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    The Importance Of A Resilient Life

    In the end, it will mean all the difference
    by Chris Martenson

    Wednesday, October 9, 2019, 4:00 AM

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My business partner Adam and I recently met with a successful business owner whose career began on Wall Street. The kind of guy who should be rooting for the system, because it has treated him well.

Instead, he was quite nervous about the sustainability of the status quo. “Starting in August,” he said, “Maybe it was the Amazon catching fire, maybe it was the negative interest rates – I don’t know for certain what the trigger was – but something has snapped.”

I agree. Because I feel it, too.

As do so many others. And not just those who regularly read PeakProsperity.com. Increasingly, even ‘mainstream’ voices are stating to report a profound sense that something really isn’t right. That — from the economy to geopolitics to the natural world — things are swiftly worsening.

Public perception is beginning to shift from complacency to fear. Countries are fast rejecting globalization in favor of nationalization. The holes in our ecosystem — vanishing birds, insects, amphibians and fish stocks — are becoming frighteningly obvious. The threats to life as we’re accustomed to it are becoming more visible while accelerating in both magnitude and frequency.

I expounded on the danger of this in my recent report It’s the Pace of Change That Kills You. Negative developments can spark their own vicious cycle. The more components of a system that fail, the more at risk the remaining components become.

That report was published just two weeks ago. Since then the world’s largest oil refinery was attacked by hostile forces and knocked out of commission, throwing the future integrity of the global oil market into question. Scientists just announced that North America has lost 29% of its total bird population (a drop of -3 billion) in the past half century. And Houston suffered another devastating round of “500 year” flooding due to another stalled storm system dumping as much as 40 inches of rain in some spots (and as of this moment, it’s still raining there).

The pace of change is speeding up. Welcome to living in an exponential world.

Our mission at Peak Prosperity is to Create A World Worth Inheriting.  We’ve been at it for a decade and, honestly, who knows if we’ll succeed?  The odds were never really in our favor, just two guys with a website and a message. But we’re trying our hardest, regardless.

And we’re being joined by a growing chorus of scientists and thoughtful people like you who observe that despite our best efforts, the predicaments the world faces have only grown larger and more intractable.

Which is why we’ve long been so focused on promoting resilience.

As the systems we’re accustomed to begin to fail in earnest, the exact repercussions will be impossible to predict with certainty. Resilience will be the key to who perseveres (and even prospers) versus those who gets steamrolled.

We’ve done our best to serve as visible models for how to live a resilient life. We’ve ejected from the rat race, relocated our families to areas rich in community and resources, boosted our health and fitness, grown a percentage of our food, lessened our dependence on fossil fuels, and developed practical skills.

Along the way, we’ve helped thousands of people become more resilient, too.  Like us, they’ve discovered that being more resilient means being more alive, freer, in control of our destinies, and more connected to the people around us.

Personally, intimately ready for whatever might come.  At the household and local community levels and across many dimensions including financially, physically and emotionally.

Becoming Financially Resilient

Bubbles burst.

When they do, lots of people get hurt.  Jobs are lost, savings plundered, homes foreclosed on, and dreams are diminished.

Well, after the Dotcom Bubble and the Housing Bubble, here we are again: now nearly a decade into the Everything Bubble. And signs abound that it’s in the process of popping.

The #1 question we’re asked is: How do I avoid becoming collateral damage?

We counsel a few things. First everyone should immediately focus on living within or beneath their financial means, as those overextended and over-indebted will be the first casualties of the next recession. Those looking for helpful tips should read our recent report on Extreme Frugality.

Developing multiple streams of income is extremely important to financial resilience. There are many ways to do this: from owning businesses, income-yielding stocks and bonds, annuities, royalties, etc — or simply renting out part of your home on Airbnb or starting an Ebay side hustle. We especially like real estate as a vehicle for passive income given the tax advantages offered. Read our Primer On Investing For Inflation-Adjusting Income and watch our video series How To Invest In Real Estate For Safety & Profit to learn more.

Next, ensure that the financial wealth you’ve accumulated doesn’t evaporate when the current asset bubbles (yes, plural) burst.  If you’re money is in “paper wealth” like stocks, bonds, 401k’s or trusts, we highly recommend that you have it managed by competent professionals who understand the key risks. If you’re having trouble finding one, consider scheduling a free portfolio review with the financial advisory firm we endorse (one of my regular personal highlights is hearing just how pleased people are with the excellent and personalized service provided by these high integrity professionals.)

And if you’ve got money sitting in a bank, like a savings account or a CD, then please do yourself a favor and explore opening a Treasury Direct account. You’ll likely find doing so will return you a (much) higher yield on your cash and safeguard it against a potential bank failure.

Sadly, in this era of unprecedented money printing and market intervention, all of us need to take some precautions around the prospect that the serial bubble blowers at the central banks don’t actually know what they’re doing.

Which is why educating yourself about what’s really happening, and why, is essential.  Unfortunately, the vast majority of the financial and economic “information” out there is actually marketing copy and propaganda efforts designed to prevent you from figuring out what’s really going on.

History has shown us that those who don’t think for themselves will pay a high price.

The DotCom Bubble decimated the portfolios of those who had “invested” in ridiculous internet schemes that were clear and obvious money losers at every stage of their brief lifetimes.

The Housing Bubble forced investors to admit in retrospect that lending hairdressers from Las Vegas enough money to accumulate 19 homes was not a good idea.

But here in bubble 3, the Everything Bubble,  we have plenty of people “investing” merrily in companies that are burning $billions annually, owning trillions upon trillions of negative yielding debt, and living in houses that are even more expensive than the 2007 housing bubble heights.

It’s so extreme that a company even put this statement right into its initial public offering (IPO) filing and still managed to find oodles of willing, excited investors:

“We have a history of net losses and we may not be able to achieve or maintain profitability in the future.”

~LYFT, 2019

Can you imagine?  The stock price should have been slaughtered immediately.  Instead it went up like a rocket on the opening day of trading. It has since retreated somewhat, but “the market” still values this perpetual money losing machine at more than $13 billion.

Remember the South Sea Bubble?  In 1720 in England there was such a frenzy around the the share prices of the South Sea Company that a dozens of ridiculous schemes popped up including one company that was going to make cannons that shot square cannon balls and on that even raised thousands of pounds promising this:  “For carrying-on an undertaking of great advantage but no-one to know what it is.”

It turns out that 1720 and 2020 are going to have a lot in common, mostly because bubbles are bubbles and humans are still humans.

Becoming Physically Resilient, Too

Money is for sure important. But simply having money doesn’t mean you’re resilient.

In fact, some of the richest people I know are also some of the most vulnerable.

Everybody should be actively working to make their home more resilient.  Some of the very best-returning investments you can make are in improvements like solar hot water, insulating your home, and otherwise finding ways to invest now and save later.

If you live in the northern hemisphere, now is the time to be putting your garden to bed, layering on the straw, and compost and grass clippings that will ensure richer soil for next season.  If you’re in the southern hemisphere, spring has arrived and it’s time to begin waking your garden up.

For those without a well-prepared homestead: a solid group of Peak Prosperity members and I are now actively exploring creating a new planned real estate community that will be optimized for resilience.

We don’t know exactly what this will look like yet, whether it will be something along the lines of an “intentional neighborhood,” people living in reasonable proximity to each other, or some a little bit bolder where each person brings a skill and we organize more fully around the idea of self-sufficiency.

It shocking how many people have reached out to me to express their interest in this project. So many folks are hungry for a better way to live.

Live Among Your Resilient Tribe

As humans, we all yearn to belong.  We all want to know that life matters, and that our own lives have meaning and purpose.

But at turbulent times like these, meaning and purpose take on additional importance.  They demand our attention.  The more out of balance things become, the more important it becomes that our efforts matter.

A while back I put out a podcast titled Living With Integrity that proved extremely popular.  Its core message was that our political, financial, corporate, and educational institutions are breaking their promises to us. Rather than serve our interests, they are constricting them.

Pharmaceutical companies started out with the aim of saving and improving lives, but now, all of the major companies are guilty of major abuses.  Some have addicted millions to opiates. Others have bankrupted patients by jacking up costs tremendously.  All to make a few more bucks for their execs.

Big Ag is similarly complicit. It uses neonicotinoid pesticides because they are cheaper and more cost effective at the expense of killing off a huge percent of our  once-vibrant insect and bird populations.  All to make a few more bucks.

Jeffrey Epstein died under unbelievable circumstances and now virtually nothing is happening on that “investigation.”  The rules of law and justice for victims are being gutted.  All to protect those in power who might be implicated were this to go to a trial.

It’s time for good people of impeccable character — like you — to recognize that the current system is neither sustainable nor worth preserving in its current low-integrity form.

Rather than deluding ourselves and squandering precious time waiting for the government to ‘”fix” things, we’re far better served taking our destiny into our own hands.

Truthfully, there’s not a lot worth preserving in the current culture of isolation and meaningless jobs.  People are hungry for more.  If you’re like Adam and me, you want your life to matter.  You want to live with purpose, integrity and happiness.

In Part 2: Resilient Relocation, I share the process for the intentional community we’re building. The detailed vision. The requirements for the property we’re hunting for. The skills, attitudes and expertise I’m looking for when (very carefully) choosing who to accept into this community. The incentives for fostering the right group dynamics and discouraging the wrong ones. The financial realities.

Read on if you’d like to learn more about this specific resilient relocation project, or if you’d like to integrate its insights into one of your own.

Click here to read Part 2 of this report (free executive summary, enrollment required for full access).

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60 Comments

  • Sat, Sep 21, 2019 - 6:19am

    #1

    LesPhelps

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 30 2009

    Posts: 484

    5+

    It’s not just the leadership that is lost...

    Almost every day, we walk around a delightful 290 acre lake in Central Wisconsin.  We get to watch people water skiing, riding jet skis and fishing, frequently in boats that are not only oversized and over powered for the lake, but IMHO, for the “sport” of fishing entirely, with the possible exception of offshore fishing in the ocean or Great Lakes.

    People don’t ski in normal size boats, with 100 hp outboards, like we did, when I was young.  Mostly, the ski in far larger, more powerful boats.  Some of the private ski boats we see are dedicate $70,000 ski boats that dwarf normal boats.

    Our lake is home for a water ski team.  It’s also the home for an annual water ski team competition.  Many of the ski team boats are monsters with two 300 hp outboard motors.  There are always a half dozen or so ski boats with THREE 300 hp outboards… 900 horse power boats dedicated to water skiing.

    But, that’s just recreational energy irresponsibly.  There are more hideous signs of how misguided the society we live in is:

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  • Sat, Sep 21, 2019 - 10:18am

    Reply to #1
    phoenixl

    phoenixl

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    Joined: Nov 01 2015

    Posts: 9

    10+

    northern Wisconsin

    I’m a prof at UWGB and point these things out to students (bigger and more things you don’t need) but still many are invested in big trucks/boats/ATVs. I try to drive home that technology won’t save you, but changing your ways in every sense might –or at least delay for much longer what you might have to endure. This does not make me popular with the physical sciences/engineering/economists. It’s time to retire and move somewhere where resilience is still possible. Still trying to settle on where that is.

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  • Sat, Sep 21, 2019 - 2:08pm

    #2
    Crapper

    Crapper

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    Joined: Jun 01 2019

    Posts: 12

    4+

    A Dark Age is coming - challenge your values!

    “It’s time for good people of impeccable character — like you…”

    “Impeccable character”???? Really??? We’re heading into a decline, a collapse, … death, starvation and desperation. School teachers will be had for $20 (like in Greece) or only $2 (like in Venezuela) …. not for an hour, but for a whole night… but only if they’re young and pretty! Wink, wink! I’m not joking, this is what happens when society BEGINS to fall apart. When society enters the final Dark Age collapse, values have to change rapidly, or you die, Die, DIE!!!!!!

    So from Crapper, here’s a few pointers to expand your imagination. Hate and violence will be winning attributes. That’s right… and that’s only the start. Connect with your inner self and embrace the hate. Then get yourself off to the local fight club and learn how to take a whack to the head without losing one’s senses. This is just the beginning of preparation.

    Any community you connect with must look like you – and skin color/colour is EVERYTHING! If you think you’re gonna be accepted by a bunch of people who don’t look like you just because you want to hold their hands and sing Kumbaya then you’re kidding yourself. Racial slaughter is standard fare in a Dark Age.

    And one further note to wet those mental juices: where are you gonna get the protein when the famine sets in? Chickens? Yeah, maybe. But they’re best used as bait, for thieves…. lots of protein on those “two-legged hogs” we see all around us every day. You think I’m ridiculous? Outrageous? Disgusting? Abhorrent even? Study up on famines as I have. Study Dark Ages throughout history as I have. It opens one’s preconceived ideas of how the world should work and how it does work when the proverbial doo-doo hits the fan.

    This civilization is doomed…. just like the Titanic. I say crack open a beer and enjoy the show… but be connected with your inner savage for when you must jump on the first life boat, laughing with manic glee at those left behind with a raised middle finger… and enter the dark night of what we once knew.

    The Age of Disintegration starts in the coming decade (only a few months away). Our world will change rapidly, and so must our values. What won in the age of ascent will lose in the age of decent. Very sad… but very true.

    I’m off to holiday in Southern Europe next week … I’ve decided to get some “teacher education” so I’m all stocked up on $20 notes (just kidding, just kidding!).

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  • Sat, Sep 21, 2019 - 3:42pm

    #3
    brushhog

    brushhog

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    Joined: Oct 06 2015

    Posts: 56

    11+

    We're here trying

    My wife, young son and I are out here doing it so it can be done. I’m glad to read that we can check most of the boxes on the list. We have multiple income streams. Wife works part time outside the home. I have income producing investments including one rental property.
    Our home is a nice 100 acre property with excellent soils, good variety of hard and soft woods, nice neighbors, and family close by. House is set back and not visible from the road. Lots of deer, turkey, several creeks, and about 20 acres of open pasture on which we graze a few cows and sheep. We have a hay field for winter feed.
    We heat only with wood and have very good well water. We are about 20 miles from the town. Close enough to get to without hassle, but far enough to get away from the drama there.

    I think we are fairly resilient but there are still lots of things that I see we are lacking in. I rely too much on fossil fuels. I know it. There is no way I could bring the hay in without running the equipment. So this presents a problem if oil becomes scarce. We have no way of preserving meat without electricity either. I have plans to put in a smoke house at some point and would love to dig a root cellar.
    Theres just so much to do it sometimes seems overwhelming. Im hoping to have all the major pieces in place before I hit 50 in a few years. Then maybe I could slow down a little, lol.

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  • Sat, Sep 21, 2019 - 4:06pm

    Reply to #1

    LesPhelps

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 30 2009

    Posts: 484

    Moving

    Bugging out has it’s appeal.  There have been people trying that approach sine at least the 70s.

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  • Sun, Sep 22, 2019 - 8:44am

    #4

    jthier

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    Joined: Jan 12 2010

    Posts: 6

    10+

    Building a new ecovillage

    Hi Chris,

    Very interesting to hear that you are initiating an investigation into building a new community based on sustainability and resilience.  Nine months ago I moved my family from Perth, Western Australia to a lovely area 3 hours south in wine country called Margaret River.  I’ve joined a developer there who is building the most amazing resilient community I have ever come across, and we are about to launch the project in a few months.  This community of about 400 homes will be self-sufficient in water, power, sewer, and fresh fruit and vegetables. 

    It’s design is based on permaculture principles and best-practice urban design, where each house is part of a cluster that surrounds a community garden.  There is also a commercial village centre where there will be a range of local businesses and public spaces.  There is so much more but I won’t go into too much detail.  Anyone interested in finding out about it should have a good read through our website: Ecovillage  

    I hope this provides some useful information and insights into what can be achieved when all the current knowledge we possess is brought to bear.  Good luck with your efforts.  Cheers Jeff

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  • Sun, Sep 22, 2019 - 8:46am

    Reply to #4

    jthier

    Status Member (Offline)

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    Posts: 6

    1+

    Failed link

    Try this link http://www.ecovillage.net.au

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  • Mon, Sep 23, 2019 - 5:42am

    Reply to #4

    Oliveoilguy

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 29 2012

    Posts: 535

    2+

    Eco VilliageWebsire

    Jthier.

    With great interest I just toured the Website and very much like the concept. My one observation is to wish that the lots were larger. With homes and outbuildings and water storage and chicken coops it would seem that slightly larger lots would be in order. With all the activity and tightly packed housing, noise and privacy might become issues. I wonder if privacy fences between the yards are envisioned?

    Best of success to you on this venture.

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  • Mon, Sep 23, 2019 - 6:21am

    #5
    Penguin Will

    Penguin Will

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    Brushhog: I know what you mean. Sounds like we have similar plots. Yours sounds just a bit larger and no doubt a good bit flatter. :p

    It is easy to underestimate how difficult it is to get independence from the system. My wife and I were having a good laugh yesterday over dinner about how many weekend days, week day evenings, etc were spent just putting up tomato sauce, green beans, cherries and pears, etc. And our biggest crop, apples, didn’t come in at all this season.

    This is probably not going to be well accepted by some, but I just don’t see how anyone could begin to feed a family on a garden alone. Regardless of size. If it is large enough to feed a family AND have excess capacity for the years when not everything goes right? Then it’s a full time job not something you could do with an evening here and there. Is that realistic when you need one foot in the mainstream economy and one foot in the homesteading one in order to make ends meet?

    A good sized orchard helps. I love how they do so much with so little time invested. But I have come to the conclusion that without running stock it is just about impossible to fully unplug. Not that it is an all or nothing proposition. I have made great strides without doing so even though it’s in the mid term plan. All of it worthwhile I think. But being honest I know that without taking that step I’m still tethered to the system.

    PS: I have a smokehouse on the drawing board as well. I have always wanted to run a few hogs and learn how to cure my own meat.

    Will

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  • Mon, Sep 23, 2019 - 6:35am

    Reply to #4

    Oliveoilguy

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 29 2012

    Posts: 535

    Can’t seem to edit my post.

    I get a “not found” error message when trying to edit. I guess everyone knows what a “websire” is

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  • Mon, Sep 23, 2019 - 6:59am

    Reply to #4

    Chris Martenson

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 07 2007

    Posts: 4733

    1+

    Ecovillage.net.au

    This community of about 400 homes will be self-sufficient in water, power, sewer, and fresh fruit and vegetables.  It’s design is based on permaculture principles and best-practice urban design, where each house is part of a cluster that surrounds a community garden.

    I love the planning and the crisp articulation that has gone into the project!  Lots of great ideas in there, as well as the complexities (the thinking on pets for example).

    I wish you the very best of success with that project and would heartily endorse interested Australians to give it a close look.  Probably worth a podcast at some point to explore the ideas and shine a light on it?

    We’d all love to hear about the interest int eh project.  Is it robust?  Do you think you’ll sell it out quickly or will it take years?  What sorts of excitement or concerns are interested parties sharing with you?  What sorts of cross sections of people are attracted – is it all ageing Hippies or?

    P.S. I fixed your link in your first comment.

     

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  • Mon, Sep 23, 2019 - 8:12am

    Reply to #4

    jthier

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 12 2010

    Posts: 6

    Ecovillage

    Yes privacy fencing on the side and low fencing along the street and back boundary interface with the community garden to promote social interaction. There are a broad range of lot sizes to suit different demographics, household sizes and income levels. Smallest are 3500ft2 that would suit singles or couples. Mid size are cottage lots of 4500ft2 for small families. Largest are 10000ft2 lots that suit larger families or garden enthusiasts. Separate to these privately owned areas are ‘exclusive use zones’ within the large common community garden which might add 2000ft2 of useable space to a family lot. These areas are designed for veggie gardens and will receive plentiful water from the large on site reservoirs. The size of the lots needs to be understood in the context of the extensive communal and public spaces surrounding the lots which essentially make up the living environment.

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  • Mon, Sep 23, 2019 - 9:32am

    #6

    Michael_Rudmin

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 25 2014

    Posts: 874

    My ideas on how to feed family on 1/4 acre garden.

    Here’s how I would do it.
    #1.  Go underground — you can go as deep as you like.  Set up a system to tunnel down, and concrete around.
    #2.  Use human waste + imported nutrients as possible, to make your own STERILE nutrient mix.  Best advice there is process it with bacteria both aerobic and anaerobic before pasteurizing.
    #3.  Use clean-room hydroponics.  Look up (Univ. of Pennsy research, also Virginia Polytech Inst) ideal lumens and light cycle for each item, and make sure you supply them.  This is power intensive, but you can have a windmill on the outside to produce power.  You also have to import CO2; and you need a cleanroom to minimize attacks.  You maximize production this way.
    #4.  Windmill:  Best design I know is a concrete concentrating vortex.  It has the lowest-energy moving parts, so is most resilient.  I can sketch out the basic design, but you have spiral guides that concentrate wind from any direction into the vortex, which dumps to the top.  The turbine can be a tesla turbine.
    #5.  Aside from the clean room, you also have a “nonclean garden”, one below and one above.  In these, you keep chickens.  Get your seed for the hydroponic area from the gardens above, saving the best seed that keeps up with pests.   Your hydroponic farm should have a mix of the last (say) 5 year’s crops.
    #6.  So far, the hydroponic system does not seem to do well with bees.  Honeybees keep trying to escape, maybe due to temperature.  You may need to hand-pollinate, or experiment with that area more.
    #7.  Tunnel.  My best suggestion for a tunnel would be to build a TBM with a 2-man electric post-hole digger, and a spiral end.  Ever see a baby diaper-disposal with the continuous plastic bag feed?  on the side, have a loop of plastic that you fill with concrete as the spiraling feed goes around, and hold in place while it hardens.  Use that as the basis for a more solid wall system inside that, that gets installed every few feet.

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  • Mon, Sep 23, 2019 - 10:24am

    #7
    Thetallestmanonearth

    Thetallestmanonearth

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    Joined: Feb 28 2013

    Posts: 313

    1+

    Future podcast guest idea

    I’m not sure if this is the right forum for making introductions or suggestions, but I recently listened to a three part podcast interview of Daniel Schmachtenberger covering a lot of the same ground as Peak Prosperity with a solid design science and systems approach to dissecting our problems and proposing solutions.  Unfortunately I think his solutions discount human nature and scarcity issues, but he seems to point to some form of intentional community, expanded perhaps to a global scale.  Incubator communities like the one Chris discusses here may be the spark if this vision has any hope of rescuing us from ourselves.

    FTP057, 058, 059: Daniel Schmachtenberger – Solving The Generator Functions of Existential Risks

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  • Mon, Sep 23, 2019 - 6:39pm

    #8
    PaulaCraig

    PaulaCraig

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    Don't reinvent the wheel; there are lots of communities already out there

    Don’t reinvent the wheel if you don’t have to. It’s usually a lot easier to join an existing community than to start a new one. There are lots of communities out there, in the U.S. and around the world. There are many types (try looking for “cohousing,” for example, or check out the website ic.org). I spent two weeks in August 2019 at the Dancing Rabbit Community in rural Rutledge, Missouri, USA (near Hannibal, MO). Dancing Rabbit has about 50 people currently and is eager for more. They have about 280 acres of land, with lots of space for gardens and animals. They have housing in a variety of sizes and types for rent, and you can also build a house of your own on one of their lots. It’s possible for a single person to live well at Dancing Rabbit on an income of about $8,000-$12,000 USD per year. Couples and families need even less per person. They have excellent broadband internet access, and many residents work online. I had a great time while I was there.

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  • Tue, Sep 24, 2019 - 4:43am

    Reply to #3
    dadzcats

    dadzcats

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    Joined: Dec 07 2011

    Posts: 6

    1+

    Great job!

    I admire you for all that you have done. How do you imagine this playing out for you as you get older and (maybe)less able to manage the physical aspects of the property? I ask because my husband and I are in that place now – still able to garden and do carpentry/maintenance work (to a point)around the house but envisioning that this will diminish over time.

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  • Tue, Sep 24, 2019 - 4:53am

    Reply to #8
    dadzcats

    dadzcats

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    Joined: Dec 07 2011

    Posts: 6

    Paula, thanks for the reminder that many of these communities welcome a visit and/or short stay to get a feel for them.  I have periodically looked into some of them but have never visited.  I will make that a “to-do”  I am interested in hearing about others’ experiences of particular communities and their dynamics.

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  • Tue, Sep 24, 2019 - 5:07am

    Reply to #4
    dadzcats

    dadzcats

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    Posts: 6

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    Exciting Development

    I felt so much excitement as I read about your project on the website. It hits so many of my buttons conceptually though I haven’t studied the space and dimensions in detail yet.  I especially like that it provides living space for people in all stages of life.

    Can you explain the practical definition and implications of strata development?

    I’m not sure how you or anyone can address how to perpetuate that “like-mindedness” and commitment to the community as time goes on. This is a conundrum I think Chris and all of us will face in this endeavor. And, how do we plan for actually living together in community –  how do we create a place where everyone, regardless of age and ability can find purpose and make a contribution without being overbearingly structured? The physical design of the space goes a long way toward promoting all of that and reducing isolation but there would seem to be more to the equation to tease out.

    Good luck with this project – if I were in Australia, I’d be visiting it in a heartbeat!  Thank you for sharing!

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  • Tue, Sep 24, 2019 - 6:13am

    Reply to #4
    Sonerous

    Sonerous

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    Joined: Jun 10 2019

    Posts: 7

    2+

    Many cohousing options

    Jeff, I’ve seen the plans for the development and they look amazing.

    Back in the 1990s and 2000s, I investigated many permaculture/cohousing options in NSW/Qld/ACT  (including Sun Village, Crystal Waters**, Djarlanba, Cows Nest, and a couple of MOs in the Bellinger Valley). After originally “going it alone”–with friends who wanted to come with us but never ended up actually moving–I’ve finally washed up in a great community in NSW–about 20 households with 10Ha of land and within easy walking distance of a small town and public transport. Here’s a short video report on land management from our last AGM.

    I wasn’t here for the start–the lead period for development was about 6 years before the first houses startied to be built (10 years ago).

    A huge amount of work went into the pratical, logistic, and importantly, the human side. At this stage, earler mistakes are now being recognised, but overall, there has been so much energy and goodwill, and a good framework. I love that all decision-making is consensus-based and respectful. We spend a fair amount of time practising conflict resolution and we’re all lifelong learners. It’s not perfect but I haven’t seen anything better.

    Of course this type of living doesn’t suit everyone. It requires co-operation, compromise, good intentions, and giving benefit of the doubt. But the results are fantastic.

    ** Recently, Crystal Waters released a 90 minute documentary celebrating their 30 year birthday. It’s inspiring.

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  • Tue, Oct 08, 2019 - 12:29pm

    #9
    Steve

    Steve

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 27 2009

    Posts: 21

    1+

    Resilient "Like-Minded" Community in North Georgia, USA

    Having my roots and extended family in Georgia, I am interested in finding a group of like-minded families/couples in the north Georgia mountains.  Who has recommendations of such a community?  Where do I find-out about such a group or community?

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  • Wed, Oct 09, 2019 - 4:37pm

    #10

    GerrySM

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 20 2017

    Posts: 31

    1+

    Crapper?

    Note to the mods: I notice that poster “Crapper” not only posts antiscience comments that deny global heating, but now also posts messages about “embracing hatred” and racial warfare. Time to ban this troll before he chases members away?

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  • Wed, Oct 09, 2019 - 5:27pm

    #11
    richcabot

    richcabot

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 05 2011

    Posts: 206

    A step in that direction

    I came across a project here outside Portland Oregon that might interest some.  It’s called Frog Pond Commons.

    https://www.frogpondcommons.com/

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  • Wed, Oct 09, 2019 - 6:49pm

    Reply to #4

    jthier

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 12 2010

    Posts: 6

    Building a new ecovillage

    Hi dadzcatz,

    Glad to hear that you like what we are trying to do at the Ecovillage.  Honestly, I’ve been working in this space for many years, and I’ve never come across a project quite like this (ie it ticks my boxes as well).  It is a huge honour to be working on the project on the front lines, and we hope it will be well received by the marketplace.  It feels like this is the right time and place for the concept (zeitgeist is right) so we are all very optimistic about the response.

    In terms of your comment about encouraging the creation of community, you are correct that it takes more than the physical environment but that is all we can start with now.  Once people start inhabiting the place, there will be a lot of work in building the social fabric and governance of the new community, but there are many models to learn from and I’m sure that we’ll manage.  As we are in a small town / ag region, one of the challenges is attracting working households (vs retirees) to provide the authentic diversity required for a vibrant place that includes children.  For retirees who don’t need to work, the sell is very easy.  For those who need to find paying employment, it is a more difficult puzzle to solve.  In the end, we are trying to create as many employment and new business opportunities associated with elements of the Ecovillage that we can to allow the most people to work locally.  And we also acknowledge that in future the household economy (ie doing more for ourselves and reducing outgoings) is part of the resilience strategy that doesn’t involve being close to external paid employment.  This is a point that David Holmgren makes in many of his talks and books.

    To address your question about “strata” – this is the term used for a lot or property that sits on a “parent” lot that is owned in common with others.  In the North American context, it would be similar to a condominium ownership structure.  In our case, there will be public streets that surround each cluster (owned and maintained by the local government), but each cluster will be a “parent” lot owned in common by those who purchase strata lots within it.  This will also include the large communal gardens in the centre that all residents have access to, which will feature a small community building for meetings, workshops and occasional communal meals, a fire pit, a playground, large landscaped swales, a covered orchard and individual space for each lot for vegetable gardens.  This last category allows each resident to use part of the common space as their own for this purpose, but importantly they can get access to water from the three 100ML dams.  In Western Australia there are laws about collecting water communally and then using it on private lots (health risk I guess) so this is a work-around for that problem.

    We are just about to launch a new website to support the lot sales process, and I will post a note once that goes live.  It will include additional updated drawings and information about the project for those interested.

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  • Wed, Oct 09, 2019 - 8:15pm

    #12
    ao

    ao

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    Posts: 930

    1+

    there's a potential problem with resilient/like-minded/intentional communities

    At first glance, they look very appealing.  I’d be interested in becoming part of one.  It’d be nice to go to the local beach and not have to clean up dog poop, used baby diapers, broken glass, plastic pieces, paper waste, bottles, cans, and other detritus left by less enlightened members of our society.  It’d be nice not to have noise pollution from neighbors with dogs they allow to bark for hours on end at all hours of the day and night.  It’d be nice not to have light pollution from neighbors leaving on multiple high wattage outdoor lighting all night long (even though our crime rate is very low and our neighborhood is particularly safe, guarded as it is by all the barking dogs).  It’d be nice to share extra produce with neighbors and not have them refuse it because they don’t know what those weird vegetables are and they much prefer their frozen pizza (that leaves evidence of its consumption in the many cardboard boxes in their cardboard recycling).  It’d be nice to live in a neighborhood where outdoor burning is not allowed and where neighbors especially have the common sense not to burn plastics and then, compound the problem by having their kids roast marshmallows around the fire (so not only are their lungs polluted but also their “food”).  And my favorite, it’d be nice not to have neighbors going round and round in their backyard pulling their kids on a sled with a snowmobile (meanwhile contaminating the clean fresh winter air with the smell of exhaust smoke, contaminating the silence of a snow covered landscape with the raucous sound of a minimally muffled internal combustion engine, and contaminating their poor kids’ lungs and circulatory systems with all manner of hydrocarbon waste products while wondering why these same kids have behavioral issues and don’t do well academically).  NB – despite the above, I still like our neighborhood and the people in it, with a few exceptions.
    But then I think a little more and consider a collapse scenario and we’re living in a resilient community.  Our little resilient community is doing surprisingly well, considering the adverse circumstances.  Members of the much larger nearby non-resilient communities take notice.  They see the “resiliency inequality”.  And they wonder why they don’t have what the resilients have.  Envy begins to poison their minds.  To add fuel to the fire, the government party in power needs scapegoats to help explain its way out of the cluster**** it helped create.  They begin accusing the resilient community of “hoarding”.  That certainly can be the only explanation as to why this minority is thriving and the majority is not.  So the party looses the dogs of conflict and demands distribution of the abundance of the resilients to the non-resilients.  They may even give carte blanche to the majority non-resilients to take from the minority resilients, by force if necessary, with a thank you of course to the generous party in power that allows this to happen.  So the resilients become the kulaks, the non-resilients become the peasants, and the party in power becomes the Soviet Communist Party.  As history tells us, this didn’t end well for the kulaks.
    So alas, we will refrain from joining such a community and instead, stay low key and under the radar while maintaining fellowship with a network of nearby friends and acquaintances in the community to share knowledge, skills, tools, food, etc. as needed.  It just seems to me I have more options open with this path and while that may be an illusion, I still feel a little safer this way.  I don’t know for an absolute fact whether the Jews who hid their identity (if possible) and remained sprinkled throughout the German communities did better than those concentrated and readily identified in the ghettos but my intuition tells me this is the best path for me, my family, and friends.  YMMV    .      

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  • Wed, Oct 09, 2019 - 10:34pm

    Reply to #10

    davefairtex

    Status Diamond Member (Offline)

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 3194

    7+

    crapper: anti science, racial warfare, hate speech

    Note to the mods: I notice that poster “Crapper” not only posts antiscience comments that deny global heating, but now also posts messages about “embracing hatred” and racial warfare. Time to ban this troll before he chases members away?

    Gasp.  Anti-science, denying global heating.  And he’s a racist?  And hate speech too?  All Blue Church boxes checked, indicating:  “your speech must be suppressed”!

    I find that the current Overton Window for “science” is pretty narrow these days, and it is often politically or commercially motivated.  So I tend to err on the side of forgiveness for this particular sin.  And of course “racism” and “hate speech” charges are so stereotypically over used I just ignore them at this point.

    My problem with Crapper is – he appears to be a narcissist.  He comes here just to devalue people for his own amusement.  He’s pretty clever though; during his assaults, he says just enough things that align with some people here and that gets him those critical up-votes.  This way he can both assault other members, and get up-votes at the same time.  Those up-votes are his drug and reward.  To him, they say: “you approve of me assaulting people!  I’m gonna keep doing it!”

    https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20366662

    It makes me wonder: are up-votes really a good idea?  I mean, I like them too…but…without them, people like Crapper would probably not engage.  No reward = no reason to come.

    Just a thought.

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  • Wed, Oct 09, 2019 - 10:59pm

    Reply to #10

    Mots

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 18 2012

    Posts: 83

    3+

    crapper: anti science, racial warfare, hate speech

    I have to agree with Fairtexer about crapper (speech should not be suppressed).  I triggered the crap man when I texted out negative things about “over fed Americans” etc and I think that he picked up on that.  Also, we do not learn by agreeing and resonating with each other.  Resonance is not communication.  All communication by its very nature requires new, discordant information to be accepted and internalized.  In this same context I note that all really good new inventions violate government regulations, sometimes basic law and norms of human customs.  A good analogy is to consider where our food comes from, and don’t forget mushrooms………………..

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  • Thu, Oct 10, 2019 - 8:20am

    #13

    newsbuoy

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Dec 10 2013

    Posts: 156

    Crapper Unmasked

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  • Thu, Oct 10, 2019 - 8:38am

    Reply to #10

    newsbuoy

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Dec 10 2013

    Posts: 156

    Realsilience and anti-fragility for profit and fun

    I would counter your motion to ban the “American Fascist” because he’s showing you a piece of reality that is uncomfortable for you. YOU must learn to hear him. I humbly recommend you read up on Aikido, in particular you may find ‘The Way of Aikido- Life Lessons from An American Sensei” by George Leonard profitable. Likewise, Chris Hedges wrote the book entitled “American Fascists: The Christian Right and The War on America” in 2006. My! how time flies.

    “Everybody know the dice are loaded…”

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  • Thu, Oct 10, 2019 - 9:56am

    #14

    davefairtex

    Status Diamond Member (Offline)

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 3194

    mesh network - off-grid short range comms system

    I asked a ham friend of mine about off grid comms, and what his recommendation was for providing service in the event we lost our friendly phone service.  He recommended the following product:

    https://gotennamesh.com/products/mesh?gclid=EAIaIQobChMInejggo6S5QIVlh6tBh0oDg0tEAAYASAAEgKbdvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

    From the wiki:

    goTenna (goTenna Inc.) is a Brooklyn, New York-based startup that designs and develops technologies for off-grid and decentralized communications. goTenna devices pair with smartphones and, through intelligent mobile ad hoc networking protocols, enable users to send texts and share locations on a peer-to-peer basis, foregoing the need for centralized communications infrastructure of any kind.

    ————

    It’s basically a radio that pairs with your phone using bluetooth (horribly insecure, but that’s a story for another day) and each radio operates as a node in a store-and-forward mesh network.  You forward other people’s text messages too.

    No voice, no images.  Messages within your group are encrypted.  “Shout” messages (sent to every gotenna within range) are in the clear.

    It seems like quite the product.  I don’t know if you can disable the “participate in the rest of the mesh” feature and go “truly offline”, but in all other respects, it would seem to be a pretty good backup communication system for a relatively close proximity intentional community.

    Point-to-point range is supposedly 4 miles.  2 watt radio.  Battery life: 24 hours.

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  • Thu, Oct 10, 2019 - 10:32am

    Reply to #10

    Pipyman

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 24 2011

    Posts: 66

    Well Said

    I also note the “fear stage” energy which frankly just bores me. Of course, I’m sure that comment will just stoke the “pip’s just delusional” response. But for the record, you may well be right Crapper, but it doesn’t change my feelings on the matter…

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  • Thu, Oct 10, 2019 - 5:09pm

    #15

    GerrySM

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 20 2017

    Posts: 31

    Pull the other leg....

    I find that the current Overton Window for “science” is pretty narrow these days, and it is often politically or commercially motivated.

    Climate science is politically motivated, eh? Where have I heard that before … oh, that’s right, in the right wing denial blogosphere. So pull the other leg. Over 120,000+ (and counting) peer reviewed published science papers from around the globe on global heating are not motivated by politics, and cannot be. Getting scientists to toe a political line would be like herding cats.

    However, those claiming that these papers are politically driven are themselves always motivated by politics.

    I have to agree with Fairtexer about crapper (speech should not be suppressed).

    Well, a lot of outlets on the internet disagree with you. Climate denial has been banned on Reddit, the BBC, and several other venues. The deniers have been given an audience and a hearing for two decades now, but they still cannot come up with science to refute what we know, and still regurgitate all the myths about anthropogenic global heating.

    There comes a time when you lose patience with people shouting “Fire!” in a packed cinema. And when the person in question also starts promoting racial hatred, surely you draw the line?

     

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  • Thu, Oct 10, 2019 - 5:24pm

    Reply to #10
    efarmer.ny

    efarmer.ny

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    Posts: 12

    7+

    antiscience comments that deny global heating

    I don’t want to hijack this thread, so I am a bit leery about posting this. But I think it is important to note that the climate models are set for a major change. The tl;dr is that models to-date only include total solar irradiance as input from outside the earth. Now models can include the host of other ways that the solar system interacts with earth – solar particles, magnetism, cosmic rays, etc. When seen from this perspective, we are probably looking at a cooler future. Here is the 9 minute introductory video. In the hour-long video, there are more direct references to the 600+ studies that point in this direction and interviews with some of the scientists that take this view.

    And just for the record, I don’t think this is an excuse to over-tax the resources we have on Earth. I just keep trying to find the “truth” because I have a homestead too and deciding whether to work toward a cold or heat based future factors into my planning.

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  • Thu, Oct 10, 2019 - 5:34pm

    Reply to #10

    GerrySM

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 20 2017

    Posts: 31

    Tony Heller again!

    But I think it is important to note that the climate models are set for a major change….we are probably looking at a cooler future.

    Oh pah-LEEEEZE! You have linked a video by Tony Heller of “SuspiciousObservers” channel, a birther and well known fringe denial character. Heller is a slimy lawyer and a longtime conspiracy theorist who used to go by the alias Steve Goddard, and who fronts for fossil fuel industries, claiming that NASA has manipulated the historic temperature record to make it appear that the planet is warming.

    You cannot be dumb enough to believe this crap!

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  • Thu, Oct 10, 2019 - 7:14pm

    Reply to #15
    ao

    ao

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 04 2009

    Posts: 930

    2+

    something there is that doesn't love a wall

    There comes a time when you lose patience with people shouting “Fire!” in a packed cinema. And when the person in question also starts promoting racial hatred, surely you draw the line?

    You cannot be dumb enough to believe this crap!

    I wouldn’t get too upset about this Gerry.  If I’ve learned nothing in my life, I’ve learned this: that the universe always works towards BALANCE.  Things will cyclically go to one extreme (global cooling) and then to the opposite (global warming) but on the way from one to the other, they go through the balance point, again and again.  It’s the Yin and the Yang of all things.  If you have light, you need dark.  If you have matter, you need anti-matter.  If you have political liberals, you need political conservatives.  If you have science, you need anti-science.  One balances the other.  Cyclical change is the hallmark of existence and life.  Things staying perfectly the same is the equivalent of death.

    A certain level of contention and adversity strengthens and stimulates growth.  Too little, not good.  Too much, not good.  Attempted suppression of free speech will almost inevitably bring about the opposite effect.  Try to suppress it and it seems to flourish even more.   Historically, I always thought that it was fascinating that wherever Christianity was persecuted the most was where it seemed to thrive the most.   I’m reminded of Robert Frost’s poem, “Mending Wall”.

    https://poets.org/poem/mending-wall

    Fear not.  The truth will eventually out.  All things will assume their rightful place, eventually.  We each have our role to play.

     

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  • Thu, Oct 10, 2019 - 7:48pm

    Reply to #15

    davefairtex

    Status Diamond Member (Offline)

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 3194

    7+

    Science, your mission

    GerrySM

    Now I’m beginning to think you’re a troll.  I mean, you get offended at literally everything.  And off you go on another rant.

    Duh, “science” has been hijacked by companies.  Drug companies, oil companies, food products companies, pesticide companies.  You pour a lot of money into something, and “science” will dutifully bless it.  That’s how it seems to me.  My comment was intended to be more general than just referring to your climate playpen.

    So given that “science” has been a bit of a whore these past few decades, uttering the formerly-magical phrase “science” impresses me less than it used to.  Kinda like the words “racist!!” or “hate speech!!”  Which I also notice you like to claim.

    So Gerry, I have to ask you something.  Why did you come here to the site?  It sure seems like you’re on a mission of some sort.

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  • Fri, Oct 11, 2019 - 12:14am

    Reply to #10
    efarmer.ny

    efarmer.ny

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 07 2012

    Posts: 12

    3+

    A Third Alias

    Oh pah-LEEEEZE! You have linked a video by Tony Heller of “SuspiciousObservers” channel,

    The guy in the video goes by “Ben Davidson” so I guess he has a third alias. As well as surgery, since he looks different that the guy I found on youtube that claimed to be Tony Heller.

    Regarding getting ideas about climate models from a “slimy lawyer” (Ben Davidson does claim to have an earned Juris Doctorate), I consider that to be akin to getting Economic Information from a (non-slimy) biologist whose name is well known here. Law training is similar to scientific training in that you have to parse out facts to build a case. (Obviously you are building on a legal framework instead of a scientific framework though.)

    Thank you for attacking my intellect rather that the idea that particles from the sun may affect our weather, because I actually do not want to turn the tide on this thread into a climate debate.

    So to get back on topic, I’ll add that I’m reading a book about Western vs Eastern cultures and one of the points they make is that especially in America we have this individualistic culture as opposed to the collectivie culture of the East. Someone who taught college level classes in Indonesia gave the example that going with a friend to an appointment was a “legal” excuse from school because in that culture no one would make a friend go alone.

    So I think part of the work in building a resilient community is understanding the individualistic cultural heritage many westerners have and being intentional about facing it.

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  • Fri, Oct 11, 2019 - 2:37am

    #16

    Michael_Rudmin

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 25 2014

    Posts: 874

    How does Frost play in

    I’m not quite sure how Robert Frost plays in. Please be a little more specific.

     

    That said…. “something there is” is inversion, is it not, and signifies importance of the preferred word.

    What, to your mind is the “something” of which Frost speaks?

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  • Fri, Oct 11, 2019 - 2:43am

    #17

    GerrySM

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 20 2017

    Posts: 31

    What a bunch of ....

    Things will cyclically go to one extreme (global cooling) and then to the opposite (global warming) but on the way from one to the other…

    This has nothing to do with the climate emergency humanity faces. Unless, like most paid deniers, it’s your way of saying we should ignore the heating?

    I mean, you get offended at literally everything.

    Nope, just things like science denial, racism and hate speech. The big issues. If these don’t upset you, perhaps you need to re-examine your intellectual position?

    The guy in the video goes by “Ben Davidson” so I guess he has a third alias.

    Yep, that’s the guy. Slimy denier

    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Suspicious0bservers

    particles from the sun may affect our weather

    Ho hum, more nonsense.

    Climate myths: It’s all down to cosmic rays

     

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  • Fri, Oct 11, 2019 - 2:45am

    #18

    Michael_Rudmin

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 25 2014

    Posts: 874

    1+

    E-farmer, global warming doesn't work like that.

    When you put a pot on the stove, the most immediate effect is a rise in temperature… but before long the effect is phase change. The temperature stays fairly constant; but the water goes from liquid to gas.

    When you have a complicated system like an eco-environment, the number of possible phase changes is huge.  Reduce the number of trees, and you lose rainfall. Reduce the number of insects, and you have a rise in the number of perfect-flowered plants, and a crash in plants that need insect pollination.

    So you’re thinking “is it global warming or cooling”, and you should instead be thinking, “are we at a stable point, or an unstable point?” If you are at an unstable point, then your climate may swing. If that’s so, you may be able to judge how it IS swinging, but you may not be able to judge how it is going to swing.

    So your preparations should already be in place for the weather and eco-environment that already was; and as you see changes, you should prepare for the future in case the changes got more extreme.

    And then don’t forget such things as locust swarms. Preparation there might be learning how to gather and preserve and eat them… if they are eating your crops.

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  • Fri, Oct 11, 2019 - 3:16am

    Reply to #17
    efarmer.ny

    efarmer.ny

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 07 2012

    Posts: 12

    Point Well Taken

    So your preparations should already be in place for the weather and eco-environment that already was; and as you see changes, you should prepare for the future in case the changes got more extreme.

    Actually, I’m experimenting with both sorghum (warming) and caterpillar tunnels (cooling), although I don’t like using plastic for tunnels. I’m trying to envision using scrap windows to build a more permanent structure but I’m not very handy as a carpenter.

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  • Fri, Oct 11, 2019 - 3:59am

    Reply to #9
    Belmontl

    Belmontl

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 23 2009

    Posts: 21

    Georgia

    greetings steve

     

    Also in Georgia – have like minded , conscious, friends with cabin in Elijay- PM – love to connect

     

    joe

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  • Fri, Oct 11, 2019 - 4:57am

    Reply to #17

    davefairtex

    Status Diamond Member (Offline)

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 3194

    4+

    blue church preacher

    GerrySM

    Meh.  I’m bored with all the preaching.  I leave the field to you.

    “We should do what China does.”

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  • Fri, Oct 11, 2019 - 5:36am

    Reply to #12

    travissidelinger

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Nov 17 2010

    Posts: 72

    3+

    Keeping things on the low

    YMMV,

    I totally agree. When SHTF homesteading on the low my be a requirement.

    Some ideas:

    Stop mowing the grass an extra year in advance
    Keep your compost or manure piles in the open
    Let the trees and bushes grow in
    Keep a dog that barks
    Hide any working vehicles, don’t use them.
    Don’t shoot guns or other things that make lots of noise
    Let the garden get overgrown, that’s actually healthier for it
    Keep your livestock out of sight from the road
    Don’t post pictures online
    Don’t share unnecessary info with your neighbors
    Leave junk laying around outside
    Stop using visible lights and or block up windows at night
    Put up a few simple signs that says “We will shoot”, “No begging, we are desperate too”
    Always spend a few minutes looking outside before you go outside.
    Provide visibility cover at your home exits
    Don’t start visible fires or leave a smoke trail
    Use decoys where you can, even a decoy house, and a decoy in your bed
    Don’t sleep where anyone would expect you to sleep

    The other option here is you have a functioning community. If you have a functioning community then a security team will be a must have. The security team will have to be large enough to deter all aggressors and steer away any refugees. I think turning away refugees will be the hard part. When the refugees leave they will talk to others about what they have seen. And many in the community will have a hard time turning away women and children. Thus, they will need turned away far from the community. In other words, you will need to control all roads into the community.

    Just some thoughts..

    -Travis

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  • Fri, Oct 11, 2019 - 6:31am

    #19
    MasterOfMyDomain

    MasterOfMyDomain

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 20 2011

    Posts: 10

    2+

    Gitin' hongry

    If we’re going to have a discussion regarding cannibalism, as Crapper suggests, I have some ethical stipulations–the principal being that I will only eat people who have been vegan for at least 18 months.

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  • Fri, Oct 11, 2019 - 3:04pm

    Reply to #17
    ao

    ao

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 04 2009

    Posts: 930

    9+

    critical theory contamination

    This has nothing to do with the climate emergency humanity faces. Unless, like most paid deniers, it’s your way of saying we should ignore the heating?

    Actually, I think the cyclical nature of things has a lot to do with what you describe as a “climate emergency” since the likelihood of this being a purely linear event is slim.  If the science is settled on this matter, what is the exact time frame for this emergency, what is the exact nature of the emergency, and precisely what has to be done in what period of time to mitigate this emergency?  I’d really like to know because I have been unable to find this information precisely and succinctly stated.  After all, in areas where the science is settled, one can provide precise numbers to quantitatively define the parameters of a situation.

    I just get the sense that a lot of people crying, “climate change” and “climate emergency” are running around like chickens with their heads cut off.  It’s not that they’re necessarily wrong but it’s the past flip-flopping from global cooling to global warming, the blanket ascription of ANY weather event of any consequence being blamed on climate change (as if there were never any adverse weather events prior to industrialization), the overly emotional religious fervor related to this issue, the intolerance of any questioning of any facet of this issue to any degree, the hatred and vitriol directed towards any who do question, the demand that we do SOMETHING (even though the unintended consequences of doing “something” are largely unknown at present), the hypocrisy of the elite with regards to this issue, the demands for large sums of the masses’ money related to this issue, the encouragement to restrict our civil rights related to this issue, etc., that cause me to pause and wonder, “Is there something going on here other than what the government, media, and the left, who’ve always been completely trustworthy and reliable in the past <sarcasm> claim?”.

    Nope, just things like science denial, racism and hate speech. The big issues. If these don’t upset you, perhaps you need to re-examine your intellectual position?

    DaveF is dead on right here.  Whether you realize it or not, you do seem to get offended at literally everything.  Let’s go down your list of stated “crimes”:

    Science denial

    Questioning does not equal denial but if questioning goes so far as to deny, so what?  As far as I know, science should always question.  New facts come to light and cause us to change our knowledge and understanding of a subject.  And often the change is 180 deg. in opposition to what we knew previously.  What is so horrible about people questioning this issue?  It doesn’t prevent those who are fervent believers from taking their own personal steps to mitigate the issue.  And if it comes to a point of voting on the issue, well that’s where the democratic process comes in (right or wrong).

    Racism

    This accusation has become so overused and has been weaponized to such a degree that virtually everyone can be accused of it except for the accusers who, according to them, are immune from being accused of such (which makes no sense at all to me).  How about ageism?  That is much more prevalent in the media and the common culture than racism?  Or prejudice against obese people?  But the charge of racism (and a number of related accusatory -isms) is now being leveled so frequently and to such extremes that it seems that the only way a white straight middle aged male can do proper penance is to give away all his earthly possessions as reparations and either castrate himself to avoid reproduction or commit suicide to remove himself from the planet.  The situation is just becoming ridiculous.  And truth be told, if the standards of racism are going to be raised that high, I doubt if anyone would be completely innocent of them.  It becomes akin to the Judeo-Christian concept of sin.  EVERYONE is guilty, including you.

    Hate speech

    Again, virtually anything voiced in disagreement has been transmuted into hate speech.  That’s certainly an effective way of shutting down any debate but it also makes no sense at all.  You know what bothers me more than (true) hate speech though?  Hate action!  It amazes me that those who often scream the loudest about hate speech have absolutely no problem with the hate action of killing the most vulnerable and innocent members of our society, the unborn babies.  Perfectly fine to pith an about to be born baby or physically tear it limb from limb or painfully poison it but don’t you dare say a nasty word to me.  It’s just insanity.

    Personally, I’m much more concerned with pollution (a specific, clearly definable, and eminently measurable phenomenon) as compared to the vague and all encompassing “climate change”.  Chemical pollution concerns me most with radioactive contamination right up there but electromagnetic radio frequency, light, and sound pollution concern me as well.

    I’m also personally concerned with bias of any group of people against any other group of people for any reason and unfair advantage given to any group of people, regardless of their color, race, ethnicity, religion, what have you.   True racism, to me, is a little too narrow when only being applied to white people against people of color (another vague, almost meaningless term).

    And I’m far more concerned about unaddressed hate actions (be it abortions or the genocide starting in South Africa) than I am about hate speech.  I rather like the First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America.  I may not like what you say but I will defend your right to say it.  As soon as someone wants to squelch that right, it’s the start of a slippery slope downward.

    Furthermore, your intimation of me being a paid denier is offensive in addition to being ludicrous.  Are you a paid confirmer?

     

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  • Fri, Oct 11, 2019 - 4:46pm

    Reply to #17

    Oliveoilguy

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 29 2012

    Posts: 535

    5+

    AO .....You are spot on

    I laugh every time a so-called educated person uses the word “denier”. People who are confident in their beliefs and put truth above all else will welcome scientific inquiry. Those who are uncertain of their positions will refuse to engage in dialogue.  To call someone a “denier” and refuse to allow them to state their position is nothing more than suppression of free speech and fear of change.

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  • Fri, Oct 11, 2019 - 5:46pm

    #20
    ao

    ao

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 04 2009

    Posts: 930

    2+

    a resilient woman

    I couldn’t help but notice that Jane Fonda was arrested today at a climate change protest in Washington, D.C.

    My sympathies to the climate change movement.  Having her on board won’t do wonders for their credibility, especially considering her checkered track record for getting things right.

    I will give Jane this though.  She is resilient.  Highly questionable father, mother who committed suicide when Jane was 12, victim of childhood sexual abuse, victim of rape, bulimia survivor, multiple total joints from beating the crap out of them with over-exercise, vilified for her stint as Hanoi Jane (and rightfully so in my book), marriages to 3 domineering and controlling (at best) husbands, etc., and yet she’s always bounced back.  Really quite incredible when you think of it.

    I heard her speak at an anti-Vietnam war rally at Rutgers University when I was around 18.  I was quite naive back then but even at that age, I easily recognized that she was not the brightest bulb in the box.  Passionate, yes, but very easily influenced and controlled.  Her choice in lovers/husbands was evidence of that.

    The equation I use to understand Jane is: Passion – Discernment = Uh, oh

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  • Sat, Oct 12, 2019 - 7:50am

    #21
    phoenixl

    phoenixl

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    Posts: 9

    2+

    Choosing resilient locations also means understanding Prior Appropriation and Riparian Water Rights

    Getting back to central ideas in this post, your access to enough water also depends on the state water laws. Riparian states tend toward more similarity and less strictures on your access of groundwater or surface water, but Prior Appropriation states can vary between them but generally have very significant roadblocks to how much groundwater you can pump and hugely significant roadblocks to accessing surface water, digging your own pond, or any other kind of landscaping that captures and holds/slows water for you. Hybrid states which use a bit of both water laws are even more complex. So whatever area looks good to you on the surface, you still have to check (if in a Prior Appropriation or Hybrid state) how much and what kind of water the state will allow you to use. Water use in these states is highly measured and monitored, so totally unlike eastern Riparian states. Just a heads-up.

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  • Sat, Oct 12, 2019 - 8:15am

    #22
    TLWA1879

    TLWA1879

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    Posts: 3

    1+

    I guess its appropriate to slow down and debate climate science some more then...

    …why jump right into taking costly action when we don’t know precisely how climate change will impact the planet or the lives of our children?  We don’t know precisely the time frame or the exact nature of a supposed climate emergency.  And, we don’t know what needs to be done, precisely, to mitigate these things.  We have plenty of time to debate these things for a while longer before taking action.  Its not an emergency in the US yet.  All we know is that greenhouse gases from burning fossil fuels and from conventional agriculture are heating the planet and setting records each year, but its not too hot yet.  We know ice sheets and glaciers are melting at unprecedented rates, but they’re not gone yet.  And, it is possible this supposed “science” is just being fed to us to scare us into agreeing to more government control.  I’m not falling for that old trick.  NASA and NOAA could just be facilitating that bad science.  If you go to the NASA website on climate change there’s all kinds of statements to be suspicious of.  Just take a look (https://climate.nasa.gov/)…very suspicious, and even if true, it doesn’t provide anything compelling that tells us to take action, right?  Very bland information.  Its almost as if someone demanded that nothing useful should be posted there.  WE NEED MORE PROOF!  My apologies for all the sarcasm, I understand its a poor technique, but did it anyway…sorry.

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  • Sat, Oct 12, 2019 - 9:20am

    Reply to #14
    CrisisMode

    CrisisMode

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Dec 21 2011

    Posts: 29

    1+

    off-grid short range comms system

    @DaveFairtex

    Thanks for posting that link. This appears at first glance to be a very interesting piece of technology, which would allow the uninitiated among us to access another communications option.

     

     

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  • Sat, Oct 12, 2019 - 9:43am

    #23

    KugsCheese

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 01 2010

    Posts: 844

    Blog Post Oct 9th But Comments From September?

    Just wondering how some comments are marked as being created in September when this Blog Post was created October 9th.

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  • Sat, Oct 12, 2019 - 11:22am

    #24

    Chris Martenson

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 07 2007

    Posts: 4733

    1+

    The Need for Resilience

    Whether it’s man-made, as in the cast of California’s PGE shutting down all power to some communities for days on end, or it’s brought by nature, the case for resilience continues to stack up.

    Here’s some wildly compelling video of the massive typhoon hitting Tokyo:

    https://twitter.com/AssaadRazzouk/status/1182983734682931200

    Trucks being tipped over, even when not moving, pieces of buildings coming off, and some of the most massive waves hitting shore that I’ve ever seen.

    Typhoon Hagibis set records for intensification, and just narrowly missed out on setting the record for the highest sustained winds – ever – as far as I know.

    It will be the first typhoon categorized as “very strong” to make landfall on the main island of Japan.

    Lots of firsts and records being set these days…

     

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  • Sat, Oct 12, 2019 - 1:17pm

    Reply to #24
    timot78

    timot78

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    This is compilation of 2018 and probably 2019 (don't know) events

    Chris,

    The video compilation from your link  is NOT only from Tokyo (if any) but also from 2018 typhoon events.  Examples: ~ 0.36 this is Osaka harbor (I vividly remember this footage , since I was there about 2 months before the typhoon hit).  Also ~1:30 into video the footage depicts the Kyoto train station (from 2018).   So the drama is high , but a lot of footage (I assume) comes from 2018 July(? ) events around Osaka.   I guess this is to enhance drama effect – but it’s totally redundant and misleading if the claim is made that these are Tokyo typhoon 2019 events ONLY.

    -Peter

     

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  • Sun, Oct 13, 2019 - 3:40pm

    #25

    GerrySM

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 20 2017

    Posts: 31

    Chris, some attention needed to the people posting here

    Chris, many sites have been targeted by public relation companies that work for a wide range of people with vested interests in the continued use of fossil fuels: oil, gas and coal miners, energy utilities, even car companies. They pay the PR companies to make thousands of posts at sites that reflect community thinking on topics connected in any way to climate or fossil fuels …. which puts your site solidly in the focus.

    Some of the comments above, I believe, reflect this. It may serve you well to police the comments much more carefully and be far less tolerant of people who are essentially saying the equivalent of “the Earth is flat” or “evolution did not happen”. Either do that, or your site will lack credibility and drive away intelligent, genuine readers.

    “Dark Money” Funds Climate Change Denial Effort

    To learn more about the organized science denial campaign — what it is and who is behind it — google the following articles:

    Secretive donors gave US climate denial groups $125m over three years

    Paid Commenters Hired By Fox News To Spread Right Wing Talking Points Across The Net

    Climate Deniers Taking a Page Out of Big Tobacco Playbook

    Billion-dollar climate denial network exposed

    Astroturfing the climate wars: five ways to spot a troll

    Astroturfing works, and it’s a major challenge to climate change

    ASTROTURFING, WHAT IS IT AND WHY IT MATTERS

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  • Sun, Oct 13, 2019 - 4:03pm

    Reply to #25
    CrisisMode

    CrisisMode

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    Posts: 29

    5+

    Policing comments . . . ???

    “It may serve you well to police the comments much more carefully”

     

    We have ENOUGH police in our society today,

    thank you very much.

    We DO NOT need more policing just to suit your inclinations.

    If you don’t like the kind of responses here,

    I’d suggest you take yourself elsewhere.

    Bye-bye.

     

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  • Sun, Oct 13, 2019 - 5:16pm

    Reply to #24

    Mots

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 18 2012

    Posts: 83

    3+

    "Lots of firsts and records being set these days…"

    Regarding video/news of the recent extreme weather outlier that hit Tokyo this weekend, a good/accurate link to that information is japantimes.co.jp (click on the Typhoon news on upper left side of page)

    That typhoon is a complete outlier and represents the initial phase of the “new normal” (I wonder what more extreme events will be “normal” after more ocean warming that is already baked into the cake).  Extreme Tokyo rainfall records were set this weekend.  That typhoon is noteworthy as being similar to if a big category 5 typhoon completely avoided Florida/Carolinas, entered (and weakened in) the cooler waters off New England and then slammed head on into NY City.  This comes one and a half years after another storm of the millennia (never before recorded rainfall in Japanese history) hit my area as a mere normal rainstorm (not even a typhoon) dropped so much rain in one day that the shore lines were completely redone (landslides everywhere) and no public water for weeks afterwards.  And the separate typhoon that hit Osaka (with those videos of a ship taking out the bridge to the airport) happened a few weeks AFTER our simple storm of the millennia last year and before Tokyo’s typhoon of the century this weekend.  I can see how someone making a video can get these all mixed up.  These “extreme” things are happening at least once per year over here. ……   Welcome to the new weather games, may the odds be ever in your favor!

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  • Sun, Oct 13, 2019 - 5:28pm

    Reply to #25

    davefairtex

    Status Diamond Member (Offline)

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 3194

    5+

    your mission

    GerrySM-

    I’m going to go out on a limb here, but it kinda feels like you really know your stuff when it comes to astroturfing.  I mean, if I didn’t know better, I’d think you were coming to the site with the goal of policing it for us – making sure all the “hate speechers”, “racists”, and “climate deniers” were driven away.

    Astroturfing the climate wars: five ways to spot a troll

    Astroturfing works, and it’s a major challenge to climate change

    ASTROTURFING, WHAT IS IT AND WHY IT MATTERS

    I notice further than “real” participants here at the site tend to have a broad range of things they are interested in.  Paid (or even “volunteer”) trolls, on the other hand, tend to focus on one thing only.

    Sound familar?

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  • Sun, Oct 13, 2019 - 6:08pm

    #26

    thc0655

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 27 2010

    Posts: 1514

    4+

    I’m not a denier, just an agnostic

    Lets keep the debate alive:

    https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/climate/the-climate-change-fraud-by-marxists-became-communism-collapsed/

    And I am highly allergic to being bullied, whether by thugs on the street, the occasional  global warming fanatics, governments that would compel me with the threat of violence to pay for their pet climate projects, and sneaky globalists who might like to use fear of global warming to set themselves up as the ultimate elite in a one-world government, economy and monetary system.

    I am stubbornly agnostic about the science, and efforts to shame me or control my mind from either side cause me to dig in my heels even more. This shows in my lifestyle choices in which I am trying to be prepared for catastrophic global warming AND for the fluctuations in weather that might come in a future without catastrophic man-made global warming.

    My problem with the IPCC and those who preach catastrophic man-made global warming are the political solutions they all seem to gravitate toward: dramatic increases in centralized government control of economies, business, and the minute details of the average person’s daily lives all over the world. The usually hidden assumption behind these “solutions” is people will not voluntarily do enough of what the high priests of global warming insist MUST be done to save the world so that the people have to be forced by an immensely powerful government (most likely global) to do what they are told. The sacrifices and wholesale death that would accompany these “solutions” is almost always glossed over.

    I’m most interested in hearing from the advocates of the man-made global warming theory not more of the science but more explicit discussion about the “solutions” you believe are essential to save the world and humanity from itself.

    1. Do you expect that people around the world will ever voluntarily do what must be done to save the world from man-made global warming? Will they do it voluntarily in time to make a difference?

    2. If you answered “no” to the above, what is your solution to people not voluntarily in large enough numbers, fast enough doing what must be done? Do you believe government should incentivize and/or force people to change? What would that look like? Would non-violent incentives be enough or will force/threat of force ultimately be required?

    3. If you believe people won’t voluntarily act fast enough and coercive government control (backed up by violence) must be used, what form of government would most effectively accomplish the saving of the Earth? I ask because if the people won’t voluntarily change enough to save the Earth, giving those same people the power to vote against policies and politicians that would FORCE them to comply with the proper policies does not seem like a logical idea. If they won’t voluntarily do the right things, then why let them vote against the right things? So, what kind of government structure do you think WOULD work? Would today’s national governments be up to the tasks, or would a global government be required? It seems to me there would be huge resistance in the population to the draconian measures necessary to save the Earth. If so, how much violence perpetrated by government against resisters do you believe would be justified in saving the Earth?

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  • Sun, Oct 13, 2019 - 10:02pm

    #27

    GerrySM

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 20 2017

    Posts: 31

    Martin Armstrong!

    Lets keep the debate alive:

    https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/climate/the-climate-change-fraud-by-marxists-became-communism-collapsed/

    Why on Earth would anyone quote Mr Armstrong on anything at all? The man is a master conman. As wikipedia says of him:

    Martin Armstrong spent 11 years in jail for cheating investors out of $700 million and hiding $15 million in assets from regulators.

    So anyone with an ounce of common sense would run a million miles before taking this man’s word on any topic, and most especially a complex scientific topic (Armstrong has no tertiary education, in addition to his criminality).

    All these ideas of “global government” and “high priests of global warming” etc are manufactured memes designed to appeal to conspiracy-minded Libertarians, and you’ve fallen for it hook, line and sinker.

    I read the Libertardian blogosphere with all it’s guff about “They ain’t gonna take away mah freedumbs!” and think: “The plot thickens. 99% of scientists contrive an environmental crisis but are exposed by a plucky band of billionaires and oil companies.” Too funny, or perhaps too sad.

     

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  • Sun, Oct 13, 2019 - 10:12pm

    #28

    GerrySM

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 20 2017

    Posts: 31

    My varied interests

    I notice further than “real” participants here at the site tend to have a broad range of things they are interested in. Paid (or even “volunteer”) trolls, on the other hand, tend to focus on one thing only.

    Try me out on any topic you wish, Dave. I’ve been around since the early days of theoilddrum.com as I told you. I run several websites. I’m retired, over 60, with children in the legal and medical professions. I have hundreds of books on homesteading and self-sufficiency. I live on a self-sufficient acreage and grow a lot of what I eat. I’m solar powered and about to buy an EV. Have at me, ask away.

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