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    Why Is Coronavirus News Still So Inaccurate?

    The media should have seasoned vetting processes in place by this time
    by Adam Taggart

    Monday, April 27, 2020, 7:36 PM

“A lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth is putting on its shoes”

The list of sensational headlines based on shoddy research just continues to grow. Whether by commission, omission or plain old ignorance, our media is failing us — it’s not probing as critically and deeply as it should to ensure the information it brings us is valid.

Among several examples in today’s video, Chris scorches recent reports that covid-19 could not have been developed in a lab — reports that rely heavily on an authority who just happens to have years of experience collaborating with Wuhan scientists working with coronaviruses (including bats), BUT THIS WASN’T DISCLOSED.

Our big frustration here is that the reports we’re having to devote time to debunking in our daily videos shouldn’t be getting the air time they are this far into the coronavirus crisis.

Why are there still so many inaccuracies in today’s news? Collectively, the media should have sharpened its game in its pandemic reporting by now. It should have seasoned vetting processes in place by this time.

Especially when the stakes of being wrong are remain so high.

Just another reason to say: It didn’t have to be this way.

Oh well, we’ll continue these daily critical thinking-based updates for as long as their needed. Looks likes that’s going to be for a while…

Don’t forget to get your free download of Peak Prosperity’s book Prosper!. Given its relevance to preparing for any kind of crisis, pandemic or otherwise, Chris and Adam are now making it available to the world for free:
https://www.peakprosperity.com/freebook

_____________________

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88 Comments

  • Mon, Apr 27, 2020 - 8:01pm

    #1
    yogmonster

    yogmonster

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    The most truthful/honest article I think I read since this started

    Motherf*cking Monday #28: Nobody Knows what is Going On

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  • Mon, Apr 27, 2020 - 8:20pm

    realgoodbear

    realgoodbear

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    realgoodbear said:

    I agree! Thanks for linking.

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  • Mon, Apr 27, 2020 - 8:23pm

    #3
    nordicjack

    nordicjack

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    Thanks for getting after Erickson

    This guy is a piece of work..  Wouldnt let this Dr within a mile of my loved ones.  He should have his license revoked for this display..  And , I think he is criminally reckless and negligent as well.

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  • Mon, Apr 27, 2020 - 8:40pm

    #4
    French connexion

    French connexion

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    Wanted: Volunteers to be martyrs for COVID-19 testing

    Wanted: Volunteers for a Martyr experience to test COVID-19 therapy

    One of the criticisms of Dr Didier Raoult is that IHU Méditerranée Infection did not do proper testing before using their treatment on patients testing positive COVID-19.

    Although I can't answer for the doctor, I mention two of the points that he has raised justifying this "conduct".

    1)  Out of sheer urgency you use the elements at hand to heal the sick. Hydroxychloroquine has been used and tested for many years - its inconveniences are well known. This is not an experimental drug. Azithromycin is the treatment of reference, according to Dr Raoult, meaning that it is widely prescribed  for pulmonary infections.

    2)  If you have a treatment which works for well over 94% of your patients - even if the sample, or on-going study group is small - how do you justify doing a "double blind test" when you know that the results of the placebo group will be significantly inferior. Here one can say that this is your opinion, prove it. That leaves the doctor with a dilemma - Do I knowingly condemn some of these volunteers to death or infirmities, or do I just carry on treating real patients as best I can rather than treating people in some "inhuman" way (I do not mean cruel, but rather in a way that does not respect that they are human beings just like me and not some type of number suited for a study). To this point IHU Méditérranée Infection published on March 22  2020 a document signed by six of its professors, including Dr Raoult. https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/epidemie-a-coronavirus-covid-19/

    The last paragraph concludes (my translation) " We think that it is immoral to not include systematically in clinical therapeutic studies of COVID-19 in France, the association (HCQ and AZ)."

    This may seem at odds with proving that the results found in their studies are "objective".

    What they are arguing is that by their Hippocratic oath of doctors of medicine, they cannot in good conscience,  not allow their patients benefit from the best "prise en charge" - care and "diagnostic" of an illness.

    Separately Dr Raoult has said in an interview -  he compares his region Bouches du Rhone which includes Marseille with another region similar in size and population density, Lyon Rhone. The idea here is to see without doing a study with a control group, how do the two regions compare? Knowing that this is very inexact - not everyone treats this infection in an identical way in the two regions.

    And here is the result that LCI - the CNN of French television  - gives, or should I say does not give. As they answer by a rhetorical question,  "Why is it that the Insee does not publish the results for Coronavirus for les Bouches du Rhone? "

    https://www.lci.fr/sante/coronavirus-covid-19-pourquoi-la-mortalite-des-bouches-du-rhone-n-a-t-elle-pas-ete-publiee-par-l-insee-2149529.html

    This is somewhat stale information as it dates March 30th. They give the reason for the omission of the Marseille - a cyber attack.  Since then there is some data which measures the increase of deaths for each département. https://www.insee.fr/fr/information/4470857

    Scrolling down you get for Marseille, Bouches du Rhône plus 19.8%  deaths for 1 March to April 13th; Lyon, Rhône plus 33.7% same period. Paris and its surrounding areas are at much higher levels.

     

    Suffice to say that the results from IHU Méditerranée Infection have been very good.

    https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/covid-19/

    The results aren't so good for Lyon:  1226 deaths from patients hospitalized - after that the devil is in the details. I would have to find elsewhere how many patients have been treated in total.

    https://france3-regions.francetvinfo.fr/auvergne-rhone-alpes/carte-coronavirus-covid-19-voici-se-trouvent-2694-malades-hospitalises-auvergne-rhone-alpes-1796941.html

    If you do bit of "back of the cigarette package calculation": 14 deaths at IHU Marseille for 3130 treated for at least 3 days - compared to 1226 deaths Lyon - at the CFR Marseille you would need to treat 274,098 patients to get to the same number of deaths.

    So far we have had 162,100 cases for all of France. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/

    I would conclude that the Institut national de la  statistique et des études économiques  INSEE, has seen that the results from les Bouches du Rhone do not fit into the statistics given for the rest of the country - so they left them out. What a shame if the reason for the anomaly would improve the results of the whole country if universally applied!

    Now who (and you Tedros how about you?) would like to sign up for the COVID-19 Blind Study?

     

    PS  The principal argument against the HCQ+AZ treatment study is that their patients are not of comparable sickness.  This is true because of the manner in which the treatment works, if taken early it drops the viral load, so that for most patients treated - a hospital stay becomes unnecessary. I would hope that that should be the desired result.

    If HCQ+AZ drops the viral load from early prescription.

    That a low viral load takes the patient out of danger from complications or death

    If sufficient quantities of medication exist for the population as a whole, it then follows that this treatment would allow the population to function freely again - aided by the other factors of constraint to the propagation of the virus being maintained.

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  • Mon, Apr 27, 2020 - 8:40pm

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

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    Wonderfully, insightful, clever read

    Its nice to hear from a person grounded in a dose of reality.  And yet still have some humor (perhaps humility as well ) and sensibility.

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  • Mon, Apr 27, 2020 - 8:46pm

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

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    Re Martyrs

    I always thought this was a good idea.  I am sure there are people ( without family ties ) that would be willing to be heroes.

    One group that I think is best to target for this is the US military./ When I served it was well established that you are expendable.     And they are.. I think they should double or quadruple the life insurance and I am sure many service men would volunteer , there are other monetary incentives that could be given as well..  But certainly things like full scholarships, guaranteed admission to public universities. etc. for service members and familes..  Home loans that are completely forgiven etc..

    Another group that would be a good target is prisoners.. they are all going to get this anyway..   let them participate in research and experiments for some cut sentencing or amnesty..

     

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  • Mon, Apr 27, 2020 - 8:55pm

    #7
    nordicjack

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    If people were all smart, the solution would be very simple

    I keep trying to remind myself why people need to be policed and told what to do.  Oh yeah , they are monkeys.

    The truth is this situation of balance between economy and lockdown or control of virus transmission would not have to be made if everyone were smart.    The solution would be self-rectifying.    Basically,  its simple, people need money they go work and go produce, when sickness becomes too bad and risk to grave, they shelter.   Very simple.   it balances itself..   Even the nay sayers , and those who think this has a small cfr , will shelter in place when enough people they know become permanently disabled or die.      And if the economy is dire,  even those that shelter in place will step out to work.    But as I keep saying,  there is no accounting for stupidity.     I wish everyone had a head,  solutions would be self-evident.

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  • Mon, Apr 27, 2020 - 9:39pm

    #8
    stoff75

    stoff75

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    IFR from Stockholm, Sweden (early edition) - Updated

    During the weekend there was a huge serological test done on 527 staffers at a large hospital in Stockholm. This was supposed to be a random group of staff that has not worked with covid19 patients. You can argue about the sample - staff at hospitals would be more exposed to covid19 even if they aren't working with those patients directly, but on the other hand they would also be the best at "social distancing" and washing their hands. The research team of the Royal Institute of Technology in Stockholm says the test is as close to 100% as you can come, will have to wait for the study to be fully published for it, this is really early information.

    20% of them had antibodies. We have 2,377,081 people in "Stockholm Län". So extrapolated on all of Stockholm, that would mean 475,416 have had covid19. We've had 1,237 fatalities in Stockholm as of yesterday (Monday 27/4). This would, if accurate, mean a IFR of 0.26%. And that's in the entire region of Stockholm, not just the city.

    Update: Had to change the numbers around to take the entire Stockholm Region into account since "deaths" is reported for the entire region.

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  • Mon, Apr 27, 2020 - 10:15pm

    #9
    j0equ1nn

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    How many infections and deaths are possible to document in a day?

    Just one thought I haven't seen you cover, which I'd love to see explored more publicly than I could do...

    What is the upper bound on how many cases we can confirm in a day? Similarly, what is the maximum amount of deaths that can be documented in a day? (I pay more attention to the latter statistic, since I figure some diligence in reporting deaths is more guaranteed than diligence in reporting cases.) With hospitals overcrowding, and scarcity of resources and personnel, this number surely exists. Perhaps the current "flattening" we're seeing, with the ups and downs determined by availability of workers, is not just limited on weekends. Perhaps the true numbers are growing ever higher and we just can't keep up with the documentation and data entry. A trend I look to for evidence of this is how erratic the data is, which has been increasing over time.

    To add some concreteness to this, I'm located in New York City. I suspected the death count was higher than reported, before documentation caught up, just by listening to sirens out my window. It took a while to notice this disconnect, and I'd say it became prevalent around April 16. Since then, the data online has not made sense in comparison to what I see around me. I also have many friends in Mexico, where the government is far less organized. When I look at their data, it is erratic already even though they're about a month behind us in documented daily deaths.

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 12:37am

    #10
    DaveDD

    DaveDD

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    Great video, but that was not the Netherlands

    Again, a great video, however, that was not the Netherlands but another nordic country. The giveaway is this: no red cyclepaths, and hardly any bikes.

    The first video below is about Amsterdam, foreigners are crazy about the cycling infra, according to the Dutch it is not the best example of cycling infrastructure 😂. These are just examples, but red cyclepaths are the standard throughout the Netherlands.

    There is another takeaway: simple people can stand up and change a society (last video). Like the powerful and rich, simple people can also use a crisis to their benefit! Plus it shows that with proper laws, regulations and infrastructure, risks can be reduced, and that some “interventions” do not adress the cause, but the symptom. For example: helmets are not encouraged (they work counterproductive...) but laws, regulations and cyclepaths protect the cyclist. Compare this to the current debate: a complete lockdown could be avoided, if masks, and some rules would be implemented: the flood needs to be contained.

     

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 12:53am

    French connexion

    French connexion

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    Martyrs

    Thanks for your reply Nordic. You had me chuckling - effectively like Gary Larson the bear - the idea of being a martyr is kind of a you first idea. They even had a study for that in Psychology 101:  Prisoner's dilemma.

    But joking aside, that is exactly the Catch 22 situation we are in. We do not have a therapy (proven). We can't prove it without serious risk to the placebo group. TPTB do not seem interested in success - as a results based study does not impress them. And we are waiting for some progress to be shown in testing - please refer to the first point.

    I would say that with each passing day we become ever so slightly more dependent on the hand that feeds us. Until we break free, but that will not happen without some proven therapy. I have the distinct feeling that someone changed the rules of the game when I wasn't paying attention.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=gary+larson+the+bear&sxsrf=ALeKk02TvGXJsNd26CkgmsJYrNsm6KxLeA:1588059332432&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=RsHD1eqJ8S2fsM%253A%252CVSK-d3oD-6xr-M%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kQyx0pcfbHniFnvLYLizo4hTwm5dg&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwie4ZCDzorpAhULy4UKHQhJDZgQ9QEwAXoECAoQHw#imgrc=RsHD1eqJ8S2fsM:

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 2:44am

    #12
    NicolaHNZ

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    Surprise! Not recommending face masks for all because...

    Coronavirus: UK failed to stockpile crucial PPE https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-52440641

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 5:27am

    #13
    XBarbarian

    XBarbarian

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    XBarbarian said:

    "Ideological Rigidity" - DDGoat (iirc) comment on last friday.

    great summarization of our world . looks a lot like corruption, easy to point to conspiracy, and often is, but a whole big bunch of this, occam's razor suggests, IR

    thank you Chris, Adam, and all

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 5:38am

    #14

    LesPhelps

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    Another Excellent Podcast

    Not a dull moment in this podcast.

    Over the years, I've dealt with a personal addictive relationship to a variety of substances, alcohol, cigarettes, addictive foods and caffeine.  Different addictions present different problems.

    Individual results vary, but, for me, nicotine was a long, nasty recovery road.  I'll take my chances with Covid-19, rather than reintroducing nicotine into my life.

    At the end of this podcast, Chris talks about maximizing the immune system and brings up Quercetin again.  I haven't been taking Quercetin yet and did some research a few days ago.  I found this.

    Quercetin is the most common bioflavonoid in the human diet. According to a research review published in the journal Nutrients in March 2016, it makes up 75 percent of the total flavonol intake among adults in the U.S.

    Flavonols, a class of bioflavonoids, are found in purple-hued fruits, such as blueberries and blackberries. These compounds exhibit antioxidant activity — the ability to neutralize or destroy unstable molecules, including free radicals, that can damage your cells.

    Quercetin is found only in plant foods, such as fruits, vegetables, grains, nuts and seeds. If you eat a plant-based diet, you're probably already consuming a fair amount of quercetin every day.

    Some of the most commonly consumed quercetin foods include apples, onions, green peppers, red leaf lettuce, asparagus, broccoli, grapes, beans and tomatoes. Black and green teas are also good sources.

    Overall, the science on supplements is mixed, at best.  I always attempt to get vitamins, minerals, flavonoids and antioxidants from food, where possible, rather than supplements.

    https://www.livestrong.com/article/301326-foods-with-the-highest-content-of-quercetin/

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 6:27am

    #15
    albacore

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    The need for proper tests

    Of course, if you “know” your treatment works, then you are not going see the point of tests with a randomised control group. But the point is, lots of people think they know, when they don’t.
    The purpose of testing is to establish whether a treatment “works well for 94%” rather than assuming that before you start.

    This “martyrs” argument strikes me as emotionally charged special pleading. As I understand it, studies can have protocols to monitor progress throughout the study, and abandon the treatment of one of the cohorts if the results are glaringly detrimental. That applies to both the treatment and the placebo - is that what happened to the CQ cohort in one of the Brazilian studies? But typically the results aren’t glaringly obvious, and need to be followed through to the end.
    I accept there is a difference between fast moving clinical responses and careful research, and clinicians need to share strategies and successes as they emerge. But testing is crucial to ensuring that we focus on treatments that work, rather than showing initial promise.

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 7:20am

    #16
    albacore

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    Some more early results, this time on anti-inflammatory treatments..

    ..from Derek Lowe's In The Pipeline blog: https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/04/27/anti-il-6-for-coronavirus-patients-does-it-work-or-not

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 7:30am

    #17
    Daddy-O McDadstein

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    A Terrain Hostile to Viruses

    Grover sent me a link to an article from the UK's Society for Applied Microbiology that presents facts from numerous laboratory studies on the properties of silver nanoparticles. I'm a landscaper, not a scientist, so many of the technical explanations are a smidge over my head. But the gist is clear enough. And it agrees with my own long experience with silver as a powerful anti-microbial agent. It fills one's immunological "terrain" with battalions of ally assassins. It has many other significant benefits as well.

    https://sfamjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jam.13525#jam13525-bib-0013

    I do hope some will look into this and consider incorporating ionic or colloidal silver into their health regimen. The benefits are numerous, the antiviral properties are very impressive, and the risks are quite low. Certainly lower than those of virtually any pharmaceutical preparation. I mean, everything including water is toxic if you take too much. I would wager that none of the people suffering with Covid-19 were taking a regular course of silver before the onset of symptoms.

    Thanks again to Grover for the link.

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 8:03am

    French connexion

    French connexion

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    albacore: time is not on our side

    The martyrs argument

    Have you looked at the results from IHU Méditerrannée Infection that they update every day?

    The six professors could not in good conscience do a results based study. They chose to treat human beings.

    You are entitled to your opinion, but to do a proper test - please spell out your criteria.

    Indonesia did a small test:

    https://www.peakprosperity.com/forum-topic/hydroxychloroquine-vs-the-globalist-deep-state/page/14/#post-561401 link

    I have long since forgotten things like p value, but Chris did mention that a very low p value means that the results are unlikely to be a fluke. If the link works you can see that the treatment worked 100% for 6 patients; that after 3 days of treatment 83% of the viral load was "gone". Think about the difference between that result and the control group where 1 in 16 had a 6.3% drop in the viral load after 3 days. Think about for each passing day this virus is wrecking havoc in your body. Well I think you might - at least - I hope you would consider - the danger to someone's long-term health.

    No I am not emotionally charged about the martryr aspect - but if you have to have people prove to someone like yourself that this therapy works - my question is simple.

    Normally in a clinical test if I was to participate - my condition should be such that if I was in the "do nothing group"  my end result would not include death.

    Granted we are trying to prove that HCQ+AZ works but at the risk of someone's life?

    Do you call that emotional?

    Here is a video of a "survivor". One of the first victims in France.

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 8:30am

    #19
    thesecuritygirl

    thesecuritygirl

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    can't get HCQ script anywhere in US

    Guys, my hubby is showing symptoms and I was wondering where i can get a script for HCQ.  3 doctors have declined due to not being "safe".  Anyone know where I can get one?  We are on day 3 and although he tested, we can't get results for 4 more days (ugh)!!  Taking HCQ with the assumption he is positive should be okay right?  Does anyone have a doc we can call that would prescribe?  thx

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 8:43am

    #20

    AKGrannyWGrit

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    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1045

    US Threatens Iran - Iran Threatens US. Should we pay attention or go back to obsessing over the virus?

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 8:50am

    #21

    AKGrannyWGrit

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    Thesecuritygirl

    Why would your 1st choice be a drug?  Why not try vitamin D and C, quercetin, chaga, zinc, a good multi-vitamin and multi-mineral supplement?  Zero sugar and lots of rest and sunshine.  Is your husband elderly?

    Having s body that can kick the virus with ease would be preferable to drugs.  With that said, I am sure the drugs would provide comfort - just in case!

    Good luck.

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 9:01am

    thesecuritygirl

    thesecuritygirl

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    not really sure what to do with hubby...

    thanks for your suggestions.  I am at a loss for what to do....

    from what I hear from CM, isn't the suggestion that with any onset of symptoms, take HCQ, even if your tests are not yet confirmed?  I don't want to find out a week from now that we could have prevented spread to lungs and organs... what do we do?  No he is not elderly

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 9:05am

    #23
    ninemileskid

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    ncbi link “page not available”

    Peter Daszak Bat Lady link, above AND in video description box, to NCBI article:

    ”page not available”

    Didn’t expect THAT.

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 9:19am

    MountainBlues

    MountainBlues

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    Dr. Ban Truong

    • https://www.ablmed.com

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 9:45am

    #25

    mobius

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    Corona Virus in Farmed Mink in 2 Dutch Farms

    Dear Chris & Adam, All PP-readers,

    To contradict the, pardon-the-pun,  quack of an academic Dr. Daszak, below an article about farmed mink that are carrying the SARS-COV-II virus.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-netherlands-mink/mink-found-to-have-coronavirus-on-two-dutch-farms-ministry-idUSKCN2280FZ

    The conditions in which these animals should be a factor worthy of further investigation, but oh, no wait....the Dutch CDC, RIVM have seemed to determine that:

    "[th]e possibility that they [the mink] could further spread the virus to humans or other animals on the farms was “minimal”, the ministry said, citing advice from national health authorities."

    My further commenting on the above is fruitless.  But what has reaped great joy and (mental) health benefits for me has being able to 'Prosper'.  I've greatly diversified financially, professionally and spiritually.  Furthermore, my garden plot has improved so greatly due to the advice and featured speakers on this site.  Caring for the earth/ground is so significant on so many levels.

    Please consider this listen https://onbeing.org/programs/wendell-berry-ellen-davis-the-art-of-being-creatures

    Krista Tippitt's  introduction addresses a needed shift in our perception in the chain of being:

    For centuries, the western world read the Bible as a call to dominate the earth and subdue it. For the 50th anniversary of Earth Day, we re-experience this sacred text as a call to reframe the human relationship to the natural world – the land, as theologian Ellen Davis says, on which our life depends. With the poetry of Genesis alongside the poetry of Wendell Berry, we remember the lost art of being creatures.

    Stay safe good people.

    P.s. - Just some whimsy here...Daszak would translate to Badgerbag in Dutch.  Interesting....

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 9:46am

    #26

    AKGrannyWGrit

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    The securitygirl

    First, don't panic. I am in my 60’s and got over it just fine.  I took lots of supplements, 10,000 IU if vitamin D cause I live in Alaska. Copious amounts of vitamin C.  And a water supplement that helped to alkalize my system. You could google baking soda/baking powder.  There are very good posts in this site regarding supplementation.  Do some research and take a logical approach.  Truly, our bodies are designed to be healthy and when we give them the proper ingredients they need we can, usually, overcome this virus.  We as a species have and do encounter viruses on a regular basis.  We no doubt live symbiotically with virus's.  Chances are your husband will get over the virus just fine.  Giving his body a little help with upping his immunity might be helpful.

    And if you get some meds from a qualified Dr. great.  I would be wary of black-market and Internet purchased meds unless from a reputable source.

    Perhaps others, more qualified than I can weigh in?

    Good luck.

     

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 9:47am

    #27
    Madamtruefire

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    8+

    Current video on media et al

    Your latest video is over the moon fabulous.  I am one of the real ones who have followed you for close to 100 days.  Your analyses of infections rising, and all have been splendid. However, these analyses of media swings and conflict of interest are fabulous.  Half the time I think all media, politicians and the govt. folks are making it up as they go along.

    I personally don't buy the Koolaid for animals in wet markets.  The chance of an oops in a level 4  lab, esp. in China is just as possible as a lab accident anywhere else. I've worked in level 3 labs and trust me, anything can go bump in the middle of the night or day....even a centrifuge mis spin.   And yes, it should be considered and handled.  Good luck with that.  Keep deep diving, dude, and thanks for your exponential loss of sleep prepping for these daily videos. most appreciated.  geri

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 9:48am

    PaulJam

    PaulJam

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Dec 04 2016

    Posts: 89

    7+

    PaulJam said:

    I wish I had a suggestion on where to get HCQ from for you.  My elderly mom passed away from it in a long term care facility 10 days ago.  They did not give her HCQ until day 8 after her symptoms started.  It took three days from when symptoms appeared to when she was tested (she was the first infection in the facility, so their level of COVID-alertness was not at its highest level), another day and a half for test results, then they insisted on administering cardio tests before they would start HCQ.  So it obviously was of little benefit to her.  And now I'm left with recounting this painful progression over and over again.

    The inability of many health care professionals to grasp simple concepts such as masks for all = good and anti-virals need to be administered early in the infection trajectory is both damming and dumbfounding.

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 10:02am

    taz1999

    taz1999

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    Joined: Feb 25 2020

    Posts: 45

    3+

    What's the narrative?

    I'm suggesting the deep managers also don't understand WTF because I haven't been able to detect coherent media narratives.  Bouncing around, way worse than we thought to no problem here (move along).  The no problem doctors from the listed video seemed to be pushing back to work narrative but then gets cancelled by facebook.  Facebook deletions are one of my prime indicators of real news.  (or at least anti narrative news).  So I'm pretty convinced the managers have no real idea and will continue to do random stuff; excepting save Wall Street and Hate Trump.

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 10:46am

    Daddy-O McDadstein

    Daddy-O McDadstein

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 11 2020

    Posts: 31

    Hey, Securitygirl

    I've commented a few times about silver. It works. You have nothing to lose, anyway. Get some. If the symptoms are already presenting, take it liberally. Cut back when the symptoms decline. It will always be my go-to, as it totally killed a two year viral infection I had been suffering. It took a whopping 36 hours to do so. Numerous additional testimonials. This link will take you to a very informative page:

    https://sfamjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jam.13525#jam13525-bib-0013

    you should start taking preventative doses now.

    Good luck

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 10:55am

    #31
    tkl

    tkl

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 19 2020

    Posts: 14

    ClO2

    The idea of this chlorine dioxide seems to be very similar to HCQ. The scientist Andreas Kalcker has been researching it for years. On his website, you can even learn how to make it yourself. It is very simple. Of course, big pharma doesn't like him.

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 10:57am

    #32

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1190

    2+

    Nice job by PragerU.. 2 minutes of Dr. Zelenko sanity on hydroxychloroquine

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfQg7XrvMJ8

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 11:01am

    #33
    tkl

    tkl

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    Joined: Mar 19 2020

    Posts: 14

    2+

    Slow tests

    I don't understand why some countries still have problems with testing. In the czech republic there is microbiologist with her own lab - Sona Pekova - who quickly understood that the tests used in the US were too complicated and time-consuming. So she developed her own which is much faster and cheaper. She is giving it away for free.

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 11:07am

    #34

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1190

    6+

    New Paper: Vitamin D insufficiency rampant in Covid-19 ICU patients

    Take your Vitamin D everyone!

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.24.20075838v1

    Results: Twenty COVID-19 patients with serum 25OHD levels were identified; 65.0% required ICU admission.The VDI prevalence in ICU patients was 84.6%, vs. 57.1% in floor patients. Strikingly, 100% of ICU patients less than 75 years old had VDI.

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 11:18am

    #35

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1045

    2+

    So Jim, so vitamin D supplementation could Save lives?

    It seems like common sense.  But I never hear the Government Health Care team promote vitamins and good health.  Just wait for a vaccine.  Hmmmm 8 billion people getting a vaccine.  That's trillions of dollars in someone's pocket.  Vitamin D and C and maybe colloidal silver, what a nickel each?

    5 cents or trillions?

    Maybe I am confused.  Please enlighten me.

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 11:26am

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1190

    5+

    Chlorine dioxide

    tkl said,

    The idea of this chlorine dioxide seems to be very similar to HCQ.

    No.  Chlorine dioxide is a highly reactive, direct oxidant;

    Generally Chlorine Dioxide (ClO2) rapidly oxidises phenol type compounds, secondary and tertiary amines, organic sulphides and certain hydrocarbon polycyclic aromatics such as benzopyrene, anthracene and benzoathracene.

    In general, Chlorine Dioxide will not react on double carbon bonds, aromatic cores, quinionic and carboxylic structures as well as primary amines and urea.

    Commercial applications have shown that Chlorine Dioxide can effectively oxidise many compounds considered to be waste and water pollutants. The table below lists a selection of pollutants found in various industries from our files, and demonstrates the wide range of possible applications for Chlorine Dioxide.

    This is not how HCQ works.. not even close.  There are three possible modes of action and we don't know on balance which ones are most important, though I think many of us technical folks guess that the Zinc ionophore route is in play.

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 11:28am

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2135

    5+

    take vitamin D...or....

    Maybe just go outside for 15-30 minutes a day?  "Free vitamin D."  Plus stress reduction.  Being happy is a big boost for the immune system.

    Oh wait.  We can't do that.  We're supposed to shelter in place.  Can't fix the "terrain", we have to bow down to the little strands of RNA.

    Perhaps another reason why this could melt away in summertime.  We'll get it, but we'll be all "vitamin-D" loaded up.  And it won't transmit outside.  And it doesn't like warm weather.

    Those people going to the beach in CA are following their instincts.  But we're smarter than them.  We have Public Policy based on Science.

    I want my vaccine!  And I'm not gonna leave my room until I get it!

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 11:28am

    #38

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1045

    1+

    Doesn’t “peer reviewed mean Group Think”?

    There is so much politics in Big Education that “Peer Reviewed” could just mean pandering to and fitting in with the established big business bias and policies.  Really, new and revolutionary ideas that challenge the “norm” may not be popular and pass established peer reviewed group think.  I don’t believe that institutional bias does not play a gigantic role in  “peer reviewed”.

    Perhaps it’s time for non-big-ed-biased articles.

    Comments

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 11:41am

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1190

    9+

    AKGranny

    You are a confused conspiracy theorist.  The government, including all politicians and associated bureaucrats are all selfless idealists and always have your best interests in mind.  They will always tell you what you need to know, and they are careful not to bother you with things you don't need to know.  You are best to put your trust in government and hold it in the highest esteem, leaving yourself in its capable care.

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 11:46am

    #40
    kunga

    kunga

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    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 361

    2+

    Vitamin C

    Good article at Life Extension.  Interesting, supposedly, 23% of people in US are deficient.  Average percent of COVID-19 patients admitted to hospital, 24%.  Hummm...

    lifeextension.com/magazine/2015/11/the-link-between-vitamin-c-and-optimal-immunity

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 12:00pm

    SagerXX

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Feb 11 2009

    Posts: 458

    7+

    Ionic silver -- anecdotal evidence of efficacy

    I've posted this elsewhere, but in the whirlwind of events these days, not everybody gets to see every post, so --

    I am reasonably certain I picked up our CV friend in LA this past Xmas, while visiting my mom.  Best guess is either on the plane back to Hawaii, or in the gym I visited while in LA, since otherwise I cocooned with the fam at mom's place, and nobody in the fam got sick.

    Two days after my return, I could feel myself starting to get sick.  I never get sick.  Last time I was sick (defined as needing to go lie down and refrain from normal activity) was for a day and a half in '08 due to the swine flu that came through that year.

    When I felt my energy start to change (I swear I can feel the buggers multiplying in their multi-billions inside me) I megadosed with Vitamin C, ate a whole mess of probiotic foods (sauerkraut, miso soup etc.) and went to bed.  By morning I was ok.  It was as if an intruder tried to do a forced entry but I was able to bar the door in the nick of time.  I still felt a little pooky, but just a tad.

    My girlfriend, my son (3 years old) and his mother weren't so lucky.  Over the next weeks son and mother both required antibiotics for their lungs, and gf ended up with a dry hacking cough that persisted for several weeks (to the point she when she would gargle with salt water, it would come back out pink with blood).  Her immune is somewhat compromised because she had survived breast cancer and was then on tamoxifen for a couple years.

    A friend heard her plight and showed up at her door with a nebulizer and ionic silver.  Overnight, the cough disappeared and her immune system managed to get its arms around the contagion.  After weeks of being in and out of bed, active/inactive, almost-well then again horribly sick, she was well.  Drained but cured.

    As we have also heard anecdotally, COVID-19 can reappear.  Over the last couple months, on a few occasions gf felt like she was relapsing.  Again, treatment with the nebulizer and ionic silver (inhaled) knocked it back down.

    No proof that it was COVID-19 (haven't been tested -- in Hawaii you need a doctor to prescribe a test, and this all happened in January, before anybody knew COVID was a thing).  No proof that it was nebulized ionic silver that was the cure.  Just a story from your ole PP pal Sager.  But I believe.  Bought my own nebulizer, procured some ionic silver.  I nebulize once a week, give or take, because I am not strictly locked down (I make a weekly trip to Costco and the local health food store with a wish list compiled by anywhere from 3-6 families) so no matter my caution I must be getting small doses of infection and I figure it doesn't hurt to practice prophylaxis when it comes to Honey Badger Virus.  <smile>

    Anyhow, make of that what you will.  Hawaii has evidently gotten a very mild case of the pandemic.  But nobody I know who is using silver (there's more of us than you'd think) got sick, either from COVID-19 or that nasty flu that came through this winter but got overshadowed by CV. DYODD, YMMV, IANAD.  (Do your own due diligence, your mileage may vary, I am not a doctor.) But it doesn't cost a lot of money, it has essentially zero side effects, and it might just save your hind end...

    VIVA -- Sager

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 12:05pm

    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 19 2016

    Posts: 306

    4+

    Beaches

    I live not too far from a beach town and it is frustrating in that this county has only 30 active cases, maybe 1 or 2  inthe hospital, only 2 deaths over 2 months.  And they are threatening to re-close the beaches.

     

    Who cares if out of county people come to the beach ? Isnt this their own problem if a few of them expose each other to the virus ?

    The problem is that the state and county governments in CA have no idea what to do next, they are stuck in a mode where they do not want anyone to get sick.  But that is not appropriate !  The hospitals are empty.  I do not think they have the right to tell people not to do outdoor recreation.  Wether people should keep more distance or not, we do not have the constitutional authority to keep doing back to back month long emergency orders when there is no great public threat ( in other words, we are not in a hospital or medical care crisis).

    The beach town I live close to is 500 miles away from L. A. county.  L. A. county can make their own local case of what steps are needed, they are the area having an outbreak

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 12:06pm

    #43
    jdubray

    jdubray

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 28 2020

    Posts: 6

    5+

    Prof. Raoult's protocol includes Zinc

    Chris,

    thank you for all your work. Prof Raoult has published a dashboard, you'll see in the lower right corner his protocol in real-time: https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Capture-d%E2%80%99e%CC%81cran-2020-04-28-a%CC%80-13.14.24-897x1024.png?fbclid=IwAR04ikenP2rUv45uWxWDsugBs5oC7Js7k31NlSZ4zClQTi683_iKwUz9RnE

    For people who speak French: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcvDi6tjldk

    Prof. Raoult explains that he has treated more than 3000 people without any incident related to the use of HCQ. Happy to walk you through the video if you have time.

    Jean-Jacques Dubray, Ph.D. (from University of Aix-Marseilles).

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 12:11pm

    #44

    SagerXX

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Feb 11 2009

    Posts: 458

    1+

    One more thing about ionic silver --

    -- me and mine keep ionic silver in spray bottles outside our front doors, in our cars, indoors, wherever.  Anytime we are concerned with contagion, we spray whatever it is with silver.  Thorough coating, wait a minute, voila!  Clear.  No mess, no noxious chemicals, and quicker than UV or heat.

    FWIW. YMMV. DYODD. IAMAD.

    VIVA -- Sager

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 12:16pm

    SagerXX

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Feb 11 2009

    Posts: 458

    6+

    Beaches

    "The problem is that the state and county governments in CA have no idea what to do next, they are stuck in a mode where they do not want anyone to get sick.  But that is not appropriate !  The hospitals are empty.  I do not think they have the right to tell people not to do outdoor recreation.  Wether people should keep more distance or not, we do not have the constitutional authority to keep doing back to back month long emergency orders when there is no great public threat ( in other words, we are not in a hospital or medical care crisis)."

    I have been going to the beach almost every day.  They are technically shut, but as I have said elsewhere on this site, it's our duty to evade sh!tty authority.  I take my son (3 years old) with me.  It's his happy place, and him in his happy place is my happy place.  A tiny sliver of normality as TPTB crash the economy and begin their efforts in earnest to install a surveillance state.

    Not to mention, vitamin D is good, UV kills CV, I didn't move to Hawaii to hide out indoors, and did I mention it's our duty to evade sh!tty authority?

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 12:25pm

    #46
    aggrivated

    aggrivated

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Sep 22 2010

    Posts: 469

    5+

    Two main factors in the spread of Covid

    1. The density of the population.

    2. The density of the population.

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 12:26pm

    Jerry4Truth

    Jerry4Truth

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 28 2020

    Posts: 4

    Mink carrying virus

    For some reason this smells a lot like ' Save the animals, wear no fur' to me.  If it is true then who's to say how many other animals might be infect-able.  I do believe that animals just like people can carry it in their hair/fur or on their feet/shoes clothing etc.  But not infect-able, except maybe bats and monkeys, and any other poor victim or their close relatives, used in the labs to create it in the first place.  Of course there are undoubtedly several closely related strains also being developed in the labs, and any number of which could some how find their way out to mankind, and then be cited as just natural mutations of the original, but contagious to even those who had developed an immunity to the original ?

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 12:37pm

    #48
    MQ

    MQ

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Oct 13 2011

    Posts: 122

    2+

    new book...

    Wouldn't you know--the day after I buy 'Prosper!', it's free here. LOL  Still, great read, lots of good info, of course. Glad I bought it.

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 12:48pm

    jdubray

    jdubray

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 28 2020

    Posts: 6

    I'll publish a translation of the video tonight

    The video and the scientific content is just too good to pass on.

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 1:06pm

    vshelford

    vshelford

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 13 2014

    Posts: 158

    going outside...

    There seems to be a lot of bitterness about not being "allowed to go outside", so I have to assume that there are areas of the US (and certainly in the most crowded parts of southern Europe) where going outside really is restricted.  But it must vary, and can't we look at some of the middle ground that seems to be working?  Here in BC, we are encouraged to get out, go for walks or whatever for fresh air and exercise (sunshine isn't necessarily on order), just stay a respectful distance from non-family members, wear a mask if you are anywhere near others, all the usual hygiene things.  They did close down the big provincial and federal parks, partly because they weren't sure how well the distancing would be carried out, but also because we're heading into our other catastrophe season - wildfire.  But they're looking at a phased relaxation of that, and the municipal parks have stayed open.  Essential services are still operating, and they're calling out for farm workers, so there's some outside work/activity for those that want it.  Every night on the news we hear of some business that has figured out a way to adapt so they can "open" again - not the way they were before, but adapted to the current needs.  BC is still keeping a tight lid on travel and gatherings, and restaurants and bars are still pretty much limited to take-out, but many of you are talking like someone's welded you into your homes.  I'm interested to hear specifics about what it's like in different places, if someone doesn't mind describing it.

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 1:26pm

    drbrucedale

    drbrucedale

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    Joined: Sep 06 2009

    Posts: 123

    3+

    Please don't dose yourselves with chlorine dioxide

    Please, PP friends, don't dose yourselves with chlorine dioxide. That chemical is a very strong, non-specific oxidant. In other words, it oxidizes everything and anything, quickly. Various forms of chlorine are used to sanitize swimming pools and water, because it kills all microbial life. It will oxidize you, too.  It will probably kill the virus; but only after destroying large parts of you.  Not a good tradeoff.

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 1:42pm

    #52
    ds24

    ds24

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    Joined: Dec 02 2010

    Posts: 13

    1+

    Chronicle prints criticism of Santa Clara study

    Today's Chronicle carries a story that includes substantive criticism of the Santa Clara antibody study: "“I think the authors of the above-linked paper owe us all an apology,” wrote Andrew Gelman, a statistician at Columbia University, who criticized the Stanford study on his widely read blog."

    https://www.sfchronicle.com/science/article/Quick-publicity-of-coronavirus-research-leads-to-15230179.php

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 1:56pm

    #53

    000

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Dec 10 2013

    Posts: 171

    Dangers of Chloroquine and Hydroxychloroquine with Remington Nevin

    Remington Nevin is an MD and expert on the quinoline family of drugs, best known for their use against malaria. He has been interviewed here before, on the subject of mefloquine, which is believed to have caused severe neurologic damage, especially in soldiers who were forced to take it even after experiencing adverse effects. Similar effects are also found with chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine. The latter is often used for rheumatoid arthritis, and doctors there say that it is remarkably free of side effects. They forget, however, that a lot of patients stop taking it quite quickly after starting, probably because they are the sub-group that is vulnerable to side effects. Given that high doses are being used for COVID-19, and on elderly, infirm people, one can expect significant problems with side effects.
    You can find out more of the work of Dr Nevin on his Quinism Foundation website: https://quinism.org
    https://prn.fm/infectious-myth-dangers-chloroquine-hydroxychloroquine-remington-nevin/

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 2:04pm

    #54
    deaconmn

    deaconmn

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    Joined: Sep 27 2010

    Posts: 8

    6+

    VP Pence needs a mask

    Today, VP Mike Pence visited the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, MN. I saw a short video of him and an aid exiting the plane (no masks), and greeted by our governor and others, wearing a mask. Here is a link to his visit at Mayo, and again, no mask:

    https://www.startribune.com/vice-president-mike-pence-to-highlight-mayo-research-in-rochester-today/570006292/

     

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 2:29pm

    moheli

    moheli

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    Joined: Nov 06 2011

    Posts: 36

    ClO2

    Maybe what is meant is that both HCQ and ClO2 are used to fight malaria. Maybe in a different way but some say with the same end result.

     

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 3:28pm

    moheli

    moheli

    Status: Member

    Joined: Nov 06 2011

    Posts: 36

    moheli said:

    Chlorine dioxide is used in public water-treatment facilities, to make water safe for drinking, to disinfect meet, etc... Even in mouthwash and toothpaste (https://closys.com/products/closys-ultra-sensitive-mouthwash) Do you have evidence of what you're saying ?  Because this
    Controlled clinical evaluations of chlorine dioxide, chlorite and chlorate in man. does not confirm your affirmations.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1569027/

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 3:40pm

    grandefille

    grandefille

    Status: Member

    Joined: Oct 11 2010

    Posts: 19

    4+

    It's all guess work, but.....

    I wish I could remember where, but I watched a video of a US emergency room doc who was livid about what he claimed was willful ignorance on the part of the medical establishment, of probably effective treatments.  Long story short, one thing he recommended was tonic water taken with Zinc.  Tonic water contains quinine, which is similar in chemical structure to hydrochloroquine and chloroquine.  That's a fact.  His hypothesis was that quinine also functions like those two drugs to allow Zinc to enter cells.  That might not be correct, but I figure it's worth a try.  I drink a little tonic water with zinc and vitamin C every night.  YMMV

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 3:44pm

    #58
    kunga

    kunga

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 361

    4+

    Luv colloidal silver

    I have used it as nose drops and gargle at first sign of any bug.  Also topically.  The elite have always used silver, why are they called "blue bloods"? and born with a silver spoon in their mouths?  In ancient China if a person bitten by a rabid animal, a silver coin was bound into the wound.  My friend used it for treating sick finches she raised, just dosed their drinking water.  Yay, silver!  Grandfathered in when all those drug laws were passed.  Big pharma just thinks if they ignore stuff, it will go away.

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 3:52pm

    kunga

    kunga

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    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 361

    1+

    Mayo, Rochester

    I went to Mayo for my two hip revision surgeries.  I love my surgeon and the care I got there.  I wouldn't go there for other stuff, probably.  They have as many misconceptions as other medical establishments.

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 3:56pm

    #60
    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 701

    5+

    Anyone else been grocery shopping recently

    I went last thursday,, did stock up much because things looked good at the stores ( 2 stores).   check one of my freezers and noticed i needed to restock it.. and that I expect meat to be an issue shortly..  was at the store today.. NO meat..   Well it has finally begun..  Even if you can find food, I expect steep price increases soon.

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 4:07pm

    drbrucedale

    drbrucedale

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    Joined: Sep 06 2009

    Posts: 123

    1+

    Big Difference between ClO2 and HCQ

    Chlorine dioxide will sterilize surfaces and decontaminate water, killing any viruses on them or in them.  But ClO2 is NOT for internal use. It should never, ever be taken internally.  Please don't do it.

    Here are some of the facts regarding chlorine dioxide.

    https://www.chemicalsafetyfacts.org/chlorine-dioxide/

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 4:33pm

    #62
    planfortomorrow

    planfortomorrow

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 28 2017

    Posts: 151

    3+

    Dave Fairtex and Jim H...

    We go back a long way here at PP. Both of you have represented yourself well. Dave,  you are just brilliant. Jim, we came here around the same time, you brought us into the lab where you work and I love your pieces. I also loved the FACT you were first with Bitcoin way back when we could have all been filthy rich had we invested in Bitcoin when you first brought it to us. I think Bitcoin was under $50 when you did. Stay the course.

    Todays briefing was indeed a good one. You keep bringing it home Chris, and Adam, you do one hell of a job putting it all together. One cannot do without the other and by definition, is what makes a terrific partnership.

    From learning here at PP and from Charles H. Smith, others, I have long ago went with my gut and my gut learned from my dedication to research with tools learned here and elsewhere and is then put in action. I started on the Virus from China back before the turn of the New Year. I have been in isolation since mid January and before I did I topped off my foods and put in shape my back up systems. Battery chargers, weather radio, flashlights and overall resiliency. It was never a hard call that this Virus stood a great chance of becoming a pandemic if just one person came from Wuhan. One is easy, it is a probability it would move beyond its border that was real so I took serious. I always want to be ahead instead of behind. Chris calls it: "better to be a year early than a day late. Perfect logic so I go with that for sure.

    Regarding anything media: I just do not believe any media anymore and if ever there was an industry ripe for change it's the media/reporter. I just think we are starved for honest, investigative reporting that is professional and is factual and truthful. Then step aside and let me make up my own mind. Someone will figure out how to monetize the truly gifted in one place, and the very best will earn a terrific wage reporting truth without having their strings pulled by the Rich status Quo bugs. Like Zero Hedge but mainstream. We all deserve it and boy is it ever needed. Again, I seek the truth and is why Chris and Adam get a lot of attention.

    Folks, so good to see that you have managed to stay healthy and actually participate and share your skill sets here. I love what I get from this site. Peace

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 5:03pm

    #63
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

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    Chris' newest video, "Immuno-compromised" (4/28/20)

    "Coronavirus: Doctors Stunned By Damage Seen Inside The Body" (4/28/20)

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 5:49pm

    #64
    EmJayGee

    EmJayGee

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    Joined: Mar 13 2020

    Posts: 13

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    The guys in CA deserved a little more respect

    Chris, while I don't think their results are as solid as they wish, the two doctors in California are not quite as bozo-like as you were portraying. Their data is based on two surveys, one of which was not randomly sampled, one of which was. So they aren't completely statistically ignorant.

    Their video is as much about questioning the narrative as presenting medical data which puts the medical data onto a shakier foundation since it implies that they may be massaging their data to fit their desired results.

    Anyhow, your overarching point (their methods and analysis are on shaky ground) is reasonable but I don't know if they deserved the evisceration they received.

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 6:03pm

    #65
    Petey1

    Petey1

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    Joined: Sep 13 2012

    Posts: 21

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    Groceries

    I’ve noticed fewer frozen veggies.  Canned meat mostly gone.  Expect eggs to be next when everyone is looking for protein options.

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 6:17pm

    #66

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1045

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    More Info on Food Supply Shortages

    I suspect Ice Age-farmer may be shadow banned or censured outright.  Might want to make note of his website.

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 6:25pm

    #67
    Steve

    Steve

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    Regarding gardens and food supply

    Has anybody been shopping for canning supplies?

    I got my garden in.  Gonna have lots of vegetables.

    What is everybody going to do to store their vegetables for the winter?  Looks like I'm late to the party for canning supplies.

    Where do you get your jars and lids?

    Let's talk about canning.

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 6:31pm

    LesPhelps

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2009

    Posts: 635

    4+

    Social Distancing

    There seems to be a lot of bitterness about not being “allowed to go outside”, so I have to assume that there are areas of the US (and certainly in the most crowded parts of southern Europe) where going outside really is restricted.  But it must vary, and can’t we look at some of the middle ground that seems to be working?  Here in BC, we are encouraged to get out, go for walks or whatever for fresh air and exercise (sunshine isn’t necessarily on order), just stay a respectful distance from non-family members, wear a mask if you are anywhere near others, all the usual hygiene things.

    This is something I've thought about.  Social distancing is easier for some than others.

    Where I live, in Wisconsin, the population density is very low.  The county I live in averages around 75 people per square mile.  A very large city may have 1,000 to as high as 40,000 people per square mile.

    It's a lot easier for me to effectively social distance outside than it is for people in large metropolitan areas.  I can sympathize with people who don't have the elbow room that I do.

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 7:44pm

    jerryr

    jerryr

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    Joined: Oct 31 2008

    Posts: 90

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    For HCQ+AZT prescription, try doctalkgo.com

    News story:

    https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/san-diego-telehealth-company-prescribes-combination-drug-therapy-for-covid-19-patients/509-0a4a3b77-4994-4847-9bbe-520724669771

    The company's covid-19 faq seems to indicate the prescription is still available:

    FAQ

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 7:50pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    Steve, TS still has canning supplies

    Hi Steve,

    My local Tractor Supply still has canning supplies and organic seeds, although they are running thin. Lehman's also has bulk quantities, although there may be shipping delays but deliveries in time for canning season. Scour whatever online or physical stores you can for canning supplies as those are going fast but are sill available for probably only another two weeks or so before the newly woke public rediscovers canning as a means of food preservation.  Ditto for waterbath and pressure canners and dehydrators. Good luck and happy canning! 🙂

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 7:55pm

    #71
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

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    Joined: Jul 21 2016

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    MKNorris free webinar on waterbath and pressure canning tomorrow (4/29)

    I posted this on the "soils" thread, of possible interest.  Space is limited, registration is required: https://www.peakprosperity.com/why-gardening-starts-with-growing-good-soil/#comment-643596

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 8:40pm

    jdubray

    jdubray

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    Posts: 6

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    Translation of latest video from Prof. Raoult

    Prof. Raoult, based on the latest data, what do you think of the confinement exit strategy?

     

     

    We are following the epidemic with our tests and as you can see we are now way passed the pic in Marseilles (note: the last day showed 1621 tests and 29 infected results). This type of curve is common to most epidemic. Generally there is no rebound. One must also understand that epidemic eventually disappear, that's what happened since the dawn of time. We survived!

     

    We don't understand why epidemics fade out, for instance the flu is not infectious in the summer. We know it's not the heat or the humidity, but we don't understand why infected people coming from overseas do not infect people here in Marseilles for instance. It may be a question of ecosystem for instance.

     

    Note that that bell curve is common to all locations in the world Singapore, US, Italy,… But of course all forecasts need to me taken with a grain of salt. The dates provided by the French Government are therefore reasonable. The 11th of May is between the 97 and 99 percentiles of the bell curve.

     

    Now, concerning the treatments, we understand now that there are several phases in the disease.

     

    Let's deep dive in the stats. In Marseilles, at our IHU, we have 25k people who came for a tests, with 16k people with symptoms.  The positive rate went as high as 22%, right now, there is only 5 or 6% positive in a day. We have done more than 6k serological tests. We found only 3.1% of the hospital employees with antibodies, to PPE works. This is actually on the same level as the general population so it's not proven they could have been infected in the hospital. We have taken care of 3325 patients (outpatients), and 630 patients who have been hospitalized, we believe this is the largest series in the world. So overall they have done 4042 virus analyses with 15005 different strains of SARS-COV-2. Pr. Jacquier is working with them to perform low-dose scanner which is better than X-rays and traditional scanners. A key finding is that they found pulmonary lesions in asymptomatic patients (more than 50% of the case).  The Chinese doctors had found it, and they confirmed it. We have also done 7500 EKGs (Prof Deharo, cardiac rhythm specialist).

     

    They are now in the position to think further on the treatment(s) based on this dataset. Several stages then:

    1/ incubation, here we only have a virus and often people are not aware. Young people have often only one symptom, the loss of smell.

    2/ symptomatic period, but of course we need to treat them rapidly at that point. We of course know that this is true for the flu, where Tamiflu only works between the first and second day.

    3/ then we have to deal the immune system (the response to the virus) and little by little there is no correlation between the viral load and the disease.

    4/ Once they have been cured, there is still a risk of pulmonary fibrosis.

     

    Each stage require a different kind of treatment. My belief is to treat patients as early as possible with as many tests as possible. Of course we cannot give toxic documents. This is why Remdesivir cannot work for a large number of patients because the toxicity is too high. This was clear in the study from China, but unfortunately it has very quickly removed from the OMS web site, but we know the toxicity because there were tests for the Ebola epidemic and these studies exposed the toxicity of this medicine.

     

    The first study that was published in China was recommending using Chloroquine. What's important to understand is that HCQ is itself an immunosuppressor, so there is still room to use it even in stage 3. We must know that Chloroquine and HydroxyChloroquite (HCQ) are medicine that have been in used widely for decades, to this day, I still don't understand how the media could have gone ballistic on them, that is madness, they are sick, any physician can tell you. In 2019, in France we sold 36M plaquenil pill and no one was talking about cardiovascular problems. And all of the sudden, we figure out that this medicine is toxic. It was not even mentioned in standard medicine documents. There was recently a study on Plaquenil, on 350,000 patients and there was not one cardiovascular incident. All this knowledge is widely available. It's mysterious to see this madness unfolding. Of course it's all a question of dose. You can commit suicide with it if you want. We must go back to reason.

     

    When it comes to azithromycin this is antibiotic that is the most prescribed for infectious pulmonary diseases, it works well with HCQ.

     

    The effect of our treatment is noticeable, many physicians have used the same protocol. We must return to reason. An 80 year medicine cannot become all the sudden toxic. We cannot imagine how this kind of rumor could propagate, anyone asking a GP would be able to confirm it. What people forget is that Covid19 manifests itself sometimes as a cardiovascular disease, which sometime can be fatal of course, this is true if you take a treatment or not. It's key to check low potassium levels, the EKG. All this is simple and does not justify this madness.

     

    What is the role of physicians in this crisis?

     

    Physicians react very well, I believe we are all well aligned. The idea that we can leave patients without treatment until their pulmonary capacity is too low is ludicrous. We have ne have never done that in the entire history of medicine. We can't leave them in a bed until they can't breath anymore. We can't validate that behavior. We have an analysis by the French health care system of the prescription of HCQ and Azithromycin and one should not assume that's a rivalry between Paris and Marseilles. The one who use the most HCQ are the Parisian patients. They are not crazier than other patients, if they are sick, they want a treatment, if physicians see a patient they can treat, they suggest a treatment.

     

    What is remarkable is the quality of care in French ICU. In general we have seen mortality rate of 20-25% in other ICUs. In the US for instance. In France, we see a 9-10%. They have created a network to exchange information. For instance, as soon they saw embolism as cause of death, they quickly reacted and started to use anti-coagulants across the country. They also use outside standard protocol medicine that control the immune system. They are medicine for that. So we can use them, it's a question of life or death. We must use what we can use to save people's life. The quality of the French ICUs is remarkable, they were under pressure, war like conditions, the results are remarkable, we could have had 30% more deaths. Many people were saved because the quality of care.

     

    So the last stage after ICU, the next question is how to detect pulmonary fibrosis for people who had an immune response.

     

     

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 9:04pm

    vshelford

    vshelford

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 13 2014

    Posts: 158

    re "going outside" and social distancing vs locked in

    This is something I’ve thought about. Social distancing is easier for some than others.

    Where I live, in Wisconsin, the population density is very low. The county I live in averages around 75 people per square mile. A very large city may have 1,000 to as high as 40,000 people per square mile.

    It’s a lot easier for me to effectively social distance outside than it is for people in large metropolitan areas. I can sympathize with people who don’t have the elbow room that I do.

    I agree, Les - I am similarly fortunate - and certainly didn't mean to imply lack of sympathy, but rather wondering if and why smaller cities can't find some middle ground.  Vancouver has a pop density of 13500 per square mile, Victoria 10500, so they obviously aren't as dense as NYC or similar, but they aren't small either, and people aren't locked in, even if most businesses are either closed down or working very differently.

    We have to find a way, while the researchers find some answers to all the questions still hanging there.  I'm concerned that the annoyance is such that people will rebel against any kind of precautions, and deny the problem, because they are so frustrated.  I suspect that where there is comparative compliance and adaptation it's because the limits aren't extreme, even though they are definite and specific.  I guess what it amounts to is, hoping we can get past the hammer and into the dance before denial wins the day.

     

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 9:05pm

    #74
    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 701

    Not sure why meat processing plants would need to close

    I mean they should be the most sanitary places on the planet next to the O-R    . Its not like the are having socials there.. in fact I think hair and face masks are standard equipment for meat processors..  So I have no idea why they are sick.. They should not be going to bar and or club or restuarant  for a good time and getting sick.. So I am a bit confused.

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 10:52pm

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 701

    Emjay regarding the Ca morons doctors

    The guys are morons and arrogant ones at that.    There is no way to cut it.  These guys should lose their licenses, they are not researches, statisticians, pathologists, mathematicians etc.. nothing that gives them the authority to do any sort of data modeling.   Especially, considering that the public looks up to Drs as knowing something and especially when life is concerned.  That is why I think what they are doing is doubly dirty crooked , illegal , criminal negligent and reckless.    Why?  because if they are wrong.. MANY people die..  If they are right.. the other more negative models killed no one.

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 11:00pm

    #76
    Grover

    Grover

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    Joined: Feb 15 2011

    Posts: 773

    3+

    Colloidal / Electrically Isolated Silver

    There have been a few posts on this thread about colloidal/ionic silver. One of the new members, abeland1, started a topic on Feb. 20, 2020 called "Learn How To Make Colloidal Silver." https://www.peakprosperity.com/forum-topic/learn-how-to-make-colloidal-silver/#.

    His post basically provided a link to his "Gold Is Money" thread: https://www.goldismoney2.com/threads/the-art-of-making-colloidal-silver-silver-ions-electrically-isolated-silver.61973/. I followed the link and read all the posts. The posts were generally informative (some more so than others) and the demeanor of the site was similar to PP.

    I've been using colloidal / electrically isolated silver for about 7 years and making it for about 6 years. I learned enough from the thread to consider it well worth my time to read it. In fact, the SFAM link that Daddy-O thanked me for giving him was in post #798 authored by abeland1. https://sfamjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jam.13525#jam13525-bib-0013

    I wish we could get tests to prove the efficacy of silver solutions and to guide us into making better decisions regarding its use. Unfortunately, big Pharma needs to generate lots of billings to keep the monstrosity running. They can't afford to allow any folk remedy to gain precedence. Why are they purposefully trying to downplay hydroxychloroquine? Simply because it is old enough to be off-patent. There isn't any money in there for them. It's the same with silver. Since there isn't any money for them, all you'll get is anecdotes and an occasional oddball study that slipped through the cracks.

    What happens if the wheels come off the economy due to our lockdowns? We're already seeing certain commodities in short supply at the store. You can expect to see many more items becoming scarce. Why? Our Just-In-Time delivery system needs all sources to operate near peak efficiency to work as we expect. What happens when an outbreak of Covid-19 hits one of the key sole source suppliers? Once the inventory has been exhausted, the downstream manufacturers shut down awaiting parts. When you start to think about all the things that have to go reasonably right for our modern existence to continue, it gets scary. Break a link in the chain and the chain fails.

    There are people on this site who advocate growing a garden. Others have a niche in self defense. Some are very good at building shelter. Etc. Etc. Etc. They're all willing to share their knowledge. That's what makes this a community. It also is the main reason I come by as often as I do.

    So, what are you going to do about medicine if there's a long shutdown that affects almost everything? Silver won't cure everything, but it is shown to be anti-bacterial, anti-fungal, and anti-viral. It can be used topically or ingested. A little bit goes a long way. It is easy to make. All it takes is distilled water, pure silver (0.9999+,) and a DC voltage source like 1 or more 9-volt batteries. Of course, there are devices on the market that make the process more or less automatic and can produce ionic silver or colloidal silver. There are also other tools to check the concentration of impurities in the water and the final concentration of CS/EIS.

    Wouldn't it be smart to check out what's needed and how to make it ... while the economy's wheels are still rolling, and you can still get items from the brown truck of happiness? Hmmm.

    Grover

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  • Tue, Apr 28, 2020 - 11:43pm

    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

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    Joined: Feb 19 2016

    Posts: 306

    3+

    meat packing sickness

    Meat packing plants are cold and humid, so very good for the virus to hang around in the air.  The people are working in very close proximety to each other.

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 3:34am

    #78
    TamHob

    TamHob

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    Joined: Feb 13 2020

    Posts: 39

    3+

    Storing veggies for winter

    Other than some waterbath jam I decided not to can - it takes too much wood and destroys a lot of some types of vitamins. Also I'm lazy and want to minimise possibly unsustainable inputs like sealing rings. I'm going with in-ground storage under thick wood chips for roots, tough greens and lettuce (occasional min temp of  -6C but no snow), seasonal winter fruit from citrus etc, about 100kg sauerkraut and another 100kg other fermented veg, tomato paste balls covered in vinegar, garlic, onions and lemons in lacto fermented vinegar with the mother on top to keep the bits below the surface, ginger and turmeric in cooking sherry. Also dry beans in jars and a tiny rick of experimental maize on the cob. Sweet potatoes and pumpkins under beds - with some extra sweet potatoes to sprout for leaves. I'm hoping to have time to work out mushrooms and diy shelf stable stock cubes this winter and some kind of meat storage (my jerky never works and I'm not game to try fermented salami or smoke cured ham).

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 4:41am

    #79
    dadzcats

    dadzcats

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    Joined: Dec 07 2011

    Posts: 19

    Wuhan Lab Conspiracy Theory?

    https://thegrayzone.com/2020/04/20/trump-media-chinese-lab-coronavirus-conspiracy/I am more confused by the day. This article seems to have a decent chronology of the evolution of this theory with links to go deeper. Will we ever know the truth?

     

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 6:34am

    moheli

    moheli

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    Posts: 36

    moheli said:

    It is not what this toxicologic study revealed: "However, by the absence of detrimental physiological responses within the limits of the study, the relative safety of oral ingestion of chlorine dioxide and its metabolites, chlorite and chlorate, was demonstrated." (Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1569027/).  I am not implying that it is for internal use, but if one happens to accidentaly ingest it, the study seems to show one is not immediately at risk at all. (Of course as is the case for everything ranging from water to salt, the quantity matters).

    MMS is sodium chlorite and not chlorine dioxide. Of course one should not drink that. I don't think anybody has suggested that.

     

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 7:13am

    Carl

    Carl

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    Joined: Jul 17 2008

    Posts: 26

    Tomato Paste Balls?

    TamHob,

    I like your thoughts on canning avoidance, but I have never heard of tomato paste balls. Could you elaborate on their production and use?

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 12:02pm

    #82
    jdubray

    jdubray

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 28 2020

    Posts: 6

    Morocco reports some very accurate and very good news, definitely a wonderful case study and success story

    https://www.moroccoworldnews.com/2020/03/296727/coronavirus-a-timeline-of-covid-19-in-morocco/?fbclid=IwAR3Vn9ucPwS65e6NbNTI1AiN-ashIGLQ2C1yDstlo-sGdz4ej73lyW8L99Q

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 12:05pm

    #83
    jdubray

    jdubray

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 28 2020

    Posts: 6

    Mortality in France per Disctrict (called departements in French)

    The District of Prof. Raoult is "Bouches du Rhone" in the south of France. I'll let you calculate the CFR and compare that to other district with 3000+ cases. Consider that Prof. Raoult is just one hospital in the district https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/world/europe/france-coronavirus-cases.html

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 12:11pm

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1190

    4+

    Thank you for the Morocco article JDubray...

    I was intrigued by this in the article;

    A man posing as a microscopic analyst at the Pasteur Institute of Morocco (IPM) advised citizens to have daily sexual intercourse to avoid coronavirus infection in a recording that was disseminated on social networks. IPM condemned the recording and took legal action against the author.

    You mean this is in fact fake news?  I have telling my wife this for two months now and it has been working great - no Corona virus in my house!  I will be sorry to have to tell her that it's not true  ) :

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 4:30pm

    #85
    Mareta

    Mareta

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 30 2020

    Posts: 7

    Incorrect use of sampling statistics!

    Hi there,

    I just saw a post regarding a sampling of Swedish hospitals....below, which is totally the wrong way to set up a random sample. This is just terrible, poor, even high school statistics will inform you that this is not random and you cannot use this to make inference about a population. I suggest people doing these things start consulting with statisticians prior to setting up their tests...

    A correct way to set this up would be to divide Stockholm into 4x4 grids, 16 areas. From each grid, take a random sample of 30 people to be tested. If you cant figure out a way to make this random, just put all the address into an index and roll a dice or random number generator! Do the tests then. Anyone who declines the test should be analyzed to ensure there is no bias across the sampled group. (eg all old people declined tests, etc)

    30 samples from each of the 16 grids will yield 480 persons to be tested.

    The problem with the below is not the quantity of tests done (527) but they way these individuals were selected. (hospital staff that had not worked with covid patients)  Surely these cannot be representative of the Stockholm population! The bias is clearly in the statement itself! No matter how randomly the staff were selected.

    By the way, the test is a good representation of the Swedish hospital staff population in Stockholm. You could say 20% of them have the virus.

    ******************************************

    "During the weekend there was a huge serological test done on 527 staffers at a large hospital in Stockholm. This was supposed to be a random group of staff that has not worked with covid19 patients. You can argue about the sample – staff at hospitals would be more exposed to covid19 even if they aren’t working with those patients directly, but on the other hand they would also be the best at “social distancing” and washing their hands. The research team of the Royal Institute of Technology in Stockholm says the test is as close to 100% as you can come, will have to wait for the study to be fully published for it, this is really early information.

    20% of them had antibodies. We have 2,377,081 people in “Stockholm Län”. So extrapolated on all of Stockholm, that would mean 475,416 have had covid19. We’ve had 1,237 fatalities in Stockholm as of yesterday (Monday 27/4). This would, if accurate, mean a IFR of 0.26%. And that’s in the entire region of Stockholm, not just the city"

     

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  • Wed, Apr 29, 2020 - 4:35pm

    Teri

    Teri

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 21 2009

    Posts: 1

    Thank you

    Thanks for the tip on the MK Norris canning webinar.   Very informative for beginners.

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  • Sat, May 02, 2020 - 9:39pm

    #87
    TamHob

    TamHob

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 13 2020

    Posts: 39

    re tomato paste balls as alternatives to canning

    My tomato balls are just based on what our Italian neighbours used to do when we were growing up as kids. They made a thick sauce by skinning the tomatoes, crushing them in their hands, then straining the juice out through a clean t-shirt. Then they simmered the sauce on low for an hour or so, then dehydrated the paste further in the sun in thin layers laid on baking trays. In the end you get this incredibly thick, stiff paste. They would roll it into golf ball sized balls and then store the balls in a jar covered in oil. I’m trying it in vinegar because I’m paranoid about botulism with the oil/water interface. However, they never had any issues. This is a link to something similar I found online: https://www.culturesforhealth.com/learn/recipe/lacto-fermentation-recipes/lacto-fermented-dried-tomato-balls/

    As for use: mix a ball with water to use it just like a normal tomato paste concentrate for bolognaise and other tomato based dishes. Not sure how well this process preserves the vitamins but it tastes fine.

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  • Sun, May 03, 2020 - 3:03pm

    Cia

    Cia

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    Joined: Mar 08 2020

    Posts: 16

    1+

    Dr. Paul Thomas

    Last week Dr. Thomas announced a free ebook he’s just written on coronavirus. I requested a link there, at Age of Autism, and have read the book several times. He has a lot of suggestions both for prevention and treatment, and thinks highly of HCQ. He recommends high doses of C taken throughout the day, a pulse oximeter to consider medical evaluation at a certain point, and a personal nebulizer with colloidal silver to prevent or treat early pneumonia. He could probably tell you how to get HCQ.

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