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    Peak Personalities: James Kunstler

    Chris speaks candidly with Jim Kunstler on cancel culture, the Woke Mob, COVID-19 and more!
    by Jeanne

    Thursday, June 3, 2021, 7:43 PM

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105 Comments

  • Thu, Jun 03, 2021 - 8:02pm

    #1
    wotthecurtains

    wotthecurtains

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    wotthecurtains said:

    At first I was pumped.

     

    Then I skipped to the middle of the video to check the quality and you guys in are the freaking studio together!

    Not sleeping till I see this

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  • Thu, Jun 03, 2021 - 8:43pm

    #2

    Arthur Robey

    Status: Platinum Member

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    6

    Thats good.

    High data transfer leading to cascades of ideas, unfortunately the working memory is not up to the task.

    "The problem with democracies," said Adolph," is that nobody is held accountable".

    And "Any fool can make something 100% worse, but it takes a genius to make things 5% better", said Dr. Jordan Peterson.

    And

    "Universities should be refuges for cantankerous combatitive geniuses. They have been invaded by midwits" said Dr.Dutton. (the Jolly Heretic, YouTube.) Midwits are wonderful people. So Agreeable, ideal material for Groupthink.

    Further study, "The Dharma Manifesto", for the shape of the future.

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  • Thu, Jun 03, 2021 - 9:20pm

    #3
    2donks

    2donks

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    Anything Goes and Nothing Matters

    I've always loved that tagline from Jim.  It describes so many aspects of current American life and is comforting (that I'm not going crazy to feel that way) and also so depressing (that our country has devolved to such a state of dysfunction).

    Looking forward to watching.

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  • Thu, Jun 03, 2021 - 10:23pm

    #4
    jslovely

    jslovely

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    24

    Mp3

    I much prefer MP3 files for download when exercising or driving.  Running a video is a huge data hog and is overkill for a conversation.  Any chance MP3 format can be made available?

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  • Thu, Jun 03, 2021 - 11:23pm

    wotthecurtains

    wotthecurtains

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    wotthecurtains said:

    +1 for mp3.   I watched this one (and it was great to see you guys together in the same room) but generally, I'm out there walking the dog and listening.

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  • Thu, Jun 03, 2021 - 11:27pm

    #6

    Quercus bicolor

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    2

    You and Jim in same frame

    I'm just a few minutes in and I find myself really wanting to see both you and Jim in the same frame at least every so often.  Would you have to tweak the camera set up and control to make that happen?

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  • Fri, Jun 04, 2021 - 12:17am

    #7

    Arthur Robey

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    On Debt and the Bankster's Thrall.

    It must be clear to anyone that, for instance, a great electrical plant using waterpower might well be erected in the following unexceptional manner: The Government introduces a bill in the legislative council for exploiting the waterpower of Bavaria, Saxony, etc., by satisfying all economic requirements. The local Diet, or other body, decides on construction, empowers the finance minister or the State Bank to issue a series of banknotes, marked specially to show that they are fully covered by the new works under contemplation. These notes are supported by the combined credit of the State or the Reich. No one can show any objection on the score of inflation. Construction takes place on the additional credit granted by the council representing the nation, and the notes become legal tender like the rest. When the work is completed, nitrates or electricity are supplied to customers against this money, and in a few years the issue can be recalled and destroyed. Result: The State, the nation has instituted a new work.

    Feder. "The Program of the Party of Adolph Hitler".

    Now you know why we bombed women and children into a bloodsoaked rubble.

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  • Fri, Jun 04, 2021 - 12:20am

    #8
    CheechAndChong

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    Great Conversation

    Loved every minute. +1 to an mp3 option. I’d love to listen to these while walking my dog.

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  • Fri, Jun 04, 2021 - 12:55am

    #9
    FooBarr

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    You all need Honey Badger Farm hats.

    I vote for future in-studio interviews that involve balding dudes, that they should sport the Honey Badger hat.  Bonus points if the bill is curled down on the sides, slightly tipped back on the head, and a covered with some saw dust sprinkles.

    Except for Howard, he should sport a rainbow colored sombrero.

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  • Fri, Jun 04, 2021 - 1:39am

    Mots

    Mots

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    Honey Badger Hats

    I agree.

    Balding or no balding, everyone should wear a honey badger hat on these videos. Maybe the guest goes home with his very own complementary honey badget hat, to be worn as a badge of honor.

    and for meetings like polyface.  Where can I get my honey badger hat?

    the fact that the hats are black, and that alt (fillintheblank) utubers wear hats is good

    this is like American colonists proudly calling themselves yankee doodle dandies

    can someone make a black honey badger hat out of tin foil? We should not let ourselves get pushed around.

    By the way, I can show you how to easily make an aluminum foil hat black by anodizing using a DC voltage.  If there is interest and if anyone volunteers such tinfoil hat I will make a demonstration.

     

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  • Fri, Jun 04, 2021 - 2:29am

    #11
    lsuzuki

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    Nope

    He lost me at his defense of cops and his totally racist take on the black experience in Amerikkka.

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  • Fri, Jun 04, 2021 - 5:55am

    RandomMike

    RandomMike

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    Steering Kunstler

    Wonderful interview, been following Kunstler for a decade. His "Long Emergency" and "World Made by Hand" book series is fascinating, complex and wonderfully good hearted. It could be and was intended to be, a model for new living with low energy and decentralization.

    I have to chuckle at Chris' steering James away from his ideas on police and blacks! So there are some things we can't talk about here? You have to read James on that, his 2x/week essays on Kunstler.com archives.

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  • Fri, Jun 04, 2021 - 8:35am

    Canuck21

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    Honey Badger Hats

    line them on the inside against EMF radiation.

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  • Fri, Jun 04, 2021 - 9:27am

    #14
    Arcurus

    Arcurus

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    The more i think about it, the more i believe that the plan is actual true to destroy constitutional USA

    Few other countries make such a mess:

    Use of "election" machines

    Unable to count the votes with both parties agreeing

    No need to verify your identity before voting.

    Bring hole generations in debt through drastically increasing education and medicine costs.

    Fully take over and censor of the media and big internet companies

    Destroying the dollar through quantitative easing.

    Taking away possibility of citizens to defend themselves.

    Knowingly withholding curing Covid medicine.

    ...

    ...

    ...

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  • Fri, Jun 04, 2021 - 9:34am

    #15
    Steven Kelso

    Steven Kelso

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    Intra-Elite Competition: Civil Unrest Edition

    Catherine Fitts has pointed out that BLM/Antifa riots are part of a real estate acquisition plan. The riots have occurred in Opportunity Zones adjacent to Fed banks, primarily benefitting black communities.
    Mapping Minneapolis Minnesota Riot Damage, Opportunity Zones, and Fed Banks

     

    I believe Defund the Police is to make a push for Robocop. Humans have to make imperfect split second decisions. Even the most imperfect robot will be able to best us, eventually.

    Boston Dynamics "Atlas" Robot - Doing Parkour

    US police fly drone into murder suspect’s house during arrest

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  • Fri, Jun 04, 2021 - 9:47am

    #16
    Arcurus

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    Lol "Kaputt" for sure is the most useful German word :)

    Lol "Kaputt" for sure is the most useful German word 🙂

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  • Fri, Jun 04, 2021 - 9:57am

    #17

    roosterrancher

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    A comforting thought for me this morning...

    Death is a part of life just as birth is, just not as much fun.

    And so it is with collapse, just a natural phenomenon. When any species steps out of balance, ma nature steps in and corrects the issue. It's just nature and we as a species are not exempt or separated.

    Funny how we look back upon the founders of various cultures and revere them, but those final members of lost cultures seem to be forgotten in time. Except for Nero, who just might have had the right idea. With the last thrashings of our culture happening all around us it is hard not to get caught up in the angst. It is all very natural this that we are in. It has happened many times before, why not have a song in our hearts?

    Adapt and change, if we are good at that, perhaps it is us who carry the genes forward?

    Comforting no?

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  • Fri, Jun 04, 2021 - 9:58am

    Kathy

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    Both really good points

    I have seen the Catherine Fitts hypothesis but no one seems to talk about.

    I had not considered the Robocop concept.  This removes all liability, “oops, defective robocop or it was hacked it has been deactivated/reprogramed.” This will allow TIIC to take out just about anyone.

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  • Fri, Jun 04, 2021 - 10:46am

    #19
    wotthecurtains

    wotthecurtains

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    wotthecurtains said:

    "Comforting no?

    I do find this comforting.  And yet finding a balance between living my life and being "checked out" of the culture and nation that reared me still causes a lot of psychological dissonance in me.

    My mind races ahead a few years to a time when we can plainly see that vaccine saved many old people from Covid but ruined more lives overall because of the insistence on a jab in every arm.  I can see this being "fact checked" right out of the public consciousness just the way Ivermectin was.  Just the way Vitamin D was 10 years ago.  Just the way the Rwandan genocide was when I was still in school.

    I can teach my child about Vitamin D, but its only a matter of time before he is confronted by "respectable people" asking him where he heard that bullshit?   There will be an unspoken context in the question letting him know that good schools, good jobs and good spouses don't come to those who take a lot of wrong turns.

     

    Perhaps many of us are fated to exist in little one-person monasteries in our own minds.  I can do it and have a level of happiness overall, but I don't think most can.  This may be the reason that most people with continue going to the football game even if it does involve a backpack search, a health passport check and a lecture about privilege before the pre-game kneal and the military recruitment speech delivered from center field.

     

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  • Fri, Jun 04, 2021 - 12:01pm

    #20

    Tycer

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    Fun!

    That was fun! Thanks 🙏🏼

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  • Fri, Jun 04, 2021 - 12:40pm

    #21

    thc0655

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    Incentives

    I certainly agree with Chris (and Charlie Munger) that incentives strongly influence results. Chris’s go-to solution for police misconduct is that all settlement payouts for police misconduct should come from the officers’ pension fund, not taxpayer funds. Pretty soon police would be pressuring each other to perform better or get out of the profession. Neat solution.

    I wonder, Chris, if you’d be willing to universalize that concept and include yourself in a similar system? Do you realize you’d be in the American Life Sciences Researchers’ Pension Fund with Tony Fauci and Peter Daszak? The settlements against them could run into the hundreds of billions of dollars, so I wouldn’t get too comfortable with your retirement plans just yet. 😳

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  • Fri, Jun 04, 2021 - 1:42pm

    agnes xyz

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    Agree with Isuzuki

    Expect it from the interviewee. He's not big on women, either. I read his first novel and didn't recognize any of the women as even humans of either gender or one of the neo ones.. I don't know what they were.

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  • Fri, Jun 04, 2021 - 2:32pm

    #23
    agnes xyz

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    Nice work

    But excellent presentation. Quality studio. Nice parry, Chris.

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  • Fri, Jun 04, 2021 - 2:37pm

    #24
    Pipyman

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    Not sure

    A comparison between uk and US is a good one there. I suspect cops with itchy trigger fingers comes from the fact (to some extent) that you guys can own and carry weapons. Uk cops do not have that concern; we are totally disarmed. We can’t even carry pepper spray as that’s illegal! The cops don’t carry guns either (in general). I suspect this is a drawback to citizens being armed US style.

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  • Fri, Jun 04, 2021 - 3:25pm

    #25
    GardensAreGreat

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    GardensAreGreat said:

    i enjoyed it very much!

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  • Fri, Jun 04, 2021 - 6:08pm

    #26
    Rhapsodilly

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    A Boomer on Boomers

    About 1:05 Kunstler said "My generation grew up opposing the tyranny of the state. And now they're just lying down for it. History is a trickster, baby." Being a mid-pack boomer, I also have anguished over this sellout of values. But I think there is a simple answer. There never were solid values. As free young adults, while lauding our noblesse, we delighted in the passions and indulgences of youth. Peace and love, man. As middle age parents sweating for paychecks and responsible for our kids, the former penchant for self indulgence was replaced by a hard steer towards convenience. Zero tolerance, son. And as retirees we have seen to it that the financial pie is served at our chosen spot at the dinner table. Our enormous demographic mass ensured the political capture of our changing preferences.

    The preceding Silent Generation had solid values borne of the sweat, tears and blood. My Boomer generation was born with these values but did not en masse live of or according to these values. (My, how the world rhymes sometimes.)

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  • Fri, Jun 04, 2021 - 6:57pm

    EddieLarry

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    EddieLarry said:

    That’s a great point!  Wonder what pension funds Chris is in?

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  • Fri, Jun 04, 2021 - 10:32pm

    #28
    Joseph Thomas

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    Nice Studio

    Can't think of a better person for your first guest in the studio.  Always enjoy when my two favorite adults sit down for a discussion.  I read the Long Emergency when it was first published and world made by hands series.  I was already convinced we were on the road to being forced to a simpler lifestyle and those books encouraged me to double down on my efforts to make my family as resilient as possible.  My thanks to both of you fine gentleman for your commentary and insights over the years.

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  • Sat, Jun 05, 2021 - 6:23am

    #29
    SupremeCannon

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    Great discussion

    I really doubt most people understand just how temporary the lifestyle we have today is going to prove to be.  And what a one-and-done it will be in hindsight.  Now that people have been given a chance - willingly or not - to get away from the mass-commuter life I think a lot of them will find ways not to go back.  And probably couldn't if they wanted to.  It's going to be an interesting couple of decades.

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  • Sat, Jun 05, 2021 - 7:12am

    #30
    Mpup

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    Brilliant discussion

    Just spent the last hour preparing a response to this excellent discussion and video...only to lose it.  (reminder to self and others) copy your replies.   Minus the huge accolades to Chris and Jim the gist of my previous response:  Science and Faith are not at odds.  Without some moral compass, i.e. Scripture, science like man will easily be corrupted.  At the 36:00 mark this is touched upon.  Why is it that "intellectuals" are reluctant to say and lend credence to the "G" word?   Perhaps lack of knowledge or understanding of Scripture?

    Insightful, profound, prophetic, witty, and humorous.   The video is all of this and more.  Please do follow-up's with Mr. Kunstler, truly classic stuff.  We are honored to share in the good you bring us.   https://kunstler.com/

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  • Sat, Jun 05, 2021 - 7:46am

    #31
    brushhog

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    brushhog said:

    I've been reading Kunstler's articles for a decade. His perspectives are interesting and I think he lives like one town away from me. I tried to read his book "world by hand" but the main character of the story was sleeping with his best friends' wife which absolutely disgusted me. I could not sympathize with the character and just started hating him, eventually picking up the book started to feel like a grim chore and so I dropped it.

    Too bad because it was good up until that point, and the story was engaging too. I just couldnt get past the casual infidelity. Im not even a prude or a very religious or morally righteous person but it was such a sleazy arrangement that it killed the book for me. Oh well, interesting dude anyway.

    Off to prepare for a day of haying.

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  • Sat, Jun 05, 2021 - 8:12am

    AaronMcKeon

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    AaronMcKeon said:

    The audio version is now available and we will be sure to include in all posts moving forward!

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  • Sat, Jun 05, 2021 - 1:12pm

    darren

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    darren said:

    If you dig in the html, you will find clues on how to get the mp3 file.  Not sure how much Chris wants it to be downloaded so I will leave that to a reader's exercise.

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  • Sat, Jun 05, 2021 - 3:51pm

    #34
    Pretzell

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    Fusion Energy

    May I suggest that Mr. Kunstler (and Chris) take a look at TAE Technologies and Commonwealth Fusion Systems.  This energy source is not as far away as Jim believes.

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  • Sat, Jun 05, 2021 - 6:55pm

    #35
    KugsCheese

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    KugsCheese said:

    Will a sodium based nuke reactor and a quantum leap in battery tech save the day?  Certainly, there will be incentives to innovate but will government get in the way to to protect crony positions?   And why all the UFO talk...that is silly.

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  • Sat, Jun 05, 2021 - 7:33pm

    RobertSteinhilber

    RobertSteinhilber

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    Awe = the balance between what we know and what we don't know

    "Only mystery enables us to live" - a Spanish Surrealist

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  • Sat, Jun 05, 2021 - 8:52pm

    John Boevink

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    Very much agree with Chris that (low cost) ENERGY is the driver of affluence.

    I believe KugsCheese refers to a molten sodium cooled reactor. This is heaping risk upon risk.

    Chris and anybody interested getting energy in should check: the Thorcon nuclear reactor

    https://youtu.be/oB1IrzDDI9g

    • It is another example of where excellent science carried out at Oakridge (late 1950's) was denied for the benefit of coal, oil & gas and atom bombs.
    • There is no ability to look after the environment without Affluence

     

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  • Sun, Jun 06, 2021 - 8:53am

    #38
    Richard Allen

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    Underlying this whole discussion...

    Chris & Jim, As good as you guys are at describing the shadows on the cave walls (collapse of higher Ed, normalizing of mass lying, suppression of i********n treatments, insanity of energy policy, etc, etc), you only glancingly allude to the root cause of all this lunacy — which seems to clearly be a decades-long, resource-depletion-aware effort by the oligarchs to lead us into a dystopian future where they can still be on top.  James Corbett’s work (corbettreport dot com) outlines this effort most clearly, I think.  The most effective way to make the world a better place is to chop as close to the root of evil as possible.  You guys are (very effectively) hacking off limbs, but I don’t think that’s enough at this point, as the iron fist of technocratic biosecurity-state totalitarianism tightens. — Dan (sorry for the mixed bag of metaphors)

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  • Sun, Jun 06, 2021 - 9:24am

    agnes xyz

    agnes xyz

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    Agree Richard Allen - Corbett

    The end of the Gates documentary from the Corbett Report, that eliminating Gates would stop nothing because of the huge reach of the organization, was profound. The whole documentary was eye-opening. I assume that eliminating Fauci would have the same null effect. They are both front people who were available to be thrown under the bus. The leaders are unknown people who insist that their names be in the news media three times only: birth, marriage, death. Even Catherine Austin-Fitts can't figure out who they are.

    I have no solution except Madeye Moody's from Harry Potter: Constant Vigilance.

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  • Sun, Jun 06, 2021 - 1:00pm

    #40
    Primary Care_MD

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    20

    duty to warn

    Chris, could you please advise all of your followers to NOT get the covid vaccine for their children, including those headed off to college? There's no upside for them, but the potential downside is enormous. We just don't know what may happen, a year after. I can't sleep at night because of this. I feel like I'm screaming into the wind.

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  • Sun, Jun 06, 2021 - 2:07pm

    #41

    Tina S

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    5

    disappointed

    Jim Kunstler is a loud and proud racist.  I used to read his blog and buy his books without fail but lost interest completely over the last two years due to his emotionally unhinged rants about people who aren't white.  He is clearly a misogynist as well.

    Chris if you genuinely want to reach out to a wider group of people (beyond the regular PP crowd), that just won't happen if you feature guests who wholesale discount large segments of the population. If you don't know what I'm talking about, just go read his blog.  Pretty hard to miss.

    PP has been an incredible resource for me for years but it really concerns me to see JHK as your first featured guest in the new series.

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  • Sun, Jun 06, 2021 - 2:34pm

    Pappy

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    World made by Hand - main character disgust...

    brushhog,

    If you read further into the book, you will find that the minister who couldn't make love to his wife had a psychological problem that was eventually "fixed" and he came back to his wife with full turgidity. You probably won't like how that happened, but it happened.

    I'm going to play armchair shrink and devil's advocate here by stating that your "one man, one woman" sensibilities are just an ingrained and trained belief that you hold, but that nature laughs at.  The main character in this novel lost his wife, the minister's wife essentially lost the physical aspect of her relationship with her husband's mental impotence which manifested as physical impotence.

    People need a physical connection in their lives to emotionally survive, and after the world fell apart and the flu killed off a large portion of society in the book, that physical connection could only be found in those characters' situation as it happened.  Eventually that temporary relationship dissolved and each character found a more monogamous and in your estimation, a more "suitable" situation for physical love.

    I don't want to attack your sensibilities and how you react to a fictional portrayal of people surviving the fall of civilization, but as a farmer (my presumption on the hay comment) you have to realize the universe is indifferent and unintentionally cruel at times if not constantly so.

    Being physically/emotionally disgusted at a fictional character dealing with loss and love in apocalyptic end times is actually a programmed response and symptom of "easy living" in a world where it is trained that monogamy is the only way to be.

    Your first world upbringing and bias has prevented you from observing the many messages being sent by JHK throughout the rest of the book and series due to this reaction.

    If what is being said about the 3 E's in the crash course is actually going to come true (I believe post-oil is real and quickly approaching), you may not be psychologically prepared to have your entire paradigm destroyed while it occurs.

    The morals and norms of the "happy motoring" society we grew up in are not definitive natural laws, they are man made.  The true essence of human or almost any mammalian evolution is polygamy or the ability to adapt to polygamy when needed. Best way to ensure survivability is to cast the seeds wide and deep and find love where it is available.

    Monogamy is not the natural state of sexual beings, it is actually an imposed concept on humans that most probably widely began with the advent of the printing press and the mass distribution of the 10 commandments by the Church. It was used to control and stabilize society for the benefit of the rulers if not the societal growth itself.  If the serfs were fighting over each others' wives and property, they would unproductive to the needs of society and the rulers. Surely the leaders weren't and aren't held to the same rules.

    The Christian belief of the all powerful 10 commandments as being permanent rules for humans could not be more wrong. Especially in modern times.

    Our esteemed leaders (and a massive percentage of citizens) continually lie, cheat, steal, murder and covet others and their property. It is actually the true essence of capitalism and empire building. Complacency is never enough to the capitalist or emperor.

    Capitalism is all about taking from others at a profit.  Ideally it would be a mutually beneficial exchange, but that is almost never the case. In order for one person to profit, someone else must pay. Simple laws of thermodynamics that energy/mass cannot be created or destroyed, only transferred.

    "Creation of wealth" is a misnomer, especially in the western world. We only win in first world economies by having losers - sweatshops in Asia, the true price of oil never being paid, toppling of regimes that don't fall in line. For the US et al to get rich, poor countries need to be paid slave wages, have resources ravaged and the environment ruined (all 3 E's are in that sentence BTW).

    We can see that playing out internally also in the dwindling central bank interest rates which are necessary for a system that feeds off itself. Borrow from Peter (at a loss) to pay Paul (for his profit). Repeat that for 100+ years and you have zombie corporations and interest rates continually falling to prop up the system, with proposals of negative rates being floated lately.

    Or similarly with the increase in divorces as populations approach the 7 and 8 billion marks. This is indicative of the true human nature.  To frolic like the animals we are. And we covet other mates.

    Animals literally eat each other to survive or mate with many vs. one - humans are merely animals with language.  We just rationalize our actions in the modern world by hiding or pretending we don't partake in these actions.

     

    SUMMARY - I know I make some massive leaps in my statements above, but the essence of my point is your sensibilities are societal programming which only "work" within the framework of our imposed and wholly unnatural modern "moral" framework.

    Once cheap oil/energy goes away, all modern day norms will revert to survival of the fittest.  Meaning that polygamy may actually benefit the individuals and groups that practice them whereas monogamy and the grieving widow(er) may just crumble emotionally and not thrive or even survive.

    In this particular context of the novel, when the world has ended and 90% of all humans are dead, your trained instinct to be appalled by infidelity could become a weakness and not a helpful factor in your emotional as well as overall species survival, depending on the situations presented to you.

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  • Sun, Jun 06, 2021 - 2:37pm

    breifenberg27

    breifenberg27

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    5

    Really?

    Looks like you've been a PP member since 2015. Were you not aware Chris is friends with Kunstler? I realize broadly condemning someone as racist with no evidence cited is all the rage these days, but can you at least cite a specific blog post or quote?

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  • Sun, Jun 06, 2021 - 3:05pm

    elsur

    elsur

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    elsur said:

    We agree!  It would be great to download Peakprosperity talks as an mp3 file - much like one can do at the CorbettReport.com.  Please make this available for subscribers - thank you!

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  • Sun, Jun 06, 2021 - 3:35pm

    agnes xyz

    agnes xyz

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    agnes xyz said:

    Wow. That's a lot of spewage going every-which-way at once. I couldn't follow any of it. None of it seemed to apply to the person being spewed against. As far as I'm concerned, Brushog didn't miss anything by not reading further. No sense but visual. No sound, no smells, no taste. The dialogue mostly grunted. Boring. And none of the characters described as female seemed even human - more like desperate dogs begging to be fed by Great Master.

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  • Sun, Jun 06, 2021 - 3:41pm

    agnes xyz

    agnes xyz

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    agnes xyz said:

    No evidence? You've got to be kidding.

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  • Sun, Jun 06, 2021 - 4:13pm

    Susan7

    Susan7

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    Posts: 165

    2

    Susan7 said:

    Non-monogamy only “works” for the male. Historically, women have seldom, if ever benefitted.

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  • Sun, Jun 06, 2021 - 4:14pm

    Pappy

    Pappy

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    Posts: 147

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    To each their own...

    Seems like you were predestined (or programmed) to dislike what I wrote, just my take on that.  So be it.

    I hoped to impart a deeply philosophical and extremely disciplined (for me) collection of non-aggressive verbiage as my mode of communication to forward my thoughts based upon decades of human and natural observation, study and living.

    You responded with "spewage" and that JHK writes terribly boring and grunting.

     

    I will save my critiques as they won't be as benign and polite as my original post.

     

    Again, the universe is indifferent and unintentionally cruel.

     

    I am trying very hard lately to not be cruel if I can help it. Your response is literally triggering all of those old reactions I am normally used to actually spewing. You would not like who I'm trying to evolve beyond if I devolved as a reply.

     

    Deep breath for me and a realization that I have been served well by my experiences and learning I'm trying to share from my life, you're free to blow it off as an attack and utter nonsense at your own discretion.

     

    Regardless, I'm at least glad you attempted to read what I wrote and wish you good day.

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  • Sun, Jun 06, 2021 - 4:41pm

    Tina S

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    Posts: 22

    4

    yes, really

    I'm well aware that Chris and Jim are friends.  I referred people to Kunstler's blog so that I wouldn't be accused of cherry picking a quote.  However, I'll mention this from "History Lesson" posted on July 3, 2020.

    "the unfinished business of the civil rights movement... was the full participation of Black citizens in American life. The main grievance now is that Black Americans are still denied full participation due to “systemic racism.” That’s a dodge. What actually happened is that Black America opted out and lost itself in a quandary of its own making with the assistance of their white dis-enablers, the well-intentioned “progressives.”

    Further he claims that "Altogether, Black America remained ambivalent and anxious about all that. That full participation implied a challenge to compete on common ground."  That's a very bold claim about an entire 13% of the population and he certainly did not support his idea that blacks as an entire group opted out of trying to enter the economic mainstream.
    Elsewhere, for example in his June 5 post, he sneeringly makes fun of the idea that systematic racism exists in this country.  Besides the fact that this country was founded on enslaving black people and deliberately destroying the indigenous population and its culture, we have a rich history of lynching, race riots by white mobs, redlining, massive employment discrimination and an enormous wealth gap as evidence.
    Does anyone really think that black people as a whole chose to be impoverished?  Isn't it just a teensy bit more likely that the entrenched money interests in this country have a strong interest in keeping large groups of the population out of the profit streams?  Don't they also gain by pitting white and black people against each other and distracting them from who is really benefiting from the way our economy and society are structured?  In my mind, that's what this is really about and it disappoints me that an interesting thinker like Kunstler would take this line.

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  • Sun, Jun 06, 2021 - 5:00pm

    Tina S

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    3

    another thought

    I'll add that I have enormous respect for Chris and actual gratitude for his information scouting skills and critical thinking, which have helped me in making some big life decisions.  I just don't understand the continued support of JKH, there are plenty of other interesting thinkers out there.

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  • Sun, Jun 06, 2021 - 5:08pm

    thejerr

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    Harsh

    Calling JHK a racist is a pretty harsh assertion against someone.  It is the misdiagnosis of the term racist that seems to be the issue these days.  Looking at the definition of racism there is the following:

    “a belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race”

    I’ve been following JHK for years and I’ve never sensed he believes that the problems or successes of any group is due to an inherent issue or capabilities of race from his writings.  He does write about government policies that may contribute to disparities in outcome between groups.  I think we can agree that policies create incentives as Chris’s often says.  Policies that incentivize actions have nothing to do with racial matters.

    We all have opinions and whether he is right or wrong with these opinions, discussing potential policy as the whole or partial cause of trying explain a complex topic of which is currently being  used to pit one against the other doesn't indicate he is a racist.  With that said, his willingness to at least maintain the overton window range and discuss potential reasons for disparity that are constantly being shut down by the term “racist” is needed at least from a ying/yang standpoint.

    Hope you reconsider your opinion of him.

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  • Sun, Jun 06, 2021 - 6:05pm

    Rhapsodilly

    Rhapsodilly

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    Kudos to Primary Care MD

    Almost none in my loose social circles hear me when I talk about Ivermectin and my grave concerns about jabbing youth. It does feel ridiculously futile. I am currently reaching out further, with decidedly mixed results. Thank you, thank you, Primary Care MD, for your efforts. Screaming into the wind may be all that we can do, but if so, I believe it's what we must do.

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  • Sun, Jun 06, 2021 - 6:18pm

    Ubermeister

    Ubermeister

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    Ubermeister said:

    I have printed the I-Mask protocol and keep copies handy so I can give them to anyone who will listen, with a copy of the link to FLCCC. I also give them addresses to the best recent interviews of Drs. Kory and McCullough.

    I have found that my most receptive targets are those in the building trades and attendees at the WorldWide Demonstration in May. Financial types, lawyers, and doctors generally are not interested.

    With the press refusing to cover this, I realize most just think I am a crank. My own brother will not listen. No one can believe the national health institutions would fold their hand and let people die, so there MUST be a good reason for their recommendations.

    It's discouraging. Still, step-by-step...

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  • Sun, Jun 06, 2021 - 6:24pm

    Jim H

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    14

    I'm with you Rhapsodilly and PrimaryCareMD

    Week before last we had a little exacerbation nearby that made the news... The town of Ridgefield, WA, North of me, was busing high school kids to a central location for a vax day for the kids.  They were supposed to have permission from parents but this was being poorly enforced.  One young girl was being pressured by her teachers and peers and called her dad crying to please pick her up.  The dad had done so and there were anti-vaccine proponents picketing outside the location.. so there ended up being quite chaotic scene that was caught on video.

    I ended up walking next door to warn my fellow working-at-home neighbor that this was happening nearby - he has two high school age daughters.  I tried my best at the time to blather all I knew about the vaccines.  He begged off for a work call and I felt bad that I had not done justice to the conversation.. or that he would simply write me off as a conspiracy theorist of some sort.  In the meantime I have been printing out a bunch of supporting documentation and just earlier today I got a chance to talk to him again briefly and hand him the stack of doc's (which now included the FOIA'ed bioaccum data that shows the Vax accumulating in ovaries).  He was interested and noted that he felt scientific debate should be allowed...  so I felt much better about the second conversation.

    At the end of the day, it's hard to hold the knowledge that we do and not act on it.  I literally feel like being one of those nuts who puts up a big sign in his yard saying, "Don't vax your kids"  and "Ivermectin stops the pandemic".

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  • Sun, Jun 06, 2021 - 7:01pm

    #55
    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

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    14

    That idea has crossed my mind many a time...

    Jim H wrote:

    At the end of the day, it's hard to hold the knowledge that we do and not act on it. I literally feel like being one of those nuts who puts up a big sign in his yard saying, "Don't vax your kids" and "Ivermectin stops the pandemic".

    I have so many times, especially in the last few months, felt like I am bursting at the seams to the point I started thinking about how to make my giant sign and where the best place to stand would be! It is so very frustrating to feel this stifled on what is literally a life and death matter!

    If we consider the red-blue pill meme from The Matrix, it would seem most in the PP tribe are red pill takers. We go about life interacting with others, the majority of which seem to be blue pill takers. I have had moments where I long for that kind of blissful ignorance, but then I give my head a shake & remind myself that ignorance and not wanting to get involved is why we are in this mess.

    For non important matters I would say who cares, their ignorance is only hurting them. But in this instance their ignorance is hurting all of us. That does not sit well with me, at all.

     

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  • Sun, Jun 06, 2021 - 11:31pm

    breifenberg27

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    Is he racist or is it a matter of your perception?

    I don't think he's discounting black Americans at all. I think the idea that black people need help from white progressives is far more discounting than what JHK has said. I believe Malcolm X said something to the effect of white liberals being the greatest threat to Black communities. I think he makes a good point in the quote you shared. Who are we (white Americans) to decide black Americans must conform to every aspect of American society? It seems some of the largest corporations are using "wokeness" to profit, so I'm not sure how keeping Black people in poverty is benefiting moneyed interests. These corporations want to welcome all races, genders, sexual orientations, etc., into the fold of mindless consumerism. So, the more disposable income minorities have, the better for corporations like Nike, for example, who have used the SJW movement as an advertising campaign.

    I don't think he's wrong to suggest that Black Americans in general have opted out of the mainstream economy. I don't think he means all Black Americans. Unfortunately, there is a sub-culture in Black communities that seems to disapprove of Black individuals' success. Black students who do well in school can be ridiculed by peers as "acting white." He's pointing out some harsh realities. I don't think crimes against Black Americans in the past really amount to some kind of ongoing systemic racism. This country was not founded on slavery. A minority of Americans owned slaves. I understand he's not politically correct, but that doesn't make him a racist in my opinion.

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  • Mon, Jun 07, 2021 - 12:32am

    Arthur Robey

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1937

    6

    Secular sins.

    There are a People who are Zulus, there are a People who are Inuit. Is it "Racist" to point this out?

    How well would a Zulu fare in Greenland? How well would an Inuit fare in Zululand?

    Does a Zulu born in Greenland automatically become an Inuit?

    So many questions, such unnecessary anguish.

    We are warned by Jessos circa 1000 BC to recognize and repudiate faux guilt. This whole "racist" schtick is an attempt at social engineering using Pavlovian guilt tripping.

    It must all be rejected.

    It is for this reason that the Masters reduced everything down to "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you".

    Being uncouth is not a Sin.

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  • Mon, Jun 07, 2021 - 5:54am

    CrLaan

    CrLaan

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    CrLaan said:

     

    @brushhog

    I could not sympathize with the character

    the woman with the long black veil?

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  • Mon, Jun 07, 2021 - 8:43am

    Rhapsodilly

    Rhapsodilly

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    Joined: Dec 15 2020

    Posts: 38

    10

    Jim H - Your honest actions stand against the tyranny

    Are we all finding ourselves completely as fish out of water in this rarified air of certainty? My political perspectives have previously typically formed from submersed vantage points in unclear swamps with confusing cross-currents, enlivened occasionally by high minded brightfish. Now, I am certain that we face great evil that most are unable to see. This evil now preys on children. I have no choice but to grow legs and stand.

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  • Mon, Jun 07, 2021 - 9:24am

    #60

    jturbo68

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Aug 04 2009

    Posts: 243

    8

    JHK a confusd man. Im sorry to have lost him.

    Ive read and digested JHK for many years, maybe particularly his podcasts.  A few years ago I began catching hints of his swing to the right.  The first item I recall was some comments about women as chaos agents in society.

    The story became much clearer as he latched onto the 'stop the steal' mentality.  I went to his blog the other day and he was still going on that topic, following the whole Arizona audit.   I doubt that the Arizona exercise will lead anywhere further than the past 60 challenges and maneuvers, however I dont expect that this will make any difference.

    Sad as JHK always claimed to be immune to conspiracy theories, but now appears to have fallen for one himself.

     

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  • Mon, Jun 07, 2021 - 9:56am

    yracaz

    yracaz

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    yracaz said:

    Jturbo68, Kinda premature to post such comments until his “conspiracy theory” is fully vetted. About about the “conspiracy theory” that the virus was created in a lab?

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  • Mon, Jun 07, 2021 - 9:59am

    RandomMike

    RandomMike

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    Posts: 247

    4

    Just something to write about

    I think and hope that JHK doesn't believe the new right stuff you mention. IMHO since his Patreon-paid blog seems to be his main source of income, he sacrificed some authenticity for a subject which drew crowds. He has a rich imagination.

     

     

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  • Mon, Jun 07, 2021 - 10:30am

    nyhetersverige

    nyhetersverige

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    nyhetersverige said:

    You can prolly do that with any number of conversion sites.

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  • Mon, Jun 07, 2021 - 10:34am

    nyhetersverige

    nyhetersverige

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    nyhetersverige said:

    So you interview someone and have a civil conversation with them and that means you support them? What does that even mean, outside the fantasy land of Woke?

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  • Mon, Jun 07, 2021 - 11:41am

    jturbo68

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    Correcting a quote

    I believe that the quote attributed to Malcolm X was a MLK Quote, and actually against White Moderates who find that they cannot abide by radical actions taken by the minority group.

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  • Mon, Jun 07, 2021 - 11:59am

    jturbo68

    Status: Silver Member

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    Posts: 243

    6

    Yes, conspiracy theory

    The Lab leak theory has been gaining traction since it was introduced, and had significant evidence supporting it from the start.   And has been broken open fairly easily.  Personally, I am happy that this was so easily broken, and at some level it restores my belief that hiding nefarious stuff is hard to do.  And im always happy for corruption, hubris, insulated buracuracy,  and media band wagon to be embarrassed when they screw up.

    The stop the steal movement has been reviewed at all levels for 8 months so far, and evidence has been reviewed by many courts, including Trump appointed judges. Nothing has been show after all that time.  Each time, the stop the steal crowd, just claims the lack of evidence just means that the cover up is another level deeper.

    The AZ Inquiry is just another step towards weakening our democracy and destroying the tatters of belief in governmental systems.  Things are bad enough as is without further committing to untrue ideas.

    Im perfectly happy to accept a fraudulent election if indeed something like this happened.   I welcome fraus to be proven where it exists, no matter who or what is destroyed. The evidence of STS has failed to date and is now damaging our democracy.

    When the lack of evidence is proof of the conspiracy, that is a good definition of being trapped in a conspiracy.  Hopefully, once the AZ thing fails, you can give up on that belief and work hard to repair belief in the overall soundness of the US elections.

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  • Mon, Jun 07, 2021 - 12:36pm

    #67

    Jim H

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    You really need to stop watching CNN JTurbo...

    No evidence has been presented in any court... all of the court cases have been shut down on technicalities like "standing".  I am not going to waste time arguing with you.. but you should know that many of us understand that the election had many questionable elements going on which were inexorably tied to the pandemic and keeping observers at a distance.  Never waste a pandemic, right?

    https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2021/05/an_election_heist_too_big_to_fail.html

    So now we have a highly suspicious national election in which a sitting president wins nearly every traditional bellwether county in the nation by double digits, grows his popularity with women and minorities, and increases his vote tally by over ten million new voters from his first election — all feats that would normally indicate an electoral landslide. And, instead, after the miracles of mail-in balloting, privatized elections bought and owned by Facebook, and vote counts conducted in partisan secrecy, Joe Biden wins three disputed states and the national election by a measly 40,000 votes. Uh, sure.

    A majority of the American people didn't buy the lie in November, and they don't buy the lie now, and once again, the same liars who pushed the Russia and Ukraine hoaxes are angry that Americans won't simply accept the lies they are fed.

    Right now, Maricopa County, Arizona, is conducting an audit of its 2020 vote, and county officials have already admitted that an outside vendor illegally operated the election for them. Michigan election officials likely broke state law by manually disabling the scanned image function for ballots, and election attorney Matthew DePerno alleges that modems were connected to Michigan voting equipment, an election violation that NBC News reports would render the election "no longer federally certified." After revelations that Facebook and other Big Tech players who had no business interfering in local election precincts paid government election offices in battleground states to become "turnout machines for Biden," the state of Wisconsin has finally authorized an audit of the election. And an election audit in Windham, New Hampshire shows "ample evidence that voting machines favored Democrats, are not reliable, and cannot be trusted."

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  • Mon, Jun 07, 2021 - 12:39pm

    Mark Grable

    Mark Grable

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    6

    reply to Itsuzuki about police

    Sounds like you have missed or avoided looking at the world not just from the liberal point of view, and deprived yourself of the advantages of having another point of view. Having tow eyes in our head is how we have depth of field judgment, how we can estimate distance from feet to miles.

    I suggest these You Tube channels:  The Officer Tatum; Good Luck America; Think Like a Horse; Thomas Sowell; Mat Christiansen; Romainian TV; Garland Nixon; and Richard Grove.

    If you take off the ideological patch which you wear over your right eye because it's in fashion with the people you know, you do face the danger of increased ambivalence. Uncertainty can be uncomfortable, not everyone can manage to maintain the state for long stretches of time. You will loose some friends who will insist you wear the patch. There are some advantages though.

    You can take the path less traveled.

    You can figure out where you leave off and community begins.

    You can see the depth of experience other minds have had and how they think.

    You can see what is fundamental to your life, and what is superficial.

    You will write better poetry, and you will get William Shakespear, and William Blake, and history more deeply.

    You will develop more compassion for others, for yourself, for the world.

     

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  • Mon, Jun 07, 2021 - 12:51pm

    CrLaan

    CrLaan

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    CrLaan said:

    If what is being said about the 3 E's in the crash course is actually going to come true (I believe post-oil is real and quickly approaching), you may not be psychologically prepared to have your entire paradigm destroyed while it occurs.

    https://deutsche-wirtschafts-nachrichten.de/512405/Laschet-und-die-Gruenen-wollen-innerdeutschen-Flugverkehr-abschaffen?src=XNASLSPREGG

     

    Germany is the metafor.

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  • Mon, Jun 07, 2021 - 1:10pm

    jturbo68

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Aug 04 2009

    Posts: 243

    2

    Oops, its just onel level deeper.

    Of course they have. I guess the conspiracy is just one level deeper.

    How many millions more votes do you need to be spotted next time to be able to take a loss and not crater your democracy?

    CNN can go f*** itself, btw.  Whatever media you are digesting that is keeping you in the STS game, is not doing you any favors at this point.

    Pretend its the year 2000 and take the loss like the dems did.  You'll get another chance here shortly.

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  • Mon, Jun 07, 2021 - 2:11pm

    agnes xyz

    agnes xyz

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    Posts: 132

    2

    A response for Mark Grable

    It sounds like you need to recite your comment in front of a mirror. I dare you.

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  • Mon, Jun 07, 2021 - 2:51pm

    breifenberg27

    breifenberg27

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    Joined: Jun 06 2021

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    1

    Different men, different quotes/ideas

    Not sure what the source of the quote is. Maybe a speech or maybe written. But I found this with a quick Google search.

    "The white liberal is the worst enemy to America, and the worst enemy to the black man."

    https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/8869214-the-white-liberal-is-the-worst-enemy-to-america-and

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  • Mon, Jun 07, 2021 - 3:27pm

    jturbo68

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Aug 04 2009

    Posts: 243

    2

    Malcolm X quote.

    Thanks for the quote.   Appears that Malcolm X didnt trust white people conservative or liberal.  Interesting to ponder where we are 60 years on.

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  • Mon, Jun 07, 2021 - 3:28pm

    #74
    breifenberg27

    breifenberg27

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    Joined: Jun 06 2021

    Posts: 5

    3

    History repeating itself?

    Not sure what led you to draw that conclusion. This sounds exactly like what we're seeing now with corporations and politicians pandering to Black Americans and claiming Black Americans need help from white people (remember when Joe Biden said Black Americans who don't vote for him "ain't Black"?):

    "The white liberal aren’t white people who are for independence, who are moral and ethical in their thinking. They are just a faction of white people that are jockeying for power. The same as the white conservative is a faction of white people that are jockeying for power. They are fighting each other for power and prestige, and the one that is the football in the game is the Negro, 20 million black people. A political football, a political pawn, an economic football, and economic pawn. A social football, a social pawn. The liberal elements of whites are those who have perfected the art of selling themselves to the Negro as a friend of the Negro. Getting sympathy of the Negro, getting the allegiance of the Negro, and getting the mind of the Negro. Then the Negro sides with the white liberal, and the white liberal use the Negro against the white conservative. So that anything that the Negro does is never for his own good, never for his own advancement, never for his own progress, he’s only a pawn in the hands of the white liberal. The worst enemy that the Negro have is this white man that runs around here drooling at the mouth professing to love Negros, and calling himself a liberal, and it is following these white liberals that has perpetuated problems that Negros have. If the Negro wasn’t taken, tricked, or deceived by the white liberal then Negros would get together and solve our own problems. I only cite these things to show you that in America the history of the white liberal has been nothing but a series of trickery designed to make Negros think that the white liberal was going to solve our problems. Our problems will never be solved by the white man. The only way that our problem will be solved is when the black man wakes up, clean himself up, stand on his own feet and stop begging the white man, and take immediate steps to do for ourselves the things that we have been waiting on the white man to do for us."

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  • Mon, Jun 07, 2021 - 5:04pm

    EddieLarry

    EddieLarry

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    Joined: Jul 04 2020

    Posts: 174

    0

    Vietnam

    How many Boomers died or were injured in Vietnam.  How easy it is to forget.

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  • Mon, Jun 07, 2021 - 5:13pm

    #76
    EddieLarry

    EddieLarry

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    Joined: Jul 04 2020

    Posts: 174

    1

    White fragility - White flight

    Admin:  Post removed for promoting racist ideas and racism, user blocked.

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  • Mon, Jun 07, 2021 - 5:31pm

    Tina S

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    Joined: Mar 25 2015

    Posts: 22

    3

    economic conditions

    I'm not talking about cultural differences, but the economic and social conditions that directly impact people's lives.  Black people  were forced to come here, forced to stay here and forced to live under deeply oppressive conditions for centuries.  That's a completely different conversation that what you are offering.

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  • Mon, Jun 07, 2021 - 6:02pm

    Tina S

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    Joined: Mar 25 2015

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    4

    interesting conversation

    His main comment was that as a whole "Black America opted out and lost itself in a quandary of its own making" and that Black American declined "a challenge to compete on common ground".   I don't see any substantive evidence of that and do see plenty of evidence of the establishment creating structures that bar or make it very difficult for black and brown people to compete on common ground.  I do think it's completely possible that the white liberal elite created more problems.

    Yes as you say "It seems some of the largest corporations are using "wokeness" to profit." I think that is just a craven marketing ploy.  It has been my sense that PP'ers are generally in agreement that our economic system has fostered massive and increasing economic inequality.  Which affects all races but black and brown people more profoundly.  I don't think the corporate mindset is actually rational because history shows that extreme income inequality leads to the downfall of the system. Peter Turchin, anyone? Short-term greed rules a lot of ultimately irrational economic activity.  Including of course individual consumers taking on huge debt to get the next shiny thing.  If corporations actually wanted consumers to have more disposable income, then they wouldn't breaking unions and paying crap wages.

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  • Mon, Jun 07, 2021 - 6:16pm

    Arthur Robey

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    Freya Replies to Tina

    Frya has said we must not admit amongst us any but free people; but what have they done? They have imitated our enemies, and instead of killing their prisoners, or letting them go free, they have despised the counsel of Frya, and have made slaves of them.

    Because they have acted thus, Frya cared no longer to watch over them. They robbed others of their freedom, and therefore lost their own.

    The Oera Linda.

    Yes. Freya was deadly serious about the primacy of Freedom as a Value.

    She warned us not to mess with Lyda's people and if we did it would rebound upon our heads. And it has.

    (This too was Adolf's sin. He made slaves of the Jews. And look what happened to him.)

    Squeeze out your ulcers and learn wisdom.

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  • Mon, Jun 07, 2021 - 6:40pm

    #80
    nordicjack

    nordicjack

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    2

    I hate to debate racial equality

    Admin: Post under review

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  • Mon, Jun 07, 2021 - 7:01pm

    #81
    agitating prop

    agitating prop

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    9

    The New Peak Prosperity

    Admin: A non-additive post has been removed here that simply sought to promote the author's general distaste for this site and to sow discord.

    Chris Martenson:  I have decided to block Agitating Prop from this community for consistently taking potshots at myself, this website, and this larger community.  A.P. had declared that if Adam left, they would no longer return here and took some Parthian shots then.  So to have Ap come back and simply seek to be disruptive and rude to this community was the last straw.  Blocking AP was my sole decision and it's final.  Like all enterprises and endeavors, this place does better with people who seek to add constructively.

     

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  • Mon, Jun 07, 2021 - 7:23pm

    #82
    agnes xyz

    agnes xyz

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    1

    agnes xyz said:

    The interviewee couldn't have ruined Chris worse if he tried. Maybe he did try.

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  • Mon, Jun 07, 2021 - 8:04pm

    Ricearoni

    Ricearoni

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    2

    Amerikkka

    The statistics (FBI crime and otherwise) do not support the contention that any particular race is treated unfairly by the police.   New thresholds for prosecution in some places like CA (theft>$950) are no doubt desiged to muddy the stats now too.

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  • Mon, Jun 07, 2021 - 8:10pm

    Jim H

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    3

    deleted

    deleted

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  • Mon, Jun 07, 2021 - 8:21pm

    Ricearoni

    Ricearoni

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    Ricearoni said:

    Your comment is explicit cancel culture.   Agree with me or I (we) will make you suffer economically.

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  • Mon, Jun 07, 2021 - 8:50pm

    #86

    Boomer41

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Nov 30 2008

    Posts: 220

    11

    Race and Character

    My first-hand impression is that race is a secondary factor, much less important than character.

    As a small-business owner, I hired people for their ability, intelligence and work ethic. This resulted in the unforeseen outcome that half of my employees were minorities, mostly Vietnamese and Cambodian but also Blacks, Hispanics and one Irish guy.

    Most interestingly, if one of my managers or I made a mistake and hired someone who was of bad character, a shirker or otherwise morally challenged, that person never lasted long. We had no need to fire him/her. The culture was such that the bad apple was quickly identified by his/her peer group and quietly made to understand they didn't fit in. Most quit within a month or less.

    Based on this experience, I firmly believe that in present-day America (or anywhere else for that matter) equal opportunity does not result in equal outcome. Honest, hard-working people can and will be accepted as peers if they are nothing more than pleasant, clean and industrious. Anyone who is work-shy, dishonest or has a bad attitude will not succeed - regardless of their race.

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  • Mon, Jun 07, 2021 - 10:13pm

    #87
    2retired

    2retired

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    2retired said:

    One curiosity I came across when I was in Zanzibar, walking through the slave trade castles (which were active longer than in west Africa). Whities were considered the good guys, (and historically were responsible for bringing the slave trade to an end there), and the Arabs were the bad guys, and the racial group that ran the slave trade there (and apparently still do); an unexpected contrast to North America where there is expectation of white man's guilt.

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  • Mon, Jun 07, 2021 - 10:15pm

    #88
    Chris Martenson

    Chris Martenson

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    18

    The Topic of Race

    While I believe there are lots of potentially fruitful conversations to be had around race, those are difficult to have online.

    Further, this site is now under a microscope and I have a legitimate concern about people showing up to flop down the cancel culture cards in hopes of tripping up this site, if not getting it canceled.

    Especially we're going to have to exercise good judgment and discernement over what we discuss publicly, out here in the full view of the world, and what we reserve to discuss in the relative privacy of the member's area.

    In my personal experience, Jim H Kunstler is not a racist; he's a social critique and a public curmudgeon, but also one of the nicest and most thoughtful people you'll ever meet.

    Perhaps I have somehow failed to divine or detect Jim's inner racist after spending many hours driving to talks with him, sitting around campfires, and playing endless folk tunes (his singing is admirably bad, and I mean that in the best possible way because mine is worse), but I don't believe that's the case.

    But there's a larger issue here to relay.  I don't demand that I agree with someone 100% on all matters in order to engage with them or listen to them.  I do expect them to have thoughtful ideas and considered views.  What that means is that I will listen to and interview anybody.  And I will hear them out, whether I agree with them or not.  Heck, I had Angie Rasmussen on and I find her views quite distasteful.

    I somehow manage to learn something from everyone and that rests primarily upon my ability to listen without the need to inject my putatively superior thinking or morals into the conversation.  That's not the job of an interviewer, at least not a good one.

    I shouldn't have to say this, but apparently, I need to: the views expressed by guests are not necessarily my own, nor does anyone's appearance as a guest on my show constitute an endorsement of their views by myself or Peak Prosperity.

    If you want to hear a podcaster who only espouses your morals or views, then my interviews will surely disappoint you sooner or later, and I won't be the right one.

    All of that said, and to set the record straight, racism is very real, classism is very real, religious superiority beliefs are real, as are hundred other expressions of how humans divide self from other.  Those are all expressions of rigid belief systems, none of which I hold.  I treat everyone according to how they conduct themselves in life. Period.

    However, as worthy as they are, those topics aren't what this site is about or core to its mission and worse they risk attracting the cancel-culture hordes who I especially dislike for their strong-arm bullying tactics and weak ability to unpack and defend their many opinions and beliefs.  Their approach seeks to stomp out any hope of learning and growing while demanding conformity to their views (which they often cannot even articulate or defend properly, nor even explain how they came by them).

    I have no interest in any of that taking root here.

    In closing, a recent personality test I took (called a "NEO") scored me along many dimensions.  The one dimension I scored the highest at - way above average (3 std devs above) - was in the dimension of "diversity."

    This isn't your faux diversity promoted by the cancel culture.  This is the sort of diversity that's many levels deep.  Diversity of thought and openness to new ideas are quite literally my highest personal traits and values.

    Those are what I'm going to foster and defend here at Peak Prosperity every single day that I am here as the leader of this site.

    Bottom line:  No more comments or discussions about race here please.

    Thank you for reading this.

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  • Mon, Jun 07, 2021 - 10:45pm

    #89
    Bill in La Mesa

    Bill in La Mesa

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Dec 16 2020

    Posts: 95

    7

    Forum Wars

    I was group leader of a health related forum for over half a decade (killed by google MEDIC algorithm update).  Freedom of Speech has always been sacred in my book, but I was amazed at how damaging to the entire forum angry back & forth posting was.

    Once the entire "recent posts" menu filled with back & forth ranting on any given topic, the entire forum would go dead for a week or more.  Other members simply didn't care to have to dig through the back & forth to find content that interested them.

    Censoring members & content was the most difficult job I had as group leader, as I actually enjoy good debate myself; but every time I would let debate run wild, the forum would suffer badly.

    I actually have strong feelings about the current racial & political environments, but learned long ago, truly contentious issues are never resolved in cyberspace.  Please forgive Chris if he has to do a bit of moderating now & again.  It really is for the good of the forum.  Turn off too many members, & all that is left is anger & derision.  Eventually everyone simply wanders off, & you've got to rebuild the forum from scratch.

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  • Mon, Jun 07, 2021 - 10:59pm

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

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    1

    Re Forum Wars

    I often find two individuals can argue for hours before they realize they are saying the same thing and are the same page.

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  • Mon, Jun 07, 2021 - 11:08pm

    #91
    Pappy

    Pappy

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    4

    Judge each person individually based on their actions

    That is all.

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  • Mon, Jun 07, 2021 - 11:29pm

    #92
    Mysterymet

    Mysterymet

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    Joined: May 23 2020

    Posts: 241

    5

    Divisions in society

    We shouldn’t fight amongst ourselves. If we destroy ourselves as a nation, who benefits the most? That is probably who you will find is pulling the strings. When I was deployed it didn’t matter the color or religion of the person working next to me. We were one team and depended on each other to get the job done. We had a shared experience. It seems we have lost that as a nation right now. We are letting stupid things like demographics divide us when we really need each other to get through this. Our fight is not with each other but with the people pulling the strings. Let’s put a big wrench in their plans and give them the big middle finger just by getting along, treating others decently and not letting petty differences divide us.

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  • Tue, Jun 08, 2021 - 8:24am

    agnes xyz

    agnes xyz

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    3

    Thank you, Chris

    Thank you, Chris. Your point is well taken. Race discussions have nothing to do with this site. I was so repulsed that I considered not talking to anyone here again. I change my mind.

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  • Tue, Jun 08, 2021 - 9:58am

    jturbo68

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Aug 04 2009

    Posts: 243

    5

    Pls Reconsider AP

    I dont know if AP is willing to continue with this community.  I felt that her views were generally well thought out and worthwhile, despite not being comfortable for most here.   PP has very few left people that are willing to state an opinion and take the beat down by this primarily right audience. Maybe INTJ minds are mostly right leaning for some reason.

    If you block one of the few who are willing to stand up for the contrapoint, I feel you are driving this sight into a further back patting echo chamber, which it is much of the time.

    APs comments generally dont explode the forums, even if she can be sarcastic from time to time.

    Id like to hope that you will reconsider your position.  It does no good to dismiss the few lefts that are willing to post here.

    Thanks

     

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  • Tue, Jun 08, 2021 - 1:11pm

    Jane B

    Jane B

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    Joined: Dec 03 2020

    Posts: 23

    5

    Political Theatre

    "Maybe INTJ minds are mostly right leaning for some reason."

    INTJ here...nope and nope. I used to be Liberal, that is until I saw the man behind the curtain. It's been an interesting journey since. I have successfully broken out of the dogma and find truth on both sides. The anger that was trying to control me and divide me from family and friends is gone. My visits to social media echo chambers are scarce, as once the veil has been lifted, such visits bring sadness, witnessing what we have become. The Left and the Right are two heads of the same monster; bought and paid for by the same oligarchs. We are all being played...divide and conqueror is step #1 in reaching the goal.

    What initially drew me to this site is the ability of Dr. Chris to address and analysis complex topics without the political theatre. What currently keeps me here are the intelligent and challenging posters that feed my INTJ brain. However, the amount of "liberal" slamming on this site detracts from otherwise thoughtful posts. The majority of such posts would have greater impact by checking the bias at the door. I have grown weary of dragging around my salt shaker; I didn't think I would need it here. Thank you for your consideration.

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  • Tue, Jun 08, 2021 - 3:06pm

    Tina S

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 25 2015

    Posts: 22

    2

    Thanks, Chris

    Well I have learned a lot here.  I'm dismayed (now) that I chose to stick my toe into the PP waters after more than 6 years of faithful readership in such a way (the loud and proud comment) that would make people think I'm here to discredit the site.  I have half a filing drawer full of printed out PP posts (including comments) from all those years that I wanted to revisit because of so much thoughtful discussion happening.  And I was a paying supporter for a couple of years until I couldn't afford it anymore.

    My post was prompted exactly by my concern that JKH is a guest who will alienate people who otherwise would be super interested in what PP has to offer. And I want more people to find this site. But I'll have to think long and hard about the comments on who one chooses to interview - mixed feelings there. Anyhow it was a clumsy way to engage especially since I'm super aware that the site is "under a microscope."

    Obviously from the evidence of the last couple of days, you're correct that discussions about race won't be fruitful here. Nothing that's been said here has yet changed my views but has changed my understanding of the pitfalls of social media. I rarely do engage on social media beyond encouraging people exactly because the nature of it so often leads to these I'm right/you're wrong type conversations that don't get us anywhere.  Yet I hope that doesn't mean that the dynamics of racism in our society are off limits because otherwise I don't see how there can be an honest discussion about our world.

     

     

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  • Tue, Jun 08, 2021 - 6:18pm

    #97

    Stan Robertson

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Oct 07 2008

    Posts: 519

    4

    Reset postponed

    I do not believe that peak oil is imminent. Peak cheap conventional oil occurred in 2004, but somehow we keep meeting our oil needs while leaving several million barrels per day from Venezuela and Iran. Part of this is sleight of hand - counting natural gas liquids as oil, etc.

    The Saudi-Russian game of chicken with prices drove the oil price low enough to knock out our uneconomical shale production. U.S. oil production dropped from 13 million barrels per day to 11 million, but it seems stable there. This is consistent with what I see in the oil and gas reserve studies that I do for part of my living. I see a lot of new wells with 2 to 1 payouts at $65 per barrel and I see a very large resource base that can still be developed. If demand finally does overrun supply in a few years, that can probably be handled with price increases that bring new supply to market. We are likely to remain well below the equivalent of $100 per barrel that we had in 2008 for a good while. That was inconvenient but a long way from disastrous. On a finite planet, there must come a day when we reach peak oil, but in my opinion that is some decades ahead. If economic catastrophe occurs sooner, it will probably be because we have done something politically stupid like leaving the wokesters in charge.

     

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  • Tue, Jun 08, 2021 - 6:27pm

    #98

    Stan Robertson

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Oct 07 2008

    Posts: 519

    1

    Great conversation!

    I should have posted this first to compliment Chris and JHKunstler - my favorite scientist and my favorite author in a new studio. It is a rare treat to have such intelligence and knowledge on display for over an hour!

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  • Tue, Jun 08, 2021 - 6:56pm

    dappleddan

    dappleddan

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    for Isuzuki

    You poor baby. Enjoying your victimhood, I hope.

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  • Tue, Jun 08, 2021 - 7:15pm

    Cj Sloane

    Cj Sloane

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    Cj Sloane said:

    JHK lost me a few years back when he said women had 100% control over their reproductive futures.

    It turned my stomach at first but it reveals so much and almost makes him into a mensh.

    He only sees a world where a woman can walk into a bar and chose who to leave with. The guy who keeps striking out doesn't get to choose - he has no reproductive choice. Plus, in JHK's world a women can always choose to end a pregnancy. And I guess no women get raped in that JHK's world so.... yeah, they have 100% control over their reproductive futures.

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  • Tue, Jun 08, 2021 - 8:06pm

    21stcenturyoracle

    21stcenturyoracle

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    21stcenturyoracle said:

    I so wish I could remember my label yet I identify with your description of seeing the man behind the curtain and I too have been dismayed at Liberal elitism and agree the divide and conquer play out to well on Social Media.  Yet at this time, before the internet goes down, I still feel there may be a chance to shape the conversation.  Havn't seen the way yet hoping inspiration bubbles from the innate wisdom that keeps me from joining the sheeple rather remaining a grounded, pointing to a different direction to those who have eyes to see and ears to hear.

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  • Wed, Jun 09, 2021 - 1:47pm

    Whitney

    Whitney

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    Whitney said:

    Got it, thanks!

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  • Thu, Jun 10, 2021 - 9:27pm

    yracaz

    yracaz

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    Joined: Mar 23 2009

    Posts: 20

    1

    CJ Sloane

    Hyperbole

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 12:07pm

    Mipharm

    Mipharm

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    Posts: 6

    1

    Mipharm said:

    Yeah maybe, but I love listening to him.  He reminds me of the irreverent George Carlin.

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  • Sun, Jun 13, 2021 - 4:07pm

    mikies123

    mikies123

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    Joined: Dec 18 2020

    Posts: 9

    0

    medical nihillism

    Chris mentioned "medical nihillism" and Dr. McCullough called the reluctance to use HCQ or Ivermectin "therapeutic" nihillism.  I believe this relates: the reason PHARMA goes to third world countries to conduct drug trials is so they can injure,  murder people and get away with it.  That's what the Recovery and Solidarity trials did!  They murdered people (and got away with it) just to prove their nihillistic tendencies and move the vaccine agenda unfettered by cheap, safe therapeutic, life saving interventions.

    I agree with the sentiments of #3--   2Donks--  ...........so depressing (that our country has devolved to such a state of dysfunction).

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