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    Market Mayhem Update: Is It Safe To Re-Enter?

    We put this question to Peak Prosperity's endorsed financial advisor
    by Adam Taggart

    Friday, March 27, 2020, 9:40 AM

After last week’s continued meltdown, stocks rebounded sharply earlier this week, with Tuesday’s gains setting an all-time one-day record for both point and percentage gain:

Stock take record leap

Questions we’re now hearing from PP.com readers over the past few days include:

  • Given the announced QE and $2 trillion stimulus package, is the bottom now in?
  • With the news that physical supply of gold is “running out”, what does that mean for gold & silver prices? For the mining stocks?
  • What steps should investors like me be taking now?

To answer these questions, I just recorded another brief interview with the lead partners at New Harbor Financial, the financial advisor Peak Prosperity endorses.

While the S&P 500 remains down -25% since the February highs, New Harbor’s general portfolio is up over the same period. THAT’S the power of conservative management and prudent risk mitigation.

In the short video below, they emphasize that it’s not too late to take smart steps with your portfolio against further market downside:

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Anyone interested in scheduling a free consultation and portfolio review with Mike and John can do so by clicking here.

And if you’re one of the many readers brand new to Peak Prosperity over the past few weeks, we strongly urge you get your financial situation in order in parallel with your physical coronavirus preparations.

We recommend you do so in partnership with a professional financial advisor who understands the macro risks to the market that we discuss on this website. If you’ve already got one, great.

But if not, consider talking to the team at New Harbor. We’ve set up this ‘free consultation’ relationship with them to help folks exactly like you.

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76 Comments

  • Fri, Mar 27, 2020 - 10:35am

    #1

    Adam Taggart

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: May 25 2009

    Posts: 5509

    Sorry, folks! Correct video inserted now

    Urg -- this post accidentally launched with last week's video in place.

    We've updated it with today's new video.

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  • Fri, Mar 27, 2020 - 10:39am

    #2

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1043

    17+

    Balance

    I realize the majority of the readership here is not like me.  Most are educated, well-to-do and are concerned about their stock portfolios.

    On the other hand, I and the majority of poor and kinda middle class don’t need a financial advisor or are following the stock market because -

    • we have no extra money
    • we don’t have stocks in the stock market (except perhaps pensions)
    • many of us have no retirement
    • many of us are worried about how we can pay the electric bill and feed our kids
    • many of us have NO job

    Sooo you’ll can understand why I am suggesting perhaps an article from Charles Hugh Smith on how the majority of people are going to survive.

    I have tried to make this sound polite, while my rude, insensitive, self  screams at me “ who cares about well-to-do folks and their worry about their money when a shit-load of people are worrying about how to survive. ( you know eat, car payment)

    My kids own their own business and some of yours do to.  What do you think their concerns are?  Why are we not talking about that?

    Cranky Granny

    Sorry Adam!

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  • Fri, Mar 27, 2020 - 10:56am

    #3
    ao

    ao

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    Posts: 1286

    the allegory of the hawk and the serpent

    Another perspective on how to manage these times.

    https://docsend.com/view/taygkbn

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  • Fri, Mar 27, 2020 - 12:25pm

    #4

    thatchmo

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Dec 13 2008

    Posts: 232

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    prep for consultation with New Harbor

    I'm one of those that have been out of the market since '09.  Been meaning to call NH for several years, perhaps now is the time.  To respect their time constraints, and make the best of an initial consultation, what personal financial info should I have readily available when first contacting the folks at NH?  Aloha, Steve.

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  • Fri, Mar 27, 2020 - 12:56pm

    #5
    Dontknownothin

    Dontknownothin

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 14 2020

    Posts: 21

    Too early, too late... the virus is with us now.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/27/822407626/mystery-in-wuhan-recovered-coronavirus-patients-test-negative-then-positive

    The article suggests people are reinfected and even after recovery pick it up again. Theres a high likelihood, given the long life of the virus on many surfaces, that once their self-isolated environment is contaminated, they get reinfected over and over again.

    As soon as the asymptomatic are released from quarantine, they will carry the virus back into the workplace and it will spike again.

    Now there are over 40 known mutations and there's no telling how those close relatives of the virus infecting you today will affect you tomorrow. I think this only gets worse, there's no stopping this spread if the body doesn't kill it every time it is reintroduced.

    The only way to get the economy going again is to relax some sectors little by little, and trickle people back into the market so the virus runs its course through a smaller population sample and doesn't overwhelm the medical system all at once. Only then can you get herd immunity and have a functional (though not necessarily thriving) economy.

    That's really all there is to do.

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  • Fri, Mar 27, 2020 - 1:01pm

    ao

    ao

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    AKGranny, a journey begins with the first step

    Here's a first step people can take to help themselves financially right now.  Dave Ramsey is offering a two week free trial of his program because of the circumstances of the corona virus.  FREE!  For people who have time on their hands now, they can easily go through the whole program in a week.

    https://www.daveramsey.com/?utm_source=google&utm_id=go_cmp-197939186_adg-10546208306_ad-229719307668_kwd-42626442_dev-c_ext-_prd-&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI06yYyrS76AIVrP_jBx03-QwZEAAYASAAEgLkDfD_BwE

    Just go down to Try Financial Peace for Free and click on the Start Your Trial tab.  Our church and many other churches offer this course for a very reasonable and worthwhile cost (of $100 if I recall correctly) and it has helped thousands of people.  But it's available now for free.  There is other useful free information available from his organization as well.   The organization does have a Christian world view but the information can help almost everyone.

    It goes without saying that "In this world, you will have trouble" and these are indeed historically tough times for many but there are also proven strategies to address most of these troubles, if only we avail ourselves of them, persevere, and don't lose heart.

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  • Fri, Mar 27, 2020 - 1:06pm

    Dontknownothin

    Dontknownothin

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    Wrong thread. Lol

    This was really meant for a different thread but it still stands.

    The banks and hedge funds are on very tenuous ground. Once Q1 financials are reported the markets will know the true cost of the virus, but to be honest, the virus is just a smokescreen for underlying issues in the market that were there since the bailouts in 08. I think bluechips are a good opportunity right now, but I expect the market to go lower after APR 1.

     

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  • Fri, Mar 27, 2020 - 1:42pm

    Adam Taggart

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: May 25 2009

    Posts: 5509

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    The form is fine place to start

    Steve -

    The short form you fill out to schedule the consultation (found here) gives them a fine foundation for starting the discussion.

    Beyond that, while not necessary, it would be helpful to have the following ready to share with NH to accelerate the conversation:

    • a breakdown of your main assets (401k, brokerage account, house, PMs, etc) and liabilities (mortgage, other large debts, kids' college, aging parent to support, etc) with ballpark $ estimates of each
    • Your annual income and any material changes you may expect it will undergo in the next 5-10 years
    • financial goals (retire at age X with $Y in savings/$Z in investment income, build our dream home, start a company, sail around the world for year, etc)
    • your level of risk tolerance

    Other than that, just bring your aloha spirit!

    cheers,
    A

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  • Fri, Mar 27, 2020 - 1:45pm

    #9

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

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    Thank You ao

    I think your heart in in the right place and your suggestion certainly has a great deal of value.

    However,  I invite you to see the underlying message.  If you are not in the position of having to need the services of a financial planner or be able to invest in the stock market then you might want to learn to be better managers of your finances.  A little insulting, it’s not money management its no Job and few prospects that is the problem.

    Copious amounts of people just lost their jobs.  Small businesses have no business!  Taking Dave Ramsey’s class, regardless of how good it is - isn’t the answer.  Your point - you are trying to help. I acknowledge and am grateful.  My point - a lot, many, many people are hurting and the main topic seems to be omg, lets get the financial advisors and protect our precious portfolios.  Where are the discussions regarding the majority of the population and what they are going through?  I would not say anything but there has not been balance.  I get this is Chris and Adam’s website.  But if the message is “lets create a world worth inheriting” that does not mean you get to be rich while me and mine have no jobs and are hungry. That’s not a world worth inheriting.

    The Great Depression II will be nothing like the first one.  People are now selfish, mean, have few morals, were raised on porn and violence and are armed.  The plight of the poor, middle class, and demoralized can only be ignored and hidden for so long.  Then all the numbers on your portfolios wont mean much.

    Just my opinion.  When your closer to the bottom your view is different.  And you should be wary, very.

    Disappointed Granny

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  • Fri, Mar 27, 2020 - 3:32pm

    yagasjai

    yagasjai

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    Joined: Apr 18 2009

    Posts: 117

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    Illusions are Crumbling

    Granny,

    I hear you. Suggestions for people of modest means to "figure it out better," miss the context that the system itself is set up to ensure that the vast majority of people don't have enough. Why? Because there actually isn't enough. There is always less currency than debt in the system because the currency is created at the time a loan is issued. The interest is not. Therefore, there must always be more debt issued, in order to cover the interest on the previous loans, and therefore the system must perpetually grow.

    To say it another way: there is a built-in scarcity of the thing people need to survive (currency) which we experience as a chronic sense of there not being enough (not as the system growing too much). We experience it this way because that's what's actually happening! This built-in dynamic is what forces us to compete with each other to win the currency we need to pay our debts (simply for existing, house, car, etc... I'm not talking about luxuries) and also sets up a certain segment of the population to never have enough unless more debt is created. Systems produce outcomes based on how the system is set up. Poverty is an outcome of the system we have. If we want a different outcome, we need a different system.

    Sound money- backed by gold and silver- is the historical default that will likely surface again at some point. But all the gold and silver in the world cannot account for or replace clean air or water, a functional eco-system, insects to pollinate plants, predictable weather patterns in which food can be reliably grown, etc... So I can't help but wonder, and would be very interested to hear what CM or CHS has to say about it, at what point will we be able to shift to a new way of thinking about value? Where what is on the surface (trees, plants, oxygen-givers, pollinators, ecosystems) are actually valued more than what is in the ground (gold, silver, oil). Could we back our currency by carbon sequestration or oxygen production as the most valuable commodity (since every living thing actually depends on it...) and thereby protect the means of production for life itself? At what point will we shift to basing our economic models on something other than production?

    We are already seeing the value of economic inactivity in terms of halting the spread of this virus. It's throwing a huge wrench in the workings of our conventional world-view of where value lies. And many are awakening to another perspective, at least the one that is emerging for me, as I face the reality that I cannot hold onto what was, and I also cannot resist what is coming, is that there is a reality here that cannot be entirely removed by the crumbling illusions about what wealth and value are.

    People exist. Plants exist. The sun rises. The rain falls. People have knowledge and skills. People have relationships. Those things will remain regardless of what happens to our financial system and our currency. A functioning economy makes it easier to get the things we need. But a non-functioning economy doesn't erase the other 7 forms of capital.

    So in that sense, those of us with limited means, who have invested in other forms of capital, may be ahead of the curve in terms of being able to lead those who have focused on primarily financial capital. Which is not to say that the harsh realities of being poor or middle class don't exist. They do! They are real! For millions of us, probably more than are ready for it, because the illusion of the middle class still exists in the US. But it doesn't really. The middle, and even upper middle, are closer to the bottom than most realize. And that is going to be incredibly disorienting for a lot of people. To think they are secure and suddenly find that the illusion of security has vanished.

    Which is why, those of us who can and have prepared for ourselves, need to stand ready to assist those who are just now going through their own adjustment reactions. But beyond that, we also get to stand ready to push for an arrangement of our economy that does not set us up against each other in the way that the current arrangement does and to stand ready to say we want a system that actually meets human needs instead of profiting off the deprivation of them (depleted food system, chronic health issues, shortages of PPE for medical workers.) That is the piece that has been missing for me on this website. It's bigger than individually attempting to create a world worth inheriting, to actually create such a world it will require the majority of people to rise up and demand real change. That requires leadership and bridging across common divides. We have a start, ironically, with the social distancing. People limiting their own activities/desires for the good of the whole. How do we go about expanding that into a new understanding of economy?

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  • Fri, Mar 27, 2020 - 4:45pm

    #11
    Steve

    Steve

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    Joined: Jun 27 2009

    Posts: 171

    4+

    Consultation

    I did a consultation with the financial advisors.  The advisor was informative and helpful.  Though I knew I was in the wrong place early in the discussion when he told me their clients were typically in the one to ten million dollar range of investment assets.

    I asked what the minimum investment would be.  The response was they would like to see a minimum of $100k.

    I do have some assets, but mostly in rental property and PM's.  Without 100K of cash to invest, I did not feel the financial advisors are very interested in me as a client.

    He was helpful and kind. He took time with me to discuss my situation.  He felt I was pretty well diversified already and didn't appear to be interested in taking me on as a client without at least $100k to invest.

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  • Fri, Mar 27, 2020 - 5:06pm

    Linda T

    Linda T

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    Joined: Jun 09 2014

    Posts: 132

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    Illusions are Crumbling

    yagasjai,

    I wish I could give you 2 likes, did give you one. Your post was well said and thoughtful. It reminds me of the paradigm shift (which I’ve thought of more than once recently) I have heard of for the last few years, in numerous books and online articles, guest appearances from authors, etc. One example, Charles Einstein has been to Portland a few times and I've heard him twice (and I recognized a few people there), that the new paradigm needs to be born at the same time (and we go through birthing pains) as the old paradigm of greed and competition is collapsing and dying... This pandemic sure seems to be shaking up things, both our internal and external worlds...

    Linda

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  • Fri, Mar 27, 2020 - 6:04pm

    ao

    ao

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    AKGranny, i'm going to pose a question

    What factors do you think determine the difference between someone who achieves a certain level of financial security and someone who doesn't?

    Permit me if I may to present a real life example.  You have two families.  Both have a husband and wife with two children, a boy and a girl with the same spread in ages.  Both have comparable backgrounds of coming from poor families with education at or below high school level.  Both had a head of household with the same blue collar job.  Both experienced times in their life of unemployment and serious illness of a family member.  Both lived in comparable houses in comparable communities with comparable socioeconomic demographics.  Both had similar lives with regards to family relationships, friendships, social lives, etc.  One wound up a widow living in poverty.  One wound up a widow with a 7 figure portfolio, living frugally but securely.  What do you think led to these differences?  Feel free to speculate and write whatever you think, be it fact or fiction.  This is a useful thought exercise.

    BTW, if you take the time to go through videos, blogs, etc. on DR's site, you'll find it's about more than just money management.

    And here's a disclaimer.  I don't use a financial planner.  Too expensive.  I also am not invested in the stock market.  Too risky.

     

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  • Fri, Mar 27, 2020 - 6:35pm

    #14

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

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    Ao

    Before blind auditions the percentage of women in major symphony orchestras was 5%.  Today, 25 years layer its close to 50%.

    There could be exhaustive discussions about bias, discrimination, instinctive judgement. Hard work, natural ability and on and on. But the solution was not to point fingers it was to change the context.  Screens were put up so the judges had NO visuals to judge, only the ability to hear the performer.  When the context was changed, the outcome changed.

    AKGrannyWGrit

     

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  • Fri, Mar 27, 2020 - 7:29pm

    ao

    ao

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    AKGranny, i posed a question

    The question was about apples and you didn't reply even about oranges.  You told me the equivalent (in terms of relevance) of the time of day.  I don't get what discrimination against women has to do with the question I posed.

    So I'll pose the question again with a slight change.

    What factors do you think determine the difference between someone who achieves a certain level of financial security and someone who doesn’t, given that the two are approximately equivalent in their life circumstances?

    I'm just attempting to use the Socratic method here applied to the problem.

    >

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  • Fri, Mar 27, 2020 - 7:39pm

    #16

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1043

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    I Gave You An Answer

    Two people are equivalent in musical ability and  “pre screen auditions” 95% were men. “Post screen” auditions the gender numbers became almost equal.  Change the context, remove the bias and the outcome changed.

    Thats all the answer I am going to give.  It is perfectly sufficient!🤓

     

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  • Fri, Mar 27, 2020 - 7:48pm

    #17

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

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    You can't help others, if you haven't helped yourself

    My point – a lot, many, many people are hurting and the main topic seems to be omg, lets get the financial advisors and protect our precious portfolios.  Where are the discussions regarding the majority of the population and what they are going through?  I would not say anything but there has not been balance.  I get this is Chris and Adam’s website.  But if the message is “lets create a world worth inheriting” that does not mean you get to be rich while me and mine have no jobs and are hungry. That’s not a world worth inheriting.

    Granny I have to disagree with you. Ao's desire to make sure his clan is protected first is not unreasonable. You can't help others, if you are in a position of weakness. I didn't see where Ao wanted to profit off of others misfortunes. And its not Ao's responsibility to neglect their welfare to try and right systemic cultural wrongs.

    Most of us are here because we recognize that the present system is not working and we want to at least make sure our own welfare is protected. Once that is secure, I see many here who will probably step forward to help those less fortunate. But you can't blame people who want to secure their own safety first, like you just did, for the wrongs in our society.

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  • Fri, Mar 27, 2020 - 8:12pm

    #18

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1043

    Dtrammel - we are speaking different languages

     

    Most of us are here because we recognize that the present system is not working and we want to at least make sure our own welfare is protected. Once that is secure, I see many here who will probably step forward to help those less fortunate. But you can’t blame People who want to secure their own safety first, like you just did, for the wrongs in our society.

    Like the bankers and politicians and corporate crooks.  Me and mine at the expense of you and yours.  I get it.  But that is not creating a world worth inheriting in my book.

    Perhaps this video explains what I seem to be unable to get across.

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  • Fri, Mar 27, 2020 - 8:24pm

    yagasjai

    yagasjai

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    On blame

    It's fascinating to see how blame has crept into this conversation and derailed us from seeing our common purpose. I picked up on a subtext of blame in ao's response to AKGrannyWGrit which read to me as the implication, whether it was intended or not, what came across to me with the "question posed" post, was that if a person was not somehow able to pull themselves out of poverty by their bootstraps then in some way it was their own fault or personal failing (is in some way to blame), the counterpoint being that anyone who is able to make their way out is free from blame. Yet I'm not sure what any of us actually want is finger pointing, which tends to be ineffective because blame is like a hot potato that no one wants to land on them. If the focus is there, we miss the bigger issue, which is the nature of the system and how the collapse of this system is going to land disproportionately on certain segments of the population specifically because of the way that system has siphoned resources away from the vast majority of us.

    The answer is both/and. It's not either/or. Certainly individuals or clans (as dtrammel points out) being as prepared as possible removes a certain burden from an overloaded medical system, and as CM points out, we who can avoid getting caught it in can then be in a position to help. AND it is also true that many people are caught in it now, and many more will be caught it in, through no fault of their own, simply by virtue of where they landed when they were born and what assets (opportunities/resources) and liabilities (hardships/oppressions) they had to contend with in their lives. I've read studies that show that with an inordinate amount of luck, for something like 20 consecutive years, a person can pull themselves out of poverty in the US. But with the deck stacked so heavily against so many people, can we be 100% sure that only determination, fortitude, and frugality that are essential ingredients that determine whether a person "makes it" or not? I would think that access to a like-minded community, possibly a mentor, a school teacher that believed in you, and those kinds of intangibles are also contributing factors to a person's "success." But that goes back to the question of the paradigm shift that is upon us- do we still want the 7-figure salary to be the yardstick by which we measure success in the first place?

    I was raised by school teachers, a very high value was placed on good grades, and I was regularly top of my class. For years I never understood there was any other way to measure success in that setting, because that was the way I had always been measured. But then I came to understand that some parents saw it differently than mine did. Some parents were more pleased that their child was happy, enjoyed their life or had a network of good, close, reliable friends, for example. Even if they didn't get straight A's. Where my father grilled me, after getting a 99% on the 9th grade REGENTS math test (NY State exam) when I was only in 8th grade, as to what I had missed, HE was missing something as well. He could have picked another standard to measure my success by. And in this time of economic collapse, when we tend to judge ourselves and each other by a particular measuring stick, it seems like a good time to be asking if that's the same measuring stick we want to keep using going forward.

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  • Fri, Mar 27, 2020 - 8:25pm

    #20

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

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    We could be Granny

    Me and mine at the expense of you and yours.

    We could be speaking different languages but my point is, not everyone who wants to make sure their situation is secured first is one of the "me and mine". You seem to be ready to lump anyone who doesn't think of others first as part of the problem. I disagree.

    Since I'm not inclined to get into a protracted argument over this, I will leave it at that.

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  • Fri, Mar 27, 2020 - 8:42pm

    #21

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

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    Me too.

    You seem to be ready to lump anyone who doesn’t think of others first as part of the problem. I disagree.

    I never said we should think of others first!

    But I see little of thinking of the negatively impacted by this situation at all.  Where are the discussions like those in the video.  Continuing to ignore gross inequality will collapse our society.  Very few want to look at that.

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  • Fri, Mar 27, 2020 - 8:50pm

    ao

    ao

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    AKGranny, so be it

    I won't bother returning to that subject.  There's no point.  You state it's perfectly sufficient.  But in earlier declarations, you implied the opposite.  And it apparently is the opposite.  Otherwise, why would you be so vocal about your dissatisfaction and angry with your and your children's personal state of affairs?

    But I will relate something about life in general.  Spending time and effort on critical self-analysis, self-development, self-improvement, self awareness, and life long learning (and application of that learning) yields tremendous benefits including improving one's resilience, satisfaction in life, joy in life, etc.  One can encounter adverse context and bias and by these means still overcome and not only survive but thrive.  But if one stubbornly clings to what they are (when it's not working) and what is (when it's not working) rather than striving to be the very best they can be and working towards what can be, they will be stuck.  It doesn't matter what aspect of life.  Physical development, mental development, relationships, finances, what have you.  They will be stuck and remain so until their attitude and orientation changes.

    The answers are all out there and readily accessible to almost everyone.  But when ego protection and stubbornness takes precedence over self improvement and flexibility, one blocks learning and blocks change and stays the same.  And staying the same isn't growth, it's a living death.  Doesn't matter whether we're talking about an individual here, a small business, or on up the scale to a nation.  Ego protection and pride isn't grit.  It's self delusion and, quite frankly, foolishness. The sad thing is, the majority of our population falls into this category and they pass it on to their offspring as well and both endure a lot of needless suffering as a consequence.  We're seeing the results of that mindset now.  And so much of it is avoidable.  What a shame!  But it is certainly understandable.  We have a population that has been programmed to think and act as victims and the programming is very strong and difficult to break.  When you have victims rather than independent, self reliant, sovereign citizens, you have a population which is much easier to control and subjugate.

    There's a book written by Richard Bach, the author of "Jonathan Livingston Seagull" (a wonderful book as well), called "Illusions".  I'd recommend reading it if for nothing more than understanding the verse that states: "Argue for your limitations and sure enough, they're yours."  We can embrace our limitations or we can work to free ourselves from them.  The choice is always ours.  We each design our own lives.  When we look at the scope of our lives, from start to now, realize that most of it has come about from our decisions.  For many, they seem to derive a certain twisted satisfaction from grumbling and griping about it rather than humbling themselves, recognizing their errors and not repeating those errors, and rising above their past.  And they usually want the world to change but don't want to change themselves.  We can't control the world but we do have some level of control over our own thoughts and actions and that can be our salvation ... or not.

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  • Fri, Mar 27, 2020 - 9:00pm

    #23

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1043

    3+

    Yagasjai

    Thank you that was well thought and relevant.

    And in this time of economic collapse, when we tend to judge ourselves and each other by a particular measuring stick, it seems like a good time to be asking if that’s the same measuring stick we want to keep using going forward.

    The video pointed out renters got nothing in the mega bail-out.  This is an example of gross inequality.  There is little discussion about this kind of subject but much discussion on growing ones wealth.  I often feel like the lone wolf he that says that focus will be our undoing.  So very glad to have another voice that understands.

    AKGrannyWGrit

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  • Fri, Mar 27, 2020 - 9:43pm

    #24

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

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    Posts: 1043

    1+

    So be It ao

    Otherwise, why would you be so vocal about your dissatisfaction and angry with your and your children’s personal state of affairs?

    What?  You assume to much.  I am not angry, I might use the fact that my children own their own businesses as an example but unhappy, or angry thats your assumption.  And I am happy with my state of affairs perhaps its you who is unhappy.

    You seemed to want to ask a question so you could produce a lecture.  Not interested.

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  • Fri, Mar 27, 2020 - 9:54pm

    ao

    ao

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    yagasjai, sorry to hear about the imbalance in your parents' emphasis

    Being measured by one's grades alone is a pretty sad measure.  Forgive me but I'm reminded of Robert Kyosaki's (not always true) statement that 'A' students work for 'C' students and 'B' students work for the government, a statement that, true or not, is sure to alienate all but the 'C' students, lol.  But what's wrong with emphasizing grades and a work ethic and the importance of family and the importance of friendships and the importance of being self responsible and the importance of serving others and the importance of faith and so on.  Why not aspire to the best in all areas?  I was blessed to have wonderful parents.  They certainly wanted me to get good grades but it was more important that I did my best, no matter what it was about and that I have a balanced and physically, mentally, and spiritually healthy and happy life.  And we passed those values on to our children.  They excelled in school but they were also kind and thoughtful, helped others, and gave back in service to those less fortunate than themselves.  They worked hard but they also took time to play.  They learned to tithe and would give also money and time to various charitable projects.  One of the memories they've talked about was serving Thanksgiving dinners as a family to the homeless.  My son did volunteer work in college in poverty stricken areas including Detroit, Atlanta, and New Orleans.  He did 27 months in the Peace Corps in Nepal after college.  And he presently coaches underprivileged Somali youth in soccer in Denver.  My daughter did missionary work in France and Central America including going into dangerous gang run areas in El Salvador and she continues to be active in charitable activities through her church to this day.  I'm not rich but I'm also not poor.  I worked 60 to 70 hours per week for what I have and have donated generously to both church and charities throughout my working career and done pro bono work as well, giving back some of the blessings I received.  So financial success and social responsibility are not mutually exclusive as often seems to be implied by those who resent financial success because perhaps they haven't experienced it themselves and are vocal about social responsibility without demonstrating a whole lot of it themselves (although they are more than willing to encourage their government to demonstrate it using other people's money).

    With regards to blame, if you have two parties with virtually identical life situations and one has life success but one doesn't, whose fault is that?  Anyone but the party responsible?  That doesn't work for me.  If something goes awry in my life, do you know who I blame?  I usually blame myself because that's usually where blame lies.  But if I don't recognize that and try to put the blame elsewhere, I'd wind up stuck in the same situation or similar one.  Only by taking personal responsibility can I rectify the situation and avoid making the same mistake in the future and being stuck in the same situation.

    There's a word that rhymes with blame.  It's called shame.  Both blame and shame have become very unpopular which is entirely understandable.  Who wants to experience them?  But if I do something that is indeed shameful, should I not experience shame?  Isn't shame an unpleasant emotion which is designed to change my behavior so I don't repeat that behavior again and bring on that feeling again?  That brings to mind another unpopular word, judgement.  Ever notice that the people who say, "Don't judge me" usually have done something that they themselves at least subconsciously feel they should be judged for.  Otherwise, why would they even say that?  One can wallow in marxist political correctness and continue to repeat faulty behaviors or one can take personal responsibility and change behaviors.  It's a choice.

    This is not to take away the responsibility of TPTB that have inflicted pain and suffering on others but if one gives way to a victimhood mentality, one gives them even more control over us.  Whether it's big government or big corporations or the entities that oversee both, they can't do anything to us without us giving them at least partial permission.  And until we take full responsibility for that, the affronts will continue and, in fact, will grow in magnitude.  We ultimately have the power.  The question is what are we, both individually and collectively, going to do about it.

     

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  • Fri, Mar 27, 2020 - 10:20pm

    ao

    ao

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    AKGranny, you could have fooled me

    You have a strange way of expressing your happiness.  Heck, you called yourself "Cranky Granny".  Does cranky=happy in your universe?

    There's an old hapkido story.  The master draws a line in the dirt and asks the student how to make that line shorter.  The student suggests cutting the line in half.  The master then draws a longer line next to the first line.  You get the point I hope.

    You talk about income inequality.  Yes, it exists.  Yes, it is not good.  In fact, it's a highly destabilizing situation.  So is educational inequality which is one of the root causes of income equality.  But you seem a bit resistant to education, including financial education.  And it's a bit arrogant to claim you're the only one talking about it.  Go back in the archives and you can find it was beaten to death in the two years before you ever showed up.  So where's your solution?  I'm all ears.  I'm open to learning.  Are you?

    You condemn Adam for writing an article about growing your wealth and others for discussing growing their wealth.  You're cutting the line in half.  He and others (myself included if you were willing) are trying to show you and others (and we're all learning from one another) how to make your line longer.  But strangely, you resist.   Have you ever considered making your line longer?

    Do you know the final step in Dave Ramsey's program?  It's getting yourself to the point of financial independence where you can give even more than your tithe. If you're not financially secure yourself, then it's very difficult for you to help others be secure.

    So I posed this question in the past, and you dodged it, as you often do the hard questions.  How are you, you personally, helping others now?  I'd really like to hear.  Maybe we can all learn something.  And bleeding from your heart doesn't count.;-)

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  • Fri, Mar 27, 2020 - 10:25pm

    Yoxa

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    Victim mindset

    AO, I agree with you that a victim mindset is not helpful, but "blame the victim" is worse.

    Sometimes life is genuinely unfair. Many of us think we succeeded because we were smart but the truth is we were also very lucky. It behooves us to stay humble and not be too quick to assume that someone else's difficult situation is entirely their own fault.

    Granny's example of how symphony auditions turn out differently when the players are heard but not seen is a cogent illustration of how bias can lead to both injustices and suboptimal results. If biases in judging mean that the symphony doesn't hire the best musicians, everyone loses.

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  • Fri, Mar 27, 2020 - 10:36pm

    thatchmo

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    thatchmo said:

     The question is what are we, both individually and collectively, going to do about it.

     

    Glad you asked!

    https://www.peakprosperity.com/forum-topic/when-the-people-lead-2/

    Sorry man, I just can't seem to drop this....but awaiting suggestions for more effective actions!  Aloha, be well.  Steve

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  • Fri, Mar 27, 2020 - 10:36pm

    yagasjai

    yagasjai

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    The Relationship Between Blame and Responsibility

    "With regards to blame, if you have two parties with virtually identical life situations and one has life success but one doesn’t, whose fault is that?  Anyone but the party responsible?  That doesn’t work for me.  If something goes awry in my life, do you know who I blame?  I usually blame myself because that’s usually where blame lies.  But if I don’t recognize that and try to put the blame elsewhere, I’d wind up stuck in the same situation or similar one.  Only by taking personal responsibility can I rectify the situation and avoid making the same mistake in the future and being stuck in the same situation."

    This is exactly the crux of the matter! Blame is not the same thing as responsibility. It has been my personal experience that self-blame will not be as likely to be a liberating force in ones life if you also happen to experience mistreatment in our society for a condition which you had no part in creating (skin color, gender, disability, poverty) because those conditions often come with a dose of blame. Living ones life from one or more of those positions means that you come to believe it is your own fault that the mistreatment you experience happens because of something you have done. That's internalized blame. And in that case, adding blame to myself, only grinds in the internalized blame and is a difficult position to sustain action for the long term.

    If I am overweight and I hate myself for being so, and then I attempt to use the self-hatred(blame) as motivation for weight-loss, it doesn't ever work for the long term because it is only grinding in the blame I receive from society. (If I weren't starting with a heavy dose of blame from society, that might work differently, but that's hard for me to speak to because I haven't experienced it.) Only when I step outside of blame- for myself AND for everyone else- is it possible for me to shift out of the passive (victim) mindset and actually take steps in on my own behalf in the direction of my resilience. As far as I can tell blame is an incomplete attempt to hold power, by saying I am hurt and it is your fault. But my hurt is for me to move, wherever it came from. No one else can move it for me. It certainly helps to have people with me while I move it. But the tendency both to put blame outside myself, as well as, putting blame on myself, both inhibit the movement in the direction I want to go. Only when I set blame down, is it possible for me to pick up authentic responsibility. Blame and responsibility are not the same thing. This may actually be a greater shortcoming of the human race than even understanding the exponential function!

     

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  • Fri, Mar 27, 2020 - 11:01pm

    #30

    AKGrannyWGrit

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    Yagasjai - Wow

    And the concept of generational trauma is only now beginning to be looked at.  As I was growing up I heard the expression that the Natives couldn’t hold their liquor.  Dr. Gabor Mate talks about trauma that affects multiple generations and it deeply affects their lives.  It seems easier to blame them for their shortcomings than look at the whole picture.

    Blame and responsibility are not the same thing. This may actually be a greater shortcoming of the human race than even understanding the exponential function!

    That is prophetic!

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  • Fri, Mar 27, 2020 - 11:23pm

    ao

    ao

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    Yoxa, I agree with you

    Life is sometimes very unfair.  And I also agree that just because someone is experiencing adverse life circumstances, it's not necessarily their fault.  The world is filled with these examples.  But the political correctness pendulum has swung so far that many are assuming (and reinforced in that belief by others, politically motivated authorities, and the culture at large) that anything that goes wrong in their life is someone else's fault.  As you recognized, that is never a helpful position.  And the blanket cry against blaming the victim doesn't sufficiently discriminate between one time victims and those who repeatedly remain victims through their own actions and even when they are clearly shown a way out.  As the saying goes, "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me."

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  • Fri, Mar 27, 2020 - 11:44pm

    #32

    AKGrannyWGrit

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    ao your answer

    So I posed this question in the past, and you dodged it, as you often do the hard questions.  How are you, you personally, helping others now?  I’d really like to hear.

    Oh, another insult.  From past threads my experience in interacting with you has been not one where you were seeking to understand but seeking to judge.  Your condescending lectures are examples. So I will not set myself up to be judged by you - it’s none of your business.

    And I make no apologies for voicing my opinion that there is much more discussion on how to increase ones financial portfolios than there is on the plight of the disenfranchised, oppressed and forgotten.  And their lives just got substantially worse.

     

     

     

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  • Fri, Mar 27, 2020 - 11:53pm

    ao

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    yagasjai, i never said blame and responsibility were the same thing

    Also, I don't agree that skin color and gender come with a dose of blame.  How do you figure that?  Disadvantage perhaps but not blame.  Disability may or may not.  If someone has a condition such as cerebral palsy, I don't know how anyone can blame that person for that condition.  But if one smokes, drinks, or eats crap food and experiences the onset of a physical disability as a consequence of those damaging actions, are you saying they bear no blame whatsoever?  I can't agree with that.  Poverty depends upon circumstances.  Certainly being born into poverty bears no blame.  But staying in poverty in a country such as the United States, where resources and opportunities and assistance abound even now, means that person has some culpability.  Yet with each of those conditions, individuals have overcome them.  I look at someone like Ben Carson overcoming skin color, poverty, a mother with mental illness, and other problems as just one example.  Here's an example of someone overcoming real disability in stellar fashion.

    But again, shedding the victim identity is a pre-requisite.

    With regards to your second paragraph, I can follow you at first but then you lose me in some of the psychobabble.  Nevertheless, as I stated, I never said blame and responsibility were the same thing.  Also, blame can be either a positive force for change through recognizing responsibility or something that is bad, depending upon whether it is misplaced or not.  I also think one can't dismiss the role of blame, shame, judgement or guilt or sin for that matter without falling into the trap of political correctness, a marxist ideology, the goal of which is not to ensure social justice as purported but to render asunder the very foundations of capitalistic Western  civilization, a system which, by the way, has brought the world the greatest prosperity it has ever seen.

     

     

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 12:04am

    ao

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    AKGranny, no insult, just fact

    So you resort to victim status again?   You're stuck so I'm just going to drop this.  It isn't productive.  My apologies.

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 12:15am

    #35

    AKGrannyWGrit

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    Wow you end with an insult!

    So you resort to victim status again?

    You call me a victim because I refuse to give you a detailed list of how I help people.  Amazing! For years I had you on block and would today but there is not one on this new system.

    You are right our interactions are not productive so next time you you want to send me a condescending, judgmental lecture - - just don’t.

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 3:58am

    #36
    Sparky1

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    EmJayGee, re: 401K Exit strategy: penalty-free early withdrawal, passive income

    [I've tried posting FOUR times unsuccessfully to EmJayGee's question under the forums. If I make it past the Captcha, then my response simply disappears. This is the slightly condensed version.]

    Hi EmJayGee, I can appreciate your situation and dilemma.

    [Disclosure] I'm not a financial advisor, so please consult with a trained professional appropriate to your circumstance to obtain financial advice. I don't have any have any personal or business interests in the resource listed below, TheMoneyGPS or David Quintieri. Please don't run with your eyes closed holding scissors. 😉

    1) Penalty-free early withdrawal retirement funds: The Covid rescue bill that was signed today by the President included a provision for early withdrawals. The bill seems to be flexible and favorable to owners/beneficiaries of the retirement fund(s). They're likely to interpret the guidelines liberally to enable spending. Be creative. You can pay the funds back (interest free?) in 3 years or pay the penalty. Use at least a portion of the funds to seed your business venture/investment strategy. Here's an article that will get you started on your research of this option:
    Coronavirus stimulus-package tax relief: Withdraw $100K from your IRA — and repay in 3 years with zero tax liability

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/coronavirus-stimulus-package-tax-relief-withdraw-100k-from-your-ira-and-repay-in-3-years-with-zero-tax-liability-2020-03-27

    2) Strategies and passive income: I've been following David Quintieri of TheMoneyGPS for a few years. He's reputable, prolific and produces daily 10-minute videos with sound, well-research economic and financial analysis, nice charts and a dry sense of humor. (Signature phrase, "You came here for the truth, so let me unveil that for you!")

    He produced a video series of "How to and Solutions" that are informative:

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZLer2ZPv6WFvoVWhZPepRalPDnPZOE-N

    He also produced a series on e-commerce called "The Amazon GPS":

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngq92xrmmsfEgGdfAJ6giQ

    I took the course last year and it was very good. It is entirely free, but you may need to sign-up (no spam) to download the pdfs and other attachments. My plans for establishing a passive income e-commerce business were derailed due to a serious illness. I've since recuperated so will re-take the course as a refresher.

    Please keep us posted to the extent you feel comfortable. I'm sure others here (me included!) could learn from your experiences. Good luck! 🙂

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 6:03am

    Yoxa

    Yoxa

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    Not so prosperous

    capitalistic Western civilization, a system which, by the way, has brought the world the greatest prosperity it has ever seen

    It's not so prosperous when you consider that right now, in a crisis which has been foreseen for years, we don't have enough simple, low tech supplies to equip our medical professionals.

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 6:52am

    Credenda

    Credenda

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    Crumbling illusions?

    ”the old paradigm of greed and competition is collapsing and dying”  Really? I sincerely suggest you are being naive. It’s the fantasy world of “ought”.  Utopianism, which always leads to more bloodshed and misery. You fail to understand human nature I’m afraid. So let’s all trot off to become The New Socialist Man, where everybody is amazingly equal, but especially  equal if you’re a Party member. I’m sorry, I’m not venting on you personally. You are probably very nice and well-meaning. But this false idea that we can escape our nature has been taught in our schools for several generations now and so we are poised to step into yet another doomed experiment in “socialism”. Our founding fathers, for all their many faults, did understand human nature and the need for restraining its more base aspects.

    This this whole world system is dying. None of us will get out alive but some of us will not be hurt at all by the second death. In Adam’s Fall we Sinned All. Look to your Creator.

     

     

     

     

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 8:24am

    #39
    Nate

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    Enough!

    Is anyone else tired of this?

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 9:01am

    ao

    ao

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    Sorry Nate

    I should have known better.  My apologies.

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 9:04am

    #41
    ao

    ao

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    on the Worldometer site, under Closed Cases

    Death rate is now up to 17%.  The curve is still in y-axis boost phase and shows no signs of tapering off.

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 9:07am

    #42
    Nate

    Nate

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    primer on investing

    Adam wrote an excellent piece on investing for inflation adjusted income a little over a year ago.  Since he mentioned waiting until the current bubble popped, now might be a good time to reread it.

    https://www.peakprosperity.com/a-primer-on-investing-for-inflation-adjusting-income/

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 9:20am

    EmJayGee

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    EmJayGee said:

    Sparky1, thanks for writing, I don't know why replies to my other topic aren't working. Crazy. Anyhow, the problem is that since I'm disabled, I'm not actually encountering any problems due to Covid19. God forbid, if something happens to my family, this could change, but I can't think of a way to bend it to fit my situation.

    Taking 100k and moving it into PMs sounds like a decent plan if I could make this happen, and figure out how to pay it back in the next three years.

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 9:27am

    #44
    ao

    ao

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    i don't listen to Dave Ramsey but my wife does

    She passed this along to me.  My best financial decision ever was marrying her and staying married to her.

    Disclaimer: I don't buy into DR's claim that the stock market returns an average of 12% per year.  Otherwise, I'm in almost total agreement with him.

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 9:31am

    #45
    ao

    ao

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    generosity builds wealth

    Here's another one she shared.  And she's the most generous person that I know, not only with her (our) money but especially with her time.

    It also builds almost all the forms of capital described on this site.

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 10:13am

    #46
    ao

    ao

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    we have a very prosperous society compared to most

    But unfortunately, prosperity isn't necessarily accompanied by wisdom or foresight and hence such things as PPE shortages.  Thankfully, in a society such as ours, there is an element that abounds in generosity and resilience.  We have two separate groups in our town alone that are vigorously sewing masks for the local hospital and, as I had mentioned previously, students and staff at the local university are busy fabricating certain pieces of protective gear on 3-D printers and by other means.   It's the prosperity of the society and the strong community spirit that facilitates these good folks coming to the rescue.  Rather than spending their emotional energies condemning the system. they rallied and did something to rectify the problem.  That's how a society is supposed to work.

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 3:07pm

    agitating prop

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    Two Women--to AO

    Two women

    Betty and Bobby both started working in the same small extended care facility in the 1990's. They enjoyed their work because of the homey atmosphere and genuine care and concern their employers showed for the elderly and the staff.

    When it came time for the owners to retire, they put it up to sale and Betty, who had just inherited some money from her own mother, was able to buy the facility.

    Bobby continued to work there, trusting her benefits and pension fund would give her security in her own old age.

    Meanwhile, Betty began to attend corporate seminars that taught her how to leverage the equity in her small facility so that she could acquire more. She had spunk and ambition, that one. Everybody sang her praises!

    This began an acquisition bonanza and soon Bette was one of the powerhouses in the extended care industry. She had learned how to do "community outreach" through advertizing, that played up the superficial attractiveness of each of her facilities. This along with other brochure glossy type charms lulled future clients and their families into a false sense of confidence.

    Meanwhile, Betty had cut staff, altered healthy menus and who was going to complain? Most of her 'clients' had advanced dementia. The staffing was cut back so radically that the main cause of death was actually starvation, as those who couldn't feed themselves were not fed by staff. The ratio was one staff member per 35 mentally disabled clients.

    Bobby was laid off during one of the waves of layoffs. Her pension fund was raided by Betty and now she is broke.

    There you go, AO. Two women.

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 3:15pm

    agitating prop

    agitating prop

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    agitating prop said:

    No AO,

    Society is not supposed to work that way. You pay taxes to governments who are supposed to act proactively and in an organized way to get out ahead of these kinds of problems and not leave it to citizens who may sicken and die themselves. Because you have a moron in power who delayed a quick response your country will reap a whirlwind of viral exposure while the conscientious toiling away in their basements trying to make up for that fact.

    How much do you want a bet that people like Bobby, who I described in my last post would be one of the conscientious ones who are struggling to help?

    She's not an investor, but boy do  people rely on her type in a crunch.

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 4:57pm

    Rajkumarijay

    Rajkumarijay

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    Old proverb - to ao

    ...not that I want to be on the receiving end of your acrimony since I don’t enjoy controversy....

    however I want to point out an old Native American proverb that appears to be relevant here...

    Never criticism a man or woman until you have walked a mile in his/her moccasins.

    by this I suggest that there are never two families alike that are comparable enough to compare their financial outcomes. The whole premise is moot from the start.

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 5:25pm

    #50

    AKGrannyWGrit

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    Agitating prop

    My sister-in-law is a nurse.  She worked at an adult day care center taking care of elderly, health challenged individuals.  The families of the elderly clients deeply relied on the center.

    Because the center was “for profit” the owners and administrators deemed that they were not making enough profit so the answer was - - close the doors.  Break even wasn’t acceptable.

    The families were left high and dry with little to no resources.  My sister-in-law said it was heartbreaking.

    Somehow, someway we need to get past profit and financial wealth as a barometer for success.

    AKGrannyWGrit

     

     

     

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 5:56pm

    ao

    ao

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    AP, it'd be nice to live in a perfect world

    Unfortunately, we live in an imperfect world with imperfect people comprising imperfect governments.  What kind of society would not step in and fill the gap where government left one?  That's why I live where I live in the community that has the people and society that it does that.  That's also why I also chose not to live other places where people expect government to do everything for them and then sit around twiddling their thumbs when it doesn't.

    By the way, my wife is the Bobby type but she would have stepped in, gathered documentation and evidence, and had the JCAHO raid the place and put Betty in jail before it ever came to the situation it came to.

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 6:02pm

    ao

    ao

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    Raj, the premise is not moot

    This was in my family.  The differences were obvious to everyone, even to the one who wound up living in poverty and later actually acknowledged and bemoaned her errors.  I know the circumstances well.  I wound up handling the estates of both parties.  I think I'm a lot closer to being in those moccasins than you who knows very little about the details.  No acrimony, just fact.  There's a formula for success and a formula for failure.  You can ignore it at your own peril.

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 6:12pm

    #53

    AKGrannyWGrit

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    Flashy Fishing Lures Catch Fish

    Big flashy lures on the end of a pole. They dance on the water waiting, waiting to catch the unwary beauty.

    Best not to fall for the dance.  Swim, swim, swim away so you can dance in the sun another day.

    AKGrannyWGrit

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 6:23pm

    #54
    ao

    ao

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    what a good society and a good member of that society does and doesn't do

    It takes care of its elderly.  It doesn't drop them off in nursing homes, never visiting them so no one outside even knows if they are being cared for, fed, or hydrated properly.  I was called in once as an outside consultant by a woman whose mother was in a nursing home.  The mother was going downhill in a way that daughter did not think should be occurring.  I was there to work on the mother's musculoskeletal problems but she was also slipping into dementia.  I noticed that every time she was given some water, she started to choke on it so then the attendant, being rightfully concerned about the mother chokinig, took the water away from her.  This happened repeatedly, both during a visit and then on a subsequent visit.  I realized that the mother was probably suffering from dehydration and we worked on her swallowing mechanism and retrained the staff how to properly and safely hydrate her.  Lo and behold the dehydration induced dementia cleared up away.  The daughter was there visiting her mother regularly and was pro-active unlike so many nowadays who are neither.

    Other folks though put their elderly in these pre-death warehouse facilities and then largely ignore them.  That isn't right.  When the time came that my mother could no longer live by herself, I started visiting and evaluating all the assisted living facilities in my area (not in my mother's area) because I wanted to be able to visit her regularly (something which my sister in her area would not do).  They were some excellent ones but I finally came to the conclusion that none of them could care for her like I could.  So we moved out of our master bedroom and wound up moving my mom in with us.  It was a joy and a blessing to be able to serve her the way she had served me for so many years in my childhood and youth.  I realize not everyone can do that but too many who can do that, don't.  They cast them aside like worthless husks.

    A good society protects and cares for its elderly, values its elderly, and cherishes the wisdom and experience that the elderly can contribute to society, if only we would listen.  But the more we turn these types of responsibilities over to government, the more we're going to see things like death panels crop up and other abuses.

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 6:33pm

    mntnhousepermi

    mntnhousepermi

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    I also think those choices do not depend on income !

    I am at very low, poverty level for my area income, and yet I paid off my house and do not hold debt while in this position !  I could also tell lots of sob stories of my early life, and while all of that does effect who we are, we do as adults get to make a choice of show we want to be.  given our backgrounds, it will not be perfect, but we should not identify as victims !

    It also would be obvious to any outside observers why I am not homeless, or living in someone elses converted garage unit, and bemoaning my fate vs someone else with similar story to tell.  And, no Agitating Prop, it is not due to my starting a business and screwing over employees, as I do not have a business and have been low income.

    It is hard sometimes to live within our means, but doing so, and choices we make will change our lot in life and our outcome !  There is, indeed, better way and choices to have success.  How I define success may even be different.  But, for me financial success is financial security.  That means having savings for a few months expenses, even if it took years to get to that, and it is only because my monthly expenses are very low.  Low bills, or, rather bills within your means.  I am not worried as much as many for this downturn, even though my income will likely be halved, and that will be something.  But it will be temporary.  What gives security ?  All the things on the prosper on the way down list, and these do not take income to do ! Start a garden, have extra food stored, build up to have some reserve cash ( my amount would be less than a months expenses for alot of people here, but for me can make it many months, maybe a year as it is enough to pay for one years property tax and insurance, what is important ? Shelter, food, people), know how to do things, do other people favors over the years ( social capitol, and even yesterday, on social media I offered an unprepared person yeast for baking -- social capitol )

    I was not scared when the stay at home measure took effect.  Yes, I did see how things were going, and I put in alot of potatoes in the garden.  Have to try and stay nimble to changing conditions.  I can see that I will have at least a temporary ( 2 months ? 6 months) drop in income.  Besides putting in the larger garden, I let one of my goats go to be a pet in another household, I am lowering expenses ( she is very happy there, I spent a month vetting the new place) . Anyway, I am secure in basics, so it will not be as big a deal for me, low income notwithstanding

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 6:54pm

    #56
    lunableu22

    lunableu22

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    Pre-death warehouses

    Not everyone can have their aging, ailing relatives move in with them.  There are medical conditions and circumstances that preclude that option, even if you have the space, time and money to do so.  How to prove a negative?  If said relative falls, they end up in hospital being poked for IVs and blood draws.  They are discharged home bruised.  They fall again before the bruises heal completely.  The EMTs show up.  Rinse and repeat.  They fall yet again.   EMTs show up again.   How do you prove that you are not performing elder abuse?  Those places are not ideal; some of them are better than others.  Some of them are a blessing for all involved.  YMMV

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 7:14pm

    agitating prop

    agitating prop

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    AO a good society discourages for profit when the customers are powerless

    A good society doesn't allow corporate for profit extended care facilities, with the idea that "competition" takes care of all problems in the corporate sector. This isn't about your experience, as laudable as it may be. It was about the experience of two women, one pro corporate ruthless individual who ended up wealthy, and one who ended up poor.

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 7:15pm

    #58
    ao

    ao

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    mntnhousepermi, wish i could give you more thumbs up

    Of course, you can always give yourself one, like some people around here without mentioning any names, lol.

    You, in my estimation, are a successful man.  You recognize that the life you live is heavily influenced by the choices you make and you chose accordingly.  You have found peace as a consequence of your choices and what can be more successful than that? On the pyramid of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, you strike me as a self-actualized individual, a worthy accomplishment and something that some of the  financially richest individuals never achieve.

    What's interesting to me is the paradox that, not infrequently, those who rail against the rich and success being measured financially are the very ones who ... secretly wish they were rich and themselves measure success financially while being conspicuously ignorant of more valid measures of success.  Their sanctimony is often fueled by envy. Yet because they lack self understanding and awareness, they may not even realize this.  Here's a good article to help folks like that.

    12 Tips to Improve Self-Awareness and Develop Your Potential

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 7:26pm

    ao

    ao

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    lunableu22, i acknowledged what you said in my post

    I realize that what was an option for me is not an option for everyone.  You are correct.  I was very fortunate.  But there are people in nursing homes and assisted care facilities who have living relatives and go days, weeks, and months without a visit.  That's not right.

    I visited facilities under the conditions of formal appointments.  I also visited them informally at off hours.  And I asked around ... a lot.  Luckily, I have a pretty diverse range of social contacts in the community.  You can find out a lot that way that isn't in the slick glossy brochures nor revealed when the polished PR or sales person shows you around and presents a carefully curated picture of the facility.  That's why I came to the decision I did.

    P.S.  Although it may entail some expense, if you are concerned about the legal implications of the matter you discussed, you can have the patient's physician prescribe formal vestibular testing to quantify the patient's balance.  I'm not sure how much Medicare covers this testing but it should cover at least some if it's prescribed by the physician.  Low scores will provide substantiation that the patient is likely falling rather than being physically abused.  Also, the pattern of bruises can give some information.

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 7:28pm

    ao

    ao

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    AP, so what are your recommendations

    How should such a facility be organized, funded, and managed?

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 7:44pm

    #61
    agitating prop

    agitating prop

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    back to the topic

    As the market hasn't hit bottom, now is likely not a good time to invest, if you have the money. And I apologize if I gave the impression that I think anybody trying to improve their situation a bit is a ruthless, money obsessed creep.

    But you have to ask yourself-- If we live on a finite planet, maybe the virus has just delivered a strong message. Investing is based on expansion and Mother Nature appears to be rebelling against that mindset. Maybe ethical funds are the way to go.

    Gold and silver seem to make sense but they are also environmentally toxic, so will that perhaps backfire? Is it part of the larger script written by the true hidden hand?

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 7:50pm

    davyd

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    The fundamental attribution error

    Psychology has long accepted the stylized fact that we attribute success to our skill and failure to bad luck

    but it’s probably the case that both are involved in all outcomes.

    i think Jonathan Haidt (I’m not 100% certain) identified correlation between belief in “just deserts” thinking and political orientation

     

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 7:56pm

    davyd

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    Promote the general welfare...

    Government should provide public goods

    We have a system that allows private companies to collect rents from public monopolies.  We probably have a future of neo-feudalism.  It’s bleak.  Or revolution. Which has many downsides.

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 7:56pm

    #64
    SafeinNH1952

    SafeinNH1952

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    40,000 dead -- Wuhan, China

    https://www.zerohedge.com/health/more-evidence-china-lying-number-urns-more-double-reported-coronavirus-deaths

     

     

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 8:28pm

    ao

    ao

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    davyd, we don't have a future of neo-feudalism

    It's here now and has been for some time.

    With regards to fundamental attribution error, I think it was Sam Goldwyn who said, "The harder I work, the luckier I get".  I don't think that's entirely correct.  I would amend that to say the harder and smarter I work, the luckier I get.

    A lot (but not all) of what people attribute to luck, however, can be attributed to such things as cultivating wisdom and tacit knowledge.  I don't know too many wise people who are unlucky but I do know many foolish people who are unlucky.  That being said, I have a former colleague and a friend who is a fine person who has made good life decisions throughout her entire life but, in recent years, has experienced some of the worst luck I've ever seen through absolutely no fault of her own.  That's scary but also, quite rare in my experience.  Most "bad luck" comes about from bad decisions.

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 8:38pm

    #66

    AKGrannyWGrit

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    Lets put ourselves in other peoples shoes. It’s not that hard, let “Peep” show you how.

     

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 8:53pm

    #67
    kunga

    kunga

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    Late, great Richard Russell

    Long time writer of Dow Theory newsletter.  At the end of his life , said that above all, the most valuable thing is peace of mind.

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 10:54pm

    #68
    dryam2000

    dryam2000

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    This thread literally makes me sick to my stomach

    Millions upon millions of people worldwide will be dying of this, from those living in the richest countries to the most remote tribes deep in the Amazon forest, and this thread has been hijacked about people bickering about their philosophical differences regarding finances assets & who has what?!!!!I

    If people have financial assets via retirement accounts or other, then it’s great PP is providing some guidance.  Btw, the game of financialization is going away if you ask me.  There will likely be helicopter money directly to people as well as companies which provides a monetary method of socialism without people realizing it.  Chris and Adam have long espoused that primary wealth is real wealth, and that one day there would be a crumbling of secondary and tertiary wealth.

    So, what if one does not have much in the way of financial assets currently?  Be your primary source of food.  Grow a garden.  In my neck of the woods the hardware stores are still delivering.  Buy seeds, soil, planters, books, etc.  A garden is probably the most profitable, secure, and most important investment anyone can make.  Same thing goes for chickens if one lives someplace that would allow it, or they could go into it with family or friends who might have a suitable location.  Learn how to kill squirrels via a slingshot, 0.22, etc.  Seriously.  Many lessons can be learned from the Great Depression.  People ate whatever was available.

    Having a job is not a God given right.  Times are going to be extremely tough in the future.  Few people are going to have jobs for a while.  The problem with America is that she is one the wealthiest countries on the planet from top to bottom, and the shock of going to second/third world status in such a short timeframe is not going to be a pretty sight. Don’t ever lose sight of the fact that there are many billions of people on this planet before all this happened who lived in condition that many would define as being “dirt poor”.   A poor person can adapt to most situations.  A wealthy person who loses that wealth tends to become a depressed, angry, self-wallowing, blaming malcontent.

    Seriously people, it’s time to come together, and help each other as much as possible.  Rich, poor, or indifferent we all facing an adversary unlike anything else we’ll ever see in our lifetimes.

    Lastly, PP presents a tremendous amount of topics.  If a topic isn’t going to help your situation or you don’t have helpful commentary regarding the topic, then I suggest you move about your way and not clutter up a thread for those who are interested in the topic and are looking for meaningful on-topic discussion..

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  • Sat, Mar 28, 2020 - 11:46pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

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    Come together.

    Dryam2000, you said,

    "Seriously people, it’s time to come together, and help each other as much as possible. Rich, poor, or indifferent we all facing an adversary unlike anything else we’ll ever see in our lifetimes."

    Amen! And thank you.

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 3:40am

    Linda T

    Linda T

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    Posts: 132

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    This thread literally makes me sick to my stomach

    dryam2000,

    I agree with you. It's being making me sick as well... The suffering, trauma, and tragedy unfolding right now and I think some people haven't integrated the magnitude to their core, to feel the heartbreak, the vulnerability, to their bones what is happening right now. Bubbles have popped all over the place and continue to be popped. Expectations for the present, the future, our way of life, supply chains have broken, and we will need to continue relocalizing like crazy, globalization has been slowly dying and this current black swan event will just help it along.

    Back in 2005-2006 when I read "The Long Emergency" by James Howard Kunstler, I "got" it and went into a funk for 6 weeks, but it helped me to understand so much of what had happened in the last 30-40 years, and what continues to happen... I then started to read many of his other books (both fiction and non-fiction), in addition to "Party's Over" and "Peak Everything" by Richard Heinberg and his other books too, "Twilight in the Desert" by Matthew Simmons, John Michael Greer's books, "Overshoot", etc. etc.  In order to be able to "invest", there has to be an excess of something to generate profit, and it's impossible to have infinite growth (profit enough to satisfy corporations and stockholders, and other types of investments) on a finite planet (I wish more people had heard of degrowth or steady-state economics and understand the need and imperative for it). Wealth and class inequality have been growing and growing, and divisions are causing quakes in the world around us. In order to be able to have profit and growth, the continual availability of energy and physical natural resources are required. The three "E"'s, energy, environment, and the economy, take one of those legs away, and the tripod collapses. Conventional oil used to have an EROEI (energy returned on energy invested) of 30:1 or 40:1, but it's way below that now.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_returned_on_energy_invested

    We've past the global peak of production of conventional oil too, we've already picked the low-hanging fruit of energy sources, and we've been scraping the bottom of the barrel using more and more unconventional oils.Yes, we need renewable energies, but they are dependent on fossil fuels for the mining, production, and transportation. Most people don't seem to take that into consideration.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconventional_oil

    Without the insane amount of fossil fuels we have become addicted to, combined with the lower EROEI's of unconventional oils and our collective assumption they will be there forever, which they won't, for all of our transportation needs, electricity, food production, flying airplanes, cruise ships, etc. and to have growth too? Nope. Nada. Zip. Not going to happen. The planet can't sustain that, and several of the planetary boundaries have already tipped...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconventional_oil

    Our lifestyles will need to be redesigned, expectations and carbon footprints lowered. The scale and scope of our predicament is breathtaking, and we don't have the money, energy, nor resources (and will apparently) to completely change or build new infrastructures. We seem to want to keep racing to that cliff rather than using the brakes to buy some time. I have read this expression many times "we get to either deal with reality or reality will deal with us".

    I can think of a couple of people that might not like this post, and the message, but this thread (I know, the title is a tipoff) has had so much propaganda in it.

    Linda

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 4:51am

    timeandtide

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    Yagasjai - Best comment I have read on this website

    I have no answer to this comment except that we should all be asking ourselves the same questions. Such a change can only come from within individuals by individual action setting an example to others.

    It should not be forgotten that evolution has come about because of competition but it is also arguable that genetic evolution for the human species is now a minor factor compared to cultural evolution. I am no utopian but I do think it should not be outside our ability to find a course that allows for competition (because it is effective) but, like in the natural world, it allows for a large degree of redundancy. That means scaling down rather than scaling up. Monopolies or near monopolies might be efficient and do facilitate constant cost-cutting but are inherently unsafe because there is no redundancy. You only have to look at the ridiculously narrow supply chains to realise that cheap products which exploit cheap labour come at high cost when the wheels fall off the just-in-time conveyor belt. Not to mention the loss of jobs through off-shoring. For all his faults, President Trump put his finger on this before anyone else but I am not entirely convinced that he did it for the right reasons.

    The silver lining in the current corona cloud will, I hope, be a worldwide re-assessment of the way we do things. I doubt we will get it right in one go but over several decades and after several more disasters.

    I absolutely agree with your mild criticism of this website. Prosperity surely has a wider meaning than just net monetary wealth. It certainly does for Granny and others.

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  • Sun, Mar 29, 2020 - 9:57am

    #72
    Hladini

    Hladini

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    Some Philosophy....

    Hello Everyone!  It's interesting to read the comments section - especially with all the new members.   A little philosophy might help put things in perspective.  The same way Chris' reporting has imparted material knowledge on how to manage the pandemic,  it's really helpful to have some higher/spiritual/philosophical knowledge on how to manage the fallout.  So how do all of us end up in such different situations and why is this so unfair?

    First, let's keep things in perspective.  Everything is temporary.  According to the Indian Holy Scripture, The Shrimad-Bagavatam, Lord Brahma is the first created being in our Universe.  His one 12 hour day is equal to 8,600,000 of our human years.  If you do the math,  that means our life time is way shorter than a mayfly's.  I think the Bible described the length of this lifetime as a "twinkling of an eye."  Purport:  Don't worry folks, it's almost over, and fortunes can turn on a dime.

    Second, it does not matter how little or how much money we have, we will all leave our body and accumulated wealth or debts at the time of death.  "For one who takes birth, death is certain.  And for one who dies, birth is certain."  See Bhagavad Gita As it Is.

    Third, we all are subject to the laws of Karma: for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, whether you're a beggar on the street or the Fed Chair, and if you think the markets are complicated, check out Karma.

    During our lifetimes, it does not matter how much or how little money we have, we will ALL be on the Sukha-Dukha see-saw.  Happiness-distress, happiness-distress, happiness-distress.  That's why there is no enjoyment in the material world, you cannot enjoy if suffering is right around the corner.  All we have is the illusion of enjoyment.  The material world is described as a place where one living entity is food for another (mrtalokhas or planets of death).  In such a place, how can there be enjoyment?

    In regard to our current events, getting whacked by the system per the fake money,  manufactured markets, megamonopolies, corrupt officials, poor/no leadership is the "civilized" way of getting preyed upon! It could be a lot worse!

    Fourth,  we are all embodied souls with the four built-in defects, and an insatiable lust for profit, adoration and distinction.  The four built-in defects are: imperfect senses,  propensity to cheat, prone to commit mistakes and subject to illusion.  We are each a unique combination of the 8 material elements and the three modes of material nature: goodness, passion and ignorance.  EACH of us has a unique personality, path, and life lessons!  Which explains how each of us are in such unique circumstances in the same pandemic.

    Fifth, as embodied souls we have been cycling through the cycle of birth and death since time immemorial, not eternity, but a very long time.  This is not our first rodeo. Now that we have reached the human form of life, what are we going to do with it?

    Imagine yourself the center of a five mile radius.  How many living entities other than humans live in that five mile radius?  How many ants, roaches, mosquitoes, gnats, worms, flies, larvae, beetles, bees/wasps, birds, frogs, dragon flies......are in that same 5 mile radius? Can't count em, right?  Now how many humans are in that 5 mile radius?

    The purport of this exercise?  The Human Form is extremely rare and should not be wasted on the same activities that lower species are engaged in:  eating, sleeping, mating and defending.  Only in the human form can we aspire for higher/spiritual/transcendental knowledge.

    If all we are doing is eating, sleeping, mating and defending, then we are really no better than the animals and other living entities.  Only in the human form of life can we ask the big questions.  Who am I?  Why am I here?  Where am I going and how do I get there?  Where did I come from?

    It's not so easy to get out of the cycle of birth and death, but that's what human life is meant for........... and there are no guarantees of a human form the next cycle around.

    Of course we have to do our duties, which include taking care of our families, securing our finances, going to work, cleaning, cooking and all the other mundane activities to keep body and soul together, but it's not the goal.  The goal is to finally break free from the cycle of birth and death and all the misery that goes along with life in the material world.

    My authority for spiritual knowledge is His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.  He translated the Bhagavada-Gita As It Is, the Srimad Bhagavatam, Nectar of Devotion, Nectar of Instruction, and other ancient spiritual texts from Sanskrit to English and ignited the Hare Krsna explosion shortly after his arrival in the US in 1965.

    At the age of 70, he stepped onto American shores with a trunk full of poorly produced and edited books and 7 rupees in his pocket.  Although almost everyone has heard of the Hare Krsna's, almost no one has heard of its founder, Srila Prabhupada - a true testament to his humility.

    37 years later, I have yet to find a more sound philosophy or methodology to strive for and obtain real inner peace.  However, my life is far from perfect.  My personal finances mirror last week's markets, and have since the 2008 crash.  I have NEVER financially recovered.  I have so much debt, it might as well be the trillions the US gov is in for.  Trust me, it's a big black cloud constantly over my head!  And it would not be thus, but for the fact that I became an attorney!  Go figure.

    But thanks to this site,  I have fruit trees, I have saved in other than fiat currency,  I learned how to grow food - lot's of food, I've learned how to can, I've learned how to save seeds, I am working in/with community, I learned how to take care of my soil, I diversified my income.

    And thanks to His Divine Grace, I pray and serve ............. a lot.

     

     

     

     

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  • Mon, Mar 30, 2020 - 8:10pm

    Barbara

    Barbara

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    Posts: 169

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    Equity doesn't imply equal outcome

    Several people ask a reasonable question:  why are outcomes so different?  We do know the answer.  Unfortunately, it's a complex system of interrelated life conditions that influence the outcome and often our political persuasion and our own history cause us to fixate on only one factor.  Let's consider reality of life in the US.  What are the primary drivers of where a person ends up?

    1. An individual's nature: intelligence, talents, "grit" and "gumption" [as my granny would have said], ability to stick the course when things get hard, ability to bail out of a bad situation quickly - in short the innate capacity a person is born with. Unfortunately, we're not all equal.
    2. An individual's personal nurture:  several people have said it in this thread - a caring family in a caring community counts for a lot.  So does a good example.  My granny used to say, life is hard-so what, you never give up.  Sometimes I would have been better to listen to the late Kenny Rogers - Know when to walk away: know when to run.  If we were lucky, we had good role models around us that fit both our personalities and our innate abilities.  People seek out environments that feel compatible to them.  Some are luck enough to find them.  Women, people of color, and intelligent ambitious people from the lower classes often have trouble finding compatible people around them.  Granny's NOT wrong about bias; people suffer if they don't look and sound like the stereotype of what they want to become.
    3. A social structure that never gets it quite right:  with the Renaissance and the rise of capitalism, the idea grew that merit, not inherited position and granddad's wealth, should determine a much greater part of the outcome.  Unfortunately, that doesn't work well when so many people came out of the feudal system with wealth disparities and a social view that somehow people deserved their lot in life.  After WW2, the middle class surged and women and people of color were allowed to demonstrate their own merit.  Then the war of worldviews started with the "greed is good" of the Wall Street gamblers conflicting with the "everybody should be guaranteed the same outcome" of the politically correct left.
      Well, guess what - they're both wrong.
      Most of us don't believe that merit encompasses being a better thief or a more successful con artist or a Wall Street stock manipulator.  We want people to be rewarded for producing something of value to lots of main street people, not for creating bubbles and destroying resources our grandchildren will need.
      And most of us would admit that we don't have the resources to ensure equal outcome -- as Ayn Rand pointed out, Atlas will Shrug.  If you have less capacity, you probably won't be as materially comfortable as those with more capacity.
      And we all realize that some people are born into situations where their circumstances make it very hard to develop their true potential: unfit parents, poor schools, social media propaganda all make it hard for many people to to thrive.  And it's also true that being born to the elites gives people a big head start through no merit of their own.  Their parent's money and their parent's influential friends open doors that the lower 50 percent have slammed in their faces.

    So step back and look at the complex interactions that got us to where we are today.  I can work remotely at a relatively high paying job compared to hourly minimum wage workers, and am grossly underpaid compared to CEOs and brokers.  Half the low wage hourly workers have been laid off and the others are struggling not to get sick when forced to leave home or starve.  The divide widens.  Granny is right, renters and small businesses aren't' getting much of a break - Loans and delays on eviction!  Meanwhile airline executives get a bail out.
    Now some of that, as several have argued, is due to poor life choices, particularly people who exist on junk food and refuse to live within their means.  But, media, the food industry and retail do push people towards those poor decisions.  Not many of us around any more who were raised by depression era parents who taught common sense frugality.

    So we're a group where some of us have assets (not all due to their own efforts and merit) and some are like the average mainstreet American who has no assets, in many cases due as much to fallout from the last two bubbles as from their own mismanagement.

    Life isn't always fair and some of us are better at backup plans and picking ourselves up than others.  On the other hand, there is structural unfairness that hard work, smarts and merit doesn't ever fully overcome.

    As functional adults, we need to hold these paradoxes in mind as we deal with such a complex system.

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  • Tue, Mar 31, 2020 - 7:46am

    #74
    learningtoprepare

    learningtoprepare

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 02 2013

    Posts: 10

    The allegory and the link

    Thank you so much for your post of the allegory of the snake and the serpent as well as the link underneath. I'm not good with charts, but the narrative is most instructive, and dare I say all too true.

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  • Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 1:48pm

    #75
    appullodi

    appullodi

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jun 20 2015

    Posts: 6

    1+

    New Harbor works with Americans, not Canadians. So what do I do?

    I had a phone call with New Harbor, but they can only work with Canadians if they have property in the US.  I'm wondering if Peak Prosperity has any recommendations on who I could work with as a Canadian?

    Basically, I share many of the concerns of the Peak Prosperity perspective and community, but I don't consider myself knowledgeable enough to make these financial decisions without some more support.  So I'm wondering who I could look to for that, perhaps something similar to New Harbor, but operating in Canada.  Please let me know.

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  • Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 2:35pm

    Ann

    Ann

    Status: Member

    Joined: Nov 30 2011

    Posts: 4

    2+

    Canadian financial advice

    yes, I also am interested in Canadian financial advisors who share the peak prosperity world view.  any information is appreciated.

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