vids now.   Ive always wondered if he was a bit anti-gold (like a lot of people in the mining industry kind of are).

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  • Sun, Aug 02, 2020 - 8:47am

    #48
    Chris Martenson

    Chris Martenson

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Jun 07 2007

    Posts: 5365

    16

    That's not a cup & handle. **THIS** is a cup and handle!

    /Spoken in Crocodile Dundee voice/

    When/if this thing breaks to the upside, ...

    ... we're gonna need a bigger log chart.

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  • Sun, Aug 02, 2020 - 11:13am

    #49
    AT

    AT

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 15 2020

    Posts: 5

    0

    The Silver Fraud

    Please don't waste your money on silver. Today silver is an industrial metal, no different than copper or iron except that some people remember it as a monetary metal from the days of precious metal coins. It was once a monetary metal only because Gold was too precious and rare for small denomination coins. In the past iron and copper were also used for small denomination coins in lieu of gold and silver because those metals were also relatively rare.

    It makes as much sense to consider silver as a monetary metal today as it does to consider iron and copper monetary metals because of their past history as coins.

    Consider, how many central banks hold silver on their balance sheets? How many wealthy individuals? The answer is NONE. They hold gold and only gold as a store of wealth among all metals. Think like a GIANT!

    Gold is the ONLY top-tier wealth asset which is just as available to the common person as the extremely weathly.

    Metals merchants don't want you to understand this because they earn a significant portion of their revenue by selling you an industrial metal (silver) that you wrongly believe is a monetary metal.

    Silver will never again be a monetary metal. We will never again have hard coin currency, even after hyperinflation, which I do believe will come. Think and ask someone who has experienced hyperinflation in modern times. Will Walmart cashiers be trusted to accept silver and gold coins as currency and make change? Ridiculous!

    Instead they will continue (and be forced) to take only (rapidly inflating) dollars.

     

     

     

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  • Sun, Aug 02, 2020 - 11:56am

    Montana Native

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 17 2009

    Posts: 122

    16

    AT......Silver fraud

    Silver was money for centuries upon centuries. Only in 1965 did it officially leave the US monetary system. It of course almost immediately vanished courtesy of Gresham's law. Interestingly enough, mints all over the world still coin silver money. In fact, you could buy a 1 oz Silver Eagle from the US mint right now for $37. The blip that silver has been out of the official system is minuscule and the long historic lineage of silver money stands in great contrast to the debt driven fiat machine we live in. I'll gamble on thousands of years of monetary history over 55 years of debt exuberance. Thanks for playing.....silver will never go to zero. It will add zeros.

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  • Sun, Aug 02, 2020 - 12:27pm

    AT

    AT

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 15 2020

    Posts: 5

    0

    AT said:

    Don't lie. I never said silver would go to zero. Nor will copper or iron. Go try to spend your silver or gold coins at the grocery store and report back what happens. That will never change. Horses were the primary mode of transport for thousands of years. Do you have one also? I suggest that you only invest in silver as a monetary medal if you also believe we will return to riding horses to work. If you recognize that we will adjust to a new post-debt life that still incorporates modern technology then buy gold.

    Gold, not gold coins is the true wealth store.

     

     

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  • Sun, Aug 02, 2020 - 12:49pm

    noktisvallis22

    noktisvallis22

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 12 2014

    Posts: 8

    4

    noktisvallis22 said:

    .gold and silver is money... everything else is credit....

    basing ones investment decisions on that principle,  will imply in these times forget "yields and "price"" and focus on resilient value.

    gold and silver , raw lands, and commodities  are the things to seek and possess .

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  • Sun, Aug 02, 2020 - 2:27pm

    VTGothic

    VTGothic

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    Joined: Jan 05 2020

    Posts: 267

    13

    Free advice is worth every penny.

    Well, c'mon AT. Sure, silver is an industrial metal. Doesn't mean it has no numismatic value; ie, doesn't follow that it has no wealth storage value. Gold is also an industrial metal, and good for jewelry, like silver; doesn't follow that gold is no good for wealth storage.

    So far all you've done is tell us you don't value silver as a wealth storage metal. Fine. Don't buy any.

    Everyone has opinions. What you have not done is document your opinion that silver no longer has a role as a precious, a value-storage, metal. It's just your opinion. Yet, contradicting your assertion, every jewelry store demonstrates that silver still has numismatic value. I see no reason to think that's going to change any time soon.

    Silver's also accessible to people who have limited means, for whom gold is already out of reach. And is likely more practical for people who haven't significant wealth to preserve, but who want to hedge against the possibility that one day fiat becomes worthless or suspect.

    For my part, I'll wager silver is more likely to be usable as a daily exchange metal than gold if we ever fall into that fiat-doubting world. In fact, I have wagered on it.

    So, next to yours, here's my opinion, for what either is worth. (Mere opinions are worth every penny free advice costs.) Gold is good for storing wealth until the reset bottoms out, when physical and financial assets are available on the cheap; that's the time to trade gold for high quality stocks throwing off dividends, and/or for more land or select real estate. Silver - esp. in small denominations - is good for buying and selling in the midst of the reset event, while currency is in doubt. It will probably help me get the things I want or need during the crisis. But if silver ever pops up to its historic valuation vis-a-vis gold, I'll be sorely tempted to trade silver for gold because that would turbo-charge my gold investment.

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  • Sun, Aug 02, 2020 - 4:57pm

    #54
    robie robinson

    robie robinson

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Aug 25 2009

    Posts: 1064

    9

    ...as a producer of commodities,,,

    ,,,in the current state I would gladly exchange PM’sfor hay,grain,beef,lamb,veggies,wood,etc. Don’t! Even think about american express! or bitcoin for that matter.

    when the property tax man cometh? I hope to be prepared.

    husband,father,farmer,optometrist (obtw HCQ maculopathies are dose weight time dependent)

     

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  • Mon, Aug 03, 2020 - 12:43am

    planfortomorrow

    planfortomorrow

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    Joined: Dec 28 2017

    Posts: 155

    6

    planfortomorrow said:

    Regarding horses: did you know we have as many horses and the infrastructure as we did back during the Civil War!? It's true and I would love to be back to the horse and buggy days. So much so I may just get one to pull a sleigh in the winter just to experience this joy first hand. Then again, I probably won't. I don't know anything about horses so would be an expensive feel good event. Instead I'll rent one as a huge horse Farm will be opened up not far up the road from us. I can't wait to meet these Folks and request some of the poo for my compost pile. As my nephew who is a plumber would say "your shit is my bread and butter". I know exactly what this means and he is so right.

    Silver is a great investment and time will prove this out. You must remember, people mostly know that Silver and Gold are money so will go within their comfort zone if paper does fail. I still think paper will be around a long time or plastic because everyone understands it, will accept it. I know I will.

    Regarding plastic: I believe this form of payment could collect the tax that now is skimmed off in the underworld markets (tax avoidance) and be taxed helping all those who pay taxes get those who try and avoid taxes. I don't know why we go through the stress or risks of jail time trying to avoid a few thousands bucks. I did at times through out my years in construction but, my conscious never served me well when I did. I want a strong military, strong economy. services. so I'll pay for this. What I don't like are tax avoidance or others who make me pay more because they don't pay anything at all.

    None of this matters at all, not really, all that matters is you play the game with integrity, live the high character life style where your word is your bond and you will succeed so much more than if you game the system and look and act like a sloppily dressed fool.

    Regarding Gold: You can make a very good living buying others Gold, especially jewelry. So many people have chains with broken lock sets that can be picked for next to nothing. I would often ask what they wanted for it at a party to buy Gold. $20 bucks seemed to be the common answer on chains worth way more than that so for just a little hustle time you get what you want on the cheap and they get something out of it as well so all are happy. If confronted by that one asked question (usually), "well how much is my broken chain worth?". I would say to them that for me to gather it up, take it in to get fixed and all that entails it really isn't worth that much more to me. I will still get the sale. However, when you take 100 chains in the hassle doesn't seem so real. Plus it's a party. you provide good food and friends to gather/ It's an event and a positive gathering so worth it as the chains that are broken are no longer something these previous owners must think about. It's a win-win. Thing is you just have the weight of the metal, do nothing except to get it melted down and put away. I will still BUY Gold this way but I don't hustle it like I did when I was younger, I have what I want. I was gifted (long story) many years ago my Grandpa's treasures by my family for taking care of my Mother so I don't ever think that this is a liquid asset for me. I would only use it for family needs, the whole family. If any of my Brothers or sisters needed help then I pay attention and resolve their issues.

    I place more value in my land and time spent there. So much needs to be learned or fixed or resolved that I have no time for anything else. The main reason is the time spent growing food is so peaceful and gratifying that when I sit on our porch, with coffee and a nice smoke I get to feeling so good about life that it's all I ever think about. To have Barb there with me feeling and talking the same feelings just makes everything so much better. Additionally we will have our friends with us, they live 450 feet from us. a short walk through a wooded trail we worked to put together for when we visit each others. All of us feel as though each others homes are our own because we all work so hard for the common good that these terrific feelings are shared with them also. Then another friend up the road will notice we are all on the porch, will stop to say hello, ask if we might take care of their dogs when out of town, sit and have a beer or coffee and soon we are all talking about how lucky we all are for having the simple life, a throw back life and how good it is to have friends that look out for each others. This is the monetary system I wish to have, where I don't dig into my pockets to pay for something, we just exchange good will and things get done. Love you all, now take that first step. Sager is right, listen or read what he said because he is so right. Maybe we will be gifted another 10 years of time and you can have everything you could possibly imagine and there are Folks out there that are waiting for you to show up so collectively you can get things done where it seems impossible now. My strongest recommendation is this: no one cares how hard they had to work to help you, no one measures that against the project they may ask you to help them on. What gets measured is that you're there busting your hump for them and getting done what they think is most important. That's the monetary value. That everyone gets done what they need done. Remember too, clean and replace the tools they give you to help them. This is important and shows you care. That or bring your own tools but still clean them, it impresses everyone watching you do this. Tools are so revered by us back woods type so like tending a garden, respect them... Peace

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  • Mon, Aug 03, 2020 - 8:52am

    Chris Martenson

    Chris Martenson

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    Joined: Jun 07 2007

    Posts: 5365

    11

    Re: The Silver Fraud

    Please don't waste your money on silver. Today silver is an industrial metal, no different than copper or iron except that some people remember it as a monetary metal from the days of precious metal coins.

    LOL

    What a distinctly western point of view.  Try traveling some time.

    Maybe to India...a place with a population exceeding the entirety of the US, Canada, Mexico, all of Europe and Russia combined.  India's population values silver as a store of wealth.

    So do the people of many other countries.

    But beyond that, you may also be interested to know that as an industrial metal alone, silver has an exceptional story of utility and depletion.  Very different from copper or iron.  But to get to that story you'd have to invest some some in learning the details.

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  • Mon, Aug 03, 2020 - 9:01am

    travissidelinger

    Status: Member

    Joined: Nov 17 2010

    Posts: 181

    6

    Gold and Silver as currency?

    Go try to spend your silver or gold coins at the grocery store and report back what happens.

    Sure, I will agree with you on that point.  And that's simple because eventually there won't be any box stores.  Real people will gladly take your gold and silver coins.

    Big box stores are just an artifact of cheap energy, specifically cheap oil.  Without cheat oil there is no trucking industry.  Without cheap electricity, how will they light and cool those large stores.

    A road side tent selling garden vegetables and eggs has almost no overhead.  Thus, those will be with us for as long as we still have people around.

    The consequences of hyperinflation seem a little harder to predict.  But I can imagine after several years of hyperinflation, that people will easily move away from trading fake paper into trading real things for real things.  It will take some time for people to re-learn the ratio of things.  Will that include gold and silver, I don't know.  There are a lot of things that could go sideways there.

    Another point, I think as people see dollar price of gold and silver go up and up, they will take notice.  It will be a gradual process.  We'll see the price of everything else go up too, but gold and silver coins are portable.  There are solid reasons people have used from for thousands of years.

    -Travis

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  • Mon, Aug 03, 2020 - 10:08am

    Pipyman

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 24 2011

    Posts: 113

    3

    Hmmmmm

    Got any silver you want to sell? I’ll give you the same value in copper all day...

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  • Mon, Aug 03, 2020 - 10:09am

    #59
    RocketDoc

    RocketDoc

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    Joined: Aug 28 2013

    Posts: 30

    2

    Gold and silver "dangers"

    The current market for physical gold and silver has much too wide a spread to be useful in transactions.  The gold spread is at least 5% and the silver eagle spread is more like 10% .  To be useful this spread needs to be closer to 1%.  That will only occur if there is a legitimate market that exchanges fiat for PMs with  no tax on "gains" and quality assurance with no default risk.  If the government is not interested because it has a pecuniary interest in the alternative system, it is unlikely to occur on a viable scale.  The 95% of the population without gold will prefer whatever political money is offered them especially if it is sweetened with some form of UBI.  I suspect electronic money (or a cashless society) is the future of public money.  Gold and silver will remain private money with transaction costs.  They can then also be controlled like illegal drug sales.  How do you buy heroin with no cash?   How do you sell gold at a coin shop?  Taxable event.  And if you buy it--it's recorded.

    Societal collapse is a whole other issue with money only one of many concerns....

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  • Mon, Aug 03, 2020 - 10:10am

    Pipyman

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 24 2011

    Posts: 113

    1

    Oooh

    Go easy Chris, he’s going to hurt enough!

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  • Mon, Aug 03, 2020 - 2:02pm

    MKI

    MKI

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    Joined: Jan 12 2009

    Posts: 254

    1

    Gold and silver

    RocketDoc, that's a good overview of the metal situation IMO. Comments:

    The current market for physical gold and silver has much too wide a spread to be useful in transactions.

    Agreed. I believe us peons now only use gold as a backup store of value, which is much like governments use it. It's just prudent to keep 10% of one's investments in PM. And it's not a coincidence the that government with the world reserve currency (US) has double the gold supply of the next contender (Germany).

    The gold spread is at least 5% and the silver eagle spread is more like 10% .  To be useful this spread needs to be closer to 1%.  That will only occur if there is a legitimate market that exchanges fiat for PMs with  no tax on "gains" and quality assurance with no default risk.

    I think it's high time for US citizens to wake up to the reality the gold market is an "underground" market today due to predatory taxes. It's now just how well-off individuals or governments store some of their wealth (say, 10%). It's NOT a practical transaction currency. It's very practical for "tribes' of people to trade it back and forth.

    If the government is not interested because it has a pecuniary interest in the alternative system, it is unlikely to occur on a viable scale.

    "If"? Of course the government will not allow PM to compete. Again, PM is a black market wealth holding device.

    Gold and silver will remain private money with transaction costs.

    I believe the future will leave PM as the private store of value for the purpose of trading with-OUT transaction costs. Like drugs, this revolution will not be admitted, let alone reported.

    Gold Eagles & Krugerrands will remain an excellent way to store wealth - they can, using a Fisch, be traded privately among friends with full assurance of being valid. Unlike the USD, which can be devalued by the day. Slowly, painfully, Americans will likely start to learn to work outside the system merely to shield their net worth from the government and court systems. Gold coins kept/traded privately allow for avoiding taxes, medical debts, student loan debt recovery, and child support seizure...the latter which cannot be shed via bankruptcy for life. Honestly, I would be surprised if black-market gold is already being used in larger numbers than we realize. I hope I'm wrong, but these are not safe times, and gold and guns are a common response.

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  • Mon, Aug 03, 2020 - 2:22pm

    travissidelinger

    Status: Member

    Joined: Nov 17 2010

    Posts: 181

    2

    re: Gold and silver

    RocketDoc,

    You have some good points there.  Here in Ohio I stopped purchasing new silver last year because they now tax purchases.  You can still sell your PM's without paying taxes.  They had removed the tax on PM's for a number of years, but then when they started looking at their budgets, guess what got re-added...  So yes, new taxes on PM's could get added at any time, and then they are no longer a good idea.  This is very likely.

    As for electronic money, I suspect it's very likely a fed backed crypto currency is in our future.  They can tax it, and track it 100%.

    As for PM spreads, go get 20$ out of the ATM machine and see what they charge you.  The average spread around here is 2.50-3.00$ per transaction.

    The real magic for gold and silver happens when the average person on the street stops trusting their dollars will have value tomorrow.  People won't want to hold dollars for any period of time.  And I suspect there will be a large number of people that will blame the government, and everyone else.  Therefore, I suspect people will be less concerned about many of the rules they are required to follow.

    -Travis

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  • Mon, Aug 03, 2020 - 2:56pm

    #63
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 794

    3

    Can't give Gold Away

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgUxF7gvYeE

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  • Mon, Aug 03, 2020 - 4:02pm

    trbickle

    trbickle

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    Joined: Sep 24 2017

    Posts: 3

    0

    Sales Tax

    I'm glad you mentioned the sales tax issue.  I haven't heard much discussion on this.  It's a major deterrent now for me in Wisconsin to add 5.5% sales tax on any purchases of gold or silver.  Some online vendors were slow to get their systems into place on this and there remains an ever shrinking group that still do not charge sales tax, but I hesitate to mention names here.  I can respond privately if interested.  Even ebay charges on everything now.  Adding over $100 to an ounce of gold on top of regular premiums is tough.  You're already technically in the hole on the premium before adding this.  I suppose it deters the flippers and arbitrageurs the most, but still stings me whenever I add to cart and see that add-on even though I'm in for the long haul.  I have purchased less because of this.

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  • Mon, Aug 03, 2020 - 5:37pm

    #65
    wotthecurtains

    wotthecurtains

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 27 2020

    Posts: 99

    6

    Loving the discussion but....

    As a recent signup, I hope the commentors (behind the paywall anyway) will take a more constructive tone than "Anyone who buys ____ is a moron".

     

    I'm here to learn about the pros and cons of various "alternative investments" without a lot of personal judgments being thrown around.   As a gold owner, I started out buying physical because "if you don't hold it you don't own it".

     

    That sentiment remains true but what if you had wanted silver during the March meltdown when it was like $12?  Everyone here knows you couldn't possibly aquire phys at anywhere close to that price.

     

    Well,  the proprietor of TFMetals Report did an interview with the CEO of OneGold and they were talking about a crypto backed silver product that could be converted later into physical that was delivered.   There were small fees involved, but if I had known such a product existed I would have been all over it.  I would have used the phys conversion option but the point is the crypto element made it possible to get a paper price for phys!

     

    On another hand, I own some sprott gold/silver trust shares because I already had money in a tax sheltered account and, frankly, Im worried about a special "its not fair" tax of 90% being levelled on physical gold holdings.  On a third hand, I converted some of that into GDX shares because Im also afraid that one call to the Canadian Mint and that Sprott gold will be handed over to Canada's central bank with a single phone call (right before the big revaluation).  So thats not even gold but a paper product (ETF) wrapping a paper product (shares) that give leverage on the commodity.   Now I can worry about the government nationalizing the mines!

    There are other advantages/disadvantages to all sorts of products and technologies.  All ways of holding, including crypto (which I own none of).

     

    But people getting all evangelical about one investment or form to the exclusion of all others rather misses the point of the "Resilience" training that Chris and Adam are trying to teach here.   My final destination has been to own "a little of everything" so that I have some exposure and I dont get wiped out if one thing or another happens and Im confident they cant all happen.

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  • Mon, Aug 03, 2020 - 5:53pm

    Redneck Engineer

    Redneck Engineer

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    Joined: Mar 16 2020

    Posts: 112

    4

    Redneck Engineer said:

    Getting a mix of investments hedges against the various risks. Physical gold and silver has risk of confiscation and theft, so getting additional exposure through ETFs like PHYS or PSLV as well as mining indices like GDX is good. We can do analysis to try to predict which investments will do best, but having broad exposure also means you'll likely get good gains on the way up.

    This amateur's two cents...

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  • Tue, Aug 04, 2020 - 6:21am

    timot78

    timot78

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    Joined: Sep 18 2010

    Posts: 44

    0

    Kitco-Vault-Chain-Silver

    Speaking about crypto-backed Silver product(s).

     

    I recently spotted on Kitco.com their new offering:

    https://online.kitco.com/kitco-vault-chain-silver#sell

    From their website:  INTRODUCING: VAULTCHAINTM SILVER

    VaultChainTM Silver is a Kitco exclusive! You can buy Silver digitally, and your digital silver actually represents physical silver held at the Royal Canadian Mint. Even more exciting, VaultChainTM Silver uses a blockchain distributed ledger, which gives you real time tracking, transparent auditability and data accuracy.

     

    If true, it carries some advantages over the promoted Hard Assets Alliance's product  (https://hardassetsalliance.com/products-pricing/) because they (HAA) have very high commissions and, for silver, high storage fees.).

     

    There are pros and cons for Kitco’s VaultChain offering – but, if you don’t intend to immediately get ownership of the product (silver), it is digitally allocated by the BlockChain technology– and one does not incur the storage fees.  For silver, I see significant total expense reduction, as compared to the offering of Hard Asset Alliance.  There is still spread between buy/sell, but no storage fees.

     

    Does anybody have any experience with this offering from Kitco?

     

    -Peter

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  • Tue, Aug 04, 2020 - 7:10am

    Steve

    Steve

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    Joined: Jun 27 2009

    Posts: 183

    3

    Can't spend silver at the grocery store. Can't give gold away ...

    Very interesting video about not giving gold away.  Although, I suspect desperate people learn quickly... lol.

    Once I had a large supply of post '64 (not much silver) Kennedy half dollars and wanted to get rid of them.  So, I used them at the grocery store to pay a large grocery bill (around $150).  Anyway, I had a bag of the half dollars and started counting them out.  The cashier, who was early 20's, did not know what they were.  She quibbled with me, insisting they were 4 to the dollar.  I told here they were half dollars and that was 2 to the dollar.  Not only did she not recognize them, but she could not do the simple math to figure 2 to the dollar so that I could pay my bill.  The people in line behind me became upset at me for using the half dollars to pay my bill.  They felt I was wasting their time.  I stated that half dollars are legal currency, for paying all bills in the USA, and stayed until the cashier figured it out.

    It's really unbelievable the lack of financial education our population has these days.  So, it doesn't surprise me that a person had rather have a free Snickers bar than a free tenth ounce gold coin! ... and it will take some real changes for people to start bartering with silver coins at their real value.  Many can't even figure out how to use coins at their face value, let alone have the math skills to calculate their metals value.

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  • Tue, Aug 04, 2020 - 7:45am

    #69

    travissidelinger

    Status: Member

    Joined: Nov 17 2010

    Posts: 181

    0

    Jim Rickards and Peter Schiff

    Worth a watch

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  • Tue, Aug 04, 2020 - 7:48am

    Nate

    Nate

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 05 2009

    Posts: 468

    3

    half dollars

    Several years ago I purchased $450 in half dollars from the bank to check for silver coins.  Found 1 0.900 half dollar in the entire lot.  The rolls were stored on my dresser in the bedroom, and as luck would have it, we were robbed during this time.   The thieves took a bunch of stuff from the bedroom, but did not touch the rolls of half dollars.

    Armstrong has mentioned that different generations value wealth differently.  Gold and silver work well for the boomers, but the millennials have little interest in them.  My thinking is that the best strategy is to liquidate your PM's at some point during this bull market (not yet!) cause your children won't see these valuations again.

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  • Tue, Aug 04, 2020 - 8:51am

    #71
    RocketDoc

    RocketDoc

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    Joined: Aug 28 2013

    Posts: 30

    5

    Official Precious Metals Subterfuge

    Many thanks for nice comments on my above post.  To most people money is an economic or technical issue while in fact it is a central political issue.  Why people cannot see this is intriguing.  My employees care about their pay but I cannot make them see that the ultimate value of it can be altered to their detriment.  The owners of society definitely do not want us discussing how they keep score.

    As a long time PM investor I can share my experience of losing significant sums of money while making the right long term call.  I held Vanguard Precious Metals and Mining Fund from the Fall of 2009 until today and it has gone down from about $22 share to $8 despite the run up recently.  Vanguard changed the fund from 80% mining and bullion to 25% in 2018 after a 10 year fall in its price, ensuring holders would not profit when it rebounded.  Someone else owns the mining shares I used to and Vanguard is proud of the opportunities it has opened up for me in the Global Economic Cycles space....

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  • Tue, Aug 04, 2020 - 9:41am

    000

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Dec 10 2013

    Posts: 210

    0

    Correction

    Correction: $436/oz. 2004 You inspired me to go into my records.

    One of the benefits of processing financial documents before filing them with the SEC, on the third shift is learning how to recognize unprosecuted  felons in expensive suits.

    Woohoo, the winds are starting toreally blow and buckets of rain outside (Issaias has arrived)

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  • Tue, Aug 04, 2020 - 1:01pm

    #73
    centroid

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    Joined: Nov 16 2014

    Posts: 84

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    Gold is rising because of DEFLATION and a shortage of collateral

    Market Research

     

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  • Tue, Aug 04, 2020 - 1:48pm

    #74
    centroid

    centroid

    Status: Member

    Joined: Nov 16 2014

    Posts: 84

    1

    to make a big change you need a simple mantra and keep repeating it to communicate with the masses:

    All roads lead back to the fiat money system:

    Broken countries.  Broken trade. Broken bond markets. Broken manufacturing. Broken businesses. Broken housing markets. Broken Labour markets. Broken people.  Mal-investments. Wealth inequality. Big Government. Mass immigration. Overpopulation. Nature fighting back. Big military. Wars. Climate change.

    End the FED. End the ECB. End the BOJ. End the PBOC. End the BOE. End the SNB. End the RBA

    Bring back The Classical Gold Standard.

     

    this is using a little bit of churchills recipe and a certain propaganda minister during WW2, but instead the truth is being repeated with this mantra

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  • Tue, Aug 04, 2020 - 1:49pm

    Rick

    Rick

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    Joined: Jul 19 2020

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    digital silver

    Peter you asked about experience with kitco digital coins. While I do not have experience with Kitco I have been involved with LODE (website - lode.one) for awhile.

    A few general facts as I understand - still learning:

    LODE is still developing but it is a long way down the road to creating what they hope will be a digital currency so not just a place to store PM.  I have a view that once you have enough emergency physical silver/gold and wealth stacked up it makes a lot of sense to look at and learn about digital PMs. To that end I bought some Lode tokens (equity share) and AGX coins silver money . The AGX can be converted to silver in multiple places around the world. Carry silver or gold with you on global travels seems interesting.  I signed up for a LODE credit card to be issued soon that will transact in silver. Based on Telegram site for LODE lots of neat features scheduled to roll out this year. LODE looks to be trying to stay regulatory compliant that is a big deal when you pick a digital PM backed system.

    For LODE you can buy silver or gold backed coins - I only have some silver AGX to learn and keep up with the changing technologies. The PM is vaulted and audited which the 18.2% premium to buy helps pay for.

    hope this helps

    rick

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  • Tue, Aug 04, 2020 - 2:24pm

    RandomMike

    RandomMike

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Mar 12 2020

    Posts: 71

    2

    RandomMike said:

    I thought digital silver meant you could hold it in your fingers!

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  • Tue, Aug 04, 2020 - 3:47pm

    travissidelinger

    Status: Member

    Joined: Nov 17 2010

    Posts: 181

    2

    Classic gold standard

    I might suggest not using a classic gold standard, which had gold at a fixed ratio.  But instead simply allowing the currency to gold ratio (aka price) to float on an open market, like we do now, solves the reason those standards failed.

    If you haven't read it, it's a good read and not very long.

     

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  • Wed, Aug 05, 2020 - 3:45am

    #78
    French connexion

    French connexion

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    Joined: Mar 26 2020

    Posts: 200

    1

    Silver or Gold

    We are heading to a financial calamity for which we are not prepared. Silver will be the metal of choice "for the people" once this thing gets going. Hint: it has started. For the simple reason - if a ounce of gold is worth 10.000 USD some day - it is going to be easier to control your month end budget by selling a silver coin for your needs.

    Silver was the best performing asset in July.

    Appl gained 16.51% in July

    Silver gained 29.94%

    Gold gained 10.97%

    The game is to have at least one or two stocks doing better than precious metals. Plus all the arguments against PM: big spreads, robberies...

    If you buy PM you are definitely thinking that some day there will be a panic to buy the only asset that the banks do not own - oh ya they control it through COMEX and the LBMA (London) for a time.

     

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  • Wed, Aug 05, 2020 - 7:56am

    MKI

    MKI

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    Joined: Jan 12 2009

    Posts: 254

    0

    Funds vs Stocks (or even GLD vs physical)

    Vanguard changed the fund from 80% mining and bullion to 25% in 2018 after a 10 year fall in its price, ensuring holders would not profit when it rebounded. Someone else owns the mining shares

    This is one thing I learned from 2008: always own the company stock itself, never mutual funds or other proxies. And times are actually very good for trading stocks directly - buy/sell over 100 shares, it's free, zero cost to me, using a Vanguard brokerage account.

    The web and Vanguard have come a long way here. In fact I just bought 3 stocks and then sold 3 stocks last night without much effort and zero cost to me, plus had all the data at my fingertips to make a sure buy. I will never buy a mutual fund again. Funds of all types are in a bubble, IMO...but certain individual raw stocks remain a fair value, even in this bull market. The raw stocks allow one to avoid the bubble.

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  • Wed, Aug 05, 2020 - 10:19pm

    #80

    Mark_BC

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2010

    Posts: 410

    0

    Mark_BC said:

    Another good day for gold and silver today. But the digital prices are only going up because the banks are letting them go up. How high will they let price run? When? Will it come back down? Why are they letting it rise? How does this fit into the timing of the financial reset on the horizon? Think like a central banker to figure it out.

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  • Thu, Aug 06, 2020 - 12:48am

    #81
    Dutch Boomer

    Dutch Boomer

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2020

    Posts: 104

    3

    Ban inflation and deflation forever in a simple way

    Instead of USD, EUR, etc we should get a new system where the 1 currency is fixed to 1 hour minimum wage, Then we would get US-H, EUR-H, CN-H etc. It would eliminate inflation, it would show the user of the currency how much hours he needs to work to pay it back... (so he can rethink his action to borrow) also it shows easy the real rate between countries. Like 8,6 CN-H = 1 US

    This would make the currency alive, it can relate to your own situation, like, "can you repair my roof", "sure, it will cost you 600 hours"....

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  • Thu, Aug 06, 2020 - 1:56am

    #82
    Steve

    Steve

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 27 2009

    Posts: 183

    0

    GLINT - is anybody using a Glint gold account and debit card?

    Has anybody tried the Glint card? (glintpay.com)  Please share your experience.  It really looks like a way to store gold at the most competitive premiums and spend gold in real-time using a Mastercard tied to the account.

    Please share your experience.

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  • Fri, Aug 07, 2020 - 2:57pm

    AT

    AT

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 15 2020

    Posts: 5

    0

    AT said:

    LOL all you like Chris. I appreciate your opinion on many things, but your opinion on GoldAndSilver is one I completely ignore. Not because I have a "western" mindset, but because I don't believe you understand it like you do some other areas. I would be willing to wager that I have a higher proportion of my net worth in physical gold than you do.

    I don't expect to convince those who are married to their silver; this is just a marker for those who find truth in my words and are not satisfied with the incomplete answers of those who wail endlessly about "price manipulation" and "historical GSR".

    For those who are seeking better answers search for FOFOA and FreeGold. I am simply repaying my debt to Another who opened my eyes.

     

     

     

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