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    We’re Close To Your Last Day To Prepare For The Coronavirus

    As supplies fly from the shelves, you'll have to deal using the preps you now have
    by Adam Taggart

    Sunday, March 1, 2020, 7:14 AM

A cases continue to grow exponentially in South Korea and Italy. yesterday the US recorded its first coronavirus death on the continent: a 50+ year-old man in Washington State.

Meanwhile, most hospital systems in the West are woefully unequipped for any large influx of serious respiratory patients.

After dragging its feet for seeming forever, the CDC finally “allows” states to begin testing on their own. Why this took so ridiculously long is inexplicable.

For over a month now, we’ve been consistently telling you that you need to prepare for a covid-19 in your area. Now it’s getting quite close to the  “too late” stage. Already many communities are experiencing runs on basic items like food and water.

Any actions you take from here on out need to be done ultra-responsibly and not contribute to the growing panic and hoarding.

From here on out, it’s going to be about “mitigation” (not containment) and “non-pharmaceutical interventions” or NPIs. That’s a fancy way of saying no large gatherings, no school, and no unnecessary travel or contact.

Use this last bit of precious remaining time before supplies are gone to continue do what you can.

If you’re one of the many new readers here on Peak Prosperity, be sure you’re up-to-date on developments with the coronavirus. All of our latest covid-19 video updates, podcasts and articles can be accessed here for free.

And here’s a brief list of the more recent material that Chris and I have published for our premium subscribers, to give you a sense of what’s behind the paywall (free executive summary, enrollment required for full access)

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265 Comments

  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 7:30am

    #1
    Mr Curious

    Mr Curious

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    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 78

    Prepare now

    Was at the Costco in Missoula, MT yesterday. Very very busy, which is normal. They were sold out of thermometers and Purell. There were no masks, not sure if that was something they carried beforehand or not. Other than that the shelves were bursting with supplies. Maybe there was some tension in the air but certainly not outright panic. Not sure if this is the 'last day' to prepare, but as a citizenry we're certainly overdue to get educated. With respect to being furloughed or facing financial ruin, it's not clear how much most people can actually prepare for that, just gotta ride it out.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 8:16am

    Nairobi

    Nairobi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 05 2020

    Posts: 289

    Agreed Mr Curious, lets not panic

    I agree. This is not the last day to prepare. It is just the beginning for many and honestly I am happy to see people begin to take this seriously. It means that we in North America will have a much better outcome than what has been seen in China as we have had adequate time to adjust to a potential shock.

    Just talking to people on the street and in shops I notice that awareness is already high and many are taking steps to protect their health. The Chinese did not get this lead time and what resulted was panic in many cases. We cannot claim ignorance of the risks at this stage and our advantage will be what we have learned from the experience overseas.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 8:19am

    #3
    Vilbas

    Vilbas

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    Joined: Aug 14 2014

    Posts: 32

    Vilbas said:

    Went to the main Target in St Paul at 7am this morning - the pain reliever and flu/cold sections were damn near wiped out along with other expected cleaning items, but the food was mostly well stocked. I didn't think to ask I they would be restocking those items this morning or if they were totally out. I imagine the first local case(s) will spike local shopping.

    My wife and I are supposed to fly from Minneapolis to Ft Lauderdale (thru KC) on Wednesday and I have been urging that we cancel/postpone the trip. She isn't sold yet but the main reason we are going is to see her family including her elderly grandfather. I don't think it's wise for us to travel at all, especially going from airports to then see her grandfather over the few days afterwards. We are supposed to fly back next Saturday and I believe by then we'll have confirmed cases in many more states.

    Would love to hear feedback from commenters - to me it's a no-brainer, we should put the trip off, but ultimately I'm leaving it up to her.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 8:28am

    Nairobi

    Nairobi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 05 2020

    Posts: 289

    Nairobi said:

    Yes absolutely. You should stay out of airplanes or any other transport where you are confined in a tight area with large numbers of other people. That includes buses, subways and trains. The virus is here now and incubating among the population. We cannot know how widespread it is but I think it goes without saying that your risk of catching it rises substantially by hanging around airports, clinic waiting rooms and bus terminals.

    My local pharmacy had a sign on the window that said hand sanitizer was coming by next Friday morning. That should generate a long lineup that I think I will avoid. This is why it pays to be prepared if only because it gives you the luxury to avoid last minute panic shopping.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 8:29am

    Mr Curious

    Mr Curious

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    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 78

    Should I fly

    Vilbas, I got the same question swirling in my head. It's really time to go (fly) and visit my aging parents. Don't really feel like getting on a plane but.....

    what would the Honeybadger do?

     

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 8:38am

    Kimmy

    Kimmy

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    Joined: Feb 07 2020

    Posts: 2

    Traveling...

    I leave on Thursday out of Minneapolis Saint Paul to go see my dad in Arizona and I am also not wanting to fly and get on an airplane. My dad and his girlfriend are in their 70s and not in the best of health so it worries me. I do have a mask and plan on cleaning my area of the plane and will pray!

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 8:56am

    #7
    karen is a farmer

    karen is a farmer

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 24 2020

    Posts: 27

    Cancelled trip

    I too cancelled my trip next weekend to Cancun.. I have other reasons for canceling besides the Covid 19, but I certainly would be paranoid on any flight and anywhere at this moment in time! Better safe than sorry!

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 8:56am

    #8
    hurdcat

    hurdcat

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    Joined: May 02 2011

    Posts: 5

    Chinese CDC page - Covid-19

    I came across this web page from Chinese CDC and if you have not already seen it, scroll down to the charts, which are very informative.

    http://weekly.chinacdc.cn/en/article/id/e53946e2-c6c4-41e9-9a9b-fea8db1a8f51?fbclid=IwAR2MfaSPSagOt5tXBxlxwC4Cf0FNzwq9OqdUxG7Q46puo3IJcQxyKVCyerA

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 9:04am

    #9
    Thetallestmanonearth

    Thetallestmanonearth

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 28 2013

    Posts: 330

    Snohomish county

    I live in snohomish county, one of the new cases reported yesterday was a teenager in Everett about a ten minute drive south of the Costco I shop at. He got sick Monday and wasn’t diagnosed until Friday. Add in asymptotic spread and who knows how far this has gone. The first death was 1 hour south of us in king county. In the assisted living facility where that patient lived, reportedly 50+ people are symptomatic. The fire fighters who transferred him to the hospital have been quarantined. Hearing the news yesterday when I woke up I got right in the car and was at Costco when they opened for what I assumed would be my last chance to grab supplies. The shelves were fully stocked. As far as I could tell I was the only person in the whole store who was filling up on non perishables. Everyone else was out for a normal Saturday shopping spree. The checker said, “getting ready for something?” Seemingly oblivious to the fact that, yes I was and perhaps he should be too. I made a “joke” with the receipt checker that “guess I’m ready for a quarantine”. She nervously looked at me and said “you’re the third person to say that this weekend”.  I laughed it off and scurried to my car.

    im supposed to fly to Houston Monday for work. My wife and I have discussed it and I’m not going. I’m hoping my work will be understanding but given the response of the general public here in the hot zone, I’m not encouraged that my Midwest based company will appreciate my risk analysis. I will not allow my family to be separated from me by quarantine. I recognize it’s still a tail risk but it’s not a gamble I’m willing to take.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 9:14am

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1190

    Major US-based Science conference cancelled at the Last Minute - APS 2020 in Denver

    The conference was scheduled for this coming week - I was thinking you could use this for ammo with your boss:

     

    https://march.aps.org/

    The 2020 APS March Meeting is Canceled

    Due to rapidly escalating health concerns relating to the spread of the coronavirus disease (COVID-19), the 2020 APS March Meeting in Denver, CO, has been canceled. Please do not travel to Denver to attend the March Meeting

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 9:19am

    #11
    brushhog

    brushhog

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    Joined: Oct 06 2015

    Posts: 83

    This video inspired me to stock up

    I just came back from several stores. We live a very rural, self sufficient life as it is so sometimes I can get a little cocky about preparedness. We processed a young bull this fall so we have more meat than we can eat for the rest of the year. We also have chicken, rabbit, and lamb all in chest freezers. We have limitless well water from an artisan well that overflows even in severe droughts. Etc,etc.

    But after watching this video I decided to go out and load up on some things. Soap, disinfectant, TP, flour, crisco, baking powder, Ibuprofen, fruit, canned goods, rice, etc..

    We also run our hot water on propane so I refilled several 100 lbs tanks so we are good to go until late spring. Next up, fuel. I intend to stock up on diesel for the tractors, gas for the vehicles, and some grain for the livestock. Finally, a bottle or two of Wild Turkey and some beer because man does not live on bread alone!

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 9:20am

    #12
    Vilbas

    Vilbas

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    Joined: Aug 14 2014

    Posts: 32

    Vilbas said:

    So, I thought it productive last night to ask what event or at what point would her red-line be crossed to rule out air travel, and she wasn't sure. Which is fair. She generally follows my lead on stuff like this and generally lets me do the news/threat following. Which is totally fine because I do enough for the both of us.

    My main concerns are 1. picking up the virus and transmitting it to her parents/grandfather; 2. a blow up in cases occurs before our return flight home, stranding us, at least temporarily, in Florida.

    I take mass transit each day to and from downtown Minneapolis at high-traffic times of day, passing right thru the U of Minnesota campus. We even had a worker return from China a few weeks ago, whose hand I shook, and I've had a weird sore throat(but no other symptoms) for the last 10ish days. I don't think I have the ronus, but based on how health authorities have handled it, it is within the realm of possibility that I've been exposed. I don't think the risk of spreading it, however small, is worth it. At all.

    I understand how hard it is for average people to grasp that this is uncharted territory and that it is something that 100% should change your daily behaviors in a serious way. We here know that this is just the beginning, so we understand the severity of where this is heading.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 9:26am

    #13
    nordicjack

    nordicjack

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    Pence and idiots

    They really believe they stopped a pandemic. They still really only think there are 60 cases in the US. In fact, I am sure there are more than a dozen deaths from this already in the US, which have been written off as flu. Possibly way more.

    Also, they think this can only kill elderly people ( not just old healthy ) infirm people. Not just someone who is fully functional that appears healthy. I know their image of this killing old people is some old guy in a wheel chair that cannot get enough energy to walk to the bathroom on his own - or some person with HIV or on cancer meds - that have compromised their immunity. I am sure they are not thinking about the mildly over weight type 2 diabetes that is not insulin dependent ( looking at you mr president) .. But that brings me to another issue. I want to know what the "underlying illness" is. I think its fair to know whether we are at greater risk/ do they include someone with ulcers as underlying health issues? how about gallstones? , arthritis, osteoporosis? mild hypertension? mild hypotension? nerve damage or peripheral neuropathy? fatty liver? Irritable bowel syndrome? Allergies without asthma? anxiety? depression? cluster headaches or migraines? enlarged prostate? is pregnancy a disease?

    And finally, I recall seeing a study where only 1/4 of all serious cases had underlying health issues. And I do recall seeing a study that smoking was not clinically significant in the course of disease. And even those who died, less than 7% had underlying respiratory illnesses. You would think that would put you at the biggest risk.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 9:40am

    #14
    Jeff

    Jeff

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    Posts: 68

    Keep calm

    Low hanging fruit for getting through this:

    1.  Find some peace/quiet/stillness

    2. Don’t forget to laugh

    3. Stop obsessing and constantly updating.  No reason to suffer mentally

    4. Get some sunshine and be outside as much as possible

    5. Be prepared but don’t forget to live

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 9:42am

    #15
    costa rica

    costa rica

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    First Post - Might Have It

    I was formerly a PP subscriber but have been off a few years. We had a tragedy in our family and I crawled into a hole for quite a while. That being said, after traveling to the USA recently, I returned to Costa Rica feeling unwell, mainly just fatigue, cough, and overall body ickiness, until two days ago, at which time I developed painful "stitches" in my chest and back. It has made breathing difficult at night, in particular, at which time my ox/sat levels seem to hover between 88 and occasionally up to 92. It has been scary at times, difficult to change positions, shortness of breath (due to pain - deep breathing, or even normal, seems to pressure the "stitches" to a high degree of pain), etc. I guess I would describe my overall situation as thus: very low-grade fluish in terms of body fatigue and "pressure/ickiness", minor cough, but very painful "stitches" manifesting in the front and back that both are quite painful and can inhibit breathing.

    During the day it all subsides a bit. It is all a bit weird, with seemingly very minor symptoms and yet very rough and scary nights due to shortness of breath and back and front chest pains...

    I guess I could delve a little deeper if necessary, but just wanted to see if any of you guys feel I might be in jeopardy of having acquired the virus?

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 9:47am

    #16

    LesPhelps

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2009

    Posts: 635

    The Other Side of the Eauation

    Suppose you do risk travel to visit an elderly relative, wind up contracting Covid-19 and, unfortunately die?

    My mother has her 90th birthday in late April and my family, mostly who live near her, are throwing a birthday party.  In order for me to attend, I have to travel 2,000 miles.  I’m 68, so, based on current stats, my chance of dying, if infected, is somewhere between 3 and 9%.  Do I increase my risk of dying decades early to attend one party, simply because it is the socially approved behavior?

    It is not a cut and dried decision.

    We are prepared, as much as we can be, without hoarding.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 9:50am

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

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    costa rica re: might have it

    I am not sure if you have it. But I do not like the symptoms you are experiencing. They raise lots of red flags. I would get checked out.. and do not bring up, coronavirus.. that will make them think you are a hypochondriac .. there are lot of those people out there that think they have everything that comes around.. and unfortunately the medical community treats everyone like they are these types.. DO NOT bring up corona virus... But seek help.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 9:52am

    #18
    MariaDWhite

    MariaDWhite

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    What advice to give to someone if you think they may be a COVID-19 case picked in the community?

    As you all know here, the authorities in most places are still thinking that cases will be those with a travel history to places where there is a COVID-19 epidemic, but outbreaks within our communities are probably already happening. I'm asking the question because it's personal: I think a friend of mine may be a COVID-19 case picked in the community, but surely this is going to start happening to other people here. While the authorities don't update their thinking, these people won't be tested because they don't fit the criteria. So what do you tell a friend? Especially if, as in the case of my friend, you know they are unlikely to believe that COVID-19 could happen to them.

     

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 9:53am

    #19
    JonHenry

    JonHenry

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    Joined: Mar 01 2020

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    N95 Masks

    With the shortage of N95 masks worldwide, I wonder how many times a mask can be used if it's sprayed with a disinfectant like Lysol and allowed to sit idle for 24 days after initial and subsequent uses, allowing the owner to rotate multiple masks (24+) instead of replacing them constantly?

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 9:55am

    #20

    thc0655

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 27 2010

    Posts: 2064

    Cats are people too

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 9:57am

    Mr Curious

    Mr Curious

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    Posts: 78

    do you have it

    Costa, I would think you should certainly be tested. Is that possible where you are? your oxygen saturation seems at a level where there is immediate concern, according to the experts.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 10:26am

    #22
    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 701

    Even if this was not that lethal - the raw number for the US

    Lets compare this to a bad flu:
    infections (330M x 10% ) = 30M
    Hosptalizations ( 30M x .01 ) - 300,000
    Deaths (300k x .01 ) = 30,000

    Kung Flu:
    infections ( 330M x 60% ) = 200M
    Hospitalizations ( 200M x .15 ) = 30M
    Deaths ( 30M x .02 ) = 600K

    That leaves 329.5M survivors in the US.. This is not the problem..otherthan you need to treat 30M instead of 300k ( 100:1 normally )
    What happens with the second wave third wave? ADE that is the questions.

    I have a theory , that Iran's numbers are pretty accurate. They may have a much higher infection rate but the death rate is still much higher than other places. Why? Well lets look at MERS vs SARS. This iran wuflu is showing the same sort of difference between SARS and MERS as wuflu ( china ) and wuflu ( iran ). So there does seem some sort of relation.. My theory is simple . When you wonder why a baby, 1-11mos , does not have issues with this virus , without a real functioning immune system, why would it kill ordinary people? Its because you must have been sensitized by a previous exposure. My guess is something in the middle east ( previous infection or vaccine ) has pre-sensitized this population.. basically the ADE effect. SO, that is an game ender in the long run on second and 3rd waves.. The first is an issue.. but nothing like later - I cannot see this not being an issue down the road..

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 10:36am

    #23

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1045

    You Are Right Les

    After further thought I deleted my post.  You are right Les, decisions are so not cut and dried.  There are risks of unintentionally infecting people which certainly offsets the positives to get-togethers. Ugh, no one wants to infect those they love, and others too. And we all need to evaluate our own risks.

    More and more we each will be faced with decisions regarding travel and social exposure.

     

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 10:42am

    costa rica

    costa rica

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    Joined: Mar 01 2020

    Posts: 3

    nordicjack

    Thanks for responding. I am hospital averse; hence, not likely to get checked unless desperate (which I almost felt two nights ago!). I am waiting to see if the "stitches" subside or increase. My ox/sats do go up during the daytime, usually between 91-95. But my breathing is more labored at night as the pain increases with the breath. I do not think I have fever. No headaches or other symptoms. Just a very minor cough which seems to be subsiding as well. If not for the 3 or 4 spots on my chest/back flaring up and affecting the breath, I would not even bring up, of course.

    I am effectively self- quarantined at home in the jungle for the time being...

    Again, thanks for chiming in!

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 10:45am

    costa rica

    costa rica

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 01 2020

    Posts: 3

    Mr. Curious

    Thanks for your response! It is weird how the ox/sat levels go down at night, perhaps because of the shortness of breath (caused by the pain of the "stitches"), but go to 91-95 during the day. Clearly I have something, but intend to self-monitor for at least another couple of days, hoping the "stitches" evaporate. If it gets worse I will probably make my way to San Jose to get checked out.

    Thanks again!

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 10:46am

    chloecasey

    chloecasey

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 25 2008

    Posts: 26

    Costco

    Our closest Costco is Tigard, Oregon which is in the news a lot. Yesterday people were going bonkers and they were only allowing people to buy two packages of toilet paper (and then they ran out). Tigard Costco is the closest Costco to Lake Oswego where the person with the community infection is.  The news showed one woman that bought 100 thermometers - they shouldn't allow that!

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 10:55am

    #27
    CrLaan

    CrLaan

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    Joined: Sep 05 2010

    Posts: 30

    CrLaan said:


    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2002032

    ‘Wash your hands and don’t panic’. We the doctors are here to help you....

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 11:03am

    #28
    Jo Taylor

    Jo Taylor

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 07 2020

    Posts: 9

    Western Samoa

    Samoa has recently had to deal with a measles epidemic. They have a population of approx 200,000, 5,700 cases and 83 deaths. The Samoan Govt shut the country down for a week and vaccinated everyone who wasn't vaccinated, thankfully it worked. The virus came from NZ (we also had/have an epidemic). In response to the corona virus they now require a medical certificate (issued in the past 3 days) before you can enter the country.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/119922535/kiwi-passengers-travelling-to-samoa-will-require-a-medical-certificate

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 11:10am

    #29
    pohzzer

    pohzzer

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2020

    Posts: 6

    THE MOST INTENSELY INFECTED AND WIDELY DISPERSING INFECTIOUS VECTORS IN THE WORLD SEEMINGLY IGNORED.

    That would be the various sex worker clusters in SE Asia, Thailand's first among them.  The Thai PM said there were 22,000 registered Wuhan tourists from Wuhan alone over the Chinese New Year holiday. Other sex tourism locations in SE Asia would have seen their share of the same. The sex worker populations would have steadily approached a 100% infection rate. The nature of their interactions means a nearly 100% transmission rate.

    Another demographic that heavily interacts with this population are international businessmen who routinely order up 'entertainment' from their hotel rooms. This is an international clientele.

    Flying from city to city conducting business and interacting with local sex worker populations, then flying to home to locations across the planet. Their normal prophylactic measures useless against the coronavirus.

     

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 11:13am

    #30
    bethgreenwood

    bethgreenwood

    Status: Member

    Joined: May 19 2011

    Posts: 11

    Fresh Food Prep

    A suggestion for those of you who have some garden space or even a few pots on a balcony. While there is still fresh produce at the store, consider stocking up on veggies that can be regrown. Green onions, cabbage, lettuce (romaine works best), bok choy and celery typically come with some of the root attached. Cut about one-two inches from the base. The base can be regrown in some water on a sunny windowsill and planted when roots appear (green onion bases can go straight into a pot). You can stock up and freeze or ferment the tops, then regrow the bottoms. While you can't grow carrot bottoms or other root crops, you can plant a one-inch length of the top of the root for leafy greens to use in salads, stir-fries and as seasoning. I suspect that if travel really gets shut down, the fresh stuff at the market will go first, and it's not gardening season yet in most places. This will help you carry over until you can start harvesting from the garden.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 11:20am

    #31
    Geedard

    Geedard

    Status: Member

    Joined: Oct 13 2014

    Posts: 63

    Syria war: Turkey says thousands of migrants have crossed to EU

    I wonder how many people are running symptomatic, or asymptomatic. I doubt  any chance for any EU country to "control" this wildcard.   Yet more past decisions coming home to roost...

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51687160

    Turkey says up to 30,000 could cross into the EU in the coming days

    Greece says it stopped 4,000 attempts to enter its border

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 11:28am

    #32
    Geedard

    Geedard

    Status: Member

    Joined: Oct 13 2014

    Posts: 63

    People adapt quickly when informed 😊

    15 second video:   alternative to handshakes and kissing… 🙂

    664EB27D-DEBB-46FF-845C-50E1676E0D78

     

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 11:57am

    Geedard

    Geedard

    Status: Member

    Joined: Oct 13 2014

    Posts: 63

    Great point pohzzer...I hadn't thought of this one

    Great point.    And how many of the 22'000 will admit this contact to their friends, family and doctors...

    THE MOST INTENSELY INFECTED AND WIDELY DISPERSING INFECTIOUS VECTORS IN THE WORLD SEEMINGLY IGNORED.

    That would be the various sex worker clusters in SE Asia, Thailand’s first among them. The Thai PM said there were 22,000 registered Wuhan tourists from Wuhan alone over the Chinese New Year holiday. Other sex tourism locations in SE Asia would have seen their share of the same. The sex worker populations would have steadily approached a 100% infection rate. The nature of their interactions means a nearly 100% transmission rate.
    Another demographic that heavily interacts with this population are international businessmen who routinely order up ‘entertainment’ from their hotel rooms. This is an international clientele.
    Flying from city to city conducting business and interacting with local sex worker populations, then flying to home to locations across the planet. Their normal prophylactic measures useless against the coronavirus.

     

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 12:00pm

    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 19 2016

    Posts: 306

    reply about mask re-use

    The information from this site, not comment section, this was either from Chris M., or the Rawles interview.  So what you want to do, according to him, is to rotate.  Have 9 or 10 masks and wait 9 days and then re-use. do not get it wet or in the sun which will wear it out quicker.

     

    Now, here is me talking, so YMMV :  Be careful when you take this mask off !  Know ahead of time where you are putting it to wait the 9 days.  You will need to disinfect your hands/ face right after taking it off.  You could take it off with a dedicated pair of dishwashing gloves that are clothes pinned up by where you store these masks while they let the virus die.  In that case, disinfect your face, maybe with rubbing alcohol 60% or higher or hand sanitizer ( which is just thickened 60% alcohol)

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 12:19pm

    Crazy_Cat

    Crazy_Cat

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2020

    Posts: 1

    On the Eastside too

    Yep we are also in the Seattle area. Got stocked up when we first started seeing the news a couple weeks ago. Now just waiting to see what happens but people are acting normal. No panic or urgency in the people so far in Bellevue or Issaquah areas here on the Eastside of Seattle. Schools are not closing yet but we may keep kiddos out just in case. Hundreds if not a thousand or so in the area likely infected but not sure how serious it will get.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 12:26pm

    Nairobi

    Nairobi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 05 2020

    Posts: 289

    Too damned funny!

    I  just burst out laughing when I saw that picture of a cat with a mask in the hospital. LOL. Nice. But seriously, by the time this is all over none of us will ever feel quite the same about being around hospitals again.

    It is the last place I would want to be.

    On a different subject, we now have three people on this board today talking about possibly having Coronavirus or wondering if their friend has it. I think you are going to need a video and thread dedicated to just this one topic (Chris and Adam) because as this thing goes exponential there will be many more thousands of people searching for quick honest answers to questions about symptoms they are suffering.

    Not many of us here are Doctors and I won't pretend to be one. I sure would not be willing to answer any medical questions like those being posed about symptoms. Especially since it carries liability. How does that get handled?

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 12:43pm

    #37

    jtwalsh

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Oct 01 2008

    Posts: 267

    The Virus Arives

     

     

    Earlier this afternoon the governor of Rhode Island and the director of the Rhode Island Department of Health announced the existence of the first “presumptive” corvid-19 patient in Rhode Island. The infected individual had returned on February 22nd from a European trip that included stops in Italy. The person is “presumptive” because only testing done in Rhode Island indicated they had the virus. The state Department of Health is still waiting for the CDC to tell them if the CDC agrees with the state test results. The person is presently hospitalized and about forty people with whom they had contact have been asked to “self-quarantine”.

    The “official” word to Rhode Islanders is that you need to “wash your hands” (governor said this at least three times), “stay home if you feel ill” and “do not go to the emergency room” Try to self-treat, then call your doctor who will tell you what to do.

    Dr. Nicole Alexander-Scott, director of the RI Dept. of Health, in response to reporters’ questions, said several times that if you show no symptoms there is little likelihood of you spreading the virus. Therefore, they will only test people “with symptoms” for the virus. She also said that contacts of contacts (second circle of contacts) with an infected person have little chance of contracting the disease. When asked about what information is being given to health care providers like clinics and nursing homes the director said the message was “evolving.”

    It is interesting (frightening?) that the good doctor’s view of the virus’s transmissibility is quite at odds from everything I have been reading on the web. It was also chilling to hear the official first defense is to have everyone wash their hands.

    A little while later an article appeared on the web stating that the infected person had been on a school trip to Europe with a local high school group. The school acknowledged this on its website and also stated it would be closed for the next two days for “cleaning” to take place.

    Rhode Island is small. Metropolitan Providence is even smaller. All this is taking place within ten miles of my house. I finished my last preps yesterday afternoon. There could always be more to do, but over the past week I had to make a list. I determined what was realistically possible and what was already beyond my reach and would just have to be let go. At least the realistically possible things got done. I will try to keep you posted as to developments in this little city-state as this drama plays itself out.

    Chris was right.  It was the last day to prepare.

    JT

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 1:08pm

    #38
    MichaLe

    MichaLe

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 29 2020

    Posts: 11

    https://nextstrain.org/ncov

    explore the 136 genetic variation of that thing which have been sampled to date ... no data from iran yet

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 1:13pm

    #39
    Funky Finn

    Funky Finn

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2020

    Posts: 6

    Funky Finn said:

    Ok, here we go in Finland, too. Six cases total, one of which is a pupil at a ground school (children ages 7-15) in Helsinki. 130 children and personnel in home quarantine for 2 weeks. However 1) not the whole school 2) other family members are not quarantined, and they are advised to wash hands frequently at home and use separate towels, and that’s it! We’ll see how that will work to stop the spread... not very likely IMO.

    Although I’m not an ICU doc, I’d like to comment on the ECMO issue: that’s only for the most critical of the critically ill patients, whose blood can no longer be oxygenated with invasive ventilation. In my understanding most ARDS (acute respiratory distress syndrome, which is how this virus kills people) patients can be successfully treated with regular invasive/non-invasive ventilation. So there are more patient beds for the critically ill than there are ECMOs. Nevertheless, I suspect there is little extra capacity in ICU departments all over the world. I think some patients can be saved in a regular ward (even if they would normally fulfill ICU criteria) using cheap non-invasive ventilation (NIV). And just oxygen and supportive care, iv fluids etc are going to save many. But, if you just look at the numbers (R0, CFR, the proportion of severely ill), this is really bad.

    Thank you once again for the excellent coverage, I’ve been listening to all of them.

    Cheers, FF

     

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 1:26pm

    BillL

    BillL

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 15 2020

    Posts: 115

    Crazy Cat...Bellevue, Issaquah, Redmond, Carnation, North Bend, etc.

    Spent 3 years in that area...Just way to much money, everyone has great insurance, huge wages, lots of hospitals, tremendous normalcy bias, cognitive dissonance, whatever.  (and that was 20 years ago).  We're just to well off to worry, we'll just go to the hospital, no worries.

    Good to see that your taking matters into your own hands.  Best of luck.

    Costco hq in Issaquah is smiling all the way to the bank right now.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 1:35pm

    #41

    saxplayer00o1

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jul 30 2009

    Posts: 3134

    Coronavirus: Hong Kong expert claims outbreak is now a pandemic and US death could be ‘tip of the iceberg’

    Coronavirus: Hong Kong expert claims outbreak is now a pandemic and US death could be ‘tip of the iceberg’

    Asked if the virus, which causes the Covid-19 disease was now a global pandemic, Leung said the only reason for not classifying it as such was maybe the word “triggers public fear”.

    “Technically this is a pandemic, as it is spreading locally in many countries … but the World Health Organisation insisted that it should only be called pandemic when local outbreaks get out of control,” he said.

    https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/article/3053055/coronavirus-hong-kong-expert-claims-disease-now

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 1:57pm

    #42
    Bruno

    Bruno

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 9

    I Pray I’m Wrong,

    First off, let me start by giving thanks to Chris, Adam and the PP team. Hope to enjoy beers with you guys again at another event. Also, to all that have shared so much inside and prepping info. I, like many here, have been wearing a mask now for over a month and dealing with the laughter and heckling, but I understand that it’s not their fault.

    For the last month  I have been trying to suppress this from myself, but after what I saw last night at work, I have to bring it up. I am a railroad engineer of 22 years. In that 22 years, I have never seen a military supply train have any priority. Last night, I was working on a train that is normally a high priority: meaning they stop all other trains and expedite us around them. This time, we were held while they expedited the military train. It took about 30 minutes for it to even dawn on me what had just happened. This is something I have never seen in my career, which is when this terrible thought resurfaced again. 

    Last week, my wife and I were on a road trip trying to find a more resilient place to live, thanks to the years of following PP. We saw a semi-truck loaded with what I had seen years ago and have known as mass coffins/ coffin liners. I enclosed a photo, I didn’t take this pic, but this exactly what saw going down the highway. They weren’t black though, but now an earthy-tan color. I honestly fear for myself and family for even posting this, but heck, we all have to go out doing what is right.

    It all makes sense; the CDC knows the hour. I have seen the 2017 CDC info; they know what they should be doing, but they're not.  Why? I  think they want the infections. This country is ran by very smart people, yet they mistakenly run it into the ground? I can hear Trump already: “This was the best economy ever until this happened.” 

    I have been telling people for years this was how they were going to end our “economy” with a false flag attack. I always thought nuclear, but this virus is even more brilliant. Think about it if you can, I live in a small town that could very easily be shut down and locked up with the guise of this virus. Meanwhile, everyone is told to lock themselves in to avoid being infected. In the meantime, they go to whoever they deem to be an enemy of the state: Conservatives/ gun owners (they know who you are) and systematically remove you with very little notice. If anyone questions them “oh they were sick and are being taken to quarantine for everyones good.”

    We have all seen the videos of exactly that coming out of China.

    For the followers of Bible, where is the USA in Ezekiel 38? If anyone would come to help out Israel it would be the US. The last  pieces of Ezekiel 38 have just fallen into place in the last 2 years. First was  ( Meshech & Tubal)  today know as Turkey turning on Israel, EU and Nato. The last was (Sheba )Saudi Arabia and (Dedan Kuwait) becoming more of an ally to Israel. Last piece is the US needs to be unavailable by some means. Its clear because The creator of heaven and earth wants to show the world HE IS GOD. 

    Ezekiel 38:23 And so I will show my greatness and my holiness, and I will make myself known in the sight of many nations. Then they will know that I am the Lord.’

    Again I Pray i’m wrong but wanted to share this fear anyway. iv included some links and as you can see not only are they ready, its seems as they have been planning for such a thing.

    Pay close attention to whats going on around you. Be vigilant and be ready. Please share what you find.

    US buys 1.6 billion rounds of ammo, enough to sustain a 20 year war. 

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphbenko/2013/03/11/1-6-billion-rounds-of-ammo-for-homeland-security-its-time-for-a-national-conversation/

    Hundred of concentration camps already in the US 

    https://lighthascome.com/2019/08/17/800-prison-camps-in-usa-location-of-fema-concentration-camps-in-america/

    https://educate-yourself.org/cn/femaconcentrationcamplocations07sep05.shtml

    CDC Fema buys millions of coffins

    FEMA Orders $1 Billion Dollars Worth Of Disposable Coffin Liners

    Rex 84

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_84

    Operation Cable Splicer and Garden Plot are the two sub programs which will be implemented once the Rex 84 program is initiated for its proper purpose. Garden Plot is the program to control the population. Cable Splicer is the program for an orderly takeover of the state and local governments by the federal government.

    Garden Plot & Rex 84

    Operation Garden Plot is a general U.S. Army and National Guard plan to respond to major domestic civil disturbances within the United States. The plan was developed in response to the civil disorders of the 1960s and is now under the control of the U.S. Northern Command (NORTHCOM). It provides Federal military and law enforcement assistance to local governments during times of major civil disturbances.

    Garden Plot was last activated (as

    Noble Eagle) to provide military assistance to civil authorities following the September 11, 2001 attacks on the United States. The Pentagon also activated it to restore order during the 1992 Los Angeles Riots.

    Under Homeland Security restructuring, it has been suggested that similar models be followed.

    "Oversight of these homeland security missions should be provided by the National Guard Bureau based on the long-standing Garden Plot model in which National Guard units are trained and equipped to support civil authorities in crowd control and civil disturbance missions." Testimony of Major General Richard C. Alexander, ANGUS (Ret.), Executive Director, National Guard Association of the United States, Senate Appropriations Committee Hearing on Homeland Defense, April 11, 2002[1]

    Rex 84, short for Readiness Exercise 1984, is a plan by the United States federal government to test their ability to detain large numbers of American citizens in case of civil unrest or national emergency.

    According to scholar Diana Reynolds:

    The Rex-84 Alpha Explan (Readiness Exercise 1984, Exercise Plan; otherwise known as a continuity of government plan), indicates that FEMA in association with 34 other federal civil departments and agencies, along with other NATO nations, conducted a civil readiness exercise during April 5-13, 1984. It was conducted in coordination and simultaneously with a Joint Chiefs exercise, Night Train 84, a worldwide military command post exercise (including Continental U.S. Forces or CONUS) based on multi-emergency scenarios operating both abroad and at home. In the combined exercise, Rex-84 Bravo, FEMA and DOD led the other federal agencies and departments, including the Central Intelligence Agency, the Secret Service, the Treasury, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and the Veterans Administration through a gaming exercise to test military assistance in civil defense.

    The exercise anticipated civil disturbances, major demonstrations and strikes that would affect continuity of government and/or resource mobilization. To fight subversive activities, there was authorization for the military to implement government ordered movements of civilian populations at state and regional levels, the arrest of certain unidentified segments of the population, and the imposition of martial law. [1]

    Existence of a master military contingency plan, "Garden Plot" and a similar earlier exercise, "Lantern Spike" were originally revealed by journalist Ron Ridenhour, who summarized his findings in "Garden Plot and the New Action Army."[2]

    Rex 84 was mentioned during the Iran-Contra Hearings in 1987, and subsequently reported on by the Miami Herald on July 5, 1987. [3] Nonetheless, the basic facts about Rex 84 and other contingency planning readiness exercises--and the potential threat they pose to civil liberties if fully implemented in a real operation--are taken seriously by scholars and civil libertarians.[4]

    Exercises similar to Rex 84 happen regularly.[5] Plans for roundups of large numbers of persons in the United States in times of crisis are constructed during periods of increased political repression such as the Palmer Raids and the McCarthy Era.

    For example, from 1967 to 1971 the FBI kept a list of over 100,000 persons to be rounded up as subversive, dubbed the "ADEX" list.[6] This list contained many labor leaders, scholars, and public figures of the time.

    In 2008, for the first time an active military unit has been given a dedicated assignment stateside for civil unrest containment. It is assigned to Northcom, a joint command established in 2002 to provide command and control for federal homeland defense efforts and coordinate defense support of civil authorities.[7]

    References

    1. ^ Reynolds, [1]
    2. ^ Ridenhour, Ron (1975). "Garden Plot and the New Action Army". CounterSpy.  
    3. ^ Chip Berlet, Right Woos Left, [2] 
    4. ^ Berlet and Reynolds 
    5. ^ Diana Reynolds, "The Rise of the National Security State: FEMA and the NSC," CovertAction Information Bulletin, issue #33 (Winter 1990). 
    6. ^ Donner, Frank (1980). The Age of Surveillance: The Aims & Methods of America's Political Intelligence System. New York: Alfred Knopf. pp. 166.  
    7. ^ Cavallaro, Gina; "Brigade homeland tours start Oct. 1"; Army Times, online, Monday Sep 8, 2008 [3] 

    See also

    External links

     

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 2:27pm

    #43
    Thomas McCoy

    Thomas McCoy

    Status: Member

    Joined: Nov 08 2010

    Posts: 15

    Are Prep Supplies Running out in Your Location?

    i just ordered more supplies, and find that typical prepper supplies appear to be running very low.  Virtually all of the traditional Long-Term Food Storage places (think My Patriot Supply, Wise Company, etc..) appear to have most items out of stock, and an 8-week wait list is shown for one site.  My Patriot has the following message - ALERT! Demand for our storable food approaching 100X normal volume. Shipping WILL be delayed on many orders, potentially 8 weeks or more in rare cases. Complete checkout to reserve your place in line now!"  Next, Costco stores (from national news) are seeing a rush to buy key items like Toilet paper, rice, etc..   Hence, I go to my local alternatives (like Wal-mart), where I ordered online for delivery.  On Saturday, I attempted to order 10-lb bags of rice, and they are not available.  Wal-mart substituted 5-lb and 2-lb bags as alternatives.  (Instead of 60 lbs, I only got 30 lbs of rice total).  I attempted the same order on Amazon, and I find Amazon simply orders through Wal-mart in one case.  The 12-lb bags of Uncle Ben's Long Grain rice appear at a higher price than in the past $27 for two 12-lb bags).  Still waiting for two 12-lb bags through Amazon - we will see what happens, but I would think since Wal-mart is out, Amazon may not be able to deliver.  Conversely, my local upscale grocery store (Harris Teeter) where items are sold in smaller quantities appears to be largely business as usual.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 2:45pm

    #44
    Alexis

    Alexis

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 26 2020

    Posts: 65

    my lying eyes

    Thanks for all the nationwide updates all. I think it is helpful to reaffirm we are ALL seeing weird things that don't make sense. Sometimes I really start to doubt my sanity and think I have way overblown this, and then I see some knew news tragedy.  I am a very intuitive person and something just feels all wrong about the USA response. ALL WRONG. Smart people doing stupid things??? I actually saw from one of the news anchors that the patient who died was only tested for CV because her treating doctors did it without permission. That is my hair raising moment. Which sadly, makes me really believe what Bruno saw was no accident.

    I can't remember who posted about Houston, but do not come here. A fellow RN friend of mine sent me an email circulating that CV is circulating here, they will not announce due to the HUGE 4 week long rodeo event that just started this weekend. Also, international students and faculty from Rice Univ were apparently quarantined, also not on the news. My husband frequently goes there and I am of course now concerned. Risk is low until maybe it's you and yours I suppose.

    Also, my dad lives in Lake Charles, LA. He has a family friend who's daughter (middle aged) died of "flu" within the week that persons mother died. 2 immediate family member dying of flu in the same week is eyebrow raising. To not, Lake Charles hosts a wide variety of international, especially Chinese, to the multiple casinos they have there.

    Costa Rica: I echo the concerns about your symptoms. While I know you mentioned hospital averse, your symptoms very much indicate you need a medical assessment and possibly even oxygen supplementation. Of note, this virus has been evaluated at giving 'low-grade' fever, which is 100.4. Many people have not had fever. Dry cough seems to be the biggest complaint initially. However, that being said, an adult should never have an oxygen level in the 80's unless you have a known heart or lung condition. There are alot of others it could be like regular flu with secondary bacterial pneumonia. I dont want to scare you, but do hope you seek help today and that you start to improve quickly.

    On another note, how do we feel about buying an airstream RV and driving off into 100 acres of uninhabited woods???? I thankfully rolled out of the market Monday morning last week so I am ready to put my money to work as Cramer says. LOL Can we just disappear?? My husband could never leave his cellphone so that wouldnt work. HA!

     

    Be well all!!

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 3:08pm

    #45
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    Health official: Covid-19 likely spreading in WA for 6 wks. hundreds of infections likely

     

    Live updates: Last of Diamond Princess crew disembarks in Japan; Washington state announces new cases

    "The novel coronavirus has probably been spreading undetected for about six weeks in Washington state, where the first U.S. death was reported this weekend. A genetic analysis suggests that the cases are linked through community transmission and that this has been going on for weeks, with hundreds of infections likely in the state. "

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/live-updates-last-of-diamond-princess-crew-disembarks-in-japan-washington-state-announces-new-cases/ar-BB10A0Aq?ocid=spartanntp

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 3:35pm

    #46
    Mike Anderson

    Mike Anderson

    Status: Member

    Joined: Nov 25 2019

    Posts: 9

    I may have coronavirus

    It’s been on my mind for ten days at the first indication of symptoms, and today I learned that it’s plausible I have the novel coronavirus. My lifestyle is already somewhat isolating, and I’ve isolated still further since Chris Martenson’s updates in late January, so I have a fair idea what might have happened.

    On January 30 I shared a flute with a high school girl, joking about not sharing viruses. Within seven days she came down with a bad case of the “flu.” Then her stepfather caught it, and on February 10 or 11 he visited the local hospital where he was prescribed oral antibiotics and was sent home because there were no beds available. He worsened, and on February 11 he checked into the emergency room of Sacred Heart Hospital in Spokane, Washington, where he was given albuterol, IV antibiotics, and put on a ventilator. The doctor said had he not come he would have died within 12 hours. Today I learned that he tested negative for influenza. His symptoms were: fever, pneumonia, low blood oxygen, sepsis, and sharp chest pains that he described as similar to a heart attack, and without the usual flu symptoms of head congestion, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. It’s quite distinctive.

    My first symptoms as such were on February 20, and consisted only of a five-minute flash of fever after breakfast and the sensation that there was an infection in my lungs, but without cough or phlegm. I fasted for 24 hours, then ate anthocyanin-rich berries, and I still don’t have any symptoms except for that continued presence in my lungs. My mother reported similar symptoms a day later, but without fever. A week ago the wait time at Sacred Heart Hospital ER was five hours, anecdotally on account of respiratory disease, and I’ve heard of others with similar symptoms in Western Washington.

    What is it? Probably not the flu, and until last Friday (as I understand it) no one was testing for COVID. I’ve tried to be respectful when I interact with people or touch surfaces, but if this has been in the public high school since late January, it’s already endemic.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 3:43pm

    M M

    M M

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 01 2020

    Posts: 1

    M M said:

    Chris

    I am physician sw fl ... covid 19 Sarasota

     

    Doctors Hospital of Sarasota has been notified by the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) that we have a patient in our facility who presumptively tested positive for COVID-19. This patient was admitted to our facility in late February, and remains in our care. On Friday, February 28th, the CDC changed its guidance regarding COVID-19, specifically, the criteria for persons under investigation (PUI), which consequently led the patient to be tested. Upon recognizing that the patient was a potential COVID-19 case, Doctors Hospital of Sarasota immediately and appropriately activated all protocols for handling potential COVID-19 cases, including immediate isolation.

     

    All potentially exposed employees and providers have been identified and the hospital is communicating with them to answer their questions and provide additional information.  We are working very closely with the local and state departments of health as well as the CDC to assure that we continue to take all appropriate precautions.

     

    Please know that the safety of our patients, colleagues and community is of the utmost concern.

     

    For more information, including risk levels for healthcare workers please visit the CDC website.

     

    Just as we have done with seasonal flu and tuberculosis, we identify and treat infectious diseases while minimizing risk to caregivers. By being aware of the very latest recommendations of the CDC, Doctors Hospital of Sarasota was able to identify this patient and pursue testing at the very earliest opportunity.   In this time of concern, we want you to know that we truly appreciate your extraordinary efforts to care for and protect our patients and community.  If you have any questions or concerns, please contact our Chief Medical Officer, Michael Schandorf-Lartey, MD at 941-342-1158 or

    [email protected]

     

    *We are also postponing our Doctors Day event, which was scheduled for Wednesday, March 4th. We will be back in touch soon regarding the new date.

     

     

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 3:54pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    MikeA, WA DoH monitoring and testing

    Hi Mike, I hope that you and your loved ones stay well and free of the coronavirus. I'm not a doctor so wouldn't be able to comment on your symptoms and those of your mother. You seem pretty astute and well-informed, so you've possibly already checked the Washington state Department of Health website. Here's a link that may be helpful, and of particular interest might be the self-monitoring form for symptoms:  https://www.doh.wa.gov/Emergencies/Coronavirus/Resources. There's other information on the site, with some links to local health departments I believe.

    Depending on your self-assessment, you may want to consult with your primary care physician by phone and possibly get tested for Covid-2019. The saving grace (if there is one with this virus) is that you're in a state that is now a high priority for testing, contact tracing and containment; and you're early enough in the process that the health care systems are not completely overwhelmed--yet.

    Good luck, take care, stay well and please keep us posted if you're up to it.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 4:06pm

    LRacine

    LRacine

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 13 2016

    Posts: 12

    Occam's razor???

    It is a pandemic, (they tend to happen every so often) topped with a large dose of gross incompetence and hubris by the government..  (like that is a big surprise...)

    "The explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct.".

    Respectfully and kindly suggesting that a more grounded and pragmatic approach to this crisis might have a better outcome for you and your family...

     

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 4:09pm

    Geedard

    Geedard

    Status: Member

    Joined: Oct 13 2014

    Posts: 63

    Second that Sparky and Mike Anderson

    Second that Sparky - all the best to you Mike Anderson. Fingers crossed for you, one and all.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 4:37pm

    MQ

    MQ

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Oct 13 2011

    Posts: 122

    visiting the grandparents

    I hate to be the doomsayer, but, there is a fairly good chance that taking a trip could expose you to the virus, infect you, and then your grandparents. Something to think about.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 4:49pm

    #52
    Snow Eater

    Snow Eater

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 09 2020

    Posts: 28

    Not coffins

    I was watching spooky videos about those "coffin liners" fifteen years ago, it's an old conspiracy theory about FEMA camps and martial law that has resurfaced. Is there anyone out there that can please identify what those plastic things actually are, so we can finally put this to rest? I'd bet money those are not intended as coffins and have a much more ordinary purpose.

     

    As we have seen in Wuhan, the practical way to dispose of numerous bodies is not putting them into plastic tupperware containers.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 4:52pm

    John Bowen

    John Bowen

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2020

    Posts: 1

    JH Please See PureGreen24 Post and Website

    Believe this may help w/ your question.  GLTA!

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 5:00pm

    #54

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    Why Did No One Think, Hair Dryer?

    I was driving around today getting things done, thinking about my prep and this virus, and I suddenly had a big thought.

    (ok I almost ran off the road then, but wasn't chewing bubble gum too so I was ok)

    We've established that heat causes the virus to die quick, 86F plus I believe. In my tool box I have an industrial heat gun but also one of those cheap hair blow driers. Little sucker puts out some heat too.

    Why couldn't you just remove a mask then give it 5 minutes (or more) of 100F heat to sterilize it?

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 5:06pm

    #55
    PhilH

    PhilH

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: May 24 2010

    Posts: 166

    Too late to prep!!

    Wife started checking her online bulk sources for supplies.  Ran into a bunch of out of stock messages.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 5:15pm

    MarkBaily

    MarkBaily

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jul 04 2009

    Posts: 8

    Hair Dryer

    Maybe it would also, potentially, aerosol some virus...

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 5:16pm

    #57

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1045

    Hair Dryer?

    5 minutes is an eternity.

    No way are people going to stand around for 5 minutes and heat their mask.

    How many people floss their teeth every day and that takes less than 5 minutes.  Plan B?

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 5:20pm

    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 19 2016

    Posts: 306

    re: sterilizng masks

    I think that first, you could never know if that realy would work, and second, heat, sun, chemicals etc... will quickly wear them out.

    Podcast here yesterday or day before  addressed how to re-use masks , this is not from a comment or my opinion, I think it was the Rawles interview, but it could have been Chris M.   Anyway, he said to just rotate them.  So, take one off and leave it for 9 days.  If you have 9 or 10 masks you can just rotate.  This will not cause degredation.

     

    That means packages or other goods, if not sterilized, can be left for 9 days too.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 5:23pm

    Myrto Ashe

    Myrto Ashe

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    Joined: Jan 25 2010

    Posts: 92

    It may be that you still don't meet testing criteria

    Because your contact was a relative of the man who is in critical condition (thus he is probably being tested), you may not yet meet criteria unless you become critical yourself, and we certainly don't want that. Or unless he tests positive and they test his daughter as part of contact tracing.

    I read an interview with a Paris hospital physician who was saying that they can't take care of everyone and those who are not that sick should stay home and not try to get tested - it's just too crazy in the hospitals. You can keep track of the testing criteria and reach out when they change. But call first and see what your doctor says.

    This whole question of testing criteria explains a lot about proportion of mild vs. severe cases etc. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/covid-19-testing/

    And yes, please keep us posted if you can.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 5:29pm

    MarkBaily

    MarkBaily

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jul 04 2009

    Posts: 8

    Hair dryer

    Maybe drop them in a bucket of boiling water would be better

     

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 5:32pm

    Rajkumarijay

    Rajkumarijay

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 08 2020

    Posts: 50

    Great idea with the hair dryer!

    I have to travel to Dallas tomorrow from NH. I have tried to think of every way possible to get out of this business trip. Unfortunately our company was purchased in December. I was with my new boss last week and I made a comment that I might have to start working from home because of the coronavirus and the fact that I have asthma so that puts me at risk. He started laughing. Great.
    I was even thinking maybe I could fall and break my leg so that I could avoid this trip and magically I could self-quarantine at home. Lol

    I plan to wear a mask while I am traveling tomorrow and I was wondering what I was going to do at the hotel. I only have 10 good masks so I need to be frugal and figure out how to reuse. If I carefully remove with latex gloves and hold an antibacterial wipe over the end of the hair dryer, I can disinfect and heat at the same time.

    desperate measures...

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 5:54pm

    spiker

    spiker

    Status: Member

    Joined: Aug 04 2012

    Posts: 9

    spiker said:

    UV wand light on both sides for 30 seconds AND the 9 day rotation scheme.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 5:56pm

    #63
    BBQ MD

    BBQ MD

    Status: Member

    Joined: Oct 08 2009

    Posts: 17

    What to expect with health care workers

    This just happened, had to share this with y'all.  It's a friend of a friend story, but I trust the friend.

    Recently there was a patient in a small community hospital with pneumonia and sepsis.  The plan was to transport the patient to a nearby large city for treatment and to rule out Covid-19.  The friend's friend is a flight nurse who was asked to transport the patient via helicopter, but he refused stating that they had a ground crew with specialized equipment for such patients.  No mention of the protective gear that they had on the helicopter outside of masks.

    There are two things that I find disturbing about this.  The first is that someone was going to transfer this patient in a way that could potentially endanger others; the second is that the nurse refused to participate.  (not that I blame him to be sure)

    This is the intersection of ignorant leadership and workers being placed in potentially dangerous situations.  We saw the same thing here in Dallas when the ICU nurses caring for the ebola patients themselves contracted ebola because their training and gear were wholly inadequate.

    It won't take much for the people "on the front lines" to ignore the overfed meeting attenders and clipboard holders when asked to do something dangerous.  This same dynamic is happening on a national scale as evidenced by our own "authorities".  Their obvious self interest and focus on protecting the economy first has eroded trust.  I guess that shouldn't be a surprise, fourth turning and all.

     

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 6:00pm

    ao

    ao

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    Joined: Feb 04 2009

    Posts: 1304

    dtrammel, I think the hair drier is a great idea

    I was drying out a shirt the other day that I had spilled a little water on.  It gets VERY hot very quickly, way beyond 100 deg. and I doubt you'd even need 5 minutes to sterilize it.  Even if it took 5 minutes (by which time I would almost wonder if the mask might reach combustible temperatures), it's a very brief time when compared to the alternative eternity one may face.  Great idea!  You dry out any humidity in the mask and sterilize it at the same time..

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 6:13pm

    aggrivated

    aggrivated

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Sep 22 2010

    Posts: 469

    Masks and reuse

    I wouldn't wet a mask to disinfect it. Heat or UVlight would be safer. A UV baby bottle sterilizer could work if you exposed both sides. Also a warm 200F oven will work, but might destroy the elastic in the mask. Google some articles on those two approaches. I think there is more risk in our thoughtless habits than in how we disinfect our PPE.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 6:14pm

    Lnorris

    Lnorris

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Mar 28 2011

    Posts: 86

    Health care workers

    I work in an acute care hospital. Four weeks ago one of the nurses I work with said TPTB should have shut down the borders with China. She’s right.  All health care workers (doctors, nurses, therapists etc  are all on the front lines of patient care) We all have families. Once the staff feels like we are being left out to hang, all bets are off. There is a strong sense of us vs them. The suits vs. the front line staff who makes the engine run. The suits will be making economic decisions without regard for staff or patients. FWIW, our performance reviews come due in March. Guess what they dropped off the review? Compassionate care. Go figure.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 6:20pm

    #67

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    Factors in Disinfecting a Mask

    Some good points about the downside of using a hair dryer and heat to disinfect a mask. With the limited supply of masks initially, very few of us have enough to use them once and then dispose of them, so we are going to have to find ways to reuse them safely.

    Lets look at some of the factors that will affect the process of disinfecting a mask for reuse.

    ---

    First thing that comes to my mind is "removal of a infected mask".

    You will have to establish a process to remove your mask, probably at the end of you "de-gowning" (for the lack of a better word, describing the process of taking off your street clothing and putting on you inside clothing) that doesn't damage the mask and allows it to be processed.

    For one use and disposal, you wouldn't need to worry about damage.

    Ideally you'd want the mask to go right into the disinfecting process, whether that is just putting it on a shelf for 9 day quarantine or a type of chemical bath (bleach, H2O2, vinegar, or other disinfecting agent).

    You could put it into a sealable container for later disinfecting, like you would do for you street clothing, taken off and put into a garbage bag, which is sealed then taken to be washed.

    While using a hair blow drier would certainly risk secondary infections, by blowing the virus off the mask and onto other surfaces, I could see putting the mask into a glass container with lid that could be placed in an oven, and then subjected to a period of moderate heat (low enough it doesn't melt the elastic bands on the typical mask.

    Of course this brings up the possibility of cross infection of your cooking oven if the virus got out of the container and you didn't spend significant time under heat to kill it. A secondary oven/heat source might be called for and be a safe option. You could possibly rig up a small box at a window, where a heat source like a hair blow dryer, blows hot air on the mask, then vents the waste air outside your home.

    Heat treatment also has the downside that it uses energy. Something you may not have.

    UV light has promise but uses energy, and only disinfects the surface. Its safe to assume that virus particles will penetrate the weave of any paper mask from the act of breathing, as it pulls air and virus particles into the mask.

    More sturdy respirators have a two part disinfection process. The main body of the respirator could be cleaned by wiping it down with chemicals (or wipes). The filters (probably flat pancake filters) are cloth and probably will stand up to more damage when disinfected than paper masks, though they have a plastic part which can't be damaged or it won't fit back onto the mask or will provide a poor seal and possible infection routes.

    You will though likely have less filters, perhaps only 2-3 for a respirator, meaning you may have a time consideration and need quicker disinfection than just physical quarantine will allow.

    On the other side, any DIY masks will probably be less resilient to cleaning and disinfecting. Ways to make those DIY masks cheaply and practical to use once and throw away would be indicated. Or if they are cloth based, then ways to wash them and still keep them effective are needed,

    Self quarantining of a mask, is the most energy efficient, and easiest. It is also likely that you won't need 9 masks in rotation. Unless you are going out every day, any day you don't, means you won't need a mask, nor have one to disinfect.

    It is also the longest method in time to complete disinfection. A factor if you don't have many masks.

    Chemical treatment takes less time, and the chemicals themselves have a long active shelf life but can degrade the material of the mask, potentially rendering them non-protective. More data needs to be found to tell us if such degradation happens and how much it does.

    Also the characteristics of the chemical used must be considered. Bleach is the cheapest but is a respatorial irritant, perhaps not something you want breathing in. Using a water rinse is probably best.

    Time based quarantine, would require individual places or containers, so that later entries wouldn't accidentally contaminate the older masks and then require restarting the time clock on them.

    Chemical baths risk spillage of the containers, or you running out of chemicals.

    A secondary concern is that any mask worn for a length of time will be moist from your breath. This added water may affect the time and efficiency of any disinfecting method. Or help, high humidity and high heat have been shown to degrade or kill this virus.

    None of this mandates you chose just one method. You could run one or more depending on your activity and weekly mask usage or the amount of masks you have on hand.

    Given the few mask that many of us have, the fact we may not be able to get any more any time soon, and that some of us will be forced to use DIY methods of masking, we need to figure out the various ways to disinfect a mask safely and efficiently.

    ---

    ADDED: Perhaps you could put the mask into a small container, carry it into your bathroom, put it in the bathtub, then use the hair dryer? That way any blown virus should stay in the tub and settle on the surface. Remove the mask and container, spray the area with disinfectant, wait 10 minutes then have a shower and wash the mess down the drain.

    Though I'm not sure if drying droplets would be light enough to aerosol before the virus dies. If that were to happen, the virus would then be airborne in the shower enclosure and bathroom.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 6:37pm

    #68
    karenchantal

    karenchantal

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2020

    Posts: 93

    No worries in Virginia, DC

    I ventured out for a day of fun.

    Before we go full tilt black swan.

    Anyway, Dollar Tree Fredericksburg Virginia, fully stocked.

    Riding the metro in DC, absolutely nothing unusual.

    Though, it occurred to me....  I am only one of a few people I know prepping.  So, I pick a day out in Washington DC, ride the metro through DCA Airport, to spend a few hours in the crowded Spy Museum.

     

    I have never had a germ phobia.  I believe in getting your kids to play in dirt.  But sitting on the metro, at the international airport....  I was kind of wishing I had brought some Lysol wipes.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 6:38pm

    #69

    Quercus bicolor

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Mar 19 2008

    Posts: 404

    mask cleaning

    How about this:

    1. preheat oven to about 170-200°.
    2. Place mask in oven (in a covered glass container will take longer, so maybe just on a tray?). Cover oven vents (usually in the center of the back right burner and in the top of the door) to prevent air exchange between oven and the room.
    3. Leave mask for sufficient time (20-30 minutes?)
    4. Remove mask and turn oven to 250° or higher to sterilize.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 6:41pm

    #70
    aggrivated

    aggrivated

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Sep 22 2010

    Posts: 469

    CDC to send out test kits this week

    I heard from a medical resident I know from church that this week the CDC is sending out thousands of test kits in the USA. More to follow in coming weeks. If serious testing finally gets underway in all 50 states then then the US case count should skyrocket.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 6:52pm

    #71

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    Slow Cooker/Crock Pot as a Mask Oven

    I'm hesitant to put an infected mask into my cooking oven, but what about a cheap crock pot as a heating chamber? It wouldn't need any airflow like a blow dryer. Has a lid, though that doesn't seal well but you could buy one at a garage sale, thrift market or just a cheap one, and set it up at your door. You wouldn't have to carry a potential risk across your home to the kitchen either.

    Incoming masks go into it for a set time, based on how hot it takes to not destroy the rubber bands. Need a good thermometer and a few masks to experiment with, but some of us with a good supply could run the numbers than post them here so people with less wouldn't risk destroying one of theirs. Put it on a timer and walk away from it.

    As long as you had electricity, you could get by with just a few masks, or even DIY masks too.

    You could use the crock pot to disinfect other things not heat sensitive like your keys, though not your cell phone. Use a UV sterilizer for things heat sensitive like the cell phone, credit card or your glasses.

    You should be able to disinfect quite a few things with a suitable period of heat. I'm planning to drop my regular baseball cap for a knit cap to wear over my hair and under my goggles. That could easily go into a crock pot and the heat would penetrate clean thru it. Might shrink it a bit though.

    Nice thing is its not an obvious corona virus need or essential items, so they should still be available after the run on supplies in a week or more.

    The more I think of this option the better I like it.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 7:12pm

    #72
    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 701

    its really getting ready to take off

    Disaster princess now has 1% fatalities with virtually all cases unresolved and 36 in serious/critical/ So this is a closed sample - we should be able to extrapolate a real CFR from the random closed sample.

    Now the US has a 2nd death - with its Fantasy POWER Medical System ..CFR is now at 2% and climbing - as almost all infected in the US are unresolved.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 7:16pm

    #73

    nickbert

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jan 14 2009

    Posts: 285

    Contrary take: stores will likely restock most things over next week

    Ok, so these buying panics have happened twice here in Ulaanbaatar (Mongolia). The first time was in late January before we got back, and apparently it got started when someone posted some empty shelves at a store on Facebook. A fair number of people hit the stores and emptied some store shelves, but the stores had almost everything restocked within a day or two. The second time was when someone on Facebook claimed that a suspected case in Khuvsgul died and his family was in quarantine (the gov't said it was 'fake news' and fined the poster... hard to say if it was gov't coverup or not). Again, stores were back to normal within a couple days easy.

    Our local E-mart grocery supermarket the week after the first panic buying event

    -------

    To be fair there's a few differences... some stores here don't operate with as narrow a 'just-in-time' supply window as the US (so they keep more quantity in stock), and the average Mongolian has much less discretionary income than the average American to panic buy & hoard things. But Mongolians have been dealing with this constant collective anxiety about coronavirus for over a month now, and the grocery stores still have almost everything they normally do in stock. Here it's not that shelves are stripped bare, but rather we simply have a handful of certain products that are near impossible to get. N95 & surgical masks, hand sanitizer, Clorox wipes, and Theraflu products stand out most in my mind (liquid bleach can be kinda hard to find but is usually in stock somewhere). So for these items and other things like elderberry syrup and certain medicines, it might be close to the last day to prepare and get these things. But soap, most foods, toilet paper, and bottled water can be found anywhere. I can't guarantee America is going to experience the same thing we're seeing, but my guess it'll be similar.

    It's always smart to keep several weeks' worth of food & household consumables on hand, but the odds one will be impacted by a layoff or be sick and out of work for a month from this whole thing are far, FAR higher than society will break down to a point where the garage half-full of bottled water and 500lbs of freeze-dried food will be essential. There's a place for that stuff, but I don't see how it's a priority for THIS situation.

    BTW, last Friday my wife's hospital had a suspected coronavirus patient and they promptly closed up the hospital. Fortunately the patient tested negative the next morning (hopefully that won't change over time), but we were steeling ourselves for the possibility of a quarantine-at-home situation for a couple weeks or even being sent to the government's quarantine facility. This is a thing that it makes sense to prepare for... simply being ready to stay closed in at home for several weeks and having enough money to pay the rent and bills until you get back to work. Oh, and be prepared to have the kids staying at home during the day instead of going to school. We've been doing that here in Mongolia for over a month now, and it's likely parts of America will see it soon too.

    I'm not saying that preparing now is a bad thing, just don't get drawn into the panicked sense of urgency seen in some of those Costcos. If what I've seen holds true there, there will be other opportunities to go to the store after the panic subsides. Going to an overpacked Costco not only will cost you time, but do you really want to be around such large, packed crowds NOW? 😉

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 7:25pm

    kunga

    kunga

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 361

    Just stay home

    The ultimate mask solution. Why does everyone think they are going to be out and about, running around as usual?? If you have limited PPE gear, stay put.  Your life will change from now on.  Good luck.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 7:26pm

    Mary59

    Mary59

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 09 2020

    Posts: 96

    Risk Assessment Needed

    Hello

    Risk assessment needed.

    Worst case scenario.....What do you lose?

    If travel ...risk ...health and actually life perhaps.

    If postpone lose money/time/fun.

    I am 60 and would not think of travel by air now.

    Ex UN staff Emergency Response UNISDR UNICEF UNDP OCHA

    Thank you,

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 7:29pm

    #76

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    Well said Nickbert

    Great post, thanks

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 7:33pm

    #77
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    "No one cares," Wuhan residents adapt to food shortages

    For the majority of PP viewers, we have the benefit of time to plan and stock up on water, food and other preps--for now. But when those run out, we may find ourselves bartering and coordinating multi-family or neighborhood group purchases for those items that may be still available.

    ‘No one cares’: Wuhan residents adapt to find food during coronavirus lockdown

    '“I still don’t know where to buy things once we’ve finished eating what we have at home,” said Pan Hongsheng, who lives with his wife and two children.
    Some neighbourhoods have organised group-buying services, where supermarkets deliver orders in bulk.
    But in Pan’s community, “no one cares”.
    “The three-year-old doesn’t even have any milk powder left,” Pan told AFP, adding that he has been unable to send medicine to his in-laws — both in their eighties — as they live in a different area.
    “I feel like a refugee.”'

    https://www.hongkongfp.com/2020/03/01/no-one-cares-wuhan-residents-adapt-find-food-coronavirus-lockdown/

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 7:36pm

    #78
    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 701

    sanitizing masks

    I have washed a lot of particulate masks and resused them without problems - they generally holdup well. However, the real question is do you lose function with washing of N95. I am not sure this is enough if we are really worrying about airborned - except in very low concentrations. So washing should be enough - bleach is obviously corrosive , so I wouldnt use this .. I think hydrogen peroxide or even alcohol bath would work. even a good pure bar soap should work. The question is does the washing effect the electrostatic charge of the mask that gives its some of its filteration? I would guess it would be compromised by any moisture even wearing or washing or heating.. - I am wondering about UVC and ozone. UVC can deteriorate fabrics but I think it would be minimal - yu should get a few cleanings. and it would problably have the least effect on static processes. Does it penetrate? sure the mask is a filter.. just how much time you need may depend how long you used the mask and viral concentration.. but it should work doing both sides. Ozone will penetrate as well - it can be corrosive and it can effect the electrostatic actions of the filter. I would say UVC is proably the best way to keep the mask functional.. just need to do both sides - and about 3 times as longer than general surface requirements.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 7:39pm

    #79
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    Seattle, Washington: Second Covid-2019 death announced

    Authorities announce 2nd coronavirus death in US

    "SEATTLE (AP) — Health officials in Washington state said Sunday night that a second person had died from the coronavirus — a man in his 70s from a nursing facility near Seattle where dozens of people were sick and had been tested for the virus."

    https://apnews.com/ba5ece6010e0eddf5b0af63e6e5ad880

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 7:51pm

    yagasjai

    yagasjai

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 18 2009

    Posts: 118

    Role of Fasting

    Mike,

    I saw in your post that you fasted when you were getting sick- I have been wondering about the role of fasting in preventing or lessening an illness like this. Can you say more about fasting as part of your strategy and if there is any information I could read about that?

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 7:52pm

    #81
    Lineman7

    Lineman7

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 05 2020

    Posts: 20

    Mask Diinfectant Plan

    Here's my plan. I have several of those large vegetable boxes from Costco with 4" sides. I will number 10 masks 1-10 to be worn on the appropriate date, after wearing take them off carefully outside with proper sanitary conditions including gloves, place them curved side up in the vegetable box and place them in the sun for several hours. Afterward, they will stay in the box in a protected area outside until I need them when their number is up. So on the 3rd I'll wear mask #3, on the 5th #5, etc.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 8:12pm

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 701

    Masks alternating

    Yes, if you have enough masks to quarantine the mask as long as the virus is likely to live on the surface and UV will help kill it as well. I am good with that plan. I have been quarantining groceries for standard flu since my daughter was born But flu usually 72hours is enough , though i usually double that. I do have both ozone and UVC in my supplies now for the current situation. I do not need to leave the home for work normally except to pick up shipments ( ugh.. I will be ozoning the vehicle regularly and using precautions. I do not need to interact other than delivery drivers.. though they could be infected or carrying infection ) I will be using all hazmat precautions to handle my deliveries. Or minimizing - if things get bad - my business will tank, I do not sell items that are necessary. I do not need to interact with individuals .. or work with people regulary. I could survive about 9 mos to year without financial issues without additional income or leaving the home.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 8:12pm

    #83

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    Good Plan Lineman, For You

    All we can do here is offer suggestions for each and everyone reading these threads. Present options which you adapt to the situation you personally are in. For some, the option makes sense, while others can't do a similar plan.

    That's the strength of a community.

    Over on the website I run, we call it "disensus", the idea that there is no one answer, no one right option, no one size fits all approach to a situation. The opposite of consensus.

    Some options will work, some options will fail. Its only by coming up with a variety of plans that the one which is right for you will appear.

    Take the ideas that all the people here have, evaluate them with your own situation in mind, implement them as best you can, review where they work and change things where they don't.

    Above all survive.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 8:20pm

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    Not an event, but a change in the way the World runs

    The ultimate mask solution. Why does everyone think they are going to be out and about, running around as usual?? If you have limited PPE gear, stay put.  Your life will change from now on.  Good luck.

    Not everyone is going to have the option to just stay at home kunga. Some will have to go out.

    They may get by with once a week or they may have to go out repeatedly. I have a sister who i will need to check in on regularly, who herself will need to work and make money to live. This isn't going to be a one off event like a hurricane, that crashes upon our individual shores but more like a change of climate. From temperate mild and gentle Summer to a harsh and chaotic Winter where one moment its mild and sunny and next wildy, snowy, cold, nasty and unkind.

    Sometimes you just have to put a coat on, go out and gather firewood.

    What we all can do now while we have some time, is figure out how to be safe in that storm.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 8:28pm

    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 19 2016

    Posts: 306

    Why in the world are you tasking another poster here ?

    Lineman never said that everyone should follow his plan.   It is his plan, and stating such is helpful

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 8:28pm

    #86
    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 701

    Store stocks

    I do not think the stores are going to run out of food in the near-term - its atleast 2 mos out. I think it will be more likely after this next week, you will need to use PPE to shop. It will be the larger problem. Foods will become a problem after people start dropping, hospitals are over whelmed and many many people are ill. I think you will see certain items be out of stock first, ( we have begun to see this ) all things are shipping and restocking now - hence why to prepare before the supply chain is interrupted.. it is mos out. You will not need your deep pantry yet. You will need to PPE to restock or continue .. There will come a point where going out to restock will be more hazardous and you will weight the risk with consuming your previsions. You need to stay well and also have provisions for later on. Its a balancing act. But for the most part , i have not seen tons of preppers but I know many people have prepped - and many stores have reported certain items affected.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 8:31pm

    #87
    Yeo Man 313

    Yeo Man 313

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 28 2020

    Posts: 12

    URGENT: CDC still dicking around on tests

    https://abc7ny.com/5974999/

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 8:31pm

    LesPhelps

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2009

    Posts: 635

    Treat the mask with time

    I only have one.

    If I had nine or ten, I could just rotate them.  From what I've read, corona virus lives a maximum of nine days on a porous surface, like wood or paper, only a few hours on metal, like steel or copper.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 8:34pm

    FooBarr

    FooBarr

    Status: Member

    Joined: Oct 21 2010

    Posts: 61

    N95 Mask and Garment cleaning options, how about a clothes steamer?

    Dtrammel, how about a clothes steamer, provides both heat and humidity?

    Might be some options on what liquid you steam with?  Maybe hydrogen peroxide, or water with bleach, or maybe DIY colloidal silver.  I was checking Walmart and a couple of options available at my local store for $20-30nand more with 2 day delivery option.  I'm thinking it could sit in a plastic tote with a few vent holes or lid cracked and steam away on low setting until it runs out of water/cleaning solution.

    If steaming with diluted cleaning solution then you'd probably want to do it outside or upwind.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 8:38pm

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 701

    Do not use a hair dryer

    Using a hairdryer you will just liberate the virus into the air , makes no sense at all - that is like using an air compressor to clean your mask.. yes boiling water much better idea

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 8:47pm

    #91

    saxplayer00o1

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jul 30 2009

    Posts: 3134

    Take a look at new cases listed tonight

    Confirmed Cases and Deaths by Country, Territory, or Conveyance

    The coronavirus COVID-19 is affecting 68 countries and territories around the world and 1 international conveyance (the Diamond Princess cruise ship harbored in Yokohama, Japan).

    Country,
    Other
    Total
    Cases
    New
    Cases
    Total
    Deaths
    New
    Deaths
    Active
    Cases
    Total
    Recovered
    Serious,
    Critical

    China
    80,026
    +202
    2,912
    +42
    32,594
    44,520
    7,110

    S. Korea
    4,212
    +1,062
    22
    +5
    4,160
    30
    9

    Italy
    1,694
    +566
    34
    +5
    1,577
    83
    140

    Iran
    978
    +385
    54
    +11
    749
    175

    Diamond Princess
    705

    7
    +1
    688
    10
    36

    Japan
    256
    +15
    6
    +1
    218
    32
    19

    France
    130
    +30
    2

    116
    12
    9

    Germany
    130
    +51

    114
    16
    2

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 8:52pm

    #92
    EKlein99

    EKlein99

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 01 2020

    Posts: 6

    AMAZING revelation by VP Pence! US Deaths might exceed 1 !

    This totally blows the paradigm of only one death possible per pandemic out of the water.  This caliber of education is -- I guess? -- vital to administration supporters?

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 8:53pm

    #93
    Time2help

    Time2help

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2343

    School Closure Petition (Please sign)

    Would everyone and their grandmother please do this long time PP'er a solid and sign this petition immediately.

    Lake Washington School District: Close LWSD Schools Due to COVID-19 Death in Washington and New Cases (Change.Org)

    "The novel coronavirus, or COVID-19 started in a wet market in Wuhan, China. This has now spread to over 85,000 people around the globe, and caused at least 3,000 deaths, both totals higher than the SARS and MERS epidemics of the past.

    This virus can stay in the body for three weeks or more prior to symptoms exhibiting, during which the infected can easily transmit the virus to others given it's high R0 value and infectious asymptomatic period. Since this virus may lay dormant for several weeks or more in some cases, during passing period, lunch, and other crowded times the virus will inevitably infect people growing the infection rate exponentially and the students will pass the virus on to their parents who will pass it on to their colleagues and so on. Though the CFR for children is currently low the spread of infection places their parents and elderly grandparents (those at highest risk of complications and hospitalization) at increased and unnecessary risk.

    In the light of the new information that the first US death from COVID was in Washington State, King County, where the LWSD schools are located, and there are three more infections discovered within the Lake Washington School District boundary with more likely to come, we are asking Dr. Jane Stavem, the superintendent of the Lake Washington School District to close schools around the district to prevent unnecessary spreading of this virus and to reduce the risk of a repeat of the experience in Wuhan, China where the local health care system became overwhelmed with patients resulting in unnecessary loss of life.

    Considering this, we request that Lake Washington School District close all schools and facilities as to slow the COVID-19 infection rate and keep students, their families and their elders safe."

    Thank you, much appreciated!

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 8:54pm

    #94
    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 19 2016

    Posts: 306

    Genomic epidemiology of novel coronavirus (HCoV-19

    It has not diverged much yet, but cool graphic

    https://nextstrain.org/ncov?branchLabel=aa&c=country&d=tree&m=div&p=full

     

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 8:54pm

    LesPhelps

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2009

    Posts: 635

    The Best Health Care System in the World

    Did you catch the part where Azar said “We have the best health care system in the world looking out for them?”

    Currently, our health care ranks as the most expensive in the world, but in terms of quality, US health care ranks 37th.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 8:56pm

    #96
    EKlein99

    EKlein99

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 01 2020

    Posts: 6

    Why stockpile water?

    Hi. Might be a stupid question, but is there any reason to think municipal tap water will become unsafe?

    I did my costco major stockup today, including much water, but I don't know why I cared about the water, other than I wanted to get mine before it was gone.

    Perhaps for people who normally buy one pack of water per week anyway it makes sense for them to buy four to prepare for a month of lock-down.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 9:02pm

    #97
    yagasjai

    yagasjai

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 18 2009

    Posts: 118

    Question Minute 25 of this Video

    The case in Northern California where they had the person suspected of having the illness, that they had them under droplet protection but not aerosol protection, and then there are 100 medical staff workers under quarantine because it is being transmitted by aerosol exposure, that person would have been showing some kind of symptoms, so it seems very clear that people showing symptoms can transmit this by aerosol.

    But how do we know if asymptomatic people also transmit it by aerosol? I understand how they could be transmitting it without knowing it by droplets (they  speak enthusiastically and droplets fall onto their hands and then touch a grocery cart which you then touch and then touch your face). But I'm having a harder time understanding how an asymptomatic person would spread it by aerosol if they aren't coughing or sneezing. Are the aerosolized particles evaporated from the droplets produced by coughing or sneezing? Or are they just coming from the person breathing?

    For example, is it the case that an asymptomatic person could be walking in front of you in the aisle of the grocery store talking with their friend, and you pass through the invisible cloud of air they breathed out and you aren't wearing a mask- you can catch it from that? Or are we just assuming that an asymptomatic person is transmitting it by aerosol to be on the safe side? In which case, everyone should be wearing masks all the time, because there's no way to tell who has it or is spreading it.

    Or is it the case that we only have to be worried about aerosol transmission when around someone who is sick? Like if ahead of you in the aisle the person coughs or sneezes not into their sleeve. You might turn around and go down another aisle.

    So if it is the case that we need to be concerned about the aerosol transmission with asymptomatic people, are the N95 masks sufficient? I remember reading somewhere that they were not, because you'd also need goggles. But if you also have goggles (and perhaps earplugs) the N95 is enough for stopping aerosol transmission? Would that be high enough to stop incoming particulates or do you need the N100 respirators (plus goggles)?

    And I can't find where I read it but somewhere on these threads there was a post that said if you might have it (and how would any of us know if we are asymptomatic carriers- without testing) that the N95 mask doesn't protect others from the ventilated air coming back through the plastic thing in the middle, if you have an easy flow valve? So if you might have it, you need to wear the surgical mask, which does not protect you from incoming particles, only protects others from your outgoing particles.

    It seems like there might be something I am missing here, so I wanted to ask, but surgical masks stop you from spreading it to others if you are either symptomatic or asymptomatic. And N95 masks stop people from spreading it to you via droplets and/or aerosol if you also have goggles, but does not keep you from spreading it to them via the easy flow valve- is that correct?  And the only way to do both at the same time is the N100 mask?

    The reason I am asking is because I think there will be a lot of us who were recently sick and never tested for Covid-19, and in order to err on the side of caution in terms of both not wanting to get infected again AND not wanting to infect others, it helps to understand the specific dynamics related to the different masks in relation to aerosol transmission.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 9:04pm

    #98

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    Even City Water Company Employees Get Sick

    Doesn't have to become unsafe if the workers who man the buildings don't come in because they are sick.

    I recommend people stockpile 10-12 gallons a person because there may be short outages or problems which cut off your supply for a short period of time.

    By the same token, you need 20-30 gallons of water, even bad water to flush your toilet in such a case.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 9:06pm

    MQ

    MQ

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Oct 13 2011

    Posts: 122

    masks

    I was in the northwest a couple of years ago when the forests were burning and purchased a cloth mask with N95 inserts. It worked very well, was snug around my face and didn't allow smoke inside. Hot and not the most comfortable for long time wear, but doable. It even filtered out the pollution in Akron OH the next summer. the mask is washable, cotton, but the inserts are not. So...I was wondering if I could cut the filters for my air purifier the right size and use them as inserts?
    Any ideas?

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 9:06pm

    Mike Anderson

    Mike Anderson

    Status: Member

    Joined: Nov 25 2019

    Posts: 9

    Fasting

    About fasting. I don’t fast often enough to see a pattern of health benefits, but I understand it has been helpful for otherwise intractable autoimmune diseases such as ulcerative colitis. When I learned that the primary danger with the coronavirus was cytokine storm, an immune system overreaction, I thought fasting might help. A quick search for cytokine storm syndrome turned up a report from Dr. Randy Cron using anakinra, a rheumatoid arthritis drug, and in one case he described it as “magical.” Similarly the more established treatments of corticosteroids and Tocilizumab (an anti-IL6 monoclonal antibody) can also suppress the immune feedback loop. But if such drugs aren’t available, fasting might still help.

    Cytokine storm syndrome seems to have been in play with the 1918 influenza pandemic, and in the book “Fasting and Man’s Correct Diet” by R. B. Pearson pages 48-50, Pearson shows the death rates for allopathic (drug) doctors around 14% whereas those employing fasting and enemas had between 0 and 1%. I can’t imagine that’s entirely due to fasting considering the Spanish Flu often killed in less than 24 hours, but I’m clueless about enemas and I’d have to be really sick to consider them.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 9:07pm

    Yeo Man 313

    Yeo Man 313

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 28 2020

    Posts: 12

    Logan International still taking china flights???

    https://www.bostonherald.com/2020/01/29/china-flights-still-arriving-at-logan-airport-as-coronavirus-fears-grow/?fbclid=IwAR0w4qLS0pz3zC48uEHSiaBoT9IZOMiEc1dMwp961RVFYLD57MCqOksVIBg

     

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 9:09pm

    BillL

    BillL

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 15 2020

    Posts: 115

    Dry sauna or similar...

    If 86 is the temp as dtrammel says, pretty easy to kill bugs with one of these.

    Lot's of folks have a steam shower as well.  Heat is heat.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 9:11pm

    Mr Curious

    Mr Curious

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 78

    brothel quaratine

    Pohzzer, check this article out. https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2020-02-28/when-bad-news-good-news-119-people-have-been-quarantined-brothel-spain

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 9:11pm

    kunga

    kunga

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 361

    Wow, dtrammel

    The old "climate change" argument!  You can squirm and wiggle and cry but I repeat: Stay home.  Your sister sounds like a big girl, ever heard of email or telephone?  Those with limited gear, if your job won't provide a reasonable safety solution, is it worth your life to make money to live?  I do appreciate your help for the folks, here, and I'm kind of giving you a hard time.  But, consider, you really need to shave your head.  🐱🐱

    Peace out.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 9:14pm

    MQ

    MQ

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Oct 13 2011

    Posts: 122

    Don't waste water flushing.

    If the water is off, instead of using drinking water to flush, get a five gallon bucket, line it with two trash bags, buy a few bags of wood shavings in the pet dept. (walmart?), buy a toilet seat (there are ones just for five gallon buckets), do your business, cover with shavings, close the toilet lid. Save your water for drinking.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 9:14pm

    Mr Curious

    Mr Curious

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 78

    Sauna

    I believe that I have stopped colds in their tracks more than once by hitting the sauna with lots of hydration and then sleeping for a long time.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 9:15pm

    yagasjai

    yagasjai

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 18 2009

    Posts: 118

    Thanks Mike

    I appreciate your response. I liked your post but not sure it shows. I will look up those resources. I've been wondering if fasting could help in this situation, so it's useful to hear what others are thinking about it too.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 9:16pm

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    Who do you think makes that food?

    Nordicjack you are doing what so many people I've spoken to do, think that their groceries and supplies come from the magic Amazon or Walmart land, where things are made without human input. Do you know think that some low paying factory making Cambell's soup is just not going to have their workers get sick? That the cans they package it in don't come from China. You're just going to shut your doors and self quarantine without worry? Good luck with that.

    I'm reminded of people who have said, "I'll stay home and just have Walmart deliver what I need." You don't think that minimum wage DoorDash employee, who is delivering to dozens of people, not to mention interacting with all those who pack your stuff, isn't going to get sick? And when they do, good luck getting deliveries.

    We develop a deep pantry so that when shortages in the supply chain appear, from shortages of material but especially from disruptions in delivery then we can weather them.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 9:23pm

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    Misunderstood me

    mntnhousepermi, you misunderstood me, I was pointing out that he was doing exactly what he should do, tailor a plan for himself. Not get on him for doing so.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 9:38pm

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    Really kunga?

    The climate changes all through time when the underlying situation changes. Do you think that the way we live now will go on for all and all times. Its going to do the same this time. This virus will change the way we interact with our fellow humans. Are you implying it won't? Who needs to shave their head now.

    Clearly you don't have relatives who have health issues or physical issues who require help to do the day to day things people do. Hopefully you never have to deal with a parent who is being cared for at home. You think this virus gets out and established in the community, that $10 an hour health worker is going to show up to give them pills or change their diapers.

    I'm sure I misunderstand you in this, so I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt..

    I respect the comments you have said up til now and I'm going to chalk this conversation down to a misunderstanding typical of online chat, and go to bed until tomorrow.

    EDITED

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 10:12pm

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    I'm going to add one more thing

    You can squirm and wiggle and cry but I repeat: Stay home.  Your sister sounds like a big girl, ever heard of email or telephone?

    A few years ago my father was in a nursing home for Alzheimer's. Every morning after work, I would go visit with him, share breakfast and try to connect. It didn't happen much because by then he was pretty gone, still yes I would have braved a virus like this one to go there and visit.

    While my sister doesn't have any health issues that would require me to visit her everyday, like my father did, there a hundreds of thousands of people out there who do have such a situation. No we are not going to just close our doors and let them fend for themselves cause they are "big girls or boys".

    Few of us have the option to just self quarantine and let the rest just get by on their own. Its called friends and its called family.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 10:25pm

    ezlxq1949

    ezlxq1949

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Apr 29 2009

    Posts: 384

    Advice from Shenzen Hospital

    From a friend of a friend of a friend.

    Last evening dining out with friends, one of their uncles, who's graduated with a master's degree and who worked in Shenzhen Hospital (Guangdong Province, China) sent him the following notes on Coronavirus for guidance:

    1. If you have a runny nose and sputum, you have a common cold.
    2. Coronavirus pneumonia is a dry cough with no runny nose.
    3. This new virus is not heat-resistant and will be killed by a temperature of just 26/27 degrees. It hates the sun.
    4. If someone sneezes with it, it takes about 10 feet before it drops to the ground and is no longer airborne.
    5. If it drops on a metal surface it will live for at least 12 hours - so if you come into contact with any metal surface - wash your hands as soon as you can with a bacterial soap.
    6. On fabric it can survive for 6-12 hours. normal laundry detergent will kill it.
    7. Drinking warm water is effective for all viruses. Try not to drink liquids with ice.
    8. Wash your hands frequently as the virus can only live on your hands for 5-10 minutes, but - a lot can happen during that time - you can rub your eyes, pick your nose unwittingly and so on.
    9. You should also gargle as a prevention. A simple solution of salt in warm water will suffice.
    10. Can't emphasise enough - drink plenty of water!

    THE SYMPTOMS
    1. It will first infect the throat, so you'll have a sore throat lasting 3/4 days.
    2. The virus then blends into a nasal fluid that enters the trachea and then the lungs, causing pneumonia. This takes about 5/6 days further.
    3. With the pneumonia comes high fever and difficulty in breathing.
    4. The nasal congestion is not like the normal kind. You feel like you're drowning. It's imperative you then seek immediate attention.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 10:31pm

    ezlxq1949

    ezlxq1949

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Apr 29 2009

    Posts: 384

    Problem with temperature

    From the above post, if the virus is killed by temperatures of 26–27°, then how come it survives in the body at 37° ?

    The simplest way to destroy Covid-19 surely would be to heat whatever it's on or in to a mere 30° for half an hour.

    Temperature in Canberra today reached 30° and stayed there for a few hours. Quite pleasant. Allegedly the virus cannot survive in such an environment. I have yet to see anyone in any public place wearing a respirator or mask, with the exception of some of the apparently Chinese students around the ANU.

    What happens when winter comes? Maybe the virus will have been killed off by then. On verra, as the French say.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 10:34pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    The coronavirus pandemic and propaganda

    Expect coronavirus pandemic propaganda to be ratcheted-up in the US and other nations in the months ahead. Some of the big US themes were evident in the two Presidential press conferences earlier this week. These themes and talking points will be refined, packaged and rolled-out in a comprehensive communications plan that will be repeated ad nauseam by governmental and MSM talking heads. This messaging will become even more shrill as we get closer to election day. Whether in China or the US,  "rulers" will manipulate the messages and resources to save face (i.e. maintain control and power), rather than to save lives.

    A fairy tale ending: China’s battle against the epidemic transforms into political slogans

    https://www.hongkongfp.com/2020/03/01/fairy-tale-ending-chinas-battle-epidemic-transforms-political-slogans

    Now, whether US government officials can co-opt our medical and health care personnel in this propaganda effort remains to be seen. These front-line workers have been left hanging without timely, effective guidance and support, appropriate PPE, testing capabilities and other resources necessary to safely diagnose and care for Covid-2019 suspected/infected patients. As a result, many exposed US medical and health care workers will become infected with the coronavirus, and some will die.

    Today, 124 UC Davis medical and health care personnel exposed to an infected Covid-2019 patient are quarantined due primarily to federal incompetence, lack of consistent leadership and timely support.

    Will the WH, CDC and MSM make reluctant heroes out of these and countless other unfortunate workers whose lives are put needlessly at-risk? Propaganda from our federal spin doctors and MSM will not mitigate the spread and severity of this pandemic.

     

    Turning on the kitsch: doctors star in China’s coronavirus state propaganda

    https://www.hongkongfp.com/2020/02/29/turning-kitsch-doctors-star-chinas-coronavirus-state-propaganda/

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 10:38pm

    Nairobi

    Nairobi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 05 2020

    Posts: 289

    Masks are mostly a waste of time, money and effort

    I have been going through the same series of questions, yagasjai and then doing quite a bit of reading to sort through it all. The conclusion I have come to is that masks are pretty much a waste of time except in special circumstances. Even the much discussed N95 mask only screens out 95% of airborne virus droplets but only if its fitted perfectly. So you are still going to get exposure in crowded areas with sick people who are coughing.

    These things are hot to wear and make breathing a little bit uncomfortable. I bought a half face respirator with N100 filters and gave it a try experimentally and I do not like the thing. Even the N100 will not give complete protection against aerosolized virus particles since those particles are so tiny compared to what the mask is designed to protect you against. The literature says that virus particles get down to .005 microns which is much smaller than the masks fiber openings.

    You might just as well be wearing a spaghetti colander.

    To be honest I regret buying the thing since its basically useless in a dangerous setting like a hospital wait room but it could come in handy for welding, sanding and working with some chemicals and smokey environments. Probably the most important reason to own one is to make other people feel better when they know you are sick. It is very doubtful that any Western government would insist citizens wear masks in public.

    In the final analysis, it is my opinion that face-masks are not necessary in most situations since they do not give the kind of protection that most buyers believe they are getting. You are better off just avoiding high risk zones where virus particles are floating around while taking steps to keep your hands as clean as possible. Disposable gloves are actually much more important during cool months since there is a virtually certain risk of exposure to contaminated surfaces and it is a risk that we can avoid by good practices.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 10:40pm

    ezlxq1949

    ezlxq1949

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Apr 29 2009

    Posts: 384

    Another problem with temperature

    The virus is showing up in Singapore, but the mean daily maximum temperature there at this time of year is over 30°, and over the entire year is over 30°, more than enough to kill off this here virus.

    I don't understand.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 10:41pm

    nigel

    nigel

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Apr 15 2009

    Posts: 123

    Oats

    If the super markets are out of food find your nearest Ranch/Farm/Produce/Rural shop, the kind of place where farmers go to buy seed and hay and get tractor parts, and go in and buy 200 pounds of oat seeds. All you need is a coffee grinder to make oat flour, and a pasta maker/roller to make rolled oats.

    It's not a complete nutritional meal but you can use your existing supplies and oats to pad out your supply of food for a long time.

    Rye seeds can be done as well but I hate the taste of rye bread, Millet works as well. You are basically buying chicken/horse feed and or unprocessed rolled oats.

    The other exceptionally good thing about buying seeds is that if you are self isolating for a year or so, oats grow like a weed, it's not hard to plant those seeds and get a good harvest for yourself on small bit of land.

    You can either buy feed or seed oats, you probably want the feed ones not the seed ones as they will not have been coated with anything that promotes seed growth.

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 11:05pm

    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 19 2016

    Posts: 306

    great description of how the virus works in the body

    Alot of biology but written very accessable, which is good, because I'm not medical

    A worthwhile read

    https://www.stephenharrodbuhner.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/coronavirus.txt.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0agIt512xkQBev4l5IqkJnCi2xDNZPp48N1EbcbXGoLMTPqXUspF2Kdlc

     

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  • Sun, Mar 01, 2020 - 11:45pm

    TamHob

    TamHob

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 13 2020

    Posts: 39

    re another problem with temperature

    The guidelines probably refer to transmission via droplets or aerosols this falls pretty quickly to (effectively) zero at certain temperature/humidity combinations (you're probably still vulnerable if an unmasked person coughs right in your face) - see eg study cited in other comment threads https://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.0030151#ppat-0030151-g003. Other transmission pathways such as droplets on surfaces react differently to a given heat/humidity combination than airborne particles. Virus particles in the body are bathed in fluid, this protects them from normal body temperatures.

    People in tropical countries may spend quite a bit of time in air-conditioned environments which are too cool and dry to reduce aerosol and droplet spread much and are notorious for spreading pathogens. Also, there are the other transmission pathways.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 12:26am

    nickbert

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jan 14 2009

    Posts: 285

    Some places may REQUIRE masks in public

    I get how some people feel about wearing masks. I hate wearing mine when I go out. BUT... here in Ulaanbaatar, just like in some other places in Asia, wearing a mask is REQUIRED either by the stores or even to just be out in public. I was told more than a week ago that Mongolian gov't authorities are now fining anyone in public without a mask. I still see a few people without masks, but they are now very much in the minority at least in the city. At some point the gov't authorities in your neck of the woods may require masks in public as well.

    So while I think wearing a mask may offer at least a minimal level of protection, the primary reason I wear one is so I can get groceries on my weekly trip. Well, that and being a foreigner makes me stand out enough already, thank you very much... 😉

    BTW, at least for now after getting back home I (carefully) place my N95 mask on the window shelf in my office area (immediately wash my hands afterwards). It gets some sunlight each day and there's one of those thin, semi-transparent decorative curtains that separates the area where I sit from the window shelf the mask sits on. Not the ideal solution, perhaps, but since I go out only twice a week on average and there's no reported cases here yet I think it is good enough. If/when cases are reported here, I may switch to rotating between 3 or 4 masks.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 2:22am

    Nordic_Mist

    Nordic_Mist

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    Joined: Sep 15 2010

    Posts: 9

    Air Conditioning

    Singapore is pretty much fully air-conditioned 🙂

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 2:27am

    Nordic_Mist

    Nordic_Mist

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 15 2010

    Posts: 9

    Singapore Update

    In Singapore there is now only a trickle of new cases and the total number of active cases has fallen to 30. We're almost at the end of the virus outbreak but it'll probably take a month or two as there are bound to be a few more imported cases. China is also far past the peak and the number of daily infections is falling fast. Despite some new clusters around the world I still believe we are past the overall global peak and that this will all blow over by the summer with in the region of 5,000-7,500 deaths in total (out of a world population of 7.8 billion people!). The harm to the world economy due to the panic over the virus will of course be considerable. I could be wrong of course, I guess that time will show? 🙂

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 2:39am

    jmone

    jmone

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    Joined: Feb 28 2020

    Posts: 234

    jmone said:

    @Nordic_Mist  I think Singapore is the standout country for the control and treatment.... bar none.  Unfortunately, I don't think what Singapore has achieved will be replicated by other countries (see pic below of cases outside China):

     

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 2:53am

    brianwilliams82

    brianwilliams82

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    Joined: Nov 05 2018

    Posts: 15

    mask

    I wore my respirator on the bus/metro to work this morning, after the first 3 cases in the Czech Republic were confirmed yesterday afternoon.  FYI, they are:

    1. Male born 1952, was at a conference in Udine, Italy

    2. Female, nationality USA, born 1999, studies in Milan.

    3. Male, born 1976, was on a skiing holiday in northern Italy with his family.

    All 3 patients are apparently not in any kind of serious condition, but of course this number of 'confirmed' cases is just the tip of the iceberg.

     

    I can confirm that the mask is highly uncomfortable.  I pulled up my scarf over it but that just meant I looked a bit like a football hooligan and it also means your breaths out have nowhere to go.  Wearing glasses also isn't the most pleasant task with one of these masks, they seem to get steamed up quite easily (or else I didn't have a proper seal?)

     

    The overall response to the situation here is still quite lackadaisical.  It is a theme of conversation yet the overriding impression I get is still one of 'that kind of thing can't/won't happen here' and that 'something' will come along to save the day.  I believe it will start to hit home when/if further towns/regions in Europe start being quarantined, which is looking more and more likely now.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 2:54am

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

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    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    NY confirms first Covid-2019 case

    New York governor confirms first coronavirus case in state

    "Cuomo said the patient is a woman in her 30s who contracted the virus while traveling abroad in Iran. He said the woman is in quarantine in her home."

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-health-usa-new-york/new-york-state-confirms-first-coronavirus-case-governor-cuomo-idUSKBN20P037

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 3:40am

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2135

    singapore updates

    NordicMist-

    So, Singapore has a first rate system, and was all over this as soon as it happened.  It furthermore imposed a travel ban, brushing aside China's attempts to soft-power them into continuing to import cases.

    Contrast that with Iran.  And the rest of the third world.  They don't have the first, and didn't do the second.  My math says Iran has 15,000 cases - most optimistically - based on the number of deaths they've confirmed.  At a doubling time of 5 days, in a month they'll have half a million cases.

    [Iran is an interesting study; a surprising number of their top people have been infected.  That suggests high level contact with infected high level people from China.  Do we think China notified Iran of the issue?  I suspect not.  They'd lose face if they did that.  How do you imagine that is going over in Iran's elite circles?  The infection of a chunk of Iran's elite is also probably why it was actually detected.  I digress.]

    What about Africa?  Everywhere there are expat Chinese workers on all those "Belt & Road" projects, you can expect cases to appear, undetected by the non-existent healthcare in those countries.  Think China is talking about that?  I'm guessing, no.

    Iran is not Singapore.  Neither is the rest of the third world.

    I think figuring this out is maybe a month away.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 4:02am

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    Solid Advice To Businesses and to People

    Techcrunch has good advice for those in business.

    How to work during a pandemic

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 4:03am

    ddelong

    ddelong

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 20 2015

    Posts: 35

    Amazon Shortages

    I received an e-mail yesterday about my monthly subscribe and save shipment from Amazon.  Several of the items are out of stock and they could not give a date when they would become available.  These were mostly some herbal supplements and vitamins which I have a good reserve of and could possibly get locally.

    On another note, I'm thinking of starting a couple veg plants now that I can grow inside.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 4:07am

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    FDA Finally Getting Their Heads Out Of Their...

    The U.S. Food and Drug Administration said today that it would allow new diagnostics technologies to be used to test for the novel coronavirus, COVID-19, at elite academic hospitals and healthcare facilities around the country.

    The agency’s new initiative comes as critics have assailed various U.S. government agencies for being woefully underprepared to effectively address the spread of the novel coronavirus in the country despite being aware of the potential risks the virus posed since the first cases were reported in Wuhan, China in early December.

    FDA allows new diagnostic technologies to test for coronavirus before receiving emergency approvals

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 4:28am

    gyurash

    gyurash

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    Joined: Sep 07 2016

    Posts: 46

    Water troughs

    These are about the right size and shape to be water troughs for cattle.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 4:36am

    jtwalsh

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Oct 01 2008

    Posts: 267

    The Virus Arrives Day 2

    Virus Arrives Day 2

    Test results have revealed a second (still presumptive?) case of covid 19 virus among the members of a group of Rhode Islanders recently returned from a school trip to Europe. This person is a teenager. A third person from the trip, who is said to be on staff, at a second high school is being tested. Both schools are closed today and tomorrow for “cleaning”. One of these schools is three miles from my house and was attended by one of my sons a number of years ago.

    A Brown University professor recently returned from a conference in Europe has been ill since his return. He knows from the news that two of the presenters at the conference have tested positive. He sat next to one of the presenters during a session. He has been attempting to get tested. His doctor says that since the conference was not in Italy the professor does not fit the criteria for testing. No test will be provided. The professor also said he has had conversation with a colleague in Switzerland who was at the same conference and who was tested upon telling his doctor about his travels.

    These events are reported on the Providence Journal website.  https://www.providencejournal.com/news/20200301/update-2-have-now-tested-positive-for-coronavirus-after-saint-raphael-academy-field-trip-to-europe-students-chaperones-on-trip-quarantined

    A concerned parent posted a question on my granddaughter’s public elementary school site demanding to know what, if any, steps the school has taken to protect students. He was seriously considering removing his child from school as of now. A concerned PTO member responded by saying the CDC and state department of health have issued guidelines and that the parent should not be such an alarmist.

    This is happening in a state which, although the smallest in the union, can’t get the potholes filled in spring, has been cited for having the worse infrastructure in the nation and where a number of urban school districts are in total shambles. I am not optimistic about the state government’s ability to handle any of this.

    JT

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 4:48am

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    Censorship: Health officials, social media teaming up to fight coronavirus "Infodemic"

    Sparky1 comment:  'Gotta protect us "vulnerable populations" from an "overabundance of information" and "anti-science messages" that create "rumors" or "panic" or "confusion about where accurate information can be found" concerning the novel coronavirus. Here all this time I thought the WHO, CDC and other "trustworthy" health officials were supposed to be fighting the coronavirus "emergency" (aka, pandemic).

    How health officials and social media are teaming up to fight the coronavirus 'infodemic'

    Excerpts:

    "The WHO defines an infodemic as "an overabundance of information — some accurate and some not — that makes it hard for people to find trustworthy sources and reliable guidance when they need it." The problem is aided by the ease and speed with which false or misleading information can spread on social media."

    "In an effort to help people sort through the sometimes overwhelming amount of information online, Kuzmanovic said the organization is working directly with social media companies to ensure users are directed to trusted sources. Now, when social media users on a number of platforms, including Facebook, Twitter and Instagram, search for "coronavirus," they are directed first to information from either the WHO, the Centers for Disease Control or their national health ministry."

    [Seema Yasmin, director of the Stanford Health Communication Initiative and a former officer with the Centers for Disease Control's Epidemic Intelligence Service]
    "We've seen the spread of rumors and anti-science messages during Ebola, during Zika," Yasmin said....the anti-science messages are sophisticated, targeting vulnerable populations and really tailoring anti-science messages to groups that believe them."

    "Yasmin urged news organizations to put resources toward doing health and science journalism and encouraged health officials to be proactive in fighting the ongoing issue of health misinformation online."

    "Some social media platforms have independently taken further steps to curb misinformation and panic surrounding coronavirus."

    "Facebook (FB) said several weeks ago it would remove content with bogus cures or other false claims about coronavirus or posts that could create confusion about where accurate information can be found. "

    "The company will "remove content with false claims or conspiracy theories that have been flagged by leading global health organizations and local health authorities that could cause harm to people who believe them," Kang-Xing Jin, Facebook's head of health, said in a blog post...."

    "Last week, a Facebook spokesperson told CNN Business that the platform is working with its fact-checking partners to debunk false claims about the virus. Once Facebook posts and links are fact-checked and found to be false, the spokesperson said, the platform "dramatically" cuts their distribution. People who see this content, try to share it, or already have, are alerted that it's false."

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/01/tech/coronavirus-social-media-reliable-sources/index.html

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 5:30am

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 2410

    Singapore vs the rest of the world

    My limited understanding is that Singapore took active public health efforts to stop the spread of the virus, starting at the earliest stages.

    1.  Testing the sick to aggressively to identify and quarantined the infected.

    2.  Liberal testing policy to identify asymptomatic and minimally sick--the "engines of transmission."

    3.  Reduced group gatherings early.

    4.  Gave citizens accurate information.

    5.  Asked citizens to voluntarily participate in disrupting contagion.

    They halted their societies function in order to stop contagion.

    ---------------------

    Contrast this with the USA and much of the rest of the world where

    1.  Hospitals and Public Health Authorities apply overly restrictive protocols to refuse testing those already sick with viral respiratory illness unless they meet strict inclusion criteria that are already widely understood to be inadequate.  (Travel to Wuhan, known exposure to already diagnosed person, 14 day time limit, other respiratory virus and flu tests must first be negative).

    2.  Refusal of the public health department to test the asymptomatic who are the unknowing engines of transmission.  ("you do not meet criteria for testing.")

    3.  Refusal to test the minimally ill, who request testing, who do not meet limited criteria.

    4.  Discouraging used of protective masks even though both COVID infection mechanisms (fomite and aerosol) involve entry to the body through the nose and mouth.

    5.  Not interrupting public gatherings / transportation where most contagion occurs.

    6.  Use of "happy-talk" by officials to keep the public believing that the risk level is very low.  (just the flu, keep calm and wash your hands)

    7.  Gave falsely low statistics to the public to give the appearance of low risk level.

    This approach is guaranteed to grow the pandemic. And guaranteed to leave the public unprepared.

    Is this obvious to everyone?

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 5:51am

    VeganDB12

    VeganDB12

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jul 18 2008

    Posts: 226

    absolutely SP

    The game plan has been the exact opposite of containment. Even our own local mayor told people not to worry about touching surfaces on the train (big city mayor).  Why they would facilitate widespread contagion is hard to understand, but I really think it is as simple and sad as many here have said-to protect the markets long enough to achieve certain ends.  Even Ebola got better coverage and advice to people in my area. Now the health systems are in a state of denial too.  That to me is frustrating because I get no support for taking protective measures in my own situation and get treated like Henny Penny by normally heroic men and women in denial.   The messaging has worked but a bit too well.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 6:18am

    Susan7

    Susan7

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    Joined: Feb 15 2020

    Posts: 63

    No, they are vault liners.

    These are long enough to accommodate a coffin, whereas most troughs are shorter and rounded. Both burial liners and troughs can be plastic but often the latter are galvanized metal. It’s not surprising that FEMA would have a stock of liners for use in a disaster. It actually shows some good planning, as liners are necessary in some parts of the country. Now if only the CDC had had as much foresight.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 6:18am

    Tom Sammy

    Tom Sammy

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 30 2020

    Posts: 135

    NY ER doctor sums up Testing Problems in US

    Frustrated ER doctor at big NY Hospital: McCarthy, a staff physician at New York-Presbyterian Hospital, says he still does not have access to Coronavirus test kits. “I’m here to tell you, right now, at one of the busiest hospitals in the country, I don’t have it at my finger tips,” he said. “I still have to make my case, plead to test people. ***This is not good. We know that there are 88 cases in the United States. There are going to be hundreds by middle of week. There’s going to be thousands by next week. **** And this is a testing issue.”

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/02/coronavirus-new-york-city-doctor-has-to-plead-to-test-people.html

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 6:29am

    Cj Sloane

    Cj Sloane

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 19 2020

    Posts: 30

    Fasting

    Here's a link to a study suggesting fasting can help with cytokines. https://www.hindawi.com/journals/mi/2016/1698071/

    I fast most Wednesdays as it helps maintain/lose weight and resets my hunger signals. Anywhere from 18-36 hours. I'm not super strict as I drink coffee/broth but when I feel the need to be strict I take a caffeine pill.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 7:05am

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 701

    dT - YOU CLEARLY DIDNT READ

    Your reply makes no sense - its like it was not referring to my post. WHere do you see I am sitting waiting for a sick delivery man to deliver my things - thinking that amazon and walmart will magically have stuff? I didnt say anything to that effect at all - not even close. What I said , is food stocks are on shelves , there is more on the way. as the way the govt is now handling it evne if people are sick they are still producing. I never said the items at the store are free of infection. I said the exact opposite. you will need to go our and get provisions with ppe after this next week , I believe. As for deep pantry i have at least 1 year of food for my fmaily of 3 plus indoor garden. plus generator , plus uvc and ozone. But the point is while there are still stocks on the shelves , i will not start to consume my provisions.. that time will still come.. - you need to weigh the risk of getting ill with starting to consume your provisions- no one said anything about waiting for walmart to magically bring things when no one is left to work.. I am not sure what prejudice you read with.. but the reply made zero sense to my post

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 7:08am

    stanford73

    stanford73

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    Joined: Mar 02 2020

    Posts: 1

    stanford73 said:

    I agree you need to be checked. Since you recently traveled, your symptoms sound a lot like a possible blood clot. Don't wait.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 7:08am

    DisappearingCulture

    DisappearingCulture

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jun 21 2014

    Posts: 55

    Four states report more COVID-19 cases; silent Washington spread suspected

    http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/03/four-states-report-more-covid-19-cases-silent-washington-spread-suspected

     

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 7:21am

    HSRS

    HSRS

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 13 2020

    Posts: 5

    Heat to kill virus - your clothes dryer!

    How about tossing masks, clothes, shoes, etc. into the clothes dryer on high heat? Wouldn't that kill off the virus, easy peasy?

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 7:21am

    Helix

    Helix

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 20 2008

    Posts: 79

    Helix said:

    "They really believe they stopped a pandemic. They still really only think there are 60 cases in the US."

    I have a hard time thinking they're this stupid.  I think it's more likely that they've concluded the health of corporations and of the stock market is more important than the health of the people.  So the game plan is to black out news of the progression of the pandemic, giving the people a false impression that this is a minor problem and they should continue with business-as-usual.

    The ultimate price of this policy could be a 2,000,000+ deaths, but it appears to me they view this is as an acceptable loss -- just the price that must be paid to maintain stock prices and economic activity.   The number of deaths can be suppressed just as easily as can information about the spread of the disease.  It will be up to historians to try to establish the true extent of the pandemic, at least here in the US.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 7:22am

    anazuzo

    anazuzo

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jul 01 2015

    Posts: 4

    UV sanitization of masks

    Regarding UV sanitization of masks - here are a few links to papers on the subject.  I am using a UV light sanitizer to zap the contents of my purse (keys, glasses, cash, credit cards, etc.) and will zap masks if no other option...

    UV sanitization of N95 mask – study of effectiveness

    https://www.ajicjournal.org/article/S0196-6553(18)30140-8/pdf

    UV sanitization of rooms

    https://scienceblogs.com/effectmeasure/2007/04/10/masks-and-uv-light

     

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 7:35am

    catherder

    catherder

    Status: Member

    Joined: Nov 17 2010

    Posts: 18

    Here's a link to a useful discussion about these things

    https://www.metabunk.org/threads/debunked-fema-coffins-plastic-grave-liners.904/

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 7:36am

    Helix

    Helix

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 20 2008

    Posts: 79

    Helix said:

    This approach is guaranteed to grow the pandemic. And guaranteed to leave the public unprepared.

    Is this obvious to everyone?

    No, it's not obvious to everyone.  That's the whole point of the approach they're taking.  It's the "ignorance is bliss" strategy.  Sure, many more people will suffer and die, but the economic impact will be less if people can be lulled into a false sense of security and continue with business-as-usual, at least in the short run.   Trump & Co. are betting they can just bullshit their way through this like they have many times before, which they can only do if hard news about the spread of the virus and its mortality is suppressed.

    In the end, it's just a business decision.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 7:54am

    MarkM

    MarkM

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jul 22 2008

    Posts: 421

    Government ineptitude

    Boggles the mind.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/cdc-accidentally-releases-diamond-princess-evacuee-who-tested-positive-virus

     

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 8:02am

    km64

    km64

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 88

    What we are seeing here is SUPPLY LINE DISRUPTION

    Factories not producing stuff the rest of the world uses and people not getting out to use transportation.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8059385/Amazing-NASA-images-pollution-CLEARED-China.html

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 8:03am

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 701

    Class action suit against google , facebook and social media

    I believe the above are culpable in causing grave harm and death to americans. It is clear that they censored media - that should be available to our public as granted by law. They have no responsibility to warrant their services, but when extra steps are taken to eliminate information people need that causes harm and death, because they think there are some scammers - which there are, but people are smart and can decide for themselves what they want to take as fact.. I do believe these companies have harmed americans - the people have grown dependent on their services to be informed and communicate with others. these services were disrupted for intents that were only to harm and cause loss to their users with no real legal need or requirement or per any terms of agreement with the their users.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 8:22am

    Susan7

    Susan7

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 15 2020

    Posts: 63

    Coffins, no.

    Liners yes. Seems the article confirms this. I have a wee bit of knowledge here since I recently planned my burial. Liners are a legal requirement in most places to prevent ground shift. In my area they are concrete.  I’d say this topic is done. But off topic, if the virus is slowing considerably in Wuhan why did I read recently that they are building 19 more “hospitals” for the infected? We’ve learned to watch what they do and not what they say, right? Something’s not adding up.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 8:22am

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1045

    And

    This approach is guaranteed to grow the pandemic. And guaranteed to leave the public unprepared.

    Is this obvious to everyone?

    No, it’s not obvious to everyone.  That’s why they’re taking this approach.  It’s the “ignorance is bliss” strategy.  Sure, many more people will suffer and die, but the economic impact will be less if people can be lulled into a false sense of security, at least in the short run.   Trump & Co. are betting they can just bullshit their way through this like they have many times before.  It’s a business decision.

    And perhaps a political decision.  Anyone care to wager/speculate the political hysteria over postponing the election.  That would not be possible in a, life is normal, society.

    Lastly, you are forgetting that you and your family are commodities.  You should not question, complain or second guess.  Remember censoring is for your benefit so you will seek out the “approved” narrative.  Your obedience is demanded your consent is not necessary.  Trust don’t verify.

     

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 8:26am

    Bruno

    Bruno

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 9

    Gyurash

     
    Water troughs don't have lids, and who stock piles 500,000 of them?

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 8:31am

    Bruno

    Bruno

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 9

    Lesphelps

    I think it's the opposite, I believe it lives longer on hard surfaces.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 8:32am

    Alexis

    Alexis

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 26 2020

    Posts: 65

    Singapore and testing in Iran

    I echo sandman's comparison in US v Singapore. This virus needed early detection to stop asymptomatic transmission. The worlds economies were held in higher value than peoples lives so we will have huge outbreaks in US vs Singapore. I have talked my husband into staying home now, regardless of the difficulties or repercussions that may bring. We are in Houston, Tx with a huge 4 week long rodeo currently just beginning. It is like a massive fair with food, rides and a concert every night for 4 weeks and lots of public restrooms (the big green kind). TONS of people daily. The massive explosion we will see here in 4 weeks will be insane. I do believe medical martial law will be instituted when needed, it will be impossible for the govt to manage with the level of sick and chaos that will ensue in these large cities with very govt dependent people.

    Iran: there was aleaked video on twitter showing a doctor discussing patient images. The doctor described the lungs as "bleeding" whereas previously we all know its been discussed as inflammation, groun glass opacities etc... The doctor said there were 594 cases with similar images and he said they all needed to be admitted to the hospital. He said testing was a problem, partially due to sampling error (need back of throat swabs vs side of mouth and tongue). I have been reviewing all the case studies I can find, and maybe I missed, but I have not seen "bleeding" mentioned previously in review of the lung images. I did screen shot the entire video which had subtitles so maybe there was an interpretation difference.

    But, for doctors in the states... Abnormal chest imaging with w/wo lymphopenia seem to be the early "symptoms" in the case studies... then comes the dry cough and fever, fever is listed as 100.4 which must USA clinicians will rule out due to not being >101.

    Censoring: my usual Dr John Campbell on YouTube is eerily absent today. I have been waking up to his videos daily since early on in February. Very odd.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 8:33am

    Ision

    Ision

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 07 2020

    Posts: 125

    Neutralizing SARS-CoV-2 Virus With Heat

    It seems many people here are misinformed about the heat requited to kill the coronavirus pathogen, as they are failing to note the difference between Fahrenheit and Celsius scales.

    If you think 86 Fahrenheit will neutralize the coronavirus, think again.  Do you cook your chicken to an internal temperature of 86 F degrees?   I didn't think so.

    One should apply at least 186.5 F degrees for 10 minutes in order to neutralize this virus.

    If you wish to neutralize the possible virus upon a used mask, which is still moist from your breath, you CAN use your microwave oven, which will act to dry the mask...and as it does...also vibrate certain molecules within a virus, which will cause it to inactivate it.  The hot water vapor released by microwaving a moist mask, will also reduce the ability of the virus to transmit its internal heat, caused by the microwaves, to the fibers of the mask, upon which it is stuck.

    No need to saturate the mask with water...it can just be damp.

    While this is not the approved way to sterilize a mask, which most authorities simply tell you to toss after one use...it will definitely result in "cleaner" mask.

    You see, the standard frequency of the home microwave will neutralize a virus, IF the virus cannot shed its internal heat build up to the surface it is in contact with.  So, floating virus can be killed, and virus with only slight contact with a surface can be killed, and a virus..which is in solid contact with a surface can be killed...IF the surface is hot enough to disallow heat dissipation from the hot virus.  So, the steam, at plus 186.5 degrees, aids to remove thermal insulation for the virus.

    One can also place used masks in a PRESSURE COOKER, on your stove.  This autoclave for the home will provide both the required pressure and heat needed to kill the virus completely.  A PRESSURE CANNING pot is ideal.  Place the mask inside a quart size canning jar, seal..and put them in the canning pot.  Pressure cook at 10-15 psi for about 10 minutes...done.  The jar, when cooled, will contain a sterile mask in a sealed vacuum.  The canning jar may then be handled safely, and reused.

     

     

     

     

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 8:35am

    Alexis

    Alexis

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 26 2020

    Posts: 65

    Cold/ FLu meds

    I keep meaning to say this:

    I am very weary of utilizing Tylenol cold and flu products for this virus. I keep seeing eleavated AST/ ALT/ Total Bili in the case studies, not sure if that is side effects of meds or otherwise. I will be letting fever ride and using non-pharm methods and increasing hydration to offset fever in my crew. Considering adding milk thistle to the line up just in case but something to note about Tylenols effects on liver.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 8:56am

    Mike Anderson

    Mike Anderson

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    Joined: Nov 25 2019

    Posts: 9

    Costa Rica -- your symptoms match

    The symptoms you describe match the mystery not-flu illness that led my friend in Washington State to be put on a ventilator.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 9:05am

    Ision

    Ision

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    Joined: Feb 07 2020

    Posts: 125

    Since they cannot stop it, a government lies to help balance the impact.

    If you know a new pandemic will likely infect 70% of Americans over the course of its run, and the 20% of those infected will need hospitalization...and 3% of these hospitalized patients will probably die.  And, you know the "cured" are still shedding virus and are still subject to re-infection, or new infection by another virus, or bacteria.   You may safely assume your medical resources will be completely overwhelmed, the death rate will drastically climb, and social paralysis will ensue...as people isolate themselves, refuse to go to work, and the economy shuts down.

    So, in order to cause less of a disruption for a pandemic which cannot be guarded against, the government begins to censor and lie to the lay public..so society glides into the disaster as best it can...instead of flying directly into a mountain.

    The most highly armed citizenry on Earth, whose members include some pretty uneducated and emotionally unstable people, have to be managed, as best it may be managed,...to try and reduce social chaos.   It may seem outrageous, but lies, meant to calm, are also meant to save lives from threats other than viral pneumonia.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 9:12am

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 2410

    More test kits being made-1-2 weeks

    Maybe some of my disgust at the refusal to test is misplaced.

    Scott Gottlieb, MD, on Face the Nation yesterday says an alliance of academic centers and industry should have 10,000 kits / day available by the end of next week.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/transcript-scott-gottlieb-on-face-the-nation-march-1-2020/?fbclid=IwAR1PBx9a6h6HnLFxllGyjaYAUVRtLPU5Km-mnYFQ88ocyTLfCxswpAcernk

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 9:12am

    dragonfly

    dragonfly

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    Joined: Feb 27 2020

    Posts: 6

    Homemade Hand Sanitizer

    Several people mentioned a run on hand sanitizer.   I ran across this article on how to make your own.   Seems like a pretty good cottage industry at the moment.

    https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/2020/03/coronavirus-prevention-how-to-make-hand-sanitizer-at-home.html

    Dragonfly

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 9:18am

    Helix

    Helix

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    Joined: Sep 20 2008

    Posts: 79

    Helix said:

    Anyone care to wager/speculate the political hysteria over postponing the election.  That would not be possible in a, life is normal, society.

    I don't think this will happen.  Basically, Trump is a New York bullshit artist and a businessman.  The health of businesses is his first priority, which to my mind explains the behavior of his administration.  All its actions are designed to prevent the circulation of worrisome information and promote the view that this is a minor problem that shouldn't stop anyone from going to work, buying stuff, and engaging in the full range of economic activities.

    Lastly, you are forgetting that you and your family are commodities.

    Well, no, I never forget that.  I had the dubious distinction of attending college with the scions of the masters of the universe and am fully aware of their view of the rest of us.  We're either useful to them, in which case there's the basis of a business relationship, or we're not, in which case we're cattle to be exploited by their business ventures during our consuming years (buying houses and stuff, funding health care plans, sending our kids to college, etc.) and then slaughtered once we're past that stage.  Since the corona virus is fatal mainly to older people and those who have existing medical issues, they may even look upon it as a good thing.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 9:22am

    Ision

    Ision

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    Joined: Feb 07 2020

    Posts: 125

    HOW Hot Does It Get Inside A Clothes Dryer?

    If the environment inside your dryer has a temperature of greater than 186 F degrees and exposes the virus to this for at least 10 minutes...it should be effective, at least to some beneficial degree, I would think.  But, there are so many variables...

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 9:24am

    Alexis

    Alexis

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    Joined: Jan 26 2020

    Posts: 65

    youtube censored

    OK- 3 of my daily channels to review CV info haven't posted anything since last night. They all post several times a day. I just looked at each one. Nothing. DEF censoring. I tried to even search for virus, COVID, CV nothing USA comes up that is not an official channel. Except for shrimp zoo and he just regurgitates stuff but some of his is overinflated bc he says things that that I know I read and he is doubling numbers etc.

    SO- will Chris be able to upload a video today?? I have concerns. I am going to move to patreon and see if I can find them there.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 9:28am

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1045

    Thanks - but its is still bullshit!

    Ision, thank you for commenting.  Yes we get it.  Unfortunately, TPTB, get to prepare, live in gated communities with armed guards and play god.

    So, in order to cause less of a disruption for a pandemic which cannot be guarded against, the government begins to censor and lie to the lay public..so society glides into the disaster as best it can…instead of flying directly into a mountain.

    The most highly armed citizenry on Earth, whose members include some pretty uneducated and emotionally unstable people, have to be managed, as best it may be managed,…to try and reduce social chaos.   It may seem outrageous, but lies, meant to calm, are also meant to save lives from threats other than viral pneumonia

    Sorry but thats bullshit, in my opinion. The lives that are saved are not Mr. & Mrs. Middle and Poor Class its the rich and powerful.  I am uneducated and emotional.  Why should I not be I know we, (lots of good people) are being sacrificed.

    This reminds me of the quote - loosely  “all it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing” Those in power had a chance to do the right thing and help people glide into the future.  Instead they put the plane on autopilot and aimed it toward the mountain.  And we wonder why our future looks bleak.

    I pray there is Karma for those who orchestrated this.

     

     

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 9:36am

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    Moving Forward

    Nordicjack, lets just say it was a long night for me and perhaps I miss read your opinions, and leave it at that.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 9:37am

    samiam15063

    samiam15063

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 02 2020

    Posts: 2

    Iran Health Minister update

    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/03/a-top-iranian-government-official-has-died-of-coronavirus.html

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 9:37am

    Nairobi

    Nairobi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 05 2020

    Posts: 289

    Were they conspiracy sites?

    What are the name of the missing sites Alexis. If its conspiracy stuff then yes, it may have been scrubbed. Not all sites are like this one. Youtube is free to remove any content they choose from now on. It is their right according to the law. I actually wrote about this the other day and had three people disagree with me about it. They did not appear to understand that prior to February 27th there was no definitive legal decision on the rights of private sites such as this. That all changed when a precedent setting case came down in the Ninth Circuit court with regards to content and the rights of the owners of sites to host content. As a result, Twitter, Youtube, Facebook, Reddit and so many others are no longer in fear of exercising the rights given to them by the courts and they can purify to their hearts content. It will now take a supreme court challenge to overrule them (if you could even be heard there).

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 9:41am

    Myrto Ashe

    Myrto Ashe

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    Joined: Jan 25 2010

    Posts: 92

    Given censorship, make your own choices what to read

    In the last year, there has been widespread censorship of alternative medicine opinions. I understand that these are often not well-studied (for reasons related to who funds research sometimes). Having practiced medicine in the conventional system for 20 years, and now in the alternative system for 10 years, I have what I believe to be a thoughtful opinion on the matter.

    One of the sources that is sometimes helpful, sometimes "out there" is GreenMedInfo. Last year they were "deplatformed" by Mailchimp (a CDC partner that can't "say" certain things) and had to go to Ontraport, which had fewer restrictions.

    So, it's one source you can consider reading. Definitely not gospel, but right now they are reporting that there are 3 randomized controlled trials of IV vitamin C going on in China, that we are not hearing about.

    In JAMA article last fall, IV vitamin C was found not helpful (and not harmful) for ARDS. But vitamin studies are often strangely inadequate so perhaps that conclusion was premature.

    My basic point is that internet sources can be censored, and newsletters can be censored too, as is Facebook and others. One way around them may be newsletter platforms devoted to diversity of opinions (misinformation will be present, disinformation hopefully not). Emails can be censored too, especially the ubiquitous gmail addresses which are Google.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 9:48am

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    One person's experience with Covid19

    The guardian has a first hand account of what getting and recovering from the virus feels like:

    ‘To hell and back’: my three weeks suffering from coronavirus

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 9:48am

    Myrto Ashe

    Myrto Ashe

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 25 2010

    Posts: 92

    Refusal vs. inability to test

    The way things played out, with the CDC holding on to the exclusive right to test while their tests failed (accused of their lab being contaminated by respectable scientists) was so incredibly shocking to me that I would rather hope it was intentional.

    There is no excuse for the FDA taking 3 weeks to approve outside labs. I really actually don't believe anyone is that inept. Scott Gottlieb made himself hoarse saying the FDA should approve outside labs. I bet he knows why they didn't (but isn't telling). His twitter feed alternates between official empty congratuations (yay! the FDA approved outside labs) and intelligent criticism (we lost 3 weeks which means 3+ doubling times).

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 9:49am

    chewbacca

    chewbacca

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 10 2020

    Posts: 15

    three things I'd like to emphasize

    Hello from Ontario Canada. No over shopping in my city yet, no shortages I've noticed. Little concern among colleagues as of yet. My stocking has proceeded apace now for about two weeks.

    Second, MSM and other people keep referring to death rates in Wuhan as some kind of standard morbidity. Remember those videos showing authorities boarding up apartments, even entire buildings? Do you think anyone has bothered to venture back into those units to see if residents are still alive? Point being, we will NEVER know true extent of death rates in wuhan. Just like no one knows how many actually died in the famines in North Korea during the 1980s. Perhaps in the latter case as many as 4 million dead. In the former, perhaps tens and maybe hundreds of thousands?

    Last, When the health care system fails, the deaths will increase. The flu has not in recent memory overloaded the system. As pp has said many times  this is not the flu.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 9:53am

    Ision

    Ision

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    Joined: Feb 07 2020

    Posts: 125

    Virus Size

    The SARS-CoV-2 virus is .125 microns, or 124 nano-meters, in size.  The N95 will filter .3 microns, or 300 nano-meters, which is larger, by far, than a single virus.  However, a perfectly clean, free floating, virus...drifting about...is simply not found, as they are always found as part of a larger particle...even in aerosol form.

    If you want 100% protection, get a space suit.  Otherwise, not using ANY protection, because it is not perfect, is silly.

    Besides, it is for the infected to be masked to limit their ability to contaminate.  But, have you EVER been sick with a clogged lung and coughed up all sorts of wonderful, icky, things?  Ever imagine what spewing the inside of a mask with blobs of mucus is like?  Wonder WHY the sick people, who are wearing masks, suddenly pull them away from their faces AS they sneeze and cough?   As one coats the inside of their mask with sputum, it decreases the surface area of the mask capable of allowing the passage of air...and they become more and more uncomfortable to wear.

    There is no need to wear a mask to prevent illness while in isolation, or wandering about your home and property...as long as other people are not about.  A guy on his ranch need not use a mask to feed the horses, etc.

    For the un-sick, masks should only be used to reduce the chance of infection, just like disposable gloves and face shields, only when going into a probable contaminated place, like a hospital clinic.

    I was just in a supermarket, where people were filling their carts, and I was not wearing a mask.  Several people in the store could be heard making a productive cough, and they took no action to cover their mouths, or cough into their inside elbow.  I immediately regretted not having a mask as some sort of buffer from these idiots..and decided my shopping was done!

     

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 10:07am

    km64

    km64

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    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 88

    no excuse for the FDA taking 3 weeks to approve outside labs

    You mean besides the regular red-tape everything associated with the government has to go through to get anything done.

    So, let's say they fast track approval, and approve an outside lab to make this, one of them screws up and their tests show more false negatives than acceptable.

    Is that a risk you want being taken?

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 10:08am

    Dogs_In_A_Pile

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Jan 04 2009

    Posts: 824

    Best joke I've read all day

    "...but people are smart and can decide for themselves what they want to take as fact..."

    Lolololololbahahahahahahahahahaha....

    What incarnation of Facebook and social media are you referring too?  Spend a little time poking around the anti-vaxx pages and read some of the posts from "The Four Karens of the Apocalypse"

    It's more like Tinder for Idiots.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 10:09am

    km64

    km64

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 88

    Where are the tests going? - A CLUE

    Wonder what proportion of available tests are going to places where this is currently hitting hard?

    https://pluralist.com/military-coronavirus-vaccine/

    Protective gear and test kits are being distributed to U.S. military facilities with a priority on distribution to the Korean Peninsula, Milley said. South Korea reported 599 new cases on Monday, taking its national tally to 4,335. There have been 26 deaths.

     

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 10:11am

    chewbacca

    chewbacca

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 10 2020

    Posts: 15

    Islamic culture as well

    Muslims praying in the mosque will be shoulder to shoulder praying. The shiite tradition of kissing relics has continued unabated. This close physical contact, and then leaving it up to Allah to protect us or not inshallah, create a a perfect storm.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 10:13am

    kunga

    kunga

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 361

    Dr. Tedros

    Zero Hedge has an article with an imbeded picture of Dr. T giving the Bolton, Hu Jintao masonic club signal.  Touching side of glasses with thumb and middle finger.  These people worship "The Great Architect of the Universe" GAOU, not the CREATOR of the Universe.  Your good intentions will be used against you.  The road to hell is paved with them.  Be aware...be aware...

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 10:14am

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1045

    Dancing

    I went out dancing with a grown daughter and a group of friends.  The people in the bars and night clubs were drinking and having fun.  There were some scary looking people in these places.  It was tolerable when they were tipsy and happy but when they are united and pissed it will be a different story.

    A new normal cometh.... and I am not looking forward to it.  Perhaps the motto should be .. the post virus world, where the strong stumble and the weak die.

    But hey, we are not paranoid, just better informed!

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 10:16am

    Nairobi

    Nairobi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 05 2020

    Posts: 289

    Best practice is to stay away from sick people

    The 95 in N95 means the mask is only expected to filter 95% of particles for the mesh size which tells us a lot more than 5% is likely to pass through when virus particles are so much smaller than the screening. I have no idea how to count how many particles and I also don't know how many will make you sick but I did see that the Chinese produced statistics showing 15% of all health care workers had become critically ill while a much higher percentage were infected. Well 15% is the same as the average population telling me that those who had the benefit of high quality masks (and gowns and glasses) did no better than those who were either modestly protected or not protected at all. In other words, they are a waste of time. What we need to do is avoid sick people altogether and stay out of risky environments while practicing good hand sanitation. And that by coincidence is exactly what the CDC has been saying. Maybe they are not so crazy after all?

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 10:19am

    km64

    km64

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 88

    Even worse behavior in Iran...

    Hmmm, maybe this is just natures way of sorting out the clean versus the un-clean?  And I mean solely, those who can practice sound hygiene/sanitation and those who don't.

    I recall growing up that there would be a chalice at communion, but when I re-entered the church several years ago, it was individual cups.

     

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/03/this-isnt-helping-devout-iranians-lick-shia-shrine-in-iran-to-prove-their-faith-can-beat-the-coronavirus-videos/

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 10:25am

    km64

    km64

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 88

    km64 said:

    Interesting, I hadn't read about this before... Sept 19th 2019

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-modernizing-influenza-vaccines-united-states-promote-national-security-public-health/

    Saw it in this article, where I learned something new...

    https://thefederalist.com/2020/03/02/heres-how-to-prepare-if-the-coronavirus-comes-to-a-quarantine/

    The word “quarantine,” from the phrase “40 days” in Italian, referred to the 14th-century practice of requiring ships arriving in Venice from ports infected by the plague to sit at anchor for 40 days before landing.

    Also this:

    One of the bright spots in the otherwise ominous coronavirus conversation is Vice President Mike Pence’s appointment of Ambassador Debbie Birx as the new response coordinator. If everyone had the pleasure of knowing what I know about Dr. Birx, the stock markets would immediately rebound and coronaviruses everywhere would cast their coronas at her feet.

    A physician, researcher, and former HIV/AIDS program chief at the Department of Defense and then at the Centers for Disease Control (CDC), she is best known, loved, and respected for her unparalleled leadership of the lifesaving global AIDS program first established by President Bush in 2003. She held the job during the Obama administration and now the Trump administration, where she has steered from politics toward simple public health math: find and treat every case so it can’t transmit the virus to new people, rinse and repeat, for less money the next year so you can serve more people over time for the same dollar. And keep scouring the data for the people you’re missing, adjusting your program until you get them, too.

    She is shrewd, she is winsome, she knows how to move money fast toward the things that matter, and to hold all recipients of that money, whether or not they’re under her authority, accountable for ambitious results. The White House is to be commended for conscripting her into service, and if they know what’s good for them, they’ll do whatever she says.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 10:30am

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    Can't Find The 86F Heat Paper, Help

    I wanted to review the ncbi paper that mentions 86F as an effective temperature to cut down the time the virus lives but can't find it. Anyone see the link?

    I wanted to note, the paper if I remember it correctly didn't say that temperature kills the virus, just that it greatly deceases the time it stays alive.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 10:34am

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    Microwave Sterilization of Masks

    Microwaves certainly have an advantage, being cheap and having a self timer. This addition seems promising

    microwave bottle sterilizer

    And its just $20.

    One problem I can see is the metal bands most N95 masks have to fit the nose. You'd need to remove them. That might open air gaps.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 10:34am

    ddelong

    ddelong

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 20 2015

    Posts: 35

    Filters

    All,

    There has been a lot of talk about the use of respirators/filters for protection.  There have been some really good ideas on potential reuse.  However, I would like to caution that part of the filters effectiveness is a result of electrostatic potential which can be shifted based upon the method of filter recycling.  Also the ratings reflect averages for the filters.  The filters have what they call a tortuous path that collects particles by different means as the particles penetrate further through the depth of the filter.  The filter is not a sieve that stops all particles of a certain size at the filter surface, they are captured through the tortuous path as the particles.  Additionally, when you saturate a filter that is intended to be dry the filtration characteristics change as well based upon the solvent is.  Also you need to know whether the inner/middle/and outer surfaces of the mask are hydrophilic or hydrophobic, this can impact long term wearing of of the mask.

    I just wanted to share a little bit more about filtration.  My life in pharma has me dealing with these in both an air and liquid environment.  By no means an expert but have seen enough to know that how you treat filtration media does impact the performance.  We use U15 filters for viral air filtration and 0.1 um nominal liquid filters for viral.

    Here are some links for a little more info:

    http://iaqtechnology.eu/files/File/TableforairfiltersEng.pdf

    https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/409903O/respiratory-protection-against-biohazards.pdf

    https://blogs.cdc.gov/niosh-science-blog/2009/10/14/n95/

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19261695

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2781738/

    https://academic.oup.com/annweh/article/54/6/671/151958

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 10:35am

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 701

    It sounds like this thing is about to blow up crazy if we can get testing done

    I am hearing from freinds and family in NY and FL - that a lot of people are being investigated or potentially quarantined for suspicion of covid 19. Seems like we have hot spots now in Washington, Oregon, California, NY , and Florida. This was given - when we said this will be the first places we will see.. I am sure there are others but the obvious indicators this is a big problems and spreading fast is now evident. Window will be closed soon for prep.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 10:39am

    Vilbas

    Vilbas

    Status: Member

    Joined: Aug 14 2014

    Posts: 32

    FL?

    Where is the suspected hotspot in Florida? looking for more intel/ammo to provide my wife to scuttle our FL trip on Wednesday.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 10:40am

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 701

    Time to make homemade respirator

    I think I am going to put a UV sanitizer light in a canister piped for breathing. Just need to figure how to power it.( any suggestions) I was thinking of using something like that crazy cap. But that is really pricey..

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 10:48am

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1045

    Dr. Campbell

    Dr. Campbell has today’s update out now.😎

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 10:52am

    km64

    km64

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 88

    Be wary of all public pronouncements...

    Looking at some of the people who fell for this, I don't know whether to laugh, cry or just shake my head.

    Welcome to Crazy Town, I just work here...

    https://thefederalist.com/2020/03/02/trump-deranged-blue-checkmarks-get-punked-by-obviously-fake-coronavirus-quote/

     

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 10:58am

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 701

    Re Florida

    Florida, had a case "that was hushed about 3-4 weeks ago" when the state came out and stated that they will not be telling the public if someone had covid 10 - due health confidentiality laws in florida, which Chris clearly showed there is no protection exceptions when it is infectious and poses risk to public. This was in Hollywood. They are now finding this in the same broward/dade area. To the locals , there have been confirmed - But that is knowledge that is spreading among the locals or hospital worker down there. Not sure if its in the News yet.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 11:00am

    meyersn

    meyersn

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 15 2010

    Posts: 3

    Time to make homemade respirator

    Unfortunately UVC lamps throw off a lot of ozone so I don’t think it would be good for breathing. Also, I’ve been looking around for UVC lamps and it seems most are shipped out of China.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 11:05am

    missy

    missy

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 15 2009

    Posts: 9

    FL

    The two cases in Florida reported last night are in Hillsborough (Tampa) and Manatee (Bradenton/Sarasota metro) counties. Still awaiting CDC confirmation but tested positive locally.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 11:10am

    kunga

    kunga

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 361

    Dr.(?) Ision, Sir (?)

    I thank you for your comments. When I first read of your stated experience, I thought you must be a flaming psychopath to rationally deal with all the evil crap you know.  Well, psychopath or exceptionally stable human, I am glad you are providing us with some insider insites.  I read all your posts.  By the way, do the women in your department also shave their heads in a pandemic?  Thanks.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 11:10am

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 701

    RE: FL

    West coast is not near as densely populated as the East coast. I am sure the problem is much much larger in south east florida (8M within 60 mil radius ) There is no testing there as of now - at least publicly. I am not sure how those other were tested. or information released and why they are holding the Broward cases quiet. Oh yeah, I remember the shootings over gas and water - during a hurricane prep. ..

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 11:14am

    amyq

    amyq

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 27 2020

    Posts: 3

    Florida and flying...

    There is a case in Sarasota at Doctors Hospital.  The cases we are finally beginning to see are the serious cases which were transmitted weeks ago.  Think of the numbers in a month and question if you want to be a part of them... or of a federal quarantine situation if you get stuck on the next airplane/ hotel / Diamond Princess situation.  It is time to stay home.  There is a deliberate lack of data and testing.  Time to read between the lines.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 11:24am

    kmaher

    kmaher

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 05 2009

    Posts: 31

    good idea, made me think of using my sun oven for disinfectinng

    dtrammel,

    Good idea with the hair dryer.  Gave my brain a push to think of my sun oven I put in my stores years ago.  Sun oven gets plenty hot to sterilize for this virus.  I think the general concept could be adapted with a cardboard box and tin foil for a diy sterilizer.  Set it up and test with a thermometer and could be a simple way to disinfect items.

    Thanks,

    Kevin

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 11:25am

    ddelong

    ddelong

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 20 2015

    Posts: 35

    More Filters

    Everyone be safe.  A mask, no matter what it may be made from might prove helpful, even if reused.  The take home point is that the cleaning process could impact any mask or filters ability to perform as originally manufactured and intended.

    Just don't be this guy, although he has found a way to use up all those CD/DVD ROMs

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 11:26am

    EstellaTrois

    EstellaTrois

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 02 2020

    Posts: 1

    EstellaTrois said:

    You can call me crazy for this conspiracy but I have to ask the question. Could the Coronavirus be biowarfare? Specifically, could it be from North Korea? While I realize the Coronavirus originated in China, China is a neighboring country to North Korea. Kim Jung Un made the threat of a Christmas gift, then nothing happened... until the Coronavirus. What if they mutated the virus and planted it in Wuhan? People do not normally go in and out of North Korea so they are pretty well protected from pandemics. Meanwhile, the missiles haven’t seemed to have gone anywhere and I haven’t seen anything about them in the news for quite a while now.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 11:27am

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    Surgical Masks/N95 Masks/Respirators

    We're getting a lot of back and forth on whether masks are effective or not. Seems to me that people are using data from one type of mask, when they are talking about another type. I wanted to post a few photos of the differences and why some may be more efficient than others.

    Surgical/Dust Masks:

    surgical mask

    These are what are used to prevent someone ill, or medical personnel during surgery from spreading their germs to other people. Note the air gaps at the sides. They can let stuff into the mask. They do help prevent coughs and sneezes from producing droplets and spreading the illness.

    Heat and moisture builds up rapidly when wearing a mask. Also, if you are coughing and sneezing you quickly soak the inside of the mask and cut filtration and incoming air rate drastically. That means most people pull the mask down to get cool air.

    N95 Masks:

    n95a

    These are supposed to be much better fitted than surgical masks, conforming to the shape of the face. They also are supposed to have better filtration.

    They can though still have a little bit of an air gap at the nose. This often causes your glasses to fog up as warm breath comes up thru the gap. I wear glasses and that happens to me often.

    n95 with goggles

    You can cut this down by having your goggles over the top of the mask, to help fit it to your face, though fogging still happens. Exhaling into the goggles though, shouldn't effect the efficiency of the mask.

    Vents help cut down heat and moisture build up, but they are still a b!tch to wear long term.

    Respirators:

    respirator

    Respirators have a better fit because of a wider seal around the face. They can also make breathing in easier due to a larger intake/filter area. I've not had glass fogging problems when using these.

    There are also N100 filters available for these which would increase the efficiency of particle capture.

    --

    I think its important to specify which mask you are talking about when you argue whether these are efficient or not efficient to preventing infections.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 11:40am

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    Three Chris Martenson Videos While We Wait

    Found these three videos on Chris.

    Why a conservative economist moved to the country

    What is peak oil, and will fracking buy us time?

    How many more times can the world be twice as big?

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 11:52am

    Susan7

    Susan7

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 15 2020

    Posts: 63

    Does anyone have an explanation for this? It might be fake.

    Amol Vaidya (@amol00007) Tweeted:
    The woman, possibly infected with #coronavirus, collapsed with no symptoms.
    #CoronavirusOutbreak #Coronavirusiran #coronavirussingapore #coronavirus #CoronaVirusFacts #CoronavirusUpdates #coronaviruschina #Coronaviruspakistan #coronaviruswuhan #CoronavirusCoverup
    #TruthWins https://t.co/eDSBj3mp8d

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 11:56am

    Vilbas

    Vilbas

    Status: Member

    Joined: Aug 14 2014

    Posts: 32

    6 Deaths

    Out of Washington now.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 11:57am

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    New Coronavirus Preparations Forum

    Adam has created a new forum, for us to put preparations, information and topic threads relating to the current health crisis here:

    https://www.peakprosperity.com/forums/peakprosperity-discussions/general-discussion-and-questions/living/coronavirus-covid-19-preparation/

    I have to go cut a tree down this afternoon but this evening I'll repost the megathreads to that forum, so people can find them easier.

    I will also put all the information from those threads into downloadable files for you to keep off site.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 12:05pm

    amyq

    amyq

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 27 2020

    Posts: 3

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsyujjitOFM&t=74s

    It is a bio-weapon.  Probably an accident.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 12:19pm

    George Karpouzis

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 17 2009

    Posts: 189

    3 from the nursing home

    One in his 50s the other in his 40s

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 12:30pm

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    Discussing China's Response - "All About Speed"

    I think the key learning from China is speed — it’s all about the speed. The faster you can find the cases, isolate the cases, and track their close contacts, the more successful you’re going to be. Another big takeaway is that even when you have substantial transmission with a lot of clusters — because people are looking at the situation in some countries now and going, “Oh, gosh, what can be done?” — what China demonstrates is if you settle down, roll up your sleeves, and begin that systematic work of case finding and contact tracing, you definitely can change the shape of the outbreak, take the heat out of it, and prevent a lot of people from getting sick and a lot of the most vulnerable from dying.

    “It’s all about speed”: The most important lessons from China’s Covid-19 response

    Not all that impressed with the WHO but that comment at least is spot on. Makes me worry about our response here in the US.

     

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 12:43pm

    Aprila1

    Aprila1

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2020

    Posts: 2

    6 Total Deaths

    I feel like people are still down playing this virus.

    There are days I feel like I’m being ridiculous.  Then there are days that I feel like I’m not.

    My boss and another co worker were is Washington Seattle area about 2 weeks ago.  My boss is the one who is laughing and think the media is over exaggerating this virus.

    im pissed for more then 1 reason.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 12:47pm

    Desogames

    Desogames

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 210

    A last update - treatment

    Well everybody still refuses to believe me, but i know that there are still a few out there who still care. Since i've been asked to... be nice, i'll just say i woke up today after having eaten nothing but 7 slices of bread with butter and strawberry jam yesterday and i still had... Well not normal poo. That's the least graphic i can get without not being able to say what happend so if you imagined it; that's on you.

    But i've got an update after i started my own treatment for about 1-2 days. I was letting things get worse to catalog stuff but i don't want another heart attack so i've gone in full battle mode. But that also means measurements of the disease are now useless/contaminated so i won't be giving any.

    Ibuprofen helps, but only partially. I start the day off with 2x400mg, you're allowed to have 3 a day, but that's only in case you're not sick (for legal and logical reasons there's obviously some wiggle room there) and when you're sick your body can take more since your body uses more (same as using more oxygen as running faster). I notice that after the initial dose my left lung starts hurting more again after about 8 hours, so i tend to take another one, which reduces the pain fairly quickly to an annoying hum. I haven't had to take a 4th, but i'm saving that in case of emergency.

    I've also taken 2-4 paracetamol a day, which seems to alleviate the pain further. one multivitamin (half max dose) and a bunch of extra vitamin C (400-500g, dont go overboard cause that burns your stomach) doesn't hurt either.

    I've also reduced smoking to half intake, and i don't smoke physically addicting stuff anyway so that gives no ill results. Even when reduced i've noticed no pattern between pain spikes and smoking - so i'm staying on the minimum dose to keep my mind calm.

    But the main treatment, as weird as it sounds, is movement. Whenever i feel muscle pains coming on, shortness of breath or especially if my fingertips start tingling, i put on some music and i start bouncing. I noticed this as well during the heart attack, when the tingling from my fingers moved up my hand, wrist and arm pretty quickly. Basically - my heart was petering out.

    The problem is not blood oxygen, that's been above 95% all the time. Nor is it speed, your heart will beat fast enough. The problem is Strength. Your heart needs to beat Stronger. I'm not joking; it's literally the movie Crank in real life.

    If i'm bouncing in my chair i'm using all my torso muscles and that seems to pretty much alleviate alot of things. I've already mentioned that i have trouble  reading the fever because it keeps going away if i move. That was the key.

    When you're feeling bad/sick/short of breath, you've got the tendancy to sit down/lay down/take it easy as much as possible. But this just makes it worse. I've observed this happening to me anyway. Keeping your heart going is the number 1 thing.

    Everything else is just following the symptoms really. Tired? go sleep. Not tired? start the day. Can't eat? don't. Can eat? then do. Chills? Robe. Fever? no sweater.

    I'm doing far better now 🙂 But Tilburg is having a massive outbreak for which it will not test. Remember; officially, i don't know if i have it, i've never been tested.

    But in the hospital my father had the same dry throat as me ("i just need to eat after i brush my teeth") as well as urge to pee ("consistant with arithmea from which our family suffers"). My sister is "having a cold" according to my mother even when she admits she's been keeping my sister at home for the last 7 days and she hasn't seen anybody. The cold has a maximum incubation time of 5 days. This information is lost on her.

    My father's neighbours are all sick. They're from Eritrea but have been in Solangen, Germany something like 2 weeks ago. Now they all have the "flu". We mentioned this in the emergency room, and the woman behind the counter said "ah yes, good that you mentioned that, but that's not an problem".

    Lord knows how many people i've infected by walking around without a mask. But nobody takes me seriously without one much less with one. I've tried that both ways.

    Look. It's no longer my problem. I've found a treatment that will keep me alive and from progressing into a serious case. All i wanted was to not infect a whole bunch of people; but that is well out of my hands now simply because this virus beat even me. It was much faster then i thought it would be.

    All i'm saying now, is they will not find this until Tilburg's 2 hospitals for 250k people become very overwhelmed very quickly, and then they will shut down because neither hospital has taken any precautions. I'm not talking they're slow, i'm talking i've been to the emergency room twice on two days and nobody was wearing any masks.

    Although. when i went yesterday it was exceptionally quiet in the emergency room. Wasn't that way the day before. Maybe i've scared a few people away.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 1:03pm

    George Karpouzis

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 17 2009

    Posts: 189

    Aprila

    There's actually a very valid reason why people are downplaying this, its called "the boy who cried wolf syndrome."

    The media HYPED TO HEAVEN the SARS, the Bird Flu and the Swine Flu outbreaks. Like 24-7 coverage. People get numb. Even me, when the story first broke in mid Jan, I was like here we go again, another "virus" BOOHOO.

    It wasnt until Jan 24 when I heard about the lockdown in Wuhan when i got spooked.

    The vast majority of people aren't wired like that. They just see the headlines. And, normalcy bias is a b*tch. No reason to get upset.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 1:05pm

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 701

    Family freinds ( denial ) shifting

    Getting calls from family and friends, stating this is happening as I said it would when I said it would.. Hmm.. self-evident phase of truth? they are trying to buy water and sanitizing wipes and complaining they cant find them lol.. Its not funny or fun.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 1:06pm

    Vilbas

    Vilbas

    Status: Member

    Joined: Aug 14 2014

    Posts: 32

    Vilbas said:

    It also takes reality smacking people directly in the face for it to become *real* for them and for them to actually change their lives/behavior. We haven't experienced this in our lifetime so it's gonna be really hard for lots of people to wrap their heads around it.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 1:08pm

    scotthw

    Status: Member

    Joined: Oct 16 2008

    Posts: 21

    Do you have covid ?

    @costa rica

    Ya that O2 level is alarming, but otherwise your symptoms match exactly a virus I had a month ago.  My Dr said there was a non flu virus going around that mimicked your symptoms.   It chewed up the better part of 2 weeks for me.  Do you have any underlying respiratory issues ?

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 1:10pm

    scotthw

    Status: Member

    Joined: Oct 16 2008

    Posts: 21

    Dell has suspended intl travel

    Dell has suspended all intl travel and VRBO has told its employees to stay at home if they have a cough of ANY  kind, no matter what it is.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 1:13pm

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 701

    George

    Its not so much crying wolf, it just they have not been told the facts. Ebola - wow we know what that is, and even that didnt have the facts, people were more scared than they should have been - again because of lack of correct facts. - H1N1 .. they were scared not because we have never had a swine flu, but because it was killing young people.. not how many but who.. and it did kill some young people and it was something to think about - i thought about it then but i didnt prep for it.. As it turned out it was less lethal than the flu except for the very very few.. people. it was not killing the older people liek normal -it was odd.

    This is scary. it does kill old people , but young as well. its not even the 2% fatality that freaks me out. its the amount of serious illness it causes - that can be deadly. But more I am worried about surviving it.. as its probably a lot more fatal the second go round. -- My theory why kids and infants are not affected , they have not been sensitized to it or similar infection - the likely hood of a sensitization of previous infection is more likely the longer you have been around. Tthere is no other way to explain how and why a 11 mo infants immune system can handle this while a 35 year old dr can die/

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 1:29pm

    britmi

    britmi

    Status: Member

    Joined: May 06 2012

    Posts: 13

    A New normal cometh

    Granny

    I agree with you.  I've been thinking to much lately and wishing it could just go back to the way it was.   At least on one side of the coin.   I know there are too many other issues that need to be addressed just wasn't expecting something like this.  But who was.    Things are still pretty quiet here in Canada but expecting that to change sooner than later.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 1:37pm

    Tom Sammy

    Tom Sammy

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 30 2020

    Posts: 135

    CDC testing data disappears?

    https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/2/21161693/cdc-coronavirus-testing-numbers-website-disappear-expansion-us?_gl=1*1woo7xu*

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 1:42pm

    dingbat

    dingbat

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 22 2020

    Posts: 1

    Why not a pandemic (yet)

    In case you missed it, one potential reason for the extraordinary reluctance to call this a pandemic may be revealed in this article on Zerohedge: https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/wall-street-behind-delay-declaring-covid-19-outbreak-pandemic

    Key extracts:

    In June 2017, the World Bank announced the creation of “specialized bonds” that would be used to fund the previously created Pandemic Emergency Financing Facility (PEF) in the event of an officially-recognized (i.e. WHO-recognized) pandemic.

    They were essentially sold under the premise that those who invested in the bonds would lose their money if any of six deadly pandemics hit, including coronavirus. Yet, if a pandemic did not occur before the bonds mature on July 15, 2020, investors would receive what they had originally paid for the bonds back in addition to interest and premium payments on those bonds that they recieve between the date of purchase and the bond’s maturation date.

    Notably, WHO determines if a pandemic meets the criteria that would see investors’ money be funneled into PEF as opposed to their own pockets, which would take place if no pandemic is declared between now and when the bonds are set to mature this upcoming July.

     

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 1:43pm

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 701

    RE: CDC testing numbers

    F'n Pigs..... no transparancy.. try to cover mistakes and mislead public to their deaths.. I say the current US govt is done after this ..

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 1:52pm

    George Karpouzis

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 17 2009

    Posts: 189

    Nordicjack

    Doesnt matter what you show people. You can show them people dropping in the streets in Iran, they say "well thats in Iran." You can show them hospitals out of beds in Italy, they will say "well thats in Italy." You can show them spiking deaths in Washington and they will say "thats far from here." The power of positive thinking is truly remarkable. I sort of envy it to be honest.

    Let's see how this thing plays out. Based on how fast this virus is moving it shouldnt be long until cases start popping up in my neck of the woods (Orange County, CA).

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 1:55pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    The disruptions and struggles are real, here and now.

    Just want to say "thank you!" to all here in the PP community for keeping me and each other informed and balanced as this crisis unfolds.

    Whether new to the PP community or not-so-new, most here are keenly aware that we're coming upon the precipice of massive global change. The coronavirus is a serious, potentially fatal crisis in itself, but it will catalyze a series of other crises with equal or even greater disruptive impacts.

    For most of the pubic, life continues on as "normal". (Case in point: The Dow surged 1,250 points today. See, nothing to worry about!)

    For most here at PP, we're already feeling the stress and struggle of these disruptions. No longer just an abstraction or thought exercise for planning and preparation if needed, now many of us are having to test and put into action those plans.  Risk assessment is now a daily exercise, and not without repercussions:

    When is it no longer wise or safe to be at work, school, stores, and other communal spaces; with or without PPE and other precautions?

    Are there viable alternatives such as telecommuting or working from home, and if so, would the "higher-ups" find them acceptable?

    When/how is mitigation for necessary transport possible and when it is just unsafe to fly, take the train, subway, bus or other pubic transportation?  

    Can I afford not to go to work, and if so, how long?

    Should I pull my funds out of the ""markets"" and redeploy my assets, and if so, when and how?

    Should we go on that long-planned vacation or family gathering?

    My loved one or I am sick: How sick, what are the symptoms? How to treat?

    Should I keep next week's scheduled appointment for that needed hospital procedure  or can/should it be delayed?

    When/should I pull my children out of school, college or other group activities?

    Do we move forward with that home project as planned or keep the funds in reserve for unexpected pandemic or economic needs?

    Do I have enough of the necessary preps for my situation, and how can I use them wisely and make them last?

    How can I best support those I care about without also putting myself and those closest to me at risk?

    How can I keep informed about what is really going on when the "authorities" at all levels are withholding or dissembling information about the pandemic and associated risks?

    Many of the above questions, and more, have been discussed by Chris, Adam, guests and the PP community. I find myself revisiting those discussions as I encounter my latest risk mitigation dilemma, and it is helpful.

    I think the folks here at PP keep things in perspective and are not harmed, but rather empowered with our "over abundance of information."  We're all stressed, and sometimes that comes out in some of the interactions here on the PP threads. Its all good, though.

    I appreciate the support and contributions from this outstanding community. If I have to be in the trenches as this thing unfolds, I feel I'm in good company with the finest, most caring, talented and courageous warriors possible.

    Thanks everyone! 

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 2:05pm

    scotthw

    Status: Member

    Joined: Oct 16 2008

    Posts: 21

    NYT: Spread of virus picks up speed on multiple continents.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/02/world/coronavirus-news.html?action=click&pgtype=Article&state=default&module=styln-coronavirus&variant=show&region=TOP_BANNER&context=storyline_menu

    "But a genetic analysis of the virus in Washington State, where the deaths occurred, suggested that the illness could have been spreading within the community for as long as six weeks before the first case was detected"

     

    Ugh

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 2:20pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    Dtrammel, Adam re: new forum for megathreads, updates; and 2 requests.

    Thanks for that update, dtrammel and for continuing to compile and organize the massive comments into manageable megathreads.

    Adam, thank you for setting aside space on the site for easy access to the megathreads and current coronavirus information. Request #1:  Would it be possible to make that forum/megathreads "sticky" so they are always at the top of the list of forums for easy access? Otherwise, I believe they will continue to move lower on the list of forums and potentially buried as other topics are added.

    Request #2:  I know Chris mentioned that the "thumbs-up" button was disabled inadvertently with an upgrade to the PP platform, and that he and your tech folks are working to fix that. (Yeah, thank you!!) Could you also please fix the Personal Messages (PM) alert to individual PP members' in-box which is also no longer working? At the top of any PP page, it used to show a red number indicating how many PMs were unread in the in-box. I still get an alert on my personal e-mail, but sometimes I'm late to check and/or it gets buried. If I remember to check my PP account/in-box, then I'll see the red number alert and any unread messages. But it would be nice have the original alert function restored along with the "thumbs-up" button.  Thanks!!

     

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 2:41pm

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 701

    Sparky regarding questions

    Questions I ask each day. I am not sure there are answers at the moment. This is something that has never played out in our modern world. It will disrupt things in unimaginable ways, I said this will change our lives moving forward - the way HIV changed health care and the way 911 changed the way we travel.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 2:43pm

    George Karpouzis

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 17 2009

    Posts: 189

    Watching the vice president press conference

    "The president did such a great job by stopping flights from China"

    Man, it must be so nauseating to keep parroting that ridiculous line.

    Yo Mr. President there's still tons of flights coming in from South Korea, Japan, Thailand, Italy, France, etc. Stooges

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 2:49pm

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 701

    Regarding the PEF bonds

    I cant believe there was not a specific criteria that would have to be met - leaving up the declaration to a body is one thing - but to have that authority body to re-classify something in midst of something that met the existing criteria of pandemic - is really unprecedented - and I believe it demands an answer by the WHO.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 2:56pm

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1045

    I Make A Motion

    My motion is to change the name of the Center for Disease Control (CDC) to the CDD Center for Disease Dissemination. Do I have a 2nd?

    All in favor say, eeye.  Opposed?

    Perhaps we also need a motion for the official name change to The Honey Badger virus!

    😱

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 3:06pm

    Barbara

    Barbara

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 15 2009

    Posts: 172

    Helping the low paid in-home Caregivers care for your elderly

    Because we had chinese students being monitored near my infirm father's home, I took steps in Jan.  My caregivers have kids and also live in areas with higher population density.  We've agreed that if there is an identified case in the area, we'll use my dad's house as a retreat for their families.  They appreciate the offer of a safer place for their kids.  We are all aware that any of us could have been contaminated before we lock down, and knowing they don't have to travel back and forth through possibly contaminated crowds is very attractive to them.
    Several people here have talked about lack of resources as an impediment to preparation.  If you trust the caregivers, have the discussion with them unless they have a family that's too large to be safely handled in your loved one's home.
    I'd rather be in a quarantined area with folks that have some experience in caregiving and many of them will be living in high risk areas.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 3:27pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    Diease and death apparently ""market"" positive?

    This is crazy! US 99 confirmed Covid-2019 cases and 6 deaths (with more on the way), and the Dow surges 1,294 points?!? One might conclude that disease and death are good for the ""markets"". Go figure!

    Expect Fed Reserve jawboning and PPT (Plunge (Pandemic) Protection Team) action in the days ahead.

    https://bnonews.com/index.php/2020/02/the-latest-coronavirus-cases/

    Dow rallies 1,294 points, most in its history

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/02/investing/dow-stock-market-today/index.html

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 3:35pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    Chris' newest video, live now: "Time to Triage" (3/2/20)

    Only Tough Choices Remain (3/2/20)

    https://youtu.be/CNQB-Q67DpE

     

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 4:16pm

    aggrivated

    aggrivated

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Sep 22 2010

    Posts: 469

    Social distancing

    Two fold strategy

    1. Self protection : N95 mask (try to make the outside look dirty) + wrap around goggles or sun glasses, etc.

    2. Crowd control: Wear smelly clothes and eat lots of  garlic. Look the part-unhygienic worker or homeless. People naturally keep more distance from unkempt folks.

    Sent from

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 6:57pm

    wyrldtraveler

    wyrldtraveler

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 04 2020

    Posts: 65

    best healthcare in the world

    The definition of "the world" for Federal employees consists of the UNITED STATES and regardless of where a Federal employee goes, he/she/it (say that quickly) they are considered to be in the UNITED STATES for legal purposes.

    Of course Azar is in the country with the best healthcare in the world - as far as he is concerned, it *is* the world!

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 9:45pm

    MQ

    MQ

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Oct 13 2011

    Posts: 122

    The coming changes

    Thoughtful and thought provoking post, Sparky1.

    And to think I used to enjoy reading apocalyptic/dystopian fiction.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 5:12am

    Ision

    Ision

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 07 2020

    Posts: 125

    UVC Ultraviolet Light DOES NOT CREATE OZONE!!

    The Ultraviolet Germicidal Irradiation (UV-C) wavelength is an invaluable tool for an HVACR system. By leveraging germicidal energy to keep refrigeration coils free of microbial growth, facility managers also enjoy the benefit of reducing the spread of airborne infectious agents.

    However, some facility managers may hesitate to leverage these benefits for their application due to a concern about ozone. While the Ultraviolet spectrum contains four separate wavelengths—UV-A, B, C and Vacuum UV—each operates at different energy levels and only one is capable of producing ozone (Vacuum UV).

    As you’ll note in the graphic below, Vacuum UV operates in the 100-200nm range, where it is capable of producing ozone. UV-C, conversely, reaches its optimal germicidal strength near 253.7nm. Because ozone may only be produced below 200nm, at 253.7nm (rounded to 254nm), the germicidal wavelength does not generate ozone.

    undefined

    In addition to the stronger 254nm wavelength that does not produce ozone, UV-C lamps offer another layer of ozone protection.

    Most germicidal lamps, including those from UV Resources, are produced with doped quartz glass, which blocks the transmission of the 185nm ozone-producing wavelength. The doped quartz glass allows the 253.7nm radiation to pass through, but it blocks the 185nm wavelength from escaping. Therefore, germicidal lamps with doped glass CANNOT produce ozone.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 6:02am

    pipefit

    pipefit

    Status: Member

    Joined: Nov 15 2011

    Posts: 5

    Last day to prepare

    Here, outside of Detroit, I have not seen much panic buying.  Store shelves mostly stocked completely.  However, last night, 3/3/2020, I had to go to three stores to find distilled water, and they were almost out!

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 6:09am

    Kat43

    Kat43

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 10 2020

    Posts: 48

    The candidates can't practice social distancing

    It occurred to me this morning – we’re likely down to one of four men between 73 and 78 years old. All high risk to contract the disease and then high risk to not do very well. Best scenario would be they’re just off the campaign trail for a few weeks as they recover. I imagine they’re all on the best preventative anti-virals money and connections can secure and maybe that will be enough (in which case, wouldn't we all want to know what works!). What concerns me is the societal and economic disruption of their getting sick or worse, at a time there is already so much chaos.

    We have been hearing about the risks of facing the crowds on election day but I haven’t heard any mention of the risks the candidates themselves are taking and must continue to take. Or are we about to ban rallies and go back to just tv and radio appearances? The second wave could start in time to be a thing by the fall general election.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 6:58am

    Ision

    Ision

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 07 2020

    Posts: 125

    Handling Fear & Phobia

    Thank you for your enlightening comments regarding your thoughts about my postings here.  I am always forgetting my effect on people.  I tend to think other people are just like me and capable of intellectually handling life & death issues, even if personal.   I am usually taken by surprise when others have a hard time digesting alarming information, which causes them to exhibit an unexpected emotional response.

    My personality type, under the Jungian school, is INTJ...which has the nick-name of "Field Marshal."   I am a highly rational, philosophically consistent, profoundly intuitive, individual, with an IQ above 130, whose life experience includes a familiarity with human mortality way beyond the norm.  (Yeah, I know...but, why censor myself?)

    I was recruited by the U.S. Intelligence Community at the age of 19, after learning they have been watching me since I was in Elementary School.  You see, both my parents were ex-agents with proven capabilities ( I did not know this until AFTER I was recruited. ), and after my first tests confirmed I had inherited their smarts,  they kept track of me.   Why not see if I would grow into an asset, which had the right genetics to be effective, from an already vetted source?

    I did not have control of my emotional states, until after I accepted the government's offer (The money would allow me to marry a girl I loved.) and began my long training. ( I married that girl while I still was in training...after she was secretly vetted.)

    I received military training of the standard sort, at first.  Then, was sent to various government schools for education, which included mental conditioning, in assorted classified subjects.

    Slowly, the actual Reality of this Existence was imparted to me, and I had to intellectually and emotionally adapt to a dramatic alteration of my worldview.  I remember it taking me months to integrate some of these changes, where I could ponder them without my heart pounding.

    I was trained to face the fear of my death, and to accept it calmly, not letting such fear prevent my actions, or even to cause the slightest hesitation in them.  The success of this training was tested by placing me in contrived situations, to see if I would "freak out" or, do the job.

    You are mostly correct, Kunga.  Indeed, I was trained to become a functional Sociopath, were the attributes could be turned, and off, like a switch.  The "switch" is controlled by my sub-conscious as it detects real-time threat and is not volitional.

    The effect of this is to allow me to transition from a happy, casual, activity...such as a family BBQ with friends...into full combat mode, instantly...faster than I can drop my beer.

    I learned to accept my mortality with grace and to remove the barriers to taking instant, effective, action, which increases the chances of my survival, and that of those around me.  I do not regret this training, as it is the ONLY reason I am still alive.

    If not for the training...I would have died at the age of 28...in a life and death combat situation, which took place in civilian life, after leaving the Community.

    I became a Intelligence Facility Shelter Manager for foreign installations and was trained in all manner of treatment and decontamination, resulting from chemical, biological, and radiological  events.    Had that nuclear plant in Pennsylvania blown its containment, I would have been ordered there...and most likely died there.

    But, I mostly was concerned with chemical weapons, drifting over from Russian/Chinese border clashes, and onto Japanese soil, and being ready for a  chemical/biological attack against Japanese facilities.

    This is how I became so familiar with various pathogens and how they are enhanced by design.  This is why I alerted so quickly to this current pandemic, caused by SARS-CoV-2, and to the publications addressing its characteristics.

    I only started to post here recently.   My early reactions to this pandemic were made on another blog, dedicated to modern survival preparation.   The moment I witnessed the first Chinese videos of people falling on their faces...all my bells went off..and the "switch" was turned on.

    I am now in my 60s and am STILL married to that same girl.

    Please forgive this posting.  I know it is not helpful to the topic, being so personal, but it was therapeutic for me....being a functional Sociopath.

    Oh, there were NO WOMEN in my decon field, but many in my other intel ops.

     

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 7:22am

    thejacksonteam

    thejacksonteam

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 29 2012

    Posts: 13

    Laundry

    Does anyone know the best way to disinfect while doing laundry?

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 7:59am

    kunga

    kunga

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 361

    Embrace the bug

    Thank you, Ision, for letting your narcissistic tendencies off leash for a bit.  Most interesting. Therapeutic for me, too.  Helps explain some family tendencies.  I would like to read your book, if you write one.  Considering shaving my head.  It's a solidarity thing. She must be very tolerant with a big heart.  Thanks.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 8:14am

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    Which Phase of Laundry?

    Does anyone know the best way to disinfect while doing laundry?

    What part/phase of laundry did you mean?

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 8:15am

    Ision

    Ision

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 07 2020

    Posts: 125

    Laundry Disinfection...

    If you can wash your hands with regular soap for the short time required for disinfection, the soap and water inside your washing machine will also result in disinfection of clothes.  Naturally, warm and hot water washes are better than cold washes, and rinses.   Sodium Chloride (bleach) can be added to the wash to dramatically increase disinfection, as can other...less potent...chemicals, such as hydrogen peroxide and vinegar....and just plain salt.

    The trick is to not touch the unwashed laundry, which is infected with pathogens...and not communicating virus to surfaces in the laundry area, which would then need to be decontaminated.

     

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 9:08am

    thejacksonteam

    thejacksonteam

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 29 2012

    Posts: 13

    laundry

    After coming into the "de-staging" area, clothes worn outside will be put in a bag and washed. What is the best way to do this to make certain they are disinfected? What laundry products?

     

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 9:49am

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 701

    Big case problems about to explode

    I know we have spoken about the most likely location candidates for first explosions.. We know san francisco , seattle,, chicago , NY, LA and Miami ( high density ) would see this first. I had mentioned there was stuff going on in south florida that was hushed. I also spoke about my brother ( in so fl ) being ill for weeks with something not the flu, ( no wide spread flu in FL right now ) who had a travel history of san francisco/ tahoe between jan 10 and 15. additionally the same week he met/socialized with a asian family member who had traveled back from china around mid Jan. My brother had passed his infection to several of his staff ( in charge of about 200-250 ) But his workplaces employs about 2000. And services over 5000 customers per day at their business. One of his staff ( not elderly, not underlying health ) was just hospitalized with respiratory illness. He has suspected wuflu, and wanted testing but could not get it. his boss would not let him work from home , though sick for weeks. his boss thinks this is a joke like just flu and nothing here in the US. Again, there are lots of things going on down there, not spoken about. on the news. They had their first suspected infection at the hollywood hospital back 3-4 weeks ago when florida announced it was not disclosing health information about coronavirus due to florida confidentially laws. ( BS ) Due to my brothers exposure contact to lots of employees and customers he could be a ground zero for a major cluster. He is still not well. 6 weeks this week.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 10:11am

    Vilbas

    Vilbas

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    Joined: Aug 14 2014

    Posts: 32

    nordicjack

    Going to present that info to my wife tonight but it sure seems like she's dead-set on traveling to Ft. Lauderdale tomorrow. My anxiety is through the ROOF today because of it.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 10:14am

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 701

    Re laundry,

    I have been wearing outside clothes - when out and home clothes when home ( just for flu exposre for years ) .. I usually just let them sit a few days - 72 hours but that is for flu. I am thinking with this, still quarantine the clothing but more like 9 days. and then just washing as usual. I do not need to go out every day.. i work from home. However, I do wash my clothes in cold water ( will not kill virus ) to preserve color and fiber. So, if you want to disinfect clothing , i think you could use warm water if clothing permits. ( or you could just bring it to cleaners - no no wait that is all asian operated) I have ozone and UVC but I think both of these could be destructive on fiber in the long run. Maybe something like vinegar ( could be hard to get smell out ) or high saline bath. or hydrogen peroxide .. maybe soak 50/50/ Seems like quarantining and standard wash is the way to go.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 10:34am

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 701

    Re: travel to florida Vil

    I guess you could take precautions. but it would be really difficult in a airport situation. I would not travel to even a mid size city now "400k" by air with this going on. I guess it depends how necessary the travel is. And how willing you are to accept getting this ( maybe the 80% ) but we see how long this takes to resolve. You may even keep this forever like herpes.. They are now suggesting possible.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 10:49am

    Oliveoilguy

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jun 29 2012

    Posts: 802

    Costco prep buying in Texas

    I’ve been going to Costco once a week since January. First noticeable rush was yesterday. Out of stock on Clorox, toilet paper, spaghetti, canned chicken meat, rice. The workers said it had been crazy since last Wednesday.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 10:57am

    Vilbas

    Vilbas

    Status: Member

    Joined: Aug 14 2014

    Posts: 32

    Vilbas said:

    the definition of "necessary" is subjective here, we've needed to go see her family for a long time. Visiting elderly relatives who could go at any time is necessary but also a risky endeavor if you pick up the virus along the way.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 11:14am

    NorthElkhound

    NorthElkhound

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2020

    Posts: 35

    bioengineered

    This virus is a created one. Who stands to gain the most by wiping out adult Chinese? The United States. Trump has been clear from day one that he saw China as our greatest threat. I happen to agree. We have the labs that can do such things, and Wuhan is a perfect place to release it, since it can be blamed on the Chinese bi0warfare lab there.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 11:27am

    Matties

    Matties

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 30 2020

    Posts: 160

    Vitamine D, Italians are deficient, Iranians are deficient

    Unlike the US in Europe fortifying food with vitamine D is not allowed. Consequential the European elderly people are on mass hypovitaminosis D.

    Living in a sunny country is also not a pass. California doesn't have good numbers as well. In the Middle East the situation is sometimes so bad that rickets is still a threat.

    Hypovitaminosis D in an Italian population of elderly woman

    Hypovitaminosis D Lebanon

    Hypovitaminosis D Middle East and Africa

    Hypovitaminosis_D_in_an_Italian_population_of_heal

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 11:29am

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 701

    Vil you are in a hard place

    Yes this is necessary. But you could even risk infecting them. There is no win here. Lets face the facts - this is in the wild, in the community, travel has always made things worse for any virus. I have some recommendations for you. I am not sure where you are flying from. But, Do wear masks. even surgical. I know they say it doesnt work. It does if you talk to people and spittle flies during normal speech. ( but change the mask often every 5 hours or so.. also it keeps you from unconsciously touching around mouth and nose. try not touch eyes.. wear eyeglasses ( even clear lense if you dont have prescrip ) DO not eat or drink on the plane - i know this is a hard one.. DO not eat or drink anything while traveling ( unless its sealed and you sanitized wrapper/packing)... hydrate before hand.. Using a travel UVC wand to sanitize your seat can help too if possible. keep of change of clothes to change into once away from airport.. and plastic bag your travel clothing. ( wear light weight clothing but with long sleeves while traveling.)

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 11:33am

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2135

    disagree

    This virus is a created one. Who stands to gain the most by wiping out adult Chinese? The United States...

    That's a false flag/story line constructed by the CCP desperate to distract from their embarrassing failures.  The standard act of a regime under threat: fabricate an external enemy and/or attack that serves to unite the country.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 11:38am

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1045

    Ision - You Have Much To Offer

    I knew I liked you.  Your posts are informative, direct and to the point without the emotional need to be right.  An INTJ, I am one too so can relate. Am envious of your education.

    This statement reflects what most of us lack and struggle with.

    Slowly, the actual Reality of this Existence was imparted to me, and I had to intellectually and emotionally adapt to a dramatic alteration of my worldview.  I remember it taking me months to integrate some of these changes, where I could ponder them without my heart pounding.

    I/most of us are not there yet.  And determining actual reality is...... frustrating.

    Please stick around and help us traverse this change.

    Glad your wife still tolerates you, oops I mean glad your still happily married! (Hope you have a sense of humor🤣)

    AKGrannyWGrit

     

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 11:41am

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 701

    Vitamin d deficiency in italians and iranians

    Even in the US , with fortified milk etc, Vitamin d deficiency is common. I would think its much less of problem in the semi arid climate of northern italy. The problem with people of brown, olive, darker complexion, is their skin does not absorb/process vitamin d as efficient, the trade of is not burning easily. However, northern italians, if not all italians eat a (med)diet rich is oily fish like sardines.. they should not need to supplement. Not sure where iranians will get vitamin d. They wear /cover their skin fully, a lot. I do not believe their diet is enough to give enough vitamin d. So , I can see this population as having issues. but not italians.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 11:50am

    Vilbas

    Vilbas

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    Joined: Aug 14 2014

    Posts: 32

    Vilbas said:

    You've laid out my thought process and most of the actions I am planning to take. We fly out of Minneapolis with a layover in KC before arriving in Ft. Lauderdale. At least the return flight is nonstop. It feels very overwhelming and when thinking through all the ways you could come in contact and carry it around with you. I'm willing to strip at the airport when we arrive so I can put my shirt and pants in a bag to be washed but I doubt my wife will be as extreme as I am willing to be. But really, what's the point? Her sister is also flying down from NYC the same day and will be arriving around the same time, so we will be all 3 getting into her parents car from the airport. So, I can try all I want but there will be vectors and variables I have zero control over. And even if I remove myself from the scenario, my wife and her sister still go and bring all the same germs into the family equation. I am risk averse and always look for threats - this one is gonna be a wild ass trip for me. Feels like I just have to do my best and try to let it go. Some drugs might help.

    Planning on masking up, doing my best to not drink at all, but that will be tough for a 3pm to midnight stretch, wiping the seats down with cleaning wipes (even tho that does nothing for the crevices etc.) and generally keeping to myself as much as possible. Gonna have the hand sanitizer flowing like crazy.

    I tried to point out that the common denominator for all these spreading infections are TOURISTS!!!! but alas

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 11:54am

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    Florida festering outbreak

    Nordicjack, I hope your brother's baseline health improves (you mentioned before he has some underlying health concerns) and that he doesn't get or transmit the coronavirus to others. Unfortunately, reports from you and others, and the "authorities'" concerted efforts to NOT inform the public about what's going on suggest that the virus may be quietly festering, ready to explode. I really hope and pray for the best for your brother.

    Vilbas, sorry to add to your anxiety and marital discord with my statements above. 😉

    Kidding aside, is there anyway you can appeal to your wife's care and concern for others (e.g., your children, other loved ones, friends or co-workers) that may get infected if one or both of you get infected on this trip? What about providing a detailed, realistic scenario about getting sick and quarantined while enroute or in Florida, far away from the comforts of home? Maybe you can explore the scenario of postponing your trip until warmer weather when (a stretch theoretically, but assume so for this purpose) the virus becomes less virulent, dies down or "miraculously" disappears altogether?

    If you do end up going (ouch!) I would negotiate strongly for as many accommodations as possible to mitigate your exposure and potential for infection throughout all aspects of the trip.  I hope you're not ridiculed for doing so. In retrospect, many will appreciate your precautions and wish they had taken them as well. I can't see how this will be an enjoyable trip under the circumstances.

    Good luck! Please keep us posted to the extent you feel comfortable in doing so.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 12:00pm

    Vilbas

    Vilbas

    Status: Member

    Joined: Aug 14 2014

    Posts: 32

    Vilbas said:

    thank you! I'll update with anything I observe that is noteworthy for sure. Luckily there won't be any real marital discord, we'll sort it out this evening and whatever way we go it'll be in solidarity, that's just how we are together. Aside from all the infecting family members stuff, I think my next major fear is coming down with it, or really anything, while we are there and not being able to come home on Saturday to our doggos!

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 12:05pm

    Matties

    Matties

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    Joined: Jan 30 2020

    Posts: 160

    Vitamine D world map with studies

    https://www.iofbonehealth.org/facts-and-statistics/vitamin-d-studies-map

    Nordicjack click on adults, zoom in on Italy and have a look on the data.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 12:12pm

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1045

    NorthElkHound

    Interesting to speculate about the virus origins but some subjects are better left in the dark.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 12:14pm

    marti61

    marti61

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    Joined: Nov 30 2015

    Posts: 24

    Vit D

    Yup, the K2- D3 combo is pretty effective at boosting immune, along with all the other...

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 1:23pm

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 701

    vitamin d map

    italy looks pretty good.. men are really very very high. Women are less but that is more normal considering age - their old men are better than 90% of US and their old women are way better than average US. For me my Vitamin D is not existent.. , but that is beacause I have Men2a and Parathyroid disease.. so, I really dont count here.. I have medical issues specifically with vitamin D.. I also have genetic issues with the Vitamin d receptor.. thanks mom.. !

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 1:35pm

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 701

    Vil - I wish I could give you some xanax........

    Speaking of this - i want to refill my scrip for that. Hey go with the flow, just take precautions. lots of hand washing sanitizing, wash and change after you arrive. I do not know what your plans are for eating while in florida, but I would think any restaurant is an issue. You'd be safer to grab a couple steaks from publix and throw them on the grill. or order a pizza or something. Just don't let people make you feel awkward for wanting to maintain a distance and hygienic actions while you travel. Again, even if this airborne, I bet its a lower chance unless in really closed spaces. If someone is coughing on the plane, ask the flight attendant to give them a surgerical mask.. bring a couple xtra for this purpose. Virus is like bacteria - you cant eliminate contamination completely, just try to minimize the largest risks.. which normally is touching surfaces and then your face or eating. keep tissues in your pocket to open doors etc.. and toss them.. lots of hand sanitizer.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 1:57pm

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1190

    Agree

    stepping aside from the question of motivation, whether it was planted or an unfortunate escape, there is every reason to believe this virus came from a lab;

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/what-are-odds-timeline-facts-linking-covid-19-hiv-wuhans-secret-bio-lab

    How the f*^k did those HIV inserts get there?

    BTW, I also test out as INTJ.

     

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 2:59pm

    Matties

    Matties

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 30 2020

    Posts: 160

    US has relative good rates of vitamine D

    What i see that in the US the blood levels of adults of vitamine D are 70.4 (nmol/L). In Italy they are 39.9. Almost half. And if i am right that these are all important to fight off a virus then we will see a lot less percentage deaths in the US.

    But keep on taking those vitamine D pills for optimal protection...

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 6:35pm

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 701

    vitamin d levels

    My wife is an RD. Vitamin D rates are very low for almost everyone in the US. elderly men in italy were on par with younger populations in the US . Elderly women in italy are significantly lower. I see no reason why woman would be so much lower than men. it may be do bone loss with women and hormones. i know everyone thinks its the vitamin d that helps calcium absorption but its much more synergistic.. take this from some one with first hand experience as I have MEN2 and parathyroid disease. parathyroid disease is common denominator MEN1,2 and 4 because hormone issues press the parathyroids. parathyroid disease is much more common in women than men- further my hereditary MEN2 comes from my italian ancestory.. so if women here have a problem it could be more genetic rather than diet. Never the less Vitamin d levels are very sub par in the US. But the tests are very unreliable. And believe me - again i have first experience because of my disease which vitamin d is measure much more than mnormal. and I get wanky test results a lot .. that have to be repeated.. and I can be 12 on one and 35 on another in the same week. SO , i have found we have significant testing issues with this, and for the record the doctors thought the wanky tests were a results were due to my parathyroid disease. I had surgery to remove the bad gland - all other three were inspected and tested normal - all parathyroid hormone tests since surgery have been stable and normal - yet the vitamin D monitoring continues and is still wanky.. Docs only theorize a problem with the testing. I guess you can suggest its an issue with my health and chemistry.. however, if you got your vitamin d tested by two 3 different labs - about 1 per mo for 3 years.. please let me know if your results are consistent.

    I know vitamin D was implicated in the H1N1 flu as a cause of death or cytokine storm. I had very low below 18 vitamin d at the time, I breezed through H1N1 like it was almost nothing. I mean it it was like the weakest flu/cold in the world , I would literally say , I wasnt sure I even got sick , except everyone else including my wife was at the time. So.. all those who put so much into vitamin d and immunity and vitamin c - etc. i woudlnt bank on it. Not saying their is roll of vitamin d and vitamin c, and zinc. But again as most dont know, Calcium and Magnesium actually play a bigger roll. So immunity is very complex and to say oh gosh they are dying because they are vitamin D defecient.., i put no value into that at all.. None what soever in weathering a flu.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 7:13pm

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 701

    regarding UVC and ozone

    Yes, germicidal wavelengths of UVC around 160 ( optimal ) do not produce ozone. An ozone producing light ( around 185 ) does not produce germicidal light.. They are two different disinfecting actions.. at different light wavelenght. I guess some people may not know that.. But the UVC lights and ozone generating lights are pretty specific on the products. I have both products.

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  • Thu, Apr 30, 2020 - 6:23am

    PamelaParker

    PamelaParker

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 17 2020

    Posts: 2

    Comprehensive morphine addiction treatment plan

    At Addiction Rehab Centers, a comprehensive morphine addiction treatment plan is offered to the patients depending upon their individual needs. It is important to go through all the treatment options and choose the one that suits the patient the best.https://www.addictionrehabcenters.com/addiction-treatment/morphine-addiction-treatment-and-rehabilitation/

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