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    Second Waves Of Coronavirus Infections Are Pretty Much Guaranteed

    It appears 'the hammer & the dance' will be with us for a long time
    by Adam Taggart

    Saturday, May 16, 2020, 7:31 AM

As much as we would just like it to go away, second waves of covid-19 infections are pretty much a certainty at this point.We’re already seeing initial proof of this in Asia in the very countries that have to-date been most successful at suppressing the virus: Hong Kong, China and South Korea.

Even after extended lulls in cases, they’re finding that opening social movement back up results in flare-ups in new covid-19 clusters.

It’s quite possible that these second waves will be followed by third and fourth waves, as a growing number of scientists worry that the coronavirus may never go away — as it can hide in asymptomatic carriers and because it mutates so rapidly that a permanent vaccine may not be realistic.

Don’t forget to get your free download of Peak Prosperity’s book Prosper!. Given its relevance to preparing for any kind of crisis, pandemic or otherwise, Chris and I are now making it available to the world for free during the covid-19 lockdown.

To download your free copy, click here.
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164 Comments

  • Sat, May 16, 2020 - 9:25am

    #1
    Neon

    Neon

    Status: Member

    Joined: May 14 2020

    Posts: 1

    3

    Belief & Belief Systems

    Dear Chris,

    Please think about the following two sentences:

    "I'll believe it when I see it"

    I'll see it when I believe it

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  • Sat, May 16, 2020 - 9:27am

    #2

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1047

    5

    Subway was great!

    Alaska is opening up and slowly, trying to return to normal.  I went to several garage sales yesterday with one of my grand-children.  The first garage sale had a sign that said “masks required” all the rest had no such sign. People were trying to distance themselves, some wore masks and some people didn’t.  Since all the sales were outdoors there were a few who didn’t wear a mask, but mostly people did.  All were respectful.

    I also took the munchkin to Subway for lunch.  No tables and a barricade in front of the food so customers could not get close to the food.  The same people were working there before the quarantine were there yesterday.

    Perhaps we should create a sign with relevant statistics.  If you are under 50 and in good health your chances of dying from the virus is what?  1%?  By comparison what are our chances of dying from driving?  Do we stop driving?

    I feel fortunate, I got the virus, got over it, no problem and do not live in fear.  (I am in my 60’s) Hug my grand-kids and go to subway.  Shove a mask in my pocket and put it on to make YOU feel comfortable.

    Recently talked to a friend who has only been out once in about the last two months.  This person is scared to leave her home.  Her world has gotten small and she is afraid, just as the Overlords want her to be.  That’s not how I want to live.

    Whats your belief and fear level?  I hear fear in some members here. Some, not so much.

    AKGrannyWGrit

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  • Sat, May 16, 2020 - 10:42am

    #3
    gyurash

    gyurash

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    Joined: Sep 07 2016

    Posts: 46

    14

    Studies designed to fail

    I’m a business owner that has been strongly impacted by the virus situation. I meet with my management team weekly to strategize on how we can adapt the business. My business is not in the medical field, but why would we expect them to work differently. These studies don’t pay for themselves. They often are applying for grants, or justifying budgets from parent businesses. People holding those purse strings will be doing the same thing I and my team does, strategize on how to stay in business. Furthermore, it would be naive to think that people at this high level of finance have no conflicts of interest. Their moral fiber would be sorely tested by the choice of presenting people with a treatment program that costs a few dollars, or patented therapies that support monopolistic price opportunities, particularly if they would personally benefit from such. I think we are observing just more examples of where morals stand in the U.S. Anything goes, and nothing matters. No conspiracy theory need apply, it is just our culture as presently practiced.
    Another fine topic for an enterprising reporter with some integrity would be an investigation on conflicts of interest among top tier health officials. Although, good luck to them getting permission to publish from their editor. If their news organization gets any advertising dollars from companies that also get implicated, well there’s another conflict of interest. The human condition does not make things easy.

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  • Sat, May 16, 2020 - 3:44pm

    #4
    Chucki

    Chucki

    Status: Member

    Joined: May 16 2020

    Posts: 1

    12

    Just tested positive for Honey Badger Virus.

    My symptoms are:

    1. Difficulty getting a full breath (although I can still jog lightly)
    2. Light headed (not dizzy or losing balance)
    3. Feeling faint when I get up quickly from sitting

    *No coughing, sore throat, sinus trouble, fever, chills, muscle pain, or loss of smell

    Likely got it at Walmart (place of employment)

    I'm concerned about re-infection and mid to long term effects. All bets are off when you are dealing with a bio-weapon / gain of function experiment gone wrong.

    Remedies I've tried so far: Nebulized Silver Sol, Wormwood extract, Vitamin D, Natural sunlight, black tea, Super Quercetin, Milk Thistle, Zinc Picolinate, Vitamin C

    Thanks to PeakProsperity for the invaluable info and hard work!

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  • Sat, May 16, 2020 - 9:05pm

    Brent Van

    Brent Van

    Status: Member

    Joined: May 09 2020

    Posts: 3

    6

    Don't wait

    Don't wait to see if you can get hydroxychlorquine, azythromycin and zinc. You probably don't need the quercetin if you can get hydroxychlorquine. If your regular doctor won't order it for you keep calling until you find someone who will.

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  • Sat, May 16, 2020 - 11:28pm

    #6
    duke252

    duke252

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    Joined: Feb 24 2020

    Posts: 3

    5

    Inmate positive for a month- no spread. Hydroxychloroquine, bad tests?

    I live in Lake Co.- a rural county by the Bay Area. Despite large amounts of cases in the counties surrounding us, Lake County has only has 8 cases (yes, everyone wears masks.) The last case was very interesting and I wanted to get your thoughts on it. Out of precaution, on April 14 the county health officials tested all the inmates and correctional officers at the county jail. Nobody was showing symptoms so the tests were not prioritized and, as a result, the tests results were not sent back until May 5. One inmate had tested positive. They immediately isolated him,  but he had been with the general population for weeks. They continued to test everyone at the facility. No one else ever tested positive and the infected inmate tested negative twice and has already recovered. Everyone should have gotten this virus the jail and I thought it was odd that they didnt. Is it possible the tests are returning false positives? If so, maybe everyone that didn't show symptoms never really had it. But if they are testing for antibodies then that theory goes out the window. Does anybody have a reasonable explanation? I heard California gave all inmates hydroxychloroquine to all the inmates and officers at the jails. If that's the case,  maybe it works pretty well as a preventative medicine after all. Any thoughts?

    Also, big thanks. My father-in-law has diabetes and high blood pressure. Hes also notorious for not taking care of himself.  Thanks to your YouTube videos, which I make him watch, he wears masks everywhere he goes and has started taking vitamins.

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  • Sun, May 17, 2020 - 1:33am

    #7

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2188

    8

    herd immunity threshold

    Ran across an intriguing possibility: the HIT (Herd Immunity Threshold) is generally thought to be around 60%.  That's the numbers that the models use.  I believe this is because that is what is observed in vaccination programs.

    However, this assumes a random selection of the population gets a vaccination.

    In a "natural" pandemic, the distribution of infection is not random.  Not to put too fine a point on it, but more social people (those with more social connections) will end up getting it and spreading it around to more people.  These super-spreaders (or even, modestly-higher-spreaders) will get infected first.

    However, once all the super-spreaders are taken out of the picture (either from an unfortunate outcome, or by conferred immunity) they won't be doing the spreading anymore.  This will drop the R0 of the virus, not because of the virus itself, but because those darned overly social people aren't causing trouble any longer.

    Bottom line: this paper suggests that the HIT may be between 15-20%, not 60% or higher.

    And in fact, in Sweden we are seeing roughly 17% infected, and we have seen infections peak, and they are starting to fall.  Note that Sweden is a useful example because lockdowns are not driving their numbers artificially lower.

    Note too that NYC has roughly the same percentage infected.

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.27.20081893v2.full.pdf

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  • Sun, May 17, 2020 - 4:26am

    #8

    Oliveoilguy

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jun 29 2012

    Posts: 826

    0

    Covid19 Bond fund benefits investors not the sick

    https://www.brettonwoodsproject.org/2020/04/world-bank-pandemic-bond-instrument-fails-in-covid-19-response/

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  • Sun, May 17, 2020 - 6:06am

    #9
    dryam2000

    dryam2000

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Sep 06 2009

    Posts: 417

    5

    Culture

    The culture of a community or country has a huge impact in battling CV-19.  The American culture (or lack of) has to be one of the worst to this end.  Americans are very resistant to having their “freedoms” curtailed in any way.  I haven’t witnessed any of the protests firsthand, but all the video I’ve seen from all over the country shows virtually no one wearing a mask & minimal social distancing practices.  These people are so self-involved they can’t even see how their behaviors argue strongly against their voiced demands.  People can’t comprehend that wearing masks, social distancing, etc. is mostly about protecting others in society.  Somehow many Americans translate “being free” as having the right to be ultra selfish and tread all over the welfare of others.  Every infection risks the lives of so many others.  If people simply behaved appropriately with basic preventative practices, then parts of the economy could open up with minimal medical risks to society at large.  Make no mistake, parts of the economy have to get going as the indirect effects of CV-19 is going to kill way more than CV-19 itself.  Having said that, there are certain businesses that simply do not pass the risks vs. benefits test.  I would include hair cutting places, most restaurants/bars (take-out is ok), gyms, etc.   My suspicion is that our “leaders/politicians” are afraid to make hard decisions on prohibited business practices out of fear of political backlash from all those Americans who demand their “freedoms”.   Society needs to change and adapt, not unlike all living things, when confronted with new environmental pressures.

    In regards to Sweden, their current numbers are not consistent with success in my book (approximately 10x worse than their neighboring Scandinavian countries).  Only time will shed light on which methods are most effective in the overall management of this outbreak.  Keeping schools open is plain ridiculous if you ask me.  Kids go to clustered schools and spread it to their family when they come home.  Yes, that’s probably the surest method to have it burn through a population.   I rarely come across any articles in the MSM in regards to the medical aftermath of all those who “recovered” from CV-19.  Most people equate “recovered” as not dying and returning close to their previous state of health.  I think this extremely inaccurate and very incomplete.  Much more time has to pass before there can be a good quantification of the resulting medical sequela of CV-19 for those who “recovered”.

    Now Trump is pushing for schools to reopen per what is reported by the MSM.  Maybe burn through is his plan??  Screw that, our kids will not be attending school.

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  • Sun, May 17, 2020 - 6:19am

    Kathy

    Kathy

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    11

    In some states it is illegal to prescribe HCQ off label

    And the pharmacists are instructed to rat out the doctors.

    So much for “my body, my choice.”

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  • Sun, May 17, 2020 - 6:19am

    #11
    Jay Pine

    Jay Pine

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    Joined: Feb 15 2020

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    4

    Study 'confirms' human brought virus INTO the wet market at Wuhan.

    Curiosier and curiosier.

    "Importantly, the market samples are genetically identical to human SARS-CoV-2 isolates and were therefore most likely from human sources. "

    Not that many here didn't already know that, but can't be denied anymore or muddied about (you'd hope).

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.01.073262v1

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  • Sun, May 17, 2020 - 6:26am

    Kathy

    Kathy

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    Joined: Feb 21 2020

    Posts: 56

    8

    Question what you see

    Always remember that picture you see was carefully selected to push an agenda.  Taken from another angle they may actually be six feet apart or the crowd cropped out of the picture might have masks.

     

    Many Americans have died so that we may be free.  Many Americans understand freedom comes at a cost.

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  • Sun, May 17, 2020 - 6:27am

    Jay Pine

    Jay Pine

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    Joined: Feb 15 2020

    Posts: 16

    0

    Daily Mail article

    British paper reporting this:

    (The Daily Mail is often of questionable trust but it does pay journalists better than most, so inamongst the dross, decent information can arise.)

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8326823/Landmark-study-Virus-didnt-come-animals-Wuhan-market.html

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  • Sun, May 17, 2020 - 6:47am

    #14
    dryam2000

    dryam2000

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    Joined: Sep 06 2009

    Posts: 417

    5

    Kathy, I question everything I see

    Kathy, I question everything I see.  I completely get that almost all things in the MSM, social media, etc. have a slant to them.  I’ve seen video from the MSM, cell phone video from protest participants on social media, etc. that has consistently presented a similar picture.  I would love to see video of protesters behaving appropriately in regards to CV-19 if anyone has it.  I have a very open mind, and I always like more info than less.

    I would argue that most Americans do not have a full appreciation and understanding  for those who have died in efforts to protect America’s freedom.  The United States used to have one of the strongest collective cultures in the world where people were more concerned about the collective whole than their individual pursuits.

    Again, “freedom” for one citizen does not equate to having a license to imperil others in society.  “Freedom” does not equate to open anarchy.  Life is the first stated unalienable right listed in the Declaration of Independence.

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  • Sun, May 17, 2020 - 6:52am

    #15
    Chrisboersma

    Chrisboersma

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    Joined: Feb 25 2020

    Posts: 12

    9

    Chrisboersma said:

    I'm finding evidence the authors of HCQ studies were paid by (or receive benefits from) Gilead (eg. Qing Xie).   This is something to consider.  The HCQ studies are so bad they appear deliberate.  Several studies are using excessive amounts of HCQ to induce negative reactions (> 1000 mg per day).

    Prior research by author was fully funded by Gilead.

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  • Sun, May 17, 2020 - 7:02am

    DaveDD

    DaveDD

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    Joined: Sep 08 2019

    Posts: 172

    1

    Re: herd immunity

    Hi, David I presume?

    Thanks for the article, gives me some hope. I read the article, pretty nice actually. The model is most definitely a huge improvement, but unfortunately there are still some uncertainties. Time will tell.

    Grts, Dave (or David, how many of us are there over here?)

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  • Sun, May 17, 2020 - 7:23am

    DaveDD

    DaveDD

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Sep 08 2019

    Posts: 172

    1

    HCQ in Germany?

    In reaction to Kathy’s post, I searched information about HCQ use in Germany. My interpretation:  there seems hardly any resistance there. Additionally, it seems that there is a large off-label use, and it is allowed to treat patients with HCQ.

    Question to German pipinauts: is this true?

    https://www.kbv.de/html/1150_45482.php

    here is part of the google-translated text:

    April 6, 2020 - The Federal Institute for Drugs and Medical Devices has issued an order for the use of medicinal products containing hydroxychloroquine. The background is their increased off-label use in the treatment of COVID-19 patients. The arrangement is intended to ensure the care of chronically ill patients who are affected by the approved indications.

    Specifically, the institute has ordered that the use of medicinal products containing hydroxychloroquine outside of the approved indications (off-label use) and outside of clinical trials should only take place in the context of an individual healing attempt in inpatient-monitored COVID-19 patients.

     

     

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  • Sun, May 17, 2020 - 7:47am

    DaveDD

    DaveDD

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Sep 08 2019

    Posts: 172

    0

    DaveDD said:

    Hi Chris,

    Could you tell us how you found this? I think that more posters here are interested in this very useful skill!

    Grts, Dave

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  • Sun, May 17, 2020 - 8:06am

    stevedaly

    stevedaly

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Apr 23 2020

    Posts: 142

    0

    Same as US?

    "individual healing attempt in inpatient-monitored COVID-19 patients."

    Doesn't 'healing attempts' mean someone already ill?  Doesn't 'inpatient' mean someone already admitted to a hospital?  Maybe this is the same as in the US.

     

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  • Sun, May 17, 2020 - 9:06am

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2188

    4

    herd immunity

    DaveDD-

    Yeah when I ran across this one my jaw dropped and I said "of course!" to myself.  I like constructing models (although not of this sort) and this was a refinement that totally made sense.   We can't know at this moment what the number actually might be - that's the unknown - but it is definitely less than 60%.  And the concept provides some explanatory power as to why regional infections appear to be peaking out at (roughly) the same percentage of infected people in many different locations.

    Another 2-3 months and we'll have a much clearer idea.

    It does suggest an interesting strategy however.  Locate all the ESFJ's in the population, explain to them that they are the ones most likely to get infected, and offer them a free vaccination - either that, or give them HCQ as prophylaxis.

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  • Sun, May 17, 2020 - 9:19am

    #21

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2188

    6

    Hong Kong hamster test: masks likely work for SC2

     

    Hamsters placed in adjoining cages with infected subjects were infected at a 66.7 per cent rate; the introduction of a barrier saw the percentage drop to 16.7

     

    https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/article/3084779/coronavirus-hamster-research-proof-effectiveness

     

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  • Sun, May 17, 2020 - 9:48am

    VeganDB12

    VeganDB12

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jul 18 2008

    Posts: 235

    1

    conflict of interest

    That is huge and reprehensible. No one wants their grants pulled.  If they have active grants with Gilead that is concerning. Can you provide sources?

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  • Sun, May 17, 2020 - 9:48am

    DaveDD

    DaveDD

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Sep 08 2019

    Posts: 172

    2

    DaveDD said:

    Hi Steve,

    Yes, you might be right.

    My reason to research this is twofold. Once I was hospitalized in Germany due a climbing accident. What I noticed is that they are way more open to “alternative” approaches. That combined with the very low CFR makes me wonder what special approach they have, can’t be the bratwurst and sauerkraut alone.

    I read some German papers and visited some websites, they report about the FDA stance, but I did not find that many negative “news” reports. I did find an article about a plan to test the efficacy in Tuebingen, but I could not find anything about the results. So I hope that there might be some Germans who could enlighten us.

    (edited: added some links to german news, all in german, sorry)

    • April 3rd- Bayer delivered 600.000 chloroquine tablets (source)
    • Chloroquine efficacy test (source)
    • https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RRLQ_Y4jaWI

    Take care.

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  • Sun, May 17, 2020 - 9:56am

    #24
    Chrisboersma

    Chrisboersma

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 25 2020

    Posts: 12

    4

    Gilead paid Xie

    Qing Xie; ROLES Data curation, Formal analysis, Writing – review & editing
    AFFILIATION Infectious Diseases, Ruijin Hospital, Shanghai, China

    Added (as of April 2020): Qing Xie: Speaker/advisor: AbbVie, BMS, Gilead, Janssen, MSD, Novartis

    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/authors?id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0230893&fbclid=IwAR3GlRsXWB3E6jagyqsvo-rtOu6Z5z8sq0kdMr6-JaLeCwhnmT2GHLFv7ZA  [21 references to Gilead]

    - April 10, 2020

    Just Google - they're everywhere - I quickly found 3 studies with Gilead all over them.

     

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  • Sun, May 17, 2020 - 9:58am

    Mary59

    Mary59

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 09 2020

    Posts: 109

    1

    DM trying

    Daily M is trying to present things and they, out of many MSM , do give some space to "conspiracy theory".  Their readers are definately more awake than other MSM followers for sure.  I like DM for this reason, plus it is fun to read.  They do not censor the comments very much either.

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  • Sun, May 17, 2020 - 10:24am

    #26

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 2436

    16

    Nevada & Michigan Ban Public HCQ for COVID, then stock-up for prisoners

    Nevada Governor Found Hoarding Hydroxychloroquine After Banning Drug

    Bronson Stocking. Posted: Apr 04, 2020 5:15 PM

    Nevada Governor Steve Sisolak, Democrat, had a kneejerk reaction to President Trump's optimism about a malaria drug that might be an effective treatment for the Wuhan coronavirus.

    Trump was hopeful about the drug, so anti-Trump Democrats like Sisolak were against it.

    Gov. Sisolak banned (hydroxy)chloroquine as a treatment for COVID-19, ostensibly over concern of hoarders stockpiling the medicine and causing shortages for patients who use the drug for other ailments like Lupus and Rheumatoid Arthritis.

    But while the governor restricted the public from receiving the potentially life-saving drug, Nevada's Department of Corrections began stockpiling the drug for prisoners.

    According to sources at the drug maker, Concordia Pharmaceuticals Inc, Nevada prisons ordered a large number of their anti-malaria Hydroxychloroquine drug under the name, Plaquenli. Nevada prisons has literally ZERO cases of prisoners infected with the COVID 19 virus to date.

    The Nevada Board of Pharmacies and the Governor claimed the rule barring doctors from prescribing the drug outside of hospitals was to "stop hoarding." After Sisolak’s ban went into effect, the State Prison hoarded the drug in a mass just in case they had break out.

    Gov. Sisolak refused to reverse his order even after the FDA issued an emergency order earlier this week approving the drug for use against COVID 19.

    .

    Eh tu Michigan?

    Unbelievable. And Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer is no better. When reports that (hydroxy)chloroquine showed promising signs as a safe treatment for the coronavirus, and after President Trump expressed his optimism over the drug's efficacy, Whitmer moved immediately to block Michiganders from gaining access to the potentially life-saving treatment. Both governors cited concerns over shortages, but alternative medicines are available to treat lupus. And if they haven't noticed, we're kind of in the middle of a pandemic.

    Drugmakers have already ramped up production of (hydroxy)chloroquine in response to increased demand, and people still need a prescription from a doctor to obtain the medicine. The FDA has now issued emergency-use authorization of (hydroxy)chloroquine for COVID-19, so the focus at this point should be making more of this promising drug, not restricting its use amid a global pandemic for which we currently have no vaccine.

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  • Sun, May 17, 2020 - 11:08am

    #27
    KathyP

    KathyP

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jun 19 2008

    Posts: 51

    2

    Henry Ford Health System's PrEP Clinical Trial - “Will Hydroxychloroquine Impede or Prevent COVID-19,

    FYI, Henry Ford Health System has a clinical trial underway investigating HCQ as a preventive therapy for COVID 19.

     

    https://www.henryford.com/whip-covid-19

    https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04341441

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  • Sun, May 17, 2020 - 11:25am

    Chrisboersma

    Chrisboersma

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 25 2020

    Posts: 12

    6

    Chrisboersma said:

    Henry Ford Health System is also participating in two Gilead Phase 3 clinical studies to evaluate the safety and efficacy of remdesivir in adults diagnosed with COVID-19. These are randomized, open-label, multicenter studies.

    I also find it strange that the: "Estimated Study Completion Date : April 30, 2021" for the HCQ study (way too late to be useful).  But the Phase 3 remdesivir study will be ready "May 2020"

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  • Sun, May 17, 2020 - 1:07pm

    #29
    James

    James

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    Joined: Sep 19 2013

    Posts: 24

    0

    War and Peace between Microbes: COVID-19 Edition

    If anyone is interested in the biologic basis for the protean and multitudinous manifestations of "COVID-19" check out the following. It does take a while to get going, but it is mind-blowing in its implications...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynCYggioBLc

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  • Sun, May 17, 2020 - 2:26pm

    #30
    moheli

    moheli

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    Joined: Nov 06 2011

    Posts: 36

    2

    End of concerts ? Cruises ?

    In Belgium no one died between 0 and 24 years and only 31 died between 25 and 44.  On a total of more than 9.000 deaths that were liberally registred (presumed cases).

    Young people will resume their lives as soon as they will be allowed to, I think. And so will these parts of the economic activities that depend on their consumption.

    Cruises are not for them, so yes, cruises maybe dead for a number of years.

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  • Sun, May 17, 2020 - 4:47pm

    #31
    nancybeck

    nancybeck

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jun 05 2009

    Posts: 22

    5

    Stephen Buhner Posted Updated Herbal Protocol

     

    Check out the researcher and herbalist Stephen Harrod Buhner for his latest research and herbal protocol for COVID-19. Stephen is an excellent researcher and herbalist. I trust the depth and breadth of his understanding of plants, people and the disease process.

     

    http://www.StephenHarrodBuhner.com  

    Check out link under "Articles" tab, then Herbal Protocol 5/17/2020

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  • Sun, May 17, 2020 - 7:37pm

    #32
    Truth9834

    Truth9834

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    Joined: Feb 05 2020

    Posts: 30

    6

    Hydroxychloroquine along with zinc sulphate and the antibiotic azithromycin study

    Researchers at NYU's Grossman School of Medicine found patients given the antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine along with zinc sulphate and the antibiotic azithromycin were 44 percent less likely to die from the coronavirus.

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 5:10am

    #33
    David McKenney

    David McKenney

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    Joined: Mar 25 2020

    Posts: 84

    1

    To get immunity...

    HCQ should be used as a backup, not as a prophylactic, in my opinion. One needs to get sick for an immune response to develop. Am I correct?

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 5:22am

    #34

    thc0655

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 27 2010

    Posts: 2081

    7

    Are reopenings really causing an uptick in cases?

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 5:27am

    #35
    David McKenney

    David McKenney

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 25 2020

    Posts: 84

    1

    The best explanation of CORONA PANDEMIC so far...

    Plans were made years ago for this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-FA1HxzwqE&feature=youtu.be

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 5:40am

    #36
    David McKenney

    David McKenney

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 25 2020

    Posts: 84

    0

    The Dow

    I heard the Dow will go way up the next day or two. Already above +700 at 8:30.

    Done posting for the day. Am retired but still go to work. I split tractors.

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 6:56am

    GCTIII

    GCTIII

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 11 2020

    Posts: 2

    6

    The uptick

    Hi THC

    I live in Arkansas and my hat is off to our governor for his handling of the virus and re-openings of the local economy.  Having said that I am so tired of the divide in this country. Many people have demonized our governor because, "oh my god we had an uptick in cases".

    What the media fails to explain to people is the more you test the more you will find have the virus.  I think they need to be looking at other numbers not those positive from the test.  Our hospitalizations and those on ventilators have not changed.

    Have you seen the medias coverage of people not social distancing in certain places?  many photos are taken at an angle to make you think they are not doing social distancing.

    My son's both had Kawasaki syndrome while I was stationed in Germany back in the 80's and trust me they have nothing to do with any form of covid. More fearmongering for the masses.

    In closing so many media outlets want to scare the crap out of you, because they have an agenda. WHAT ARE THOSE OF YOU GOING TO DO IF THEY NEVER DEVELOPE A VACCINE? One insight after examining the southern hemisphere is this is not going away in my opinion.

    We cannot stay locked up forever!!!

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 7:51am

    #38

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2188

    5

    the uptick

    I believe the media is using this as a "grade" for your leadership.  Down is an absolute good, regardless of the price you pay to make that little line drop.  Regardless if its just 4 cases down to 3.

    "We will pay any price, bear any burden, even if we have to destroy the overall economy and put everyone out of work, just so we can make that little line drop down from 4 to 3.  Only then will your leadership get a passing grade."

    Notice we went from "flattening the curve" and "preserving the hospital system" to "making lines drop on charts."

    And your particular state?  It doesn't have a problem.

    Here's "the uptick" in context.  One caveat: I used an MA7 to smooth out the silly stuff on the weekends, so the data will lag a bit in both directions.  But it makes the trend more obvious - and we are doing "strategy" here so we want to see the trend most of all.

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 7:53am

    #39
    stevedaly

    stevedaly

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Apr 23 2020

    Posts: 142

    2

    Austrian study says COVID-19 was likely created in a lab

    "It [the study] continues, noting that a “possibility which still cannot be excluded is that SARSCoV-2 was created by a recombination event that occurred inadvertently or consciously in a laboratory handling coronaviruses, with the new virus then accidentally released into the local human population.”

    Dr Petrovsky added in a statement that, rather than being rapidly genetically spliced and mutated, the virus shows signs of being  ‘cultured’ to evolve over time."

    Austrian Study Finds ‘Sign Of Human Intervention’ In Coronavirus

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 8:10am

    David Kendrick

    David Kendrick

    Status: Member

    Joined: May 13 2020

    Posts: 7

    5

    "Somehow many Americans translate “being free” as having the right to be ultra selfish and tread all over the welfare of others"

    Go's way back to the founding of the nation, if it were not for the selfish me me attitude the attack on France which started the 7 years war would not have taken place, the US would have not had the sons of liberty independence movement AKA the world's first terrorists and having paid their share of the bill of the war they began, the USA would still be the original 13 colonies without a Canada to the North where the surrounding Natives would not have been genocided to extinction, but mostly all Citizens. They certainly got to be so in the French & Spanish parts of the continent, after Spain stopped enslaving them. A different sort of America - a confederation of nations, and no nasty outcome. We certainly would have had far fewer wars.

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 8:17am

    David Kendrick

    David Kendrick

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    Joined: May 13 2020

    Posts: 7

    0

    DM

    The comments are censored by bot and staff, they rarely make it to the comments section after 'processing' - unless its a reply, the most important thing is comments get closed - if they are too heated, and unlike with other comments, you will never know if yours are not posted unless you page through 100's to 1000's on the page. Sometimes it got posted and there is a reply in your email - which you can only reply to yourself to. So you cant in fact reply.

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 8:24am

    TurquoiseRose

    TurquoiseRose

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    Joined: Feb 26 2020

    Posts: 86

    3

    You need to be exposed to develop immunity- at what cost?

    We know that asymptomatic people and those with mild symptoms can have abnormal lung changes.  Those with especially detrimental SNP's, polymorphisms can have severe disease-  How do you know it won't be you?

    What if the SARS vaccine part- INS1378 to pShuttle (patented by the Chinese) with the HIV-1 Kenya 2008 piece/ cause antibody enhancement syndrome. The second infection leading to extreme organ damage.

    uhttps://jameslyonsweiler.com/2020/01/30/on-the-origins-of-the-2019-ncov-virus-wuhan-china/

    There are still alot of unanswered questions out there.

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 8:46am

    stevedaly

    stevedaly

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Apr 23 2020

    Posts: 142

    1

    Great Comment

    Why are stadium/arena sports, video games, shoot em up car chase movies, MMA so wildly popular?  Do we have a dark fascination with survival of the fittest?  Should we be breeding ultra masculinity out of us?  Do we need to colonize beyond Earth to survive as a species?  Should AI be making our decisions?  ????

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 9:50am

    #44

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 2436

    15

    Sheryl Attkisson Special: Polarization over HCQ is Repub vs Dem issue

    Hydroxychloroquine - politics, money & medicine
    Sharyl: Camps largely divided along political lines. Many right-leaning media figures sided with hydroxychloroquine while the left-leaning press backed remdesivir. Each accusing the other of ignoring real science.

    Sharyl: Cardiologist Dr. William O’Neill is a medical director at the Henry Ford Health System in Detroit, Michigan where they’re studying both remdesivir and hydroxychloroquine.

    Dr. William O’Neill: I've never seen science politicized in 40 years of practice.

    Some people in the media are treating hydroxychloroquine as if it's something that's being pitched by charlatans, it's dangerous, and that's been debunked and discredited. What do you make of that?

    Dr. O’Neill: I think that's very harmful. President Trump touted it early and so then the media set out to disprove and discredit it without any regard for science. I think those of us that are actually involved in the scientific endeavor feel that there is some value to it and it has to be tested.

    Sharyl: Dr. O’Neill says he’s prescribed hydroxychloroquine to help numerous coronavirus patients and saw improvement in all of them. He’s less impressed, so far, by remdesivir.

    Dr. O’Neill: There's a lot of hype for the drug [Remdesivir]. I saw the original new England Journal article study and I saw the Lancet study and to me it's just like a big Ho Hum. I just don't see a big benefit to it.

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 10:18am

    #45

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 2436

    10

    Vaccine Court Payouts -- Quarterly Report of March 6, 2020

    The quarterly report for the Vaccine Court Injury and Death Compensation is now available.  (They are archived at an anti-vaxx website, but this is the only place I know where to find the powerpoint quarterly summaries.)

    From their spreadsheet we have 74 cases total, 60 of which were for the flu shot.

    -Guillan Barre Syndrome, 11 cases

    -Transverse Myelitis, 5 cases

    -Acute Disseminated Encephalomyelitis, 2 cases

    -Chronic Demyelinating Polyneuropathy, 4 cases

    -Multiple Sclerosis, 1 case

    -Miscellaneous injury, 54 cases

    Another significant trend is the movement in vaccine injuries from children primarily, to adults in the last decade.  This is because the flu shot is now by far the most common vaccination causing about 1,000 cases of injury compensation per year from the DOJ program.  Childhood vaccine injuries remain steady just under 200 compensated injuries per year.  [Edit:  Note that most of the flu shot injuries are devastating neurological injuries, the kinds that send a patient to a nursing home for months to years.]

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 11:04am

    #46
    summitday113

    summitday113

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 29 2020

    Posts: 28

    9

    A hospital in Texas getting COVID treatment right

    So far, all 50 patients treated have lived.

    "Varon, who has also been consulting with colleagues in China, Italy and Spain, employs a treatment of steroids, blood thinners, Vitamin C and hydroxychloroquine"
    https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-05-15/this-small-texas-hospital-is-finding-ways-to-save-covid-19-patients?fbclid=IwAR13DXXZa_R5VosAwVgIM2S3M6_ndOaFqYODbIRRON7rqBhE3rZD18mnmLI

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 11:59am

    wildtravel

    wildtravel

    Status: Member

    Joined: May 29 2013

    Posts: 42

    2

    Dichotomies

    "I'll believe it when I see it"

    “I'll see it when I believe it”

    Nice one, Neon. As Niels Bohr observed:

    “The opposite of a true statement is a false statement, but the opposite of one profound truth is more often than not another profound truth.”

    I do believe, sir, you have expressed two profound truths.

    For myself, who believes in everything and holds nothing sacred, and at the same time believes in nothing and holds everything sacred, it’s just common sense really.

    Common sense BTW, is something I alone possess, and others do not. I observe Chris appears to believe the same thing. Likewise, I alone act with integrity against other’s ideological rigidity. Just ask Chris after the video, and I’m confident he’ll be able to tell us all about ideological rigidity.

    Having avidly followed Chris’s work since 2008, I consider his prescience, intellect, expertise and analysis skills second to none. The guy’s probably smarter than most of us put together. So, I forgive him his little bursts of intellectual arrogance. Who am I, an expert in nothing, to presume to judge hogwash compared to an expert in hogwash?

    And yet judge I do, and as we must, being ever mindful that all experts in particular, are “inverse cripples”, as Nietzsche described, wth “too much of some things, and not enough of others.” I too hope Chris will give your proposition some thought, Neon.

    “What urges you on, and arouses your ardour, you wisest of men, do you call it ‘will to truth’
    Will to the conceivability of all being: that is what I call your will!
    You first want to make all being conceivable ……. But it must bend and accommodate itself to you!
    This will your will have it. It must become smooth and subject to the mind, as the mind’s mirror and reflection………
    You want to create the world before which you can kneel: that is your ultimate hope and intoxication.”

    Friedrich Nietzsche, “Of Self Overcoming”, “Also Spoke Zarathustra”

    And perhaps if Chris really wants to do his head in, he might ponder further for a moment if the world is not comprised of dichotomies like those he indicates in this slide at all, but that each dichotomy represents pairs, not opposites, which together are one and one truth?

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 12:38pm

    #48

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1047

    0

    wildtravel

    You remind me of Sam Vacknin.  I am posting a link to a recent podcast so you can become acquainted.  Enjoy

    Sam is really very smart and has a sense of humor.  He is an interesting guy!

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 12:51pm

    wildtravel

    wildtravel

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    Joined: May 29 2013

    Posts: 42

    1

    Way to Go!

    Way to go Dave Fairtex!  An MBTI diagnostic tool.  But if you really want to cover all bases and protect all the people who don’t get it and are most likely to get it, you’d need to do all the sensors and most feelers as well.  Not to forget a lot of thinkers too.

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 1:06pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 781

    4

    Kudos Sand Puppy

    Besides Chris's posts yours are the ones I look forward to most.

    Thank you.

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 1:59pm

    Grover

    Grover

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Feb 15 2011

    Posts: 782

    5

    Prophylactic treatments

    David McKenney wrote:

    HCQ should be used as a backup, not as a prophylactic, in my opinion. One needs to get sick for an immune response to develop. Am I correct?

    David,

    That depends on whether Antibody Dependent Enhancement (ADE) is an issue with SC2 as it was with the original SARS virus. If ADE is an issue, having antibodies could make subsequent infections worse than the original infection. In that case, never getting the first infection is the best overall strategy. Hence, a prophylactic that prevents the first infection makes sense.

    The common cold is caused by a coronavirus. There has never been an effective common cold vaccine because the virus mutates so easily. Any mutated virus that can evade the body's immune system can successfully propagate and infect others. If the vaccine only contained the virus and an inert carrier (like saltwater,) that would be one thing. Vaccines have all sorts of adjuvants to improve vaccine study efficacy. Sand_Puppy started this thread about vaccines: https://www.peakprosperity.com/forum-topic/vaccines/ I recommend anyone thinking that any SC2 vaccine is a cure-all to read the thread.

    Frankly, I expect that this virus will be with us from now on. It is already too widespread and infectious along with transmitting asymptomatically to ever be eradicated. Since it likely can't be eradicated, the next best defense is to keep it from finding a home in the body. Face masks, gloves, goggles, and washing hands will help to lessen the viral load, but none of these offers a foolproof barrier. The next defense is keeping the body healthy with good nutrition so its defense mechanism has the vitamins and minerals it needs to function properly. If the body fails to contain the virus, then medical intervention becomes necessary.

    I've been enjoying my Covid cocktail nearly every afternoon. It's a gin and tonic with a side order of roasted pumpkin seeds (high in zinc.) The tonic water contains quinine - the natural ingredient that chloroquine and HCQ synthetically mimic. I also inhale about 1/2 teaspoon of nebulized 10 PPM ionic/colloidal silver (CS) once a week. CS is an effective in vitro antiviral, antibacterial, and antifungal agent. There aren't any studies saying it will work on this particular virus, but why would the medical industrial complex want that studied? There's no money in it for them. That's why they are pooh-poohing HCQ. It's an off-patent drug that doesn't provide them adequate income to keep their machine functioning. They are more concerned with their financial health than they are about the public's health. It is just the way it is.

    Grover

    Edit: If you want to learn how to make your own ionic/colloidal silver, here's a place to start ... https://www.peakprosperity.com/forum-topic/learn-how-to-make-colloidal-silver/#

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 2:36pm

    #52
    lunableu22

    lunableu22

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    Joined: Oct 19 2011

    Posts: 51

    1

    Here's another interesting perspective about this event

    Global Capitalism, “World Government” and the Corona Crisis

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 2:46pm

    #53
    Kat43

    Kat43

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 10 2020

    Posts: 48

    2

    Trump is taking HCQ plus zinc!

    Prophylactically, according to zerohedge.  I don't know if this has been reported here yet.  Yowsa!

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 2:47pm

    #54

    saxplayer00o1

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jul 30 2009

    Posts: 3134

    6

    Watch the press bash Trump for using Hydroxychloroquine With Zinc

    Hydroxychloroquine With Zinc

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 2:58pm

    #55
    Angi

    Angi

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 10 2020

    Posts: 59

    1

    Free OREGON - Judge Prevails!!

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/null-and-void-judge-tosses-oregon-governors-covid-19-lockdown

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 3:08pm

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1206

    5

    Trump

    I kind of figured once his valet came down with the virus, that Trump would need to protect himself.  I'm not sure people realize, but if Trump and Pence were both incapacitated with the virus, next in line to lead would be.........................   Nancy.

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 3:12pm

    OhioAngie

    OhioAngie

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    Joined: May 15 2020

    Posts: 4

    0

    OhioAngie said:

    Chucki,  Don't forget to sip tonic water.  There is some quinine in there that will help the zinc get past the disguised cell membranes in the infected cells.  Get well!

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 4:35pm

    oclisa

    oclisa

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    Joined: Nov 22 2008

    Posts: 51201

    2

    Questioning the Sweden Bashing

    However.....

    Despite the negative slant we read in the media regarding Sweden’s COVID public policy, I would like an HONEST discussion. Yes, some of Sweden’s European neighbors have lower deaths per total population from COVID; others do not. But if we look at two states, Massachusetts & Michigan, with similar total population numbers; these two states having strict lockdown protocols, we find that the death rates in those states quite a bit higher than Sweden’s. (In particular, Massachusetts, which has 3 million less residents but over 2 thousand more deaths. There are many other seeming irregularities if we accept that lockdown/masks are beneficial. While we can look to some countries that had strict lockdown and almost universal mask-wearing and see positive results, that is not always the case. There seems to be something else going on. How can this be explained, for example:

    Sweden Population ~10M. Some social distancing rules but relaxed compared to most other Western countries. Masks not recommended for most situations.  Total deaths from COVID ~3,700.

    Massachusetts Population ~7M. Strict lockdown rules, masks required in public (as of May 6). Total deaths from COVID ~5,900.

    Michigan Population ~10M. Famously strict lockdown rules, masks required in public (as of April 24). Total deaths from COVID ~5,000

     

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 5:08pm

    Janie-em

    Janie-em

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 05 2020

    Posts: 43

    3

    Sheryl Attkisson Special - great info.

    Thank you for this, I'm so glad to see more credentialed scientists speaking out against the big media complex and their propaganda against HCQ. It seems more and more evident that these sites want more deaths, and more destruction of the economy and public health. I realize why drug companies want to discredit a drug they can't make any money from. They are willing to have death and destruction for their own greed, but the journalists and social media sites who are working to cover up an efficient treatment for this virus are such hypocrites. It's why I trust very few news sources now. History will not be kind to these people.

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 5:19pm

    Linda T

    Linda T

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jun 09 2014

    Posts: 132

    1

    Re: Free Oregon Judge prevails

    Angi,

    Before you super excited,

    From the online article and link I provided below, "

    "Less than three hours later, the governor’s office appealed to the state Supreme Court to keep her emergency orders in effect.

    “This will ensure we can continue to safeguard the health of all Oregonians — including frontline health care workers, those living in nursing homes, workers in agriculture and food processing plants, and Oregonians with underlying health conditions –– while the legal process moves forward,“ she said in a statement.

    And,

    ""The governor’s orders are not required for public safety when plaintiffs can continue to utilize social distancing and safety protocols at larger gatherings involving spiritual worship,'' he ruled."

    "Oregon governor’s coronavirus restrictions on religious gatherings, other emergency orders ‘null and void,’ judge rules"

    https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/2020/05/judge-finds-oregon-governors-coronavirus-restrictions-on-religious-gatherings-null-and-void-governor-to-seek-state-supreme-court-review.html

    It has been my experience so far that some people are good at wearing masks and practicing social distancing, others not as all... As a bus rider, and waiting to get called back to work after being laid off almost 2 months ago (even though I am getting unemployment, I do look forward to going back to work, and am grateful I have somewhere to go back to work at!), where the customers were horrible regarding those NDI's, I am apprehensive how that will work out. Wait to see what the Oregon Supreme Court rules...

    Linda

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 5:44pm

    sofistek

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 02 2008

    Posts: 762

    2

    Young people

    Young people will resume their lives as soon as they will be allowed to, I think. And so will these parts of the economic activities that depend on their consumption.

    I hope young people don't think that the rest of us are expendable as they resume their lives.

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 5:46pm

    sofistek

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 02 2008

    Posts: 762

    0

    HCQ prophylactic?

    Not sure but has Chris reported on any studies that suggest HCQ+zinc can actually protect people from getting the virus?

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 6:19pm

    wildtravel

    wildtravel

    Status: Member

    Joined: May 29 2013

    Posts: 42

    0

    So Busted

    See, AKGranny, I told you we we were kindred spirits!  I’d put money on it you’re my shadow , INFJ, to read me so well.   I’m warming to the idea you do actually know the brown stuff when you see it alright.  You’ve got me nailed there.  Baffle ‘em with bull faeces, so you can slip under their radar, and assist them to hoist themselves on their own petard.

    In my career my managers thought I talked funny too, and they punished me by making me dress up in an Italian suit and Zegna tie and play with the psychopaths in executive management, who didn’t see me coming either, and treated me like the village idiot, and most gratifyingly, therefore no threat to them.  Bad mistake to threaten a psychopath, even if you don’t realise it, because you are toast before you even know what hit you.

    That all worked well, till I would deliver my consultants report and an expensive invoice and watch them realise the Board will gladly consider the money well spent, and at the very least they can kiss this years bonus goodbye, if not their job.

    ”Wicked thoughts!  Oh, what a wicked huntsman have I become.”  Nietzsche, “Beyond Good and Evil”

    So, from many close encounters of the unpleasant kind, on that question if the ultimate corporate warrior, the psychopath, is human, the answer is kind of.  Bearing in mind they’re predictable as clockwork in holding power and control paramount, I’ve looked in these predators’ eyes and watched the beads flicking back and forth on their abacus, and seen their gears whirr and slot into place, as the blood lust mounts in anticipation of the kill ..... until .....

    And you just know that it’s better than sex for them, and explains why endless amounts of that is never enough, and why they eat narcissists for breakfast (because they are one).  One actually admitted to me once they were an “emotional retard”, but had benefited greatly in learning to mimic emotions because it made them a far more efficient hunter.

    The trick with this lot is to remember their greatest strength is also their Achilles heel.  Their short suit is personal power, and the only real power they have is the power of their position.  That is no match for the ubermensch (the overman) whose only power is the power of self overcoming.

    Sing along with me here, AKGranny:

    ”Allons enfants de la patrie.  Le jour de gloire est arrive.  Contra nous de la tyrannie. L'étendard sanglant est levé ....

    Marchons, marchons, qu’un sang impure ...”

    Stirring stuff hey! Liberte, egalite, fraternite.

    Go the White Hats.

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 6:51pm

    kunga

    kunga

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 368

    2

    Oregon

    Lots of "rebels without a clue"  in eastern Oregon.

    I hope they keep Nevada and Deschutes County locked.  Why people think G*d likes ignorant people, because He made so many?

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 6:52pm

    #65
    Hladini

    Hladini

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    Joined: Dec 28 2011

    Posts: 239

    0

    New Vid

    I find Chris' new daily video in the strangest places!  I missed the one above, but if anyone else is having trouble here is the link for today's briefing  (all about the federal reserve):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mXPwNQc3lc

     

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 6:57pm

    kunga

    kunga

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 368

    1

    Psychopaths

    Psychopaths are not "human."  Smart predators with no conscience.  Most animals are better.

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 8:41pm

    Hohhot

    Hohhot

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Mar 12 2020

    Posts: 69

    5

    NYT /Chicago Tribune try to push social distancing- a 2006 HS student's sociology paper

    Saw Daniel Horowitz's column today about the myths of Covid 19. Surprised to read the concept of social distancing's origin. Evidently it was picked up by then Pres. Bush during a flu outbreak. He was widely ridiculed by the scientists- now it's law.

    https://www.conservativereview.com/news/horowitz-lied-6-facts-change-everything-know-sars-cov-2/

    2 articles appeared nearly simultaneously touting this non-proven concept. NYT /Chicago Tribune intertwined isolation, quarantine, and social distancing. I'm furious at the lies.

    Terminology matters. Please do not consult the corrupted urban dictionaries, but epidemiological sources. Isolation is the removal of the sick from the well. Well people do not “self-isolate." Quarantine is the separation of large groups. Within the subset are mixed smaller groups of the ill (prodromal), the soon to be ill (new infection), and the well. Quarantine allows the illness to run its course without having clusters contaminate the population at large.
    During the Black Plagues through London, the rich fled to their country homes, dragging disease with them. Country communities who had no cases wisely barred such migration to protect their village. Within the village, life continued as normal, and no one isolated or social distanced. Like air travel, they stopped importing disease.
    There is NO SCIENTIFIC evidence that I’ve been able to find to validate the concept of 6ft. social distancing. If someone has a pre-SARSCov2 study, please publish the reference.
    Airborne definition per USAMRID: Travels over 2 meters (78.8inches), has a small particulate size <10microns, and stays suspended in the air over 10 minutes. In CDC’s hospital guidelines for SARS, they wrote that employees should wear masks when within 10ft. of the patient’s room.  SARSCov 2 has been proven on the Hunan bus cluster to travel over 14ft.“Travels over 2 meters”, therefore, the 6ft. distance is completely inadequate!   In HKG, it was passed through sewer pipes in a building. It is transmitted through air vents. It is AIRBORNE.
    Per CDC’s own documents and USAMRID policies, anything that is airborne cannot be defended against by distance. Examples of such illnesses are airborne anthrax, smallpox, and measles. There is a form of TB found in Russian prisons and orphanages that infects people if you walk through the “cloud” of TB from someone coughing or sneezing 5 minutes later. Look at the military exercise Dark Winter. It was a simulated exercise of an airborne release of smallpox. It ended in less than a week as they determined there was no way to contain it.
    Does the NY subway allow 6ft distances? How about school buses? The trains ? So 6ft apart in the park or restaurant, but up someone’s nose elsewhere. Does anyone believe this logic? If you want to protect people, install UV lights into the air ducts and clean the bathrooms three times per day. Send those with temps home from work or school. It aint that hard.
    Why wear masks? It lowers your personal viral load if you contact virus. This allows your immune system time to respond. Just like for any other viral illness.

     

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 8:59pm

    wildtravel

    wildtravel

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    Hope

    So saddened to read the person who spoke so eloquently on “the banality of evil” let go that banality, and appear so focussed on evil.  As if all our human suffering from this tragedy might miraculously evaporate with the hope that the protagonists might be made accountable and responsible.

    I go with both the Bible and the Ancient Greeks on hope, and see it as both a great good and a great evil in never ending flux inside each of us all.

    Please remember that the great thundering, aegis bearing cloud gatherer Zeus sent Pandora and her jar as a punishment on humankind.  After the four horsemen escaped from the jar like a honey badger and set off to torment us all day and night, Zeus in all his malice bid Pandora close the lid, trapping hope inside.  And to this day humankind clings to Pandora’s jar and hold the hope inside as the greatest of all goods, never realising they hold the greatest of all evils, and suffering eternally in hope for something they will never have.

    ”None can escape the will of Zeus” Hesiod, “Works and Days”

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 9:09pm

    #69
    Linda T

    Linda T

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    Posts: 132

    5

    Re: an update on Oregon

    Angi and anyone else interested,

    Just posted a few minutes ago:

    "Oregon Supreme Court puts hold on Baker County judge’s ruling declaring governor’s coronavirus orders ‘null and void’"

    "In a late Monday ruling, the Oregon Supreme Court stepped in to put a hold on a dramatic decision by an eastern Oregon judge that declared not only Gov. Kate Brown’s restrictions on church gatherings “null and void” but all her “Stay Home Save Lives’’ coronavirus emergency orders."

    "https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/2020/05/judge-finds-oregon-governors-coronavirus-restrictions-on-religious-gatherings-null-and-void-governor-to-seek-state-supreme-court-review.html"

    And also found this:

    "Gov. Kate Brown: ‘My emergency orders ... remain in effect statewide’"

    "Gov. Kate Brown released this statement late Monday on the Oregon Supreme Court’s hold on Baker County Circuit Judge Matthew B. Shirtcliff’s ruling earlier in the day that declared her executive orders on the coronavirus pandemic “null and void”:

    “Following swift action by the Oregon Supreme Court, my emergency orders to protect the health and safety of Oregonians will remain in effect statewide while the court hears arguments in this lawsuit."

    “From the beginning of this crisis, I have worked within my authority, using science and data as my guide, heeding the advice of medical experts. This strategy has saved lives and protected Oregonians from the worst of the COVID-19 pandemic."

    “There are no shortcuts for us to return to life as it was before this pandemic. Moving too quickly could return Oregon to the early days of this crisis, when we braced ourselves for hospitals to be overfilled and ventilators in short supply."

    "The science remains clear: by physically distancing, wearing face coverings, staying home as much as possible and only gradually reopening our communities we can save lives and keep Oregonians safe. “We all look forward to visiting our loved ones in nursing homes, sending our children to school, and going to the grocery store without fear of spreading this disease. But the simple fact remains, COVID-19 is here in Oregon, and lives are at stake.”

    https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/2020/05/gov-kate-brown-my-emergency-orders-remain-in-effect-statewide.html

    Linda

     

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 9:20pm

    Angi

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    Angi said:

    Wow Linda, thanks for posting! Will have to take a look at the judges on the Supreme Court but I don't think this is good news. Say prayers for Oregon, everyone. May set some kind of precedent or warning to other states. Love, from the powers that would be.

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 9:45pm

    #71
    nordicjack

    nordicjack

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    So it looks like this is a herpes , HIV, epstein-barr type keep for ever deal.

    I was reading how a bunch of seamen on one of the US carriers/ships were infected and cleared back to duty after "recovering"  and 16 of them either relapsed or got reinfected.   Either way this is scary stuff because, not only did they test positive after recovery they were symptomatic with flu like symptoms with fever.  So , we have one of two things happening. First you can be reinfected quite quickly again , meaning you dont impart any immunity after being infected and recovering.. Or you keep it and never really clear and it can be reactivated again , like herpes.  Or you plain old never get rid of it like HIV.      Either A or B is really bad news.. It basically makes this a global killer.   Really.!!

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 10:04pm

    #72

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

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    1

    Nordicjack

    There is perhaps a third alternative.  The virus mutated and the sailors picked up a slight variant and had to fight off a different strain.

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  • Mon, May 18, 2020 - 10:11pm

    Angi

    Angi

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    Virus - Longevity

    I have been pondering the US Military restriction on virus survivors, and why they would be singled out. I think there was a policy change from complete restriction to OK if they tested negative. I'm not 100% clear on that - does someone else know? Anyway, my thought was that the virus seems to target people who's immune systems are compromised for one reason or another over a healthier immune system. So you might say the virus seems to target the unhealthiest among us first. Since the military needs strong and vital people, maybe they are simply eliminating the less healthy contenders from applying. With so few jobs to be had in a decimated economy the military will now be a choice that must be considered by the 20-30 yr. olds who's futures and possible college plans have suddenly crashed.

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 2:00am

    Crashguru

    Crashguru

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    Crashguru said:

    This Supreme Court reminds me of Volksgerichtshof fascists

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 2:20am

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2188

    12

    expendable, HCQ prophylaxis

    sofistek-

    Seriously.  You can stay in your bunker from now until the sun goes dark.  That's your choice.  You can (and probably should) wear a mask in areas that are more dangerous - cool, dry, recirculated air.  Like a subway or bus.

    But to force or "guilt" the young people to live in bunkers too, when they are largely NOT at risk, really seems unfair to me.  And I am not a young person, so I'm not talking my book the way you are.   You seem to be saying, "please stay hidden away, lose your jobs, wreck your future, so I have less of a chance of being hurt."  Just seems like jealousy to me.

    Hospitals: not overrun.  Curve: hammered flat.  Now let's get on with life, so the young people can have a future.

    Regarding HCQ as prophylaxis - there have been a large number of "indications", the strongest one (for me) from a retrospective study of lupus patients in Italy, who take HCQ regularly.  They have a 90% lower incidence of COVID-19, and none of them were hospitalized.  Clinical trial ongoing, expect results by end of month.  Then Trump can take his (un-deserved) victory lap.

    Understand, Trump should not get this opportunity.  Science and good public policy should have prevailed.  The fact that it took our reality-TV-star president to get our "sickcare" industry (allegedly the smartest medical minds in the room, who only have our best interests at heart) to even consider this drug tells you everything about just how corrupt our society has become, how far we have fallen.

    $1000/treatment remdesivir, never used before - a fire-drill-trial, with a very ho-hum result.

    $20/treatment HCQ/AZI/Zinc treatment, all substances with good safety records, used for decades, with very positive indications, and a 7-day treatment regime - no trial results for 6 months.  Thanks, NIH.  You've really got my back.  Hopefully in 6 months you'll remove the knife you just stuck there.

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 3:03am

    sofistek

    Status: Platinum Member

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    Eh?

    Not sure what you thought I wrote, Dave, but I wouldn't recognise it from your reply.

    I'm just asking the youngsters to think about us oldies before they think they're invincible (they're not) and can live their lives as they had before the pandemic. I didn't make any suggestions about what changes they would make. Of course, many young people have parents and grandparents, as well as, occasionally, older friends and colleagues. Hopefully most would take that into consideration.

    Regarding HCQ+zinc as a prophylactic, that would be great for those most at risk, if it helped more than doing the other sensible things that Chris has talked about.

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 3:18am

    #77
    David McKenney

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    Seems like good news

    Article says Sweden has had no people get sick twice. They think they have herd immunity accomplished. No mention of vit D, C, and zinc.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/health/whitney-race-immunity-sweden-leads-pack

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 3:22am

    sofistek

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 02 2008

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    1

    Michigan, Massachusetts and Sweden

    oclisa, yes, Sweden is an interesting study. I know they've had restrictions for a while (gatherings, distancing, masks in some situations) but am not sure how compliant businesses and residents have been. Their infection curve has not been exponential though it has also not slowed, following more or less a straight line. If it stays that way, that might be the best option. The curves in the US states has started to slow but rose more quickly than Sweden's initially.

    However, for full comparisons we'd need to know more than a few bare statistics, including population density, how mobile the population is and how much it mingles as well as compliance with rules and recommendations.

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 3:35am

    #79
    David McKenney

    David McKenney

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    A Cardiologist's View

    The fake news last night was absolutely disgusting. Had to leave the room. Did they just re-elect Trump? I think Mr. Trump was holding this card in hand waiting for the right time to play it. We know how he works, sort of.

    Read what this cardiologist has to say about HCQ:

    https://www.hospicepatients.org/hydroxychloroquine-a-cardiologist-s-view-louis-grenzer-md-baltimore-md-usa-05-16-2020.html

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 3:39am

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2188

    2

    expendable

    Sofistek-

    My apologies.  I am sure I was over-focusing on that word you used - expendable.  That word drove my response.   I'm really glad you weren't trying to guilt younger people into hiding and throwing away their future and careers in order to keep you personally safer.

    Really, I'm glad that's not what you were saying.  🙂

    There's a lot of fear going around.  We will find out, a year from now, when we have a lot more information, just how much fear was merited by the facts.  I'm guessing - in retrospect - we will assess that it was more than a little overdone.

    Just a guess, of course.

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 4:36am

    #81
    AssessX

    AssessX

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    Joined: Mar 04 2020

    Posts: 20

    17

    My informal poll among physicians reveals...

    I am a health tech consultant. I work with hundreds of doctors at dozens of practices. I have made it a point to ask many of them their opinion on the safety of the HCQ protocol. The vast majority of them not only believe that HCQ is safe if properly prescribed, MANY of them admitted they have a personal stockpile of HCQ to treat family and friends, should the need arise!! I found this to be amazing. MANY are also sick and tired of the politicians and the media dictating how they should treat their patients. Totally anecdotal but true.

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 5:15am

    #82
    David McKenney

    David McKenney

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    Sweden

    I would expect that Sweden's total death rate over the next few years will be lower than average because those sickly people who would have died then, died this year. Just thinking.

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 6:27am

    #83

    Rector

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    Anecdotal Success Story - Brief Rant

    In our local nursing home where there has been 17 deaths - my friend's 92 year old mother came down with CV19.  She was treated with HCQ/AZ/Zinc and recovered promptly.

    I don't need a national policy, the approval of the f*cking government, or anything beyond a doctor's prescription and the common sense to see the long history of this drug in use to understand that it is safe enough*.  Everyone has their own risk tolerance and specific circumstances - experts disagree - some people have agendas.

    I don't GAF what you think about this course of treatment - other than my MD and pharmacist.  I'll decide.  This shouldn't be a political issue.  We don't have to have a national policy consensus or the stamp of approval from the FDA, CDC, WHO, or any other body of "experts" who have largely contributed to this crisis in the first place.

    Rector

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 6:36am

    #84

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 2436

    19

    Agreeing with Rector

    This should NOT be an issue for a governmental agency to act on.

    There is no other medicine where the state governors have issued emergency orders on use.  None!

    There are no other medicines where off label usage is prohibited by law.

    This is absolutely beyond the pale.

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 6:37am

    DaveDD

    DaveDD

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    Joined: Sep 08 2019

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    Sweden

    I so hope that Sweden is right, I truly do. On the other hand I find it risky to assume that immunity exists for this virus. It exhibits features never seen before within one virus. People can seemingly recover, also per test, while the virus is still hidding in their bodies. Additionally, it is not certain that Antibody Dependent Enhancement can not occur. For SARS-Cov this possibility was not excluded (source). To me this is a dangerous gamble. For sure there will be a second wave, winter conditions will aggravate this (less solar exposure, more people indoors), combined with potential mutations, and combined with extraordinary virus behavior, the risk is non-zero that a second infection will be more devastating. Worst case, they primed the herd for severe effects of a second infection; especially if they believe that they are now safe and do not intervene at first sign of symptoms to counter a potential cytokine storm. Best case they are right (I hope and pray they are; this is the best scenario for all of us).

    In other words (and to repeat myself), I would argue that this is not a convex strategy (in terms of Nassim Taleb). The probability is very high that they are right, so their gain is actually a minimized loss (as compared to countries with total lock downs). The probability that they are wrong is very small, but given the current state of knowledge, and given the fact that there are different chains per country, the probability is larger than zero. The outcome in this case could be that some, or many, people with immunity will succumb to cytokine storms. As a reference, now it is believed that the second wave of the Spanish flu, was devastating due to ADE (source).

    To minimize the impact of this low probability, worst case scenario, I’m stocking up on (a reasonable amount of) supplements that support and regulate the immune system, and discussed (ad nauseam) a protocol with my family. We will use vitamine C till bowel tolerance to test if something is amiss at the first sign of flulike symptoms.

    I’m not a doom and gloom person and I do not want to spread fear. But given the fact that we cannot see into the future, one might want to employ convex strategies (see for example source), and hedge ones bet. The cost could be small, especially if one considers that most of the stuff can be used anyway.

    But again, I hope we do not have to worry about it at all, because we have other worries (money, food etc)

    Take care!

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 6:42am

    DaveDD

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    Can you buy HCQ in the US?

    It is virtually impossible to buy HCQ in the Netherlands, so I resorted to kinabast + zinc. I use vitamin C to bowel tolerance to test the effectivity. I started at 90 grams on Saterday, this morning (Tuesday), it was at 15grams. So I suspect that some components in kinebast (quinine?) is also acting as a zinc ionophore.

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 6:43am

    RPSTemple

    RPSTemple

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    Joined: Jan 24 2012

    Posts: 26

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    Sweden -special case?

    Sweden is certainly an unusual case in several ways.  The most unusual aspect is the number of people who live in single person homes; 41% for the country as a whole and over 50% in Stockholm, their largest city.  Culturally they would consider themselves a  caring society (but see below).  The levels of vitamin D in the population is high compared with other countries, even though it is at a high latitude.  Sweden has a very low test rate compared with most rich countries.

    Anecdotally, (from my son who lives in Sweden) they are encouraging work from home - both he and his partner's firm are having their staff work from home.  We think my son has had the disease, (he had a lot of the symptoms including a high temperature, but he was never tested so did he?) although he and his partner are staying at home and only going out for shopping and exercise. Most of his aquaintances are doing the same.

    As you pointed out, the number of cases keep growing. However an exponential curve with a very low exponent is very similar to a straight line for a long time, so I am holding my judgement on Sweden. I think that there is a possibility that they may have a lot more trouble brewing, but due to circumstances relating to their culture, it may not become obvious until several months from now.

    As to the caring society, look at the following new report on the BBC.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52704836

    (Suspect this may be a cased of diverting attention from our country's performance where there have been a large number of COVID deaths in care home - here is someone doing even worse than us.)

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 7:14am

    MarkM

    MarkM

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    And the beat goes on

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/white-house-vaccine-czar-sells-12-million-slug-moderna-options-massive-profit

     

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 7:56am

    Kathy

    Kathy

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    Agreeing with Rector and Sand Puppy!

    What about my right to privacy!  Why isn’t this a decision that should be made between me and my doctor?

    I am absolutely appalled that the governor of VA who supports post birth abortion (Keep it comfortable while the mother and doctor decide what to do with the failed abortion) has blocked doctors from prescribing HCQ and tasked pharmacists to report off label use of HCQ.

    We let a 20 yo young woman who is too young to buy alcohol or tobacco, kill her baby but forbid a 50 yo woman that doesn’t have lupus from taking a drug for a week that five of her friends take daily and have for years.

     

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 8:58am

    #90
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 781

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    Sweden

    Sweden ranks 6th in the world in cases per mil.

    They are sacrificing their aged population. Sounds good if you are a millenial. Senior? Not so much.

    371 deaths per million. Not too good.

    Sweden is doing worse than the other Scandinavian countries.

    Every country is different in many ways. You cannot cut and paste approaches.

     

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 9:06am

    #91
    kunga

    kunga

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    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 368

    12

    Best quote of the day, PP board

    " The FDA, CDC and WHO have got my back. I just hope they'll soon pull the knife out."

    (Paraphrase)

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 9:11am

    #92
    Angi

    Angi

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    Joined: Apr 10 2020

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    Sweden - Fascinating Info & Intelligence

    Yesterday I watched a podcast with Jason Goodman and Ole Dammegaard. Ole is a native Swede who now lives in Spain. Both he and Jason are excellent & credible researchers and provide high quality presentations and commentary. You can watch a 20 min. intro here and a longer presentation on Subscribestar or Patreon. I learned a lot I never would have known. Highly recommended because of how Sweden connects to the big picture of reality.

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 9:11am

    kunga

    kunga

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    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 368

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    Sweden mortality

    MM, I haven't seen any breakdown by race, but I assume the dark skinned Somali refugees also are dying from Covid-19 at a higher rate than the general population.

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 9:17am

    #94

    jturbo68

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Aug 04 2009

    Posts: 122

    4

    HCQ - no joy

    I had placed an order for HCQ from River Pharmacy a few months back hoping it would be an option if needed.

    They just informed me that India has made it illegal to export HCQ to individuals, so the order was canceled.

    I am thinking that India may need the supply for their own uses.

     

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 9:38am

    #95
    kunga

    kunga

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 368

    3

    Calling all guerrilla chemists

    You guys (gals) can create every mind bending chemical from natural products.  Just how hard is it to make a reasonably non toxic form of hydroxychloroquin from chinchona bark, anyway?

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 11:41am

    #96
    Angi

    Angi

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 10 2020

    Posts: 59

    5

    Reality in Oregon - Tyranny!

    She's brave and beautiful. I hope she has a Go Fund Me Acct. Like Greg Anderson in Washington. I suspect we will all have to take a stand sooner or later. Get ready.

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 11:50am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 781

    1

    Sweden mortality

    I don't make those kinds of assumptions. Most of the dead were over 70 and in care homes.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52704836

    I looked it up out of curiosity and to avoid making assumptions.

    The immigrant population is being disproportionately affected.

    However it is not just the Somalis. Sweden's laissez faire approach has led to lack of communication to all minorities. That includes, Iranis, Iraqis and others. It is also true of other Scandinavian countries. Partly this is due to racism and also class. Just like everywhere lower income people are the ones suffering the most, including economically.

    https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/coronavirus-takes-toll-swedens-immigrant-community-70593594

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 12:08pm

    oclisa

    oclisa

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    Posts: 51201

    5

    oclisa said:

    I continue to wonder why states such as MA and MI with strict lock downs and similar population to Sweden (~10M) have significantly higher death rates than Sweden. (Especially MA!) Maybe over time this will change but I think there are other answers. Strict lock downs don't seem to be all that effective. (And consider that 66% of NYC hospitalizations were of people who were sheltering in place at home.) A month ago I was gung ho on strict lock downs and thought Sweden was making a mistake. Now that more data and science is in, I have changed my mind on both. Can we have some honest discussions rather than trying to protect our position or push an agenda?

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 12:10pm

    #99
    Angi

    Angi

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    Joined: Apr 10 2020

    Posts: 59

    3

    WA Police Officer - Greg Anderson Update

    If anyone has not seen this story it's important. Greg worked for Port of Seattle as a police officer. He made a video and posted it on youtube for fellow officers, regarding constitutional rights, etc. He explains his story briefly here. It's a must watch. His go fund me acct. set up by a friend of his wife is now over 425K!!!......(He hit a nerve!)

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 12:38pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Joined: May 17 2017

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    0

    HCQ no joy ditto

    I also ordered from River Pharmacy but have not gotten that notice. I just emailed them.

    So the 64 million USD question what is plan B anyone have a source?

     

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 12:48pm

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 2436

    6

    HCQ from CanadaCloudPharmacy.com

    A friend found some at this location:  CanadaCloudPharmacy.com

    I've talked with them and they understand that there is indeed supporting evidence for HCQ in COVID for this off label use.  They had absolutely no problem mailing Rx to the USA for COVID treatment and prevention.

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 12:50pm

    Captain Queeg

    Captain Queeg

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    Joined: Mar 25 2020

    Posts: 28

    5

    RE: 0 Reality in Oregon - Tyranny!

    fyi...here in "Pure Michigan", Commissar Whitmer won't allow you get a haircut, but you can certainly get an abortion...just think about that for a minute...

     

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 1:49pm

    Susan7

    Susan7

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    Joined: Feb 15 2020

    Posts: 78

    0

    Back to ivermectin

    So finding a physician with whom you have no doctor/patient relationship willing to Rx the “Dangerous Orange Man Drug” is very unlikely. My order was cancelled as well. It’s back to ivermectin now. I have researched the correct dose but am unclear if it is an ionophore and works with Zinc.

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 2:06pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 781

    0

    Sand Puppy HCQ

    Yes you can get it from them and other Canadian Pharmacies WITH A PRESCRIPTION.

    River Pharmacy did not require a script. I have to check with my doc about getting a script and if it can get refilled.

    Are you using it as a preventative?

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 2:17pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 781

    2

    HCQ BS

    Five months ago anyone could have walked into any doctors office in the US and said " I am going to India and an area with malaria can I have some anti malarial drugs. You would have walked out of there in 2 minutes with a scrip, no questions asked.

    Now in this wonderful country it is more dangerous than heroin. (which I can buy on any street corner in Amerika along with oxycontin)

    TPTB are treading where there just should not tread. There will be blowback.

    I suggest a tax strike to start with. Kinda like a Boston Tea party Stamp Act protest.

    Part of the problem is the people making the decisions are unelected deep state bureaucrats who do not answer to what passes for we the people.

    As Dubya is reputed to have said " Don't throw the constitution in my face. It's just a god damned piece of paper" Truer words may never have been spoken.

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 2:19pm

    Linda T

    Linda T

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jun 09 2014

    Posts: 132

    4

    Re: The best explanation of CORONA PANDEMIC so far...

    David,

    I finally had a chance to finish the YT video

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-FA1HxzwqE&feature=youtu.be

    you posted yesterday “Harry Vox Spills NWO Scenarios Rockefeller Foundation (2014)”. At 1:54 he asks the audience, if they have a copy, go to page 18 & reads “Lockstep” from the document “Rockefeller Foundation Scenarios for the Future of Technology and International Development”, which I’ve downloaded and searched for more info. It’s very spooky as he reads from it, even though it’s 10 years old, it sounds like it was written in the last few weeks, “mandatory restrictions, body temperature checks, face masks, national governments stretch their flexed muscles and authority, rising poverty…”

    At 10:11 mins, the other 2 documents he had “National Security Memorandum of December 10th 1970 physicist Henry Kissinger’s brain child, the National Security of Memorandum number 208, he says that there’s too many people we got to get rid of the population, he says he used the word depopulation which is different or depopulation means killing people had already exist and it’s to get the minerals because we need the minerals. Here’s another one the CDC has a patent on Ebola it patented it yeah so basically if you want to get a cure for your Ebola. Human Ebola Virus Species and compositions and methods thereof and it’s a patent. It’s a patent it, the mainstream plus something like 17 other strains of it so they own it now and I don’t know how exactly you can own that.” The rest is good too…

    https://thewatchtowers.org/lockstep-written-10-years-ago-chronicles-how-to-bring-the-world-down-with-a-pandemic-this-report-was-produced-by-the-rockefeller-foundation/

    Continuing down the rabbit hole, I found this:

    “Vaccines, Blockchain and Bio-capitalism”:

    http://www.wrongkindofgreen.org/2020/04/23/vaccines-blockchain-and-bio-capitalism/

    "Vaccine Markets

    Pay for success finance deals will be well served by the global vaccine market that is being advanced through Gates’s outfit GAVI.  Vaccine doses are readily quantifiable, and the economic costs of many illnesses are straightforward to calculate. With a few strategic grants awarded to prestigious universities and think tanks, I anticipate suitable equations framing out a healthy ROI (return on investment) will be devised to meet global market demands shortly.

    Over the past month, the gaze of investigative researchers has been fixed on GAVI, Bill Gates, Gates’s associates like Fauci, and the over-size influence they are having on public health policy around Covid-19.  Use the link for the map to dig further into the relationships. The members of the 2012 Development Impact Bond (DIB) Working Group Report are of particular interest, since DIBs are being considered as a way to finance vaccination campaigns.”

    "Supply Chain Tracking

    Gates also funded the development of quantum dot vaccine tattoos by MIT, which act as health data bar codes viewable under certain lighting conditions. This nanotechnology is used for such diverse purposes as solar power and device displays. One of the companies developing electronic health records that are compatible with quantum dot data tattoo systems is Quantum Materials out of San Marcos, Texas. Their system runs on Azure, Microsoft’s cloud computing system.

    Now imagine Gates-affiliated entities profiting first from vaccine bonds, then from vaccine development,  from the cloud computing software tracking the data and documenting the impact, and finally from returns on the pay for success deals.

    Meanwhile, the public, those who are actually supposed to be served by health policy, are instead used to generate impact data. This results in healthcare services being platformed, automated, and dehumanized. People will start to lose their humanity, seen only as data, veering into trans-humanist territory after repeated system upgrades.”

    Interactive Map for “Fauci and Gates”:

    https://littlesis.org/maps/4929-fauci-and-gates

    "Fracking Humanity

    Creating an immutable record of doses linked to specific individuals, means investors can assess the “impact” of inoculation(s) they fund and take their profit. On Blockchain this will be made possible using MIT’s Enigma software, which protects “privacy” even as it mines cellular structure for “impact” and turns people into GMOs. Something I’ve had growing concerns about in recent weeks is knowing the Gates-backed initiatives involve the use of mRNA platforms. Moderna is one of them, and they tout their vaccine system as the “software of life.””

    “Supply Chain Tracking

    Gates also funded the development of quantum dot vaccine tattoos by MIT, which act as health data bar codes viewable under certain lighting conditions. This nanotechnology is used for such diverse purposes as solar power and device displays. One of the companies developing electronic health records that are compatible with quantum dot data tattoo systems is Quantum Materials out of San Marcos, Texas. Their system runs on Azure, Microsoft’s cloud computing system.”

    “Now imagine Gates-affiliated entities profiting first from vaccine bonds, then from vaccine development, from the cloud computing software tracking the data and documenting the impact, and finally from returns on the pay for success deals.”

    Interactive map for “QDX Health ID - Covid-19 Passport”

    https://littlesis.org/maps/5008-qdx-health-id-covid-19-passport

    "Dress Rehearsal For The Big Event

    Many have already looked into Event 201, the corona virus table-top game Gates funded in partnership with the World Economic Forum and the Johns Hopkins Center For Health Security last October. Another funder was Open Philanthropy, started by Facebook Employee #3 Dustin Markovitz. I highly recommend checking out the videos, especially the highlight reel and the communication and finance sessions.”

    Interactive Map for “Event 201- Corona Virus October 2019”:

    https://littlesis.org/maps/4973-event-201-corona-virus-october-2019

    “Next up will be a deep dive into Michael Bloomberg and his ties to Johns Hopkins and the World Health Organization. He is the one who is setting up the “smart” city infrastructure steeped in human capital finance and high-tech policing. The Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security, which is based in the Bloomberg School of Public Health was the host of Event 201. See the arrow on the map below.”

    Interactive Map for “Bloomberg / Johns Hopkins / WHO / Public Health”

    https://littlesis.org/maps/4969-bloomberg-johns-hopkins-who-public-health

    Linda

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 3:01pm

    Angi

    Angi

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 10 2020

    Posts: 59

    5

    Strict Lock Downs

    Dear O - You asked for dialogue on this issue. Good that you can change your mind given new information. Speaking for myself, I am a big picture person. So when I don't agree with something or don't understand the rationale, etc. I have to gather as much information as I possibly can within reason in order to form an opinion. I am well versed in some areas of study (Master's Degree- social sciences) but in other areas I am totally lost and have to seek out 3-4 people I feel I can trust and believe out of twice that many I might originally consider. Our world is way too complicated with information so I constantly try and simplify once I have found good sources. Then I look for overlaps where those vetted sources might agree or disagree and why? I also look for parallels in history and love the adage: Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. And Mark Twain's observation: History doesn't repeat but it rhymes. Brilliant!! Anyway, Chris early on tried to explain the Balance principle regarding the pandemic. (I would say plandemic, but I digress.) The risk to the population is one factor, the risk to the economy is another factor, etc. etc. And his famous quote: It didn't have to be this way! No, it didn't so why is it this way? History has a few things to say to factor into your thinking. 1) Governments have never cared about their people. 2) Governments have always sought to control their populations and have succeeded in various degrees but always they consistently rule by fear. (Ask yourself honestly why you pay income tax?) 3) Governments consistently lie to their populations and never are accountable. The bigger the government gets the worse it is for the people. 4) There is no free lunch.

    I do believe the health scare has a component that is real, that we are calling a virus for lack of better understanding. But now we see it is not nearly as threatening to the society at large as we were originally led to believe. By all reasonable measures, the lock-downs, as they were dictated are not really in the best interest of the people. Life is risky, we are adults, we can determine for ourselves the level of the risk we are willing to take. Our rights and our liberties are being destroyed and trampled and our economy decimated. When called to account all the politicians will blame the collapse on C-19 and the people are being indebted forever and a day with endless money printing. These are crimes against humanity, because so few of us have learned the lessons of history. We have to expose the people who continue to perpetuate their NWO agenda and stand up once and for all. When the government fears the people it is liberty, when the people fear the government it is tyranny. Just my opinion for someone I suspect is much younger than me. It's your future I will fight and stand up for as well as my principles.

     

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 3:29pm

    sofistek

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 02 2008

    Posts: 762

    3

    Strict lockdowns

    Well, my take is that strict lockdowns must work as they deny the virus the paths it needs to spread. If they are having little effect then maybe they are not that strict. I'm not saying that's the best approach (though it may be if the virus is completely out of control) but I can't see how they cannot work.

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 3:35pm

    sofistek

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 02 2008

    Posts: 762

    5

    Rights

    we can determine or ourselves the level of the risk we are willing to take

    We could, but we need to take into account the risk to others when assessing the total risk. That's the problem with living in a society; you have to consider others in that society.

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 4:12pm

    Angi

    Angi

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 10 2020

    Posts: 59

    5

    Devils Advocate

    Your statement "If the govt. lock-downs aren't working they must not be that strict". I would say maybe they have worked, or maybe they have not, we won't know for sometime, but the socially mandated "cure" is rapidly becoming worse than the disease. And also, you cannot expect to find solutions with the same people who created the problem. if you read through Linda T's exhaustive post nearby. Additionally we have each and all, made enough of a sacrifice personally and collectively in the best interest of others in the society. This is clearly a socialist  meme which is being broadly circulated to further brainwash and social engineer people into guilt traps and personal paralysis, that is simply irrational.

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 4:22pm

    Barbara

    Barbara

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    Joined: Dec 15 2009

    Posts: 180

    8

    Fox News is citing the same info on HCQ as PP found weeks ago

    Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn sometimes.
    So a biased media finally finds facts to support their "leader".

    I can't find the clip, but Fox hit the HCQ/Zinc with/w/o antibiotics as working if given early on.

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 5:01pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 781

    2

    I'll play

    I get SC2 I walk up to you and cough right in your face which is my right to do.

    Does that work for you?

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 5:16pm

    miguel

    miguel

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    Joined: Mar 10 2020

    Posts: 15

    0

    Its one of many explanations

    I must admit, reading through all of these posts, I feel informed and misinformed at the same time. Lockstep is one of the 4 narratives described in the paper from 2010 by Rockefeller Foundation. Its like calling a conspiracy against a movie director who framed a terrorist attack after a terrorist attack occurs; "the director must have known all along"

     

    There are so many great nuggets here, and its extremely tiring to weed through and filter all of the information out there, but if we aren't careful, we can easily become the same misinterpreting misguided community that we criticize in the media.

     

    There are those that criticize the current administration and discredit or purposefully misinterpret facts simply for their having been supported by the administration. Let us now not become those that do the same to those that criticize; other wise we will soon find that the last remaining sources of good information we do have have fallen to the same ills.

     

    This is negative social mood at its finest...we really need to hold our wandering minds accountable, at least to some standard.

     

    No offense meant

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 5:27pm

    Angi

    Angi

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    Joined: Apr 10 2020

    Posts: 59

    3

    Birds of a Feather Might Get Birdflu

    We still can have distancing without a lockdown - grow up be an adult - respect others. This isn't kindergarten but your reply seems like it. If you show respect to others they will likely respond in kind unless you're living in a ghetto, then all bets are off anyway. Pick your neighbors and your neighborhood.

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 6:13pm

    Chris Martenson

    Chris Martenson

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Jun 07 2007

    Posts: 5365

    2

    Ivermectin

    It’s back to ivermectin now. I have researched the correct dose but am unclear if it is an ionophore and works with Zinc.

    Nope, not an ionophore.

    Ivermectin works by blocking cytoplasmic proteins from being imported into the nucleus via the alpha and beta 'importin' protein complex.  In this case, the theory goes, Covid has some proteins that get themselves imported into the nucleus where they muck up the cell's natural anti-viral defenses.

    While zinc doesn't have any particular role in that machinery, as far as I know, it never hurts to have adequate serum levels of zinc to bolster other pathways.

     

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 6:16pm

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2188

    1

    your scenario

    MM-

    I get SC2 I walk up to you and cough right in your face which is my right to do.

    Does that work for you?

    I'm missing some important details in your proposed scenario.  Are you saying that you know you have SC2, or that you have symptoms that match SC2 and you suspect you may be infected, and armed with this knowledge, you deliberately come up to me and cough in my face?

    I just want to be clear about what you are presenting before I respond.

     

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 6:31pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 781

    0

    Birds

    LOL now that is wildly optimistic. Be adults? Surely you jest? There are still so called adults running around saying this is the flu.There are still so called adults absolutely refusing to wear masks and going so far as to threaten and assault shopkeepers who require customers to do so.

    But go ahead and project if it makes you feel better.

    BTW the title of the video is " Second waves of infections are pretty much guaranteed"

    Just why do you think that is?

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 6:40pm

    AndreaDoria

    AndreaDoria

    Status: Member

    Joined: May 20 2020

    Posts: 1

    4

    HCQ Studies Underway and Results

    Here is important info about HCQ & Zinc:

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.02.20080036v1

    Conclusion: This study provides the first in vivo evidence that zinc sulfate in combination with hydroxychloroquine may play a role in therapeutic management for COVID-19.

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 6:40pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 781

    0

    You choose

    First of all i was responding to someone else with a very specific question.

    Second choose whatever scenario works for you. But do keep in mind I have a CCP

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 6:45pm

    Angi

    Angi

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 10 2020

    Posts: 59

    4

    State of Pennsylvania - Resistance!

    Very interesting article on Zero Hedge about the citizens of the state of Pennsylvania. If you are interested you can find the full article there posted this evening (Tues.)

    Here's a clip: The situation in Pennsylvania is continuing to evolve, but it seems clear that Governor Wolf’s authority is collapsing by the day. The whole affair serves as an important reminder of the lesson at the heart of Etienne de la Boetie’s short book The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude: all political authority in rulers is, in the end, derived from the ruled. When such power is withdrawn, political authority is revealed to be impotent.

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 6:53pm

    Tycer

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Apr 26 2009

    Posts: 258

    1

    Chris wrote:” Nope, not an ionophore”

    How cool is that. My mind went to the opposite of helminth therapy. Remove the focus of the immune system and let it attack something else.

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 7:06pm

    Angi

    Angi

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 10 2020

    Posts: 59

    5

    But It's For Your Own Good

    This is such a great quote IMO -

    Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be “cured” against one’s will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.

    – C.S. Lewis

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 7:23pm

    dryam2000

    dryam2000

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Sep 06 2009

    Posts: 417

    3

    Civil discourse

    Kenneth J. Gergen describes civil discourse as the "language of dispassionate objectivity", and suggests that it requires respect of the other participants, such as the reader. It neither diminishes the other's moral worth, nor questions their good judgment; it avoids hostility, direct antagonism, or excessive persuasion; it requires modesty and an appreciation for the other participant's experiences.

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 9:48pm

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2188

    1

    your scenario

    MM-

    First of all i was responding to someone else with a very specific question.

    Second choose whatever scenario works for you. But do keep in mind I have a CCP

    1) You know this IS a public forum, right?

    2) It was your scenario, not mine.  It isn't up to me to choose which case it is.  After all, it's not ME coughing in your face.  It is you coughing in mine.  This is entirely your invention.  I'm just exploring what you knew at the time you hypothetically coughed in my face.  While having SC2.  The question is, really, did you know you were infected while coughing.  And now we add to that scenario, you potentially carrying a firearm.

    Once you provide me the details of what you knew when you coughed, while potentially armed, I'll tell you if it works for me.

    I'll also understand if you prefer not to continue down this path any further because anyone with an above-room-temp IQ and 5 minutes playing with "google" will know where it leads.

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 10:14pm

    zza

    zza

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 18 2020

    Posts: 7

    0

    Prediction: At least 44% of world population to perish from Cov-Sars-2

    COVID-19 Deniers Will Increase Pandemic Danger for Everyone

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 11:02pm

    Krollchem

    Krollchem

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jul 10 2012

    Posts: 24

    7

    problems with this HCQ treatment

     

    When using HCQ along with zinc for inhibition of the COVID-19 virus be sure to include magnesium and only incorporate Azithromycin or other antibiotics if a lung infection is an issue. Heart problems cited in many HCQ studies are generally consistent with a magnesium deficiency made worse by HCQ

     

    Mayo Clinic expert in QTC prolongation Michael Ackerman MD, discusses his March 25, 2020 study

    and concludes HCQ completely safe for vast majority (90%) of the population with risk mitigable by potassium and magnesium for the rest).

     

    Magnesium as an anti-arrhythmic therapy principle in supraventricular and ventricular cardiac arrhythmias].

    [Article in German]

    Zehender M1.

    Author information

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9064958

     

    Azithromycin contributes to the heart failures along with a magnesium deficiency

    https://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/heart-failure/news/20120516/z-pak-heart-attack

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  • Tue, May 19, 2020 - 11:02pm

    Grover

    Grover

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Feb 15 2011

    Posts: 782

    10

    Change The Focus

    Mohammed Mast Wrote:

    I get SC2 I walk up to you and cough right in your face which is my right to do.

    Does that work for you?

    Mohammed,

    You were responding to Angi who was responding to sofistek who was responding to ...

    I'm wondering what your intent was. It's almost as if you say there are only 2 options - either lock everyone down ... or they'll purposefully cough in your face. I'm sorry if I've mischaracterized your position. I don't want to construct a strawman argument here. DaveF asked for a little clarification and received none. It's hard to go forward without making some assumptions.

    Is there anything this complicated in life that can be reduced to a binary switch? I don't recall ever seeing such a situation. The Covid-19 situation certainly doesn't fit a simple binary solution either. As Chris keeps pointing out, it is a balancing act between 1) keeping people uninfected, 2) keeping the economy functioning, and 3) keeping the hospitals from getting overwhelmed.

    Lockdowns keep people from interacting. Without physical interactions, the virus can't find new victims. Without new infections, hospitals won't get overwhelmed. That strategy keeps 2 of the 3 legs of the triangle strong. The problem is that the economy fails miserably without people working to get goods and services out there. Without a proper balance between the 3 legs of this triangle, the system essentially falls over. That is abject failure!

    For me, the balance can be kept with reasonable personal safeguards along with good medical practices that will keep me (and society) safe and well. Unfortunately, the medical industrial complex (MIC) has done all it can to keep cheap and effective solutions away from the public. For instance, the treatment of (HCQ + Azithromycin + zinc) has been undermined by all the forces connected with MIC. They are purposefully limiting your (and your doctor's) choices. Why don't you rail against these forces?

    Grover

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  • Wed, May 20, 2020 - 12:50am

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2188

    2

    what he said

    Thanks Grover.  That's...uh...what I meant to say.  🙂

    But you said it so much better!

     

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  • Wed, May 20, 2020 - 1:28am

    gyrogearloose

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Sep 08 2008

    Posts: 357

    3

    Lock-down down under....NZ. 2 cases in last 9 days

    Looking pretty good here at the moment

    New cases per day  once we hit single digits

    99537558032235200211223000101000

    and from memory it seemed that about half the cases were returning citizens in govt controlled quarantine, set up in hotels that  are vacant due to lack of tourists.....

    The last case was the child of a healthcare worker.

    The one before that was a child that part of the big clusters that had symptoms 3 weeks ago and tested a weak positive in a mass testing of people around the cluster ago

    35 active cases.

    Bars still not open, the South Korea nigh club incident keeping people cautious.

    Now we just have to wait a few years......

    Mind you a different class of tourism could start. fly in to 2 weeks in a hotel with full room service, then free to roam with no worries of Wuhan flu !!!!

    Kiwis rock at lock-down!

    Regards Hamish

     

     

     

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  • Wed, May 20, 2020 - 4:59am

    David McKenney

    David McKenney

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 25 2020

    Posts: 84

    7

    David McKenney said:

    Here's my sign:

    STOP THE KILLING

    LET US USE HCQ

    The "coctail" could have ended this farce months ago. Not hard to figure that something else "BIG" is going on.

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  • Wed, May 20, 2020 - 5:08am

    David McKenney

    David McKenney

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 25 2020

    Posts: 84

    2

    About the PCR test

    Is the PCR test any good at all? From the one who invented it.

    https://robinwestenra.blogspot.com/2020/05/what-is-pcr-test-they-use-for-covid19.html

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  • Wed, May 20, 2020 - 6:05am

    David McKenney

    David McKenney

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 25 2020

    Posts: 84

    0

    Are you not entertained?

    Regarding the man in the pink sweater. What's it all about?

    https://libertyblitzkrieg.com/2020/05/19/its-time-to-step-into-the-arena/

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  • Wed, May 20, 2020 - 7:57am

    Angi

    Angi

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 10 2020

    Posts: 59

    2

    About The PCR Test - Reply

    David - Thank You so much for posting that article. It quite a read but certainly gives some context for where we are with "virus testing" and confirms my suspicions that I would not be tested or let anyone I know or care about be tested. It also supports what Andrew Kaufman, the psychiatrist who also studied at MIT has been saying. Truth is hard to come by, but this article definitely has the ring of truth. The inserted video was also excellent. I lived through the AIDS epidemic on the front lines of counseling, and had many friends and others I knew of who died. It was tragically sad for friends and families alike. That was 30 years ago. This article is so well done, it helped make a few strong connections to then and now. History rhyming, as they say! All of our lives are littered with lies. The truth will set us free! There is hope. Best regards, Angi

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  • Wed, May 20, 2020 - 8:58am

    JWhite

    JWhite

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 12 2016

    Posts: 119

    2

    Question for Adam & Chris

    If you don't mind me asking, is there a reason why your daily videos are not uploaded to your website at the same time as YouTube?  In the video list I'm looking at, the video 'More Evidence of Long Term Lung Damage' from 14 May, as well as the most recent 2 videos 'The Evils of Money Printing' and 'Politicized Medicine' are not on your website.  Not a big problem of course, but I'm not happy with YouTube at the moment so would prefer to have the option to watch the videos on your site....

    Edit:  I see ''The Evils of Money Printing' was subsequently posted on the website under a different name, but the other 2 videos are not in the list I can see as of when I posted the question.  Thanks!

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  • Wed, May 20, 2020 - 10:05am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 781

    0

    Grover and Focus

    WOW.

    That was certainly a loaded post. Where to begin?

    Let's start here, this is Angi's comment "We still can have distancing without a lockdown - grow up be an adult - respect others. " I am not sure if that is advice or a projection.

    Now watch the following video then anyone here is free to compare it and Angi's statement.

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/i-woke-up-in-a-free-country-costco-shopper-gets-bounced-from-store-after-refusing-to-wear-a-mask-2020-05-19

    Or this?

    https://abcnews.go.com/US/incomprehensible-confrontations-masks-erupt-amid-covid-19-crisis/story?id=70494577

    The average IQ of an Amerikaan is 98. Now you and others can argue all day long about the accuracy or biases of IQ tests but as a general guide it is clear that the average Amerikaan is not too bright. Amerikaan high schools in any given year GRADUATE 25% of its students who are functionally illiterate. I have no idea but I will assume that the level of education and IQ here on PP is far above average. An indication of that is the level of discourse and the subjects discussed. I think a lot of assumptions are made out of projection.

    I have clearly a not too high regard for the Amerikaan public. The above video and article are the tip of the iceberg of evidence to support my stance. I think as I stated that expecting the public in general to behave as adults and respect the rights of others is wildly optimistic.

    Now as for your lecture on the balance as stated by Chris I am fully aware. I have been aware of SC2 since I was in Thailand Jan 13th when the first case hit there. I was in the airport in Bangkok where about 70% of the people were wearing masks. Feb 15th I was in the Bombay airport where my wife and I were the only ones wearing masks. I think I have a pretty good grasp of the situation.

    as for my response to Dave, I offered him the opportunity to choose whatever scenario he wished. He could then tailor his response to suit his own particular ideology and personality. I really don't care which scenario he chooses it has nothing to do with the ability of the public to behave as adults and respect the rights of others.

    as for you somewhat impertinent question about why I don't rail against the treatment HCQ is receiving I suggest you are not paying attention to any of my posts. So why  don't you go back and look at some of them. Then get back with me.

    I happen to be in a high risk category as is my wife. As Chris said " you are on your own." I have known that simple fact for well over 50 years. That is my normalcy bias. We have not worked in 2 months. Are we suffering? Yes. Does that give us the right to piss on other people? No. This country is full of knuckle dragging neanderthals who have some kind of emotional attachment to some mythic idea of a free country with a constitution that protects them and gives them the right to do whatever the fuck they want. I have posted this just a couple of days ago but i guess you missed it. Dubya is reputed to have said " Don't throw the god damned constitution in my face it's just a damn piece of paper." This is the end of empire. What did you think it would look like?

    Now you can all jump on let's rodeo

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  • Wed, May 20, 2020 - 10:28am

    stevedaly

    stevedaly

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    2

    The Mayo Clinic Report

    This video was recorded within a week of the FDA's emergency approval of  hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) for in hospital treatment of COVID-19, which was promulgated on or around April 27th.  The Mayo Clinic published an evaluation of their analysis of the cardiac risk from the administration of HCQ and a proposal for identifying patients who could be at risk for adverse cardiac events:

    https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(20)30313-X/fulltext

    In the video at 9:45 Dr. Ackerman, one of the coauthors, cites the FDA's Adverse Events Reporting System (AERS).  He says the AERS has reports "several hundred drug induced sudden cardiac deaths attributed to both HCQ and Azithromycin."  However, the  Mayo Clinic report qualifies the AERS reporting they accessed with the following statement, 'Adverse event reporting from post marketing surveillance does not account for prescription volume and is often subjected to substantial bias from confounding variables, quality of reported data, duplication, and underreporting of events." The AERS system reported numbers may be hard to find on the FDA website.

    The Mayo Clinic report also identifies patients who have"unmodifiable" risk factors, including type 1 and 2 diabetes and those above age 65.

    So does this mean if you have diabetes or are above 65 years in age (the groups that need HCQ the most) you should not receive it unless you are under continuing medical observation with the ability to treat cardiac arrest?

    Dr. Ackerman also does not address the 70 plus years of history of the safe use of HCQ and chloroquines in the treatment or protection from malaria of millions of people around the world without reported adverse cardiac consequences.

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  • Wed, May 20, 2020 - 10:50am

    JWhite

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    Question for Grover re: Covid Cocktail

    Grover – I love your ‘Covid Cocktail’ idea, and pairing it with pumpkin seeds. I’ve also been focusing on natural sources of antivirals, especially since the HCQ isn’t readily available so far, for those who may wish to use it / prescribe it. But are you finding that a single ‘Covid Cocktail’ per day is sufficient?

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  • Wed, May 20, 2020 - 11:50am

    richcabot

    richcabot

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    8

    Who decides?

    Why should you, or anyone, get to decide the risk/benefit ratio for everyone else.  Why should hair stylists have to starve?  No-one forces you to go get your hair cut.  If when you do, the stylist and you both wear masks how is that a big risk?  It's worth noting that all the government and news media we see on TV seem to be getting their hair done on a regular basis.

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  • Wed, May 20, 2020 - 12:17pm

    Grover

    Grover

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    Posts: 782

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    Refocus

    Mohammed,

    Don't get your panties all tied up in a wad. It works better when we can look at things calmly and logically. We know that we now have this "honey badger" virus that keeps figuring out ways to get around our defenses. With viruses like HIV, the virus can only spread via direct contact with body fluids. Keeping away from infected body fluids is all that is needed to keep the spread in check. Yet, HIV is still running rampant. Apparently, it's too much fun to come in direct contact with body fluids for that strategy to work.

    Near the other end of extreme transmissivity is SC2. It can be transmitted by direct contact with body fluids, sneeze droplets, and aerosols. It may also pass through the feces and become airborne when sewage movement is turbulent enough. It may even be able to hitch a ride on methane bubbles which result from decomposing sewage in the sewer.

    Masks, gloves, goggles, and full PPE suits can work to keep the virus out of the body, but none of these measures are completely foolproof. Even social distancing of the arbitrary 6 foot distance only works to avoid large droplets. Lockdowns appear to work, but how long can we remain in lockdown? Unless we can somehow eradicate this virus, that strategy's side effect - doomed economy - is worse than the disease itself. (By "worse," I mean that more people will die from a failed economy than from this disease.) Frankly, I doubt we'll ever be rid of this virus. It is simply too good at getting around our defenses. Unless you are willing to live in full PPE forever, you'll likely come in contact with the virus.

    Okay, let's go on the offensive. That's where giving our bodies a good chance to fight the infection comes into play. There have been parts of observational studies that show higher levels of some vitamins and minerals decrease the severity of the disease. That's a start! Wouldn't it be great if we could design a study to determine what combinations and levels of vitamins/minerals are effective against this virus? I'd also like to see my government use my tax money to fund a study using colloidal/ionic silver to defeat the virus. If the virus can't replicate and cause disease, we can go on about enjoying our lives.

    Unfortunately, big Pharma will do everything in its power to keep this information from seeing the light of day. Why is Remdesivir even being considered as a treatment? Because it earns Gilead big bucks every time it is used. Why are they using all kinds of tricks to make HCQ look bad? Because it is off patent and unprofitable.

    Big Pharma has their tentacles reaching everywhere there is money/power. If you watch main stream news programs, you'll notice how many new drugs they are advertising. Do you think the news people will ever say anything bad about big Pharma? Why would they shoot the goose that lays golden eggs? What about congressoids? How much campaign money do they receive from big Pharma lobbyists? That money comes with long stinky strings attached. Do you think that will ever change?

    I don't know if the average Amerikaan has an IQ of 98. Whatever it is, half of the people are below average. Even smart people can't help but to question their beliefs when confronted with the same repeated message. That's how propaganda and advertising works. Those less able to detect the lies are more prone to swallow it and act on their newfound "truth."

    The bottom line is that you are on your own. If you think it is important to self isolate, then do so. Why do I have to do so? Let's learn from each other what strategies will work best to individually keep ourselves healthy.

    Finally, there are several dozen posters on this site who I greedily read every word they write. I include you in that group. I was the first one to give you a thumbs up on post#105 mostly because of your Dubya comment. Your post#112 (I'll play) really seemed out of character. It disturbed me. That's why I commented as I did.

    Grover

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  • Wed, May 20, 2020 - 12:37pm

    Grover

    Grover

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    4

    Size Matters

    JWhite wrote:

    Grover – I love your ‘Covid Cocktail’ idea, and pairing it with pumpkin seeds. I’ve also been focusing on natural sources of antivirals, especially since the HCQ isn’t readily available so far, for those who may wish to use it / prescribe it. But are you finding that a single ‘Covid Cocktail’ per day is sufficient?

    JWhite,

    I really don't know the answer. Sorry. The US legal limit for quinine in tonic water is 83 PPM. It depends how much tonic water you add to your gin. My theory is that it takes less work for the body to try to remove a small number of viruses than it does when zillions are involved. As long as the body has the tools and the ability to use the tools, it will do the best it can. For me - so far, so good.

    Others have written about quercetin and artemesin being as good or better zinc ionophores. Quercetin is produced by many different plants and artemesin is from the Artemesia annua plant (a close relative of French tarragon.) I asked my favorite greenhouse if they had any Artemesia annua? The answer was "huh"???

    As far as if one Covid cocktail per day is enough ...

    Just one more beer – Bits and Pieces

    Grover

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  • Wed, May 20, 2020 - 12:45pm

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1047

    1

    Americans are not bright - that’s hogwash

    Our schools have been targeted and hollowed out. If you don’t think we are smart enough then look to government policies and corporate interests. And watch the attached and see how black schools are intentionally run to provide inadequate education.  America does not educate the poor like it educates the wealthy and it certainly does NOT educated them together

    Your lack of awareness is showing.

    AKGrannyWGrit

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  • Wed, May 20, 2020 - 12:59pm

    Koan

    Koan

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    2

    Koan said:

    Great treatment plan Grover! I also do the CS and Zinc along with the typical antioxidants. I've got some tonic water at home but also just found that one can get quinine tincture (made direct from cinchona bark) from Amazon- a company out of FL is selling it. 670mg per serving. I'm just using a couple drops a day at the moment but will ramp up if needed. Thanks for sharing!

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  • Wed, May 20, 2020 - 1:00pm

    TWalker5

    TWalker5

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    1

    TWalker5 said:

    Mohammed, you threaten to cough SC2 into someone’s face then, if retaliated against, pull a firearm?

    That speaks volumes about you character.

    T.

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  • Wed, May 20, 2020 - 1:37pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Thanks Grover

    Thanks for your cogent response. Unfortunately you have missed my central point. Please reread Angi's comment. It is expecting Amerikaans (in general) to behave like adults. Really? Is that your expectation? Do I really expect that when i have to go to the grocery store or lumberyard that some mouth breathing, knuckle dragging constitution loving asshole is going to maintain social distance? No i don't. Do i appreciate shopkeepers who require masks and social distancing and limiting the number of people in the store. Damn right.

    As for the constitution most of these uh citizens have  not read anything other than the 2nd amendment (if they can read at all) until a few weeks ago when somebody told them they didn't have to wear a mask and gather in large groups. As Chris pointed out in a number of videos most of the protesters were not wearing masks.. Well that damn constitution also has a little section called "the general welfare clause" . This clause gives congress the right to spend money for the general welfare. The general welfare clause actually gives states the right to determine what that general welfare is. In other words the federal government cannot make national speed limits but it can and did tell states that if they did not adopt the 55 mph limit they would not get federal funds. States can enact laws to protect the general welfare of their citizens. Of course in the case of SC2 the Supreme court might just be the final arbiter. Of course martial law could be declared making the entire exercise moot.

    So now that we have gone well off the reservation and get back to my original question. Do I have a constitutional right to cough in someone's face? Also can we expect average Amerikaans to behave like adults? The guys who wrote the constitution didn't think so which is why they designed a representative form of government rather than a direct democracy. They knew from experience that the masses could not govern themselves.

    https://lawliberty.org/forum/can-the-american-people-be-trusted-to-govern-themselves/

    So my panties are not in a wad. I asked a simple question. I have yet to get an answer from the person I asked it of. However you and dave have joined in. That's fine. But neither you nor dave answered the question. I think I have provided more than enough information on my position to satisfy the curious. But lest you think i still have my panties in a wad and lack a sense of humor i will leave you with one of my political mentors.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLODGhEyLvk&t=68s

     

     

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  • Wed, May 20, 2020 - 1:47pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    0

    T walker

    I suggest you reread my comment with comprehension. I did not threaten anyone. i asked a simple question to illustrate a point. Your comment about my character illustrates my point about the IQ of the average Amarikaan. Thanks for your interest in my character

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  • Wed, May 20, 2020 - 2:23pm

    JWhite

    JWhite

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    1

    Size Matters

    Thank you Grover!  We tend to use glasses that look something like the ones in your photo, so we're probably covered  🙂

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  • Wed, May 20, 2020 - 2:59pm

    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

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    Joined: Jun 04 2012

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    5

    Meanwhile, in Canada... some deep concerns

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/second-wave-covid-19-sick-health-care-system-1.5577552

    The president of the Canadian Medical Association issues an alert to the Canadian Senate, including:

    ..."We cannot consider ourselves civilized if we continue this way," Buchman said.

    Buchman said physicians are experiencing a tremendous amount of "anxiety" because, three months into the pandemic, they still don't have a consistent, reliable, adequate supply of protective equipment for those working on the front lines of this crisis.

    "We'd never permit a firefighter to go into a burning building without adequate protection. We can't expect our front line health care workers to put themselves in harm's way," he said.

    He said some doctors and nurses are constantly on edge and warns that, without immediate intervention, we can expect "big problems" among health care providers during subsequent waves of the pandemic, such as widespread depression and substance abuse.

    "This is causing significant moral distress," he said.

    Buchman's concerns were echoed by Dr. Claire Betker, the president of Canadian Nurses Association, and Dr. Cornelia Wieman, the president of Indigenous Physicians Association of Canada.

    Betker told the Senate committee that testing levels are especially worrying and Canada is falling behind other nations in the number of tests pumped through labs on any given day.

    "We're concerned that the virus is still very much alive, still spreading and not well understood," she said. "Given the lessons of history, we urge an evidence-informed and cautious re-opening."

    There are definitely a lot of mixed emotions in people I talk to as businesses tentatively move forward with phased re-openings. It is going to be interesting to see how this unfolds, and how people will react psychologically to new norms.

    Jan

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  • Wed, May 20, 2020 - 3:43pm

    sofistek

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 02 2008

    Posts: 762

    1

    NZ

    Gosh, Hamish, I hope that overseas tourism doesn't start up again too early. A quarantine of 2 weeks isn't enough to ensure the person doesn't have Covid-19. However, if they have two negative tests at the end of that period, that would probably be a good indication.

    I'm getting increasingly confident that there are no undetected cases out there. Another week of zero unimported cases would seal it for me.

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  • Wed, May 20, 2020 - 3:48pm

    wildtravel

    wildtravel

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    1

    “I didn’t threaten anyone”

    ”I didn’t threaten anyone”

    Do tell, Mohammed Mast?

    I’ve alleged to Dr Martenson you threatened me, at # 5

    FORUM GUIDELINES AND RULES

    Since you failed to pick up the first opportunity I provided to you to refute my allegation, please consider this a second invitation to rebut my evidence, which submittedly proves beyond reasonable doubt that this second claim you “didn’t threaten anyone is as untrue as the first.

    Here’s your big chance to produce your Sheriff’s badge and warrant card from the PP community to give “friendly advice” on their behalf?

    Here’s your big chance to make your case why your conclusion that you don’t threaten people and are only giving friendly advice is not a false conclusion which was arrived at by a logical fallacy which renders that conclusion just plain wrong by definition.

    Here’s your big chance to perhaps “man up”, own up, ‘fess up, and remorse up in acceptance that according to house rules your behaviour here is submittedly well out of order?  Or not?

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  • Wed, May 20, 2020 - 4:44pm

    wildtravel

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    The Precautionary Principle

    Sofistek, may I suggest it might be a bit early to conclude NZ has corralled the little varmint?

    Look at Australia’s numbers after we flattened the curve here.  Three weeks later, with no doubt first class track and trace, and we’re still throwing up a handful of cases every day.  In particular, please be aware of a recent case here of possible re-activation of Covid 19. (https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/coronavirus-australia-sydney-man-tests-positive-after-being-cleared-in-possible-reactivation-case-c-997155.amp)

    Given that it appears we are most likely dealing with a genetically engineered monster designed and constructed to evade the body’s immune system gone rogue, IMO, I’m sticking with the Precautionary Principle of Ecologically Sustainable Development:

    ”The precautionary principle is a broad epistemological, philosophical and legal approach to innovations with potential for causing harm when extensive scientific knowledge on the matter is lacking. It emphasizes caution, pausing and review before leaping into new innovations that may prove disastrous.” Wikipedia

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  • Wed, May 20, 2020 - 5:01pm

    Grover

    Grover

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    5

    Nanny State Makes Us Dumber

    Mohammed Mast wrote:

    Thanks for your cogent response. Unfortunately you have missed my central point. Please reread Angi's comment. It is expecting Amerikaans (in general) to behave like adults. Really? Is that your expectation? Do I really expect that when i have to go to the grocery store or lumberyard that some mouth breathing, knuckle dragging constitution loving asshole is going to maintain social distance? No i don't. Do i appreciate shopkeepers who require masks and social distancing and limiting the number of people in the store. Damn right.

    <snip>

    Mohammed,

    You are correct that I didn't answer your question. I danced around it. If we assume everyone to be infected and do our own due diligence, then it really doesn't matter how many individual knuckles get drug or how many teef remain in the mouth they are breathing through.

    If you appreciate shopkeepers who require patrons to wear masks, practice social distancing, and limit the number of people in the store, then make sure you tell them so. Also, avoid the stores that don't meet your standards as much as possible. Shopkeepers love to make paying customers happy. I'm not so sure that they are as keen on government mandates that essentially aim toward the same goal.

    The central point of your question (as far as I can infer) is whether or not the government has the right to force us to be polite amongst each other and bully shopkeepers into doing it their "right" way. That's a question for litigators and/or elections. I prefer to have minimal involvement by the government. The less they do, the less disappointed I generally am.

    You keep harping about the low IQ Amerikaans. Have you looked at history to find out when IQs started dropping in earnest? It used to be that Americans were the innovators and inventors of the world. Something happened to change Americans into Amerikaans. Is it any coincidence that government changed more into a nanny along the way? Before social security, people were responsible for their own old age issues. Before Medicare, people were responsible for their own old age health. Those are only 2 issues that had to be dealt with. What a relief it is to know that the problems will be automatically resolved. Not having to make tough decisions with limited funds may be more comfortable, but it doesn't make us smarter. I'd argue that it makes us dumber.

    Meanwhile, in the old days, immigrants had to prove they wouldn't be a burden on society. Now, illegal aliens waltz in and are eligible to collect all sorts benefits. Who pays for it? Don't worry - we'll just let the government borrow the money. And government officials are always happy to oblige the sheeple's wants. In the process, they get more power and more prestige to influence more problems. When does it end?

    That's why I say that we're on our own. The government has extended itself so far and accumulated so much debt that it can never fully recover. Eventually, the lights will get turned out and it will fail. I wish it weren't this way. I keep voting for less intrusive and smaller government, but I'm overwhelmed by those who can't connect the dots. It is really discouraging!

    Grover

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  • Wed, May 20, 2020 - 5:26pm

    sofistek

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 02 2008

    Posts: 762

    1

    Too early?

    Yes, wildtravel, I also think it's too early. That's why I wrote that 14 days of zero cases would probably convince me that it's not roaming around the community by then. We've had 3 days of zero so far (and 9 days of zero or 1 case, ignoring old reclassified cases) so another 10 or 11 days of zero cases would give me enough evidence to convince me, until more evidence came to light. I'm hoping that further relaxation of our Alert Level 2 rules will not put that run at risk but it's a tricky virus, so who knows? However, testing numbers are not as high as they were, so that may be a pointer to people becoming a bit more relaxed about the situation, which isn't a good thing. There probably isn't enough random testing going on but fingers are crossed.

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  • Wed, May 20, 2020 - 6:31pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 781

    2

    Nanny State

    Well this is certainly a discussion that could go on for a long time and not change one damn thing.

    When did Amerikaans get dumb? I think there has always been a large % of dumb Amerikaans. That is why as I said we don't have a direct democracy and never did. Of course you have to start with the constitution. It created a gigantic central authority which many of the revolutionaries found repulsive including Thomas Paine and Patrick Henry. Under the Articles of Confederation it was a loose confederation of sovereign states. Any government is by definition oppressive. Any government no matter its lofty ideals will devolve over time. It is baked into the cake.

    Thanks to Hamilton the Bank of England actually won the war. As everyone here knows the entire history of Amerika can be written as the battle against the banksters. They eventually won in 1913. From that time on the sovereign nation formerly known as USA ended. Interestingly enough around that time a guy named Edward Bernays came along and perfected Propaganda. Wilson got elected on the platform of keeping us out of the War ends up getting us in a war that has nothing whatsoever to do with Amerika. From then on Amerika started the rise to empire. People like Rockefeller the banksters and other captains of industry formed political coalitions. Money and power consolidated at the top.

    Public education became nothing more than indoctrination. Critical thinking was not rewarded but submission was. By 1945 Amerika was a full blown empire. See Smedley Butler. Roosevelt created the Amerikaan nanny state. If he hadn't there would have been a revolution. The fruits of empire are extremely seductive. They enabled otherwise decent people to ignore the real cost to our colonial subjects. Governments were overthrown leaders assassinated and entire countries brought to heel.

    The juggernaut of empire has been running unabated. The real history has never been taught in schools. See Howard Zinn's "Peoples History." So here we are today with a dumbed down flouridated populace whose economy has systematically hollowed out for decades as Amerikaan companies have moved jobs offshore in one of the greatest migrations ever seen. "Spend less live better" how's that working out now?

    There are three stages of empire ; the rise, the golden age, and the fall. where do you think we are now. As Jim Rogers said in the 1800's the smart money went to England. (it was already there) In the 1900's the smart money went to New York. In the 2000's the smart money went to ta da Asia (China) . He sold his NYC apartment moved to Singapore and got his daughter  Mandarin tutor. Just where do you think all those trillions the fed is typing up is going? Amerikaans have been fed a steady diet of bullshit and they have lapped it up. Now the Black Swan has landed on the pond and it is a shock to the system. I asked you before "what just exactly did you think the end of empire would look like?" If you can't tell who the sucker is at the table then it is you. 95% of media is owned by 6 corporations.

    The time to wake up is now. The problem is people think by waking up you are going to change the system. Waking up means realizing you are on your own.Pure and simple. No one in power gives a shit about you me or anyone else but themselves. Your vote is a stupid waste of energy. If voting changed anything it would be illegal. So now we have a bunch of neanderthals running around wrapping themselves in a stupid piece of paper so that they can be as selfish as their owners. The power of myth.

    I have spent 52 years preparing for this. I knew it was coming. I knew the government was anything but my friend. Look around and see how many people are so thankful to get $1200 while hedge funds are getting billions. That's the secret Grover. You give the proles just enough to prevent a revolution.

    So Angi says something about being adults and being responsible ..........cough cough cough.

    Have a blessed day and find a good deck chair this shit is going down. Oh and learn Mandarin

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  • Wed, May 20, 2020 - 7:39pm

    wildtravel

    wildtravel

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    Posts: 42

    0

    Strike 2

    “I’ll play”

    I get SC2 I walk up to you and cough right in your face which is my right to do.  Does that work for you?”

    Major Premise: I get SC2 I walk up to you and cough right in your face

    Minor Premise: which is my right to do,

    Conclusion: Does that work for you?

    You bet you are a player Mr Mast, as your favourite game, the false dilemma logical fallacy , once again proves.  So, as we Australians say, “Come in spinner”.

    Firstly, framing the conclusion you wished to draw as a rhetorical question directed towards Angi, proves your real agenda, to threaten her. A syllogism draws a conclusion, not another very leading rhetorical question, in which the logical fallacy itself is the point. IMO, Mr Mast is not the least bit interested in knowing if Angi agrees or disagrees with his false conclusion, only in scaring her.  I’m pleased she did not rise to your bait, and dignify this none too subtle stunt by responding.  I’d love to hear she’s OK after this particularly low act.

    Your major premise submits that you have hypothetically become a sociopath, and knowingly and with malice of forethought coughed in her face. That’s scary. Not so much because you chose such a major premise that being faced with such a dilemma (however unlikely that scenario might be) would scare the crap out of anybody, but because you identify so strongly with this hypothetical sociopath you actually expect people to accept the proposition that you (n.b. not somebody else, YOU) are such a sociopath, as the founding evidence from which you wish to argue (a priori) to draw your (false) conclusion. You have a point there, and I’m certainly becoming increasingly scared of you.

    Your Minor Premise is even scarier, that Angi might actually believe that you might have a “right” to do this, when such behaviour would at best be criminally negligent, and at worst attempted murder. I’m surprised nobody swore a complaint against you to the police, using your own words to put you in jail. Maybe somebody will.

    So, to answer your rhetorical question now, Mr Mohammed Mast, it certainly “works” for me, and pleases me greatly that you have inadvertently loaded the gun again with a second shell, which you may yet fire off to blow your own foot clean off.

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  • Wed, May 20, 2020 - 7:54pm

    wildtravel

    wildtravel

    Status: Member

    Joined: May 29 2013

    Posts: 42

    0

    A Personal Call

    I take your point, Sofistek, that you have made a personal call to draw a line in the sand at 2 weeks.  I hope you’re right.  All power to you.

    It seems to me that every person in the PP community holds one thing in common:

    “We’re all on our own here”

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  • Thu, May 21, 2020 - 11:46am

    Grover

    Grover

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Feb 15 2011

    Posts: 782

    1

    What is to be done?

    Mohammed,

    I liked your "CliffsNotes" version of American History. I really can't argue with the snippets you pulled out. If I were to add a few more snippets, it would only reinforce the meme you were painting. Basically, sheepherders don't want smart and independent sheep. Dumb and compliant sheep are much easier (and profitable) to herd.

    I also agree that this is a deep rabbit hole that won't lead to any changes. So, I'll drop it. I am still curious about what it is that you'd like to see being done in this country about Covid-19? Should strict laws be enacted? What would be covered? What penalties should be imposed? Other than complete eradication of SC2, what conditions would cause these measures to be lifted? Finally, once the overlords have tasted this additional power, do you think they'll relinquish it willingly?

    Grover

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  • Fri, May 22, 2020 - 2:37am

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2188

    9

    rights and responsibilities

    MM-

    In my private life, I wear PPE in environments I consider dangerous.  I do not wear PPE in environments that I do not consider to be dangerous.  I do my best to take personal responsibility.  So if you coughed in my face, and it was a dangerous environment (say, a subway), I'd have one of my 5 N95 mask on from my emergency kit, and I'd suffer no ill effects from your cough.  In a medium-risk environment, I'd have my surgical mask on.  Most likely, I'd suffer no ill effects.

    If it was not a dangerous environment, such as outdoors in the heat & humidity, then I would also - most likely - suffer no ill effects, due to the fact that the droplets don't pass in those conditions.

    Regardless, if you got close enough to deliberately cough in my face once - that would only happen once.  I'm pretty good at keeping people at a distance once they show they are intent on assaulting me.

    Ultimately though, life has risk.  There is only so much I can do to protect myself.  All I can do is my best.

    Assuming I survived your coughing assault without you pulling out a gun and trying to shoot me, and I realized you were infected (perhaps you shouted this right before your coughing assault), I'd go off and get a prescription for HCQ PEP (or one of the other ionophores) and a big bottle of zinc and - probably - be none the worse for the experience.

    If I did get symptoms, I'd self-quarantine, meditate a lot, get a test, and do my level best to remain in a positive mental state.  I'd put my recovery in my own hands; I'd spend as little time blaming you as possible, since it absolutely wouldn't help me recover at all - it would only deplete my immune system.

    I do my best to exercise my own personal responsibility for my own health and welfare.  I don't rely on someone else to do it for me, since I assume the rest of the world isn't intensely focused on preserving my well being.  That's why I train, I exercise, I maintain a reasonable BMI, I read up on treatments, and I use PPE in the various environments to mitigate my own risk.

    I can't control the rest of the world.  All I can control is myself.

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  • Fri, May 22, 2020 - 3:36am

    Oliveoilguy

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jun 29 2012

    Posts: 826

    5

    The smart money....Where is it going?

    MM. You said........“There are three stages of empire ; the rise, the golden age, and the fall. where do you think we are now. As Jim Rogers said in the 1800's the smart money went to England. (it was already there) In the 1900's the smart money went to New York. In the 2000's the smart money went to ta da Asia (China) . He sold his NYC apartment moved to Singapore and got his daughter  Mandarin tutor.”

    Wrong......The smart money bought into the Rural lifestyle. The smart money bought land and is getting back to nature. London...New York...and China are finished.......Grow a garden and learn about real wealth.

     

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  • Fri, May 22, 2020 - 2:32pm

    wildtravel

    wildtravel

    Status: Member

    Joined: May 29 2013

    Posts: 42

    0

    Strike 3 and Out

    Reply to Mohammed Mast #153 and FYI Grover #127, #139 and #156, DaveFairtex #116, #124, #157, Oliveoilguy #158, TWalker5 #143 and particularly Angi #110 and #114

    “It is better to be talked about, than not talked about”

    So said Oscar Wilde, who it appears revelled in the same notoriety and opprobrium Mohammed Mast courts (and gets) in this thread. Quite a rise he got.

    They’re nihilists, Donny, nihilists.”
    The Big Lebowski

    Fifty two years, we are informed, it took for Mr Mast to cultivate his particular brand of very sophisticated and erudite nihilism, and IMO, all the associated impotent rage and self pity that goes hand in hand with such a world view:

    “… find a good deck chair this (censored brown word) is going down.”
    Mohammed Mast #143

    Now, I find nothing offensive in Mr Mast expressing such sad views (I’m genuinely sorry for his loss), but do take exception when he allegedly, and demonstrably (see my posts #149 and #154) spews his venom and vitriol on entirely innocent others, and targets, attempts to intimidate and threaten other members who inadvertently press his button about growing up and acting self responsibly, and then laughs AT them personally, as below:

    “So Angi says something about being adults and being responsible ..........cough cough cough.”
    Mohammed Mast #143

    Haha, very funny Mr Mohammed Mast, because the joke by you is actually on you, and in what I happily award you Strike 3 and out for, you are about to discover what becomes of the broken hearted in grown up land, where:

    “Alas, every prisoner becomes a fool! The imprisoned will, too, releases itself in a foolish way. It is sullenly wrathful that time does not run back …. And so, out of wrath and Ill temper, the will rolls stones about and takes revenge upon him who does not, like it, feel wrath and ill temper. Thus the will, the liberator, becomes a malefactor: and upon all that can suffer it takes revenge ….”
    Friedrich Nietzsche, “Of Redemption”, “Thus Spoke Zarathustra”

    Now, hopefully, I’ve offered Dr Chris Martenson a business proposition too good to refuse about how I recommend dealing with alleged liars and thugs like Mr Mohammed Mast, at #5 and #10 , for his own, Peak Prosperity’s and all the vast majority of other PP members own integrity, good will and good faith, which Mr Mohammed Mast has allegedly abused:

    FORUM GUIDELINES AND RULES

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  • Fri, May 22, 2020 - 3:06pm

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1047

    3

    wildtravel

    wildtravel

    What is your point and what do you want?

    • Attention
    • An apology - for what
    • An audience
    • Are you contributing something positive to the site
    • Have your feelings/ego been hurt
    • Are you trying to change the site

    Tirades and rantings are not providing positive or educational content.  You are very smart and passionate and I think your interesting.  However, what I hear in your postings are pain and frustration and your style of interaction is confrontational.  I suspect your pain has nothing to do with anyone here.  Please consider what your point is and how are you providing value to the community?  And if you don’t want to be a positive and productive member, then why are you here?

    AKGrannyWGrit

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  • Sat, May 23, 2020 - 1:36am

    wildtravel

    wildtravel

    Status: Member

    Joined: May 29 2013

    Posts: 42

    1

    Rhetorical Questions, Rhetorical Answers

    Hi AKGrannyWGrit,

    Thanks for sharing all about yourself.

    Firstly, lots of rhetorical questions here, which are actually statements about your feelings about Wildtravel, and the best response I can give to that is to acknowledge I have heard you, as below:

    “What do you want?

    Q1. “Attention”. A. So you feel like I am seeking attention, do you?
    Q2. “An apology”. A. So you feel like I am seeking an apology, do you?
    Q3. “An audience”. A. “So you feel like I am seeking an audience, do you?
    Q4. “Are you contributing something positive to the site” A. Do you feel as if I am contributing nothing to the site, do you?
    Q5. “Have your feelings/ego been hurt”. A. So you believe my feelings/ego have been hurt, do you?
    Q6.. “Are you trying to change the site”. A. As you full well know, I made specific “Recommendations” to that effect to Dr Martenson, at #5 in “Forum Guidelines and Rules”, in response to Chris’s invitation.
    Q7. “Tirades and rantings are not providing positive or educational content”. A. So you feel that “Tirades and rantings” do not provide “ positive or educational content, do you?
    Q8. “I hear in your postings are pain and frustration and your style of interaction is confrontational.” A. So you hear pain and frustration in my postings, do you? And you feel confronted by that style of interaction, do you?
    Q9. “I suspect your pain has nothing to do with anyone here.”  A.  So, you have suspicions, do you?
    Q10. “Please consider what your point is and how are you providing value to the community? A. OK. Consideration duly given.
    Q11. “if you don’t want to be a positive and productive member”. A. So, you feel like I’m not being a positive and productive member, do you?

    Eleven rhetorical questions and eleven rhetorical answers.   And “the point” of those rhetorical answers is that I am not you, or your feelings about me, and until you can see beyond you, you can never see me, can you?

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  • Sat, May 23, 2020 - 6:27am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 781

    0

    Thanks Dave

    Thanks for your detailed response. That is a very reasonable approach. The only item is anyone getting close enough to cough in your face is a minimum of 6 feet and that is minimum.

    As I have stated numerous times here this community is with a few exceptions well above average in terms of IQ and awareness. ( the IQ is mho). This site has been dedicated to raising awareness and preparing for the large scale changes expected and now upon us.

    It would seem my query raised some issues with people and the point was entirely missed. So I guess I will clarify for you since you took the time and respectfully gave your 2 cents. Angi was calling on the average Amerikaans to behave as adults to behave as you so eloquently described your behavior.

    Projection is a very common and comforting way to view the world. People tend to think other people view the world the same as you. I do not share the warm and fuzzy feelings that some might have for John Q public. I have stated as such numerous times and given my observations for that point of view.

    My experience in this particular virus warp has done nothing to disabuse me of that stance. I do not expect a large % of Amerikaans to behave rationally ie. social distance, wear a mask etc. I also have observed and have posted video evidence of Amerikaans behaving completely opposite of your description of your behavior which happens to be exactly like mine.

    Everyone is entitled to their own projections. The projection that chronological adults in this country are capable of behaving as emotional adults is not something I share. I do not find this patriotic flag waving constitution wrapping assertion of individual liberty particularly helpfu of compassionate. This is not directed at anyone here personally as I hold , as stated, most here in high regard.

    I hope that clarifies my position.

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  • Sat, May 23, 2020 - 10:12am

    Cia

    Cia

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 08 2020

    Posts: 16

    1

    Sweden regrets it

    A study was just released which shows that 7.4% of Stockholmers have antibodies. The government has not yet released the figures for the rest of the country, which are undoubtedly much lower. Sweden has had four thousand deaths, most of which would have been avoided if they had taken measures. The highest per capita rate in Europe, and the highest deaths per million. While all their locked-down Scandinavian neighbors have had a small portion of Sweden’s mortality.

     

    So Sweden carelessly sacrificed four thousand lives to get a small percentage of Stockholmers with antibodies. We don’t yet know if that protects them from future Covid infections or how long any immunity might last. It might last only from between eight months to two years. I can’t imagine anyone thinking that it was worth it.

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  • Sat, May 23, 2020 - 6:37pm

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 728

    4

    Reply to Akgranny - fear level

    I get the whole thing that makes the stats look insignificant or a reasonable risk.. like 1%chance of death of under 50.  First, i wouldnt bank my life on this statistic at all. AND try telling that to the people under 50"healthy" that lives are ruined from long-term issues.. mind those that have died , and left children, husband, wives , etc behind.

    As what is an acceptable risk?  well my mom over 70, lost husband a couple years ago.  has several raised children - several raised grand kids..    She is fearless and what will be will be..  what the big deal even with her having a much much much higher risk??  however, If you have a family, like me,  young child , like me, who is dependent on me teaching and providing for her,  death from coronavirus is not an option at any risk level.. and when you get to a mere 2%  ( and I am sure its higher than this )  it means one out of 50 die... THAT is dead. what about disabled and permanently injured?   what about 4%? 1: 25 people you know die?  and more sick and injured.    You cannot compare this to a death by car... you may get 1:100 people you know in a year or two in a serious car accident causing injury..  but probably death will be once a decade for this many people.    ( this is not the low risk you portray .) and its not the same risk for everyone. If i was like my mother, raised kids and grand kids.. , buried a husband,  and lived life in the golden era and made it to nearly 80,  there is no loss and no risk.

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