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    Too Much Damage Is Being Done

    It's going to take years to recover from the bungled response to covid-19
    by Adam Taggart

    Friday, June 5, 2020, 10:42 AM

Vindication!

That Lancet published study vilifying HCQ that Chris has debunked point by point over the past few videos? It’s just been retracted.

Turns out, it was exactly the “garbage science” Chris said it was. Score a big victory for fans of truth.

But it shouldn’t have to be this way…our scientists should be rigorous and honest. We need that more than ever right now. But instead, we’re getting shoddy results at best, and compromised conclusions influenced by politics and big money at worst.

Too much damage is being done right now — to our faith in the institutions that govern our society, to social equity, to public health and security.

As we’ve been warning, long after the virus subsides, it’s going to take years — possibly decades — to recover from the wounds covid-19 has inflicted.

The tribe is suiting up! We’ve seen tremendous response now that our RESILIENCE shirt production partner is finally back in action.

To get your own shirt, click here.

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47 Comments

  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 11:06am

    #1
    richcabot

    richcabot

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    6

    More problems with the study than you cite

    How likely is it that people actually knew the date they were infected?  The experiment didn't test participants before entering the study, participants may have been infected before it began.

    The study didn't continue treatment through the duration of the study, so infection could have occurred after medication ended. They treat the incubation period like it's a clockwork 2 weeks, it's not. Incubation has been reported as short as a few days and as long as 21 days, 14 is merely the average.

    Since no participants were tested we don't know who was actually infected.

    The drug is not claimed to prevent infection but to significantly inhibit the virus reproduction. If you get infected while on HCQ you may well show symptoms. The difference is that you are less likely to have a severe case or to sustain any significant lung or organ damage.  Since they didn't assess case severity over time they don't know if people on HCQ recovered faster or recovered with less lasting damage.

    A more relevant test would be to administer the drug for several months and track the infection rates and disease progression in both cohorts.  Zinc is necessary for HCQ to properly function against COVID19 but it wasn't supplied to participants.   Only people who were already taking it got it.  That alone negates most of the usefulness of the study.

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 11:08am

    #2
    richcabot

    richcabot

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    2

    Why the lag in posting videos?

    These are on Youtube a full day before being posted here.

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 11:08am

    #3
    French connexion

    French connexion

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    3

    Militarized police

    The yellow jacket movement proved your point Chris 47min42. The "guns" shoot a rubber bullet the size of a squash ball - with a lazer sight making a red dot on the targeted sight. Hard to say those who lost eyes "éborgné" lost them by accident - terrible statistics from France.

    I have great respect for Ghandi and his way of peaceful disobedience.

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 11:35am

    #4
    French connexion

    French connexion

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    2

    What are your thinking?

    The unemployment numbers today make little sense. The end result is that we will be hearing lots of positive news over the weekend. MSM style.

    Here are two good "framing" points to consider.

    from an economist I like - who says that companies said they will hire. With that promise government money becomes a grant, not a loan.

    Nice way to get a strong number, eh?

    https://twitter.com/EconguyRosie/status/1268924453385318401

    I guess Greg Mannarino pulled his Twitter where he questioned how could record number of hirings take place with businesses shut in?

    The Medium is the Massage. Marshall McLuhan

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 11:50am

    #5
    DaveDD

    DaveDD

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    3

    That iceberg!

    Somehow that iceberg made a huge impression on me. I cannot put my finger on it yet why It does.

    thanks!

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 11:53am

    #6
    Island girl

    Island girl

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    1

    Vaccines ramped up

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52917118

    Was there any safety testing? I don't care to be a guinea pig, so I hope there we are offered informed consent as ethics requires.

     

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 12:15pm

    #7
    cindyb

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    Even a Vaccine Won’t Erase this Pandemic

    https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2020/06/03/Vaccine-Will-Not-Erase-Pandemic/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_content=060320-3&utm_campaign=editorial-0620

     

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 12:50pm

    #8
    TWalker5

    TWalker5

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    3

    “”Markets””

    I agree completely that stocks appear to be way overpriced by any sensible measure. But being that we can’t abolish the Fed or even contain it, it makes sense to me to try to get at least a small slice of that wealth pie by not fighting the Fed and taking part in the madness. I’ve missed too many gains over the past 10 years by being so convinced that we’ve been in a constant bubble. Why can’t they keep it inflated for the next 10?

    T.

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 12:53pm

    #9
    Mike from Jersey

    Mike from Jersey

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    5

    Hydroxychloroquine

    I just saw an article on the Google newspage with this headline:

    "New Study Likely closes the door on use of Hydroxychloroquine for Covid-19"

    The headline was simply not true. I clicked through to the article. The study had not even been peer reviewed. While the actual protocols of the study were unclear the article noted:

    "... it is still an open question whether the medicine might work earlier in the disease."

    Well, we already knew that it did not work late in the disease. In other words, the new study added absolutely nothing to what we already knew. And it certainly did not "likely close the door on use of Hydroxychloroquine for Covid-19."

    But the headline flatly stated that it did.

    Is this just poor journalism or is there more to it?

    I wish I knew.

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 1:11pm

    David Kendrick

    David Kendrick

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    David Kendrick said:

    Its from STAT and the Daily Mail, from another Oxford study of around 1,542 patients in ICU of whom 25% died, the problem being no zinc and it was late onset in the UK where mortality hit 95% of case resolutions, before they stopped releasing the figures. Right now another dodgy dossier. The study gave out a control group of 3132 who received a placebo where 23% died, this is an abysmal death rate, never mind the study - about twice the estimate of 11-14% per head of population.

    "Robert Califf, the former Food and Drug Administration commissioner and Alphabet employee, tweeted that the study “essentially rules out benefit of [hydroxychloroquine] in critically ill hospitalized patients.” He wrote that the results showed “no benefit; no major risk.”:- well Chris was telling them it was completely worthless to administer it that way for months.

    https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/05/hydroxychloroquine-had-no-benefit-for-hospitalized-covid-19-patients-possibly-closing-door-to-use-of-drug/

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8392293/Hydroxychloroquine-does-NOT-treat-coronavirus-biggest-study-drug-finds.html

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 1:27pm

    #11
    Prep101

    Prep101

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    4

    MUST WATCH: All 4 parts on the Bill Gates series (& vaccines) are now available!

    Hi to all!

    At last, now all 4 parts of the series on Bill Gates are available, taking a total of approximately 2 hours to watch.

    In my view, this is an extremely important documentary to watch if you want to know if the vaccines that are being developed for Sars-Cov-II are safe.

    Also, I think this series is a MUST WATCH if you want to know WHY hydroxychloroquine is being suppressed in favour of a so-called Sars-Cov-II vaccine (the short answer is: if you want to vaccinate the whole world, you better suppress cheap medicines such as hydroxychloroquine.) Moreover, it will provide you with an anker against to a lot of misinformation that is being displayed the mainstream media (because who pays for this propaganda? Watch the series for the answer).

    You can view all 4 parts at the link below. This link also includes the Transcript, hyperlinks and sources. You can verify everything in the documentary. In short, this is a brilliant MUST documentary of about 2 hours in total. In my humble opinion, this will be the best thing you will see this year.

    Part One: How Bill Gates Monopolized Global Health (23 minutes)

    Part Two: Bill Gates' Plan to Vaccinate the World (28 minutes)

    Part Three: Bill Gates and the Population Control Grid (36 minutes)

    Part Four: Meet Bill Gates (38 minutes)

    Who Is Bill Gates?

    Enjoy and good luck to all!

     

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 2:01pm

    Mike from Jersey

    Mike from Jersey

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    7

    @french-connexion

    french-connexion,

    I wondered about the unemployment numbers as well. It made no sense. I am beginning to feel like I live in the matrix. It seems like I am living in a simulation, rather than a real world.

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 3:48pm

    #13
    robie robinson

    robie robinson

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    Real world existence?

    put in another 150’ row of Beauregard sweet taters. Kelsey is on her game,a Suffolk draft ‘orse.

    next I read headlines and am reminded that I live in a matrix.

    hay is coming into the barn. The garden is gorgeous. Heavy horse will be necessary again. Enjoy Jethro Tull, a prophet. Pls read the lyrics.

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 3:57pm

    #14
    robie robinson

    robie robinson

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    My sincerest apologies for technical ineptitude

    here lies lyrics and a wonderful rendition. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HDYK5SBnVaQ

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 4:03pm

    #15

    sand_puppy

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    Jethro Tull Lyrics from robie

     

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 4:11pm

    #16
    robie robinson

    robie robinson

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    Thanks Boss

    will try to make a video tomorrow of Kelsey and I in the garden. We are not the high input CA. Style. It is horse,chicken,cow,,,,,manure and alotta cultivating. Carbon is fixed in the pastures.

    thanks SP

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 5:32pm

    #17
    Mary59

    Mary59

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    PGP Reporting IN

    Good Evening

    Panama Guinea Pigs reporting in.  All nine of us are still on HCQ and all nine without side effects.  We are on preventive of 400 mg per week.

    One big advantage in my mind to being on HCQ is that it feels like I are taking positive action and when one thinks...Oh my goodness, maybe I slipped up with my mask or got to close to someone of whatever, then if one is on HCQ, one is relieved thinking oh yeah, I'm on something to help lower my risk.  To me, this is of psychological benefit.  Not to say, one should take one iota more of risk, being on HCQ, as to me that is an ethical decision.  It is unethical to take any known risks unless 100% necessary.  At the same time,  it is tough to maintain the centeredness and discipline to be 100% careful all the time.  Taking my little orange pill a week helps me feel a tiny bit more resilient.

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 6:03pm

    #18
    bbroadhead

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    4

    Add racism to the iceberg slide

    Yes, to all the factors below the water line in the iceberg slide and add race as a major contribution to unequal deaths in the black community.

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  • Fri, Jun 05, 2020 - 8:21pm

    #19
    mayerde

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    Statistics confusion?

    Dr. M,

    Where the study shows 13% developed COVID, but only 3% were confirmed by PCR, I take that to mean 3% of total study. Thus, 3%/ 13% = 23% of (reported) infections were confirmed by PCR.

    I find that % change in a value that is a percentage is often confusing, and authors are rarely clear. In this case, if only 3% of infections were confirmed by PCR, that might really call into question the validity of the study.

    So, if my hypothesis is right, it doesn't materially change the punchline, but adds a tad bit of credibility to the testing.

    Thoughts?

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  • Sat, Jun 06, 2020 - 12:17am

    #20
    TamHob

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    re-analysis of Boulware et al HCQ study tends to support very early post-exposure prophylaxis

    For what it's worth, a guy in the linked thread did a back of the envelope reworking of the stats in the Boulware et al HCQ post-exposure prophylaxis study. His reworking indicates that the study data did show a very large decrease in people who developed symptoms if they started HCQ within 1-2 days after exposure (the study reported the stats for people who started within 1-4 days after exposure altogether but broke it down further in table s6 in the Appendix). Unfortunately, the confidence intervals are large due to the small number of participants. If interested it's toward the bottom of this thread under 'Bob's' comments on 5 June https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/06/04/hydroxychloroquine-for-avoiding-infection.

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  • Sat, Jun 06, 2020 - 2:25am

    Rootman

    Rootman

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    Rootman said:

    Looking at table 1 in the Boulware article, I think the similarities between the contol and test group are suspiciously similar for a random study.

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  • Sat, Jun 06, 2020 - 4:58am

    Oliveoilguy

    Status: Gold Member

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    4

    Beauregard Sweet Potatoes

    Hi Robie,

    I planted Beauregard also.....got mine from Tatorman. Been in 3 weeks....Have 3 varieties total. Also Vardamum (sp?) and one other...... 500 plants total. Sweet potatoes and butternut squash are my storage crops.

    Glad you are well!

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  • Sat, Jun 06, 2020 - 5:03am

    davefairtex

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    5

    supporting very early PEP

    TamHob-

    For what it's worth, a guy in the linked thread did a back of the envelope reworking of the stats in the Boulware et al HCQ post-exposure prophylaxis study...

    Yeah I saw a similar comment on a twitter feed - did the math myself - 1-2 days: 9.6% infections (HCQ) vs 15.4% infections (placebo).

    I posted my detailed bits on Jim's HCQ thread.

    If they had more "day 1" participants I suspect they would have found it to be even more effective.

    I'm guessing, as with HIV PEP, "every hour counts."

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  • Sat, Jun 06, 2020 - 5:12am

    Chris Martenson

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    Suspiciously Similar

    Looking at table 1 in the Boulware article, I think the similarities between the contol and test group are suspiciously similar for a random study.

    I pointed that out several times in reviewing their demographics data.  But I didn't want  to cast aspersions on a mere suspicion.  However, given that this wasn't a propensity matched study - just random assignment - I don't believe their n was large enough to give us such eerily similar columns for HCQ and placebo.

    It just...feels too clean.

     

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  • Sat, Jun 06, 2020 - 5:36am

    Chris Martenson

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    Re: Statistics confusion?

    Dr. M,

    Where the study shows 13% developed COVID, but only 3% were confirmed by PCR, I take that to mean 3% of total study. Thus, 3%/ 13% = 23% of (reported) infections were confirmed by PCR.

    I find that % change in a value that is a percentage is often confusing, and authors are rarely clear. In this case, if only 3% of infections were confirmed by PCR, that might really call into question the validity of the study.

    So, if my hypothesis is right, it doesn't materially change the punchline, but adds a tad bit of credibility to the testing.

    Thoughts?

    You make a good point, and here's how I was thinking about it.

    (1) We know that a very large proportion of people who are exposed to covid remain totally asymptomatic.  Still they can be detected via PCR testing.  With this in mind, the total proportion tested matters I think.  Especially if it turned out to be the case that HCQ - or placebo - somehow had greater or fewer proportions of these exposed and infected but asymptomatic people.

    (2) Besides the 3% tested, the other 97% were evaluated on the basis of self-reported symptoms.  It does help that of the people deemed to be probable/possible (P/P) Covid 23% were confirmed by PCR.  What I couldn't find in the discussion, but I may have missed, is if it ever happened that someone was deemed possible/probable but then was excluded because their PCR came back negative.  Did this happen?  Were these study subjects then just chucked back into the negative pile?  That would be good to know as it would allow us to very roughly gauge their false positive rate.  That aside, they had a very low rate of (self-described) symptomatic people who were not classified as covid P/P.

    Just 1.2% (combined, weighted) or 10 people were deemed to have symptoms but not be covid P/P which seems odd to me.  (By the way, it bothers my inner OCD that the Non-Covid related symptoms row is indented when it shouldn't be) out of 117 symptomatic people 107 were deemed Covid-19 and just 10 were deemed not.  Does this make sense?  Would we expect just 10 people out of 821 to have some sort of symptoms  during cold/flu season?  I don't know...but my gut says that's low.

    You know what would really help here?  Testing!

    Bottom line:  I think it's highly relevant that just 3% of the total were tested.

    The more I sit with this study, the less it tells me and the more questions I realize I still have.

     

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  • Sat, Jun 06, 2020 - 5:39am

    000

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    1

    HOOps

    Study published in Lancet has been retracted

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  • Sat, Jun 06, 2020 - 5:44am

    #27
    Prep101

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    another source of information: coronavirus and hydroxychloroquine

    James Todaro, MD, also provides worthwhile information on his Twitter-account regarding the coronavirus and hydroxychloroquine. What he says is in line with what Chris is saying. In my opinion, he's worth checking out:

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  • Sat, Jun 06, 2020 - 5:54am

    #28
    Prep101

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    1

    Lies, Damned Lies and Coronavirus Statistics

    Regarding statistics and the coronavirus, the information in below might provide some very interesting insights:

    Lies, Damned Lies and Coronavirus Statistics

    "The numbers are in on the great Covid-19 pandemic . . . but unfortunately those numbers are unreliable. From mendacious models and puffed-up projections to dodgy death data and tainted tests, today on The Corbett Report James highlights what the accredited scientists and award-winning researchers are saying about the pandemic pandemonium of 2020."

    https://www.corbettreport.com/lies-damned-lies-and-coronavirus-statistics/

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  • Sat, Jun 06, 2020 - 6:35am

    summitday113

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    summitday113 said:

    One possible explanation for the similarities in the two groups is the internet recruitment. I suspect what happened was that the link to sign up for the study was circulated among friends, very possibly within closed facebook groups or other similar groups on other platforms. The link may even have been shared via email.

    I can even imagine a scenario such as "hey, friend- I know you've been exposed to COVID and want HCQ but you can't get it, here's a study where you might be able to get it- sign up with this link".

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  • Sat, Jun 06, 2020 - 7:17am

    #30
    dryam2000

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    Subjectivity leads to non-information

    That HCQ study based off of self-reported data bothers me.  First of all, the % of participants with comorbities is much less than the general population such as those with hypertension.  Both arms of the study were way too healthy.  That raises two questions in my mind.  First, how accurate was the information on comorbities in the first place?  This makes me inherently question all of the self-reported data.  Second, it is already known CV-19 greatly spares those without chronic illnesses.  Ideally, treatment research should be focused on those who are more affected by CV-19.  Doing a study in healthy 25 year olds is not going to be very beneficial, but doing it on 50 year olds with comorbities would be very beneficial.  This study was slanted towards a group of relatively healthy individuals for some reason.   The meat of this study was based of off very subjective symptomatology from self-reporting.  From my experience in caring for patients for close to 20 years patients oftentimes have difficulty answering seemingly simple yes/no questions when I’m taking their history.  Many times it goes something like this.... “Were you short of breath?”.....”Hmmm, I’m not sure.  I could have been.  I think I might have had a little heaviness in my chest, but I’m not sure if I was having difficulty breathing.  I really don’t know.”  Our minds can easily play tricks on us.  Whatever you do don’t think about your face itching.  Sure enough, many peoples faces will itch all day long if they keep thinking that thought.   As Chris has mentioned there was a gross lack of testing, and consequently a gross lack of objective data in this study.  When there’s potential error multiplied by potential error multiplied by potential error, etc. then any potential conclusions can get pretty wonky fairly quickly.  I don’t feel there is any meaningful conclusions that can be drawn from this study.  It’s just another piece of non-information.

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  • Sat, Jun 06, 2020 - 9:35am

    davefairtex

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    PEP study participants from social media

    dryam-

    The PEP study participants were recruited (I believe) on social media, so I'm guessing the audience there would skew younger.  I saw Boulware reference a facebook ad he placed, for instance.  And he posted tweets every day or so recruiting people there too.

    His twitter feed:

    https://twitter.com/boulware_dr

    I got the sense he had to scrounge around for funding, since NIH was unwilling to come up with a penny.  [That, from  his twitter feed also]

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  • Sat, Jun 06, 2020 - 12:54pm

    #32
    nordicjack

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    covid fatigue

    Anyone else experiencing it?  And I don't me information overload.  I am talking about at first yeah,  masks, preps, distancing  - we can do this.     Now, even though you know it still needs to be done,  you start to say, this is taking a lot of extra effort to do things that should come easy..   It becomes exhausting,  maybe its just me because i am disabled.?

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  • Sat, Jun 06, 2020 - 12:57pm

    nordicjack

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    pep study

    when you dont actually test the majority of people and only go by (subjective) clinical presentation, the study becomes pretty much useless.

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  • Sat, Jun 06, 2020 - 7:49pm

    #34

    sofistek

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    HCQ and science

    A Twitter thread about the failure of science, wrt HCQ.

    The Recovery trial has a home page, which has a link to the statement about HCQ. But it looks like only hospitalized cases were enrolled, so fairly useless as an anti-viral and hardly surprising that no effect was seen. No mention of zinc, no use of azithromycin in combination with HCQ (az was a separate treatment). The bad science continues.

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  • Sun, Jun 07, 2020 - 4:41am

    #35
    Mohammed Mast

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    The Propaganda is everywhere

    This is from Andy Borowitz in the New Yorker.

    https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/trump-optimistic-about-winning-nobel-prize-in-medicine?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=onsite-share&utm_brand=the-new-yorker&utm_social-type=earned&fbclid=IwAR3dBcfcJDMzi9V55S8h3-2QW-Yq_THXHmODdpa1JT1zQqrGniMi84fp8aI

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  • Sun, Jun 07, 2020 - 5:15am

    VTGothic

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    Thanks for this!

    I've been thinking about adding sweet potatoes to my garden, OliveOilGuy, and your post tipped me over; I just place my first order! Here in the mountain spine of central Vermont, it's just now planting time for main season field crops, so the timing's good, too.

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  • Sun, Jun 07, 2020 - 12:54pm

    #37
    Mike from Jersey

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    Lancet Study

    About the Lancet study:

    "A data analytics firm behind an influential - and now retracted Lancet study which concluded that Hydroxychloroquine is dangerous, has one employee and is headquartered in a residential house just west of Chicago. Yet its bogus data prompted the World Health Organization, the UK and France to halt clinical trial programs involving the controversial drug used to treat COVID-19."

    https://www.zerohedge.com/health/dodgy-data-firm-behind-retracted-hydroxychloroquine-study-raises-questions-over-haphazard

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  • Mon, Jun 08, 2020 - 10:23am

    #38
    yagasjai

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    How Long Do You Leave Mail Before Opening?

    I would like to know what the current thinking on this site in terms of what protocols people are currently using for making things safe that come into the house. For example, how long do you wait to:

    -open your mail after you get it out of your mailbox?

    -open a package from Amazon?

    -handle non-perishable food items from the store?

    In our house, the answer to all of the above is 9 days, unless something absolutely is needed before then, in which case it is properly cleaned (for example, all veggies get soaked in a light bleach solution for at least 20 min before being dried and put in the fridge).

    And yet, when I speak with my friends and family, who don't follow this site, they think I'm nuts. Even though the longest the virus is known to survive on a surface is 9 days and I'm following the precautionary principle, which is to take the precautions until it's proved that they are not needed. Is there now enough evidence now to prove we don't have to wait 9 days- for things like mail and groceries?

    Early podcasts and videos from CM indicated to treat everything like it was covered toxic waste. Then this study came out on April 16th from NEJM saying that Covid-19 can only survive on plastic up to 72 hours, stainless steel up to 48 hours and cardboard up to 24 hours. Yet discussions on this site were still indicating people were waiting 9 days, at least for rotating masks. It was not clear to me if people adjusted the time frames for other things like mail (1 day?), packages (3 days?) or non-perishable groceries (3 days?)

    Then, May 29th, this article came out indicating that the CDC is now saying that it's not nearly as likely that it's transmitted by surface contact as we originally thought. Is this more BS from the CDC? Or can we relax our protocols? Is there enough evidence now to prove it's ok to wait less than 9 days? I would greatly appreciate input from Chris, Adam or others on this site if you have adjusted your thinking about surface contagion at all, especially in the last month or so. Is there any other evidence that has come out recently about this topic that I am missing?

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  • Mon, Jun 08, 2020 - 3:57pm

    sofistek

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 02 2008

    Posts: 762

    1

    9 Days

    I believe that the "9 days" principle was because of prior research into how long other coronaviruses remained viable on different surfaces, with 9 days being the longest. However, I seem to recall that more recent work with SARS-Cov-2 suggests that 3 days is the longest it survives, though I don't recall the material concerned.

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  • Mon, Jun 08, 2020 - 4:09pm

    #40

    sofistek

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 02 2008

    Posts: 762

    3

    What next for NZ

    Well, here in New Zealand, we've beaten the virus ... for now. Active cases zero and no new confirmed cases for 17 days. All restrictions have been lifted apart from the border restrictions. Apart from a few exceptions that are granted from time to time, only New Zealand citizens and residents are allowed into the country and all arrivals have to be quarantined for a minimum 14 days, with (starting this week) at least two tests during the quarantine period.

    So, now we apparently live virus free until we open our borders, though that's likely to be a phased approach (probably by allowing citizens of  virus free countries to travel here), at some undefined time in the future.

    We got lucky, though some leadership and community buy in were also significant factors.

    What now?

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  • Mon, Jun 08, 2020 - 5:49pm

    #41
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 786

    1

    They are Still Circling the Wagons

    If a study comes out saying it was made in a lab, in a nano second the swarm descends.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidnikel/2020/06/07/norway-scientist-claims-report-proves-coronavirus-was-lab-made/?utm_campaign=forbes&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_term=Valerie%2F&fbclid=IwAR3WA7JNKHHOgxDqeVs1gSeXjnLmnaCtQK4wRwxiBDAjB1RBonFlJv13w-8#3ed7366e121d

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  • Mon, Jun 08, 2020 - 6:01pm

    JWhite

    JWhite

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 12 2016

    Posts: 119

    1

    Replying to How Long Do You Leave Mail Before Opening?

    Yagasjai – For mail, cardboard boxes and non-perishable food contained in paper or cardboard, we are leaving them in the ‘red zone’ in the front hall for at least 24 hours before opening them or putting them away. Items in glass /plastic / metal are cleaned with a .3 % bleach solution before being put away. For steel or other metal objects (such as door knobs) we are cleaning these with a 70% ethyl alcohol solution, which we also use as hand sanitizer. We are doing the same as you in terms of soaking fresh fruits and vegetables in a bleach solution, and then letting them air dry. For masks, we are still following Chris’ initial advice and putting them in a clear plastic bag with a note showing the date used, and we add 10 days to show the date it can be reused (it’s easier to simply add 10 to the current date). I think the reason for the 9 days was that it was unknown how long the Sars-Cov2 virus lasts on fabric and mixed materials. So far I haven’t seen any studies showing the length of time the virus remains viable on these surfaces so we are still using the maximum, ‘9 day’ rule for anything we’re not sure of. I also haven’t seen any studies showing how long the virus remains on food.

    The CDC information doesn’t change any precautions we’re taking regarding surfaces. For us, there are still new virus cases every week in our area, so it doesn’t seem safe to relax anything we’re doing yet, and we’ll keep an eye on the case numbers as shops and restaurants have recently opened again and governments are encouraging tourist travel to resume for the summer. It may be different in your area. But the other thing to consider is that even if cases have come down to zero in your area, you may not know what the situation is at the origin of your food, Amazon boxes, mail, the delivery people etc. My thought is that for the time being, it’s better to be safe than sorry!

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  • Mon, Jun 08, 2020 - 7:12pm

    #43
    Rupisnark

    Rupisnark

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 02 2020

    Posts: 2

    1

    Hydroxychloroquine Study You Review - details show it does work (if taken early)

    Another study that claims to show that Hydroxychloriquine does not work. Turns out when data analysed properly, if given early it does work. This (in French) from France Soir debunks the conclusions of the study that said it didn't work. http://www.francesoir.fr/societe-sante/le-diable-est-vraiment-dans-le-detail-apres-lancet-nous-remettons-en-cause-le-new.  Are we seeing a pattern of fraud and deception here?

    Rupisnark (sorry this is the name I wish to use... its getting too dangerous to speak the truth using real name).

    Keep up the great work Chris.

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  • Mon, Jun 08, 2020 - 8:07pm

    yagasjai

    yagasjai

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 18 2009

    Posts: 120

    0

    JWhite- Thank you!

    All the details of how you handle different things is very helpful! I love the adding 10 days because it's simpler than adding 9. This sentence made me LOL: "The CDC information doesn’t change any precautions we’re taking." I am also watching the local cases here, and am concerned about the next wave in relation to protests. I agree, that being pro-active and possibly overly-cautious is preferable, and at the same time am trying to balance things like, particularly mail, which sometimes I don't pick up for a week at a time (I go out as little as possible still). And then if it sits another 9 days, that's over 2 weeks before we get to things. I live with an 80 year old who is not comfortable doing bills online, so the mail has been a source of tension that I'm looking to reduce if at all possible.

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  • Wed, Jun 10, 2020 - 1:11am

    #45

    Locksmithuk

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Dec 19 2011

    Posts: 124

    4

    The Lancet & Surgisphere

    What an awful, awful, self-inflicted black eye by The Lancet.

     

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/10/surgisphere-sapan-desai-lancet-study-hydroxychloroquine-mass-audit-scientific-papers

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  • Wed, Jun 10, 2020 - 1:40am

    #46
    French connexion

    French connexion

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Mar 26 2020

    Posts: 200

    4

    the Weight of Justice

    Posting here vis à vis your latest blog on You Tube (but not yet on the site).

    I am not a talented searcher like you Chris, but please put in your perspective that Oliver Véran, our health minister, took less than 24 hours to place an interdiction on all HCQ studies. I typed in a Google search to see if - in light of the news - to see if he had a change of heart.

    Apparently 7 days ago he asked for the data from the study:

    https://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/societe/sante/hydroxychloroquine-olivier-veran-a-ecrit-a-the-lancet-au-sujet-de-l-etude-controversee_2127377.html

    As time goes by the smell of this dossier and the ire of a growing number of people will kick these "puppets" into alinement with the facts.

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  • Wed, Jun 10, 2020 - 2:00am

    #47
    French connexion

    French connexion

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Mar 26 2020

    Posts: 200

    4

    the Hammer of Justice

    And to let people know, French doctors are now organizing to attack ministers of the French government for gross negligence; for meddling  "abuse of power" in the relation patient doctor - not taking into account two articles of French law allowing the delivery of health care in conformity according to information at hand and conscientious to the needs of the patient - that doctors should have the liberty to prescribe according to their best judgment of the needs of the patient.

    https://www.egora.fr/actus-pro/conditions-d-exercice/59569-plus-de-40-medecins-attaquent-veran-buzyn-philippe-et-salomon

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