• Podcast

    Ron Paul: THIS Worries Me Much More Than Covid

    More government intervention makes every problem worse
    by Adam Taggart

    Wednesday, December 9, 2020, 3:36 PM

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If you’re concerned about the overreach of government in juicing asset prices to dangerous levels, picking economic winner and losers, and constraining our personal freedoms — you have very good right to be.

So says lifelong champion of free markets, sound money and civil liberty, former US Congressman Dr Ron Paul:

Having spent decades in Washington serving as a member of the House of Representatives, Dr Paul is intimately familiar with both the institutions and the individuals currently running our country. And he has “zero” confidence that they will competently handle the major challenges facing America today.

2020 has given politicians a golden moment to capitalize off of the old DC strategy to “never let a crisis go to waste”. And they are making the most out of the current anxiety and uncertainty, using it to justify increased government intervention in nearly every aspect of our lives.

More monetary and fiscal stimulus has been injected this year than ever before in history, by a long shot. Same for Federal borrowing and deficit spending.

More limitations on how we’re allowed to conduct commerce, travel and gather with our families — even what information is permissible to voice publicly — have been imposed than at any time since WW2.

Dr Paul sees this accelerating grab by the government for expanded power and control as exactly what we DON’T need to effectively and sustainably tackle the truly massive tasks ahead of us, such as beating the coronavirus and addressing our nation’s truly massive debt overhang.

The solutions to those, and nearly every problem a society faces, are rooted in expanded freedoms, self-determination, and fair systems that allow the best ideas to prevail.

To understand why, play our recent interview with Dr Ron Paul.

Transcript

Chris Martenson: We asked former U.S. Congressman Ron Paul, if he thinks the government is going to get better at dealing with the big challenges we face--the Coronavirus pandemic, our massive national debt and the newly announced global reset initiative--here's what he said:

Ron Paul: I would say the odds of people coming to their senses in Washington from my experience up there are about 00.

Chris Martenson: Welcome to Peak Prosperity. It's my honor today to welcome Dr. Ron Paul to the program. Dr. Paul served as a republican member of the U.S. House of Representatives. He also ran for the Presidential nomination, first as a libertarian and then later on as a republican. And he did much of this while still serving as a practicing physician delivering over 4000 babies.

Dr. Paul has been a lifelong advocate of free market economics, of radical reduction in the size of government, privacy protection for individuals and a reduction in U.S. foreign interventions. We are going to ask him about all of those questions here. But before we get started, Dr. Paul, it is a pleasure to welcome you to the program and I'd like to start by saying it's wonderful to see you in good health.

Ron Paul: Well, very good and I'm very happy to be with you today.

Chris Martenson: Dr. Paul, let me start with the obvious if I may--the coronavirus pandemic caught the world by surprise in 2020. And I'm going to ask you some questions about COVID and public health in just a few minutes given your medical background. But before we get there I just wanted to emphasize that the pandemic and government's response to it has exacerbated a number of the things that you have spent your career warning about--debt, deficit spending, easy monetary policy and government overreach. Let's start with those.

So looking at the U.S. National deficit it's going to be over $3 trillion this year which is a--a record by a huge amount and they are still considering additional stimulus this year so that number could go even higher.

Continuing to look at our national addiction to debt, the Congressional Budget Office estimates that the National Debt is going to be over 100% of GDP in 2021. So my question for you, Dr. Paul, is this--are all of these emergency actions stimulus programs, etcetera, emergency borrowing deficits is that actually necessary given the scope of the crisis that we're dealing with? Or are we perhaps creating a much bigger long-term crisis for ourselves given the short-term short sightedness of the response?

Ron Paul: Depends on what your goal is. It's very, very necessary if you want to keep it together under similar conditions we have today for at least a few more months. Other words, the price is very high and it--it won't continue. It's going to destroy the further future out there. And the whole thing is--is we don't know exactly when that will happen. They are going to keep spending and printing and doing whatever they can to manufacture prosperity--which isn't even being achieved right now. There is a lot of money going out there but the people aren't really getting economic growth again. Some people don't go back to work because the welfare benefits are so great. And that just can't last.

So but on the short run, if Trump hadn't pressured them and the democrats hadn't pressured the Fed about a year ago--because I think the--the economic correction from the bubble that the Fed created occurred before COVID. COVID complicated things. And they have--the both parties they were there and the Fed changed its tune after it was discovered the ___ [00:03:37]rates back September of 18, the rates went up to 10%, the spigot was turned on and it really made everybody happy even though they did politicize it a bit. But that's I think that is doing it--a person that's been on drugs and they're--they're having some--they're having some symptoms because they are being weened off drugs or they missed it and they can get pretty violent and problems. And that's the economy is going to get like that.

So that's why even though the right thing to do--people know what it is. Quit spending, balance the budget, have some money. Give us a free country. Let us solve our own problem. But that's not going to happen because the medicine is too tough. The system can't hold it. But we don't realize that what the people should realize is that the--if you don't take that treatment the results will be more deadly than the ramifications of living within our means. And that's where the real problem is. So I would say the odds of people coming to their senses in Washington from my experience up there are about 00. They would all of a sudden have enough people, enough members of Conbress to represent a more libertarian free market approach and quit this spending and living within our means.

So we have to look forward, vaguely speaking in a positive way--anticipating this thing is going to get much worse and nobody can understand how exactly it might turn out. Most of the time when a country gets into this much trouble the--the final results are very, very bad.

Chris Martenson: I was hoping maybe there was a little bit more hope in the story than that but 0.0 is pretty definitive prediction there. You've been there. You know the people that are in place. You know the institution is making the decision so I trust your estimates way better than mine. So Dr. Paul, it sounds like you are saying look, they are going to continue doing what they're doing just until the system breaks. At this point, do you think that it is going to break economically in a way that they just can't control at some point in time? Or because of the--the huge wealth disparity that all of the intervention is creating, right? The spoils are going into the pockets of a smaller and smaller group of people that are kind of running the show and everybody else is getting left behind. Do you fear sort of a social unrest element to this story?

Ron Paul: You know, I think that's--that's the key thing to be concerned about cause you know, I don't remember everything about the depression but a little bit about it I was born ___[00:06:23]. People were destitute and they were poor but it was different--different now because I think there is more dependency, more anger, more demands and more at stake and that the discrepancy between the wealth in this country is worse than ever And right now, the people who have the upper hand on this which should scare everybody is this fits into the scenario that the socialists and the Marxists and the communists you now, can use to argue the case for see what happens with capitalism. So if we believe in freedom can't convert more people to an understanding that what we are talking about today--the shortcomings, has nothing to do with freedom. It has to do with the opposite. It has to do with a system of corporatism, pseudo capitalism and yet there is a lot of people in Washington still who believe it is a you know, it is because that we don't have enough spending and this sort of thing and that is of course, the reason why you hear more people willing to talk about socialism.

But it's going to be up for grabs and it's going to be very, very tough. But I think your question inferred or inquired whether or not there could turn into violence and I think so. I think the violence is there already. When you look at what was happening in our streets and we still see it today that they--they tear our cities and steal and rob and then they identify with the police and the police don't help bring about order. There is no respect for private property. I think that is just the beginning. Because we do not one thing the people have to remember--we do not create wealth by creating new money.

Most people say, send me another check and we'll go back to work and create the money. Turns out the people ___ [00:08:18]it was more than they were making in their job. So they are not going to go back to work a lot of them. So this is I think the violence should be something that we should be very concerned about. And a lot of people are planning for it, unfortunately. Because it is only the change in philosophy and the belief in freedom and the responsibility of individuals to care for themselves that can prevent this from--from coming unglued.

Chris Martenson: All right, so let's pull in that thread just a little bit more in terms of you know, the hunger of the masses to you know, to take in the promises of those that are offering them you know, I think it's understandable to think that the masses would say look, if I'm getting shafted I may as well get shafted and get something. So the guy who is promising me free healthcare, you know, debt forgiveness whatever I am going to go for that guy.

The pandemic has served as an accelerator for sort of a new concept that is being put forth at the--the global level world govenrments, world NGOs like the world economic forum and the IMF in many major developed countries have now been putting forward this concept called the Great Reset. And I just want to very quickly for those folks who aren't familiar with it, give its quick tenets.

It says it targets a redefinition of capitalism and this is what you were just getting to Dr. Paul. The three main pillars are, they want to steer their market towards fairer outcomes and that is very interesting because who determines what's fair if the market is not determining what is fair. And they plan to use taxes and regulations to do that. They are looking to increase economic stimulus spending that focuses on quality and sustainability. So these are things like green infrastructure projects and what not. And then, the last is to harness innovation to address health and social challenges very much int eh way the world is marshaling to fight COVID they want to marshal the world's resources to target things like public health and social challenges. And on the surface that doesn't sound so bad given your experience as a U.S. Congressman, as an economic hawk and as a defender of personal freedoms, what's your reaction to this?

Ron Paul: Not a chance in the world that this reset is something positive about it. Reset sounds like pretty good. Reassess things and do the right thing. Everything they are talking about is doing more of it. It is like this modern monetary theory. Oh, what we ought to do is print more money and pass it out and that will solve the problem. No, I think resetting is just the anticipation that we should have anticipated and we are having it more and more the longer system we have lasts the more demands you need. Bigger deficits and you need more government intrusion, we need more regulation. And what they're talking about is not a solution. The only thing that is a solution is returning to an understanding of what free people can do for themselves.

It isn't like I know the odds are pretty slim and for now I think that they are correct. But it doesn't mean it has to be that way because one of the most memorable times in my lifetime and that's not that long ago, is 1989 and 1990 with the collapse of the Soviet system. I thought that was the most fantastic thing in the world. But it wasn't so much that the grassroots understood ___ [00:11:52]but they did understand that communism was a total failure and they just walked away from it. What was amazing was that and I was drafted in the 60's during the Cold War and missiles in Cuba and this sort of thing. So they were ready to do that. But all of a sudden there was no exchange of weapons. It just collapsed. Things did get somewhat better--there was a freedom, there was a dividend but it was all a façade because it was not so much going to liberty but it was going to economic interventionism, the Keynesian approach which some people accepted as a substitute for communism.

Well, it was better but the thing of it is the point I'm making is it wasn't a whole answer it was a part of an answer and it happened without the total annihilation of billions of people like had been occurring so often. I thought that's what we need. We need a change but instead of going back and saying we can modify Keynesianism we just need people at the Federal Reserve. We can solve this problem. No. We need a changed attitude among the people to understand why their best interests are only going to occur when we live in a free society which emphasizes the responsibility of each and every individual to take care of themselves and that they have this responsibility and of course, they have the benefits too. They own their own life and they just have that one rule. Don't lie, cheat or steal and things would get better. But back to my assessment--we don't have enough yet but we have a growing number of people. A program like yours that gets information out that talks about these things. There are a lot of people out there and we are coming, we are going to come to this climactic end and maybe the question should be could we have a transition like in 88, 89 and 90 to something more peaceful and then we participate what a free society is all about.

So I remain optimistic on that but very pessimistic on expecting congress in the next year or two or in a Biden administration to all of a sudden shift gears. It's going to get worse before it gets better.

Chris Martenson: All right. All right so then switching then from civil liberties for a second to the economy and something that we spend a lot of time talking about here at Peak Prosperity as well and Dr. Paul, I know you have been again one of the more you know, vocal advocates for you know, better economic policies that bring us into better alignment both with living in our means and also increasing you know, fairness, sound money, etcetera.

So just real quickly, we are looking at an economy that was as you said earlier it was actually struggling pre COVID then it got basically a massive gut shot from the pandemic and the lockdowns that came along with it. What is interesting is the economy is still really struggling to get out of that hole and yet, we have asset prices back up to record all time high levels of valuations. By many metrics the most richly valued they have ever been in all of history. And I am just curious as you look forward do you have a strong sense of how this is going to end up? You know, will history repeat and get some big corrective crash here or are we at the point potentially where the flood gates have bene opened so wide that it is just run away prices from here?

Ron Paul: It's going to end up with a crack and boom that is what ___[00:15:33] talked about. That is what we are seeing in some of these areas like the stocks and the bonds. The bonds--you know, 0% and it is probably below 0 if you talk about real interest rates. That is just huge. And I think people don't talk about the bond market and debt because that is all we have to offer is more debt and printing, printing of money. That is why that is going to be the dilemma. You know, in the 70s we had something interesting happening we had like invisible crash. Prices were going up and they were taking away all of the ___ [00:16:09]at the same time there was a slump it was a depression but there was a price inflation. Right now, we live with people in Washington that only thing that represents growth and the economy they pretend its just printing more money.

What they are saying is the only way you have growth in the economy is if you have inflation. Here we have been working for years now. If we can only get prices to go up and stick it to the people about 2 or 3% a year that will get over this. Well, prices are going up a lot faster of ra lot of people. And I think that is going to happen. That is where the liquidation comes. The liquidation of the debt and the malinvestment has to occur if we ever want to get back to real growth. And the liquid ___ [00:17:01]usually occurs with the governments with liquidating the value of the money because what I was implying before it is not going to be liquidated by people working hard, sending more money to the government and paying down the debt and the spending you know, backs off. That is not going to happen.

So the liquidation is going to come with high price inflation devaluing I see the valuation will be in the currency. I think we see a little bit of that now you know, the dollar is not quite as strong as it was maybe six months ago. I think it is going to be a lot more than that and the crack up boom you can't predict and that is the one thing about Austrian economics--they can print money but they never know where it goes.

So yes, they printed tons of it, trillions of it and yet the consumer price index hasn't gone up. People how can this be? We don't have any inflation. What they are doing is saying, we don't see inflation we can keep printing more money and guess who supports it? There are two groups of people there republicans and democrats because none of them I shouldn't say none, there are very, very few willing to attack the source of all this, the financing, the sinister financing that creates this imbalance in wealth and that is the federal reserve system and the deficit financing.

Chris Martenson: On that topic of sort of the diminishment of the purchasing power of the currency through all of this money printing. You have been an outspoken advocate for precious metals and I'm curious you know, now that the Fed has essentially doubled its balance sheet in the past year, has your opinion on them changed and do you have an opinion on the cryptocurrencies as well?

Ron Paul: ___ [00:18:49]printing money eventually causes a great deal of harm because you know, it destroys interest rates. It destroys the most important price there is and that is the price of money and that is why economic ___ [00:19:02]crumbles and history is on the side of saying precious metals seem to hold up best to preserve wealth even though I think it does I endorse that principle really the only thing that really protects us is our liberty and shrinkage of government. But in the meantime, fi you are looking to try to survive you know, the metals are very good.

And a lot of people and I speak at the cryptocurrencies and the Bitcoin conferences except when this lockdown came and I don't get on airplanes at the present time. But I speak there although I am not you know, a cheerleader. I see the short--one of the things about gold it's lasted for a long time and it has served a purpose. But even gold what good is it if you don't have your liberties? Just think for 42 years or so since 1933 we weren't even allowed to own gold until 1975 so it is that relationship it is that freedoms that really count.

___ [00:20:16]in office is to help get gold legalized again and make sure people can use it and as a haven. And on as far as the cryptocurrencies go I introduced legislation which would be to permit competing currencies and get rid of the legal tender laws. Because governments want control and they have to control it. So that is a concern that I have with cryptocurrencies because looks like a lot of people are voting for cryptocurrencies right now. And if they are looking at it only in the dollar crypto exchange they can say, well we are doing very, very well. But I think that -- that the governments are always wanting control. Always in the monetary system and the more crypto is accepted as money the more controls there would be.

You say well, it's anonymous and it's transparency but I read the stories. I talk to individuals who have been hit at the exchanges cause they didn’t pay enough taxes on it. And that bothers me. I don’t like to pay taxes on anything. There's no perfect -- perfect transition into accepting cryptocurrencies and everybody is going to be happy about it. My goal is to keep it legal and minimize the opportunity for governments to come in and dictate how they must be used. One of the goals--the way I understand it--one of the goals with the cryptocurrency is way too many reports to avoid going through the banking system this sort of thing. I find it fascinating. I think the technology is very interesting. I think blockchain technology has a lot of benefits. But I think I don't think the final word is in for cryptocurrencies and Bitcoin as being money as--as beneficial and useful as the precious metals.

Chris Martenson: Great. I think very similar to you, personally, Dr. Paul I do want to ask you this question because this is such an interesting topic to me. The Treasury is allergic to competition when it comes to you know, the guy who is printing minting coins in his garage, right? They will throw you in person for that. It has somewhat flummoxed me that they've allowed the cryptocurrency community to flourish as much as it has. One line of thought might be well they are just letting them kind of figure the model out. And at some point the government will step in with a Fed coin or a digital dollar or whatever it is. What is the likelihood you would see and we have even heard some talk this year about the central banks issuing digital currencies?

What do you see is the likelihood of the government making it harder and harder to own these cryptocurrencies once it has its own product out there?

Ron Paul: Well that's the nature of government. Govenrments will do it if they remain the size it is now and it keeps expanding. If you have a proper size government in a republic you wouldn’t have to worry about it. But I can remember going I believe the federal reserve chairman that was before--I believe it was Bernanke at the time when crypto was coming up as a subject and I asked the question you know, about it what is his opinion about it? And it was more to see what I could find out. And I was sort of surprised about the answer. The answer wasn't critical of the concept. It wasn't endorsing it but it wasn't condemning it. I thought they are keeping a close eye on that and they know exactly what is going on. But I think all authoritarian governments control the money whether it's gold, whether it's cryptocurrency, whether it's cattle or any other substitute people want to control wealth. And that of course is what the--what the real authoritarians whether the Marxists or the fascists, they control wealth.

Right now, most people in Washington they want to control wealth because they use it as a political tool to pass out the wealth and the get re-elected and they are powerful and then they have their own wealth to enjoy.

Chris Martenson: All right, well look, Dr. Paul, thank you so much for your time .I'm going to end with this one last question--as a doctor I'm just curious for your personal perspective on handling of COVID. You have this challenge if you are running a country and I get it, right? You are trying to maintain the balance of keeping your economy running while not allowing so many people to contract the virus such that you are overwhelming your healthcare system. Do you have a perspective on what you think is the right approach for handling a national challenge like this?

Ron Paul: The danger of the virus is blown way out of proportion but it is serious and it should be dealt with. That's why you don't want Fauci being the king and the dictator and Bill Gates who has ulterior motives they shouldn't be dictators that tell us what to do. I am a strong believer in natural immune systems, you know, the vitamin approach to it and I think this is--this is much better than to expect the ___[00:25:44] to solve the problem. We talk a lot about that on my ___[00:25:49] report.

Now they are coming up--today I came across an article where they have I think it is occurring in Great Britain they have two vaccines that they are dealing with--this one is pretty good and this one is pretty good. I think what we ought to do is start in January and have this experiment. Let's put them together and test them. And these things are experimental. They're using RNA instead of DNA. They’ve never done it before and they have had some catastrophic problems with vaccines. Now does that mean we shouldn’t have vaccines? No. It should be done voluntarily people should have choices. This whole idea that people won't have a choice and they are talking about right now that is a real concern of mine is that to have the passport injected into your arm you won't go anywhere without your passport. But that is coming if we don't reverse this trend because governments want to know exactly what we are doing.

I don't see any advantage no advantage from what they have done--the government has done with dealing with the virus. Once again, it isn't that the virus doesn’t have some danger but that's the reason you don't want the government doing it. Cause they can take a minor danger and make it 10 times worse and believe me, they took a recession, depression that was on its way and now they have made it much, much worse and it is not going to end easily. Because nobody can be against the spending for the vaccine. So that is the sad part. People have to think about living in a free society where people have a responsibility for themselves and they have the ability to keep what they have--keep what they have earned. It's their life.

No, no think of all the things that the government does good for--well, I can list a few things I think the government does harm to it. There the government is the greatest threat to our civil liberties. Not your next door neighbor because I think your neighborhoods can be pretty well protected by the second amendment and just getting along with people. We need more of that.

Chris Martenson: Well, thank you for that, Dr. Paul. You remind me of my favorite demotivational poster which says, Government if you don't like the problems we create just wait till you see our solutions. Anyways, Dr. Paul, thank you so much for sharing all of your expertise and your perspective with us. Thank you again for your championship of all of the elements that we talked about today from personal liberties to economic freedoms etcetera. For people who are interested in continuing to follow you and learn more about you and your work where should they go?

Ron Paul: Well, the best thing to do because I do this almost every single day at least five days a week is the Ron Paul Liberty Report. And we live stream a program, 11:00 Central time. And its usually 25 to 30 minutes. It's a pretty related program. And we do a lot of foreign policy. Started that way but lately it's been a lot on civil liberty and COVID and what is happening with the economy.

Chris Martenson: Great. Well, Dr. Paul we'll put up an overlay showing that your ___ [00:29:01]to folks so they can go check out your daily work. And folks, as a reminder if you want to know who we are having as upcoming guests in this program just follow me on Twitter @menlobear(PH). Dr. Paul, thank you so much again. Really appreciate you taking the time out of your busy day to share your expertise. And we hope to have you on at some point in 2021 to see what's happening at that point.

Ron Paul: Sounds good. Nice being with you today.

Chris Martenson: Real pleasure. Thank you.

 

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21 Comments

  • Wed, Dec 09, 2020 - 5:25pm

    #1
    VTGothic

    VTGothic

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jan 05 2020

    Posts: 672

    0

    Senator Paul three days ago

    Here is a different emphasis from Sen. Paul, covering much of the same territory. This one was conducted by Bitcoin podcaster Stephan Livera on December 6th.  Paul anticipates a difficult immediate 2-3 years from here unwinding debt and mal-investment; but a decade to process the whole mess. "The question is: what are you going to replace it with?"





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  • Wed, Dec 09, 2020 - 7:16pm

    #2
    Mike from Jersey

    Mike from Jersey

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jan 22 2018

    Posts: 765

    8

    Ron Paul

    Ron Paul is a great guy. I am not a libertarian but I love the guy. He has integrity. If only one out of every five people in Congress was like him, we could not have the problems that we do.

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  • Wed, Dec 09, 2020 - 7:21pm

    #3

    Beckett Bennett

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 114

    1

    Why businesses should stay closed!

    Dr. Paul

    2020 has given politicians a golden moment to capitalize off of the old DC strategy to “never let a crisis go to waste”. And they are making the most out of the current anxiety and uncertainty, using it to justify increased government intervention in nearly every aspect of our lives.

    And to highlight Dr. Pauls message - why the government thinks bussinesses should dtay closed!

    https://youtu.be/_O9ltm_Gml0

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  • Wed, Dec 09, 2020 - 8:27pm

    #4
    Mots

    Mots

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jun 18 2012

    Posts: 467

    18

    Advice from R Paul at 17 min: "..xyz in washington.... has to happen if we want to get back to real growth."

    Ron Paul is a great guy and preaches well to this choir.  But.....
    I think that we are missing the real issue.  We need something other than "give the people freedom to consume and build.... and we can get back to good`ol growth again"

    From the viewpoint of long term survival and environmental destruction on this planet (and ignoring a commenced multi-year horror show, particularly in the cities of a collapsing empire affecting ca. 10% of people on the planet), perhaps it might be better to follow the present course of complete economic destruction as preferable to "get back to real growth." What was that about the insects, temperature changes, etc? Fossil fuel depletion? Mass starvation?}

    "Real growth" is over, even if we wanted it and "went back" to previous slash and burn for profit unrestricted appetite satisfaction via the recommended growth. The problem is deeper than the temporal collapse of the American empire and lack of "growth."  As bad as the Exceptional American collapse will be, the collapse of the ecosystem etc. is a much bigger deal and affects not just the 5% exceptional Americans who have been living high off the hog the last 50 years but also the billions who recently are getting out of poverty and finally emerging into the middle class in places like China, India, Nepal, Eastern Europe etc. even now, while America is collapsing.

    How about interviewing someone with proposed solutions that can merge freedom and liberty without having to "get back to real growth."

    I suggest that the past American empire and its exceptional life styles are dead meat and it is useless and even counter productive to fix a system that was DESIGNED and structured for consuming an exponential increase in resources.  The issuance of money for example fit exponential resource growth very well.  Going back to the past system to "get back to real growth" as Dr. Paul urges is inconsistent both with a. natural collapse of an empire, and (especially) b. limits to growth.

    How about interviewing someone who knows how to juggle human freedom with an economic system that suits a non-expanding money supply/resource world?  Agorism anyone?  Small resilient community formation?

    Lamenting lack of growth and discussing how to tinker with a totally inapplicable economic system to "get back to real growth" impedes our ability to think clearly about the serious problem, which goes beyond abandonment of this ism for that ism.
    Finally, arguments that the real problem is government getting too involved with the economy etc are ridiculous because we do NOT have a "government."  We have fascism,  the merger of state and corporate power.  There is no "government" here.  Just one matrix of overlapping racketeering systems that pretend to have our consent to dictate to us with make believe choices of theatrical actors/puppets.
    Again, it just feels listening to this that we are still being played like a bunch of fools.  "If we can only get the politicians to do the right thing!!!!!" is horseshit and counterproductive thinking.

    Energy is everything. Politics is nothing.  Lets talk about energy...........

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  • Wed, Dec 09, 2020 - 10:21pm

    #5
    agitating prop

    agitating prop

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: May 28 2009

    Posts: 851

    4

    agitating prop said:

    Too much of the wrong kind of government and too little of the right kind.

    So many Americans have this weird Jones for freedom, a concept that evades definition. The word gets thrown around, bounces off a wall of reality, and ends up hitting the 'freedom loving' square in the mouth. And that hurts.

    "Freedom" has been used to  promote laissez faire economics, fast food, fast relationships, fast people.

    Proper government should be there to encourage people to be adults, in the true sense--to eschew excess, manage expectations downward if they are wealthy and increase their community networks and shrink their environmental footprint.

    As Motts said, there is no going back to the way it was.

     

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  • Thu, Dec 10, 2020 - 8:11am

    #6

    LesPhelps

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2009

    Posts: 701

    5

    Mots hit the ball out of the park

    I have always listened to Ron Paul and wish his perspective would work.  Personal freedom is a beautiful idea.  Small government is even more appealing.

    But, I do not believe that the majority of people, given complete personal freedom, will make decisions that are sustainable and ecologically sound.  Humans have not evolved that way any more than any other living organism on the planet.  Humans, left unchecked, like all living organisms, will grow and expand until we outgrow our resources and overwhelm our planet.  That’s what’s happening and probably will continue to happen, whether we wind up with reset, or personal freedom.

    Just to be perfectly clear, I do not stand behind any government mandated reset.  They will get it wrong.

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  • Thu, Dec 10, 2020 - 8:30am

    brushhog

    brushhog

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Oct 06 2015

    Posts: 627

    3

    If you can't trust people with freedom

    Then you can't trust them with power.

    "Humans, left unchecked, like all living organisms, will grow and expand until we outgrow our resources and overwhelm our planet."

    LOL. Who's going to do the checking, Les? Other humans. Lets put a rat in charge of the cheese to keep the mice from eating it.

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  • Thu, Dec 10, 2020 - 9:23am

    stevedaly

    stevedaly

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    Mots, Instead of growth in numbers....

    Instead of growth in numbers what about growth in the standard of living?  Would Japan be a model of stagnant numbers but improved standard of living?

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  • Thu, Dec 10, 2020 - 10:31am

    LesPhelps

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2009

    Posts: 701

    3

    Who’s going to do the checking

    LOL. Who's going to do the checking, Les? Other humans. Lets put a rat in charge of the cheese to keep the mice from eating it.

    I didn’t say I had a solution, or even that a solution is possible.  Frankly, I’m skeptical.

    Individuals and small groups can live sustainably.  Some do.  Our species has not demonstrated that capability.

    To be honest, my lifestyle times 7.5 billion is not sustainable on our planet.

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  • Thu, Dec 10, 2020 - 10:55am

    #10
    pyranablade

    pyranablade

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    We Need Both

    It is a great thing that you bring up Mots, the natural environment. I'd read some comments on this site in the last few weeks that upset me so much that I had vowed to stop reading the comments. In particular, America's uber-nerd, Bill Gates is being vilified in some conspiracy theories that I do not subscribe to. People think the man is lying when he says something with that smirk, but the smirk is just part of his nerdiness, the man really believes that vaccines are good for Africans and the world. Because we live on a finite planet, reducing the human population is something that will happen... yeah, I suppose I'd have to agree that I don't want "nerds" or "elites" or "the government" to engineer a reduction in population.... but then again, an engineered reduction in population over a period of decades would be far more merciful than keeping business as usual running until many millions or billions will just have to starve. Did you learn about "carrying capacity" in grade school? The idea is that any ecosystem (including the whole earth) can only "carry" a limited population (of any species, human beings included). Right now we're already past the number of people that our planet can support without agriculture being heavily subsidized by fossil fuels.

    Anyway, forgive me for going on something of a rant, but I've been on this site a long time and I do think my views are consistent with the crash course while some of the comments that frustrate me aren't consistent with it.

    The original point I was going to make before going off on that (for me) much needed tangent is that we need both. We need to work on what Ron Paul talks about - monetary sustainability, and what Mots was pointing to - environmental sustainability. It won't be easy to get there, but we need to have both!

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  • Thu, Dec 10, 2020 - 10:59am

    #11
    VTGothic

    VTGothic

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    Harness Animal Spirits

    The problem in front of us is exactly what several have mentioned, above: that whether our numbers are reduced by nature or by government it's going to be horrible. I honestly don't know which would be worse, either physically or morally; I'd prefer neither, though it appears we're choosing government, since we don't even question the economic system that mandates expansion in order to keep its wheels turning.

    A "good" or "better" standard of living is subjective. We don't agree on what makes for the "good life," so no government mandated behavior is going to satisfy everyone, or even very many. The course we are on is sure to breed ever-broader discontent. But if we do nothing, we will soon collapse by natural means. Indeed, we're edging past the tipping point already, with no apparent inclination to dramatically change our consumption patterns and desires, despite clearly understanding what we're doing.

    That's because our inflation-centered economic system incentivizes us to consume today rather than postpone, because tomorrow our money will afford less.

    I don't think we can improve our standard of living, even if we stabilize our numbers, as long as we measure "standard of living" in terms of things owned or, more broadly, consumption, as long as we persist in exercising an economic system built on inflation.

    I favor transition to a deflationary economics anchored in the natural trend of advancing technology to reduce costs of goods and services. I don't pretend that such a transition would not also be hurtful, but at least I can see a better world on the other side. As long as our economy has to keep growing exponentially to continue, it doesn't matter how much we reduce our numbers, we'll eat up the rest of the resources.

    A tech-powered deflationary economy, however, makes goods available at steadily reduced cost, meaning we need less income year over year for the same standard of living. It also requires a hard money base so that monetary inflation cannot be used to offset deflationary pressures - which is what happens now.

    "Show me the incentive and I'll show you the outcome," right?

    When an inflationary policy is tied to a randomized liquid supply of money, purchasing power is always better today than tomorrow. Result: no incentive to reduce/reuse/recycle, nor to put off until tomorrow what you can buy more cheaply today, nor to avoid debt-fueled consumption.

    When tech-powered deflation is embraced and tied to a hard money regime, money is worth more tomorrow than it is today. That incentivized reduced consumption, reuse/repurposing, and recycling. It creates demand for products that last as long as possible to avoid spending on something today that will be cheaper tomorrow or next month. It promotes savings, frugality, and rational investments in sound ideas because interest has to be high to be larger than the natural increase in purchasing power enabled by deflationary forces over time. With such frugality comes a decreased notion of how many things one needs in order to feel life is high-quality.

    In other words, with a high time horizon we're more satisfied putting off until tomorrow what we feel we "need" today when we have a low time horizon.

    I can imagine that in a tech-enabled deflationary environment even family planning would become more thoughtful and conservative, as the cost of having and raising a child gets cheaper the further conception is pushed into the future. Families would naturally become smaller; population would shrink at the same time consumption declined, resource depletion slowed, and time spent working for money declined. Free time would increase, with all that means in terms of life quality.

    Government would certainly be put on a diet, because taxes will always cost more purchasing power tomorrow, so everyone would agitate for constantly lower real tax rates. Plus, as everyone gets more today for a dollar than yesterday, everyone gets steadily richer; by postponing spending we'd increase savings rates, too, thus personal wealth. Who, then, needs ever-metastasizing government programs?

    Align economic incentives with desired outcomes. Animal spirits will do the rest.

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  • Thu, Dec 10, 2020 - 11:46am

    #12
    Mots

    Mots

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    "Would Japan be a model of stagnant numbers but improved standard of living?"

    Steve Daly posed this question.  "Would Japan be a model of stagnant numbers but improved standard of living?"

    I moved to a small island in Japan and my wife and I are working on trying to find a modern equivalent of Japan's Edo period where 30 million people lived sustainably in an area the size of California between 1650 and 1850.  A complex society was built without exponential growth and with massive recycling of wastes etc.

    The Japanese people I talk to hate that history because they had an entrenched elite.  I dont have an answer to that problem but am working with the puzzle of how to get a modern Edo on technology steroids of high comfort/convenience while living sustainably.  My results so far recently are published in my book "Take Back The Power!" with me Marvin Motsenbocker as author on Amazon.com.  I am only mentioning this as a public service message since I dont expect to make money on this and have learned that long term friends suddenly hate me when they find out my true feelings about big corporate and US law (my last vocation).  Only a few really care enough to build a resilient life and are a tiny minority and are the intended target of my book. But if you are interested  I can help with circuit boards and parts.

    We need to think about children and must come up with a structure to discover the wide ranging talents of each child at an early age and then specifically help each to reach their potential as a big way to achieve social mobility.  In my opinion this is our biggest problem because the elite are destroying OUR future for the benefit of their lazy children's future.  Jerald Kushner is a prime example of this evil that I would like to see a system designed to prevent.  Why aren't we addressing  this problem?  Guillotines only are effective for a couple generations cause much distress and the assholes grow back like so many cockroaches.  We need to eliminate evil in a better manner.  How to prevent or get rid of these assholes?

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  • Thu, Dec 10, 2020 - 3:33pm

    #13
    Steve

    Steve

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    Crash up, boom

    What did Dr. Paul mean when he said the market will "crash up, boom?"  Did he mean it will crash up like a rocket?  Or did he mean it would crash down?

    I did not understand his terminology.

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  • Thu, Dec 10, 2020 - 3:53pm

    #14
    agitating prop

    agitating prop

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: May 28 2009

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    2

    taking proper action

    We need to think about children and must come up with a structure to discover the wide ranging talents of each child at an early age and then specifically help each to reach their potential as a big way to achieve social mobility. In my opinion this is our biggest problem because the elite are destroying OUR future for the benefit of their lazy children's future. Jerald Kushner is a prime example of this evil that I would like to see a system designed to prevent. Why aren't we addressing this problem? Guillotines only are effective for a couple generations cause much distress and the assholes grow back like so many cockroaches. We need to eliminate evil in a better manner. How to prevent or get rid of these assholes?--Mots

    Prevent generational accumulation of wealth, which equals power by taxing the hell out of it. Raise capital gains tax on investment income, and rental income. Tax inherited wealth as a capital gains and prevent offshoring of wealth in tax shelters.

    Then defund the military. Take all of that money and pour it into schooling, hospitals and healthcare and make sure healthcare is completely divorced from big pharma.

    It could be done, but people have been successfully brainwashed into equating higher taxes with the "evils of socialism" that the will to take appropriate action has evaporated.

     

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  • Thu, Dec 10, 2020 - 4:13pm

    Mots

    Mots

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    "It could be done,"

    Thank you Agitating, for thoughtful comments.
    Yes, "it could be done" in a functioning democracy with checks and balances.
    We are way past that.  Fascism is fascism and things are not the same.

    I used to work for an extremely ethical giant pharmaceutical company. We were very ethical because our profit was affected by the fourth estate.  Exposure to bad image and lawsuits created a very ethical situation. Even now in Japan, image sensitivity creates a good climate.

    But America has become way too rotted out. Fascists control "truth" and image.  Your money cannot compete with their funding and control. Fascism will grow until the whole thing is destroyed.  Talk to an honest lawyer who has worked as a lawyer for the last 30 years (or a real journalist) and listen to what they say about the changes.  You seem to be stuck in an America-golden ages of the past.  Germany too used to be good before the 1930s.

    You seem to be stuck on a first step to figuring something out.

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  • Fri, Dec 11, 2020 - 3:24pm

    Adam Taggart

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: May 25 2009

    Posts: 7556

    1

    Crack-Up Boom

    Steve -

    Dr Paul said "crack-up boom":

    • A crack-up boom is the crash of the credit and monetary system due to continual credit expansion and price increases that cannot be sustained long-term.
    • In the face of excessive credit expansion, consumers' inflation expectations accelerate to the point that money becomes worthless and the economic system crashes.
    • The term was coined by Ludwig von Mises, a noted member of the Austrian School of Economics and personal witness to the damages of hyperinflation.

    (source: Investopedia)

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  • Tue, Dec 15, 2020 - 2:59pm

    #17
    agitating prop

    agitating prop

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    Motts

    But America has become way too rotted out. Fascists control "truth" and image. Your money cannot compete with their funding and control. Fascism will grow until the whole thing is destroyed. Talk to an honest lawyer who has worked as a lawyer for the last 30 years (or a real journalist) and listen to what they say about the changes. You seem to be stuck in an America-golden ages of the past. Germany too used to be good before the 1930s.

    You seem to be stuck on a first step to figuring something out.--Motts

    As someone who moved back to Canada from the States in 2003, in part to remove myself from what I saw as encroaching fascism--a perfect merging of state and corporations, a la Mussolini, I don't think I am stuck in the fifties at all, nor am I just figuring things out.

    I've lived in Europe, the Caribbean, for a short time in England, the U.S and my home country is Canada.

    I admire the economic system of co-operatives in the Basque region and would like to see it duplicated world wide.

    I favor neither current party in the U.S. Biden could be as much a problem as Trump. They are both corporatists. It's a good cop, bad cop situation.

     

     

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  • Sat, Dec 19, 2020 - 12:11pm

    #18
    capesurvivor

    capesurvivor

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    Joined: Sep 12 2008

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    1

    It’s tough to fight entropy over the long run.

    Marxists, right wing fascists, and even the well-intentioned will take their shots at it, though.

    Down here in the cheap seats it will be watch your six and be prepared, like survivors throughout history have done.

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  • Sat, Dec 19, 2020 - 1:15pm

    #19
    alanrgreenland

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    Great Thread!

    This may be the best comments thread I've read on PP this year.  Thanks to Mots for setting the tone (and shifting the focus, properly), and to all who chimed in with respectful and enlightened comments.  My faith in this "tribe" has been restored today.

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  • Mon, Jan 18, 2021 - 6:59am

    #20
    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

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    Joined: Jun 04 2012

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    An appropriate, thought provoking read to contemplate on this day honouring MLK.

    https://canadianpatriot.org/2021/01/17/for-martin-luther-king-day-let-us-end-his-second-assassination/

    We stand at a moment which is shaped by a great hope for a new set of relationships based on the potential alliance between western cultures increasingly purged of the Deep State and Eastern nations led by Russia, China and the Belt and Road Initiative, let us remember the words of Martin Luther King Jr in his August 1967 speech titled “Where do We go from Here?”

    “I want to say to you as I move to my conclusion, as we talk about “where do we go from here?” that we must honestly face the fact that the movement must address itself to the question of restructuring the whole of American society…

    Now, don’t think you have me in a bind today. I’m not talking about communism. What I’m talking about is far beyond communism. …Communism forgets that life is individual. Capitalism forgets that life is social. And the kingdom of brotherhood is found neither in the thesis of communism nor the antithesis of capitalism, but in a higher synthesis. It is found in a higher synthesis that combines the truths of both. Now, when I say questioning the whole society, it means ultimately coming to see that the problem of racism, the problem of economic exploitation, and the problem of war are all tied together. These are the triple evils that are interrelated…

    And I must confess, my friends, that the road ahead will not always be smooth. There will still be rocky places of frustration and meandering points of bewilderment. There will be inevitable setbacks here and there. And there will be those moments when the buoyancy of hope will be transformed into the fatigue of despair. Our dreams will sometimes be shattered and our ethereal hopes blasted. We may again, with tear-drenched eyes, have to stand before the bier of some courageous civil rights worker whose life will be snuffed out by the dastardly acts of bloodthirsty mobs. But difficult and painful as it is, we must walk on in the days ahead with an audacious faith in the future….

    When our days become dreary with low-hovering clouds of despair, and when our nights become darker than a thousand midnights, let us remember that there is a creative force in this universe working to pull down the gigantic mountains of evil, a power that is able to make a way out of no way and transform dark yesterdays into bright tomorrows. Let us realize that the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice.”

    In his closing remarks to the 1999 jury trial that found King to be a victim of a vast conspiracy, Martin’s son Dexter King left a challenge to all who would come into contact with this news:

    The question now is, “What will you do with that?” We as a family have done our part. We have carried this mantle for as long as we can carry it. We know what happened. It is on public record. The transcripts will be available; we will make them available on the Web at some point. Any serious researcher who wants to know what happened can find out.”

     

    Matthew Ehret is the Editor-in-Chief of the Canadian Patriot Review , Senior Fellow at the American University in Moscow, BRI Expert on Tactical talk, and has authored 3 volumes of ‘Untold History of Canada’ book series. In 2019 he co-founded the Montreal-based Rising Tide Foundation. This article was recently adapted into a short video found here.

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  • Mon, Jan 18, 2021 - 7:50am

    MarkM

    MarkM

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    Where do we go?

    That is the burning question. Thanks for the article.

    As history has shown us, repeatedly, anyone that is capable of uniting the masses is a threat to .gov. They have always been dealt with accordingly. We have seen it in the past and in the present. We saw it with Ron Paul and Tulsi Gabbard. Those forces in the government have been in hyperdrive the last few years. Many more eyes have been opened. Where do we go from here?

    In my opinion, Barack Obama and MLK should not be mentioned in the same breath, for obvious reasons.

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