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Re: remembrance…hope…

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  • Tue, Oct 20, 2009 - 12:45am

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: remembrance…hope…


ao and cloud, it seems you’re partially fighting the old pre-crash left/right conservative/liberal fight.  Can you see how in fighting against dialectic you are playing the dialectic quite well…standing defensively against cheap love or new age stuff in order to carve your island for yourself but end up being so defensive to love and inner truth that you squelch it? I post a couple videos that try to provide a brief moment of rest, inspiration, tenderness, something to be hopeful about and suddenly you’re bitter about national politics and political correctness!?

To automatically bucket what I’ve said in the cheap love and new age buckets violates me, exhibits no curiosity or questioning to find out what I’m talking about, but just allows you to maintain your defensive stance against the pernicious political programming we’ve been subjected to.  Much of what you’re associating with love has nothing to do with it. NAMBLA is a sado-masochistic, narcissistic structure of using others to meet primitive needs stemming from past abuses and harms.  It’s not love at all, despite their use of the word…don’t let their bastardization of it turn you against it because it’s our #1 command!  Nor are Oprah and Phil useful examples of the psychological community.  Nor am I claiming native societies were utopian…there’s no question there was plenty of violence.  But for you to bucket appreciation for their culture into “politically correct” programming is dialectical either/or thinking…and pathetic really given how hollow, fragmented, impaired, violent, heartless, abusive our culture is and what we could’ve learned from the communities they had (sustainable, communal, grounding, not violating the 3 E’s).  Notice how your labeling it PC allows you to escape the facts…I asked specifically about children of the Sioux Nation and whether they would demonstrate the same possessiveness and envy of white kids with consumerist parents…I’d be curious about the Mandans, the Iroquois, the Cherokee as well…you avoid the opportunity to consider these details by bucketing the whole thing with the label “PC programming.” The dialectic is so powerful–trains you to reject some good things because they’re associated with “those people.”

[quote=ao]With regards to France and Germany in 2009 vs. 1949, I think that if you asked any citizen of that country, they’d tell you they are much better off.  There has no been a war between those countries in that time span (unlike the previous centuries when there were constant conflicts), their borders are secure yet open to free movement in either direction, they have a much higher standard of living, they have more economic and political security, there is better education for all socioeconomic levels, they have plentiful food and other essentials, etc., etc.[/quote]

This is truly bizarre to see on  First, have you asked anyone in those countries?  Most Germans think not too kindly of the US occupation of their country.  Most French have extreme contempt for the US given our claim that we saved them and want them to worship us now (and we’ve lost our appreciation for them saving us from the Brit royal family…too bad we’ve been reprogrammed to make fun of them and support the evil crown). But more importantly, we know “standard of living” has been an illusion in a credit-inflated economy as holistic values have been replaced by consumption metrics. Economic security?  We know all our standards are going to plummet.  Political security?  What til you see what’s coming. Better education? Wow.  Checkout the videos on the other threads about stupid americans despite the billions in education spending.  A few hundred years ago to gain entrance to Columbia you had to have the 4 gospels memorized in latin.  Today you just take the irrelevant SAT. Plentiful food and essentials?  Yep…as a result of a system dependent on exponential growth, but it’s all subject to corporate control whereas we used to grow it ourselves and have security based on local community rather than top-down mega institutions that render us helpless if something happens to the system.  




Sorry to have hijacked your thread and cause it to depart from what you meant it to be.  I could go into a long point by point but in the absence of face to face personal communication, I think there’s too much room for misinterpretation so I’ll keep this briefer than I would like.  I’m not sure what you meant by “being defensive to love and inner truth”.  The English word, ‘love’, unfortunately, means almost nothing since it is so broad and open to interpretation.  Let me be more specific.  The eros form of love, in the absence of the storge, phileo, and agape forms of love, while exhilirating in the short term, tends to be destructive in the long term if it is the only form present.  I think the love you are referring to is the agape form but the so-called free love was more the eros form, somewhat in isolation.

With regards to “remembrance”, does my form of remembrance have to be your form to be valid?  I wrote about what was significant to me.  Sorry if it offended you.

With regards to NAMBLA, I think you grossly misinterpreted what Cloudfire said and I’m absolutely certain that she recognizes that that isn’t love at all.

With regards to the Native American cultures, I think you again misinterpreted what was said.  I too have significant experience with the Apache culture, spent time on a Crow reservation, and live in an area populated by the Chippewa.  Native American cultures are no better or no worse than any other … they have their weak points and their strong points.  They have all the same basic human failings.  I think you’ve overidealized their positive virtues just as I think you look at European culture in an overly negative manner.  And applying the “those people” label was really unfair and I think a bit beneath your normally high standards.      

I have plenty of curiosity about what you say.  Your writings are one of the reasons I follow this board so closely.  You’re obviously highly intelligent and think outside the box.  So how about giving some more concrete and substantial explanations of what you’re trying to state.  It may be my shortcoming but so far it all strikes me as rather abstract and theoretical.  How about real world examples of application and success?  I’m open to learning.

With regards to the German and French issue, most of our family is still in Germany.  Quite frankly, they were very, very happy to be occupied by the Americans as compared to the Soviets.  They absolutely loved JFK and appreciated the protection Americans offered.  They genuinely liked the American people.  However, like so many others, when there was no longer a threat, they began to resent our presence (as I would also if there were foreign occupiers of the USA).  I personally think it’s time we move out.  And there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that they are far, far better off now than in 1949.

The French?  Hmm ….  I can get myself into trouble here with the us versus them business.  From the time the three French warships abandoned the Bonhomme Richard  to let John Paul Jones duke it out alone with the Serapis they just haven’t been reliable allies.  Yes, we bailed them out of WW 1, WW 2, and Vietnam (we were providing 90% of their logistical support by the time of the fall of Dien Bien Phu and they probably could have held it if they listened to us) but we’ve never asked them to worship us.  It’s interesting how the American GIs recognized a profound difference between the French (our allies) and the Germans (our enemies) as expressed in Citizen Soldier.  This is their words, not mine.  They found the Germans to be more like us than the British, Dutch, Italians, French, etc.  They found them to be hard working and clean and once the surrender occurs, they were surprisingly warm and friendly.  The French, on the other hand, they found lazy, sullen, resentful, etc.  Again, please don’t accuse me of the us vs. them business.  I’m just relating what the America GIs expressed to Stephen Ambrose.  And while they provided some assistance during the Revolutionary War, there is no way in hell they were responsible for freeing us from the British royal family.  That would have happened with or without them. 

While I agree with what you say about the quality of education nowadays (for example, George Washington, one of the lesser brains among the founding fathers, knew Latin, Greek, and Hebrew, astronomy, surveying, etc. at age 14 at a level far above students of today), that only applied for the wealthy who were able to get an education.  The average German or French peasant did not have the opportunity for a university education like they do now.  The Germans were impoverished to an incredible level.  What do you think drove the mass German migrations to this country?

And isn’t there a bit of the us vs. them attitude in your contempt for corporate America?  While I’m no apologist for them, if I would play the devil’s advocate, they have had a little to do with the standard of living we’ve enjoyed in recent generations.

Actually, I fully believe in the duality of the universe, Good and Evil, yin and yang, and the ultimate resolution of that dichotomy through