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    The Coronavirus Is A Nightmare For The Global Economy

    Trade is already being crippled. And there's no relief in sight.
    by Adam Taggart

    Saturday, February 8, 2020, 7:08 AM

As China has now placed hundreds of millions of its citizens under quarantine, its economy is grinding to a halt.

Workers can’t leave their homes. Factories are idle. Most (if not all) of China’s ports are no longer shipping. International flights are increasingly banned from the country.

When the world’s #2 economy hangs up a big “CLOSED” sign, that’s going to result in a major negative impact on global trade.

As the manufacturing powerhouse to the world, you’ll be challenged to think of ANY industry that won’t experience serious supply chain interruptions and shortages from China’s woes. For instance, did you know China makes the vast majority of our prescription pharmaceuticals?

A MASSIVE hit to the global economy will directly result from the damage the Wuhan coronavirus is currently doing. And it may get worse, a lot worse.

So ignore today’s ridiculous all-time high stock prices. They can’t last in the face of what’s coming.

Be sure to stay up-to-date on Peak Prosperity’s ongoing full coverage of the coronavirus outbreak by visiting here.

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92 Comments

  • Sat, Feb 08, 2020 - 7:22am

    #1

    Adam Taggart

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: May 25 2009

    Posts: 5916

    36

    We're Alive!

    To the many worried folks who have reached out via email, social media, and in the site comments -- Chris and I are well.

    You're kind to be so concerned for us.

    But don't worry! We're still here and busier than ever following & synthesizing the coronavirus developments and then distilling out the insights we think are most important for you to know about.

    We're juggling this with a number of other important PP projects, which -- I won't lie -- is making getting time to sleep (or shower) more than a small challenge.

    So don't worry too much if we're a little tardy with a new post. It means we're making progress on those other PP improvements (one example: optimizing website stability and speed, given the recent spike in traffic to the PP.com). Or that we're investing in a little shut-eye so that we can keep up this crazy pace.

    You have our commitment that we'll remain glued here, offering continued coverage of the pandemic threat until we calculate it's no longer a material public health emergency.

    Which we truly hope happens as soon as possible.

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  • Sat, Feb 08, 2020 - 7:27am

    Copper’s Hu-mom

    Copper’s Hu-mom

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 01 2020

    Posts: 42

    14

    Stay well!

    Thanks for this update.  You guys are carrying a heavy load keeping all the rest of us informed.  I appreciate you. Take time to take care!! Best always.

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  • Sat, Feb 08, 2020 - 8:24am

    #3
    cmquigley89

    cmquigley89

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 05 2020

    Posts: 2

    1

    Bodies burning?

    Not sure how valid this is, and it may have been posted on one of the other threads prior. Seems relevant and very possible. I am trying to procure the original link.

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  • Sat, Feb 08, 2020 - 8:41am

    #4

    saxplayer00o1

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jul 30 2009

    Posts: 3134

    0

    34,958 of which 6,106 in severe condition Deaths: 724 Recovered: 2,411

    34,958 of which 6,106 in severe condition Deaths: 724
    Recovered:

    2,411

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  • Sat, Feb 08, 2020 - 8:44am

    #5

    saxplayer00o1

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jul 30 2009

    Posts: 3134

    1

    wuflu.live shows Confirmed 35030 Deaths726 Recovered 2403

    https://wuflu.live/

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  • Sat, Feb 08, 2020 - 8:48am

    #6
    MarkM

    MarkM

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jul 22 2008

    Posts: 421

    9

    Nail meet hammer

    Adam, in my opinion, you hit this right on the head. How this can be anything other than devastating for the global economy is beyond me. I am just amazed at my family and friends that want to say that they don't feel threatened by the virus (I think to myself, just wait) and have not given a thought to the worldwide economic and supply implications.

    To me, that image in another thread of the bus driver without even a mask sitting next to someone in appearing to be in full gear says it all.

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  • Sat, Feb 08, 2020 - 8:55am

    #7
    Mr Curious

    Mr Curious

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 78

    0

    Is there only one sequence

    When considering various man made virus possibilities, is there only a single sequence that everyone is analyzing? For example, the retracted Indian paper discussed 4 likely short inserts and Dr. James Lyons Weiler pointed out a different type of insert with high homology to pShuttle vector technology and SARS spike protein. I'm wondering how the two groups can look at the exact same sequence and find such markedly different anomalies? Is this like some kind of weird Rorschach test for geneticists where you find what think you'll find?

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  • Sat, Feb 08, 2020 - 9:10am

    #8
    Grover

    Grover

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Feb 15 2011

    Posts: 782

    13

    Dangerous People!

    Chris, You and Adam are dangerous people! Your Wikipedia page has already been deleted. Will the tech giants try to stifle your speech further? YouTube is owned by Google. Will they try to curtail your platform? Have you considered other options? As long as they tolerate your message, you should continue using their services; however, once the plug is pulled, you'll not have that option anymore. Brighteon.com doesn't censure material. I'd recommend investigating this source - just in case.

    Also, Google isn't the only search engine out there. There are many others that do a great job. I like DuckDuckGo.com because they don't track me! I still use Google Earth, but I try to limit my exposure to Google as much as possible.

    Just my 2 cents,

    Grover

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  • Sat, Feb 08, 2020 - 9:21am

    #9

    Wendy S. Delmater

    Status: Diamond Member

    Joined: Dec 13 2009

    Posts: 1434

    0

    Coronavirus Rescue Flights

    I found this article to be of interest.  It bogs down a bit with a--for me--in a too-technical discussion of various types of aircraft, but you can skim over that part.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hXwyTppCg8&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR3ClIbcN0tLUbnaJPUC0ZBQBVEyI4OLKiHIqAntqPpt7zu5IpF-l9_aqwU

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  • Sat, Feb 08, 2020 - 9:29am

    #10

    saxplayer00o1

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jul 30 2009

    Posts: 3134

    6

    Death rate in Wuhan climbs to 4.9%...Death penalty for disrupting epidemic control work

    Death rate in Wuhan climbs to 4.9%
    Again, contradicting the numbers and the official government dictated 2.1 percent mortality rate, she said the death rate in Hubei Province is 3.1 percent. She then added that Wuhan had the highest mortality rate in the province at 4.9 percent, and claimed the rate of death in the rest of the province had dropped by 0.16 percent.

    https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3873016

    ================================
    Critics Say China Has Suppressed And Censored Information In Coronavirus Outbreak
    China's state censors have clamped down this week on digital items related to the outbreak of a new coronavirus, removing local news reports that expose the dire circumstances in the city of Wuhan, epicenter of the outbreak, and scrubbing social media platforms of posts from Wuhan residents who say they are ill and desperate for medical care and supplies.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/02/08/803766743/critics-say-china-has-suppressed-and-censored-information-in-coronavirus-outbrea

    ===========================
    Concerns mount about coronavirus spreading in hospitals, study suggests

    The study, published in the medical journal JAMA on Friday, involved analyzing data on 138 patients hospitalized with novel coronavirus-infected pneumonia in Wuhan, China. The data showed that hospital-related transmissions of the virus were suspected in about 41% of the patients.
    Specifically, 40 health care workers in the study and 17 patients who were already hospitalized for other reasons were presumed to have been infected with the novel coronavirus in the hospital, the data showed, also revealing that 26% of all the patients were admitted to an intensive care unit and 4.3% died.
    ======================================
    The coronavirus is already hurting the world economy. Here's why it could get really scary
    "A severe pandemic would resemble a global war in its sudden, profound, and widespread impact," the World Bank assessed in a report on pandemics from 2013. (The Wuhan coronavirus has not been declared a pandemic by the World Health Organization.)
    ====================================
    ‘Crisis mode’: Coronavirus disrupts the heart of electronics manufacturing in China

    How delays could cascade

    The supply chain has already been disrupted with the week-long delay to factories re-opening, said Sherina Kamal, risk analyst at Resillience 360, a logistics risk-management company backed by DHL.

    “The ripple effect coming from one region in China is completely unprecedented,” Kamal said. “We’ve never seen anything like this.”

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/08/coronavirus-effect-on-manufacturing-could-ripple-through-holidays.html

    ==========================
    'Patients are on edge': Coronavirus fears trigger a run on masks, gloves and other gear

    At Wolkar Pharmacy in Baxter Springs, Kansas, pharmacist Brian Caswell can’t keep enough respiratory masks on his shelves.

    “We’ve had families come in and buy everything we’ve had,” Caswell said. “Patients are on edge, and they’re preparing.”

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/02/07/coronavirus-fears-trigger-run-masks-gloves-and-other-gear/4692571002/

    =========================

    Over 400 Companies Have Warned Of The Impact Coronavirus Could Have On First Quarter Earnings

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/sergeiklebnikov/2020/02/07/over-400-companies-have-warned-of-the-impact-coronavirus-could-have-on-first-quarter-earnings/#98898a62bb84

    =====================
    France to close two schools near ski resort after coronavirus cases
    PARIS (Reuters) - Two schools near a French ski resort where five Britons have been diagnosed with the new coronavirus will be shut next week as authorities try to determine with whom those infected had been in contact, a regional health official said.

    Eleven Britons, including the five who tested positive for the virus, are being examined in local hospitals.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-health-france-schools/france-to-close-two-schools-near-ski-resort-after-coronavirus-cases-idUSKBN2020II

    ==========================
    Coronavirus has spurred 'unprecedented' wave of US flight cancellations, analyst says
    Data from the U.S. Department of Transportation suggests that cancelled flights between U.S. cities and China and Hong Kong are costing the airlines between $313,000 to $1.1 million for each day those flights are cancelled, depending on the carrier.

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/us-based-airlines-hit-by-coronavirus-175640345.html

    ======================
    Deadliest day for coronavirus as mainland China records 86 fatalities
    To stop the virus from spreading further, Beijing has taken the unprecedented step of trying to quarantine entire cities in Hubei. About 60 million people are under various travel restrictions, as roads are blocked, train stations closed and flights canceled.

    The Chinese government has issued new regulations to severely punish people who disrupt the epidemic control work. Those who violate the rules will be subject to speedy arrests and sentences, and even the death penalty.

    https://www.abc57.com/news/deadliest-day-for-coronavirus-as-mainland-china-records-86-fatalities

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  • Sat, Feb 08, 2020 - 10:13am

    #11

    saxplayer00o1

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jul 30 2009

    Posts: 3134

    5

    I love my happy music before my trip to the roach motel

    Everything is so happy here, with the happy headline: "Wuhan combs communities to leave no coronavirus patient unattended". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P11Ab92I4_c

    Notice below the video that Xinhua is funded by the Chines Government

    =================================

    Oh no! What happened to the happy music? Here they come to take me away.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNeTWX7WgwA

    ==============

    Lets see...Do we end up here? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lSjn3VC7Kw

    Maybe here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36xk8iPQ4p8

    ==================

    No free speech unless it's happy speech:
    China tightens censorship on coronavirus as authorities boost propaganda
    The Cyberspace Administration of China (CAC)

    announced on Wednesday

    that it punished a range of platforms and publishing accounts. CAC said it “supervised and guided” companies that include Sina, Tencent and Bytedance -- the owners of some of the country’s most popular social platforms (Weibo, WeChat and Douyin/TikTok respectively). It also said it punished a number of accounts for “independently reporting against regulations” and spreading false information, but didn’t specify how.

    https://www.scmp.com/tech/apps-social/article/3049583/china-tightens-censorship-coronavirus-authorities-boost-propaganda

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  • Sat, Feb 08, 2020 - 10:37am

    #12
    vshelford

    vshelford

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 13 2014

    Posts: 165

    3

    Gratitude, and a question

    Chris and Adam - you guys are the best. We SO appreciate what you are doing, and sharing with all of us. A question here that you may have dealt with and I didn't catch it, but Chris said that the quarantined ship would give us good data. I'm wondering if that has to be qualified with the petrie dish effect, in that the infection rate is likely to be much higher among people who can't get away from each other or from their common restricted environment? Also, do they have more or less of medical equipment to deal with infections as they arise, and hazmat clothing for the caregivers?

    And on another note, the lock-down of China is just the largest and most visible shock to the global supply chain.  The fires in California have all but disappeared down the memory hole, and even Australia's fires are getting less attention, but apart from the natural and human tragedies involved, these are also massive blows to the supply chain.  I regularly buy certain dried fruits from a bulk supplier - can't get them now, on hold indefinitely - fires in California.  Just a small example.

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  • Sat, Feb 08, 2020 - 10:38am

    #13

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 2437

    15

    Charles Firmly Believes We Are Being Lied To Massively--Trust Destroyed

    The Pandemic Isn't Ending, It's Just the Beginning of Global Disorder and Depression

    Charles Hugh Smith.  Of Two Minds  [abbreviated slightly]

    When you've been lied to, you've been betrayed. Betrayal has consequences.
    Unsurprisingly, denying the pandemic is unstoppable and consequential is the order of the day: authorities everywhere are terrified these realities might leak through all their oh-so-obviously desperate firewalls and filters. Why are they terrified? Because they know the entire global economy, including the linchpin Chinese and U.S. economies, was extremely fragile before the pandemic arose: why else the panic-stimulus and panic-repo policies of the Federal Reserve and the People's Bank of China in the pre-pandemic months of Q4 2019?
    And so everything is covered up, and if that doesn't work, then outright denial is the default policy. The number of cases globally is absurdly understated, the number of deaths in China is absurdly under-reported, and so on.
    But the biggest denial campaign is aimed at masking the fragility of the global economy, as the only thing keeping the rickety, speculative-bubble, insolvent global economy from imploding is the belief and confidence of the masses that everything is going swimmingly, so keep on borrowing, borrowing, borrowing, buying, buying, buying and speculating, speculating, speculating.
    While the real-world battle to limit the spread of the virus in China gets the headlines, the battle inside your head to maintain your confidence in the system is just as important....
    The key dynamic in recessions and depressions is confidence: confidence that the condo you buy today will be worth a lot more tomorrow, the business investment you make today will generate higher profits tomorrow, your job benefits will increase tomorrow, your house value will rise tomorrow, and so on.
    Once confidence in ever-higher wages, benefits, sales, profits and speculative gains withers, all bets are off.   The loss of confidence is akin to a loss of faith or loss of credibility: none of these can be restored overnight.
    Once your trust in authorities has been shattered by gross incompetence, authoritarian suppression and a laughably unbelievable tsunami of lies, you don't wake up the next morning with your trust in bogus statistics and reassurances fully restored.
    Confidence [is] replaced by uncertainty, anxiety and fear.
    The tragic irony is that Chinese authorities hid the epidemic to save political face, but their increasingly transparent lies and desperation are destroying what little international credibility remained after their attempt to save political face blew up. Rather than saving face, they've lost the last shreds of credibility they still possessed.
    Here's how contagious viruses spread: a traveler who has the virus but doesn't yet have any symptoms rubs his nose beneath his mask and then takes the bus ticket and hands it to the driver. Then the traveler grabs the handrail in the bus, leaving viral particles. Later, in another bus station's bathroom, he lifts his mask because it's hot and uncomfortable and sneezes. Hundreds of other travelers pass through the bathroom within hours.
    With the loss of trust and faith comes disorder.

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  • Sat, Feb 08, 2020 - 12:36pm

    #14
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    2

    2020 US Census and nCoV

    The 2020 US Census results will shape democratic government representation and allocation of trillions of dollars in government resources, infrastructure development, and more for the next decade. US residents should be receiving info by mail in March, including on-line and mail-in options for completing the Census survey.

    The US Census will be in full swing by spring and summer. By then, US nCoV pandemic spread and severity should become apparent to all, with response systems established and perhaps strained to overwhelmed. The Census could be the US equivalent to the Chinese Lunar New Year as a catalyst for country-wide nCoV exposure and infection.

    I hope Census workers will be appropriately trained re: nCoV and equipped with PPE as they spread out across the country gathering data--and possibly spreading the virus--via person-to-person contact. (Will they also be "taking temperatures" as part of a public health service?) This will make them all the less welcome by many residents.

    I plan to complete my survey on-line or by mail and will be encouraging family and friends to do so as well.

    Some key dates to consider (source):

    Census workers will be out in force for three days (March 30 - April 1) to count the homeless "...people in shelters, at soup kitchens and mobile food vans, on the streets, and at non-sheltered, outdoor locations such as tent encampments."

    In April, Census workers will be visiting "...college students who live on campus, people living in senior centers, and others who live among large groups of people."

    May - July, Census workers will visit homes of non-respondents.

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  • Sat, Feb 08, 2020 - 1:06pm

    #15
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    0

    Food distribution, availability in locked-down Chinese cities

    Coronavirus: Chinese officials scrambling to keep food flowing to cities on lockdown

    https://globalnews.ca/news/6525244/china-coronavirus-quarantine-food/

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  • Sat, Feb 08, 2020 - 1:53pm

    #16
    Thetallestmanonearth

    Thetallestmanonearth

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 28 2013

    Posts: 330

    17

    Imports

    I sell chemicals for a living to various manufacturing sectors. A lot of global chemical production is in China. Before LNY I was getting quotes and email reply’s within 24 hours. Since then I have not received a single response to our inquiries. Other importers I know are reporting the same thing. Specifically, a partner in Wuhan and another outside of Shanghai have gone radio silent. The products we import go into everything from machine grease, metal working fluids, food preservatives, nylon, inks, paint, transportation lubricants etc. I can think of at least 3 products where there is zero production capacity outside of China anymore due to their scale and competitiveness. I’m sure there are many many more products across all industries where that is true. Remember too that in addition to their exports, there are also essentials they must import that are not reaching their population of 1.4 billion people. I don’t know how this plays out, but I know it will be a disruption like I’ve never seen in my career.  Hedge now before your neighbors notice.

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  • Sat, Feb 08, 2020 - 2:29pm

    #17
    David Allan

    David Allan

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Nov 15 2009

    Posts: 52

    9

    Why the economy is so important + the issue of recursion

    The global economy is not just important for financial reasons as Sandpuppy points out above. It is an integral part of our civilization. Just as a fabric thread is woven into a carpet so is the global economy a critical facet of  modern life.  So what we face is not just an economic disruption but potentially a civilizational collapse.  Coming to an understanding about the behaviour of complex systems and in particular the nature of tipping points was a key motivation for me to radically change lifestyle and move to a rural homestead back in 2011.

    The following is part of an article by David Korowicz written in 2014. It is titled Catastrophic Shocks Through Complex Socio-Economic Systems:
    A Pandemic Perspective andcan be downloaded free from his website https://www.korowiczhumansystems.com/publications

    To briefly summarize Korowicz explains why, beyond a certain threshold of impact, you can't necessarily restart the economy again after an epidemic runs its course

    7. Recovery & Recursion Failure
    ... once supply-chain failure starts to go
    critical, the removal of the primary cause does not allow the immediate resumption of socio-economic activity. Why?
    The disruption could have pushed companies into bankruptcy, and purchasing power in the economy would
    be lost as trade collapsed. Failures in critical infrastructure including payment might also occur. More generally there would be an intertwined supply and demand collapse.
    More broadly, if an economy was shattered, and its forward looking viability looked both precarious and uncertain one would expect a collapse in the value of a country’s currency. Rather than helping exports (which
    would be very little because the economy’s productive capacity had collapsed), it would hinder imports of
    emergency supplies and make debt in external currencies much more difficult to service. The economic damage and reduced economic prospects may then cause tightened credit conditions, spiraling bond yields and
    systemic bank failure.
    There are also issues that are most pertinent for more complex societies. We imagine that after a pandemic
    wave people are again available for work. But people cannot however become productive immediately because other inputs are also needed. But those inputs are stalled because they rely upon other inputs and so
    on. More broadly we may define Recursion failure as: “the inability of a complex economy to easily resume
    production and trade after a significant collapse because in a complex and interdependent economy, production and trade must resume in order for production and trade to resume”.
    Further even if a government wanted to rebuild, it may be too complex to orchestrate resumption from the
    top down. This is firstly because the economy has evolved by self-organization, nobody has ever had, nor
    could they have put its elements together in the first place. Secondly, even if it could be done, the systems of
    command, control and supply that might do it would be the very systems that had been undermined.
    Over time entropy would become an issue as engines rust, reagents become contaminated, and expected
    maintenance and repairs are left undone. This would all add to the cost and inputs needed for resumption. In
    a more complex society the degradation rate may be higher for thermodynamic reasons.
    Overall, we are saying the longer a socio-economic system spends in the critical regime, the more likely it is
    to undergo a complete systemic collapse and loss of basic function. In addition, the longer it spends in this
    state, the more difficult it may be to ever return to its pre-pandemic state.
    8
    This is a complex society’s equivalent of a heart attack. When a person has a heart attack, there is a brief
    period during which CPR can revive the person. But beyond a certain point when there has been cascading
    failure in co-dependent life support systems, the person cannot be revived. This means that the socio-economic system could be changed irretrievably and the job of society and government would be to both manage the crisis and plot a fundamentally different path.

     

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  • Sat, Feb 08, 2020 - 2:33pm

    #18
    Nairobi

    Nairobi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 05 2020

    Posts: 289

    2

    Vanishing Bats in Nairobi, Kenya

    This story I want to relate is one that belongs in the category of " I don't know if this information has any relationship to the Coronavirus research that was conducted in China" but it might be one small missing part of the puzzle so I will tell it here anyway.

    I am a Canadian who lived in Nairobi between September 2018 and November 2019. I was there full time for about 14 months in other words. I was domiciled in a State House Road compound near the University of Nairobi for most of my visit.

    When I first arrived there I was really impressed by how many fruit bats were active each evening and so  spent a lot of time observing them while I had my evening cigarettes. In my compound there was a towering 10 or 12 story tree that the Ethiopians call a Shola and these trees produce copious amounts of fruit that hang from the trunk and branches. I don't know what the Kenyans call that kind of tree but they have an enormous canopy and this one was buzzing with hundreds of bats every night as they feasted on the fruit.

    Sometime in February or March 2019 (I cannot recall the exact date and did not record it unfortunately) the bats abruptly disappeared. Not a few either. It was all of them vanishing (100%) over the course of a few nights except one solitary bat that returned each evening and chirped incessantly over her missing colony.

    So I began to ask questions of the locals thinking that maybe someone had blocked a chimney or attic in the neighborhood and trapped them in an attempt at extermination. Nobody knew anything and the local Kenyans I spoke to were dismissive and disinterested saying things like maybe they just flew away to another tree. Few were even aware that the colony existed or how busy it had been. But the fruit season had not ended and the tree was still brimming with food so I was pretty unsatisfied with the answers  received.

    So I looked at the local roof tops and could not see any blocked chimneys. But I also noticed that the neighboring trees also no longer had bat colonies. So this was not a problem on one single compound or just one tree but rather an neighborhood wide event. I remained there for another 10 months and in all that time the bats never returned ruling out the possibility that it was merely a migration of some sort that had taken place.

    And why does this matter? Well its only now after reading so much about Coronavirus research that I am starting to try and put two and two together and wondering out loud if those bats were not in fact captured for research and possibly even transported out of Kenya. I honestly do not know. But maybe someone else reading this post does have another piece of information that can connect the missing bats of Nairobi to a local cull of wildlife that were possibly used for virus research purposes.

    If anyone does know, by all means please speak up.

     

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  • Sat, Feb 08, 2020 - 2:41pm

    #19
    Michael Lipman

    Michael Lipman

    Status: Member

    Joined: Nov 02 2019

    Posts: 4

    2

    Foxconn factory impacts

    CORONAVIRUS OUTBREAK
    China blocks restart of Foxconn plants due to coronavirus: sources

    Move further disrupts production of Apple, Amazon and Huawei devices

    LAULY LI, COCO LIU and CHENG TING-FANG, Nikkei staff writersFEBRUARY 08, 2020 16:45 JST UPDATED ON FEBRUARY 09, 2020 01:26 JST
    This will have a huge impact on global supply chains.
    The market is providing a gift for those wanting to get out at bubble prices.
    Insiders know what’s coming too.

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  • Sat, Feb 08, 2020 - 2:42pm

    #20
    Matties

    Matties

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 30 2020

    Posts: 160

    3

    Maybe they went here

    Bats are protected under Queensland state law, limiting the ways the local government can respond to the infestation

    https://www.rte.ie/news/newslens/2020/0207/1113879-bats-town-australia/

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  • Sat, Feb 08, 2020 - 2:43pm

    MarkM

    MarkM

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jul 22 2008

    Posts: 421

    3

    David

    Thanks for the link. I will read this evening. These are exactly the kinds of thoughts that have been in my mind the past few days. I wonder if these days might be the last of "normal".

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  • Sat, Feb 08, 2020 - 2:45pm

    #22

    saxplayer00o1

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jul 30 2009

    Posts: 3134

    0

    37,132 of which 6,106 in severe condition Deaths: 806 Recovered: 2,411

    of which 6,106
    in severe condition
    Deaths:

    806
    Recovered:

    2,411

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  • Sat, Feb 08, 2020 - 2:54pm

    #23
    Michael Lipman

    Michael Lipman

    Status: Member

    Joined: Nov 02 2019

    Posts: 4

    0

    Jim Bianco an excellent FinTwit follow on nCov impacts

    https://twitter.com/biancoresearch/status/1226254545308803072?s=21

    https://www.biancoresearch.com/coronavirus-what-panic

     

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  • Sat, Feb 08, 2020 - 2:57pm

    #24
    Matties

    Matties

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 30 2020

    Posts: 160

    0

    You can't hide an epidemie

    Sorry, i live in Europe and i see no possibility to hide an epidemie. We saw in China that after running one month (December 2019) the rows in front the hospitals started to mount. I see none of that.

    I also believe that corona is rendered ineffective with higher temperatures. China is biding time with the isolation until warmer weather arrives.

    So the problems i see are mostly economically. Supply shortages will no doubt cause pain. And yes, one moment, sooner or later, the rotting financial system will go down. But timing is difficult.

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  • Sat, Feb 08, 2020 - 2:58pm

    #25
    daboll

    daboll

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 28 2020

    Posts: 2

    2

    Possibly how bad the Coronavirus might be...been in plain sight for a long time

    http://www.deagel.com/country/forecast.aspx

     

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  • Sat, Feb 08, 2020 - 4:15pm

    #26
    aggrivated

    aggrivated

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Sep 22 2010

    Posts: 469

    4

    The horse's heart and some history

    The intersections of disease and civilization change history's direction.

    My  15yo grandson asked me what I thought about the coronavirus outbreak and how it might affect us.  My analogy was that the world economy is a race horse and the horse just developed heart problems. If the horse stumbles and falls while running, then it may well not get back up to finish this race.

    History doesn't repeat, but it sure can harmonize.

    The great influenza of 1918 had a huge impact on the world just on the heels of WWI losses. I have yet to explore how that affected the direction of history. At this point I'm just thankful that all my grandparents survived it. Thank you Chris for that good interview with John Barry who wrote 'The Great Influenza'.

    Another disastrous disease that is often overlooked is the bubonic plague. Twenty five million people died from a flea spread bacterium. It was spread by shipping routes and ship rats. Rome, Persia and Byzantium lost so many people that they became much weaker and susceptible to the spread of Islam whose members camped in the wild and didn't use ships for travel.  During the summer of 542 the city of Constantinople lost 5000 citizens a day to the disease. A great book on this subject is 'Justinian's Flea' by William Rosen.

    None of us can know the future, but only head burying ostriches could think that this [maybe temporary] shutdown of China will have no affect on our daily lives.

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  • Sat, Feb 08, 2020 - 5:17pm

    #27
    pawch

    pawch

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2020

    Posts: 25

    6

    A novel therapy for a novel virus

    Thank you Adam and Chris

    I learned from you that nCoV binds to ACE II receptor sites in the lungs.

    So I did a little googling (see below) and ended up writing myself a prescription for Losartan (angiotensin converting enzyme blocker or ARB). I'm an older white male at greater risk.
    ARBs (angiotensin receptor blockers are meds that lower blood pressure) have been shown to markedly lower coronavirus fatality rates in mice.

    The virus latches onto angiotensin II receptor sites on the surface of the cells in the lung and then its RNA gains entry. The virus then replicates inside the cell, but inflammation is decreased as angiotensin II is blocked and not released. This is not inflammation related to fighting the virus.

    February's issue of Lancet is devoted to nCoV and one article describes nCoV as creating  a “cytokine storm”. Angiotensin II is a powerful pro inflammatory hormone that does just that.

    https://www.thelancet.com/coronavirus

    ARBs do not lower your immune reaction to the virus. It does however prolong the process (by decreasing the damage caused by angiotensin II mediated inflammation) providing time for the body to mobilize T and B cells in this effort, enabling recovery.

    The following are some helpful websites that address the role of ARBs.
    from Sept 2019

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/337129671_Influenza_pandemic_preparedness_A_special_challenge_for_India

    Notice the country from which all the below PubMed.gov articles originated

    https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Chang_Li3/publication/272078933_Angiotensin_II_receptor_blocker_as_a_novel_therapy_in_acute_lung_injury_induced_by_avian_influenza_A_H5N1_virus_infection_in_mouse/links/568bc76108ae8f6ec7522e78/Angiotensin-II-receptor-blocker-as-a-novel-therapy-in-acute-lung-injury-induced-by-avian-influenza-A-H5N1-virus-infection-in-mouse.pdf?origin=publication_detail

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25655897

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24800825

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25391767

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16001071

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  • Sat, Feb 08, 2020 - 5:45pm

    #28
    nigel

    nigel

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Apr 15 2009

    Posts: 123

    2

    Mapping

    Most developed states/nations track on a weekly/monthly basis existing flu cases, and the health departments publish this data online. For example the last 10 years of influenza data from my state can be found here:

    https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/Influenza/Pages/reports.aspx

    Now that data is not perfect, we want to know about a corona virus, not influenza, but what it does give us is data on the months for the largest amount of cases, and the regions in which get it more, so we have a rough template as to how it will spread. I can see an increase in cases in the colder months, and I see locations where it happens.

    I suggest you take some time find your state records for influenza and make your own growth map as to the possible outbreak of corona.

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  • Sat, Feb 08, 2020 - 5:56pm

    #29
    TraderOne

    TraderOne

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 2

    0

    Same Comment As Yesterday (Friday)

    Your comment dated Saturday, February 8 is the same as the one which was issued yesterday, Friday, February 7. Was this an error? Did you paste the wrong comment? You describe it at the beginning as being recorded on Friday, February 7, so I can only think this is a mistake.

    Thanks

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  • Sat, Feb 08, 2020 - 6:21pm

    #30

    Adam Taggart

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: May 25 2009

    Posts: 5916

    14

    Sulphur Dioxide Gas Bloom Detected In Wuhan, China

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  • Sat, Feb 08, 2020 - 6:41pm

    Yoxa

    Yoxa

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Dec 20 2011

    Posts: 316

    11

    Gas Bloom

    Of all the info shared around here in recent days, that image is the first one to make me weep.

    The pain it represents is beyond imagining.

    God help the people of China. God help us all.

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  • Sat, Feb 08, 2020 - 6:56pm

    #32
    Nate

    Nate

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 05 2009

    Posts: 466

    17

    it's different this time

    Not long ago peak prosperity old timers discussed investing in primary (vs secondary and tertiary) assets.  Last weekend the individual farming our property asked me what primary assets were worth without individuals to 'work' them.  Think about it. No one to farm farms. No roughnecks to put natural gas in the pipelines or liquid fuels in our vehicles. No one to move food to your grocery store. No renters for your real estate. Primary assets only have value in a functioning society.

    2019-nCoV has the potential to change the landscape. Thetallestmanonearth provided a really great post regarding the real world and shared sage advice: hedge now.

    Here's my take away:

    1) Masks, gloves, UV-lamps and elderberry are great deterrents, but I am assuming most of us will catch this bug and your age, general health, and genes will dictate your chances of survival (hospitals will be overwhelmed and not in the survival probability mix).

    2) Isolation for extended periods of time, from my perspective, offer the best chances of getting through this. If you are living in remote Wyoming, you have a great chance of ducking this pandemic. If you are in a large Blue city - good luck.

    3) Stop thinking of storing lots of dried-canned-frozen food. Start growing your food. Get off the food grid and grow your own.

    My gut says things will grind to a halt worldwide. We will no longer be thinking about shorting the market or the price of gold - it won't matter (for now). For the past decade Chris has talked (hammered) preparations for the individual. No more beta testing - this is the real deal.

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  • Sat, Feb 08, 2020 - 8:00pm

    #33
    Steve

    Steve

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 27 2009

    Posts: 183

    1

    Bitcoin just broke through the $10,000 barrier

    For those who are interested, Bitcoin just pushed through the $10K range.

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  • Sat, Feb 08, 2020 - 9:18pm

    ao

    ao

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Feb 04 2009

    Posts: 1329

    0

    Bitcoin, rhodium, hydrogen, and Kitco - end of thread hijack

    No thanks on the Bitcoin.  But rhodium's getting close to 10,000 at $9,500 and it's something tangible that you can actually hold in your hand.  Here may be one factor driving its price:

    "And just earlier this week, I shared another possible solution. Researchers at Ohio State University successfully used a rhodium molecule and sunlight to make hydrogen, opening up a new avenue for hydrogen production."

    But personally, I think rhodium is as overpriced as Bitcoin and I was happy to unload my rhodium at $8,600 per ounce to Kitco.  By the way, if I do any future precious metal sales, it will be through Kitco.  Their price for palladium and rhodium was fair, the sale and shipping process was very efficient, and I had a check in hand in a quicker period of time than any other PM dealers I've worked with in the past.

    The next post will be back to the nCoV.

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  • Sat, Feb 08, 2020 - 9:21pm

    #35
    ao

    ao

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Feb 04 2009

    Posts: 1329

    4

    do the math - possible 17% mortality rate

    https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-02-08-do-the-math-china-press-conference-admits-coronavirus-mortality-17-percent.html

     

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  • Sat, Feb 08, 2020 - 9:23pm

    #36
    ao

    ao

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Feb 04 2009

    Posts: 1329

    2

    Australia is masking up

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30064-3/fulltext

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  • Sat, Feb 08, 2020 - 9:39pm

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2188

    2

    bitcoin rally

    I believe the bitcoin rally is all about evading capital controls - first in China, and then worldwide.  Once the pandemic hits the third world, their economies will be hit the hardest, and their currencies will tank, and their governments will impose capital controls in order to stop the currency collapse.

    My theory anyway.  So big money is front-running the rush to get bitcoin in order to evade the coming capital control regime.

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 12:34am

    Nairobi

    Nairobi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 05 2020

    Posts: 289

    2

    Nairobi said:

    Thanks for that link AO. Why does it not surprise me. We have been watching the Chinese response to their domestic epidemic with growing alarm for the past month already and are only now acknowledging why the mobilization has been so extreme and overwhelming.

    They knew from the outset what had been unleashed prematurely in their own backyard and have gone into panic mode to put the disease back in the bottle.

    I do not doubt for a second that this illness was bioengineered to kill China's enemies and adversaries (that would be us) or as a means to depopulate parts of the world they covet for its resources (and that would be Africa).

    Why can we not just say what is obviously on all our minds? The Chinese military has sought to create a deadly weapon that would give it a battlefield advantage without having to fire a single shot. But they made a huge mistake by forgetting that bats fly and their creation would escape containment on wings.

    Live by the sword and die by the sword is the appropriate expression here. That power hungry Communist regime is indeed bent on global dominance and can never be trusted from today onward.

    Let's hope the Chinese people themselves take matters into their own hands and permanently end the pathetic dictatorship of Xi and his CCP before they bring anymore hardship on the rest of the planet.

    We are hardly out of the woods. Next winter it will be our turn in the West to battle this illness for better or for worse and we already know a vaccine will still not be ready by then.

    This was truly a crime against humanity.

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 4:32am

    #39
    mjames1

    mjames1

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 04 2020

    Posts: 1

    1

    mjames1 said:

    A Great video from a Professor in the UK.

    https://www.ccn.com/professor-says-coronavirus-infecting-50000-day-he-may-be-right/

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 4:54am

    #40
    MasterOfMyDomain

    MasterOfMyDomain

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 20 2011

    Posts: 18

    0

    Trying to insert screenshot into post and having problem

    I'm trying to post a screenshot and it's all blurry. The original is not and only 32kB so not over the 100kB limit. I've tried jpg and png, makes no difference.The height to width ratio is fixed too so that's not the problem.

    Anybody know what I'm doing wrong? Or maybe it just looks blurry to me? Thanks!

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 6:11am

    Barbara

    Barbara

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 15 2009

    Posts: 180

    2

    Census workers - they are a danger

    My PPE reduces my risk.  However, the outside of my ppe is a carrier.  You have virus.  I touch your doorknob and my ppe picks up virus. I touch the next door neighbor's door.  Leave a few virus.  . . .
    I think I'm more afraid of people in hazmat than I am those totally unprotected.

     

    Keeping hands clean is really hard when you have to move around outside.

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 6:33am

    yogmonster

    yogmonster

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 01 2013

    Posts: 48

    1

    yogmonster said:

    Couple of articles you might be interested in reading.

     

    https://www.unz.com/wwebb/bats-gene-editing-and-bioweapons-recent-darpa-experiments-raise-concerns-amid-coronavirus-outbreak/

     

    https://mailchi.mp/221e7cd13e7b/biological-weapons-a-useful-and-timely-factual-overview?e=006e3600ca

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 9:04am

    #43

    Wendy S. Delmater

    Status: Diamond Member

    Joined: Dec 13 2009

    Posts: 1434

    5

    Global Trade effects of Coronavirus in China

    Even if this pandemic does not sweep through the rest of the world, we're in for aftershocks in trade up to and including a black swan event.  Good article on this here:

    https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2020/02/07/curtis-ellis-the-coronavirus-exposes-the-true-cost-of-the-china-price/

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 9:10am

    sgrimmell

    sgrimmell

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 26 2020

    Posts: 1

    1

    Africa and South/Central America

    It's been a few weeks since this outbreak occurred and I'm thinking it's unusual that there are no infections in Africa and South/Central America.  Certainly there were Chinese interests and travelers to these areas too.   Is there anything in common wirth these areas that might signify why we have no information?  Hopefully it's not a cultural or lack of test kits issue.

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 9:25am

    #45

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1047

    4

    Africa and south/Central America

    Zerohedge has an article on Africa. The article said they didn't get test kits until the 7th of February.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/coronavirus-african-connection

    Its an assumption that there are no cases in Africa.  MSM not reporting any wont change the truth.

     

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 9:31am

    #46
    pat the rat

    pat the rat

    Status: Member

    Joined: Nov 01 2011

    Posts: 149

    0

    virus

    China is doing every thing thy can to fight this virus.

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 9:54am

    #47

    saxplayer00o1

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jul 30 2009

    Posts: 3134

    4

    ‘Definitely too late’ to stop spread of coronavirus, expert says

    Coronavirus updates: 14 Americans aboard quarantined cruise ship now confirmed to have coronavirus
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/new-coronavirus-updates-number-confirmed-cases-drops-disease-s-epicenter-n1133141

    ===========================
    ‘Definitely too late’ to stop spread of coronavirus, expert says
    The spread of the coronavirus is “definitely too late” to contain due to the millions of people who have now fled the hot zone of the health crisis, according to an expert.

    Some five million people have already left Wuhan, the epicenter of the outbreak — presenting challenges about how to tackle the epidemic

    https://nypost.com/2020/02/09/definitely-too-late-to-stop-spread-of-coronavirus-expert-says/

    ========================
    Hong Kong Is Showing Symptoms of a Failed State
    Grocery runs in Asia’s financial powerhouse have begun to remind me of shopping in Russia in the chaotic summer of 1998. You grab what you can find, and if there is a queue, you consider joining it. Surgical masks and sanitizer gel are bartered for; detergent shelves are bare. A run on toilet paper last week, after an online rumor, was reminiscent of Venezuela.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-02-09/coronavirus-hong-kong-shows-symptoms-of-a-failed-state

    =====================
    The coronavirus crisis could shut auto plants around the world
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/09/business/china-coronavirus-global-auto-industry-impact/index.html

    ==========================
    Singapore Grocery Chain Starts Limiting How Much People Can Buy

    How Singapore residents react to the virus outbreak “is a major test for our nation,” Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong said in a Facebook post Saturday.

    “There is no need to panic,” he said later. “We are not locking down the city or confining everybody to stay at home. We have ample supplies, so there is no need to stock up with instant noodles, tinned food, or toilet paper, as some people did yesterday.”

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/hoarding-spikes-singapore-pm-says-053059097.html

    ====================================

    Leak Video How corona virus infected patients are treated in Wuhan China New Hospital
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoJHLnYvGus

    =======================

    There are a number of videos showing people collapsing in the streets and also cases of seizures. Notice at the end of this video.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilfg-vz4mjI

    ======================
    Welding homes closed! The reality of life in China during coronavirus outbreak.

    ===========================
    This video from January 26 was a compilation that shows where people
    would just collapse and relates to the video directly above this.
    =================================
    Same here. Excuse the conspiracy theory stuff at the beginning of the video:

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 10:47am

    #48

    saxplayer00o1

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jul 30 2009

    Posts: 3134

    2

    Bodies piling up, Hubei Province funeral home workers pushed to near collapse as cremation centers burn HUNDREDS of bodies per day

     

     

     

     

     

     

    We do not yet know how many cremation centers are operating in the Hubei Province, where the Wuhan city resides, but just from these two, the cremation capacity is nearly 900 bodies per day, and even then the bodies are piling up. From these facts we can deduce that the actual death rate in the region most likely exceeds 900 bodies per day.

    https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-02-09-hubei-province-funeral-home-workers-near-collapse-cremation-factories-burn-over-300-bodies-per-day.html

     

    This is Natural News and I wouldn't have posted this if they didn't give a source.The link they give is here:

    https://news.ltn.com.tw/news/world/breakingnews/3062144

    You can translate the text using this link. Not great, but it does work:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=translate+chinese+to+english&rlz=1CAHKDC_enUS870&oq=translate+&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j69i59j0l6.5655j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

    =========================

    Darren of Plymouth 

    🇬🇧

    @DarrenPlymouth
    1.5 million chinese infected with #coronavirus. 50,000 cremated.

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 10:51am

    #49

    Wendy S. Delmater

    Status: Diamond Member

    Joined: Dec 13 2009

    Posts: 1434

    11

    Just a reminder

    If you're a gardener, have you made your seed order yet? Some staples are already showing as "sold out" at my favorite online seed retailers and I think this might be related to the outbreak. Try to get heirloom seeds so you can grow next year's crop from saved seeds. It's a good idea to get 2 year's worth of seeds in case of a bad year - the seed will be 80% viable next year unless you buy it in a vacuum-sealed envelope (Park Seed does this - do not buy seed for next year from Park Seed.) Bear in mind that carrots mus be two years old to make seeds.

    Hopefully you have started to grow your own things and have some heirloom seed already set aside. There's a long learning curve but for those who are new to PeakProsperity.com  we're here to help. PM me if you have any questions.

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 10:59am

    #50
    Matties

    Matties

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 30 2020

    Posts: 160

    2

    I am a troll

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-51429400

    The World Health Organisation (WHO) has warned that "trolls and conspiracy theories" are undermining their response to the new coronavirus.

    WHO Director General Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus told reporters that misinformation was "making the work of our heroic workers even harder".

    But exiled Chinese billionaire Guo Wengui said Sunday, citing leaked information out of Wuhan, that the death toll could be as high as 50,000, 1,5 million infected, as Chinese officials burn bodies to cover up the true extent of the crisis.

    One reporter from the Epoch Times shared this map earlier showing the sulfur dioxide content in the air spiking over Wuhan.

    View image on Twitter

     

    In other news, one reporter from the Epoch Times, a newspaper that has assiduously covered the virus despite threats from the mainland government, said she believed based upon her research that the virus might be artificial, a question that others have raised.

     

    Out of all 31 provinces in China, Guangdong Province is quickly becoming the second-worst-hit after Hubei, even though the two provinces don't share a land border. The ET shared a video of a third makeshift nCoV hospital being built somewhere in the province, apparently.

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 11:00am

    #51

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1047

    6

    A Positive?

    This Pandemic will be and is a historic event.  However, the reality is all we really have is right here and right now.  Why not keep a three ring binder of articles of interest, your thoughts and fears.  How you and your family are prepping and coping.  Make it a year long binder,  You could include pictures, like the salad bar at the grocery store, people with masks on, the receipt for filling you vehicle with fuel and the garden you are growing.  Twenty years from now a child or grandchild might find the binder very interesting.  I would have found such a binder reflecting the rationing my my parents and grandparents went through in WWII very interesting.

    Being busy and productive provides more health benefits than to much ruminating.  How many of us are ruminating?

    AKGrannyWGrit

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 11:12am

    #52

    robshepler

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Apr 16 2010

    Posts: 167

    4

    Great reminder Wendy!

    A great reminder Wendy, and seed starting media as well. For those who are used to buying starts at the local big box, it is pretty straight forward to grow your own. We have been using soil blocks for eight years and love them. Media and blocks are made on site. We have enough components on hand to get us through the season. A great feature of the blocks is the roots air prune, they stop growing until you place them in the soil, the roots will not circle as they will in a pot. Vigorous growth, very little transplant shock. We start a few thousand seeds each season.

    https://www.johnnyseeds.com/growers-library/tools-supplies/soil-block-maker-instructions.html

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 11:58am

    #53
    Alexis

    Alexis

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 26 2020

    Posts: 65

    2

    Seed starting

    Thank you for sharing the seed gardening, this has been on my mind and I didn’t know where to start! Those of us with children that have severe food allergies are more than cringing over a break in our usual food supply. Any tips on best crops to start? How much should you seed? Preferred tools/boxes? Thanks in advance!

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 12:24pm

    #54

    saxplayer00o1

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jul 30 2009

    Posts: 3134

    2

    Nature video...Wolves provide transportation to sheep and sheep voluntarily take it

    Wuhan implemented the policy of ‘bring everyone together who needs treatment’

    On the night of Feb 9, diagnosed patients of Shuiguohu Street, Wuchang district, were transmitted by bus to Hongshan Gymnasium makeshift hospital for further treatment. #coronavirus
    ========================================================
    Just a reminder of what their "hospital" will look like. Excuse my sarcasm on this post, but I don't see this ending well for those getting on these busses.

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 12:29pm

    Montana Native

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 17 2009

    Posts: 122

    4

    Side note on ARB drugs

    I was explaining the ACE2 mechanism of the virus to my wife who is a pharmacist the other night. She told me there were massive recalls last year on those drugs. Apparently there was a carcinogen in the meds. She also mentioned many pharmacists thought the recall was a little silly, seeing that the compounds were found in cured meats at higher rates. All the drugs were recalled for destruction and are still in short supply. Anyways, just an anecdotal tale from the field.

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 12:32pm

    Nairobi

    Nairobi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 05 2020

    Posts: 289

    0

    No hope of virus containment once it reaches Africa

    Having lived in East Africa since 2008 with the majority of my time spent in Ethiopia I think I am qualified to comment on the well timed Zerohedge article you just posted.

    To wit, there is zero hope of viral containment once Coronavirus reaches the African continent. What is coming for Africa is nothing short of a social, economic and political disaster. Let me me explain this by way of a statistical backdrop.

    In Ethiopia, the average annual expenditure per person for medications was under 5 USD in 2018 while total expenditures on health services per capital was 28 dollars (includes government, NGO and charitable expenses and contributions).

    https://knoema.com/atlas/Ethiopia/topics/Health/Health-Expenditure/Health-expenditure-per-capita

    Just from a backdrop on investment in health services we can be pretty certain that a serious viral outbreak will not be controlled there. Not at that financial level anyway.

    The Ethiopian government is already overwhelmed meeting the most basic debt payments while the nation is suffering a dollar shortage so acute that all non-essential goods cannot even be imported. The largest budget item next to debt payments is imported fuel. And that is in a country where only 1% of the population owns a private vehicle.

    Addis Ababa is currently experiencing an unprecedented HIV/AIDS epidemic. Recent statistics showed in excess of 70% of prostitutes were infected while one WHO study done some years ago came back with an astonishing 100% infection rate of regional sex trade workers. That study is buried so deep on Google search I cannot even find it anymore.

    The Ethiopian governments own records were claiming HIV infection rates of up to 5% nationally but my personal physician there related that in the capital Addis the real numbers were as high as 30% of  the sexually active population.

    This is a case of how statistics lie. Ethiopia's median age is 16 meaning half the population is below that age. So excluding young people who would not be sexually active and excluding older people means that the 5% national infection rate is concentrated in a more defined demographic group and locale  and helps explains the nearly biblical HIV infection rates in Addis Ababa.

    East Africa is also currently suffering the effects of two other very serious health problems. MRSA is rampant and uncontrolled throughout most hospital settings while a new variant of drug resistant Tuburculosis kills thousands of people annually.

    Indeed, the majority of HIV cases who become AIDS victims are currently dying of TB and related respiratory illnesses.

    So we can run some math on this with what we already know about Corona rates of infection in China and then superimpose that on a largely sick and poor population in Ethiopia. I will leave it to you to do the calculations since this post is running too long. But the numbers are not very pretty.

    This recent development of TB that does not respond to antibiotics poses the highest risk to anyone whose immunity is already compromised and it is without question going to be one of the illnesses that cause higher death rates among future Corona victims in East Africa.

    So combining a novel virus that people have no immunity against with an already sickened population tells us that Ethiopia and particularly Addis will be graveyard a year from now.

    And that is not even close to being alarmist.

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 12:35pm

    Nairobi

    Nairobi

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    Nairobi said:

    Wow

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 1:18pm

    kunga

    kunga

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    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 368

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    Re: Dealing PMs

    Hi, ao,  My buyer sends proceeds by echeck so don't have to go to bank.  My concern is shipping there or back if this virus compromises the shipping systems.  Any comments?

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 2:03pm

    Nairobi

    Nairobi

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    Nairobi said:

    Curiously, a post I left just an hour ago addressing African preparedness to a pandemic has never appeared. Perhaps its because there was a link that must be vetted before being allowed to post?

    In any event I wanted to follow it up with a commentary about the hospital system in Ethiopia's capital Addis Ababa that is written as a first hand account.

    This brief narrative is my personal experience of medical care provisioning in Ethiopia during the summer of 2018 when my wife contracted lung cancer and died. It is entirely factual no matter how implausible it may sound. And it is intended to show just how impoverished that nation is and how poorly equipped the hospitals are even in the capital city.

    This post therefore will attempt to answer the question of how prepared African countries are to deal with the Coronavirus epidemic.

    We attended an appointment at Black Lion Hospital when my wife began having serious breathing problems and at that time discovered one of her lungs were filled with fluid due to a presumed cancerous growth.

    What happened next was we began a search for a biopsy needle so the hospital might test the growth that was detected on an X-ray. That search lasted more than 7 days and we were unable to locate a single 18 gauge biopsy needle anywhere in Addis Ababa.

    The hospitals do not stock them and none of the pharmacies had any to sell. All we heard in each place we went was "yellem" which means there are not any. Finally a single needle was located and bought from a local NGO for a nosebleed price of 130 dollars. It is one reason why most wealthy Ethiopians flee the country for serious treatments.

    Hospitals there are very poorly equipped and at Black Lion patients families are required to leave the hospital grounds and go to local pharmacies to buy masks, surgical gloves, IV solutions, medications and any other supplies required for treatment or surgery.

    The emergency ward was a horror. It was maybe 50 beds across two large open rooms under a corrugated steel roof. When it rained you could not hear a word anyone was saying because of the sound of water striking the metal roof.

    Patients in all states of medical distress were crammed tightly in rows of beds and typically surrounded by up to a dozen or more family members. It was elbow to elbow bedlam there on the main floor with an open unguarded entrance to the facility.

    Linens and beds were dirty or soiled and I frequently witnessed blood on the floors from emergency surgeries done in situ. There was only 3 portable oxygen machines of which my wife periodically had use of one. But it was taken from her at varying times of the day as other emergenies arrived.

    It is difficult to fully express what a hopeless environment that was but it is even more difficult to imagine how it would function during a pandemic emergency as even during my wife's short stay the emergency room was full to capacity.

    This is not a country a foreigner would want to be when struck down by illness or injury. There are other hospitals that are more modern but the story is the same. Most seem to operate near capacity already and as a result I can say without equivocation that Ethiopia will not be in any position to manage a serious health care emergency like novel Cnv.

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 2:07pm

    Wendy S. Delmater

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    2

    It varies so much

    Gosh, Alixis, I'd need to know a lot more before I could even start to advise you. Where do you live? In what sort of population density, what country, what climate? (USDA zones for those in the USA would help. I used to garden in suburban USDA Zone 5 but have been gardening in semi-rural Zone 8b for ten years now.)

    How much space do you have to garden in? Will it be getting enough light? Will you have problems with deer, vandals, or contamination? What kind of soil do you have: sandy, clay, loam, acidic, alkaline? (and do you know how to get it tested in time?) How will you water it? Don’t despair but let’s think about these things.

    Let’s talk about this.

    All that being said, the easiest things for beginners to grow are leaf lettuces, bunching onions, carrots, and kale. If you're in an urban environment don't throw out your celery base: put it in wet soil on a windowsill and you'll get more celery.

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 2:44pm

    #61
    jbuck

    jbuck

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    Joined: Mar 17 2010

    Posts: 20

    6

    plant starts and seeds - cautions

    About 10 years ago, late blight was a problem around the NE of the USA.  Big-box retailers "were at least one source of the illness".  For that and other reasons (like, what's in the soil?  what's been sprayed on it?  what other fungi/bacteria/viruses have they been exposed to? how far have they been trucked?), I would never, EVER buy something at a big-box garden center that I planned to eat or to feed my family.  Plus, it's just another non-resilient supply chain dependency.

    At Local greenhouses and garden centers I can find plants more likely to do well here because they were grown here in the high, semi-arid west, usually at the greenhouse where I shop.  Visit a few because they are not all awesome.  Some shops will have seeds adapted to the climate as well (local seed swaps are probably a better source).  The ones that have been around forever are often family owned with multiple generations around - great folks to get to know and, in my experience, generous with their wealth of knowledge.  Not all families get along so ymmv.  If they don't want to talk about what inputs they use or their practices, I'd move along.  There are plenty to visit and these days, anyone doing it right wants everyone to know it.

    If you're going to start seeds, know that the seed industry has consolidated around a few chemical firms over the past couple of decades. (see here for one analysis) Only buy organic and look for the trusted, independent brands.  I believe Johnny's is still employee owned.  They have a huge selection and lots of tools, supplies, etc.  Love their catalog.  I've also bought seeds from Strictly Medicinal (individually owned), and Seed Savers Exchange (a non-profit). Baker Creek is another good one (family owned).  Their massive, detailed catalog is now $10 but it's worth getting it at least once.  It's amazing. (just looked over at rareseeds.com and see they have a short version they'll send you for free).  The farm is in Missouri but they have a shop in Petaluma I'll bet Adam has been to.  There are others, these are just the few I've dealt with.  There are surprises too.  I recently learned that Seeds of Change has belonged to Mars since 1997.

    Learning to start seeds is fun.  If you have little kids, I can tell you they will eat anything that they planted, watched grow, and picked.

    Don't forget, gardening lifts your mood too.  I feel better just thinking and writing about it. 🙂

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 3:20pm

    Nairobi

    Nairobi

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    Pardon me....

    Pardon me....but the title of this thread is "Coronavirus Is A Nightmare For The Global Economy" so it's a mystery where seed selection fits in! LOL

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 3:23pm

    #63
    DisappearingCulture

    DisappearingCulture

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    3

    CHRIS: Please Read This First Article, The the Second

    https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/coronavirus-tests-u-s-medical-system-s-unhealthy-reliance-china-ncna1131211?fbclid=IwAR0W0ZYm50lf26UewtGoBVyyfxCmCTmCEmFoJplz1IG8Zedxe5g22khAREw

    https://www.foxnews.com/health/coronavirus-outbreak-china-medical-supply-shortage-death-toll-sars?fbclid=IwAR3R2m7MiigXxEUNX5C4CFD0A4CryQMRXTzjsFOqCjxkNcwHK5y02X-JnFs

    We are totally dependent on China for our epidemic/pandemic supplies, and we aren't going to get many, as they are in severe shortage themselves.

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 3:24pm

    #64
    aggrivated

    aggrivated

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    Posts: 469

    3

    FedEx and UPS pilots

    The pilots union has struck a deal that allows pilots to opt out of China flights. Those who volunteer to go will get extra pay and if quarantined for sickness will continue to be paid as if they were making regular flights. I haven't seen any data about how many freight flights have been cut due to the China epidemic.

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 3:40pm

    Barbara

    Barbara

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    Posts: 180

    2

    Corona could have been mistaken for flu as testing is not required

    There is already some thought that this one might become another seasonal flu.  If so, and we suspect that US has NOT been monitoring and/or testing effectively, we may want to watch for flu outbreaks in areas with lots of asian air traffic.   If you don't text this could look like many seasonal respiratory virus complications.

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 3:53pm

    #66

    saxplayer00o1

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jul 30 2009

    Posts: 3134

    0

    40,234 of which 6,315 in severe condition Deaths: 906 Recovered: 3,281

    40,234
    of which 6,315
    in severe condition
    Deaths:

    906
    Recovered:

    3,281

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 3:57pm

    #67

    saxplayer00o1

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jul 30 2009

    Posts: 3134

    1

    Coronavirus Cases: 40,234 of which 6,315 in severe condition Deaths: 906 Recovered: 3,281

    Coronavirus Cases:

    40,234
    of which 6,315
    in severe condition
    Deaths:

    906
    Recovered:

    3,281

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 4:03pm

    Nairobi

    Nairobi

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    5

    China's has already lost confidence among Africans

    Well maybe it is me who is going off topic by turning this into an African thread. But after more than a decade of my life spent in Ethiopia I can tell readers here a few things they have probably never heard before and this applies to what I think is coming to Africas economies as a result of this Wuhan virus.

    We all know about the billions of dollars of investments China has been pouring into African nations from Kenya to Zimbabwe. In the West it is widely acknowledged that Chinese banks and investors are buying their way into the continent and spreading around favours to gain access to key infrastructure.

    What is less well known is that the Chinese are widely reviled and distrusted by many average Africans. Ask any Ethiopian for example and the very first word out of their mouths after hearing the word China is "layba".

    It translates as "thief" from Amharic.

    The reason has to do with how factories have been set up, how the Chinese have been given unusual privileges and free lands to do business there and because of the extremely low salaries they offer and dangerous working conditions in their factories.

    Ethiopians themselves do not have the freedoms to conduct business like the Chinese do nor do they have influence with their own government.

    Distrust levels are already extremely high and this has been compounded by the manner in which the Chinese workers are housed in private compounds quite separate from the local population. In Bishoftu City alone there are hundreds of Chinese-only housing units next to the government subsidized Industrial Zone. Ethiopians may not enter except as employees.

    So there is already an environment of segregation. Call it a two speed society of haves and have-nots. Distrust of the Chinese is widespread and a common belief among the Ethiopian public is that while Chinese enterprises are helping lift the country out of poverty that they are also totally corrupt and in bed with a government that the people want overthrown.

    It is a toxic mix in the Oromia region where during the 2017 and 2018 protests some youths threatened to burn down foreign factories (Chinese industrial zone factories to be specific).

    So I am now wondering what kind of backlash might be expected as this virus spreads and more worryingly if Ethiopians come to conclude that the virus was indeed manufactured or if they were even the intended targets.

    We cannot know the future of course but the advent of the coronavirus has the potential to very seriously impact Chinese industrial policy in Africa where average people already believe China is taking advantage of them if not outright stealing and corrupting their governments and where levels of distrust are surprisingly high.

     

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 4:05pm

    #69

    gallantfarms

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 18 2009

    Posts: 67

    11

    New Peak Prosperity Video on YouTube

    New update video on YouTube:  I recommend watching it there and hit the like button.  Hopefully that helps to counter the censorship.

     

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 4:15pm

    Mahalopamala

    Mahalopamala

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    Joined: Aug 12 2017

    Posts: 5

    1

    Thank you for the common sense coverage

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 4:16pm

    #71

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1047

    1

    Ironic, Interesting, Creepy

    • I watched the video live and found it interesting that the add, displayed below Chris’s video was for ——- wait for it -  - WHO, (World Health Organization,  providing you with up to date information.) Hmm just a coincidence?

     

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 4:24pm

    Barbara

    Barbara

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    Joined: Dec 15 2009

    Posts: 180

    4

    Seeds and Gardens

    1) why seeds on an economy thread.  Well, guess what, no international transportation, no out of season food.  Internal travel restrictions:  No food from California.  California farm workers contaminated - do you want to buy their fresh food?  Makes e-coli outbreaks look like a picnic.
    2)  Big box store had seeds in the north already.  As I walked past, it occurred to me that it might be important to have the capacity to grow a larger garden than usual and I grabbed a set of heritage ones.  Local growers who have more trustworthy sources don't have them out yet.  May not be the best, but they are my backup plan.
    3) Get to know your regional organic growers, organic farmers, etc.  At least here in the midwest, truck farmers often have difficulty getting help.    They may be willing to trade seeds/sets/produce for help.  Also, they may have difficulty getting produce to market if cities are contaminated.  Suggest you get to know them now.
    4) Get a couple of cold frames - you'll need as much outdoor time as you can grab
    5)  If you're in the south, plant salad stuff outdoors NOW.  Be ready to cover if you get a cold snap.  With warmer weather, plants need to be in now.  Plant hot weather seeds inside so you can get it out early.

    To track planting times, go to https://www.climatehubs.usda.gov/ and find your regional hub.  They have longer term local ag weather forecasting.  They will often also have connections in the local ag research universities.  Get to know these people.  Many are practical climate activists.

    For good midwest connections, there is a group called Practical farmers of Iowa doing some really innovative things with Iowa State at Ames around soil reclamation and carbon sequestration in soils.  practicalfarmers.org
    Find something similar near you.

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 4:34pm

    Barbara

    Barbara

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    Posts: 180

    4

    China in Africa

    Looks like the Chinese learned really well from the old pre-1970 American extraction companies in Latin America and Africa.  Take the resources at low cost without doing much to develop the local capacity.  Mine becomes less economic, leave the eco disaster and move to greener pastures.  Result nationalization and the same exploitation by the local ruling elites.  Not pretty.

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 5:30pm

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    3

    Good Way To Start Gardening Small

    Alexis (and others), I run my own website that does a lot of container gardening for people in apartments or those that don't have enough land to put in a garden. I use some self watering containers that I make myself out of plastic buckets.

    I posted a tutorial here on Peak Prosperity a while back.

    https://www.peakprosperity.com/forum-topic/self-watering-garden-containers/

    If you have a few hand tools and about an hour you can make a few yourself, then have the kids help you plant them. They work very well with micro-greens (lettuces, spinaches, kale, etc). PM me if you have any questions about them.

    ---

    As for the question "Why do we have a question about gardening, this is a economic thread?" Its because many of the people coming here seeking information about this evolving crisis are new to the idea of preparing for something like this. They come here from Youtube, this is the newest thread, and they are scared.

    With the rapid pace this is developing, have a little patience with the newer PP members please.

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 5:42pm

    #75

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    0

    Why Burn When You Can Bury?

    A google said "The typical cremation conducted in a modern crematory requires an average of 28 gallons of fuel (about the amount of fuel that can be held in an SUV gas tank)". Why burn bodies when you could much easier just put them in mass graves?

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 5:47pm

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    2

    China Gives Loans First Barbara

    China has learned from us. They come in and offer development loans, which a host country the uses to hire Chinese companies to build airports, ports, roads and other infrastructure that makes it easier for other Chinese companies to build mines and take out resources. Often those loans are on pretty poor terms for the country, and when they default, China gets hard assets like airports, ports, and such as payment.

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 6:00pm

    #77

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    1

    Medicare For All?

    I said in another thread, this virus is going to send tens of thousands of people to the hospital, most of them with poor insurance or none at all. That will result in billions of dollars in bills that will head straight to bankruptcy court in 2021-22.

    Could this be the straw that makes Medicare for All a reality?

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 6:14pm

    yogmonster

    yogmonster

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 01 2013

    Posts: 48

    0

    Confessions of an Economic Hitman

    Maybe they read John Perkin's book.

    Confessions of an Economic Hitman

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 6:16pm

    #79

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1047

    1

    Anyone Else

    The latest video makes my head spin.  My thoughts are “holy shit” the ramifications of this information are mind-boggeling.  Our world will change and none of us want the change that is coming.

    There should be a casino/crazy place for infected people where they can get all the alcohol, partying, opioids, pot, dancing, gambling etc they want.  Understanding its a one way ticket but they would go out having fun. I know, crazy idea but there are probably a lot of people who would be takers, maybe?

    Just ruminating.

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 6:30pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    3

    Thank you, Nairobi.'Glad you're here.

    Thank you for sharing your story, Nairobi. I'm sorry about the loss of your wife, especially under such horrific circumstances. Your experience starkly illuminates why, if this pandemic takes hold in Africa, India, South America or other high population countries with poor health/medical care systems, it will ravage the globe and millions will die.

    I might have missed this from one of your other posts, but would you mind sharing where (in general) you are living now? I hope you are better situated, although I'm sure you miss your wife. 'Glad you've joined the PP tribe. 🙂

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 6:36pm

    Mr Curious

    Mr Curious

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    Posts: 78

    0

    medicare for all

    Soviet Union style healthcare for the masses, given the national bankruptcy

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 6:42pm

    Mr Curious

    Mr Curious

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    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 78

    2

    why not bury?

    I would guess it is considered "cleaner" to cremate the virus. However, maybe they are burying as well. The implications of this would be quite GRAVE because this would suggest an even higher death toll. It's in the hands of citizen journalists to document this I guess.

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 7:34pm

    #83
    wheresdavid

    wheresdavid

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    Joined: Sep 14 2008

    Posts: 18

    1

    Authorities in major centres like Beijing, Shanghai and Shenzhen have given the green light for businesses to resume operations,

    Authorities in major centres like Beijing, Shanghai and Shenzhen have given the green light for businesses to resume operations,

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3049740/chinese-cities-keen-get-back-work-coronavirus-concerns-grow

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 8:27pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    3

    Fast Forward to the "best economy ever!" and "recovery"

    When this pandemic takes hold and in its aftermath, the middle and/or working class (what's left of them!) will be more likely to go bankrupt regardless of whether they have insurance. They will lose their homes, what little savings they have (if any), and pensions or retirement plans as the "everything bubble" collapses as planned (hastened by/blamed on the pandemic) in the greatest wealth transfer to the elite in modern history.

    The poor will forego care and/or benefit from government subsidized care. The homeless populations will explode. Many will die. The wealthy will get the care they want or need, regardless of whether the health/medical systems are overloaded.

    Increased revenues from private health/medical insurance, pharma, etc. increases wealth for the 1% and increases national GDP. Ironically, government subsidized health/medical outlays also increase GDP.  A win-win situation, right? (Except for the sick and dying part.)

    Slight-of-hand tax breaks, Universal Basic Income (UBI) or other helicopter money, and/or high-profile "disaster relief" will help appease and control the masses, while further enriching insiders. With unprecedented misery and devastation evident everywhere, our "leaders" will be touting fantasy GDP figures and other financial indicators, telling us that we have the "best economy ever!"

    Epilogue:  Recovery

    Public perception of currency as "dirty money" and vectors for nCoV transmission will propel the use of cashless currency. Direct deposit for employment income, government income/subsidy; getting paid/paying for goods and services using Vinmo or other financial platforms will become the norm (except for a few hold-outs such as "the unbanked", some older people, preppers and money-laundering criminals and terrorists).

    This, in turn, makes it easier to introduce negative interest rates to spur spending to help speed the economic "recovery" from the pandemic. (Help the cause, Patriots: Go shopping!) Cashless and negative interest rates also allow for debt-based fractional asset lending (at exorbitant rates, of course) for virtually any asset. These new asset-based financial products and their derivatives will then be bundled, packaged and traded in the ""markets"".

    Enter the era of Debt-Slaves-R-Us; a two-tier feudal system where the .0001% literally own the world for generations to come.

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 9:23pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

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    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    0

    Re: Major Chinese cities open for business sure to increase nCoV infections and deaths

    Simply checking for fever, providing masks and encouraging handwashing is not going to keep the asymptomatic infected workers from spreading this virus. And if nCoV can indeed be aerosolized, then there's no stopping its spread even if they do keep the central air systems off. As a result, the number of infections and deaths are sure to increase, although the world may never know because they'll be under reported.

    It certainly does send a message to the world that China is again "open for business" and that the pandemic is under control.  I guess economics and public perception trumps public health. The World Health [Trade] Organization would approve.

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 9:59pm

    Nairobi

    Nairobi

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    Joined: Feb 05 2020

    Posts: 289

    1

    We are being lied to Sparky.

    The Chinese public has certainly been tested. Judging by some videos and commentary the people in some locked down cities are ready to openly revolt. It's an exceptional situation over there where the vast majority are normally obedient to the Emperor. Maybe reopening factories is the answer to bringing calm back to Chinese society in spite of the risks. I am still trying to digest how we just went from news of thousands of bodies being incinerated in Wuhan to its business as usual. Something does not add up here. Was this all a fraud?

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  • Sun, Feb 09, 2020 - 10:16pm

    Nairobi

    Nairobi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 05 2020

    Posts: 289

    3

    We need to decouple from China quickly....

    What this pandemic nightmare should really be teaching us is that Western nations have far too high a dependency on Chinese manufacturing.

    They produce most of our medications, medical supplies, gloves, masks, oxygen bottles and the majority of testing equipment. Does everyone see the risk? Especially if it can be proven that the Wuhan lab deliberately created a militarized virus that spreads by aerosol to kill (us)?

    Well if this illness is the smoking gun of bigger intentions there is certainly a good case for industrial disengagement for our own sake. I also heard China produces 100% of all the world's zippers. Holy crow, we can't even put on our own pants without their exports.

    This is another reason why globalization is a failure because it magnifies our vulnerability as a society. Someone else wrote in another thread that North American pharma does not even produce domestic antibiotics anymore.

    Are we a bunch of fools or what?

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  • Mon, Feb 10, 2020 - 5:57am

    #88

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    1

    Hospitals and Insurance Company Bailouts Will Not Be Popular

    Soviet Union style healthcare for the masses, given the national bankruptcy

    Curious, is that a partisan talking point or something else? I couldn't tell. In counter, let me quote something I saw recently.

    "Public healthcare is so hard, only 35 out of 37 Western counties have managed to do it"

    Whether or not you support a public healthcare option, Insurance companies are hated as much, if not more than big banks right now. Most big hospitals are part of chain corporations with many services, and are just as hated, the way they go after people with bills too. Both are going to see tens of billions in uncollectable bills from this crisis. They will come to Congress with their hands out, expecting that much like financial firms in the 2008 crisis, this time they too will be bailed out by the tax payers.

    There is no appetite among the public for another bailout where the little guys gets screwed and the big guys walk away with pots of money now. Maybe their paid for congress critters can push something thru but the Democrats control the purse with the House, and their progressive wing isn't going to stand for business as usual. Their pound of flesh may well be a public option.

    If the virus tapers off with the Summer, then the national elections will play out after the first wave into the second wave in the late Fall. This virus isn't just going to do economic damage but political change as well.

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  • Mon, Feb 10, 2020 - 6:54am

    Barbara

    Barbara

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 15 2009

    Posts: 180

    1

    hospital/insurance failures and bailouts

    There was NO appetite for bailouts in 2008 either.  In fact, the average American wanted jail time for executives, NOT golden parachutes.
    Unfortunately, Obama, a liberal Dem went ahead with bailouts, because it would preserve jobs - yea, right.  If we had spent the same money on extended unemployment benefits and COBRA subsidies, we could have let the bad actors fail.
    So the new liberal story will be we can't have any healthcare failures, because in new waves of the epidemic we'll need their services.  However, they will sell assets of smaller, better run local system to the big guys at fire sale prices.
    If you remember in 2008, failing financial institutions were given away to favored political insiders.  Few people even noticed.

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  • Mon, Feb 10, 2020 - 7:45am

    #90
    wheresdavid

    wheresdavid

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 14 2008

    Posts: 18

    1

    In the recent coronavirus study (preprint) released from China, 79% of patients infected with the virus developed PNEUMONIA. Essentially, this pathogen could disable (or worse) most of the world’s population for a long period of time.

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.02.06.20020974v1

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  • Mon, Feb 10, 2020 - 10:50am

    #91
    richcabot

    richcabot

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Apr 05 2011

    Posts: 241

    2

    Impact on electroinics

    Aspencore Media has launched a Special Project, “Outbreak in Wuhan,” seeking to define the global impact of the deadly virus in the electronic industry.

    https://www.eetimes.com/outbreak-in-wuhan/

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  • Fri, Feb 14, 2020 - 9:31am

    #92
    Barbara

    Barbara

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 15 2009

    Posts: 180

    3

    We're so close to the edge - see this from Australia

    Their analysis: "Our communities, especially in bushfire-prone areas, need more redundancy to make them resilient to disasters. This might mean towns storing water, non-perishable food, blankets, medical supplies, a generator, a satellite phone and possibly fuel, in protected locations."

    https://theconversation.com/no-food-no-fuel-no-phones-bushfires-showed-were-only-ever-one-step-from-system-collapse-130600

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