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    The Coronavirus Pandemic Is A Crisis Now Obvious To All

    Governments & mass media finally admitting "it's serious"
    by Adam Taggart

    Tuesday, February 25, 2020, 6:30 PM

As 19th century German philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer claimed, “All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as self-evident.”

After weeks of denial, and attacks on voices like Peak Prosperity who dared question the “Everything is fine!” narrative, world governments and their mass media partners are finally admitting that the coronavirus threat is real and serious.

The pandemic continues to spread across the globe, interestingly, largely in the northern hemisphere at this time. This may suggest it could migrate south as fall/winter arrives there, possibly returning northwards when the seasons change again. Time will tell.

Meanwhile, the markets continue their sell-off as the economic damage from the impairment of Asian supply chains become more apparent.

How much further can they fall? A LOT if the virus continues to rage on for months.

As this crisis is now becoming more obvious to all, remember that your best time to prepare is BEFORE the panicked herd stampedes.

Take the time you have now to keep plugging away at your preparations, so that you’re secure and positioned to help should covid-19 hit your community.

Be sure you’re up-to-date on developments with the coronavirus. All of our latest covid-19 video updates, podcasts and articles can be accessed here for free.

And here’s our material on Chris’ and my own preparation efforts that we’ve published for our premium subscribers (free executive summary, enrollment required for full access)

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125 Comments

  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 6:42pm

    #1

    dtrammel

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 698

    6+

    Some Peak Prosperity Resources For Those New Here

    Welcome the Peak Prosperity those of you who just found this great site.

    Like Chris said, his first alert, just over a month ago caused many of us, who have been following and learn from this site, sometimes for years to sit up and notice.

    Since then Chris, Adam and the community of diverse members have been discussing this virus, its affects and its characteristics to try and get a handle on how we should prepare. Because of this, we have some great resources to help you get prepared.

    Start with this post:

    An ER Doc’s Summary –Written for His Family

    It will give you a quick introduction to the virus.

    Next you are going to want to prepare and buy some supplies. You may be forced by personal decision or perhaps even government edict to self quarantine. Can you live in your home for 14 days without having to leave for food or other needed items? If not, then you need to go out and buy what you need NOW.

    As Chris said in this video, time to prepare is running out.

    This post offers some very good ideas on what you might need and areas you may have forgotten:

    Preparations By Category – Revised 2/14

    Not everyone will realize how critical it is to prepare, and so when it does dawn on them, the seriousness of the crisis, and find empty shelves at grocery stores they will get desperate. They may remember then how they saw you, unloading bags of groceries and supplies then decide to come knocking on your door.

    It is not selfish to want to protect your family, friends and loved ones.

    If you decide to stock up and prepare with purchases of supplies and groceries, do so wisely and with a little bit of discretion. This post explains how to do that:

    Protective Camouflage Is Now Needed – Getting Serious!

    Now this is a good post on what to do if you do get ill. Chris found it on reddit and its a great list:

    Nursing 101: Caring for your loved ones at home

    Along with that gem, there are many other comments filled with information.

    Its hard to go through each of the almost daily video threads here and find what you need to know so we have put together a megathread, one where all the comments about basic subjects are listed so you can find them.

    Here are the three current threads:

    Coronavirus: Home Prep, Deep Pantry & Gardening Megathread

    Coronavirus: Medicinals, Herbals and Supplements Megathread

    Coronavirus: Sanitation, PPE and Self Quarantine Megathread

    (These threads are current to 2/14, they will be updated further later in the week.)

    Lots of amazing information in those threads. If you are searching for something specific, use your browser’s “Find” option.

    If what you are looking for is not covered in those comments, then please POST A QUESTION to any video thread. The community has a diverse and knowledgeable depth you won’t find anywhere else on the Internet, and they are here to help.

    Best of luck, stay safe.

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 6:48pm

    #2
    davez

    davez

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 14 2020

    Posts: 8

    2+

    https://youtu.be/bQzbXStTEpw

    This video describes how to update a custom COVID-19 spreadsheet, so you can monitor coronavirus data and customize it. Included are three charts for site-specific data:
    – Confirmed Cases/Deaths (% confirmed) vs. Date
    – Recovered vs. Deaths (% confirmed) vs. Date
    – Active Cases/Deaths (% confirmed) vs. Date

    Copy spreadsheet here:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FXVgNrTbECcO8X4-hFXhJuqgE5sl-7ddU-IO2ciXCdU/edit#gid=275720644

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 7:21pm

    Reply to #2
    timot78

    timot78

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 18 2010

    Posts: 29

    1+

    Do you have demographics of the confirmed cases in Italy?

    According to Wikipedia, Milan is a home to ~ 13,000 Chinese who, probably, returned from Lunar New Year at the end of January to Northern Italy.  Milan, Bologna, Venice and Turin combined are a temporary home to about 28,000 Chinese  ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_people_in_Italy ).  It would be interesting to compare major hubs on Silk Road – heavily populated by Chinese  (  http://nepalforeignaffairs.com/chinas-stakes-in-nepal-seem-to-have-been-accepted-by-india-as-unstoppable-reality/   ) – with centers of local epidemics (e.g. Tehran, Athens?, Venice, Milan, Duisburg?, Rotterdam?, Istanbul?, Nairobi?, Kuala Lumpur?, Jakarta?, India East Coast?).

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 8:00pm

    Reply to #2
    quahogs

    quahogs

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 21 2020

    Posts: 4

    I too would like to know the ethnic backgrounds of the deceased in Italy.

    Any populations with natural genetic resistance to Covid-19?

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 8:04pm

    #3
    Bleep

    Bleep

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 07 2017

    Posts: 43

    Selenium in US vs China - an important marker?

    Look at the difference between blood levels of selenium in the U.S. and China.  Could this be a factor in differences in outbreaks there and here?

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0946672X19301439

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 8:06pm

    #4
    Geedard

    Geedard

    Status: Member

    Joined: Oct 13 2014

    Posts: 63

    1+

    Insight into IRAN - confirmed under-reporting and high risk

    **Re-posting this comment here as it provides insight into situation in IRAN**

    BBC Persia correspondent confirms under-reporting in Iran due to a simple lack of reporting structure. She also speaks about the potential contagion risk in Qom from millions of religious visitors – OOOPS!! Also, anecdotal evidence from a local parliamentarian in Qom, who claims to have given the names of 40 dead to Iran’s Deputy Health Minister. The video link below should start at time 06:13 (video is 13:13 long)…

    https://youtu.be/UcxHL8LHI_A?t=373

     

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 8:08pm

    #5
    Geedard

    Geedard

    Status: Member

    Joined: Oct 13 2014

    Posts: 63

    1+

    IRAN - more concerning anecdotal info

    **Re-posting this comment here as it provides insight into situation in IRAN**

    The same BBC Persia correspondent filed another report (see video below beginning at time 3:13 in this 8:36 long video). She describes the situation in Iran, along with local anecdotes, severely stretched resources (stemming in part from economic sanctions), also unrestricted movement within the country, particularly between large population centres and religious locations… Finally she reports (anecdotally) a 20% death rate and mounting fear… All rather concerning to say the least, particularly the high contagion risk.

    https://youtu.be/CXqrvTGHuvg?t=203

     

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 8:16pm

    #6
    aggrivated

    aggrivated

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Sep 22 2010

    Posts: 468

    4+

    NEWS Flash: Just to help us be a little more understanding of what is going on with the CDC and US Dept of Heath and HS

     

     

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 8:29pm

    #7
    Tom Sammy

    Tom Sammy

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 30 2020

    Posts: 128

    2+

    US Senators confidential briefing on Coronavirus

    US Senators were briefed Tuesday on Coronavirus in a classified session.  Here is what one senator had to say afterwards.  This is not encouraging, would be nice to know exactly what was communicated!

    https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4856911/senator-blumenthal-calls-administrations-coronavirus-response-disastrously-inadequate

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 8:44pm

    Reply to #7
    Pipoe

    Pipoe

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 20 2020

    Posts: 2

    1+

    senator statement

    Agree that the Senator’s statements were not encouraging. Thanks Tom Sammy for sharing this information.

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 8:58pm

    #8
    ivah

    ivah

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 25 2020

    Posts: 9

    More on Italian unstoppable outbreak

    MORE ON ITALIAN DEVELOPMENT

    I sincerely don’t think that Italians will be able to contain the virus. All they have done till now were just large errors. They never stopped traffic from China, now they let Italians travel all over Europe and spread the virus. It’s just a flu, according to them. While spreading false information:

    The masks “are of no use to the healthy but only to the sick and health workers”, says Ricciardi. The official guidelines on what protective devices are, who should wear them and how and what is being done to supply people and operators in red areas.

    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.corriere.it%2Fsalute%2Fmalattie_infettive%2F20_febbraio_25%2Fcoronavirus-punto-mascherine-chi-servono-quali-sono-come-indossarle-57e03d7e-57c3-11ea-a2d7-f1bec9902bd3.shtml

    And while Jackal thieves take advantage of fear of Coronavirus to target the elderly

    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.oglioponews.it%2F2020%2F02%2F24%2Fvenuti-tampone-ladri-sciacalli-approfittano-della-paura-coronavirus-colpire-gli-anziani%2F&sandbox=1

     

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 9:10pm

    Reply to #7
    VeganDB12

    VeganDB12

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 18 2008

    Posts: 186

    senator statement

    Audio very low but worth watching. The senator seems outraged and helpless at the same time. The senator states the information should be made public and that there would be an outcry if it were. I am somehow feeling abandoned.  Why aren’t the folks in charge more worried about their own family and friends?  And themselves? Thank you for the video.

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 9:15pm

    #9
    Mary Critchley

    Mary Critchley

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jun 22 2014

    Posts: 9

    What a UK professor of clinical virology told me re Italy

    I have known and respected this very clever man, who is also a doctor of medicine,  for nearly 20 years.  His laboratory works with analysing medical samples and assays.  If what he says is true, this may account for why they can’t find patient zero.  There isn’t one.  He is no conspiracy fan, by the way…he said he doesn’t believe in the bioweapon idea and does credit the bat virus theory for China.  Italy is something else.  If what he says is right, it sounds as though this virus sample was far from inactivated and had mutated.)

     “The infection in Italy was almost certainly intentionally let out by a firm who acquired the virus and grew it up and are selling it apparently inactivated for assay development. (they did the same in Germany but have not released it)”

    I have his whole email, Chris, if you’d like to see it, but obviously don’t want to give his name and credentials here.

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 10:26pm

    Reply to #9
    Alexis

    Alexis

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 26 2020

    Posts: 66

    Interesting

    – very interesting info from the doctor… my question is why is confident that it’s “apparently inactivated,” I would think an inactivsted virus would have less virulent potential but I’m no expert obviously, just know that from the “live” vaccines we have.

    – loves the selenium study! Good find!

    – uae cases… does anyone remember at the start of this in January, maybe late January there were 2 suspect cases in UAE that later I thought they said was something diff? I’m wondering if there is a more virulent strain in Iran or if it’s a product Of the general health/ nutrition of the people? Chronic stress does a whammy on the immune system. :/

     

    – is anywhere here from Bahrain/ Saudi Arabia area? Trying to get info for my sister. She’s in Bahrain, expat living in SA since oil and gas fall out in USA several years ago. They had to leave SA for their expat status and now stuck in Bahrain for several more days. I’m worried they are going to get stuck in B or quarantined on the way back in to SA. My hoping it’s not as bad as it looks. 🙁 Im concerned for her, daughter and husband. Talk about feeling helpless!

    – another note, that senators briefing was unnerving!!! I’m very concerned that they know way more than telling us. I told my husband tonight that their has been a lot of activity and change since the Dr. Aylaward just got back from a China. Link below, several times in the video he said “they are at war with a virus,” that stood out to me. :/  To me, the CDC press conference was a GENTLE nudge of what is  to come. Her description of what she “told her family” is what everyone needs to understand

    https://youtu.be/-o0q1XMRKYM

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 10:27pm

    #10
    10minuteTrainingYouTube

    10minuteTrainingYouTube

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2020

    Posts: 1

    How to prepare for the Covid19 Outbreak

    Howdy y’all! I just made my first YouTube video on Preparing for the Covid19 Outbreak. I’d sure appreciate if y’all can head over there and give me some feedback on it, and possibly some likes and subscribes. I watch Peak Prosperity’s tracking of the Virus daily, wjich inspired me to provide some help to the average Joe on the street on how to prepare.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEJngPsUaks

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 10:32pm

    #11
    Nairobi

    Nairobi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 05 2020

    Posts: 289

    Victims of Wuhan Virus had amassed mucous in lungs

    Thanks for that video Chris. I was reading the headline on your Taiwan News clipping and noticed it said that Wuhan virus victims (assume they mean people who perished) had amassed mucous in their lungs.

    So I thought I would post on this again because it has become evident to me that our chances of survival diminish greatly at that key juncture when viral pneumonia turns infectious and becomes deep lung bacterial pneumonia.

    This is after all a respiratory illness. I believe however that it can be beaten if we understand the mechanics of what’s taking place inside our bodies.

    And I say that as a person who believes many of us may end up self-treating at home given that hospitals beds may be unavailable.

    The word “amassed” in the Taiwan newspaper just informs us that the sufferer ended up drowning in their own lung fluids. There isn’t really any other way to put it.

    The other day I mentioned that an effective treatment to assist clearing lungs of mucous is to consume more water but of course there are also medications that can assist.

    The important thing to my mind is sitting up and coughing that damned infection out. We will breathe better while eliminating an infection source.

    This is no time to be polite either so holding back the bodies natural urge to purge itself of fluid buildup must be done to avoid the risk of excessive fluids building up in our lungs. So find a nice private room and hork it out!

    I found a nice chart describing mucous by color types that others may find interesting. If anyone has good ideas about how to reduce the risk of pneumonia or minimize its impacts I would like to hear about it.

    The battle against this illness starts with not getting it in the first place but once its arrived we need strategies to correct the imbalances created by our lungs reaction to a combination of viral and bacterial infections.

    So let’s get that inflammation under control.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-6303513/What-does-colour-phlegm-mean-cold-pneumonia-lung-cancer.html

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 11:19pm

    #12
    Nairobi

    Nairobi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 05 2020

    Posts: 289

    The truth is very close to being told

    “This briefing, which was classified, should be made available to the American people because there would be an outcry and an uproar if the American people heard what we have been told. And I believe the administration has a real obligation to tell the American people what it is telling us behind closed doors….I can give you my impressions but I can’t tell you what I was told which is really abhorant…I think this classifying is inexplicable and unacceptable”.

    Senator Blumenthal

    ___________________

    Holy shiitt!! This is WORSE than we thought. If anyone is not already taking preventative measures to avoid the virus (handwashing, avoiding touching public surfaces like restaurant door handles etc) then the time to start was yesterday. Its already here. We are just in the eye of the storm due to the long incubation period during which time there is no cases. Just nothing, nothing, nothing…

    Then directly into a crisis.

    I will bet what the Senator learned was that death rates are in the 15% range which most here have known all along. But that is not the real problem or the message we can take away from his comments on the closed door meeting.

    The Senator used the word “abhorant” to describe what he learned. It means repugnant, disgusting or loathsome and that word is a descriptor that would not ordinarily be applied to a disease or its symptoms but rather to the behavior of people.

    That in itself is alarming. We have already heard or read horror stories from Wuhan that some people here believe are simply sensationalized propaganda or simply not true.

    Well what if they are true?

    In Nazi Germany before the Second World War even began, there were stories of German people being killed. Prisons were emptied, old age homes saw all their residents exterminated. The sick, the old, the infirm and criminals were ruthlessly killed as some kind of social cleansing. You all know the rest. And nobody believed it until the war was over and the truth finally came out.

    Sorry to say, but history repeats. Even if the snowflakes can’t handle hearing about it. I think something very evil is happening over there and it will not be pardonable.

     

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 12:32am

    #13
    pforth

    pforth

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2020

    Posts: 3

    Brazil lied about their first case being today...

    I contract work to a team of software developers who live in a small town in Brazil called Bauru.  They told me 2 weeks ago that there was someone who had tested positive for Corona virus in their local hospital and that the government was suppressing the information.  Today Brazil finally announced it.  Why today?  Because today was Brazil’s biggest party of the year: Carnival.  They waited until it was too late for people not to go until they released the information!

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 1:05am

    #14
    yagasjai

    yagasjai

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 18 2009

    Posts: 83

    Could You Test Positive in the US for Flu Strain A and also Have Covid-19?

    I’m not sure if this is a stupid question but I am going to throw it out there because it’s been in the back of my mind and this video is prompting me to ask. On January 21st I became really sick. I had three bad rounds of diarrhea and I was developing a cough. didn’t think to check my temperature the first day, but the second day I checked it with several thermometers (note to self: test all household thermometers to see what they say my baseline is) which ranged from 101 to 105. I didn’t have much congestion or sore throat. But I had gurgling in my lungs which is what prompted me to go to the doctor. It reminded me of how it felt a previous time I had pneumonia.

    So they did a test for the flu, which came back positive for strain A and listening to my lungs, sure enough, she said that the bottom right lobe was constricted. They prescribed antibiotics and I have been recovering from the pneumonia for the last month, this week is really the first week things seem mostly back to normal.

    Obviously at that point no one was thinking about or testing for Covid-19. And the person I live with took theraflu and did not catch it, so in terms of contagion, it seems unlikely it was Covid-19. But the diarrhea, high fever, and lower lung pneumonia line up with the diagnostic criteria outlined in this video, so I can’t help but wonder if I already had a mild case of it? Is it possible for someone to test positive for flu strain A and also have Covid-19? It’s a concern because of the issue about it being a lot worse the second time. Even if it’s not the case for me, it seems likely that would be the case for many others, who are being told that it’s the flu and/or pneumonia, and then are being sent home. That’s an incredibly huge disservice to anyone in that situation, because of what Chris said about being extra sure not to get it the second time.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 2:08am

    #15

    Ivo

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 26 2009

    Posts: 24

    Dutch National Health Institute in denial

    There is a new case in Germany, a man who has visited the Netherlands recently. Unbelievably, the Dutch national health institute, RIVM, states that since he was asymptotic at the time, het wasn’t infectious. OMG.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 4:03am

    #16
    Dutch Boomer

    Dutch Boomer

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2020

    Posts: 69

    Holland

    The German guy lives about 4 miles from my home. Last week he stayd at an hotel about 15 miles from my home. At this moment he is in critical state in a German hospital.

    Since he was not infected last week our CDC announced that they will not trace his steps/contacts because he was not ill last week so it was impossible to spread the desease.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 4:05am

    #17
    Dutch Boomer

    Dutch Boomer

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2020

    Posts: 69

    Dutch CDC (RIVM)

    Official statement (in Dutch)

    RIVM: kans op besmetting door Duitser nihil

    Het RIVM zegt dat er geen contactonderzoek komt, naar aanleiding van de besmette man in het Duitse grensgebied.

    Volgens het instituut is dat niet nodig omdat de Duitser, toen hij in Limburg was geen ziekteverschijnselen vertoonde

    Google Translation

    RIVM: chance of infection by German nil

    The RIVM says there will be no contact investigation, following the infected man in the German border area.

    According to the institute, this is not necessary because the German, when he was in Limburg, did not show any symptoms of illness:

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 4:16am

    Reply to #14

    dtrammel

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 698

    Good Question yagasjai

    I had the same question, and I’m betting you could be both infected with influenza and covid. That would make for a poor time of it if it were bad cases.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 4:21am

    #18

    dtrammel

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 698

    ex-DP passengers now show signs

    I really thought letting them off the ship and not quarantining them for an additional time was unwise. Seems Chris called it, this virus has the long period of being asymptomatic in some people

    Dozens allowed off coronavirus-hit Diamond Princess cruise ship in Japan now showing “symptoms”

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 5:29am

    #19
    Penguin Will

    Penguin Will

    Status: Member

    Joined: Aug 20 2019

    Posts: 23

    Although we can certainly find numerous instances where various and assorted governments and their entities dropped the ball, I have to say that I don’t think it would have made the slightest difference as to whether this thing was going global or not. All we are doing is playing for time to come up with vaccines and whatnot to deal with this thing.

    It looks like you can catch it by looking crossways at somebody. And I have to say we still don’t know what the fatality rate is or what the long term health impacts are for those that survive. Not knowing is scary. And maybe knowing would be scarier still.

    Living in the country makes me feel better about avoiding it… but I’m a college professor. Tell me how I’m supposed to elude this thing if it starts proliferating stateside. Pray for warm weather to come soon I suppose?

    Will

     

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 5:30am

    #20
    brushhog

    brushhog

    Status: Member

    Joined: Oct 06 2015

    Posts: 72

    Governments are not to blame, neither can they provide protection

    I hear alot of blame being thrown around at China and even at the US for under-reporting the severity and risk of this disease. I think it stems from a massive over-estimation of the ability of governments [ and humanity in general ] to manage everything under the sun. #1 The government[s] doesnt know everything. They get limited information from various sources and they don’t know whats fact and what isnt. They also don’t know too much about this disease or what to do about it. And #2 Their primary concern is not to cause panic. Public panic is a greater threat than the disease itself. The economy could crash, which is not only about money but about the ability to maintain hospitals, the supply chain of medicine etc. They dont want people to panic and run out to clear the shelves which will lead to some people having all they need and others starving. Lets not even talk about violence in the streets and the other obvious issues.
    So, #1, they dont know. And #2, even what do they know they have a responsibility to hide to avoid panic….and its very reasonable that they would.

    So with those things in mind we can conclude that the government cant do anything about this and we shouldnt look to the government for solutions, and we should view all information coming out of the official channels through that lens. All they can really do is quarantine, which we know doesnt even really work too well. This is a natural phenomenon, there is NOTHING that they can do about it. They are just going to try to make it seem that they are doing something to calm the public and maintain faith in government. Thats all they are focused on, calming the public and saving the institutions….NOT you and your family. That is going to be 100% up to you.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 5:47am

    Reply to #20
    BillL

    BillL

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 15 2020

    Posts: 115

    The only thing the gub is going to do is exert more force on us.  More regulation, more laws, more taxes, more censorship, less freedom, firearms confiscation.

    They get their orders from the moneychangers.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 5:53am

    Reply to #19
    VeganDB12

    VeganDB12

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 18 2008

    Posts: 186

    containment measures still work and governments are avoiding it

    Penguin Will

    I totally agree we must learn to care for ourselves in this situation. No question, there is simply insufficient capacity in the system to handle all of the cases that may arise. And there is no stopping the virus but slowing it down allows us time to work on treatments for it.

    I am providing links to a non-peer reviewed paper and a video from Dr Campbell (a UK doc who has been very enlightened throughout this process as well) showing that some outbreaks have had a much shorter time to illness and serious complications. Without getting technical, containment (quarantine and social distancing in general) can have a much bigger impact in this situation.  I have a lot of difficulty accepting the passivity of our leaders and the refusal to test seriously ill people. Not only is it cruel but it can create the fear they are trying to avoid. And it can lead to more infections. Still and all you are right we are obviously on our own.  I hope and pray Senator Blumethal and others can find a way to get the truth out.  Bless him for sticking his neck out.  Secrets like this, as Nairobi seems to imply, often cannot remain secret for long….

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.02.07.20021154v1.full.pdf

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnE9O-vV-ws

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 5:55am

    #21
    BillL

    BillL

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 15 2020

    Posts: 115

    Over 2 hrs. long...

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2020-02-25/david-collum-coronvirus-big-one

    I’m only about 20 mins. in so I can’t give any particulars.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 5:56am

    #22
    Sabemenos

    Sabemenos

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 30 2020

    Posts: 21

    CDC’s motives under attack for frank warning

    Zero hedge is reporting that since Dr Messonnier is the sister of Rod Rosenstine, she might be anti-Trump and that this  casts doubt on the CDC’s Covid19 warnings.   Who ya gonna believe here, your lyin’ eyes or political  pundits?
    no wonder it’s so hard to get accurate information
    not that I care 2 beans for either political party. This just illustrates how  politics gets in the way of facts.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 5:56am

    Reply to #14
    VeganDB12

    VeganDB12

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 18 2008

    Posts: 186

    Dr Campbell states you can get flu and Covid 19 at the same time.

    Yagasjai I am glad you are starting to recover. Many of us will not get the testing for Covid even when we are ill since many authorities won’t do widespread test including US CDC.  I feel for you and many of us may be in the same predicament.  I hope you stay well.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 5:58am

    #23

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 2161

    Agree Brushhog, Governments have little power over viruses

    Governments simply do not have the power to control this contagion.  They are not responsible and are not to blame anymore than they are responsible for rainfall.  This is just being realistic.

    We must focus on our own lives and families.  We have quite a bit of power in our own worlds.  By focusing in our own lives we get even more power.

    Going out shopping again this morning.  Getting organized.

    Got some storage totes from Lowes.  Smaller ones to hold canned foods as they are heavy, and some of these bigger ones.

    I have 4 recipes:

    1.   Pancakes with lots of toppings,

    2.   Pasta dishes,

    3.   Tuna Casarole and

    4.   Chicken Chili

    I’m buying the ingredients needed for each meal x4, and putting each meal together in one tote with a label (and the recipe) “Chili”.  That was yesterday.

    Today, I’m heading out to do it again.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 6:13am

    #24
    asgordon123

    asgordon123

    Status: Member

    Joined: Aug 05 2018

    Posts: 16

    14% of patients 'cured' are at risk of 'rejuvenation' of disease..?

    if correct….terrifying……

    [The Epoch Times, February 26, 2020] On the 25th, Song Tie, deputy director of the Guangdong Provincial Center for Disease Control and Prevention, revealed that preliminary data from the province showed that 14% of patients with new coronary pneumonia discharged from hospital had a “rejuvenation phenomenon.”

    On the same day, similar news was released in Guangzhou. Li Yueping, director of the ICU of the Eighth Hospital Infectious Diseases Center in Guangzhou, said that in the follow-up of discharged patients, 13 patients were found in Fuyang. He said that although the cases were tested positive, it was technically difficult to distinguish between live and dead viruses.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 6:26am

    Reply to #23
    brushhog

    brushhog

    Status: Member

    Joined: Oct 06 2015

    Posts: 72

    Sandpuppy good going and a few ideas

    Toilet paper….cant have too much

    Disinfectant

    Masks

    Gloves

    iodized salt

     

    Gasoline

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 6:30am

    #25

    KugsCheese

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jan 01 2010

    Posts: 893

    Airborne or Not?

    I keep reading official news stating the CV19 is not an airborne virus.   Links posted here state it is airborne.   Which is it?  Furthermore, what makes a virus airborne?   I would think coughing and sneezing sheds virus material small enough to be suspended in the air.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 6:31am

    Reply to #10
    Mr Curious

    Mr Curious

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 77

    10min educational video

    Hi Mr 10min, thank you for doing the video. With respect to feedback you requested, I would insert references along with some of your information about the virus up front. The reason I say so is I’ve spoken to quite a few people about this and they’ll tend to disagree with you about various details. For example, there’s the superintendent of our school district who has kind of heard of a virus and is vaguely toying with the idea of maybe preparing somehow. When I told him about the relatively high Rnaught, he said that somebody else (a virologist no less) had said the Rnaught was 2.5 at the most. I didn’t have any Lancet articles in my back pocket at the time. I’ve found a huge lack of concern even among professional scientists and a local ER doc that I’ve spoken to. Of course, this may be changing now….

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 6:40am

    Reply to #12
    Mr Curious

    Mr Curious

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 77

    what Blumenthal learned

    I am personally stunned that we (the US) can’t figure out how to run a test or to transport patients without exposing non-infected people in the process. It’s bad enough to notice that we can no longer count votes, but this is even more scary.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 6:45am

    #26
    Kat43

    Kat43

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 10 2020

    Posts: 25

    A lot of foods typically stored will be constipating.  I’m stocking up on prunes!  LOL

    In a shortage of gowns, wearing large trash bags can be helpful.

    I get .gov can only do so much, but they’re blatantly lying to us about the situation.  I would respect much more an admission that COVID-19 will be part of our lives from hereon.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 6:58am

    #27
    Chrisboersma

    Chrisboersma

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 25 2020

    Posts: 8

    Does this work? [Self-Isolation for infected people] – Canada / Tononto

    The latest diagnosis is in Ontario and involves a woman who recently traveled to Iran. Provincial health authorities in Ontario said the woman in her 60s went to a hospital emergency room in Toronto, and has since been sent into self-isolation at home as she’s treated.

    Doesn’t this guarantee that friends and family get infected. Worse yet they wont say where she lives.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 7:00am

    #28
    westcoastdog

    westcoastdog

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 04 2020

    Posts: 57

    Covid-19 treats by MIT

    iotechnology

    What are the best coronavirus treatments?

    Here’s a list of promising drugs being tried on people infected with the virus.

    Feb 25, 2020

    The new coronavirus that has sickened more than 70,000 people in central China is spreading, setting off outbreaks in South Korea, Iran, and Italy, and now threatens to move around the globe as a true pandemic. The US Centers for Disease Control today said that its spread in the US is inevitable too, although how many people will get the disease is unknown.

    “We are asking the American public to prepare for the expectation that this might be bad,” Nancy Messonnier, director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, said today.

    If the disease known as Covid-19 does become a pandemic, one thing is for sure: billions of people will be hoping for a drug or vaccine.

    While there’s no proven treatment yet for the virus and the pneumonia it causes, there are more than 70 drugs or drug combinations potentially worth trying, according to the World Health Organization.

    Here are some of the most promising, fast-moving research projects.

    Virus blockers

    Although experimental, the injectable drug remdesivir, made by Gilead Sciences, is a broad-spectrum antiviral that Francis Collins, head of the National Institutes of Health, says he’s “optimistic” about.

    The drug forms a misshapen version of a nucleotide that the virus needs to build new copies of itself, thus preventing it from multiplying. The same type of strategy led to Gilead’s blockbuster hepatitis C drug.

    Remdesivir is a good prospect because it’s broadly active against viruses whose genetic material is made of RNA, like the coronavirus. It works well in mice and monkeys infected with MERS (a related germ), although it didn’t help very much when it was given to Ebola victims in Congo starting in 2018.

    In January, remdesivir was given to a 35-year-old man in Washington state who caught the coronavirus during a trip to China and who then recovered. To find out whether it really works, the NIH said today that it would run a study of remdesivir at the University of Nebraska Medical Center in Omaha, where some Americans with the disease are being cared for or are under quarantine.

    According to the agency, the study will be blinded: some subjects will get the drug and others a dummy injection, or placebo. The first person to join the trial is an American who was on the Diamond Princess cruise ship, the site of a major outbreak.

    Vaccines

    Probably the best defense in the long term, a conventional vaccine has the drawback that such drugs usually take three or four years to reach the market, at the quickest. That’s because it takes time to prove they protect people from infection and manufacture them in large amounts. As well, it’s not unusual for vaccines to simply fail, sending scientists back to the drawing board.

    Luckily, a bunch of prototype vaccines were developed against SARS, the coronavirus disease that killed more than 800 people starting in 2003. Though the vaccines were never needed after SARS stopped spreading, some of those approaches are being dusted off for the new virus.

    One company developing a coronavirus vaccine is Sanofi. Its approach is to manufacture proteins called antigens from the virus; these can be injected into the bloodstream, training people’s immune system to recognized the germ. Usually that kind of vaccine is made in chicken eggs, but that’s a big bottleneck. Millions of eggs aren’t easy to come by. Sanofi has developed other ways to make antigens inside insect cells.

    Faster vaccines

    Some companies are experimenting with new types of vaccines that involve injecting short strands of genetic material from the virus directly into people’s bodies. That way, their own cells make the viral antigens. Although such vaccines haven’t had major success in medicine yet, they are among the quickest varieties to create prototypes of.

    That became clear this week when one company, Moderna Therapeutics, said it had already shipped some doses of an RNA vaccine to the NIH. Those could be given to volunteers in a safety test starting as soon as April. “We have never rushed to intervene on a pandemic in this time frame before,” says Stephen Hoge, the company’s president.

    Plasma from survivors  

    A person who gets infected with a virus but beats it has blood swarming with antibodies to the germ. It’s been shown that collecting blood plasma from survivors and infusing it into another person can sometimes be life-saving. While plasma is not certain to work, more than 27,000 people are already listed as recovered from coronavirus in China, so there could be an ample number of donors. Doctors in Shanghai are among those trying plasma infusions.

    HIV drugs

    To help patients in severe respiratory distress from the virus, doctors in China are prioritizing drugs they can get hold of, and these include several medications already approved for HIV. One hospital in Shanghai, for instance, tested a combination of the pills lopinavir and ritonavir in 52 patients. The company AbbVie markets this combination as Kaletra in the US. While they didn’t see any effect, more studies are planned or under way using other drugs, including Truvada, a once-daily pill taken by people who don’t have HIV but are at risk for getting infected through sex.

    Chloroquine

    According to some social-media posts, the cure for coronavirus is already known, and it’s the old anti-malaria drug chloroquine. Actually, that’s not proven. But studies of the cheap, well studied, and readily available compound are under way in China, with patients getting 400 milligrams a day for five days. Initial laboratory tests suggest the drug, discovered in 1934, may be highly effective.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 7:06am

    #29

    saxplayer00o1

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jul 30 2009

    Posts: 3127

    Taiwan News has the story of patients being burned alive

    Chinese woman describes Wuhan virus patients being burned alive

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 7:11am

    Reply to #7
    km64

    km64

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 77

    DEMOCRATIC Senator Blumenthal

    Gee, we should just trust a Democrat not to weaponize a crisis…

    In other news, President Trump will hold a press conference at 6PM today with the CDC.

    https://www.voanews.com/science-health/coronavirus-outbreak/trump-hold-press-conference-coronavirus-us-threat

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 7:17am

    #30

    saxplayer00o1

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jul 30 2009

    Posts: 3127

    State: Residents should have emergency supplies on hand in case of coronavirus outbreak (Hawaii)

    State: Residents should have emergency supplies on hand in case of coronavirus outbreak

    The state said to prepare for a potential outbreak, residents should:

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 7:23am

    #31
    km64

    km64

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 77

    Good Overview and Prep List

    This seems like a good overview of the issue and has a decent prep list for the common family (ie not survivalists.) Would be worth forwarding to those who are currently less concerned.

    https://virologydownunder.com/so-you-think-youve-about-to-be-in-a-pandemic/

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 7:37am

    #32
    km64

    km64

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 77

    Other reactions from briefing

    These reactions seem much more measured and informative than the sky is falling from others…

    Sen. Bill Cassidy (R-LA), who previously served as a doctor before coming to Congress
    https://www.c-span.org/video/?469682-101/senator-cassidy-coronavirus-outbreak

    NOTE: at 4:40, he’s asked why it was classified, and said at the end it was declassified. I’m guessing because he stated he stayed after to ask more questions that some legislators left before the final end

    Senate Health, Education, Labor & Pensions Committee Chair Lamar Alexander (R-TN)
    https://www.c-span.org/video/?469682-4/senator-alexander-coronavirus-outbreak

    Senator Mike Braun(R-IN)
    https://www.c-span.org/video/?469682-7/senator-mike-braun-coronavirus-outbreak

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 7:55am

    Reply to #32
    VeganDB12

    VeganDB12

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 18 2008

    Posts: 186

    I get your point

    Still and all democratic Senator Blumenthal seemed pretty upset.  It did occur to me that this could be politicized by all sides but it doesn’t explain why these people won’t test for the virus and are standing back.  I will be watching the President’s speech tonight to see what they have to say.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 7:58am

    Reply to #31
    TWA

    TWA

    Status: Member

    Joined: Oct 27 2014

    Posts: 14

    Good link - thanks: Virology down under.

    Here’s another useful page on the site: https://virologydownunder.com/past-time-to-tell-the-public-it-will-probably-go-pandemic-and-we-should-all-prepare-now/

     

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 8:02am

    Reply to #14
    Ision

    Ision

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 07 2020

    Posts: 81

    COVID-19 Does NOT protect one from ANY OTHER pathogen, or illness!

    Becoming infected by a particular viral pathogen does not prevent one from being infected by ANY OTHER DIFFERENT pathogen…nor does it protect your from any SECONDARY infection of COVID-19.

    One may have an upper respiratory viral infection…at the same time one is having a lower respiratory inflammation caused by a different virus….at the same time you have a bacterial infection.

    If you experience an upper respiratory symptom, it will probably be caused by the common flu.  If you have a lower respiratory symptom, with mucus cough and temperature, probably due to the SARS-CoV-2 infection, resulting in COVID-19.

    Terminal cases display different pathology of the lungs for each pathogen, which is characteristic for each virus.

    Buy all the toilet paper you can stand!

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 8:16am

    Reply to #25
    Ision

    Ision

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 07 2020

    Posts: 81

    SARS-CoV-2 can infect over distances via aerosol transmission.

    Aerosol transmission has been defined as person-to-person transmission of pathogens through the air by means of inhalation of infectious particles. Particles up to 100 μm in size are considered inhalable.

    Aerosolized particles are small enough to be inhaled into the oronasopharynx, with the smaller, respirable size ranges penetrating deeper into the trachea and lung.

    Aerosols are emitted whenever an infected person coughs, sneezes, talks, or exhales.

    Pathogens, like SARS-CoV-2, which are transmitted by respiratory aerosols can travel short or long range from the source depending on the size and shape of the particles, the initial velocity, and environmental conditions.  Thus the need for the infected to WEAR A NICE MASK.

     

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 8:21am

    Reply to #32
    Tom Sammy

    Tom Sammy

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 30 2020

    Posts: 128

    Senator feedback from Tuesday - makes sense to me?

    Thoughts from another Senator (R) on Tuesday questioning the current responses.   Seems like some  good thoughts like hey let’s communicate this thing better so people are informed!!!!

     

    Sen. John Kennedy (R-La.), a member of the Senate Appropriations homeland security and health and human services subcommittees, said the administration needs to do a better job communicating the level of the threat.

    “Here’s what they need to do, and I would suggest that Secretary Azar be the one to do it,” he said, referring to Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar.

    “There’s some real basic questions that the American people need answers [to.] How many cases do we have? Based on their modeling, how many do they think we will have? How’s the virus transmitted?” he said.

    What is the mortality rate? What’s the mortality rate compared to influenza? How many facemasks are we going to need and are we working on getting more? How many respirators are we going to need and are we working on getting more?” he said.

    Kennedy said he wants to know “what steps in a concrete way” the administration is taking to stop the virus from spreading throughout the United States.

    He said the Department of Homeland Security and health officials at other departments have given conflicting answers on how long it’s likely to take to develop a coronavirus vaccine.

    “God made these things called telephones and they could get on the phone and talk to each other,” he said.

    Kennedy had earlier in the day grilled acting Department of Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf during a subcommittee budget hearing, appearing increasingly frustrated as Wolf was unable to answer questions about coronavirus preparedness measures.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 8:42am

    #33
    kunga

    kunga

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 251

    Avoid mucous producing foods

    Anything you are allergic to will produce excess mucous and inflammation in the body.  The SAD diet high in milk products (casein) and wheat (gluten) produces mucous in most people.  Sugar, corn, eggs, deep fried foods, refined vegetable oils, alcohol, soy all can cause issues.  Try to shift the diet to include broccoli, onions, garlic, radishes, celery, leafy greens, berries, ginger, tumeric, etc.

    Lots of ideas on the internet.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 8:49am

    #34
    greendoc

    greendoc

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Sep 23 2008

    Posts: 163

    Covid mutating OR host susceptibilty could account for increased virulence in Iran/Italy

    I think you misquote the genetic similarity of SARS and Covid as being 98% similar. This is not correct. They are only 79% similar.  This 20% difference could account for the big differences observed on autopsy: fibrosis vs increased exudates.

    Notably, 2019-nCoV was closely related (with 88% identity) to two bat-derived severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS)-like coronaviruses, bat-SL-CoVZC45 and bat-SL-CoVZXC21, collected in 2018 in Zhoushan, eastern China, but were more distant from SARS-CoV (about 79%) and MERS-CoV (about 50%).  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/32007145

    I agree, would be great to see the genomic sequencing of Covid in Italy and Iran to see if it has mutated from the virus circulating in Asia.  However, I want to point out at least one other possibility: host susceptibility as it varies by ethnicities.  Once the dust settles and more research comes out, host genetics and how it influences the incidence and severity of Covid-19 may show it is the same virus but there are differences in the host populations genetic risk scores (as well as epigenetic and cultural  factors like common vitamin/mineral deficiencies, malnutrition, hygiene practices) that can influence virulence.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 9:19am

    #35

    Mark Cochrane

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: May 24 2011

    Posts: 875

    Yes and No - Brushhog

     

     

    #1 The government[s] doesn’t know everything. They get limited information from various sources and they don’t know whats fact and what isn’t. They also don’t know too much about this disease or what to do about it. And #2 Their primary concern is not to cause panic. Public panic is a greater threat than the disease itself. The economy could crash, which is not only about money but about the ability to maintain hospitals, the supply chain of medicine etc. They don’t want people to panic and run out to clear the shelves which will lead to some people having all they need and others starving. Lets not even talk about violence in the streets and the other obvious issues.  (bolding added by me)

    While it is definitely true that any government doesn’t know everything, they also should be better informed than just about anyone given their resources and access to privileged information. The government can not control this virus but they can help direct the response of the public to the outbreak of this pandemic (can anyone with a straight face say this isn’t the accurate term?). Pretending it isn’t there or isn’t serious is not going to help.

    What kind of nonsensical argument is this “avoid panic at all costs” meme? They are not in any way shape or form avoiding or minimizing panic. They are merely delaying it a while, allowing fears to be stoked higher by global events as the outbreaks multiply around the world. What does anyone expect to happen when the vast sleeping public wakes up to learn that there has been an outbreak in their country or near their home?

    Because of this idiotic don’t worry be happy government strategy in the US, the chance of outright panic has been immensely increased. Instead of providing honest information about what is and isn’t known as this global outbreak has progressed, combined with calm and clear education about how to respond and plan when and if the virus shows up here (which it undoubtedly has) they have opted for a model where the majority of people, who are blissfully ignorant, are going to have their fear response triggered all at once by some event (say the discovery of active spread in a US city – whenever we get around to testing anyone).

    The response is likely to be the biological equivalent to the last few days in the markets. Given the vacuum of believable government information to date there will be near-complete destruction of any confidence in what the government (including CDC) says about the virus at that point. There is much greater likelihood of seeing the widespread panic and shelf clearing responses that the government is supposedly trying to avoid.

    Instead of having a month to plan and slowly acquire supplies, like many of us here have done, most people are going to try to respond out of near total ignorance at the same time? What is that going to look like?

    I don’t expect or believe the government can control the inevitable spread of this disease but because it chose not to inform and educate the public so as to allow people to prepare accordingly and be responsible for themselves they have taken on the moral onus of protecting the entire sleeping population they were afraid to wake.  Good luck with that.

    Government isn’t supposed to mollycoddle the populace like a bunch of daycare kids (don’t scare them) but it is supposed to actually work on our behalf for the common good (i.e. help us to make informed choices). We could learn a lot from other countries like Singapore, South Korea and dare I say it, North Korea about how to foster an informed response to the virus that doesn’t include PANIC. While we are at it, maybe they could teach us to make virus test kits……

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 9:23am

    #36
    SafeinNH1952

    SafeinNH1952

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2020

    Posts: 5

    China Numbers

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/leaked-docs-reveal-covid-19-infections-52-times-higher-official-figures-chinas

     

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 9:33am

    #37
    David Parisee

    David Parisee

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 19 2020

    Posts: 10

    Korean update

     

     

    Another day. New habits developing. More hand washing. Sanitizing our clothes upon entering our house with a 45% alcohol solution. Immediate shower afterwards. Constant sanitizing of commonly touched surfaces. I found a new area that I had not considered before; the handles of the photocopier.

    There is anxiety of the virus and the anxiety of living differently. I am a creature of habit that enjoys routine. I feel on edge. However, it was beautiful today. Last night, we had rain. I imagine the cleaning of the streets and the air from the rain really  helps us out a lot. I am very grateful for the respite.

    It appears the mysterious church that accelerated the outbreak in Korea was in Wuhan in December  and abruptly left upon learning about the virus in China. The church , as I was told today, informed no one upon returning to Korea.We see the result of those decisions today. Such selfishness.

    The numbers are around 1300 today. I wonder how many critically ill patients Korea can take care of before the whole system collapses?

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 9:47am

    #38
    karen is a farmer

    karen is a farmer

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 24 2020

    Posts: 15

    How long until quarantine in US?

    What are you all guessing??

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 9:54am

    #39
    Insightfull417

    Insightfull417

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2020

    Posts: 2

    Thanks for all of this impressive information

    Just wanted to say thank you a million times to  Chris and Adam (and everyone else) for this website and all of it’s information, at a time where I feel very uncertain about our future. No doubt about it, this is a historical point in time. I have been following along with reading the recent postings and comments since January and have prepared to the best of my ability. My spouse isn’t completely on board, but I have to do what I can to protect us as a family. The uncertainty in all of this is something I never imagined would actually happen in reality.  It will be interesting to watch the Presidents speech tonight.

    Also, came across this earlier… what do you all think about it?

    The Coronavirus 5G Connection and Coverup

     

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 10:15am

    #40

    msnrochny

    Status: Member

    Joined: Nov 04 2010

    Posts: 48

    Solid Evidence China is Radically Under Reporting

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/leaked-docs-reveal-covid-19-infections-52-times-higher-official-figures-chinas

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 10:16am

    #41
    kunga

    kunga

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 251

    Garlic, ginger, Himalayan pink salt, goji berries

    Much of this sourced from China.  If you use, stock up.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 11:28am

    Reply to #41
    Kat43

    Kat43

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 10 2020

    Posts: 25

    Garlic

    My understanding is that the garlic has to be fresh (within hours) or it’s just flavoring, not health benefitting.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 11:33am

    Reply to #7
    gyurash

    gyurash

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 07 2016

    Posts: 33

    Zero preparedness

    I can guess why the Senator is disgusted. I live just outside a metropolitan area on the west coast with a population of over 350,000 people. There are a total of 412 hospital beds serving it. So medical help for .0011 of its people. On any given day, all the beds are already full. In short, if this is typical across the US, then we have ZERO capacity to handle a pandemic. Not just a difficult situation, impossible! He was likely presented with a stark choice, let 20% of the population die, or total lockdown and crush the economy down to nothing for a year or more before enough people have been through it to restart things. How should that make any of us feel? It is going to take some adjustments.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 11:41am

    #42
    pat the rat

    pat the rat

    Status: Member

    Joined: Nov 01 2011

    Posts: 141

    face mask

    The government says that it has about 30,000,000 face mask.There is about300 million people in the U.S. if face mask are needed for 60 days, that is 1.8 billion mask needed.Point being we are going hell of shortage of mask in this country. Grab every thing you can now!

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 11:54am

    Reply to #2
    greendoc

    greendoc

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Sep 23 2008

    Posts: 163

    Q: Could this CCr5 mutation some people be resistant? A: too rare to make a difference IMO.

     

    Thank you Quahogs for finding this super interesting development.

    This  appears to be a theory at this time (although based on what appears to be compelling evidence, but I am not a virologist so not qualified to judge the methods or conclusions) .

    “In conclusion it is our opinion that individuals with two copies of CCR5-Delta32 mutation could possibly have immunity to the Coronavirus (COVID-19) and individuals with one copy of the CCR5-Delta32 mutation could have a maximum chance of recovery at a event of being infected with the COVID-19 but more research is necessary to be certain.”

    https://www.delta-32.com/connections-between-covid-19-and-hiv.html

    Fewer than 1% of Caucasians are homozygous and therefore potentially immune.  Individuals who are homozygous have have two copies for the deletion CCR5DD. There are Northern European populations with higher percentages of folks with one copy (heterozygous) of the CCR5-Delta32 deletion: Norway, Britain, Ireland (the color coded map here https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0198885917305104#b0070)/ Theoretically, these individuals may have increased recovery if infected, but this is simply an untested theory at this time.

    This is a brief explanation of CCR5-Delta32 deletion. One of its rsid# is rs333

    https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Rs333

    IF you have done a 23andme test in the past you can see what you are by looking up your results online inserting i3003626 into search box here:  https://you.23andme.com/tools/data/.  Or you can do a control find and search for i3003626 in your raw data file from 23andme.  You can learn more here: https://customercare.23andme.com/hc/en-us/articles/212196868-Accessing-Your-Raw-Genetic-Data.  I do not know if Ancestry tests for this, I suspect they do.

    You are homozygous if you see -/-. I am not….I am homozygous for insertions (As are the majority of people worldwide!) Darn, I am irish german polish czech, so a chance I could have been heterozygous, but no such luck.

    The defective receptor variant CCR5-Δ32 does not always grant immunological advantage. In numerous inflammatory diseases and during infection with some pathogens, CCR5-Δ32 plays a detrimental role instead [14]. A prominent example is infection with West Nile virus, where CCR5-Δ32 homozygosity is associated with a significantly higher risk for fatal outcome [15].

    LSS: This homozygous mutation pretty rare, but some Northern Europeans who carry one copy might have a slight edge.  But just a theory. here is the dbSNP and 1000genomes page for this deletion to look at population frequencies.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/projects/SNP/snp_ref.cgi?do_not_redirect&rs=rs333.  You must click on the See additional pop frequency from 1000Genome [here] hyperlink and look at the highlighted column for 1000genome data. In the below screenshot you can some allele frequencies too…the pink bars are people with one copy.  Two copies so rare, does not show up at all.

    Claire

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 11:59am

    #43
    ADK-Hiker

    ADK-Hiker

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 28 2020

    Posts: 1

    Reuse masks?

    Is there any evidence that masks could be reused by heating in an oven to kill the virus contamination? My kitchen oven goes as low as 170 F. Elastic bands might need to be replaced by cloth ties. Does anyone know what temperature might be needed to kill the virus successfully?

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 12:15pm

    Reply to #39

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 993

    5G China hype

    The current installations in China are the first generation, < 6GHz of 5G.  Most of the equipment comes from ZTE – here is a piece that talks about the frequencies being deployed.  The concerns over mmWave energy, which I don’t dismiss, relate to the later deployments of >/= 28GHz, which will come later.

    http://the-mobile-network.com/2019/06/zte-opens-smart-site-and-network-playbook-for-5g/

    “As is the case for most of the vendors there is an array of sizes and frequency band support in the antennas. As well as those UBRs, there are 32T/R 2.6GHz and 3.5GHz antennas. Qcell is its in-building solution, with 4TR quadband support for 900/1800/1800/2.3GHz and 2.5GHz support.”

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 12:18pm

    Reply to #18
    VTGothic

    VTGothic

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 05 2020

    Posts: 59

    I'm in Continual Amazement

    I am continually amazed at the asininity of experts and government officials who continue to operate behind the wave. It’s only possible because they ignore the information readily available to all of us who are surfing the front edge of the wave.

    Makes me wonder how the human species managed to last as long as we have.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 12:30pm

    Reply to #35
    VTGothic

    VTGothic

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 05 2020

    Posts: 59

    Incredibly right-on, Mark!

    You’ve done a great job articulating my perspective, too. Thanks.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 12:37pm

    Reply to #28
    SteveW

    SteveW

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jan 21 2010

    Posts: 156

    Soluble ACE2 in China clinical trials this week

    Westcoast, this is an addition to your extensive list that you may have seen in this morning’s Vancouver Sun. Seems a local academic made human recombinant ACE2 due to the SARS outbreak. Soluble ACE2 was something Chris mentioned quite some time ago. It falls into the class of virus blockers by, hopefully, preventing binding rather that inhibiting viral transcription (by drugs).

    One of many trials, the press release is here for anyone interested, which indicates it’s already through phase I and II trials (basically not harmful in test subjects).

    https://www.apeiron-biologics.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/200226_APEIRON_APN01_Covid-2019_trial_in_China.pdf

     

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 12:44pm

    #44
    Tom Sammy

    Tom Sammy

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 30 2020

    Posts: 128

    US so slow to release info

    this case was announced earlier this afternoon…and it’s like a scooby doo mystery as to where, how, when??  terrible communications!

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/policy/healthcare/484773-new-coronavirus-case-detected-in-us%3famp

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 12:45pm

    Reply to #43
    kunga

    kunga

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 251

    Re using masks

    Rather than heating, consider spraying/soaking in hydrogen peroxide or colloidal silver and air drying.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 12:51pm

    #45
    Mrs. Bohall

    Mrs. Bohall

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 30 2020

    Posts: 8

    How about activated charcoal?

    I personally use activated charcoal as a smell remover in a few spots in my house (kittybox room esp.) and I am aware of some of its other beneficial qualities (ie: H20 filter and ability to counteract poisons and sickness in the body).

    I found this link a few days ago and am planning on doing the DIY “gas mask” as an alternative to the cloth masks. That being said, I also plan on doing my shopping in the middle of the night too…if the virus gets close to us here (I live in the Midwest).

    Any thoughts on this link would be appreciated… perhaps the info included in the article could be a help to all of us trying to be smart about this whole mess…

    https://www.primalsurvivor.net/diy-activated-charcoal/

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 1:06pm

    #46

    Mark Cochrane

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: May 24 2011

    Posts: 875

    Where does Pathetic fit into CDC?

    Interesting bit of actual data (link) on the positivity rate for Covid-19 testing in some countries.

    Number of tests and positivity rate for Covid-19 as of today

    • UK: 7,132 concluded tests, of which 13 positive (0.2% positivity rate). [source]
    • Italy: 9,462 tests, of which 458 positive (4.8% positivity rate), awaiting results: unknown. [source]
    • France: 762 tests, of which 17 positive (2.2% positivity rate), 179 awaiting results. [source]
    • Austria: 321 tests, of which 2 positive (0.6% positivity rate), awaiting results: unknown. [source]

    China and South Korea have managed to test hundreds of thousands of people, Italy is in the midst of testing many thousands. Even Iran, late to the party, has managed to test more than 1,750. Austria had its first case yesterday and has already put up results from 321 tests!

    I wish I lived in an advanced country with the technical, medical and fiscal ability to do such things…. Wait, I am in the Unites States where we haven’t yet cracked 500 people tested (445 for those counting at home) and apparently can’t make a reliable testing kit. Good thing about not sampling anyone across the country is that we have prevented any active spreading in our communities…right? But I heard that from the CDC. Oh, wait, yesterday they said that ‘community spread appears imminent, and disruption to U.S. communities could be significant.’

    Everyone should grab their towels and revisit the Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy – DON’T PANIC!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waZSvFbIOGk

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 1:39pm

    #47
    dcallback

    dcallback

    Status: Member

    Joined: Aug 24 2015

    Posts: 7

    Freeze Dried Food

    So back in January (you know, when it was just “the flu” everywhere but here), I decided it was a good time to add to my current stock of long term food storage.  On 1/24/20, I placed my order w/ Emergency Essentials and paid in full.  Today I’m told my order may, again “may”, ship out around March 9th.   This avenue of supply appears to be a dead end.  Walmart here I come – thanks Emergency Essentials.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 2:05pm

    Reply to #43
    thejacksonteam

    thejacksonteam

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 29 2012

    Posts: 13

    UV light on a mask

    How well would a UV light work on masks?

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 2:23pm

    #48
    Laura from Texas

    Laura from Texas

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2020

    Posts: 13

    Chris, dtrammel, and sand_puppy: What do you think? Kids braces.

    I am concerned about my kid’s braces.  He’s got more than a year’s worth of treatment still to go, and I can’t help thinking that’s pretty high risk during a pandemic.

    At what point do we say  rip ’em out, finished or not?

    Anyone is welcome to chime in with advice and opinions.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 2:40pm

    Reply to #48

    Oliveoilguy

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jun 29 2012

    Posts: 633

    Laura....Wait and watch

    Regarding the braces…I would wait until this began approaching your area to take action. Children seem to be safer by the stats. Life has to go on within the balance of vigilance and preparedness.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 2:41pm

    #49
    Desogames

    Desogames

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 210

    News bout the Netherlands!

    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nu.nl%2Fcoronavirus%2F6033612%2Fdrie-nieuwe-coronabesmettingen-gemeld-vlak-over-de-grens-bij-sittard.html&sandbox=1

    3 new cases across the border of the dutch town of sittard where said to have gone to carnival with an infected soldier. My mother just texted me there will be an important announcement at 20:35 local time on NPO1, the main state channel (and the timing is after the state news, the most watched program on television usually).

    So far many media are still reporting “low to none” infection risk for asymptomatic patients.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 2:42pm

    Reply to #43

    dtrammel

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 698

    Yes You Can Reuse Masks

    Welcome to the community David.

    To answer your question, there was an earlier study done on SARS that showed you could disinfect paper masks by soaking them in a 3% hydrogen peroxide bath for 30 minutes, then rinsing them in water and allowing them to air dry.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/203115

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 2:44pm

    Reply to #48
    kunga

    kunga

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 251

    Braces (talking out of turn, here)

    1)  Don’t PANIC.

    2) Talk to the orthodontist.

    3) The teeth aren’t going anywhere.  Except for a possible increased risk of tooth decay, I wouldn’t think letting things rest for 6 months or a year until this all gets sorted out is bad.  Just besure kid brushes and flosses well.

    “…rip em out, finished or not?…”  Youall Texas women are rough, ooohhh..

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 2:45pm

    Reply to #48
    Nairobi

    Nairobi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 05 2020

    Posts: 289

    Absolutely Laura. Have the braces removed. It can wait until next year when hopefully there is a vaccine. Why even think twice about things like this?

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 2:46pm

    Reply to #43
    ezlxq1949

    ezlxq1949

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Apr 29 2009

    Posts: 334

    Reuse masks?

    The standard temperature for an autoclave is 121 degrees Celsius. To get an idea of how hot this is, consider that corresponds to approximately 250 degrees Fahrenheit. In other words, it is hotter than boiling water. The reason for this is that simply bringing something up to the temperature of boiling water, 100 degrees Celsius (212 degrees Fahrenheit), is not sufficient to sterilize it because bacterial spores can survive this temperature. In contrast, 121 degrees Celsius is almost always sufficient for sterilization.

    Source

    Your oven should do the job obviating a pressure cooker environment, although you’d need to test a mask to see how autoclaving affects it. Consider also this chart of temperature, pressure and time.

     

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 2:49pm

    #50
    ezlxq1949

    ezlxq1949

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Apr 29 2009

    Posts: 334

    Big pharma loses out?

    If chloroquine phosphate is as safe, simple, inexpensive and readily available as claimed (in spite of my nervousness about side effects), then vaccines and other drugs may not be necessary. Oh dear, has a possible profit centre just evaporated?

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 2:52pm

    Reply to #43
    Soar07

    Soar07

    Status: Member

    Joined: Aug 05 2010

    Posts: 11

    Mask Cleaning

    MY idea is this: Soak with Vinegar. Spray with high pressure hose. Dry in the Sun(on both sides).

    Vinegar is kills viruses yet is not toxic to later breathe the residue. Another possibility is maybe hydrogen peroxide

    High Pressure Spray to wash from inside out to flush out contaminates. May have to limit pressure to keep from destroying mask.

    Sun drying – UV from sun kills viruses.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 2:54pm

    #51
    thejacksonteam

    thejacksonteam

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 29 2012

    Posts: 13

    Surface life of the virus...45 days?

    This from the Assn for Biosafety regarding SARS: 45 days at room temp?

    When the first wave of the SARS epidemic seemed to have reached its conclusion, it was completely unclear how the spread of the virus would evolve. Taking into account all the uncertainties and anticipating the worst-case scenario, many laboratories and vaccine manufacturers started working on a vaccine approach against SARS infection. The results presented here describe the evaluation of decontamination practices performed within the framework of a SARS-Coronavirus (SARS-CoV) vaccine development project.

    We show that it takes 45 days at room temperature to fully inactivate the human SARS-CoV, whereas an enveloped virus such as the rabies virus, when treated in a similar way, is totally inactivated in three days. Moreover, the SARS-CoV is very resistant to alkaline treatment and, even more surprisingly, formaldehyde fumigation is not efficacious on the dried virus (under the conditions tested). Only heat (autoclave) and hypochlorite chloride treatments are efficacious treatments for the decontamination of SARS-CoV.

     

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 2:54pm

    Reply to #43

    dtrammel

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 698

    UV Instrument Sterilizer - Good Addition To Your Prep

    There is some question whether UV light will penetrate deep enough into the fabric of the mask to kill all the virus spores. Remember, your act of breathing pulls them into the fabric. Better to wash them in a 30 minute bath of 3% hydrogen peroxide, then water rinse and air dry.

    Now UV light can be helpful for many other things. Consider you can’t soak your cell phone. We discussed this a while back here on the threads. You have two choices, a smaller unit that is sized for your cell phone, or a bigger unit. They make UV light sterilizers for baby bottles. Here’s the model I and a couple of others here have bought.

    EVLA UV Bottle Sterilizer

    Its a bit pricy, at $140US but its very large and can be used to sterilizer and kill the virus on many things at the same it. Put it at your door and then when you come home, toss everything you carry that can’t get wet into it, and those things that can be into a small plastic bowl of Hydrogen peroxide. Your shoes then get set in a shallow tote with some bleach to sanitize the soles.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 2:54pm

    #52

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 2161

    How to calculate the Case Fatality Rate DURING an epidemic

    Both Chris and one other poster (sorry I forgot who you are) explained this.  Found a very nice formal explanation and wanted to share.

    1.  Calculating Case Fatality Rate (CFR) AFTER an epidemic is over is simple:

    CFR = deaths / infected.

    2.  During the epidemic, the time lag between getting infected and death complicates the calculation.  Some sick people who are destined to die have not yet done so.   Say the average time lag between day of infection and day of death is 14 days.

    CFR = deaths / the number that were infected 14 days earlier.

    3.   An alternative approximation is to look at only completed cases, ones that have resolved into either recovery or death.

    CFR = deaths / (recovered + deaths)

    I understand that there are awesome statistical modeling approaches where lots of other factors are included.

    —————–

    CFR is different from Mortality Rate (MR) which is:

    MR = deaths / population size.

    Mortality Rate depends on CRF and on the transmission rate.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 2:58pm

    #53

    dtrammel

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 698

    Agree with Oliveoilguy Laura

    Have a chat with the doctor next time you are in, or if its more than a few weeks for the next appointment, then maybe go in and have a chat now.

    Ask them how they are going to handle the crisis and the increased need for protective measures. If they blow your worry off then I might reconsider or give them a spirited discussion about seeking another dentist.

    I’d be more worried that you would catch it in the waiting room from other visitors than from the staff. I’m sure they take some precautions (masks, gloves) now anyway.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 3:00pm

    Reply to #43
    kunga

    kunga

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 251

    Re using masks

    An autoclave is steam under pressure, wet heat.  It would work to sterilize a mask.  However, this is very different conditions from dry heat in an oven.  Very few people can afford an autoclave for home use.   Maybe a pressure cooker, properly set up would work.  I have used one in a small lab for glassware sterilization.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 3:00pm

    Reply to #32
    Rajkumarijay

    Rajkumarijay

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 08 2020

    Posts: 44

    Is he being truthful? Who knows?

    First the info is classified. Then it’s not. That’s fishy in and of itself.

    Then he speaks of antibodies. Maybe someone can answer this. If a person survives a bout of Covid-19, and their antibodies can help prevent the virus in others, why can’t it prevent the first person from getting the virus a second time and why is it worse the second time? Maybe the answer is more technical than I would be able to understand but it doesn’t seem to make sense to me.

     

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 3:09pm

    Reply to #51
    kunga

    kunga

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 251

    Conflicting info.

    Could drive one crazy.  Abstract to deactivate corona on surfaces says alkaline substances don’t work.  So the organic ammonium chloride wet wipes don’t work?  Read the opposite last few weeks.  This abstract says bleach will work.  So who does one believe?

    Got to use everything, I guess.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 3:15pm

    Reply to #43
    Nairobi

    Nairobi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 05 2020

    Posts: 289

    Old fashion bleach will do the trick on masks

    Just like granny used to do with soiled hankys, linens and anything else that might have come in contact with infection, it got presoaked in a little bleach water then washed.

    Has everyone forgotten about bleach?

    Well its is dirt cheap and it kills germs, viruses and bacteria about as well as any product on the market if used in the right concentrations.

    Grams knew. That’s why a lot of us are here.

    Edit: Just reading a Wiki that many US hospitals use a standard dilution of one part bleach to 5 parts water to kill bacteria and germs on surfaces. That’s pretty strong and will probably whiten any clothing it gets spilled on. Bleach out of the bottle is usually around 5% so your dilution is just taking it down to 1% of the packaged liquid.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 3:24pm

    #54
    madamt truefire

    madamt truefire

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2020

    Posts: 3

    Chris, I’ve been following your videos and they are extremely helpful.  I’m a public health microbiologist.  I asked regarding serological testing and immunoly friend said this:  There is no Ag/AB lateral flow rapid DX text  for covid19 so the world is stuck with a molecular test that can only be done in bigger labs.  On top of that, the test formulation that CDC put out had at  least one non-optimal PCR primer set.  in plain English, We won’t have a rapid test available for awhile.  I put this up on my blog:

    Chasing Wicked Beasts.     Stay the Heck Put.   epidemicsweb.wordpress.com     Keep going dude, I truly appreciate your input and have set your videos many places.  Thanks.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 3:25pm

    #55

    dtrammel

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 698

    Have Both Nairobi

    I am only recommending hydrogen peroxide for masks because I have a study that looked at it. I do have both bleach and hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) here for cleaning. Probably use the bleach for hard surfaces where I will want to wipe them down and then let air dry. For my hands and face the H2O2. A hot shower with plenty of soap for the rest of me.

    That’s an important point, we all gotten used to spraying on the cleaner and then wiping the wetness right up. That does very little to actually kill germs and viruses. You have to allow the chemical time to degrade the enzymes surrounding the virus, and to kill it. Most recommend letting it stand for 10 minutes, so wipe the surface wet, then leave.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 3:28pm

    Reply to #53
    madamt truefire

    madamt truefire

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2020

    Posts: 3

    catching in waiting room

    Right on! I’m a public health microbiogist and refuse to go into anyone’s waiting room right now or during ANY season.  I wait outside. I’ve seen horrors in clinic waiting rooms.  It makes no sense. N95 mask will protect, but only limited time.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 3:32pm

    Reply to #43
    madamt truefire

    madamt truefire

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2020

    Posts: 3

    grandma bleach

    Absolutely.  I had a Hanta virus scare a few years ago as I live in the woods.  I used standard bleach, but yes, threw it down and walked away.  I didn’t re enter the space for fifteen or more minutes.  The problem with bleach is its corrosive quality, but yes it works. absolutely.  g

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 3:35pm

    Reply to #53
    Nairobi

    Nairobi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 05 2020

    Posts: 289

    You and me both Madam Truefire

    Last time I was at the clinic I told the receptionist I would wait outside until my appt time and could she just text me when ready since I preferred to avoid the risk.

    Was she ever irritated.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 3:39pm

    Reply to #19
    Wantingtoretire

    Wantingtoretire

    Status: Member

    Joined: Oct 14 2011

    Posts: 10

    Containment Measures Still Work

    VeganDB12, thanks for posting the paper and YouTube by Dr. John Campbell. They validated what I had been thinking. That is, CorVID-19 is highly contagious. In Wuhan, the Chinese locked down as many people as they could. It was isolation in small groups. This is based on a blog from two people so affected by the lockdown and published in the Huffington Post. There were photographs.

    Given the published work and Dr. John Campbells’s analysis, I really don’t see containment working in the US unless it is ruthless. Self-quarantine won’t be allowed because containment is not guaranteed. The high transmission rate must be curtailed.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 3:44pm

    #56

    Tina S

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 25 2015

    Posts: 14

    How to make tinctures at home?

    I have a short term supply of the Buhner protocol tinctures but also want to start making my own.  Bought organic kudzu and japanese knotweed root at an herbal shop in Seattle this weekend.  Planning to chop more finely and fill glass bottle 1/3 with roots and top with 100 proof vodka.  Filling all the way to the top to prevent oxidization and topping with  metal canning lid as apparently plastic lids can melt in tincturing.  I can’t find any more specific instructions in Stephen Buhner’s Herbal Anti-Virals book or my other herbals so any thoughts welcome.  I figure once the word gets out the Buhner protocol herbs may go from super obscure to hot items plus it’s a lot cheaper to make your own. Thanks!

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 3:47pm

    #57
    Brendon_Watt

    Brendon_Watt

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 04 2020

    Posts: 13

    Mask sterilisation

    So there is more than just the best way to sterilise a mask.

    There is …. have I affected the properties of the mask.

    We maybe forget it is a filter and a particulate trapper and …. how do we effect its properties of a particulate mask.

    I don’t know anyone that washed their car or oil filters out and reuses them.

    In the end I am sure it’s a good backup plan ….

    uv or chemical or heat. I am sure they all affect the qualities of the mask  but I am sure it’s better than no mask  remembering a mask also stops you touching your face

    remembering an n95 mask is quite uncomfortable to wear because they are restrictive

    remembering the n95 masks that’s easier to breathe through have an exhaust valve …. the exhaust valve opens and let’s contaminates out so also not good for containment of aerosol particles

    anyhow  read some stuff  figure what you think is better  but think outside the box  think inside the box

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4699414/

     

     

     

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 3:47pm

    Reply to #51
    Nairobi

    Nairobi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 05 2020

    Posts: 289

    Hypochlorite chloride = household bleach

    That was a good find regarding decontamination, thejacksonteam. This quote said it all: “Only heat (autoclave) and hypochlorite chloride treatments are efficacious treatments for the decontamination of SARS-CoV.”

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 3:47pm

    #58
    Randy G Ross of New Haven and New Hampshire

    Randy G Ross of New Haven and New Hampshire

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2020

    Posts: 3

    Niacin Surpresses Cytokine Storm by Gene Surpession & other + effects

    Niacin and or B3 not just improves blood flow to the lungs thus oxygen to the body, but actually Suppresses Cytokine Expression (link below) and that is medically noted to reduce Lung Inflammation from Pneumonia and is a crucial treatment at the point of Sepsis from Pneumonia, and should 100% be standard Covid-19 (Sars-2, Wuhan Pneumonia, China Coronavirus, NCV-19 or are all-time Favorite the Kung Flu, because it’s Chinese and Kicks your Ass!) treatment at the point of Pneumonia and Sepsis, but remember they are administering via the blood, and not orally and taxing the liver and kidneys that much more for the same effect, and if you were at home, and very dehydrated, had a high fever with your organs over taxed because of such, I am not sure how safe a high dosage of B3 would be to conduce a Niacin Flush, and have yet to do the research on just how taxing Niacin Flushes could potentially be on a strained system, and I’ll go further to suggest many home treatments can 100% back fire, like Fenugreek for an example, which has anti viral properties, and is said to help asthma, as it has a side effect it can make asthma worse, and the last side effect you need with a bad case of Pneumonia is a side effect making it worse, particularly if you can only tax your system so much with pills and the sort to begin with. As with Peppermint, sure in small doses it could be helpful, maybe, but here’s way I say maybe, because somehow peppermint oil relaxes the throat (which I don’t know how it does, because it seems to generally spur things more than calm them down) and the last thing you need is too much peppermint oil relaxing your lung muscles when you are already struggling for air. Now back to Niacin, it also would double as an amazing delivery system for Anti-Virals and other treatments because it spurs blood flow to the most extreme tiny ends of our spider webs of veins, and that’s what made me dig into Niacin last night, but I was amazed to understand it is a medical treatment for Pneumonia not because of the Blood Flow it 100% conduces and the better oxygen that would spur in that case (also looking into as a documented delivery system), but that it somehow via chemicals reduces the expression of Cytokine and the Deadly Cytokine Storm while also helping against Sepsis! Niacin and or B3 maybe simple, but it appears to be a crucial Treatment for Covid-19 at certain stages and also should be an amazing delivery system for Anti-Virials and other Treatments by spurring the blood (what a Niacin Flush is) to the tiny Blood Vessels in the Lungs those Anti-Virials and Treatments need to get to.

    Spem Successus Alit
    Randy G Ross of New Haven and New Hampshire

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/20975550/?fbclid=IwAR0JItxyd0fQR_pdzhrMQrVKorn9n83bDoKT_BrgvFdAXSAZN0wTKQaLCqI

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 3:51pm

    #59

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 844

    What????

    Watching the News Conference.

    Well we are the most prepared country in the world!

    But, but, but we don’t test people for  the virus so what are we ready for?

    I am confused?

     

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 4:09pm

    #60
    Matties

    Matties

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 30 2020

    Posts: 160

    Prepared ?

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 4:14pm

    Reply to #59

    Montana Native

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 17 2009

    Posts: 110

    News conference

    I decided to watch the conference today too. It’s just a big “don’t worry, this is under control”. We are the best, best prepared, smartest…etc. Great reminder as to why I rarely watch politicians speak. So well under control….lol.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 4:15pm

    Reply to #59
    kunga

    kunga

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 251

    Press conference

    President is totally betting this virus will die in the summer.  If it does not, November will be a blood bath.  Everyone here knows we don’t have the tests, the equipment or hospital beds if this disease gets going here.  I think all this rose colored glasses rhetoric is going to make people sloppy and disinterested in taking precautions to protect themselves and the community.  If my public health department is the one in charge, I am better off prepping and staying home.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 4:29pm

    Reply to #58
    ao

    ao

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Feb 04 2009

    Posts: 1243

    that's interesting about the niacin

    Just a suggestion here.  You may want to consider using a few more periods.  It’d make your potentially valuable comment more readable.  Also, for the sake of accuracy, there are no such things as lung muscles.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 4:31pm

    Reply to #56
    kunga

    kunga

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 251

    Woo-woo reply to "Tinctures"

    Hi, Tina,

    Start your tincture at the new moon, (now.)  If you have a dark, cool, kitchen cupboard you use several times a day, like the dish storage, put the tincture jar there.  Every time you open the dish cupboard, give the jar a twirl mix.  Tincture should be done in two weeks at the full moon.  Have fun! 🐱🐱

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 4:56pm

    Reply to #3
    VTGothic

    VTGothic

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 05 2020

    Posts: 59

    Voila!

    IMO, it’s not about minerals. The US is both way back on the outbreak curve compared to China, and not testing anyone, so of course it looks like nothing’s happening here. Our government’s figures cannot be trusted; Kudlow’s claim that we’ve got it “locked down” is pure absurdity. As Chris’ meme from a couple days ago put it: you can’t have a pandemic if you don’t measure it.

    Voila! Nothing to see here. Until there is.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 5:38pm

    Reply to #14
    Ision

    Ision

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 07 2020

    Posts: 81

    Virus Infection is not exclusive to only one virus.

    The answer is “YES” you can have several viral infections and bacterial infections at the same time…and you can be “cured” and then infected again.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 5:43pm

    #61
    Nairobi

    Nairobi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 05 2020

    Posts: 289

    The clever girl at Subway Restaurant

    So I went out and bought a Sub Sandwich (mmm…yum yum) and I was telling the cutie behind the counter that my biggest worry wasn’t really the virus particles in the air. It was my fear of having to touch the damned door handle to get into her shop.

    And she said she already figured that out.

    In the sandwhich shops the workers use cheap plastic gloves to make customers food and then they just throw them out between sandwiches. She said she won’t touch any door, especially the restroom, without having a pair on. Plus they are dirt cheap.

    So I checked them out on Amazon.

    And she steered me right. A box of 500 food service gloves cost less than 15 dollars including delivery. That is less than 3 cents per glove.

    Hmm I thought. My life is worth 3 cents per door. So I ordered some. Now if I could only turn back the clock 40 years and ask that gal for a date.

    LOL!!!

    https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07JYLF5TV?tag=duc12-20&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 5:58pm

    Reply to #32
    Ision

    Ision

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 07 2020

    Posts: 81

    The Answer Is: Antibody Dependent Enhancement, or ADE.

    The SARS-CoV-2 virus can be successfully attacked and destroyed by FRESH, fully-neutralizing, antibodies, which are targeted at it.  However, after the FIRST infection is defeated, the levels of the antibody targeting it drops, and the existing antibodies AGE and begin to lose their capability to kill the targeted virus.  Old antibodies may perform to some degree…and these we call “Sub-Neutralizing Antibodies,”  while others will lose ALL their ability to neutralized the virus, and we call these “NON-Neutralizing Antibodies.”

    The second time the SARS-CoV-2 virus infects, they will be “attacked” by SUB & NON Neutralizing Antibodies, which will attach themselves to the virus..but not be able to kill it.  The virus then is able to take over the weak antibodies and use the antibody’s own receptor key protein to access the Fc-Receptor-Expressing-Cells of the immune system to gain entry to those cells for reproduction.  In effect, the weak antibodies act as a “guide” to the invading virus..and act to broaden the pathways into the body’s cells…increasing the ability to the pathogen to infect and multiply…quicker than the body can produce new and fresh antibodies to fight it, while killing the very cells needed to produce them.

    You can have a great immune system and get over the first infection easily, then re-infect yourself…but, this time the invading virus is greeted by antibodies, which will allow the virus to kill you, instead of killing the virus.

    So, if you take a vaccine, which gooses your immune system to make targeted antibodies, well in advance of the actual infection…some of those antibodies will have aged, become sub and non neutralizing…and INCREASE the severity of the pathogen on its FIRST actual introduction to you.

    Now, you may understand the complexity of developing a vaccine for this pathogen, which will actually work…and not act to enhance the severity of COVID-19.

     

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 6:03pm

    Reply to #32
    karenf

    karenf

    Status: Member

    Joined: Oct 02 2010

    Posts: 56

    Thanks Ision

    Thanks for taking the time to explain that.  Fascinating and scary!

    Karen

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 6:09pm

    Reply to #51
    Grayman

    Grayman

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 11 2020

    Posts: 27

    Homemade Bleach

    Chlorine bleach works on this virus. But chlorine deteriorates in storage. It’s half life is about a year so 3% chlorine bleach is only at 1.5% strength after 12 months etc, etc. Therefore, plan to make your own bleach when supplies are short because you can’t really store masses of it forever. To do that, buy calcium hyperchlorite (from a swimming pool supply shop or Walmart) in powder or granule form and mix it up as needed later on. Don’t use sodium hyperchlorite – its hard to find and dangerous to store. A bucket of cal-hyperchl pool powder costs about $40 and will not only bleach things, but in solution and in very small doses can also sterilize water – up to 10,000 gallons in fact.
    Other disinfectants are isopropyl alcohol (rubbing alcohol) or hydrogen peroxide. The most convenient is alcohol at 65-70% concentration but it’s expensive. Peroxide is the next best at 3% concentration and it’s cheaper, but chlorine is fine and it’s dirt cheap and can be used in bulk to disinfect clothes, boots, people, equipment, dirty pet paws etc. My wife has 20 litre drums of commercial strength hydrogen peroxide (15%) and she also makes her own alcohol spray hand sanitiser and bleach. It’s not hard.
    You can avoid having to pay a fortune for everything and also to avoid having to scavenge and to run the risk of infection at malls, shops and markets.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 6:14pm

    Reply to #43
    Ision

    Ision

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 07 2020

    Posts: 81

    UV Light To Kill SARS-CoV-2 and Disinfect Masks and Other Items.

    UV light, of sufficient wattage, will kill pathogens effectively and quickly.  The key is to use the proper UV light source, which should use bulbs with 36, or more, Watts.

    The exterior of a protective mask will be where the virus will manifest.  So, place the mask under the direct and powerful UV light with the exterior facing it.  The UV light will kill pathogens the light reaches almost instantly.  Turning the object being sterilized about under the light will allow the light to find all of its surfaces.

    Such a light should be respected as it can harm you too.  The fastest, cheapest, most efficient way to kill pathogens on objects and in the air itself…

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 6:39pm

    Reply to #51
    Nairobi

    Nairobi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 05 2020

    Posts: 289

    Home made bleach is an excellent idea

    Thanks Grayman! I did not know that. Its now added to my list. I found a few easy recipes on line. It’s like 5 minutes effort to make a batch to sterilize a tank of drinking water.

    And it’s the right price.

    One thing about prepping that’s often bothered me is that some of the solutions to our problems are so expensive they really become impractical for ordinary people.

    The idea is to match low costs, local availability and quality that is approximately equal to store bought stuff.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 7:09pm

    #62
    Alexis

    Alexis

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 26 2020

    Posts: 66

    Asymptomatic aka symptomatic via CT

    -read A journal article yesterday of an 81 patients, 4 cohorts ranging from asymptomatic  testing obviously symptomatic. All received ct scans and lab work. cohort 2-4 (symptomatic) all had symptoms you would expect ranging from low grade fever (100.4), shortness of breath, low o2 sats, cough, diarrhea etc nothing new to expect. However, cohort 1: the asymptomatic cohort, some had lymphocytopenia and all had pneumonia infiltrates (I think just mild, one sided from what I recall). So, asymptomatic patients are actually symptomatic via CT or maybe labs. I remember in January one of the pirated videos to escape this lady was saying she couldn’t receive  treatment In China unless all 3 of her tests were positive: ct scan, swab and lab work. I couldn’t ever figure what labs but now I realize it’s the lymphocytes. This has been mentioned several times as an odd phenomenon for covid19 specifically, so take note. If you get sick, and you get tested And maybe come back negative on whatever test they eventually get. Request a “CBC with differential.” Not just a plain CBC. Very easy test to get done. Also, you can get this done but paying cash at many labs if you want to know but avoid main hospitals or doc offices. You could then maybe get your results and call a telemed doc. Of course if your o2 sats are <93 that would indicate you need hospital care so forgo waiting on labs. In relearning lymphocytopenia, it appears this is a common factor of  HIV, explicitly the cd4 cells. Leads me to understand why they are using hiv drugs now.  I’m going to consult my health diagnosis/nutrition book to see what the recommendations are for hiv, may have cd4 specifics. will report back. excerpt from article: “In conclusion, COVID-19 pneumonia tends to manifest on lung CT scans as bilateral, subpleural, ground-glass opacities with air bronchograms, ill-defined margins, and a slight predominance in the right lower lobe. Abnormal lung CT findings can be present even in asymptomatic patients, and lesions can rapidly evolve into a diffuse ground-glass opacity predominance or consolidation pattern within 1–3 weeks after onset of symptoms, peaking at around 2 weeks after onset. Old age, male sex, underlying comorbidities and progressive radiographic deterioration on follow-up CT might be risk factors for poor prognosis in patients with COVID-19 pneumonia.” https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30086-4/fulltext#sec1

    -another finding, this virus seems to like the “right lower lobe,” which there is actually a syndrome with this name and children (mine included) can have a mixed picture of asthma plug  vs pneumonia in that particular lobe when they get sick so just something to note if you are listening to breath sounds or doing percussive techniques.

    – nursing consideration: typically in the hospital with respiratory illness, the patient will be given a spirometer. It helps ensure the patient is moving air in an out as a measure but it’s also good to keep things moving if that makes sense. I’m going to buy some to have to add to our non-pharm stash of things to use.

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  • Wed, Feb 26, 2020 - 10:35pm

    Reply to #32
    SteveW

    SteveW

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jan 21 2010

    Posts: 156

    Antibody dependent enhancement

    I think all the talk about vaccines is because the public associates vaccines with flu. I think a better chance for effective treatment lies with drugs and/or soluble ACE2. Hopefully some of the Chinese trials will give an early success.

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  • Thu, Feb 27, 2020 - 4:57am

    Reply to #46
    km64

    km64

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 77

    So, what this seems to be indicating is a lot of wasted tests. A better protocol is needed for determining who to test, otherwise they’re just wasting resources.

    Number of tests and positivity rate for Covid-19 as of today

    • UK: 7,132 concluded tests, of which 13 positive (0.2% positivity rate). [source]

    • Italy: 9,462 tests, of which 458 positive (4.8% positivity rate), awaiting results: unknown. [source]

    • France: 762 tests, of which 17 positive (2.2% positivity rate), 179 awaiting results. [source]

    • Austria: 321 tests, of which 2 positive (0.6% positivity rate), awaiting results: unknown. [source]

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  • Thu, Feb 27, 2020 - 8:57am

    Reply to #43

    KugsCheese

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jan 01 2010

    Posts: 893

    Re: Yes You Can Reuse Masks

    Bad link.

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  • Thu, Feb 27, 2020 - 9:23am

    Reply to #1
    wotthecurtains

    wotthecurtains

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 27 2020

    Posts: 10

    P95 or P100 mask?

    First time caller.   So glad to get a chance to support Chris and his work (it’s been a long time of freeloading off Chris’s media appearances and I just think of all the commentators out there he is the most responsible and reasoned in his statements of anyone).

     

    Anyway, the N95 masks are as sold out in my area as anywhere but I notice the hardware stores have tons of painters respirators available.  They have ratings like P95 and P100.

     

    It happens that Ive wanted to buy one for a while anyway, but I’m wondering if there is any sense putting it on for virus protection as well.   These things seem better sealed by design anyway.

     

    I don’t see much mention of them here which makes me think Ive got the wrong idea.  But other websites like this make it sound like N R and P are just ratings related to oil particles and length of life.

     

    https://www.majorsafety.com/blogs/news/whats-the-difference-between-an-n95-and-r95-respirator

     

    Thanks so much for any feedback.

     

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  • Thu, Feb 27, 2020 - 10:13am

    Reply to #1

    dtrammel

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 698

    Respirators Are An Option, Watch Your Filter Choice Though

    N, R and P stand for the type of chemicals and solvents they filter. 95 and 100 stand for the percent of the contaminate they filter out.

    Respirators are an option, though they are expensive. Most are offered with the bigger oblong canister which are rated for acids/oil vapors/ solvents/ along with organic particles. Doing a little reading I came to the conclusion that for this virus we can probably get away with the small round pad filters like these. They use those for mold removal, so I’m guessing they will work with this virus.

    (fingers crossed)

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KYX8JBU/

    Those are a lot cheaper.

    I ordered a couple of respirators, just the mask without filters, last week from Amazon but I’m beginning to think the seller shafted me. Problems with their fulfillment are being talked about in their reviews. No tracking info on my order either. Also bought 9 pairs of the particle filters from another company, those just showed up.

    I’m going to wait til the tomorrow and if I don’t have any news I’m going to pick up two respirators.

    To clarify, I’ve got N95 paper masks as my main public protection for day to day, but will use the respirator if I get into a situation where I’m dealing with a highly infectious environment, like treating someone ill or removing a dead body.

    If I get it myself, then I’m going to wear on of the cheaper surgical masks to prevent my coughs from spreading it, and save the N95 masks for after I’m well.

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  • Thu, Feb 27, 2020 - 10:19am

    Reply to #1
    mch

    mch

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 09 2020

    Posts: 11

    Half face respirators with P100 filters

    I just bought one of these with some extra filters:

    3M 6000 Series Reusable Half Face Respirator with 3M 2097 P100 Particulate Filters

    the product description states:

      • Use for welding, lead and asbestos abatement, silica and concrete dust, and general particulate protection.
      • A reusable alternative to the 3M 8210 Disposable N95 Respirators in reducing exposure to airborne hazards, including bioaerosols.
    • Half-face respirator can be disassembled, cleaned and reused easily.
    • Includes reclosable storage bag. Extending use and saving even more.
    • Very light-weight and features easy to adjust head straps.
    • Choose Small, Medium, or Large Half Face Respirator Mask. Most people will fit the Medium; you’ll know if you need the small or large based on past experience.

    cost was ~$25 last weekend, but I see that it has gone up to $33 today at the place I ordered if from.

    I’ve used half face respirators in a laboratory setting (to avoid arsenic dust exposure) for many years, and believe you can get a much better fit than with common N95 masks. You can perform a negative and positive pressure test to see if you have a good fit and adjust the straps to get a good fit.

    It seems to me the N95 masks should be used if you are sick and want to lower the chance of infecting other people, but for preventing exposure to yourself, a half face respirator is a better solution. Remember to wear eye protection too!

    hopefully, I won’t need it for virus protection, but can always use it for painting/demolition projects.

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  • Thu, Feb 27, 2020 - 11:18am

    Reply to #1
    wotthecurtains

    wotthecurtains

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 27 2020

    Posts: 10

    hopefully, I won’t need it for virus protection, but can always use it for painting/demolition projects.

    Thanks.  Im in the same boat.  Ive been meaning to grab some painting respirators for a while now anyway and its great to know they could be useful otherwise

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  • Thu, Feb 27, 2020 - 7:10pm

    Reply to #50
    Hugh

    Hugh

    Status: Member

    Joined: May 18 2011

    Posts: 7

    ??

    https://www.fishchemical.com/Products-CHLOROQUINE-PHOSPHATE-1-KILO-22937.Item.html

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  • Fri, Feb 28, 2020 - 4:32am

    Reply to #48
    Drjohn

    Drjohn

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 22 2011

    Posts: 2

    Braces

    Laura, I’m an orthodontist. Talk to the Dr, it does depend. Unlike another comment, there are some wires that have activation built in that could be devastating if left for a year, but that’s only a few. Running the risk of cavities is the greatest, as long as you can take care of broken braces and wires, etc. Rarely does something break, get injested/inhaled and needs medical attention, but it does happen.

    All of these things are going through my mind, in addition to when do I “take a month or two off”, the impact of which will be devastating, but we’re all going to have to deal with that. Thinking about Chris’ “red line”.

    And, I’m thankful that the majority of my patients are Invisalign, because there aren’t emergencies and a self imposed “holding pattern” is much easier. Coincidentally, in the past 18 mos we’ve started remote monitoring (app, smartphone, software) so I can continue to treat most of my patients from home……..but I still have big problems to consider.

    John

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