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    Market Update: Comforting Lies

    Don't fall for them; now more than ever
    by Adam Taggart

    Friday, May 22, 2020, 12:58 PM

Last week’s observed bearish engulfing has so far proved a non-event as the markets continue to reach maximum stupid heights lifted by Jerome Powell’s recent soothing remarks to the nation on 60 Minutes.

The trouble is, so much of what Powell said in that interview just isn’t true.

He claimed the US economy was in a great place pre-coronavirus. The claim completely ignores the repo market rescue the Fed has been engaged in since September, in which it has been forced to provide hundreds of $billions to keep overnight repos functioning.

Even more duplicitous, Powell advised against worrying about the massive increase in $trillions of new debt the country is taking on right now. In his words, once covid-19 infections become contained, the country will return to growth and adopt a fiscally prudent program of paying down the debt.

What?? Powell knows first-hand this will never happen. He’s just not being honest with us here.

After all, he took over the reins at the Federal Reserve to preside over the unwinding of the Fed’s balance sheet, which had ballooned from $800 billion in 2008 to $4.4 trillion ten years later. But when he attempted to reduce the Fed’s holdings (aka, quantitative “tightening”), the market threw a hissy fit and Powell quickly capitulated.

He realized that today’s asset prices have become so dependent central bank support that ANY kind of tightening of monetary policy threatens to kill the markets. All he managed to do was shave off a few hundred billion before he was forced to start adding them right back via the Fed’s “not-QE” easing program that began in September.

So Powell really expects us to believe that we’ll be able to unwind THIS without collapsing the financial system?

The Fed has added nearly $3 Trillion of liquidity since March!! And as Powell said on 60 Minutes, there’s likely plenty more coming before this is over…

There are so many reasons to worry about your financial capital right now. If you’re sitting in cash, are you going to watch its purchasing power vaporize as the Fed (and the banking system) creates more $trillions from thin-air? If you’re invested in the markets, are you at risk for losing a substantial chunk of it in the near term if it turns out we are indeed in a bear market rally head-fake and a 50%+ correction ensues?

As we do each week, we’ve once again asked the lead partners at New Harbor Financial, Peak Prosperity’s endorsed financial advisor, to share their latest insights into the road ahead for investors.

In the below video, we dissect Powell’s statements and their impact on the markets, address the ramifications of the rising trade and human rights tensions between the US and China, and talk about potential strategies for those investors either holding either mostly cash or mostly stocks/bonds:

<

Anyone interested in scheduling a free consultation and portfolio review with Mike and John can do so by clicking here.

And if you’re one of the many readers brand new to Peak Prosperity over the past few months, we strongly urge you get your financial situation in order in parallel with your ongoing physical coronavirus preparations.

We recommend you do so in partnership with a professional financial advisor who understands the macro risks to the market that we discuss on this website. If you’ve already got one, great.

But if not, consider talking to the team at New Harbor. We’ve set up this ‘free consultation’ relationship with them to help folks exactly like you.

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102 Comments

  • Fri, May 22, 2020 - 2:28pm

    #1
    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jun 04 2012

    Posts: 442

    13+

    Speaking of comforting lies

    And all the data collected will be used to fight/treat honey badger! Really folks, honest!

    The Care 19 app will assign random ID numbers and “anonymously cache” people’s locations 24 hours a day. Users will be “encouraged” to divulge the nature of their daily activities, distinguishing work and grocery shopping and “given the opportunity to consent to provide their information”.

    Conflicts of Interest

    North Dakota Governor Burgum’s relationship with Microsoft founder Bill Gates dates back many years and the billionaire tech entrepreneur was one of Burgum’s biggest donors in his 2016 run for the state’s highest office, contributing over $100,000 to his campaign coffers. In addition, Burgum sold his Fargo-based software company Great Plains Software to Gates in 2001 for $1.1 Billion.

    North Dakota Governor Delivers Testing Ground for Mass Tracking Tech

     

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  • Fri, May 22, 2020 - 3:44pm

    #2

    thc0655

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 27 2010

    Posts: 2063

    1+

    “Be right and sit tight”

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  • Sat, May 23, 2020 - 6:24am

    #3

    LesPhelps

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2009

    Posts: 634

    10+

    Unpleasant Truths / Critical Thinking

    For years, I've wondered about why we raise our children the way we do.

    From the earliest years, we fill them with Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the tooth fairy and a host of other fantasies.  It's always seemed to me that we are training our children to be less than effective critical thinkers.

    Has anyone else had thoughts along these lines?

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  • Sat, May 23, 2020 - 8:13am

    #4

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1043

    15+

    I really tried not to say anything.

    I tried not to say anything, I really did, but it seems so logical to me that I have a hard time understanding how you’ll don’t see what I see.

    From - Financial Samurai

    Surprisingly though, stock ownership has fallen to only around 52% overall since the financial crisis. This is shocking and unfortunate since the S&P 500 has been marching to new record highs each year. Check out the latest data below. This is the latest data we have for early 2020.

    I understand that the demographics here are well-to-do, educated and I suspect predominately white.  So it makes sense to have a weekly post catering to that 52% demographic.

    However, I know for a fact that there are people here who are in the 48% demographic group and they/we do not get adequate representation with respect to our financial challenges.

    If real wealth is tangible wealth, like a warm sweater a child wears, the wooden toy a husband made, the craft business promoted on Etsy then why is there only weekly emphasis on the FED and what the stock market is doing?

    I bought into the tagline you guys created and am gullible enough to believe it.  “Create a world worth inheriting.”  But the actions and offerings sometimes do not reflect that tagline to me.  And maybe it was created to just be spin and the sites goal is really to create a good income. I am not sure.

    My point - a whole bunch of us are not wealthy and your weekly pandering to just one percentage of the readership does not seem fair and probably unintentionally excludes a large portion of your readership.

    My suggestion - every other week discuss, or have a guest writer discuss the economy and the impacts, changes and expectations for the working class.  You know those of us working stiffs who do not own stock and whose financial plan is to survive.

    Please understand that people want to be in a position to have a financial consultant and invest in the stock market.  But, for many, putting food on the table and keeping the lights on is a struggle!

    AKGrannyWGrit

    PS - I would appreciate support from anyone in the 48 percentile group.

     

     

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  • Sat, May 23, 2020 - 8:44am

    DaveDD

    DaveDD

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Sep 08 2019

    Posts: 171

    2+

    hmmm

    [edited]
    Hi Lesphelps,

    I have to respectfully disagree. In the Netherlands we have Sinterklaas (yep, the Santa Klaus is actually derived from this Dutch tradition). We give presents, write nasty poems, and sing many songs. As of a certain age, but before their 12th birthday, childeren are initiated in this big big lie, and they are told not to spill the beans to younger childeren.   Lately there are some issues with some racial sensitive persons, but overall, it is still the most popular festivity. Ok, here is why I disagree. A befriended psychotherapist once made the following statement: this lie teaches childeren not to trust adults, and not to trust men and women with beards telling big impossible stories while wearing dresses, and it confirms their rising suspicions. It doesn’t harm their wellbeing: Dutch childeren rate among the happiest and independent according to Unicef and some other organizations for years on a row (source,source ).Of course it is not a paradise and there are many issues, but Fairytales are not the issue imo.

    I think the issue is plain old biology and evolution. There is an evolutionary benefit in being obedient and less critical: disobedient childeren win the Darwin award and cannot procreate. With ever increasing complexity in our society, creativity, independence and critical thinking become more important (see for example this). These are all characteristics of independent thinking. This Ted talk (source) is very interesting because it seems to suggest that independent thinking is “limited” to ~3% of the people.

    On the other hand, maybe we should blame our education system:

     

     

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  • Sat, May 23, 2020 - 8:48am

    DaveDD

    DaveDD

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Sep 08 2019

    Posts: 171

    3+

    hmmm, maybe all we need some inspiration

    “The art of being yourself”, 26 minutes of your life. When I’m in need of a spiritual and i spiration boost, I watch this Tedtalk of Caroline McHugh:

     

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  • Sat, May 23, 2020 - 9:21am

    #7

    Eannao

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 28 2015

    Posts: 204

    12+

    Great presentation skills Adam.

    Hi Adam,

    Just wanted to say how much I'm enjoying your regular financial updates with New Harbor. You have become very articulate and clear in your presentation style, and I really appreciate your intelligent and sensible approach. Thanks!

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  • Sat, May 23, 2020 - 10:41am

    thatchmo

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Dec 13 2008

    Posts: 232

    14+

    thatchmo said:

    I tried not to say anything, I really did ;^).  BUT, Adam and Chris have graced/blessed/gifted all who would take advantage, a wonderful book, PROSPER, for FREE online.  Most content in that book will benefit all comers, rich or poor.  Really, what more could a person of low financial standing ask for from this outfit?  It's all there!  That being said, I will admit that my interest in the "market" is next to zero except for its possible role as a harbinger of future imminent disaster....I've even been tempted to petition NPR to stop giving "market" reports on their newcasts, because they just don't mean sh!t.  "Pandering..."  What?  I do listen to the New Harbor lads, even though I'll probably never re-enter the "market", because a person can't have too much info in these times.  But if you don't have use for that info, simply don't listen.  I hear you Granny, but I think your animus is misdirected.  Perhaps you might consider starting a Forum topic on the concerns and topic you feel is being neglected.  I'd read it, probably.  Hope all is going well up North, and folks are happy getting out.  Wishing all a reflective Memorial Day weekend...Aloha, Steve.  Old, white, financially secure (?) due to "still" working my ass off....

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  • Sat, May 23, 2020 - 10:58am

    eastcats

    eastcats

    Status: Member

    Joined: Aug 20 2011

    Posts: 16

    13+

    Amen, Grannywgrit

    I appreciate your comments and think you have some valid points.  To be fair to Chris and Adam perhaps our 48% were never the intended audience for this newsletter.  I started reading and sometimes subscribing because, I, too, felt something was coming and wanted to be prepared.  I certainly have benefitted from reading Prosper and used to love reading the gardening forum, which I miss greatly, and love the Singing Frogs video.

    Yes, I understand about rerouting cash to hard assets.  That's assuming you have cash to make the change.  I understand how the Fed is walking out on a limb to save the economy...mostly for the well-to-do.  I understand peak oil and that we have to seriously consider green energy, but cannot afford to put solar panels on my roof.

    I worked hard for almost 50 years and had a pension that got decimated in 2008.

    So much for following the American dream.

    So at this point I am simply trying to survive, find joy in every day and not eat myself up with worry.  I suspect that describes many of the 48%.  How many subscribers to Peak Prosperity?  Don't know.

    I believe that Chris and Adam are sincere in their writings and their attempts to understand and translate the big dilemmas of our current time.  I applaud all that they are doing to secure themselves and how they share that with the rest of us.

    Perhaps we need a subset of Peak Prosperity or a newsletter of our own which addresses other values: handmade lives, slowing down to the tempo of life rather than rushing through it to find the gold at the end of the rainbow, gardening as a way to enrich the environment, etc.

    Anyway, just wanted you to know your thoughts are appreciated.

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  • Sat, May 23, 2020 - 11:19am

    Steve

    Steve

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 27 2009

    Posts: 171

    13+

    We all have different investment options.

    I have benefited from this site.  I planted a garden.  It has been fun.  For years, I have watched videos, watched the crash course more than once and participated in discussions in the forum.  Just wish I had the financial resources to participate more.

    I agree with you AKGranny.  There are alot of us who don't have the financial resources to benefit from the dealings in the stock market.  I did speak with the New Harbor folks.  They were kind and informative.  But since their minimum investment was $100K (and as they told me, most of their investors had $3+ million) and the fact that I only had 85K liquid, they just weren't interested in taking me on as a client.

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  • Sat, May 23, 2020 - 11:25am

    #11
    Wilkins Micawber

    Wilkins Micawber

    Status: Member

    Joined: May 09 2020

    Posts: 8

    1+

    Financial Advisors in U.K.

    As a U.K. resident, New Harbor isn't going to work for me, I guess. Can anyone advise where to turn to in the U.K.? (I could pick a random financial advisor but how can you trust them? If there was a U.K. equivalent of New Harbor, I'd head there).

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  • Sat, May 23, 2020 - 12:18pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 754

    16+

    Yep, I'm among the "48 percentile" group (no lectures, please)

    ...and clearly not a NH possible client. I'm not personally in the ""markets"" (although I'm sure my modest pension is) and I'm not waiting on the sidelines with a stash of cash waiting for the best buying opportunity. Instead, I'm using every bit of time and currency to pay down debt, increase my preps (tangibles and intangibles such as skills and knowledge), expand my garden and preserve even more food, add to my pitifully small "stacks" of physical silver and fractional gold, and help my very small circle of family and friends to do the same.

    If I recall correctly, the respondents to the PP/Azurite (?) survey were, indeed predominantly white, higher income (many retired) males. Maybe this is the targeted, preferred demographic of PP. There was more within my analysis of the survey results that suggested to me that, if the survey results were representative of the PP membership, then I'm in the minority on many of the socioeconomic dimensions and some views.

    I'm OK with all that, but agree with Granny that there seems to be an imbalance here on the PP site and among the tribe re: content and views that lean heavily towards the already well-off, and less towards those with very modest resources struggling to keep our families financially afloat and healthy, food and supplies in the pantry, lights on, mortgage/rents and bills paid. Many of us with "weaker hands" are trying to stay afloat and not become, by default, some great buying/investment opportunity for those with "stronger hands". I know, its just business.

    Yes, I've learned a great deal from Chris, Adam and the talented and insightful PP on-line community. I "arrived" here in 2016 and wish I had come to this knowledge sooner--say maybe 10-15 years earlier when I was a single parent struggling to raise three children (one special needs) working in well-enough paying, professional jobs. Then I believed, and made life decisions both good and bad based on my perception of the false narrative that held that your home is an asset, people need to get a college degree/advance degree to get a good job and that "trusted" institutions and authorities could actually be trusted and were actually in authority, possibly there because of some special knowledge, skill or vision acting for the greater good. Of course, now I know better, see with greater clarity and act with a more focused, effective purpose.

    Regardless and for better or worse, my choices today are limited by my decisions and actions made prior based on the best information and resources I had at the time. I own that: no "victim mentality" here, thank you very much. This is the state of affairs for most people who actually have choices or recognize that they actually have choices. (Not going to get into a philosophical debate on this....)

    The pandemic and Chris' YT and other social media have brought a larger, potentially different demographic to PP. This is a great opportunity to reach out and engage this potentially younger, more economically and socially diverse population to the PP website and on-line community. The comments on the YT videos and other social media suggest that many of the commenters are struggling, lower-income, "working stiffs". Railing against the absurdity and catastrophe of the manipulated ""markets"" and central bank printing of digital currency to the benefit of the elites/1% is enlightening and sometimes cathartic, but it doesn't change the fact that many struggling people (myself included)  are in need of the "stimulus" payments to get us through the immediate, near term and/or fortify for the next wave of pandemic/economic impacts.

    But when YTers, social media guests get "here", they find endless, albeit well-researched and passionate discussion about the efficacy of various coronavirus drugs and treatments, information and guidance of what to do with your financial/investment portfolio and "extra" currency, and (to a much, much lesser extent) some information and suggestions about gardening, food preservation, and raising animals.

    I'd like to see greater PP balance, with more information on building resilience through practical steps and suggestions from experienced mentors or accomplished "experts". The information may well be located elsewhere on the PP site (i.e., through the "Resilience" tab) but it is not searchable by topic/contributor (still the result of the yet-to-be-fixed, very poor PP site search function). There are few feature articles on practical skills, building resilience and even fewer current discussions about those articles.

    So yes, I'd like to see greater balance and PP bandwidth that addressed concerns and resources of the "48%" of the woke, struggling and possibly exhausted minority of less well-off PP guests/members. This may well be a decreasing minority as more people visit and/or join, and then leave as they find PP less and less relevant to their interests and needs.

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  • Sat, May 23, 2020 - 1:07pm

    thc0655

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 27 2010

    Posts: 2063

    13+

    Santa Claus and other subjects

    Yes, Les, my wife and I were thinking exactly along those lines when we had the first of our two children in 1982. We never told them anything about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny (Etc) because we wanted them to believe us for the rest of their lives when we told them about the birth and resurrection of Jesus, and whatever else we taught them about life. We watched practically no teevee so we thought we insulated them pretty well. But our first born came home at age four one day and ASKED US if WE had ever heard of Santa Claus! 😁 She got that whole story from a playmate. She knew already very well the difference between reality and make believe so we explained that Jesus was real and Santa Claus was make believe. She said, “That’s what I thought.” She agreed to tell her friend about Jesus but let her find out on her own that Santa Claus wasn’t real. So, how did they turn out? They’re independent critical thinkers, our son bordering on cynical. In fact I sent them both one of Chris’s first videos in January, advising them that they would be wise to pay attention to the virus as it looked like it was going to become a big deal. After watching the video my daughter responded, “So I guess the economic impact is going to be worse than the actual virus.” 😳 I agreed.

    Granny, I sort of agree with you but not really. Think of this whole video series on the Honey Badger Virus that Chris and Adam have exhausted themselves with since late January. I’d say about 93% of the content was relevant and helpful for the bottom 48% you speak for. Then there’s the free Prosper book download which is for everybody. The Crash Course, the signature content of PP, is for everybody. So, what additional content should Chris and Adam provide for people who live paycheck to paycheck? I suggest you do the following: 1) identify content you’ve seen elsewhere that would’ve been good here, 2) provide a list of 5 topics that could be covered here, and 3) list three personalities who could be interviewed here and on what subjects. Where I used to workout at the YMCA they have a pool, yoga classes, childcare and  a basketball league that I never use. I’m quite happy with the aerobic machines and weight room. So maybe you could be happy with the excellent content and conversations you find here, and learn to supplement them with valuable content elsewhere. That’s what I do. I have other sites where I can learn about and discuss things like armed self defense, civil war 2.0, politics and whatnot that aren’t covered here at PP. It’s like what they tell people in Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous, “Take what you need and leave the rest.”

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  • Sat, May 23, 2020 - 2:22pm

    #14
    Chuck in Belize

    Chuck in Belize

    Status: Member

    Joined: May 23 2020

    Posts: 19

    28+

    I think I found a new home

    I am new to the enrolled members list but have been watching for two months.
    It was time to participate, not just watch.

    Dr. Martenson, and Mr. Taggart, my hat is off to you, Sirs.
    You show integrity in everything you have done so far that I have seen.
    The world sure needs more of it, and I deeply respect you for what you
    have done, and what you are doing and your courage in doing it.

    I live in a third-world country whose haphazard response to the pandemic
    has produced economic damage beyond belief, power-grabs, shortages,
    and (sadly) even abuse of people by authorities.

    I'm planning to use what little influence I have here to open some local eyes,
    and engage some local brains. The situation here is hopeless, but not serious
    at least so far. (as Pogo might have said).
    Thanks to you, and also to your supporters.
    I have found a place I belong.

    Chuck

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  • Sat, May 23, 2020 - 2:25pm

    #15

    Adam Taggart

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: May 25 2009

    Posts: 5509

    20+

    Become the change you wish to see/take what you need & leave the rest

    Granny -

    You bring up this critique every time  we post the weekly market update.

    I'm going to repeat what I posted last week:

    I agree with you that more exploration of covid-19's impact on Main Street would be appreciated here on the site.

    But let me offer a little context as well as an invitation:

    In the just past week, Chris and I have recorded/published interviews with Sergey Young (technology's promise & risks), Neil Howe (the 4th turning), Grant Williams/Mike Maloney & Charles Hugh Smith (the Fed), five daily coronavirus update videos, and the video above with New Harbor (markets).

    Then there are the irons in the fire...more interviews on energy, the adjustment reaction, food resilience, etc...plus our regular writing and daily videos.

    My point here is to say we are *still* running at the redline producing as much relevant content as we can, every day, 100+ days after publishing our first alert on the coronavirus. And yet there are many issues that deserve more attention than we have the bandwidth to cover.

    That said, I wouldn't say we're "silent" on the implications for Main Street. Chris' daily videos updates are geared to focus on the health and economic ramifications that the everyday household needs to be preparing for. And I recorded an interview with Chris,  John Rubino and Charles Hugh Smith last month on the topic of "What comes next?", which was entirely focused on how life in general will change for the masses.

    So, if you'd like to see more exploration of a topic on this site than we two humans have bandwidth to offer, Chris and I would welcome it gladly if you'd take up your own challenge and start a Forum discussion on it. That's exactly what the Forums are there for.

    In short: you have a great idea and we're encouraging you to run with it!

    We're receiving a lot of positive kudos for these weekly update videos. The past three videos have received ~250,000 views on YouTube alone -- so there is clearly a sizeable audience that enjoys them. As long as that remains the case, they're not going to stop anytime soon.

    So instead of cursing the darkness, I invite you to light a candle and start a Forum thread on the topic(s) that interest you most.

    And if you choose not to... then I encourage you to follow the good advice that thatchmo, thc0655, and others have suggested here. Chris and I are going to continue to focus our time & talents on producing the highest quality content we can across as many relevant subjects as we're able to. There will hopefully be many that interest you, and some (like these videos with New Harbor, clearly) that won't. "Simply take what you need and leave the rest".

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  • Sat, May 23, 2020 - 3:04pm

    #16

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1043

    6+

    I am standing in the unpleasant truths line😳

    Thank you for your responses.  I appreciate that many of you took the time to respond and share your personal thoughts and story!

    Today I heard that the unemployment rate could be 30% by June.  Holy cow that is greater than the Great Depression.  From my perspective thats a subject that warrants discussion.  I do realize that may not a major concern for many here but I think it will be a far more important contributing factor to our future than the virus was.  I was just suggesting that every other week the financial report and podcast could put emphasis on the working class.  But since that was not a warmly received suggestion then I will move on and see this as an opportunity to fulfill a need myself that is not being met.

    I too agree the videos are beneficial, giving away the book is generous and have gotten great value from the site over almost 10 years.

    So with the quote “be the change you want to see” I will be off on a new adventure. But that does not me I won’t be lurking and commenting here.

    AKGrannyWGrit

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  • Sat, May 23, 2020 - 3:37pm

    #17
    MQ

    MQ

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Oct 13 2011

    Posts: 122

    The rich and the poor of it all

    I've been poor nearly all my life. During a relatively more prosperous period, my husband and I had a bi-coastal marriage while he was working in MA and I was in WA while our daughters finished high school. Our older daughter was going to be valedictorian of her class--definitely not the time to move her--and so, algebra dictated that I spent an additional year in WA so our younger daughter could graduate there. (You know, what you do to one side you must do to the other...)

    Keeping two households going took a good share of our prosperity. But, we always knew that ours was a voluntary poverty, so I never felt really poor. When our kids were younger and I had to be around some of the snooty townspeople for school programs, I just wore my jeans and flannel shirts and my Grandma's pearls.

    Getting to the point of this post--even though I have not had the money to invest, I have found it valuable to know what is going on in that artificial world, since it will probably affect me and mine and usually not in a good way. My older son was born in 1971--yeah, I'm an old lady-- and it was clear to me at that time that real wealth was something that royalty and peasants have always known; land to grow food, a sturdy shelter, friends and allies, and a few tangible assets to trade if ever the SHTF or you needed ransom gold. The middle class seemed too dependent on the favor of others. Too many times in history, princes and paupers both have been cast into the cold with only what they could carry, plus, most important, the knowledge they have accumulated. Guarantees aren't worth the breath it takes to speak them. I have been prepared for something like this all my adult life.

    Certainly not to say life has been full of pessimism. The Dalai Lama says the purpose of life is to be happy.

    When I found Chris' site, I felt I had found a kindred mind. At the very least, I have been interested enough to follow his progress through the years.

    I, too, felt a disturbance in the Force?? last summer, fall and winter. When the Alert was sounded, it was with almost a sense of relief that someone else realized the Wuhan shutdown was extremely serious and it was time to get real about the future.

    I, for one, am very glad that Chris has had the wherewithal to be able to devote his time and intelligence to research this pandemic. Do I wish I were a bit richer? Well, sure, but I've spent my time gaining knowledge and experience and having adventures. There has always been enough. I have most of the tools I need. Do wish I had a well...

    I don't think I'm one of the 48%. No, I've never been one of the crowd. But, I do feel I found my tribe with this group. I don't expect to find the answers to all questions here, besides, we already know it is 42, but I do value the insight and ideas I find here.

     

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  • Sat, May 23, 2020 - 3:46pm

    dmath

    dmath

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 17 2014

    Posts: 8

    5+

    dmath said:

    I'm more concerned that they believe preachers rather than scientists.They get beyond Santa and the bunny before junior high, but the religious stuff doesn't die.

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  • Sat, May 23, 2020 - 8:14pm

    LesPhelps

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2009

    Posts: 634

    15+

    LesPhelps said:

    People’s religious beliefs are about as flexible as their politics.  Good topics to leave alone.

    Science is another matter.  Have you noticed that government and corporate funding of science has virtually destroyed that field?  And, I’m not even referring to government funded science producing pandemic level pathogens.

    Funding determines what scientists will focus on and, to some extent, what their research will reveal.

    I’m not nearly as enamored with science as I once was.

    Science advances one funeral at a time.
    - Max Planck

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  • Sat, May 23, 2020 - 11:33pm

    #20

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2134

    19+

    paying the bills

    Here's an utterly pragmatic question for those in the 48% who feel like the site needs to focus on them.  Who do you think pays the bills here at PP?  And why do they continue to do so?

    PP provides a lot of free content for everyone.  At the same time, it needs to provide value to those who pay the bills.  If it doesn't do this, the site dies.  [I don't have any special insight into how PP is run - I'm just making the usual assumption that any small business must provide value for their paying customers, or else they'll go out of business.]

    PP doesn't need to focus solely on the bill-payers.  And it doesn't, as you well know.  But it can't neglect them, either.  Unless of course it wants to go out of business.  So if this kind of thing isn't meaningful to you, skip it!  That's what I do.

    For instance, Chris talks incessantly about planting a garden.  I'm not in a place right now where I can plant a garden.   Do I implore him to drop the whole garden thing, and focus more on apartment-dwellers, like me?  No.  I watch the garden material, file it away somewhere - maybe someday I'll be able to plant one - but for now, garden-planting isn't relevant to me.

    And yet I still find a great deal of value here.

    Glass = half full.

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 1:00am

    Pipyman

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 24 2011

    Posts: 109

    5+

    Lol 😊

    Granny, your comments really make me smile. As have John Michael Greers in the past which were given face to face. I share some of the “distaste” You seem to point to; largely due to my past not my present. However, Chris and Adam have gifted me with so much I really find it easy to overlook. I think Chris’s ability to empathise with the lives and concerns of the poor is very limited, but, that’s not why I come here. I would humbly suggest you consider the same....

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 4:20am

    urban planner

    urban planner

    Status: Member

    Joined: Nov 15 2016

    Posts: 39

    5+

    I’m with you

    Wealthy white males may indeed pay the bills here, but that’s a very small proportion of the overall population. And forums are great but tangential. We are absolutely not looking at the biggest, most important event in our history - a global economic collapse that will starve millions and impoverish billions while a few hundred thousand run for the hills and maybe deign to let a few of us plebs come work their land in a literal Neo-Feudalism. Whatever happens we can expect tyranny and mass death - unless we, the non-elite, openly reject it. Don’t think just because you’re an upper middle class prepper you’re in the winners club. This is so NOT about wishing for a return to the old exploitation that created and is amplifying the greatest wealth inequality in history and it has nothing to do with wether your laborer bought a $60k truck you can afford but he can’t. That level of privileged condescension utterly misses the point.

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 5:03am

    #23
    VeganDB12

    VeganDB12

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jul 18 2008

    Posts: 223

    7+

    whose condescension?

    Firstly, not all paid members are privileged white males.  Secondly not all of us grew up privileged. And for those who did perhaps some are the most prolific contributors on the site. I am sad that Granny chose not to take Adam's challenge but hopefully others will. I would contribute. As would others here.  Chris has immense information for people to be self sufficient, to live off grid and make their way with little money. Take a look.

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 5:08am

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2134

    10+

    sure thing

    This is so NOT about wishing for a return to the old exploitation that created and is amplifying the greatest wealth inequality in history and it has nothing to do with wether your laborer bought a $60k truck you can afford but he can’t. That level of privileged condescension utterly misses the point.

    Well I can see you are upset, but I'm...not sure who you are talking to here.  I don't even own a truck.  Or a car.  I have used motorcycle, about 15 years old.  No debt.  "Collapse now, avoid the rush."

    Anyhow.  So until götterdämmerung actually occurs, our founders must pay server bills, electric bills, tech support bills, and bandwidth bills each and every month.  Or else the lights go out.

    Here's a thought.  You can contribute here, or you can show us all how it is really done over at your new site.

    And fund it ... somehow...

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 5:54am

    #25

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1043

    1+

    Amen Urban Planner

     

    My requests to have a financial report every other week that focuses on the working class does not seem unreasonable to me.  The economy is worse than we are being told.  Consider that the “models” said 2 million people in America were going to die from the virus.  Didn’t happen.  I suggest the same people are using models for our economy that are wrong as well.  Our grave is being dug.  Bankruptcies, foreclosures, unemployment, sales, practically no one is buying cars houses, airplanes. Oh, the exception is weapons.  Did you know retail weapons manufacturers were considered essential. Yep, that should tell you something.

    People are sheltered at home, comfortable in their houses and do not see the utter devastation.  Just get in your car and drive around a city and look.  Look at how many cars are parked at Goodwill and then look at any retail store.  Our economy and the world as we knew it is entering a meat grinder and its only going to get uglier.

    We are absolutely not looking at the biggest, most important event in our history - a global economic collapse that will starve millions and impoverish billions .....

    This is the biggest story in our lifetime. And all the well-to-do that supposedly pay the bills here (we all pay though) will see their life impacted and irrevocably changed as well.

    You all seem to want me to be content with the status quo.  But the ship is sinking, the grave is being dug and ball is rolling faster.  And because people are snug at home watching the FED and stock market they can’t see the convulsions and gasping that are going on.  You may not comprehend the dire nature of whats going on and how it is affecting people, but you will eventually!!!!!

    Chris and Adam are basking in the warm glow of accolades, and well deserved too, I absolutely acknowledge that.  But they live sheltered lives and get their information online and digitally.  Devastation will show up online and in the numbers after the fact.  After millions of people have been affected and traumatized.

    I know what your thinking, if I don’t like the status quo and am not part of the group think - go away.  Just remember Granny and Urban Planner saw it coming.

    AKGrannyWGrit

     

     

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 6:11am

    #26

    LesPhelps

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2009

    Posts: 634

    3+

    I was sad because I had no shoes

    If you are feeling left out because Adam focuses on investments that you can’t afford, consider looking at the other end of the spectrum.

    I watched a 20 minute video yesterday about the Navajo Nation.  I doubt many, if any, people who frequent this website are as impoverished as the Navajo, or as helpless in the face of this Pandemic.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-navajo-nation-health-care-cbsn-originals/

    I can fall in the trap of thinking everyone has the choice to improve their personal health by changing their eating habits.  Occasionally, I’m reminded that this is not the case.

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 6:30am

    #27

    Oliveoilguy

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jun 29 2012

    Posts: 793

    14+

    Granny....please put me in the correct category

    I’m not sure where I belong .....in the 48% or not?  I grew up comfortable..then I was out on my own and very poor accepting handouts from a local church just to feed my kids. I always worked hard and grew organic gardens and was hand to mouth for probably 10 to 15 years. Then I started building stuff and was very good at it and have made some good income busting my ass for 40 years in home construction. I’m 69 years old and still climbing roofs and also I’m still growing my organic gardens. I’ve made some money through no fault of my own and I have some investments. My friends are rich and poor it makes no difference. Please Granny....tell me what category to be in.

    All seriousness aside.......I don’t view people through a lens of rich or poor. I see people as people ......and honesty and truth are my lens for looking and judging.

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 6:46am

    LesPhelps

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2009

    Posts: 634

    6+

    Still Privileged

    OliveOilGuy,

    Yeah, but, are you a white male, cause that still puts you in the only demographic group that our society tolerates criticism of.

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 6:47am

    #29
    Mary59

    Mary59

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 09 2020

    Posts: 91

    5+

    Call to Readers - Please add other LINKS- MAX Resources

    Good Morning

    Whenever there was work to be done and the bosses were all busy, I often took it upon myself to go ahead and lead.

    This got me almost fired several times in the hierarchical fuedal system I was working in but sometimes big bosses would notice and thank me.

    I do not know how to start a new forum.  I couldnt figure that out...so I am going ahead here and if anyone knows how to start a new forum then perhaps we can transfer this info to that.

    OK So I start the thread or forum

    MAX Resources

    This thread is sppropriate for all but focused on the needs, wants and issues of the "48%"

    I guess most basically this list of links can answer the following questions.

    1 How can regular (the 48%) people access more money during this time?

    2 What are ways to "create" resources/more resources?

    3 What ways can people access IN KIND resources or services?

    4 What are key networks out there to help?

    5 What sectors are helping beyond government and how to access those sectors?

    6  How to stretch resources efficiently?

    7 How to access free things and where to access free things?

    8  How to access free services and where to access free services?

    9 Can PP start an informal CRAIGS list sort of thing for the members?

    10 Where to access others to boast moral and mutual support /groups/etc?

    To start - here is a link

    https://www.prepperprincess.com/

    I have followed this site and find it really balanced.  She has alot of very good ideas and practices what she preaches.

    This is information mostly about how one can maximize the resources they do have but at the same time she invests for the future also as she can so it is very good.

    Her ideas are within reach for most people.

    In terms of me helping personally.  I don't have money but I make soap. I make soap from saponified palm oil locally grown here in Panama, sustainably produced. It is plain simple pure white soap with one ingredient - saponified palm oil - that is it.

    If anyone wants some, I will post it registered post from here which takes a while to get to the USA.

    Totally free - please PM me with your address and a contact number or email for the post office.

     

     

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 7:18am

    #30

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1043

    2+

    No good deed goes unpunished?

    All seriousness aside.......I don’t view people through a lens of rich or poor. I see people as people ......and honesty and truth are my lens for looking and judging.

     

    OliveOilGuy

    This isn’t a rich versus poor issue.  People are being devastated.  Owners of businesses, workers, professionals etc.  And yes a number of  people are not in the stock market or have a lot of extra to invest, they are being affected even more.  That in my mind is worth talking about.

     

    If you are feeling left out because Adam focuses on investments that you can’t afford, consider looking at the other end of the spectrum.

    I watched a 20 minute video yesterday about the Navajo Nation.  I doubt many, if any, people who frequent this website are as impoverished as the Navajo, or as helpless in the face of this Pandemic.

    I am not feeling left out because Adam focuses on investments I can't afford.  Why do you assume I am poor, jealous and a victim because I point out that a huge portion of our society has been and is being harmed?

    The Great Depression has been talked about for decades!  No one wants to talk about this one, I find that incomprehensible.  What will it take before people say “holy shit” people are suffering?  Guess we will find out.

    AKGrannyWGrit

     

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 7:46am

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2134

    13+

    response to granny

    Response to Granny, point by point:

    * My requests to have a financial report every other week that focuses on the working class does not seem unreasonable to me. [Yes!  Write it!  I would like to read it!]

    * The economy is worse than we are being told.  [Yes]

    * Consider that the “models” said 2 million people in America were going to die from the virus.  Didn’t happen.  [Agree]

    * I suggest the same people are using models for our economy that are wrong as well.  Our grave is being dug.  Bankruptcies, foreclosures, unemployment, sales, practically no one is buying cars houses, airplanes. [Agree]

    * Oh, the exception is weapons.  Did you know retail weapons manufacturers were considered essential. Yep, that should tell you something.  [Agree]

    * People are sheltered at home, comfortable in their houses and do not see the utter devastation.  Just get in your car and drive around a city and look.  Look at how many cars are parked at Goodwill and then look at any retail store.  Our economy and the world as we knew it is entering a meat grinder and its only going to get uglier.  [Agree]

    * This is the biggest story in our lifetime. And all the well-to-do that supposedly pay the bills here (we all pay though) will see their life impacted and irrevocably changed as well.  [Agree]

    * You all seem to want me to be content with the status quo.  [Disagree]

    * But the ship is sinking, the grave is being dug and ball is rolling faster.  And because people are snug at home watching the FED and stock market they can’t see the convulsions and gasping that are going on.  You may not comprehend the dire nature of whats going on and how it is affecting people, but you will eventually!!!!!  [I can see it.]

    * Devastation will show up online and in the numbers after the fact.  After millions of people have been affected and traumatized.  [Agree]

    * I know what your thinking, if I don’t like the status quo and am not part of the group think - go away.

    [Disagree....back in 2006 when Chris saw trouble coming, did he complain at someone else, hoping he could poke them into doing what he wanted if he jabbed at them often enough?  No.  He took action.  He provided the content he felt was required to get the job done.  He created his own website, crash course, and so on.  He took action.

    Now you have the chance to do so too.  You can make a difference.  Like all things worthwhile, it will require a fair amount of effort.  Alternatively, you might just be content to only complain, trying to prod someone else into doing the heavy lifting.  This is put up or shut up time, Granny.  You have a unique perspective.  How can you expect rich white men to understand the situation you see so clearly?  Doesn't that just sound crazy on its face?

    So the question is, do you have what it takes?   I suggest: take all the energy you spend complaining - that's a fair amount of energy - and direct it towards providing us the bi-weekly commentary.  As someone who provides daily commentary - let me tell you, a bi-weekly commentary feels like a vacation.  Just saying.

    I for one am very interested in seeing what you might come up with.  I know something is wrong, but I'd love to hear chapter and verse.   I hope you take action, and will not be content to just sit back and complain and hope some rich white man will do it for you.]

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 8:46am

    #32

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1043

    6+

    Dave

    You are right, I will.

    Chris talks about and teaches belief.  I believe the motto of  this site “Create a world worth inheriting” is the only way our world will survive!  My definition of that statement means caring about people in general.  Many, I think want to create a world worth inheriting that includes me and mine.  And to hell with you and yours.  My incorrect assumption is that the majority would believe as I do that only by caring for our brethren will we truly create a world worth inheriting.  Evidence is provided in ever so many ways that the predominate thinking, including here, is creating a world worth inheriting focuses on me and mine.  It’s disappointing that I do not perceive this site as being directed by this motto and treating it as a guiding principal but a tag line.  Certainly, my expectations are the problem.

    Challenge taken Dave!

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 9:16am

    #33

    Adam Taggart

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: May 25 2009

    Posts: 5509

    27+

    Very misguided approach

    Granny said:

    ..the ship is sinking, the grave is being dug and ball is rolling faster.  And because people are snug at home watching the FED and stock market they can’t see the convulsions and gasping that are going on.  You may not comprehend the dire nature of whats going on and how it is affecting people, but you will eventually!!!!!

    Chris and Adam are basking in the warm glow of accolades, and well deserved too, I absolutely acknowledge that.  But they live sheltered lives and get their information online and digitally.  Devastation will show up online and in the numbers after the fact.  After millions of people have been affected and traumatized.

    I know what your thinking, if I don’t like the status quo and am not part of the group think - go away.  Just remember Granny and Urban Planner saw it coming.

    Granny, you have been given this feedback before: your presumptuous and antagonistic approach often offends the very people you're trying to influence.

    Your claims that Chris and I live such sheltered lives that we can't see/can't relate to/don't care about the plight of the millions who are being crushed by the current economic impacts of covid-19 are so off-base and downright insulting.

    You don't know the paths we've walked. You don't know what's in our minds. Or that both of us have experienced poverty and crushing debt, been laid off, and have struggled with the financial and mental health challenges of supporting family members through bankruptcy, disability and loss of job prospects. Just on Wednesday I participated in a support group with small business owners struggling to find a way forward after their revenues disintegrated in March.

    And you clearly don't understand why we watch the Fed and the markets so closely. It's not because we want to "be content with the status quo" or "pander to one percent" of PP readers.

    It's because the Fed is the biggest villain in this story! More than any single party or entity, the Fed and the other world's central banks are responsible for the zombie economy that is now failing and shedding tens of millions of US jobs and devastating American workers' earning prospects. For years to come. Decades, quite possibly.

    The Fed is also directly responsible for the maximum stupid (the title from last week's market update) bubble heights the financial markets are at -- which is exacerbating the deeply unfair and corrosive wealth inequality in this county.

    As Chris and I have been loudly shouting: this "rescue" by the Fed and Congress is only making the rich better off while the remaining 99% is getting shafted.

    Until we as a society identify and admit the problem -- that the Fed is the enemy here *not* the hero -- we are ignoring the root cause of our pain and thus ensuring it will continue.

    You say:

    they can’t see the convulsions and gasping that are going on.  You may not comprehend the dire nature of whats going on and how it is affecting people, but you will eventually!!!!!

    That Plutarch quote we cite so much? We constantly repeat it because we are so concerned that this will end badly -- French Revolution blood-in-the-streets style -- if the current trajectory continues. We are damn sure NOT blind to the stakes in play when the elite starve the masses of their rights, freedoms and future prosperity.

    In just a few hours, I will be posting a podcast we recently recorded with Fourth Turning researcher Neil Howe on this very topic, including discussion on what steps we as concerned individuals (of all economic backgrounds) can do to help alter the trajectory or, should we fail, reduce our odds of becoming collateral damage.

    Granny, you have been advised repeatedly over the past months to find a more constructive tone that doesn't require us to step in as frequently as we've had to lately.

    The other posters here have been very eloquent and gentle in saying: Stop the chronic complaining. Stop the demands that this site jump to your tune. If there's a discussion you want to hear, start one yourself. As invited, you're welcome to use our Forums. Or as Dave suggests, start your own website focused on exactly what interests you.

    To that, I also add: stop the judgmental presumption. It's in violation of our Site Posting Guidelines and, as one of the frequent targets of your off-base criticism, I can say first-hand it diminishes the sense of tribe we value so much here at PP.com.

    Over 550,00 users have visited this website since April 1. In that time, there are perhaps only two or three other users who have required us to step in to moderate as much as we've had to do with you. There's no bandwidth left for continued attempt to "fix" your demands for satisfaction. Please take the advice offered in this thread. If not, moderator review is the likely next option.

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 9:44am

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2134

    10+

    riding to the rescue

    Granny-

    I will be very interested to read your material.

    FWIW, I do not think there is anyone out there who will be riding to the rescue of any member of PP.  Nobody will rescue the 48%, and nobody will rescue the 51%, no matter how much we collectively whine.

    Instead, we have to figure out, for ourselves and our group, what actions we should take to make the best of the predicament we are in.

     

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 9:46am

    Pipyman

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 24 2011

    Posts: 109

    10+

    Actually

    “I know what your thinking, if I don’t like the status quo and am not part of the group think - go away.  Just remember Granny and Urban Planner saw it coming”.

    I was thinking if you know what is on Offer here why are you looking for what’s not being sold? I’m guessing Chris wouldn’t go to the poor side of town for market analysis or commentary on the fed’s machinations!

    You seem to be eminently more qualified to talk about the experiences of the poor. Why don’t you write something and send it to Chris? Perhaps he’d learn something and maybe post it? I know I’d read it.

     

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 10:21am

    Oliveoilguy

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jun 29 2012

    Posts: 793

    7+

    “People are being devastated”

    Granny.....I think it’s a given that people are being “devastated” as you said. And this forum is a template for action to overcome some of these problems. There are great tools here that anyone can use to improve one’s position. Chris and Adam can’t do everything to right the world’s wrongs, but they are delivering on their promise to provide honest, science based content as they search out truth. It is your individual responsibility to take what benefits you and your friends and your family and run with it. They are doing a fantastic job in my humble opinion.

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 10:23am

    #37

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1199

    10+

    Something for all of us to ponder AKGranny

    I really do feel for you on some level because some years ago I became overly obsessed with my differences with how leading voices on this website were allowed to depict the nature of the precious metals markets.  I eventually gave up commenting on that subject matter completely because I was simply banging my head against the wall.  I came to terms with it, and I focus on the constructive instead.  In fact, Dave and I have found lots of common ground through this pandemic, and I am glad for that.

    That being said, one statement Adam made in his note to you really sticks out to me;

        Over 550,00 users have visited this website since April 1.

    Wow!  Our little truthy idealist resilience science-based community has exploded with newfound influence!  What we write here has more potential red pilling power than ever.  For me, this community offers a place to stay sane in the face of extreme cognitive dissonance... and the more each of us puts up thoughtful and thought-provoking constructive content, the better.

    I guess the bottom line for me is this;  We all have frustrations with the way the world is.  I had to change myself a bit in my approach, as described earlier, and I have been moving forward happily.  What we write here matters - 550K potential readers strong! That is a gift.  Don't look a gift horse (Adam and Chris) in the mouth : )

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 10:54am

    #38

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1043

    2+

    Adam

    In the almost 10 years I have been here people have come and gone and been banned.  Not one time can I remember you or Chris writing lengthy detailed posts to publicly shame another member.  It’s interesting that I seem to warrant special treatment.  Recently Crapper and Desogome (sp) were banned and you did not spend time creating and posting a detailed character attack.

    I am admonished to stop judging and yet I am the recipient of a character attack and am harshly and publicly judged.

    God grant me wisdom to discover what is right. The will to chose it and the strength to endure it.

    You love the e-mails of adoration but bruise your ego or say something that offends you and you attack.  The message is walk on egg shells or pay the price.  I am too old to be told to shut the f-up.

    I shall go.  What I will miss are the members.

    AKGrannyWGrit - and I still got grit!

     

     

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 11:31am

    herewego

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Aug 11 2010

    Posts: 144

    15+

    herewego said:

    Hi Granny and All,

    I've been mostly too busy gardening and doing my office job (remotely) to read all the comments, but this debate did catch my eye. For my part:

    I've been a paying member at PP for close to a decade.  White, female, "poor". (I own my own tiny house, tiny garden, tools, and excellent second hand bike.  No debt, no car, no more travel, decent medical care, fabulous water, incredible location, plenty of joy.  You decide.)

    My income falls below or just above the poverty line since I moved here, so this has been a really large outlay of money for me.  I've wondered sometimes if it's too much, esp. in CAD.

    So far I've stuck it out, despite content irrelevant to me.  Clearly most people here have more money than I.  My "big move" was selling a tiny condo and buying 1/8 acre in a tiny village, where I am VERY lucky to have a steady job with a tiny income.  BTW, 1/10 acre can grow way more food than I can eat, though not so far, protein.

    But a huge part of why I finally made my big move was PP.  The big-picture is a critical part of how I balance and chose a course of action, and Chris and Adam specialize in that.  So I stay.

    A focus at PP on low-budget prepping would be awesome and lots of us know about this.  I am fully booked, between full time work and running a market garden, so it won't be me setting this forum up, but I will participate, happily, and I've learned a lot about homesteading in the past 8 years.

    BTW, the free book Chris and Adam are offering used to cost money, and I bought it.  It is a great book with excellent context-shifting content and I hope you all get yours and read it!

    It's not easy to listen to people go on about buying gold if paying bills is the struggle at hand.  It really isn't. The red flag of economic injustice kinda just waving there in your face.... But that doesn't make me not want to be here.  I just have to filter a lot out.

    More information sharing about developing our individual recognition and fostering of our relationship with primary wealth would be just great.  That is the basic transaction isn't it?  How does an organism like me exist and thrive inside a biosphere like planet Earth?  How does a community like mine accomplish this? Which parts of this lie within our sphere of influence? Sun, soil, seed, water, human attention, know-how and good will.  That's become my starting place. Thankfully, others around me are mastering animal husbandry, machine operation and repair, water systems etc.

    A huge plus in the cultivation of primary wealth skills and awareness is this:  a gratitude down to the bones for a lifetime on Earth, excruciating challenges not-withstanding, and knowing the joy of a human soul turned loose in this garden for a few decades.

    Maybe PP can be a place where people with all kinds of relationships with all kinds of wealth can be, learning about the big picture and all its details together.

     

     

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 11:35am

    #40
    Redneck Engineer

    Redneck Engineer

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Mar 16 2020

    Posts: 81

    Alternative Market Plays

    If someone is strongly convinced the market is headed drastically lower in the near future, and has the ability to make advanced, sophisticated plays, what would be the big play?

    It doesn't take much sophistication to step away from stocks and bonds and into hard assets.

    What about shorting the market or using leverage on a short play?

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 11:35am

    #41
    kunga

    kunga

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 361

    8+

    Grateful

    Thank you Chris and Adam for setting up this site with all the free information and offering a place where others with knowledge in many subjects can contribute.  I think most here are givers, not users, and provide survival information useable by all.  I never understood about money until I was in my forties, my parents didn't know, and for sure, school doesn't teach it.  Already behind the eight ball.  Studied a lot of history to try to catch up.

    I have been homeless several times in my life.  I am just very lucky right now. I was able to finally understand, twenty years ago, things were going bad and have slowly been able to build up to some independence.  It takes study, focus and a plan and it is a marathon not a sprint.  Thank goodness for the internet and the public library.  And luck and prayer.

    That being said, it must be frightening and frustrating for many many people now, to say nothing of the virus fear.  I read the stories of the hoards of hungry rats roaming the cities of closed restaurants and wonder how I would have fought them off sleeping in that abandoned garage.

    Speaking of gardening, it is still the bottom of the sunspot cycle and the temperature here is going from below freezing last night to over 90 F by Thursday.  Weeds, weeds, weeds ...  Good luck to all.

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 11:54am

    DaveDD

    DaveDD

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Sep 08 2019

    Posts: 171

    6+

    @AKGrannyWGrit

    Hi AKGrannyWGrit,

    Please do take Dave’s challenge. Although I understand Adam’s sentiment, I also understand yours. I for one, like many others considering the ongoing discussion, would like to read your contributions. Actually I do agree with many things you state (not perse about PP, but definitely about the “silent, vulnerable majority”), and in all honesty, many times you make me chuckle.

    I think that PP is a reasonable small, mixed and in general well behaved community with a reasonable reach. If you think PP is unbalanced, here you have a tremendous platform to share your view, your thoughts, actions, but formost your advice!

    As Adam and Chris provide us this service (for free), it is fair to accept their terms and conditions I think.

    And finally I have the opportunity to ask question you something that I was dying to ask: are you really a Granny with grit and an AK??

    Cheers!

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 12:14pm

    #43
    Linda T

    Linda T

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jun 09 2014

    Posts: 132

    3+

    Re: Granny, Dave, and Adam

    Granny:

    “You are right, I will.

    Chris talks about and teaches belief.  I believe the motto of  this site “Create a world worth inheriting” is the only way our world will survive!  My definition of that statement means caring about people in general.  Many, I think want to create a world worth inheriting that includes me and mine.  And to hell with you and yours.  My incorrect assumption is that the majority would believe as I do that only by caring for our brethren will we truly create a world worth inheriting.  Evidence is provided in ever so many ways that the predominate thinking, including here, is creating a world worth inheriting focuses on me and mine.  It’s disappointing that I do not perceive this site as being directed by this motto and treating it as a guiding principal but a tag line.  Certainly, my expectations are the problem.

    Challenge taken Dave!”

    I agree with some of that, and I also suspect a lot of people feel that way, but are scared to admit that to themselves and to others, if they do, what then?

    None of us have lived through anything like what we’ll be living through, and the cultural narrative we have been indoctrinated with makes it very difficult for us to imagine the how do we get from here to there… Charles Einstein and others talk about it, and write about it, but that’s a far cry from the actual doing of it. I’ve read, and think it’s a good analogy, that the current paradigm we live in (of competition and greed) is dying, and in its death throes another paradigm (cooperation and sharing) is being born. It’s like moving from one ecological succession to another one, which was, for me, was an important analogy I learned from John Michael Greer’s “The Long Descent”.

    Since our current cultural narrative doesn’t and won’t allow for much room to start birthing our new paradigm, our new narrative (which in a weird way helps us during the transition). The old narrative is currently dying and a lot of the 1% are freaking out, trying their darnest to maintain power and control. This particular aspect has been written about by many authors for several decades, and is being written about more and more, both online and in print. The new narrative/jigsaw puzzle has a lot of pieces missing, and we (here as well as out there in the physical world) need time to start talking and imaging it, then taking steps and doing things. How do we create it? What do we want it to look like? And feel like? Just as a house, or a piece of art, a new garden, etc. it starts in our imagination. What do I want? What do I need? How can I do that? How can I share what I have? What do I have that I can share? What skills do I have (which is a big one)? What can I do to help others? How can I ask others to help me? etc. Which can all change, as we use, hopefully, more critical thinking, asking questions, give ourselves and others time, precautionary principles, accepting feedback from Nature and others, adapting and modifying plans…

     

    Dave,

    “Now you have the chance to do so too.  You can make a difference.  Like all things worthwhile, it will require a fair amount of effort.  Alternatively, you might just be content to only complain, trying to prod someone else into doing the heavy lifting.  This is put up or shut up time, Granny.  You have a unique perspective.  How can you expect rich white men to understand the situation you see so clearly?  Doesn't that just sound crazy on its face?”

    Yes, it does. Just as crazy as a white person trying to understand what a black person sees, etc. etc.

    “So the question is, do you have what it takes?   I suggest: take all the energy you spend complaining - that's a fair amount of energy - and direct it towards providing us the bi-weekly commentary.  As someone who provides daily commentary - let me tell you, a bi-weekly commentary feels like a vacation.  Just saying.

    I for one am very interested in seeing what you might come up with.  I know something is wrong, but I'd love to hear chapter and verse.   I hope you take action, and will not be content to just sit back and complain and hope some rich white man will do it for you.]”

    When I first learned of peak oil, after my initial 6 weeks of major funk, shock, anger, and disillusionment realizing the future wasn’t going to be what “they” promised and I had been expecting. I discovered Kathy McMahon’s Peak Oil Blues website which helped a lot and I even posted my “story” which was quite empowering, for lack of a better word. Also, Carolyn Baker and Sharon Astyk. In the meantime, I kept reading and researching the various pieces of the jigsaw puzzle and learning about the interdependencies, like an ecosystem. Taking classes (basket weaving was one), asset-stripping and buying hand tools, sewing, gardening, candlemaking and cheese making supplies, and books, etc, reading some of them and thumbing through others... A few were fiction, and I’m not the only one trying to imagine what the steps might look like for us as we continue our falling off the cliff and end up in a world similar to the one in which Kunstler portrayed in his “World Made By Hand” series. Starhawk also wrote one, “The Fifth Sacred Thing”. Even as I continue to accumulate books, I wonder and imagine… We are the ones that need to come up with the questions and answers to fuel our collective imagination. We can’t expect ourselves (myself included) to have all the answers when we are starting from a place of “I don’t know”, to expect ourselves to know everything about everything is impossible, a disservice and a lie.

     

    Adam,

    Thank you for your last post. I do agree the Fed is the biggest villain but would also like to add a few others to the list, Big Pharma, Big Ag, AMA, the Deep State, Gates, and Fauci (and there are others).

     

    Granny,

    I hope you don’t go. I don’t think Adam was attacking you, I think he was trying to help you understand and see more of what they are doing behind the scenes (which they haven't done for others that I've seen), why so much attention on the Fed and the markets (which is so heartbreaking for me to think of the impact on the millions and millions of lives), and more of their backgrounds, and I appreciated the information.

     

    Linda

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 1:32pm

    #44
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 754

    9+

    A simple request gone awry

    Wow! Well, this conversation certainly went quickly off-kilter! I read, and responded to, what I believe was a simple request to provide more balanced PP content for those (~"48%") with more modest resources.  I'm surprised and a bit disappointed as to how this simple request was received. I don't feel it was an unreasonable request.

    I think Granny and others acknowledged, with appreciation, the great value of the existing content and service Chris, Adam and others within the PP team and tribe (such as DaveF's excellent daily PM briefings) provide. Much of the PP content is provided for "free", underwritten in part by the paying PP members and purchasers of Prosper! and other PP products and services.

    I'm a PP Premium subscriber and I bought the book Prosper!  I'm glad that my purchases help in some small part to "pay the bills" for unique free and subscriber-only PP content, as well as for the enormous amount of work that makes this site function. I also contribute articles for possible posting to the PP Daily Digest section, which often times provides additional perspective, information and insights into current topics that may/may not covered extensively elsewhere on the PP site.

    Adam is correct in that the "Market Mayhem" videos and articles are well-received, racking-up about 278K views combined for the past four weekly videos (per YT counts).  Still, this represents a smaller viewership than the Covid YT video series, which garner anywhere from 100K-450K views per video. Not counting the viewer/share stats from other PP social media or PP website, PP is obviously reaching a very large, diverse audience. Chris, Adam and the entire PP team have worked tirelessly to bring this outstanding, valuable content to a broader public, for which I and many others are very, very grateful.

    As I noted in my comment above, this represents a great opportunity to expand the PP tribe, segueing from the current pandemic/economic crisis into greater awareness and  broader content about the  "Three E's" (energy, economy and environment).

    The subgroup of the curious, knowledgeable and/or with financial resources to invest in the ""markets"" is obviously smaller than those interested in understanding and taking informed action concerning the coronavirus. Are we all affected by these fiscal and economic gyrations? Yes, to varying degrees directly or indirectly of course, so at least some of the information is helpful regardless of whether one has an investment "portfolio".

    I recall the PP/Azurite survey results, if representative of the PP membership, suggest that the PP membership (or at least the survey respondents) is predominantly American, white, male, middle/retirement aged, and above average/higher income. If this is the target audience for PP, then they've apparently met this business objective. I felt that a few of the survey questions were embedded specifically to identify possible "leads" for NH. (This is fine considering that survey participation was voluntary, PP paid for the survey and is transparent about its business relationship with NH.) Virtually all of the PP podcasts and articles feature contributions from those fitting the above profile. Many current members (myself included) and visitors do not fit this profile and may have other interests and needs different from those of the PP membership majority.

    Whether or not others here appreciate/tolerate AKGrannyWithGrit's "tone", or view her comments as "complaining", "judgmental", or overly critical of Chris or Adam and their work; I believe that she voices concerns and a perspective that gets little attention here on the PP site. Specifically, those of lower/low-income, working class individuals and families, or younger people with modest or few resources trying to manage through this current crisis, which is deteriorating into what appears to be a long emergency.

    Regarding PP content, IMO this is not a binary choice of focusing content to either the "~51%" majority or the "~48%" minority. Some content, such as gardening (e.g., from sprouts to container gardening to Hügelkultur raised beds) is adaptable or within the means of most people regardless of socioeconomic status and so would be relevant and perhaps of interest to a broader audience of PP guests/members.

    Many PP members within the "~51%" majority are reaping the rewards of a lifetime of hard work, and a longer journey and affiliation with PP of over a decade or more. Your success and resilience are commendable and inspirational. I didn't perceive the request for content for the less well-off as disparaging others' hard-earned success.

    But others are elsewhere in their journeys, some caught on very shaky ground as the this pandemic/economic seismic shift upends all aspects of life already on the precipice. They are looking for information and solutions to help them survive this mess, emerge intact and just maybe in a better state if possible.

    Some longer term PP members may find these conversations tedious, redundant or off-putting as they have already addressed and incorporated actions to live resilient lifestyles long ago, perhaps jolted into awareness from the GFC of 2007-10 or by ongoing Fukushima nuclear crisis begun in 2011.

    The PP website now has more than a decade of great discussions, information and insights from long-term members, but it is very difficult if not impossible to locate in any organized manner due to the site search function limitations. This is no small matter and it seriously impedes information sharing, learning and discussion among PP guests/members. (For example, I searched the site unsuccessfully for a recent post  about a Walipini greenhouse.)

    Thus the voices and rich lessons learned from past and current PP members is buried on the site due to functional limitations. (These were to be fixed some months ago with by a new PP IT vendor, I believe.) Additional content and voices addressing a broader audience may be helpful, but it may already exist elsewhere on the site. Similarly, more current and focused discussions on the "Forum" side of the PP site tend to be "tangental" (as another commenter noted), receive less traffic, and are soon buried chronologically with the advent of newer Forum topics. Again, a more robust search function might help with this limitation.

    It seems counterproductive to me to reinvent what already exists, or fail to address the interests and needs of a substantial but current minority of the PP audience. Indeed, if people do not find what they are looking for here at PP, they will go elsewhere. That would be an avoidable and unfortunate loss on many levels.

    Lastly, I'd be upset if AKGrannyWithGrit were moderated into oblivion from the PP site. I believe that Adam and Granny are reasonable people and should be able to come to some understanding through a PM private conversations, even by phone if necessary. Obviously they are not communicating their respective concerns very well, but Adam holds the last word via his role as Moderator. While some may applaud this action, I believe this will have a chilling effect on PP participation.

    We are entering a very long, dark and dangerous period. As a community, I hope we can each try harder to be more understanding, tolerant and helpful to each other and guests as we navigate through this long, multifaceted emergency.

     

     

     

     

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 1:52pm

    Linda T

    Linda T

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jun 09 2014

    Posts: 132

    4+

    Re: fruit trenching and fruit walls/Walipini greenhouse

    Sparky1,

    I just finished reading your latest post and thoroughly enjoyed it and agreed with it.

    I can actually help you with the Walipini greenhouse post since it was mine. I just need to find the proper Word document with it, and I'll repost it as a new topic thread.

    Found it...

    Linda

    Added: I don't remember how to create a new topic thread, so I'll add it below:

    For over 10 years, I have wondered about the history of greenhouses and what was used before all these huge panes of glass and Polyethylene sheeting were the in-thing. I have tried getting a book on the history of early greenhouses and could only find one book, but it didn’t answer any of my big questions.

    I happened upon an article a couple of days ago about fruit trenches! In Northern Russia of all places!!! In very cold temperatures too…

    In case you’ve also been curious and been wondering about having access to citrus and other tropical fruits that travel great distances, as supply chains continue to break down even more and we’re living instead of just reading Kunstler’s “World Made by Hand” books. (I know a lot of fruits, vegetables, and berries have varying amounts of Vitamin C, but some of the articles I’ve been reading about anti-virals include lemons, ljmes, and other tropical fruits as good sources.) If that’s the case, I’m including some links which also have some cool pictures (most are black and white, but there was one website that had color pictures which was a nice contrast) which I found fascinating.

    https://www.resilience.org/stories/2020-05-15/fruit-trenches-cultivating-subtropical-plants-in-freezing-temperatures/

    https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2015/12/fruit-walls-urban-farming.html

    https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2015/12/reinventing-the-greenhouse.html

    Now I have a better idea of what to search for, I’ve been looking for information on fruit trenches and fruit walls (but so far not a lot of information on the how-to-do-it), and I found these:

    “Fruit Trenches: Cultivating Subtropical Plants in Freezing Temperatures”

    https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2020/04/fruit-trenches-cultivating-subtropical-plants-in-freezing-temperatures.html

    I also found this one, it had the same pictures, but with some green color instead of black and white.

    https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2020/04/fruit-trenches-cultivating-subtropical-plants-in-freezing-temperatures.html

    And, I found a source for plants and they have several types of fruit that survive temperatures into the low teens.

    http://mckenzie-farms.com/photo.htm

    I was also excited this came up during my search. So, rather than starting a new topic, I thought I would post my comment here.

    https://www.peakprosperity.com/walipini-style-greenhouses/

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 2:20pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 754

    1+

    LindaT, thank you for fruit trenching/walls, Walipini greenhouse info!

    Linda, thanks so much for digging-up your earlier post and adding some additional resources on fruit trenching and fruit walls/Walipini greenhouses. I've researched this in the past as it may be a viable solution to my empty and in-need-of-repair in-ground swimming pool. The other option I've research is a "natural swimming pond" with the potential for aquaponics. If I pursue this, it may be an ongoing project for which I may call upon you and others within the PP tribe for advice. 😉

    Thanks a million!! 🙂

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 2:23pm

    #47

    Oliveoilguy

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jun 29 2012

    Posts: 793

    10+

    PP as we enter the new paradigm.

    I would like PP to do more articles and discussion on gardening, canning, livestock, personal protection, and general homesteading stuff. I sincerely believe the new wealth is a flock of chickens, a garden, and a gun (sorry to have to say that). Whether you are on 1/10 th of an acre or a large ranch survival skills are what matter.  I have chickens now for the first time and I have fallen in love...(kinda...)They seem to like me.

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 2:43pm

    Linda T

    Linda T

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jun 09 2014

    Posts: 132

    3+

    Re: fruit trenching and fruit walls/Walipini greenhouse/ aquaponics

    Sparky1,

    You're welcome, my pleasure, happy to share my excitement about the topic. Wow, some cool options you have there. I initially was very interested in aquaponics, but couldn't find some way that didn't involve a lot of resources... Filters, motors to run the filters, parts involved, etc. One of the reasons I have been interested in history, how did we do things before the glut of fossil fuels and the emphasis on high tech methods? Same dynamic with greywater harvesting... lots of money involved in designing high tech, fragile systems. In one of Art Ludwig's books on greywater, I found the valid point, why spend a lot of money on a system that is bound to fail and possibly no longer used, use low-tech and simple, which is what I did in Santa Barbara. We used a system of 2, 5, and 19 gallon buckets, and kept track every month. Only 2 people in the house and the homeowner was able to unhook the washer so the wash and rinse water could be collected in the 19 gallon buckets. 700+ gallons without fail each month. BUT very important to use 100% biodegradable dish soaps, shampoo, conditioner, laundry detergent. We then used the 5 gallon buckets to water what needed watering...

    Linda

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 2:52pm

    Adam Taggart

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: May 25 2009

    Posts: 5509

    17+

    Who Doesn't Love Chickens!

    OOG --

    Great photo!

    Amidst everything else, we have been working very hard in the background over the past several months investing in partnerships to give PP the resources and infrastructure to produce/curate much more of the kind of resilient living "how to" content you're talking about.

    This is a *big* undertaking, as the subject matter spectrum is vast. But we anticipate that, in addition to today's PP readers, there are a lot more people (millions?) who will soon be waking up to the need for living less-dependently on the system. Being able to offer them a practical, easy-to-follow curriculum is one of the best ways we can think of for PP.com to make a real positive difference to the future.

    We'll share more on this in the coming months as we move from the strategy/planning phase into development.

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 2:56pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 754

    4+

    OliveOilGuy, LoL, you must be in the 1%, include "chicken farmer" to your biosketch

    OOG, When it comes down to it, none of us really "fits" snuggly into any specific category. But you are indeed special, so you can occupy the missing 1% "Other" category not identified in the lively discussions regarding the ~51% vs. the ~48% above. 😉

    Congratulations on your new flock of chickens! I increased my flock on my urban permaculture 1/13 acre "homestead" to 15, now including six fryers (X Cornish/Red Rock?) for the first time. I can't legally "process" them at home, nor do I want to having done that only once and...yuk! Thankfully, I found a local processor before buying the fryers. The others are prolific egg layers. Tip:  if you're going to "harvest" your chickens sometime in the future, don't name them.

    I would also be interested in/would contribute to some of the additional topics you've suggested.  Thanks!!

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 3:07pm

    #51
    kunga

    kunga

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 361

    5+

    The timing of being born

    Believing in reincarnation, I have to hope there is some, tho unconscious, choice involved.  In my youth in the 1950s, 60s and early 70s, life in the US for a white person, straight male, especially, was not too hard.  Even kids often could find ways to make money, I picked a lot of strawberries and beans, others babysat or had paper routs or worked with their parents.  Money was worth something.  College in California, esp. junior college was basically free.  In the 60s, if you didn't like your boss, you could quit, walk down the street and get another job that afternoon.   Now people are scrambling to pile up worthless fed notes, using every underhanded way they can and/ or going into debt just to survive.  I think sound money, being paid an honest wage in inflation proof currency, is the only solution.  I am interested to see what the youth vote will chose, honesty, integrity, hard choices or socialism and more worthless fiat.  The seven deadly sins are still deadly.

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 3:54pm

    #52
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 727

    20+

    “Create a world worth inheriting”

    WOW.

    First off I would like to say there certainly is a lot of misplaced anger, resentment, and blame.

    I first became aware of Chris Martenson sometime in 2007. A friend from OZ  who was good friends with Damnthematrix who some will remember, sent me the article Chris had written called "The End of Money" .The title alone was enough to spark my interest. I watched  the Crash Course as Chris released them one at a time. I never joined or posted I just followed the info. To be clear I already had the Environment and Energy part of the three E's down. (I was using a ram pump in 1975). My environmental heroes were Edward Abbey  and Dave Foreman. Some might know of them and so know what my approach to the environment is.

    I already knew economically there were 2 classes, the screwheads and the doomed. I did not really have much interest in knowing the mechanics until I read Chris's article. Disclosure in my 55 years of work I have been below poverty line most of it. If I was a foreign country I would qualify for foreign aid. That said thanks to the info Chris was putting out I was able to accumulate gold and silver and advise my daughter to do likewise. I took my entire life savings as did my daughter out of the bank. It was some of the best financial advice we ever got. I have a friend who is invested with Berkshire/Hathaway. I told him to get out of the market when it was around 14k. He had 21 million. I told him to buy gold ($870) He blew me off. 2 years later when the Dow had gotten just above 5k he told me I was right. He had lost 14 million. I wasn't right Chris Martenson was right.

    I have gone years w/o reading anything here then a few years ago popped in and it seemed like a good time to become a member and join in the discussions. I did so mainly because of Cryptocurrency. There was starting to be more discussion here so it was a logical step. I was gifted my first BTC when it was $10. It is now around $9,000. Clearly it is a volatile speculative asset. It is not for everyone. Well it could be if you are not too attached to a rock solid safe paradigm. It happens to be a day traders dream. It can move hundreds in the blink of an eye. You do not need a lot of money to buy some and it is easier to open an account on an exchange than opening a bank acct. I posted a tip on Tezos when it was .30. it is now $2.70. I doubt there is one person here who bought any.

    The point is there are opportunities to improve your financial situation. I was in real estes for a brief time and my broker told me (1985 when interest rates were double digits) "you can make tons of money in a falling market" He was right, but I didn't grasp it or know how at the time.

    Chris and Adam owe no one here anything besides what subscribers pay for. They run this site as well as any site I have ever visited. The breadth of the content is absolutely off the charts. i have never seen another site that can compare. It is as everyone knows based on the three E's . Well economy is one of those. They are not responsible for anyone's personal micro financial situation. They provide , for free, a ton of macro information and provide resources which many can take advantage of.

    People would like to see more gardening or this or that. Everyone here has a computer. There are numerous places to find anything you want to know. It does not all have to be here. One can go to the forums and there are tons of topics posted. There is entirely too much reliance on Chris and Adam to be all things to all people. This site is about resilience. Everyone has to look at their own situation and figure out for themselves based on lots of factors micro and macro how best to do that.

    I remember when some friends and me would go to a music festival we would put a tarp down and hang. Invariably people would wander on and want to hang. we would ask them "what are you bringing to the party? You got something to drink? eat? smoke?" If they didn't have anything to share they were invited to go find another place to hang. I have seen a number of people here complaining about this or that and some ofthem just don't bring anything to eat, drink or smoke. It is pretty easy to complain and criticize but what actionable info are you bringing to the party. This site is for more than just discussion. This is an online tribe where we share what we know to help the rest of the tribe. No one and I mean NO ONE shares more than Chris and Adam in exchange for NOTHING. That to me is one helluva a deal.

    Disclaimer; I have never owned a stock in my life, but my wife said to me last night "Damn we should have bought some Moderna a few weeks ago" LOL

    So yeah the motto is "Create a world worth inheriting", it is not come here and we will create a world worth inheriting for you. Waking up is also realizing as Chris has said "You are on your own"

    I apologize for being so long winded.

    Thank you Chris and Adam.I could have done it without you but you guys sure made it a lot easier. And a big thanks to all have made real contributions with your information.

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 4:09pm

    #53
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 754

    2+

    CanadianPrepper: "WARNING: The Absolute WORST Case Scenario" (video, 5/24/20)

    Nate of CanadianPrepper vlog provides a concise, plausible albeit dire scenario of possible outcomes during 2020. How have/will you prepare for aspects of this scenario that you think are likely to happen?

     

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 4:57pm

    #54
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 754

    7+

    Revisiting, updating PP Wikis for practical information

    There is information (some dated) on the PP Wikis section on this PP website that new and longer-term members may find useful:  https://www.peakprosperity.com/wikis/

    Wiki topics include: Food Storage; Growing Your Own Fruits and Vegetables; Personal Safety and Home Defense; Selecting a Firearm; Emotional Resiliency; and Home Energy.

    This is apparently the collective work of PP members, and includes the following suggestion, "And if you have the expertise to offer, please edit or add to these wikis accordingly."  Some of Wiki content and links could be refreshed and additional, newer content could be posted. However, I didn't see how to accomplish those edits and additions, or a description of the process of vetting of content for appropriateness and accuracy prior to posting. Is there a place on the PP site where comments concerning these topics are housed? If buried within the "Forums", is there a way in which these are organized to facilitate access? Lastly, is there a place on the PP site where content and comments regarding major events (e.g., the Great Financial Crisis, the Fukushima nuclear disaster, and (currently and in the future) the novel coronavirus/Covid-19) are/will be archived?

    Could Adam or someone more familiar with this process provide assistance?  Thanks!

    🙂

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 5:14pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 727

    9+

    Good Find Sparky

    How have/will I prepare? Well PM's, and crypto for finances. I was quite happy to hear him say they will go up.

    Extremely deep pantry. We have greatly expanded the garden. BTW for those in apartments you don't need a garden. Buy as much as you can and dry and can ro create a deep pantry.  I think food shortages are definitely coming.

    We have cut our expenses. We are doing home improvements. We are buying as much necessities as we can, such as tools and gardening supplies.

    I have posted this before but I saw this coming in 68. I was part of the "back to the land movement " of the 70's. There were tons of us getting set up. A lot of us for one reason or another have moved on but have kept that ethic. Truthfully I thought maybe I would get out before the big one happened but here I am. lol. So most of my preps have been ongoing for 45 years.

    I bought (with some partners) 142 acres for $38 k in 74. Creeks, springs, ponds, barn, log cabin, about 45 acres of sandy loam pasture. By no means was it easy or paradise but it was the smartest thing I ever did. Even a blind raccoon finds a dumpster every once in awhile.

    Bottom line start from where you are, show up. pay attention, do the best you can and leave the results to god

     

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 5:35pm

    #56
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 754

    3+

    City Prepping, "Top 10 Immediate Threats We Currently Face" (part 1 of 2 videos, 5/17/20)

    Chris from CityPrepping vlog on "Top 10 Immediate Threats We Currently Face" (part 1 of 2, video, 5/17/20). This content is applicable regardless of whether you live in a city, urban or suburban environment.

    Have you completed your threat assessments for the immediate, near term and longer term? Which of these events do you think are more likely to pose the greatest threats and how are you preparing to mitigate these potential threats?

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 5:38pm

    #57
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 754

    1+

    City Prepping, "Top 10 Immediate Threats We Currently Face" (part 2 of 2 videos, 5/24/20)

    Chris from CityPrepping vlog on "Top 10 Immediate Threats We Currently Face" (part 2 of 2, video, 5/24/20). This content is applicable regardless of whether you live in a city, urban or suburban environment.

    Have you completed your threat assessments for the immediate, near term and longer term? Which of these events do you think are more likely to pose the greatest threats and how are you preparing to mitigate these potential threats? Are there any potential threats that have been overlooked in this video?  Thanks for sharing! 🙂

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 7:01pm

    #58
    dreinmund

    dreinmund

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 19 2011

    Posts: 44

    14+

    Granny complaints

    Wow, in Ron Burgundy’s words: that escalated quickly.

    I have been a member of many online forums, and seen “moderation” in many forms and flavors. Rarely have I seen as much thoughtful and considerate moderating than here. Hats off to Adam and the PP team.

    Secondly, it’s very clear that Granny has an axe to grind. Not sure why. But accusing Adam of “publicly shaming” her - I’m dumbfounded. Was there something deleted in this thread that I missed ?

    After repeated encouragement to “be the change you want to see”, all I can see is Granny continuing to complain. About FREE content. Jeepers.

    As with everything in life, nothing will ever be perfect for everyone. PP won’t. I’m running out of charitable explanations why someone like Granny would stick around complaining, without showing any constructive effort to DO something about it

    At any rate, I’m very thankful to PP and the Tribe. The information and knowledge presented here is unlike anything else I have found on ‘da webs’.

    And for those this doesn’t fit the bill - more power to you. Go an create something for the tribe that represents your view and issues.

     

     

     

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 7:39pm

    #59

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1043

    1+

    dreinmund

    I’m running out of charitable explanations why someone like Granny would stick around complaining, without showing any constructive effort to DO something about it

    I must have missed your charitable explanation!  All I heard was Oh boy I want to kick Granny too!!  Let me throw a little more criticism and condescension on the pile.

    Secondly, it’s very clear that Granny has an axe to grind. Not sure why. But accusing Adam of “publicly shaming” her - I’m dumbfounded

    Yep, from where I sit that’s my perception.  And it’s not okay to tell people they  are wrong if they don’t see the world as you do.

    One of the great things about getting older is your hide gets a little thicker still, I think your post was intentionally hurtful, unnecessary and not appreciated.

    AKGrannyWGrit

     

     

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 7:41pm

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2134

    3+

    alternative market plays

    Redneck Engineer-

    Shorting is not hard to do mechanically, but if you look over the long haul, mostly the market goes up, so you are going against the very long term trend here.  And the Fed, and Trump all want SPX to rise, so there's that too.  Trillions in money printing help to push equity prices higher too.  Just a caveat.

    An instrument I've used in the past was SH; it is a 1x market short ETF, so it doesn't decay, and you can hold it for a while without losing your shirt from a stupid structural problem.  And you can do this trade in a long-only account.

    If you have the trade permissions, you can also short the ETFs directly.  Use a stop - put in place when you enter the trade - so you limit your losses if you are wrong.  We are wrong often in life.  You could be wrong here too.  Don't short more than you have cash in your account.  If the trade goes against you, well, losses on short positions can theoretically be infinite.  So - use stops.

    Options are mostly a money-losing proposition, unless you know mostly for certain what the timing is.  You would want to have a put option - you can buy puts on SPY (the SPX ETF), or on any of the sector funds (some examples are financials: XLF, tech: XLK, homebuilders: XHB, energy: XLE).  You can look up the option prices for (say) 3-4 months out, and see how much they cost you.

    I bought some 2-month SPY and 4-month XLF puts immediately prior to the Feb/March crash, because I was confident on the timing.  Pandemic doubling times told me roughly when things would blow up.  In retrospect, 4 months was unnecessary; 2 would have been fine.

    Now - I have some puts I bought because of that German court ruling; I thought that the EU trouble will happen prior to the 3-month deadline, so that was the option duration.  Today I'm thinking it might take longer.  This is the problem with options.  You can be right as to direction, but if your timing isn't accurate, you lose your entire bet.

    So - short answer - my suggestion is not to buy options unless you have a fair amount of confidence about when something will happen.  In options, when is just as important as direction.

    So if you have a sense the market will drop, but you don't know when, then short is the better bet.  You won't make as much, but - you won't lose your entire bet if your timing is a month or two off.

    And - technically - you probably want to wait to go short until prices start to actually move downhill.  Shorting as prices rise - probably not the best idea.

    And you can start small to see how it all works.  During a big move down, prices move around a lot, in both directions.  The volatility can be really unnerving.

    Just to be clear, I'm just explaining mechanics here; I'm not telling you to go short. "Not financial advice."  Etc.

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 8:00pm

    #61
    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jun 04 2012

    Posts: 442

    15+

    For some reason this seems to be appropriate after what is I am sure a hard day for many of the thread participants

    https://thetyee.ca/Culture/2020/05/25/Find-Your-Pod/

    As a BC westcoaster, this nearly brought tears to my eyes. I am not of Indigenous descent, but as a marginalized person I find many of the writings that come from that cohort resonate with me deeply. There are several passages from this article that I thought applicable to this discussion:

    ...I don’t know why Tahlequah’s calf died. I can recite the pressures that bear down on the ocean, on orcas in general, on Tahlequah’s pod in particular. I carry that anxiety in my bones like ocean salt etching into my marrow. Dwindling food sources. Chemical and noise pollution. The lingering intergenerational impacts of all the live captures in decades past. The hazards of shipping oil. The low howl of climate change.

    ...And when I watched her pod take turns lifting that calf up so she could rest as she completed her sacred work, Tahlequah reminded me that we do not move through grief and uncertainty alone. We do it with our community bearing witness. And our community endures.

    ...But if we want to create the conditions for orcas and all ocean relatives to survive and to thrive, all of us — no matter whether our experience is direct or indirect — need to forge a connection.

    The way western society interacts with the world is often rooted in disconnection, in dissociation. We think we are architects of the order of the world, that our needs are the higher needs. This kind of thinking is so firmly embedded in my broader social context, and when it creeps into my thinking, I have to remind myself: think like an ancestor. If disconnection is the root cause of what has made our world, and the orcas’ world, so precarious — the antidote is connection. Building connection is building community.

    As an Accessibility Consultant, my key primary focus is trying to get people and organizations to understand that the strongest communities / teams are the most diverse teams. Each unique perspective and talent that is enabled to have a voice elevates the team to a higher plane of existence, one that makes other less diverse teams far less successful.

    While it is impossible for PP to be everything to everyone, it is important to make sure that diverse, disparate voices are heard, and empowered to be heard. It is also important that those, and indeed all voices, be respectful.

    I read A LOT of websites. It is rare to find the kind of civilized discourse that is found here. It is also rare to find a community like this that has the kind of long term connection among members that we have here.

    We can't let TPTB win by the divide and conquer they use successfully just about everywhere. We have to be better than that and we can be, as long as we do not let them erode or damage our connections. And we can only do that by staying strong and not letting our frustrations about SC2 or the economy or inequalities get the best of us - on either side.

    That is my two cents.... I hope you take a look at the article if only for the glorious Orca pics. Sometimes I am lucky enough to see a small pod on my daily walks. That is about as close to heaven on Earth as I get, and the best freebie ever! I am so, so grateful for that. And so grateful for this tribe for this is about the only place I have to exercise my intellect and rub shoulders with interesting, smart, thoughtful, people. I hope it always stays that way. You are my pod.

    Jan

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 9:16pm

    #62
    JWhite

    JWhite

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 12 2016

    Posts: 117

    13+

    The 52% and the 48%

    I suspect that the good people here at PP are not actually the people that Granny resents. Those people are likely in the top 1% of the population with the greatest wealth, and those who run the large companies that are asking for government bailouts and/or the ultra rich who are accepting money being handed to them without question. But those people are not here at PP. They have their own circles and private clubs, and their own publications and information. I doubt very much that there are many PP members who are not empathetic to the plight of fellow citizens who have lost jobs, are hungry, or are apprehensive about the future.

    But is the idea that people who do have some extra money, or a lot of extra money, should take it and give it away to strangers who have less? Should they take from the money set aside for their own future health care needs? Or from their wish to give their children or grand-children a head start in life? Or from their ability to care for aging parents, or their siblings? Or to stop contributions to charities close to their hearts?

    Let us remember that we were already expecting a depression, or great recession, before the pandemic hit. We were also expecting other things – the media has told us for some time that government and corporate pensions will be bankrupt sooner rather than later; that a significant percent of people live paycheck to paycheck; that government, corporate and private debt is completely out of control. Everyone has had access to these facts and more, whether they are in the 52% or the 48%. There have been many warning signs and there has been time for everyone at all levels to try to take steps to get their house in order, and to reconsider purchases and other life decisions. But most of us didn’t do it.

    It’s true that those of us who are now in dire straits are not likely paying attention to the markets. So a consideration of their circumstances would likely involve applying for welfare or other government aid that they may qualify for, borrowing from people they know, looking for work using their skills, thinking of other ways to make money, stealing, visiting food banks, and together with these options, economizing as much as possible. If Granny were to set up a separate Forum thread, others may have lots of great ideas and advice, for example how to save on food, or to live with others to share expenses etc.  A couple of people have already started Forum threads to express their concerns about finances, and received some support and suggestions…. In any case, I hardly think that calling people ‘Have Nots’ makes them feel better about themselves or their situation.

    Finally, I’m not understanding the comments in this thread and others, relating to criticisms of white men. What does race and sex have to do with one’s wealth? Or lack of it? I imagine there are many PP members who are in the lower half of the wealth continuum that are also white. But this is completely irrelevant. White men are just as precious as everyone else in the world.

    There is no reason for any member here to feel badly or guilty about their skin colour, sex, or the amount in their bank account or portfolio, or the lack of it.  We are all trying to do our best....

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 9:48pm

    #63
    lunableu22

    lunableu22

    Status: Member

    Joined: Oct 19 2011

    Posts: 51

    3+

    Orca Pod link

    Thank you Jan.  A story that touched my heart.  And a timely reminder.  Glad you're here with your heart-felt perspectives.

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 11:02pm

    #64

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    24+

    The Prospective of Another Webmaster

    I didn't want to comment on this subject but its late so WTH. Its been a running argument here for a while now and one of the reasons I stopped commenting and participating as much as I had been at the start of this crisis.

    Too many vocal people demanding things.

    (Though I want to commend all the people who don't, and who post information and long detailed comments. Thank you. I've learned so much from you.)

    As a few of you know, I run John Michael Greer's website based on his book "Green Wizardry". It is perhaps the exact type of website that Granny wants Peak Prosperity to be, focused on the people without money and without a lot of resources, and tries to teach the skills you need to live in a collapsing world.

    (BTW, if you have applied for a membership there and not logged in, please contact me via PM. Many of our notification emails end up in spam folders.)

    It also doesn't have a paid membership and free membership divide. I made the choice very early on to provide the content without regard to whether a person can pay or not. If you don't have a pot to piss in, please visit us and join.

    That said I want to say, that decision costs me around $2000 or more a year, to pay for things like hosting, website programs, paying for photos, IT people promising the Moon then ripping you off and all the other things that it takes to run even a moderately popular website. I can't imagine the amount of money it takes Chris and Adam to run this site.

    I don't make the kind of money that such expenses is a small thing. And especially not now that I'm unemployed, even less so. This pandemic is crippling my poorly funded plans for retirement, day by day. And yet, even with recent health problems I still pay the website expenses because I feel sharing that info is important.

    I also know from experience the time and effort it takes to write content, find or create photos, or graphs, diagrams or all the other things that go into making posts on complicated subjects. I can't imagine the effort to create videos. I've made posts that took me hours to create and probably took minutes to read.

    The depth of information that you need to teach all of the skills to live in a world that is economically and environmentally collapsing is huge. Its not just write a few articles and take a few pictures. Its also not something that gets done if people don't step up and contribute.

    Its awful easy to complain "Why don't you cover this subject more". I've had that complaint a lot of times. My response is always, take the time and effort to research those things that interest you, AND then write it up and share it. But I've had people flat out tell me, "I don't have the time to do that."

    Too often, people expect others to do the hard work for them. That your website should be what they want it to be, not you.

    I write and post the things that interest me knowing that in the vast Internet there are many websites that cover what I do not. I come to Peak Prosperity for what Chris and Adam cover and I don't expect them to change that just because a few people want them to. They are unique on the Internet for their focus on the financial side of the World. I can find dozens of websites on low cost living and gardening. I can find few websites that do what they do. If you aren't happy with what is offered here, either do the work yourself and add to it, or go someplace else for what you desire.

    Since I'm sure those of you who want change will now just jump right in to create content, I look forward to the many half hour videos or in depth posts that will surely come out of this discussion by people who want to expand Peak Prosperity's base of knowledge.

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  • Sun, May 24, 2020 - 11:46pm

    Linda T

    Linda T

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jun 09 2014

    Posts: 132

    7+

    Re:perspectives, and thank you for being a webmaster

    dtrammel,

    Great post. You made a lot of good points, it takes a long time to write articles, blogs, etc. and just a few mins to read it. It also takes a long time to learn new skills, whether it's gardening, composting, permaculture, and other homesteading skills, besides computer skills.

    Before the virus, everything was on super speed, I have seen people in line at a fast food honking at the car in front of them also waiting to order; cars waiting for the red light to turn, honking at cars in front of them unable to move. Patience and observational skills not so high on people's radar. It takes time to journey and move through life, relearning community, and collectively we need to relearn slowing down, paying attention, and realize everything is not delivered at super speed. For example, I can only imagine all of the hissy fits and temper tantrums, and hopefully eventually an awareness once some of the new gardeners learn how long it takes to grow food, nor does it always look "perfect" like it does in the stores.

    I also consider hands-on skills such as repairing my shoes, or clothing, as a valuable skill, which takes time. I could go get my sewing machine from storage, but I also want to support local small businesses because I appreciate the time it takes them to do what they, and the hard work they put in to learn their craft. And to gather their tools of trade too..

    I value Kunstler's and Greer's work for all of these years. I have many books from each of them, and over the years both of them have provided suggestions of what kinds of skills to learn in the coming years... All of which take patience, dedication, and hard work to learn. I was struggling to get this part, I hope we all start soon to appreciate the efforts and time involved for true artists to do what they do, and for people to learn and get in touch with their own abilities, to stop demanding everyone do it for them... Closer but not quite. Oh well.

    Linda

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  • Mon, May 25, 2020 - 7:50am

    #66
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 727

    6+

    Mr. Trammel Sir

    You sir are for me one of the most valuable members of this online tribe. Your efforts during this crisis have been nothing short of phenomenal. Your gathering and sharing of important actionable information is much appreciated.

    Thank you.

    I guess it is typical for people to complain more than they acknowledge and express gratitude. I mentioned my broker before but here is another story he told me that seems to fit. In Italy the grape pickers would go down the rows. There would always be some that would pick the easiest grapes. The other pickers would call them creamers. They would deride them with that appellation. You sir are no creamer.

    An old friend of mine (great singer song writer) wrote the following lines (1971)

    " There's an old old shack out across the street, gonna get it fixed up sure as I walk on my feet. You can learn a lot you know from a hammer's sound, takes a lot to get it built up , nothing at all to tear it down"

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  • Mon, May 25, 2020 - 1:44pm

    Redneck Engineer

    Redneck Engineer

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Mar 16 2020

    Posts: 81

    2+

    Redneck Engineer said:

    Davefairtex -

    Thanks again for yet another thoughtful, informative reply. This is the kind of discussion that makes forums valuable.

    re: SH: what structural issues do you have in mind? Would a leveraged short ETF like SQQQ (which is 3x leveraged short NASDAQ) have these issues?

    I'm not inclined to spend too much effort and time on trading. Years ago I looked at the rate of return for my investing, and found I was paying myself less than minimum wage. In other words, I'd have made more money with less risk by putting in overtime!

    An option would be to let money managers (like New Harbor or others) handle investments. Yet, I investigate their methods for handling a market drop, I find their focus is very conservative - to preserve wealth - rather than looking at the market drop and its volatility as an opportunity for profit.

    For instance, moving to cash at the start of the drop and back  to equities at the end would be a great way to preserve wealth and buy cheap: it literally is selling high, then buying low. But it misses out on the opportunity to profit from the fall, by shorting, using a small portion of one's assets, so there's more funds for purchases at the market bottom.

    Aside from the timing issues, is there a reason these money managers don't do this? Certain hedge funds do engage in this, but is there a reason money managers don't? Is there a legal / regulatory restriction? Or perhaps as a class the money manager client is more conservative than a hedge fund client?

    Thanks.

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  • Mon, May 25, 2020 - 1:57pm

    #68
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 754

    6+

    Interesting that no one told OliveOilGuy....

    OliveOilGuy** posted this comment (subject line, "PP as we enter the new paradigm")  that was apparently well-received by Adam and at least 8 PP members who "up-voted" this request: "I would like PP to do more articles and discussion on gardening, canning, livestock, personal protection, and general homesteading stuff."

    I too would like to see more current articles and discussion on the topics he's suggested. I would be willing to contribute to this effort.

    However, I find it interesting that no one told OliveOilGuy...

    * to stop complaining;

    * to find a more "constructive tone";

    * stop expecting others to do the "heavy lifting" on creating content;

    * don't expect anyone here at PP to come to his rescue;

    * to create his own Forum if he wanted this additional content;

    * moving personal stories about the positive impact Chris, Adam and PP has had on their lives;

    * that it is unreasonable and unfair to expect more as so much of the high quality, unique content on the site is provided "free";

    * don't be ungrateful, don't look a "gift horse" (Chris, Adam) in the mouth;

    * to complete the following "to do" list: 1) identify content he's seen elsewhere that would’ve been good here, 2) provide a list of 5 topics that could be covered here, and 3) list three personalities who could be interviewed here and on what subjects.";

    * "put-up or shut-up";

    * stop the demands that this site jump to his tune;

    * to go find the requested content on other sites rather than expect PP to provide it;

    * become the change you wish to see;

    * take what you need (from PP) and leave the rest;

    * just leave;

    * take the advice offered in this thread; if not, moderator review is the likely next option.

    One commenter posited that Granny obviously has "an ax to grind" given her "constant complaining". When someone doesn't feel that their concerns have been heard or addressed, they tend to repeat them, often more emphatically. Or they simply disconnect and eventually depart.

    Granny is unapologetically feisty and a bit rough-around-the-edges. Several PP members have voiced their appreciation of these qualities and Granny's comments and perspectives.  Unfortunately, Granny sometimes uses language that triggers a negative response (e.g., "pandering"). When that happens some PP members predictably pile-on, IMO especially if they perceive any hint of criticism of Chris, Adam or PP.

    One commenter accused Granny of "animus". This is an interesting choice of words, given that one definition of animus includes "...the masculine principle as present in women."  So Granny is admonished to change her "tone". Interesting.

    I noted the preponderance of middle-aged/older, white, middle-higher income males in the PP/Azurite survey results. I never received confirmation that the survey respondents were indeed primarily PP users/members. This seemed set the stage for assumptions that Granny's request for more balanced PP content addressing concerns of those not fitting that profile was somehow disparaging "middle-aged and old white guys" with established financial resources gained from their years of hard work.  Wow, talk about triggered!

    I think JimH commented on the pushback and censorship Chris received from TPTB on his coronavirus videos was a positive indicator; that getting heavy "flak" was an indication that he was "over the target". I don't know whether this is the case with the pushback and potential censorship of Granny regarding her concerns and request.

    Several months ago I suggested the PP team might secure individuals with more diverse (e.g., non-white, female) representation and perspectives as possible Summit speakers, guest content contributors or podcast interviewees. In the past and again more recently, I've also requested some presumably minor, high-impact site modifications (e.g., search functions) and/or assistance to increase access to existing content and/or facilitate contributions of new content (e.g., PP Wikis). I know that the PP team has been extremely busy over the past several months. But for whatever reasons, these changes haven't happened yet.

    Whether or not she's moderated off the site, Granny has already stated that she will be putting her efforts and energy elsewhere. This is our loss.

    I think this most recent and unfortunate episode has effectively discouraged others from participating in PP discussions and membership. Again, our loss.

    __________________________________________________________

    **NOTE: I've cited OliveOilGuy's comment for purposes of contrast. My comments should not in any way be construed as being critical of or disparaging OliveOilGuy or his request (which I support).

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  • Mon, May 25, 2020 - 2:27pm

    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 19 2016

    Posts: 306

    7+

    The difference between the posts is obvious

    Even I can see why one person has been disagreeable, and the other just mentioned new topics, I am sure you can see the difference too !

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  • Mon, May 25, 2020 - 2:43pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 754

    3+

    Even more interesting....

    Oh, so being "agreeable" is now a tenet of qualifying for/remaining in the PP tribe or "Remnant"??? I wasn't aware of that. Well that explains everything!

    I'm curious as to whether there's a different "agreeability" threshold or index for different members (e.g., by gender, age, membership status/length of membership)?

    Thank you for enlightening me! 😉

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  • Mon, May 25, 2020 - 3:51pm

    thc0655

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 27 2010

    Posts: 2063

    8+

    Terms of Use, from the site guidelines

    I don’t know if “agreeable” is the right word, but try this:

    We expect people to maintain the same level of civility in posting that a polite wedding guest would have at the reception table —before drinks are served.

    We expect and require courteous interactions everywhere comments can be posted to the site. In an online community, social courtesies are observed, just as at a physical gathering.  One doesn’t monopolize the conversation, pound the table about a single point until others’ eyes glaze over, insult their host or their fellow guests, or spew patently offensive slurs.  Tactfulness is a reasonable expectation within a voluntary community.

    Please ask yourself these questions before making a post:

    1. Does my post constructively illuminate an issue or answer a specific question?
    2. If constructively critical, is it emotionally neutral and considerate? Does it offer specific, actionable solutions?
    3. If asking a question, is it a bona fide question that will lead to an increased understanding of the “Thee Es” and related topics?

    Users should strive to post with integrity, accuracy and courtesy.  We expect that users will not abuse their anonymity by posting things that a polite individual would refrain from saying in person.

    https://www.peakprosperity.com/forum-topic/forum-guidelines-and-rules/

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  • Mon, May 25, 2020 - 4:04pm

    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 19 2016

    Posts: 306

    3+

    alll those things are unknown

    Online postings are anonymous, unless it is someone you have met personally at a Peak Prosperity event, you really have no idea of gender, age, gender identity, ethnicity, etc... you do not know if someone is as they say, I do not know any of these things about you nor you about me.  And, it doesn't matter, any of those things.  I don't want to know, for example, any of those things about "sparky" nor anyone else as it is not relevant.

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  • Mon, May 25, 2020 - 4:18pm

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1199

    11+

    For the record...

    I certainly don't want AKGranny to leave - I think highly of her.  I do think she got herself caught in a victim mentality of sorts.. and I hope that she snaps out of it.  She said she has a thick skin... so... have a thick skin.

    I think the race/gender angle will find very little play here, at least I hope so.

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  • Mon, May 25, 2020 - 7:13pm

    #74

    Oliveoilguy

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jun 29 2012

    Posts: 793

    5+

    Chinese Greenhouse

    Linda-T....The Chinese greenhouse you mentioned was actually conceived in New Mexico in 1979 and Texas in 1980. I was one of 5 consultants on a state funded project called “Texas Solar 80”. We designed and built “passive” greenhouses that have low to no energy input. Since then I have built 4 new iterations. The greenhouses have solid north walls and sloped glazed South walls to collect sunlight. Mine has clear story windows to allow heat to form a thermal chimney effect because overheating is a problem here. I put a glass garage door on my North wall so that I could open it up during the summer and join the greenhouse environment with a shaded area behind. There are CMU walls on the north and part of the west and there is outsulation (4” of foam on the exterior of the block which is then covered with synthetic stucco).This allows the block to be interior mass and help moderate the temperature swings. Now these are spotted all over the Chinese country side. I can’t imagine that China would steal our idea and not give us credit.

    Glad to help with design ideas if anyone is trying to get a greenhouse going.

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  • Mon, May 25, 2020 - 7:19pm

    #75
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 754

    7+

    Obviously I fail to understand.

    Obviously I fail to understand why there's been such a visceral, negative reaction to Granny's posts in general and her most recent request more specifically. Yes, she might chose her words more carefully as she sometimes uses "trigger" words (e.g., "pandering") or phrases ("I know what you're thinking.") which invite pushback and, unfortunately detracts from her core message.

    What I don't understand is why others can't "take the best and leave the rest" (as she's been advised to do) and respond constructively to Granny's core message, rather than focusing on assumptions about her "playing the victim", resentments, being jealous of others' wealth, being poor, etc. Honestly, she seems to be held to a different standard than other PP members, with little tolerance for her alternative, dissenting opinion on some key issues.

    Granny has endured many very pointed remarks and criticisms from some very articulate PP members--IMO more and over a longer period of time than any other current/former PP member that I'm aware of. IMO, she's persevered throughout all and taken some pretty direct, hard hits. I would be defensive too under such circumstances and would not have persevered as well or for so long. She's already proved that she has "thick skin". I don't think she needs to prove this any further. Apparently she has decided her time and energy are better spent elsewhere.

    For the record, I'm not promoting some "race/gender angle" or play in my post contrasting the disparate responses Granny received for her request vs those received for OOG's request.

    And yes, it is true that one can never really be certain as to the demographics and other particulars postured by those within an on-line community. But such information is often shared by members and generally accepted at face value. For example, I believe Mountainhousepermi is female and living in Northern California per information she's shared on this site; and that SandPuppy is male and is an emergency room physician. Others may/may not incorporate their personal biases based on that information and perceptions.

    The PP/Azurite survey results suggested a predominant profile that, if representative of the PP user/membership, suggests a majority of the PP tribe is (**sigh**, to repeat this one more time) American, white, middle aged/older, and of moderate-upper income. If true, then it is logical that the PP content and comments generally reflect this majority demographic. It might be beneficial to hear from other voices, other perspectives that just may resonate better with others that don't fit that profile.

    Granny's been encouraged to start a PP Forum on topics of interest. As noted previously, these posts receive low traffic, get displaced and buried in the Forum's chronological order, and are not organized or searchable via the PP current functions. Information could be shared, updated and expanded upon in the PP Wikis, but there is no apparent mechanism or process to do so. She could write-up content and send to Adam who may/may not post it. Or she can go elsewhere to find the content she is seeking, or start her own blog/newsletter.

    DaveF said, "How can you expect rich white men to understand the situation you see so clearly? Doesn't that just sound crazy on its face? Yes, it does. Just as crazy as a white person trying to understand what a black person sees, etc. etc."

    I believe Granny's been trying to raise awareness of and facilitate discussions concerning a minority perspective for quite some time on the PP site. IMO it has been discouraged, sometimes ridiculed, and generally poorly received by a vocal contingent of PP members. How many others with alternative, dissenting views or that differ from the PP majority profile will be discouraged from participating in and/or joining PP?

    The PP team can and will likely drive many more visitors to the site and increase their membership among their target audience. But many will come and go, finding that it is not a good "fit". This approach may pay the PP bills, but may not build a "world worth inheriting" where diversity and alternative PoV are valued.

    Again, our loss.

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  • Mon, May 25, 2020 - 8:02pm

    #76

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1199

    2+

    Just to be even more clear...

    I wish now I had not commented at all.. but I did so in support of AK Granny.  Now I see the need to be even more clear about what I meant when I invoked the idea of getting caught up in a victim mentality.  My comment had nothing to do with income demographics or any other aspect of her historical posts here.. it was very specific to her response to Adam suggesting that she was hurt by what she perceived as a public shaming.  Sticks and stones.. you know?

    The best thing anyone can do for themselves is to find a way to rationalize and internalize not giving a shit what anyone else thinks of them.  It's not easy, I know, but at the end of the day it's a superpower of sorts.

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  • Mon, May 25, 2020 - 8:24pm

    thatchmo

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Dec 13 2008

    Posts: 232

    3+

    thatchmo said:

    One commenter accused Granny of "animus". This is an interesting choice of words, given that one definition of animus includes "...the masculine principle as present in women."  So Granny is admonished to change her "tone". Interesting.

    Interesting perhaps, but not true to my comments.  I actually looked up "amimosity" in the three dictionaries I have here on my desk, as I hadn't actually used the word in ages, and didn't want it to inaccurately portray my thoughts.  I failed to consult the Dictionary of Jungian psychology.....Jeez, my bad.....As I see Granny's still here reading and giving thumbs up, I will say that I'm truly looking forward to her fact-based and actual insights into "the other half", if there really is one, given that we're all in this sh!tshow together, just playing different roles, with different entrances and exits.  Appreciate your posts as well, Sparky1.  Aloha, Steve.

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  • Mon, May 25, 2020 - 8:55pm

    #78

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2134

    12+

    feature request: useful forums getting buried

    Sparky-

    From where I sit, Granny hasn't been trying to provide a viewpoint and been dissed for it, she has been trying to prod Adam and Chris into generating content for that viewpoint.  That's not the same thing at all.

    Do you feel I have been unsupportive of Granny generating content?  I thought I was enthusiastically supportive.  Of her generating content, that is.  How many times have I said I would read it if she started doing it?

    Definitely, I have NOT been supportive of her prodding and complaining to Chris and Adam to alter their site content to satisfy her.  "There is just not enough free content I like."

    I do think you are 100% correct about forums getting buried due to the current site architecture.  Somehow, they should be either pinnable on a per-user basis (so I can mark forums I want to track - climate change, 9/11, Granny, vaccines, maybe even gold/silver) and/or sorted by number of reader comments, as well as seeing the new forums that appear every day.  Useful forums just get lost.  This is bad, and it should be fixed.

    If the site structure was fixed (and...someone has to pay for the site engineers to write all that code...just saying...engineers aren't cheap.  How much are they hourly, Adam?  $50?  $75?) then Granny could write her column and everyone who liked it could pin it to the top of their forum list.

    And - there would be no need to constantly prod Adam and Chris to generate said (free) content, because Granny would be doing it herself.

    So, really, this whole conversation boils down to a feature request for Adam.  Which I totally support.  The feature request, I mean.

    So if site gets fixed, are we all good?

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  • Mon, May 25, 2020 - 10:29pm

    Linda T

    Linda T

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jun 09 2014

    Posts: 132

    4+

    Re: Chinese greenhouses, searches in PP, and Granny

    Oliveoilguy,

    My re-post for Sparky1 did include a link for Walipini greenhouses, which was one of many links that Duckduckgo came up with during my searches for info on fruit trenching and fruit walls. For over 10 years I have been curious and wondering what did we do before greenhouses? They are a relatively new "technology", we probably just moved around being hunter gatherers and never knew about foods from other climates until global trade got started a few thousand years ago. Out of curiousity, I just found this:

    "HISTORY OF TRADE"

    http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHistories.asp?historyid=ab72

    Recently www.resilience.org had posted the article about fruit trenching and fruit walls which had been originally posted by Low-Tech Magazine, which I was thrilled to read, and got me looking for more info as I previously mentioned. I found it interesting that during my search from outside of PP, I was provided a link for Walipini greenhouses on this site, but I wouldn't have been able to find it during an internal search within PP. So, I concur some kind of search function would be wonderful, because as info and comments are posted chronologically, they get lost quickly. Unless I'm sitting here 24X7 which I won't be able to do once I get recalled back to full-time work, I could very easily miss something very important to me. Even though I'm currently not working, I'm still busy spending time at my garden, grocery shopping, cooking, etc. and I still miss stuff...

    The current dialogue regarding Granny and dicey, uncomfortable topics; having more accessible info about homesteading, gardening, permaculture, the economic and emotional devastation, and other important issues of the day, on top of important issues that were pressing before the virus came onto the scene, pollinator losses & colony collapse disorder being one...  All important, and it reminds me of an important conversation that occurred online approx nine years ago. I don't remember whoo was the person that sparked it off, but I remember Rob Hopkins, John Michael Greer, and I think Carolyn Baker and Sharon Astyk chimed in on it too. (I remembered the timeframe because I was either moving to Portland or had recently arrived, and I thought it was such an invaluable topic, I had printed most of it.) Basically, in the rush to achieve "consensus" in communities and ecovillages, an important aspect was being railroaded and discouraged. That of "dissensus", JMG made the point that not the kind of dissensus of something acting out and trying to defeat something out of spite, but that a person that isn't in agreement and is the voice of dissensus might be seeing a current problem/issue or one that could very well occur, and is trying to alert the fellow community or group members. Kind of like the "don't kill the messenger" dynamic.

    Linda

     

     

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  • Tue, May 26, 2020 - 4:38am

    #80
    Chris Martenson

    Chris Martenson

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Jun 07 2007

    Posts: 5297

    23+

    Community Values, Peak Prosperity, and the Importance of Gratitude

    As pre-context for my response to the topic here stirred up (once again) by Granny's indelicate wording and decidedly victim-oriented diatribe, I will readily admit that this site cannot be all things to all people.  Nor does it aspire to be.

    The good news is that I am immune to the demand that I be all things to all people.  That was never my goal, nor my desire in life.  I speak to those who can hear and are ready to hear.  Those people are my tribe.

    Further, our tribe consists of people who readily do whatever work needs to be done, when it needs to be done.

    They don't loudly proclaim that the floor needs sweeping, they don't angrily demand that the seminar leaders sweep the floor beneath their lifted feet, they quietly grab a broom and start sweeping the whole room.  They do this because they noticed the floor was not to their standard of cleanliness.  They do it because it needs doing, not with the hope that someone will notice and lavish praise upon them.

    This is a character trait in some people and, in my experience of life, these are quite often the most conventionally successful people.  They build businesses, relationships and communities.

    Lately I have found Granny's signal-to-noise ratio to have slipped well below the level that adds to this community.  At best her outbursts provide a platform for having a teachable community moment, but otherwise I find them divisive, and distracting.

    On balance I find this thread is poorer for this conversation, even though, as with every grenade-tossing event, there are some harvestable fragments.

    westcoastjan said:

    I read A LOT of websites. It is rare to find the kind of civilized discourse that is found here. It is also rare to find a community like this that has the kind of long term connection among members that we have here.

    We can't let TPTB win by the divide and conquer they use successfully just about everywhere.

    I agree Jan, this is a rare online community.  It's a treasure and worth preserving.  But I don't believe it's TPTB at work here creating division.  In this particular instance this is  just Granny's style.  It's who she is, it's who she's been, and therefore it's who she is going to be in the future.

    I have detected exactly zero moments of self-reflection on Granny's part where she came back after an outburst having thought things through and owned any part of it.  It's always someone or something on the outside that she finds abrasive.  Every push-back to her style is met with a wall of JADE-ing (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain) and/or wildly inappropriate deflection ("Oh, this is just men beating up on women again!")

    I can state this with certainty; if Granny is the same in person as she is online she wouldn't last long as a member of my physical community.  We're all doers here, all hard workers, and we accomplish incredible amounts each day without complaint.  We own our failures and we don't demand more free labor from others to meet our personal needs.

    As Gottman's work pointed out, a good relationship has a minimum of 5 positive encounters for every negative encounter or 'corrective' bit of feedback.  I am acutely aware of Granny's displeasure at my choice of free content.  I am very aware that she skipped right over the part where I explained I came from very humble beginnings, that I lived on $5/week at one point in my life, and that I worked very  hard to get where I am.   All of which I understand as her prior wounds and so I don't take that personally.

    Still I am in a position of leadership here and I care deeply that the conversations are on track, welcoming, and open-minded.  So when I read Granny's latest set of angry posts I cringed, knowing that they would be more repellent than attractive to a newcomer.  Creating a safe container for online conversations is no easy feat, and attacking, abrasive tones are the opposite of safe.

    I'm all for diversity and love being challenged, but I'm also keenly alert to the idea that some people are additive to a group's level of energy and functioning and some are subtractive.  Some are nourishing, others depleting.

    To be honest, once again I came away from Granny's latest outbursts feeling quite deflated and annoyed; not so much properly challenged as inappropriately flogged.

    Certainly no gratitude was on display, no positives to be found at all in any recent comments.  Just a solid wall of complaining.  I see Sparky defending that as "just Granny's style" but style matters in life.  As surely as Granny has every right to be the way she is, I have a right to decide it's not my cup of tea.

    This part bears repeating; the offer has been made, quite nicely, and very civilly many times to Granny; if you find content missing from this site, then please create it. 

    Without exception, she has declined every offer preferring instead to pick up the cat o' nine tails and flail away from time to time.  I presume the desired effect is to shame/goad Adam and I into creating the sort of content that she wishes to see here.

    Besides the fact that such an approach is rarely effective in life, were Adam and I to try and satisfy every complainant,  it would not reveal a dedication to diversity, it would be a decision to adapt ourselves to someone else's wounding.  That never works out over the long-term in personal relationships and it's an especially poor practice for any community that seeks to grow and thrive.   Eventually you succumb to the tyranny of tiny wounds, nobody able to say or do anything for fear of setting off one of the many roving land mines.

    DTrammel said:

    I also know from experience the time and effort it takes to write content, find or create photos, or graphs, diagrams or all the other things that go into making posts on complicated subjects. I can't imagine the effort to create videos. I've made posts that took me hours to create and probably took minutes to read.

    The depth of information that you need to teach all of the skills to live in a world that is economically and environmentally collapsing is huge. Its not just write a few articles and take a few pictures. Its also not something that gets done if people don't step up and contribute.

    Its awful easy to complain "Why don't you cover this subject more". I've had that complaint a lot of times. My response is always, take the time and effort to research those things that interest you, AND then write it up and share it. But I've had people flat out tell me, "I don't have the time to do that."

    Too often, people expect others to do the hard work for them.

    I confess, after being tolerant of "granny's style" for a while, this last one pushed me past an inner line and I am now resenting Granny's failure to appreciate the obvious hard work Adam and I put in here.

    I work right at the edge of what's humanly possible and give away nearly all of that for free.

    It's still not enough for her type.  It's never enough, which now strikes me as both grating and ungracious.

    Adam Taggart said:

    In the just past week, Chris and I have recorded/published interviews with Sergey Young (technology's promise & risks), Neil Howe (the 4th turning), Grant Williams/Mike Maloney & Charles Hugh Smith (the Fed), five daily coronavirus update videos, and the video above with New Harbor (markets).

    As a reminder, that content Adam referred to was offered to the world free, free, free, freefreefreefreefree and free.  Without properly adding it up that's around 7 hours of video content produced.

    And that was just in one week.  Some people struggle to put out 5 minutes of content a week.

    To put a humorous spin on it all, whenever people come around to complain that Adam and I aren't doing enough for them, it reminds me of this scene:

    So here's the deal, my bottom line, I get to choose my relationships in life, both in my physical and my online community.  There's no requirement that I put up with depleting sorts especially at the expense of spending quality time with nourishing relationships.

    This community is best served by those, like DTrammel, who quietly pick up the broom and sweep because that's what needs doing.

    Everybody should feel free to make any sorts of suggestions about new content.  But refusing to do any actual work yourself while telling Adam and I we are not doing enough for you won't get you much besides an invitation to let yourself out.

    This is a precious community and it deserves our very best selves to show up and contribute.  I am grateful for the majority of members who show up, bring their best, and weave the ropes that hold us together.

    Thanks for listening.  And remember, it's possible the Romans weren't all bad.

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  • Tue, May 26, 2020 - 6:54am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 727

    8+

    My deepest and sincerest of apologies.

    Chris and Adam I am deeply sorry for my participation in this thread. Based on the data including this post there were only 4 posts out of 81 directly related to the original post.

    This thread was hijacked by one person for no good reason I can see. It is normal for threads to digress and sometimes go off the reservation but this was an utter waste of bandwidth. It has to be terribly disappointing for those "rich white guys " who come here for your reporting on the economy and markets to see this thread. It certainly isn't inviting.

    This site has changed little in terms of content over the last 13 years. You 2 are definitely focused on the economy in all its manifestations. While I have never owned a stock as I have mentioned your insight into economic issues has been invaluable to me personally. I have been able to share not only this site but specific info you have provided with family and friends. In 2009 a friend and I offered the Crash Course to our community. We did it in 2 separate viewings at our coop conference center. We had 25 people show up each time and at the end we simply said "well now what?"

    We ended up with a group of over 40 who met every 2 weeks for 2 years to discuss sustainability. Ideas were shared , resources were shared and bonds were formed. We found out about the Transition Town movement here. (would not have otherwise perhaps) . We spoke with the city horticulturalist about edible landscapes, we talked to the mayor about an energy descent plan, we initiated talks with organizations in the city and the mayor about local currency, We had Paul Glover come and speak about Ithaca hours, a talk attended by about 100 people including the mayor. There is more but you get the point.

    Me and my community have benefited greatly from the work you have done, and offered for free. I have never been a subscriber but have seen a few premium content articles a friend shared with me. Over the years I drifted in and out of the site as I focused on crypto and there wasn't much here on that that I found particularly useful. Then it was on the radar and i joined so I could join the discussion.

    I am here now and may drift again as my and the world situation changes.

    I also read a lot of other websites and have yet to find one as broad and as deep as this one. You have created a masterpiece. It is not perfect but it is a huge job and it will evolve and get better over time. Everyone can find something here that is useful. They may not find everything useful, I certainly don't) but that is part of being a hunter gatherer.

    Again my apologies for distracting from your message and for the length of this post. I am grateful for everything you do and am in awe of your coverage of the pandemic. You have unique talents, and far, did I say far more patience than I do.

    All the best and keep on keepin on

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  • Tue, May 26, 2020 - 7:02am

    JWhite

    JWhite

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 12 2016

    Posts: 117

    10+

    Comment on 'For the Record'

    JimH it was sweet of you to state you want Granny to stay. But it is entirely Granny’s choice whether she decides to bring her manners to the table or not. It seems Adam and Chris have contacted her about the nature of some of her posts, but to no avail.

    But the issue here is not just about Granny’s wish to see a broader range of topics. It is also about an accumulation of negative and pointed comments she has made over time, against individuals and demographic groups, and includes the criticism she posted in this thread.

    It is important to separate the issues. As I alluded to in my previous comment, I don’t believe it is the PP members who are responsible for the great financial divide in society, therefore these members should not be criticized. And making negative comments about the ‘well to do’ and ‘white men’, whether they are PP members or not, serves no useful purpose here. Granny is not the only one who has done this.

    Comments which attack groups within the PP community based on their demographic or financial status, or whether they are fortunate enough to avoid others during the pandemic, create a poisonous atmosphere and serve to divide this group. These comments affect not only the group or individual being criticized, they also affect me.

    A few months ago I heard a radio talk show host come on the air, very angry about an incident that had happened the day before. She told her listeners that her 5 year old son had come home from Kindergarten in a very bad mood. Sensing that he was upset, she asked him what was wrong. He replied that his teacher had told him that he was worthless and was going to grow up to be a loser. She said he was nothing, because he was white and he was a boy. Five years old!!

    It is important for everyone in the PP community to be treated with dignity and respect, regardless of their demographic and their financial position, and whether the site content speaks to them in every instance.

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  • Tue, May 26, 2020 - 9:11am

    Sonerous

    Sonerous

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jun 10 2019

    Posts: 22

    3+

    Thank you Sparky1

    DaveF said, "How can you expect rich white men to understand the situation you see so clearly? Doesn't that just sound crazy on its face? Yes, it does. Just as crazy as a white person trying to understand what a black person sees, etc. etc."

    Empathy is the way that people understand others situations. Some people develop it during childhood or adolescence, others need to make more of an effort to see or experience what life is like for people different to themselves.

    I believe Granny's been trying to raise awareness of and facilitate discussions concerning a minority perspective for quite some time on the PP site. IMO it has been discouraged, sometimes ridiculed, and generally poorly received by a vocal contingent of PP members. How many others with alternative, dissenting views or that differ from the PP majority profile will be discouraged from participating in and/or joining PP?

    I've been seeing this lately too, something of an "us and them" attitude... if you make suggestions (e.g. for different or broader content) then you must be criticising. And you aren't one of "us" any longer. I don't think it's always been this way. Under pressure, most of us take firmer positions, or find it more difficult to see another's PoV. It's at those times that we need to be aware of our own motivations and actions. Mindfulness and other "meta" techniques can really help.

    The PP team can and will likely drive many more visitors to the site and increase their membership among their target audience. But many will come and go, finding that it is not a good "fit". This approach may pay the PP bills, but may not build a "world worth inheriting" where diversity and alternative PoV are valued.

    I believe it would be a missed opportunity if a diverse range of people and opinions were discouraged from posting and providing content here. There's good research that a well-informed and diverse group makes much better decisions than any one individual, even an expert. Diverse groups bring new ideas to the table that would otherwise not have been thought of. So many advantages to everyone.

    But it's not necessarily comfortable. It takes good-will, plus a willingness to listen and learn, by all participants. It takes a belief that we have something in common, and are striving for something similar. That we can and want to help each other. There's some discussion of this in Prosper, on the importance of communities and social assets. But lately that value has been missing in some of the discussions here.

    The tone and attitude of administrators, moderators and (to a lesser extent) frequent posters, will determine the direction the site takes: towards diversity, tolerance and encouragement of different opinions and "social cohesion". Or towards homogeneity and a very different type of social cohesion. Watch this space.

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  • Tue, May 26, 2020 - 9:25am

    Sonerous

    Sonerous

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jun 10 2019

    Posts: 22

    1+

    Dissensus

    I remember Rob Hopkins, John Michael Greer, and I think Carolyn Baker and Sharon Astyk chimed in on it too. (... I thought it was such an invaluable topic, I had printed most of it.) Basically, in the rush to achieve "consensus" in communities and ecovillages, an important aspect was being railroaded and discouraged. That of "dissensus"...

    That sounds fascinating Linda. I'd love to hear or read about that discussion.

    I live in a community where all decisions are made by consensus. It's awesome and also really challenging. We are all continuously learning what it really means, how to be inclusive, how to ensure that all voices are heard (and when to make quick decisions with a smaller group, such as recently when bushfires came very close to us a few times).

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  • Tue, May 26, 2020 - 12:40pm

    Linda T

    Linda T

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jun 09 2014

    Posts: 132

    1+

    Re: dissensus, and a clarification

    Sonerous,

    First, I wanted to clarify something, you included this below:

    DaveF said, "How can you expect rich white men to understand the situation you see so clearly? Doesn't that just sound crazy on its face? Yes, it does. Just as crazy as a white person trying to understand what a black person sees, etc. etc."

    and attributed it to DaveF. He did do the first sentence, but I wrote the “Yes, it does. Just as crazy as a white person trying to understand what a black person sees, etc. etc." from my previous reply (#42) “Re: Granny, Dave, and Adam” and I’ve included the section from whence it came:

    “Dave,

    “Now you have the chance to do so too.  You can make a difference.  Like all things worthwhile, it will require a fair amount of effort.  Alternatively, you might just be content to only complain, trying to prod someone else into doing the heavy lifting.  This is put up or shut up time, Granny.  You have a unique perspective.  How can you expect rich white men to understand the situation you see so clearly?  Doesn't that just sound crazy on its face?”

    Yes, it does. Just as crazy as a white person trying to understand what a black person sees, etc. etc.”

    I did try to include the info on dissensus, but my 2 previous attempts didn't post, so I'm going to try breaking it up...

    Linda

    Added: Tried again with no luck, I'll try again later, I need to head to my garden...

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  • Tue, May 26, 2020 - 1:09pm

    #86
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 754

    Wow, MontanaNative your post is truly offensive!

    MontanaNative, I generally appreciate your posts but I am stunned by your offensive, misogynistic post. Your timing and placement could not be worse given the above discussions concerning balanced representation on the site. Several folks here interpreted the request for balance as a slam against "wealthy white middle-aged/older males". IMO, that was incorrect and was never the intention. Your post speaks to the imbalance and lack of respect and tolerance those not representing the majority on this site.

    IMO, the comment accompanying the photo is misogynist and suggests violence against women. This will not promote healing or productive discussion on the site. I'm sure it runs contrary to PP posting guidelines and rules as well.

    Truly discouraging. 🙁

     

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  • Tue, May 26, 2020 - 1:11pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 754

    1+

    Thank you Adam

    I see that Adam has removed the photo. Thank you Adam for your swift and appropriate response.

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  • Tue, May 26, 2020 - 1:27pm

    Montana Native

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 17 2009

    Posts: 121

    Deleted.....

    Win some and lose some.....it's all perspective in the end. Cheers.

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  • Tue, May 26, 2020 - 3:12pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 754

    1+

    Site enhancements

    Hi Dave,

    I don't agree with your (and others') assessment of Granny's intent or methods concerning her requests ("demands" or "complaints") for alternative/additional PP content. Then again, I haven't been privy to the nearly decade-long history (apparently contentious) that underlies the exasperation you and others appear to have with Granny and her posts.

    Yes, you and others were somewhat encouraging--challenging--Granny to create and contribute content concerning her interests, and you expressed willingness to read it. IMO, this encouragement was severely tempered by and embedded in extensive criticisms from many within the "tribe".

    Moving on....

    I can't speak for Granny re: your suggested PP site enhancements to the Forums and whether these proposed changes would facilitate content creation from her. My understanding is that she has decided to put her time and energy elsewhere.

    I appreciate and agree with your suggestions for enhancing the Forums' functionality. I have no idea what it would take in terms of level of effort and costs. If modified as you suggest, then I would be willing to create and post regular content.  Given the Forums' current limitations, I don't think it would be especially productive or useful for me post under the Forums until your suggested enhancements were made.

    The PP site search function is also in desperate need of enhancement. There is more than a decade of great content languishing, buried on the site with no effective means of finding or organizing it. Regarding the PP Wikis, there may already be a mechanism or process in place to refresh and/or add to content. I just don't know if/how this can be accomplished, so I would appreciate any information or assistance anyone can provide in this regard.

    I hope to receive a return phone call from Adam soon and will discuss these proposed site enhancements as well as other matters with him.  If you or others could facilitate or support these site enhancement requests, that might move them up a bit on Adam's already massive "to-do" list.

    Thanks Dave. 🙂

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  • Tue, May 26, 2020 - 4:33pm

    vshelford

    vshelford

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 13 2014

    Posts: 150

    2+

    Re Site enhancements

    It's a small suggestion, but given the huge work involved in building and maintaining a site, I'm wondering if something fairly simple like the addition of a site directory would help with finding older forums?  My only experience with site maintenance is with my humble old basic html sites for our small community, but if it doesn't have to look pretty, an alphabetized directory might be a possible interim step?  Depends very much on the platform and template this one is built on, how quick this would be.

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  • Tue, May 26, 2020 - 4:55pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 754

    2+

    Clarification and perspective on Chris' comments

    Chris,

    I'd like to provide clarification re: your comment in which you said, "Certainly no gratitude [from Granny] was on display, no positives to be found at all in any recent comments. Just a solid wall of complaining. I see Sparky defending that as "just Granny's style" but style matters in life. " (Source)

    Granny did express gratitude, "I too agree the videos are beneficial, giving away the book is generous and have gotten great value from the site over almost 10 years." (Source)

    Admittedly, it is not Granny's "style" to be effusive in her expressions of gratitude, so I wouldn't expect her to express her gratitude in terms of the near reverence that others have expressed for you Chris, Adam and the PP team. But she has, in fact, expressed gratitude in this thread and elsewhere.

    Regarding Granny's "style", I said, "Granny is unapologetically feisty and a bit rough-around-the-edges. Several PP members have voiced their appreciation of these qualities and Granny's comments and perspectives. Unfortunately, Granny sometimes uses language that triggers a negative response (e.g., "pandering"). When that happens some PP members predictably pile-on, IMO especially if they perceive any hint of criticism of Chris, Adam or PP." (Source)

    Additionally I said, "Yes, she might chose her words more carefully as she sometimes uses "trigger" words (e.g., "pandering") or phrases ("I know what you're thinking.") which invite pushback and, unfortunately detracts from her core message." (Source)

    I wasn't defending or providing excuses for Granny's "style". I was stating my observations regarding her use of language and its impact. I agree:  style matters.

    After nearly a decade of apparently contentious communications with Granny, there seems to be an inability to separate the message from the messenger.  This contentiousness predates my time with PP, so I'm not privy to all that has transpired. Sadly, as in a dead marriage, I don't think it can be salvaged. So Granny's decision to put her time and energy to use elsewhere is probably best for all concerned.

    My impression is that Granny's insistence and urgency ("complaints" and "demands") came from a place of caring.  Consider that she perhaps embodied the voice of "dissensus". LindaT said, "[John Michael Greer paraphrase] ...a person that isn't in agreement and is the voice of dissensus might be seeing a current problem/issue or one that could very well occur, and is trying to alert the fellow community or group members. Kind of like the "don't kill the messenger" dynamic." (Source)

    Chris, you said, "On balance I find this thread is poorer for this conversation, even though, as with every grenade-tossing event, there are some harvestable fragments."

    I have a different perspective. I found this thread enormously rich with information and insights into the people and culture that comprise the PP community. I and at least some others have learned a great deal from this somewhat difficult but ultimately beneficial conversation.

    Thanks for the opportunity to comment.

    Onward!  🙂

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  • Tue, May 26, 2020 - 5:20pm

    #92
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 754

    4+

    Adam, has Granny's farewell post been deleted??

    Hi Adam,

    I can see Granny's post (comment 666558) in the recent "Comments" sidebar, entitled "Sparky1 et al my goodby post". The timestamp shows her comment was posted 3 hours ago. For some reason, I cannot find/open it. Has it been deleted? If so, why?? I would like it restored. Can you assist?  Thanks!

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  • Tue, May 26, 2020 - 6:23pm

    #93
    FooBarr

    FooBarr

    Status: Member

    Joined: Oct 21 2010

    Posts: 61

    11+

    Whoo, what the..!!??? I was OTL most of the weekend, & kind of glad I missed out on this food fight at the PP forums......

    First up, as a paying subscriber to PP, I do appreciate the NH updates.  When I get to thinking I'm missing out on the easy-money Fed-fueled market melt-up, but then listening to Mike and John gives me a sense of relief that a chunk of my notional electronic wealth might have a chance of being there when I need it some day.  Thank you Adam, Mike, & John for the warm fuzzies (or maybe it's just my elderberry/rum/honey nightcap?)

    As for all the other meaningless post and eye-poking going on here on this discussion thread, I think a bunch of people are really just needing a big hug and then should go outside and work on their garden.  Pulling some weeds sure would be a better investment of their emotional and physical energy than keying in all this useless blather.

    Honestly, if you don't think a article by Adam or Chris doesn't apply to you then don't click on it, and don't waste your time whining about how it doesn't apply to you.   And then the others coming by and whining about the whiner whining.  OMG!!!!  Really??  Just tune it out, it's not that hard.  (OMG, did I really just whine about the 2nd whiner whining about the 1st whiner???  I'm such a loser.)

    Over the past few months the PP membership has grown quite a bit and I've come to learn that as this 4th-turning shit storm approaches, there is certain names and avatars I scroll to and read their every word, and then there a some names and avatars that I just scroll on by.  Really, your index finger with a downward motion on the wheel thingy is all it takes.  Try it, works for me.

    BTW, 2 for 1 free hugs in fly-over country, come and get em..... and wet kisses are a  one for dollar or three for $5.

     

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  • Tue, May 26, 2020 - 6:26pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 754

    "AKGrannyWGrit" is not coming up in the PM membership

    Hi again Adam,

    I tried to send Granny a PM but her name is not registering in the PP membership directory.  Is she under Moderator review and/or has her membership posting privileges/account been removed? Thanks in advance for any information/assistance you can provide.

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  • Tue, May 26, 2020 - 11:14pm

    Sonerous

    Sonerous

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jun 10 2019

    Posts: 22

    1+

    Sonerous said:

    It looks like she's blocked from posting, but you can still access PM by clicking the link at the top of one of her posts.

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  • Tue, May 26, 2020 - 11:39pm

    planfortomorrow

    planfortomorrow

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 28 2017

    Posts: 144

    2+

    planfortomorrow said:

    Granny, I think you have many concerns with the world out there and from what I have read your comments are good ones (to you) but you can't fix your issues and are frustrated. Then again, Chris and Adam have put out some very important work of late. The Virus video's are award winning stuff!!! In my opinion Chris and Adam have been working their asses off so I/we must give them their do. They are two human's doing what's best for them and us. I do not ever question their character. However, they must put the meat on the table and follow their dreams too. Over all, this is a well balanced sight. Lets say they spend a lot more time on the things you want, many want. I suspect Granny you already have a strong opinion on what your needs are and are doing them. So to stick a video or an article here and there would maybe not benefit everyone anyways. Often action requires cash to be spent so, maybe, while these video's or letters would satisfy how to get through the next Depression, if you don't have the land, tools, seeds, time or money, they wouldn't be anymore useful than the video's and letters now being put up. Frankly, I like hearing many voices so I don't get stuck in my own Biases or get caught up in others Biases. I like my mind to float about and think for myself with no set in concrete beliefs. My God, nothing has happened that the so called experts predicted, not a thing (generally speaking). My overall point is the message: Chris and Adam have been consistent, and if what they produce can be monetized then I suspect it only makes up for the marginalized years when things were not so rosy. I never give a shit what people have or don't. All I know is having more is a pain in the ass sometimes because you have to work it somehow and it usually means you have to spent some of it and in my life that usually means I've created a lot more work for myself than I have the time to do (I make the time though). What motivates me isn't for me it's for My Lady's and my family. Everything we do is messaging to them, leaving them this stuff so they have something to manage that may feed all of them when were gone. That is my fear, that my family won't have a roof over their heads, heat, food and clothing. That they won't have the tools. All of this is in place and paid for, so we now just finish the Cabin. My Lady and I are so happy for all of this. We did this, we would have done this without this site but Man, got to give credit to Chris first as I gravitated to his early works (2008) and learned so much, I found Charles H. Smith who just opened every door for me with his superb writing and common sense approach. and now Adam, who is sincere and wrote you a respectful reply and that is Adam. Be honest Granny, you tried to get these double barrel shot gun responses! I have no issues with you, you are in every community, your beliefs are those of many who are just trying to figure it out. You get apposed because you don't see that others are working harder than you and are doing it with actions and not the unpleasant ways of someone who isn't happy at all with anything, even when the content is free. That's not a pleasant thing to hear when you aspire to change the world or to live the life worth living. I do love the fact that we have had a lot more time to prepare than the words printed on this sight seemed to indicate. Not so much from Chris and Adam but from their guests. I just want one more year and then I am just pouring everything in gold/Platinum/Palladium, 20 more acres of wooded land across the road from me, and hopefully pass it along to my son's. Naturally if we need it we'll take it but that wasn't our plan. My Lady and I practice what we preach too, but we just do it and let that be the example to our family. Thing is my Son's, their wives and the Grandson's come up every couple of weeks and pitch in. We have a rule, no working past 11am but we complete our projects. If done we help the others so we are in the heated pool by 11;30. Then again, they are NOT required to do a thing but they do. We love sticking a shovel in the ground, working on bettering everything and this will be our retirement years. It gets no better than this. Surely! Granny, we have busted our ass our whole lives, think of me as a poor kid too that managed things well. Besides, when I look back the poor years were the best. We had way more time together just sitting at the table playing Sorry with the kids. Long time ago but great memories came out of it. The strength of our family was formed during the lean years that seemed to persist a lot longer than we thought. The kids had to have the new Jordan's and that was in the day when those shoes could bust the budget on the quick.  I am not saying you are poor, from your writings you are clearly way more than that. You have decided to leave and that is unfortunate, I have enjoyed you here a long, long time and wish you would stay. In saying this I think you know best so go knowing you are respected, have value and hope you come back just as pissed off as you sometimes are. Granny, sometimes being angry is so counter productive. Look at the whole of the person more, see that their busting theirs asses too, know that they don't know everything but know it isn't for lack of trying. I think and I mean this, that this site needs to operate just as Adam and Chris operate it. Respect that they have their blood and guts poured into this, then go do what they talk about on these pages outside with their Lady's, the very ones they go to for what they truly need. Above all, that's where their LOYALTY lies and should be. I can say this honestly, no one here at PP is even close to what my Lady means to me and I don't have any vested interest in anyone here, I come for the well written words and the podcasts of a diverse group of people to sharpen the edges of all the sabre's I store in my gut and then make all my decisions based on the 4000 hours of research I pour into every day to try and prepare for what is going to happen in 3 to 6 hence. Love numbers/data. Granny, you got your pound of flesh and I'm not judging you at all. There is NO WAY anyone can clearly state you are this person or that. They think they know but they don't, even me. I just don't let things bother me that doesn't concern me.  Regards and Good Luck...Peace

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  • Wed, May 27, 2020 - 2:01pm

    #97

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    2+

    Why Not Restart The "Related Content"

    Every blog post Chris and Adam does has a section right at the end of it for "Related Content". Right now the current posts on the Covid19 outbreak all have a list of the recent posts related to that but that's not always the case.

    Look here at the DIY Garden post (at the point just before comments)

    https://www.peakprosperity.com/how-to-install-raised-garden-beds/

    You see a host of related content, many done by PP members and others. Why not set up a way for people to submit those again?

    A full website search that works might be a long way off but perhaps a limited mechanism that allows searching these posts would help.

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  • Wed, May 27, 2020 - 5:15pm

    Hladini

    Hladini

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 28 2011

    Posts: 225

    1+

    AK Granny We're On Our Own

    Granny, we are on our own.  I have been trying to figure out how to weather these storms since I found the Crash Course and The Transition Handbook, thinking will the 'big one' come in my lifetime?

    It looks like we are there.

    As for the info on the markets and especially the Fed, the information may not be as clearly actionable us bottom 49%, but you never know.

    As for creating a world worth inheriting, I think that's on us.  What can we create that's worth inheriting or maybe emulating?

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  • Wed, May 27, 2020 - 6:21pm

    #99

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

    6+

    Don't Confuse A Book With A Library

    (Last post on this subject for me.)

    Whenever I go to estate sales with my sister, its funny to see what we each buy. She buys knick knacks and things she can turn into adornments for her flower beds. I tend to buy old books.

    People my generation and older (I'm 62) tended to be readers and the books from our youth were more than the fluff so many are now. I mostly get gardening books, herbals and folk medicines, and old time skills.

    I want to point out that I never expect one book to be the ultimate guide to everything. In fact I prefer a book which has focus, so that the author can explore the subject in depth.

    I look at websites in the same way. Wikipedia may cover almost all subjects but they do it in the most surface of manners. Give me a website that only covers a few things, because that is one where the owners have expertise in.

    Peak Prosperity is one such website. Trying to be all things, would make this (or any site) be of no things well.

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  • Wed, May 27, 2020 - 8:54pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 754

    2+

    Hladini, you're too late. Granny is gone.

    I think AKGrannyWGrit is gone, likely moderated off the site.  She had already made a decision to put her energies elsewhere. But it looks like she had a farewell post that was removed. Adam would need to clarify or confirm.

    I wish her well, as I'm sure a few other PP members do also.

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  • Fri, May 29, 2020 - 3:24pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 754

    CanadianPrepper, "America is Burning: BE READY!" (video)

    Another thoughtful video from Nate at CanadianPrepper, this time regarding the recent protests concerning George Floyd's death, "America is Burning: BE READY!"  (5/29/20).

     

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  • Sun, May 31, 2020 - 12:53am

    yagasjai

    yagasjai

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 18 2009

    Posts: 117

    2+

    What I See

    I missed reading this thread as it was happening and regret not being able to weigh in earlier. I have been reading this site for over 10 years. And as others have said, sometimes have to translate what I read here in order to apply it to my life, and still I find tremendous value in the perspectives and the lens of the three E's that Chris offers. The framework allows me to be an early adapter in ways that are possible for me in my life. As I have said previously, it's not that I attempt to copy Chris or follow him step-by-step, because I am a different person with different needs and circumstances, but it's that I can apply what I learn to my own life, as best as I can, and build the resiliency that is possible for me. (And assist others to do the same.)

    And what I notice is that Chris IS growing and shifting, as best he can, amidst the crises at hand, in the direction of including commentary as it relates to low-income people. I notice a marked difference in content that addresses these concerns, even from a year or two ago, and it is my sense that this trend needs to be encouraged. Opening oneself to understanding the unconscious biases we are handed by our society simply by virtue of where we happened to land (with a particular set of obstacles and opportunities) is not an easy task, even in the best of circumstances. And I do notice and appreciate his willingness to learn and grow even when it is uncomfortable. That's part of the integrity he speaks of, neither right or left, but up and down, and that's a key piece of why I trust his thinking, even if he isn't coming from a place that includes all the lenses that I have had access to which he may not.

    Having space for people to share what they see through their lens is essential for building a complete and comprehensive picture of the reality before us, because not one of us holds all the pieces. Every single one of us is missing many lenses, simply by virtue of where we landed. It's not our fault (no blame) and at the same time it is our responsibility to expand our awareness so that we can both contribute to and benefit from the collective intelligence of a wide range of lens holders. There are viewpoints and lenses that have been absolutely decimated for centuries (i.e. indigenous wisdom, feminine wisdom, working people wisdom) which are now more than ever before essential for human survival. And sometimes part of our role (if we are in any kind of privileged position) is simply to create an opening for those needed perspectives to more fully show themselves.

    I cannot imagine what this has been like for Chris or Adam or their families. So I don't find it useful to criticize or attack them for what they might be missing when they are clearly cranking out high-quality, thoughtful, content, month after month (no blame). And at the same time I continue to hold out other lenses to look through and possible perspectives to hold because they now have a much wider and more diverse readership, which means an opportunity to reach farther than they might have imagined. It is up to them (responsibility) to continue to widen their lens so that those readers can also find a home here. For me, a world worth inheriting has many lenses.

    And so I would have to disagree with those who are of the opinion that granny was avoiding doing the work. She was offering another lens. That takes effort. In my mind that is akin to picking up a broom. And if her efforts aren't exactly the way we would do it, that may actually be the very point she is asking us to consider. Sometimes it can be a stretch to recognize, from the limits of our own lenses, that the dissonance may actually be a gift if it can be received instead of dismissed.

    "The universe is full of magical things patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper." -Eden Phillpotts, (1862 - 1960) was an English author, poet, and playwright. The quote is sometimes attributed to others.

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