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    Coronavirus: Doctors Stunned By Damage Seen Inside The Body

    The Covid-19 virus "acts like no pathogen humanity has ever seen"
    by Adam Taggart

    Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 6:35 PM

The Covid-19 virus “acts like no pathogen humanity has ever seen”

Yes, it attacks the lungs most; but it also can do severe damage to the heart, blood vessels, kidneys, gut, skin and brain.

Cardiologist Harlan Krumholz of Yale University says it “can attack almost anything in the body with devastating consequences. It’s ferocity is breathtaking and humbling”.

We also now know it has two pathways for infection, the ACE2 receptor (which is found in organs throughout the body) and the CD147 receptor on T-cells (found in the immune system).

The more we learn about covid-19, the more we realize what a formidable foe it is. This knowledge will eventually tell us how to contain and then beat it — but in the near term, it should keep us wary that the virus still likely has more surprises in store for us.

Don’t forget to get your free download of Peak Prosperity’s book Prosper!: How to Prepare for the Future and Create a World Worth Inheriting. Given its relevance to preparing for any kind of crisis, pandemic or otherwise, Chris and Adam are now making it available to the world for free. Click here to get it.

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72 Comments

  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 6:40pm

    #1
    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

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    This one's for Chris! :-)

    "How we actually maintain some sort of physical distance at the same time as certain businesses begin to open and workplaces re-adjust to the new normal — I think it will have some profound changes in society, including maybe our acceptance of people wearing masks," she said.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tam-who-defend-new-normal-pandemic-covid-coronavirus-1.5548285

    Bold my emphasis. Let us hope that this is the case, and that all your efforts to educate have, and will continue to pay off!

    Keep going Chris, you ARE making a big difference!

    Jan

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 6:46pm

    #2
    DavidPetraitis

    DavidPetraitis

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    MedCram series on Covid-19 looks really good.

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 6:47pm

    #3
    yagasjai

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    Some Porphyrias Have Issues with Skin

    Chris,

    On thought that struck me watching this video in relation to the skin issues showing up is that certain types of porphyria (there are 8) are associated with skin issues. This links in my mind with a previous video from a few weeks ago where you said that one hypothesis is that the Covid-19 is messing with the heme and kicking the iron out of the blood making it hard to carry oxygen. You said something in that video about prophyrins. And here again, there could be a connection. And given that there are 8 different types of porphyria, I wonder if that has anything do to with the wide variety of symptoms showing up. It is my understanding that porphyria can be either genetic or acquired by some kind of environmental injury (pollution, toxicity exposure), and in the case of acquired that any of the 8 pathways can be activated, but that treatment for porphyria is the same whether it is genetic or acquired. And it's my sense that porphyria itself is not well understood, so if that is a factor in this disease, it could account for the magnitude of confusion about the process in the body.

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 7:42pm

    #4
    LeftCoaster

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    Chillblains

    The lesions you mention, on the toes, of covid patients, sounds a lot like Chillblains. I had them decades ago, and they were very painful. When I just googled "covid toes", they said those with these symptoms, are not having much discomfort from them. Consider that a blessing. Chillblains used to show up many years ago, but many modern MD's have not heard of the diagnosis. At least they did not, when I was trying to figure out why I was waking up with painful lessons, that seemed to appear from out of nowhere. Fortunately, an astute ND knew exactly what they were. They resemble frost bite. I would go to bed, with intact skin, on my toes, and awaken in the morning, with excruciatingly painful blisters, on one or more toes. Walking become very challenging. I have no idea why they came and they have never returned, thank god.  I did, however, continue to wear socks to bed, to keep my feet evenly warm, throughout the night, for many years after that.  I have no idea if this new covid symptom is occurring, for the same reason, but it is possible. Keeping the feet adequately warm, seemed to make a difference.

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 7:42pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Sorry Jan

    Normalcy bias trumps masks .

    HAD to go to Home Depot today. Even now only maybe 10% were wearing masks. Very few of the employees.

    Until new data proves me wrong I am going with fewer masks in the future. That is until the 2nd worse wave hits

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 8:16pm

    #6
    Zappuppy

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    It's just the flue Bro (kind of)

    Hi Chris,

    This video failed to show the numbers around the young and covid's impact's just quoting worst case does not advance the science especially for someone wanting to know if they should send their kids to school. This matters because all infections have outliers if we just wrote/highlighted about all the worst cases no one would go outside ever.

    If you are under 50 this thing has a mortality rate about the same as the flu(2017-18). https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/09f821667ce64bf7be6f9f87457ed9aa

    I cannot find the 2017 flu's data for Sweden but here is Oz https://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]/Lookup/by%20Subject/3303.0~2017~Main%20Features~Deaths%20due%20to%20influenza~5

    Oz has about twice the population as Sweden but the Hospital system is about the same.

    The R0 is higher (for covid) so it sweeps thu the population faster which causes a sharp spike in mortality's the flu has more of a slow burn. This does not mean for the individual that one is more dangerous than the other just how quickly they are likely to catch it which then compresses or stretches the death rate over the population.

    An interesting question under 20 would you be better of catching covid or the 2017 flu? Looking at the data currently covid is the safer bet.

    Age matter's for "it's just the flu bro" as does the R0 fast burn vs slow.

    Sweden is looking like the curve is flattening (finger's crossed) https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/ I like using Sweden because it did not do a hard lock down.

    Age matters. We don't have all the data yet The US military has interesting data around mortality https://www.airforcemag.com/snapshot-dod-and-covid-19/ highlighting once again risk for the under 50's.

    So "It's just the flu bro"* come's with a caviar t

    * subject to one's age and comorbidity's and a higher R0 so it passes thru the population faster.

    Thanks for all your hard work

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 8:21pm

    DavidPetraitis

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    ACE2 in blood vessel epithelial cells MedCram

    Fits with Chris' tiday video!

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 8:24pm

    #8
    ArizonaOutside

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    ArizonaOutside said:

    Chris your video got me to do a rather odd search. I wanted to see if bats had cd147 receptors on macrophages. I didn't find that--but I found "CD147 might play an important role in the process of lung interstitial fibrosis" and "HAb18 mAbs had a therapeutic effect on lung interstitial fibrosis." This was from an article in sciencedirect.com titled: Enhancement of CD147 on M1 macrophages induces differentiation of Th17 cells in the lung interstitial fibrosis.

    What was cool is it showed pictures that looked like the autopsy photos you shared a while back of the lungs and lung tissue that looked better.

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0925443914001732#f0010

    Anyway, I thought you might like to see it. Thanks for all you do,

    Eric

     

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 9:19pm

    #9
    Zhihong

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    HCQ - where to get

    If someone is willing to try HCQ, where can he/she get it?

    - Suppose HCQ works in COVID 19 early development

    - Suppose virus test is hard to come by

    - Suppose doctors willing to write Rx for mild symptoms are rare

    - Suppose not many doctors even believe in HCQ

    It seems, sadly for many people who are not in hospital yet, waiting for COVID to run its unmitigated course (5% ends in hospital) is the only option left.

     

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 10:18pm

    westcoastjan

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    Oh I agree Mohammed...

    It is the same here re mask usage or lack thereof. It was not all that long ago when Dr. Tam was one of the mask use deniers, so saying this is in itself a profound change.

    We in the west are simply not accustomed to wearing masks, especially where the population density is no where near that of some Asian countries where not wearing a mask is seen as being rude or bad manners. There is definitely a long way to go in North America before wearing masks is normalized in any way. It is a pity it always takes a crisis to provoke behavioural change. I had hoped this first wave would do it but you may be right and it may take a second wave of the honey badger kicking people's butts to get better conformity. Perhaps the silver lining will be that at least there will be more masks available by the time that next wave hits, and there will be much much less effort needed to get people on board with using them. It may be Pollyanna thinking but what else is there?

    Jan

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 11:05pm

    #11
    Nixme

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    Could Covid be hitching a rude on RBCs just like West Nile?

    Could COVID be hitching a ride on Red Blood Cells just like West Nile does?

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 11:10pm

    #12
    DavidPetraitis

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    Disturbing rise in inflammatory cases in children - French

    https://www.midilibre.fr/2020/04/28/covid-19-certains-symptomes-ressemblent-a-la-maladie-de-kawasaki-alerte-le-centre-necker-a-paris,8866554.php

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 11:12pm

    #13
    j0equ1nn

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    Excess mortality sources

    It seems maybe you took my last comment into consideration in this video, what with spotlighting NYC and discussing potential error in total deaths, though perhaps we are just on a similar wavelength. In any case, much appreciated and thanks again for your work, Chris!

    This may sound dumb, but it was helpful just to know what the conventional terminology is for deaths that exceed normal trends: "Excess mortality." I'd been interested in this figure but unsure of how to look it up. On the other hand, searching that term doesn't seem to help much...

    The data given by your source makes sense, seems realistic, but when I share it with skeptical friends/family, they find many more articles claiming that the excess mortality is *lower* than usual. Cross-referencing such a statistic should be accessible. It is even difficult to find a source of this data that doesn't specifically discuss the virus.

    Could you shed light on what scientific sources typically track mortality and extrapolate predictions on it? This should not be a data point that journalists are entitled to much of an opinion on! And I agree that it's our best metric for measuring the fallout of this virus.

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 11:17pm

    #14
    Monakha

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    Monakha said:

    Just found this video by Dr Buttar.How true is what he is saying?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-zU04_nZhU

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 11:55pm

    tkocou

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    Interesting reading

    I downloaded the research paper quoted in the video (Analysis of therapeutic targets for SARS-CoV-2 and discovery of potential drugs by
    computational methods).
    I won’t pretend that I understand the specifics in the cellular structures, genome or other biological jargon. And the ZINC that is referenced in the paper is a research tool, not the metal.

    I was interested in the list of potential therapeutic compounds. Notably:

    Aspertame – artificial sweetener

    Riboflavin – Vitamin B2

    Sildenafil – also sold under the label of Viagra

    Surprisedly, Famotidine (Pepcid) is not on the list, but Carminic acid is listed (Red Food Coloring)

    Something else listed is Fenoterol – An inhaled bronchodilator asthma medication. Perhaps this medicine might be used as a first line defense. Who knows.

    Also listed is Atovaquone – and anti-malarial drug. Possible alternative to Hydroxychloroquine.

    All in all, the vast majority of medications listed would need a physician involved.

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 2:47am

    #16
    French connexion

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    Its about saving lives Fauci

    Dr Didier Raoult posted this yesterday. For the first 4 minutes he talks about the "deconfinement" programmed for France the 11th of May. In answering this question he is operating in his specialty. here

    https://youtu.be/FcvDi6tjldk

    He offers his analysis regarding mathematical studies done in Singapore which show that in each country the results fit a "bell curve" (courbe en cloche). He states that he is against giving predictions, (famous but) then he rambles on about epidemics during human history. We are still here. From the model, by the 19th of May France should be about 97% finished this "wave" (my addition).

    For Chris who loves statistics he shows a chart from DDI Data Driven Innovation 3min 16.

    If we are turning the page on this episode - we had better correct some of our mistakes.

    For me number

    1   You fight the battle with the drugs on hand.

    2    You don't just leave someone to die in a hospital bed without treating

    In the 19th minute he compliments the doctors treating in ICUs. He talks about this phase of the illness where they treat with anti-coagulants (one of today's topics) - he then says (and stops himself) that they also treated Hors Protocol - outside of the protocol directions (remember this) - then he quickly says but this will soon become the protocol - the utilization of immunity suppressing medications  - because you have to save lives (sauver les gens).

    Pr Dubray offered his translation of the interview here. https://www.peakprosperity.com/why-is-coronavirus-news-still-so-inaccurate/#comment-643900

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 3:00am

    #17

    gyrogearloose

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    The test stings...

    Got tested this evening, it certainly was not a pleasant moment. The tester said, "OK got the brain biopsy !"

    How did I end up there? ( we live on a small farm an hour from town)

    In preparation in Feb had booked a dental appt in early March to reduce the risks of a tooth going bad in the midst of it all.

    But the new filling failed, leading to a nasty abscess. So off to the dentist last Wed. Big perspex shield up in reception everyone wearing masks.

    Monday a cough started. Immediately hit the elderberry and zinc. Given we were down to 2 or 3 cases per day probability it was covid was very low so took no other action. But person I do most contract work for needed me for some jobs an insisted on a test. So rang up and booked a slot. 6 hr from call to test. They tested even though my cough had almost completely gone. All staff had face shields and surgical masks and gowns and I had to hand sanitize 3 times.

    Coincidently the same guy I do most of my work for was out riding his bicycle and face planted a stump. He went in to A&E. None of the staff wearing masks.  But big signs at door saying stay out if sick and to go to correct entrance.

     

    But despite all this only 2 case today 3 yesterday. As usual about half of new cases are returned travelers in arrival quarinteen. (  overall 40% of all cases were infected overseas )

    Youngest of the 19 dead was 67.

    Only 225 active case 6 in hospital 0 in icu.

    So NZ, despite importing cases from all over the world, ( so a wide selection of strains ) has a low death rate of 1.3%, half being from a high dependency care home.

    There is little scope for that number to climb much

    As there was no order from the top, mask wearing was quite low. So somewhat of a mystery  as to why we got off so lightly. Seasonal?  ( people were breaking rules and swimming at the beach as still warm)  Ozone hole giving us high UV levels ?

     

    Cheers hamish

     

     

     

     

     

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 3:10am

    David McKenney

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    Some facts about HCQ

    https://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=mcafee&type=E211US0G0&p=costa+rica+covid-19+cases

    "Nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care". This whole mess could end today.

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 3:25am

    #19
    David McKenney

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    David McKenney said:

    In Costa Rica, total deaths has remained at 6 for the whole week. They have had 705 recorded cases. The US has 1,009,727 cases with 52,578 total deaths. “No body seems to notice, nobody seems to care.”

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 5:06am

    LesPhelps

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    Stores may catch on... eventually

    Normalcy bias trumps masks .

    HAD to go to Home Depot today. Even now only maybe 10% were wearing masks. Very few of the employees.

    Until new data proves me wrong I am going with fewer masks in the future. That is until the 2nd worse wave hits.

    I have an alternative to Home Depot.  Home Depot is closer, but, at Menards, employees are required to wear masks and that either prompts more customers to wear masks, or attracts the more intelligent crowd that is already wearing masks and prefer to shop at businesses that require employees to wear masks.

    I will drive further and do all my shopping at Menards, boycotting Home Depot until they become more responsible.  I will continue to do this after the economy is reopened, whatever re-opening means.

    Home Depot may eventually notice people are avoiding their store and change their policies.

    Re-opening the economy is not going to convince me to adopt pre-Covid-19 practices.   Those days are gone, at least for now.

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 5:17am

    #21
    David McKenney

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    Remember this? The American Dream

    https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=mcafee&p=nobody+seems+to+notice+nobody+seems+to+care+lyrics#id=1&vid=9ce87ed5d04639beec98c83f13f3ddf3&action=click

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 5:50am

    #22
    US Strength

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    Any coincidence with the Gilead news(puff piece) released just as the really bad GDP number was being released?

    Not usually a conspiracy theorist but the timing of the Gilead Remdesivir announcement is surely interesting.  Its getting more air play than a GDP number that was 30% worse than the consensus expectations.

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 6:00am

    French connexion

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    I'll take it

    I am very happy to find this: law giving a doctor the right to prescribe HCQ

    link

    link

    The government of France misapplied a law decreed the 23rd of March and now they have lost in justice.

    Luckily the number of cases is now dropping and near its end - as the government is now responsible to replenish the stocks of HCQ if need be.

    https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichJuriAdmin.do;jsessionid=E8864BEB38049E0F353AA6F0674CD671.tplgfr38s_3?oldAction=rechJuriAdmin&idTexte=CETATEXT000041820848&fastReqId=647036764&fastPos=13

     

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 6:06am

    French connexion

    French connexion

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    US Strength

    Do you have a reference US Strength for the Gilead news?

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 6:20am

    #25
    French connexion

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    Gilead

    I am asking as I have been waiting to follow up on your very observation.

    I posted on the Tuesday April 21st after a Zerohedge article mentionned the failure of their product in a test trial for COVID. On the Friday morning, April 17th Gilead had a gap opening (opened at a higher price the the previous day's close) by over 11%. This juiced the stock market to a new high which it now eclipsed again. Gold was hammered down simultaneously with the good news of this "cure".

    I have been waiting for the rainy day to bring this out in the open again.

    You are quite right the GDP numbers are bad: Real Consumer Spending -7.6% ouch!

    But that does not matter for the time being, the FED has the peddle to the metal, stock futures are up 1.7% and Gold which you would have a real hard time buying the actual metal is down in the futures market.

    Don't forget this is Wizard of Oz stuff. There is a FED announcement tonight (meaning a meeting right now).

    Never give a sucker an even break. WC Fields

    PS  Boy you can't make this stuff up!

    Gilead

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 7:17am

    #26
    French connexion

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    from April 21st

    In this video Dr Didier talks about the West not being prepared for the type of virus "aiguë" (acute) that COVID-19 represents. He talks about HCQ then at the 2min43 mark he talks about Remdesivir :

    ... unless you are looking to create a new molecule

    ... Remdesivir is not (yet) manufactured and it is very, very toxic so regardless it wouldn't have its place in the treatment of a sickness like this, in 90% of the cases which are pneumonia "habituel" usual. And one ends up asking oneself if this (Remdesivir) is not some kind of virtual medication.

    Followed by a story about TripAdvisor - where a vitual restaurant got so many likes that it became the most popular restaurant in London in spite of the fact that it did not exist.

    So you have to be careful about information - there are certainly (large sums sic) billions being exchanged - it is going to work, it is not going to work...

    la chance the likelihood that this medication would be used is very faible (weak)

    then he touches on the immunological reaction to this drug is too violent (his words)

    later he mentions either you do clinical studies now - which you risk to have a solution after the battle (has finished).

    Dr Didier  video here

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 7:21am

    bbtruth

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    Menards vs. Home depot

    I had to go on a supply run yesterday and noticed something similar.  My smallish town is in rural farm country.  Most of the macho men around here seem to think they are immune or somehow tough enough to take on coronavirus with no issues....dummies.   Of the few places I went yesterday only Menards had a crowd of about 1/3 of people wearing masks and most, but not all, employees as well.
    That said, the American people are going to fail miserably at mask wearing, hand washing and social distancing.  Our instant gratification society wants corona done with and are already reverting back to form.  We have no discipline coupled with low IQs and a dangerous hubris.
    Add to the equation millions upon millions of over leveraged debt slaves that never thought their materialism and unearned greed would catch up with them, business owners that are desperate and likely deeply in debt and dependent on continuous commerce to survive, a population the majority of which cannot take care of their own basic needs because of the easy life the USA has provided them, a FED that won't allow price discovery and destroys the value of currency and  I don't see how we come out of this looking anything like what we have previously known.
    I agree Les, regardless of social stigma, I will be very careful in public and even in who I allow into my home.  I fear the outcome of our attempt at a hasty return to what was.  In time, I think we could learn more and adapt, but patience is not a American virtue.  I'm fortunate that I can hunker down for a while and I assume you can too, but how long can anyone maintain that.....It's certainly not going to get any easier and is likely, in my opinion, to get not only much worse, but so foreign to most of us that no matter the preparation, none of us are secure.  Hope is not a strategy.

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 7:35am

    bbtruth

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    other factors....

    Demographics, population density, social norms, and geography all introduce complexities that cannot be accurately modeled, tracked, or predicted.  People seem to think that the covid pandemic is linear and simple.   It is not.  We can't even say that immunity is possible at this point, nor do we at all understand the long term implications to individual health even in "recovery".

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 8:09am

    #29
    French connexion

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    Maybe Fauci should submit to a lie detector test when speaking?

    I have flipped.

    When I saw the video I posted here

    I believe in this doctor, maybe weird looking, but he is one of the best in his field.

    If the worst is over - then that explains why Fauci and company are in a big big rush to make their millions before it's game over. Because according to the model, here in France it is going to be game over by the end of May - at least for this wave. That doesn't give Fauci much time to get people worried. Because when the hospitals empty - MSM might start talking about other dangers?

    We are being played. Don't wear masks, wear masks. There will be 65 million deaths, well maybe not so many. It's like the Spanish flu - Dr Didier says no - the Spanish flu started in the SUMMERTIME. Viruses vary. Some just disappear.

    It is our turn to push back - Good Morning America

    Are our leaders worthy of our Trust?

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 8:21am

    kleymo

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    careful comparing flu and honey badger death rates

    Remember the point Chris made about comparing the two. The flu is basically ignored by society. The Honey Badger virus is most certainly NOT ignored, and still has a higher death rate, or will soon enough.

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 8:33am

    #31
    kleymo

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    a hospital in Chicago

    This past weekend I had a Honey Badger test at Thorek Hospital in Chicago (negative - but no idea if I had had it).

    Observations - the support staff was quite lackadaisical about mask wearing. Some had masks on, but the nose not covered; others had a mask on, but pushed out of the way below the chin. I asked the attending physician about it. He said it was very difficult to wear a mask all day.

    I then asked the doctor about intubation. He said they have a full ward of Badger patients right now. Recently, protocol had been changed, so no more automatic intubation. I said: "So, you are probably using those other masks to get air to the patients." Doctor: "No. They leak and we don't want to spread the virus." I wondered to him why that would matter if it saved lives. He shrugged.

    I asked about the hydroxychloroquine, also. He said one doctor had been prescribing it awhile back, but that doctor was no longer at that hospital. He said there were concerns about the heart. I said I had heard about that, but there did not seem to be studies supporting it, other countries used it as standard practice, and early studies were showing it worked if used early. He shrugged.

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 8:43am

    bbtruth

    bbtruth

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    Lazy Chicago Dr.

    Sounds like a typical moral relativist American to me.

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 9:37am

    #33
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Joined: May 17 2017

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    Menards

    It would be nice to have that option, unfortunately there is no Menards here. I usually use the local lumber yards and hardware stores ( I try to avoid Chinese outlet stores).

    Home Depot does limit the number of people in the store, they offer pickup, and they supposedly close early to disinfect, but one has to wonder how you disinfect a 50,000 sf. building full of merchandise.

    I use the big box store because it is less crowded and I can avoid aisles with people in them. Of course I use my own personal protection, mask , gloves, wipes etc.

    It is good to remember that this site is atypical. The info from everyone is pretty well vetted and fringe opinions w/o data don't travel well here. It is also good to remember that the average IQ for Amerikaans is 98. That is the average. The US education system is ranked 27th in the world, and in any given year high schools GRADUATE 25% of its students who are functionally illiterate. This is all to say I am not optimistic about the future in regards to much here.

    As has been said here many times you are on your own. I do not expect the majority to wear masks for the foreseeable future, for cultural, and intelligence reasons.

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 11:34am

    MQ

    MQ

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    Posts: 117

    7+

    Are our leaders worthy of our Trust?

    In a word--No. I, too, feel that we're being played. But by whom---or, better yet, by how many 'whoms'.  We all can see the obvious 'whoms'. But, there are bound to be many in the background.

    Hanlon's razor is a saying that reads: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

    I think we're seeing multiple examples of each. Time to say, "Screw 'em all, and the horse they rode in on.", and make a better, more simple, less dependent world for ourselves. I think that whether or not this virus was man-made, there are too many who seem to believe that a good pandemic should never be allowed to go to waste...just sayin'.

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 11:57am

    #35
    tkl

    tkl

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    natural preventatives

    In India many people habitually use turmeric and neem leaves against microbiological infections.

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 12:12pm

    #36
    RATIO_AGERE

    RATIO_AGERE

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    Joined: Mar 19 2020

    Posts: 2

    4+

    Field Report - Walmart Southern NH

    Hi PP Peeps

    unrelated to todays appreciated video - was out shopping after a while to get some stock and bearings for reality in the field. Noticed significant uptick in traffic - shockingly would say between 50% to 70% of normal vs. next to no cars on road maybe 3 weeks ago.

    Walmart - all staff wearing masks - outside 2 employees supposedly making sure store is not too crowded - parking lot was 90-100% of normal - not too bad since WM is in the woods and does not server high density area. Shoppers 90% masks - 10% who have an Mr.&Mrs. Invincible posture and unprotected.

    Stocked pretty well except for paper section, cleaning supplies, protective gear and very few food shelve spots empty.

    Heard one staff calling for social distancing enforcer to reign in on some folks in an isle - so would say they do something - certainly not with military drill or precision but ok -

    Still I decided too much risk - wanted to share - sofar no food supply disruption noticeable.

    date 28th afternoon

    safe travels!

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 12:24pm

    chloecasey

    chloecasey

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    Joined: Dec 25 2008

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    Lowe's

    I had a pickup at Lowe's yesterday evening at 6:45pm (they close at 7pm right now).  The parking lot was full!  I ordered online and then just parked in their "store pickup" location and called them and they brought my item out and dumped it in the back of my truck.  I had to wait about 20 minutes for them to come out. In the meantime I watched at least a 100 customers go in and out. I counted FOUR people with masks (or bandannas or anything over their mouth/nose). The amazing part is that two of the four with masks each had another person with them that weren't wearing a mask.  Did they flip a coin to see who got to wear it that day?  😉 The employee that delivered my order wasn't wearing a mask as well.

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 1:36pm

    #38
    Kiwi Voice

    Kiwi Voice

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    Research from Netherlands supports Dr.Chris assertion on blood coagulation

    www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/798018564/helft-coronapatienten-op-intensive-care-heeft-stollingen

    You need Google translate but it says that research has found that more of 50% from a sample of 184 patients in ICU in The Netherlands had some form of blood coagulation as a second serious disease symptom together with the Lung function.

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 3:23pm

    #39

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

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    Connecting dots: Oxidative endothelial damage, Superoxide Dismutase, and Chaga tea

    Some folks know that I became enamored with chaga mushroom, aka Inonotus Obliquus, very early on in our corona virus discussion here at PP.com.  I was introduced to this old school medicinal mushroom by Clif High, who discussed his association with an herbalist in Wuhan whose elderly cohort of patients seemed to be protected from infection by the Chaga tea he was providing them.  We know for instance that Chaga is very high on the list of food sources of the natural antioxidant superoxide dismutase (SOD).

    Dot #1 is today's MedCram video wherein Dr. Seheult describes Covid-19 as being potentially best described as an endothelial disease wherein the damage is done by oxidative stress, itself caused by the lack of inhibitory effect on Oxygen radical formation through the destruction of ACE-II.  It's all explained here;

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aj2vB_VITXQ

    Dot #2 Is the realization, as pointed out by Dr. Seheult, that one way to combat the oxidative stress is to quickly sop up the free radicals via superoxide dismutase.  What is not discussed is how to boost SOD.  This is where Chaga comes in;

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/333843352_The_pharmacological_potential_and_possible_molecular_mechanisms_of_action_of_Inonotus_obliquus_from_preclinical_studies

    The use of mushrooms as functional foods and in the treatment of diseases has a long history. Inonotus obliquus is a mushroom belonging to the Hymenochaetaceae family and has possible anticancer, antiviral, and hypoglycemic properties. Chemical analysis of this mushroom has allowed the identification of various constituents such as melanins, phenolic compounds, and lanostane‐type triterpenoids. A plethora of findings have highlighted the potential molecular mechanisms of actions of this
    mushroom such as its ability to scavenge reactive oxygen species, inhibit the growth of tumors, decrease inflammation and insulin resistance in type 2 diabetes, and stimulate the immune system.
    And this;
    Results showed that I. obliquus polysaccharides can scavenge all ROS tested above in a dose-dependent manner. IOA and its product IOA-1 could rescue PC12 cell viability from 38.6% to 79.8% and 83.0% at a concentration of 20µg/mL. Similarly, IOW and its product IOW-1 at the same dose, can also increase cell viability to 84.9% and 88.6% respectively. The antioxidative activities of water-soluble and alkali-soluble polysaccharide constituents from I. obliquus might contribute to diverse medicinal and nutritional values of this mushroom.
    Now are you interested in Chaga?  Watch the MedCram video and tell me this is not getting very, very interesting......
    Int J Health Sci (Qassim). 2018 May-Jun; 12(3): 88–93.
    Therapeutic potentials of superoxide dismutase
    Superoxide dismutases (SODs) constitute a very important antioxidant defense against oxidative stress in the body. The enzyme acts as a good therapeutic agent against reactive oxygen species-mediated diseases.

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 4:32pm

    #40

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 2368

    12+

    UVa Prof Recommends Exercise as Antioxidant, too

    Exercise May Protect Against CoronaVirus ARDS.

    In a new review of past research, Zhen Yan, a professor of cardiovascular medicine who runs a molecular exercise physiology lab at UVA, showed that exercise boosts the production of an antioxidant known as "extracellular superoxide dismutase," or EcSOD, which in turn, protects against acute lung disease and other diseases.

    In particular, Yan said, the antioxidant can protect against acute respiratory distress syndrome... ARDS affects up to 85% of patients in the ICU affected by COVID-19, the illness caused by the coronavirus.

    ...on a molecular level, exercise-prompted EcSOD protects tissues from oxidative stress, which contributes to the development of many diseases

    The pair was especially interested in the benefits of skeletal muscle EcSOD, which is produced naturally but boosted with cardiovascular exercise. Exercise can also help the antioxidant circulate through the body to other tissues affected by disease.

    Yan said their findings "strongly support" the possibility that exercise can prevent or at least reduce the severity of ARDS. Even a single session, the press release said, can spur production of the antioxidant.

     

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 4:46pm

    #41
    Mareta

    Mareta

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    USA opening up

    Been lots of debate on whether the country can open up. It's all very bizarre to be honest because the daily numbers now are not very different (in the exponential viral context) from when folks starting shutting down. Well... ok maybe its a third. But this is an exponential virus, it'll double back up in 7 days and quadruple in 14 days, so we'd be back where we started... in 2 weeks! But of course, you'd find out in 4 weeks, because it has an incubation of up to 2 weeks. By then, it might be too late.

    The other bit of info I find very strange is commentary that its ok to open up because we are 20% infected and getting closer to herd immunity. I haven't even seen any unbiased study on antibodies with a reliable test to gauge the current vulnerability of a city population to the virus that leaders/governors can reference, to make any decisions on social distancing/masks etc!

    Honestly I think the USA is headed into a very dark place because of leadership failure to unite against the virus and take a stand, it means this thing is going to linger on for a lot longer, which then translates into a lot more economic pain. The virus tail is going to be at least 2 to 3 times longer than the climb up... which could mean we're looking at 5 digit increases in case counts all the way into the fall. Geez... what a disaster!!

    Meanwhile... the stock market continues to defy gravity... when oil's fallen off a cliff, 26mill unemployment claims, large numbers of companies with no earnings guidance, its a matter of time before one would see that the emperor has no clothes! Well, I'm sure the folks on the ground, at the grassroots who are feeling the pain have a better grasp of the situation.... but no its all about the media painting a picture of everything's getting better, double/triple pump that stimulus, inflate the markets.....we're sleep walking right into a depression here.

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 4:49pm

    US Strength

    US Strength

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    Gilead announcement on CNBC 0830 April 29, 2020 https://www.cnbc.com/video/2020/04/29/us-first-quarter-real-gdp-coronavirus-squawk-box.html

    Hi French Connexion, I was watching Squawk Box awaiting the release of the US 1st Q GDP that was expected by economists to be around -3.5%.

    Just as Rick Santelli in Chicago was about to announce the figure he was cut across with a news break about positive news on Gilead trial.  When they eventually got back to him and he released that the 1Q GDP was actually -4.8% - much worse than expected - there was almost no commentary on what would ordinarily have been a huge market moving event.  And the exaggeration of the importance of the Gilead drug has just continued to deflect from the real news of the day.  The GDP number has barely been mentioned on major tv outlets including CNBC and Bloomberg.  If these two events were not coordinated I'll eat my hat.  The poor old retail investor will have been sucked back in while the sophisticated investors are building up their greenbacks and gold.

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 5:17pm

    kunga

    kunga

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    Posts: 342

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    Chaga. / JimH.

    Hi, Jim H.  We finally got our first case in Harney County, Oregon, yesterday.

    I am a chaga_gangsta, too.  Shaved head, no tats, a gang of one.  Thank you for all your good information.  I ride my stationary bike watching Chris' videos.   Superoxide dismutase, yay!

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 5:44pm

    #44

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

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    Posts: 1173

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    Prophylactic power of HCQ based on Italian data lines up well with early intervention data: 65K patients!!

    Surprise, surprise, when you are on HCQ for things like Lupus and Rheumatoid arthritis, the benefits are clear in terms of relative infection rates.  Of course this lines up well with the various studies (Indonesia and France) that show accelerated viral clearance with early treatment.  I can't read Italian, but the summary of this data comes from the excellent web compendium of HCQ data being kept by Dr. James Todaro;

        https://www.iltempo.it/salute/2020/04/28/news/coronavirus-farmaci-efficaci-news-danni-cura-annalisa-chiusolo-artrite-terapia-idrossiclorochina-sars-cov2-1321227/

    In a review by the Italian Society for Rheumatology, 65,000 patients on long term treatment with hydroxychloroquine for rheumatoid arthritis and lupus showed only 20 patients infected with COVID-19. This is an infection rate of 0.03%. Of those 20 infected patients, there were no ICU admissions and no deaths. Compared to the testing confirmed infection rate in Italy of 0.33%, this study suggests that prophylactic use of hydroxychloroquine could reduce the rate of infection by 90%.

    In case you don't have the link to Dr. Todaro's data compendium.. it's here;

    https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1O6Cls-Oz2ZAgJuyDbnICEGjMvQPEyM-aaXARUomR9Ww/mobilebasic

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 6:14pm

    #45

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

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    Posts: 1173

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    By The Way...

    I just want to remind people.. as the Truth behind the coup effort to take down President Trump takes shape that this is not a Left:Right issue... this is about good vs evil.  This is about corruption at the highest levels.  This is about power for the sake of power.  For years now, it has been my hope and dream that we could eradicate the giant, cancerous tumor hanging off our body politic in the form the Deep State.  Today we are learning more about how the Deep State took down Michael Flynn.

    It's not that I don't care about saving the bees and the oceans and planting a garden.. but all that means little if we can't have a real, honest conversation in the US, given that the US is the last place where vestiges of free speech remain.  Today our national dialogue is completely polluted with propaganda, and at least half the people don't even know that they are under it's spell.  Hydroxychloroquine is the just the latest sign post of this propaganda.

    Look at the FBI's newly declassified notes as they went in to take down Flynn with their, "interview".  Sick.  The bad guys are going down, and going down hard.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2QhLc4bNTY

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 6:14pm

    #46
    Ivan H

    Ivan H

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    Ivan H said:

    Hi, Chris. I wonder whether you have researched the topic of using smartwatches to continuously monitor blood oxygen level (SpO2) in healthy individuals? (E.g. HONOR-Band-5).

    Since the timely response to coronavirus infection is so important, and slight decrease of blood oxygen levels might be unnoticeable to an infected person for a few days, maybe the smartwatch can inform the person, make him take action sooner.

    With HCQ being a drug most effective in the first week, I think that the smawtwatch, albeit being a spying device, maybe of interest to people at risk.

    Best regards,

    Ivan

     

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 6:38pm

    DLWELD

    DLWELD

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    Posts: 15

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    Anti Malarial drugs

    With the thought that HCQ has a prophylactic effect, it'll be interesting to see the Corona stats coming out of countries like India where Malaria is endemic and the taking of anti malarial quinine related drugs is widespread.

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 6:44pm

    DLWELD

    DLWELD

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    benefits of Vitamin D

    Reading recently about well documented studies that show vitamin D having a strong anti-viral effect. We manufacture vitamin D in our skin when exposed to UV light, sunlight. Wonder if this plays into the seasonal pattern of the common flu? Wonder also if this has had an effect on the progession of Corona - heavily polluted area, pollution particles carrying the virus and limited sunlight - a good set up for infections.

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 7:13pm

    #49

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 2368

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    HCQ Post-Exposure Prevents an Outbreak in a Longterm Care Facility.

    A long-term care hospital in Korea had an "exposure event" to COVID-19 where a sick worker walked through the hospital rooms and hallways for 3 days before detection.

    This is a very high-risk setting for contagion to sweep through the facility and mortality among the elderly and chronically ill is very high.

    Prior to spread of the illness, 211 people (189 patients and 22 caregivers) were given HCQ 400 mg daily for 14 days as "post-exposure prevention" and placed in quarantine.  After 14 days, all people remained well and negative by PCR.

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 8:07pm

    #50
    rawbs

    rawbs

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    Bibliographical Data : HCQ + Azithromycin to date :D

    Interesting collection of studies of Chloroquine and Hydroxychloroquine + Zpak:

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1545C_dJWMIAgqeLEsfo2U8Kq5WprDuARXrJl6N1aDjY/preview#hcqstudiesbiblio

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 8:30pm

    #51

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2088

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    PEP/PREP using HCQ

    SP-

    Great reporting out of South Korea.  Great to have confirmation it likely works as a PEP.

    This - THIS - is an important reason why HCQ will take a long time to be seen as efficacious.  The gang in charge already knew that lupus patients (on HCQ) don't get SC2.  They've known this for months, per the CRS article I posted a few days back.

    There is only a certain amount of HCQ floating around the world.  It is critical that our elites get their supply for prophylaxis (and now, as a PEP), and that would be impossible if it were seen by the public as an effective treatment or - even scarier - as something that the general public knew would prevent you from getting infected.

    https://crstoday.com/articles/not-rated/hydroxychloroquine-for-the-treatment-and-prevention-of-covid-19/

    Earlier this year, after the outbreak of COVID-19 in China, clinicians there noticed that none of the first 178 COVID-19 patients admitted to the hospital had lupus.7 The clinicians then evaluated 80 lupus patients treated in the hospital’s dermatology department and found that none was infected with COVID-19. This observation prompted researchers to evaluate hydroxychloroquine in vitro for the treatment and prevention of COVID-19. Not only did hydroxychloroquine treat cells infected with the virus that causes COVID-19, but the drug also protected cells from becoming infected.8

    Oh sure, we'll find out the truth in six months.  Long after the pandemic passes.  Fauci will tell us, "Whoa, turns out, Trump was right.  Who knew?  But we had to do the 'science' to make double extra sure before using it widely."

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 8:47pm

    #52
    bcassell

    bcassell

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    Posts: 4

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    LOCKDOWN VS CORONA

    Chris,

    I am a little disappointed that you are posting more about the health/medical affects of Coronavirus vs the affects of a lockdown.  I read your books.  In the end its just about having access to enough food to eat.  Bad Economy = Lack of food.

    Did you see the statistics in an article about the UN World Food Program about how up to 250 million people could starve from a lockdown by the end of the year.  That is currently more than 1,000 times more people than the number that have died from the Coronavirus.

    I look forward to doing the math again at the end of the year to see the real statistics.

     

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 9:20pm

    #53

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 2368

    5+

    Zinc and HCQ (the basic science -for bio nerds)

    Thank you rawbs for the bibliographical links for Chl / HCQ studies.  Very helpful.

    Found a paper emphasizing the interrelationship between Zinc and HCQ.  Long suspected here at PP due to Zelenko and Raoults' work, brought to this site by Jim H, French Connection and others.

    Improving the efficacy of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine against SARS-CoV-2 may require zinc additives - A better synergy for future COVID-19 clinical trials

    It was nice to see a nitty gritty detailed review of the basic lab biochemistry research  connecting HCQ benefits with Zinc.

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 10:26pm

    SagerXX

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Feb 11 2009

    Posts: 451

    2+

    Dangit JimH!

    Will stop please stop giving out so much GOOD ADVICE?!?  Now I have to go study/vet Chaga mushroom medicine.

    For those who have been under a rock for the last year (or are new to the gang):  I know for a fact that JimH sent me out for Quercetin (to go with my zinc [I've been taking zinc for a couple years now]), and cordyceps mushrooms.  I'm also pretty sure either he instigated (or was part of the chorus) re Glutathione and NAC.

    I'm not saying JimH's advice has made me bulletproof.  But I feel like JimH's advice has made me bulletproof.  And no, I haven't had any tequila this evening.  As yet.

    VIVA -- Sager

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 10:49pm

    #55

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1019

    Sager

    Chaga is great advice!

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 11:53pm

    mark2

    mark2

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    Joined: Mar 06 2020

    Posts: 29

    re: from April 21st

    The "April 21" post claims Remdesivir is "very very toxic."  I am NOT an expert on this but news stories about this January and February suggested it didn't have side effects.  It didn't work against Ebola, unfortunately, but wasn't toxic, supposedly, a reason it was continued to be studied and given on compassionate case to the guy in Seattle at the start of the outbreak there.  It did seem to fix the first CV case in the US in the Seattle area.

    Hydroxychloroquine has become a political litmus test, whether one likes or detests Dr. "Clorox" Trump.  I couldn't give a F what the fake President thinks - that has nothing to do with the efficacy or lack thereof.  It does have some side effects.  I've heard / watched testimony from a variety of CV patients who have taken this, including MDs who caught the disease.  Some thought it helped, others not, some had in combination with other things.

    Sorry I don't buy the claim that downplaying hydroxychloroquine is a deep state conspiracy to ruin Dr. Trump's malpractice clinic.  I'm not interested in any political party (not even the Greens).

    Trump is suffering from Moron-a-virus-45, which is partially treatable with the 25th amendment.  Herd immunity would require critical thinking.

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  • Thu, Apr 30, 2020 - 6:53am

    albacore

    albacore

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    Joined: Jul 20 2014

    Posts: 50

    How are you comparing under 50 mortality?

    @zappuppy: I can’t see how you are making that comparison and your link doesn’t help.

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  • Thu, Apr 30, 2020 - 6:55am

    albacore

    albacore

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    Joined: Jul 20 2014

    Posts: 50

    Excess mortality in the UK

    @j0equ1nn: the source is the ONS: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending17april2020

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  • Thu, Apr 30, 2020 - 8:27am

    #59
    albacore

    albacore

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    Joined: Jul 20 2014

    Posts: 50

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    Listing the studies

    @Jim H and @rawbs

    Thanks for sharing those sources collating the various HCQ/CQ studies.

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  • Thu, Apr 30, 2020 - 8:36am

    albacore

    albacore

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jul 20 2014

    Posts: 50

    Raoult and zinc

    @sand puppy: do you have a reference for Raoult and zinc?
    I haven’t seen it yet, and it is a factor in my scepticism i.e. some insist zinc is necessary, others boost Raoult even though he doesn’t appear to use it.

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  • Thu, Apr 30, 2020 - 9:13am

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1173

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    Raoult and Zinc

    When Dr. Oz interviewed Raoult in English a week or two ago he asked specifically about Zinc and at the time Raoult was not adding supplementation to the regimen.  I do though want to make sure readers understand that lack of explicit supplementation does not imply failure of the regimen as many will have adequate dietary Zinc.  We don't know what blood level constitutes Zn deficiency in regards to Covid-19 at this point.

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  • Thu, Apr 30, 2020 - 9:27am

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1173

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    No upvotes for you Mark2

    Mark2, we deal with truth here.  You don't have to like Trump... but many of us voted for him because we wanted to end the endless wars.  In case you haven't noticed, that has been the case for the most part.  If we had not voted in Trump, then it was a sure thing that we were going to treat Syria with the same civilization-destroying medicine we gave to Libya.  I am sure you don't see that since you appear to be under the spell of the propaganda machine that I have referenced earlier, which in the case of Syria includes the White Helmets and their fake, staged chemical weapons videos.  Again, this is not left:right.. this is about Truth vs Deep State Propaganda.

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  • Thu, Apr 30, 2020 - 9:27am

    #63

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 2368

    Somebody put a link to Raoult's dashboard--it included Zinc

    I can't find this post.  Was from a French speaker on Raoult.  He was using zinc.

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  • Thu, Apr 30, 2020 - 9:35am

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1173

    Yes I saw that too Sandpuppy

    It was on the page, but the number of patients having it seemed low..  three hundred something?  If he is adding Zinc it's new in the last few weeks.

    He may otherwise be simply tracking Zinc levels... one of the other gems that I teased out of the same Oz interview (I think) was that through multivariate statistical inquiry Raoult had been able to determine that the now well known hypertension co-morbidity was not in fact the result of blood pressure itself, but was rather about being on the medication.  Although not explained at the time, I have to assume that he was able to make this important separation of factors by having blood pressure data on all of his patients, such that there would have likely existed a subset of the population with high but un-medicated blood pressure.  If this group does not have poor outcomes, it would be possible then to separate the factors, which he obviously did.

    This then makes me wonder if he has not simply started tracking Zinc levels in his patients.

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  • Thu, Apr 30, 2020 - 12:06pm

    #65

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 2368

    7+

    Letter to Governor--Allow Docs to Prescribe HCQ for SC2

    April 27, 2020

    The Honorable Doug Ducey
    1700 West Washington St.
    Phoenix, AZ 85007

    Dear Governor Ducey:

    This concerns your Executive Order forbidding prophylactic use of chloroquine (CQ) or hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) unless peer-reviewed evidence becomes available.

    Attached and posted here (https://bit.ly/cqhcqresearch) is a summary of peer-reviewed evidence, indexed in PubMed, concerning the use of CQ and HCQ against coronavirus. We believe that there is clear and convincing evidence of benefit both pre-exposure and post-exposure.

    In addition, Michael J. A. Robb, M.D., of Phoenix is compiling all reports as they come in. As of this date, the total number of reported patients treated with HCQ, with or without azithromycin and zinc, is 2,333. Of these, 2,137 or 91.6 percent improved clinically. There were 63 deaths, all but 11 in a single retrospective report from the Veterans Administration where the patients were severely ill.

    Most of the data concerns use of HCQ for treatment, but one study included used the medication as prophylaxis with excellent results. Many nations, including Turkey and India, are protecting medical workers and contacts of infected persons prophylactically. According to worldometers.info, deaths per million persons from COVID-19 as of Apr 27 are 167 in the U.S., 33 in Turkey, and 0.6 in India.

    Based on this evidence, we request that you rescind your Executive Orders impeding the use of CQ and HCQ and further order that administrative agencies not impose any requirements on the prescription of CQ, HCQ, azithromycin, or other drugs intended to treat or prevent coronavirus illness that do not apply equally to all approved medications that may be used off-label for any purpose.

    Respectfully,

    Michael J. A. Robb, M.D.
    President, Arizona State Chapter of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons

    Jane M. Orient, M.D.
    Executive Director, Association of American Physicians and Surgeons

    CC Speaker Rusty Bowers, Rep. Warren Petersen, Rep. Nancy Barto, Sen. Karen Fann, Sen. Rick Gray, and Sen. Kate Brophy-McGee

    Attachments:

    Sequential CQ / HCQ Research Papers and Reports, January to April 20, 2020 https://bit.ly/cqhcqresearch

    The probabilities of clinical success using hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin and zinc against the novel betacoronavirus, COVID-19, revised Apr 26, 2020 https://bit.ly/hcqtable

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  • Thu, Apr 30, 2020 - 12:24pm

    #66

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1173

    3+

    For Dr. Wedgwood: Turkey vs UK death rates, and a probable reason behind success in Turkey

    Looking at worldometer, and simply dividing total deaths into total cases gives a CFR or sorts, and I think it's a pretty fair comparison since both countries have about the same tests/M population, here's what we see;

    UK death rate:  15.6% (youch!)

    Turkey death rate:  2.6%

    What gives?  Well, it probably has something to do with Turkey's decision to use hydroxychloroquine early, and often, as described below.  The rate of what they are calling, "pneumonia" leading to ICU admission has dropped dramatically since they instituted HCQ early, for all Covid-19 positive citizens, in March;

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9V8pw7TN5U

     

     

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  • Thu, Apr 30, 2020 - 12:54pm

    Jfunseth

    Jfunseth

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 22 2020

    Posts: 1

    Medcram

    Excellent resource.  Very educational even if above my IQ at times. They are doing 90 minuted webinar for doctors (and anyone who cares to join) at 4:00 EST today. Subect is what's been learned so far.

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  • Thu, Apr 30, 2020 - 1:11pm

    #68
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 632

    4+

    POLITICS IS BS

    Can we PLEASE leave the politics out of these discussions. I have zero interest in ANYONE"S political views, axes to grind, opinions, hopes dreams or delusions.

    This is about data and actionable information.

    THANK YOU

     

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  • Thu, Apr 30, 2020 - 1:45pm

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2088

    10+

    turkey: HCQ + Favipiravir

    As our President might say - the numbers sure look like a smocking gun.  🙂

    Isn't it interesting how the poorer nations with fewer choices but still armed with smart people who can read, select actual functioning treatments and - see success?

    The US is too stupid to do this.  Or there is something else going on.

    I've had my foreign friends - who don't really know the US very well - express wonderment at how smart the US generally is about most things, and how horribly we seem to have blown this particular exercise.

    "Why don't you just use the drug that works?", they ask.

    A simple question, with no good answer.  It is actually pretty embarrassing.

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  • Thu, Apr 30, 2020 - 5:26pm

    Angi

    Angi

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 10 2020

    Posts: 59

    2+

    A Simple ?

    Dave - There is a good answer to the simple question you raise. The answer is that it is increasingly obvious that there is "A Vaccine Agenda" ! The clues are everywhere and obvious. It's the so called elephant in the room.

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  • Fri, May 01, 2020 - 1:33am

    #71
    albacore

    albacore

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jul 20 2014

    Posts: 50

    More excess deaths stuff

    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/04/16/tracking-covid-19-excess-deaths-across-countries

    https://www.ft.com/coronavirus-latest

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  • Fri, May 01, 2020 - 1:42am

    albacore

    albacore

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jul 20 2014

    Posts: 50

    Raoult and zinc

    @sand puppy

    I think I saw the same post making the claim about Raoul and zinc, but couldn't see anything in the links provided to back it up. Hence I suspect the claim.

    I take that point that this doesn't address the prior 'zinc' status of the patients turning up at the hospital. But hopefully you can see why it feeds a little scepticism. On the one hand boosters of HCQ say "you've got to have zinc", "that study is garbage because it doesn't talk about zinc" or "they didn't give them zinc"; at the same time, hailing Raoult as the champion of a protocol that works.

    On the face of it, that's cherry picking. Only more tests will give us a strong sense of how much improvement HCQ confers.

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