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    Post-Coronavirus: Getting ‘Back To Work’ Won’t Be Easy

    While easy to say, it's complicated to do.
    by Adam Taggart

    Saturday, May 23, 2020, 8:54 AM

America and other countries around the world who have flattened their infection curves are now starting the process of “getting back to work”.

In the process, we are all finding out that, while easy to say, it’s complicated to do.

Who, exactly, is allowed to go back to work when, and under what conditions? What will the new health safety guidelines be? And how will they be implemented and enforced?

Not surprisingly, we’re seeing mixed results so far: some good, some bad, some egregious.

We will get our countries ‘back to work’. How gracefully we’ll do it remains an open question.

Don’t forget to get your free download of Peak Prosperity’s book Prosper!. Given its relevance to preparing for any kind of crisis, pandemic or otherwise, Chris and I are now making it available to the world for free during the covid-19 lockdown.

To download your free copy, click here.
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38 Comments

  • Sat, May 23, 2020 - 10:44am

    #1
    Gamma Geek

    Gamma Geek

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    Joined: May 16 2017

    Posts: 8

    2+

    More solutions!

    Another winner!  What do you know -- PP shares more solutions!  We plan to implement those simple work-place solutions as of yesterday -- thank you!  And so fun to see the world catching onto the "Honey Badger".

    And for those new comers -- here is the video of the Honey Badger, Stoffle:

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  • Sat, May 23, 2020 - 11:00am

    #2
    lunableu22

    lunableu22

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    Joined: Oct 19 2011

    Posts: 50

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    Is Chris going to address this elephant?

    If the gummint is basing our futures on this test, WTF?

    https://robinwestenra.blogspot.com/2020/05/what-is-pcr-test-they-use-for-covid19.html

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  • Sat, May 23, 2020 - 12:05pm

    #3

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 776

    4+

    Discussing "Beliefs"

    Like some here I'm sure, I've been wondering what drives the people who are protesting what to me, are sound scientific measures to prevent getting infected. Chris has discussed "beliefs" and how people cling to them even in the face of facts.

    The New Republic has an interesting article about this:

    https://newrepublic.com/article/157773/pandemic-driving-conservative-intellectuals-mad

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  • Sat, May 23, 2020 - 12:09pm

    #4

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 776

    2+

    Missouri Hairstylist Worked While Symptomatic?

    Springfield area.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/23/us/missouri-hairstylist-coronavirus-trnd/index.html

    Looks like the hair stylist covered all the bases, mask for them and the customer, as well as detailed contact tracing. These will continue as we open further up.

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  • Sat, May 23, 2020 - 6:03pm

    gallantfarms

    Status: Member

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    Goat and pawpaw 'test positive' for COVID-19 in Tanzania

    Tanzanian President John Magufuli has poured scorn on coronavirus test kits imported to his country after saying that a goat and a pawpaw had returned positive results for COVID-19.

     

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  • Sat, May 23, 2020 - 7:24pm

    #6
    lunableu22

    lunableu22

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    Joined: Oct 19 2011

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    PCR Tests not made for diagnosis; PCR is a manufacturing technique for use in labs

    https://robinwestenra.blogspot.com/2020/05/what-is-pcr-test-they-use-for-covid19.html

    Here's a quote:

    "...in conclusion, finish this sentence: “The PCR test for Corona is as good as…”
    His reply made me laugh. I didn’t know I still could laugh.
    “It’s as good as that Scientology test that detects your personality and then tells you need to give all your money to Scientology. “

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  • Sat, May 23, 2020 - 8:24pm

    #7
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Joined: May 17 2017

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    North Dakota Governor

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/23/politics/doug-burgum-north-dakota-face-masks/index.html

     

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  • Sat, May 23, 2020 - 9:46pm

    sofistek

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 02 2008

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    PCR

    I don't know what the point of the article is. The virus is real and is killing or damaging a lot of people (check out excess deaths). Also, the idea that increased testing is bound to result in more cases doesn't fit with the experience here in New Zealand.

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  • Sat, May 23, 2020 - 9:53pm

    #9
    lunableu22

    lunableu22

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    PCR

    The point of the article is:  using PCR to test for SC2 is a good way to get inaccurate results, since the technology is being used for a purpose for which it was never designed or intended.  GIGO

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  • Sat, May 23, 2020 - 11:49pm

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2035

    3+

    don't work when sick

    Yeah my scientific recommendation for this one is - don't work when sick.

    People are used to doing this.  (People are also used to mostly-ignoring it when others do this).  This will require a period of adjustment.

    Fortunately, we are the product of a civilization based on western rational thought, and we have all the tools we need to make the necessary adjustments.

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 3:00am

    sofistek

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 02 2008

    Posts: 670

    PCR

    That may be the claim but testing in New Zealand seemed to be reasonably accurate. Otherwise we wouldn't have achieved the results we had. E.g. if we didn't have a reasonable picture, through testing, of the scale and spread of the infections then our actions probably wouldn't have had the impact they appear to have had. Maybe we got lucky but I find it hard to believe that so many doctors have been mistaken, across the globe. No test is 100% accurate but the PCR test seems reasonable, at least in our testing labs.

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 8:27am

    #12
    Chit

    Chit

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    No longer infectious after 11 days?

    The sample size of 73 is relatively small. Let's wait for the paper to be published for an assessment.

    https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/covid-19-patients-no-longer-infectious-11-days-after-getting-sick-research-shows

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 11:27am

    drbrucedale

    drbrucedale

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    I don't understand the reference to PCR as a test?

    I don't understand the reference to PCR use in detecting the coronavirus as a "test for which it was not designed."  PCR is short for "polymerase chain reaction" and it is a method widely used in molecular biology. It is not a test in and of itself, but simply a method that might be used in many different tests or as a part of a lab protocol for some purpose other than a test. Here is what Wikipedia has to say about PCR. Just because the coronavirus test uses PCR is no reason, taken alone, to believe that the test won't work.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymerase_chain_reaction

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 12:31pm

    #14
    lunableu22

    lunableu22

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    More PCR--this is what we are basing our numbers on? And threatening vaccines over???!!!

    Here's another snippet from the article:

    "PCR for diagnosis is a big problem,” he continues. “When you have to amplify it these huge numbers of time, it’s going to generate massive amounts of false positives. Again, I’m skeptical that a PCR test is ever true.”

    “Kary did not invent a test. He invented a very powerful manufacturing technique that is being abused. What are the best applications for PCR? Not medical diagnostics." (Emphasis mine).

     

    Furthermore, the vaccine they are attempting is mRNA which has been shown to elicit a cytokine storm in vaccinees when they are exposed to the virus in the wild.  This is  the "science" that Fauci and Gates are pushing.

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 2:09pm

    #15
    Andy_S

    Andy_S

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    Joined: Jan 27 2020

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    WHY AMERICA will NOT BEAT this VIRUS - Special Characteristics of the Country

    America's strengths are great most of the time. In a pandemic they become an actual liability. A very insightful article on this is below-
    "Is America too libertarian to deal with the coronavirus?" - Link below-

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/5/22/21256151/coronavirus-pandemic-american-culture-keith-humphreys

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 2:53pm

    Mots

    Mots

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    PCR

    RE: "the technology is being used for a purpose for which it was never designed or intended."

    Technology developments don't give a rat's ass for the "purpose" or intentions of any inventor, designer, engineer, manufacturer, or politician.  Every new discovery (such as amplification of DNA sequences) is used as a building block to create ever more complicated and powerful new technologies.

    The ELISA (Enzyme Linked Immuno Sorbant Assay) test that relies on antibody specificity for selectivity has all kinds of false positives and negatives.  The PCR based techniques rely on specific hybridization of nucleic acid sequences, with varying degrees of "stringency" depending on the conditions used, length of DNA strand etc. and have all kinds of false positives and negatives.

    So, what do we do?  Wear a mask and take hydroxychloroquine/Zn at the first sign of trouble and prepare by remaining as healthy as possible.

    The two advances which have improved human health more than all the doctors who have ever lived and more than all the hospitals that have ever been built are:
    1. better nutrition, to allow generation of strong antibody response (it helps to eat well, with enough protein, our ancestors did not)
    2. better sanitation, wash hands with soap, follow antiseptic techniques when dealing with infections (where have we heard that before?) and drink clean water

    RE: The mRNA vaccines and "the 'science' that Fauci and Gates are pushing.  You got me there.  Chris admitted that he doesnt understand how that works (naked mRNA in the blood does wonderful things without side effects?).  I dont understand the mechanism (mRNA gets inside cells and is translated, all without triggering weird things-the study mentioned that 20% of patients got so sick that they had to stay in the hospital, duh lets gloss over that and ignore it because it interferes with Fauci's fame and fortune).  Fauci doesnt understand shi* and Gates, certainly doesn't know squat.  We need to minimize the effects of shi* and squat teams like these guys in our future communities.

    No need to chit chat crap intricacies of techniques that we dont have basic understanding of.  I hope that we have better things to do.
    I have plants waiting outside.

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  • Mon, May 25, 2020 - 1:41am

    #17
    French connexion

    French connexion

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    French connexion said:

    Happy Memorial weekend for you. I would just like to say that the debate here in France about the "usefulness" of Hydroxycloroquine is beginning to heat up. By that I introduce a new name to watch (ie someone important) - a doctor and previous Minister of Health in France, Philippe Douste-Blazy who has taken up the gauntlet (meaning that he has accepted the challenge to a duel by picking up the glove thrown down on the ground). When someone "respectable" starts saying the truth which only bothers others who complain about current conditions affecting their affecting their work or profession - it gives a nice opportunity for others to join the movement. I have seen several recent videos where he talks about all the points many of us have been saying for some time: that the studies used against the usage of HCQ do not use HCQ until the person is in the hospital and on oxygen - USELESS; that there are huge amounts of money in the balance to be made - we have seen two jump starts to the stock market using Gilead and Moderna - he talked about this - versus the very simple, inexpensive HCQ which can give intestinal pain and diarrhea; he also talks about the pressure that medical journals Lancet, New England... who complain that they are pressured to publish studies which arrive at previously decided results - and they do not see how they can remain credible under the economic pressure being applied. I saw three short clips, mostly on LCI - the French information channel. I bring this up not to prove anything - but just to say that perhaps we have reached the point where some people will "flip". Like change their tune vis-à-vis HCQ.

    We have in France something called https://www.conseil-etat.fr/le-conseil-d-etat/missions

    This body of persons has the power to strike down government laws - forcing the government to back down. They have just given the government their third such measure since the beginning of this crisis. They ordered the government to reinstate the right to assemble for a religious ceremony. We had mass on Sunday. Again I am not making the point about mass - but about the fact widely reported - like every time I turned on my telephone - that the couple

    https://www.lemonde.fr/les-decodeurs/article/2020/03/27/coronavirus-et-hydroxychloroquine-le-couple-buzyn-levy-cible-de-publications-mensongeres_6034663_4355770.html

    Buzyn/ Levy quit the Conseil d'Etat where they were advisors. So one does not know if they were kicked out - as this same body struck down the interdiction (from the government) for a doctor to prescribe HCQ for a patient if COVID-19 is the reason for the prescription. The State has NO RIGHT in the manner. Buzyn was Minister of Health - and still wants to be mayor of Paris, her husband was in charge of INSERM who construsted the P4 laboratory in Wuhan under the direction of the pervious French government. As we say in French now "Wait and See."

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  • Mon, May 25, 2020 - 4:20pm

    #18

    Wayne Grow

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    Posts: 8

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    Clarification?: HCQ was administered within 48 hours of diagnosis per the Lancet study Methods

    Dr M-- upon reviewing the Lancet study my electrical engineer father with a fine nose for detail noted that the study designers did have some degree of control for timing of treatment administration:

    In the report summary on Page 1, second paragraph, Methods:
    “Patients for whom one of the treatments of interest was initiated more than 48 h after diagnosis or while they were on mechanical ventilation,
    as well as patients who received remdesivir, were excluded.”
    And again on Page 3, Study design:
    “Patients who received treatment with these regimens starting more than 48 h after COVID-19 diagnosis were excluded.”
    “Thus, we defined four distinct treatment groups, in which all patients started therapy within 48 h of an established COVID19 diagnosis…”
    Granted, by the time you get sick enough to go to the hospital, get tested and fall within 48 hours of getting your positive result back that you are much further down the clinical course than we would like for testing antiviral effectiveness of these treatments. None the less, I don't think we can say they did not control at all for timing of administration.
    Thank you for 10 plus years of life changing work sir. Cheers and strength to all.

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  • Mon, May 25, 2020 - 4:51pm

    #19

    sand_puppy

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    HCQ started 48 hrs after diagnosis = 12-18 days into infection

    In the USA, patients are not admitted to the hospital until they require supplemental oxygen administration to keep their O2 saturations in the 90%s.  This hypoxia stage begins about 7-10 days into the symptomatic phase of illness and about 12-18 days after the time of infection if pre-symptomatic phase is included.  So in the USA, hospitalization typically happens in the mid to late second week of illness.

    So 48 hours after diagnosis in admitted patients USUALLY means sometime in the second week of illness.  So mid to late stage 2.

    Outpatient health department testing still is taking 3-5 days. Add a day to decide you are sick and another 1-2 days to get a doctors order for the test, then 3-5 days of wait for results -- and you have a weeks delay.

    Most hospitals now have an in house test that is done within an hour--while the patient is still in the ER.  But this study started in December, a time when most hospitals could NOT do a PCR on the same day.  (Patients were given a clinical diagnosis of COVID without a PCR.)  Did the study authors consider this clinical diagnosis the "time of diagnosis" or was it when the PCR test came back several days later?  Doesn't say.

    To me, the time frame for admission to the study looks very uncertain and very delayed.

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  • Mon, May 25, 2020 - 5:33pm

    #20

    Boomer41

    Status: Bronze Member

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    Posts: 125

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    Time to End the Lockdown

    I submit it is reckless to continue the lockdown, when it has already achieved its stated purpose of flattening the curve.
    We were told we should all stay home. Businesses were ordered to close. Millions lost their jobs. All to avoid overwhelming the emergency services. Well, that has been achieved. Except in a few hot spots such as NYC, hospitals are not even at capacity. Flattening the curve does not alter the area under the curve. i.e. the number of deaths does not change - only the timing.
    The projected death rate is now proven to have been grossly overestimated. Even counting every death in hospital as a Covid death, the numbers have been nothing like the scary numbers we were told at the beginning.
    Since the Covid-19 coronavirus is a novel virus and nobody has any antibodies or resistance, eventually we are all going to be infected. So, given that there is no guaranteed cure and no vaccine in the foreseeable future, what exactly are we achieving by cowering at home? We are delaying the date at which we become infected. That is all.
    For the very old and those with pre-existing health problems, that might translate into a prolongation of life and is therefore worthwhile. However, for the young and healthy with a small risk of death, self quarantine is pointless. They should get back to work ASAP.
    The damage to the economy is already incalculable. the results of the lockdown will resonate for years. Many, many businesses will never re-open. Major industries such as tourism, restaurants, airlines and cruise ships will probably take a decade or more to recover, if they survive at all.
    It is becoming more and more obvious that there is a political motive behind the lockdown. Politicians are using fear to increase government control. But I suspect that they have overplayed the fear card. All talk about ’saving lives’ by continuing the lockdown is just talk. As previously discussed lives won’t be saved. At best the onset of illness might be delayed. At the same time, people are delaying treatment on other serious illness because they are afraid to go to the hospital.
    Most politicians have never had a proper job. Almost none have even the slightest idea what it takes to run a business. They don’t even vaguely understand how a month without sales and the resultant negative cash flow can mortally wound a small business. I imagine they believe that after they declare the lockdown over, everything will just go straight back to normal; whereas millions of small businesses will have gone for good, taking the dreams and life savings of their owners with them. More and more people, deprived of their income, their job or both are becoming very angry and dissatisfied.
    The sooner the government gets out of the way and allows us to make up our own minds about how to handle the situation, the better.

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  • Mon, May 25, 2020 - 6:09pm

    #21
    Chrisboersma

    Chrisboersma

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    Joined: Feb 25 2020

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    Mandeep HCQ study - French Interview

    My comments:

    Mandeep's Hospital has a very close relationship with Gilead (being first to try Remdesivir).  I doubt they just "thought" Remdesivir was bias the result (pretty sure they tested it).  In my opinion, the results for Remdesivir were negative (given the comment that the "drug was given selectively and compassionately").  HCQ was also given selectively.... Also, how do T. Fauci's comments relate to a medical research paper variable selections?

    Besides the massive flaws, the stats in the analysis are quite insightful in terms of:

    BMI / Age
    COPD / Heart conditions
    Race (Asian = -30% / Black&Hispanic = +40%)
    Statins / ACE-Inhibitors (author's theory) - although these would be highly correlated with other variables in the study (eg. BMI).

    Interview

    http://www.francesoir.fr/opinions-entretiens-societe-sante/interview-exclusive-mandeep-mehra-lhydroxychloroquine-pas-efficace

    [TRANSLATED w/ GOOGLE]

    FS = New Paper FranceSoir | MM = MD Mandeep Mehra

    FS: You came to this study from a cardiovascular point of view when there are other drugs which are being examined in the treatment of Covid 19. Why did you not include them in your study? For example, why was Remdesivir not included?

    MM: We excluded Remdesivir after observing that we only had 276 patients with this drug and we thought it would bias the analysis because this drug was only given selectively and compassionately at the time- the. In addition, the study initiated by NIAID on Remdesivir was in progress. The results of this study published today show a low impact on mortality and a shorter recovery time , which had been announced by Tony Fauci for several weeks. As a result, we removed Remdesivir.

    FS: Do you have the data for Remdesivir?
    MM: Yes, we have the data, but the number of patients is too small for us to be able to conclude in one way or another.

    ...

    MM: With 276 patients on Remdesivir, this is too low to allow us to test all the factors and criteria. But that said, yes, we could look at r.

     

     

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  • Tue, May 26, 2020 - 2:32am

    French connexion

    French connexion

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    Cooking the Books

    Rather than publish twice I refer to a rough translation from an interview on BFM tv - a French information channel.

    My only goal on this blog is to help with what I can do - partly out of a selfish desire to find a solution to this mess before a vaccine is imposed upon us.

    I live in France, but my opinion, which may surprise you - I feel that the solution can only come from the USofA - at least for France - or alternatively to further distance ourselves from the American Way - from what we used to call Capitalism.

     

    https://www.peakprosperity.com/forum-topic/hydroxychloroquine-vs-the-globalist-deep-state/page/24/#post-566630

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  • Tue, May 26, 2020 - 7:21am

    Spiro

    Spiro

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    Spiro said:

    So now in France they halted the administration of HCQ, justifiable? Result of big pharma lobby?

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexledsom/2020/05/26/france-says-no-to-prescribing-hydroxychloroquine-after-lancet-study/#2ca2cc9a24b5

     

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  • Tue, May 26, 2020 - 10:43am

    Mohammed Mast

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    End the lockdown?

    Well you are getting your wish. Lockdowns are ending.

    Yes the projected death rate was probably overestimated, yet it was a great bit worse than the flu, so far. I don't think we will know the true numbers for quite some time. There is likely to be at least one more wave and there is no telling if and when it will ever be gone or an effective vaccine becomes available. I think you and many others focus entirely on death rates and ignore the damage SC2 can cause to major organs which may be permanent. Flu "season" generally runs 8 months.We are 4 months into this pandemic. We have a long way to go.

    You use a great deal of emotionally charged language which is fine if backed up by facts. Some of the statements you make are not verifiable. Such as "there is a political motive behind the lockdown". One might say as Rahm Emannuel  said "never let a good crisis go to waste" but to state that the governors are using this for political motives is a stretch  and I would need to hear what those motives are. The statement "most politicians never had a proper job" is pure hyperbole. I have no idea what a "proper job" is. I also have not idea if that statement has any validity at all. You also say politicians have no idea about how this is affecting people and how there is a huge loss of revenue. Again hyperbole and in my view not true. They are quite well aware of loss of revenue which is why they are opening up. State and local governments are losing vast amounts of tax revenue. https://www.marketplace.org/2020/04/14/local-governments-lose-tax-revenue-covid19/

    If you google tax revenue lost to Covid 19 you will come up with 164,000,000 entries.

    I don't think you can blame all of this on the governments. We are dealing with something we have not dealt with in over 100 years. Was/is it being mismanaged? Yes in some ways and in some places. People like to point to Sweden but the numbers in Sweden are not very good. Sweden is sacrificing its elderly and immigrant populations and still the economy is not doing great. My leading indicator for the global economy is the BDI. It is near its lowest point in 5 years and shows little sign of going up.

    Some businesses and jobs are going away and that is a tragedy. My wife shut her business down 2 months ago. She had to because of the lockdown but though she is able to now she isn't. We take this very seriously which brings me to the last thing you said.  "The sooner the government gets out of the way and allows us to make up our own minds about how to handle the situation, the better."

    I have posted far too many times here on this and maybe some have missed it and some are tired of hearing it. Disclaimer; I am no fan of any government. That said the average IQ of Amerikaans is 98. That is not very high and is even more worrisome when you consider half of those are less than that. US high schools GRADUATE in any given year up to 25% of its students who are functionally illiterate. Critical thinking has been largely replaced by mythological, magical thinking. People are out on the streets ranting about a constitution they probably never read. Shopkeepers are being threatened and assaulted for requiring customers to wear a mask. (The Czech Republic lowered its R0 to .8 by requiring everyone to wear a mask in public). I posted a video of a Costco shopper who refused to wear a mask and had his cart taken away and asked to leave the store.

    You offer no quidelines for how to reopen. This is a pretty glaring omission. Chris posted a video of a company in China which has been open since Feb. In the video the supervisor outlines the procedures they are required to go through to be in operation. They are rational and effective. I truly wish, you have no idea how I wish. that average Amerikaans would be able to enact and adhere to similar protocols. I am betting the farm that is not possible. The following article touches on some of the problems. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/03/coronavirus-united-states-vulnerable-pandemic/608686/.

    There are no easy solutions. But as a member here since 2008 I am sure you are well prepared and resilient. I am sure you knew a Black Swan event was coming. Yes we will all rub elbows with SC2. I for one would like to see everyone do the thoughtful, rational compassionate, charitable things to keep others safe. Being a realist I understand that is unlikely to happen.

     

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  • Tue, May 26, 2020 - 6:09pm

    sofistek

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    make up our own minds about how to handle the situation

    Well, that doesn't work if each of us has a different idea of how to handle the situation. The lockdown may have flattened the curve but completely opening up will simply get the trajectory back to one which overwhelms heath systems. That the vast majority of us will eventually contract the virus is not the same as letting it run rampant, since an overwhelmed health system will result in far more deaths than a slow burn progression, where health systems do not get overwhelmed. Deaths, in an overwhelmed system would include deaths from other causes, which couldn't be treated in time or optimally, not just deaths directly from Covid-19 (and there would be more of these, also).

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  • Wed, May 27, 2020 - 4:41am

    #26
    dragonfishy

    dragonfishy

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    Important paper: SARS CoV2 uses same strategy as HIV to evade immune system

    SARS Cov2 uses same mechanism as HIV to evade the immune system, down regulates MHC antigens ... Makes a vaccine less likely, the research also mentions chloroquine increasing MHC expression making it easier for the immune system to find infected cells: article link: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.24.111823v1

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  • Wed, May 27, 2020 - 7:24am

    #27
    planfortomorrow

    planfortomorrow

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    3+

    Lies, damn lies...

    Chris, all I know is Hydroxychloroquine, w/z-pack and zinc works. I remember coming across this drug from way back when  I heard of this virus  back in January. I was talking to my wife about this before the hospital even opened their first unit with my wife running this unit. I was surprised and happy that this drug was used exactly as you have taught here. I would take it right now if I knew it had a lasting effect just like Trump has done. Why these knuckleheads don't get it or don't want to get it is because of greed, the almighty dollar.

    An aside: I believe a major cash give away is near, we must keep the delusion alive and make sure the consumer spends and keeps everything afloat. We will get a monthly check and hero's pay are my thoughts and whatever else is necessary to make the consumer whole again. We shall see but it will happen soon.

    Seeing the video you showed and the "Honey Badger" reference gave me a nice chuckle, I enjoyed it and felt good for you guys.

    All I care about is food, clothing, shelter and heat. The land will provide all that I need, I just know it. All I need is a stipends, and cash set aside for taxes. Back in the great depression it was the good farmers who lost it all because they couldn't pay the land taxes. That will not happen to me...Folks, I apologize that I haven't download the information or stats from the hospital. I respect my wife work place,  we don't know if we can exchange these managerial memo's so I won't. I can only express what I've observed and read. In our hospital we have only 8 patients with covid19. That is a far cry from when we started and for which we are very happy. I have worried every day for my Lady's health and being supportive is all I can do plus to take care of our home so when she comes back at the end of the day she is safe to just talk of her day or kick back and say nothing. Be safe, all of you. I'm with Chris, I am never catching this Virus and will wait to relax when a vaccine comes along so I will not change our pattern. Thank God we go up to our property every weekend. There we get to roll around and get things set up. This weekend I add the minerals to a huge plot that will be our garden of the future. I put in manure and compost last week. It will take me  two years to get the soil dancing with worms and bugs in the soil. I love turning the garden soil that nice rich look. it lust looks so great when wet. I am blessed with sandy loam, so easy to spade and turn over. I plan a cement block that shouldn't leach its chemicals in the soil. I'll use these blocks because the wood rots to quickly and could have chemicals in them. I will go raised beds except for strawberry's. I made large cages for them out of cedar (100x4) with a swing up door to keep all birds and critters out and we lift these to get at the strawberry's. I use a cedar stick to hold open the doors. Be well Folks...Peace

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  • Wed, May 27, 2020 - 11:13am

    #28

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 776

    1+

    Something I don't understand about HC

     I would take it right now if I knew it had a lasting effect just like Trump has done.

    Ok, I'm confused. When taking HC, is there a certain time period of taking it or is it used prophylactically, or do you take it when you first think you have the virus, then stop when you start getting symptoms?

    I don't understand Trump's comments about being almost done with the treatment.

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  • Wed, May 27, 2020 - 11:30am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 316

    2+

    dtrammel might help

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32344449/

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  • Wed, May 27, 2020 - 11:58am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 316

    1+

    Here's another one

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30296-6/fulltext

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  • Wed, May 27, 2020 - 12:01pm

    #31

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 2292

    8+

    PREP and PEP HCQ dosing

    Expanding on the link that Mohmmed Mast just put up and citing one basic science source article where the effective dose of hydroxychloroquine was found:

    PREP:  800 mg loading dose followed by 400 mg twice or three times weekly.  (This is for long-term steady state prevention.)

    PEP:   800 mg loading dose followed in 6 hours by 600 mg, then 600 mg daily for 4 more days.  (This is for a short-term course, after contact with a known sick person.  This was probably what Trump was doing as he had staff members who were diagnosed positive.)

    --------------------

    Hydroxychloroquine, a less toxic derivative of chloroquine, is effective in inhibiting SARS-CoV-2 infection in vitro

    Jia Liu, et al.

    .... In animals, both drugs (CQ and HCQ) share similar tissue distribution patterns, with high concentrations in the liver, spleen, kidney, and lung reaching levels of 200–700 times higher than those in the plasma10. It was reported that [the customary human dose] ("safe dosage ") of 6–6.5 mg/kg per day of HCQ sulfate could generate serum levels of 1.4–1.5 μM in humans11.  Therefore, with a [customary] safe dosage, HCQ concentration in the above tissues is likely to be achieved to inhibit SARS-CoV-2 infection.

    The usual Lupus and Rheumatoid arthritis dose is about 200-300 mg twice daily.  This dose should give the needed tissue levels that Liu et al found inhibited SARS-CoV2 growth in cell culture experiments.

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  • Wed, May 27, 2020 - 12:13pm

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 776

    2+

    Disagree With The Likelihood of Cash for the People

    I believe a major cash give away is near, we must keep the delusion alive and make sure the consumer spends and keeps everything afloat. We will get a monthly check and hero's pay are my thoughts and whatever else is necessary to make the consumer whole again. We shall see but it will happen soon.

    While at the start I agreed with you, I think that is no longer the case. The Fed's actions have been entirely about protecting the stockholders and the Market. Mitch McConnell in the Senate doesn't seem to care one bit whether the "People" survive this or not. In fact the more we go into debt the better.

    Massive unemployment has reversed and wiped out any small gains that working class people had for job benefits and pay raises. You see that in the emails that Chris has posted of companies telling their workers "We cut your pay and you should be happy you have a job".

    Also much of Wall Street is discovering this crisis is a once in a generational opportunity to profit.

    Now that corporations and the 1% have gotten over their panic, through massive infusions of government cash, that by the way, they won't have to pay back, the working class tax payer will, many on the Right have now turned to carrying about the deficit and talking about spending cuts.

    I also think that many Republicans, especially those at the top level are starting to worry that Trump isn't going to get reelected. They are going to start playing the "Let's make this crisis worse, so that the incoming Democrat Administration inherits something so bad, nothing they can do will prevent us from using it for the 2024 midterms".

    I also think Pelosi and the Democrats are scared of actually fighting dirty against the Republican effort to tank the recovery. They keep asking for meaningful measure to help the working class, then sabotaging it with things that have nothing to do with this crisis. Followed by folding when the Republicans say no.

    All that together makes me doubt we will see any really useful amount of additional money from the government until after January of 2021 and the Democrats win both the Senate and the White House. Neither of which are certain.

    Bottom line, we are on our own here, while a sizable minority is all set to almost guarantee a second wave in the next few months.

    ADDED:

    To further the argument I think top Republicans like McConnell believe that Trump won't get reelected and their best strategy is to wreck the economy before the Democrats get in, read this article.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/05/27/mconnell-strangles-states-so-much-quick-recovery-trumps-re-election/

    Not saying that all Republicans are this cynical but some of these people make me think I'm living in a "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" episode and the hellspawn have taken over.

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  • Wed, May 27, 2020 - 12:23pm

    stevedaly

    stevedaly

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 23 2020

    Posts: 35

    4+

    End the lockdown?

    End the lockdown?

    Sure.

    When everyone can have access to HCQ!

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  • Wed, May 27, 2020 - 3:49pm

    sofistek

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 02 2008

    Posts: 670

    4+

    HCQ prophylactic?

    dtrammel,

    In simple terms, I think Trump was taking a two week course because he had potentially been exposed to the virus and wanted to avoid contracting it, or to hit it early during the average two week incubation period.

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 12:17am

    #35
    dragonfishy

    dragonfishy

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 01 2011

    Posts: 18

    Life beginning to look very Pre COVID around here

    I live at Bondi Beach in Sydney Australia, cafes and restaurants are opening (with fewer tables further apart), people are walking around in greater numbers reminiscent of January 2020. Maybe 1 in 200 wearing a mask. Despite the messages at shops and supermarkets, the social distancing mojo is present, but looking quite relaxed. It's winter, but was a lovely sunny day today, so many people were keen to leave their kennels.

    Schools started back last week and already my local high school has closed after a suspected case was identified yesterday.  This is going to be very interesting. The complacency  I'm seeing suggests a big disconnect, the next 3 weeks are going to be very interesting to watch. Will we be able to return to a life more recognisable or not?

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 3:32am

    sofistek

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 02 2008

    Posts: 670

    Complacency

    The complacency in Australia is probably due to the run of low numbers of new cases. Here in New Zealand, I see the same, though numbers are even better here (14 of the last 17 days have seen no new cases, with only 1 on those other 3 days and one of those was likely a recovered cases diagnosed late). It's easy to believe that, right now, there is no virus circulating in New Zealand. We're still going to stay in Alert Level 2 for another couple of weeks, though, to make sure but I doubt people are taking the restrictions too seriously, apart from those that would be obvious.

    The complacency worries me because, at some point, we'll start opening the borders again and the virus will start creeping in. I haven't heard of any plan to slow the spread of the virus when that happens and any renewed lockdown will be hard to impose, nor would that be economically sound. We'd need to mandate the use of masks (along with a strong education campaign, as I've seen so many people with attrocious mask wearing habits in other countries, even health workers) allied to some social distancing and limited gatherings but haven't heard of any government plans along those lines. Thankfully, though masks have never been recommended here, they haven't been discouraged either, so there is a possibility of a policy change by claiming that the science now balances towards the benefits side. Let's hope so.

    If immunity through infection or vaccine turns out to be problematic, though, I haven't a clue what societies will eventually look like. Perhaps there will be regular waves of infection which kill less and less until only the least susceptible people or naturally immune people are left.

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 4:11am

    planfortomorrow

    planfortomorrow

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 28 2017

    Posts: 73

    planfortomorrow said:

    Tram, I have a new doctor because my last one wouldn't assure me she would ok this treatment. My new doctor supports my decision 100%. Tram, all I know is that if positive you are sent home, isolate and watch your symptoms. You do not necessarily get the shot at this time as most recover by isolating (confusing to me). This is the point my new doctor will prescribe these drugs for me at my request. For most they will go home and wait. I think as Chris does that the earlier the better and this is my red line to treatment. I have no clue why Trump said what he said. I think maybe he got tested positive and is a secret. It made no sense to me either. no sense. All I know is you take HDQ by mouth, it's a pill and treatment is 5 days? This I will find out when I talk to my doctor for the first time in person. I do not want to comment further until I find out for sure how all of this is going to work out after I talk this over with my doctor.

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  • Thu, May 28, 2020 - 5:21am

    planfortomorrow

    planfortomorrow

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 28 2017

    Posts: 73

    1+

    planfortomorrow said:

    Tram, we are not thinking the same at this point. NO WAY does either party wish to stop the consumers spending on anything. The good Folks are waiting for help and the consumer is the economy so they better not screw them twice, the crisis of 2008 and now. For many reason's neither party will want to put the economy in a nose dive. It would be better to have to much than not enough. Trump gets elected on the rise in the stock market. The consumers confidence will remain high so long as they have money coming in and their retirement accounts are gaining in value giving them the perception they will get to even and more. They have not been disappointed as I can see.

    I see $2400 again and hero's pay, no if's, and, or buts. Soon too. Once the checks that have been given out have been spent, then the next one better be in the mail.

    Summers make for the perfect climate for riots historically and I don't think in the Hot, Humid months that anyone who has been stripped bare of their income because of this Virus will handle the pressure of this to well as we go through the summer. There's a lot of unemployed people (usually the less than affluent) sitting on their porches doing nothing but drinking and bitching! Plus these Folks are hearing they will soon be evicted from their homes as has been reported lately especially when they were told that if we isolate and camp out at home all winter that things will turn around. This is a pressure cooker environment and it will get really steamy are my thoughts before it all explodes. Not a good thing so throw cash at it. It will cost way more if you don't so isn't worth the risk.

    Now, send a cop car to their homes to tell them to hush up! Man, that is the atmosphere for extreme violence. I don't like the police in environments like this, I have seldom seen a good outcomes when the cops intrude on a Man's right to have a few drinks at his homes porch. I'm NOT dissing police but they do go to places like this with an attitude and while everything is loud it's under control because everyone is bitching, all this Man's friends and neighbors. The cops are there to tell the Folks to shut up...please!... so that won't go well. Hopefully This won't be allowed to happen. Throw cash at it, it will cost much more if the cops intrude on that situation for sure.

    Mnuchin, Powell, Pelosi and Trump need the economy to stay the course, get Folks back to work and GET THE VACCINE  that makes this exponentially better. We'll see Brother but it's coming in my opinion. They will pacify whomever they have too.

    I know many here believe we are going into Inflation but their aren't enough Folks spending yet to chase the to few goods. Deflation will be around through 2021 for certain are my thoughts. I don't see very high Inflation for a good while. I heard Hyperinflation back in 2008 and it never really happened, we had subdued inflation except for food and things we eat and consume the most but it was in the packaging. A big box of Kellogg's cornflakes was 20% less content, that sort of inflation that the consumers felt. Gas or oil will never allow inflation to really cook until the reserves are back to norms and then we have all that production taken off line. So no, no inflation for a while. This is all a guess, of course. I never get everything right.

    Tram, I look in very short time horizons so I don't mute what is happening just in front of me. My goals are to survive one year and from that point on I have completed my 7 years goals. No debt, everything will be 7 years in the making, I understand how most things work. the experimenting has refined, my gardening skills, maintenance of trees, future trees from propagation so if one dies I have another orchard planted and ready for picking. I replant where the trees got injured and dies. I have not spent a dime on trees since my first batch were grown and producing successfully. From these tree's scrubs, bushes, etc... I have propagated exact clones so I get exactly what I want. I have planted many Willow trees as borders and shade and their so easy to propagate and grow so fast. That is good news for me. All it was was work and that's fun.

    Tram, I respect everyone, I have learned something if just a bit from every comment the good Folks have made here. For me, it's the cheapest best little site out there for the money. I like the diversity. I am not feeling like a tribe member for that is reserved for close family and friends. I tribed all my life and I know what it means so for those who never lived having a tribe then you good folks gravitate towards one. I have a great source of help from unselfish and hard working Folks. I maintain this relationship by sending everyone a giant food basket, great fruits and berries, and sometimes jars of things as a reminder at Christmas time that they are always welcome to join us, party and even enjoy our yearly fireworks show we have during the 4th of July week when my Lady and I spends 12 days at "THE ROOST", this is the name my Lady named our place when we first bought our property and when we built our chicken coup and 8 hens (layers). We want visitors who enjoy going back to their roots, do a little work while their there, carve their names in the trees or play whiffle ball in our little field of dreams where fences were put up so the kids could hit a 200 foot homer and we all get excited. Run the bases and are happy when grandpa can hit the fences too after pointimg like the Babe to centerfield! This was our long range plan and because of the gift of time was able to build it all up planning for our Cabin being built this year and next. Be good Tram, I don't have all the answers but I know what direction I'm going and I wish everyone their peaceful place. Peace...PS: I don't want to debate this but Trump isn't afraid at all of Biden because that knucklehead is going to bury himself. He's an idiot of that I have no doubts. So Trump will win's, keeps the Senate and I hope upon all hope takes the House. Pelosi has to go bye, bye. So, checks in the mail and the economy will be so much better by November that Trump might get a mandate victory if it does.

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