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    Bombshell! Covid-19 Virus Lab-Made? Fauci Connected?

    A recent Newsweek report raises an awfully lot of urgent and important questions
    by Adam Taggart

    Friday, May 1, 2020, 5:18 PM

One of the more acutely-asked questions since the covid-19 pandemic broke out has been: Is the virus man-made?

Debate on the matter has been wild and furious. After much investigation, Chris is now weighing in on the heels of an explosive Newsweek report.

Newsweek reveals that as recently as last year, the US funded scientists at the Wuhan Institute of Virology focused on conducting ‘gain of function’ research on bat coronaviruses.

The source of that funding? The National Institute for Allergy and Infectious Disease, headed by…..(drumroll please)….Dr Anthony Fauci, lead medical expert for America’s Covid-19 presidential task force.

Now, this doesn’t mean the virus was lab-engineered as a bio-weapon. But it does suggest a naturally-occuring bat virus could have been artificially accelerated along certain vectors.

Of course, this raises an awfully lot of urgent and important questions:

So far, Fauci has not commented on the Newsweek report. You can be certain we will be keeping close tabs on developments from here…

Don’t forget to get your free download of Peak Prosperity’s book Prosper!. Given its relevance to preparing for any kind of crisis, pandemic or otherwise, Chris and Adam are now making it available to the world for free.

To get your own copy, click here.

________________________
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266 Comments

  • Fri, May 01, 2020 - 5:49pm

    #1

    LesPhelps

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2009

    Posts: 620

    22+

    And now these same scientists and virus experts....

    are making sure that apparently effective treatments like hydroxychloroquine are banned while, at best, marginally effective, expensive treatments like remdesivir become the approved treatment for Covid-19.

    I'm officially demoralized.

    We live in a failed state.  How soon before we resemble Venezuela?

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  • Fri, May 01, 2020 - 5:51pm

    #2
    Janie-em

    Janie-em

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    4+

    "Fauci in Manhattan, A Report on the Banality of Evil"

    This video was update for our time, we have the same propaganda, just some new players.

    Your research is so helpful and insightful, Chris and Adam.

    I've been reading the technical explanation behind some of this science on the blog: harvardtothebighouse, starting with:

    A Logistical and Technical Exploration into the Origins of the Wuhan Strain of Coronavirus (COVID-19)
    January 31, 2020

    and, “No monkey ever reheated a frozen burrito” – What The Expanse tells us about the COVID-19 pandemic and serial passage gain-of-function research
    March 23, 2020

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  • Fri, May 01, 2020 - 6:11pm

    #3
    US Strength

    US Strength

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    Not something I thought I would say but: Trump was right - on two fronts

    1. President Trump was one of the first to advocate for HCQ

    2. President Trump expressed support for a tweet to "fire Fauci".

    If Trump now appoints a Special Prosecutor to inquire into the concerns raised by NewsWeek and so well explained by Chris he will both save the world (and prove that he was the medical genius all along) and find those responsible - he will get his second term in a landslide.

     

     

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  • Fri, May 01, 2020 - 6:41pm

    #4
    Prep101

    Prep101

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    Follow the money

    Follow the money. Who benefits ultimately?

    The answer leads to Bill Gates:

    https://www.corbettreport.com/gateshealth/

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  • Fri, May 01, 2020 - 6:51pm

    #5

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

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    Fellow Readers/Members

    Please forward this podcast to people you know.  Only by getting this information out will the population reach a tipping point where a majority of people will question the MSM narrative.  It won’t be us preaching it will be sharing something very interesting.

    Lastly, isn’t it interesting Event 201 came out in October, 2019, - it’s almost like this Plandemic might have been planned.

    Follow The Money

    AKGrannyWGrit

     

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  • Fri, May 01, 2020 - 6:58pm

    #6

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

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    Viral Gain of Function--Harvard2theBigHouse

    Thanks Janie-em.  GREAT article.

    “No monkey ever reheated a frozen burrito” – What The Expanse tells us about the COVID-19 pandemic and serial passage gain-of-function research

    One section of a VERY well written article by an expert.

    Even more indicative of an unnatural origin is the fact that the process of a virus transferring from one species to another, called a zoonotic jumpfollows a well-established pattern in the literature. For a virus to fully jump into a new species, several months if not years are required for the process to complete. First a variant of the virus infects one new host, an infection that will fizzle out the first time it happens since there’s no way for a virus to be immediately adapted to a novel host species. But with continued exposure, more individual infections occur, some of which produce slightly mutated variants more adapted to the biology of the new host species, until eventually a variant wins the selective virulent lottery and is able to spread easily among its new host population, killing and reproducing as it goes.

    And yet research published in 2018 found that only two-point-seven percent of villagers living about a kilometer from local bat-caves carried any evidence of past bat coronavirus infections. That study happened to examine people living in Wuhan as well, and found absolutely zero evidence of previous bat coronavirus infection at all there, making it all-but-impossible that zoonotic jumping occurred since earlier less-lethal variants of the virus would have left a wide signature in its new host population. Instead, COVID-19 emerged out of nowhere, or more likely just out of a local lab, and was immediately extraordinarily well-adapted to humans – spreading through the air with ease, killing as it went. Plus there’s the fact that all the initial victims were infected with the same variant, if a natural zoonotic jump had occurred, multiple different variants would inevitably have been found at the start of an outbreak.

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  • Fri, May 01, 2020 - 6:59pm

    #7
    rawbs

    rawbs

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    Who is Dr. Judy Mikovitz and history with Fauci

    Down and down the paper trail...........

     

     

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  • Fri, May 01, 2020 - 7:18pm

    #8
    Happy2cu

    Happy2cu

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    Virus Origin

    1. https://youtu.be/bpQFCcSI0pU

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  • Fri, May 01, 2020 - 7:44pm

    #9
    Ancient

    Ancient

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    I will probably not following up with this thread, but you need to know...

    The weak logic for non-lab-involved papers you were talking about in the video is not because that the handful of coronavirus experts in the US are stupid, but they are bought by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) and they are given the missions to make the public believe that it is a naturally occurring virus to fit CCP’s disinformation campaigns. The public will only be looking at the conclusions of these so-called ‘researches’ and believes it. Because they represent the ‘scientific community’ while you are a ‘nobody’, comparatively speaking. People like you who see what the situation really is must have a bigger platform, and your words must spread. I am a listener of the YouTube channel “路德社” and they have been reporting the truth of the coronavirus since 19 Jan 2020. They have sources from inside the Wuhan lab to explain everything about covid-19. And just recently the source has been successfully escaped China and arrives in the US, and will go public soon. If you spend some time studying this information, you will find everything I said is true and seriously I AM NOT JOKING. Please doctor, you must speak out even louder to debunk “conclusions” from these papers. This is more important than you realised.

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  • Fri, May 01, 2020 - 7:46pm

    #10

    debu

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    NIH Remdevisir Study Parameters Gamed?

    Perhaps someone better qualified than I would care to comment on the accusation made in this Tweet I stumbled upon:

    approved experimental design for NIH study contemplated "different investigational therapeutic agents". HCQ-AZT-Zn ought to have been at top of list, or at least on the list. Instead, Fauci et al hi-jacked the study to Remdesivir vs placebo. Nothing else!! archive.is/F8YLp

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  • Fri, May 01, 2020 - 8:22pm

    #11
    jerryr

    jerryr

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    Remember what we don't know

    Here's a great quote from Chris's video, about gain-of-function research:

    This isn't biomedical research. This is tinkering with a virus. This is tinkering with something that, if it gets away from you, the downside of that is a collapsed world economy and a pandemic. The upside is, oh, we learned a few things that were kind of fun and interesting. You know, all my lab mates and colleagues across my profession were kind of impressed with me. That upside is minuscule compared to the downside.

    But let's not forget what we don't know here.

    At a minimum, we can say that these experiments were very dangerous.  Even if everyone involved had the very best intentions, this was insanely bad judgment.

    And we can estimate some sort of probability -- what are the odds that such a virus just happened to emerge naturally, just at the same time as these experiments were getting under way, and in the same location? In the last century, how often has such a potent pandemic virus emerged? Well... never. SARS1, Ebola, HIV weren't even close, and even assuming that they weren't also lab creations. The circumstantial evidence here is pretty strong.

    But was it really an accident? Or did Fauci and Gates know all along, that an "accident" was completely inevitable?

    Who else was planning for an accident? The Chinese government, that accepted the money and the expertise? Or was it some sort of networking by Chinese businessmen operating under the radar of the CCP? We don't know.

    There's also no reason to discount the possibility that the virus was developed elsewhere, and released near the Wuhan lab as a cover story. Gates foundation and/or the US Government have plenty of black funding to carry out similar experiments anywhere on the globe.

    None of this is "conspiracy theory". It's just conspiracy guesswork and speculation. But it's important to keep all the possibilities in mind. Trump is blaming the Chinese. Newsweek seems to be blaming Fauci. But it might not be that simple.

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  • Fri, May 01, 2020 - 8:29pm

    dsl

    dsl

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    dsl said:

    Chris/Adam and laowhy86 really ought to have a conversation.  They are seeing different  but complementary evidence that SARS-CoV-2 is not an entirely natural occurrence.

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  • Fri, May 01, 2020 - 8:47pm

    #13

    davefairtex

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    virus origins

    To me, the coverup at the Wuhan lab tells me that - most likely - it was a lab accident.  Why have a coverup if there was no embarrassing crime involved?

    The ties to US funding sources is just nuts.  It is like us handing a gun to a child, who promptly shoots himself in the foot, and then shoots literally everyone else in the world shortly thereafter.

    Who has the responsibility?  Us, for being so stupid as to hand a loaded gun to China?  Or China, for being so clumsy as to shoot first itself, then trying to pretend it never happened, and then shooting everyone else shortly afterwards?

    But regardless, it's not "us" as a country doing the funding; there are individuals, with names, who approved funding for the research.  We might want to sort out who they are, and remove them from government service, so we aren't put at risk again.  People with this sort of thinking, with this demonstrated lack of good judgement, don't belong in positions of authority.

    And perhaps we should stop doing this research, as fascinating as it might be to those involved, because of the "potential for consequence."

    At the very least.

    I mean, it is closing the barn door long after the herd of horses has trampled us.  But - why on earth would we want to get trampled a second time?

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  • Fri, May 01, 2020 - 9:15pm

    #14
    janaia

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    COVID-19 being lab produced >> contended by by Dr. Francis Boyle in early March - 2 months ago!

    I'm glad to see Chris diving into the Newsweek bombshell. It's about time this hit the larger public. Two MONTHS ago, Dr Joseph Mercola interviewed Dr Francis Boyle, who for decades has advocated against development and use of bioweapons. He suspects COVID-19 is a weaponized pathogen that escaped from Wuhan City’s Biosafety Level 4 facility, which was specifically set up to research coronaviruses and SARS. According to Boyle, the COVID-19 virus is a chimera. It includes SARS, an already weaponized CoronaVirus, along with HIV genetic material and possibly flu virus. It also has gain-of-function properties that allow it to spread a greater distance than normal. While there have so far only been limited number of reported cases of COVID-19 infections in the US [as of late February], the US military has designated several detention sites around the country to quarantine Americans, should the situation take a turn for the worse. Here is the video interview  https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/03/08/dr-francis-boyle-bioterrorism.aspx?cid_source=dnl&cid_medium=email&cid_content=art1HL&cid=20200308Z1&et_cid=DM478050&et_rid=825366670

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  • Fri, May 01, 2020 - 10:14pm

    #15
    nordicjack

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    I am not sure how people and the rest of the world for that matter

    is not ready to over-throw the US govt.. I think its time.. violent or otherwise at this point But due to the corruption, there will be no way to take it over peacefully, SO its time to remove forcefully,   i mean guns blazing.

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  • Fri, May 01, 2020 - 10:22pm

    #16
    Confuzia

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    Conspiracy theories..... here we go again.

    The problem with conspiracy theories is that the people running away with these do not factor in simple co-incidences, of which in real life there are plenty.

    At this point in time peoples' rationality is put to the test as is and what purpose is served by feeding into these?

    Wouldn't it make sense to deal with the pandemic first and then address various issues?

     

    For all it is worth:

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

     

     

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  • Fri, May 01, 2020 - 10:42pm

    davefairtex

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    the "conspiracy theory" response

    "Confuzia"-

    Chris provided solid evidence - US funding of gain of function research on bat corona viruses that was being done just hundreds of yards away from the outbreak - of a bat corona virus now sweeping the globe!  That the CCP tried (in vain) to cover up!

    And all you can manage to come up with is uttering the magic phrase "conspiracy theory", and a plea with us to "address various issues" later.

    Is it a conspiracy theory?  Or a real issue, that we should address later?  Why should we address it later if its just a conspiracy theory?

    Or are you just throwing everything you have at Chris's evidence - and clearly you don't have much - and hoping that something sticks?

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  • Fri, May 01, 2020 - 11:24pm

    #18
    j0equ1nn

    j0equ1nn

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    Filling in some gaps

    I think you might need a weekend, Chris. This one was a little sloppy.

    The choice of articles, showing scientists unilaterally rejecting the possibility of lab creation, which is a main gripe in this video, strikes me as selective. There may be some folks saying these things to save face but they do not represent the consensus of researchers in the field, which is indeed that a lab creation is possible but unlikely (because of the temporal evolutionary distance between the virus Shi was studying and our honey badger).

    Perhaps more importantly, the video skips the stated intention of the Ecohealth Alliance project. It was not to study gain of function as a mere academic curiosity but rather: to asses the risk of and explore the prevention of exactly the situation we are currently in.

    I found the article below to be more thorough and responsible than the sources in the video.

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/04/nih-s-axing-bat-coronavirus-grant-horrible-precedent-and-might-break-rules-critics-say#

    The approach you took here invites a shift toward the grayer area of culpability, away from solution oriented thinking, and dangerously invites more political agendas into the arena. I don't think the public is equipped to think coherently about whose fault this was or what that might imply, and won't be for a long time.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 12:09am

    mememonkey

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    Don't be a Doug

    Confuzia,

    I think Professor Dave Collum friend of Chris, and the site and no small intellect's quote regarding Conspiracy Theories is apropos here:

    "I am a "conspiracy theorist". I believe men and women of wealth and power conspire. If you don't think so, then you are what is called "an idiot". If you believe stuff but fear the label, you are what is called "a coward".

    You don't get to censor inquires or discussions here using possibly the CIA's most successful psyop of all time i.e. creation of the pejorative label, "Conspiracy theorist" to ridicule doubters of the official story of the Kennedy Assassination used subsequently to provide cover and narrative control for an endless succession of black ops, false flags and other nefarious actions by unaccountable elites.

    Here, theories and arguments stand or fail on their merits considering probabilities, data and logic, not thought stopping labels.

    And the person who tries to narrow the site's Overton Window with that tired and overused label end up looking foolish, bleating about crazy conspiracies, with the irony lost on them, that it is their own stupidity that is on display.

    mm

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 12:18am

    #20
    gyurash

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    Cultural acceptance of lies?

    There is an old adage in political circles; “Deny, Deny, Deny”. Seems to be at work here, both in politics and in ‘elite professions’. It also seems that of late that outright lies have become ever more socially acceptable in western cultures. The consequences appear to be minor. It seems strange to me that an arm of the US government should choose to fund medical research in another country, unless they perhaps thought that distance offers safety. Don’t think they thought that one all the way through.

    My wife worked for a major pharmaceutical company for five years. She was involved mostly with internal audits for compliance with FDA standards. At one point their department hired a Chinese national with a PhD. Great credentials, and a nice guy. However, he was not experienced with the degree of oversight and scrutiny required of medical related businesses operating in the US. An audit uncovered serious errors in his reports. He explained that flawed work, or data that did not meet expectations was routinely discarded. He considered it acceptable to make things “look better”. He was of course fired because the FDA considers that lying.  I’m not an expert on cultures nor in China in general, but one has to ask if this is prevalent.

    The studies described in you video involved modifying viruses from bats, then reinfecting new bats with the modified virus to see if it will continue to be contagious. Live bats are small flying rodents. To check for contagiousness, you would need to keep a bunch of them together. They would need to be kept in cages, and someone would need to handle them, for collecting samples, and even just for cleaning the cages. Ever have house mice, or in an out building. They are little Honey Badgers and they squeeze through the tiniest spaces. I’ll bet bats are worse, because they fly. Suppose something really simple happens, like someone forgets to properly latch a cage. You come back into the room later to discover that 11 of the 12 bats from an open cage are hanging from the overhead lights. You never find the 12th bat. If you are operating in a cultural environment that says it is acceptable to make things look good, then what you do is claim there always had been just 11 bats in the cage. I can’t say this is what actually happened, but we are all just human. It could all too easily be true.

    I will be shocked if anyone ever comes clean on this.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 12:21am

    #21

    davefairtex

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    public can't think coherently??

    joe quinn-

    The approach you took here invites a shift toward culpability, away from solution oriented thinking, and dangerously invites more political agendas into the arena. I don’t think the public is equipped to think coherently about whose fault this was or what that might imply, and won’t be for a long time.

    Ooooh.  The public is unable to think coherently.  And you're worried about dangerous political agendas.  We should really, really trust the apolitical, no-axe-to-grind, un-conflicted subject matter experts, is what you are saying.

    Well.  I'm a member of the public.  And I can think coherently.

    Just try me.  Try facts.  And evidence.  Not hyperlinks.  Lay it out for me in your own words.

    Make your case using reason, logic, and science.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 12:36am

    #22

    SagerXX

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    All these new members...with untold HOURS of tenure...

    ...coming in to debunk or discredit, straight up or subtlely.  Serious?  This is the best you got?

    Perhaps more importantly, the video skips the stated intention of the Ecohealth Alliance project. It was not to study gain of function as a mere academic curiosity but rather: to asses the risk of and explore the prevention of exactly the situation we are currently in.

    So, people form a study group about how to not burn down the barn, and those people succeed in burning down the barn (by accident or out of malice, whatever)...  Who cares what the intent was (benign or malign), the outcome was heinous.

    This "review" of Dr. Chris' work is kinder than the one a few comments prior ("I think you need a weekend.  I say this with empathy." >rolling eyes<), but it still reeks of sock puppetry.  Is that a good paying gig?  Undermining honest intellectual inquiry as to the state of things in this mad and maddening world?

    Get lost, y'all.  Go plant a garden.  You're gonna need one too.  You think your paymasters give a tinker's cuss about your eventual end?  I say this with empathy.

    I planted cassava, squash, kalo, garlic chives, turmeric, and vetiver today.  In rain and sun and with my delighted 3 year-old by my side. Not even my own garden, just helping out a friend and her fam.  A fine day on the human scale, out in the elements.  Go find your humanity -- I wish for you the same.  Soon as you get out from underneath the false sun of your laptop.

    VIVA -- Sager

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 1:22am

    j0equ1nn

    j0equ1nn

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    j0equ1nn said:

    I live in an apartment in New York City. I can't plant a garden. My interest is in survival and facts I can do something with so that less of my friends and neighbors die, which is what attracted me a couple months ago to this site.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 1:43am

    #24
    David McKenney

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    David McKenney said:

    I was remembering all the talk and analysis of the 9/11 event. It went on for years. I believe that the final thought that stood out firmly, meaning we could "hang our hat on it" was building #7. It was a controlled demolition.

    What about this situation? There is plenty of evidence from all over the world that HCQ + Zinc works quite well with few if any problems. Fauci is against it. I rest my case.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 1:54am

    #25
    ppuser2020

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    Maybe, but I think chimera is more likely

    While showing the personal links between some of these researchers and funding organizations is valid reporting, there's a bit too much of the "conspiracy nutter" in the tone.  Dr. Martenson should be using the same level of skepticism on these reports' conclusions as he does on the Chinese case/fatality reporting.

    I have long thought that the SARS-CoV-II virus is a chimera, in part because of its size. Quick background: a chimera would be created if a host cell were infected by more than one virus; the hijacked cell machinery would make the components of both viruses and do its best to assemble them (not all, or even many, would be viable).

    There is an old (2010) article describing the original SARS-Cov as a possible chimera (the conclusions section is frighteningly prophetic) <https://jvi.asm.org/content/84/7/3134>

    There's an article at "The Conversation" covering the possibility <https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-origins-genome-analysis-suggests-two-viruses-may-have-combined-134059> and links to a preprint <https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.02.17.951335v1>

    Of course, a natural origin is not nearly as much much fun as finding some humans to blame.  How may "witches" have been burned in that cause?

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 2:11am

    #26
    Galene77

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    (Excellent expose Chris/Adam 10/10)

    So you need to package a political narrative to keep the 99% pacified…

    Which works best?

     

    A). SARS Cov 2 is a nasty terrible virus that is an act of nature, it was always going to happen spontaneously and it has had a cataclysmic outcome, however isn’t the planet a nicer, cleaner, brighter… greener environment as a result.

    B). SARS Cov 2 is a nasty terrible virus that is a lab born experiment gone catastrophically wrong, its research that should have been banned from the outset, it has had a cataclysmic outcome, however isn’t the planet a nicer, cleaner, greener… environment as a result.

     

    We all know the players who benefit from this outbreak, oligarchs, bankers, five eyes backed politicos of all colours hues and perspective. They are all in the same club, and you’re not in it.

    We all knew life on a finite planet was no longer working for the increasingly poor, disfranchised and as Kissinger defined it “Useless Eaters...”

    The grand cull is in traction, welcome to the Depop/Defrag 2.0 global agenda.

    What can you do about it?

    First think of yourselves as you truly are - gladiator slave performers bound to entertain in a global amphitheatre…

    So smile and kneel as you take your Gates/Fauci/Brix/ endorsed vaccines, which will be an annual subscription based deal for sure.

    It’s for the greater good.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9_gY43iIns

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 2:41am

    Confuzia

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    reply to davefairtex

    Is it a conspiracy theory?  Or a real issue, that we should address later?  Why should we address it later if its just a conspiracy theory?

    At this point in time we are dealing with an ongoing pandemic, so on the list of priorities where would you place addressing/investigating conspiracy theories?

     

    Or are you just throwing everything you have at Chris’s evidence – and clearly you don’t have much – and hoping that something sticks?

    We sure are gaining more and more knowledge of the SARS CoV 2 virus as the pandemic progresses. I t just makes more sense to wait and gather more information.  Once this pandemic is over people will be (hopefully) more rational and therefore in a far better position to investigate - and remove political agendas, which unfortunately can be found at the root of conspiracy theories.

     

     

     

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 3:18am

    wildtravel

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    Case Closed

    Thanks SandPuppy and Janie-Em.  That information presents a pretty compelling case that SARS COV 2 could not possibly have originated in nature, but almost certainly originated as the bastard child of its architects, the United States National Institute of Allergies and Infectious Diseases (NIAID)

    Now that we have the smoking gun proving who commissioned, funded, and defined safety protocols for enhancement of function genetic engineering of the SARS COV virus at the Wuhan Institute,  who cares about who, how or why it slipped out of the lab?

    It seems Dr. Fauci owes the whole world an explanation why, in full awareness that the risks of this happening were never zero, NIAID  went ahead anyhow?

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 3:46am

    #29
    David McKenney

    David McKenney

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    Joined: Mar 25 2020

    Posts: 79

    Where do they come from?

    This seems like a "dumb" question but here goes: So our bodies consist of 6 trillion cells and we contain 60 trillion bacteria and 360 trillion viruses. Since viruses don't reproduce, where do they come from?

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 4:10am

    Chris Martenson

    Chris Martenson

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Jun 07 2007

    Posts: 5150

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    Thank you Mememonkey

    ...but I fear that you might have been a bit harsh here:

    ...that it is their own stupidity that is on display.

    They could just be a coward?

    🙂

    But more seriously for potential new folks here, I presented a lot of data.  Grant proposals, official documents, and links to everything.  This is 'our way' here at Peak Prosperity.  If you want to challenge anything - feel free! - but you won't get very far without actual data and sources.

    One item I focused on was an NPR 'article' aimed at the masses that presented 10 'leading scientists' who all agreed that it was unlikely that the virus came from a lab.  Not one dissenting voice.  No alternative questions.  Nothing on the ultra-shady backgrounds of the main scientists quoted.

    The other was a study/editorial in Nature, the leading scientific journal of our times aimed at the scientific/intelligentsia class.  It too had no doubts about the natural origin of the virus.

    I didn't have time to get to it, but the entire position of the Nature paper was framed around the RBD  of the S1 protein subunit and made the case that since it matched the pangolin coronavirus S1 RBD it must have come from there, not a lab.

    Wut?

    They spent zero time explaining their theory about how a bat and a pangolin got together in the first place to create this chimera virus.  And not just any bat, but a horseshoe bat from a specific region where - coincidentally - all the bat coronavirus research and gathering was taking place.  And not just any horseshoe bat from that cave, but one with the RaTG13 version of SARS.

    And then - mystery of all mysteries - SARS2 had to have, somehow, magically, have gained a brand new, ultra-efficient furin cleavage site not found in any closely related coronaviruses.

    In fact, it's one of those dreaded 'inserts' rather than a set of replacement mutations where one amino acid is swapped out for another.

    That "PRRA" insert sequence followed by RS is the thing that takes my breath away.  It's the smoking gun, and every journalist interested in chasing this down needs to focus like a laser on that short sequence and stick to it.  Don't ask any other questions.

    It is *that* which confers the ridiculously strong ability of HB-19 (SARS2) to gain entry to cells.

    From an exhaustive and extraordinarily well-done article on the whole affair:

    (Source)

    And here's why that's important; the virus has a two step process to gain entry into a cell.  It must first bind the receptor, in this case ACE2 or CD147, and *then* it has to have a protease from the host perform a very careful snip at a very specific spot.  This allows the virus membrane to fuse with the host membrane.  If that doesn't happen, no entry, no infectivity, no problem.

    From the same source as above:

    The fusion process is started by the fusion peptide marked in yellow, but in order for it to engage in its dirty deed, someone must cut the S protein at one of the sites marked by diamonds in the diagram above. The virus does not have its own such “cutters”, so it relies on various proteases of its victims. There are several types of such proteases, as can be deduced from the abundance of colors of those diamonds. But not all proteases are equal, and not all types of cells have proteases needed by the virus. Furin is one of the most effective, and it is found not only on the surface of cells, but also inside.

    [I]n the case of CoV2, thanks to the furin site, it is not two, but three classes of proteases  that can cut its S protein outside the cell. But perhaps the most important difference is that furin is also present inside the cell, so it can cut the S protein immediately after virion assembly, thereby providing new virions with the ability to merge with new cells right off the bat (no pun intended).

    It is the furin cleavage site that gives this virus its extraordinary transmissibility.  Sure the ultra-efficient, high binding-affinity RBD is important, but it's the furin cleavage operating both inside and on the outside of the cell that really pushes this whole thing into some brand new, high gain-of-function territory.

    The Nature paper was written by five of the most prominent virus research scientists and it passed peer review and somehow they skipped right over the profound oddness of furin cleavage site.  They simply mentioned it's there.  Weird, right?

    So the mysteries mount.

    Somehow the right bat with the right coronavirus had to find a pangolin and somehow a zoonotic species jump had to occur.

    Then some other magic had to happen for the virus to gain a furin cleavage insert that conferred an enormous gain-of-function to it.  Then the whole thing had to jump to humans.

    Oh, by the way, furin cleavage motifs have been inserted into other viruses by researchers many times in the past, including into SARS (classic) by American researchers, so there's that.

    In closing, this video stirred up quite the hornet's nest.  So many CCP/NIH trolls on my Twitter feed this morning.  A few will be showing up here as well.  Be kind to them, they are probably earning substandard wages for their efforts.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 4:47am

    LesPhelps

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2009

    Posts: 620

    2+

    No monkey ever reheated a burrito

    Thanks Sand Puppy.  Through that link, I found JC on a bikes YouTube channel,  I loved his video on this subject.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 4:48am

    #32
    Chris Martenson

    Chris Martenson

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    Joined: Jun 07 2007

    Posts: 5150

    23+

    The Trolls Need Help!

    Dear community - the trolls desperately need your help.

    Here's how they work.  They are tasked with muddying the waters of content that their employers don't like.

    They might work for a corporation, a three letter agency, or a foreign government.  They might be prisoners in China, or they might be in a cubicle at Facebook.  That doesn't really matter, but it's interesting to note.

    Job #1 one is to cast a variety of shade, or aspersions, against the content.  It's very rare that they do this by using actual countervailing facts or arguments.  More often it's by one of several tactics such as (a) claiming that the public will somehow be harmed by the material (but not *they* themselves, of course, just 'the public') or (b) making an ad hominem or personal attack of some sort ("Chris, liked your work 'till now, but you really lost me here!") or (c) just tossing in links meant to drag you away form the content or (d) pulling out the old 'show stopper' of calling something "a conspiracy theory."

    Job #2 is to create conversation around their diversions and deflections.  I think this is how they are measured by their controllers.  It's how I'd do it.  You get a penny for every time you force someone to respond to you distractive nonsense.

    Job #3 is to create traction around their point of view.  Voting really helps because that creates the appearance of traction.

    Here's today's examples from this site.  Note that one easily spotted feature of a troll is that they often (but not always) have brand-new accounts.

    Example #1:  A brand new account is "liked" by another brand new account (could be same person).

    Example #2: Another critical comment liked by both itself and the same other brand new account.  See how they are gaining in numbers and traction?

    And here are some from Twitter this morning.  The feature of most Twitter trolls is that they have very few followers, most of which are probably automatic back-follows.  The high following-to-follower ratios are a dead give-away:

    ---------------------------------------

    ------------------------

    ----------------------

    Most of the above strike me as CCP trolls.  Stilted language, complete lack of data or logical arguments, and very odd 'bios' combine to give that appearance.  Of course, they could be bots too.  Hard to say anymore in the deep-fake world.

    At any rate, just something to which I am pretty much immune these days.  The big world of trolling needs a convention so they can discuss best practices and find a way to up their game.  Too obvious these days.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 4:57am

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2075

    13+

    thanks for the suggestion

    "Confuzia"-

    At this point in time we are dealing with an ongoing pandemic, so on the list of priorities where would you place addressing/investigating conspiracy theories?

    Well since you already admitted that this is a real issue, and not a conspiracy theory, I'd put this real issue right at the tippy top of the list.

    We sure are gaining more and more knowledge of the SARS CoV 2 virus as the pandemic progresses. I t just makes more sense to wait and gather more information.  Once this pandemic is over people will be (hopefully) more rational and therefore in a far better position to investigate – and remove political agendas, which unfortunately can be found at the root of conspiracy theories.

    Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't feel the need to wait any longer.

    So how much do they pay you guys?  Is it on a per-post basis?  Or are you paid hourly?  And is the content composed for you, or do you come up with it de novo?  Or is it a cut & paste thing?

    Just curious.

     

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 5:28am

    #34
    Tony McPherson

    Tony McPherson

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    Joined: Mar 23 2020

    Posts: 22

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    origin of the virus

    There is a you tube video which has been around for a few weeks  It is produced by a guy that lived and worked in China for years.  I do not speak Chinese but he makes a reasonable case for the accidental release of the virus from the research lab in Wuhan.

    I generally believe the theory that the simplest explanation is the best one.  I have seen personally how lax people can be with potentially dangerous pathogens.  Years ago I was in a lab at a sewage treatment plant and the staff used the same oven that they dried sewer sludge samples to heat their lunch.  I know that this is anecdotal but people tend to become lax as they become more familiar with dangerous things.

    When you couple the fact that the lab in Wuhan was being funded to study the very type of pathogen(How stupid is a person who believes that making a virus more deadly is a worthwhile undertaking?) which we are dealing with and the original location of the outbreak it just adds to the mounting evidence for the source of the virus.  It is time to hold the officials involved accountable.

     

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 5:31am

    #35
    Matt B

    Matt B

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    Joined: May 02 2020

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    13+

    follow on questions to this blog post;

    Hi Chris,

    I've been waiting for someone to do this scrutiny and I thought you did it very well,

    I followed every word!

    but it generated two follow on questions for me;

    #1 if the whole purpose for GOF research is to create a new virus so they can create a counter measure for it to add to their toolkit of defences....

    how many vaccines have they ever successfully developed to create a counter measure for the new threats they've succeeded in creating?

    #2 if this virus did turn out to have escaped from this Wuhan lab, seeing as there appears to be US funding and involvement in the research into GOF happening there...

    if a finger of blame is to be pointed shouldn't it point at both China & the USA in this instance?

    footnote: as a UK citizen I'm under no illusion that our biological research labs such as Porton Down aren't involved in this tomfoolery and biological russian roulette either.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 5:38am

    #36
    TamHob

    TamHob

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    Joined: Feb 13 2020

    Posts: 37

    8+

    so biology isn't my field...

    But, it has always seemed sus that such a perfectly-adapted-to-humans virus (two receptor binding sites for two completely different cell types, the furin cleavage etc) managed to spring fully formed into existence with no intervening period of spreading at a lower functionality. Also, the fact that it seems to be reasonably infectious to a wide range of mammals (tiger, domestic cat, dog, mink) and yet has only spread now from a relatively small source?

    For what it's worth, I kind of thought it might have been an accidental release of a virus that the lab was tinkering with to try and create a very mild virus for the purpose of delivering gene therapy. I think gene therapy is horrendously risky but compared to gain of function research it seems positively restrained. Gah!

    As for the justification of 'finding new treatments' - given how specific most disease treatments are what is the point of creating franken lab diseases in order to maybe find treatments for them? By definition the diseases we need treatments for are the ones out in the wild.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 5:50am

    #37
    David McKenney

    David McKenney

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    Posts: 79

    5+

    50 million pills

    If 50 million pills are coming our way from India and we aren't allowed to have them, who do you suppose will get them?

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-india-hydroxychlor-idUSKBN22C2LN

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 7:11am

    #38
    Hladini

    Hladini

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    Posts: 185

    3+

    Bioweapon v. Natural Virus

    To Confuzia,  It's important to know where the virus came from and whether it's a bioweapon.  Anytime I start to get lax about my PPE or see my partner get lax, I just have to remember this could be a bioweapon.  I may take my chances on laxness with a natural virus, but not with a bioweapon.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 7:15am

    #39
    Tony McPherson

    Tony McPherson

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    Joined: Mar 23 2020

    Posts: 22

    1+

    50 Million Pills

    I would guess that HCQ is getting a new look by physicians who are treating people for Rheumatoid Arthritis or some other autoimmune diseases.  There are a lot of people who could use a less expensive alternative to current pharmaceutical treatments.  I have actually thought of talking to my doctor about this to control joint pain and inflammation.  I will not do this until the need subsides.  There is a friend of my daughter who has Lupus and has been taking this medicine for years.  With all of the hype she is only allowed to buy a 15 day prescription instead of a 90 day supply.  I am not sure if this is the pharmacy or the insurance company who is reducing the amount.  Also the HCQ discussion for Coronavirus is not over yet.  It may turn out to be like masks.  Who knows where we will go from here.  If I were India I would manufacture as much of the drug as possible.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 7:25am

    Hladini

    Hladini

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    Posts: 185

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    The Deck is Stacked

    ....1nn,  You are right.  The public is not equipped to think coherently.  But you can't blame the general public.  I've coined a phrase:  We have been vaccinated, medicated, flouridated, chlorinated, fed shit for food and shit for news, how can you blame the public?

    Knowing whether or not this virus is weaponized or naturally occurring may change people's behavior and level of commitment to maintaining PPE protocols.  For me personally, I'm much more worried of catching a weaponized virus than a naturally occurring virus.  But that's just me.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 7:31am

    Hladini

    Hladini

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    Joined: Dec 28 2011

    Posts: 185

    4+

    Can't Do v. Can Do

    Yes you  can plant a garden.   Check out empty lots.  Check out the LA warrior road side gardner.  Check out the roof tops.  Check out sprouts.  Check with the neighbors.  Check out the Churches.  Or get the hell  out of dodge.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 7:48am

    Hladini

    Hladini

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    Joined: Dec 28 2011

    Posts: 185

    7+

    Planned Demolition of the Economy?

    Sometimes it sure does feel like a planned demolition of the economy!  So many coincidences.  Event 201, Crimson Contagion, Dark Winter, NORAD games on 911, and Bomb simulation in London on 7/7 - all simulations of events that actually happened right afterward or during a simulation.

    One thing is certain, there's more we don't know than what we do know and that is by design.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 8:10am

    #43
    JWhite

    JWhite

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    Joined: Jul 12 2016

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    The Coronavirus Is Man Made According to Luc Montagnier the Man Who Discovered HIV

    I have read several statements made by doctors that the Coronavirus appears to behave as if it is more than one virus.....

    A couple of segments from an article in Gilmore Health News:

    "Professor Luc Montagnier, 2008 Nobel Prize winner for Medicine, claims that SARS-CoV-2 is a manipulated virus that was accidentally released from a laboratory in Wuhan, China. Chinese researchers are said to have used coronaviruses in their work to develop an AIDS vaccine. HIV RNA fragments are believed to have been found in the SARS-CoV-2 genome.

    “With my colleague, bio-mathematician Jean-Claude Perez, we carefully analyzed the description of the genome of this RNA virus,” explains Luc Montagnier, interviewed by Dr Jean-François Lemoine for the daily podcast at Pourquoi Docteur, adding that others have already explored this avenue: Indian researchers have already tried to publish the results of the analyses that showed that this coronavirus genome contained sequences of another virus, … the HIV virus (AIDS virus), but they were forced to withdraw their findings as the pressure from the mainstream was too great."

    The Coronavirus Is Man Made According to Luc Montagnier the Man Who Discovered HIV

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 8:30am

    Angi

    Angi

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    Joined: Apr 10 2020

    Posts: 59

    2+

    5G Connection?

    Here's a good article on 5G and possible implications with the virus. https://drsircus.com/coronavirus/5g-didnt-cause-the-coronavirus-pandemic-but-it-probably-made-it-worse/

    Reference to the previous post of  JWhite - I watched a fascinating documentary on Youtube about Dr. Montagnier - I think it was called the memory of water. I've been thinking about that in relationship to the 5G connections. If you think about it, there was a big rollout of 5G in Wuhan. Cruise ships, hospitals, military, all are hotbeds of 5G. This bears more inquiry by curious minds and some serious dot connecting IMO.  I will look for the documentary mentioned and make another post.

     

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 8:34am

    j0equ1nn

    j0equ1nn

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    Joined: Apr 28 2020

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    2+

    j0equ1nn said:

    Chris and Adam, I'd corresponded with you briefly via email about my need for info in my current situation. I'm particular, I wanted to know if it was worthwhile to get a paid account on here as a working class individual looking to help my community in New York City, or if it is geared more toward the economically privileged. I've greatly appreciated the info, and I honestly believe it's saved lives among people I know, as I was able to get out NPI info out much earlier than otherwise possible. But I think I laid out my dissent to your video pretty clearly and do not see that dissent addressed thus far. If the idea is to dismiss me as a troll, my response will be to keep my distance from this community and look for better sources of information.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 8:36am

    Angi

    Angi

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    Joined: Apr 10 2020

    Posts: 59

    Water Memory - Luc Montagnier

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 8:39am

    #47
    French connexion

    French connexion

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    Joined: Mar 26 2020

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    Dr Montagnier

    Zerohedge had its Twitter account reneged for talking about the very subject of your post Chris.

    There was an Indian team which had published a paper that the genome COVID-19 had inserted in it parts of the HIV virus. They were attacked by the Chinese, they had to retract and annul the paper.

    Then on French TV the Nobel prize winner for discovering the HIV virus spoke to a group. Perhaps I posted this here? You would think that he would be very qualified to comment and recognize HIV - included in COVID-19.

    Dr Luc Montagnier here scroll down and there is an interview in French. He mentions the Indian paper - with which he agrees. Minute 6, he mentions that nature eliminates that which is not of natural origins. Later in the interview he mentions "les ondes" as a way of getting rid of the HIV added on part of the genome.

    French VIH = HIV

    SIDA = AIDS

    ADN = DNA

    I looked back on a friend's facebook page to find where I first heard Dr Montagnier speak about this around April 16th.

    https://www.pourquoidocteur.fr/Articles/Question-d-actu/32192-Revelations-l-origine-SARS-CoV-2-Luc-Montagnier-Nobel-marginal-habitue-polemiques

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 8:50am

    #48
    French connexion

    French connexion

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Mar 26 2020

    Posts: 176

    Sorry about that, here is the second interview

    #CNEWS #Covid19 #Luc #Montagnier manipulation humaine ?⚠️ Philippe Lacoude #Démystifier #Pour #Les #Nuls #For #Newbies #Debunk ⚠️ 😅😅😅"Le SRAS-CoV-2 contient des gènes du VIH-1 (a été conçu ?) : c'est la nouvelle théorie de la conspiration de l'époque. D'innombrables personnes l'ont affichée sur leurs murs depuis ce matin. Normalement, la loi de Brandolini - alias le principe d'asymétrie de la connerie - impose qu'une conspiration comme celle-ci nécessite un travail acharné pour être démystifiée. Mais, dans notre cas, ce n'est pas le cas. Il est très simple à démanteler.H0 : certaines séquences de nucléotides du VIH-1 peuvent être trouvées dans le génome complet du SRAS-CoV-2 (selon une citation de pr. Luc Montagnier (prix Nobel de médecine, 2008)Prenons le génome complet du SARS-CoV-2 (Wuhan), séquence de référence NCBI NC_045512.2.Considérons la version ARN du VIH-1, séquence de référence NCBI NC_001802.1.Lançons le programme MegaBLAST du National Institute of Health (NIH). Le Basic Local Alignment Search Tool (BLAST) permet de trouver des régions de similarité entre les séquences biologiques. Le programme compare les séquences de nucléotides ou de protéines aux bases de données de séquences et calcule la signification statistique de ces similarités.Conclusion : H0 est rejeté à 99% CI.Maintenant, y a-t-il des séquences du VIH-1 qui seraient similaires à d'autres séquences du SRAS-CoV-2 si nous changions le critère ? La réponse est évidemment oui, car les deux virus - même s'ils appartiennent à deux familles complètement différentes - ont une enveloppe glycoprotéique. Donc, oui, la partie du VIH-1 et la partie du CoV-2 du SRAS qui codent les deux (différentes) enveloppes glycoprotéiques sont similaires, à environ 90%. (Voir par exemple la glycoprotéine de l'enveloppe de l'isolat XJ16-6 du VIH-1).CEPENDANT, cette séquence particulière se trouve AUSSI dans le Coronavirus humain 229E (rhume) ou dans le Coronavirus humain OC43 (également rhume).Ce qui soulève la question suivante : le Hu-CoV-229E et le Hu-CoV-OC43 ont-ils également été mis au point dans un laboratoire de Wuhan ? Si oui, le rhume est-il une conspiration du Parti communiste chinois visant à nous faire sentir malheureux une fois par an pendant quelques jours ?SARS-CoV-2 (Wuhan) : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/1798174254VIH-1 : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/9629357 Coronavirus humain 229E : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/12175745Coronavirus humain OC43 : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/NC_006213.1--------------The SARS-CoV-2 contains genes of HIV-1 (therefore at has been engineered): it’s the new conspiracy theory of the day. Countless of people posted this on their walls since morning. Normally, Brandolini's law – a.k.a. the bullshit asymmetry principle – imposes that a conspiracy like this takes hard work to debunk. But, in our case, it does not. It is very simple to debunk.H0: some nucleotide sequences of HIV-1 can be found in the complete genome of SARS-CoV-2 (per a quote from pr. Luc Montagnier (Nobel prize, medicine, 2008)Let’s take the complete genome of SARS-CoV-2 (Wuhan), NCBI reference sequence NC_045512.2.Let’s consider the RNA version of the HIV-1, NCBI Reference Sequence NC_001802.1.Let’s start the program MegaBLAST from the National Institute of Health (NIH). The Basic Local Alignment Search Tool (BLAST) finds regions of similarity between biological sequences. The program compares nucleotide or protein sequences to sequence databases and calculates the statistical significance of said similarities.Conclusion: H0 is rejected at 99% CI.Now, are there any sequences of HIV-1 that would be similar to some other sequences of SARS-CoV-2 if we changed the criterion? The answer is obviously yes as both viruses – even if they are from two completely different families – have a glycoprotein envelope. So, yes, the part of HIV-1 and the part of SARS-CoV-2 that encode the two (different) glycoprotein envelopes are similar, at about 90% or so. (See for instance the HIV-1 isolate XJ16-6 envelope glycoprotein.)HOWEVER, this particular sequence is ALSO in the Human Coronavirus 229E (common cold) or in the Human Coronavirus OC43 (also common cold).Which begs the question: have Hu-CoV-229E and Hu-CoV-OC43 also been engineered in a Wuhan lab? If yes, is the common cold a Chinese Communist Party conspiracy to make us feel miserable once a year for a few days?SARS-CoV-2 (Wuhan): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/1798174254HIV-1: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/9629357 Human Coronavirus 229E: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/12175745Human Coronavirus OC43: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/NC_006213.1

    Posted by David Myshkin on Friday, April 17, 2020

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 8:53am

    #49
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Posts: 497

    6+

    Do Not Feed the TROLLS

    It is a waste of bandwidth and my time to scroll through crap for something that might be important.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 9:06am

    French connexion

    French connexion

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Mar 26 2020

    Posts: 176

    RainGarden

    This video blocked in your country. Bummer.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 9:12am

    stevedaly

    stevedaly

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    stevedaly said:

    NIH is part of the structure of Health and Human Services.  Any idea of what is the HHS budget size?  How about $1 Trillion? The size of the annual US budget deficit.  So what did we get for our $1 Trillion?   How about 238,000 worldwide deaths and growing?  How about a worldwide multiyear super economic depression?  Thank you Dr. Fauci.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 9:23am

    #52
    French connexion

    French connexion

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Mar 26 2020

    Posts: 176

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    US involvement

    With about 12min20 remaining in the video interview

    Dr Montagnier says That the US government financed "en partie" in part the research done at Wuhan".

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 9:27am

    stevedaly

    stevedaly

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    Joined: Apr 23 2020

    Posts: 64

    What's the reason given for the suspension?

    Thanks for the link.  Interesting to see the reason given for the suspension.

    "There are now allegations that the current crisis was precipitated by the release from Wuhan Institute of Virology of the coronavirus responsible for COVID-19. Given these concerns, we are pursuing suspension of Wuhan Institute of Virology from participation in federal programs."

     

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 9:33am

    taz1999

    taz1999

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    conspiracy theorist, denier, truther

    I'm any of these depending on the topic at hand.  I loved the,  has to be natural  because computers could not come up with it.  Long time ago, source forgotten, someone was defending climate models with, it has to be CO2 because we couldn't think of anything else.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 10:22am

    #55
    stevedaly

    stevedaly

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    Why reconstruct a virus in a way that would not occur in nature?

    The original authorization for the grant to the Wuhan facility was to allow bat populations in the lab to create virus with a gain of function through natural occurring processes, a gain of function that could allow transmission to humans.  Why then should this Chinese facility create a new virus through recombination that does not resemble anything normally in nature (because of the introduction of a cleavage function in the middle of a chain)?

    As Dr. Martenson describes it in his earlier comment: "Then some other magic had to happen for the virus to gain a furin cleavage insert that conferred an enormous gain-of-function to it."

    Inserting a functional group may be much easier with a technology like CRISPR than waiting for a natural evolutionary processes to occur in a laboratory.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 10:55am

    #56

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 2337

    32+

    UNC's Ralph Baric Combines 2 CoVs, the big picture

    From The Scientist 2015.  Lab-Made Cornoavirus:  The creation of a chimeric SARS-like virus has scientists discussing the risks of gain-of-function research.

    Ralph Baric, an infectious-disease researcher at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, last week (November 9, 2015) published a study on his team’s efforts to engineer a virus with the surface protein of the SHC014 coronavirus, found in horseshoe bats in China, and the backbone of one that causes human-like severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) in mice. The hybrid virus could infect human airway cells and caused disease in mice, according to the team’s results, which were published in Nature Medicine.

    The results demonstrate the ability of the SHC014 surface protein to bind and infect human cells. [and the ability to combine genomes of different viruses in the lab.]

    This is one example of many from the US that GOF research is happening.

    Several Wuhan virologists studied at US institutions and US and Canadian virologists have been linked to them.  (many references from recent weeks).  And of course, US funds have supported Chinese virology institutions.

    It seems that the club of virus modifiers is international.

    Picture of "The Wuhan Clan" from 2018 that includes long time collaborators, Ralph Baric from UNC and Shi Zhengli, a former student of Baric, who then move to Wuhan to continue genetic engineering of Coronaviruses.

    I'm suspecting that the China vs the USA meme may be a redirection type of deception.  Or at least be a more minor aspect of what is happening.

    We still have some big unfinished issues:

    -The surprising lack of deaths in the Chinese political elite.  (Are they like the WH who started Cipro the week before anthrax letters began appearing?)

    -The "staggering failure" of the NCMI (National Center for Medical Intelligence) to detect a developing pandemic in China in the early months.  This kind of fumbling from a high competent intelligence agency, the DIA's early warning system, smacks of deliberateness to me.  (At least a public failure.)

    -The profound fumbling in the US of the basic response to the virus:

    -Failure to set up testing procedures, invoke public health infrastructure, manufacture test kits.  Hong Kong, Singapore, Taiwan and South Korea were 1-2 months ahead of the USA in manufacturing test kits and testing and response.  Delays, then contaminated test kits shipped?  Then more delays?  WTF?  Created a month or two for the virus to spread.

    -One of the few prompt responses of government was for 11 state governors, in some of the hardest hit states, to sign emergency  (EMERGENCY?? WTF)  orders prohibiting the prescribing of HCQ for SC2.  ("to protect the supply of medication for Lupus patients")

    -Lack of border closures.  (to prevent "racism")

    -Incorrect advice about use of masks.  ("They do more harm than good")

    -Erroneous advice from public health authorities ("Go shopping, go out to dinner, no need to stay home.")

    -What may (though not a resolved issue) turnout to be a key aspect of medical treatment--early use of steroids--for cytokine storm was explicitly recommended against. (See EV Medical School Protocol, page 9, middle of page)

    The systematic failure of critical care systems to adopt corticosteroid therapy resulted from the published recommendations against corticosteroids use by the World Health Organization (WHO), the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), and the American Thoracic Society (ATS) amongst others. A very recent publication by the Society of Critical Care Medicine and authored one of the members of our group (UM), identified the errors made by these organizations in their analyses of corticosteroid studies based on the findings of the SARS and H1N1 pandemics. Their erroneous recommendation to avoid corticosteroids in the treatment of COVID-19 has led to the development of myriad organ failures which have overwhelmed critical care systems across the world [and lead to tens of thousands of additional deaths].

    -Private early warning (November) of the pandemic shared by NCMI with the white house, NSC, pentagon, NATO and Israeli intelligence, but was kept secret, classified, denied and covered up.

    -The locking down of locations NOT experiencing high transmission rates currently.  Tom Luongo points to Florida where excess deaths number only 134, yet the economy is being crushed by the lockdown decision.  Millions are being pushed into food insecurity, housing insecurity and desperation in a setting where projected benefits in terms of loss of life are very small.

    -Criminalizing walking alone in the woods, paddle-boarding in the ocean and sitting on a bench in a state park--all of which clearly do not spread virus, yet are essential to human well-being.  WTF?  Yet these profoundly and adversely affect the police-citizen relationship.

    -The appearance of Faucci both in the pre-pandemic viral GOF research world, then again in the management of the pandemic, is reminiscent of the dual role of Philip Zelikow with 9/11.  Zelikow helped to prepare the elite for the transformations coming to western society in 1997 by offering seminars at Stanford and Harvard "should the USA experience an incident of catastrophic terrorism," --like, say, I dunno, the WTC buildings being blown up--and then re-appeared after the incident to conduct the investigation and write the official explanation for what happened.

    -----------------

    "Incompetence," "bureaucratic sclerosis," "the fog of war" and "I had no idea" are used  to hide planned shit.  Plausible deniability.  Plausible unawareness.  I don't buy it.

    I suspect that we are in the middle of a global social re-engineering project.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 11:18am

    #57

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

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    Posts: 1162

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    That's a magnificent post Sandpuppy... Thank you!

    The recommendation against steroid use is a new dot that you have brought to the forefront.  It certainly fits with a picture whereby maximum harm was intended by some entity.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 11:24am

    thc0655

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 27 2010

    Posts: 2001

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    I won’t be satisfied until PP.com is banned

    We’ll know when we’re really confounding the narrative managers when PP.com starts getting banned and deplatformed. And like a chess grandmaster I’m thinking many moves ahead of where we are now. I know you guys (Chris and Adam) are armed, trained and can take care of yourselves, but let me know if you get to the point that it would be wise to have armed security with you (especially when traveling away from home). I can see that day on the horizon myself.

    ”Happy Hunger Games. And may the odds be ever in your favor.”

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 11:27am

    SteCool101

    SteCool101

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    Tenuous at best

    I really enjoy following Chris and he has a great enquiring mind. This will mean that "conspiracy theories" need to be checked out and discussed. However this 45min breathless episode is one I think he may be embarrassed about in coming weeks. Firstly ... just how many corona virus experts does he think there are? Of course they are all connected. Secondly, how many Labs are there in the world actually researching GOF? If there is only one, its a fair conspiracy point, if there are 100s then let's be sceptical. By the same logic if there is only one is it located where the virus is likely to emerge?Have you checked if ebola research is carried out where ebola threats emerge? Finally, Chris, dude, your own advice about being mentally and idealogically flexible... so we have had well intentioned scientists warning us of the coming pandemic... for years. Is it not reasonable to research the emergent viruses that create this threat? I think so, however your video smashed them for even exploring such "jurassic park" style research, that is idealogically weak. I do not know if they accidentally released it or if they just lost the race and now just look like some B-movie "patsy" holding a smoking gun. However your 45 minute exposure very clearly claimed there is now a scientific sector-wide conspiracy to cover up. This sort of accusation could do immense damage to the reputations of those people that the world needs right now. I hope you don't go further down the anti-science hole please.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 11:39am

    #60
    zza

    zza

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    Joined: Jan 18 2020

    Posts: 6

    Contact Report 732 - page 2 & 3

    From Contact Report 732

    In truth, however, everything is sensational invention and lies and deceit by anti-China ones, sensationalists and consciencelessand extreme dishonour-able journalists who will incite the world's population against China with their lies, which will lead to corresponding accu-sations and tirades of hate, threats and vilifications as early as mid-April. The whole thing at the beginningof this will be the European journalistic 'factual media reports' that are based on lies and deceit, which –spread all over the world –will unleash conspiracies and threats against China.

    Already in 1995 you predicted the emergence of the now rampantly spreading corona-virus-pandemic, after Quetzal also spoke about it in 1989, which was verifiably documented as usual at the time. And, as usual, this prediction has become reality with the first person already becoming infected with the coronavirus in a secret laboratory test as early as mid-2019 and, as a result of carelessness, infecting other persons in Wuhan; consequently, up to the month of December, already more than 240 human beings died from the virus. And this happened before the virus was discovered by another person who was arrested and accused of rabble-rousing, but then died in early February 2020 as a result of the rampantly spreading disease. Contradictory journalistic and freely conceived lie-interviews and claims regarding this rampantly spreading corona disease allegedly being predicted and warned against at various times over the past 10–15 years, correspond to nothing more than fake news lies. This equally applies to lies that the disease was recognised already in mid-November 2019 and thehighest Chinese government and the WHO were informed accordingly. And with regard to a number of mentioned names of alleged ‘participants’ of the health care system and officials who are said to have made an effort in administrations to mobilise the highest Chinese government who did not take everything seriously and failed to take any measures to contain the rampantly spreading disease –these statements also only correspond to lies. Already soon these will lead to a world-wide malicious conspiracy theoryand to hatred towards China and its populace when the irresponsible state execu-tive of the United States of America will lie to the people and maliciously vilify China.

    All of the upcoming fake news and so forth regarding alleged early knowledge of the rampantly spreading coronavirus disease –that it was recognised very early in November 2019 and reported to the authorities and the highest government in China, which, however, altogether did not respond to them and did not take any measures against the outbreak of epidemics –corresponds to nothing other than fake news which is deceptive and builds up conspiracy theories. The effec-tive fact in this regard is that the authorities of Wuhan only became aware of the rampantly spreading disease on the 8thof December 2019 and then reported it to the highest government, which, however, did nothing. That alone can be blamed on the government of China, because after recognising and becoming aware of the coronavirus and its spread, it did not take the necessary measures and therethrough paved the way for the rampantly spreading disease and promoted the emerging pandemic. This is because, as I said, irresponsibly it did not immediately take the necessary measures to stop the already ongoing spread of the rampantly spreading disease. However, the Chinese authorities and government kept the outbreak and ongoing epidemic –which was recognisably, at that time, inevitably to become a pandemic –secret, wher-ethrough the chance of preventing the global spread of the rampantlyspreading disease was forfeited. And this missed chance will now mean that, during the next two months alone, just according to official figures, around three million human beings worldwide will be infected by the coronavirus, which, however, in reality will be 10.4 times as high. This, while an official number of around 200,000 human beings will die of the rampantly spreading disease by the end of April, whereas also this official number will not correspond to the truth. Rather, according to our very precise and exact calculating fore-cast, it will have to be calculated at more than 512,000. Therefore the officially mentioned number will only be the one thatwill be announced by the authorities and state leaders, while the number of unreported cases worldwide, however, will be much higher, as has been the case since the onset of the rampantly spreading disease, and has remained so and will also remain so. This results, on the one hand, from inaccurate reporting and registering, and on the other hand, from many governments and health authorities, and so forth, concealing or deliberately falsifying the effective figures, as additionally many infections and the resulting deaths do not become known.

    This new coronavirus corresponds to a further development and mutation from the rampantly spreading SARS, which is already spreading quickly and widely across the world as a pandemic, which, however, is still no more recognised by the majority of the irresponsible ones and the ones incapable of their office, by those responsible for state leaders and by the WHO –all of whom do not want to accept it –than it is by all health organisations of all countries, which still trivialise it all and consequently do not recognise the tragedy until it will be too late and there will be more and more deaths to mourn, as was already the case in Wuhan in the middle of last year when the rampantly spreading disease began and caused many deaths, but this was neither recognised nor became known, and consequently the coronavirus pandemic is rampant in all countries of the world.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 11:41am

    SteCool101

    SteCool101

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    SteCool101 said:

    Professional engineer here. It's pretty easy to research 5g for yourself. Just look up electromagnetic spectrum and ionizing and nonionising radiation. 5g isn't new science or technology... It's just scale and prevalence. My humble O Is that we are wasting precious time and effort barking at the house cat up that particular tree when there are tigers and lions prowling the neighbourhood.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 11:52am

    TWalker5

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    TWalker5 said:

    Wow, Chris really hit a nerve here, didn’t he. The sudden presence of several posters who joined simply to cast doubt on Chris’s exposition only convinces me further that the virus was created by humans.

    I have to be honest, though.  While it is very credible, the idea that this is man-made is very depressing. I already had a less than positive view of big government and big business.  Now, it’s worse.  It feels like there is no hope for mankind. Our inherent greed, selfishness, and hubris appears to completely overwhelm any mild redeeming qualities we humans may possess. So, I can totally understand why many people may want to remain with their heads in the sand and will reject this message outright. Being blissfully ignorant sounds pretty tempting sometimes.

    T.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 12:05pm

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1162

    6+

    SteCool Trolio - Wow.. Chris was right to out the trolls today

    As an engineer in semiconductor manufacturing myself, I can tell you that SteCool's post on 5G is complete fluff.  He said absolutely nothing.  His earlier post telling Chris not to be, "anti-science" makes him a troll.  He probably thinks that on 9/11 building 7 fell down due to, "normal office fires".

    My personal opinion is that the initial implementation of 5G, which is known as < 6 GHz, is not so different from our current cell phone system, unless you can make the case that with it we transition from less harmful, to more harmful radiation in the range of 1 - 5 GHz.  NOBODY is rolling out true, mmWave 5G right now, certainly not Wuhan.  The mmWave technology has not been put into high volume manufacturing yet.

    That being said, the intended mmWave version of 5G will use much higher Frequencies, > 24GHz, and this is honestly scary to me.  I certainly don't want a 24 or 28GHz base station facing my house anytime soon - and because these function as line-of-sight, they will need to be ubiquitous and close.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 12:20pm

    SteCool101

    SteCool101

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    SteCool101 said:

    Come on man. I have followed Chris for over 10 years, please don't pass me off as an industry apologist. Just because I haven't felt the need to post before isn't relevent. However do we need science and scientists right now..?  Holy heck I reckon so. Is the US completely stuffed because of science or politics....? I'm a kiwi and our science and politics are how it's supposed to be ... So all I am asking is just think before labelling virologists who have spent thier careers trying to prevent this happening and now it's happened have bad managers and unprecedented scrutiny to deal with. I don't think my body of work would stand that test... are you confident about yours?

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 12:20pm

    #65
    yagasjai

    yagasjai

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    Joined: Apr 18 2009

    Posts: 116

    9+

    Cognitive Dissonance

    I watched some recorded MSM news from yesterday to see if there was any mention of this and the only thing said was the party line that it is not man-made. Also missing from the MSM I saw was any mention of the big essential workers strike planned for yesterday of Amazon, Instacart, Whole Foods... With such a stranglehold on the media and our political process, it becomes a very real question as to how to mobilize large numbers of people to actually demand real change. Some of us still believe in the common good, in common decency, in common sense. And with such grotesque distortions of what actually makes sense masquerading as leadership, where can we gain traction beyond simply ensuring our own survival (and our loved ones.) There HAS to be a way to address this and to demand change. MLK said history bends in the direction of justice. I can't help but keep looking for that trajectory. Poor people are being crushed. People in nursing homes are being crushed. People in prisons and homeless shelters are being crushed. I (we all) need something to bend here in the direction of justice.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 12:23pm

    #66
    kunga

    kunga

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    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 324

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    Anti viral herbal question

    Back in the day, (40 years ago, gulp!!) the popular alternative anti viral herbs were goldenseal root and ecinacea, usually as a tincture, often combined. At the time, supplements and herbs were just the new thing.  I haven't seen any current discussion of these.  I have been pulling out stuff I've had, and wondering.  If you have thoughts on these, I'd like to read your post or PM me.  Thanks.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 12:28pm

    #67
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 497

    3+

    Nice post Sand Puppy.

    I attempted to post the link for the Unz article to my FB page. It goes against their policy of examining all the facts and testing hypotheses.

    History is written by the winners

     

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 12:35pm

    stevedaly

    stevedaly

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 23 2020

    Posts: 64

    Purpose of Franken

    The purpose of finding Franken diseases could be to be able to develop a universal treatment or universal vaccine.  Do we remember how the CDC (Fauci advice?) decided not to use the WHO test kits for identifying COVID19 and instead stored up a universal test kit for multiple viruses?  A test kit that turned out to be unreliable.

    Under the first 5 year phase of the NIH grant to the Wuhan lab, there were 5 years of picking up dead bat carcasses in caves in China and probably running thousands of virus tests and finding they all had the same results.  No new viruses.  So the second phase was supposed to create new viruses.....

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 12:39pm

    #69
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 497

    2+

    Won't do any good .....but

    This is an election year. It might be time to remind members of congress of that fact. It might also be time for a congressional hearing into this virus. A totally haha, transparent haha investigation into who knew what, when and how. Also who has financial conflicts of interest, haha.

    Here is a list of congress people with phone numbers. A bulk email campaign that goes viral might get a few answers. (I am not holding my breath)

    https://www.house.gov/representatives

    Here is a list of Senators with contact info. Might could find one or two with no ties to Gilead and other big pharma perps.

    https://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 12:40pm

    #70

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2075

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    5G antenna; beamforming

    Hey Jim.  Here's a tinfoil hat 5G concept for you.

    With a 3G receiver, you are only talking with a single antenna/base station at a time.  This limits the data bandwidth to the max capacity of that one antenna.

    As I understand it, the reason 5G is so cool is because multiple 5G antennae can be focused on a single receiver, allowing a large amount of data to be transmitted in a short amount of time, presumably at the cost of some extra radiation exposure to the phone's owner.

    From the wiki page:

    Multiple bitstreams of data are transmitted simultaneously. In a technique called beamforming, the base station computer will continuously calculate the best route for radio waves to reach each wireless device, and will organize multiple antennas to work together as phased arrays to create beams of millimeter waves to reach the device.
    Right.  So that tells me that the base station computer could - literally - recruit all of the antennae in a particular area to send data to your phone at the same time.  If it wanted to.
    What do you imagine your radiation exposure would be in that case?
    Let's say a nefarious actor wanted a Subject dead.  They could ask that helpful base station computer to run a special program, and "send a lot of data" to the Subject's cell phone at, say, midnight each night, for an hour, using most if not all of the antennae within range of Subject's receiver.
    How long do you think Subject would remain alive? [I'm a software guy - this is a hardware question.  buck=passed]
    Note that China is one of the top developers of 5G in the world.
    Ok, tinfoil hat off.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 12:43pm

    Ision

    Ision

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    Sand Puppy Is Absolutely Correct. World Population & Political Control Via Made-Made Virus

    From the first moment I saw the genome for this virus, I knew it was a lab created monster.  It could be nothing else, as no such virus was even remotely possible from natural origins.

    I also told everyone about the connection of the Wuhan Lab, and its personnel, to level 4 labs in Canada, which share pathogens with level 4 U.S. labs...and how these same pathogens...and others...had been stolen by the Chinese working in the Canadian lab and taken to the Wuhan lab.

    The Chinese patient ZERO had nothing to do with the meat market, which was just down the street from the Wuhan lab, and everyone involved knew at once what had happened and why.

    Because of the deliberate misinformation and lies from the highest sources, I can no longer believe this virus "escaped" from the Wuhan lab.  I now think the "exposure" of this "accidental" release is entirely a planned cover for a deliberate act.

    This is another "mystery" disease, deliberately released, to allow population reduction and to enhance political control, just as HIV was..and is.

    The only politically safe method of culling the human race is via disease, which also affords the application of force upon desired targets and the removal of antagonists to desired goals.

    I am quite sure many of the Chinese dead in Wuhan, were actually political assassinations.

    I think the depopulation of Humanity shall continue, even to the point of the use of EMP, and a fabricated war.

     

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 12:48pm

    SteCool101

    SteCool101

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    Jim H

    Nice... trollio. Thanks. Actually came on for two reasons firstly because Chris invited us casuals over because he said this was a welcoming and enquiring community. I see you are the "welcoming" committee, encouraging that enquiring discussion by labling me a troll. By the way, do you do that in real life too? Anyway, the second reason was to tell Chris (who I greatly respect) that I think he's wandered off the range. I felt I owed him that in return for all the great advice over the years. Gotta say as a noob (rather than a troll) ... It's looking pretty toxic here, just on first impressions. Already being assaulted with accusations of being a troll, 911 non-believer, 5g and so on. All I can say guys is its not the open-minded exchange of thoughts and view points that I expected

     

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 12:54pm

    Ision

    Ision

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    Typical Troll Response For Being Outted.

    I think you are a disinformation troll, too.   Since you are new here...you not being here will be of little import.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 1:41pm

    SteCool101

    SteCool101

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    SteCool101 said:

    So by being labelled a troll are my points automatically invalidated? Look PP runs an argument that bad things are happening because it's all incompetently managed, corruptly motivated and who have bad scientific discipline. However the suggestions in this thread are relating to highly organised science led actions. I believe the former and not the latter argument. I don't think they can both be logically true.

    Why do I feel like I am being trolled having to point out this logic?

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 2:26pm

    #75
    pangolino

    pangolino

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    Joined: Apr 28 2020

    Posts: 10

    dr James Lyons-Weiler

    Mid March dr Lyons-Weiler, who at first was for a man-made origin of SARS-COV2, changed his mind after studying COV2's genoma.

    I think his thoughts could be interesting in this discussion, given his background in genetics and biology, even if I'm not able to fully grasp what he is saying, but I'm sure dr. Martenson and others here will surely be able to understands what he's talking about.

    SARS-CoV-2 Origins: IPAK Research Exonerates Dr. Shi

    Take care.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 2:41pm

    Jim H

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    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1162

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    SteCool.. add something of value to the conversation, or leave.

    So far you have done nothing but to provide arrogant and trollish arguments against the work Chris is doing.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 2:56pm

    #77
    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

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    Posts: 429

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    'They' may already be toying with PP.com

    Great comment #37 sand_puppy,  and concur with thc0655 re thoughts around the idea of PP getting banned.

    I am going to put my tin foil hat on and say that I have moments when I wonder if 'they' are not already tinkering with PP in some way. It is obvious PP has hit a nerve. I have on numerous occasions in the past 2 months written comments building on the things sand_puppy is talking about and topics related to geopolitics and biowarfare. In many instances my comments have links to alt media websites and/or articles. When I hit submit, they just disappear. Poof, gone! I have typically thought it a PP glitch and did report it but it happened yet again yesterday. Aside from being frustrating, my spidy senses got going a bit more after I PM'd sand_puppy and he said he has had that happen to him as well. Hmmm.... weird. I continue to hope it is just a PP glitch but cannot help but think at times that 'they' are somehow censoring some comments. Is anyone else having trouble with this?

    Okay, tinfoil hat off... irrespective of my posting challenges, this whole SC2 thing, from questions about the virus origins, to corrupt big pharma, to big brother control and surveillance aspirations, stinks to high heaven!!!! It absolutely reeks of nefarious intention. And while we must absolutely deal with the here and the now while the virus rages and wreaks havoc, that does not preclude us from simultaneously delving into how it happened and what the ulterior motives may be. TPTB count on the sheeple to remain dumb and ignorant so that they can keep on doing what they are doing. Ignorance is bliss cuts both ways, with 'them' blissfully' benefiting from compliant minions. They want us to defer asking questions until later. Just like they count on people not being able to stomach the thought that this might be man made and possibly intentional. 'They' could not operate to the extent they do otherwise.

    It is my hope that all of us who care keep digging for evidence and keep exposing the evil that is destroying all that we hold dear. Chris is sticking his neck out and leading with integrity. Let's make sure his is not the only outstretched neck.

    You know my fury about people is based precisely on the fact that I consider them to be responsible, moral creatures who so often do not act that way. (Margaret Mead)

    Lovely quote, but useless if we don't use that fury as a catalyst to help foster a return to a state of being where morality is the norm rather than the exception.

    Jan

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 3:05pm

    Ellery West

    Ellery West

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    13+

    Incontrovertible proof of natural origin

    Thanks for your excellent comments about viral mutations and how they transpire. Millions of dollars have been spent cataloging bat corona viruses at the Wuhan lab. A simple thought experiment: If SARS Covid 2.0 was a naturally occurring virus, why was it not cataloged? Further, the only solid proof that it was not man-made is for independent researchers to find it in the wild. I don't recommend holding your breath for that to happen.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 3:17pm

    moheli

    moheli

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    Montagnier hypothecises that 5G might have increased the pathogenicity of the virus in the interview

    https://bit.ly/2yoFMeq

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 3:36pm

    #80
    DaveDD

    DaveDD

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    Joined: Sep 08 2019

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    I’m not sure...

    I’m not sure what I find scarier: a virus that kills or maims at will, or humans who get paid to silence you because you dare to think for yourself.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 3:37pm

    garystamper

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 25 2010

    Posts: 11

    2+

    Another Investigation...

    Started by the Dept. of Education for an entirely different reason, and leading to the same place: Dr. Fauci

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/us-probes-university-of-texas-links-to-chinese-lab/ar-BB13sOvn?ocid=spartandhp&fbclid=IwAR3zcFXPYP1b52rztY3OnibIhhWsfKC0J9Bz1PA7DD_rW_x-32T6L58ctNA

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 3:40pm

    Angi

    Angi

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    5G - West Coast US

    This site has some good info. IMO.

    https://5gsacramentodangers.com/2019/07/09/5g-is-dangerous-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2/

    The way 5G is being implemented + pushed by gov + ignoring citizen feedback + lack of study of human health effects + utility providers racing to implement =  yet another over reach.  A variety of health professionals are commenting about EMF radiation and immune system suppression.  (I think what were witnessing in the big picture is death by 1000 cuts and survival of the fittest. )

     

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 3:49pm

    wildtravel

    wildtravel

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    Great Link

    Thank you Tony McPherson for the link to laowhy86 video.  Great sleuthing on who was most likely patient 0 at the Wuhan Institute.

    I’m not so impressed though by the author’s deductive skills in holding the CCP alone responsible, when “the one that got away” would not have existed if it had not been first ordered by the US NIAID.  The chain of causation started there, didn’t it?

    As for whom should be held accountable for playing dice with death here, the short answer is we all are.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 4:37pm

    #84

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1019

    13+

    Wildtravel

    As for whom should be held accountable for playing dice with death here, the short answer is we all are.

    Hogwash!  It’s a snappy little platitude though.

    Only arrogant, greedy sociopaths play god and have no problem killing multitudes of people.  No one I know fits that description.  There are many though, no doubt that do.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 5:17pm

    Linda T

    Linda T

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    Re: 'They' may already be toying with PP.com

    Jan,

    I have also had comments disappear into the Twilight Zone… yet others would post, which I couldn’t figure out. I had initially thought it was a PP glitch, but now I’m not so sure after reading your comment. I wouldn’t bet on it, but I think I had mentioned in one of them a particular book which I’m surprised hasn’t gotten banned from Amazon. The book title is “Emerging Viruses: AIDS And Ebola: Nature, Accident or Intentional?” by Leonard G. Horowitz, and I have two copies in my storage unit as well as one copy of the book “And the Band Played On: Politics, People, and the AIDS Epidemic” is a 1987 book by San Francisco Chronicle journalist Randy Shilts. I’ve been planning on going to my storage unit to get some things, including some books and plan on getting them so I can refresh my memory and look up some things from them.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_the_Band_Played_On

    The Emerging Viruses book was difficult to finish reading, sometimes I could only read a few pages before getting too pissed off and infuriated… But I remember a photocopy of something that had put out by the Council of Foreign Affairs about reducing population.

    Since “they” are already banning and deleting “stuff” online, just in case, I created a Word Document for the online articles Chris mentioned in yesterday’s video, and one that sand_puppy put in one of his posts earlier today…

    Hopefully this will post. (Using a word doc to copy and paste from just in case.)

    Linda

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 6:09pm

    Linda T

    Linda T

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    Re: Anti viral herbal question

    kunga,

    I have used the extract combination of Echinacea and Goldenseal for 30+/- years, in addition to others. Back in the early 90’s I was working in the vitamin department of a health store which I really enjoyed. I haven’t used antibiotics other than infrequent prescriptions from a dentist or doctor for pain due to work injuries… Nor vaccines since becoming an adult, I mean why the %*# would you use mercury (which is a nerve toxin, a hazardous material and dentists have to keep track of what they have in inventory, and can be carcinogenic, for example, if a CFL bulb breaks there are certain protocols to clean up the mercury…) as a preservative in certain vaccines??

    When it first started coming out that COVID was acting like a blood disease and similar to malaria, and the prescription drugs available being misrepresented by the MSM and supply being constrained, I started looking for more natural, less expensive alternatives. After all, herbs and medicinal herbs have been used for hundreds and thousands of years as the original methods used for healing before the last 150-200 years in which the AMA and Big Pharma came into existence, and power. I found quite a few… One being Artemesia annua (Sweet Wormwood).

    (I also looked at Stephen Harrod Buhner’s protocol for “Herbal Treatment for Coronavirus Infections” to see what I had on hand already before going to local health food stores.)

    Since there have been toilet paper shortages, and now food shortages due to supply chains and infrastructure breakdowns, transportation issues, and others as well, I figure that there could come a time when there are shortages of alternatives… So, I now have some Artemisia seeds on order (back-ordered unfortunately), in addition to some Echinacea seeds and plants, Goldenseal seeds and plants, and Arnica plants as well as others I plan on getting as well to add to the area for medicinal and bee/pollinator foraging plants in my garden plot. This year I’m also going to try planting sweet potatoes as well in addition to the tomatoes, peas and beans, squash, beets, carrots, corn, onions, chives, kale, and this was the first year I’ve been able to find a perennial Tree Collard at a local nursery which I planted 2-3 weeks ago. Oh, yes, can’t forget my blueberries and strawberries (they’re an understory plant which is why they’re underneath).

    Snippets from the wiki page:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artemisia_annua

    “Extractions

    In 1971, scientists demonstrated the plant extracts had antimalarial activity in primate models, and in 1972, the active ingredient, artemisinin (formerly referred to as arteannuin), was isolated and its chemical structure described. Artemisinin may be extracted using a low boiling point solvent, such as diethylether, and is found in the glandular trichomes of the leaves, stems, and inflorescences, and it is concentrated in the upper portions of plant within new growth.[23] The first isolation of artemisinin from the herb occurred from a military project known as Project 523, following the study of traditional medicine pharmacopoeias performed by Tu Youyou and other researchers within the project.[24]

    Artemisinin and flavonoids

    In the last 20 years researchers focused on the activity of artemisinin against malaria. Therefore, fewer studies have been done about the relationship between flavonoids and cancer. Despite that, recent studies show that the flavonoids present in the A. annua leaf are linked to suppression of CYP450 enzymes responsible for altering the absorption and metabolism of artemisinin in the body.[26] Further researches in the synergistic effect of artemisinin and flavonoids and their biological interaction between malaria and cancer are needed.[2

    Research to develop antimalarial drugs led to the discovery of artemisinin, a compound which is extracted from Artemisia annua, in the 1970s by Chinese scientist Tu Youyou, for which she shared the 2015 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine.[17][27] While most TCM herbs are boiled at high temperature that can damage the active ingredient in Artemisia annua,[27] one traditional source calls for this herb to be steeped in cold water.[28] Noting this, scientists found that a better extract was obtained by using a low-temperature ether-based extraction method. Purification processes were used to isolate the active molecule, and clinical trials showed the active ingredient to be an effective drug.[27]

    Artemisinin is a sesquiterpene lactone with an endoperoxide bridge and has been produced semisynthetically as an antimalarial drug. The efficacy of tea, made with either water or urine and A. annua, for the treatment of malaria is dubious, and is discouraged by the World Health Organization (WHO).[29] Research has found that artemesinin is not soluble in water and the concentrations in these infusions are considered insufficient to treat malaria.[30][31][32] In 2004, the Ethiopian Ministry of Health changed Ethiopia's first line antimalaria drug from sulfadoxine/pyrimethamine (Fansidar), which has an average 36% treatment failure rate, to artemether/lumefantrine (Coartem), a drug therapy containing artemesinin which is 100% effective when used correctly, despite a worldwide shortage at the time of the needed derivative from A. annua.[33] A 2012 review said that artemisinin-based remedies are the most effective drugs for the treatment of malaria.”

    Linda

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 6:29pm

    #87
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 497

    5+

    Silly Question

    What is the supposedly greatest country on the planet with the biggest economy doing sending millions to the second greatest country and second largest economy?

    We spend over 1 trillion on health and human services but we can't make masks? We can't make hand sanitizer? We can't make Hydrogen peroxide? We can't make sanitizing wipes? Breweries are making alcohol for sanitizer, cottage industries are springing up to make masks. This is something less than a banana republic.

    Maybe China can loan us some money, after all we helped them fund GOF on SARS. It seems like the least we could do.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 6:33pm

    wildtravel

    wildtravel

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    Posts: 42

    3+

    Criminal Negligence in Public Office

    Thanks for sharing Granny Dewitt.

    On the question of whom those baying for blood might hold accountable for the world’s suffering caused by Covid 19, that is a legal question.  At least in the western world, it makes a big difference whether we’re talking about negligence causing damages as a civil matter, or a criminal matter?

    Mazzeltopf to those who believe there might be a buck in it for them, seeking civil remedies against nation states.  I’d urge them not to hold their breath on that one.

    As for criminal negligence, the bar goes up to the highest evidentiary standard, “beyond reasonable doubt”.  And simply proving that somebody was negligent because they didn’t make any effort to know, or make any reasonable effort to avoid a foreseeable danger (non feasance) doesn’t cut it as criminal.  Nor does proving that somebody knew there was a problem, but nevertheless did nothing about it (misfeasance).

    For people to go to prison over this, it needs to be proven that both the Chinese Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) and the American National Instititute for Allergies and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) contracted to genetically engineer SARS COV 2 from original SARS in the full knowledge of both parties that it was completely impossible to avoid the risk of a pandemic, and on this basis deliberately failed to take reasonable steps (because there were none) to prevent that harm (malfeasance in public office).

    I like the chances of taking scalps on such a case, for those who are so inclined and have the balls.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 6:57pm

    #89
    LazarusLong

    LazarusLong

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    Joined: May 03 2020

    Posts: 1

    5+

    The missing link and a small correction

    This is my first and probably only post.

    You got close Dr.Martenson but you were missing the good fossil record between the gain a function guys/gals and China. Look

    Joint China-US Call for Employing a Transdisciplinary Approach to Emerging Infectious Diseases (2015)

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4700097/   

    http://archive.is/lhmzS

    Lets look at the authors

    Jonna A. K. Mazet,corresponding author Qin WeiGuoping ZhaoDerek A. T. CummingsJames Stephen DesmondJoshua RosenthalCharles H. KingWuchun CaoAleksei A. ChmuraEmily A. HaganShuyi ZhangXiangming XiaoJianguo XuZhengli ShiFeng FengXiuping LiuWeiqing PanGuangjian ZhuLiyao Zuo, and Peter Daszak

    I bet you can find some familiar names there, and look, bat lady.

    Also i think there is a mistaken comment in the video, look closely

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

    It says Correspondence, what is Correspondence in nature?

    https://www.nature.com/nature/for-authors/other-subs

    Correspondence

    These items are 'letters to the Editor': short comments on topical issues of public and political interest, anecdotal material, or readers' reactions to informal material published in Nature (for example, Editorials, News, News Features, Books & Arts reviews and Comment pieces).

    Note that Correspondence pieces are not technical comments on peer-reviewed research papers. Please submit these instead to Matters Arising.

    Correspondence submissions are not usually peer-reviewed and so should not contain primary research data.

    There is also this  genetic analysis if anyone want a deep dive
    Lab-Made? SARS-CoV-2 Genealogy Through the Lens of Gain-of-Function Research
    https://medium.com/@yurideigin/lab-made-cov2-genealogy-through-the-lens-of-gain-of-function-research-f96dd7413748

    And this event analysis
    Evidence SARS-CoV-2 Emerged From a Biological Laboratory in Wuhan, China
    https://project-evidence.github.io

     

     

    Have a nice weekend.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 7:13pm

    Angi

    Angi

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 10 2020

    Posts: 59

    2+

    Linda T. ~ Astragalus?

    Linda - I have enjoyed reading your posts and thought we are quite like minded. I too have been sticking with and educating myself on the natural herbs and supplements over the last 30+ years. Can only think of one instance where I had to resort to an Rx for a mild shingles outbreak. (Too close for comfort near an eye. Collodial silver gel made a big difference in healing that problem.) Echinacia has been great = Vit.C. taken at the 1st sign of a possible whatever. I have just been reading about Astragalus and plan to order some for my arsenal. Here's the write up from Prescription for Nutritional Healing by Phyllis Balch. "Acts as a tonic to protect the immune system. Aids adrenal gland function and digestion. Increases metabolism, promotes healing, and provides energy to combat fatique and prolonged stress. Increases stamina. Good for colds, flu, and immune deficiency related problems including AIDS, cancer, and tumors. Effective for chronic lung weakness." Caution: Do not use if fever is present. 

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 7:17pm

    #91
    Angi

    Angi

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    Joined: Apr 10 2020

    Posts: 59

    5+

    Remdesivir - Down Vote (Zero Hedge Article)

    https://www.zerohedge.com/health/remdesivir-probably-worthless-trauma-surgeon-exposes-drug-companys-shenanigans

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 7:44pm

    #92

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1019

    1+

    Criminal Negligence in Public Office

    I think it was Bzigniew Brezezenski that said with today’s technology it’s easier to kill a million people than control them.

    And Catherine Austen Fitts I believe said once that to be a politician and take on the deep state/evil one would have to kill with impunity. Or something to that effect.  That ain’t going to happen.

    Not sure the odds are in the favor of the good guys. However, perseverance and prayer does have  advantages.

    The more things change the more they stay the same. Cest  le vie.

     

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 8:51pm

    Linda T

    Linda T

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jun 09 2014

    Posts: 132

    Re: Linda T. ~ Astragalus?

    Raingarden,

    Thank you...

    Yes, Astralagus is one of several extracts I have. I was going to include some other names, some links, and tidbits of what they do, but I'm getting hungrier... (I only got a few done will post later after I eat something.)

    Linda

     

     

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 9:07pm

    #94
    kunga

    kunga

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    Posts: 324

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    Astragalus

    Astragalus is classified as a tonic herb in Oriental medicine.  Is considered a mild, not hot, option to ginseng.  Be careful, do not use tonics if you have an acute infection.  You risk locking the toxin in the body.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 9:10pm

    #95

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2075

    7+

    chris: correct again

    Today's video really did stir up a hornet's nest.

    I think he got several different groups' full attention.  We will have to see if the "enthusiasm to engage" persists across time and succeeding posts, or is only focused on this one subject.

    One observation.  Assaults from the outside tend to increase fellow-feeling between those who are already members of the community.  I know I'm feeling that way.

    I do think the CCP has upped its game.  Maybe they pay more, perhaps we are getting special attention, perhaps all their overseas-educated people have had to return and have nothing to do, or maybe they've developed some really strong AI.  I've seen some pretty amazing things a year or so ago with AI text generation.  It was pretty creepy.  It wasn't quite human, but it sure was moving closer.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 9:37pm

    Linda T

    Linda T

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    Joined: Jun 09 2014

    Posts: 132

    Re: Astragalus

    Kunga,

    Oh, thank you, good to know! Do you know of any good reference books, or a website? on Oriental Medicine I could look for? So, I can learn more and be able to look up others?

    Linda

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 9:39pm

    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

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    Joined: Jun 04 2012

    Posts: 429

    6+

    Are you sure it’s all the CCP Dave?

    I don’t think they are they only ones playing the troll and obfuscate game....

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 10:18pm

    #98
    Linda T

    Linda T

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    Joined: Jun 09 2014

    Posts: 132

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    Astragalus and protocols?

    kunga,

    I just looked at Stephen Harrod Buhner’s “Herbal Treatment for Coronavirus Infections” again:

    https://www.stephenharrodbuhner.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/coronavirus.txt.pdf

    On page 9, it says “Lowering TGF levels can be very helpful (herbs that can do this are Angelica sinensis and Astragalus spp)”.

    On page 10 “Autoantibodies are produced that begin to attack host epithelial and endothelial cells, increasing the destruction. Reducing autoimmunity (Rhodiola, Astragalus, Cordyceps spp)…”

    On page 13: “4) Modulate cytokine responses (Salvia miltorrhiza), including the lowering of TGF levels [Angelica sinensis (dong quai), Astragalus monghilicus]”.

    And, “7) Reduce autoimmunity and increase healthy immune function (Rhodiola, Astragalus spp, Cordyceps spp).”

    From pages 14-15:

    “Suggested dosage: 1 tsp 3x daily. However: I would also take with this the immune formulation from the following protocol in order to activate the most effective healthy immune function for this particular viral pathogen. SARS-group Treatment Protocol: This is composed of three tincture formulations, as follows.

    1) Core formulation: Scutellaria baicalensis (3 parts), Polygonumcuspidatum (2 parts), Pueraria (2 parts), Glycyrrhiza (1 part), decocted Sambucus leaf tincture (1 part). Dosage: 1 tsp 3x day, if acute 1 tsp6x day.2) Immune formulation: Cordyceps (3parts), Angelica senensis (2parts), Rhodiola (1part), Astragalus (1 part). Dosage: Same as number one. 3) Cellular protection/cytokine modulation/spleen-lymph support: Salvia miltiorrhiza (3parts), Ceanothus (2 parts), Bidens pilosa(1 part). Dosage: Same as number one.”

    I was just thinking/wondering if he will be updating his protocol, and some of it I think still makes sense (he released it back in March), and with so much information coming out on the virus practically every day now, might some of it be inappropriate now to use? How to adjust it or what not to use? Just checked his website, the “coronaupdate” was dated 3/15/20. Some of the more science & medical jargon goes over my head, but I’m trying to understand as much as possible!

    Linda

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 10:40pm

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2075

    2+

    several groups

    jan-

    I don’t think they are they only ones playing the troll and obfuscate game….

    Yes I agree that's why I said "several groups" in my previous post.

    Note that the other groups (most likely) speak english as their native language, so they don't need to "up their game" quite as much.

    They all do seem more high end than the "participants" I've seen elsewhere that are trying to derail, refocus, or otherwise shape the conversation.   Which often happens enough by itself.  Getting a group to think about a single topic is like herding cats.  I know, I'm a cat just like everyone else, and I tend to wander off topic in my own direction at the slightest nudge.  🙂

    I should probably use more discipline.

    I think, as AI gets more advanced, the trolls will get more and more effective.

    [EDIT: in thinking about this some more, its probable that the site conversation overall can be classified by the usual Meyers Briggs personality test using AI - I could probably write the code to do this in a week or two if I had a training set - so it makes sense for them to dispatch only the trolls that will fit in better at that site.  We probably have a primary, and perhaps a few secondary aggregate personality types, so that's what the trolls have to have as well, or else they won't be effective.]

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 10:50pm

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1019

    4+

    Dave I am sure you are experienced!

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 11:07pm

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2075

    3+

    herding cats

    Granny-

    Engineering management is said to be primarily about herding cats.  And - I've done engineering management.  And I've been an engineer that has definitely required a fair amount of herding.  I required so much herding that my boss decided to make me a manager.  So I've seen both sides of the coin.

    google "herding cats engineering management".  It really is a thing.

    https://herdingcats.sevdrag.com/2019/02/21/engineering-management/

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 12:45am

    kunga

    kunga

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    Posts: 324

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    Herbs / Linda T.

    I am not an herbalist, just know a little.  Oriental herbs are rarely taken alone, usually combined in complex formulas depending on oriental diagnosis.  This virus has different expressions in different people, so the formula has to match the condition expressed at that time. As the condition changes, hopefully towards healing, the formula changes.  It is a lifetime study.  More complex than western herbology. Functional, holistic not anatomical medicine, a different paradigm.  I do not know of any books, but plumdragonherbs.com. may be able to help you.

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 4:07am

    Sonerous

    Sonerous

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    Joined: Jun 10 2019

    Posts: 20

    Thanks Sand_puppy

    I took a look at the website and the burrito article as well. I like the person/s' mission statement but couldn't find anything about their credentials.
    It sounds like you did ("..One section of a VERY well written article by an expert.")--can you advise what their credentials are and please point out where you found them on the blog?

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 4:40am

    Sonerous

    Sonerous

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    Posts: 20

    10+

    What's happening to PP discussion?

    What's with the "if you have a question or a different opinion, you must be a troll" folks? Is the goal for this forum to become an echo chamber, where everyone has to toe a/the party line?

    Academics are used to handling comments and criticisms of their work, that's how science works. Admittedly it's supposed to be peer review, at least in journals, but those academics who write for the general public surely also expect some questions?  Some "what about"s, or "have you thought about it this way?", or seen that article? That's not trolling, that's how debate and discussion, learning and advancement of knowledge (especially in science), work. If someone asks a question, they are keen to hear an answer, and academics (or teachers) are usually pleased, keen to explain further and to point out parts of their argument that might need further clarification or emphasis. And finally, perhaps, agree to disagree.

    Sadly, I've recently seen people who asked a question here being told to leave!

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 5:41am

    ml346

    ml346

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    Joined: May 03 2020

    Posts: 2

    Hydrochloroquine and high death rates

    Dear Chris Martenson,
    some weeks ago I stumbled over one of your YouTube Videos covering Covid-19 pandemic. Since then I'm looking your videos on a regular basis. I'm working as an IT admin, so I'm not an expert on virology or pandemics. It's only the common sense and lots of information what can help me to find the right way. Just I'm reading an article from the german Dr. med. Wolfgang Wodarg, an internist and pulmonary physician, specialist for hygiene and environmental medicine as well as for public health and social medicine. He is one of the people who say that Covid-19 is not more than a flu. But wait, his arguments are noteworthy. So he can explain why there are these hotspots of high Covid-19 death rates like NewYork, England/Wales or Italy. His explanations would rehabilitate some of the critics and alerters in the ranks of cardiologists regarding Hydrochloroquine. As this drug could be deadly for people with G6PD deficiency. Please have a look at his article and I'm curious about your assessment.
    Here you'll find the article:
    https://multipolar-magazin.de/artikel/covid-19-a-case-for-medical-detectives
    Please excuse my poor english.
    Kind regards
    Michael

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 5:50am

    Oliveoilguy

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jun 29 2012

    Posts: 713

    1+

    Quinine in the 1700’s

    https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/05/the_last_time_they_politicized_the_treatment_for_an_epidemic.html

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 7:42am

    drbrucedale

    drbrucedale

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    Joined: Sep 06 2009

    Posts: 103

    12+

    For Confuzia and SteCool101: Provide Some Evidence, Please

    Hey Confuzia and SteCool101:

    I read carefully through the posts you two provided on this subject: "Was Covid-19 Human Made".  What a waste of my time. You didn't cite a single piece of evidence or even reasoning to support the idea that this virus was produced by nature.  You just cast aspersions on the evidence provided by Chris and his motivations without engaging with the evidence at all.

    My career experience in scientific and engineering research and as an expert witness tell me that you two can't cite any evidence because you don't have any evidence.

    As the lawyers like to say: "If the facts are on your side, pound the facts. If the law is on your side, pound the law. If neither the facts nor the law are on your side, pound the table."

    You two did a lot of table-pounding.

    If you have any evidence to back up the idea that this virus came from nature, please post it. I for one would like to believe that this is something Gaia did to us, not something that we did to ourselves through our own arrogance and stupidity. So far, it looks like arrogance and stupidity have the weight of the evidence on their side.

     

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 8:26am

    LabCat

    LabCat

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    8+

    TROLL!

    TROLL ALERT!

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 8:34am

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

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    Posts: 2337

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    "J.C. on a Bike" podcast

    Glad you liked this video Les.  I did too.  20 minutes.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIW3TQpVJYs

    In the above video, a neuro-biologist J. J. Couey (J.C.), U of Pittsburgh, does an informal style review of the evidence Chris talks about in his above podcast of May 2.  Most of JC podcast is video recorded point of view while he rides his bike across town.  He includes links.

    Most specifically, JC focuses on the fallacy (strawman argument) given by Michael Olsterholm (a famous virologist/academic) when interviewed on the Joe Rogan show.  ("If our computer model didn't come up with the new binding site motif then it can only be a naturally evolved virus.")  Just like Chris does, he points out that there are multiple ways to nudge nature into a more lethal, more transmissible and new-species-adapted virus.  He gives examples and includes the papers.  It is 100% clear that an academic virologist will also know of these other ways.  Hence, I am certain that Olsterholm is lying.

    Another case where finding the cover-up reveals the lie underneath it.

    JC is a colleague and friend of the author of the author of "No monkey ever reheated a frozen burrito" paper from Harvard2TheBigHouse mentioned above.

     

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 9:56am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Question

    It seems this is very murky water. On the one hand there are those saying it was manipulated and on the other those saying natural. The circumstantial evidence certainly points to manipulation. On the other hand lots of virologists are saying it is natural.

    I am not a scientist so I have to rely on the best evidence available.

    My question is how do we arrive at clear unequivocal proof one way or the other?

    Supposedly the genome was mapped and published from China so that everyone could see it. Is it possible to tell from that info if it was monkeyed around or not? There was a video of a Dr. Petrova  from the Czech Republic in which she said she had studied it said it was a "mess". It was something she had not seen before in nature. She could not say one way or the other.

    I think the info Chris posted in the comments that were not in the video were very good. It certainly appears the case for manipulation is pretty strong.

    Perhaps it is time to get a video happening with a few virologists to discuss this in a detailed way.

    The video is by Susan Weiss a virologist with 40 years experience studying coronavirus. She gives a very good presentation but actually leaves a lot of questions unanswered. She says there is no evidence this came from the lab, but does not say it didn't. She does get into the furin cleavage issue which is pretty interesting.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlnUt9vK3-Q&feature=youtu.be

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 10:02am

    davefairtex

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    JC on a bike: 20 minutes well spent

    SP-

    That was an utterly compelling video by a really smart guy who knows how to do a scholarly takedown.

    Worth 20 minutes.  People in the field knew in 2011 this was a baaaaad idea.  And yet - NIH continued to fund it.  In China, no less.

    And as you said, by the subject matter expert deciding not to mention this common-for-them technique of modifying viruses, that's a coverup.  If there had been no crime, then there would be no need for a coverup.  They're all in on it.  The field is just that small.

    It was all fun and games, until a million people lost an eye.

    A follow-on thought.  If we can get these people to testify before Congress, then it is possible that this  wasn't a plot.  If these guys start to have weightlifting or light plane accidents and/or committing suicide, then we can probably conclude this was something much more nefarious.

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 10:20am

    DefRef

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    Have you seen Yuri Deigin's analysis of the "natural" v. "man-made" issue?

    As interested bystanders in Hamilton, Canada, we spent our Saturday night going through Deigin's very long original article and very long update. His conclusion is either or. His best suggestion to us amateurs is for independent investigators to sequence the 2013 Yunan bat virus samples cited by the Wuhan IV, with a view to determining the integrity of its reporting from that point. https://medium.com/@yurideigin/ab-made-cov2-genealogy-through-the-lens-of-gain-of-function-research-f96dd7413748

    Two thumbs up for your Covid19 reports.

    George Vance, PhD

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 10:58am

    Jim H

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    Reply to Sonerous (and ML346)

    Sonerous said,

    Sadly, I’ve recently seen people who asked a question here being told to leave!

    That refers to me, and that is not what I said.  What I said was this;

    SteCool.. add something of value to the conversation, or leave.

    So, stop with the drama.  As emphasized well in later post by Dr. Bruce Dale... what SteCool and others are offering is not argument but rather contentless drivel.  Trollish behavior.  Chris pointed out that his message is under attack on different fronts, which most of us understand to mean that he is getting close over the target.  If you can't distinguish real content, real arguments, from trollish efforts to disrupt, then you are not going to be much help in the crowd-sourced search for truth that PP.com represents.

    Now to ML346.  Although his comment could be construed as counter to the pro-HCQ agenda that I push so hard here... I do not consider his comment as necessarily the work of a troll.  I will assume he/she is a genuine character who is seeking to understand some flack being thrown out against HCQ regarding G6PD deficiency.  I will therefore engage with ML346 and we can have a good ole' PP.com dialogue.  Here it comes... ready?  Remember we are talking about some theoretical chance of a bad reaction vs. a well proven 95% reduction in death rate for the elderly as well as younger people with obesity and those being treated for hypertension.  Bottom line, G6PD is a nothing burger;

        https://acrabstracts.org/abstract/hydroxychloroquine-is-not-associated-with-hemolytic-anemia-in-glucose-6-phosphate-dehydrogenase-g6pd-deficient-patients/

    ABSTRACT NUMBER: 741

    Hydroxychloroquine Is Not Associated with Hemolytic Anemia in Glucose-6-Phosphate Dehydrogenase (G6PD) Deficient Patients

    Samya Mohammad, Megan E. B. Clowse, Amanda Eudy and Lisa Criscione-Schreiber, Division of Rheumatology, Department of Medicine, Duke University, Durham, NC

    Meeting: 2016 ACR/ARHP Annual Meeting

    Date of first publication: September 28, 2016

    Keywords: Hydroxychloroquine

    Background/Purpose:  Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) is frequently used to treat autoimmune diseases. The HCQ package insert and online drug information resources report an increased risk of hemolytic anemia in patients with G6PD deficiency. However, no published studies quantify this potential risk, and the genetic forms of severe G6PD enzyme deficiency are very rare in the United States. A single abstract reported a 170 chart review, finding one G6PD deficient patient on HCQ with no adverse event. Through a retrospective chart review, we aimed to quantify the percentage of G6PD deficient patients with clinically significant hemolysis attributed to HCQ.

    Methods:  The Duke Medicine IRB granted approval for this study. We used a clinical search engine (Duke Enterprise Data Unified Content Explorer [DEDUCE]) to identify all patients who had a clinical visit with Duke Rheumatology, HCQ usage, and a G6PD level checked at Duke Health since 1996. A retrospective chart review was performed on all identified patients, recording demographics, G6PD levels, laboratory values consistent with hemolysis, etiology of hemolysis, and outcome of HCQ use. Data were analyzed using simple statistics.

    Results:  Two hundred seventy five patients met inclusion criteria by having a prior G6PD level and a prescription for HCQ. Our study population included 232 (84%) females and 43 (16%) males; 126 (46%) African Americans, 131 (48%) Caucasians, and 18 (6%) others. The leading diagnoses included 88 (32%) patients with lupus, 80 (29%) patients with rheumatoid arthritis, and 37 (14%) patients with other forms of inflammatory arthritis. Of the 275 charts reviewed, 11 (4%) of patients were G6PD deficient. The G6PD deficient patients had a total of 711 months of exposure to HCQ. One of the 11 G6PD deficient patients (9%) was found to have sulfamethoxazole/trimethoprim (TMP/SMX) induced hemolysis prior to the initiation of HCQ. This patient was later started on HCQ with no clinical adverse events noted. In 3 of 11 G6PD deficient patients, HCQ was discontinued: one after discovering G6PD deficiency (< 3 months HCQ exposure), one self-discontinued (24 months HCQ exposure), and one discontinued by hematology due to neutropenia (108 months exposure). Of the 264 patients with normal G6PD levels, 14 (5%) had hemolytic anemia at some point, caused by TTP (n=4), autoimmune hemolytic anemia (n=9), and pure red cell aplasia (n=1).

    Conclusion:  This is the largest study to date evaluating G6PD deficiency with concurrent use of HCQ. Among 11 patients with G6PD deficiency, only 1 had evidence of hemolytic anemia, induced by TMP/SMX prior to successfully tolerating HCQ for SLE without further hemolysis episodes. In this cohort, no G6PD deficient patients developed hemolytic anemia attributable to HCQ during 711 months exposure to the drug. These data do not support routine G6PD level measurement prior to initiating HCQ therapy.

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 12:37pm

    Janie-em

    Janie-em

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    The problem with many of the virologists who are Genetically Modified Virus deniers,

    is that they are on the receiving end of government grants, and Fauci holds their purse strings, so they bray the party line.
    Years ago I worked, briefly, in a lab doing computer aided drug design. One of the reasons I left was that it became clear to me that the top scientists I worked for were driven by profits not truth. One time I went to them and explained that the molecules we were modeling didn't fit and wouldn't work as intended (for drug design purposes) they told me to keep trying, in order to get the results the client wanted, even though it was clear, computationally, it wouldn't work. In other words, they didn't care so much about the scientific results, but in keeping the grant money. I have known more than one scientist driven by ambition and greed.

    Someone like Fauci, who has climbed to the top of that world power structure and stayed there over thirty years, doesn't get there without being extremely ambitious, and even compulsive and ruthless. I think he and others, like Gates, who are driving this dangerous game, think they can just keep playing it and damn the consequences, because they are furthering progress.

    "Oops, a genetically modified virus leaked out and killed hundreds of thousands and bankrupted the world! Oh well, time to roll up our sleeves and work on a vaccine!"

    and on their merry way they go, marching confidently into their idea of the future. It's why I referenced Hannah Arendt's phrase"the banality of evil" to describe the phenomenon of someone like Fauci. From wikipedia:

    "She, like others, was struck by his (Eichmann's) very ordinariness and the demeanor he exhibited of a small, slightly balding, bland bureaucrat, in contrast to the horrific crimes he stood accused of. He was, she wrote, "terribly and terrifyingly normal". She examined the question of whether evil is radical or simply a function of thoughtlessness, a tendency of ordinary people to obey orders and conform to mass opinion without a critical evaluation of the consequences of their actions. Arendt's argument was that Eichmann was not a monster, contrasting the immensity of his actions with the very ordinariness of the man himself... She pointed out that his actions were not driven by malice, but rather blind dedication to the regime and his need to belong, to be a joiner."

    I think people like Fauci and Gates, are "terrifyingly normal" in that they are blindly and confidently dedicated to their regime of scientific progress and vaccine research. They are willing to further this dangerous gain of function research, despite the cataclysmic risks it poses.... because they can. They are members of an elite powerful club. Now they are in the world spot light because of it and hailed as heroic leaders by the ignorant masses.

    They are more like Eichmann than J Robert Oppenheimer.

    Oppenheimer was the"Father of the Atomic Bomb" who had the insight and humility to realize what horror he had unleashed upon the world, and famously said of it: "Now I am become Death, destroyer of worlds."

    We have now passed the Atomic Age and have entered the Age of Virology.

     

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 1:18pm

    wildtravel

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    Deafening Silence

    I value the many valuable and insightful contributions from some commentators in this thread, amongst a sea of off-topic dross.

    I am nevertheless  troubled by what appears to be a complete absence of any response to the central theme of Chris’s video, “Bombshell! Covid-19 lab-made.  Fauci connected”.  No Bombshell here, or any where else for that matter!

    Chris presents us documentary evidence that the US NIAID “off-shored” the dirty work of  playing god and engineering the SARS COV 2 virus to China, and nobody can add 2 and 2 and admit the Covid-19 pandemic originated in the good ol’ USA.

    Establishing criminal negligence (malfeasance) in public officc by NIAID would require proof that NIAID was well aware that it was literally impossible to guarantee that the experiments it funded presented NO THREAT WHATSOEVER that humanity would be subjected to such as this very pandemic.  That’s a no-brainer, in’t it?Of course they knew they were playing the odds with all our lives! And patently, whatever steps NIAID did take to mitigate these risks, it simply wasn’t possible to eliminate then entirely.  As history has taught many times.

    So why the deafening silence in the land of the free and the home of the brave, and across the world about this?   Why am I not hearing Americans shouting from the rooftops that their own country has spent their money to become the root cause of this global tragedy?

    The evidence of alleged criminal negligence by NIAID in causing this pandemic is on the public record.  Why haven’t America’s most popular TV personality, Dr Fauci and his cronies been indicted?

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 1:35pm

    Jim H

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    Very thoughtful post Janie-em...

    I was thinking yesterday of exactly the analogy you painted for us.. i.e. the parallels between the scientific discovery of the atomic bomb and what has now (seemingly) happened in the realm of virology.  You brought the idea to written life better than I could have : )

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 2:56pm

    yagasjai

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    Most Recent Estimates for Covid-19 Lasting On Surfaces

    I have not been able to follow these threads in the recent weeks as closely I had in the beginning of all this, so I am unsure if I missed any new information with regards to how long Covid-19 lasts on surfaces. I know the standard number of days for rotating masks is 9 days. And I also remember the report that came out in April from the New England Journal of Medicine which said 24 hours for cardboard and 3 hours in the air. Yet that did not seem to change the opinion about giving 9 days for rotating masks. So I have continued to let packages, mail, non-perishable groceries, etc... sit for at least 9 days before handling them (using the precautionary principle of erring on the side of most caution until there is solid evidence that the precautions are not needed). Those living with me are frustrated with these measures, so I wanted to check if I am missing anything: if any info has come along to suggest less than 9 days is adequate.

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 4:20pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Janie-em

    Thanks for the response. I am looking for something more concrete in terms of science.

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 5:01pm

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1019

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    Welcome to your future.

    Alaska has started to open up again. So far I have gotten my hair done, gone shopping at a 2nd hand store and gone out to dinner and had a much needed margarita.  It is wonderful to feel normal again.

    Doctor’s can start performing out patient surgeries like knee surgeries and Dentists can perform needed procedures as well.  Provided -  a/the patient gets a Covid-19 test within 48 hours of the procedure and it’s negative.  If, of course the test results are not ready within the 48 hours they would have to be done again, Supposedly. It may be a problem for outlying areas to get the test done and meet the 48 hour turn-around time.  Oops didn’t meet the deadline then stick that test stick up your nose again and reschedule your appointment for round two.  I suspect there may be  problems with this new plan.  Especially due to our geography and transportation challenges.  Teeth cleaning do not require a test.

    Emergencies will not require testing before treatment.

    Hey, remember when you could schedule something and actually count on having it happen?  Yeah, me too.  Welcome to the world of “iffy/maybe”.

    Something tells me people are not going to want that test stick shoved up their nose every time some entity wants you to prove your health, wellbeing and status.

    Time will tell.  Big Brother awaits.

    Are you willing to be routinely tested?

    AKGrannyWGrit

     

     

     

     

     

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 5:12pm

    Cia

    Cia

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    D614G

    I just read about this mutation at Thailand Medical News. It said it may worsen clinical outcomes and make development of a vaccine impossible. It also mentioned that it represented an increase of function. More genetic meddling? How much worse can it get?

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 5:20pm

    Angi

    Angi

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    Back to the Future - TESTING!

    Hey Y'all - It's time we talked! .......(AK Granny is right). Jim H. Sand-puppy, Les, Jan, Linda, Chris, Adam??????

    The BIGGEST Next Battle on COVID-19 That You Don’t Know Your Position On Yet

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 5:35pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Joined: May 17 2017

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    The Darwin Award

    Stillwater Ok. is the latest winner of the Darwin Award.

    Not only is it a constitutional right to not wear a mask but you can also threaten a shopkeeper with a gun if he/she requires you to wear one to enter the shop.

     

    https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/government-and-politics/stillwater-rescinds-mask-order-after-businesses-report-employees-threatened-with-physical-violence-by-those-opposed/article_6a5257e7-2a41-5d3c-bc16-03a2ec659494.html

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 5:57pm

    AKGrannyWGrit

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    Absolutely right Raingarden

    What I did not say in my last post is that we are not interested in testing.

    Secondly, I know it’s heresy with this crowd but I don’t wear a mask unless there are a lot of people around and then it’s for your comfort.  I am not living in fear.  I had the virus and refuse to be hysterically fearful.  But, I am polite and respectful and carry a mask in my pocket and will put it on for you should we be in close contact.  No obsessing about mail, I ran into a friend and gave her a hug.  Anybody else dare to admit they are not obsessive mask wearers either?

     

     

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 5:58pm

    Mots

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    "The problem with many of the virologists......."

    Janie-em
    Your comment "[o]ne of the reasons I left was that it became clear to me that the top scientists I worked for were driven by profits not truth" is spot on and comports with my experience as well.
    Even in the 1980s this was a problem.  I also left formal science work at the university level because money (in this case grant money) trumped truthfulness.  As an exercise, check the MIT press releases, which match very closely in time and in subject matter submitted research grant proposals, with mostly contrived possible results and positive transformations of society if only the research is funded.   I discussed this with my old wise professor (who was one of the top 300 most cited scientists in the world with 3o years experience) back in the 80s and he explained that this situation did not exist before the federal government got involved as a major funding source in the 1960s, which attracted the money seekers who push aside serious objective search for truth, which used to characterize the grand enterprise of Western science.
    I went back to my old research program 25 years later and attended the usual Friday research seminar and was amazed that the only people speaking were politicians and most of the "research" goals were contrived situations, (which apparently meet details of granting agency solicitations, which themselves are written by politicians).

    I am afraid to say it but every aspect of America economic life including those aspects we hold dear, such as medical research has become rotted out beyond belief and beyond redemption.  CHS is right, the US is a pile of overlapping racketeering schemes.  Really, the best response is to run away, run away and start a small resilient community somewhere.  The dark ages are well underway.  Get out from the rot while you still can.

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 6:05pm

    Mary59

    Mary59

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    Speaking Up

    I am putting my name up here publically to support PP.  My name is Mary Otto-Chang.  I worked in the UN for many years.  I looked at the history of WHO and its leadership and how its spends its money.  I investigated its budgets and found Gates money hidden in front organizations and so on.  Dr. Tedros has had one petition about his past.  https://www.change.org/p/www-who-say-no-to-dr-tedros-adhanom-as-next-who-director-general.

    Another million strong petition asking for his removal now. https://www.change.org/p/united-nations-call-for-the-resignation-of-tedros-adhanom-ghebreyesus-who-director-general

    I am a well educated 60 year old retired professional, working on my PhD now.  I am not particularly stupid, neither am I naive, nor insane.

    After alot of investigation and thinking I believe 100% that SARS-CoV-2 is a human engineered creation.  I believe it was part of bioweapon research.

    I am going to write an article with links about WHO.. all facts with references.

    I have alot of evidence on tape from my Geneva days as my deadman's switch, in the event anyone from the deep state is reading this.  The more people who stand up, the more protected we all are.

    Speaking Up for Life Insurance for All

     

     

    I also think that powers exist behind the scenes, such as in the Wizard of Oz.  I know that big pharm has been controlling WHO for years.

    Thus I am speaking up, putting my long worked for professional reputation on line here.

     

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 6:16pm

    wildtravel

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    Confirmation Bias

    So true, Janie-Em.  Irrespective of objective evidence to the contrary, most people’s response to an issue is pretty much ordained  by a confirmation bias towards where their bread is buttered.  It’s the way all we humans roll.

    There’s no surprise,really in the open hostility towards adapting to paradigm shifting global events from those paralysed to the dominant paradigm.   I  was writing to the same point as a global phenomenon, at the same time apparently.

    Picking up on SandPuppy’s reference to the straw man, aka the red herring logical fallacy, employed to divert and distract from an inevitable logical conclusion, it is worth noting all that all articles of faith rely for their proof on logical fallacies.

    The rationale employed by NIAID to justify funding these gain of function experiments is another straw man, I would suggest.  The logic goes:

    Major premise:  Pandemics occur naturally,
    Minor Premise: If we first build these monsters pre-emptively, we can protect humanity by developing vaccines for them before they appear naturally,
    Conclusion:  Risking humanity itself to save humanity is a good bet

    Say what!!  I am supposed to believe if we first create what does not exist before it exists, we might, just might, maybe, possibly develop a non existent antidote to said non existent threat before it actually exists.  But, oh dear, the threat becomes real the moment we create it!  Catch 22.  That’s as insane as some firefighters here who go around setting fires on total fire ban days, so they can be a big hero putting them out.

    This one might be best described as the non existent straw man fallacy.  No wonder epidemiologists call these Frankenstein monsters where they cut and shunt nasty bits on benign viruses “chimeric viruses”.  The whole scam was submittedly a very sophisticated chimera from pillar to post.  Surely the real agenda all along has always been to invent and defend against bioweapons?

    Closing with Janie’s analogy between the existential threats of the Atomic Age and those of the Viral Age, isn’t this just a rerun of Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD)?

    First raise the bogeyman of an imaginary global threat from some unspecified foe, to justify making that threat real, to defend against the non existent threat.  That worked well, didn’t it?

    And now the genie is out of the bottle yet again, and what we had is gone.  I for one would like to see these psychopaths who caused this unprecedented human tragedy brought to account.

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 6:34pm

    kunga

    kunga

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    Posts: 324

    Mike Maloney Video

    There's a new special report video at goldsilver.com

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 6:49pm

    sofistek

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    Posts: 712

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    Normal?

    So far I have gotten my hair done, gone shopping at a 2nd hand store and gone out to dinner and had a much needed margarita. It is wonderful to feel normal again.

    None of those things mentioned were "normal" to humans until very recently. Even now, they are "normal" to probably a minority of humans. It won't be too long before they are permanently a small part of human history.

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 6:53pm

    sofistek

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    Gain consent before violating someone's private space in the current crisis

    Next time, Granny, perhaps you could ask your friend if she would like a hug, before doing it? And let her know that it's fine if she says no.

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 7:25pm

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1019

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    sofistek

    You assumed I grabbed her and gave her a hug?  Perhaps against her will?  Some friends are huggers and some are not.  Isn’t it a shame that we are so afraid of each other.  Maybe that was the plan.  Close knit communities, can’t have that.  Friends over, nope they might be infected, you never know.  Everyone is suspect accept me and the.  And sometimes I wonder about the.

    Duh, of course I asked if she wanted and needed a hug.  What an odd question.

     

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 7:41pm

    -Casey

    -Casey

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    -Casey said:

    You are intentionally going out of your way to pretend not to understand Granny’s point which is that historically we are  evolved to be physically close to one another. Not that we are necessarily at nail salons or haircutting places or bars but that we are evolved to be physically close to one another as social animals.

    I haven’t worn a mask, don’t wear a mask and will never wear a mask because this thing is at least overblown drama if not a complete hoax.

    Many of you agree with me about 9/11 and yet you don’t think they would deceive us over this?  Our monetary system is a complete fraud and you don’t think they would deceive us over this? All the false flags that this community has generally agreed have occurred over the last century and you don’t think they will deceive us over this?    All of the fraud that the GMO and Monsanto companies and banks and the CME commit and they would not deceive us over this?  You’re deluding yourselves.

    I forget whether I saw it here or elsewhere that the main conference room in the World Health Organization has in the window a statue of Shiva the Destroyer.   There is a parallel reference in Atlas Shrugged to the same statue being in the office of a powerful bureaucrat who decided what industries lived or died, i.e. which are “essential“ and “nonessential.”

    This is the last play of the globalist tyrants’ hole card and you are going to have to dig in and pick a side.   It is my own opinion and hope that the winning side will not be that of Mr. Globalist.

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 7:50pm

    AKGrannyWGrit

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    Sofistek - I disagree

    None of those things mentioned were “normal” to humans until very recently. Even now, they are “normal” to probably a minority of humans. It won’t be too long before they are permanently a small part of human history.

    Actually women have been taking care of their appearance and concerned about grooming for thousands of years. Perhaps you are not aware that Cleopatra used sugar paste to remove body hair and used various ingredients to enhance her appearance.  And trading (shopping) has also been around for forever as has dining together.  So really, nothing new and each activity will no doubt continue,

    However, frequenting small, locally owned businesses helps them to survive.  If we don’t help each other how will we survive? Perhaps we will need to make an effort to support our communities?

     

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 7:55pm

    wildtravel

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    Fair Go!!

    Sofistek did unfairly judge you AKGranny.  I don’t agree with your concern about civil liberties either, but as a person who tries to live in the world in good faith too, I do resonate with your sense of loss; “Everyone is suspect accept me....”

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 8:22pm

    Jim H

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    Epic post Casey. Thank you.

    I choose to wear a mask at times because I still don't fully understand this thing.. but I think we need to open again and get back to a reasonable kind of normal.  This has been way overplayed on many fronts..  as you probably know I have been laying bare the lies about hydroxychloroquine.  Honestly, if I knew I could have access to the med's were I to get sick, I would be ready for full normal again.

    We cannot let our Freedom's get taken away from us this time... not like last time (9/11).  We need to keep calling out the deep state agents like Gates and Fauci who clearly do not have our best interests in mind.  This is, in some way, our last chance... our last stand.  If we don't stand now, we should just pack it in.

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 9:06pm

    Angi

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    Right to choose

    I have masks but I feel very conflicted about wearing one and so far I have not, for the following reasons.

    1) I have monitored and evaluated the risk in my community as remaining low and I keep my distance at all times. 2) To me the Mask is a Muzzle and should I decide to protest the government over reach, that would be my slogan. 3) What do you think happens to people's emotions and feelings about others in communities where you can no longer smile and be smiled at ? 4) It is absurd that we should be dictated to, by governments and corporations whose values and deeds are completely opposite of what they say and have never demonstrated that they have our best interests at heart.  5) Every single day it becomes more apparent that we are in the midst of a diabolical "Divide and Conquer" strategy of the highest order. 6) Mandatory mask wearing is the forerunner of mandatory vaccines. 7) Each individual adult has been advised of the situation (adnauseum) and should be able to make health decisions in their own self interest and their level of risk.  I totally respect Chris's idea / scenario, that everyone should wear a mask but the problem I have with that is that it does not take into account any other possible nefarious agendas re: masks,  and it does not factor in any possible "Psyop" factors which I think cannot be denied now that the fog is partially lifting.***Lastly I reserve the right to change my mind should new information come forward.

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 9:18pm

    Angi

    Angi

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    Oregon Testing

    Oregon State to remove children from homes when parents/caregivers test positive for COVID 19.

    https://montanadailygazette.com/2020/05/01/state-plans-to-confiscate-children-if-parents-test-positive-for-coronavirus/

    "CONTACT TRACING" surveillance to be a key factor in Oregon's Ultra Progressive COVID 19 Lockdown Plan:

    https://www.kgw.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/much-more-slowly-than-any-of-us-would-like-oregon-gov-brown-lays-out-requirements-for-counties-regions-to-start-reopening/283-dcf01f97-c5d5-4b21-aca2-7a8bbff52e94

    What does this mean?
    It means if you are at the store, and someone else was there at the same time as you (and they test positive), you can be tracked down. If they do, and you test positive, your children can be taken into protective custody.

    It also means (like Wuhan), this could be used as a tool to persecute political dissidents.

    Oregon's Gov.Brown is launching an ambitious COVID 19 testing program, which will RANDOMLY select 100,000 Oregonians for testing.

    https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/oregon/articles/2020-05-01/oregon-to-do-random-testing-on-100-000-people-for-covid-19

     

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 9:20pm

    Linda T

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    Re: masks

    Granny,

    Granny,

    I’m not obsessive about wearing masks, depends on how many people are around and how close they get to me, and I picture the spectral (or whatever it was) video Chris included a couple of times. And I’m not up for the mandatory routine testing, private please.

    Linda

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 9:20pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

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    hat tip, Kunga: Mike Maloney's video, special report (5/3/20)

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 9:27pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

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    Lynette Zang, on fire, "Will You Agree to be Tracked?" (video, 4/30/20)

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 9:31pm

    Linda T

    Linda T

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    Re: Back to the Future - TESTING!

    Raingarden,

    Wow, I finally had a chance to look at this (after planting some sweet potato slips in soil so they can grow some more until the soil is warm enough to be planted outside).

    "The BIGGEST Next Battle on COVID-19 That You Don't Know Your Position On Yet"

    https://jameslyonsweiler.com/2020/04/20/the-biggest-next-battle-on-covid-19-that-you-dont-know-your-position-on-yet/

    I found the timeline included in the very first comment below the article, not to say the article wasn’t interesting either, both interesting and disturbing, and the ones that especially caught my eye:

    “2017-Dr Fauci said there will be a surprise outbreak during the Trump administration. He said this in a speech in January 2017 -given at Georgetown University on Pandemic Preparedness

    2019, the Strategic National Stockpile was transferred from the CDC to BARDA, and BARDA’s budget was increased by $722 million to a total of $2.2 billion. The stockpiles for life-saving medicines and medical equipment had been depleted during the bogus H1N1 influenza epidemic in 2009. The emergency stockpile was never replenished with essential medical equipment, therapeutics, or personal protective equipment (PPE) for doctors and nurses. The lives of both patients in need of ventilators, and the lives of medical professionals were put at increased risk of death.

    September 20, 2019 – ID2020 and partners launch program to provide digital ID with vaccines

    October 18, 2019 Bill Gates funded study of Event 201 at John Hopkins University along with the World Economic Forum, simulating a pandemic eerily similar to Wuhan Virus. Attended by George Gao of China CDC

    2019-November 7. Bill Gates predicted a coronavirus-style pandemic would sweep the population in a Netflix documentary , in episode titled Next Pandemic. In the episode, titled The Next Pandemic, producers visit a wet market in Lianghua, China, where animals are killed and their meat is sold in the same place. Bit of Preprogramming there me thinks

    2019- Dec 16, China has announced the goal of launching an innovative national vaccine tracking system before March 31, 2020. According to media reporting by China Daily on December 16, 2019, a recent circular jointly issued by the National Medical Products Administration (NMPA) and the National Health Commission says ‘this system will enable the traceability of all vaccines on the Chinese market.

    January 13, 2020, Agnes Buzyn, still France’s Health Minister, classifies chloroquine as a “poisonous substance,” from now on only available by prescription. An astonishing move, considering that it has been sold off the shelf in France for half a century.

    January 15, 2020 China and US sign trade deal where China promises to protect US intellectual property rights (eg patents on drugs, vaccines, etc)

    January -2020 , World Economic Forum’s release of the White Paper Reimagining Digital Identity: A Strategic Imperative. A paper written with financial support from the ID2020 partner Accenture with the message that the world is in need for a more secure digital identification because of “fraud, identity theft and misuse or abuse of personal data” in the current fragmented systems.

    January 23, 2020. The Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations (CEPI) unveiled funding for early-stage vaccine programs.

    Cambridge based Moderna disclosed that it’s working with federal researchers on a candidate, and now it’ll have financial backing from CEPI.”

    Snippets from other comments:

    “In a very toxic world, a healthcare system that can’t or won’t talk about detoxification, nutrition, and vitamin deficiencies/supplements, but only likely more toxic pharmaceuticals and possibly toxic vaccines (flu vaccines that still have mercury in them, for instance) is a healthcare system that no one needs.”

    Has anyone else heard about this or read anything about this?

    “Its not you exactly, but when I learned that the test kits provided by the CDC (a private company) were contaminated with covid19 it provokes the thought that WTF how does that even happen?”

    Another one which is spooky:

    “I asked Dr. Rasnick what advice he has for people who want to be tested for COVID-19.

    “Don’t do it, I say, when people ask me,” he replies. “No healthy person should be tested. It means nothing but it can destroy your life, make you absolutely miserable.” …

    “Every time somebody takes a swab, a tissue sample of their DNA, it goes into a government database. It’s to track us,” says David Rasnick. “They’re not just looking for the virus. Please put that in your article.” …”

    Linda

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 9:37pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

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    George Gammon, "Government Digital Currency: Why You Should Be TERRIFIED!" (video, 4/13/20)

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 9:43pm

    Linda T

    Linda T

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    Re: Confirmation Bias

    wildtravel,

    “First raise the bogeyman of an imaginary global threat from some unspecified foe, to justify making that threat real, to defend against the non existent threat.  That worked well, didn’t it?

    And now the genie is out of the bottle yet again, and what we had is gone.  I for one would like to see these psychopaths who caused this unprecedented human tragedy brought to account.”

    Geez, having we poisoned the earth and its inhabitants enough? Apparently not.

    I agree with you, they’re psychopaths (to put it mildly) and I would love to see them brought to account, but unfortunately, we don’t have a very good track record of bringing psychopaths and monsters to justice. It usually takes many years, sometimes one or two generations go by.. and a huge outcry and a LOT of people calling for justice. I am not sure if the sheeple’s have it in them to join in with us truth-seekers, but hopefully it’s still early enough in this disastrous fiasco to start hearing from them.

    Linda

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 9:49pm

    jerryr

    jerryr

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    D614G: Suddenly the dominant strain??

    Here's the paper about the D614G strain, from Los Alamos National Labs and Sheffield UK.

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.29.069054v1.full.pdf

    From the abstract:

    The mutation Spike D614G is of urgent concern; it began spreading in Europe in early February, and when introduced to new regions it rapidly becomes the dominant form. Also, we present evidence of recombination between locally circulating strains, indicative of multiple strain infections. These finding have important implications for SARS-CoV-2 transmission, pathogenesis and immune interventions.

    A new strain of the virus has almost completely wiped out the old strain in just a month? Recombination indicative of multiple strain infections? Could one strain dominate the other within a single individual? I can hardly imagine how this is even possible.

    Can anybody make any sense of this?

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 9:50pm

    sofistek

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    Read

    I said it wasn't normal, not that it was never done. I doubt Cleopatra could be thought of as the average woman.

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 9:55pm

    Linda T

    Linda T

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    Re: George Gammon, "Government Digital Currency: Why You Should Be TERRIFIED!"

    Listening to the video now, but as far as downloading an app, not everyone has a smartphone to download an app, nor do they want one. I believe it was earlier this week, when I read an article that said 18% of Americans don't have smartphones. I tried to find it but couldn't unfortunately to include the link.

    Linda

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 9:56pm

    sofistek

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    No

    No, Granny, I didn't assume you just grabbed her but it's common for people to greet another with open arms for a hug. As your friend, she may have been uncomfortable in the current circumstances but didn't want to offend her friend. Alaska may be loosening restrictions differently but, over here (in New Zealand), restrictions to do with physical distancing will be in place for some time, even when cafes, etc, open up, so hugging someone who isn't in your "bubble" (a term used here for a small group who are living together with an allowance for including close relatives who are living separately). In our situation, I wouldn't expect hugging of friends to return until we reach our lowest alert level or until we have eliminated the virus (zero new cases today but not eliminated).

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 10:00pm

    sofistek

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    Watching the hoax?

    Casey, if you think this is a hoax, why are you watching these videos? Chris Martenson raised the alarm on this very early and has been updating us ever since. Or maybe you just regard this as a sounding board for your ideas?

    The idea that governments are tanking their economies around the globe, with the democratically elected leaders risking not getting back to power just to perpetrate some hoax and are collaborating globally on this, is, to me, a ridiculous notion.

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 10:06pm

    AKGrannyWGrit

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    I did read

    I said it wasn’t normal, not that it was never done. I doubt Cleopatra could be thought of as the average woman.

    Generations of women have used sugar paste for hair removal.  They have used jewelry and hair combs. Gotten tattoos, soaked in fermented milk to lighten the skin and exfoliate. It is all normal.  Really you want to tell Granny what is normal regarding women's beauty rituals?

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 10:39pm

    VeganDB12

    VeganDB12

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    maybe you can send this article to Chris jerryr

    It is very technical, but I know from my locale at least one person had infection with 2 strains of the virus.

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 1:38am

    sofistek

    Status: Platinum Member

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    Judgement

    Wildtravel, what do you think I unfairly judged about granny?

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 1:44am

    sofistek

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 02 2008

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    Generations

    Hey, modern humans have been around for 200,000 years. For almost all of that time, I doubt women were concerned about removing some of their hair. However, this is getting way off topic. Have fun with your hard won freedoms.

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 2:01am

    French connexion

    French connexion

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    Freedom is your right, being controlled is your choice

    That was Lynette Zang, #77 thank you Sparky.

    One of the underlying themes of our comments is a fear of the alterior motives driving the agenda of the "ruling class".

    This virus thing has an evil side to it - I think we all agree.

    Weird that countries like Senegal do way better than France or the United States in controlling the virus.

    All the wrong information that was given to us from the beginning. SandPuppy brought up a key point about immunitary suppressors.

    Above Casey points out:

     

    Many of you agree with me about 9/11 and yet you don’t think they would deceive us over this?  Our monetary system is a complete fraud and you don’t think they would deceive us over this? All the false flags that this community has generally agreed have occurred over the last century and you don’t think they will deceive us over this?    All of the fraud that the GMO and Monsanto companies and banks and the CME commit and they would not deceive us over this?  You’re deluding yourselves.

    I forget whether I saw it here or elsewhere that the main conference room in the World Health Organization has in the window a statue of Shiva the Destroyer.   There is a parallel reference in Atlas Shrugged to the same statue being in the office of a powerful bureaucrat who decided what industries lived or died, i.e. which are “essential“ and “nonessential.”

    I would just like point out - Shiva. My point is not about Shiva, but Belial, there are different spellings to this name Béliar in French.

    No I am not going on a biblical study cf 2 Co 6, 15 - but rather a very strange and expensive ceremony which was held in the Swiss Alps for the inauguration of the Gothard tunnel. You do not need to understand what is being said, just wait for the eleborate spectacle (wait for the 1 minute mark) which was played in front of the entire ruling elite. Belial played a major role. here

    Malthusian - too many people using up finite resources - seem to be another meme for Bill Gates and the WHO.

    Control of the peoples is yet another meme: here

    In France we had a "Etat d'urgence sanitaire" imposed on us from the beginning of the confinement. These are extra-ordinary powers conveyed to the government "for a time". Well they just extended the time for two more months, until the 24th of July.

    OK I live in France - but don't think that someone in your area isn't going to try to:

    1. limits of movement
    2. "réquestion" of all goods and services to put an end to the crisis
    3. temporary control of prices

    In view a the financial crisis that we have entered - and which certainly will not have ended before July 24th - it is the second point which sends chills up my spine.

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 2:25am

    French connexion

    French connexion

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    Thanks to Jim H

    posting here

    Credit to Chris, Jim H, SandPuppy

    for helping us getting us to our present point.

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 2:30am

    davefairtex

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    granny: the SME

    Well gun to my head, if you asked me who is more likely to be the subject matter expert on the history of female beauty rituals, I would give the nod to Granny here.

    Sorry Sofistek.  I think Team Woke would call what you did, "man-splaining."  🙂

    But I do thank you for the comic interlude in what has been a ... pretty serious subject.

     

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 2:31am

    Sonerous

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    Sonerous said:

    Sonerous said, Sadly, I’ve recently seen people who asked a question here being told to leave!

    That refers to me, and that is not what I said.

    Hi Jim. I wasn't referring to you.

    The incident I referred to was in a different thread.

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 2:44am

    ml346

    ml346

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    ml346 said:

    I thank you for your answer and for not equating me with a troll. I have read the abstract you mentioned, and after reading Dr. Wodarg's article several times, I come to the same conclusion that you suggested. Maybe a study on 11 people with G6PD deficiency is too little to definitely relieve the HCQ, but it is an old drug used by millions. There should have been evidence of problems with G6DP deficiency before.
    Dr. Wodarg is not a nobody in Germany and like most people he tries to substantiate his opinion. There are so many questions as to why the mortality rates in Italy and Spain are so much higher than in Germany in order to stay in the EU. One difference is the G6DP deficiency within the population.

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 4:06am

    kunga

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    Lord Shiva / French Connexion

    Hi, I do agree with much you post.  I think the Shiva statue is  a good artistic rendition of the concepts of quantum mechanics and string theory.  I tend to agree, fire will be the next world destruction event.  The Hebrew G*d already tried water.  Unfortunately, India has lost much of its ancient scientific knowledge and much of the population has devolved into the superstition and poverty we see today.  Like in the west, before the Renaissance, all those book and library burnings and murders and banning of science pioneers, held knowledge back for a long time.

    I don't think the Shiva statue or concepts are bad, the problem is men who think they are G*d and want to play at being gods.  "Just because we can do something, should we do it?"  The question is as old as Nimrod and The Tower of Babble or Adam and the apple.

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 4:55am

    Galene77

    Galene77

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    Trump or Biden come Dec 2020 - what difference would it actually make?

    Westworld Season 3 has some belter scripting, this from the character ‘William’ a former Davos set chosen one… set in a timeframe some decades in the future.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKZYQ72N0To

    Decoherence?

    Has a certain Gates Geek Foundation seal of approval to it.

    The Davos/Silicon technocracy understand well the globe can be a paradise place once more as long as the maggots are culled, kept manageable, once more neatly packaged… and allowed to squirm in a well-defined tin.

    The process of this change management process is well underway, complete with its emerging lexicon:

    New Normal

    Legacy Systems

    Contact Tracing Apps

    FED/ECB/SterlingCoin

    DNA/RNA/Nano Gene Gun

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MGXePjIzXE

    Your freedom as you knew it, pre Dec 2019 is over.

    If you try and fuck with the system you’ll destroy your social credit score, and with a swish of a gleaming Govt screen you’ll be DIGITALLY locked out.

    Found, scooped-up put in the trash.

    Opt for that game play, you’ll need to head way above Alaska to live off the land, no cash, no fall back.

    Think you can do that?

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 5:50am

    French connexion

    French connexion

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    Maybe there is another way

    So far our "discussions" have been oriented towards the evil.

    A year ago, during the week leading up to Easter a fire burn down Notre Dame de Paris.

    A very sad time for the French. While the fire was raging a man was caught on camera walking across the bell towers - I don't have that here but this film is about the reconstruction of Notre Dame and how it has been saved. We need hope - this sort of a film documentary is a nice change from despondant thoughts.

    This link is good until May 12th.

    https://www.france.tv/documentaires/voyages/1370921-sauver-notre-dame.html

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 5:52am

    Ision

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    SARS-COV-2 Is Able To Alter Its Genetic Signature

    I have seen this in viral pathogens, like HIV.  And, since COV2, which is a modified virus, was provided with HIV, long-chain, genetic material..it is quite possible the specific HIV splice used was chosen to provide COV2 with HIV's ability to alter its genetic signature enough to present as a new virus, or strain.

    We used to call this characteristic "phase-shifting," wherein a virus would "shuffle" a portion of its RNA sequence just enough to fool the human immune system into considering it to be a new viral invader and causing the immune system to create new lymphocytes, macrophages, and antibodies to fight it.

    This ability of a virus to alter its code enough to seem to be a brand new virus, which we specifically adapted for use in biowarfare viral pathogens, makes creating a vaccine impossible for such an pathogen, unless it targets the non-shifting portion of the virus protein coating.

    This is why you have not seen an effective vaccine for HIV, and, if COV2 was provided this same ability with its HIV splice, you will never see a vaccine for it, too.

    But, FEAR NOT!   Instead of a vaccine, which relies on a stable genetic signature, a phase-shifting virus can be effected by a nucleotide serum, designed to attach to the "shifting" virus, via a specific receptor, which has the effect of preventing the virus from being able to scramble its signature.  Basically, when the serum attaches to the virus, it freezes its signature at that time...and, if the immune system is still able, the body can deal with the pathogen, which can no longer evade targeted antibodies.

    The problem with a serum is determining the sequence of its genetic material so it may attach and stop the virus from shifting.  This is a very hard thing to do, and few countries have this capability.

    This is why the biowarfare pathogens we developed, which use the phase-shifting capability to make any enemy counter to it impossible, have an established serum already developed, BEFORE, the pathogen is put into play.

    But, things can happen!   I asked my instructor, when being trained in these type of weapons..."What happens if the receptor on the virus mutates in the natural environment...or...if the virus, once it is worldwide, naturally mutates in such a way as to make our nucleotide serum for it cease to work?"

    "In that case," he said, "even our familiarity with the pathogen would not allow us to formulate a new, effective, serum...and we are all screwed."

    "Why would we EVER release such a weapon?" I asked, alarmed.

    "To avoid the outbreak of an imminent nuclear war," the instructor replied. "At the first indication of an eventual war," he explained, "the weapon is released and it begins to create casualties in various populations around the world.  AS the world begins to panic, and efforts to control the new disease fail, we eventually let the enemy government come to understand WE have a cure for the disease, which we will gladly let them have...IF they stand down their forces and perform other tasks, which we wish them to do.

    "Even if you NUKE us, and WIN the war, the pathogen will STILL BE OUT THERE, and will eventually KILL ALL OF YOU...and the cure we have for it will vanish with your victory."

    If the virus was released on purpose, it would mean a serum may exist.  If the virus was accidentally released, there may not have been any time before hand to develop a cure.  So, it is always better for such an agent to be a deliberate release.

    I just hope the COV2 virus display of rapid mutation and all the new strains, are not just mistaken symptoms for a virus, which has the ability to phase-shift....just like HIV.

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 7:14am

    kunga

    kunga

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    Harden the terrain

    Hi, Ision,  The master reveals a bit more.  Muchas gracias, Amigo.

    I think the CCP has some defence against the virus because the top brass hasn't been affected and they brag their navy is not infected.

    To stop this bug, I think the best defence is to beef up the immune system, create poor conditions for its survival, have a supplement protocol for each antigenic piece, be ever vigilant, wear PPE and follow disinfection procedures, knowing you will be exposed but keep the viral load as low as possible.  All these supplements and protocols have been discussed at PP.  Self discipline is the name of the game.

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 7:46am

    taz1999

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    Also Mercola, this article is wildly suggestive

    Could Retroviruses Play a Role in COVID-19?

    If valid, many dots of the disease get connected; it certainly checks a bunch of my bias boxes.

    Need someone smarter on this subject to look at.... Chris??

    And CDC has updated numbers cutting HBV deaths almost in half?

    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

    Whoa,  mangled the link.

    To the reduced CDC count,  I might suspect transcription error first because I see no motivation for CDC to downward revise.  The yearly flu claims seem to be an order of magnitude inflated.

    As of today it looks like CDC is running with the adjustment.  Where does worldometer get data??

     

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 8:14am

    Mohammed Mast

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    kunga

    Sorry to disabuse you of the notion that "  Unfortunately, India has lost much of its ancient scientific knowledge and much of the population has devolved into the superstition and poverty we see today.  " Nothing could be further from the truth. I have lived in India and have been travelling there for decades. It produces some of the most talented IT , engineering, and medical professionals in the world. It has a middle class more than 2x the size of the population of the US. Is there poverty ? yes. but your characterization is a gross misrepresentation

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 8:45am

    albacore

    albacore

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    Interesting story on Italy's excess deaths..

    ..from the Guardian's live feed (hopefully will be a full story soon): https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/may/04/coronavirus-live-news-mike-pompeo-pushes-virus-lab-theory-as-brazil-passes-100000-cases?page=with:block-5eb0304f8f0884a76e10cdb2#block-5eb0304f8f0884a76e10cdb2

    Two key points:

    • Excess deaths were significantly higher than official Covid-19 deaths (which is a pattern well-established elsewhere), and
    • The excess was particularly severe in the areas hardest hit by Covid-19, with some areas - Rome and Palermo - actually experiencing a fall in deaths compared with the 5 year average.

    To me this suggests that lockdown has an aggregate effect of reducing mortality (Rome and Palermo had lockdown but not much Covid) and therefore majority of the whole excess deaths effect (and then more) is likely caused by Covid-19.

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 8:45am

    davefairtex

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    lots of fear

    So let's see if I get this straight.  We're doomed, we're screwed, we're all gonna die, etc.

    The pandemic could also all be fine with the arrival of summer, the natural peaking of the cycle, and the endpoint of the HCQ PREP clinical trials.  And Zelenko may have something to say about it pretty soon too.  Fat lady = hasn't yet performed.

    I don't know about you, but I'm not gonna sit here and hide in my bunker and stress out about it.  Stress & fear = guaranteed to reduce efficiency of my immune system.  Why on earth would I do that to myself?

    You all can do what you want, but - I know I have a vote as to how it turns out for me.  I'm going to exercise my vote.  I want a positive outcome.

    Just saying.

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 9:32am

    Ision

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    Judy Mikovits, Ph.D. I Find Her Ideas Very Compelling

    taz1999:

    Thank you for this article, which I find very interesting, as she hits upon the same things I have been concerned with since the late 1970s.  But, I especially concur with her experiences during the 1980s response to AIDS...when I was first shocked by all the deliberate lies coming from government sources.

    If all a virus does is to change its genetic signature (phase-shift) on a clocked basis in tune with the human immune response, it will cause the complete collapse of the immune system...just by depleting its resources.  It does not need to attack immune cells directly, only to evade their products (by changing its spots), as it continues to goad those immune cells and the entire immune system into exhaustion.

    I also agree with her on the virus contaminated vaccines, as I was personally injected with such contaminated vaccines by order of the government, along with my wife.  We both developed the same rare cancer, in exactly the same location, within a year of each other.  It was then I discovered the batch of vaccine I was given had been contaminated in production with a virus known to cause the cancers my wife and I were afflicted with.  Lucky for us, we both survived what was normally an 80% fatal cancer, seen only in very old chronic smokers...and not in non-smoking, young adults.

    In biowarfare concepts, vaccines are always considered as a means to distribute products into populations without them knowing.

    So, once a weapon has achieved its intended goal, or to limit "back-splash," a campaign to vaccinate the desired population takes place...usually for reasons having nothing to do with the bioweapon...and we just include the weapon's "off-switch" in the mix.

    With a disease, people tend to blame God's Will to explain its comings and goings...and the mysteries it may engender.

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 10:36am

    AKGrannyWGrit

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    Ision, taz1999, and all

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 11:17am

    AKGrannyWGrit

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    At about the 32:00 minute mark

    Dr. Mikovits talks about how wearing masks can be detrimental and make us sick.  But might protect others.  Sounds like long term wearing of masks is really bad for the wearer.

    Watch the video above and decide for yourself.

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 11:42am

    kunga

    kunga

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    Posts: 324

    Mohammed Mast

    As per Rudyard Kipling: "Din!Din!Din!  You Lazarushian-leather Gunga Din!  Tho' I've belted you an' flayed you, By the livin' Gawd that made you, You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din!"

    Thank G*d for the English, don't cha know.

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 12:29pm

    Steven Kelso

    Steven Kelso

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    Posts: 19

    3+

    Confirmation Bias vs Radical Intelligentsia "Safe Space" vs Real Talk for Grownups, et cetera, ad nauseum

    I mean no disrespect to any of the folks who have enthusiastically engaged with the website beginning in 2020, but if you have 2020 join date, I barely even read your comments.

    Why? I unfairly presume that you have a hoarder mentality. Hoarders have nothing to offer this community. Neither do denial theorists (future hoarders). If you have a mind for Peak Prosperity-type topics, you would have been here much sooner. I apologize if I have pigeon-holed anyone, who like me, waited many years before becoming a subscriber.

    We're not here to pat each other on the back about our belief systems and like-mindedness; we're here to offer the best of ourselves to each other in the hopes of creating "a future worth inheriting". This isn't a forum for misguided culture wars.

    Do you know how to dig a well? Do you have experience with animal husbandry? Can you identify edible plants? Bravo if you were captain of the debate team and want to take Chris on (he likely welcomes the challenge), but please don't waste this forum's time.

    P.S. To the real trolls, I'm glad we'll never see you behind the paywall.

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 1:08pm

    Janie-em

    Janie-em

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    "Risking humanity itself to save humanity is a good bet"

    Yes wildtravel, I think Fauci almost says this idea in one of his interviews. Yes, psychopathic comes to mind. The hubris and lack of empathy are evident. Also evident, but maybe I'm imagining it, is their enthusiasm for the spotlight and being the world's  "pandemic priests."

    If they really were intent on keeping the world safe from pandemics they would have kept the pressure on world governments to ban GOF research, lobbied for intense scrutiny and safety for all the BL4 labs around the world, tried to limit their number entirely,and funded global groups on lab safety. Instead they are funding BL4 labs and bioweapons research.

    No wonder Gates left his Microsoft board seat, this career much more fun! How exciting is the no-flush toilet challenge compared to saving the world from a pandemic? Now he and Fauci are interviewed nightly on national television, they don't have to wait for a TED talk spot. Their pandemic war game "Event 201" even had corona virus designed toy pillows . How cool is that!? /s

    I am frustrated at the lack of media picking up the connections between this horrifically dangerous research and the people behind it, driving and funding it. As Chris has shown, some of the names, like Dazak, who are strongly denying the virus was lab created, and others not wanting a full investigation of the place of origin are part of the same gang who have been quietly driving this kind of research for years.

    Here's another name I'm interested in, Charles Leiber, the chair of the Chemistry Department at Harvard and an expert in chemical nanotechnology. His secrecy over ties with a lab in Wuhan, and subsequent arrest have me wondering if his research helps virologists and others to create bioweapons.

    I hope we will soon see a grass-roots campaign for the banning of gain of function research and other kinds of this kind of bioweapon research. I fear this is just the beginning of a terrible new age and we must meet it with moral clarity.

     

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 1:09pm

    wildtravel

    wildtravel

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    Grieving and Loss

    Hi Sofistek,

    Thanks for asking why I believe you unfairly judged AKGranny. You headlined your response to the clear breach of social distancing she described, saying “Gain consent before violating someone's private space in the current crisis”. IMO you wrongly prejudged she had violated another person’s personal space. As she corrected, your prejudice was just plain wrong.

    That being said, I share your concern that Granny boasted about breaching the social contract she owes to all humanity. IMO Granny is no different than all the other self-unaware people who deceive themselves they are the noble champions of society’s civil liberties, when IMO all they care about is themselves.

    Perhaps I was deceiving myself too in coming to the defence of someone who considers my view on another issue “Hogwash!”, by partially agreeing with you both on this issue?

    But then again I might have got it even further wrong by interpreting that fragment she wrote to you as an expression of her grief and sense of betrayal at what we have all lost to Covid. Maybe she didn’t mean ‘Everyone is suspect.’ ‘Accept me.’?

    Or perhaps Granny unknowingly made a Freudian slip, and actually meant ‘Everyone is suspect, except me.”?

    Mea culpa, if I too am guilty of holding self serving prejudices about both of you, that you are just like the rest of us, human, all too human, and going through the full catastrophe of trying to work through the stages of grieving; denial, bargaining, anger, self pity and hopefully ultimately acceptance?

    See what I meant about us all being responsible for Covid 19 now, Granny?

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 2:02pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Posts: 497

    Alex is that you?

    This site has devolved. One video that had some good science and some good questions has turned this into Infowars.com

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 2:04pm

    AssessX

    AssessX

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    Now we're providing SC2 the BEST possible opportunity!

    Aren't we about to undertake the worse possible strategy in opening up social and commercial activity after just two months? We've given the virus the opportunity to stealthily infiltrate a broad geographic area of our country because of the less than perfect adherence to the stay at home orders. Asymptomatic carriers are now seeded across the country. Testing is still so poor as to be useless in prediction and no significant contact tracing capabilities are in place. Now we're opening some of SC2's favorite venues! The virus is going to be very happy to meet a whole slew of new hosts who are merrily attempting to recreate "life before COVID"! I totally understand the economic pain we're all suffering. But doesn't the current strategy virtually guarantee a huge uptick in infections and resultant deaths? Please feel free to adjust my thinking on this. Common sense and what little we know about this organism seems to indicate we are about to do something really stupid.

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 2:07pm

    ron_white

    ron_white

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    ron_white said:

    nextnewsnetwork.com

    Check your your source of this, kinda sketchy

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 2:23pm

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1019

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    Wildtravel

    Yes, I better understand your point now.  Thank you for clarifying.

    Often we hear pronouncements like “people get the government they voted for and deserve”.  This seems to me to excuse criminal and bad behavior and blame those who have been duped.  Your statement sounded similar to me.  “We are all responsible for Covid-19”.   You see the predicament’s differently but I do see you are not blaming anyone but rather explaining your perception.

    That being said, I share your concern that Granny boasted about breaching the social contract she owes to all humanity. IMO Granny is no different than all the other self-unaware people who deceive themselves they are the noble champions of society’s civil liberties, when IMO all they care about is themselves.

    Interesting, but harsh.  If I only cared about myself I would not have offered a distraught friend a hug.  And, it seems to me we as a society are so focused on the disease we have forgotten that we are truly social animals.  Isn’t it interesting that touch in our society is more frequently displayed as an act of violence than a loving hug?  A sad representation of the state of our society.  The message - don’t get too close they are dirty” seems to be the virus motto, IMHO.  And your perception is that I am self-unaware and self deceptive?  Amazing, your thoughts, they give me a chuckle.😎

    AKGrannyWGrit

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 2:55pm

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

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    The media...

    Janie-em said,

    I am frustrated at the lack of media picking up the connections between this horrifically dangerous research and the people behind it, driving and funding it. As Chris has shown, some of the names, like Dazak, who are strongly denying the virus was lab created, and others not wanting a full investigation of the place of origin are part of the same gang who have been quietly driving this kind of research for years.

    The mass media is part of the machine that you are awakening to Janie... an integral part.  The mass media is captured.. at least most of it.  The NYT, WAPO, CNN.. these and many more are all mouthpieces for this corrupt, globalist elite... the same elite that wants to have wars when they say so, create bogeymen when they say so, and destroy individual politicians or entire countries (i.e. Libya) that would get in their way.

    Maybe you have not seen this when I have posted it in the past.. this is but a microcosm of the problem;

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGqi-k213eE

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 4:25pm

    wildtravel

    wildtravel

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    Hail Good Fellow

    And well met, Janie-Em.  Aren’t we privileged to be a part of a community of first class “dot joiners” on this thread?  There are some fabulous insights here developing on Chris’s reporting.

    The more I learn about this nightmare, the more I lament throwing my teddy in the fire when I was about 5!

    Did you get a chance to read Ision #160 (reply to #143) “SARS-COV-2 Is Able To Alter Its Genetic Signature”?  This person writes apparently authoritavely that the cut and shunt in SARS COV 2 inserted HIV material to make the virus a shape shifter.  And there is IMO a highly credible scenario presented explaining why this game might have been set in motion intentionally.  Absolutely diabolical.  

    I’m experiencing another chilly sense of déjà vu here, as I remember the preparedness of the intelligence agencies to deliver their political masters the required beat up on Iraq’s WMDs.

    Australia’s Prime Minister has apparently just received a briefing from Spook Central that suggests there is no evidence Covid 19 came from the WIV.  And we needn’t be concerned either, about the WIV collaboration with Australia’s Gene Shears experts in a level 4 lab about 100 km from me.  They’re good blokes, so she’ll be right, mate.

    I’m beginning to wonder if there is even any point in attempting to get to the truth, when the truth is that the truth doesn’t matter.  That which is real in its perception is real in its consequences.  Total war is here when it’s not here, and not here when it’s here.

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 4:31pm

    Hladini

    Hladini

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    Super Excellent Post

    Thank you Sandpuppy.  I'm reposting one of the articles you cited again in case anybody missed it:

    https://www.unz.com/pescobar/what-did-u-s-intel-really-know-about-the-chinese-virus/

    17+ Intelligence agencies and counting and they keep missing crucial, very important intel?  It's funny how they  would rather we believe they're incompetent!

     

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 4:54pm

    wildtravel

    wildtravel

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    Never in Doubt

    Granny, as I said, I never doubted you have a heart of gold and try to live in the world in good will and good faith towards yourself, others and nature.  As I do.

    I’m cool to disagree on PPE and social distancing, providing that if we ever meet, please don’t threaten to shoot me and give me a hug if I ask you to put a mask on?

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 5:09pm

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1019

    1+

    I like people who make get me to chuckle!

    Fair enough!  I will muzzle my tasers as well.

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 6:09pm

    Hladini

    Hladini

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    Posts: 185

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    The Milgram Experiment

    Unfortunately, Janie Em, you are right.   Speaking of the banality of evil,  you may be aware of the famous  Milgram Study designed to test the willingness of people to follow authority.

    Here's a link:  https://www.psychestudy.com/social/shock-experiment-stanley-milgram

    I have to admit, when I learned of this study in my late teens or early 20's in college, I realized I could have easily been one of those people turning up the lever upon command.   Not now of course, I'm a much more independent thinker and I'm a lot older, but the study all too clearly shows how easily we are manipulated and subject to illusion.

    As for Fauci,  I have complained bitterly to Trump about him. Did not like that guy the moment he was on my radar. I don't think 'ruthless' quite captures it.

     

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 6:13pm

    Janie-em

    Janie-em

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    Joined: Mar 05 2020

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    Your teddy reminds me of The Velveteen Rabbit and how they used to burn children's stuffed animals after Scarlet Fever

    Yes we are fortunate to have Peak Prosperity. I used to read this site every day during the economic crash, ten years ago. It was the first place I came when I started reading about the pandemic, Chris and Adam and the people here are so helpful.

    I read #160, fascinating. I think they are right about the HIV spike protein, and it will be interesting to see what the evidence ultimately shows about the virus. I think might possibly be like HIV and "hide" in the nerve cells, be dormant and then expressed in the body in times of stress, etc, but I'll wait for the scientific studies.

    I tend to disagree about this being a deliberate bioweapon leak. I don't ascribe to malice was probably an accident.

    I read a pre-print paper on BioRxiv, I think it was the site, now removed I believe, by a Chinese researcher who showed the virus probably originated in the lab in Wuhan. There was a story from another scientist at an adjacent lab, at the Wuhan Technology University who said he knew the female lab assistant researcher who was accidentally infected at the WIV and later died. I believe this is probably what occurred. Promotional photos of the workers at the lab, inadvertently revealed the faulty seal on the freezer that they were storing samples in, as well as their lack of PPE, no face shields, or eye protection, etc. It makes sense to me, having worked in labs before (though nothing this high level.) There is always the human element to contend with.

    It was a relatively recently founded BL4 lab and the Chinese were eager to come up to speed with the rest of the world. It's why I mentioned Dr. Charles Lieber, as he was courted by the CCP as part of their Thousand Talents Plan. He may have no bearing on this matter at all, but it's indicative of what the CCP is trying to achieve. Sometimes in science, people get so caught up in the race, that they cut corners and the result is disaster.

    I see the organizational failure of the WIV and the CCP, as somewhat similar to the Space Shuttle Challenger disaster here in the U.S.A. At the time, NASA was so intent on their program that the top down pressured culture silenced the people who were lower down in the hierarchy, who could have prevented the accident. This same CCP culture is why we can't rely on labs doing GOF research to ensure the world's safety. It's just too risky.

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 6:32pm

    sand_puppy

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    Posts: 2337

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    Whitney Webb on setting up the "Chinese Bioweapon" Narrative

    Factions are not shy about advocating bio-warfare nor are they entirely circumspect in sharing their desire to dominate the world.  (I have excerpted and edited her post.)

    [T]he now defunct neoconservative think tank Project for a New American Century (PNAC), openly promoted the use of a race-specific genetically modified bioweapon as a “politically useful tool.” In “Rebuilding America’s Defenses,”

    “… [future] combat likely will take place in new dimensions: in space, “cyber-space,” and perhaps the world of microbes…advanced forms of biological warfare that can “target” specific genotypes may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politically useful tool.”

    And the U.S. Air Force in “Biotechnology: Genetically Engineered Pathogens,”

    “The JASON group, composed of academic scientists, served as technical advisers to the U. S. government. Their study generated six broad classes of genetically engineered pathogens that … include ….gene therapy as a weapon … and designer diseases (emphasis added).” 

    The greatest competitors to the USA: Russian and China

    ….[T]he Pentagon has been open about the fact that it is devoting much of its resources towards the containment of what it considers the two greatest threats to U.S. military hegemony: Russia and China. China has been cited as the greatest threat of the two by several Pentagon officials.... at the Aspen Security Forum last July.

    .

    The Question

    So, why then, would the US Department of Defense be doing bio-warfare research jointly within former Soviet nations and China?

    Whitney Web in Unz Review, does a review of the diverse US based and US funded bio-warfare efforts with attention to those being conducted in China and the Former USSR nations.

    “Pentagon’s Defense Advanced Research Project Agency (DARPA) began spending millions on such [bioweapons] research in 2018 and some of those Pentagon-funded studies were conducted at known U.S. military bioweapons labs bordering China and former Soviet Nations.

    …Like much of the Pentagon’s controversial research programs, the bats as bioweapons research has been framed as defensive. …. However, a group of well-respected, independent scientists revealed in a scathing analysis of the program that, far from a “defensive” research project, the Insect Allies program was aimed at creating and delivering new class of biological weapon.

     

    Georgia, former USSR

    Pentagon’s open interest in bats as bioweapons was announced in 2018, the U.S. military began funding research involving bats and deadly pathogens, including the coronaviruses MERS and SARS, a year prior in 2017. One of those studies focused on “Bat-Borne Zoonotic Disease Emergence in Western Asia” and involved the former Soviet nation of Georgia, identified by former Georgian government officialsthe Russian government and independent, investigative journalist Dilyana Gaytandzhieva as a covert U.S. bioweapons lab.

    .

    Kazakhstan, former USSR

    The Kazakhstan-based Research Institute for Biological Safety Problems is another Pentagon-funded “bioweapons labs” in the Central Asian former USSR country of Kazakhstan.

    A study, entirely funded by the US department of Defense, discovered still more new strains of “novel bat coronavirus” was published just last year. Titled “Discovery and Characterization of Novel Bat Coronavirus Lineages from Kazakhstan,”

    The study’s authors are affiliated with either the Kazakhstan-based Research Institute for Biological Safety Problems and/or Duke University. The Research Institute for Biological Safety Problems, though officially a part of Kazakhstan’s National Center for Biotechnology, has received millions from the U.S. government, most of it coming from the Pentagon’s Cooperative Threat Reduction Program. It is the Kazakhstan government’s official depository of “highly dangerous animal and bird infections, with a collection of 278 pathogenic strains of 46 infectious diseases.”

    .

    Wuhan, China

    The Wuhan Institute of virology published a paper, "Discovery of Novel Bat Coronaviruses in Sought China That Use the Same Receptor as MERS-COV."   Lead author, Shi Zheng-Li, the "bat lady."  The study was jointly funded by

    1) the Chinese government’s Ministry of Science and Technology,

    2) USAID — an organization long alleged to be a front for U.S. intelligence, and the

    3) U.S. National Institute of Health — which has collaborated with both the CIA and the Pentagon on infectious disease and bioweapons research

    4) [and the pentagon through the PREEMPT program.]

    Duke University is also jointly partnered with China’s Wuhan University. Notably, China’s Wuhan University Institute of Medical Virology has worked closely with the US Army Medical Research Institute for Infectious Diseases (USAMRIID) since the 1980s, according to its website.

    So we have a cooperative/competitive relationship between the Wuhan Institute of Virology and the UNC Chapel-Hill group that includes Ralph Baric, both are actively creating chimeric coronaviruses seeking the best combinations of transmissibility, lethality and breadth (range of species that can be infected).  Zhengli trained with Baric at UNC, and Baric visits Wuhan.

    .------

    Building the “Chinese Bioweapon” Narrative

    Radio Free Asia lead the narrative creation effort (as described by Webb).

    …Radio Free Asia [is] the U.S.-government funded media outlet targeting Asian audiences that used to be run covertly by the CIA and named by the New York Times as a key part in the agency’s “worldwide propaganda network.” Though it is no longer run directly by the CIA, it is now managed by the government-funded Broadcasting Board of Governors (BBG), which answers directly to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, who was the [prior] CIA director.

    …. the Washington Times soon took [the narrative] much farther in a report titled “Virus-hit Wuhan has two laboratories linked to Chinese bio-warfare program.” That article, much like Radio Free Asia’s earlier report, cites a single source for that claim, former Israeli military intelligence biowarfare specialist Dany Shoham.

    Upon reading the article, Shoham does not even directly make the claim cited in the article’s headline, as he only told the Washington Times that: “Certain laboratories in the [Wuhan] institute have probably been engaged, in terms of research and development, in Chinese [biological weapons], at least collaterally, yet not as a principal facility of the Chinese BW alignment.”

    While Shoham’s claims are clearly speculative [and tangential], it is telling that the Washington Times would bother to cite him at all, especially given the key role he played in promoting false claims that the 2001 Anthrax attacks was the work of Iraq’s Saddam Hussein. Shoham’s assertions about Iraq’s government and weaponized Anthrax, which were used to bolster the case for the 2003 invasion of Iraq, have since been proven completely false.

    Conclusion:   It is my suspicion, that the locating of labs developing biowarfare agents within the national borders of one’s competitors could be a set up for a false flag following the general blue-print of Saddam Hussein’s fictitious anthrax attacks.

    We can withdraw our support for the USA vs China narrative by noticing that both countries were making highly dangerous chimeric coronaviruses.

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 6:47pm

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 2337

    4+

    The Pseudo-Science Behind The Mysterious Assault On Hydroxychloroquine

    Jim H, you need to summarize and review this article for us!

    I completely agree with it.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/05/02/pseudo-science-behind-the-assault-on-hydroxychloroquine/

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 7:11pm

    Hladini

    Hladini

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    Joined: Dec 28 2011

    Posts: 185

    2+

    Whitney Webb Rocks

    Another great post.  Whitney Webb is a real muckracking journalist and she documents everything.

    Not sure how I found Ms. Webb's article on the 201 event/crimson tide/dark winter (it may have been comments section on youtube from one of Chris' videos), but I'm glad I found her.  Never knew about Dark Winter!

    Just in case anyone's interested in reading more from Whitney  Webb, she does a great job of exposing these strange simulations.  For instance, Dark Winter was a simulation of a bioweapon attack, just a few months before the anthrax attacks.  I had no idea a simulation was done resembling the anthrax attack just before the anthrax attack!

    Gawd, these guys are cheeky.

    In case anyone wants to read it, here's the link:  http://thealtworld.com/whitney_webb/all-roads-lead-to-dark-winter

    She also did a piece on the POS Epstein, though I have not read that one yet.

    Back to your post,  I'm seeing a lot of china bashing in different comments sections.... the consent for war with china is getting manufactured in real time.

    PS: Use duckduckgo as ya'll's search engine, let's take a little bite out of the surveillance apparatus.

     

     

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 7:45pm

    sofistek

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 02 2008

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    2+

    Language

    Thanks for the reply, wildtravel. Yes, my title for the comment may have been interpreted in a more aggressive way than I intended, with the word "violated". Sorry about that, Granny.

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 7:51pm

    sofistek

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 02 2008

    Posts: 712

    Face Masks, Jurassic Park

    The Guardian reported on a report about face masks which has, supposedly, divided the scientific community.  However, I didn't notice any critical scientist saying what the downsides are supposed to be. I can't figure out medical scientists on this except that most research seems to be funded by companies with an incentive to do bad research.

    Very interesting latest video from Chris about this virus being made by humans. What are the implications if true?

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 8:18pm

    Justwondering1918

    Justwondering1918

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    1+

    NYT | January 2020 | FBI | Harvard | Wuhan

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/28/us/charles-lieber-harvard.html

    Jan. 28, 2020
    For months, news has been trickling out about the prosecution of scientists, mainly Chinese graduate students and researchers working in American laboratories.

    In 2011, the documents say, he signed an agreement to become a “strategic scientist” at Wuhan University of Technology in China, entitling him to a $50,000 monthly salary, $150,000 in annual in living expenses and more than $1.5 million for a second laboratory in Wuhan. In 2013, he celebrated the founding of a joint laboratory, the WUT-Harvard Joint Nano Key Laboratory.

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 8:18pm

    Linda T

    Linda T

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    Re: Duckduckgo

    Hladini,

    I've used Duckduckgo for 10+ years in addition to Firefox from Mozilla, plus several ad-blockers and other add-ons for additional privacy, inc Privacy Badger, Adblock Plus, and AdGuard AdBlocker.

    Just finished listening to "Shelter in Place with Shane Smith & Edward Snowden", an interview from April this year, I don't remember if someone had mentioned here or not, but just in case someone hasn't...

    thttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5OAjnveyJo

    A couple of quotes: "“Mobile phone is your new ankle bracelet...” “What is being built is the architecture of oppression”- Snowden

    Linda

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 8:56pm

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

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    About Dr Martenson's media reference expertise

    A few weeks back the media was referring to Chris as a "financial guru turned early coronavirus warner."    I was having a discussion with someone how I thought it was inappropriate , especially considering the site Chris runs.   So, as I spoke further , I realized the person did not fully understand the definition of the word "prosperity."

    And I see little that would not put the virus in the full scope of what Chris' and Adam's site is fully about.   I would have never have defined the site as an exclusive financial advisement site.  And certainly would not define Chris as morphing from one thing into another.  So, I looked up the definition of the word prosperity for the person I was conversing with.

    Prosperity is the state of flourishing, thriving, good fortune or successful social status. Prosperity often encompasses wealth but also includes other factors which can be independent of wealth to varying degrees, such as happiness and health. -wikipedia

    So, with that said, I correct the misbegotten media's reference to Chris' work.

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 9:03pm

    VeganDB12

    VeganDB12

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    downsides of face masks

    criticisms I have heard from healthcare workers and from others here:

    1. Masks inspire confidence causing people to stop worrying about other precautions like distancing and not touching your face

    2. a dirty mask could transmit the virus (people keep reusing them and touching them without cleaning them)

    3. people don't wear them properly and don't get a good seal, or pull them down to talk.

    If the virus is man made it is our little Frankenstein and we get to learn from the virus how it will behave, as opposed to learning from more closely related viruses like we do with new flu viruses. Worst case this could mean that we won't know it's long term consequences for years.  Thinking 9/11 health effects as an example.

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 9:05pm

    Jim H

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    Good article Sandpuppy!

    More and more voices are being raised against the fake news on HCQ.. here is one from Twitter;

    And here is what Dr. Shiva is saying about HCQ;

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 9:13pm

    SagerXX

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Feb 11 2009

    Posts: 446

    4+

    If Alaska and Hawaii ever end up next door to each other...

    ...I'll be happy to give Granny a hug.  No PPE required.  I'll just be sure to keep on taking my Quercetin and zinc and Glutathione/NAC/Vit C/sunlight/etc.

    VIVA -- Sager

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 9:26pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

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    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 734

    3+

    Chris' newest video, "Lying Virologists and Self-Inflicted Wounds" (5/4/20)

    Coronavirus: Are Our Scientists Lying To Us? (5/4/20)

     

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 9:36pm

    Janie-em

    Janie-em

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    Joined: Mar 05 2020

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    5+

    The Milgram Experiment

    Yes, I am, thank you!

    "Milgram's experiments, in a way, produced horrifying results showing that 65% people didn’t stop giving shocks.

    It’s now believed that one of the reasons why obedience to authority is so powerful is because it is the innate behavior of humans to obey what they are told. It is HOW WE ARE BROUGHT UP."

    Thank you so much for referencing this study.

    What keeps coming to my mind is how well brought up many of the players in this pandemic are. They are all smart, accomplished people. From the little I know, Fauci comes from a middle class Catholic family, as does Melinda Gates. Bill from a prominent Congregationalist family, but now he and Melinda attend Catholic Church. My point is that all of them were from families that emphasized order, obedience, social networking, and charity. There is much to be admired and lauded about their backgrounds, and I do. I think they are striving to do the right thing, as they know it.

    But... I also think they are like the teachers in the Milgram experiment, so eager to instruct, to teach, to be charitable, that they forget to pause and reflect about what exactly the results of their actions are.

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 9:49pm

    sofistek

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 02 2008

    Posts: 712

    Mask downsides

    Yes, VeganDB12, I've heard some of those criticisms but have not seen evidence presented that those downsides are either real or worse than no masks. Personally, I find wearing a mask makes me more aware of wanting to touch my face, so I avoid it. I certainly have seen a lot of people wearing masks badly but wonder if that is more a case of not educating people on the correct use. In any case, the more people who do wear them correctly, or in a way that's better than nothing, the better for all of us.

    Mind you, the thing I cringe at most is people who ought to know better wearing masks poorly, such as some doctors and nurses. Politicians also should set an example but rarely do.

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  • Mon, May 04, 2020 - 10:02pm

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1019

    3+

    Sager you made Granny Happy😎

    ...I'll be happy to give Granny a hug.  No PPE required.  I'll just be sure to keep on taking my Quercetin and zinc and Glutathione/NAC/Vit C/sunlight/etc.

    VIVA -- Sager

    That would be awesome! Thank you Sager you made my day! Virtual hugs, very fun.

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  • Tue, May 05, 2020 - 12:08am

    sofistek

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 02 2008

    Posts: 712

    1+

    France had a case in December

    Some samples from patients in December have been retested for Covid-19 and one was found to be positive (after multiple re-tests). So, France had a case in late December, a month before its first official case, but the source is unknown as the man (since recovered) had not travelled abroad recently.

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  • Tue, May 05, 2020 - 12:27am

    sofistek

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 02 2008

    Posts: 712

    A mutation model explaining acquisition of the furin cleavage site in the SARS-CoV-2 genome

    Too technical for me but this pre-print suggests a method of natural evolution of the furin cleavage site.

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  • Tue, May 05, 2020 - 1:34am

    planfortomorrow

    planfortomorrow

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    Joined: Dec 28 2017

    Posts: 99

    2+

    Hmmmm....

    Feels like a "webs we weave to deceive"! The answer is: Man made, was accidentally released and now the scientist that have garnered such acclaim in defense of the Human Race are now the subject of a massive cover up so that the Human Race doesn't lose the only hope they have which is our scientists will fix this! Are we sure? I am so glad I have found myself in the company of you Good Folks at this time of my life and History! Can't wait to see Brad play The Man, who by the way has lost a little bit of his God like sheen as he should have mentioned this stuff a long time ago. Something smells and Fauci has some explaining to do. I wondered why the briefings were cancelled, I loved them. I also wondered why Fauci wasn't at a lot of them at the end. Was this because the story was ready to be released and Fauci could have had to answer a lot of questions from the press? You have to look at everything and this too causes me to sit back and think. Folks, up to you to figure this stuff out, you can't trust anyone. Peace

     

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  • Tue, May 05, 2020 - 2:09am

    French connexion

    French connexion

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Mar 26 2020

    Posts: 176

    Sofistek

    Good morning. I don't know if the Guardian report is accurate. I am numb with the amount of information that I have read - and when I have read it.

    But if you accept from memory - I think I posted the original somewhere on the site. The very first death in Europe was a Chinaman - I retain that it was a man, a tourist, who died in France. Here is a reference.

    The Mulhouse cluster had important implications for spreading the virus around in France.

    I did not see the date mentioned, but there was a decree by the European government to close the frontier - visas - with China. France was the only country that did not do this - because of commercial relationships with China.

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  • Tue, May 05, 2020 - 2:32am

    French connexion

    French connexion

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    Joined: Mar 26 2020

    Posts: 176

    from the same article

    On 31 January, Marie Fontanel, the President counselor for solidarity and health, quit her job to help her husband in the coming municipal elections. She would be replaced only one month later.[41] The same day, all the countries of the Schengen Area, except France, suspended the issuing of visas in China.[42

    Marie Fontanel is the equivalent to Mr Fauci for President Trump. That she would not be replaced for a month meant that the French president went without a health councillor - not exactly ideal for a country about to enter an epidemy. This is also what we up against. Comedy of errors on one side, Fleeing her post along with the Minister of Health, Agnès Buzyn who tried to get elected as mayor of Paris.

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  • Tue, May 05, 2020 - 5:03am

    Hladini

    Hladini

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    Joined: Dec 28 2011

    Posts: 185

    Parrallels

    Thought I would  share this long interview with RFK, Jr.  In the first 30 minutes he totally dwarfs the problems with the virus AND the lockdown!

    Things are actually worse, folks.  This is a long one, but perfectly suited to our situation.

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=rfk+jr+interview&t=h_&ia=videos&iax=videos&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DQLi6ZrFp6vQ

     

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  • Tue, May 05, 2020 - 9:25am

    taz1999

    taz1999

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    Joined: Feb 25 2020

    Posts: 38

    Thanks for the link

    I tried to get the article/video from mercola.com before posting.  Whatever reason, I can never find his current stuff.  Seems mercola.com should make it easier to find.

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  • Tue, May 05, 2020 - 9:27am

    French connexion

    French connexion

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Mar 26 2020

    Posts: 176

    Apparently you are quite right

    I saw this on TF Metal's twitter

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924857920301643

    Hard to know what to believe in this storyline when you can go back and reorganize the beginnings.

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  • Tue, May 05, 2020 - 9:50am

    MQ

    MQ

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    Joined: Oct 13 2011

    Posts: 115

    contradicting the new social media meme, setting the record straight

    https://khn.org/news/fact-check-viral-post-alleging-obama-era-device-tax-caused-current-ppe-shortage-is-way-off/?utm_campaign=KHN%3A%20Daily%20Health%20Policy%20Report&utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=87428664&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-8Yxt9ry4J72bofNA5LPus_PJzXNuqPft1S5UcC0V-dg9F2s85IgUmeeNQGdQjUuWOJe8pVJL9c3QqVuUXMLOrZ7hdTnA&_hsmi=87428664

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  • Tue, May 05, 2020 - 10:03am

    Jim H

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    Posts: 1162

    10+

    Watching the Propaganda/Narrative sausage making right before your eyes

    As I have stated since the beginning of our coverage in the thread called, "Hydroxychloroquine vs The Deep State", for those who are not entirely awake this is your chance to see the machine in action, in real time.  One of the very excellent sources of medical information during this crisis has been MedCram, which is a teaching video production company run in part by pulmonologist Dr. Seheult.

    Here is what Dr. Seheult felt obliged to mention this morning - his earlier videos where he mentions the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine are being taken down by Youtube.  Realize please that this is a DIGITAL BOOK BURNING.  We are fighting against true Nazi tactics here... The Deep State thinks they can create a narrative.. create their own truth.. really, seriously.. this is what is happening.  Please, please wake your friends up to this;

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OudhmwulJHY

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  • Tue, May 05, 2020 - 10:24am

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

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    Posts: 1162

    1+

    Viral humor comment from Chris' latest video on Youtube.

    Bill Craig
    I came here for the cleavage sights.
    LOL

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  • Tue, May 05, 2020 - 10:31am

    Linda T

    Linda T

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    Joined: Jun 09 2014

    Posts: 132

    Re: parallels

    Hladini,

    I clicked on the link you provided, which I liked seeing duckduckgo in it, and got this cranky rude message:

    "

    YouTube Privacy Warning

    YouTube (owned by Google) does not let you watch videos anonymously. As such, watching YouTube videos here will be tracked by YouTube/Google."

    Wow, I'm going to see if I can find it a different way.

    Linda

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  • Tue, May 05, 2020 - 10:39am

    Linda T

    Linda T

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jun 09 2014

    Posts: 132

    found it.../"EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW: Robert Kennedy Jr. Destroys Big Pharma, Fauci & Pro-Vaccine Movement"

    Linda

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  • Tue, May 05, 2020 - 10:46am

    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

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    Joined: Jun 04 2012

    Posts: 429

    1+

    Futher to sand_puppy's excellent post #184...

    Pepe Escobar continues to offer deep insights into the geopolitical side. His latest article delves into religion and racial bias playing leading roles in the historical and ongoing demonization of China and other non-white cultures. It certainly provides more to ponder about the great global strategic chess game.

    Jan

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  • Tue, May 05, 2020 - 10:51am

    vshelford

    vshelford

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    Joined: Jul 13 2014

    Posts: 142

    6+

    re Watching the Propaganda/Narrative sausage making

    Jim or anyone - are there ways to take YouTube videos off for private storage?  One of the reasons I wish Chris' work was in transcript is that it is easier to preserve against just this sort of narrative management action.

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  • Tue, May 05, 2020 - 11:21am

    oclisa

    oclisa

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    Posts: 51197

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    Re: Watching the Propaganda/Narrative sausage making right before your eyes

    I saw that too (the Medcram YT video) and although Dr. Seheult sticks strictly to medical discussions, I was disappointed that he basically forgave YT for taking down the video with the comment that "Youtube has a big job to do in terms of policing the videos..." While he used that comment to push viewing his videos on his proprietary site, where his videos are not censored, I wish he wouldn't have made an excuse for YT taking down the video. After all, he is a critical care specialist and pulmonologist who is presently working in an LA hospital ICU with Covid-19 patients (and takes time out to make these informative videos), yet his uploads discussing "verboten" topics are removed. That is just scary.

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  • Tue, May 05, 2020 - 11:24am

    nancybeck

    nancybeck

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    Posts: 22

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    Is this relevant: Former Harvard Dept Chair Charles Lieber arrested 1/2020: developer of Virus Sized Transistors

    I'm not a scientist, but I'm wondering if this is relevant to the SARSCov2?

    Charles Lieber, a nanotechnology professor and researcher at Harvard was arrested in late January 2020 for secretly being paid by the Chinese government (specifically for work at the Wuhan lab) as well as receiving NIH funding for his work with virus-sized transistors that can enter cells and remain undetected by those cells. Could this be used to insert the novel sequence in question?

    Attached is the 2011 Harvard Magazine article describing his work. There was a 2020 article describing his research, but I cannot find it online now.

     

    https://harvardmagazine.com/2011/01/virus-sized-transistors

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  • Tue, May 05, 2020 - 11:31am

    Linda T

    Linda T

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    Re: Medcram videos

    Jim,

    Wow.. I've watched a lot of his videos and have enjoyed and appreciated each one. The scale and scope of their digital book burnings, social & TV media misinformation stategies is breathtaking.  And scary. I read last week, don't remember what article, but I remember the analogy to this being a 9/11 health event. This time around though "they" don't have, sorta do in China, a convenient target to demonize. (I have 2 of David Ray Griffin's books about 9/11 and in the first one I loved the way chapter by chapter he addressed the so called "evidence" to show it was all a bunch of crap, which people bough hook line and sinker. Sheeple with no brains and common sense, I've always hated that expression, "common" implies everyone should have it. NOT!!) China did the hands on work, but we funded it and most likely did some work here too.

    This means Chris' videos may not last long on YouTube either...

    Linda

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  • Tue, May 05, 2020 - 11:40am

    thc0655

    Status: Platinum Member

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    Posts: 2001

    9+

    Fauci has known about HCQ since 2005

    https://onenewsnow.com/perspectives/bryan-fischer/2020/04/27/fauci-knew-about-hcq-in-2005-nobody-needed-to-die

    Dr. Anthony Fauci, whose “expert” advice to President Trump has resulted in the complete shutdown of the greatest economic engine in world history, has known since 2005 that chloroquine is an effective inhibitor of coronaviruses.

    How did he know this? Because of research done by the National Institutes of Health, of which he is the director. In connection with the SARS outbreak - caused by a coronavirus dubbed SARS- CoV - the NIH researched chloroquine and concluded that it was effective at stopping the SARS coronavirus in its tracks. The COVID-19 bug is likewise a coronavirus, labeled SARS-CoV-2. While not exactly the same virus as SARS-CoV-1, it is genetically related to it, and shares 79% of its genome, as the name SARS-CoV-2 implies. They both use the same host cell receptor, which is what viruses use to gain entry to the cell and infect the victim.

    The Virology Journal - the official publication of Dr. Fauci’s National Institutes of Health - published what is now a blockbuster article on August 22, 2005, under the heading - get ready for this - “Chloroquine is a potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection and spread.” (Emphasis mine throughout.) Write the researchers, “We report...that chloroquine has strong antiviral effects on SARS-CoV infection of primate cells. These inhibitory effects are observed when the cells are treated with the drug either before or after exposure to the virus, suggesting both prophylactic and therapeutic advantage.”

     That means, of course, that Dr. Fauci (pictured at right) has known for 15 years that chloroquine and it’s even milder derivative hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) will not only treat a current case of coronavirus (“therapeutic”) but prevent future cases (“prophylactic”). So HCQ functions as both a cure and a vaccine. In other words, it’s a wonder drug for coronavirus. Said Dr. Fauci’s NIH in 2005, “concentrations of 10 μM completely abolished SARS-CoV infection.” Fauci’s researchers add, “chloroquine can effectively reduce the establishment of infection and spread of SARS-CoV.”

     

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  • Tue, May 05, 2020 - 8:00pm

    wildtravel

    wildtravel

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    Joined: May 29 2013

    Posts: 42

    A BS Detector

    That’s an interesting association you make, Janie-Em.Being raised myself on a diet of C.S Lewis, I must confess I never came across the Velveteen Rabbit.  
    Taking a quick peek, it seems to be a great allegory at many levels for what we’re experiencing in these turbulent times.  The plot-line appears to be almost a counterpoint to my 5 year old child’s experience of renouncing my imaginary friend, teddy. Whereas, in the Velveteen Rabbit it metamorphoses from an imaginary friend into a living being, doesn’t it?
    Merging the two images, as you did, takes me to a passage from my dear Nietzsche, in Zarathustra’s discourse “Of Self Overcoming”:
    “Whatever I create, and however much I love it - soon I have to oppose it and my love:  thus will my will have it,Thus life once taught me: and with this teaching, do I solve the riddle of your hearts, you wisest men.Truly I say unto you: Unchanging good and evil does not exist !  From out of themselves they must overcome themselves again and again.”
    Nietzsche was speaking to the search for meaning and truth (epistemology).  That search remains irreconcilably divided between the followers of Immanuel Kant, who believe truth reveals itself ‘a priori’, and subjectively, from  existing truth (e.g. churches, conspiracy theorists, politicians and other snake oil salesmen), whereas the followers of Oliver Hume believe truth reveals itself ‘a posteriori’, from objective investigation (e.g. scientists, philosophers, the PP community).

    Nevertheless, as followers of this thread will be aware, even amongst we amateur sleuths who seek the truth about this pandemic objectively, underneath every single post on this thread lurks Immanuel Kant and his “Critique of Pure Reason”.   When it comes to objectivity, none of us has clean hands.  So, how do we sift the wheat from the chaff, and the dross from the gold, not just in the truths others try to sell us, but in our own?

    Despair not!  There is a BS detector.  Look for a claim’s philosophy of causation (aetiology).  As I suggested previously, find a logical fallacy and you find Kant.

    By way of example, I see Jim H # 177 (reply to #171) is pleased that you see “The ....machine that you are awakening to Janie.”  And what does Jim believe you see?  Why it is that “corrupt, global elite”.
    Now, my BS detector redlined here.  The most common of all falsehoods, the old Post Hoc Propter Hoc logical fallacy (e.g. The rooster crowed, then the sun rose, therefore the rooster caused the sun to rise): 
    Major premise: Janie says she’s frustrated on the lack of media connecting the pandemic and the “people behind it”,
    Minor premise: The people behind it are a “corrupt, global elite” (drum roll here),
    Conclusion: The corrupt global elite did it just like Janie said!!! (play twilight zone theme here)
    Uh, no Jim, even Blind Freddy can see that by definition, in every human endeavour there are people behind it (post hoc). And no, Jim, Freddy and I can’t see a single shred of evidence for the existence of a corrupt global elite, and least of all in this logic (propter hoc).  So sorry, Jim, as Chris puts it, black eye for you trying to sell us such a logically fallacious conclusion.  Nice try Jim, but no cigar.
    But wait, Jim, don’t you tell us this “elite” wants us to “...create bogeymen when they say so...” ......  ( duh dee duh duh, duh dee duh duh).  Thanks for the heads up Jim, that you are part of this sinister and murky elite.  I believe you.  (Fade out on twilight zone theme)

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  • Tue, May 05, 2020 - 10:25pm

    wildtravel

    wildtravel

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    Joined: May 29 2013

    Posts: 42

    1+

    So Busted

    Hi Linda,

    I see you believe Jim about this “corrupt global elite”, the “Deep State”, “they” as you call them.  I believe Jim too.

    “We are fighting against true Nazi tactics here... The Deep State thinks they can create a narrative.. create their own truth.. really, seriously.”

    Horrifying.  Imagine that, “they” “create their own truth” and want you to “ “...create bogeymen when they say so...”  Mercy me!

    On this basis, I want to thank you both, Linda and Jim for outing yourselves as Deep State operatives.

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  • Tue, May 05, 2020 - 10:36pm

    mememonkey

    Status: Member

    Joined: Nov 01 2009

    Posts: 122

    14+

    A HS detector

     

    Nevertheless, as followers of this thread will be aware, even amongst we amateur sleuths who seek the truth about this pandemic objectively, underneath every single post on this thread lurks Immanuel Kant and his “Critique of Pure Reason”.   When it comes to objectivity, none of us has clean hands.  So, how do we sift the wheat from the chaff, and the dross from the gold, not just in the truths others try to sell us, but in our own?

    Despair not!  There is a BS detector.  Look for a claim’s philosophy of causation (aetiology).  As I suggested previously, find a logical fallacy and you find Kant.

    By way of example, I see Jim H # 177 (reply to #171) is pleased that you see “The ....machine that you are awakening to Janie.”  And what does Jim believe you see?  Why it is that “corrupt, global elite”.
    Now, my BS detector redlined here.  The most common of all falsehoods, the old Post Hoc Propter Hoc logical fallacy (e.g. The rooster crowed, then the sun rose, therefore the rooster caused the sun to rise):
    Major premise: Janie says she’s frustrated on the lack of media connecting the pandemic and the “people behind it”,
    Minor premise: The people behind it are a “corrupt, global elite” (drum roll here),
    Conclusion: The corrupt global elite did it just like Janie said!!! (play twilight zone theme here)
    Uh, no Jim, even Blind Freddy can see that by definition, in every human endeavor there are people behind it (post hoc). And no, Jim, Freddy and I can’t see a single shred of evidence for the existence of a corrupt global elite, and least of all in this logic (propter hoc).  So sorry, Jim, as Chris puts it, black eye for you trying to sell us such a logically fallacious conclusion.  Nice try Jim, but no cigar.
    But wait, Jim, don’t you tell us this “elite” wants us to “...create bogeymen when they say so...” ......  ( duh dee duh duh, duh dee duh duh).  Thanks for the heads up Jim, that you are part of this sinister and murky elite.  I believe you.  (Fade out on twilight zone theme)

    Wildtravel,

    What a load of horseshit!  Or as you might opine, sophistry disguised as erudition.

    I am entirely comfortable with Jimh's characterization of a corrupt global elite as causative here, your undergraduate level Introduction to Philosophy 101 course inspired edification  notwithstanding,  as the press clearly are promulgating  deliberate disinformation regarding the virus, HCQ  etc. on top of a unequivocal history of similarly documented behavior on all manner of agendas.  Such behavior which is apparent to any independent critical thinking individual  with the ability  for pattern recognition  and who has been paying attention.

    It is this 'awakening that Jim was lauding with regards to Jane's post.

    Do you dispute that there exists corrupt global elites in positions of power?  Do you think that our mainstream press is free and unbiased and not owned, operated  and influenced by elite special interests complete with sheep dipped Langley operatives?

    given you post I I suspect that the irony of your heroic device a "BS detector" for cutting through the clutter of epidemiological conundrums we sleuths face in discerning truth and overcoming bias is lost on you.

    mm

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  • Wed, May 06, 2020 - 4:18am

    albacore

    albacore

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    Joined: Jul 20 2014

    Posts: 50

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    Can't we cut the sensationalist crap? (Fauci/HCQ article)

    @thc0655

    Your extensive quote from the Fauci/HCQ article is just sensationalist crap, and anyone who has watched a good proportion of Chris's videos has the tools to know as much.

    A few pointers:

    • The original study was CQ, not HCQ
    • It's about in vitro studies that tell us nothing about what will work in a clinical setting
    • A treatment is not a vaccine

    You are letting your enthusiasm for HCQ overwhelm any sense of scepticism and critical thinking.

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  • Wed, May 06, 2020 - 7:25am

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2075

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    HCQ & Remdesivir

    One man's "sensationalist crap" is another man's dispassionate look at the data.

    I found it interesting that both Remdesivir and HCQ both worked in vitro vs SC2.  From the test tube point of view, both hold relatively equal promise (although RD is more toxic - in the test tube).

    And now we know that Fauci knew about this, from his work and remarks back in 2005.

    Fauci's response to Remdesivir's relatively ho-hum study result (whose end points changed mid-study) was quite enthusiastic.  His response to HCQ was substantially less enthusiastic.  In 2020, that is.

    RD got 50% of patients cleared within 10 days.

    HCQ + Azithromycin got 92% patients virologically cured within 10 days.

    Now, a data-driven person would look at those two outcomes and say, "wow, HCQ sure seems like a better treatment."

    Regardless, not Mr Fauci, who felt that Remdesivir should be the standard of care in the US.

    Did it have to do with the price tag of Remdesivir?  It is substantially higher.  From just looking at the data, there does not seem to be any good explanation for his choice.

    Once you eliminate the impossible (i.e. he didn't know, or he's incredibly stupid - both impossible to assert with Mr Fauci), then whatever remains, however improbable (or "sensationalist"), has to be the truth.

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1477893920302179?via%3Dihub

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  • Wed, May 06, 2020 - 7:37am

    David McKenney

    David McKenney

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    Joined: Mar 25 2020

    Posts: 79

    2+

    HCQ again

    Yes, a 4 year old could see this. Of course they are more honest than most adults. I heard once that human's greatest "accomplishment", if we dare call it that, is the ability to lie. Seems it is very difficult, if done well.

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  • Wed, May 06, 2020 - 8:32am

    Mary59

    Mary59

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    Posts: 45

    13+

    The Fight About CQ/HCQ Proves Wizard of Oz Behind the Scenes

    To me, the big question is why. Why this demonization of HCQ?  There is no other reason for the false demonization of CQ/HCQ.  There is a reason it is being attacked and that reason is not logical or science-based thought. Normally power and money are the root causes of illogical rot.

    The fact that the current administration is behind HCQ also says something. I do not know what it says, but it is not random, I do not believe.

    My husband, adult daughter, ex husband,  and seven other friends have all been on HCQ since 1 March now.  I am 60 and take zero prescription meds because I do not believe in them mostly so for me to be on this drug, and for me to advise this drug to family and friends is because as a risk management professional, one does a simple risk assessment and the risks of taking HCQ ON A WEEKLY BASIS AS A HEALTHY ADULT without contraindications such as liver issues, far outweights the risk of getting COVID.

    Why on Earth would a 70 year old medicine, widely used by many and taken for years by Lupus and Arthritis patients now all of a sudden be noted for causing fatal heart issues.  WELL it has been studied in critical COVID patients taking ALOT of HCQ, at the WRONG TIME, which is NOT the way to use it for COVID.

    This is the same as saying ohhh Aspirin is so so dangerous because when someone in critical condition took 8 aspirins a day, it caused internal bleeding or something and therefore Aspirin is a dangerous drug,  I am NOT saying that the toxicity ratio of ASA is the same as HCQ but let's get the REAL numbers on the toxicity ratio of this drug and compare to other common  and praised MONEY MAKING drugs like ALL the damn statins they put everyone on WHICH now - in some circles of reseach, - have been linked to provoke other health issues, when maybe all someone with high BP needed was only to eat less, eat good foods, lower the booze intake, and move around more? The docs do not even try that, they slap them on these pills, most of which do not even have a ten year experience period, let alone 70 year experience period.  My friends on stats do not even know how they work, they take them trusting the medical system totally.

    So if anyone is considering taking HCQ on a weekly basis to prevent COVID or to limited viral load, then one should think about indeed doing this - especially the front line people.  Check all contraindications as one would with any medicine.  India put their whole front line on it I understand from anther member sharing that info.

    For me, this chloroquin fight is proof something funny is going on, perhaps beyond the normal reptilian and greedy behaviour of big pharma.

    In my mind, the leaders (of this underground plan) did not figure on the power of HCQ and it is messing up their plans.

    To me, afraid and confused is what they want us to be.  Precisely that is what we will NOT be. No, we will not stand in fear and follow something wrong.

    We will continue to stand up and continue to fight -  like diamonds that cut through illusion - because that,  is exactly what it is going to take here.

    Mary Otto-Chang 20 yrs UN staff, BA, MES PhD (Candidate)

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  • Wed, May 06, 2020 - 8:53am

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

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    Posts: 1162

    7+

    Albacore's arguments are weak

    Albacore said,

    The original study was CQ, not HCQ
    It's about in vitro studies that tell us nothing about what will work in a clinical setting

    In vitro studies don't give us a final answer.. but they certainly point the way.  If it works in a petri dish as keeping the virus from infecting cells.. then it's a damn good indicator that something might work in vivo.  In the case of HCQ, which we already know to be quite safe and well tolerated for other maladies, as well as being cheap and readily available AND useful in pill form.. then the in-vitro studies which we have talked about were very promising.

    Since that in-vitro study in Feb., we have seen loads of clinical data testifying to the efficacy of the HCQ-based cocktail, used early in the disease progression.  Nothing you say Albacore can take away from the results seen by Zelenko, Armstrong, Raoult, and others.  Armstrong saved a nursing home from sure devastation in Texas.  You really do doth protest too much in the face of the pattern of efficacy, and simultaneous suppression of this information, at hand.  

    A treatment is not a vaccine

    Does there need to be a vaccine if there is a highly efficacious treatment?  It's my decision if I get a flu vaccine today (I don't) and it will damn well be my decision whether I get this corona-virus vaccine if and when it comes.

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  • Wed, May 06, 2020 - 9:00am

    David McKenney

    David McKenney

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 25 2020

    Posts: 79

    Pull back the curtain

    I can't believe that this can go on much longer. What will it take to pull back the curtain? The virus is mutating. There never will be a vaccine. How about this? Start a war. Can't have all the troops getting sick or social distancing so put them all on what works, HCQ. Must be a better way.

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  • Wed, May 06, 2020 - 9:14am

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1162

    4+

    Many positives for hydroxychloroquine

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8HZ0Li5uRI

    and don't forget this, from MIT PhD Dr. Shiva and his CytoSolve molecular biology AI;

     

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  • Wed, May 06, 2020 - 9:22am

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1162

    4+

    40 patients saved thanks to a cocktail including hydroxychloroquine... a new success story to add to the list!

    Must watch new video news report.  Forty patients with not a single complication.. none have died in this hospital;

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40Z9jVaJDTY

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  • Wed, May 06, 2020 - 9:26am

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 2337

    14+

    The skill of the anti-HCQ narrative

    Thanks for your above post Mary59.   I have decided to start taking HCQ as PREP also. (PRe-Exposure Prophylaxis at 400 mg twice on day 1, then 400 mg weekly there after.)

    Many of my family and friend are firmly in the "I hate Trump" camp and will post on their fb timelines anything that bites at Trump.   And, everything anti-Trump is right.  It is a spiritual battle of good versus evil.

    Angel battling demon

    So the following link was posted on a family members fb page and got LOTS of upvotes from my friends and relatives.

    I reflect on the skill of the opinion shaping.

    Ousted Vaccine Director File Whistleblower Complaint Alleging Coronavirus Warning Were Ignored.

    The article contains two messages:

    1.  Dr Bright told the White House that the nation didn't have nearly enough PPE in January and they ignored him "with indifference that turned into hostility."  History shows that Dr Bright's assessment on PPE was very correct.

    2.  The second non-headline message was that Dr Bright is very frustrated when HHS "tried to make harmful drugs available to fight COVID-19 like HCQ, repeatedly touted by Trump as a cure despite a lack of robust testing."

    "His [Dr Bright's] efforts to prioritize science and safety over political expediency and to expose practices that posed a substantial risk to public health and safety, especially as it applied to chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, rankled those in the Administration who wished to continue to push this false narrative," the complaint reads.

    So I have learned that in the subgroup of friends and relatives that hate Trump, there is nothing that can be said to cause a favorable review of HCQ.

    I just say in as calm and reasonable a voice as I can find:

    "I disagree.  I believe there is some value in HCQ when given early, and in a cocktail with Azithromycin and Zinc.  I can give you a list of resources if you would like to read a different viewpoint."

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  • Wed, May 06, 2020 - 11:48am

    Steven Kelso

    Steven Kelso

    Status: Member

    Joined: Aug 22 2018

    Posts: 19

    Are you familiar with Command Prompt?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A-HLSvtBWc

     

    https://youtube-dl.org/

     

    You can download an entire channel if you want.

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  • Wed, May 06, 2020 - 1:17pm

    wildtravel

    wildtravel

    Status: Member

    Joined: May 29 2013

    Posts: 42

    Infiltration Techniques

    Thank you for your response to my post,  Mememonkey.  I hear you that you take my BS Detector very personally, and am sorry for your loss.

    Thank you also for making my case for me that “faith” means “belief without evidence, in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel” (“The Devils Dictionary”, Ambrose Bierce).
     
    The old Circulus in Probando logical fallacy (circular logic) is another very popular way of drawing wrong conclusions.  Popular with the people who argue this way, that is, because it is not actually an argument at all, but merely asks and answers a self serving rhetorical question.
     
    It is important in this one never to provide any evidence at all which might justify the conclusion the proponent wishes to draw because:
     
    (a) the proponent doesn’t have any,
    (b) that would enable objective scrutiny of the proposition,
    (c) faith requires not wanting to know what is true
     
    "The method of 'postulating' what we want has many advantages; they are the same as the advantages of theft over honest toil".  
    Bertrand Russell
     
    Major premise: “They” are conducting a disinformation campaign, because I say so,
    Minor premise:  It’s obvious,
    Conclusion:  “They” are conducting a disinformation campaign.
     
    I’m afraid it’s back to the Deep State Training College for you, mememonkey, Linda and Jim, for a refresher course on infiltration techniques.  You’re never going to pull it off that you’re being objective about this if you make it so obvious you think it’s all about you.
     
    Evidence, please.  Evidence.

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  • Wed, May 06, 2020 - 1:53pm

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1162

    11+

    Thank you Wildtravel!!!

    Your (renewed) existence here and current posts are strong evidence that we are over the target.  As I have been telling folks here, the observation of the very unscientific jihad against hydroxychloroquine is evidence, in and of itself, of the hidden forces that control our mainstream media and so many other entities, at work.

    The folks here are truth seekers.  You are trying to be a distraction to this endeavor, but you are mainly just giving us a good, hearty laugh as we go about our business.  Meme and I go back many years.. this tribe is much thicker than you can imagine in your trollish, though well-spoken brain.

    Now let's return to our search for what is true.  I for one will not feed your desire for response any more than this.

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  • Wed, May 06, 2020 - 2:53pm

    Linda T

    Linda T

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    Joined: Jun 09 2014

    Posts: 132

    4+

    Re: wildtravel's B.S.

    Thank you, Jim and mememonkey for replying to wildtravel. I just happened upon his comment claiming we are Deep State operatives. What a frickin' joke, and I agree, as you said mememonkey the irony of his claiming his B.S. detector redlined, while we contain to sleuth away and call him on his B.S... As you said Jim, I think we are hitting close to home.

    I use "they" because there are soooo many individuals that are a part of the Deep State, that camp of corrupt individuals who are up to no good, and have the assistance of the mainstream media, various tech companies (for example YouTube taking down videos), various politicians, etc.

    Linda

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  • Wed, May 06, 2020 - 3:23pm

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1019

    2+

    Linda you care too much to be an operative!

    Thank you, Jim and mememonkey for replying to wildtravel. I just happened upon his comment claiming we are Deep State operatives

    As a simple Granny I know bullshit.  Then there is high-fluetin, shiny, polished bullshit.  Quoting a lot of fine scholarly sources and talking in riddles.  Funny, its still bullshit.

    Makes me chuckle though.

    AKGrannyWGrit

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  • Wed, May 06, 2020 - 3:41pm

    AKTED

    AKTED

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    Posts: 16

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    Journalsits have to keep asking the right question. What can be salvaged from this

    Thanks Chris,

    You clearly lay out the reasons and sources for why this was lab-created. Journalists have to keep asking the question of how this really unusual insert occurred? It seems unlikely to have occurred naturally. There is ample evidence and reporting that can be cited that some of the doctors and virologists were involved in the exact type of research that could have produced an accident resulting in COVID-19.

    That now is in the past. The second question is what can be salvaged from this? What can be learned and used to combat the virus. Unfortunately just when we need this sort of honesty and transparency from those who were involved in the research we are unlikely to get it because it would reveal their part in this mess.

    All the best, Ted

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  • Wed, May 06, 2020 - 4:50pm

    Linda T

    Linda T

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    Posts: 132

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    Re: being called an operative

    Granny,

    Thank you so much, I got a good chuckle reading your comment. I felt insulted when I first read it, and I know my massage clients during my 20+ years practice would have also been incensed to hear someone call me a Deep State operative. Several of them cried when I left CA.

    Linda

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  • Wed, May 06, 2020 - 5:33pm

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1162

    3+

    Aha, So Linda T is an operative!

    A deep tissue operative.  

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  • Wed, May 06, 2020 - 5:46pm

    Chris Martenson

    Chris Martenson

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    Joined: Jun 07 2007

    Posts: 5150

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    Re: Plandemic Movie

    Just a few quick thoughts.

    I found the beginning with Dr Mikovits pretty compelling.

    However, they really lost me by bringing in the Bakersfield knuckleheads.  Especially when they spouted their unique theory of immunology which has people suddenly becoming immunologically naieve over a couple of months.  You know, because they aren't out getting re-challenged every day by pumping into other diseased folks.

    Yeah, no.  That's not how it works.

    If it were, then they could simply dig up all this amazing data showing how round-the-world sailors and people otherwise isolated for long stretches became sick when coming back into society's fold.

    It's not a thing.  It doesn't work that way.  Of course, the tetanus boosters every ten years, or the once-in-a-lifetime measles vaccine ought to have steered these fine gentlemen into some concerns over their theory's validity.

    Or maybe they should have stayed awake during those classes.

    As I said - I wouldn't want them as doctors.

    But allowing such claims to be part of a documentary undermines it pretty badly.

    Here's my rule for pushing the boundaries of 'acceptable thinking'; you can't make silly mistakes when doing so.  It gives your detractors both ammunition and an easy out.

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  • Wed, May 06, 2020 - 6:24pm

    Linda T

    Linda T

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    Joined: Jun 09 2014

    Posts: 132

    aw shucks...

    Jim H,

    Thanks for the really good chuckle! Deep Tissue was my forte, I really enjoyed watching people transform, completely different person, from before to after, was inspiring to me.

    Linda

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  • Wed, May 06, 2020 - 9:20pm

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1019

    3+

    Chris I See The Topic Differently

    I have heard the statistic that children who live in a house with cats and dogs have less asthma.  There is also evidence that fresh air, exercise, sunshine, a change of scenery and a psychological boost are all immune boosting.  Sterile, small, confined environments are not as healthy as freedom, movement and joy.

    Some apartments are tiny, some houses face north and have little light.  Some residences are noisy, some have irritating neighbors. Some people hate the other people they live with.  Many people are demoralized, depressed, frightened and miserable.  For some, being trapped at home is not only life threatening, it can be very unhealthy.

    If it were, then they could simply dig up all this amazing data showing how round-the-world sailors and people otherwise isolated for long stretches became sick when coming back into society's fold.

    They can.  But thats not my forte.   It’s called PTSD, trauma, stress and I have no doubt they all affect the immune system.  How come no one has done detailed psychological studies on released convicts?  PTSD and trauma due to domestic violence.  Depression.  Extensive incarceration. Maybe there is the data but it’s not readily available to me.  I  suspect there IS evidence that supports being trapped in any enclosure versus being able to move freely and experience the out-of doors, the later being more healthy.

    Lets look at it this way. I would suggest being trapped at home, say a smallish apartment with 2 kids under 5 for a month or more is stressful.  On top of that throw in lack of savings, no job, threats from authorities.  No parks, no movies, no beach, no soccer, no swimming, no classes, no birthday parties, Stay the F. home!  No walks, no parks, No nothin!  I wonder what the stress is doing to their immune system?

    You know, because they aren't out getting re-challenged every day by pumping into other diseased folks.

    Thats the thought of those who are implementing, monitoring and punishing those who break the lockdown.  Surfing in the ocean, walking in a park or going to a playground doesn't necessarily mean infecting someone and it can definitely be immune boosting.  Fresh air and sunshine, very immune boosting.

    Many people are currently trapped in their unhealthy homes.  It is a different experience than living on 180 acres and having freedom.  I suggest miserable and in prison (oh sorry - on lockdown) equals unhealthy just as Dr. Mikovits was suggesting.  I found her to be credible and caring.

    AKGrannyWGrit

    PS, Be nice to Granny!

     

     

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  • Wed, May 06, 2020 - 11:46pm

    wildtravel

    wildtravel

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    Posts: 42

    1+

    Conspiracy Theories

    No need for thanks!  I’m glad you’re having fun with this, Jim and others.  I’m sorry y’all missed my point that the conclusion drawn from a logical fallacy is false by definition.

    Major Premise:  There is a controversy over hydroxychloroquine,
    Minor premise:  The controversy is a “very unscientific jihad against hydroxychloroquine...” 
    Conclusion:  This “... is evidence, in and of itself, of the hidden forces that control our mainstream media and so many other entities, at work.”

    Uh, no actually.  Would you have us believe that a controversy between scientists is “unscientific”?  Apparently so.  And would you have us believe that all the scientists who disagree with you are all muslims on a “jihad”?  “Nazis”?  “Book burners”?  Oh please!
    And actually Jim, no, your personal opinions are not evidence, and do not establish any form of causal link whatsoever (save in your own mind) between there being a controversy and your conclusion this is all the work of some unspecified dark and sinister “hidden forces”.  (play twilight zone theme here)
    Post Hoc Propter Hoc again, and a false conclusion, by definition.  I hope that helps. Oh, and for you and your friends who took umbrage at being described as Deep State operatives.  Jim tells me Deep State operatives may be identified as people who invite us to “...create bogeymen when they say so...”.  

     
    I mean that is what conspiracy theorists do isn’t it?  That is what you do on this site, isn’t it, Jim?  No need to get precious about who you’re working for, or what your agenda is.Same as I asked your mate meme, Jim.  Evidence please, not personal opinions? And please assure me you do understand that in the real world false actually means false, and doesn’t mean true because I say so?
     
    So, unless there is anything else you’d like to discuss, I’ll let y’all get back under your tin foil hats and cook up whom you wish to demonise next, and wish you a good day.

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  • Thu, May 07, 2020 - 3:32am

    albacore

    albacore

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    Joined: Jul 20 2014

    Posts: 50

    1+

    You have lost your critical faculties..

    Jim, Dave, thc ..if you really believe that the Bryan Fischer article is a "dispassionate look at the data".

    I previously identified a few logical and evidential issues with the article. You have not addressed them - other than describing them as weak - rather you have continued the same pro-HCQ arguments that we have heard so much already. You are at liberty to promote HCQ and bash Fauci, but I was hoping this forum would manage such discussions with certain standards of evidence and logic.

    The Bryan Fischer article is a mess.

    1. It extrapolates from a paper discussing a different drug and a different disease

    2. It makes a huge leap from an in vitro study to: "So HCQ functions as both a cure and a vaccine. In other words, it’s a wonder drug for coronavirus."

    3. It talks about HCQ as a vaccine - it was Bryan Fischer that brought that up, not me, Jim!

    4. It - and you - ignores the fact that MANY molecules will be found that impact a specific virus in vitro. For instance, look at this: https://theconversation.com/we-found-and-tested-47-old-drugs-that-might-treat-the-coronavirus-results-show-promising-leads-and-a-whole-new-way-to-fight-covid-19-136789 Whether any of these work clinically is a totally different matter - worth researching, yes, but not declared as cures from the test tube.

    5. He makes the claim that Dr Raoult used zinc for his study, providing us with a link that says no such thing. (As far as I know, nobody here has been able to stand up that idea either.)

    His article is rhetoric, founded on poor logic and evidence. He may be right that HCQ is a wonder drug, and that Fauci is a shit, but this article doesn't demonstrate it.

    He is preaching to the choir - are you happy to be in that choir?

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  • Thu, May 07, 2020 - 7:06am

    Snydeman

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2013

    Posts: 612

    7+

    Big Leagues!

    I mean that is what conspiracy theorists do isn’t it?
    If what you mean is that conspiracy theorists look at things from different points of view, do not accept "official narrative" as dogma without question, and are open to refining their views as evidence shifts, yes. Yes, that's what conspiracy theorists do. Oh, and as with many theories, sometimes they are actually true. Sometimes not.
    That is what you do on this site, isn’t it, Jim?
    Ah yes. The Logic 101 instructor resorting to a convenient and simplistic label for what is a very, very diverse community with equally diverse views. Well done, sir. I don't know all the fancy Latin wording to describe your tactic, but I recognize dissonance when I see it: your critique of others hides within it your own failings, projected outwards onto them. Clearly you want to believe this site is full of nuts, tin-foil hatters (well done using a trite label there. Really strengthens your argument), and logic-lacking nincompoops, so, obviously, we are. What's that you said about drawing illogical conclusions based on false premises? I can't remember, but I'm sure you'll remind us next class period.
    No need to get precious about who you’re working for, or what your agenda is.Same as I asked your mate meme, Jim.  Evidence please, not personal opinions?
    Evidence is the one thing we all hold highest here. You back up your views with data and evidence others can check and verify, or you STFU. I've been roasted more than once - deservedly - for presenting an argument with nothing to back it up, and I've been lauded even by people who disagree with me when I "came bearing evidence" to back up my mouth. We don't always agree (in fact we often don't, as a whole community), but if you think this website is filled with people (especially the veterans) who don't bring facts and data to defend their arguments, you've either not spent enough time reading the forums or you are willfully choosing to remain ignorant. If the latter, probably because it supports your internal world-view and predetermined views of sites like this one, but if it's the former, you'd be better served spending some time reading more deeply. That's not to say people here are always inherently correct, but the core members of this community are always willing to challenge one another and themselves, and redraw their conclusions when someone else brings solid evidence that suggests such a redrawing is necessary or logical. Can you say the same of yourself?
    And please assure me you do understand that in the real world false actually means false, and doesn’t mean true because I say so?
    So, unless there is anything else you’d like to discuss, I’ll let y’all get back under your tin foil hats and cook up whom you wish to demonise next, and wish you a good day
    By all means, do what you feel is right, especially if doing so allows you to maintain your current mental paradigm about the universe. Please don't let the door hit you on your way out, and mind the dog poop on the lawn.
    Or, stay and bring evidence to your counter-arguments rather than a freshman-level attempt to use Philosophy 101, fancy Latin, and ad hominem to do the heavy lifting for you.
    I have my suspicions - based solely on anecdotal evidence and experience, and not at all scientific data - as to which of these two paths you will choose.
    P.S.- Guys and gals, we've arrived at the big leagues! We're drawing fancy-talking trolls now! Woot!

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  • Thu, May 07, 2020 - 3:13pm

    wildtravel

    wildtravel

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    Joined: May 29 2013

    Posts: 42

    Meaning and Truth

    Thank you Snydeman for your post #243 on the search for meaning and truth (fancy Latin name - epistemology).  Welcome to the “Big League!”

     
    I note your comments are directed towards some unspecified “you”, but since you quote me correctly, I am pleased to reply on you’s behalf.  And since those quotes are from a reply to Jim H which I liked (# 241 “Conspiracy Theories”) , thank you so much for denying readers of your post any opportunity to read the full text of mine.  Cute.
     
    Please forgive the pun, but I note you make “derogatory or mocking” comments “in an indirect way”, as the Oxford dictionary defines “snide” comments.  I enjoy that literary device as well, it injects a bit of levity to things IMO.  There is an exquisite irony in your alias.  You are very funny.
     
    Now as a noun, Snydeman, the Oxford defines a “snide” man as “devious and underhand”.  I have no reason to believe you are such a man, Snydeman, even though your post clearly proves you behave that way.  I give everybody three strikes before I declare them out, Snydeman, and this stunt is only strike one for you.  I will, however, take the implied warning and watch my back.
     
    I swear to you, Snydeman, since I threw down the gauntlet to Kant’s disciples, they’ve been dropping out the trees on this thread like flies.  And all united in the conviction that Peak Prosperity should abandon evidence and become a faith based community.
     
    I’ll run my BS detector over your post and see if, like all Kant’s disciples, you trade in logical fallacies too, and get back to you.

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  • Thu, May 07, 2020 - 4:08pm

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 792

    NEJM Observational Study on Hydroxychloroquine

    Not sure if this link has been posted. Lots of data for Chris.

    Observational Study of Hydroxychloroquine in Hospitalized Patients with Covid-19

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  • Thu, May 07, 2020 - 4:18pm

    Quercus bicolor

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Mar 19 2008

    Posts: 340

    7+

    more civility please.

    Looking back at the recent posts imho, those involved in the back-and-forth with wildtravel on one side and a bunch of old timers on the other, have gone a bit down the path of lobbing dung at each other and a bit off the path of civil, respectful conversation backed by data.

    I suggest we all look back at our posts and ask the question "Would people reading this be inclined to label me a pompous know-it-all full of hubris who is convinced he/she is "right"."   I know I haven't been involved, but I just almost hit the "post comment" button on another wad of manure and then stopped myself.  So I'll be the first to admit guilt.

    To help us get back on track, it might be useful to answer these questions:

    1. What are your thoughts on whether our honey badger friend originate (intentionally or not) in a lab?  What data push you one way or the other in your opinion?  If it did originate in a lab, would you be willing to speculate on whether or not the release was intentional?  Why or why not?
    2. Based on the evidence what do you think of the effectiveness hydroxychloroquine as an early-stage treatment?  What about remdesivir?  What evidence do you have to support your view?
    3. Is there an active attempt on the part of the media, politicians and other powerful players to promote remdesivir over HQC?  If so, do the data justify their attempt?

    I think sand_puppy and Jim H and perhaps a few others have taken clear stands on these questions and presented lots of data.  wildtravel, I'm not quite sure where you stand, so I'd love it if you could reply in a direct  and clear way.

    Here's my attempt at answering the questions:

    1. Chris in several recent videos has presented lots of data that in my opinion shows that the virus is more likely than not to have evolved in a lab.  I would lean towards accidental release, but that is speculation.  There is no clear data pointing one way or another right now.
    2. Jim H, Chris, sandpuppy and others have shown many studies that suggest high efficacy in early stage treatment, although the larger double-blind placebo controlled studies are still in progress.  So far, remdesivir shows lackluster performance in the U.S. trial and some evidence of at least mild to moderate efficacy in early stage disease in the Chinese trial.  So it looks less promising at this point. It's high cost and need to be delivered by infusion puts it at a serious disadvantage relative to HCQ for early stage treatment and prophylaxis.
    3. Clearly yes.  The data so far shows HCQ is more promising, but the media message is strongly the opposite of that.

     

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  • Thu, May 07, 2020 - 4:23pm

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1162

    4+

    Thanks DTrammel.. just another study that shows HCQ doesn't work when given too late

    Sadly.  

    I just heard today, in the attached video starting at marker 11:20, that efforts to promote or publish studies to show the efficacy of HCQ are being suppressed along the way by various approval boards... so this effort to suppress is multi-faceted and coordinated, all the way up and down, from mass media to the medical/governmental interfaces.  This is what we get for letting the deep state build their system for the last 60 years. 

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTc02hrY49E

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  • Thu, May 07, 2020 - 4:29pm

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1162

    2+

    Quercus.. old friend

    There is no good in civility toward trolls.  We are in an information war and you are not seeing clearly what is happening here.  You are literally feeding the troll by trying to be a healer.. there is nothing to heal.. you have been deceived.  Up to you if you refrain or not.  I recall your work with PTSD if I am not mistaken?        

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  • Thu, May 07, 2020 - 4:38pm

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 792

    Too late Jim?

    Of the remaining 1376 patients, during a median follow-up of 22.5 days, 811 (58.9%) received hydroxychloroquine (600 mg twice on day 1, then 400 mg daily for a median of 5 days); 45.8% of the patients were treated within 24 hours after presentation to the emergency department, and 85.9% within 48 hours.

    Reading papers isn't my specialty but I thought the point we are arguing is to give it early. 24 and 48 hours from presenting symptoms seems early. Did I misunderstand the paper? BTW I have no opinion for or against this drug.

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  • Thu, May 07, 2020 - 5:07pm

    Credenda

    Credenda

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    Credenda said:

    Actually, presentation to ED is usually 5 to 8 days out from initial symptom onset, so 24-48 hours after that does qualify as late intervention. Simply another study meticulously designed to fail.

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  • Thu, May 07, 2020 - 5:12pm

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1162

    4+

    Hello DTrammel

    There are simply mounds of clinical evidence that line up into a clear, dot-connecting, recognizable pattern - that being that HQC, especially when paired with Zithromycin and Zinc, will dramatically benefit someone suffering from Covid-19 if given reasonably early in the disease course.  The thing you are mistaking in reading this paper is to mix up time after presentation to the emergency room with time after initiation of symptoms.  These are two different things.. and could easily equate to a 7 day difference.  Most people don't go the emergency room until they are having serious trouble breathing or oxygenating... if you look at what Dr. Zelenko did to get such excellent results, he treated any high risk patient (> 60, being treated for hypertension, etc) right away once they started to show flu-like symptoms.  This is what works.    

    edit: What Credenta said : )

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  • Thu, May 07, 2020 - 5:53pm

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 2337

    9+

    HCQ given too late, Sicker patients.

    I saw the same as Jim H and Credenda with the Observational Study in NEJM

    So these were super big and busy downtown quaternary care medical centers--not the kinds of places you wander into for a little hangnail, sprained ankle or a mild bronchitis.  Patient presenting at New York Presbyterian are sick and a basic visit takes 6-12 hours.

    Remember the stages of COVID illness:  1)  viral replication where you feel "like you are coming down with the flu", tired, achy, a low grade fever.  Typically 5-7 days.  2) Stage 2 the inflammatory and clotting aspects begin to appear. Shortness of breath starts here. Oxygen level falls, the CT scan shows bilateral ground glass opacities (fluid in the alveoli) and clots in the pulmonary microvasculature.  2nd week.  3)  Stage 3:  The cytokine storm and clotting complications predominate.  Heart failure, clots in arteries, clots in lungs and kidneys, etc.

    So the patients in this study were sick enough to admit to a quaternary care medical center requiring lots of oxygen:  Mid to Late Stage 2.

    The treatment decision was NOT RANDOMIZED.  Each treating doctor individually decided whether to give HCQ / Azith / or other antibiotics.  And the group getting HCQ were clearly sicker.  Table 1:  More obese (BMI >30 and BMI>40), way more hypertesion, more on steroids before admission, several inflammatory markers higher, and significantly more hypoxic.

    Hypoxia can be approximated by the Oxygen Saturation sensor on a finger tip.  (HCQ group was 94% compared to 96% in the no-HCQ group.)   But the real tell is the PaO2:FIO2 ratio.  This ratio tells us how much supplemental oxygen was needed.  

    For example:  If one person has an Oxygen Saturation of 94% on room air (room air has 21% oxygen) that is very different from an Oxygen Saturation of 94% on a high flow mask that delivers 50% Oxygen (FIO2=50%).  So this ratio lets you know how much inspired oxygen the patients requires to get to their measured Oxygen Saturation.  And the HCQ group was clearly worse than the no-HCQ group.  They were sicker.

    Doc thinks:  "This guy looks like crap, I'll throw everything at him." So the sickest get placed into the HCQ group.  Then they do poorly and they say:  "HCQ doesn't help."

     

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  • Thu, May 07, 2020 - 5:57pm

    MountainBlues

    MountainBlues

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    Joined: Oct 09 2011

    Posts: 21

    3+

    MountainBlues said:

    24-48 hours of admission to the ED.
    How sick would YOU have to be to succumb to going to an NYC ED during this pandemic.
    I would have to be mostly dead. And then I would still go to Miracle Max first.
    https://youtu.be/xbE8E1ez97M

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  • Thu, May 07, 2020 - 6:30pm

    Janie-em

    Janie-em

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 05 2020

    Posts: 38

    1+

    I believe it is extremely relevant, thank you for noting it.

    It's why I brought up his name earlier in this thread, and I see another poster has as well. I don't know enough about his work to tie it to Gain of Function research in virology, but boy it sure sounds like it is. It sounds like a significant leap forward in being about to genetically modify cells in labs.

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  • Thu, May 07, 2020 - 6:54pm

    Janie-em

    Janie-em

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 05 2020

    Posts: 38

    2+

    Mots - on leaving formal research work because money trumps truthfulness

    Thank you for sharing your experience. Wow, it's so sad, what was once a great tradition of innovation and creativity is now just a field of political hacks. Yes, it disgusts me.

    I couldn't stomach the reply from my boss(about continuing futile research in order to keep the money flowing) as I knew it must be a top down policy from the lab's research director, a Nobel laureate. I was pissed, because I was doing the computer molecular modeling for these chemists. I understood on a three dimensional level, that the molecules wouldn't fit, like trying to shoehorn a square peg in a round hole. I knew it would be lots of hours of boring, repetitive computer modeling, staring at a screen that would never change and never advance. My time was wasted, all for a paycheck and the privilege to swap jokes and logic puzzles with these very prestigious researchers over lunch every day. It's helpful to hear from your experience that I made the right decision, as it seems things have only gotten worse. How sad. I do miss working with very smart people.

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  • Thu, May 07, 2020 - 7:12pm

    Aussie Ad

    Aussie Ad

    Status: Member

    Joined: May 05 2020

    Posts: 1

    1+

    Computation vs Experimental Design.

    The argument that it 'could not have come from a lab because we couldn't have modelled the result' does not sit well. In the field of engineering we have a substantial number of very advanced tools to compute outcomes however some of the most intransient problems and previously unsolved technical issues can only be dealt with in a methodical and somewhat randomised experimental design process. I expect these methods also would be applicable and effective in the field of microbiology and probably utilised in medical research. For interest review "Experimental Design" or specifically  "Taguchi Methods"

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  • Thu, May 07, 2020 - 7:37pm

    Angi

    Angi

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    Joined: Apr 10 2020

    Posts: 59

    3+

    Laughter is the Best Medicine! Trite but true.

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  • Thu, May 07, 2020 - 7:43pm

    Snydeman

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2013

    Posts: 612

    6+

    Wildtravel and Quercus

    Thank you Snydeman for your post #243 on the search for meaning and truth (fancy Latin name - epistemology).  Welcome to the “Big League!”

    Wait, my post was about epistemology? You sure you read the right post?
    I note your comments are directed towards some unspecified “you”, but since you quote me correctly, I am pleased to reply on you’s behalf.  And since those quotes are from a reply to Jim H which I liked (# 241 “Conspiracy Theories”) , thank you so much for denying readers of your post any opportunity to read the full text of mine.  Cute.
    I'll take cute, but really it was just sloppy. I didn't hit the correct "reply" button to indicate who I was replying to, but I'm happy to note that you were up to the task of figuring it out, since I only quoted your words within my post. Proof positive that your intellect matches your diction!
    Please forgive the pun, but I note you make “derogatory or mocking” comments “in an indirect way”, as the Oxford dictionary defines “snide” comments.  I enjoy that literary device as well, it injects a bit of levity to things IMO.  There is an exquisite irony in your alias.  You are very funny.
    You missed the other exquisite irony in my post which I thought quite clever, but I'll take the compliment on being funny. Do I have to post the mirror picture again, or should I just point out that the whole "indirect way" method is one I saw you using in a few of your posts. Takes one to know one, maybe?
    Now as a noun, Snydeman, the Oxford defines a “snide” man as “devious and underhand”.  I have no reason to believe you are such a man, Snydeman, even though your post clearly proves you behave that way.  I give everybody three strikes before I declare them out, Snydeman, and this stunt is only strike one for you.  I will, however, take the implied warning and watch my back.
    Oh, I'll be upfront and say please just count three strikes now and declare me out. There are a few reasons why:
    1) I don't consider you any kind of "authority" whose opinion about me I need to care about. So, how many "strikes" you adjudicate to me, or whether you call me "out" holds about as much weight with me as listening to Dr. Phil wax poetic about epidemiology. None.
    2) You took what I said and twisted it. I stated no "warning" to you implying you needed to "watch your back." I basically said you need to drop the pedantic nonsense and support your perspective with data and evidence rather than linguistic circumlocution and condescending statements about "logic" and "philosophy." If you want to prove people wrong, show them the data. The science. The facts. Saying, in a very indirect way I might add, that they lack logic just because you don't agree with them is not going to fly with the crowd here for very long. Circling back to the first part of this point, I have learned to immediately discount those who twist others' words rather than directly discuss or debate their actual ones, since it most often indicates they have nothing concrete and evidence-based to counter with.
    I swear to you, Snydeman, since I threw down the gauntlet to Kant’s disciples, they’ve been dropping out the trees on this thread like flies.  And all united in the conviction that Peak Prosperity should abandon evidence and become a faith based community.
    I don't even know what the fuck you are trying to say here. I mean, you talk a lot and use lots of great words and even reference Immanuel Kant, so I suppose I should be impressed...but those two sentences are a whole lot of nothing in the end. PP has always been an evidence-based site, and I've seen Chris, Adam, and many other PPers show a willingness to change their views with new evidence or new ways to interpret existing evidence. But name-dropping an 18th century German philosopher doesn't constitute evidence, even if it is kinda funny to read.
    I’ll run my BS detector over your post and see if, like all Kant’s disciples, you trade in logical fallacies too, and get back to you.
    Oh my. I suppose I shall be very upset if your BS detector flashes red, what with your opinion carrying so much gravitas around here and all. Are you going to call my mom if I get snarky again?
    Onwards to more relevant posts, namely Quercus's:

    To help us get back on track, it might be useful to answer these questions:

    Your point is valid, of course, and I don't know why I take on the task of taking trolls to task (that's a mouthful), but I'm sorry...some of the people he's calling illogical are people who've long established their credentials as solid thinkers and presenters of evidence-based arguments - and some of them I don't even agree with all the time! I think trolls calling out people for the very thing they are doing themselves is what irks me. Then again, I used snark to combat snark, so I admit I was being a bit hypocritical on some level. My apologies if my remarks denigrated the overall quality of the thread.

     

    What are your thoughts on whether our honey badger friend originate (intentionally or not) in a lab? What data push you one way or the other in your opinion? If it did originate in a lab, would you be willing to speculate on whether or not the release was intentional? Why or why not?

    Well, first off none of this is my area of expertise, but I was very doubtful of the "lab origin" theory up until about a week ago. Now I'm not so certain. Chris's podcasts and evidence I'm seeing pop up elsewhere has at least gotten me to be willing to open up to all the possible explanations. I've also learned so much science I think I'll need to watch some of these podcasts a few times just to grasp the basics. As for speculation, I won't. I'm just going to read a lot from multiple experts. I will readily admit my resistance to the lab-based-origin hypothesis is partly grounded in my emotional desire for that not to be true...so I recognize I'm not thinking about it as objectively as I need to. But I'm listening, at least, even if my heart wants to believe we humans can't possibly be that evil or stupid.

    Based on the evidence what do you think of the effectiveness hydroxychloroquine as an early-stage treatment? What about remdesivir? What evidence do you have to support your view?

    I'm only basing my opinions on what I'm reading and hearing. Remdesivir, according to a friend who works for the CDC, is effective, but the claims its a "miracle cure" or any somesuch drives him nuts. It helps ease the duration and severity in some cases, but not when administered too late in the disease progression. He had no opinion on HQC, but that's because he's not one of the people working on anything related to it. As for me, again...I stand here among giants and brains far more qualified than mine. I'm carefully watching and listening, though, but this is why I haven't been posting as much lately. Well, that, and all the work I'm putting into growing a garden.

    Is there an active attempt on the part of the media, politicians and other powerful players to promote remdesivir over HQC? If so, do the data justify their attempt?

    On this one, I can weigh in. History shows very clearly that if there are multiple options, solutions or paths, but one of those paths can bring profit to the elite or wealthy while the others can not, the former will be chosen while the latter will not - I could list out a few examples from the past, but this post is already long enough. There's far fewer examples in history of the powerful, wealthy, or elite choosing what's the best for the commoners over what's best for the elite, so yeah...I think there's ample anecdotal evidence to suggest one is being hoisted on us far more than the other, despite neither being scientifically bullet-proof miracle solutions, much less being even adequately tested. At the very least someone should be asking why the rush to annoint remdesivir king over HQC?

     

    I think sand_puppy and Jim H and perhaps a few others have taken clear stands on these questions and presented lots of data. wildtravel, I'm not quite sure where you stand, so I'd love it if you could reply in a direct and clear way.

     

    And this would be my point. In these woods, ya gotta bring a loaded gun to a gunfight; evidence and data to back up clear assertions. Sand_puppy, Jim and others do that. This new "wildtravel" person talks all fancy and makes grandiose claims but, in the end, reminds me of a balloon releasing air and not much else.

    Sorry. I regressed again. I'm gonna go back into time-out now.

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  • Thu, May 07, 2020 - 8:31pm

    Linda T

    Linda T

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    Joined: Jun 09 2014

    Posts: 132

    3+

    Re: Wildtravel and Quercus

    Snydeman,

    I wish I could give you 2 thumbs up, that was awesome! And, I agree, intellectually the virus got out by either accident or intentional. Emotionally, that is overwhelming to try to process that, the degree of stupidity or arrogance is mind-boggling and heart-boggling (just made that up).

    I certainly wanted to be as snarky with wildtravel as he has been with us. “Picturing a balloon releasing air and not much else” gave me with a good dose of medicine, after all “laughter is the best medicine”. So, thank you..

    Linda

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  • Thu, May 07, 2020 - 9:26pm

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1162

    5+

    So well said Snydeman

    And this would be my point. In these woods, ya gotta bring a loaded gun to a gunfight; evidence and data to back up clear assertions. Sand_puppy, Jim and others do that. This new "wildtravel" person talks all fancy and makes grandiose claims but, in the end, reminds me of a balloon releasing air and not much else.

     

    Poetic.  

     

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  • Fri, May 08, 2020 - 12:42pm

    Snydeman

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2013

    Posts: 612

    2+

    Heart-boggling

    Linda,

    Thanks! If I'm going to spar with trolls, I prefer to keep it light and humorous, if even just for my own sanity.

    Emotionally, that is overwhelming to try to process that, the degree of stupidity or arrogance is mind-boggling and heart-boggling (just made that up).

    I'm not sure if "mind-boggling" is even a word, so why can't "heart-boggling" be? In any case, I may add that to my verbiage in the future, so thanks for the term!

     

    And, yes, the stupidity and arrogance inherent in fiddling with nature in this way is just...I can't come up with the right words. Pride cometh before the fall, I suppose, and we're seeing that now. If this was created by us in a lab, we earned what we're getting. Not us as individuals, but us as a species.

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  • Fri, May 08, 2020 - 5:44pm

    wildtravel

    wildtravel

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    Joined: May 29 2013

    Posts: 42

    1+

    Infection

    Thank you for your invitation to comment Qercus_Bicolor, and hope the following will clarify my position:

    An infection of the PP community with evidence’s enemy, faith, is currently contained.  It should be remembered, however, that the price of freedom remains eternal vigilance.  
    Faith remains an incurable illness, which is highly transmissible and virulent, and the very best we can do is manage its outcomes.  
    Faith, like a Honey Badger, is proving its rat cunning and shape shifting qualities make it impossible to ever completely contain and control.
    Be alert, but not alarmed.
    Fortunately, as per world’s best practice, containment measures went early and went hard.  The cluster of suffering individuals was identified, tracked, traced and provided with a Bullshit Detector to diagnose their sickness.  
    Most asymptomatic cases refused the Detector and denied they were ill and a threat to the community, in their hubris that their faith rendered them immune from reality.  
    We are sorry for their losses.  We are pissed off about ours.  We will learn to forgive what they do to us all here, and remain stalwart never to forgive what they do to themselves.
    Field trials have proven the Bullshit Detector invaluable in early detection of the symptoms of faith, arguments by logical fallacy.  It is recommended to self test regularly and apply the Bullshit Detector vigorously, both in public and in private, to protect the health of the PP community.
    Remember, “I protect you. You protect me.”
    Anybody who doesn’t get that is in the wrong place.

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  • Fri, May 08, 2020 - 7:45pm

    wildtravel

    wildtravel

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    Joined: May 29 2013

    Posts: 42

    Evidence

    I apologise, Snydeman, for assuming you understood that Epistomolgy and Aetiology are Applied Sciences.  You bet, arguing by logical fallacies is incontrovertible evidence that a person is talking BS, whatever self deception they might have about the profundity of their case.  Which part of just plain wrong do you not understand?

    Rather than play Pot Kettle Black with you, I’ll pick up your Wild West theme, to observe you have learned (or not)three important management principles:

    1.  Never send a boy to do a man’s job,

    2.  Never take a knife to a gunfight,

    3.  Sometimes you need to shoot low, if they’re riding Shetlands

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  • Fri, May 08, 2020 - 9:16pm

    Snydeman

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2013

    Posts: 612

    3+

    Yes, sure.

    Huh?

     

    Good day.

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  • Fri, May 08, 2020 - 9:37pm

    Snydeman

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2013

    Posts: 612

    8+

    I mean..

    Thank you for your invitation to comment Qercus_Bicolor, and hope the following will clarify my position:

    An infection of the PP community with evidence’s enemy, faith, is currently contained. It should be remembered, however, that the price of freedom remains eternal vigilance.
    Faith remains an incurable illness, which is highly transmissible and virulent, and the very best we can do is manage its outcomes.
    Faith, like a Honey Badger, is proving its rat cunning and shape shifting qualities make it impossible to ever completely contain and control.
    Be alert, but not alarmed.
    Fortunately, as per world’s best practice, containment measures went early and went hard. The cluster of suffering individuals was identified, tracked, traced and provided with a Bullshit Detector to diagnose their sickness.
    Most asymptomatic cases refused the Detector and denied they were ill and a threat to the community, in their hubris that their faith rendered them immune from reality.
    We are sorry for their losses. We are pissed off about ours. We will learn to forgive what they do to us all here, and remain stalwart never to forgive what they do to themselves.

    What. The. Fuck?

    Most PPers are too nice to call you out on this, so I'll fall on my sword and say you are a completely incomprehensible idiot.

    There, I said it. You string sentences together which make no logical sense  when taken as a whole. You connect fancy words which mean nothing. Your words sound pretty but amount to nothing.

     

    I mean, literally, you address nothing I've said and spout meaningless verbiage. No one here on PP is that stupid. Please attempt again, in a few weeks, with a more savvy shiv.

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  • Sun, May 10, 2020 - 7:54pm

    Island Salmon

    Island Salmon

    Status: Member

    Joined: May 11 2020

    Posts: 3

    1+

    usefulness of SARS-CoV-2

    This is a very large RNA virus--an excellent platform for loading additional RNA onto.  And this virus can vary in antigens by ribosomal shifting in transcription of the viral RNA, meaning it can make the ribosomes start transcription at different starting points of the viral RNA to produce different proteins.  And this shifting can be stimulated by drugs, vaccines, or even simply due to the structure of nucleic-acid triplets, meaning a change to structure can change the operation of the virus WITHOUT NECESSARILY CHANGING THE SEQUENCES.  Since the nucleic acid sequences are what a researcher would typically look at to determine the origin of a virus, a structurally altered nucleic acid sequence would likely escape detection.  Also, selective pressure and mutagens can also be applied to viruses in cell culture and, later, in living animals to select viral strains with desired traits without direct molecular intervention.  This is done in vaccine development, but it could also be done by bad players.

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