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    Joel Salatin and flock

    The Call of the Tribe

    A critical gathering of the Peak Prosperity Tribe at Polyface Farms
    by Jeanne

    Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 4:20 PM

*Additional note on ticketing (June 1, 2021):  Registration will be checked by roster at the event. Tickets will not be issued, but you may choose to save or print your confirmation email as a backup.*

Not meaning to diminish Jack London’s immortal classic, The Call of the Wild, but a Call of the Tribe is now in order.

We are facing unknowns, to say the least. Although we live in the richest country on Earth, food insecurity is mysteriously increasing. As of April 2020, more than one in five households in the United States, and two in five households with mothers with children 12 and under, were food insecure (savethechildren.org). This is likely to worsen over time as energy, labor, lumber and other critical primary resources deplete and/or disappear. Dystopian as it may seem, the time to learn HARD SKILLS about sustainable farming and food production is now. And there is no better place to learn than at this amazing event.

We have a packed 2 day event planned at Joel Salatin’s Polyface Farms in Swoope, VA that will teach both the novice and the expert homesteader/farmer alike about the most effective food production methods and techniques known today, at one of the most admired farms in America. Key instructional areas include:

  • Forestry and Water
  • Electric Netting/layers/sheep
  • Broilers:  processing and production
  • Rabbits:  processing and production
  • Leasing rental land and collaborations
  • Sawmills
  • Pigs, Cows, Brooding poultry
  • And much more…
Chris, Adam and many of the Peak Prosperity Tribe will be in attendance and ready to share their unique knowledge and first-hand experience with attendees. Additionally, there will be ample opportunities to speak and engage with Chris and the new team, including a lovely social gathering following the end of day’s activities on Saturday. Plenty of craft brews, wine and lite fare will be provided, so save some time in your schedules and bring your appetites.
Tickets are on sale here.
Registration will be checked by roster at the event. Tickets will not be issued, but you may choose to save or print your confirmation email as a backup.
This is an event too critical to miss. If for any reason you’d like to attend this event but do not have the resources to do so at this time, please contact [email protected] to request a sponsorship ticket.

Additional Details:

Day one (Fri Jun 25) will be fully packed with presentations, tours, and live demos on the farm. Breakfast, a fresh farm lunch and dinner will be included.

Day two (Sat Jun 26) will continue the learning, though also have intentional space for the PP tribe to socialize and enjoy each other’s company. Again breakfast, fresh farm lunch as well as end of day’s social gathering hosted by Chris and the new Peak Prosperity management team included.

Click here for the closest airports to Swoope and click here for recommended lodging options (most are in nearby Staunton VA)

Other important details:

  • Joel and Polyface Farm are known for their libertarian approach to life. At this stage of COVID, they are leaving mask-wearing up to individual choice.  Much of the weekend will be spent outdoors on farm tours and demonstrations; but if the thought of possibly being around others not wearing masks in late June concerns you, perhaps coming isn’t a good idea.
  • As a reminder: this is NOT a Peak Prosperity-led event like our annual seminars. This is a Polyface event being produced by Joel and team for the benefit of Peak Prosperity tribe. Which is much better, as they know way more about the best practices of sustainable farming 🙂
  • Peak Prosperity’s premium subscribers receive a 20% discount off of the $350/ticket price for this event. That’s a $70/ticket savings. If you’re not currently a premium subscriber, consider becoming one now by clicking here. If you purchase a monthly subscription for $30, you’ll then save more than 2x that per ticket on this event — plus enjoy PeakProsperity.com’s premium content.

Please join us!

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85 Comments

  • Mon, May 24, 2021 - 8:17pm

    #1
    Jeanne

    Jeanne

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 19 2020

    Posts: 30

    4

    If you or someone you know should attend but needs financial help...

    Please reach out to me. This is too important to miss.

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  • Mon, May 24, 2021 - 9:16pm

    #2
    jeffnw

    jeffnw

    Status: Member

    Joined: Aug 26 2015

    Posts: 3

    0

    The following is a blood analysis of following vaccine injection posted on NCrenegade.com

    Interesting: Shocking Live Blood Analysis After Vax

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  • Mon, May 24, 2021 - 9:24pm

    jeffnw

    jeffnw

    Status: Member

    Joined: Aug 26 2015

    Posts: 3

    0

    inquiring about sponsorship

    Jeanne,

    I am interested in a sponsorship. . What do I need to do to apply for this.

    My cell is 970-589-0447.

     

    Best,

    Jeffrey White

    West Brookfield, MA

     

     

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  • Mon, May 24, 2021 - 9:32pm

    #4
    Earthiest

    Earthiest

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 17 2008

    Posts: 15

    8

    But seriously folks ...

    Howdy,

    One more BIG reason to plant a garden, raise some protein, and learn to save seed:

    Article Summary: drought is BAD and getting worse across the entire West. Climate Change is making our food system incredible insecure.

    As a farmer, I can tell you we are all freaking out about just how precarious our entire food system is. It's important to note that the west, particularly California, isn't just responsible for a huge percentage of the fresh produce in the US, it is also a huge seed producing area.

    So, enjoy the time at Polyface Farms and then get that homestead cranking!

    -H

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  • Mon, May 24, 2021 - 9:48pm

    #5
    Chris Martenson

    Chris Martenson

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Jun 07 2007

    Posts: 5993

    6

    Thank you Earthiest

    As a farmer, I can tell you we are all freaking out about just how precarious our entire food system is. It's important to note that the west, particularly California, isn't just responsible for a huge percentage of the fresh produce in the US, it is also a huge seed producing area.

    I agree completely with the assessment that things are precarious around the food systems.  Near-term there's the drought across the southwest.

    Longer-term there's the fact that ~1/6th of the world's entire grain harvest (last I checked) was grown on top of the Ogallala aquifer which is being drawn down towards zero at a horrifying clip.

    What's the plan for that situation?  Mostly arguing and fighting and finger-pointing.  This will then be followed by some hair-brained schemes like maybe building a pipeline from the great lakes.

    After that fails and most of the farms have quietly reverted to ruined scrubland, there may be a period where people bring back the slower, more gentle process of building soil and no-till methods and such.

    By the way, I read your comment about having heard me way back in Brattleboro.  And I remember Paul & Elizabeth talk about one of their 'graduates' success at over 7,000 feet in CO; I assume that must be you!

    Awesome.  So glad to hear of your success and happiness at working with the land.  🙂

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  • Mon, May 24, 2021 - 10:22pm

    Earthiest

    Earthiest

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 17 2008

    Posts: 15

    7

    Thanks Chris

    Yep, we are that high altitude Colorado farm!

    Yes, I'd say no matter where you look, the system is broken. I say system intentionally because having been involved in policy work at local, state, and federal levels for some years now, I can say that farmers and ranchers (the vast majority anyway) really care about their land and their products. But most are stuck in a system that rewards all the wrong things and the risk of switching practices if just too high. As an example, growers in our region right now are ripping out Alfalfa like crazy (not an insurable crop) and planting wheat (insurable) because we have no water but they'll survive if they collect insurance off the failed wheat. That type of mindset is insane, obviously, but since most farmers/ranchers are operating on razor tight margins they'll do it to survive.

    I can share that soil health is one of the TOP priorities for tackling climate change in the conversations happening at the federal policy level, which is refreshing. That being said, even with the printing presses going wild, I'm not seeing the type of money or urgency being thrown into Ag to really solve the problem.

    Which of course just leads me back to what we all already know ... be resilient for yourself, your family, and your community!

    -H

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  • Tue, May 25, 2021 - 12:06am

    #7

    travissidelinger

    Status: Member

    Joined: Nov 17 2010

    Posts: 255

    9

    Add a greenhouse

    Along with starting a garden, it actually takes a pretty good sizes garden to feed a family.  And that assumes nothing goes wrong.  We have a pretty good operation going, and at the core of that you simply need a green house.  In our climate, mid Ohio, a greenhouse can give you two full months head start in the spring.  And if you get your system down, you should be able to harvest a crop and have the next starters going right back in the soil the same day.

    With the crazy weather we've been getting, a greenhouse is going to be even more important.

    On a side note, we've been trying to figure out what crops to sow over the winter.  These dandelions keep pupping up everywhere.  Wait, I think nature just answered that question for us.  The rabbits and chickens love dandelions too.

    We will be excited to trade knowledge.

    -Travis

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  • Tue, May 25, 2021 - 4:29am

    #8
    dryam2000

    dryam2000

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Sep 06 2009

    Posts: 463

    7

    Weather extremes

    Unfortunately, I am not able to attend this great event as I’ve heard from a variety of diverse sources that Mr. Salatin is one of the best of the best.  Becoming as self-sufficient as possible, and growing one’s own food over the coming years should be a top priority IMO.

    There’s been increasing global weather extremes over the past 2.5 years…too wet/dry, too hot/cold, prolonged winters, and increase in severe weather.  All of this has greatly impacted food production.  Global grain stocks are at a five year lows.  The crop yields have been down the past 2 years pretty much around the globe.  Brazil’s second corn crop which is just now being harvested has been decimated by drought.  The current drought in the western US is one of the worst in decades.  The entire northern hemisphere had a very prolonged winter this year extending into May in most areas.  There have been extreme events such as Sidney, Australia’s 60 year flooding, Taiwan’s ongoing worst drought in 70 years, one of Europe’s coldest winters ever, etc.  People should take note of the very wavy jet stream.  This can cause not only extreme cold in an equatorial direction but it can also cause extreme warmth towards to poles.  Normally it is not near as wavy and does not extend as far south as it has this past year…see extreme polar vortex hitting Texas this year as well as Europe & China in the same fashion.  There are still snow storms hitting Montana & Wyoming.  Also, there have been violent sharp clashes of low pressure systems hitting warm moist air from the gulf resulting in very unusually large hail storms.  These hail storms haven’t been more prevalent just in the US, but in many other parts of the world.

    I could go on and on about the weather extremes we’ve been seeing globally.  Most people think this climate change is from CO2 emissions.  I personally think that’s ridiculous, and that it’s all from the fact we are entering a grand solar minimum.  I’ve been ridiculed, laughed at, and even told I was crazy to think that.  After studying the science and looking at real world events I become more and more convinced every day.  People can do their own research, & come to their own conclusions.  To each his own.  Nonetheless, whatever one believes is the cause for climate change I think it’s important to think outside the box as far as growing food.  Don’t count on growing seasons being the typical length, and expect possible colder temperatures in the winter & hotter in the summer.  Also, consider greenhouses, multiple types of hearty plant life, etc such that one can be successful dealing with weather extremes.

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  • Tue, May 25, 2021 - 5:59am

    #9
    Canuck21

    Canuck21

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Aug 10 2020

    Posts: 336

    4

    Canada-US Boundary Waters Treaty

    Chris wrote: "...hair-brained schemes like maybe building a pipeline from the great lakes."

    Canuck21 writes: Fortunately there is a longstanding international treaty in place to prevent precisely such schemes.

    The Boundary Waters Treaty is the 1909 treaty between the United States and Canadaproviding mechanisms for resolving any dispute over any waters bordering the two countries.[1] The treaty covers the

    Main shore to main shore of the lakes and rivers and connecting waterways, or the portions thereof, along which the international boundary between the United States and the Dominion of Canada passes, including all bays, arms, and inlets thereof, but not including tributary waters which in their natural channels would flow into such lakes, rivers, and waterways, or waters flowing from such lakes, rivers, and waterways,or canals or streams, or steams or the waters of rivers flowing across the boundary.

    The Boundary Waters Treaty, completed on January 11, 1909, was approved for ratification by a supermajority (two-thirds) of the United States Senate on March 3, 1909. President William Taft ratified the treaty on May 13, 1910.[4]

    Effect on water resources

    The IJC has jurisdiction for regulating water quantity, including flows and levels, the Treaty enumerates the following order of precedence of use (Article VIII):

    The Treaty applies the riparian doctrine that one use cannot materially impair another protected use.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boundary_Waters_Treaty_of_1909#Effect_on_water_resources

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  • Tue, May 25, 2021 - 6:50am

    #10
    VTGothic

    VTGothic

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jan 05 2020

    Posts: 650

    0

    Echo Greenhouse

    @travissidelinger:

    you simply need a green house

    @dryam2000:

    whatever one believes is the cause for climate change I think it’s important to think outside the box as far as growing food.  Don’t count on growing seasons being the typical length, and expect possible colder temperatures in the winter & hotter in the summer.  Also, consider greenhouses, multiple types of hearty plant life, etc such that one can be successful dealing with weather extremes.

    I'll be growing nothing till it's time for fall crop planting, this year, to complete some soil building started last year, and to provide time to work on infrastructure. There is only so much time in a day and we can still get good food off nearby farms, so infrastructure and soil improvement is the push.

    Two years ago summer was so cool and damp none of my field grown tomatoes, eggplant, or peppers produced. Happily I had some in the greenhouse, too. But that year taught me I'd have to maintain a greenhouse into the future - and need to experiment with small portable greenhouses, too, that I can position around the garden to better trap solar gain.

    In my mind that means I need a better structure than the hoop-style greenhouse with plastic cover because that greenhouse plastic has to be replaced every 5-6 years and who knows if it will be available, or at what price.

    Then this winter the sudden, water-heavy snow of February crushed my winter-hardy hoop house - after 7 winters of usually more total snow and no signs of stress. So one project for this year is a wood-framed greenhouse with glass or polycarbonate panels. I absolutely agree: for my climate, a greenhouse is essential.

    Also essential, I think, for everyone is the development of a food forest. It's planB emergency rations for when the garden fails to produce and the grocer's shelves are thin to empty. Every back yard ought to sprout trees, bushes, vines, roots and ground cover that produce nuts, berries, starches, grains, and cereals. Where possible, a few chickens, too, for eggs and occasional chicken stew. It might not be much, but in a lean season it's better than nothing. (I saw in Germany a half dozen years ago that very nearly every home with a bit of land had a kitchen garden out back - a lesson from the two wars. The village where I stayed also had a local farm truck drive through twice a week to sell freshly picked produce - like the ice cream trucks that used to ply our SoCal suburbs.)

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  • Tue, May 25, 2021 - 7:50am

    #11

    roosterrancher

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Apr 16 2010

    Posts: 158

    6

    Food price pressure on Farmers

    We just joined our neighbors in selling our beef cows, market price is WAY down and the price of feed is rising. Even though we have irrigated land it was hard to stay ahead of the drought last year.

    I wish like heck I could join the tribe in Swoope, we will be trying to squeak a profit out of our market garden and orchard.

    I join Travis in enthusiasm for high tunnels or greenhouses, we are even growing peaches under cover. Hail frequency seems to be increasing in these mountains, one good storm can put us out of business for the year. Last year we froze out six weeks early, the year before it was only a month. Tunnels are not cheap but it is about the only thing we can do to guarantee a harvest. We now have 8 high tunnels, they seem to be getting bigger as we go! Our first was 10 x 20, our latest is 30 x 100.

    Consider forming an LLC and taking some produce to market as you build your food forest, infrastructure is not cheap and it is good fun to get a tax break while building your resilience.

    Have a blast and tip a craft brew for me!

    Rob

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  • Tue, May 25, 2021 - 10:17am

    Jeanne

    Jeanne

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 19 2020

    Posts: 30

    0

    Jeanne said:

    Jeff, just sent you a PM. Thanks, Jeanne

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  • Tue, May 25, 2021 - 11:44am

    #13

    dcm

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Apr 14 2009

    Posts: 146

    2

    “Cover” crops

    I’m no farmer and I’m no microbiologist but I have been gardening for over twenty years. I live in the northwest but grew up in California - a place that recently became and soon will no longer be one of our nation’s bread basket. Along with Chris, who I’ve followed since 2009, I’ve learned a great deal from Geoff Lawton, Toby Hemenway, Eliot Coleman, Vandana Shiva, Mark Shepherd, Brad Lancaster, PA Yeoman, Bill Mollison and others. My expertise is criminal law and sadly I believe much of our predicament has more to do with crime and selfish, sick and powerful people than anything else.  I will second a vote for covering your crops when it’s needed. It goes a long organic way toward holding water or keeping it  off leaves in winter,  deflecting pests, warming soil, and as the folks at Singing Frogs Farm ( guests on this site) so powerfully prove, is essential to year round multi crop, no bare soil production. I produce year round at the 47 lattitude with no additional heat. One of the most interesting productions I’ve tripped upon lately is Russ Finch’s Oranges in the Snow - cheap sustainable geothermal production  Like Lawton’s work in Jordan I wonder if Finch’s concept can work in the reverse to assist growing in the desert - shade cloth, cool ground air, water retention with very little energy. Can temperate climate crops be grown in high heat areas with some of this technique?

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  • Tue, May 25, 2021 - 12:26pm

    #14
    TWalker5

    TWalker5

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Mar 13 2020

    Posts: 151

    1

    TWalker5 said:

    Sure wish I could make this, but it’s all the way across the country for me.

    My wife and I have a decent garden going, six 4x8 raised beds.  But the recommendations for a greenhouse and/or tunnels rang a bell for me.  It really does seem like the weather is getting stranger all the time and our current set up is barely a drop in the bucket of our yearly consumption  I know basically nothing about greenhouses and tunnels and I’m wondering if you all have some good resources you could point me towards. In that same vein, this seems like a great topic for Samantha to cover.

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  • Tue, May 25, 2021 - 2:16pm

    2donks

    2donks

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jun 13 2009

    Posts: 21

    4

    Cattle Panel High Tunnel

    TWalker5... I built one of these using 2 16'x 50" cattle panels from Tractor Supply (<$30 ea) plus some high quality greenhouse plastic and it's held up well so far.

    This guy has a great channel for all things permaculture and low budget, low effort growing solutions... (He's in Zone 5b, upstate NY)





     

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  • Tue, May 25, 2021 - 2:26pm

    #16

    roosterrancher

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Apr 16 2010

    Posts: 158

    2

    Twalker5

    We have 5 tunnels that we built using these methods, LOVE THEM! Give a look, a good bit of information here.

    https://www.johnnyseeds.com/growers-library/tools-supplies/9018-quickhoops-high-tunnel-bender-instruction-manual.html

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  • Tue, May 25, 2021 - 3:00pm

    IAMMichael

    IAMMichael

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Mar 10 2021

    Posts: 35

    4

    IAMMichael said:

    Travissidelinger-

    I agree that a greenhouse is needed. You can add more to your season if you add geothermal heating to it. I saw a greenhouse in Nebraska on YT and the man was growing citrus and selling it locally in the middle of winter. The idea is to bury a 100 feet of 6" black corrugated pipe every ten feet, coiled 8' deep. At one end place a fan connected to solar panels and have it blow through the pipe. The air circulates under ground and when it merges at the other end it is at 55 degrees, which is what the ground temperature is at the 8' deep level. He uses this during winter to keep the green house at least at 55 degrees and during the summer to cool it, so it works year round and is free after the initial purchase of the pipe, fan(s) and digging the trenches.

    Here is the link:

    https://youtxxx.com/watch?v=ZD_3_gsgsnk

    just replace the x's with ube

     

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  • Tue, May 25, 2021 - 4:30pm

    Julie K

    Julie K

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 09 2020

    Posts: 8

    10

    Aspiring and ready to be homesteaders reluctantly admitting we need help

    Myself and my son's father are trying earnestly to finance a home on some acreage in Michigan. We live in metro Detroit. Just today, we found someone to watch our son and scraped together the gas money to drive almost 4 hours upstate to look at a house on 6 acres. 1 hour into the drive, the realtor called and said the house just received a full cash offer, 10k over asking and the seller would be foolish not to take it. So we turned around. This has happened to every single location in our price range (100k pre-approval). We loosened up our parameters to under 10 acres and to go as far as the upper peninsula, but we just cant compete or catch a break.

    What is happening?

    We sold our house in October of last year, took the profits, invested into supplies for homesteading and have been sitting on that ever since. We barely got pre-approved for a mortgage even though our credit is great. So he's working a 9-5 to keep the lights on and we are cost sharing with a friend in the meantime. I fill my days taking care of our autistic son and learning as much as possible. We will not give up, but its fair to say that nobody in our family understands why we are wanting to do this and are less than helpful.

    I had put aside money for this event, but realized that I can't drive there with our unreliable vehicles and have never had an opportunity to get on an airplane even if I had an enhanced driver's license.

    I suppose my question is, if I was so lucky to be sponsored, can I even get or stay there? Hopefully there is some clever travel information that I have never been privy to that I'm overlooking.

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  • Tue, May 25, 2021 - 7:34pm

    TWalker5

    TWalker5

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Mar 13 2020

    Posts: 151

    1

    Thanks!

    2donks and roosterrancher, thanks so much for the resources!

    RR, those Johnnyhoops are beautiful but they look a bit beyond my current ambition.  We do have room as we are on 9 acres but we live in the high desert so it’s all scrub brush with poor soil.  I think they may also be beyond my physical capabilities to build.

    2donks, that small hoop house looks like it could be the ticket, at least to start, as it’s relatively cheap and doesn’t look too terribly difficult to build.  We get some ferocious winds here and large daily temperature ranges.  The video mentioned that his has held up to wind well.  What’s been your experience?

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  • Tue, May 25, 2021 - 8:21pm

    2donks

    2donks

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jun 13 2009

    Posts: 21

    2

    2donks said:

    TWalker5, we've had some pretty good wind storms and it doesn't budge.  The cattle panels are very strong due to the arch shape and then reinforced with the stud walls on the ends and the plastic stretched tight, it's solid.  If you could orient it so the prevailing winds hit the curved cattle panels instead of the flat ends, that's probably best.

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  • Tue, May 25, 2021 - 8:27pm

    Netlej

    Netlej

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Dec 09 2020

    Posts: 179

    5

    climate

    Dryam - I understand that you have come to your own conclusion wrt Climate Change but with all due respect you do not have the information you need. I understand not wanting to have to believe that us humans might be effing up but.....

    Humans Wiping Out Biodiversity Faster Than Asteroid Explosion That Caused Extinction: Study

    You do realise that perhaps the most important thing that makes this unique, one in a billion+ planet habitable for humans is the sweet spot of CO2 concentration in the atmosphere atmosphere. Too much and we cook, not enough and we freeze. Humans have been pumping greenhouse gasses (ghg) into the atmosphere at an unprecedented rate.

    As far as solar influence all the science shows that the ghg forcing is far greater. If we had 250ppm or less we might get a brief mini cold period if we have a prolonged solar min but we are rapidly heading to twice that. ALso the Sun is seriously waking up.

    The reason for the wild swings in the jet stream/ polar vortex is the warming of the arctic. Normally the Arctic and the lower latitudes are so extremely different in temp that the vortex tightens up and circles the high latitudes only. Now the temps are close enough to collapse the vortex and even split it in two. Colder in the Carolinas than at the north pole is not normal by light year.

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  • Tue, May 25, 2021 - 9:58pm

    dryam2000

    dryam2000

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Sep 06 2009

    Posts: 463

    7

    “To each his own”

    Netlej,

    Debating this topic in a forum like is fruitless.  People can come to their own conclusions.  I’m not out to convince anyone necessarily about the etiology for climate change.  The fact is that climate change it’s all too real and we will likely see worsening weather extremes.

    Fwiw, it’s the magnetosphere that helps regulate the jet stream and when it’s very weak like it is now it gives rise to the very wavy jet stream which extends much further than normal.  The CO2 story explains nothing about the corresponding increase in seismic activity with increased earthquakes and volcanoes.  This year has had a major uptick in both earthquakes and active volcanic activity. GSM explains these things.

    The sun is ‘waking up’, as in sending out coronal mass ejections, as that’s to be expected in the regular 11 year solar cycles. We are early in solar cycle 25.  The 11 year cycles are imbedded within large cycles and many think we are in either a 200 or 400 year version (Dalton Minimum & Maunder Minimum respectively….read some history books on this, history repeats as we live in a universe of cycles).  The sun “waking up” doesn’t mean it’s electromagnetic field is strong.  It’s actually weak and this causes the earth’s magnetosphere to also be weak….it’s connected.  There have been some relatively minor solar flares hitting the earth recently and the energy came through stronger than normal.  The magnetosphere helps protect the earth from these coronal mass ejections, and when it’s weak such as now more energy comes through.  The thinking with the increased seismic activity is that the earth’s core is actually charged plasma, not solid as they both reflect ultrasound waves.  When ionized energy hits the earth it flows through from the magnetic North Pole to the south through the plasma center.  This subsequently causes increased seismic activity.  Electromagnetism has been greatly under appreciated as far as our universe goes.

    I honestly have no interested in debating this with anyone.  I write this for others who might have interest in researching for themselves.  I’m most interested in exchanging ideas, but arguing stuff like this over the web is like talking politics.  I completely agree man has trashed the earth in many ways, but this whole CO2 emission story is simply not accurate IMO.  Bottom line, we all need to grow resilient gardens and be prepared for extreme temperatures when it comes to caring for our animals, etc.  Many animals died when the polar vortex hit Texas this year.

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  • Wed, May 26, 2021 - 12:30am

    #23
    2retired

    2retired

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 20 2020

    Posts: 182

    2

    2retired said:

    I would recommend the book "Fake invisible catastrophes and threats of doom" by Patrick Moore. It make you realize that the media  manipulation and self serving 'untruthies' are part and parcel of the environmental movement too.

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  • Wed, May 26, 2021 - 6:32am

    Kathy

    Kathy

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 21 2020

    Posts: 287

    1

    Greenhouse or EMP protector?

    For the last couple years I’ve been working to build my self sufficiency.  Since the Covid thing started I have expanded.

    Greenhouse and EMP shield are the two things that I feel I should invest in next
    Greenhouse, do I want a seed starting shed (smaller more permanent) or bigger hoop house type thing?

    EMP shield, do they work?  Would a CME take out electrical items that aren’t plugged in? What are the odds a CME will take out all the electrical stuff or is it like a lighting strike?

    If you could only buy one (greenhouse or emp shield) which would you buy?

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  • Wed, May 26, 2021 - 8:59am

    travissidelinger

    Status: Member

    Joined: Nov 17 2010

    Posts: 255

    3

    Climate Change Myths

    The only solution to miss information is better information.

    Here is a great link.  They have taken a lot of time to answer every since standing Climate Myth, about 198 of them thus far.  Many of them are very complex and take time to understand.  Miss information only takes seconds to "not" understand.

    https://skepticalscience.com/argument.php

    Be curious my friend and update incrementally.  But always keep updating.

    -Travis

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  • Wed, May 26, 2021 - 9:00am

    #26
    Earthiest

    Earthiest

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    6

    Greenhouses and Wind

    Hey,

    This comment thread makes me very happy. Seeing so many folks taking control of, at least part, of their food security. If you can't grow a substantial garden, I will put a plug in for CSA's and farmers markets. Having relationships with local growers will be really important moving forward, in my opinion.

    Love all the greenhouse talk, they have certainly been super important for our operation. We currently have four and we're about to add two more big ones (34 x 96). I mentioned this in another thread, but greenhouse kit prices from Rimol have gone up about 25% since December. They are 3-4 weeks out on shipping. Nolts is currently putting folks on a waiting list but won't give a quote for a month and doesn't plan to ship until September. So, if you aren't doing a DIY, you'll want to get a quote/on a quote list ASAP.

    Regarding wind, we've lost two caterpillar tunnels over the years to wind. In our area, 15 -20mph winds with 40mph gusts are common, 20-25mph with gusts to 55+ happen and are becoming more common. So, if you experience anything close to that, I'd suggest a lot of anchors. If you are getting a professional kit, ground posts will likely be driven into the ground 3-4 feet, every 4-6 feet. In our experience, those hold well. If you are doing something movable or built on rails, it gets trickier. T-posts, driven 3-4 feet in the ground work pretty well IF you have enough of them. We are actually about to test a bunch of different anchor options this summer so I can report back on what was the strongest.

    -H

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  • Wed, May 26, 2021 - 9:30am

    LBL

    LBL

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    Joined: Apr 11 2020

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    LBL said:

    >>> For the last couple years I’ve been working to build my self sufficiency.  Since the Covid thing started I have expanded.

    Greenhouse and EMP shield are the two things that I feel I should invest in next
    Greenhouse, do I want a seed starting shed (smaller more permanent) or bigger hoop house type thing?

    EMP shield, do they work?  Would a CME take out electrical items that aren’t plugged in? What are the odds a CME will take out all the electrical stuff or is it like a lighting strike?

    If you could only buy one (greenhouse or emp shield) which would you buy?

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    I would spend 80% of the money on the green house and 20% on EMI protection.

    EMP is rather theoretical - "what happens electromagnetically during a nuclear bomb ?"

    My first exposure to this was in the mid-1980's, working for a radar manufacturer that also made their own high voltage power supplies (to power the radar) and was wonderfully vertically integrated (master of their own manufacturing tech.)

    One of my jobs was to design the "filter" for the inlet power - and to give it "some" EMP hardness.

    I used some enormous Zener-diode like modules about the size of a pack of cigarettes, 3 devices set between 3 different pairs of power lines.

    Theoretically, when a larger voltage appears on the power lines, the Zener-equivalent absorbs energy beyond the line voltage.

     

    In the movie "Ocean's Eleven" they rely on a supposedly similar device called a "Pinch" to knock out the power in Las Vegas.

    That is fiction.  Building a Pinch (EMP simulator) in real life ... You get a micro-EMP effect if you run current through a large DC motor (or other inductive device), and then shut off the power.  The current goes crazy and tried to keep running, creating a big voltage spike that can easily destroy any attached transistors (1000+ volts placed on a transistor that might be rated for 200 volts).

     

    I suggest running electronics off a generator - this shields you from induced voltage on the miles of power line that are connected to your computer.

    OR, an isolation transformer.  A transformer that doesn't step up or step down.  It lets 60Hz through, and blocks everything else.

     

    Another way to protect yourself from an EMP type event (or serious Sun related electromagnetic events) is to have possessions that are less vulnerable.

    e.g. a 1980's vintage Mercedes diesel, instead of a modern car (with all the electronics).

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  • Wed, May 26, 2021 - 9:32am

    JAG

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 26 2008

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    Re: Greenhouse or EMP protector?

    Kathy: If you could only buy one (greenhouse or emp shield) which would you buy?

    Having power generation after an EMP strike (or CME) would just make you a target. Go with the greenhouse because that would make your life better in the here and now.

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  • Wed, May 26, 2021 - 10:06am

    ckessel

    ckessel

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    Climate will always be changing

    Dryam,

    It is curious how the 'climate change' debate roils the emotions so easily. For whatever reason it seems very polarizing. Perhaps it is because it is largely based on beliefs and we have seen how the adherence to ones choice of belief tends to work out.

    During most discussions of that subject it usually comes down to whether it is possible for mankind to actually be able to influence the climate based on human activity. The answer may be both yes and no. It seems that all actions no matter how large or small would create some reaction so the 'no effect' argument is weakened. So then it becomes a 'how much' issue.

    My curiosity is more related to the long cycle of the ice ages. Ice records show that we have undergone about 6 ice age cycles if my memory serves me correctly. I should take the time to find a source but have not done so for this post.  But if the ice age cycles are correct then the question could be framed around the cause of the cycle. Maybe mankind and the conversion of 450 million years of carbon sequestration in a space of say 250 years has put a bunch of co2 into the atmosphere. If that causes 'global warming' then what caused the other 5 carbon/glacial cycles?

    IMHO, trying to have that discussion with a belief based person is very difficult, if not impossible.  All one can do is move on .......... nothing to see here!  🙂

    Coop

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  • Wed, May 26, 2021 - 10:42am

    #30
    MGRS

    MGRS

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    1

    Threaded comments

    Dear Pope Fauci please give us threaded comments on PP.

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  • Wed, May 26, 2021 - 10:50am

    Kathy

    Kathy

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    Kathy said:

    This is a really good point!

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  • Wed, May 26, 2021 - 10:54am

    #32

    dcm

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    Not all cycles are pedaled the same

    Asteroids aside  It’s not the cycle but the speed of the change - which makes a whole lotta sense when you talk about taking a massive amount of matter / energy / time (hundreds of millions of years ) and pump it back into a system in 150-200 years   That’s bound to do something —- unique... and dramatic

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  • Wed, May 26, 2021 - 10:55am

    Kathy

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    I hadn’t even thought about wind

    I’m not sure a hoop house would even work.  We get some pretty good thunderstorms.

    I am leaning towards a shed with some skylights.

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  • Wed, May 26, 2021 - 1:20pm

    #34
    Valenzen

    Valenzen

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    Will this event be video recorded?

    Unfortunately I cannot attend in person. Will any of this get recorded? I am willing to pay for the education. Thanks.

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  • Wed, May 26, 2021 - 2:40pm

    #35

    roosterrancher

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    Joined: Apr 16 2010

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    3

    Hey! NO HAY!

    A heads up, no grass hay is to be had in our area, no thoughts as to when it might be available. I am feeling pretty lucky to have sold our beef cows into a down market. The commodity crunch is real!

    Wind is a booger here in our mountains, a 100 mile per hour gust last year knocked out our power for 5 days. Our tunnels did fine amazingly enough, we expect wind and snow load and have internally braced them accordingly.

    Rethinking our planting this year with our chickens in mind.....

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  • Wed, May 26, 2021 - 2:46pm

    robie robinson

    robie robinson

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    Hey no hay

    millet and sorghum both tolerate drought and will keep chickens happy.

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  • Wed, May 26, 2021 - 4:01pm

    Netlej

    Netlej

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    Chicks dig it

    Amaranth is good too. Grows like crazy here in Willamette Valley. I throw the whole plant in with the chickens.

    "In a two-year study, Pullins et al. (1997) looked at the potential of five cropping systems in which amaranth was paired with small grains and brassicas. This study concluded that net returns were high for wheat-amaranth and canola-amaranth croppings on the basis of average yield levels. Such combinations may also decrease the incidence of pests and diseases by breaking pest cycles. The use of a winter cover crop may also reduce soil erosion with little or no added equipment costs."

    https://eorganic.org/node/8100

    Also my flock eats pine and spruce needles quite often.

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  • Wed, May 26, 2021 - 10:00pm

    travissidelinger

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    travissidelinger said:

    What is happening?

    Julie,

    Basically city people are starting to realize they are screwed.  The cities are too large, need extensive supply chains, and large amounts of resources every day to keep things going.  What we are seeing now is only the beginning.  Eventually when these unsustainable supply chains completely break down things will get really serious.   People will be fleeing city for their lives like refugees, and those folks in the country only have so many resources to share.  How long will they be welcoming before they say "enough"?

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  • Wed, May 26, 2021 - 10:23pm

    dryam2000

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    Always changing

    ckessell,

    I completely agree climate is always changing.  The earth is always in flux and we are always in repeating cycles.  Sometimes it changes more dramatically than others.  There’s no denying the past 2-3 years there’s been more extremes in weather than the past few decades.  I completely believe in science and data.  I also try to be very careful in distinguishing correlation from causation.  I have not heard a detailed description of the exact mechanisms of exactly how high CO2 emissions cause climate change.  Thinking simply, heat up a soda/beer and open it up.  More CO2 is released.  Additionally, is the earth’s weather more likely tied to man-made effects over the past 150 years, or is it more likely that weather is more affected by the sun which is millions times larger & is the ultimate source of 100% of earth’s energy?  There’s a lot of science regarding solar cycles.  NASA even has YT videos on the 11 year cycles, but they only say what the impacts are on space travel, and nothing on the impacts of earth.  Its kind of curious why there’s no mention to potential effects on earth if you ask me.  Its really not all that complicated as far as determining sun activity.  Simple devices can determine sun spots which are a good proxy for solar activity.  These regular 11 year sun cycles have been known about for decades or more.  It’s now known there’s a direct link between solar activity and increased seismic activity.  I love science, and live my life by it.  I also change my thinking immediately if confronted with new validated information that no longer jives with my prior thinking. I’m an electrical engineer and trained astronauts prior to going into medicine.  My hope is for people to be self-motivated to learn about this world on their own, and come to their own conclusions.  Self arrived at conclusions are most valid IMO.  IMO, tway too many people want a simple answer from someone else rather than studying a topic for themselves.  Society is filled with bogus information.  IMO, it’s most prudent for folks to be as self-reliant as possible in all aspects of life, and this includes being intellectually ambitious.

     

    In regard to CME’s, they are a very real threat given the weak magnetosphere.  I need to do more investigation on this, but I think the take home point for now is that people should keep the threat of a CME impairing the electrical grid in the baxk of their minds.  I’m not sure if there is much that can be done specifically as a large EMP could take out many electronics.  My gestalt is that one should be somewhat prepared in the even the elctrical grid goes down…such as a back source for your well pump, heat for cooking, etc.  There are only so many things one can prepare for and only so much money to do so.  An EMP event is something I think about, but it’s lower on my list as far as priorities.  Look up the “Carrington Event” to get an idea of what is possible.  The concern now is that with a weaker magnetosphere a smaller CME could cause an equivalent amount of damage.

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  • Thu, May 27, 2021 - 1:08pm

    travissidelinger

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    travissidelinger said:

    My gestalt is that one should be somewhat prepared in the even the elctrical grid goes down…such as a back source for your well pump, heat for cooking, etc.

    A well pump takes of lot of energy, and in the event of a world with much less or a grid that goes down and stays down, you may not have many good options.  Water is everything.  If you don't have clean water you won't stay there for long.

    A gas powered pump or generator will eventually run out of gas.

    Solar or wind power require hefty components, aka three phase 220VAC with a high starting current draw.  And you would need to keep all those components working over the years.  That's where Chris's advise to buy duplicates many be very important.  I just bought two extra charge controllers and an extra inverter.

    If you can, I would recommend installing a manual hand pump on your well.  Or plan for the day when you need to remove the pump and fetch water up the well by hand.  My guess is a weighted 1 litter bottle might work.

    Also, use surface water for everything else that doesn't needs to be sterile, like taking a shower, washing things, watering the garden, watering the goats, etc.  Rains barrels are easy to install.  Save the well water for drinking.  Doing that could make a generator situation last a lot longer.

    If you have a well that is very deep, you many want to really consider adding other water sources in advance, like a pond or lots of rain water collection.

    As for other important grid down items if you don't have an off grid system already

    • Eat everything in your frig and freezer before they spoil, then just get rid of them.  Maybe in the winter you could pack the freezer box with ice and keep stuff frozen for a few months.
    • After water, lighting is number two on my list.  Small solar rechargeable batteries and CREE flash lights are pretty good.  Just keep in mind you are going to use these every single night.  That gear need to last and have backups.
    • Cell phones are super nice, but use a lot of energy.  Single 100W solar panel can keep your cell phone recharged.  Eventually the towers may good down.
    • Communications with neighbors over security events will become very important.  Just get a small HAM radio like the UV-5R
    • Get some board games, you many have to hunker down in bad weather, and things will get boring.  Reality, most of the time you will be 100% busy surviving.
    • Get use to heating water and cooking over wood heat.  Make sure you have a working wood stove already installed before SHTF.
    • Security systems - depends on what you have.  You many want some minimum items for a while, like motion activated lights.  But keep in mind, if you have lights and everyone else does not... people will take notice.
    • All the other electronics that you think are important, just toss them.  You don't need a mixer, you don't need a microwave, you don't need a TV, you don't need an air conditioner.  A special note on air conditioners in wet-bulb conditions, you do need an air conditioner or you will die.  Maybe you can stay in a cool basement until the conditions pass.

    Just some thoughts.

    -Travis

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  • Thu, May 27, 2021 - 1:23pm

    thesecuritygirl

    thesecuritygirl

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    Travis, great post

    Travis, thanks for sharing.  Your prep talk gets me anxious as hell but I realize our backs are against the wall and time is a ticking.....

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  • Thu, May 27, 2021 - 9:14pm

    travissidelinger

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    Fireplaces and heating water

    Get use to heating water and cooking over wood heat. Make sure you have a working wood stove already installed before SHTF.

    I was thinking more on this.  Heating water will probably be the number one thing you need lots of energy for.  We are still building our place, but I'm going to plan to put in two stoves.  One will be a rock mass heater for the winter and designed to maximize the heating effect.  The second will be a pot belly stove for cooking in the summer.  The last thing you want on a hot day in August is to start a fire in the house.  We could put the pot belly stove on the porch, or I was thinking of encasing it mostly in a brick box and insulating the sides.  Another idea I'm thinking of is to have one of the Amish stainless steal guys build us a bigger version of a Kelly Kettle that could hold maybe 10 gallons of hot water.

    Solar hot water is another good idea, 3/4 of the year.  I will probably explore that next year.

    Our Amish builder keeps a large stainless steal kettle (probably 30 gals) heated most of the time in their house.  It is not insulated though.

    The more efficiently you can heat water, the less wood you will need.

    Curious what others are thinking of here.

    -Travis

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  • Thu, May 27, 2021 - 11:27pm

    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

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    well pump

    I wish my well was shallow enough for a hand pump -- my pump is at 180ft.

    Anyway, I have experience running a well pump in grid down conditions, years of it.  My previous well pump was 110Volt, and soft start.  It was a grundfos.  I had no problem running this off of my inverter/solar setup when the sun was out or off of batteries.  I have a small solar electric system, and very little battery storage.  I did this for many years.

    I just changed to a different grundfos pump, an SQFlex, and this pump can run off of any power source, pretty much.  110V AC, 220V AC, DC voltage 30-300V, generator... it is an expensive pump.  It ws just recently installed and at the moment is connected to the grid power, although it is realy just off right now, I havent let it run for weeks, I have alot of water in my new storage tanks.  I am going to have it run off of direct DC, just hook up 2 or 3 solar panels in series to it and it will run when the sun is out.  There is a float switch in the water tanks so it wont run when the tanks are full.

    I have been running it alot just gravity feed to the house and garden, and that is fine, not great, but it will work fine if needed.  An idea for a situation with no elevation change is to just run the well to pressure tank, if you dont need alot of water storage ( living energy farm does this with 2 very large pressure tanks  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5Wk7inoIxI&t=18s)  That way there is water to the house at night.  Another idea is to have the house pressure pump also a direct DC pump, with a 40-60 gallon, so normal sized, pressure tank after it, so at night there is some pressurized water, then you can get gravity feed when that runs out.

    My area will be very hard in a very long term collapse scenario to have water.  Although, there are quite a few very shallow wells for houses by mine.  Those people do not have hand pumps.

    I second having a wood stove for backup or to use all the time.  The blogger at this site uses a woodstove with a built in oven for both house heating and cooking, which is a nice combo. https://www.low-carbonlife.org/post/ode-to-my-broadfork?postId=73e00b51-8327-45af-94c4-7497943c9585. I have a Lopi Endeaver, which I do cook on top of, and heats the house well, but no oven.

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  • Thu, May 27, 2021 - 11:42pm

    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

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    sun oven but refrigeration...

    The best thing to do to cook when you dont need the heat from the woodstove is to use a sun oven or two outside in the sun.  You do not need to be at home all day to cook with a solar oven.  I used to use it when I had to be out all day, I would just put  the food in the oven, and set it at about mid day sun point or later, with experience this is easy to estimate.  It is very very hard, usually impossible to burn in a solar oven.  ANd, the food stays warm in the solar oven even after it gets dark.  SO I would come home to dinner done and hot in the solar oven, and it would be dark outside.

    Other things I have done in absolute power outages, is I have used my portable rocket stove outside on a table on the deck to heat up a cast iron pan to make naan bread to go with the sun oven cooked main dish.  I have also run various appliances off of batteries over the years, so off of the solar system.  Things like an electric kettle for hot water for breakfast, or a toaster.  Last winter I tested out using a single burner induction burner.  That heated hot water faster than the electric kettle.

     

    What I am trying to figure out right now is the refrigerator dilema.  I need to buy one, as mine was lost in the fire aftermath.  I have considered the chest freezer looking refrigerator, off of direct Dc solar panel, like living energy farm does.  Other people on you tube  seems to say these have moisture problems, although I do not have humid summers here, so I dont know.  There are also DC refrigerators that are upright, standard fridge on bottom, freezer on top.  This would not have the moisture problem, but will lose the cold faster than the chest design.  I would like it if the refrigerator was not dependant on my solar electric/battery back up system as my solar system ( not the batteries) is old.

     

    Anyone here have thoughts about refrigeration ?

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  • Fri, May 28, 2021 - 7:14am

    Andy in the Sun

    Andy in the Sun

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    Andy in the Sun said:

    Well, maybe it's worth looking in to the way the old Greeks 2000 years ago kept things cool... with frozen underground caves.

    But I agree, not easy to apply everywhere.

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  • Fri, May 28, 2021 - 8:41am

    LesPhelps

    Status: Silver Member

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    Raise some protein

    Protein hype is one of the biggest misunderstandings supporting the Standard American Diet (SAD).  97% of the US gets more than enough protein, around 3X the recommended daily allowance (RDA) and that includes vegetarians and vegans.  To be protein deficient in the US, you almost have to be calorie deficient or eat nothing but highly processed foods.

    Virtually all vegetables have enough protein, several, like broccoli, have more protein per calorie than any meats.

    Meat is considered high quality protein because it takes less energy for your body to convert it to the proteins you need.  That’s one reason vegans can eat more calories and stay thin.  It may also be why cancer cells grow so well on an omnivore diet.  Animal protein seems to be a good cancer growth medium.  In gardening terms, I think of it as cancer fertilizer.

    The RDA deficiency we don’t talk about is fiber, which only comes from plant foods.  97% of the US is fiber deficient exacerbating digestive issues and colon cancer.  It’s not a minor deficiency.  The average American gets around 1/3 of the RDA.

    Animal agriculture is an order of magnitude inefficient.  Think of it as taking 10X the land, water, energy and effort compared to growing plant based nutrition.

    I have a friend who still lives in the 60s.  He will tell you that subdivisions and automobiles are two of humanities biggest mistakes.  I disagree.  I’d have to say overpopulation is first and retaining an omnivore diet decades after it became clear that vegan is far healthier, for both individuals and the planet, is second.  Nothing else is close.

    This is long winded enough.  I’ll leave the morality of concentrated animal feeding operations (CAFOs) for another day.  I know the grass fed hype, but there simply aren’t enough arable acres on the planet.  As Dr. Bartlett said, do the math.  Takes perhaps an hour.  CAFOs are necessary, if a fair portion of 7.9 billion people on the planet want meat as the main entree on their plate.

     

     

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  • Fri, May 28, 2021 - 3:12pm

    l m bach

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    For heating water--this is what the Amish already make....

    Have to finally chime in...I have been reading PP for a long while but know now is the time to join up and join in.

    I was so thrilled when my research led me to this item. I don't want to re-invent the wheel so...

    Outdoor food cooker canner is often used to heat water--a lot of water.

    Outdoor Food Cooker | Canner

    https://www.cottagecraftworks.com/outdoor-food-cooker-canner

    This is convertible from wood to propane.

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  • Fri, May 28, 2021 - 4:44pm

    l m bach

    l m bach

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    Hand pulling water from a modern well

    There's a product called an Amish well bucket--ready made at Lehman's Hardware or there are plans for a diy on Mother Earth News.

    Not the easiest labor wise but water security at a low cost. It fits in a 4" well pipe and can possibly be used without pulling the pump and wires. Haven't tried it with the pump in place. Does it work?

    I was "lucky" that my old well pump died 2 years ago and I was able to test how this works before the plumber put in the new pump. Not fast with 120' of rope but brought up 1 1/2 gallons in not much more than a  minute or two. Most semi-deep hand pumps only pump a little more than that. I have put aside dedicated rope, pulleys and some  supplies to make a frame. All for less than a two hundred dollars. Now let's hope we never need it.

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  • Fri, May 28, 2021 - 6:24pm

    MKI

    MKI

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    Joined: Jan 12 2009

    Posts: 350

    1

    Deep hand pump

    I have a hand pump at 165'; simple pump. Works great.

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  • Fri, May 28, 2021 - 6:26pm

    Realteal

    Realteal

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    Posts: 14

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    Are your referring to 'EdibleAcres' YT blog? It is GREAT!

    I think this is who you mean...

    https://www.youtube.com/user/EdibleAcres

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  • Fri, May 28, 2021 - 8:29pm

    #51
    Rick

    Rick

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    Joined: Jul 19 2020

    Posts: 48

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    PolyFace Event

    Hi Tribe - Not sure if I am suppose to "announce" attendance. We signed up tonight for Polyface. Making hotel reservations now.  We are some of those city folks that know we need to do something for many of the reasons discussed here. So much to learn and so little time.

    Rick

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  • Fri, May 28, 2021 - 8:45pm

    #52
    robie robinson

    robie robinson

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    Joined: Aug 25 2009

    Posts: 1154

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    Simple pump?

    Having a high water table, we are blessed. Our simple pumps, with DC motor, has been active for 9 yrs. replaced wiring and had to rebuild the housing as my cattle break thru and do their rubbing on the pump.

    I am a reluctant and poor typist so pm me if  you want more info.

    simple pumps are for the long emergency.

    i am going to jerry rig a windmill to one to irrigate my garden.

    husband father farmer optometrist

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  • Sat, May 29, 2021 - 12:07am

    Netlej

    Netlej

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    Joined: Dec 09 2020

    Posts: 179

    6

    I choose not to "believe" in gravity. So can I fly?

    ckessel - Climate change is NOT a belief system any more than gravity is a belief system. You and people like you wish you can make it go away by not believing in it. I suggest you try that with gravity...find a tall building and ...

    Climate change, AGW, CO2 and the greenhouse effect is rock solid science and has been around just about as long as our understand of gravity. To "believe" you get to decide whether or not to "believe" in it is ignorants on a very high level.

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  • Sat, May 29, 2021 - 2:16am

    Ision

    Ision

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 07 2020

    Posts: 154

    8

    I Love CO2, So Should You.

    I have been involved with Man Made Climate change, caused by CO2, since the 1970s.

    If you think the Earth is heating up due to Man's production of CO2, you are completely detached from just about everything having to do with this subject.

    1.  The Earth has been cooling off for the last 6,000 years with the only rise in the global mean temperatures taking place after the end of the Little Ice Age in the 1850s.  Ever notice all of your temperature graphs start in the mid 1850s?  This is because if those graphs started a few thousand years ago, they would display how Earth has been cooling since the height of the Alta-Thermal, which marks the hottest mean temperatures achieved in an Inter-glacial period.  The hottest it is ever going to get during our present Inter-glacial...is thousands of years in the past.

    The slight warming from the 1850s, until a few years ago, has not stopped continued slide into the planet's next ice epoch...which is due.

    2.  All Human produced CO2, from ALL sources, everywhere on this planet, totals only 18 Parts Per Million per year.   Presently, our atmosphere contains around 418 PPM, of which Nature contributes the vast bulk of this trace gas, or around 400 PPM

    If all of our species magically vanished from Existence, along with ALL of the CO2 our kind produces, it would make absolutely no difference to Earth's climate, whatsoever.  But, reducing our production of CO2, by any degree, would also have absolutely no effect on the Earth's climate, whatsoever.

    The entire "Carbon Footprint" idea is utter nonsense, as is ANY effort to reduce our emissions of CO2.

    3.  CO2 does not cause Global Warming at all.  Even if the current CO2 content in the atmosphere doubles...it would have no Climatic effect at all.   Nothing bad would happen.  No horrific effect would be experienced.  But, the plant life on this planet would be very happy, crops would grow better, plankton would flourish, and oxygen would be added to the air.

    You are simply the victim of deliberate lies and bad science.  But, I cannot blame you for falling for this nonsense...it is being forced fed you for your entire life...you cannot help it.

    In fact, you are probably emotionally incapable of fathoming ANY contradiction to your conditioning on this subject by now.

    4.  There is no such thing as a "Run Away Greenhouse Effect" and never has been.

     

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  • Sat, May 29, 2021 - 3:08am

    VTGothic

    VTGothic

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jan 05 2020

    Posts: 650

    1

    Nice off-grids for an outdoor kitchen

    Wow! What a great find, I m bach. Thanks!

    I already have a grain mill(from Lehman's) that easily converts to hand crank from electric; it's a sweet little machine that lets me grind my grains as I use them. The wood/LP canner is looking really good. It would go nicely in the outdoor kitchen I want to build next summer.

    Like that hand-crank mixer, too.

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  • Sat, May 29, 2021 - 8:16am

    #56
    l m bach

    l m bach

    Status: Member

    Joined: May 01 2021

    Posts: 6

    0

    The Wizard and the Prophet

    The Wizard and the Prophet: Two Remarkable Scientists and Their Dueling Visions to Shape Tomorrow's World.  by Charles C Mann

    A while back my brother in law recommended this book to me--not to persuade me in any particular direction (although he was an Exxon chemist) but because it speaks to how there's science and belief systems and then there's the followers who just keep doubling down with what they assert follows logically. There are facts, yes, but our collective lack of knowledge of what those facts actually indicate and some groups insistence they have the only correct interpretation is what causes the anxiety and discord.

     

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  • Sat, May 29, 2021 - 8:24am

    #57
    ChrisKaz

    ChrisKaz

    Status: Member

    Joined: May 09 2020

    Posts: 21

    0

    Other gardening channels

    Edible acres is a great permaculture channel!

    Here are two more that are producing lots of food on smaller suburban lots of an acre or less:

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCv9ITE5nuShQ37Xd-NVkdcg - hasn't posted in a while but very informative on maximizing production and all the planning that goes into that maximization.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9V_-gqJsZNOy4v_HqbRz3w - smaller "food forest" in a NJ town.

    I'm on two acres but had to adopt these smaller lot techniques because of the enormous deer presence that will mow down anything not fenced in. Slowly expanding to fruit trees and guilds per edible acres. The goal is to get so much planted the deer can't possibly get it all LOL

    Chris

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  • Sat, May 29, 2021 - 10:39am

    azjbpotter@gmail.com

    [email protected]

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 16 2020

    Posts: 3

    Deer are hard to keep out if they want in.  Normal fence will not work.  Playing radeo at night did not work.  Motion lights might help at first but soon they learn not to fear the lights.  Fruit trees attract deer.  Hard to plant much of a garden of things deer don't like.  What has worked for me is electric fence.  The string wire easy to spread and needs to be placed in a way they get into it.  Unplug when you work in the garden.  When deer stop you can start taking part of fence down.  The hotter the shock the quicker the deer learn to respect it.  My garden is about 40X100 and I plant most under black poly with 1/2" pvc piping under poly.  Poly 6'X50'  Hope this helps with your deer problem.

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  • Sat, May 29, 2021 - 11:08am

    ChrisKaz

    ChrisKaz

    Status: Member

    Joined: May 09 2020

    Posts: 21

    Thanks. SO far I've had success without having to add electric but it is a future option for sure. I currently have an 8 foot high deer fence around the garden plots. My fruit trees are individually caged with concrete wire mesh, but I had to add 4inch chicken wire to it to keep them from sticking their noses in to grab what they could. Eventually the hope is the trees will be large enough that I will only need to protect the trunks. I plan to add garlic or allium and some other plants to the guilds as described on the Edible Acres YT channel linked above. He seems to have success without any cages etc.

    Some things the deer don't seem to touch are the wild local black raspberries - they eat some leaves but it doesn't seem to affect berry production and pawpaws.

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  • Sat, May 29, 2021 - 12:05pm

    MKI

    MKI

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jan 12 2009

    Posts: 350

    2

    Simple Pump

    We use our hand operated simple pump as a backup to our standard submersible. Both are set at ~165', side by side, I installed each myself using only my wife to help. Both have lasted 20 years. The water is fairly hard too, and the frost line is over 4' deep, so I've been amazed at the both the reliability and ease of pumping at this depth.

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  • Sat, May 29, 2021 - 5:28pm

    #61

    Arthur Robey

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1937

    2

    The nature of Data

    How many children must a statician sire before he can claim with 67% certainty that he has children?

    How many Titanics must sink before before a sinking is not considered anecdotal?

    How many flying saucers must one see before one believes that they exist?

    The point is that statistics are proof by induction. (Of the nature, "I have seen one thousand swans. They were all white. Therefore all swans are white.")

    24. If any of the one-third who have voted for her wish to go away with her, they may depart with all their live and dead stock, and shall not be the less considered, since the majority maybe wrong as well as the minority.

    My bold. The Oera Linda.

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  • Sat, May 29, 2021 - 7:35pm

    johnplakey@gmail.com

    [email protected]

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jul 29 2020

    Posts: 2

    The weatherman Guide to the Sun by Ben Davidson. Space weather.com, Sky Scholar on You Tube. I can't spell his name. In a nut shell, the weakening magnetic field let in more energy which makes bigger storm, more earthquakes, Volcanos.

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  • Sun, May 30, 2021 - 11:34am

    richcabot

    richcabot

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Apr 05 2011

    Posts: 288

    3

    Don't bank on it

    We had treaties with the Russians on arms limitations which we unilaterally abrogated at the whim of the President.  No Senate vote required.  It seems like a treaty which required a vote of the Senate to ratify should require a similar vote to abrogate but the precedent has been set.  Don't think treaties with Canada can't be disposed of the same way.

     

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  • Sun, May 30, 2021 - 10:08pm

    #64
    chris101

    chris101

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 10 2020

    Posts: 12

    0

    Which hotel are the most people staying at?

    hey all,

    We are going to the event and haven't booked our lodging yet. Just wondering where folks are staying at. Looks like these are the remaining options: Inn at Meadowcroft, Hotel 24 South, Hampton Inn, Blackburn Inn.

    Cheers!

    Chris

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  • Sun, May 30, 2021 - 10:15pm

    Tycer

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Apr 26 2009

    Posts: 331

    1

    Hotel

    We’re at Tru by Hilton

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  • Mon, May 31, 2021 - 3:45am

    dryam2000

    dryam2000

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Sep 06 2009

    Posts: 463

    1

    dryam2000 said:

    Ision,

    You are spot on.  Plants love CO2 just like animal life loves O2.  The oceans release CO2 with higher temperatures; the CO2 fear mongers have it backwards as far as causation goes.  Yes, burning of fossil fuels causes pollution but the pollution effects have been greatly reduced. The CO2 fear mongers like to confuse pollution and CO2 with the burning of fossil fuels to confabulate their propaganda.

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  • Mon, May 31, 2021 - 4:59am

    dryam2000

    dryam2000

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Sep 06 2009

    Posts: 463

    5

    No not rock solid, Netlej

    First, Why did I even post anything in this thread about this?  Was I trying to be an “influencer”?   No, the reason I posted this subject in this thread was so people might expand their thinking when they go to this most excellent homesteading learning experience.  People need to expand their thinking beyond how their weather has traditionally been to how it might be different in the future.  Thinking outside their current box might allow them to ask questions they wouldn’t otherwise think of.  They might listen up more closely when there’s a discussion geared towards people in colder climates when they live in say Mississippi.

    Netlej,

    Simply repeating the theories of AGW, “CO2 emissions and the Greenhouse effect” are rock solid science is the ongoing propaganda line.  If something is said often enough, then people actually start to believe it whether it’s true or not.  Btw, comparing climate change to gravity is ridiculous.  No one debates gravity existing, but the true “why” it exists is a completely different story.  I always become very suspicious when anyone says the something about science is 100% fact.  The true fact of the matter is that science is an ever evolving creature and things that we thought were obvious continuity turn out to be wrong…over, and over, and over again.  Slamming the book closed on a subject in science is the most ignorant act one can do.

    No one can deny very significant climate change isn’t happening right now:  60 year floods in Sydney this year, ongoing extreme 70+ year drought in Taiwan, 90+ year ongoing widespread drought in Brazil, many decades extreme drought in the western US, widespread flooding in southern China, one of the coldest winters on record in Europe this year, the very prolong winter this year in the entire northern hemisphere with record low high temperatures currently in NE US and parts of Canada, extreme hail storms with incredibly large & widespread hail not just in the US but globally, extreme polar vortex this past winter hitting the US, Europe, and China.  The key word in all this would be ‘extremes’.

    Global crop yields have been greatly reduced over the past 2.5 years.

    The key question is “why?”for many reasons.  What can we expect in the coming years to prepare for changes, what might we be able to do about the climate changes if anything, are there other things about our environmental we aren’t considering in addition to the weather?

    First, the global warming narrative is ridiculous as much data has been cherry-picked.  The earth has had fluctuating temperatures since the beginning of time.  Pick the right interval and you can “prove” either global warming/cooling.

    Grand Solar Minimums in the past have mainly caused marked cooler climates and shortened growing seasons in the northern hemisphere.  And, places that have been historically blessed with rain may not get as much as well as the opposite effect.  I am not out to prove to anyone my thinking is right.  I want people to think, and research so they can come to their conclusions.  Resilience and learning is what this website is about.

    So tell me, what part of the Grand Solar Minimum thinking does not fit with the events we are seeing on earth?

    Weather extremes - check

    Increased earthquake activity - check

    Increased volcanic activity - check

    Clear evidence of the sun going through its smaller 11 year solar cycles - check

    Actual evidence from a plethora of history books documenting the period of the Maunder Minimum and Dalton Minimum - check

    Increased passage of solar radiation into our atmosphere (evidence of a weakened magnetosphere) - check

    Events on other plants consistent with solar changes affecting them - check

    One last thing, the narrative of the CO2 fear mongers is that the EV & ESG revolution is going to save the day is the pure bogus BS….need massive coal burning to make solar panels, need massive amounts of raw materials such as cobalt & lithium which the world doesn’t have and would require massive fossil fuel burning to mine, would require an electrical grid dependent on fossil fuels, etc.  This is not my specialty but I’m sure others could join in on the total ridiculousness of that narrative.  So, why the ridiculous narrative on these so-called sustainable forms of energy….because the narratives of  the harmful CO2 emissions all go together?

    So, not trying to hijack any thread, and definitely not trying to convince anyone of anything…..just trying to get people thinking.  Thinking and speaking anything against the centralized singular narratives has become taboo to say the least.  Censorship galore on social media on all sorts of topics.

    There was a day everyone knew the earth was flat…..it was rock solid.

    There was a day everyone knew the sun revolved around the earth…..it was rock solid.

    There was a day the entire medical community knew stomach ulcers were caused by stress (now known to mostly be from infection with a particular bacteria, discovered by a doctor who was ridiculed and the only way he could prove it to anyone was to purposefully drink good doses of this bacteria to purposely give himself gastric ulcers, and then he treated himself with antibiotics for the cure…went from being a total lunatic to a world-renowned & respected researcher).

    Could go on forever.

    #ItsTimeToStartThinking

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  • Mon, May 31, 2021 - 8:27pm

    Rick

    Rick

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jul 19 2020

    Posts: 48

    0

    Rick said:

    Hotel 24 South

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  • Tue, Jun 01, 2021 - 6:32am

    Resilient in KY

    Resilient in KY

    Status: Member

    Joined: Oct 08 2018

    Posts: 8

    1

    Resilient in KY said:

    My husband and I are going to the event. We live in northern KY. If your vehicle can make it down 75 to just past Cincinnati, you are welcome to ride the rest of the way with us. If you're interested, just let me know.

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  • Tue, Jun 01, 2021 - 5:48pm

    agnes xyz

    agnes xyz

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Dec 21 2020

    Posts: 132

    1

    climate change

    The green house effect is old, established science, not something new and political, though it has been made to look so. Check Svante Arrhenius page in Wikipedia and scroll down. He won the Nobel in 1903 for inventing Physical Chemistry, and most of his methods are taught and in use everywhere. He calculated the formula for amount of CO2 in the atmosphere and warming and cooling. His formula is still in use. It's no joke.

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  • Tue, Jun 01, 2021 - 7:30pm

    #71

    sofistek

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 02 2008

    Posts: 784

    4

    Take discussions to the correct place

    This blog post is about a gathering at Polyface Farms. Unfortunately, when anyone mentions climate change, it drags out a lot of misinformation and pointless discussion. There is actually a conversion topic on this site for climate change. The last page of the conversation (so far) is given in this link. Perhaps that is the best place for continuing discussion on climate change.

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  • Tue, Jun 01, 2021 - 7:58pm

    Canuck21

    Canuck21

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Aug 10 2020

    Posts: 336

    0

    Replying to Don't bank on it (#61)

    Oh I am well aware of the risk and the likelihood.

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  • Wed, Jun 02, 2021 - 3:42am

    Mots

    Mots

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jun 18 2012

    Posts: 446

    3

    polyface event

    Rick, thank you for announcing that you signed up for polyface.
    I just did the same. Chris M will now be there: this had a lot to do with my decision.

    Thursday June 24 the day before polyface we have a DIY preppers expo event with free camping and rides to polyface the next morning at Goochland County just West of Richmond.  All are invited for no cost including barbeque social Thursday evening but we need RSVP.  I will do hands on solar electric, a local doctor (former army medic) will teach constructing an optimal first aid kit and covid therapeutics, and others will describe and teach amateur radio etc.
    I hope to create new friendships there and take time to review our common endeavors.

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  • Thu, Jun 03, 2021 - 7:04pm

    #74
    Mots

    Mots

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jun 18 2012

    Posts: 446

    2

    invitation to diy workshop and covid therapeutics review Thurs before and Sunday after Polyface

    Thursday before polyface please come to our DIY prepper fair in Richmond where I have hands on DIY solar electric practice, and one of our own experts will review covid therapeutics.  Also included are ham radio and a presentation by a person involved in the movie Invalidated. https://www.amazon.com/Invalidated-Josh-Malone/dp/B07G2T6YV1  Our theme is self reliant DIY in these other areas, which complement food production as we rebuild within a decaying society.
    AFTER polyface on Sunday please join us at Winchester Virginia  579 Brush Creek Road, Winchester, Va 22603 for an extended hands on DIY solar electric practice where you can buy at cost large solar panels and see how to build your own power box to run electric saws in the woods, using lithium bicycle batteries, and how to install solar panels cheaply etc.  No cost but RSVP

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  • Fri, Jun 04, 2021 - 7:36am

    karenf

    karenf

    Status: Member

    Joined: Oct 02 2010

    Posts: 66

    1

    BBQ and DIY Fair

    Hi Mots - I have just signed up for Joel Salatin's event.  How can I get more information about your BBQ  and DIY Fair?

    Thanks!  I am excited to be getting together with the tribe!

    Karen

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  • Fri, Jun 04, 2021 - 10:49am

    #76

    herewego

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Aug 11 2010

    Posts: 173

    6

    Long term PPer locked out of subscription needs help from tech, wating over a month. Please help.

    Hi PP Folks,

    I've been a subscriber for more than ten years.  I'm not a prolific poster but do follow all content and participate intelligently.  My life has been deeply influence by PP and I was waiting with the rest of you for Chris' return, but have not been able to access my subscription since he came back. I value this community and Chris' input more than any other on the internet.  Being blocked from content and participation because of a technical issue that no-one at PP can be bothered to fix is pretty frustrating.

    Tech people, I have asked for help over a dozen times across all available channels and the issue is not resolved.  My case has apparently been completely dropped.  In April my old, lost CC expired and my payments lapsed.  My bad.  I put in a new payment method and it was accepted but the subscription would not allow me access to any premium content, nor to my fully-paid-for content from the online weekend conference earlier this year.  After repeated begging over many days, I got a response from customer service and they fixed it.  Except no. It didn't work.  Still no premium content for me.

    Now the only way for me to rectify this is to cancel my long standing subscription and start over because here is no way for me to pay using herewego.  No link in my account takes me to a place where payment is possible. It says "manual payment".

    I deserve better than this.  Please fix my account.  Please give me back access to the conference that I paid for.  I am trying to be a paying customer.  I should be a valued, longstanding member of this tribe.

    Chris, your customer service person tried, for a bit, but no-one in your tech or customer service is actually making this right.  It's been over a month.  I do not want to start a new subscription.  It matters that I've been here over a decade.

    Thanks,

    Susan

    PS All you  other members out there - I really, really miss your convos too.  It was very impressive, how resourceful this group was during Chris absence.  Many thanks for the quality of your input.  (Which I can't access now, but hope to soon).

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  • Fri, Jun 04, 2021 - 11:41am

    jerryr

    jerryr

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    Joined: Oct 31 2008

    Posts: 139

    0

    Browser issue?

    I don't know if this is relevant to Susan's plight above, or not. But I've noticed that I can't log in using the native Safari browser on my Mac. I can only log in with Google Chrome.

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  • Fri, Jun 04, 2021 - 11:43am

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1412

    2

    New Tech Team; Please help Susan - she is a member of the tribe.

    Please help.  Thank you, Jim H

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  • Fri, Jun 04, 2021 - 5:46pm

    herewego

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Aug 11 2010

    Posts: 173

    1

    Thanks Jim and Jerryr

    It's not a browser issue.  Something with payments is not working and it should be 1easy to fix on the admin side.  Hoping it's just a matter of finding time to deal with it.

    Appreciate the support, Jim!  I do value this group of lively, informed peeps looking together at the real underpinnings of our situation immensely. Hugely!  Enormously!

    Cheers,

    Susan

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  • Sat, Jun 05, 2021 - 7:13am

    dryam2000

    dryam2000

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Sep 06 2009

    Posts: 463

    0

    Most Important Topic is Impending Climate Change

    sifiatek,

    The Grand Solar Minimum we are entering is by far the biggest predicament that faces the world, and maybe in the history of the world. That’s not being overdramatic.  Covid is a problem, but that story is mostly finished.  What lays ahead with the climate is infinitely more important than what happened this past year with Covid. It’s time to look forward instead of looking through the rear view mirror.

    I’ve tried to warn people here.  PP has been extraordinary from 2008 to late 2020. The reporting on Covid was truly world class, a once in a lifetime chance to do something truly grand and meaningful. But, the next battle is much grander & time is short.

    If you people can’t see the very dramatic changes taking place globally, then there’s no hope….

    100+ year drought in Brazil decimating their second corn crop which some farmers are saying the government agencies have been under reporting the severity, also causing impairment of their power grid from hydroelectric power problems, and causing low  river levels impairing transport of many commodities not just for Brazil but Paraguay & Argentina

    100+ yr drought in Taiwan which is further impairing the global semiconductor shortage as Taiwan is largest producer in the world.

    100+ year drought in entire western US.  Farmers in California are screwed. There’s going to be wildfires galore.  There’s also mounting drought in northern part of US, and excessive rains in southern US potentially leading to very poor US crop production this year when grain stocks are already at 5 year lows.

    Widespread hail storms increasing across the globe.

    Southern China having extreme flooding this time of year when the rainy season is just now starting.

    Places in N. Dakota going from 26 F last week to 104F this week.

    Extreme polar vortexes hitting US, Europe, and China this year.

    Extremes

    Extremes

    Extremes

    I’m done.

    #IWoukdPayAttention

     

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  • Sat, Jun 05, 2021 - 7:32am

    #81
    susuniahill

    susuniahill

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    Joined: Jun 05 2021

    Posts: 2

    0

    susuniahill said:

    <a href="http://www.rupasibangla.in/kolakham.html">best kolkham hotel/best kolkham resorts</a>

    <a href="https://resavenue.com/bookingNew/bookingWizard.book?_target9&locale=en&reqtoken=0MAYR5CDT5">book online best kolkham hotel/best kolkham resorts</a>

    http://www.rupasibangla.in/kolakham.html

    https://resavenue.com/bookingNew/bookingWizard.book?_target9&locale=en&reqtoken=0MAYR5CDT5

    Kolakham village, Wagtail is located down the Lava and can be reached driving through ten KM in the gravel road. The scenic beauty of the road is real visual pleasure as the road is curved through the dense and lash green tropical and alpine trees. If you are lucky you may come across some wild inhabitants of Neora forest.
    On a clear day the majestic view of Kanchanjungja on first sunlight can be a real visual pleasure and a lifetime experience in Kolakham. The wide open view of Neora Valley and Kanchanjungha range from your homestay window is rewarding during your stay in Kolakham. From Kolakham the plush valley and also the rolling hills stretch north as so much the eyes can see. Within the west, they finish at the foot of the Kanchanjanga. In clear weather, the snowy peaks of Kabru, Kabrudome, Kanchanjanga and Pandim stand out against the stretched sky. Nathula and Jelepla passes in Sikkim is seen from Kolakham.
    Kolakham is a paradise for exotic bird lovers, adventure seekers, rock climbers and trekkers. Many trekking routes to Neora Valley and Sikkim originates from this small village. Even one can reach Kalakham from Lava or Rishop by trekking.
    Kolakham offers an array of activities like hiking, trekking and rope traversing to create your keep additional fascinating. You will conjointly relish village walks or nature trails on the picturesque landscape of the region. Expertise an exciting jungle camp at Neora Valley Park, which boasts of its superb variety of species of plants, animals and birds. You can also explore the forests close to Kolakham and hike over the rocks to savour the view of a splendid waterfall.

    http://www.rupasibangla.in/kolakham.html

    https://resavenue.com/bookingNew/bookingWizard.book?_target9&locale=en&reqtoken=0MAYR5CDT5

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  • Sat, Jun 05, 2021 - 10:08am

    #82
    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jun 04 2012

    Posts: 479

    0

    SPAM ALERT - comment #79

    PP admin, pls. delete, thanks!

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  • Sat, Jun 05, 2021 - 10:39am

    Ision

    Ision

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    Joined: Feb 07 2020

    Posts: 154

    0

    Too Bad Extremes In The Weather Is NOT CLIMATE

    No extreme weather event is climate change, and most certainly, NO climate change is known to be the fault of Human activity...whatsoever.

    The 18 ppm of CO2 one can blame Humans with, is totally meaningless, when it comes to Climate on this planet.   Should Man vanish tomorrow from the Earth, the loss of this 18 ppm would not change the climate at all.  In fact, our best equipment would not even be able to detect any change at all...any difference being so slight it would be beyond their sensitivity.

    Oh, and by the way, extremes in both cold and warm weather, and changes in rain patterns, is usually associated with climatic cooling...which is exactly what the planet has been doing since the peak of this current Inter-Glacial.

    Call me when the mean temps again reach, and then surpass, what they were 6,000 years ago.  Even then, the meaningless amount of CO2 we make would not come into play...at all.

     

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  • Sat, Jun 05, 2021 - 11:50pm

    dryam2000

    dryam2000

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Sep 06 2009

    Posts: 463

    0

    ?

    GSM will undoubtedly reduce global temperatures by 1-2 F.  GSM causes extremes in weather…call it climate or whatever you want.  It’s erratic weather which leads to crop failures which already start to become impaired because GSM shortens the growing seasons by prolonging winter.  CO2 has nothing to do with it.  It’s the sun, not man that’s causing these changes.  Sure, man has polluted much of the world but that’s not what’s causing the change in weather patterns.

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  • Sun, Jun 06, 2021 - 2:06am

    Mots

    Mots

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jun 18 2012

    Posts: 446

    1

    BBQ and DIY fair, multiple social lunch/dinner get togethers before and after polyface

    KarenF

    THURSDAY BEFORE POLYFACE   no cost, but RSVP needed (PM me and Michael will send you detailed info and response form; this is not open to the public)
    LOCATION: 559 Church Hill Road
    Manakin-Sabot, Va. 23103 (about 10 miles West of Richmond)

    TIME:
    Wednesday June 23 camping overnight and we can pick up people from Richmond airport
    Thursday 11 am through evening DIY festival
    12 noon to 2 PM I have solar energy hands on workshop
    BBQ evening social, much food provided by local member Robie
    sandpuppy has 1 hour presentation about therapeutics and discussion
    Thursday night camping, I and others leave for Polyface early Friday morning

    SUNDAY AFTER POLYFACE No entry fee but RSVP
    LOCATION 579 Brush Creek Road, Winchester, Va 22603

    TIME: SUNDAY June 27 from 12:00 through evening: lunch and dinner
    I have solar electric workshop focusing on non-theory hands on
    sandpuppy has therapeutics review and discussion session

    no entry fee but RSVP (send me PM)

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