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Thanks very much Chris. Wow, I'm honored you took the trouble to look at this.
Of course, now it's up on slideshare on this link, I can't change it anymore, I can only remove this one and put a new one up – which I am a bit loathed to do as people have embedded this one in many different sites and the link wouldn't work for them.
Wow you are the only person who even noticed I wrote "minsiter" – not even myself! Good eagle eye there Chris. Funny!
I will take your other suggestion though with info about what will happen if we wait till debt-money bursts – but will incorporate that in to an updated slideshare I will be starting soon.
I too like to be a typo nut – but apart from having no minor spelling errors, I hope to go for a bit more of a consistent and professional look for the next one too.
There's a long path ahead of me!
Hi. I am in NZ too, in the lower North Island.
If you know someone in NZ, can’t you come here under "sponsorship". Those people act as a guarantee for you for a while so you don’t cost the country any money. But they let you in on that basis ???
2012 is when the Mayan calendar ends.
2012 is when the time line on the Egyptian pyramids ends.
Cycles of time. This cycle is ending.
Apparantly the Egyptians accurately predicted WW II and some other stuff.
There is a site – google year2012. Actually I think that is the site year2012.com.
Lots of strange esoteric types on the sites. Can’t rule anything out though. If 2012 is the end of mankind "as we know it" then that makes the next 4 years abysmal, starting now. Right on cue.
Co-incidence or not. Can you hear the twilight theme playing "do do do do do do do do" ?
Really appreciate your input. Could you just let me know which particular one of my questions the answer is NO to ? Is it the main question, "can permaculture and community really save us" ?
If the answer is No to that – then do we have no hope at all, or is there some other idea you have that is the answer ?
Don, love your idea about the trucks – refrigerated train carriages could also be a great score. Thanks for all your info too. Will let the info sink in, get my head around it – and either post here or email you if I need to.
Also it is interesting how much conflicting information has been given.
I have gone to just about every site and watched every Utube posted. I haven’t bought any of the recommended books yet, though I intend to.
Anyway: Some people say yes you can live sustainably on a very small piece of land and others say no, it can’t be done. Even the permaculture videos show what is being done and saying it produces a lot, but it is not quantified. Certainly not in terms of living ONLY off the land for a long period of time.
Our family don’t need a fancy diet. Just briefly balanced and enough calories, that’s all. I was thinking I would grow a lot of potatoes and pumpkin. And some beans for protein for example. Anything else would be a bonus for adding variety.
At the end of the day. If it is not possible to live off the land, there is no other option anyway. I have to give it a go anyway. But I still can’t decide between the suburbs (with house) and rural (with no house).
Still keen for people’s comments on this decision. Thanks again all.
Thanks so much for your inspiration! Am feeling like it is all a bit hopeless at the moment. I too could live in a wee caravan like that. However, we have two young boys and my husband has an important executive job (hope it lasts!) and so we just couldn’t do what you are doing.
My father rekons that the seas are becoming so rapidly fished out that living off them wouldn’t be an option. How do you get your Kawhai ? Row boat or from shore ? Maybe I should learn to fish. And get the equipment. And learn how to collect shell fish etc.
What is a freezer panel caravan ?
How much did it cost to buy and set up your solar panels, inverter and batteries ? My Dad rekons it is very expensive to set up, and inefficient. Also he says that replacement parts will be impossible in future times and that eventually it will break – and the batteries will definately have a finite life. Do you agree with this as I would love to even buy a small set up just to keep a freezer going, like you. If it is cost effective.
I intend to cook with gas bottles then move to good old fashioned wood fire place cooker.
We probably live 7 km from the beach so am going to start to look in to your ideas.
I rekon NZ is one of the best places to be but still know that it is not going to be easy. We have a lot of land that can be converted in to food production – only if there is time to have this established !
One idea we had is to buy some land and start planting fruit and nut trees. We can’t afford to build as well yet so we would have productive land with no dwelling which would be quite stupid. But you have given me the idea that we could buy a caravan or two just in case ! If my husband was made redundant we could go and live there then if we had to !
I am tossing up whether it is better to buy a smaller property within suburbia eg half an acre and live in a more concentrated community setting. Or go a bit more rural and have less close neighbours but more land – also it would be further (more petrol) to get anywhere when we had to.
If you have any thoughts on that I would appreciate it too.
Are you planning to just park your caravan up on public/government land ? or do you own some ? Problem is with owning land too coastal is that it is so sandy it is not very fertile. Yes, it could be built up with permaculture but that is extra work. Also can’t rule out sea levels rising.
Thanks again Don.
Thanks so much Liventhe dreem and also Ruhh. Thats really interesting. So much for living on a quarter of an acre and being self sufficient. Turns out you can hardly be self sufficient on even more land.
The whole situation is darn awkward really …… sigh.
Seems there is very little solutions at all. I will go back to the drawing board and come back with some more questions.
Can permaculture and community really save us? WHAT do you need saving from?
What is the difference between flight, fight and weathering the storm? Are those approaches mutually exclusive or are they transitional? Is my approach pragmatic or apathetic?
What did the Hitchhiker’s Guide say? DON’T PANIC.
I don’t think what you have to say is either pragmatic or apathetic. I think what you have to say is very interesting. But very philosophical. And if Religion, war and technology have not saved us, probably philosophy won’t either !
Was it rhetorical that you asked what we need saving from ? Is it you think we need saving from ourselves ? I simply want to save my children from starvation.
If we don’t find a sustainable way to live, we die. The question is whether permaculture and community can deliver this.
And while humans can be a herd animal – I tend to think of those in this forum as those outside that box sniffing out the wolf coming, and making sensible preparations. Not being part of the rest of the herd.
You speak of ideals. I say there is idealism and realism. I also think the realists will survive the coming scenarios better as they are breaking from the herd and owning up to what is happening. You can let go of as much fear as you want. But that may not feed you incoming times. Now that is pragmatic!
However I do subscribe to the Hitch hikers guide to the galaxy. Don’t panic ! But didn’t they say the answer to life and the universe and everything was 42 ??? Do you think the number 42 will save us !!
There is a debate on this thread you might want to read: Hyperinflation or continuing deflation – in the general discussions area:
You could post your original question there, cut and paste, or you could start a new thread. I am really interested in this area. I have absolutely no understanding of it, but am fascinated by it, so will be following it closely!