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    The Road To War With Russia

    We're not only on it; we've already arrived
    by Chris Martenson

    Thursday, January 8, 2015, 5:09 PM

For several weeks now the anti-Russian stance in the US press has quieted down. Presumably because the political leadership has moved its attention on to other things, and the media flock has followed suit. 

Have you read much about Ukraine and Russia recently?

I thought not, despite the fact that there's plenty of serious action — both there as well as related activity in the US — going on that deserves our careful attention.

As I recently wrote, the plunging oil price is a potential catalyst for stock market turmoil and sovereign instability. Venezuela is already circling the drain, and numerous other oil exporters are in deep trouble as they foolishly expanded their national budgets and social programs to match the price of oil; something that is easy to do on the way up and devilishly tricky on the way down.

But consider the impact on Russia. From the Russian point of view, everything from their plunging ruble to bitter sanctions to the falling price of oil are the fault of the US, either directly or indirectly. Whether that is fair or not is irrelevant; that's the view of the Russians right now. So no surprise,  it doesn't dispose them towards much in the way of good-will towards the West generally, and the US specifically.

The fall in the price of oil is creating serious difficulties economically and financially for Russia. We'll get to those facets in a minute. But right now, I want to focus on the continued belligerence of the US towards Russia — some of which is overt and some of which, you can be certain, is covert — which could very well end up provoking a more kinetic and dangerous response than the West is prepared for.

Russia Forced To Act

Before anyone jumps in to say "Why are you defending Putin? He's a bad man", let me just say that I have been closely analyzing each move by Russia and the West since then President of Ukraine Yanukovych declined to sign the European Association Agreement back in November of 2013. 

Based on the preponderance of evidence, its' clear to me that the West/US deserve the lion's share of the blame for the conflict that now rages with Ukraine and between Russia and the western world.

It was the West that supported the unsavory assortment of thugs, neo-Nazis, and ultra-nationalists that seized power in a coup from the democratically-elected Yanukovych.  We can argue all we want about whether he was a good boy or not, but that's irrelevant and plays into the hands of those at the US State Department who would like to deflect attention away from the very non-democratic events (shaped behind the scenes by our influence) that led to his overthrow.

The US did the same thing with Saddam, if you recall. It's a simple deflection: away from the actions of the US, and towards the character of the person standing in the line of fire from those actions.

In my view, if Yanukovych had not been violently deposed, Ukraine would be peaceful right now, Russia would not have had to intervene, and there would be no civil war in Ukraine and far reduced tensions between the West and Russia.

So ham-handed were those efforts to intervene in Ukraine on the part of the Obama State department that no less an historically loathsome creature than Henry Kissinger even called the US's actions a 'fatal mistake':

Kissinger warns of West’s ‘fatal mistake’ that may lead to new Cold War

Nov 10, 2014

Former US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger has given a chilling assessment of a new geopolitical situation taking shape amid the Ukrainian crisis, warning of a possible new Cold War and calling the West’s approach to the crisis a “fatal mistake.”

The 91-year-old diplomat characterized the tense relations as exhibiting the danger of “another Cold War.”

“This danger does exist and we can't ignore it,” Kissinger said. He warned that ignoring this danger any further may result in a tragedy,” he told Germany’s Der Spiegel.

(Source)

When even Henry Kissinger thinks you've been too reckless in the application of raw power, you've over done it.

So given the timeline of the events that have led to the frostiest US-Russian relations since the depths of the cold war, I am of the view that Russia has been actually quite restrained and has not over reacted to any of the numerous provocations.

Despite the lull in front page reporting of the Russian situation, there remains a careful program of steady anti-Russian propaganda running through the western press.

It Takes Two To Tango

prop·a·gan·da

ˌpräpəˈɡandə/

Noun  – derogatory

Information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.

For propaganda to work well, there needs to be tight coordination between the State and the press.  The role of the press is to first publish the propaganda, and second, to neglect to look into it or report on anything that might call it into question. Sins of omission and commission are both required.

The good news is that the internet is a great equalizing force and we can readily unearth inconvenient facts with a little digging that blunt the propaganda. The bad news is that a lot of people still get all their news from so-called 'official' sources.

At any rate, here's a first-rate piece of unadulterated propaganda courtesy of Bloomberg.  Note that it was printed on Dec 31, one of several very quiet news days where little debate is likely to happen:

Inside Obama’s Secret Outreach to Russia

Dec 31, 2014

President Barack Obama's administration has been working behind the scenes for months to forge a new working relationship with Russia, despite the fact that Russian President Vladimir Putin has shown little interest in repairing relations with Washington or halting his aggression in neighboring Ukraine.

In several conversations with Lavrov, Kerry has floated an offer to Russia that would pave the way for a partial release of some of the most onerous economic sanctions. Kerry’s conditions included Russia adhering to September's Minsk agreement and ceasing direct military support for the Ukrainian separatists. 

(Source)

The tenor of this piece is set. It's the US that is trying to be reasonable, but Russia has shown little interest in repairing relations. That's one assertion.

Another is that Russia has been providing direct military support for the separatists in neighboring Ukraine. And yet another that Putin himself has shown little interest in halting his aggression. 

That's the main narrative that the US wants to put forward. Putin is a bad guy. Like Saddam…remember him?  The US is the one being reasonable here, according to this piece, and it'is Russia that has been fomenting the troubles.

The US narrative goes further, repeatedly claiming that Russia has been supplying major arms to the separatists, as we see here from early December 2014:

U.S. Says Russia Arms Ukraine Rebels, OSCE Wary on Truce

Dec 2, 2014

North Atlantic Treaty Organization Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg accused Russia of sending tanks, advanced air-defense systems and other heavy weapons across the border to Ukrainian rebels.

Russia denies involvement in the conflict.

“Since the Sept. 5 Minsk cease-fire agreement, Russia has funneled several hundred” tanks, armed personnel carriers, and other military vehicles directly to pro-Russian separatists in Ukraine, Kerry said.

Russian military forces still operate inside eastern Ukraine where they provide “command and control” for the separatists they back, he added.

(Source)

The charge from the Secretary General of NATO and from John Kerry of the US State department is that Russia has military forces inside Ukraine, and that they've funneled hundreds of tanks, APCs, and other military vehicles numbering in the hundreds.

As with the MH-17 disaster, we have to call this another case of the dog that did not bark.

Where are the pictures? 

The sorts of weaponry being claimed here are impossible to conceal from the air.

Snapping high resolution photos of such things is child's play for today's military satellites, and even civilian ones, too.

Accusing a major world power of action this brash should require at least some demonstration of proof. Especially after the WMD warning fiasco that played out at the UN leading up to the Bush II Iraq invasion. The least you could do is provide a few pictures of said military vehicles and heavy weaponry.

But there are none.  And the reason none have been offered is because none exist.  If they did, you can be 100% certain they'd be released and replayed over and over again on CNN until everybody and their uncle could distinguish a T-72 tank outline from a Russian made APC.

About Those 'Unwilling' Russians

Let's look more closely at the reasons why Russia may not exactly be in a conciliatory mood towards the US at this moment in time.

With just our short-term memories, we can recall that the US Congress passed a serious piece of anti-Russian resolution last month that can easily be seen as a declaration of war by a reasonable person.

This unfortunate piece of legislation, H.Res. 758, was passed on December 4, 2014 and is titled "Strongly condemning the actions of the Russian Federation, under President Vladimir Putin, which has carried out a policy of aggression against neighboring countries aimed at political and economic domination."

Ron Paul expressed the problems with this resolution very well:

Reckless Congress 'Declares War' on Russia

Dec 4, 2014

These are the kinds of resolutions I have always watched closely in Congress, as what are billed as “harmless” statements of opinion often lead to sanctions and war. I remember in 1998 arguing strongly against the Iraq Liberation Act because, as I said at the time, I knew it would lead to war. I did not oppose the Act because I was an admirer of Saddam Hussein – just as now I am not an admirer of Putin or any foreign political leader – but rather because I knew then that another war against Iraq would not solve the problems and would probably make things worse. We all know what happened next.

That is why I can hardly believe they are getting away with it again, and this time with even higher stakes: provoking a war with Russia that could result in total destruction!

If anyone thinks I am exaggerating about how bad this resolution really is, let me just offer a few examples from the legislation itself:

The resolution (paragraph 3) accuses Russia of an invasion of Ukraine and condemns Russia’s violation of Ukrainian sovereignty. The statement is offered without any proof of such a thing. Surely with our sophisticated satellites that can read a license plate from space we should have video and pictures of this Russian invasion. None have been offered.

As to Russia’s violation of Ukrainian sovereignty, why isn’t it a violation of Ukraine’s sovereignty for the US to participate in the overthrow of that country’s elected government as it did in February? We have all heard the tapes of State Department officials plotting with the US Ambassador in Ukraine to overthrow the government. We heard US Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland bragging that the US spent $5 billion on regime change in Ukraine. Why is that OK? 

The resolution (paragraph 11) accuses the people in east Ukraine of holding “fraudulent and illegal elections” in November. Why is it that every time elections do not produce the results desired by the US government they are called “illegal” and “fraudulent”? Aren’t the people of eastern Ukraine allowed self-determination? Isn’t that a basic human right?

The resolution (paragraph 13) demands a withdrawal of Russia forces from Ukraine even though the US government has provided no evidence the Russian army was ever in Ukraine. This paragraph also urges the government in Kiev to resume military operations against the eastern regions seeking independence.

(Source)

If the tables were turned, and it was the Russian lawmakers passing a resolution condemning the US for a variety of illegal activities for which exactly zero proof was offered, I think we all know just how ablaze with indignity the US political leadership would be.

Think of this from Russia's perspective.  They know perfectly well all of the things the Honorable Ron Paul speaks of are true.  There was an illegal coup followed by legal elections.  The US recognizes the former as legitimate but the latter as illegal, and then speaks loudly about the importance of spreading democracy.

Worse, the US keeps mandating that a key condition of lifting its anti-Russian sanctions is for Russia to leave Ukraine militarily and to stop shipping lots of heavy armaments there. But it has, as of today, provided exactly zero pieces of hard evidence to support those accusations.

As bad as this legislation was, the US Senate upped the ante just one week later on Dec 11, 2014 with Act, S.2828 The Ukraine Freedom Support Act of 2014:

US-NATO Delivering Arms to Ukraine. The Planning of Aggression against Russia

Dec 15, 2014

The Ukraine Freedom Support Act (UFSA) of 2014 authorizes lethal and non-lethal aid. Besides what’s already being supplied.

Including communications equipment. Body armor. Night vision goggles. Humvees. Radar. Counter-mortar detection units. Binoculars. Small boats. Various other gear.

Sniper and assault rifles. Hand grenade launchers. Mortars and shells. Stingers. Anti-tank missiles. What’s known may be the tip of the iceberg.

UFSA legislation “authoriz(ing) (Obama) to provide defense articles, defense services, and training to the Government of Ukraine for the purpose of countering offensive weapons and reestablishing the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine…”

“(I)ncluding anti-tank and anti-armor weapons, crew weapons and ammunition, counter-artillery radars to identify and target artillery batteries, fire control, range finder, and optical and guidance and control equipment, tactical troop-operated surveillance drones, and secure command and communications equipment.”

(Source)

After chiding Russia for supplying military aid, for which the US has provided no solid evidence in support of that claim, the US has passed an Act designed to funnel all sorts of military aid to the ruling powers in Kiev. 

This could just as easily have been labeled the "Do As We Say, Not As We Do" Act.  For some reason, the Russians are not too impressed with that approach.

Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman Alexander Lukashevich said in response:

“Both houses of the US Congress have approved the Ukraine Freedom Support Act bypassing debates and proper voting. The overtly confrontational message of the new law cannot but evoke profound regret.”

“Once again Washington is leveling baseless sweeping accusations against Russia and threatening more sanctions. At the same time it is muddling together the Ukrainian and Syrian conflicts, which the United States has been instrumental in inflating. It even refers to the INF Treaty although American compliance with it is questionable, to put it mildly.

At the same time, it promises to Kiev to arm its military operation in Donbass and openly admits that it intends to use NGOs for an impact on Russia’s domestic processes.”

“Though it appears that major challenges to international security demand pooled Russian and American efforts, US legislators follow President Obama’s administration destroying the very foundation of partnership. Bilateral relations are being torpedoed no less powerfully than by the notorious Jackson-Vanik amendment, endorsed in 1974 to obstruct cooperation for several decades. We cannot but conclude that, blinded by outdated phobias, the United States is anxious to reverse time. As the US Congress instigates anti-Russian sanctions, it should part with the illusion of their effect. Russia will not be intimidated into giving up its interests and tolerating interference in its internal affairs.

(Source)

The really bizarre part of this story is that I cannot yet find any credible analysis or commentary explaining exactly what the US's compelling interests are in Ukraine, nor what the end goal might be. It's all something of a mystery, compounded substantially by the fact that Russia can be a very powerful ally or enemy to have.  Why not choose ally? Why choose enemy?

On the flip side, we have lots of compelling evidence that the US has a serious plan in place to weaken and destabilize Russia. The tactics we're using would certainly be considered acts of war by the US were the circumstances reversed.

As one Russian observer put it:

Both US Assistant-Secretary of State Victoria Nuland — the wife of the Project for the New American Century (PNAC) co-founder and neo-conservative advocate for empire Robert Kagan — and US Assistant-Secretary of the Treasury Daniel Glaser told the Foreign Affairs Committee of the US House of Representatives in May 2014 that the objectives of the US economic sanctions strategy against the Russian Federation was not only to damage the trade ties and business between Russia and the EU, but to also bring about economic instability in Russia and to create currency instability and inflation. [5] In other words, the US government was targeting the Russian ruble for devaluation and the Russian economy for inflation since at least May 2014.

The United States is waging a fully fledged economic war against the Russian Federations and its national economy. Ultimately, all Russians are collectively the target. The economic sanctions are nothing more than economic warfare. If the crisis in Ukraine did not happen, another pretext would have been found for assaulting Russia.

Both US Assistant-Secretary of State Victoria Nuland and US Assistant-Secretary of the Treasury Daniel Glaser even told the Foreign Affairs Committee of the US House of Representatives in May 2014 that the ultimate objectives of the US economic sanctions against Russia are to make the Russian population so miserable and desperate that they would eventually demand that the Kremlin surrender to the US and bring about "political change". "Political change" can mean many things, but what it most probably implies here is regime change in Moscow.

In fact, the aims of the US do not even appear to be geared at coercing the Russian government to change its foreign policy, but to incite regime change in Moscow and to cripple the Russian Federation entirely through the instigation of internal divisions.

This is why maps of a divided Russia are being circulated by Radio Free Europe. [17]

(Source)

We Not On A Road To War, We've Already Arrived

If it looks like a war, acts like a war and smells like a war, it may just be a war.  The US has been waging economic, financial, trade, political and even kinetic war-by-proxy against Russia.  The only question is why?

From the perspective of Russians it seems clear that neocons are driving the US ship of state, and that they are simply not the sort of people with whom you negotiate in good faith or whom you trust.  The neocons believe they have the upper hand, they are part of the most powerful country on earth, and they never negotiate preferring to dictate.

The only problem is, the US is rapidly losing allies and friends the world over and it's not nearly as powerful as it used to be, thanks to a profound failure to invest in itself (education, infrastructure, etc)

In Part 2: Why No One Should Want This To Devolve Further, we analyze the most likely responses the West's bear-baiting will generate from Russia. The short story is this: in none of the outcomes will there be clear victors.

There is simply no good rationale for the geo-political risks being taken right now. Leaving us with the critical question: Why are we willing to let our leaders play nuclear "Russian roulette", for stakes we don't agree with?

Click here to access Part 2 of this report (free executive summary; enrollment required for full access)

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83 Comments

  • Thu, Jan 08, 2015 - 6:45pm

    #1

    Karl Klein

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 25 2008

    Posts: 8

    Sad State of Affairs

    I would like to share this article with friends and colleagues, but thanks to the attention spans of most of them, it would be pointless.  

    Which directly supports the summary in the third paragraph from the end regarding the historical lack of investment in infrastructure and education.  

    Sometimes you get what you deserve and I think the chickens coming home to roost this year are, in many cases, deserved.

    I did really like this line:

    "So ham-handed were those efforts to intervene in Ukraine on the part of the Obama State department that no less an historically loathsome creature than Henry Kissinger even called the US's actions a 'fatal mistake':"

    KK

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  • Thu, Jan 08, 2015 - 7:28pm

    #2
    phildenn

    phildenn

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    Joined: Sep 02 2009

    Posts: 0

    The objective

    Covertly, I think the reason is that Putin wants to end hegemony of the US dollar as the world's reserve currency, hence he must go. Look at the last two guys who tried to do that (Saddam and Gaddafi). Scary stuff. Looking forward to reading Part II this evening. Happy new year to all at PP.

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  • Thu, Jan 08, 2015 - 10:28pm

    Reply to #1

    apismellifera

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jul 08 2010

    Posts: 33

    Much the same reaction

    Hadn't run across the Kissinger comment before, but I had much the same reaction last  year when I ran across Ukraine articles by both Pat Buchanan (who asks, pointedly, "Is Putin worse than Stalin?" ) and David Stockman. Though very different, both these men are the kind of old-school "conservatives" my father might have voted for– and they both think the game that the US govt. is playing now is pure folly. 
    I feel like I'm watching a slow-motion train wreck, and nobody around me even knows the train has gone off the rails.  Heck, nobody even knows there's a train in the area.

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  • Thu, Jan 08, 2015 - 11:23pm

    #3
    efarmer.ny

    efarmer.ny

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 07 2012

    Posts: 5

    EAEU proposal to EU

    Is it safe to assume the Peak Prosperity community has seen that Russia's EuroAsian Economic Union is making overtures to the European Union?

    Which is why we read the following report written in yesterday’s Deutsche Wirtschafts Nachrichten with great interest because it goes right to the bottom line. In it Russia has a not so modest proposal to Europe: dump trade with the US, whose call for Russian “costs” has cost you another year of declining economic growth, and instead join the Eurasian Economic Union! From the source:

    Russia has presented a startling proposal to overcome the tensions with the EU: The EU should renounce the free trade agreement with the United States TTIP and enter into a partnership with the newly established Eurasian Economic Union instead. A free trade zone with the neighbors would make more sense than a deal with the US.

    Source

     

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  • Thu, Jan 08, 2015 - 11:24pm

    #4
    denc

    denc

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2014

    Posts: 3

    What can I do? My own little action plan for 2015

    To quote kwklein above: "I would like to share this article with friends and colleagues, but thanks to the attention spans of most of them, it would be pointless"……..I share your sentiment (and I suspect your frustration in that statement).  Simply forwarding this excellent article of Chris' (or the many well thought out and well written discussions available in this regard) has at best, a very low probability of penetrating or hitting the mark with the effectiveness required.

    Unfortunately, I do not have a blog or twitter account where I am widely and systematically read, so what can I (personally) do about this geo political war mongering madness in the face of the tidal wave of mainstream mis information?  My "vote" is pretty much useless at this stage.

    Well, here is something to consider.  I earn my living in financial services, and I have professional client relationships that span decades with many families.  I have "Trust Capital" with many (most) of these families, and (I believe) that I also have trust capital with several friends, family, and community colleagues that I do not have business ties with.  So, if I have trust capital, and that trust capital provides for due attention and due consideration of my speaking points…..I can indeed make a difference!  If I am willing to invest 1 hour of my time with a family, or a friend, or a client (where my trust capital in geo political affairs is likely at it's highest), and I draw their attention to these concerns and observations…….some of my efforts will hit the mark and stimulate further independent investigation and consideration.  If I do this 20 times this year, with well selected prospects, I know that I will stimulate at least a certain percentage of these folks into deeper personal investigation.  Once these clients, friends, colleagues are "stimulated" into further personal investigation, I will of course be in a perfect position to refer them the very best material and discussions (like Peak Prosperity) to move forward with.  In reflecting on my own "awakening" experience in this regard…..I know that once the ideas we speak of here have taken root……there is a dog on a bone type thing that happens…….and they will grow and flourish of their own accord.  At this point, or at least at some point down the road, I will also be in a position to gently nudge these "newly engaged" individuals into personal advocacy of some kind (in their own way).

    Maybe I have more power than I think I do from "trust capital"  that was earned elsewhere?  Twenty meetings for twenty hours over 2015….. I can do that……and man, this item is worth my time if anything that I've ever advocated ever was.  Even with a modest 10% wake em up success rate over my 20 for 2015 visits……I am making real change happen…..one family at a time.  And with a little nurturing…..it will compound from there.  I don't know the PP history in detail….but I'm betting that this is how this community was built by Chris and Adam et al early on.

    What if dozens, or even hundreds of us adopted this same basic idea of taking advantage of our hard earned trust capital (each in our own way)?  Waste of time?  No way.  Even if my success rate in "getting through" is zero……I will have the peace of knowing that I sincerely tried to engage.

     

     

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  • Thu, Jan 08, 2015 - 11:33pm

    #5
    greered

    greered

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 25 2008

    Posts: 6

    War with Russia

    Been following it also and agree.

    Perhaps if our government and the money masters begin to see the public becoming wise to their machinations, this immediate danger can be avoided.  There is an obvious desire by the money cartel(s?) to increase their influence in Russia so they can continue their push toward the NWO.

    Great article. 

     

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  • Thu, Jan 08, 2015 - 11:46pm

    #6
    Abandon Ship

    Abandon Ship

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 21 2009

    Posts: 19

    If your policies have failed - find someone else to blame

    The reasoning behind provoking Russia may be quite simple – you just need to be cynical, like a politician. The US knows that its QE has failed; it knows that Europe is on the brink of recession and perhaps collapse depending on Greece; it knows that Japan cannot stimulate its economy back into growth; it knows that it has blown the biggest "everything" bubble ever. The bottom line is that it knows that all of the economic voodoo inflicted upon the western world by the central planners has failed. The next stage may well be a collapse of catastrophic proportions that brings the whole banking system to its knees. If this were to happen then the public would blame the central planners because of the clear causal link between their policies and economic failure. The political and banking status quo would be threatened.

    But what if there were an "aggressor" that could be blamed for an economic war or worse a shooting war? Then the collapse could be allowed to happen, perhaps even given a little push and the ultimate blame could be attributed to the aggressor. Russia fits the bill of this aggressor perfectly.

    The US economy has been goosed into looking as though it might be recovering. We all know that the green shoots of recovery stem from fudged numbers and so the illusion of recovery has a sell by date. Hence the US must provoke the aggressor to launch an economic counter attack before the illusion of US economic recovery is exposed.

    If the above is the case, then it would explain Russia's restraint. All Russia has to do it wait and do nothing. The "prize" for Russia will be western economic recession and political turmoil. Russia, being tough and resilient (in my view all western nations are anything but tough and resilient) will be in a strong position relative to the west.

    So, provoking Russia into a an economic counter attack would provide the cover that the status quo need to hide behind to allow the inevitable collapse to take place. In the end there must be a collapse to expunge all of the malinvestment and fictitious asset pricing.

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  • Fri, Jan 09, 2015 - 12:49am

    #7

    tricky rick

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Dec 09 2011

    Posts: 70

    the blame game...putin putin, po putin..banana ...rama...

    Denc… good for you and go for it …but afraid it'll be mostly for your self-esteem… Proselytizing truth (or even a different viewpoint) now days … in a twitter environment?  I'm thinking more luck uncovering believers using cold calls and the Amway 365 approach.

    Abandon ship:  How-some-ever clever folks attempt to be, it usually gets right down to the basic CYA.

    Right on with your thoughts and what a flippin' shame those that deserve it will mostly get a pass…the best we can hope for is they go down with us all!

     

     

     

     

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  • Fri, Jan 09, 2015 - 1:27am

    #8

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    Putin's Tango with a fragile Old Lady.

    I got half way through this page and my dander was up.

    What is glaringly obvious to an outside observer is that the USA is not immune to divide and conquer. It would not surprise me if the Russians sent some agent provocateurs to a racially divided city near you.

    That they haven't can be viewed as an act of restraint. Putin is trying to further the interests of his people. Nuland is not.

    Don't think that you can spark a race war? How about igniting a class war? That should be a cinch. There are just so many ways for Putin to lead this tango.

     

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  • Fri, Jan 09, 2015 - 6:50am

    Reply to #8
    ian.k

    ian.k

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Sep 23 2008

    Posts: 13

    Danders

    Your dander may be up , what ever that means, but Putin is not the issue. The issue is that the USA is leading the charge to Nuclear War, with no winners possible. There is no divide and conquer when the world is a wasteland. 

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  • Fri, Jan 09, 2015 - 6:50am

    Reply to #8
    ian.k

    ian.k

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Sep 23 2008

    Posts: 13

    Danders

    Your dander may be up , what ever that means, but Putin is not the issue. The issue is that the USA is leading the charge to Nuclear War, with no winners possible. There is no divide and conquer when the world is a wasteland. 

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  • Fri, Jan 09, 2015 - 7:56am

    #9
    David Allan

    David Allan

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Nov 15 2009

    Posts: 27

    Great sentiments Denc

    Great sentiments Denc. I used this approach myself about 5 years ago (re limits to growth in general) . People could see the logic and generally agreed in principle. But no-one did anything. And within a fortnight they'd completely forgotten about our chat.

    The issue is that people are are unable to take on board and integrate factual information that conflicts with their core beliefs. This is basically why the human race is going to be smashed down or completely wiped from the face of the planet. IMHO

    PS. To introduce a more hopeful perspective to this comment I'll say I am no longer a business professional. We moved to the country and I'm now a small block farmer, orchardist and gardener and have a part-time business helping others set up their properties along permaculture lines. Day to day the focus is positive. When questioned I'm happy to explain why I made the shift but no longer try to persuade anyone to my viewpoint.

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  • Fri, Jan 09, 2015 - 9:42am

    #10
    darturtle

    darturtle

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    Joined: Nov 25 2014

    Posts: 27

    Prsdient Obama and Russia

    To be fair, in my humble opinion, president Obama is not interesting to foreign affair. From his past record, he showed little interest in geo-politics. Rather, he is more interesting to apply socialism into USA. It is those neo-conservative, defense industry complex, hawks, … who are more interesting to meddle in foreign affairs. Obama is simply a hostage of them. As NSA whistle blower David Tice pointed out, NSA started monitoring him while he was still a senator candidate (not even elected yet). I have no idea if the intelligent community (part of defense industry complex) holds any dirt of president Obama or not.

    Last year, Ukrainians rose up because of deep corruption of that nation, not due to lacking of democracy. Usually, uprising due to poor living conditions are poorly organized in early stage. This exactly as we see as no new political super stars emerged from that uprising. Both US and Russia were confused. US thinks that it is a good opportunities as "Ukrainians were fighting for freedom" while Russia thinks the whole uprising was a CIA plot.

    As neo-conservatives want to push Russia further down, as special budgets tied to wars ending thus defense industry complex need to make up the loss, Obama was pushed to be tough on Russia. Putin simply refuses to surrender nor Putin was stupid enough to escalate the war to re-take Ukraine. Now, Ukraine and West are in a catch 22 situation. Ukraine is bankrupt but is not occupied by Russia.

    On the other hand, Russia economy also suffers from sanctions and worrying of further sanctions plus collapse of commodity prices. Russian economy is not a diversified economy.

    At the same time, China supports Russia. Since China can supply all necessities to Russia, if China accepts non-USD payments, it helps a lot. Why China helps Russia? Well, who is the target of US' Asia pivot? If Russia falls, USA will shift her power to press China. Defense Russia is somehow defend itself.

    Russia still have sizable foreign reserve yet China has far far more. Interestingly, as Chinese ministers openly say that they will help Russia if requested, US government said NOTHING. Just last month, US government warned India not too close to Russia. It is interesting, why, why USA is so afraid of China now? DEBTS?

    So far, Russia hasn't made any requests. I doubt Russia will as:

    1. The statements are strong enough to make FOREX speculators think third

    2. If Russia asks, they may lose their satellite nations as Russia will be regarded as a junior partner toward China (as UK to USA)

    With Chinese supports, IMHO, Putin can go further to push back USA. This is very danger as it could bring in unintended consequence.

    Does China want a war between Russia and USA? I strongly doubt as it would cause deep economic problem for China. As China is a major rising economic power, it wants a good business environment, no war. Of course, if China surrenders to USA and allows Americans to dictate what business they can do, it is also harmful.

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  • Fri, Jan 09, 2015 - 2:06pm

    #11

    Christopher H

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    The senility of elites in a declining empire

    Let's take a journey in the wayback machine to the G.W. Bush years, when an administration official spoke of how they were "creating reality," and that the poor hapless journalist quoting him and others like him were just stuck talking about the reality that was created, but that by the time they started talking about it officials were busy creating a new reality.  That was a rare moment of insight into how, as empires enter into terminal decline, elites become more and more disconnected from reality, and instead operate under the fantastic belief that they are at the peak of their powers and can create reality as they wish.

    In all instances, though, the outcome is the same.  They cannot "create reality."  Rather, they blunder along making things worse, because the other actors in events have their own agendas, agendas that more and more conflict with the declining power's agenda, and this causes a chaos that officials never see coming.

    The neocons said before going into Iraq that US troops would be greeted as liberators, and that the ouster of Saddam Hussein would precipitate a flowering of democracy throughout the region.  Predictably, that did not happen.  Instead, the situation there deteriorated into chaos, a chaos that these same self-aggrandizing officials have proven powerless to control.

    But we should not expect any of these people to learn from their mistakes, especially as they do not possess any skin in the game.  In their worldview, the only problem with events spinning out of control is that the nation was not committed enough to the plan that they put forward.  If only dissenters could be pushed out of the way and they be permitted to move forward with grim determination, a glorious future awaits the United States of America, and she will serve as a beacon for freedom and opportunity for decades, if not centuries.

    Sadly, this is far from unique to our elites.  It is an affliction that has affected elites of every declining empire.  And it is one of those mindsets that helps to bring about the inevitable — the decline and fall of the empire, and the new project of actually having to run a society on the materials and energy that are locally available.

    Personally, I am always left shaking my head at people who insist that the US can manhandle Russia the same way that it manhandled great powers such as Iraq, Afghanistan, and Grenada.  The Russian people are some of the most resilient people in the history of the world.  They have been invaded repeatedly from the west over the past 400 years, but they have not been conquered since the days of the Mongol Empire.  They have thrived in a harsh, unforgiving environment and autocratic, sometimes tyrannical rulers.  It's just what they do.  When looking at the US/Russia dynamic, I'm always reminded of a story that Dmitry Orlov told of an older Russian emigre to the US who complained of not being able to find mattress springs to repair an old mattress, compared with the typical American who cannot manage their cable television going out for a few days.

    I don't think that war between the US and Russia is something that anyone wants, but as Chris pointed out, it's something that we may get regardless.  And I think that in this instance, the US will get much, much more than it bargained for.  In fact, it could be the kind of folly that pushes a tottering, decrepit empire over the brink.

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  • Fri, Jan 09, 2015 - 5:09pm

    Reply to #9
    Thetallestmanonearth

    Thetallestmanonearth

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    re: davidallen

    PS. To introduce a more hopeful perspective to this comment I'll say I am no longer a business professional. We moved to the country and I'm now a small block farmer, orchardist and gardener and have a part-time business helping others set up their properties along permaculture lines. Day to day the focus is positive. When questioned I'm happy to explain why I made the shift but no longer try to persuade anyone to my viewpoint.

    I applaud you Davidallen!  Well done.  May I ask what part of the world you're operating in?

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  • Fri, Jan 09, 2015 - 6:04pm

    #12

    Sterling Cornaby

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    Excellent comment CAH

    Your right on; all of us here see the USA is ultimately sabotaging itself due to our collective hubris.  We all could do so many things in this nation to help ourselves be prosperous but many to most of us do not; from the leaders making daft judgments to the average person, many of which live lives of bread and circuses the leaders provide; no hard questions asked.  All of us in the Anglo-American empire need/should to change are ways now.  Will be forced to change our ways in the future when reality can not be silenced any more. I am personally really glad this online community exists so I have some input how to make some of these changes voluntarily.  Thank you all for your insights, they have been my 'gold' for the last two years. 

    OK, on to a bit of conjecture on my part: 

    If I was in the position of wanting to see the Anglo-American empire fall, because they are always up in my business and everyone else's, I would say "just wait" and it will happen.  I might try to minimize the damage if I could, such as Russia did in the Syria episode last year, but I would try hard not to get in the way.  It is really hard to say what the line in the sand is, I believe US-Syria deal last year is the event that fixated the US's neocons on Russia. 

    Now, if the flailing Anglo-American empire focused on me (Russia) what would I do?  Well, I would try to be patient and see if they would loose focus an go some where else; (they don't need me to fall).  But if the Anglo-American empire kept pushing, I would consider the risk of getting both of us to collapse together, knowing that I will be able to get up again and Anglo-American empire will not.  As mention several times, Russia as a nation is quite good at this 'burnt earth' type of fighting.  The US is now getting Russia into a corner on this; this is Chris's thesis.  For example, at what point does the junk bond market blow-up and the USA?  When will the US have to sucker that wound? I would wait for a tipping point such as a junk bond type collapse.  At that position I would throw all my weight into motion; that's when I would cyber-punk war the hell out of them to keep them falling.  There is one of several possible outcomes.  If we don't back off "the US will get much much more then it bargained for". 

    The future is getting quite murky chaotic; we are getting ever closer to a new unknown world, a new 'strange attractor' where everything is different.  Might I suggest figure out a way to enjoy this ride — I find myself lately laughing at stuff like this just because reality is stranger then fiction!       

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  • Fri, Jan 09, 2015 - 6:31pm

    Reply to #9
    David Allan

    David Allan

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    Reply to tallestman

    Thanks, I'm in the north of New Zealand

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  • Fri, Jan 09, 2015 - 7:01pm

    #13
    Maximum Probabilities

    Maximum Probabilities

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    Russian troops on American soil?

    How then if we are at such odds with Russia, have there been many credible reports of Russian military presence on American soil? Chinese troops also! I would suggest that everything that is going on is a huge setup from within that is going to result in bringing America down so that the NWO can rise from the ashes. The foreign troops are here to help disarm us. Notice I said help. There are plenty of Americans in the military and law enforcement, DHS, etc. that will follow orders to do it also. Hopefully there will be many that will refuse, although I don't feel real optimistic about the final outcome. There will be much destruction and bloodshed.

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  • Fri, Jan 09, 2015 - 7:41pm

    #14

    Time2help

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    America

    From sea to shining sea.

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  • Sat, Jan 10, 2015 - 3:31am

    #15

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status Bronze Member (Online)

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    Posts: 450

    Kudos to All

    Just saw this article on ZeroHedge and have to say that the people who post on this site are more polite, respectful, and better informed. Wow what a difference. Good job to all who comment and thank you for taking the high road and not being

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  • Sat, Jan 10, 2015 - 4:27am

    #16
    wootendw

    wootendw

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    Nuland and Glaser

    "Nuland….and US Assistant-Secretary of the Treasury Daniel Glaser told the Foreign Affairs Committee of the US House of Representatives in May 2014 that the objectives of the US economic sanctions strategy against the Russian Federation was not only to damage the trade ties and business between Russia and the EU, but to also bring about economic instability in Russia and to create currency instability and inflation."

    Thank you.  Another item that more need to know about.

    The good (or at least hopeful) news is that more and more commenters (on MSM stories) are aware of what has really been going on in Ukraine, despite the Goebbls-identified tactic MSM is using of repeating the same lie over and over again until Bubus UnAmericanus believes it.  More and more Europeans are also getting it.

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  • Sat, Jan 10, 2015 - 9:54am

    Reply to #2
    James Wilde

    James Wilde

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    I think that's an overt

    I think that's an overt reason, Phildenn, and you're dead right.  I'm just glad another 'bad guy', Xi JinPing is backing up Putin.  He knows he's next in line, if Putin falls.

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  • Sat, Jan 10, 2015 - 9:58am

    Reply to #3
    James Wilde

    James Wilde

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    Yeah, some at least of us

    Yeah, some at least of us have seen it, but according to my son it'll never happen, even though industry leaders want it to happen.  Here's his take on it:"The Russians have been advocating this since the start of the financial crisis in 2008. While supremely logical, and what many European *business* leaders dream of, it will never happen, for one simple reason: It goes against the personal interested of the European *political* elite. They have all been bought and paid for by the US for ages, both financially (bribes), culturally (they love the US, hate and fear Russia), and politically (Bilderberg, etc, no Russian counterparts). That is why you see, for example, German and French political leaders shooting their countries and businesses in the foot repeatedly while their business leaders cry out in pain. The European political leaders would rather see the EU crash and burn and become an impoverished colony of the USA than team up with Russia, for if they don't they will see their own personal comforts erased. "
    Grim, but maybe reality.

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  • Sun, Jan 11, 2015 - 4:00pm

    #17
    BeingThere

    BeingThere

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    Ginning up cold and hot war

    Yes, I've been saying for a number of years that the global hegemonic model of the US unipolar power is expressed in financial soft power of the austerity model run by the IMF (global Neoliberalism)and the hard power of the Military with bases around the world. (Neoconservatism, Trilateralism). This is the model that both the Dems and the Republicans adhere to.

    Basically we have a lockdown on the NATO countries and we'll show them who's in charge when they waver. Hence the attack on France after Holland spoke against the sanctions on Russia around the new year.(need I say more)

    The US citizenry have been softened through the cold war period and beyond to feel a basic enmity toward Russia in any of its incarnations from the breakdown of communism through the Neoliberal model that destroyed their economy further. They were too weakened to counter any of our global machinations till recently and hence the cold and hot war commence.

    It is also a known fact that the US paid $5 billion (through NGOs)  toward the coup that took place in the Ukraine, ousting their democratically elected president. Always favoring facsists, the US stands by their useful idiots who have destroyed Ukrain's chance for any kind of economy while killing off ethnic Russians.

    Now we hear the psychological analysis of Putin (just like they did with Bin Laden) who wants to rebuild empire. Only we have to ask who is in perpetual never-ending war for $$$ and absolute power to destroy the idea of sovereign nation-states? Who's fundamentalist economic theory wants to be free of all government oversight? Who is introducing the TPP and TIPP rendering all nations victim to privatized global monopolist interests?

    All the patterns are the same. Sanctions, imposed and then more bellicose rhetoric pretending always to be the good guys and as Chris says a media that buys all the propaganda for more access and sucess. There will be no coverage for those who disagree. They can't reach the masses.

    We are in dangerous times and it is up to us to say things as we see them. It takes a while before people see the same old patterns over and over again, but it's really pretty easy once you see it.

     

     

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  • Sun, Jan 11, 2015 - 7:16pm

    #18

    sand_puppy

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    Things pushed into motion quickly now

    1.  President Hollande Expressed Strong Misgivings About The Sanction Regime Against Russia:

    France declares an end to the Russian sanctions just two days before the terror attacks

    Fast forward to 2015 and the recent terrorist attacks on the Charlie Hebdo newspaper offices.  This staged attack was clearly executed with deliberate intent to produce specific outcomes within the European Union.  The desired results of those who fabricated this event are becoming more clear with each passing day.  Certainly, French President François Hollande will be re-thinking his commitment to ending the sanctions against Russia that he had expressed just 2 days before the ‘terror event’ in Paris.

    2.   Arson Attack On German Newspaper After Printing Charlie Hebdo Cartoons; Thousands Take To Streets In France

    A day when over 700,000 people are said to have taken part in marches across France…

    3.  Serious questions about the famous "terrorist" shot to the head of the downed Paris policeman. http://vimeo.com/116191117 and http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2ee_1420714352  

    What do the rest of you think about this gunshot wound to the head?  Does it seem authentic?

    Little recoil, no splatter of blood from a close range head shot, and a puff of white powder (without blood and tissue mixed in) on the sidewalk just beyond the policeman.

    4.   Neocons famously report that they "make their own reality" –by reporting something as true without evidence, or with pictures that appear staged.  The effectiveness of this operation depends on having people trust their reports and believe that their words are true.  When we understand that they lie often and regularly, that this is a standard modus operandi, the effectiveness of these reports in shaping public thinking is greatly reduced. 

    When dealing with habitual liars, we need to be like Missouri mules at every point and say:  show me the evidence.

     

     

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  • Sun, Jan 11, 2015 - 7:47pm

    #19
    pgp

    pgp

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    Root causes or Symptoms

    Great article CM, nice summary of the errant thinking that passes for governance in the world.
    I would like to add…

    People always look at symptoms and not causes. The environment is going TU so we blame industry and contemporary gov policy instead of looking at the cause: Unsustainable population growth (actually a root cause for almost everything dire in the global society system)

    Similarly with the so called US led attack on everything. People look at singular conflicts when in fact the whole western world (led perhaps by the USA) has been pursuing a “new world order” for decades. That they’ve bungled implementation is beside the point, the real issue here is that the West (the establishment) has the arrogance to believe they know what is best for the whole world and are becoming increasingly belligerent in their methods.

    I never see people protesting for change in the root causes, or culture behind an issue. Everyone is merely reacting to and moaning about the symptoms. I’d lead those protests for what is essential cultural change but who would follow? How therefore, with so little support, can the establishment ever be stopped?

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  • Sun, Jan 11, 2015 - 8:14pm

    Reply to #18
    pgp

    pgp

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    Beligerant propaganda

    The whole Charlie Hebdo ordeal reeks of inexplicable facts and coincidences, the truth about which seems illusive at best. People can write anything in the media or on the internet and it will be true if enough people want it to be.
    It would be horrific to imagine that our “new world order” implementers would stoop this low, slaughtering satirists to grab a bit of political favour from the masses. Clearly the kind of post world war anti communist man hunts, deals and subterfuges are well documented so we know what the advocates of the new world order are capable of. We also know that rhetoric about WMDs in Iraq and Syrria was overplayed but that these information games exist.

    Truth has become impossible to fathom and actors for “the world order” can be more and more belligerent simply because evidence is so easy to muddy in the cesspits of the internet, TV and commercial media. We’ll never know the truth and conspiracy theorists will undermine credibility in no time.

    In fact the best way for the establishment to disinform these days is to create evidence that conspiracy theorist can latch onto Any hint of wrong doing is then instantly discredited by its association with the “trollls of the internet”.

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  • Sun, Jan 11, 2015 - 9:17pm

    #20

    Time2help

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    Ugh

    7.62×39 @ point blank range = skull shattered and brains everywhere

    7.62×39 @ point blank range into a sidewalk = chunks of sidewalk (aka shrapnel) flung out

    7.62×39 blank @ point blank range = muzzle flash and a puff of smoke?

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  • Sun, Jan 11, 2015 - 9:37pm

    #21
    Doug

    Doug

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    BS

    I call BS on the video.  During the shooting at no time was the muzzle of the gun pointed toward the puff of dust on the sidewalk.  In fact, it appeared to be pointed directly at the officer's head.  It is not unusual for bullets to pass through a body without a lot of jerking and blood splatter.  Ask any deer hunter.  The quality of the video is poor enough that we can't really tell whether there was blood splatter or not, and it didn't stay focused on the scene long enough to see blood draining.

    My guess is that the bullet was redirected as it passed through the officer's head and did cause the puff of dust as it hit the sidewalk.

    Doug

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  • Sun, Jan 11, 2015 - 10:19pm

    #22

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status Bronze Member (Online)

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    Re BS

    Sooooo there is nothing redeeming in the video and we shouldn't question MSM?  Remember people the first casualty of any war is the truth!  If we don't ask questions then we should hold our our arms, kneel and willingly take our shackles.  

    Freedom is not free.

     

     

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  • Sun, Jan 11, 2015 - 11:54pm

    Reply to #18
    aggrivated

    aggrivated

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    Making their own reality

      It is also interesting that France not only just declared it wants to back off on the Russia sanctions, but also recently officially recognized Palestine. This is all shades of Carroll Quigley's "Hope and Tragedy" approach to geopolitics.  This type of power brokering invented concentration camps to win the 2nd Boer War a century ago, and don't forget the Lusitania and Pearl Harbor as likely suspects. With electronic control of money flow, it's now possible to cordon off a country effectively blocking commerce and starve its economy into submission.(Russia)   The geo banking cartel also can stage false flag events to gain their advantage.(Paris) This provocative article by Pepe Escobar focuses on a similar theme:  http://rt.com/op-edge/220959-charlie-hebdo-france-shooting/. 

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  • Mon, Jan 12, 2015 - 12:12am

    #23
    pgp

    pgp

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    Charlie Hebdo censored footage.

    Well spotted Time2help.   The whole Charlie Hebdo thing doesn't smell right.  The perpetrators are so organised and wear balaclava's only to leave their ID card's behind.  Who was the expert camera man on the roof, no camera shudder, well centered, expert panning no flinching; they should apply for a job at the BBC.  I'd have to concur with the footage regarding the lethal head shot…. looks like a very clean miss to me; it's really hard to hit bone with a high speed copper pellet and not see explosive exit wounds in the style of JFK's assassination, even soft tissue penetration would be messy – the energy has to spill out somewhere.

    The problem with conspiracy theory is however the lack of irrefutable scientific evidence.  Its really easy to obfuscate the evidence sufficiently to discredit scientific analysis – it only takes one conflicting "expert opinion".  Without the smoking gun there really is nothing. 

    If this was a conspiracy, all be it pretty poorly executed, it will never be proven.

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  • Mon, Jan 12, 2015 - 12:19am

    #24

    sand_puppy

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    Sleeper Cells: lessions from the Reichstag fire

    Recent announcements is Paris, NYC and from and interview by Diane Feinstein reporting "sleeper cells being activated" bring back memories of reading about the Nazi take over of the government of Germany with the Reichstag fire incident.

    The Reichstag was the German parliament building that was burnt to the ground in 1933 in an act of arson.  Much has been written about it from multiple viewpoints:  Did Hitler's agents actually set the fire themselves, or were they just quick thinkers and brilliant strategists who used the fortuitous incident to solidify their grip on power?

    As the Parliament burned to the ground, the newly elected chancellor of Germany, Adolf Hitler, met with the aging president of Germany, von Hindenburg literally on the street in front of the still smoldering building.  Hitler explained that this was the act of "the communists" and was the signal to activate their sleeper cells throughout Germany for a take over of the nation.  Hindenburg was apparently very fearful of just this possibility and consented to an emergency decree that allowed Hitler emergency powers to deal with the grave threat to the nation.  Hitler arrested several thousand communists over the next several days, including all of the parliament members from the communist party.  And just for good measure, he also arrested journalists critical of the Nazi party and clergy of all religions who opposed his policies.

    So now we hear:

    France Warns 'Terror Cells' Have Been Activated, US Issues Worldwide Travel Alert

    and

    NYPD cops were put on high alert Saturday night after ISIS released a propaganda video urging the killing of "intelligence officers, police officers, soldiers, and civilians" in the US, according to The NY Post. This was then further fear-mongered by Senator Diane Feinstein who said Sunday she believes there are terrorist sleeper cells in the U.S. that could carry out attacks similar to the ones in France – though not mentioning any specific threats

    The beauty of "sleeper cells" threat is that you cannot confirm or refute that they exist.  It is similar to swimming in the ocean off Santa Cruz California and not knowing if there is a great white shark a few feet from you or whether there are none within miles.  You can't see through the turbid water and you just can't know.  

    For the neocon group, famous for "creating its own reality," and that that reality is "the great terrorist threat," sleeper cells are mechanism.

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  • Mon, Jan 12, 2015 - 1:03am

    Reply to #23

    Time2help

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    irrefutable scientific evidence

    [quote=pgp]The problem with conspiracy theory is however the lack of irrefutable scientific evidence.  Its really easy to obfuscate the evidence sufficiently to discredit scientific analysis – it only takes one conflicting "expert opinion".  Without the smoking gun there really is nothing. 
    [/quote]
    I'd call BS on the need for "irrefutable scientific evidence" and settle for "beyond a reasonable doubt".  Go take a look a http://www.ae911truth.org.  They have more than enough scientific evidence to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt.  What's missing is a judicial system capable of indicting and prosecuting (probably due to be bought off and/or blackmailed).
    The poor officer/actor was awfully close to that muzzle blast.  My guess is that he's deaf (and always was).
     

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  • Mon, Jan 12, 2015 - 1:40am

    Reply to #22
    Doug

    Doug

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    AkGrannyWGrit wrote:Sooooo

    [quote=AkGrannyWGrit]
    Sooooo there is nothing redeeming in the video and we shouldn't question MSM?  Remember people the first casualty of any war is the truth!  If we don't ask questions then we should hold our our arms, kneel and willingly take our shackles.  
    Freedom is not free.[/quote]
    Redeeming in the video?  I can't imagine what that means.  A video is a video.  Assuming it wasn't totally faked (I won't go there without some evidence) it is objective evidence of what went down there.  Not irrefutable evidence, but again there's that word, evidence.
    Shouldn't question the msm?  Of course we should.  There are probably few who question it more than I.
    My only point was the video does not comport with the narrator's interpretation.  In fact, the two are wildly inconsistent.  That's called critical thinking, an ability supposedly highly valued on this site.
    Of course there will be more evidence developed by criminal investigation and autopsy.  That evidence may lead in very different directions, but based solely on that video, which is all we have at the moment, I see nothing that would cause me to launch off into wild conspiracy theories.  Further, if you or the others commenting in a similar vein on this thread can't come up with something to refute my post above, you've got nothing either.

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  • Mon, Jan 12, 2015 - 1:47am

    Reply to #21
    earthwise

    earthwise

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    Doug, I second that "BS" call.

    Doug, I second that "BS" call. Throughout the span of those few seconds that the gunman approached the officer, the gun was always pointed at the head. Also, at the moment of the shot, the gun was lined up on the head and the projected trajectory of the bullet through the head was right where the dust from the impact on the concrete was created. Moreover, I have occasionally slaughtered my farm animals with a high caliber bullet to the head and have never seen the explosive effect displayed by that shot to the watermelon. Just the opposite. I don't put it past TPTB to stage a false flag attack. And I don't reject the possibility that this was indeed a false flag. I just don't buy into the notion that this shot to the head was staged. At least not from this video.

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  • Mon, Jan 12, 2015 - 1:56am

    Reply to #22

    Time2help

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    On Conspiracy Theories

    [quote=Doug]Of course there will be more evidence developed by criminal investigation and autopsy.  That evidence may lead in very different directions, but based solely on that video, which is all we have at the moment, I see nothing that would cause me to launch off into wild conspiracy theories.  Further, if you or the others commenting in a similar vein on this thread can't come up with something to refute my post above, you've got nothing either.
    [/quote]
    [quote=David Collum]
    You are trying to shut me up with a pejorative label. I will let one of the iconic educators of our time respond:

    [/quote]

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  • Mon, Jan 12, 2015 - 1:58am

    Reply to #22
    Doug

    Doug

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    Ahh, there's the evidence I

    [quote=Time2help][quote=Doug]
    Of course there will be more evidence developed by criminal investigation and autopsy.  That evidence may lead in very different directions, but based solely on that video, which is all we have at the moment, I see nothing that would cause me to launch off into wild conspiracy theories.  Further, if you or the others commenting in a similar vein on this thread can't come up with something to refute my post above, you've got nothing either.
    [/quote]
    [quote=David Collum]
    You are trying to shut me up with a pejorative label. I will let one of the iconic educators of our time respond:

    [/quote]
    Ahh, there's the evidence I was looking for.  Thanks for clearing that up. 

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  • Mon, Jan 12, 2015 - 2:03am

    #25

    Time2help

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    Hey, Keep Smiling

    Hopefully you can keep that smile smiley on your face when these nutjobs kick off the "hot" portion of WWIII.

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  • Mon, Jan 12, 2015 - 2:39am

    #26

    Quercus bicolor

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    Was it real?

    A few things to consider:

    1. A watermelon rind is much weaker than a human skull.  A hammer blow to a watermelon could create a visible, but not so dramatic explosive effect.  A hammer blow to a skull could do damage, but would unlikely create an explosion of tissue.
    2. Earthwise has personal experience shooting farm animals in the head from close range with a high caliber bullet without explosive effects.  It would be instructive to hear from you Earthwise exactly what you did observe.
    3. I went through the video carefully at 1:00 and 1:13  From what I could see, the gun was pointed at the head when the shot went off and the impact point on the sidewalk was at most a bit off the line of fire.

    So now I have two questions. 

    1. The officers head didn't seem to jerk when the bullet hit. Is this alone enough to say he wasn't hit?  Or is this possible even if he was hit.
    2. There didn't appear to be any blood, brains or other tissue splattered on the sidewalk.  Given the image quality there could have been a small amount of splattering that just wasn't resolved by the image.  Is this a reasonable outcome for a hit to the head?

    Please only people with direct or at least second-hand experience of the impact of bullets of this caliber hitting someone's head.  Conjecture isn't evidence.

     

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  • Mon, Jan 12, 2015 - 3:27am

    Reply to #23
    pgp

    pgp

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    Beyond Reasonable Doubt.

    Unfortunately "beyond a reasonable doubt" in a court of law is only as good as the "expert" that supplies the doubt.   If the 911 event were viably prosecutable in a court of law then I'm pretty sure that by now someone would have brought it to court…. the whole JFK issue was investigated and got nowhere thanks to that "reasonable doubt" and a bunch of people pleading amendment rights to protect state secrets.So I stand by my original point which is that we need the smoking gun (irrefutable proof)… otherwise the conspiracy-theorist is just a seditionists with no credibility and nothing legally compelling on offer to change anything.
    In the absence of proof in a system that filters it out, all we can do is be open minded and wait for the sheeple to catch on to the injustices around them.  Ain't humanity wonderful?
     

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  • Mon, Jan 12, 2015 - 3:33am

    #27

    Time2help

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    Decent Caliber Rifle at Close Range

    Maybe something like this would have been more believable (about frame 310 and on).  Just saying.

     

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  • Mon, Jan 12, 2015 - 3:33am

    Reply to #27

    Quercus bicolor

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    Time2help wrote:Maybe

    [quote=Time2help]
    Maybe something like this would have been more believable (about frame 310 and on).  Just saying.
    [/quote]
    Yes, the spray of blood and guts is clearly visible in that shot to the head.

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  • Mon, Jan 12, 2015 - 3:38am

    #28

    sand_puppy

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    Aggrivated: This is the link

    Who profits from killing Charlie?

    Op-Ed writer, Pepe Escobar, shares his doubts about the Paris events.  I wish I could write like that!

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  • Mon, Jan 12, 2015 - 3:45am

    Reply to #21

    Time2help

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    Ask any deer hunter

    [quote=Doug]It is not unusual for bullets to pass through a body without a lot of jerking and blood splatter.  Ask any deer hunter. 
    [/quote]
    From an AK-47?  At point blank range? Through the deer's skull? 
    You go ahead.  I'm going to stand back just a bit, thanks.

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  • Mon, Jan 12, 2015 - 4:16am

    Reply to #21
    aggrivated

    aggrivated

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    not a ballistics expert but

    Hollow points vs round nose vs full metal vs soft point are all options.   I'd like to hear from someone who can point out the differences in exit wounds for these different types of bullets.  BTW Sand Puppy–thanks for the correction!

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  • Mon, Jan 12, 2015 - 4:41am

    #29

    Time2help

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    Always Practice Good Firearm Safety

    In other words, don't dance drunk with one at a wedding.
     
     
    I just would have expected something more than a puff of white smoke/dust at that range. 
     
    What difference at this point does it make anyway.
     
     

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  • Mon, Jan 12, 2015 - 4:43am

    #30

    sand_puppy

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    The first question to ask after a terror attack....

    The First Question to Ask After Any Terror Attack: Was It a False Flag?

    In the above summary post, George Washington does an excellent job listing the many many historically established false flag attacks.    The list is very impressive.  It includes most nations.  To understand how this deception works and that it is commonly used is not "wild" or "crazy."

    Friends have stated things like: 

    "They just WOULDN'T do something like that!" or

    "I REFUSE TO BELIEVE that anyone would do that."

    It is hard for people with integrity and a strong sense of compassion to understand that there is a minority of human beings (estimated at 2%) that has no problem at all killing others for power and profit.  Less intelligent sociopaths might become low level mafia thugs breaking the legs of people behind on payments.  But brilliant strategists can rise in the ranks of military and intelligence organizations. Ruthlessness may allows a broader ranges of actions than a compassionate or moral person might have.

    Conspiracies DO occur.  And on a daily basis.  And yes, there ARE those "who would do something like that."  And they run the intelligence agencies of the world.

    Who profits from killing Charlie?

     

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  • Mon, Jan 12, 2015 - 5:02am

    Reply to #26

    Time2help

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    Conservation of Momentum

    [quote=Quercus bicolor]So now I have two questions. 

    The officers head didn't seem to jerk when the bullet hit. Is this alone enough to say he wasn't hit?  Or is this possible even if he was hit.
    There didn't appear to be any blood, brains or other tissue splattered on the sidewalk.  Given the image quality there could have been a small amount of splattering that just wasn't resolved by the image.  Is this a reasonable outcome for a hit to the head?

    [/quote]
    1. If the officers head was hit, and the bullet did not exit the head (entry wound only), conservation of momentum would require a sharp snapping motion of the head.
    [quote=COM]
    For a collision occurring between object 1 and object 2 in an isolated system, the total momentum of the two objects before the collision is equal to the total momentum of the two objects after the collision. That is, the momentum lost by object 1 is equal to the momentum gained by object 2.
    [/quote]
    2. If the bullet entered and exited from the head there should still have been a jerking motion, equal to the amount of energy imparted by object 1 (bullet) on object 2 (head).
    Does the officer's head snap/jerk at all?

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  • Mon, Jan 12, 2015 - 5:26am

    Reply to #26

    Quercus bicolor

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    Time2help wrote:Does the

    [quote=Time2help]
    Does the officer's head snap/jerk at all?
    [/quote]
    From what I can see in the video, no, it doesn't snap/jerk at all.  It simply moves/falls to the ground after the shot is fired.

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  • Mon, Jan 12, 2015 - 5:34am

    Reply to #26

    mememonkey

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    Not everything is a false flag...

    but this sure smells like one. It is clear that there are elements of the deep state that operate at this level and with this disregard for human life.   911 proves that to any thinking person willing to look objectively at the mountains of evidence.
    I too am offended by the knee jerk and pejorative use of the term 'conspiracy theory" to marginalize and diminish debate on subjects such as this.
    At a base line it was a conspiracy after all;  the question remains who perpetrated it?
    For me the timing re Hollande's announcement vis- a vis  Russian sanctions and Palestine are a huge factor  as well as the formulaic script,  of finding a dropped ID,  capturing the first new's cycle with a fully developed narrative of the perps,  and the take no prisoner's dead men tell no tales ending
    just my gut feeling
    mememonkey
     
     
     
     
     

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  • Mon, Jan 12, 2015 - 5:42am

    #31

    Time2help

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    Doug

    In retrospect, my apologies for posts #37 and #39 of this thread. The video clip in question did not convince me that the officer took a close proximity shot to the head.  And the MSM editing out that segment of video did not help.

    That was no justification for snapping at you for voicing your opinion. 

    I remember a time when I believed in the news, that the (MSM) reporters I was watching valued truth.

    Done with this thread.

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  • Mon, Jan 12, 2015 - 7:16am

    #32
    Thetallestmanonearth

    Thetallestmanonearth

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    motivation

    Let me first start by saying I believe that false flags are a regularly used tactic and have been for longer than any of us have been alive.  I also believe it's important to question the authorities and the media.  In this case though I just don't see it.  I'm referring only to the video above and not the larger incident which I haven't researched enough to have an opinion on.

    Here's why: If you're trying to conduct a false flag, including a video taped scene of a run-by shooting might lend credibility.  Faking it would not.  It would be too easy to discredit.  You can reasonably identify the officer who was shot, God rest his soul. He will of have a family, a boss, coworkers and friends.  You can't fake that.  If he was an actor, the lack of information would be a tell.  When fabricating a lie you want to minimize the loose threads that can be pulled. Assuming this was a false flag, it would have been a whole lot cleaner to actually shoot someone.  Was the whole incident a false flag?  Maybe.  I don't know and neither do you. None of us likely ever will.  But was that officer really shot?  I'd say the chances are pretty good. And if that was done by a terrorist or the CIA won't make a lick of difference to the people grieving his loss tonight.  

    As to the display of gore you're looking for?  I don't have a whole lot of experience shooting people in the head at close range with an AK-47….I hope no one else here does either….I have no idea what to expect to see.  I did have a friend who got shot with an Ak-47 in Iraq, though not at close range.  The entrance wound was right around where the bicep meets the shoulder muscle on the front of his arm.  The exit wound was in the middle of his back just at the edge of his shoulder blade.  The doctor explained that the bullet was deflected as it traveled through him in an 'S' pattern missing a major artery by "millimeters".  I personally shined a flashlight through the wound when a nurse was cleaning it and you could see where it made its first turn (and the light coming out the other side in a dark room – we were 19 and thought it was cool).  Point is you're talking about a high energy projectile moving through a unevenly dense substrate.  You could replicate the same shot 100 times and probably get 100 different results.

     

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  • Mon, Jan 12, 2015 - 9:06am

    #33
    aladinangel

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    Back to the war instigated against Russia

    Most of the people pushing for a war with Russia (or for whatever "end game" the geniuses at the State Dept. might have in their mind) are part of the baby boom generation. A generation which hasn't been terribly intelligent and introspective when young, got (finally) to hold all levers of power in US. Unfortunately, most of these people turned out to be, even as they aged (but not matured), nothing more than irresponsible fools, regardless of their societal "status". I would say that right now America is being run by a bunch of people who never grew up ! They are still at their developmental stage of "enfant terrible" (spoiled brat in English) so easily recognizable back in the '60s. Too much power into the hands of mentally and emotionally immature people always makes for a terrifying recipe. Anybody remembers Golding's "Lord of the Flies", and how it ends ?

    Alas, here's the problem: there are no more adults around to save the day ! Through their sheer folly, ignorance, or just hubris, Americans got themselves already in a war with Russia. Missiles might not be flying (yet) but the economic and political actions against Russia have been, over the last 6 months or so, as open warfare as it gets. It was planned well in advance (remember all the derogatory reporting against Russia even before the Sochi Olympics was on, and long before the entire Ukrainian affair blew up in the open). But it wasn't planned too well. The war against Russia became almost immediately a war against Russia-China, and as time goes by, it is about to become a war against much of the developing world. It is also a war which America (and its Western stooges) will lose ! The are many reasons for that, but the main one is pretty straightforward: the aggressor countries have their economies in tatters and are more or less all bankrupt. Their manufacturing capabilities are but a shadow of their former self (a war requires insane amounts of stuff and money), and their people are in no mood for any personal sacrifice (much less fighting). Economic wizardry and financial shenanigans are not a substitute for a real productive economy, and a motivated population. All in all, not a very good position to be at the beginning of a war…frown

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  • Mon, Jan 12, 2015 - 3:06pm

    #34

    Time2help

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    BBC Report <fake, removed>

    <removed>

    Edit: Can't seem to confirm this is from BBC, so grain of salt here.

    Further Edit: Video appears to be a fake (e.g. not from BBC).  

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  • Mon, Jan 12, 2015 - 4:59pm

    #35
    Doug

    Doug

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    Not to beat a dead horse...

    …into total submission, I have done a little research into the type of ammunition typically used in an AK 47 and, for that matter, most standard issue military rifles.  The Hague Declaration on Expanding Bullets of 1899 still appears to be the guiding legal precedent internationally.  Although the US never signed onto that agreement, as recently as 2010 they still complied with the Declaration with some exceptions:

    https://www.jagcnet.army.mil/DOCLIBS/MILITARYLAWREVIEW.NSF/0/b5974c05f0a57579852578c70042d25f/$FILE/Article%203%20-%20By%20MAJ%20Joshua%20F.%20Berry.pdf

    See footnote 41 on pg 98.

    The type of ammo permitted under the Declaration is basically full metal jacket ammo that resists expansion or disintegration on impact with a body, thereby resulting in minimal internal damage.  This type of ammo typically results in through-and-through wounds with small entry and exit holes.  The logic for this kind of restriction was and remains humaneness since bullets that expand or fragment on entry expend all their energy inside the body inflicting maximum damage and, if they exit, leave a wound that more closely produces what the guy in the video thought should have been visible.

    There is a good deal of disagreement in the military that this type of ammo is desirable given the changing nature of combat our soldiers are facing in the middle east.  I tend to agree.  There's an interesting discussion here:

    http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=201224

    My only point here is that, assuming the bad guys were using standard military ammo, the video is consistent with a through-and-through wound as described above.

    Oh yeh, thanks for the apology Time2help.  Greatly appreciated.

     

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  • Mon, Jan 12, 2015 - 5:03pm

    #36
    daddy warbucks

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    American war crimes

    Ukraine, now referred to as (f*ck the EU) Nulandistan:

    $5 billion US tax dollars to de-stabilize the Ukraine.

    This how peace prize recipient Obama, Kerry, McCain, Nuland and CT/Dem Chris Murphy are 'spreading democracy'?
    Now that it is 'destabilized' where next?
    Those protests, funded and stirred up by the US, eventually led to
    this:

    [Admin note: Video embed removed due to extremely graphic nature. When referencing such material in the future, please take pains to explain why it's relevant to the point being made, provide a warning of the graphic content, and then link to the material — don't embed it.]

     

     

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  • Mon, Jan 12, 2015 - 5:11pm

    #37
    daddy warbucks

    daddy warbucks

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    Nulandistand courtesy of Washington (Rockefeller) global tyranny

     

    "In the past, McCain has sometimes revealed a simplistic, Cold War viewpoint of Russia. You have to wonder if, by going to Ukraine and standing on stage with a man accused of being an anti-Semitic neo-Nazi, he may have shown that trait again."
     
    John McCain Oleh Tyahnybok
     
    U.S. Senator John McCain, center, speaks as Democratic senator from the state of Connecticut, Chris Murphy, second left, and Opposition leader Oleh Tyahnybok, right, stand around him during a Pro-European Union rally in Independence Square in Kiev, Ukraine, Sunday, Dec. 15, 2013. (Tell me what Putin was doing at this time?)

     
    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mccain-meets-oleh-tyahnybok-in-ukraine-2013-12#ixzz3C4P0YDkd
     
     
    Did Putin have anything to do with the Odessa massacre? No. And  why was the US there behind the scenes, what was the US doing there?
     
    Google:
    Kiev and Right Sector Kristallnacht Odessa…Extreme Graphics

    Veterans Today
    Published time: 27 April, 2014

    Video on the real Odessa massacre by Pravy Sektor Links below for all photos and video by F. William Engdahl
    … and an Odessa eyewitness to the bestial May 2 massacre

    [ Editors Note: This was very unpleasant work to have to do this morning, but we have always represented the dead here at VT as best we could….

     
     
     
    McCain has been busy in Syria also (So is Putin going to get blamed for the war in Syria too?)
     
    So Why Hasn’t McCain Been Indicted?
     
    "In April 2013, GOP Senator McCain at an Idlib, Syria Terrorist Gathering Pledged US Money and Weapons to Ex-US POW Ibrahim Al-Badri of the “Free Syrian Army,”an Al Qaeda Leader Then Already Among Washington’s Five Most Wanted Terrorists with a $10 Million Reward on His Head; McCain’s Moderate Democratic Protege Badri Was Simultaneously Emir of ISIS, Styling Himself Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi, and Now Claims to Rule the World as Caliph Ibrahim of the Restored Caliphate — So Why Hasn’t McCain Been Indicted?"

    Webster G. Tarpley, Ph.D.

     

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  • Tue, Jan 13, 2015 - 5:17pm

    #38

    Time2help

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    RE: Not Everything is a False Flag

    The simplest explanation is that all of this is on the up-and-up.

     

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  • Tue, Jan 13, 2015 - 7:48pm

    Reply to #38
    pgp

    pgp

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    Yeah, that's just weird.

    Yeah, that’s just weird. Still I don’t think he was the “lead” investigator and if he was depressed it might not have taken much to push him over. Still death by service weapon in your office… seems like a messy and thoughtless final protest. He might have been shot by conspiracy theorists (or supporters) keen to perpetuate an idea. You have to consider all the possibilities ;). The story isn’t tracking in France either, which is suspicious.
    There’s a lot of weird s–t going down in the world these days. It’s the age of corruption and anything seems possible, sadly all information is questionable. We used to believe everything that was printed in a newspaper or published to the web. These days you cant really believe any of it, no matter who produces it. This is of course is perfect for the disinformers and propagandists.

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  • Tue, Jan 13, 2015 - 8:00pm

    Reply to #38

    Time2help

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    I'll second this

    [quote=pgp]There's a lot of weird s–t going down in the world these days. It's the age of corruption and anything seems possible, sadly all information is questionable. We used to believe everything that was printed in a newspaper or published to the web. These days you cant really believe any of it, no matter who produces it. This is of course is perfect for the disinformers and propagandists.[/quote]

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  • Wed, Jan 14, 2015 - 5:26am

    #39

    sand_puppy

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    OMG: Turkish President Says Was False Flag

    Turkish President's Stunning Outburst: The French Are Behind The Charlie Hebdo Massacre; Mossad Blamed

     

    "The duplicity of the west is obvious,” Recep Tayyip Erdogan said at a press conference on Monday evening. “As Muslims we have never sided with terror or massacres: racism, hate speech, Islamophobia are behind these massacres.”

    "The culprits are clear: French citizens undertook this massacre and Muslims were blamed for it.”

    FT summarizes:

    "Although political leaders in Turkey have repeatedly condemned the attacks on the Charlie Hebdo magazine, a Jewish supermarket and a policewoman, a parallel narrative has emerged in the country, with conspiracy theorists blaming the murders on foreign intelligence agencies rather than radical Islamists."

    A comment by BellyBrain makes me want to look into this entire subject more.  (I have not seen or looked for any of the original pictures myself.)

    The whole thing is obviously fake if you look at photos and videos of the event.  The cop wasn't shot AT ALL (look it up on liveleak), it looks like a blank, and it was aimed at the ground.  Jim Stone has a lot of good analysis of that video.

     

    The Heebdo office had one single bullet hole in a window.  The inside of the office had no blood at first, then there was a photo of some fake-looking blood poured on the floor under a chair, but zero blood anywhere else, including on the chair or on the desk.

    The "shootout" at a Jewish Deli is just badly scripted drama, start to finish.

     

    So yes, this looks like yet another staged event where probably nobody died (except for the patsies).  Yes, cia/mossad do this shit all the time and they did it again because they needed more fuel for their "war on terra."

    Reminds me of

    1.   the Sandy Hook Shooting where the pictures just do not make any sense, 

    2.   the NATO claim that Russia invaded Ukraine with no pictures offered,

    3.   the MH-17 shoot down where all evidence seems to have disappeared,

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  • Wed, Jan 14, 2015 - 1:02pm

    Reply to #39

    Bankers Slave

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    A slip of the tongue...

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  • Wed, Jan 14, 2015 - 4:48pm

    #40

    sand_puppy

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    Hallmarks of Deep Events: Peter Dale Scott

     

    Hallmarks of Deep Events:  Peter Dale Scott

     

    I appreciate mememonkey’s comments about the elements of the Charlie Hebdo incident that suggested to him the possibility of a false flag.  This reminded me of lectures and essays by Peter Dale Scott who has studied and written on the deep state for several decades.

     

    I’ll summarize a couple of the Scotts’ high points.

     

    Deep events are events that are not discussed or acknowledged openly in public discourse.  (They are only studied and discussed by “conspiracy theorists.”) And Deep state is the term used to describe the economic and political interests that work behind the scenes to influence policy and events.

     

    Scott attempts to find the common patterns in deep events in an attempt to uncover a common modus operandi.  This paper, 9/11, JFK, and War:  Recurring Patterns in America’s Deep Events  summarizes some commonalities between the two most heavily studied deep events:  The JFK assassination and 9/11.

     

    1.  Designated culprits are well identified before the event.  Biographies and photographs are ready for release immediately after the event.

     

    JFK:  In the case of Oswald, within fifteen minutes of the assassination and long before Oswald was picked up in the Texas Theater, the Dallas police put out on the police radio network, and possibly other networks, a description of the killer – 5’10”, 165 pounds.21  This exactly matched the measurements attributed to Lee Harvey Oswald in Oswald’s FBI file, and also in CIA documents about him.22

     

    This identification did not match the actual height and weight of the Lee Harvey Oswald who was picked up in Dallas and charged, which was five foot nine and 140 pounds.23 The 5’10” measurement was also suspect because it was attributed to Howard Brennan, who saw allegedly someone in the sixth floor window [from a distance of half a block away], but only from the waist up.  Brennan subsequently failed to pick out Oswald in a police line-up.24  One concludes that intelligence files rather than direct observation may have been responsible for the rapid decision to search for a killer with the exact measurement of 5’ 10”, 165 pounds. It appears that someone had already determined that Oswald would be the designated culprit, before there was any evidence to connect him to the crime.

     

    9/11:  [A]ccording to counterterrorism coordinator Richard Clarke, on 9/11 the FBI already had a list of alleged hijackers by 9:59 am on September 11, when the south tower collapsed.25     9:59 AM was at least four minutes before Flight United 93 had hit the ground.

     

    Even before this, shortly after 9:03 AM, Clarke himself had denoted the organization that would ultimately be blamed, telling Richard Cheney in the White House that in his opinion “It’s an al Qaeda attack and they like simultaneous attacks. This may not be over.”26

     

    2.  Paper trails laid by the designated suspects to facilitate their identification

     

    JFK:  Oswald is supposed in March 1963 to have purchased by mail order, using the name A. Hidell, the notorious Mannlicher-Carcano rifle that was said to have assassinated President Kennedy. This was needlessly self-incriminating, when in Dallas he could have bought a rifle anonymously by walking a few blocks to a gun shop.31 In August he asked to be interviewed by an FBI agent, to whom he showed a Fair Play for Cuba Committee card with the name A.J. Hidell, which he had already shown to a New Orleans police lieutenant. The information was transmitted to the local Office of Naval Intelligence and to the 112th Army Military Intelligence Group. On November 22, the name of Hidell in the 112th MIG file was instrumental, perhaps crucial, in clinching the superficial case against Oswald as an assassin.32

     

    9/11:  This irrational self-incrimination via paper trail was allegedly repeated in 2001 by Mohamed Atta, the principal alleged hijacker. In 2006, “a former FBI agent [Warren Flagg] and a former federal prosecutor … told Newsday that one bag found in Boston contained far more than what the commission report cited, including the names of the hijackers, their assignments and their al-Qaida connections.” [Other information in the car included a Atta's will, an audio tape about preparing spiritually for death and an operating manual for the airliner.–sand_puppy note]  The former prosecutor added, "These guys left behind a paper trail…. They had bank accounts. They rented cars. They had to show what they were doing in the United States.”33 

    Atta’s trove of information allegedly “provided the Rosetta stone enabling FBI agents to swiftly unravel the mystery of who carried out the suicide attacks and what motivated them.”34

     

    From David Ray Griffin:  Equally absurd is the claim that the passport of Ziad Jarrah, the alleged pilot of Flight 93, was found at this plane’s crash site in Pennsylvania.56 This passport was reportedly found on the ground even though there was virtually nothing at the site to indicate that an airliner had crashed there. The reason for this absence of wreckage, we were told, was that the plane had been headed downward at 580 miles per hour and, when it hit the spongy Pennsylvania soil, buried itself deep in the ground. New York Times journalist Jere Longman, surely repeating what he had been told by authorities, wrote: “The fuselage accordioned on itself more than thirty feet into the porous, backfilled ground. It was as if a marble had been dropped into water.”57 So, we are to believe, just before the plane buried itself in the earth, Jarrah’s passport escaped from the cockpit and landed on the ground. Did Jarrah, going 580 miles per hour, have the window open?58

     

    Charlie Hebdo:  The masked gunman leaves his drivers license in the getaway car.

     

    3.  Prior investigations of the designated culprits were suspended or impeded:

     

    JFK:  Oswald, who had been on the FBI’s watch list since his travel to the Soviet Union in 1959, was inexplicably taken off the watch list on October 9, 1963….

     

    9/11:  This is comparable to the obstruction by the Radical Fundamentalist Unit (RFU) at FBI Headquarters of the Minneapolis FBI’s efforts to interview [and search the computer] the so-called twentieth hijacker, Zacarias Moussaoui, after his arrest on August 15, 2001.47 Moussaoui knew most of the other nineteen alleged hijackers who were named in the hijackings, and an interview of him, if not impeded, could have led to the detention of the nineteen. A Minnesota Special Agent, Harry Samit, later testified that he wrote FBI headquarters about seventy memos on Moussaoui between August 16 and September 11, all to no avail.48

     

    4.   The Cover-Up Modus Operandi: The Culprit “Acted Alone”

     

                Always:  “a lone, deranged assassin…..”

     

    5.   JFK and 9/11 as Gateways to Already-Intended Wars

     

    JFK:  I think James Galbraith has correctly linked one suppressed issue – how Kennedy’s death was followed immediately by presidential authorization for planning operations against North Vietnam – to another suppressed issue – the desire in 1963 of some in the Pentagon to use nuclear weapons in a first strike against the Soviet Union.122

     

    The United States held an overwhelming nuclear advantage in late 1963. Accordingly, our nuclear plans were not actually about deterrence. Rather, then as evidently again now, they envisioned preventive war fought over a pretext.123

     

    And yet, standing against them (as Daniel Ellsberg was told at the time), the civilian leaders of the United States were determined never, under any circumstances, to allow U.S. nuclear weapons to be used first.

     

    If Galbraith is right to place the JFK assassination in the context of the Pentagon’s nuclear ambitions, then the assassination in 1963 can be seen as eerily similar to the critical moment of 9/11 in 2001.  In contemporary language, both crises occurred at a time when an inside group were determined to establish and maintain unilateral U.S. military dominance in the world.

     

    9/11:   The phrase “preventive war fought over a pretext” is uncannily apt with respect to Iraq in 2003.

     

    My summary

     

    We need to not allow our hearts and minds to be jerked around by events staged by the deep state.  We all need to wisely become “conspiracy theorists” and study enough of how these deceptions operate that we are not puppets whose heart strings can be yanked by intelligence agencies and send us screaming in our grief, fear and rage–into war.

    Leaving a world worth inheriting depends on this.

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  • Thu, Jan 15, 2015 - 1:22am

    #41
    aggrivated

    aggrivated

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Sep 22 2010

    Posts: 441

    Is France safe?

    I spoke with a Jewish friend of mine yesterday about all the Paris events.  It is the opinion of many French Jews (BTW France has the largest population of Jews in Europe) that it's time to leave the country.  She knows of a number of her friends from there that are now planning their exit.  The French press has only mentioned that a kosher grocery was involved in the final standoff, not that the gunmen decided to take out a few more Jews on their way to glory. Maybe this was a deliberate effort to not fear monger, but it didn't work on the locals.  

    This was a well planned terrorist attack with do or die intensity.  I'm not sure anything short of a SWAT team on site would have protected either of these groups of people. The hired cop was not enough.  In some situations the civil authorities can only clean/cover up the aftermath.   

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  • Thu, Jan 15, 2015 - 2:00pm

    Reply to #41

    Bankers Slave

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

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    Posts: 513

    Will this be used

    to justify further incursion into Palestine and expansion of Israeli settlements? Real estate stained with the blood of Palestinians. "We wage war by deception".

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  • Thu, Jan 15, 2015 - 2:46pm

    #42

    Bankers Slave

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jul 26 2012

    Posts: 513

    Brave man indeed.

    http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2015/01/13/392974/All-markings-of-false-flag-op-in-Paris

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  • Thu, Jan 15, 2015 - 6:11pm

    #43

    sand_puppy

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 1837

    Channeling Grief for the Police State

    When we grieve, boundaries are set aside as we share the intense experience of sadness, even with people we might not feel too close to at other times.  We have a period of solidarity.

     

     

    Question:  How will this collective moment of grief and solidarity be used?

    Answer:  To increase police surveillance and social control.  For our protection.

    European Powers Implement Police State Measures in Wake of Charlie Hebdo Attack

    1.  The French prime minister promised more money for the secret services and more effective surveillance.  The threat is permanent.

    2.  At a European powers security summit, participants agreed that a European-wide airline passenger data tracking system must be adopted as quickly as possible.  US General Michael Hayden, Chief of the NSA, participated.

    3.  In Germany, Chancellor Angela Merkel (Christian Democratic Union, CDU) has called for better international intelligence coordination and more funding for intelligence staff.

    4.  Last year, the European Court of Justice ruled that warrantless global monitoring and collection of personal data was illegal. It explained that the storage of communications could not abrogate professional secrets, including those of journalists. Now, in the name of defending the freedom of the press, the German ruling class is pushing to rapidly implement a European NSA.

    5.  Germany:  Surveillance of websites, emails and phone traffic will be used to identify "potential attackers" and identity cards will be canceled. 

    7.  In Britain, Prime Minister David Cameron has announced a drastic expansion of Internet surveillance and a ban on encryption.

    8.  The Italian government announced a significant expansion of state powers.

    • withdraw the passport of any terrorism suspect.
    • provide the police and judiciary with extraordinary powers that will allow increased Internet surveillance.
    • shut down suspicious websites.
    • Internet service providers will be required to cooperate in the future, to “track messages in the network that contribute to radicalization” 
    • The government would prohibit providers from accepting websites that incite extremism.

    The main purpose of this coordinated offensive by the European powers is not the fight against an  “Islamist threat.” The ruling elites are increasingly turning the continent into a police state as popular resistance against the European Union and its policies is growing.

    Yes, things are speeding up.

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  • Fri, Jan 16, 2015 - 1:13am

    Reply to #30
    aggrivated

    aggrivated

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

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    Posts: 441

    Charlie Hebdo--false flag attack analysis

    Paul Craig Roberts brings some very good insight into this event.   http://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/01/paul-craig-roberts/false-flag/    &nbsp; My only criticism of his analysis is that I don't think it is unlikely that a Muslim would hesitate to avenge his god.  I'm not at all sure that a day in court would be considered a suitable substitute.  His thoughts on the driver turning himself in,  the out of character leaving the ID in the car, and the inspector's suicide are all spot on.   To tie all this back into Chris' article on Russia— The CIA and  USA NGO's have done similar things in Ukraine.  Is all this setting up scenarios to foment unrest when the economy comes unglued?  The French have been primed for an excuse for marshal law. 

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  • Fri, Jan 16, 2015 - 1:16am

    Reply to #41

    Boomer41

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Nov 30 2008

    Posts: 109

    Safety of France

    Having worked and traveled in France for many years, I can only say that I feel very safe there.

    France is a large country with low population density. The rural areas (i.e. most of France) are very safe indeed. The biggest danger is probably a dog bite. Young people are exceptionally well behaved and, especially compared to their counterparts in the UK, extremely polite.

    The larger cities have low crime compared to major cities in the US. I wouldn't think twice about walking alone in Paris, Lyon or Bordeaux at night. There is, of course, petty theft (I've had three bikes stolen in various cities, mostly my fault for not locking them) but the papers do not often have stories of violent crime. Those assaults and murders that are reported usually involve family or neighbors.

    Apart from major events such as the Charlie Hebdo attack, most of the serious violence I read about in the French papers seems to take place in the urban sprawl north of Paris and near Marseille, where there are large concentrations of immigrants.

    No country on earth is completely safe. IMHO France is safer than most.

     

     

     

     

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  • Fri, Jan 16, 2015 - 2:27am

    #44

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    Play It Again Sam

    What did it for me was when the perpetrators left a ID card in their get-away car, allowing the cops to instantly identify them.

    Anyone else remember the hijackers passport found on the ground in the 9/11 incident?

    Conspiracy is a way of life for some- but they don't seem to be getting any better at it. They display a certain lack of creativity and should be fired by their bosses. 

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  • Sun, Jan 18, 2015 - 11:08am

    #45

    Bankers Slave

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jul 26 2012

    Posts: 513

    Deli terror suspect executed with hands tied?

    Charlie Hebdo: Report from Europe

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  • Sun, Jan 18, 2015 - 4:36pm

    #46

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2225

    Some interesting observances

    Poor form (using your buddies as a backstop):

    And check out right around 2:30 in the clip below (hands tied? – wit eludes me here):

    Everyone in Paris must be deaf by now.

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  • Tue, Jan 20, 2015 - 5:54am

    #47

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2225

    Re: Exciting Skin Fungus Studies

    Oh Dear.  Now the Spam-Bot-Gods are angry.

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  • Tue, Jan 20, 2015 - 11:32am

    #48

    Bankers Slave

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jul 26 2012

    Posts: 513

    is it just coincidence

    or could there be a link between the recent release of the movie "Exodus" and the timely call for Jews to flock to Israel in the aftermath of the alleged Paris terror attack. Just saying!

    Just me and my conspiratorial mind working overtime again!

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  • Tue, Jan 20, 2015 - 2:41pm

    Reply to #48
    Doug

    Doug

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 01 2008

    Posts: 1357

    over the line

    Yeh, I think you take this one a bit too far.  I suspect Exodus was "in the can" and scheduled for release long before the attacks.

    Doug

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  • Tue, Jan 20, 2015 - 3:32pm

    #49

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2225

    You cannot bend the spoon Doug.

    Rather, you should realize that there is no line, nor is there a spoon.  I was recently asked "Whatever happened to the old you?"  A service was held out back at noon.  Being a bit sentimental, I brought flowers.

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  • Tue, Jan 20, 2015 - 3:55pm

    Reply to #44

    HughK

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Mar 06 2012

    Posts: 571

    Arthur Robey wrote:What did

    [quote=Arthur Robey]

    What did it for me was when the perpetrators left a ID card in their get-away car, allowing the cops to instantly identify them.

    Anyone else remember the hijackers passport found on the ground in the 9/11 incident?

    Conspiracy is a way of life for some- but they don't seem to be getting any better at it. They display a certain lack of creativity and should be fired by their bosses. 

    [/quote]

    Jet fuel, and even just office furnishings, can melt steel but certainly not laminated passport paper, dontchaknow.  Black boxes:  lost…   Positive terrorist ID: FOUND!

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  • Tue, Jan 20, 2015 - 4:02pm

    Reply to #49

    HughK

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Mar 06 2012

    Posts: 571

    Believing something does not make it real.

    [quote=Time2help]

    Rather, you should realize that there is no line, nor is there a spoon.  I was recently asked "Whatever happened to the old you?"  A service was held out back at noon.  Being a bit sentimental, I brought flowers.

    [/quote]

    There is a difference between deep personal transformation and disregarding the need for evidence.  

    And there is most definitely a line.  I don't know exactly where it is, but I do know that these two characters both crossed it, albeit in different directions:

     


    EDIT: In the interest of keeping things current, I switched out Henry, and put in Uncle Dick

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  • Tue, Jan 20, 2015 - 4:48pm

    Reply to #48

    Bankers Slave

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jul 26 2012

    Posts: 513

    With 9/11

    references in many movies and cartoons years prior to the event, Sandy Hook, Batman shooting tied together at the cinema screening and in the movie itself, then its not too hard to start drawing conclusions from all this.

    They have used westerns and war movies out of Hollywood for many years to demonise everyone except the real genocidal maniacs. And today it continues unabated with middle eastern terrorists. Does Hollywood have connections to the MSM or have I crossed that line in the sand again? Again I am just saying.

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  • Tue, Jan 20, 2015 - 5:02pm

    Reply to #49

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2225

    Is Reality Belief?

    [quote=HughK]

    There is a difference between deep personal transformation and disregarding the need for evidence.  

    And there is most definitely a line.

    [/quote]

    I appreciated your comment and I agree with you regarding your line, however that was not the line to which I was referring.

    With respect to disregarding the need for evidence, there's plenty if you look (that dog won't hunt).

    With respect to "Believing something does not make it real".  What is real?

     

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  • Wed, Jan 21, 2015 - 12:53am

    #50

    pinecarr

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 13 2008

    Posts: 1085

    Dmitry Orlov: Peculiarities of Russian National Character

    Dmitry Orlov has a really interesting article on the nature of the Russian National Character and the forces and environment that have contributed to shaping it.

    http://www.cluborlov.blogspot.com/2015/01/peculiarities-of-russian-national.html

    Recent events, such as the overthrow of the government in Ukraine, the secession of Crimea and its decision to join the Russian Federation, the subsequent military campaign against civilians in Eastern Ukraine, western sanctions against Russia, and, most recently, the attack on the ruble, have caused a certain phase transition to occur within Russian society, which, I believe, is very poorly, if at all, understood in the west. This lack of understanding puts Europe at a significant disadvantage in being able to negotiate an end to this crisis.

    Whereas prior to these events the Russians were rather content to consider themselves “just another European country,” they have now remembered that they are a distinct civilization, with different civilizational roots (Byzantium rather than Rome)—one that has been subject to concerted western efforts to destroy it once or twice a century, be it by Sweden, Poland, France, Germany, or some combination of the above. This has conditioned the Russian character in a specific set of ways which, if not adequately understood, is likely to lead to disaster for Europe and the world.

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  • Sat, Feb 07, 2015 - 5:19pm

    #51
    astatus

    astatus

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 06 2015

    Posts: 1

    Poor Ukraine People!

    It seems to me.Started the process of Ukraines Marination , to be sold or eaten by the Super powers , ( friends ? Members? Crows?) as A Piece of STEAK .Makes No Difference !WIN OR LOOSE , UKRAINE PEOPLE WILL BE SLAVES FOR MANY GENERATION TO BANKERS !!!

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