Podcast

Pure7 Chocolate

Julie MacQueen: Chocolate!

A case study in local investing
Sunday, September 17, 2017, 9:51 PM

In this week's podcast, Chris profiles Julie MacQueen, founder and CEO of Pure7 Chocolate.

Her story is that of the small entrepreneur, one who has sought to innovate a healthier way to enjoy one of life's tastiest foods. Chris and Julie talk about the journey of product development, as well as the challenges of starting up a business and engaging those interested in local investing.

Click the play button below to listen to Chris' interview with Julie MacQueen of Pure7 (33m:48s).

Transcript: 

Chris: Welcome everybody to this Peak Prosperity podcast. It is Tuesday, September 12, 2017. I am your host, of course, Chris Martenson. Health. Your health. Because, you know, one of the most important forms of capital we talk about at Peak Prosperity is living capital. Now that’s your body, that’s your health, that’s the food you're eating, that’s the ecosystem you're living in. Today, we’re gonna be talking with an exceptional woman with an exceptional story. We’re gonna be covering health, nutrition, and local investing all centered around chocolate. That’s right, chocolate. How all of these things come together, it’s a really fascinating story. And it’s a story of recovered health and sharing that wisdom with others, ultimately through chocolate made with the purest ingredients and love.

So we’re gonna find out about that today by talking with the founder and CEO of Pure7 Chocolate. That’s Julie McQueen. Hi Julie.

Julie: Hi, Chris.

Chris: Welcome to the program. Now, full disclosure, I’m an investor in Pure7, so that’s where the local investment angle comes in – very proud investor - so we’re gonna be talking about this amazing company with this amazing woman. So Julie, where do we start with this story? How about, you know what drew me to it first was really where you began in this story. So your own health part. So you didn’t wake up one day and say I’m gonna be in the chocolate business. You got there eventually. Where did it start?

Julie: Yeah, Absolutely not. I was a stay at home mom to four of my children, and we weren’t doing well health wise. We were sick. The family was sick, and I was at the doctors weekly with my kids. My son had just been diagnosed on the autism spectrum. My daughter was starting to rock back and forth and starting to stim. And so I was looking for answers, and I couldn’t find them. I tried everything. I tried homeopath, naturopath, supplements, all kinds of stuff, and the only thing that seemed to work for our health and reverse these systems was food. That’s all it was – food - good food. And when I noticed the symptoms starting to disappear in my children I started getting better at it and researching it and figuring out how to make it better for them. And we ended up landing on the GAPS diet, and did that very strictly, the GAPS diet. And I got better at it, and took it very seriously. It was my full-time job taking care of my kids and feeding them the right food and food that feeds the body for recovery and health. And I noticed the stimming and the rocking, that all disappeared within weeks. That all disappeared. My daughter, her rocking disappeared within one week.

Chris: Wow. So for our listeners, what is a GAPs diet?

Julie: The GAPS is a diet by Natasha Campbell McBride. It stands for Gut and Psychology Syndrome Diet. And she founded the diet when her own son was diagnosed on the autism spectrum. She’s a neuroscientist and started figuring out a way to help her own child recover from autism. And her child is fully recovered by following the GAPS diet.

Chris: And conventional medicine – where were the regular doctor’s in this story for you?

Julie: Actually, the regular doctor’s, they prescribed AVA therapies. They weren’t really a lot of - much help at all. Actually, they discouraged me from dieting, doing any type. They said it’s a waste of time. That’s why it took me so long. It took, probably after the diagnosis, it took me maybe a year, a year and a half before even attempting to try diet because I didn’t think it was effective. I didn’t think it would work. Something so simple as food I didn’t think it would. Food. That’s all it was. Food. I couldn’t believe it. I couldn’t believe within, actually, I couldn’t even say weeks. Chris, it was like a week. A week later my son’s ADHD diagnosis, it went away. I brought him back to the doctor a year later and he didn’t understand how that could happen. It’s food. We just ate the right food. We took away the refined sugars and all the processed foods and we ate real food. Food that’s nourishing, food that’s rebuilding the self. The GAPs study is all about gut repair. Your healing and feeling the gut. You're rebalancing your gut flora. And it’s amazing. It helps with depression, anxiety, all kinds of diagnosis. Attention problems, everything. So, I experienced it firsthand how effective that it was. And so we missed – the way that chocolate – I’ll keep going - the way that we stumbled upon chocolate is that we missed chocolate.

Chris: Who’s we?

Julie: Me. [Laughter] I. I really missed chocolate. And I was doing the GAPS diet myself. The whole family needed to do it to make sure the house was clean and safe for the kids because if I had – my processed foods which I was addicted to - I loved my carbs. I loved waking up and eating my whoopee pies and going to bed eating my hot fudge sundaes. So this was hard for me. This was really hard for me to do giving all of that up and doing it. I did it for my kids. I wanted – I don’t think I actually would have done this without my kids. I was truly – and I think it’s probably one of the biggest addictions that there is. Food. We’re addicted to our food. It’s easy. It’s easy food to eat.

Chris: And it’s been engineered to trigger our swallow reflexes, more cravings. It’s a science.

Julie: It’s is. They’ve got the sugars, the carbs that I loved. Honestly, for myself personally, it took me - even though they say after two weeks you stop your cravings. It took me a good year and a half before I could drive by my spots, my Starbuck’s, my Peet's Coffee, without – but you know how I dealt with it? I learned how to make real food and how to substitute. I guess the foods that I used to love and craved, I learned how to make them healthy. And then, when you eat real food this way for a while you start not wanting to go back to that old, the processed, because it doesn’t taste good anymore. You can taste the chemicals, you can taste the – it’s too sweet, it’s too – it tastes like chemicals. Really, my whoopie pies, I loved whoopie pies. So after about two and half years of being really strict GAPS diet, I'm like, you know what? I’m gonna have a whoopee pie. And I did. I went in to a café and I ordered my whoopie pie and I took one bite and I threw it away. It did not taste good to me anymore. My whoopie pies that I made with my almond flour and the way – I made them better. They taste much better to me. So I learned how to take the foods that I craved and turn them into real foods that nourished the body. And so that’s how I got into chocolate.

Chris: Right. You couldn’t go back to whoopie pie but you wanted that treat back in your life. You wanted something –

Julie: I love chocolate. I love chocolate. And it was my mission to create a shelf stable bar.

Chris: But it didn’t start there. What was your first experience? How did you start to introduce chocolate back into – what was your first taste of chocolate again?

Julie: Actually, it wasn’t great. Because I missed chocolate so much I was craving it. So I took cacao powder and some coconut oil on the stove, mixed it up with some honey on the stove and I drank it, and I made myself sick. I drank like half a cup of that and it was just too much for my body, too sweet, too much. But I was determined. I wanted a bar. I couldn’t believe that this was not out there in the world, that nobody had created this yet. I would go to Whole Foods every week. Every week I would look at those shelves and be like, why doesn’t this exist?

Chris: There must be a hundred chocolate bars -

Julie: There is.

Chris: - or two hundred. I don’t know. And you couldn’t find what you were looking for.

Julie: No. I could not find a bar that I felt good enough with the ingredients that I would eat and put in my body after all the work that I did I wasn’t willing to do that. There was soy, there was gluten dairy, soy, there was fillers, sugars, it was hard to find a bar without sugar. Even when I did there was it was chemicals and ingredients I couldn’t pronounce on the label. So I'm like, this is something that needs to happen. I’ve got to figure out how to bring a bar. I actually made it for me. I need to figure out how to make a bar for me. And I want that bar to be real. Like I don’t want – because I went to chocolatiers and asked how do you do this? They told me it can’t be done. How could this be done? You can’t take honey and put that in chocolate because that is ganache. It’s too high in moisture content, so that will not work.

Chris: Meaning? What do you mean not work?

Julie: It doesn’t work because it turns – it will seize. Chocolate will seize. It turns into this big, globby, brownie mess. There’s nothing you can do with it except throw it away. And I did actually go through batch after batch. I spend a lot of money, actually. Hundreds, thousands of dollars throwing chocolate batches away because it seized up on me. Yeah, those aren’t pretty days when that happened.

Chris: You're gonna make a bar of chocolate out of honey with honey sweetened and of course it’s a trickier process than sugar or unsweetened or something like that. Not unsweetened, I guess, or sweetened with Stevia or one of these other sweeteners like that. So what does chocolate making – most people don’t know this – I didn’t know this before I got involved. But there’s something called tempering.

Julie: You have to temper chocolate. I didn’t know that. I wasn’t a chocolatier.

Chris: What does tempering even mean?

Julie: Tempering is bringing the crystals together in the chocolate. And you have got to be able to temper. If you don’t temper – and when I first started making and I thought I was making chocolate and looked good to me, but after a week or two it started ballooning because I didn’t temper it the right way. Because honey sweetened chocolate is a hard way – it’s not the same – it’s a very difficult process to temper. But to keep your bar from ballooning, which means it turns kind of white and mushy - is what happens to it if it’s not tempered properly. You have to make sure you know how to temper it. So it took a while to figure that out how with honey because the moisture content is so high in the honey.

And I do need to say, before I forget, honey is important to me as a sweetener. That’s our only sweetener in my household because honey is so pure in its state. So I think that’s so important to mention. Honey as a sweetener – it’s as intended. It’s that simple. It’s food. It comes right straight from the hive and it’s food. You look at any other sweetener out there and it’s processed. Even coconut sugar which you know I like some of the chocolate out there that’s made with coconut sugar, but it’s processed. Even maple syrup, you take 50 gallons of maple syrup to sap and you boil it down into something that’s such a big hit to the body. It’s not in its natural state. It doesn’t spike the glucose levels. I feel great and stable and even . . . I don’t get the spikes, the sugar highs, with honey.

Chris: All right. So after a lot of investigation, experimentation, thousands of dollars of failed batches, which must have been an interesting moment for the garbage man - what is happening here – so eventually though you figured out how to temper chocolate properly with honey. It’s a bit of a trade secret, I guess, but so you finally got bars and these were for your own consumption, I guess, right?

Julie: It really was. And I guess I decided to share with the world. My mind kept racing at night how to package it up and how to distribute it and get it out into the hands of the GAPS people out there that were craving this too like I had been, that were on stricter diets. And it’s really exciting when I get a new GAPS or even Paleo customer out there because I know that they've – that they can indulge in chocolate again and feel good about it.

Chris: So what was your first sale? Do you remember?

Julie: I do. Yeah. When I started this company it was on a yard sale. I didn’t have the funds to start the company. And I took the money from my kids selling off their strollers and that kind of things. Their little belongings, baby stuff, and so I took the money from the sale of the yard sale – it was about $500 – and I bought a small tempering machine on eBay. It was a little table top tempering machine, and I was able to temper about – it was about four cases of chocolate – there’s twelve bars to our case. So I had four cases wrapped and ready to sell. And I walked it over, and I say this all the time – it’s kind of funny – it makes me laugh. I walked it over in my diaper bag. It’s actually nice – it’s a beautiful – it’s black so it’s kind of professional. I stuck it in the diaper bag and I walked it over to the store next to my house. It’s Fern’s. It’s a country store two houses away, and he took the whole line in which I was very excited about.

Chris: And are you still in Fern’s?

Julie: We’re still in Fern’s.

Chris: Fantastic.

Julie: They sell a lot actually. A lot of our bars in there.

Chris: So let’s talk about the bars themselves at this point. So, ingredients. How many ingredients are in there? Where do they come from? How do you do this?

Julie: Well, we’re really careful about the sourcing of our ingredients. I eat this. I put this in my body. Very careful about all my ingredients. All the ingredients are organic, they're fair trade and they are kosher certified. We sweeten just with honey, no other sweetener. Our bars have a pinch – our salted almond has Himalayan salt that we sprinkle on the back of the bar. All of our ingredients are just pure – pure in their form. And we temper our chocolate. Our heat never goes above 118, so we keep our temperatures low, too in our bars so we can get the most nutrition out of the chocolate. So ingredients matter. They're important to us.

Chris: And I’ve seen a lot of research lately that cacao has a whole wide variety of health benefits that we’re starting to understand which the temperature you mentioned –

Julie: - keeping the temperature low so you can get the most out of –

Chris: - all sorts of flavonoids and other things in there, and good things. So how’s the reception been in the GAPS community, the Paleo community? What kind of feedback do you get?

Julie: I get thank you’s. I love that. Thank you for creating something that I can eat, that I can enjoy that’s safe, that my kids can eat, and I get emails all the time from mothers that their children can now have something they can bring to birthday parties that they can indulge in now. So it’s nice to hear. It really is. And not only that, what actually really surprised me more than anything is a lot of our customers just really like honey. They like the taste of the honey in the bars. So it’s not just always health conscious consumers which might - it actually surprised me. We’re reaching a wider population than I ever imagined we would with our chocolate.

Chris: Well this is an important part of the story which is that, look, it’s a really confusing world to live in just trying to figure out my health insurance every year takes half my brain power. Just trying to do taxes and just trying to figure out what’s happening with my phone bill through AT&T, not to pick on them, I’m sure Verizon is just as bad, but AT&T is my carrier. But everything is complex. But what I love about your story, what drew me to it, was this idea that you were gonna through the hard work of figuring out how to keep all the junk out of people’s mouths so they don’t have to worry about that. That’s kind of the promise and the premise of your company.

Julie: Yes. And I think that what I – to keep it really - and to keep it really simple in my life because remember going to the grocery store for the very first time when I decided to put my child, my children, all on the GAPS diet and walking through the grocery store and standing in the front in tears. And I’ve gone to the grocery store thousands of times probably, and I stood there and I didn’t know what to buy, and I felt overwhelmed. How do I do this? How do I shop? So I always tell people that ask me, how do you do it? Real ingredients. You keep it very simple. Back to basics. So fruits, vegetables, meats, try to keep it organic, so just really back to the basics. Nothing processed. Nothing that you have to open and that’s processed; that you have to - keep to the outer edges of the grocery stores is another kind of tip that I have for consumers too. So my bars, I keep them very clean; ingredients, pure, just the purest ingredients that I can find and incorporate them into a bar. Low temperatures, and temper into a shelf stable bar for our customers.

Chris: And the part that I like that I’ve been talking about for a while with my tribe is this idea that eating organic, I think it originally began because a lot of people were thinking well, this is good for my body to eat organic. But on the cover of the Pure7 wrapper now is a bee. And the bee’s, of course, have been going through a colony collapse, both wild and the honey bee which gets more attention. But also, we’re seeing butterflies disappearing. In fact, insects are disappearing everywhere. And that’s because of the pesticides we’re using. So eating organic is another way to vote against the system of industrial agriculture that’s destroying the biosphere. So A) it’s probably better for ourselves; it’s absolutely better for the world around us to be eating organic. And yes, it costs a little bit more for a variety of reasons, but it’s important.

Julie: And I always say that it might cost a little bit more, but in the long run it really doesn’t. You can spend that money on your food, or you can spend that money at the doctors. I'm spending more money today on good quality, high quality food that’s organic, that comes from the farms, I source my food very carefully and we’re healthy. I don’t remember the last time I had to take my kids to the doctors. Years. It’s been years, and I have four children. We don’t go to the doctors anymore. We don’t need to. We keep our bodies healthy.

Chris: It sounds simple, but it’s not actually because it’s so much easier to shop in the center isle and it’s cheaper of course.

Julie: Yeah. As we get busy, it’s true. I have to check back in and come back to what’s important. As my life gets a little hectic with the company, yeah, I have to bring myself back to what’s important. Food, my food sources. They're important and not take the easy way out. You're right because that’s more expensive in the long run.

Chris: Absolutely. So let’s continue with the Pure7 story. Fern’s was first. Let’s skip a few years. Where are you now?

Julie: The company is definitely growing. We are in with brokers and distributors now. We’re out in California and the Mother’s market, Arlon, we’re focusing on the east coast, building up our stores on the east coast still, but we’re all the way out into California and Seattle. You’ll find us in Texas. You’ll find us all over in stores. We are in Whole Foods in the north Atlantic region in the northeast over here. So we’re definitely growing.

Chris: You're part of Amazon now.

Julie: That’s true. That is true.

Chris: Absolutely. And of course, it’s a small business so there’s trials and tribulations and ups and downs. And you gotta pour your heart into it.

Julie: You do. I do. Now it’s been my obsession. It really has, my company. I have. And you know as a stay at home mother and as a social worker I wasn’t a chocolatier and a chocolate maker. I didn’t run a company at this size ever. So there’s definitely learning curves here, some mistakes, thank goodness not too many large ones that have cost us much. But we keep moving on. It’s a passion of mine that I love. I’m passionate about the product that I’ve made and believe it needs to be out there.

Chris: So what’s next? And where do you want to go next with all of this?

Julie: Well, the goal is to continue growing throughout the United States. We’re growing region to region and just building upon. Right now we’re focusing on east coast, New York, although we have quite a presence out in California too. But just kind of building up our warehouses as we grow and supporting the warehouses for distribution.

Chris: And at this stage, your competition, I assume a couple other people have figured out how to do honey tempered chocolate at the point in time. What really differentiates Pure7 at this stage? What makes you different?

Julie: I think we’re the company that’s been out there the longest. There’s a few more that I see, but they're not nearly at the growth level that we’re at and able to produce to the quantities that we are able to produce at. So I’m not sure how far some of the other companies that I’ve seen will be able to grow because to bring honey sweetened chocolate into large scale quantities is a very difficult process. It’s like another huge learning curve. It’s not easy. So I don’t know. We’ll see, but right now there’s not much out there for honey sweetened chocolate – shelf stable honey sweetened chocolate bars, I should say.

Chris: Shelf stable.

Julie: Shelf stable. I’ve seen some. I think somebody else has making something maybe in a jar.

Chris: In a jar?

Julie: In a jar. Yep.

Chris: Which sounds like you a few years ago.

Julie: A few years ago. And I was like, no, that’s, yeah, we need a bar. A bar that I could break and I want to hear that snap. So that was really important to me to make sure it was tempered properly and it would have that snap, just like all the other bars out there. I needed to feel like I was eating a bar that was a chocolate bar off the shelf. I wanted a chocolate bar.

Chris: All right. So if people wanted to find it, where can they go – you mentioned some regions –

Julie: We do have a website. They can find us online at pure7chocolate.com and order write on our site. We’re on Amazon and some online markets like Thrive Market. But on our website, you’ll find a store locator, so you can find us, find maybe a store local to you by checking us online.

Chris: Okay. This has been a fabulous sort of experience for me to be involved in, and the elements of local investment are that not easy. There’s due diligence involved, and there’s a lot of conversations and pouring through numbers and looking at things and really trying to understand who you are, because I invest in people not companies really. So I believed in you and what you're about., so the story really needs to get out there because it’s not chocolate. That’s the tip of the spear on the story, but the rest of the spear is the story.

Julie: And it’s not being told – you're right – it’s really not getting out there. The story needs to be told more that, yeah, we’re working hard, we’re opening new stores. But yeah, I would love the story to get out there to be heard. But there’s options. That’s important.

Chris: Yep. People have to – it takes so much effort to figure out how to eat well.

Julie: It does.

Chris: It really does. It’s not even clear to me what organic is beginning to mean in certain circumstances at this stage. Is an organic apple from New Zealand better than one that’s local that’s not organic or close to it? It’s hard to parse all that out. So Pure7 is busy making those decisions for people. All right. And so let’s – how long ago did you start this healing process with your children and your family? When was that?

Julie: It was about six years ago. Yeah. About six years ago. My kids are doing pretty well. All of them doing very well. Yeah. I feel really fortunate, actually. My daughter, I feel really, really fortunate. She was scheduled for surgery. She was a year old when I started the GAPS started. I put her on the diet. She was scheduled for surgery two weeks after we started the GAPS diet and we were able to cancel the surgery. She wasn’t hearing. She didn’t really have eye contact. She was rocking back and for the and stimming and all those symptoms went away. I was putting her on the GAPS diet at an early age. One, I feel like it really got her off to a good start in life. Healing and sealing her gut and rebalancing the gut flora for her. I do. I feel really fortunate. She’s doing excellent. A full, complete recovery with my little girl, so I feel so fortunate.

Chris: And as we look across the larger landscape, you know what’s was really astonishing to me was I spend about a month in Buenos Aires in June, and I didn’t really notice a lot of difference in the restaurants there, but what was completely obvious there was the level of obesity there is almost nonexistent, literally almost nonexistent. So very European, French sort of body shapes there. And what we really obvious, the minute I landed back in Miami that I was back in the US. So, it’s not that there’s something going wrong with the food system everywhere, but there is something happening in the United States that’s really astonishing. Whether it’s some conflation of things, whether it’s culture plus marketing plus what’s in the food. I don’t know what all the factors are, but it’s really obvious to go to a culture that’s living more, obviously, healthily from a body mass index standpoint and to come back here. But then, that’s just sort of what you can see, and then, underneath that the levels of metabolic disease disorder and the amount of money spent on those metabolic disease disorders is astonishing.

Julie: I agree. And what I believe that to be, personally from my experience, is all the sugar and the carbs. We’re afraid of fats. We need good fats in our body’s so our body now operates and fuels off the fats and not the sugars and the carbs. And I really do believe that that’s where a lot of the obesity is coming from, and the disease is coming from. Good fats we should not be afraid of. Coconut oil and olive oil, animal fats, they're important. Avocado and egg yolks, those are all really important fats for our bodies that feeds our body. So, that’s what I really believe and what I see.

Chris: And that’s why I was personally drawn to this story because, Peal Prosperity, it’s all about the larger story. And so I never would have been interested in chocolate alone, but I am interested with this idea of how that ties in with the larger story of nutrition because we need to become aware of these things so that we can decide for ourselves if we want to moderate that. Once I controlled my nutrition by understanding what was inflammatory and what was – like you say, carbs and sugars, those turn out to be very inflammatory. I notice that my joints hurt, my tendons hurt. I said I’m getting old, which is true, but not that true.

Julie: We have all kinds of excuses.

Chris: Of course. And it was astonishing to me the amount of healing and repair that happened very rapidly once I took certain things out of my diet. How is this not more well-known?

Julie: I don’t know. And I feel the same way. When I started the diet I only did it for my kids. I wasn’t enjoying it for me. I thought I was fine. I was tired, but I had four kids. I thought I was supposed to feel this way. But at the end of the day I was dragging, and I was pulling myself. I remember I was pulling myself up the stairs on the railing trying to get myself up to bed by 9:00. I was exhausted. And when I started doing the GAPS diet, shortly after, I had just – I didn’t feel that way anymore. If I was tired it was a different kind of tired feeling. It wasn’t the same kind of tired like that whole body, boom, dead, drag myself tired. When I'm tired now it’s like, oh, I'm tired, it’s time to go to bed. I’m a little bit tired, I’m yawning, but it’s not like your whole-body aches of being tired. And when I wake up in the morning my joints don’t ache. My feet don’t tingle. I'm not sore. My joints feel good. I feel good.

Chris: Now, you have some of this story on a blog somewhere, do you not?

Julie: I do. Yeah.

Chris: All right. So how would we direct people to that if they wanted to read about that?

Julie: You know, I did the blog when I was going through the GAPS diet personally. I just thought it was something that was kind of missing out there, and I wanted just to help people go through the stages of the GAPS diet. It’s such a difficult diet to go through, so if you're interested, and full disclosure, I have not even done anything to that site in two and a half years, three years. I’ve been busy with Pure7 chocolate. But it’s still good, so I think I looked like six months ago. I think it gets like 100, 150 hits a day. People do look at this, to go at it and look at it for recipes. I’m sorry. They're just basic photos. I’m not a photographer. But the recipes are good, and it’ll show you page by page of the stages of the diet and what foods are allowed. And it’s a really good way to start it. It’s healingthroughgaps.blogspot.com.

Chris: helaingthroughgaps.blogspot.com

Julie: Yes. That’s where you can find it.

Chris: Really. And I wanted to raise that, and I’m sure people are interested but also to see the level of rigor, the background, sort of the journey, the art that you came through so they understand oh, this isn’t just – don’t take this the wrong way – this isn’t just chocolate –

Julie: No, it’s not.

Chris: No. There’s a whole reason for this.

Julie: Yeah. There really is. It’s about food. It’s my passion around healing foods that heal the body. And chocolate came out of it because it was a piece that was missing that I loved. I wanted that again in my life, so I had to figure out a way to create it that wasn’t gonna be harmful for the body.

Chris: Right. So for anybody listening, if you're thinking, well I want to – I even hate the work diet – if you're thinking about a new eating regime and you're worried that you will be an hairshirt deprivation, lack of awesomeness, fear not, there’s a chocolate available for you and your loved ones, if you want, that you can have confidence in. So that’s part one, and part two is there is a larger story of healing here through nutrition, through what we eat. Again, self-education, really important. People have to understand that the powers that be in this story do not have your best interest at heart. They have your wallet in mind. So that’s what they're after in this story and –

Julie: - cheap, fast food.

Chris: And for whatever sets of reasons, I know that a lot of people are well meaning in conventional medicine space, and a lot of doctors and nurses who want to do better, but the way the system is designed with five minutes per patient, and what is allowed and what they're allowed to do and how they will get in trouble if they don’t do certain things, there’s a lot of things forcing otherwise, I think, very well-meaning people into doing a form of, a set of treatments which end up targeting symptoms, not causes.

Julie: Yeah. I agree with that. Absolutely. That was my experience.

Chris: So that’s again, it’s just structurally how the system is set up and all of that. And then, finally that if you want to really begin to feel better that you're taking control of what you're putting in your body, understand that it matters. It really matters what you're taking in. So starting with the purest ingredients and the pure organic and all of those things, it’s actually really important. It’s really important. So with that, thank you for your time today. And if anybody wants to find out more they go to pure7chocolate.com or –

Julie: They can go to healingthroughgaps – it’s healingthroughgaps – gaps is G-A-P-S, gaps.blogspot.com.

Chris: And if anybody wants to contact me more directly about the investment and how I approached it and all that, please feel free to do so, because I’m happy to talk about that side as well. This is something that I know a lot of my listeners very - we don’t want to invest in the stock market, don’t believe in that, so where does money go? Very important. And so to align your money with your mission, your values with doing good, feeling good, being good, those are all really important things for me in this story. So Julie, thank you for your time today.

Julie: Thank you very much. Thanks, Chris.

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