“Technology will save us!”

That’s the most common pushback we receive to Peak Prosperity’s concerns about the dangers of exponential resource depletion, overpopulation, and overindebtedness/overconsumption.

And it’s understandable: technological advancement has achieved wonders for mankind’s standard of living at an accelerating pace over the past several centuries. Billions have been lifted out of poverty. Human health and longevity (covid-19 aside) have been greatly boosted. We have conquered the earth, seas, air and space.

Are the pessimists wrong to bet against human ingenuity?

To explore that question head-on, Chris sits down this week with Sergey Young, longevity expert and founder of the Longevity Vision Fund and “right hand man” to Peter Diamandis of Singularity and XPRIZE fame.

A self-described technology optimist, Sergey has created a $100 million fund to counteract the damaging consequences of aging. He’s set for himself the goal to live to be 200 years old (in the body of a 25 year old) and to find an affordable way for everyone else to do the same.

Interestingly, while Sergey is much more sanguine about society’s future prospects than we are here at Peak Prosperity, he acknowledges that the pragmatic realists are a necessary ‘yin’ to the tech passionistas’ ‘yang’.

For an optimistic futurist, Sergey is surprisingly respectful of and in agreement with our focus on sustainability and on practical models for living within our means. He admits that technology isn’t a cure-all, and goes as far to say that if the future were simply left to the starry-eyed dreamers, we’d take a lot of leaps of faith that wouldn’t end well.

For one of the most balanced conversations on this topic we’ve yet experienced, click the play button below to listen to Chris’ interview with Sergey Young (43m:32s)

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Transcript

Chris Martenson: Hello everyone, and welcome to this Peak Prosperity Podcast. I am your host Dr. Chris Martenson. And really very excited for this podcast today. Covid 19, as you know I’ve been covering that for almost 100 days now. And trying to figure out what’s happening. It’s a medical mystery. It’s a political mystery. It’s upended so many things. Thirty-eight kilobits of information. Single strand of RNA has proven to be this complex foe that’s made a mess of some complex systems. And chief among that though, you know western healthcare has really been proven to fail in a couple ways, particularly out here in the United States. Sad to say it’s mostly about the politics and the economics of it. But, one of the things that’s really occurred to me is the way in which we’ve seen this incredible focus on we need a vaccine, we need a vaccine, we need a vaccine. That’s Louis Pasteur’s germ theory. There’s a germ and we have to fight it. Almost entirely missing is the other side of that story, which is the so-called terrain theory of the French, which is our bodies is the terrain. Our bodies fight things off all the time. That’s part of it, right?

So that needs to be both, yes. There’s this germ we have to confront with policies and with vaccines and how can we take best care of our bodies? So I wanted to go right to the source. I want to talk with somebody very exciting, Sergey Young. He is out in the forefront of talking about how we can be as healthy as we can be. And his mission, and Sergey I’ll let you say this in case I botch it here but the mission is to find a way for people to live 200 years in the body of a 25 year old. So, right at the forefront of figuring out what can our bodies do? How can we best optimize the terrain that already exists? Because our bodies are amazing machines. They are. I want to bring that part of the conversation in, and as well talk with an inspiring futuristic sort of a person who is very thoughtful. And this is a time where we need a lot of thoughtfulness. Because everything is being upended. Sergey, welcome to the program.

Sergey Young: Thanks Chris, and you know thanks to everyone. I’m very excited to be here today with you.

Chris Martenson: Well, let’s jump right in it. What has – Covid 19, obviously this is what’s on everybody’s mind right now, here today in April of 2020. What sort of lessons are you drawing from Covid at this point, Sergey?

Sergey Young: Yeah, I mean like for everyone, first few weeks of what is happening, was a complete shock to me. And then I started to realize that it just makes an opportunity to learn a few lessons. So I started to draw some of them, and I started to share with my network. And I’m very happy to share it today. Well first of all, we just need to realize and it’s very personal story. So, I’ve been to North Pole a few years ago, and last year I went to South Pole. And so when you’ve done both poles you come out thinking, so what’s next?

And I was seriously considering go to Mt. Everest. I’ve done some hiking when I was particularly young, during student time. But when I was looking at statistics, what’s your mortality rate? What’s your risk rate if you go to climb Everest? At this time it was somewhere between 5-6%. So if you look at Coronavirus mortality rates today in some of the countries, well it’s exactly figure like that.

So I think – and it does support the idea that we’re living in during – kind of extraordinary period of our life, is that we all need to climb our personal Everest these days, right? It does require a lot of thoughts, a lot of resilience and a lot of wisdom. There’s so many things that we cannot fix. But I want to concentrate on the things that we can fix. So, a few lessons which I find particularly striking.

Number one, you know our civilization is so fragile. I mean it’s amazing, we’re so used to live in a comfortable world. And then until we realize just a month ago that you know, the safety was perceived safety. This is before the Black Swan, before the next very unexpected show. And it’s time to embrace uncertainty. It’s time to embrace that we can be and we will be fragile in certain period of our life. You know, us as human beings and us as civilization; so that’s kind of number one.

Number two, I was listening to, I think it was, Erik Prince a few years ago. And he’s obviously you know, involved in the military stuff. And it was public lecture, but he was quoting someone saying it’s not what you know will kill you. And this is about what you know, sometimes we do expect crisis from the direction that we know. But, the best and the massive crisis – I mean they actually going to come from the direction that you don’t expect them to do so.

I remember December 2019 I was speaking at a huge conference. I think it was in LA Public Library. And there was a lot of young people in the audience. And the question was, “Well Sergey, you say you expecting crisis in year 2020.” And then I was expecting the crisis since 2014. So you know, I finally reached the point when my forecasts matched the reality after six years. And then economy is booming, unemployment is particular low rate. World is going to be young and beautiful. Like there’s no signs of anything crisis like coming to us. And then my point was that Black Swan will arrive exactly from direction that we not expecting it to arrive from. So that’s – and it’s very humbling. It’s change our definition of our life. Life for ourselves, for our families, for the loved ones and sometimes you just need to be wise to understand that just so many things that we don’t know. And we don’t expect it to happen so you know, think about known, unknown. So, that’s my lesson number two. Are we going in the right direction Chris?

Chris Martenson: Sure.

Sergey Young: A few more lessons to share –

Chris Martenson: Let’s keep going.

Sergey Young: Share with the audience today. Lesson number three is that specifically in US and in western culture, the culture and cult of money is specifically in the last two decades became pretty much a driving force. And you know, I am part of it, right? We are all part of it to certain extent. But I think this kind of Everest climbing type of mortality risk and what is happening around us and with us today give us another lesson. Is that we start to learn and come to the basics, what actually – what matters the most to us? And I’m talking about loved ones. I’m talking about health and you remember the old saying, health is wealth. And it’s striking. I have few friends who just hated their jobs. You know, hated their office environment. And they were not particularly positive people when they go to like Monday morning and running to the office. And I just had a chat with a few of them last week. And they were like “You know what?” I actually realized the thing that I kind of hated the most is actually was the – my job and my time in the office was matter of my social realization. Was the driving force behind my professional development, and personal development, as well. And it was amazing how many happiness and self-fulfillment, you know, our jobs. And all our other activities brought to us.

So, and actually practicing gratitude and being grateful that we can see our family friends. We can take care of our dogs or cats as it’s coming back to the basics, what makes us human and what makes us happy. So that’s been amazing discovery for me and amazing lesson, as well.

A couple final two thoughts on the lessons from Coronavirus. I remember my shock, specifically in the first two weeks. I was basically stuck at home. And I was alone. I mean obviously with family, with my loved ones. But it’s completely different feeling that you cut the social bond that you have in the physical environment, with your friends, with colleagues, with you know, people in the audience like we see today. But in particular conference or portfolio companies that we invest in, which work with longevity technologists. So this drama, this stroke of self-isolation is actually is an opportunity for all of us to reconnect with ourselves, you know. Be comfortable with being alone, being comfortable with being fragile human, right? And then you, know focus on our external dialog. This great research done by Barclay Investment Band last year. And what I’ve discovered that before invention of smart phones, our attention span was like 15 seconds. And you know goldfish in a bowl; attention span was like 9 seconds. You know after we get our smartphones, you know our attention span is actually 8 seconds. It’s shorter than the fish in the bowl attention span. So, it’s time to do digital detox. And it’s time for us to reconnect with ourselves.

And then you know final lessons for me is, you know, if Greta Thunberg was not enough, you know, for the wakeup call for all of us. What is happening? I think Mother Nature is just sending us a signal, yeah? We were so irresponsible in terms of how we treat environment, how we treat Mother Nature, how we treat the planet. And you know, the fortunate outcome of, extremely unfortunate is sad times, when we lose so many people. Is you know, the environment is becoming clearer. I live nearby to the park. And you know I have an opportunity to walk with my dog for a few minutes a day. And it’s just amazing the amount of biodiversity. The types of birds that I’ve seen this spring is just amazing, right? And again, it’s a very sad time for many of us, and there’s so many lives lost, there’s so much uncertainty and fear in the air. But I think it’s time to get this wakeup call from Mother Nature.

So, coming back and finalizing my story about my Coronavirus lessons is that we just need to embrace and see the fact that when we face the risk of death, similar to what we would face if we would climb the highest mountain on earth. It’s a time for wake up calls, and it’s a time for lessons for all of us.

Chris Martenson: Sergey, thank you for all of that. And I’ll do my best to remember what you said nine seconds ago. And you know it was – I think it was 2009. I might be off a year or so. I was speaking in O Town, in Orlison, Norway and I have this talk I give. This is the subject of what I really want to get to with you in part. If I have this talk. I talk about exponentials but from a dangerous standpoint, right? So I talk about exponential resource depletion. The fact that ecosystems are complex creatures, meaning we can’t predict how they’re going to behave. They have emergent behavior so we’re messing with billions of years of evolution, and 100 million year old ecosystems. And so I have sort of a cautionary tale, and so I give my whole song and dance and I learned that people in Norway don’t do jokes quite the same as we do in America. So it was a very stony faced audience, you know? I wasn’t sure I was being received.

And then the person who spoke right after me is Peter Diamandis, who you know very well. And he was speaking a very different talk about exponentials that was the other side of that, right? And it was a little awkward, but we both said “Good talk” and went our ways. And I have to say in the 10-11 years since I think there’s – we’re both kind of right. We’re both kind of wrong.

Sergey Young: Exactly.

Chris Martenson: And so, I was wondering you know, what’s your view on – what is the role of technology? We’re learning it’s a two-edged sword. It has some promise but there’s some things it can’t do. So, where do you fall on this idea are things exponentially better or are the risks accumulating?

Sergey Young: Yeah. So what do I think on that? I think if the world gonna to be created or you know full of – or can consist of 100% of people like Peter Diamandis and me, we will be in very dangerous category. Right? So we actually need you Chris. We need the public, right? To provide the balancing act to look at the everyday mention. And in particular the dimensions of technology, okay? So, my paradigm tha,t you know, no one on this planet will be able to see, you know, all the upsides and downsides of technology. And it’s huge work of collaboration, of us listening to each other. And looking at you know, what can go wrong? How we balance that, right? How we regulate that; or how we don’t get access to that.

And that’s – I’m preparing my TED-ex talk now, it’s called Morality of Immortality. And funny enough, you know I’m not huge fan of immortality by the way, right? I do think if you take that from the human life cycle. I mean we will lose our civilization, right? But funny enough, we in a few decades of time will reach the point when we ready for, you know, indefinite expansion of our life span, by number of reasons.

One, medical technology will give us an opportunity to do that through replaceable body parts, human brain - A.I. integrations. So that’s going to be technically possible.

Number two; I’m great believer that we will resolve resource constraints with renewable energy, with taking better care of mother planet. With better managing our food cycle, right? To make longevity affordable and accessible for everyone. Longevity is a thing which would unite the nations rather than kind of continue to separate them. But the biggest question why, you know, if you look even like in the US audience which is usually, you know, super interactive, super positive, 80-85% of people don’t like the idea of life extension. The reason being is that this huge number of moral and medical issues that we need to solve before we embrace longevity, before we’ll embrace life extension and before we embrace you know immortality as a concept. And there’s so many ethical things that we need to solve.

I’m a super positive person, that’s why you need to have a lot of balancing kind of negative views or critical views on this whole thing. So – and just number of things, immortality – if this is available to everyone going to be valuable to dictators, right? So think about North Korea. You know? I wonder if we want to have you know, the same dictator in North Korea for another 100 or 200 years. What will happen to the country? To the population? To the earth, right? Or, you know what about social structures, right? You know, I was born at the time, and this is what I’ve seen from my parents and grandparents. And it’s one life, one marriage, one job. This is changing. You know? 67% of marriages, you know, is broken up. Depending on what kind of country you’re looking at in developed world, is going to divorce in 3-5 years from the marriage, right? So what’s – what needs to happen with our social structure?

And final thoughts on that, if – and this is on the positive side. If we’re going to live longer, does it give us the hope that we’re gonna be more responsible for what we’re doing, right? So throwing plastic in the ocean and living longer will you know give us an opportunity or risk to face consequences of our actions. So hopefully, this will drive more responsible behavior for us. But I agree with you, Chris, there’s so many ethical, social and regulatory questions that we need to face on this road. So I’m actually happy we can have this dialog and we can have this argument. It’s not a black and white issue.

Chris Martenson: Great, I’m really glad to hear you say that. And for me, population. Okay? Given how – so in my lifetime, I’m 57 now. Animal population has been halved in terms of biomass. And the oceans, I can tell you as a fisherman, stripped clean, right? And so here’s a simple example of one technology, I’ll call it GPS. Before GPS, fishermen would leave from Massachusetts. They would motor out like 6-8 hours, some dead reckoning and they’d throw their lines over the side, or their nets and they’d run around. After GPS, they could stop and start six inches to the left of where they went and they scraped the oceans clean. And it’s going to take another generation I think, for –

Sergey Young: Yeah.

Chris Martenson: Management to catch up with that simple technology.

Sergey Young: Right.

Chris Martenson: And so, I look at this and let's talk food for a second. You’ve seen the reports, right? UK soil scientists say we have 60 harvests left because the way we’re currently managing soil is strip mining it. It’s a mining operation. Macro and micro nutrients are being pulled out. Living soil is being turned into dirt, if I can make that distinction. And you only can do that so many times and then you basically are out of options unless you’re in a full nutrient replacement cycle. Very complicated even to fix that. So, my questions would be, are humans ready to expand their population given our current track record?

Sergey Young: Yeah. So great question, number one just a bit of context. Whatever the graph and forecast you see, we probably in the current – I can follow business model. In a current living model, economic model in the world we very likely to heed 10 billion kind of figure in terms of population. And then it would start to decline. Because with every country which you go through almost exponential growth of GDP per capita. The reproductive race is just close to one. So, that’s one.

But it does not mean that we [don’t] need to solve the issues that you just highlighted, right? Moreover, right I think in terms of legacy, in terms of being happy and being part of the ecosystem, we need to solve it. So I do believe technology is a little bit like a hammer. You can use it to kill someone or you can use it to build a house, right? And obviously I’m not the only one in the world thinking about this. But where you my role and role of longevity vision fund, right? Which supports you know longevity and ecofriendly technologies is to provide the sources of breakthroughs. But then knowing what we know about humans, I think it should be combination of stick and carrot.

So if you think about like, you know, only about the carrot, which is you know providing different breakthroughs through longevity technologists, or food tech technologist. So we currently investing in the plant based meat and fish and seafood, right? We’re going to announce this investment in the next month or so. I mean, it’s just amazing what clean meat or plant based meats you know can do to follow food cycle. It’s, you know, low calories. It doesn’t have you know dangerous substances like you know hormones or antibiotics. It doesn’t have, you know, all the harmful bacteria. And it doesn’t really require you to have all these poor animals in industrial farms, or to reach this precious resources in the sea or in our rivers, like fish or any other creatures. So, this is what I provide. This is what I see my mission.

But let’s not forget about regulation, right? And this is where globalization was helpful, is to understanding the role of government and role of world organization in terms of protecting Mother Nature. You know, protecting the creatures, and make our relationship with nature as the more equal ones, rather than us taking all the time, this precious resources. So I am concerned as well as you and probably substantial part of our audience today. I do see my role is providing this opportunity, resources for breakthrough technologists to develop and to happen. And therefore make the world a better place.

Chris Martenson: I love the vision. You know, I started by looking at data and tearing apart things, like how much oil is actually left in the ground? And I’m not against using it, but if we’re going to use it, where are we going with it? I’m also a businessman. I spend a lot of time in the business world. So there, I did a lot of strategy development. And strategy development is always the same thing, very complicated ones. BCG’s got a different one, right? But they all boil down to this, where are we going? How are we going to get there? What’s the vision? What are your resources? On the resource side, I see that it’s a finite number and we better use them wisely if we want to get to this, you know, new future we want to get to. I’m a conservationist in the sense that I really don’t want to go backwards. People sometimes misinterpret my message and hear it as Malthusian. Oh my God, you’re saying there’s limits in all of that. And I had to wander over to Psychology and Neurobiology to understand that we have an optimism bias wired in. Nature graciously gave us that.

So, I think how do we begin to balance the optimism bias against the realities? Not the realities just being perceived as negative and dismissed because people have a psychological bias against them. Because they both, I like how you put it, we need both of those fully enframed to really get where we’re going if we’re going to have a good strategy, right?

Sergey Young: Yeah, I agree. Look, I think to call it conservative approach is a little bit unfair. And the reason being, and then what I like you put two questions. And the question one, you know, what are we doing? And the question two is how we execute on that? And the problem with human beings, and specifically now democratic societies that within the execution process our messages, our decisions they’re starting to deviate, right? They’re starting to be influenced, they become insulted. So you know my belief, you need to put pretty direct, and some people can call it conservative message across. And then life will soften it anyway. Regulation will soften it anyway and diversity of opinion soften it. So, you know, I’m big fan of radical stance, because on the way to implementation they become less radical. And then if we have democratic process in place, we will accommodate other people’s views. But you need to be radical.

So, this is the reason behind my 200 years life span message, right? I’m actually – if you look at the current state of technology, it is impossible to live 200 years. But this is my way to get attention. Because if I start to discuss with you and you know our live audience, guys this is how we’re going to live 100 years. And this is five things you need to do, they’re like “Sergey, come on, we’ve heard this before. This is pretty boring.”

So, the unfortunate reality I need to shock you with 200 years and then tell you that it’s actually three different horizons. One of the things that we can do today to live to 100, the other thing was the technologist that we invested in from longevity vision fund will be available to us in 10, 20 years. And this is gonna to be an opportunity to live probably to 150, whatever the number is. To break this sound barrier of 120 years, which is the – limit established by evolution for our bodies and for our minds. And then Herculize is visionary one, what we all can use the kind of robotic or digital avatars, replaceable body parts, etc. So you know frankly speaking we are in this world not only to think, but also to do. And to do something you need to be radical sometimes. And then life will balance your message. Life will balance your idea when we go to execution stage.

Chris Martenson: I love that. My – I have almost a daily practice of challenging myself mentally. I run up against something. So, like some math is at the edge of what I can do, or a new biological concept that I don’t get. Because I find that after I’ve done that and I sleep on it, the next day it’s just a little bit easier. And so it’s just a basic exercise program. So, let me tease apart this quantity versus quality thing. So 200 years is quantity. How – tell us about what you’re looking at now and the technologies we either currently have or soon to come that will enhance the quality of it? Like how can I be healthier and all of that? I think that’s what a lot of people would be interested in.

Sergey Young: Okay. So, first thing that we need to be prepared of is that quality of our lives is – and our life span. So, we actually, we use the term health span, right? Because I’m interested in extending healthy in 50 years rather than the last five – the most fragile years of our lives. So – and in fact, that’s why I call it boring. A lot of people know how to do it right? And then five things is you know, when I have my 30 seconds on longevity. I sent everyone to do their annual health checkup. This is the most important thing, because you know, remember 20 years ago, cancer was kiss of death. Not anymore. For five main type of cancer your recovery rate is 93 to 100% these days. And one huge assumption, you do very early diagnostic of that.

So, make sure every year – so for me it’s January. I’m going to human longevity center in California. You know this May I meant to go to Japan. Japan has amazing healthcare system to do my annual checkup. Or you can go to hospital next door; it’s not rocket science, right? Make sure you catch cancer, you catch heart disease, you catch diabetes early on. So you can work on that; so that’s number one. And then – and this is where technology is helpful is that we work investing a lot in early stage, and early cancer diagnosis. Because cancer and heart disease is two killer monsters. They kill more than 50% of people after they turn 50 years old. So, that’s one.

The other thing is again, is not smoking. Drive responsible. Establish whatever the – your states limit. You know I have zero alcohol tolerance while driving, so I call it passive longevity. Just don’t do a stupid thing. And then food. Food is amazing and I have this – the reason I have number of copies of books here, I’m just spreading this to people, right? To come to see me in my office. You know, the single change that we can take to take back control of our life and the healthy state is to change the food system, right? And then do a lot of plant base and you know decrease the calories.

Sport is another one, and funny enough if you look at technologists, this is Fitbit, right? And some people use Apple Watch, Samsung watch, etc. Just a few years ago it was just counting my steps. And it’s important to do 10,000 steps a day. It’s super important for your heart system health. But right now it’s becoming personalized healthcare device. Apple watch can do electrocardiogram, can detect when you fall down in the street, can call ambulance for you. And then – and it start to – it will in few years’ time get 95% of the tracking information to assess your health, right? So that’s important and peace of mind like mental exercise that you just mentioned. Meditation, act of kindness every day, working with your sleep which is also Fitbit, Apple watch, whatever the gadget you have is also helpful in terms of tracking the sleep cycle. So, that’s your job number one. Monday morning change that you need to do.

So, this gives us another 10-15 years to wait for the outcome of technologists that we’re investing in. And three most promising technologists that I’m very excited and we invest in it. One is gene editing and gene therapy. Just amazing, and then the reason we can have such a quick response to Coronavirus in terms of vaccine development, in terms of you know, developing the test. I think US itself have like 50 approved tests against Coronavirus. And that’s in course of like two months, right? And the reason is that we’ve been able to sequence genome of this virus in the course of one month. Twenty-five years ago it was just impossible at all, right? So that’s – so technology number one is gene editing and gene therapy. Technology number two is anything related to the stem cells, and we investing in this together with other biotech investors. And with, you know, big pharma.

And technology number three is organ regeneration and replaceable organs. Look at liver, as far as article – there’s a huge waiting list of people waiting for this. And it can be anywhere between one and three years in the US, right? And it's $700,000 to $800,000 type of surgery. And we just invested in the company together with Juvaness. It’s another great investment in longevity area, which use our lymph nodes to regrow the liver, right? So they take donor liver, they split it in 50-80 pieces. They use laparoscopic not really invasive operation to put it in your lymph nodes. And then in six months’ time you have supporting liver, you have like liver being inside your body. I mean it’s amazing. Obviously in the testing stage, we need to wait a few years before they will go through FDA approval. And it’s going to be common available operation.

But this is a type of technologist which would help us to support the most fragile parts of our body. Again, there is nothing available today, but this is going to be available in the next 5, 10, 15 years. So what we need to stay in the reach, so come back to my you know horizon one. Take back control of your health and your daily routine.

Chris Martenson: Super glad to hear you talk about food. It’s my number one thing. For the past month I’ve been telling people who have been listening to my Coronavirus channel, plant a garden. I think there’s some disruptions coming because you know we can’t get the migrant workers in the fields, so we might be short on fresh fruits and vegetables. But you’ll be outside, you’ll be getting that natural vitamin D from the sun. But you’ll also be connecting with plants and growing them and eating much better food that’s better for you and all of that. I really think you know this is going to be a little bit – some of what Covid is going to give us – is my great grandparents would be like, oh of course. You want a roof, to eat, you want good friends and you want to know where your food is coming from, of course. So that’s all good.

I’m surprised – can you talk on technology four – you mentioned three. But I’ve kind of been thinking Sergey is AI, right? Fantastic learning programs, because to me when I go to a doctor I feel like I’m running into a decision tree, where they go fever, no fever? Fever, okay febrile. It feels like this is just perfectly primed to take 95% of what doctors do on the front end, leave the art at the edge of it to the skilled practitioner. Isn’t there a role here for AI to take my blood, sift through 1,000 variables and genomic sequences –

Sergey Young: Exactly. And then I think the beauty of AI is not only can a managing complexity, but also to establish very unusual correlation between one and another. Right? So look at Coronavirus there’s Canadian company called Blue Dot, right? And they provide AI based and mission – big data type of intelligence for spikes of kind of unusual health related events around the world. Just looking at social media activity and out of data that they scan. I mean they immediately realize there’s something going in Wuhan. And they made actually the – they sent a warning note to their clients 10 days before World Health Organization did the same for the rest of the world. So, that I think is amazing.

And also I think AI is very complimentary for today’s doctors job. And you know, combination of both you know, give our doctors, give our medical professionals more time to spend with us with the patient, right? So, they need to go and bother themselves and yourself with typical question which is already in your electronic record, which is already measured by different scans, or your personalized scale device. And so, I’m actually, I’m thinking at combination of different technologists and with our healthcare system, with our doctors. Give more time, you know, to our doctors and therefore more self-realization for them, to do their job properly. Run just to stare at any computer to do record, or ask you the same questions again.

So, I’m completely on the same page with you. And I think it’s a huge opportunity. And it’s not either/or. It’s combination of both.

Chris Martenson: Yeah and it seems to me that if we did also AI, so I was working on this think tank. There’s some guys there from Darpa, and they’re running a complexity modeling challenge, right? So, it’s sort of like the XPRIZE. They’re throwing a little bit of money out there and for people who don’t know, I’ll let you explain it. But XPRIZE said, let’s put some money out there, $10 million to see if we can initiate space travel in the private sector, which before the XPRIZE was all NASA. And all of a sudden it unleashed $100 million of private chasing of that. So it was very good leverage, so Darpa said maybe we could do this for AI because humanity, our problems are too complex for us as humans to manage anymore. And my hope, Sergey, some day we will initiate AI and it will parse through everything. Maybe in a quantum computer it will say hey, don’t grow cotton in Arizona. That’s a bad idea. You know?

Sergey Young: I agree. That’s amazing, so that’s why I love XPRIZE foundation and you’re right, the first XPRIZE competition was the creation of first private spaceship. And today we know this as version Galactic, right? It’s the rights for the ship was actually bought by Richard Branson. So my dream, and we starting design process for that next month is to do age reversal competition for technologist which will help us to live longer and healthier and happier life. So I do hope that we can launch it next year. And it’s going to be 2 to 400 teams all around the world providing technologists and measuring the impact of their intervention. Whether its drugs, any particular technologist to measure age reversal impact of that. Just using biological clocks. And biological clocks is just set of indicators, almost like a blood sample you give. You look at different measures and you measure how old or how young are you against your calendar years. So, we’re working on that.

I’m actually sponsoring this for the last year and a half. But there’s so many amazing people involved there from XPRIZE aside from academic community life: Steve Forward, Terry Grossman and over longevity is such a grateful theme and you know it’s really unified. There’s no sense of competition. The only thing that we find is aging and age related disease. So it’s been amazing experience for me and I’m looking forward to launch this competition next year.

Chris Martenson: That sounds fabulous. I would love to see when launch for battery technology. I would love for my government instead of $10 billion to the banks to administer loans in this most recent hand out. Put a billion dollars out, dangle it out there. Anybody who can solve batteries, using a common chemistry with a certain density, just dangle it out there and see what happens.

Sergey Young: I agree.

Chris Martenson: That would mean a lot. So, I love that story of how the XPRIZE really, it’s incentives, right? You show me the incentive, I’ll show you the outcome, right? That’s what Charlie Munger says. Listen, I know we’re up against your time here. I did want to mention your website SergeyYoung.com and you got a book coming out. I see the countdown going, growing young. Tell us about that.

Sergey Young: Yeah, so if you want to stay in contact, just sign up for my newsletter on Sergeyyoung.com; so that’s the easiest way to do. And you know, I’m just very excited to work with 20-25 longevity buying years all around the world to write a book about technologists. And we mostly invest in Horizon II, which is technologies which I mentioned today already. Like gene editing, use of AI for diagnostic or for drug development, artificial organs or replaceable organs. But there’s some exciting stuff that we working on as well when we’re investing a little bit of our money, like you know human avatars. So I’m having the call with a company from Japan and Japan what it’s going to love to robots. It is a perfect place to develop avatars. And actually working on the first prototype of robotic avatars these days. So there’s going to be section on that but overall I think what I wanted to share in my book is the overall excitement about different technologists, which is currently in development stage to provide all of us the motivation to you know, stay in the reach, take control of our health. You know be in the healthy state and happy state in the next 10-15 years. So, then when we reach longevity breakthrough you look at your own body and your mind, and you think, okay this is worth life extension, right? You don’t want to be a body in your mind and in fragile state. So, that’s the whole idea of the book. And obviously, you know, since my mission to change one billion lives, and bring longevity technology in the most affordable and accessible way, now a book will be important part of that. This will come in probably 10 months’ time and but I’m very excited to work on that. There’s so many exciting things happening in this field.

Chris Martenson: All right Sergey, I have to ask since we’re on books and based on our conversation, if I was in your office with you right now, which book would you give me?

Sergey Young: Okay, so this is my favorite one. So, this is Eat to Beat Disease, amazing book and it’s almost like small encyclopedia, which goes from theoretic basics, how food is important or your health to particular food choice, how to use the food to change your body and change your health. So, amazing book. Again you ask me to offer one book. The other one which I love is it's called Happiness Hypothesis. That’s – this is the best book on the review of different theory of happiness. It was breakthrough for me to realize what makes us happy.

Chris Martenson: Fantastic. Well thank you so much for that. I’ll be getting both of those books; so consider – I really appreciate that. So Sergey, thank you so much for your time today.

Sergey Young: My great pleasure.

Chris Martenson: Yes, SergeyYoung.com, check it out and sign up for the newsletter and I’ll be looking forward to your book, Growing Young when it comes out. So I agree, let’s have the balance. We need both types out there optimists and – I don’t use pessimists. I call myself a realist, but –

Sergey Young: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I agree with you. Okay Chris it was great conversation and to all of our audience stay healthy.

Chris Martenson: Fantastic, all right. All right, bye bye.

Sergey Young: Cheers. Bye bye.

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67 Comments

  • Wed, May 13, 2020 - 12:51pm

    #1
    centroid

    centroid

    Status: Member

    Joined: Nov 16 2014

    Posts: 84

    4

    centroid said:

    i cant help thinking that we have not got a chance unless we go back to hard money. the world needs to operate efficiently and a hard money system will aid this with an allocation of resources more efficiently and  with smaller governments and smaller populations

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  • Wed, May 13, 2020 - 2:20pm

    brushhog

    brushhog

    Status: Member

    Joined: Oct 06 2015

    Posts: 107

    5

    Straw man. Calling you out Adam

    The way you frame the question is a fallacy on its face. "Are the pessimists wrong to bet against human ingenuity?"
    Who's a pessimist? Just because I dont think technology will "save us", doesnt make me a "pessimist". Thats a very sly propaganda tactic that is often used in the mainstream media. You frame the question is such a way that puts people either in your camp or labels them as "pessimists".

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  • Wed, May 13, 2020 - 2:38pm

    #3
    vshelford

    vshelford

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 13 2014

    Posts: 166

    9

    length of what kind of life?

    Great conversation!  But I've noticed that people who talk about the vision of extended life-spans are usually those with interesting work that excites them.  I wonder how many people with no work or just hard drudge work needed to keep themselves and their dependents going, are longing to live longer?  My circumstances place me among the most fortunate of mortals, but at 72, the thought of another 100 years is quite appalling.  And that's without considering the effects of my/our addition to a constantly growing population.  I'm not arguing for or against here, just coming up against what I perceive to be realities vs the vision.  But as Sergey said, if you want to do something, sometimes you have to be radical, and then things balance out later.  All very interesting.

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  • Wed, May 13, 2020 - 4:20pm

    Adam Taggart

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: May 25 2009

    Posts: 6469

    9

    Pessimists

    brushhog -

    I chose to use that word because of how often it has been slung at me, Chris and the PP community over the past decade+ of delivering our message. I was wryly 'embracing' it to show it holds no power over us.

    Man, being accused as a mainstream media propagandist? That for certain is a new one for me...

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  • Wed, May 13, 2020 - 4:53pm

    #5
    David McKenney

    David McKenney

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 25 2020

    Posts: 95

    0

    94 % of deaths had comorbidity issues

    https://www.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/92-percent-of-COVID-19-victims-in-CC-had-comorbidities1-696x588.png?itok=1dWGupYp

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  • Wed, May 13, 2020 - 5:28pm

    #6
    Roadlesstaken

    Roadlesstaken

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 27 2011

    Posts: 5

    5

    International Travel

    I can envision a future where local outbreaks will be somewhat contained with proper testing and contact tracing.  What I can't get my head around is a future where people can freely move from city to city asymptomatically and we somehow even loosely contain anything.  I also do not foresee a future of economic prosperity if travel is limited.

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  • Wed, May 13, 2020 - 6:15pm

    #7

    Snydeman

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2013

    Posts: 616

    12

    Pessemist/tin-foil hat/crazy

    I'm still at this point on my facebook page, fighting a skirmish that should have been over long ago. I'm the resident crazy. I'm the resident pessimist:

    "So how deadly is Covid-19?

    While there is some discussion underway about exactly how deadly, I've seen no actual dispute among the community of epidemiologists and doctors/nurses on the front lines that it is "way worse than the flu."

    Let's dissect. First off, the difference between "case fatality rates" and "mortality rates" are important to remember; the former measures how many of those who get a particular illness will die from it, whereas the latter measures how much of any given population, regardless of whether they ever catch the illness, die of it. The difference is important to note because those advocating for rapid re-opening do so by quoting the low mortality rate, whereas the doctors in the field are warning to not re-open - or to re-open gradually and with much social distancing and facemasking - often cite the case fatality rate.

    For the most part, there's little point in measuring the mortality rate right now for a few reasons:

    1) Not everyone will ever get any one particular illness
    2) I don't care what my chances of dying of a virus/illness are in general, I want to know what my chances are IF I catch it.
    3) Measuring mortality rates are only valid AFTER a particular illness has run its course through a population, because the denominator (the population of a nation) is constant while the numerator RISES with every new death. Once this thing has passed and we've reached herd immunity, THEN we can look at overall mortality, because right now the mortality rate will only go up. Right now, with deaths as measured by the sources I use, the mortality rate is 84,189/328,000,000, which would yield a mortality of roughly .000026%. Nothing to be worried about!

    The case-fatality rate, on the other hand, is both a better and yet more slippery measure to use. It is better because it measures the number of people who have died by the number of people who have caught the illness, but it is slippery because on the numerator side we aren't always measuring or labeling Covid deaths accurately (some states are intentionally mislabeling people who die of Covid as something else), whereas the denominator might be off because there are likely a fair amount of people out there who have it but haven't been tested and don't know. Much like the mortality rate, the Case Fatality Rate will be much easier to know for certain once this is all said and done.

    Adding to that uncertainty, I've seen some experts point out that the problem with measuring deaths today against the number of cases today is that it takes up to four+ weeks from onset of infection to resolve, either in death or recovery. So, to accurately measure you'd have to look at the number of deaths today against the numbers of confirmed cases weeks ago.

    Either way, based on a number of different studies and based on quite a few sites (like Johns Hopkins) which are tracking the CFR, it's definitely an order of magnitude worse than flu, but how much worse still needs to be triangulated much later on in the progress of this outbreak. Johns Hopkins asserts the CFR is around 6% overall, though of course that number fluctuates widely by age group, ethnicity, and other factors.

    But there IS a way to track how bad this outbreak is in real-time. How about looking at the average number of deaths within a nation - an average that takes into account good years and bad - against the number of deaths occurring during the Covid-19 outbreak? Granted, not all of the people dying right now are dying of the virus, but it's safe to say with so many people staying at home, every day causes of death like automobile accidents have probably dropped significantly, too, so it all balances out somewhat. Either way, a death rate significantly higher than the average would tell us something. Well, check it out:

    https://www.economist.com/…/tracking-covid-19-excess-deaths…

    Yeah. So anyone peddling the snake oil that this is no worse than the flu needs to go back to the data and the science.

    I mean, I GET why one would not want to *believe* a virus/nature could get the better of us, or that we humans aren't far superior and able to solve every problem, or that bad things never happen to modern society. I get it! But if a person is willing to completely ignore the science and the facts in order to create a mental "safe space" where they can go to comfort themselves, well then the problem isn't with the science, the data, nor the facts.

    Stay home. If you must go out, be respectful and cover your mouth with a mask, just in case you are asymptomatic and spreading the virus unknowingly. Really, it's not that much to ask from the grandchildren of people who had to give it all to defeat the Nazis and Imperial Japan."

     

    Yet every prediction we have elucidated since January has come true. Those of us giving out early warning signals have been vindicated.

     

    The problem? We don't write the history books, and we don't determine the dominant narrative. Thus, we are confined to back rooms, covered in tin-foil we ourselves didn't fashion, and lambasted as oddballs and conspirators.

     

    But my garden is expanded, and my awareness is as well. They await a "return to normal" while I await the arrival of the new. A worthy trade-off.

     

    PPers, stay the course. We knew it would come to these days, and we have been quietly putting things into place beforehand.

     

    Chris, we wish we could have joined you up there. There just wasn't time enough to put those pawns on the chessboard.

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  • Wed, May 13, 2020 - 7:00pm

    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jun 04 2012

    Posts: 502

    10

    Concur Snydeman

    In the circles I walk in, which include MBAs, CPAs, executives, and a wide assortment of other highly intelligent people, I feel the underlying message when I try to broach ANY of the things we discuss on PP is 'thanks but leave your tinfoil hat at the door'. It is disheartening for sure. But I know that their point of views come from a non-data driven, emotional standpoint facilitated by a manipulative MSM and lying managers. As one of them said, "I have kids, I have to believe this will pass. There is an oil glut for god's sake and demand keeps going up so no worries, and besides, the future is a lot brighter as technology will save us".

    I am left speechless at times by the head in the sand ignorance of even those who I have (may become had) high regard for. Denial rules. We are and will continue to pay heavily for that. It is challenging I find to maintain some relationships because of this.

    Jan

     

     

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  • Wed, May 13, 2020 - 7:09pm

    karenchantal

    karenchantal

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2020

    Posts: 93

    1

    karenchantal said:

    I work with every day people and I hear alot of 5G stuff.  Bill Gates is out to poison us.  That stuff.

    I just nod my head.

    The people who believe the conspiracy stuff, were the same people a few months ago who thought this was no big deal.  "It is just the flu."

    So in February, this is the flu.  Now May, you suddenly have inside information that this is 5G and you know peeps in the Illuminati?

    I think the Chinese were playing around in the lab, some got out and it got mismanaged by China.  Something simple.  NOT Illuminati.

    But if you DO know any Illuminati, send me an invite, ROFL.

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  • Wed, May 13, 2020 - 7:11pm

    #10

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1057

    1

    About that science

    Yeah. So anyone peddling the snake oil that this is no worse than the flu needs to go back to the data and the science.

     

    Just talked to a gal whose father died in March.  He was elderly, had co-morbidities and passed away.  It seems now that some of his symptoms were the same kind of symptoms that a Covid-19 infected person could have.  So they decided to change his cause of death to “The Virus”.  Hmmm wonder how much $$$ the hospital received for each virus death?  Science indeed.

    Not that I don’t agree.  But money buys “The Science is Settled”!  It must have been that garden hose I drank out of that caused my rebellious nature.  And the fizzies, tether ball and other dangerous activities. You know merry-go-rounds, and reading  banned books like Catcher In The Rye an The Great Gatsby😱

    AKGrannyWGrit

     

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  • Wed, May 13, 2020 - 7:22pm

    #11
    skipr

    skipr

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jan 09 2016

    Posts: 203

    3

    rewording

    How about rewording "Are the pessimists wrong to bet against human ingenuity?" to "Are the (UFOs will save us) optimists right to bet for human ingenuity?"  In the first, "pessimists",  "wrong", and "against" are grouped together and therefore closely associated.  It's the same as grouping the optimists with UFOs.

    I'm not betting either way until I see a working prototype that has been independently verified and can be manufactured to gigantic dimensions in a couple of years.  One such "technology" that has been proposed are mechanical bees that will replace the ones we are killing off.  I wonder if that idea came from Monsanto.  They would make money producing the mechanical bees to replace the DNA based ones their products are killing off.  It's a win win for them,

    Ingenuity (aka technology) that maintains the status quo requires a massive amount of energy and resources.  Will it create them out of thin air?  The bankers are experts at doing the latter with money.  Are they innovative geniuses?  I put the optimists at the same level as the bankers, and I'm a retired engineer.  I have worked on a lot of high tech projects.  They were all extremely fragile.

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  • Wed, May 13, 2020 - 8:29pm

    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jun 04 2012

    Posts: 502

    7

    Um, no

    When you say 'you' I am assuming you are making a generalized observation and not referring to me specifically. If that is not the case, and it would appear so since your comment is in reply to mine, then your response is perplexing. I made no reference whatsoever to 5G or the Illuminati; Bill Gates, in other comments I have made, absolutely - the golden boy is no longer golden. There is a lot of rather credible information supporting that idea.

    You have previously expressed in a comment that you are fatigued by all the Covid news. Many are, as am I at times. But that will not prevent me from keeping on at trying to find facts and data to understand what it is all about, why this has happened, whether or not it was intentional, and what can possibly be done to hold people accountable (the latter being laughable, I know....).

    Exploring data and chasing down investigative journalism and other truth seeking people are important things to consider since the information gleaned goes to informing important life decisions. We are seeing evidence presented by Chris with the feel good stories of how advance information has definitely helped people to ready themselves for the havoc this virus is wreaking. It has helped people to formulate a Plan B or C as deemed necessary for their circumstances, which is far preferable to flying by the seat of one's pants.

    You are relatively new here. Many, many smart, thoughtful people have taken time and energy over a lot of years to contribute to the vast library of information that can be found at PP in the archives and current threads all with the end goal of helping foster understanding, educating and create awareness for others who are less informed - especially those who are new to the idea that the world does not work nearly the way most people think it does....

    The FBI/CIA coined the term 'conspiracy theorist' to discredit anyone who questions what they were/are doing as a nut bar. Your comment strikes me as coming from someone who drank that particular Kool-aid. It would be nice to see less conjecture and more facts to support your thinking. Thank you!

    Jan

     

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  • Wed, May 13, 2020 - 11:46pm

    #13

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1057

    24

    Fingernails On A Chalk Board

    A self-described technology optimist, Sergey has created a $100 million fund to counteract the damaging consequences of aging. He’s set for himself the goal to live to be 200 years old (in the body of a 25 year old) and to find an affordable way for everyone else to do the same.

    I am sure Sergey is a nice guy, well educated and well intentioned and has a unique interest.

    A few years ago my husband and I would both get physicals and felt free to see our long-time Family doctor whenever we needed to.  Today our deductible is in the stratospheric nose bleed realm.  The cost for less and less health care costs more and more and more - it has become stifling. We no longer go to the doctor.  And we are not alone.

    This podcast was like fingernails on a chalk board.  It was difficult to get through.  I had to ask myself why it was so disturbing.  I feel it’s hypocritical.   RIGHT NOW more people than ever have no healthcare, no jobs, are highly stressed and are being oppressed by the Jack Booted thugs of the corporate and political elite.  It's the greatest transfer of wealth in history, right now.  We are losing our Constitutional rights, freedoms and self respect.  This is a life changing period in history.  And discussing how we could live to 200 is ludicrous.  Only the rich and powerful would have access to that science.  And AI, don’t kid yourself it will be used on you, to control you and to manipulate you.  NOT to benefit you.

    Remember The North American Free Trade Agreement, we were told it will create 1,000’s of jobs for Americans.  Naive people believed that too.  Weapons of mass destruction?  Or how about this - - we care about you. No - they don’t!

    People are hurting.  How about feeding the hungry, easing suffering, relieving pain and misery.

     

    The world does NOT need Global dictators, war mongers, Serial killers, psychopaths, and Corporations who pollute, employ child slave labor in abhorrent conditions.  And these pathetic folks could live 200 years instead of 80?  God gave us a gift that misery only lasts one lifetime.  It would be an act of evil to unleash a 200 year lifespan on an apathetic, indifferent and profit centric world. Just how much misery can a people, country or generation take?  And we are asked to believe that technological advancements would be offered to all?  Gullible, naive or cynical, which are you?

    It is sad we give little voice to the very real people who are being negatively impacted- due to current world events....right now!

    A self-described technology optimist, Sergey has created a $100 million fund to counteract the damaging consequences of aging.

    A world worth inheriting?  Only after we have eased pain, misery and suffering should we spend time, energy, effort and money on extending our lifespan.  100 million could have eased a lot of pain and suffering!

    Maybe at a different time this would have been interesting instead of insulting. There is too much pain in our country.  And just for the record, it’s not mine.

    No kudos here!

    AKGrannyWGrit

     

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  • Thu, May 14, 2020 - 4:15am

    brushhog

    brushhog

    Status: Member

    Joined: Oct 06 2015

    Posts: 107

    2

    Oh I see

    ....think I should have read the whole article before commenting?

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  • Thu, May 14, 2020 - 6:20am

    #15
    Ision

    Ision

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 07 2020

    Posts: 125

    7

    Ision said:

    Eternal Life is only a ticket to Eternal Torment and something only fools desire.

    Where were you 500 years ago?  Answer:  Exactly the same place you shall be 500 years from now.

    Embrace Life and learn to smile at Oblivion.

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  • Thu, May 14, 2020 - 6:58am

    VTGothic

    VTGothic

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jan 05 2020

    Posts: 335

    6

    "94% of deaths had comorbidity issues"

    Sure, but (this is from a report now about a decade old, it hasn't gotten better):

    "We have found that 60 percent—well over half—of Americans are not regularly active. Worse yet, 25 percent of Americans are not active at all. For young people—the future of our country—physical activity declines dramatically during adolescence." Physical Activity and Health: A Report of the Surgeon General: Executive Summary, p. 3 (https://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/sgr/pdf/execsumm.pdf).

    According to a November 2015 article in The Journal of the American Medical Association, overall prescription drug use rose from 51% of the U.S. population in 1999 to 59% in 2012. The largest increase was in the use of statins to lower cholesterol – up 4 times, from 2% in 1999 to 8% in 2012. Next in growth were antidepressants, which doubled from 7% to 13%. The rates of multiple prescription drug use has increased across all age groups, and the overall number of Americans taking 5 or more medications daily rose from 8% to 15% over the 12-year period 1999-2012.

    I pulled those stats for a project I was working on mid-decade. I have not updated, but the situation has not reversed direction. My point: at least in these United States, co-morbidity is not either rare or limited to the elderly. Rather, it is becoming frighteningly more common for younger adults and children.

    Small comfort is to be found in the correlation between comorbidity and coronavirus.

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  • Thu, May 14, 2020 - 7:37am

    LesPhelps

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2009

    Posts: 652

    8

    Drudgery

    I wonder how many people with no work or just hard drudge work needed to keep themselves and their dependents going, are longing to live longer?

     

    Life goes on, long after the thrill of living is gone.
    - John Mellencamp

    People's attitudes about ways to pass time need a serious overhaul.  I have friends who spend large portions of their "retirement" spare time and not an insignificant amount of cash, catch-and-release fishing for Muskies.  These same friends don't understand why I spend a portion of my "retirement" making a nominal wage rate helping with the harvest.

    As a society, we need to reassess our priorities and what we see as entertainment and what we see as drudgery.  A lot of what we have been taught is not working so well.

     

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  • Thu, May 14, 2020 - 7:39am

    #18
    DaveDD

    DaveDD

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Sep 08 2019

    Posts: 179

    11

    Technology will change the stage, not the play

    Interesting discussion. Although it pains me as an engineer and scientist, I vote “no”, technology will not save us, only humanity can save us.

    Technology specifically, and ingenuity in general are amoral. A hamer can be a tool to create, but in the wrong hands or under the wrong circumstances, it can be a tool that destroys.

    The word “saving” has an ethical connotation; I’m inclined to ask “saving from what?”, and “who is us?”. Will technology “save” the wealthy from illness and death? If so what other ingenious methods and tools will be needed to maintain their status quo? Think of the CCP in China, that, with the help of western techcompanies  created very innovative ways to control their populace. Did technology save them? Or, think about the great innovation of electrical cars, did that technology save the child laborers in Congo, digging up dirt with their hands so we can drive our green electrical cars?

    Who decides for what purposes technology will be used, who is to benefit and who not? Which hands will wield the technology, and with what purpose? The “hands” that use the current crisis to enrich themselves and leave the less-connected to fend for themselves? The hands belonging to those who believe that  their mortal coils, their believes, their sexuality, their color of skin, their reputation, are the only ones worth saving?  The ones who cannot shed their evolutionary instinct to go with the flow and follow any leader?

    So no, technology can not save us. It will change the stage, not the story.

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  • Thu, May 14, 2020 - 8:10am

    #19
    pat the rat

    pat the rat

    Status: Member

    Joined: Nov 01 2011

    Posts: 149

    6

    to little to fail

    If millions of us little guys fail, the big guys fail too. The corona virus has started a new world order survive together,the old days of to big to fail are gone.Something we learned from the great depression,then we forgot it.I am to little to fail!

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  • Thu, May 14, 2020 - 8:10am

    LesPhelps

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2009

    Posts: 652

    5

    Comorbidity Issues

    Nutritional science over the last several decades clearly links nutrition to all of our leading comorbidity issues.

    That is one of the reasons I’m not concerned about immortality related issues any time soon.

    Pass the butter, please.

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  • Thu, May 14, 2020 - 8:20am

    #21
    Penguin Will

    Penguin Will

    Status: Member

    Joined: Aug 20 2019

    Posts: 69

    8

    Penguin Will said:

    AKGrannyWGrit: "And these pathetic folks could live 200 years instead of 80? ..."

    "By what right," whispers the Voice, "does this savage, merciless, persecuting animal, to which the sufferings and writhings of others of its wretched kind furnish the most pleasurable of sensations, and the mass of which care only to eat, sleep, be clothed, and wallow in sensual pleasures, and the best of which wrangle, hate, envy, and, with few exceptions, regard their own interests alone, with what right does it endeavor to delude itself into the conviction that it is not an animal... but somewhat nobler, a spirit destined to be immortal, a spark of the Essential Light, Fire and Reason, which are God?

    "What other immortality than one of selfishness could this creature enjoy? Of what other is it capable? Must not immortality commence now and is not life part of it? How shall death change the base nature of the base soul?"  - Morals and Dogma by Albert Pike

    Granny I haven't thought of that quote in years but your comment brought it rushing into my head. I'm with you and Mr. Pike, the challenge is to live a life of meaning and purpose in the years given to us, not worry about living forever. Especially when the way we are living now needs so much attention.

    Will

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  • Thu, May 14, 2020 - 8:43am

    #22

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

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    2

    Bingo!

    Granny I haven't thought of that quote in years but your comment brought it rushing into my head. I'm with you and Mr. Pike, the challenge is to live a life of meaning and purpose in the years given to us, not worry about living forever. Especially when the way we are living now needs so much attention.

    Thank you Will.  Prophetic!

     

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  • Thu, May 14, 2020 - 8:44am

    urban planner

    urban planner

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    6

    Sometimes we go backwards

    Rather than mechanical bees - we’re already going backwards. Lots and lots of web content on by hand pollination with a paint brush. Sometimes the ‘alternative energy source’ is you.

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  • Thu, May 14, 2020 - 8:58am

    Mark_BC

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2010

    Posts: 437

    6

    Mark_BC said:

    I think the Chinese were playing around in the lab, some got out and it got mismanaged by China.  Something simple.  NOT Illuminati.

    Except, there were / are lots of western organisations / scientists involved in this whole virus tinkering game they've been playing over the last few decades so that destroys the argument that this escapee virus was just something China was messing around with.

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  • Thu, May 14, 2020 - 9:12am

    urban planner

    urban planner

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    Co-morbidities have many causes

    I agree with your point entirely. One thing I’d point out is that comorbidities have many causes. Americans are sicker, fatter, more malnourished and dying earlier. Part of this is cheap, engineered food with untested (but kinda obvious) long term side effects. Some is sick management that replaced health care. Some is poverty. Some surely can be attributed to the exponential rise in chemicals in our environment. And some definitely is our sedentary lifestyle. To dismiss Covid as a problem of the aged and to those with comorbidities is amazingly ignorant. Comorbidities are utterly rampant in our society.

    I am physically active, eat and garden organic and take very good care of myself. I’m also living with three related but separate autoimmune disorders (and qualify for disability based on the neurological condition) - none well understood but all with suspected genetic or epigenetic origins. None of these were common even 20 years ago but they increasingly are now. I’m a frequent flyer in a massively sick healthcare system. I don’t think I’ve had covid but it’s affecting my life both in the obvious ways and because the clinics all closed to make room for covid folks that haven’t come which means the medical treatment that makes my life worth living has been postponed. Covid has my attention, even as I am firmly in the end the lockdown camp because the economic damage will be a far worse public health crisis that may take decades to resolve. I’m wearing a mask, washing my hands and desperate to get working to shore up our resources while we still can. And to pay for the 32 quarterly shots of Botox that mean I can see without hallucinating (mostly), walk without failing, comprehend and speak English and all the normal stuff of daily life.

    ps I REALLY don’t want to live to 200.

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  • Thu, May 14, 2020 - 9:26am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Joined: May 17 2017

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    4

    Jan: relationships

    Excellent point about relationships being hard to maintain in all of this.

    I had a best friend I had known since I was 13(long long ago in a galaxy far far away) .

    We were speaking about politics one time maybe 10-15 years ago. He is a far right wing republican. I am an anarchist. The discussion got pretty intense. He ended it by saying "Look man I am IN the system"  The relationship did not end but it certainly cooled from then on.

    That to me is exactly the issue. It is the investment people have made. That investment includes every aspect of life, career, politics, family, religion, sexual orientation etc. It all has to do with narrow identification. I read the following quote years ago and it has stuck with me ever since.

    "Whether men soar to outer space or dive to the bottom of the deepest ocean they will find themselves as they are unchanged, because they will not have forgotten themselves or remembered to exercise the charity of forgiveness"

    So living 200 years I guess is kinda cool, but then what?

    "Like anybody, I would like to live a long lifelongevity has its place. But I'm not concerned about that now. I just want to do God's will…. And so I'm happy tonight; I'm not worried about anything; I'm not fearing any man." Martin Luther King

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  • Thu, May 14, 2020 - 9:28am

    #27
    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

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    9

    More things that make me go hmmm... The Clintons enter stage left

    More shady dealings? Looking likely...

    While technology may be potentially harnessed to enable extended life, I have no desire to live any extra innings especially under the kind of life TPTB are trying impose on us! (And they are succeeding because too many sheeple have and continue to unquestioningly, naively, ignorantly accept the poisoned mainstream narratives pushed out each day.)

    Thank goodness for PP and the many great contributors who bring so much talent, experience and thoughtful commentary to discussions. I find there is otherwise a dearth of opportunities for intelligent, rational, fact based conversation on what is shaping up to be (thus far) the most life-altering event of our generation. I say thus far because the prospect of war is still very much alive and well...

    Jan

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  • Thu, May 14, 2020 - 9:45am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Urban Planner

    I certainly feel for your plight. I agree with everything you say except Ameikaans are not dying earlier. The trajectory for decades has been lifespan increase. There are a few years here and there where it declines but overall it is increasing. https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/life-expectancy

    I too am a frequent flyer. I am not planning any flights for quite awhile. I have been growing organically for 65 years and agree totally on the negative effects of the SAD diet.

    IMHO the lockdowns have been necessary because people are too stupid and self centered to take the measures that would protect not only themselves but others. There is an almost complete disregard for our fellow humans.

    I do wish you well and hope you can get the care you need soon.

    All the best.

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  • Thu, May 14, 2020 - 10:06am

    urban planner

    urban planner

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    Thank you

    I guess I should have clarified that thought (which is increasingly difficult to do given my 4/27 treatment was postponed until next week - I hope). Poor Americans have lower life expectancy, a class of folks that just gained 30+ million new members or more given that was just the wage earner component of households.

    https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/1/9/16860994/life-expectancy-us-income-inequality

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  • Thu, May 14, 2020 - 10:22am

    #30
    Angi

    Angi

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    6

    Contact Tracing Update

    The info that leapt off the page for me is this: He said that testing data will only be accessible to health professionals and those contacted about a potential exposure will not be given the identity of the person who tested positive. Think about that - so you get a phone call and you are told you have been exposed and must quarantine with no corroborating details, or any proof or substantiation whatsoever. Do we trust the authorities?

    https://tdn.com/news/state-and-regional/oregon/1-371-contact-tracers-ready-assist-health-departments/article_62b2b8b1-6de6-59ef-92d6-5636a3d9e694.html

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  • Thu, May 14, 2020 - 11:34am

    vshelford

    vshelford

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    Re Drudgery

    Les - I agree.  I remember, when a teenager, having a conversation with a sweet older retired guy who was regaling me with all the things he did to "fill up his time" - golf, bridge, etc (he was well off, obviously).  He was so pleased with himself that he didn't let himself get bored.  I remember thinking at the time that I hoped with all my heart that my life would never get that empty.  It never has, which is why I consider myself so fortunate to live in a community where I can continue to work, and indeed be overworked, with volunteer projects and neighbourliness and gardens.

    But for the record, when I talked of drudgery, I meant the kind of jobs that flourish where wealth inequality has run amok, and large swaths of the population have few choices but to do hard physical labour long past when their bodies can take it, cleaning up after the super-entitled who despise them, homeless "camper force" people counting themselves lucky if they can make it through another day, week, month of gig work for Amazon or whoever else will throw them a crust.

    If I, with so much to enjoy and love every day, and so many ways to give back, can see that an eventual end is natural and good - I wonder just what and who the techno-wizards are envisioning.

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  • Thu, May 14, 2020 - 12:44pm

    Belmontl

    Belmontl

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    Posts: 43

    1

    Reincarnation: Science of The Mind -- Next Great Frontier

    Like the world Shattering Revolutions --created by

    Galileo has been called the "father of observational astronomy", the "father of modern physics", the "father of the scientific method", and the "father of modern science",

    Charles Robert Darwin, geologist and biologist, best known for his contributions to the science of evolution. His proposition that all species of life have descended over time from common ancestors is now widely accepted, and considered a foundational concept in science

    Albert Einstein theoretical physicist who developed the theory of relativity, one of the two pillars of modern physics. His work is also known for its influence on the philosophy of science

    Max Planck made many contributions to theoretical physics, but his fame rests primarily on his role as originator of the quantum theory. This theory revolutionized our understanding of atomic and subatomic processes, just as Albert Einstein's theory of relativity revolutionized our understanding of space and time.(who is also famous for quipping -- "Progress is Funeral by Funeral" -- meaning when a generation dies off... their ideas..die off with them.

    Each of these Revolutionary Men upended previously entrenched ideas about Reality --- collectively shifting Our World Views.

    Reincarnation -- underlines most major religions (predominately Hindu & Buddhist -- for thousands of years), including Early Christian Dessert Fathers, Plato, Pythagoras got the ability to remember past lives from Hermes. ... He recalled his earlier lives and said he first had been Euphorus, secondly Aethalides, thirdly Hermotimus, fourth Pyrrhus and now he was Pythagoras. 

    Perhaps most well known today is 14th Dalai Lama....

    Another Revolution is underway --- Contemplative Observatories in Italy & Colorado -- where people will commit to 3 years, 10 years , rest of their lives -- under rigorously controlled conditions -- monitored by various western sciences AND Tibetian/Buddhists masters --- This may be the GREATEST Revolution of ALL -- for whether the Earth is the center of universe, or we descended from apes , or Space-Time-Matter isn't want it seems to be ... as little or no direct effect on our individual lives -- This will.

    Ian Stevenson -- University of Virginia -- studied Reincarnation for 50 years and merticously documented 100's of compelling cases....

    https://www.near-death.com/reincarnation/research/ian-stevenson.html

    https://www.lamayeshe.com/article/chapter/chapter-6-transference-consciousness

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reincarnation

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  • Thu, May 14, 2020 - 12:59pm

    Belmontl

    Belmontl

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    Posts: 43

    1

    Reincarnation: Center for Contemplative Research --B. Allan Wallace

    B. Allan Wallace is a global unique GEM -- integrating East (50 year Tibetian Buddhist practitioner, writer/translator 40 books, Master Teacher, student/translator of Dali Lama) AND West (advanced degrees/PHD in Physics, Comparative Religions, Mind & Life Institute, etc)

    As CSN&Y sang -- "We have all been here before" ....and other realms

    A deep state of meditative concentration

    The initial emphasis of the contemplative training at the Center will be on the achievement of shamatha, a deep state of meditative concentration in which the meditator’s psyche dissolves into a primal continuum known as the substrate consciousness. The specific methods used to reach this state will include mindfulness of breathing, observing the mind, and resting in awareness of awareness itself. Although each of these methods is drawn from Tibetan Buddhism, they are accessible to anyone, regardless of their belief systems. Nine stages of attentional development leading to the achievement of shamatha have been precisely described, based on centuries of experience by Indian and Tibetan contemplatives. As meditators in our Center progress along these stages, shifts in their neurophysiology will be monitored with EEG (electroencephalogram) and fMRI, magnetic resonance imaging used to demonstrate correlations between physical changes (as in blood flow) in the brain and mental functioning (as in performing cognitive tasks).

    Access to a subtle continuum of consciousness

    Throughout history, contemplatives from multiple traditions claim to have accessed a subtle continuum of consciousness from which the human mind emerges during the gestation of a human fetus. This same continuum of individual consciousness is said to continue after brain death. According to these contemplatives’ first-person experience, it is the primal flow of awareness, and not the brain, that is the actual repository of memories in this life as well as in previous lifetimes. From a scientific perspective, this is an exceptional claim, to say the least, and to be taken seriously, it must be backed up with exceptional evidence. This will be one of many hypotheses that will be put to the test of experience in our Center. Contemplatives from the past have also claimed that by experientially accessing this subtle dimension of consciousness, one experiences a deep sense of bliss, luminosity, and serene nonconceptuality. This, they report, is the true source of genuine well-being. This hypothesis, too, will be explored, with potentially deep ramifications for our understanding of human nature and reality at large.These meditations entail sophisticated means of exploring the role of the mind in nature. Such contemplative research interfaces strongly with some of the deepest insights in modern theoretical physics, specifically quantum cosmology. Advocated by such luminaries as Stephen Hawking, John Wheeler, Andrei Linde, Christopher Fuchs, and Anton Zeilinger, quantum cosmology highlights the participatory role of the mind in the emergence of multiverses, each one arising relative to the observer. While contemporary physics presents this theory on a conceptual level, contemplatives may explore it experientially. In doing so, fresh light may be shed on the unsolved “measurement problem,” that is, how the act of measurement influences the nature of phenomena that are measured. In these ways, research at the Center may provide major breakthroughs for some of the greatest mysteries of modern science: the nature of consciousness and the mind/body problem in the mind sciences, and the measurement problem in quantum physics.

    https://www.centerforcontemplativeresearch.org/mission/

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  • Thu, May 14, 2020 - 1:29pm

    Belmontl

    Belmontl

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    Joined: Aug 23 2009

    Posts: 43

    4

    Consciousness/Worldview Development -- Stages -- Evolutionary Blindspot

    Development(in broadest sense -- unfolds across a variety of Lines of Development -- Cognitive, moral, psycho-sexual, Values, Interpersonal, kinetic, etc -- 15-20 at least) is a Blind Spot for many. As it regards Consciousness/World views -- there is a philosophical term called "The Myth of the Given" -- as IF there were one world/Kosmos "laying out there" for all equally to "See" , when in Reality there is a Spectrum of Evolving Consciousness (Individual/Collective) that enacts or brings forth a different reality.

    Robert Kegan, Harvard's leading Developmental Psychologist wrote a seminal book "Over Their Heads" -- detailing 5 or 6 Levels/Waves (really not even fixed, but more like probability waves -- where 50% is your dominate Level, 25% below, 25% above)  -- OVer Their Heads -- refers to What is Developmentally Over Your/Their Heads -- while a valid level in the spectrum/Kosmos  for many DOESN'T EXIST for those at a lower level (easier to see with children -- pre-rational -- what Magic or Mythic beliefs/worldviews they hold, Not so easy with Adults -- who just because we speak same language & have same culture-- doesn't mean they "see" Eye to Eye!!)

    For example Current "Culture Wars" are basically between 3 Main Levels:

    1. Mythic/Fundamentalist (My Country/God/Etc -- "right or wrong" people willing to die or kill for their worldview).-- Vast Majority vote Conservative --About 30% of USA

    2. Modern/Rational  (Scientific, Rational, Achievers ) -- "its about the economy/Facts/Data" -- about 40% of USA -- these are Independents/Swing Voters

    3. Post-Modern/Pluralist (Larger circle of care/concern -- but like All levels Pathologies at each-- thus PC culture, etc --alienating Moderns, etc ) --about 30% of USA (and there are levels/waves -- above and below these 3... think of Development like Russian Dolls -- The Higher contains -- Transcends & Includes the lower (while Jettisoning also). -- Vast Majority Liberals

    And ALL Levels(until the Next Emerging Level -- Integral -- comes on line -- as "sees" the Entire Spiral) have ONE thing in Common --

    I'm F$cking Right ... everyone else is Wrong!!! (Its about God/Country..... No, Its About thew Economy stupid , No Way... Its about Earth/Ecology"

    There are a few on PP who are familiar with this particular Theory -- Spiral Dynamics -- but it is much richer and comprehensive. Read this short PDF and see how it sits/lands with you .... happy to sent more info .. just PM me. http://www.humanemergence.org/images/Spiral%20Dynamics%20model.pdf

    Here is a deeper Dive -- -Integral Theory -- a Theory of Everything

    https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/9f3e/d29d50b73972152ca396ef7c117eca8d5707.pdf

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  • Thu, May 14, 2020 - 1:30pm

    #35
    Eagle18

    Eagle18

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    Joined: Nov 03 2012

    Posts: 5

    15

    Sergey Young Interview

    Thanks, Chris - interesting take from Sergey Young. I am all for innovation, but ironically his approach strikes me as risky to the future of life on this planet, and indeed to human longevity. Most of these funds, which I interacted with in a past life in Si Valley, are way too big for their britches, and often end up achieving little if anything. If we could take simple steps to reduce our environmental toxins, reduce manmade EMFs and address income inequality, by getting back to true capitalism and supporting Main Street, this would add decades to people’s lives and life to our years. We don’t need these money-wasting, overly caffeinated ventures to extend our health spans or even our lifetimes. All we need to do is get back to nature, and use the 3 bn years of free R&D we have on this planet to design biomimetic human systems that minimise entropy and maximise fairness and healthy competition. This won’t be easy, but it sure as hell ain’t rocket science. I believe it’s our best shot at a free, fair and healthy society, which is worthy of our children and our children’s children. Cheers, Jesse.

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  • Thu, May 14, 2020 - 1:43pm

    jtd

    jtd

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    jtd said:

    The thought of 100 more years of life is appalling to you?

    You are on an amazing living planet teeming with biodiversity more complex than you are even capable of imagining.  It is a gift to be here.  If you are in unbearable pain, either physical or emotional, then I can understand.  I just cannot comprehend anyone finding life appalling.    My condolences.

    But,  if you are appalled and ready to exit, that does free you up to put your body on the line for what you believe, and for those you love.

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  • Thu, May 14, 2020 - 1:59pm

    Mark_BC

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2010

    Posts: 437

    3

    Mark_BC said:

    If I wasn't stuck working, I'd spend all my time studying and protecting that biodiversity. I'd love to live for a million years if I could do that. There is no end to the knowledge to learn about life and over thousands of years you could watch evolution at work.

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  • Thu, May 14, 2020 - 2:44pm

    Pipyman

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 24 2011

    Posts: 120

    0

    Lol!

    You converse conspiritard you!

    🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪

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  • Thu, May 14, 2020 - 2:56pm

    Pipyman

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 24 2011

    Posts: 120

    0

    Thanks!

    • Now I know why I just can’t press play..,,

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  • Thu, May 14, 2020 - 3:20pm

    vshelford

    vshelford

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 13 2014

    Posts: 166

    6

    Re appalling

    The thought of 100 more years of life is appalling to you?

    You are on an amazing living planet teeming with biodiversity more complex than you are even capable of imagining.  It is a gift to be here.  If you are in unbearable pain, either physical or emotional, then I can understand.  I just cannot comprehend anyone finding life appalling.    My condolences.

    But,  if you are appalled and ready to exit, that does free you up to put your body on the line for what you believe, and for those you love.

    jtd:  I imagine I might have had the same response as you, when I was younger (although I doubt I would have added the last couple of sentences).

    But I would ask you to reconsider the assumption that I "find life appalling." Of course it is an amazing living planet, and I love and treasure every natural molecule of it, as has, I trust, been clear in other posts. No doubt none of us can fully imagine its complexity, but what I do see holds me spellbound every day, and will do for as long as I last. However, there are also seasons of life that humanity is not entirely separate from. Many, if not most people, as they get older, find it easier to imagine not being here in this body and personhood forever - possibly another of nature's "gifts" because that's also the way it goes.

    No, I'm not in unbearable pain, but age and some level of pain and generational disability do rather go together, and you get more and more tired of it, which distracts one from the enthusiasm one feels for one's own enjoyment, and brings the harshness of others' lives more into focus. Over-population and the stripping of nature and the very biodiversity you love would accelerate with this particular use of technology. So no, much as I love the planet and all its life-forms, I don't see myself as separate from them and free to continue my use of its resources past the same natural cycles that the rest of life is subject to.

    You'll notice I also appreciated that Sergey himself recognized that his vision was "radical" and expected it to be modified by other balancing forces.

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  • Thu, May 14, 2020 - 8:07pm

    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

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    Joined: Jun 04 2012

    Posts: 502

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    Reflections on life appreciation...

    I am making a conjecture here.... To say what you have said causes me to think that you are a young person, jtd,  not yet sufficiently/significantly touched by life and all that that entails. 'Young' of course being subjective, not measured in years, but in lived experience. I could be wrong of course.

    I am a 'young' 61 year old. Fit, healthy, a bit overweight, but able to by and large do what I want, whether shovelling yards of soil, splitting cords of wood, doing my daily work outs, or engaging in intellectual debates. I am, by some people's measure, an 'old person with a disability'. I am profoundly deaf. I put on a good front though with my adaptive skills... as most people with disabilities do. This is a requisite survival skill.

    If push comes to shove, will they give the ventilator to me, or the person in the next bed who is 20 years younger and has 3 kids? Since I believe I know the answer to that, irrespective of my provincial government's Ethical Framework for Medical Decision Making which seems to have adequate protective measures, I am under no illusions. Survival of the fittest remains the name of the game. The disabled and other marginalized equity groups are usually the first to draw the short straw.

    In keeping with vshelford's comment, I adore this world, this country of mine, this beautiful province and city I live in. It is nothing short of magnificent. It is heaven on Earth. But my experience of life on this Earth, as a person with a disability, has been anything but heaven on Earth. I recently retired after 42 years of working, still dealing with the same exclusionary issues in my last year as when I started way back when as an 18 year old. How sad is that? Yes, there are constitutional rights, Charter rights, but within a complaint based justice system. We all know how well that goes....

    To circle back to the original intent of this response, ya, I am f'ing tired of the fight to belong in a world that more often than not gives me implicit and/or explicit messages that I am not wanted. I have fought to take my place, valiantly, subserviently, humbly, knowing that as long as I was a slave to this backward system my star would never shine bright. I did shine though, in spite of it. I will always try to shine. To do less would not be 'Jan'.

    There are so many marginalized people who are unable to see the light for all the darkness. I know I am much better off than most, for sure. I do understand though: a limited life span provides an exit from a hell on Earth existence.

    I think of this issue kind of like a being at great dinner party. Everyone one is having a wonderful time. Most go home at the allotted time. Some want to stay and keep partying even though the host is not into it.

    To each unto his/her/their own. If you want to live a couple hundred years, have at it. I do hope you have a really good financial planner and an even better therapist. I personally will be happy to go when nature says it is time for me to go. Knowing myself so well, I am certain that when I do exit this life someone, something, some deity, will say "don't let the door hit you on the way out!" LOL

    Jan

     

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  • Thu, May 14, 2020 - 9:03pm

    #42
    Steven Kelso

    Steven Kelso

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    Joined: Aug 22 2018

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    7

    Scientismistic Cargoism

    Scientism is the mystical belief in the omnipotence of science.
    Cargoism is the mystical belief that technology will solve any human predicament.

    Anthropologist Joseph Tainter makes the case for declining marginal rates of productivity in his book, The Collapse of Complex Societies. The more complex a society becomes, the less discoveries are made, science becomes less efficient, etc.

    Do we even need to discuss the concept of carrying capacity, or is that still in the ridicule phase of truth? How many humans can the Earth support without oil? 1-2 billion, maybe?

    Transhumanism is the new cargoism. These same folks want to colonize Mars. Mars is dead. What does this say about a person's psychology?

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  • Thu, May 14, 2020 - 10:52pm

    #43

    thatchmo

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    Joined: Dec 13 2008

    Posts: 254

    1

    The Man from Earth

    This discussion made me think of this movie, available on Prime:

    https://www.amazon.com/Man-Earth-David-Lee-Smith/dp/B077N4M7PQ

    Aloha, being well, Steve

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  • Thu, May 14, 2020 - 11:23pm

    #44

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1057

    2

    Ision

    Embrace Life and learn to smile at Oblivion.

    Oblivion - the state of being unaware or unconscious of what is happening.

    That can be intentionally obtained.  I like getting into the “flow”!   It’s actually easier than smiling at stupidity.

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  • Fri, May 15, 2020 - 4:47am

    LesPhelps

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2009

    Posts: 652

    2

    I Stand Corrected

    But for the record, when I talked of drudgery, I meant the kind of jobs that flourish where wealth inequality has run amok, and large swaths of the population have few choices but to do hard physical labour long past when their bodies can take it, cleaning up after the super-entitled who despise them, homeless "camper force" people counting themselves lucky if they can make it through another day, week, month of gig work for Amazon or whoever else will throw them a crust.

    I have been fortunate enough to be largely able to pick the types of “work” I engage in.  The fact that now I choose to do work that others, who have no choice, consider drudgery doesn’t change that.

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  • Fri, May 15, 2020 - 5:38am

    #46
    robie robinson

    robie robinson

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    Joined: Aug 25 2009

    Posts: 1077

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    Oh My Brendon Watt

    you really like your expletives.

     

    shame on you.

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  • Fri, May 15, 2020 - 6:08am

    #47
    robie robinson

    robie robinson

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Aug 25 2009

    Posts: 1077

    1

    Oh my brendon watt into typing a reply to you

    a lack of decorum and self control on your part has little to do with my opinions on death and dying.

    Robie Robinson, a pascifist who voted for neither warmonger in 2016, and sits amazed that I was suckered into typing a reply to you.

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  • Fri, May 15, 2020 - 6:20am

    Dontknownothin

    Dontknownothin

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 14 2020

    Posts: 21

    5

    Trump is Hitler reincarnate, huh? Fooled us again Satan.

    That is the most asinine thing I have ever read. The deliberate destruction of millions of people methodically rounded up and exterminated versus Donald Trump.

    Trump has at no point received political backing from anyone in politics, not even Republican "supporters". The bureaucracy was so in the tank for his rival that to this day we are still unravelling the conspiracy.

    You can bet none of them would have released a virus under his sanction. The media announces every time he farts just to make sure his reputation suffers for it.

    He was the first western leader to announce HCQ as a treatment and now the NIH and CDC and everyone else has spent the last two months trying to prove HCQ is dangerous and criminally negligent treatment because it stings when launched from a slingshot at a persons casket to the refrain of "HCQ doesn't stop people from dying, its garbage"

    You are going to believe what you want to believe regardless of the evidence, but just note that Trump has been under sustained attack since before he even began his presidency and would never be able to do something so nefarious so pick another villain.

     

    The sad thing is that even when he's right, everyone wants to prove him wrong and we flounder for months with trials and accusations quibbling over trivialities and technicalities in order to undermine his presidency.

    That doesn't sound like Hitlers experience at all. I'm pretty sure Hitler was welcomed with open arms. Maybe you should consider whether your hyperbole actually undermines your case rather before you draw absurd comparisons.

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  • Fri, May 15, 2020 - 6:24am

    LesPhelps

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2009

    Posts: 652

    5

    Profanity

    So if I don’t swear. You are ok with that.

    Yes, exactly so.

    If you are moderately inebriated, in a bar, and swear to make your point, it’s one thing.  Using profanity, in virtually any other instances, is a reflection on you, rather than an ideal way to get your point across.

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  • Fri, May 15, 2020 - 6:35am

    DaveDD

    DaveDD

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Sep 08 2019

    Posts: 179

    4

    Joseph Tainter: 2017 PeakProsperity-podcast

    For people who don’t want to read this book, here is a link to a PeakProsperity podcast:

     

     

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  • Fri, May 15, 2020 - 6:49am

    #51
    Steven Kelso

    Steven Kelso

    Status: Member

    Joined: Aug 22 2018

    Posts: 28

    11

    The Petri Dish is Starting to Smell

    Have you noticed how the new folks have begun to taint the culture around here?

    Internet debates are cute. Here it’s a waste of time. Are you providing actionable information? Are you providing valuable insight to help shape “a world worth inheriting”? If not, please leave. This isn’t Facebook. If you want to spew vitriolic hate, then GTFO. Talking about killing people? Have you even watched the Crash Course?

    Where’s the “Shun” button on this thing?

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  • Fri, May 15, 2020 - 7:17am

    Steven Kelso

    Steven Kelso

    Status: Member

    Joined: Aug 22 2018

    Posts: 28

    4

    Belief in Science is Scientism

    "Try him and execute him in the future and all his family that followed him. Sooner the better for the world ...And all the people that lie and follow him. Execute them all."

    Huh, the internet has a record of you asserting a different opinion. Perhaps you should calm down and choose your words more wisely?

    Science isn't a belief system. It's a tool, similar to a hammer, a lawnmower, or math. It requires no belief. In fact, science requires disbelief, in so much as all scientific inquiry is based around falsifiability. This is probably why science falls apart after so many generations: people start attempting to prove their theories, instead of disproving them.

    TL;DR
    Science > Scientism
    Scientism=Religion

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  • Fri, May 15, 2020 - 7:19am

    Dontknownothin

    Dontknownothin

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 14 2020

    Posts: 21

    4

    Brendan Watt, chill out

    I do not take medical advice from politicians. I don't take political advice from celebrities. And I don't take financial advice from the Fed. If anyone injected bleach they brought it on themselves.

    I have the benefit of thinking for myself, you on the otherhand seem trapped in a spiral of irrational hatred for a single politician on whom you have caste all blame for the current situation because it confirms your own biases to do so. If only Hillary Clinton had won, you would have your messiah and you wouldn't have to tolerate seeing Trump fumble through a global pandemic (and I'm sure she'd listen to you too). Good thing there's people like you out there to show us who the devil truly is, we were all so blinded by his great hair we couldn't think straight.

     

    Get real. There are few politicians that have or would have managed this any better. With partisan politics and money influencing politicians, there isn't a single way this would have turned out different in this country. Big Pharma would still be pushing their expensive drugs, bailouts would have still happened, small businesses would still get screwed, and the taxpayers would still pick up the bill. And honestly, millions of people are still going to die and the virus isn't going away. Deal with it the best you can cause there are far worse things coming that haven't revealed themselves yet. Then you'll have something new to pin on your scapegoat.

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  • Fri, May 15, 2020 - 7:53am

    vshelford

    vshelford

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 13 2014

    Posts: 166

    1

    Re standing corrected

    Hey Les - I'm sorry,  I didn't mean to sound like I was"correcting" you, but rather agreeing with you while also amplifying the idea I had started with.  If you are able to help with the harvest, I'll bet the farmer is grateful.  We have a blueberry farm on the "big island" next to ours, who has been running it for generations now, but every year it's been getting harder and harder to find workers to harvest them.  He can't afford to pay living wages because he can't sell his excellent product for more than people, used to agri- business imports, are prepared to pay.  The workers who need the jobs can't afford to live here, or have expectations of a techno utopia where physical work no longer happens,  or are already so far down the abyss of mental illness/ptsd/addiction that they can't find their way.  It's a strange world, where people on all sides of the economic equation are finding things don't "fit" any more.   Divisions no one specifically intended are widening on every front.   Individuals like you (and I, and much of the PP community) just look around and do what we realistically can to help,  alleviate,  and throw whatever weight we have on the side of the productive and useful, trying to stay aware and adaptive as we go.

    As someone said,  "The more I learn,  the less I know."

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  • Fri, May 15, 2020 - 8:39am

    #55

    Adam Taggart

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: May 25 2009

    Posts: 6469

    12

    Brendon Watt Placed On Moderator Review

    Yesterday was a busy day recording new content, so I've spent this morning catching up on the site and just read through the recent comments here.

    New user Brendon Watt regrettably triggered a number of violations of PP's Site Posting Guidelines & Rules. We have removed his comments on this thread and placed him under moderator review.

    Hopefully, being new here, he's able to orient himself around our "polite dinner party...before drinks are served" standard of decorum and demonstrate a sincere desire to return and engage folks respectfully.

    As always, Chris and I are grateful for the restraint and grace with which this community deals with these incidents.

    cheers,

    A

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  • Fri, May 15, 2020 - 1:07pm

    Kirsters

    Kirsters

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 08 2020

    Posts: 2

    1

    Smart Granny w/grit

    Nicely said, Granny. I hope you write & publish or have a blog b/c you are clearly a woman who thinks deeply, is wise, & has valuable advice. I resonated with 110% of your comments. I'll be following your posts from now on, girl! (I can call you "girl," cuz I'm a "girl," too 😉 ) Be well!

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  • Fri, May 15, 2020 - 3:13pm

    Pipyman

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 24 2011

    Posts: 120

    6

    Hmmmmm

    I’d say:

    science = empiricism, reality.

    science + human beings = Scientismy

    science + human beings + money + flawed incentive structure + corporate interests + digital book burnings = The fourth turning.

    I suspect far too many people talk about “science” and far too readily forget that in practice “science” today looks a whole lot like the last one on my list.

    Luckily Chris doesn’t seem to forget that...

     

    Thanks Chris

     

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  • Fri, May 15, 2020 - 3:43pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 1044

    1

    Brendon Watt

    Damn i miss all the fun.

    Seems like in the old days there was an alert moderator function in the comments. Perhaps it is time to institute it. It could function as a "video cameras in use "deterrent.

    I am guilty of using profanity but i refrain from directing it at anyone here. Ad Homs are a sign of a weak argument and an even weaker mind. Flame wars are an unnecessary distraction. I really do not relish wading through inane exchanges that diminish the quality of the discussion.

    There are no political solutions to the human condition

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  • Sat, May 16, 2020 - 12:28am

    Shubug

    Shubug

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 05 2016

    Posts: 9

    3

    Science

    I had a similar conversation this morning:

    Scientists aren’t science.

    Scientists are human, and fallible.

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  • Sat, May 16, 2020 - 4:29am

    David Kendrick

    David Kendrick

    Status: Member

    Joined: May 13 2020

    Posts: 9

    0

    Futurism to the rescue

    I would suggest a visit to Issac Arthurs youtube channel SFIA

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqKQ94DtS54

    The problem is those with  belief systems getting in the way for profit.

     

     

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  • Sat, May 16, 2020 - 3:56pm

    #61
    David Allan

    David Allan

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Nov 15 2009

    Posts: 57

    3

    Life is here and now

    It's interesting that those most wanting to grasp at the prospect of enhanced longevity are generally the least able to experience the fullness of the present moment. Acquiring a potential lifespan of 200 years is a bit like acquiring a financial fortune - it fills a feeling of lack created by the mind.

    As one comes to realize life is only ever here and now the need to escape into mental distractions seems to slowly fade.

    (Having said that, my appreciation of the present moment would certainly not be diminished by a financial windfall!)

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  • Sat, May 16, 2020 - 6:31pm

    #62
    kunga

    kunga

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 368

    1

    Off topic?? UFOs and ETs

    Does anyone else find it weird/interesting that disclosure stories keep popping up in the middle of the pandemic?  I know, it's about time, already! but the stories are getting lost in the swirl.  Maybe, the giant sucking sound is the secret space program vacuuming up all the money.

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  • Sun, May 17, 2020 - 6:36am

    Steven Kelso

    Steven Kelso

    Status: Member

    Joined: Aug 22 2018

    Posts: 28

    0

    Off Topic: Disclosure

    I've studied this phenomena for almost a decade.
    For me, disclosure means something completely different.
    For me, disclosure hammers home one of the primary messages of Peak Prosperity: Nobody's in charge; nobody's in control; all we have is each other.

    There's been decades of UFO conspiracy theorists who have claimed, to no end, that the government has technology, bodies, etc. The most credible witness they can produce is Bob Lazar. I've always remained skeptical of these claims. The B-2 Spirit looks like an alien craft, but that doesn't mean it is one, or that it was reverse engineered from one.

    No, at the end of the day, the government is just as clueless as everyone else on this planet. The best takeaway from this is the demise of the "nuts & bolts" "we come in peace" extraterrestrial hypothesis. They are called UAP now instead of UFO. Phenomena being the key word change, versus physical Object.

    It's alien in the truest sense of the word, but likely not extraterrestrial. The question becomes, who's actually wielding those laser pointers?

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  • Sun, May 17, 2020 - 12:43pm

    #64
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 1044

    2

    Just Guessing

    I guess you are all real busy. I do not listen to podcasts. i read transcripts.

    Unfortunately there is no transcript.

    I hope that means the gardens are getting the attention they deserve

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  • Sun, May 17, 2020 - 2:00pm

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1057

    0

    David Allen

    Amen, wish I could give you two thumbs up!

    AKGrannyWGrit

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 6:25am

    #66
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 1044

    2

    An ontological moment

    Well I finally read the transcript and had an ontological moment.

    I also had a Jurassic Park moment. "You can but should you?"

    This site is geared towards a mechanistic view of the world. There is not a space for the deeper philosophical questions raised by Sergey, ie not a podcast with the Dalai Lama say. A glaring omission is the question of how we all live together. There are lots of social questions that went unanswered or asked.

    So just exactly is the purpose of human life? Are we just parts of a machine? If the goal is to increase longevity aren't we all going to die anyway? Then what? With one billion people already experiencing food insecurity isn't this an elitist idea.

    Basically "are we spiritual beings having a material experience or are we material beings who may or not be having a spiritual experience?"

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 4:00pm

    #67
    kleymo

    kleymo

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 28 2012

    Posts: 38

    1

    an aside on the articles "a" and "the"

    I am sure that everyone who listened to the podcast could not fail to note the interviewee's English to be less that perfect. I just finished doing the transcript, so got quite close and personal with it. I also happen to be an English as a Second Language teacher, and speak Russian. So, I know what is going on here.

    The speaker in fact did not make too many mistakes. He was merely making the same type of mistake consistently. What we often do when speaking a foreign language is apply the rules of our first language to the second. This is especially the case when dealing with complex ideas and language, as was the case here. Unhappily for the Russians, they have to deal with these "bizarre and useless" articles (a/the/zero article) that English speakers have. In Russian, there is no need to worry about articles, since they don't have them. Another problem the speaker sometimes had was with verbs. Well, in Russian the verb "to be" isn't even used in the present tense.

    A little more on his mistakes being committed consistently. When learning another language, we have to be careful to not learn to say things the wrong way. It is very difficult to unlearn things. They are in fact referred to as fossilized mistakes, they get so ingrained in our brains. Drilling, drilling - usage, usage - in context, in context. That is what it takes to relearn.

    If I were the speaker's "English doctor" I would have him drilling phrases he uses often that contain articles, do cloze activities with articles, and record himself using them. It would probably take him about a month of work (around 1-2 hours a day) to fix it.

    Don't get me wrong, he does a good job. I know for a fact that my Russian is not as good as his English. If I were living there, it might catch up to his English, though (I like to think).

    Do svedania!

     

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