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    Making The World A More Dangerous Place

    US foreign policy at work
    by Chris Martenson

    Saturday, November 7, 2015, 1:06 AM

Without any doubt, the Middle East has been a very long-simmering region of violent religious and tribal enmity.

In that regard, perhaps today is no different than 1,000 years ago. But given the importance of the remaining oil in the Middle East to the next 20 years of global economic health, the violence and chaos seen there recently is hugely important to the entire world.

But it’s also equally without doubt that the US and NATO are inflaming the situation by provoking conflicts and supplying military weapons and training to various extremist groups — therefore deserving much of the blame for the current tensions, despair and mayhem happening in Iraq, Syria, Yemen, and Libya.

Forget anything you might read about “brutal dictators” that need to go or the importance of “democracy” to the region. That's dumbed-down pablum for the masses and has literally nothing to do with the motivations of the (clinically insane) external power brokers actually driving the events on the ground and crafting the narrative that is faithfully scribed and re-told by the media. In fact, disturbingly often, the scribed narrative is exactly opposite of the truth.

On The Path To War

If a wider war breaks out between the US/NATO and either Russia and/or China, then massive systemic shocks will result to the economy, oil prices, and the global financial system.

Some comfort themselves with the belief that such a war would not be in the interest of the true powers that now drive the politics of most countries. Others worry that chaotic systems and events sometimes have a life of their own, regardless of what 'the powers that be' may want. We have entered such a time.

While predicting the outbreak of war is not my intent here, I do want you to be appraised of the risks. We all should note that the elevated tensions across the globe are as good a reason as any to get our houses in order. As we reinforce often here at Peak Prosperity: when it comes to such preparations, we vastly prefer to be an entire year early than a single day late.

Good planning begins with good intelligence. But sadly, if you feel relatively well-informed because you read a lot of newspapers or watch a lot of news, you may be among the most misinformed of them all.

Certainly, the events in the Middle East over the past decade have been almost impossible to analyze or understand from a logical perspective.

But the pattern has been clear enough: a rough justification of the need for military force is raised by the US adminstration and, within weeks, money and war material are mobilized to do exactly that. Libya, Iraq, and Syria are recent examples of such.

However, none of this is any surprise to those paying attention. General Wesley Clark warned about the US’s military objectives in the Middle East back in 2007 in an interview with Democracy Now!. It's difficult to read this transcript without concluding that the US was going to manufacture whatever justifications it needed in order to carry out a larger strategy that, inexplicably to rational observers, seemed intent on inflaming and toppling governments across the Middle East — a monstrous war crime by any historical standard:

About ten days after 9/11, I went through the Pentagon and I saw Secretary Rumsfeld and Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz. I went downstairs just to say hello to some of the people on the Joint Staff who used to work for me, and one of the generals called me in. He said, “Sir, you’ve got to come in and talk to me a second.” I said, “Well, you’re too busy.” He said, “No, no.” He says, “We’ve made the decision we’re going to war with Iraq.”

This was on or about the 20th of September. I said, “We’re going to war with Iraq? Why?” He said, “I don’t know.” He said, “I guess they don’t know what else to do.” So I said, “Well, did they find some information connecting Saddam to al-Qaeda?” He said, “No, no.” He says, “There’s nothing new that way. They just made the decision to go to war with Iraq.” He said, “I guess it’s like we don’t know what to do about terrorists, but we’ve got a good military and we can take down governments.” And he said, “I guess if the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem has to look like a nail.”

So I came back to see him a few weeks later, and by that time we were bombing in Afghanistan. I said, “Are we still going to war with Iraq?” And he said, “Oh, it’s worse than that.” He reached over on his desk. He picked up a piece of paper. And he said, “I just got this down from upstairs” — meaning the Secretary of Defense’s office — “today.” And he said, “This is a memo that describes how we’re going to take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran.” I said, “Is it classified?” He said, “Yes, sir.” I said, “Well, don’t show it to me.” And I saw him a year or so ago, and I said, “You remember that?” He said, “Sir, I didn’t show you that memo! I didn’t show it to you!”

(Source)

Seven countries in five years. 

Poking The Bear – Part IV

Actually, I don’t know how many times the US has poked the bear (Russia) over the past two years, so I thought I’d use “Part IV” to get the point across.  It might be a much higher number.

First there was Ukraine, where the US and other western parties conspired to overthrow the sitting elected government and putting in place the current crop of ultra-nationalist thugs and Nazi sympathizers that now infest the halls of power in Kiev. The situation there is an unfortunate mess, one the West fomented.

Naturally the West was none too pleased when Russia, quite predictably, responded and sought to protect the roughly 8 million Russian speaking citizens living in eastern Ukraine with military support. Money and military aid and the ubiquitous US “advisors” flooded in to help the Kiev militarily dominate eastern Ukraine – ironic, as a few of Ukraine's current leaders were caught on tape saying they’d prefer to nuke the region in an ethnic cleansing.

Then, when the people of Crimea voted to rejoin Russia (perhaps you would, too, if your "elected" leaders dreamed of nuking you), the US reacted as if this were some kind of foul play. That's a strange sort of needle to thread for a country that prides itself of on “spreading democracy” (even by force, if necessary). You’d think that people voting and exercising their free rights would top of the list of acceptable things to the US — but unless the election outcome is exactly in alignment with US wishes, that’s just not the case.

Similarly, an almost comical (were it not so serious) attempt to malign Russia was made by the US State Department this week. In the aftermath of the US’s own bombing of the Afghan hospital in Kunduz, this charge was leveled against Russia:

U.S. believes Russian bombing in Syria hit hospital: State Department

Oct 29, 2015

The United States has "operational information" that leads U.S. officials to believe Russian military aircraft hit a hospital while carrying out bombing raids in Syria, the State Department said on Thursday.

Since the start of the Russian bombing campaign on Sept. 30, various reports from media and civilian groups have charged that Russian warplanes have hit hospitals with their air strikes.

Asked at a briefing whether the United States had evidence that Russian bombing had hit Syrian hospitals, State Department spokesman John Kirby said, "Yes, we've seen some information that would lead us to believe that Russian military aircraft did hit a hospital.

"We have seen some press reporting to that end, we have seen some Syrian civil society groups say that," Kirby said.

"I would tell you that we have other operational information that leads us to believe that Russian targeting has not only not been focused on ISIL (Islamic State) but has, in fact, caused collateral damage and some civilian casualties, to include some civil infrastructure."

(Source)

Um…. “some press reporting” and “other operational information?” Good grief, that’s lame. Is that all the State Department has?  How about some pictures? Ballistics evidence? Satellite photos? Anything??

Watching this RTTV reporter trying to get something credible out of a State Department spokesperson on the matter is simply cringe-worthy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEhv6J0gFHo

The video is also notable for the arrogance on display. Assertions are useless without evidence, and in this age of satellites and drones, evidence of a destroyed hospital should be remarkably easy to come by. Yet not only did the State Department not share any such evidence, it went on to further claim that Russia had been targeting civilian infrastructure, which was another awkward charge for to lob given the news of the week prior:

Warplanes of US-led alliance attack power plant in Aleppo

Oct 18, 2015

A military source told SANA that warplanes of the Washington alliance violated Syrian airspace and attacked civilian infrastructure in Mare’a, Tal Sha’er, and al-Bab in Aleppo countryside on Sunday.

The source added that the warplanes attacked the biggest electric power plant that feeds Aleppo city, which resulted in cutting off power from most neighborhoods in Aleppo city.

This transgression comes only 8 days after two F-16 warplanes belonging to the alliance targeted two power plants in al-Radwaniye area east of Aleppo city, cutting off power from the area.

(Source)

I’ve seen this information presented in various sources and nobody has denied it yet. But neither have I seen pictures, so perhaps this is disinformation too…though Putin is on record as saying "On Sunday, the American aviation bombed out an electrical power plant and a transformer in Aleppo. Why have they done this? Whom have they punished there? What’s the point? Nobody knows,"

Given that charge, you’d think at least a denial from the US was in order. But none has been made. If the allegation is true, though, then it fits a larger pattern of the US criticizing other countries for doing the very same things it does.

Even more seriously, back in June the US rattled its sabers by announcing this:

U.S. Is Poised to Put Heavy Weaponry in Eastern Europe

Jun 13, 2105

RIGA, Latvia — In a significant move to deter possible Russian aggression in Europe, the Pentagon is poised to store battle tanks, infantry fighting vehicles and other heavy weapons for as many as 5,000 American troops in several Baltic and Eastern European countries, American and allied officials say.

The proposal, if approved, would represent the first time since the end of the Cold War that the United States has stationed heavy military equipment in the newer NATO member nations in Eastern Europe that had once been part of the Soviet sphere of influence. Russia’s annexation of Crimea and the war in eastern Ukraine have caused alarm and prompted new military planning in NATO capitals.

(Source)

These moves are indicative of worsening relations with Russia. They show an over-reliance on military options and a woeful lack of diplomatic outreach, at least any that are being reported in the news.  Of course, the risk of all this being interpreted by Russia as 'overtly hostile' is pretty much 100%.

“The Enemy Of My Enemy Is My Friend”

If you are having similarly hard time trying to understand the US’s policy in the Middle East, you're not alone. The shifting alliances in play there are really hard to keep track of.

Turkey has been aiding the so-called Syrian rebels (more on those rebels in a minute) but maintaining its long-standing hatred of the Kurdish people.  The US has been arming the Kurds and Syrian rebels while maintaining a mutual relationship with Turkey. 

Iraq has been struggling with ISIS and accepting help from Iran to deal with them. This puts the US and Iran on the same side of the battle, if you believe that the US is actually trying to stop ISIS rather than covertly helping it. Why would it possibly help ISIS? Because ISIS is battling Assad’s government in Syria.

Crazy, huh?

Now, let’s talk about those so-called “Syrian rebels.”   The term "rebels" implies that these are Syrians fighting their own government. That’s significantly untrue. Consider this:

20,000 Foreign Fighters Flock to Syria, Iraq to Join Terrorists

Feb 10, 2015

WASHINGTON — Foreign fighters are streaming into Syria and Iraq in unprecedented numbers to join the Islamic State or Iraq and Syria (ISIS) or other extremist groups, including at least 3,400 from Western nations among 20,000 from around the world, U.S. intelligence officials say in an updated estimate of a top terrorism concern.

Nick Rasmussen, chief of the National Counterterrorism Center, said the rate of foreign fighter travel to Syria is without precedent, far exceeding the rate of foreigners who went to wage jihad in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Yemen or Somalia at any other point in the past 20 years.

(Source)

There are dozens of reports indicating that the US, through the CIA and other outfits, has been responsible for a big part of both recruiting and training these foreign fighters, who draw from such nations as Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Chechnya and Qatar (among many others). 

In short, anyone and everyone who could be used to topple the government of Syria is being drafted.

I knew how ridiculous the claim of “Syrian rebels” was when I saw this picture showing the prominent ISIS leader Shishani, a well-known Chechen who was reportedly trained and backed by the US while in Chechnya.  

(Source)

But sharp eyes will also easily pick out the fact that he’s surrounded by people clearly not of Syrian origin. In fact, it looks more like a UN diversity conference than a Syrian rebel group.

For the sake of appropriate context, imagine if China were funding “rebels” to attack and fight inside the US, and that these “rebels” were sourced from Mexico, Nicaragua, Argentina, and Peru. 

These images and reports clearly show the pattern in play: the US and Turkey have been funneling vast amounts of arms, money and training to so-called opposition groups that, in many cases, consist of mercenaries and jihadists from a very wide range of different countries. Therefore, the US has directly supported and incubated some of the most brutal terror organization on the face of the planet — a list including ISIS and the Al Nusra front, both of which are well-documented for having committed horrible civilian atrocities.

That this happened was not exactly news to those inside the beltway. A secret 2012 Pentagon report, since uncovered, detailed exactly this dynamic and predicted the rise of ISIS:

Pentagon report predicted West’s support for Islamist rebels would create ISIS

May 22, 2105

A declassified secret US government document [a US Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) document then classified as “secret,” dated 12th August 2012] obtained by the conservative public interest law firm, Judicial Watch, shows that Western governments deliberately allied with al-Qaeda and other Islamist extremist groups to topple Syrian dictator Bashir al-Assad.

The document reveals that in coordination with the Gulf states and Turkey, the West intentionally sponsored violent Islamist groups to destabilize Assad, and that these “supporting powers” desired the emergence of a “Salafist Principality” in Syria to “isolate the Syrian regime.”

According to the newly declassified US document, the Pentagon foresaw the likely rise of the ‘Islamic State’ as a direct consequence of this strategy, and warned that it could destabilize Iraq.

The 7-page DIA document states that al-Qaeda in Iraq (AQI), the precursor to the ‘Islamic State in Iraq,’ (ISI) which became the ‘Islamic State in Iraq and Syria,’ “supported the Syrian opposition from the beginning, both ideologically and through the media.”

The formerly secret Pentagon report notes that the “rise of the insurgency in Syria” has increasingly taken a “sectarian direction,” attracting diverse support from Sunni “religious and tribal powers” across the region.

(Source)

Well, of course the Defense department knew that arming and funding violent jihadists was going to lead to some crazy sectarian unpleasantness.  How could they not? 14 years in Afghanistan and Iraq taught them plenty about the region and its sectarian dynamics.

But make no mistake: the US worked hard to attract regional jihadists to Syria to fight their war for them.  That was not an oddity to be curiously noted, but a feature of the program. Why? Because there was not enough legitimate internal Syrian opposition to Assad to get the job done. An angry mob had to be recruited.

Said another way: Syria’s bloody civil unrest is not entirely the result of a natural social uprising, but was fostered with a great deal of external meddling.

Why This Is Worth Our Full Attention

Tensions are as high as they’ve been in decades. Neo-con hotheads with a track record of shooting first and not caring to ask questions later are still driving US foreign policy. Russia is signaling that it has had enough of American intervention that destabilizes volatile parts of the world.  China is flexing its muscles as well.

This is all happening while global economic system is not nearly as robust as advertised. And history shows that nations always react more aggressively during leaner times.

With so many sensitive flash points that the West has its fingers in these days, the risk of one or more of them erupting into a full-scale war between the major world powers is not dismissible. And given the huge cost should that come to pass, it makes all the sense in the world to take precautionary measures in advance.

In Part 2: How Things May Well Get Ugly Quickly we zero in on the largest risks to monitor and the likely range of forms of retribution the US could face (from financial and cyber war to a full-blown shooting war) should the situation worsen.

We're not trying to drum up fears that war is imminent. But what we are saying is that the risk is substantial enough, and the potential cost high enough, that it's worth making some pre-cautionary preparations at this time. 

Click here to read Part 2 of this report (free executive summary, enrollment required for full access)

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489 Comments

  • Sat, Nov 07, 2015 - 7:03am

    #1
    aball1035

    aball1035

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Dec 19 2014

    Posts: 10

    Why attack?

    Maybe I missed it, but with the "seven countries in five years", why attack in the first place? What is the US trying to accomplish by meddling with the Middle East's affairs?

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  • Sat, Nov 07, 2015 - 8:51am

    Reply to #1

    Bankers Slave

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jul 26 2012

    Posts: 513

    Megalomania type ambition.

    PNAC- Project for a New American Century. Closely followed by the new Pearl Harbour.

    The GOD complex. Guns oil and drugs keeps the criminals in power in power!

    The USA is just the attack dog corporation doing the work of the global power elite who have no loyalty to any country, just themselves and the honor amongst thieves crowd!

    Its world domination using violence coercion and lots of debt, mainly controlled by the unscrupulous banksters and their politician lackeys. 

    A New World Order, and you better not get in their way!

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  • Sat, Nov 07, 2015 - 10:59am

    #2

    KennethPollinger

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Sep 22 2010

    Posts: 616

    Griffin: The Creature from Jekyll Island

    Chp. 12  Sink the Lusitania.   Spells it all out.  Same thing, once again.  The USA has it all down pat!!

    Wars DISTRACT and bring us out of depressions/recessions, and feed the "Military-Industrial Complex." Besides the planet has a population problem and this is a good way to reduce this problem. And OIL, Baby, OIL, is the indispensable key. 

    Why not just take over the major oil countries?  But then there is the population problem.  So, we get two for the price of one!!  Besides, Germany/Europe NEEDS young cheap labor to take care of their expanding elders.

    It all makes good sense, from the Elite Perspective, no?  Heck, even Bush Sr. berates his Jr son!!!  Still can't figure out why the Sr put out his book now–unless he wants to save Jeb from a really tough and dangerous job.

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  • Sat, Nov 07, 2015 - 12:43pm

    #3

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    War is a racket

    War is a Racket by Major General Smedley Bulter

    [quote]And let us not forget the bankers who financed the great war. If anyone had the cream of the profits it was the bankers. Being partnerships rather than incorporated organizations, they do not have to report to stockholders. And their profits were as secret as they were immense. How the bankers made their millions and their billions I do not know, because those little secrets never become public — even before a Senate investigatory body.[/quote]

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  • Sat, Nov 07, 2015 - 6:50pm

    Reply to #2

    Bankers Slave

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jul 26 2012

    Posts: 513

    Bush... did you really mean "lying piece of garbage!"

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  • Sun, Nov 08, 2015 - 6:09pm

    #4

    sand_puppy

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 1879

    Shattering the Matrix: War is Not Normal or Decent or Smart

    I have seen this theme come by several times in recent weeks–that a world war is "normal,"  "expected,"  "inevitable," "only a mater of time" and "just how things are."  Since "we know it is going to happen" the only pertinent questions is what technologies should be use to wage this war to achieve victory in a nuclear exchange.

    This assumption is insanity and needs to be rejected loudly and clearly.  We must break up this "general consensus" by clearly saying "Absolutely Not!"

    Paul Craig Roberts puts up a guest post a few days ago:

    The West Is So Lost In The Matrix That Only Socialists Can Raise The Real Issues

    Washington prepares for World War III
    5 November 2015

    The US military-intelligence complex is engaged in systematic preparations for World War III. As far as the Pentagon is concerned, a military conflict with China and/or Russia is inevitable, and this prospect has become the driving force of its tactical and strategic planning.  Three congressional hearings Tuesday […focusing on] 1) cyberwarfare… 2) deployment of the fleet of aircraft carriers, and…  3) modernization of US nuclear weapons.

    None of the hearings discussed the broader implications of the US preparations for war, or what a major war between nuclear-armed powers would mean for the survival of the human race, and even of life on our planet. On the contrary, the hearings were examples of what might be called the routinization of World War III. A US war with China and/or Russia was taken as given, and the testimony of witnesses and questions from senators and representatives, Democrats and Republicans alike, concerned the best methods for prevailing in such a conflict.

    The Pentagon recently published a document on "The Laws of War."  The World Socialist Website writer, Tom Carter, summarizes his impression of the document.

    The new US Department of Defense Law of War Manual is essentially a guidebook for violating international and domestic law and committing war crimes. The 1,165-page document, dated June 2015 and recently made available online, is not a statement of existing law as much as a compendium of what the Pentagon wishes the law to be.

    According to the manual, the “law of war” (i.e., the law of war according to the Pentagon) supersedes international human rights treaties as well as the US Constitution.

    The manual authorizes the killing of civilians during armed conflict and establishes a framework for mass military detentions.  Journalists, according to the manual, can be censored and punished as spies on the say-so of military officials. The manual freely discusses the use of nuclear weapons, and it does not prohibit napalm, depleted uranium munitions, cluster bombs or other indiscriminate weapons.

    The manual might have more properly been titled A Manifesto for Total War and Military Dictatorship.

    Last night in LA, air traffic was re-routed around LAX airport and a ballistic missile was fired from just off the CA coast from a nuclear submarine.  It was reported as visible throughout southern CA and even AZ and NV.

    Psychopathology of Killing to Steal and Dominate

    At the individual level, everyone knows that shooting someone to steal his wallet is deeply immoral.  In fact, murder committed in the process of armed robbery is an example used to illustrate sociopathic behavior.  This violates the morality of our Judeo-Christian society, domestic law and the universal understanding of what "decent human behavior" is.  

    Yet this psychopathology is somehow "normal" in the course of the affairs of nations!   We are DEEP IN THE MATRIX with the acceptance of this belief!

    Tom asked:  Where is the Anti-War Movement. 

    It is us.  We must disrupt this process of building a "consensus for the acceptance of the upcoming nuclear war" so that people who do not critically think for themselves will not be lead into this. We must say clearly and publicly:

    Hell No.

    World War is not normal.

    War is criminal.

    We will NOT participate in a nuclear exchange.

    We have the power to disrupt the "mind field" where beliefs come to be commonly accepted by the masses as "true."

     

     

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  • Mon, Nov 09, 2015 - 2:48pm

    #5

    LogansRun

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Mar 18 2009

    Posts: 304

    Who benefits?

    Who has benefited the most through the turmoil wrought by the NATO countries in the ME over the past 20+ years?  Obviously the US Military Industries.  But really, WHO (State) has benefited the most…..?…..

    ISRAEL

    Who is the head of the BIS as well as the FED?  What culture/race are they?

    Do your own research.  Come to your own conclusions.  But remember, there are no coincidences in the world of the elite.

     

     

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  • Mon, Nov 09, 2015 - 4:05pm

    Reply to #5

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Cuidado con este

    [quote=LogansRun]

    Who has benefited the most through the turmoil wrought by the NATO countries in the ME over the past 20+ years?  Obviously the US Military Industries.  But really, WHO (State) has benefited the most…..?…..

    ISRAEL

    Who is the head of the BIS as well as the FED?  What culture/race are they?

    Do your own research.  Come to your own conclusions.  But remember, there are no coincidences in the world of the elite.

    [/quote]

    My only comment would be to be careful in delineating between the People of Israel and the State of Israel. I suspect that the People of Israel in general share a different "perspective" that a certain portion of Israeli leadership. If any of this is sounding familiar to you here in the US… 

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  • Mon, Nov 09, 2015 - 4:16pm

    #6

    sand_puppy

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 1879

    Drone Strike Karma Can Be a B*tch

    A very sharp friend remarked that she suspects drone strike karma will come back to haunt her grand children.  Someday, the next global power will be shooting missiles into American weddings and school picnics.

    The USA altered international law with the GWOT in several fundamental ways:

    1.  Dropping bombs and shooting missiles into other sovereign nations is OK.

    2.  No need to declare war before bombing another country as

    • the entire earth is now "the battlefield,"
    • there is no start or stop date for this war, and
    • every human being is an enemy suspect.

    3.  There is no need to restrict warfare to defense only (the historical criteria for a "moral war.")  An offensive attack is a "preemptive defense."

    4.  There is no intention of ever ending this war.  It is intended as a permanent, open ended approach to international relations.  The USA will never "defeat terrorism," declare victory and cease its war.  (In fact, there is no way to escape the impression that the MIC is actively working to create enemies by indiscriminate civilian massacres.)

    A single executive can now conduct warfare without congress declaring war.

    Once a person knows, absolutely without a doubt, that the seminal event of this global war on terror was deliberately created, we can only conclude that descending the world into permanent warfare was the intention. 

    I believe that there is a powerful group that wants to take the world to war. I surmise that this group feels that it can "win" in a setting of global war in a way that it could not should the rules of civilization remain intact.

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  • Mon, Nov 09, 2015 - 4:38pm

    Reply to #6

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Karma

    [quote=sand_puppy]

    I believe that there is a powerful group that wants to take the world to war. I surmise that this group feels that it can "win" in a setting of global war in a way that it could not should the rules of civilization remain intact.

     

    [/quote]

    What on earth would possibly give you that idea?

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  • Mon, Nov 09, 2015 - 4:53pm

    Reply to #5

    LogansRun

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Mar 18 2009

    Posts: 304

    Time2help wrote:LogansRun

    [quote=Time2help]

    [quote=LogansRun]

    Who has benefited the most through the turmoil wrought by the NATO countries in the ME over the past 20+ years?  Obviously the US Military Industries.  But really, WHO (State) has benefited the most…..?…..

    ISRAEL

    Who is the head of the BIS as well as the FED?  What culture/race are they?

    Do your own research.  Come to your own conclusions.  But remember, there are no coincidences in the world of the elite.

    [/quote]

    My only comment would be to be careful in delineating between the People of Israel and the State of Israel. I suspect that the People of Israel in general share a different "perspective" that a certain portion of Israeli leadership. If any of this is sounding familiar to you here in the US… 

    [/quote]

    Very fair.  

    The Rothschild Zionists that are running the State of Israel as well as the Western Financial/Monetary Institutions are my target.

    Although, the Israeli people's are as much at fault for allowing for the Zionists to control their state (Just as the American people's are at fault for the same).

    Peace

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  • Mon, Nov 09, 2015 - 6:14pm

    #7

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Whocouldaknowed

    Assuming that it's not a just another ruse. I'll agree that evidence (real world, circumstantial and anecdotal) is piling up in droves though. It would appear, at this time based up the information available, that the global monetary system has been captured by a relatively small cabal of (possibly satanic) banksters.

    Honestly, from where I was when all of this started – I did not see that coming surprise.

    You could not make this s**t up.

    The good news here is that I think you will find pretty much universal agreement that "satanic banksters" with access to nuclear and biological weapons is a really bad thing (it would be hard to put a positive spin there, but who the hell knows anymore).

    If I'm off base here I'd love to be wrong about this. Not trying to offend anyone – just looking for the truth.

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  • Mon, Nov 09, 2015 - 7:32pm

    Reply to #5

    HughK

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Mar 06 2012

    Posts: 571

    So why no energy or attention there?

    [quote=LogansRun]

    Who has benefited the most through the turmoil wrought by the NATO countries in the ME over the past 20+ years?  Obviously the US Military Industries.  

    [/quote]

    Yes, obviously.

    Yet no attention has been spent there, doing the hard homework that it would take to better understand the military-industrial complex's role in the deep state.

    Ditto for the lack of effort by those concerned about these issues with respect to the nature of big finance in the United States. Pray tell, was J.P. Morgan Jewish? Were the Rockefellers or the Vanderbilts?

    Ditto for the lack of attention paid to big ag.  Anyone know the history of Monsanto?

    Are the Kochs Jewish?

    It's true that that lobbyists from the State of Israel have too much influence in Washington.  This doesn't mean that either Israel or Jews are secretly running the world. There are a lot of other things happening in terms of any deep state, yet I haven't seen anyone raising concerns about Israel and/or Jewish people lift a finger towards any of that.

    But, as Dan Ariely (a Jewish man and Israeli) reminds us, via Chris, threats are cognitively easier to deal with, and more compelling, if they have a face. On the other hand, maybe all three of the leading behavioral economists/psychologists in history (Kahneman, Tversky, and Ariely) are part of a Jewish/Israeli conspiracy of psychology professors!!! (yes…/sarc)

    It may be comforting to try to blame Israel and an international conspiracy of Jewish bankers, in LogansRun's case, for everything, but that is more likely to whip up hate than shed any real light on the picture. I have seen CHS do way better work on the Deep State than anyone here so far, and as long as people here focus almost exclusively on the foreign policy of the State of Israel it will be a gross oversimplification, and to the extent that they are focusing on the Jewish people per se they will be spreading a bigoted and mendacious red herring.

    No banker made me use a car, an airplane, or a computer. No one made me buy silver, thus adding to environmental destruction. That wasn't any conspiracy. Those were my choices and it's one of the reasons that the blame game is mostly unproductive, even if partially accurate.

    A grownup view of the problems we face recognize that we ourselves have a role in many of them. None of us rich enough to own a computer and with enough leisure time to talk on PP are really victims, comparatively speaking.

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  • Mon, Nov 09, 2015 - 8:22pm

    #8

    HughK

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Mar 06 2012

    Posts: 571

    Follow up - Top 10 defense contractors (2010 data)

    How many of these companies are run by Jewish people?  (Answer: Not many.) Just because someone is Jewish and has a high placed job, do we then say that they're part of a conspiracy?  

    Would the same hold true for anyone who is or was an executive at these companies? Is it really productive to paint such a broad brush? 

    10. Computer Sciences Corp 

    9. Oshkosh

    8. SAIC

    7. United Technologies

    6. L-3 Communications

    5. Raytheon

    4. General Dynamics

    3. Northrup Grumman

    2. Boeing

    1. Lockheed Martin

    Source: Business insider

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  • Mon, Nov 09, 2015 - 8:31pm

    #9

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Who cares?

    If a small group of individuals slowly gains control of the majority of the currencies and financial institutions worldwide, using nefarious, deceitful and frankly – horrific means to attain their goals…who cares what religion they are?  

    Really bad people = really bad people.

    What sucks is when really bad people assign themselves a label, e.g. "I'm a Klingon", do really bad s**t to others, and then when the inevitable backlash occurs, the ones doing the really bad s**t disappear into the woodwork while the rest of the Klingons get hammered.  

    Guilt by association. Seems to be a lot of guilt going around.

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  • Mon, Nov 09, 2015 - 8:41pm

    Reply to #9

    HughK

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Mar 06 2012

    Posts: 571

    You care

    [quote=Time2help]

    What sucks is when really bad people assign themselves a label, e.g. "I'm a Klingon", do really bad s**t to others, and then when the inevitable backlash occurs, the ones doing the really bad s**t disappear into the woodwork while the rest of the Klingons get hammered.  

    [/quote]

    T2H,

    You clearly care, as you've spent a lot of energy making the case that the conspiracy you perceive is led by the Israeli state. You're one of the people labeling it, and we're not talking about Klingon's here, as you and others have stated, you are talking about Jewish people and/or the Israeli state.

    If you won't trust a bankster, would you trust an executive in a military contracting corp? Again, why the broad and oversimplified brush?

    Also, does every thread have to be about Israel and/or the Jews now? 

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  • Mon, Nov 09, 2015 - 8:51pm

    Reply to #9

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Here

    "You clearly care, as you've spent a lot of energy making the case that the conspiracy theory (don't forget to add "theory") you perceive is led by the Israeli State. You're one of the people labeling it, and we're not talking about Klingon's here, as you and others have stated, you are talking about Jewish people and/or the Israeli State and her international banking interests.

    If you won't trust a bankster (LOL), would you trust an executive in a military contracting corp? Again, why the broad and oversimplified brush?

    Also, does every thread have to be about the State of Israel and her international banking interests and/or the Jews now? (Ah yes, guilt)"

    Meh…

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  • Mon, Nov 09, 2015 - 9:20pm

    Reply to #9

    HughK

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Mar 06 2012

    Posts: 571

    Guilt is not the only vice, T2H

    [quote=Time2help]

    "You clearly care, as you've spent a lot of energy making the case that the conspiracy theory (don't forget to add "theory") you perceive is led by the Israeli State. You're one of the people labeling it, and we're not talking about Klingon's here, as you and others have stated, you are talking about Jewish people and/or the Israeli State and her international banking interests.

    If you won't trust a bankster (LOL), would you trust an executive in a military contracting corp? Again, why the broad and oversimplified brush?

    Also, does every thread have to be about the State of Israel and her international banking interests and/or the Jews now? (Ah yes, guilt)"

    Meh…

    [/quote]

    One day you might be ready to develop a mature theory of the deep state, instead of repackaged, half-baked youtube remix of an old and hackneyed slander.

    This is not about guilt; it's about asking you to quit spamming the threads with your obsession.

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  • Mon, Nov 09, 2015 - 9:28pm

    #10

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Ok then

    This conversation with you is definitely not productive, so I'll wave off. Have a nice day.

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  • Mon, Nov 09, 2015 - 9:33pm

    Reply to #10

    HughK

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Mar 06 2012

    Posts: 571

    You too

    Thanks, T2H.

    You too.

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  • Mon, Nov 09, 2015 - 10:03pm

    Reply to #5

    LogansRun

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Mar 18 2009

    Posts: 304

    Zionism

    Is a belief, not a religion.  You don't have to be Jewish to be a Zionist.

    [quote=HughK]

    [quote=LogansRun]

    Who has benefited the most through the turmoil wrought by the NATO countries in the ME over the past 20+ years?  Obviously the US Military Industries.  

    [/quote]

    Yes, obviously.

    Yet no attention has been spent there, doing the hard homework that it would take to better understand the military-industrial complex's role in the deep state.

    Ditto for the lack of effort by those concerned about these issues with respect to the nature of big finance in the United States. Pray tell, was J.P. Morgan Jewish? Were the Rockefellers or the Vanderbilts?

    Ditto for the lack of attention paid to big ag.  Anyone know the history of Monsanto?

    Are the Kochs Jewish?

    It's true that that lobbyists from the State of Israel have too much influence in Washington.  This doesn't mean that either Israel or Jews are secretly running the world. There are a lot of other things happening in terms of any deep state, yet I haven't seen anyone raising concerns about Israel and/or Jewish people lift a finger towards any of that.

    But, as Dan Ariely (a Jewish man and Israeli) reminds us, via Chris, threats are cognitively easier to deal with, and more compelling, if they have a face. On the other hand, maybe all three of the leading behavioral economists/psychologists in history (Kahneman, Tversky, and Ariely) are part of a Jewish/Israeli conspiracy of psychology professors!!! (yes…/sarc)

    It may be comforting to try to blame Israel and an international conspiracy of Jewish bankers, in LogansRun's case, for everything, but that is more likely to whip up hate than shed any real light on the picture. I have seen CHS do way better work on the Deep State than anyone here so far, and as long as people here focus almost exclusively on the foreign policy of the State of Israel it will be a gross oversimplification, and to the extent that they are focusing on the Jewish people per se they will be spreading a bigoted and mendacious red herring.

    No banker made me use a car, an airplane, or a computer. No one made me buy silver, thus adding to environmental destruction. That wasn't any conspiracy. Those were my choices and it's one of the reasons that the blame game is mostly unproductive, even if partially accurate.

    A grownup view of the problems we face recognize that we ourselves have a role in many of them. None of us rich enough to own a computer and with enough leisure time to talk on PP are really victims, comparatively speaking.

    [/quote]

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  • Mon, Nov 09, 2015 - 10:49pm

    Reply to #9

    Chris Martenson

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 07 2007

    Posts: 4548

    Hmmmm...over the top.

    [quote=HughK]

    One day you might be ready to develop a mature theory of the deep state, instead of repackaged, half-baked youtube remix of an old and hackneyed slander.

    This is not about guilt; it's about asking you to quit spamming the threads with your obsession.

    [/quote]

    Ah!  Very good,  We finally have an expert on the deep state who can tell us truth from fiction.

    Do share!

    Otherwise, that's quite an emotional outburst there (as measured by the emotional content of the words) and I might be tempted to think you  are operating from a belief state instead.

    So let's have the right story on the table please?  

    Who is it, exactly, that's constantly seeking to disrupt the Middle east into a fractured stew of ineffective states?  There are not that many candidates…but you apparently have the answer, so I'd love to hear it,as I am sure everyone would. 

     

     

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  • Mon, Nov 09, 2015 - 10:52pm

    #11
    jgritter

    jgritter

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Dec 13 2011

    Posts: 157

    Missile Launch

    Anyone want to weigh in on the speculation that the missiles launched off the coast of California were Russian?

    John G.

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  • Mon, Nov 09, 2015 - 11:02pm

    #12

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Don't start a post with the title "Missile Launch"!

    Please

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  • Mon, Nov 09, 2015 - 11:22pm

    #13

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    How much truth is there to this?

    Excerpt from website rense.com:  http://www.rense.com/general86/zelephant.htm

    [quote]The Zionist Elephant In The Room
    The David Icke Newsletter
    (Admin: Excerpt limit exceeded..).[/quote]

    T2H – Chris here.  First, there's an excerpt limit we have to impose for copyright issues.

    So a snippet and a link is our rule.

    Second, I am highly allergic to Rense generally and David Icke specifically because both have proven (to me) over time to make extraordinary incredible,, inflammatory and unfounded claims.

     

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  • Tue, Nov 10, 2015 - 12:25am

    Reply to #9
    Trun87114

    Trun87114

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 29 2013

    Posts: 79

    Zionists

    I think Hugh has a legitimate point.  I'm not Jewish but I perceive a substantial anti-Semitic sentiment to several recent posts here.  Maybe I'm not as well versed in the dangers posed by the "Zionists" as some here but I don't think I'm going out on a limb to say that most ordinary Jews just want to live their lives in peace, just like any other population.  If there is hard evidence otherwise, I'm open to hearing it.

    As to who it is who is seeking to disrupt the Middle East, I say WTF?

    According to my history books, that part of the world has been being disrupted by various tribes, cultures, militias and nation-states since the dawn of civilized man, and certainly well before the establishment of the nation of Israel.  

     

     

    [quote=cmartenson]

    [quote=HughK]

    One day you might be ready to develop a mature theory of the deep state, instead of repackaged, half-baked youtube remix of an old and hackneyed slander.

    This is not about guilt; it's about asking you to quit spamming the threads with your obsession.

    [/quote]

    Ah!  Very good,  We finally have an expert on the deep state who can tell us truth from fiction.

    Do share!

    Otherwise, that's quite an emotional outburst there (as measured by the emotional content of the words) and I might be tempted to think you  are operating from a belief state instead.

    So let's have the right story on the table please?  

    Who is it, exactly, that's constantly seeking to disrupt the Middle east into a fractured stew of ineffective states?  There are not that many candidates…but you apparently have the answer, so I'd love to hear it,as I am sure everyone would. 

     

     

    [/quote]

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  • Tue, Nov 10, 2015 - 12:35am

    #14

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Re: How much truth is there to this?

    Understood.

    My point in posting this was not to inflame, but to point to a pattern that I, and others, are seeing in all of this. There are a number of sites out there that discuss this topic, however the majority of them do a very poor job of separating out the two topics (Rothschild banking syndicate/7 countries in 5 years/etc. and the Jewish people). There's so much hate and guilt built up around this particular topic. Hard to know what is wheat and what is chaff.

    Frankly I'm at a loss as to how to broach the topic in a way that doesn't come off as inflammatory.

    So I'll settle for this:

    Is the Rothschild banking syndicate, out of Israel, the apex of a financial pyramid that is driving conflict worldwide for profit and power – with the ultimate goal of consolidating power into a one world government?

     

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  • Tue, Nov 10, 2015 - 12:38am

    #15

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    A quick Visual

    https://youtu.be/44vzMNG2fZc

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  • Tue, Nov 10, 2015 - 1:11am

    Reply to #11

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Missile Launch

    Heh-heh.

    [quote=jgritter]

    Anyone want to weigh in on the speculation that the missiles launched off the coast of California were Russian?

    John G.

    [/quote]

    The 5 second clip that popped into my head when I saw the launch footage was of Putin, calling up the WH just before launch and saying "We're running SLBM test in California now. Don't vorry, it's just dummy warhead" and then hanging up.

    Hard to tell, but we may be closer that we think to confrontation.

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  • Tue, Nov 10, 2015 - 1:35am

    #16

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Second missile launch over SoCal

    Navy launches second test missile off Southern California coast (LA Times)

    [quote]

    The (first) submarine missile test came late Saturday after Defense Secretary Ashton Carter addressed a defense forum at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library in Simi Valley about the U.S. “adapting our operational posture and contingency plans” to deter Russia’s “aggression.”

    “We do not seek a cold, let alone a hot, war with Russia,” he said to the forum. “We do not seek to make Russia an enemy. But make no mistake; the United States will defend our interests, our allies, the principled international order, and the positive future it affords us all.”

    [/quote]

    "We do not seek a cold, let alone a hot, war with Russia".  Sounds like an official denial.

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  • Tue, Nov 10, 2015 - 4:56am

    Reply to #9

    mememonkey

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Nov 01 2009

    Posts: 100

    Reflexive programming

    [quote=Trun87114]

    I think Hugh has a legitimate point.  I'm not Jewish but I perceive a substantial anti-Semitic sentiment to several recent posts here.  Maybe I'm not as well versed in the dangers posed by the "Zionists" as some here but I don't think I'm going out on a limb to say that most ordinary Jews just want to live their lives in peace, just like any other population.  If there is hard evidence otherwise, I'm open to hearing it.

    As to who it is who is seeking to disrupt the Middle East, I say WTF?

    According to my history books, that part of the world has been being disrupted by various tribes, cultures, militias and nation-states since the dawn of civilized man, and certainly well before the establishment of the nation of Israel.  

    [/quote]

    Your response well intentioned as I'm sure you are is unfortunately typical of the unthinking reflexive response that has been programmed into our body politic, by decades of agenda driven propaganda.  Use of the label anti-semetic, is about as useful as the pejorative "Conspiracy theorist" it serves only to trigger an emotional response which shuts down critical thinking, discussion of facts and debate. This is by design.  ADL 101

     As to your points.  T2H was explicit in his first post on this topic as to distinguishing between the agenda of Zionists and the broader classification of Jewish people.  It is you that is unwittingly conflating the two even as you draw your distinction by stating the obvious truth that most Jewish people simply want to live in peace.  

    As to your rejoinder to Chris' implication that there is a group with an agenda to fragment and weaken states in the Mid East. you serve up another simplified strawman argument.  Yes of course the Mid East has always been home to disruptions of tribes culture, nation states etc.  as has Europe, Africa, Asia etc.  you are describing the human condition. 

    What we are discussing is the devolution of the Post War status quo. Into the emerging world war. This development was architected and declared by the Israeli likudniks, (Clean Break Strategy) during the Clinton Administration and implemented and continues to be implemented via the hegemonic power of the US by the NeoCons. see PNAC. This is the group we are discussing and while they are not all Jewish, they are all  Zionists.

    The extent that they have been so successful in these serial war crimes without repercussions is a testament to the consolidation of editorial  control in the media.  It is a simple fact that the vast majority of the MSM is under the executive control of self proclaimed Zionists.

    Coincidence? unlikely.

    The arguments that Hugh K puts forward, trying to nuance the distinction by framing the deep state as being controlled by more than just "Jews" is also a strawman. Of course the Deep State is not monolithic.  the Military industrial component has different, competing as well as overlapping interests as does Big Energy etc.  that does not obviate the influence and control component of the Zionists.

    Where I differ from T2H on this subject, is that I believe that yours and Hugh k' apologists responses are an unconscious reflexive programmed attempt at politicaly correct censorship.  And T2H (in my opinion would ascribe Hugh's statements as intentional misdirection/misrepresentation.

    One thing is clear it is impossible to discuss this subject without tripping on those emotional land mines.   It takes a bit of work to see how and who laid down those land mines in our collective consciousness  but the information is there if you chose to look.

     

    Mememonkey

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  • Tue, Nov 10, 2015 - 5:34am

    Reply to #16
    lmcdel

    lmcdel

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jul 12 2012

    Posts: 9

    saturday's missile

    The article says "The test on Saturday featured the launch of a missile outfitted with a dummy warhead toward the Kwajalein Atoll, a missile test site that’s part of the Marshall Islands in the western Pacific."

    I know absolutely nothing about missiles, but I do know that numerous people here in western Colorado saw the Saturday night missile.  How does a missile launched off hte coast, and headed further west get seen in western Colorado? Is it that high in the sky that it can be seen here just as well as in so. Cal?

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  • Tue, Nov 10, 2015 - 6:06am

    #17

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Former Putin aide, founder of Russia Today, found dead in DC

    Former Putin aide, founder of Russia Today, found dead at Dupont Circle Hotel (WJLA Washington DC)

    [quote]Sources told ABC News the man found dead in the Dupont Circle Hotel is identified as Mikhail Lesin, a long time adviser to Russian President Vladimir Putin…

    …It's unknown why Lesin, a multi-millionaire with high-level ties to the Kremlin, would be in Washington.

    He's credited with creating 'Russia Today', an English language network backed by the Russian government.

    Calling this a 'death investigation' implies no foul play is suspected. But autopsy results should resolve the mystery as to how Lesin died.

    Public records show Lesin was a rich man.

    [/quote]

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  • Tue, Nov 10, 2015 - 6:23am

    #18

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Some interesting Youtube comments

    [quote]Jason Dell 1 day ago – The problem with the missile test explanation is that the officials say it occurred in the Pacific Test Range which is Northwest of Los Angeles. So why did the object move from South to North as viewed from Los Angeles? I saw it myself, and all the video from Los Angeles clearly shows movement from left to right. All the film footage is facing West towards the ocean, so left to right means South to North. It's impossible for a projectile like a missile to originate in the Northwest and move from the South TO the North. Also, what I saw originated far in the Southwest.[/quote]
     
    [quote]Spartan 1 day ago – This object flew right above my place , I live 50 Miles east of San Francisco.[/quote]
     
    [quote]TRUTH HAS NO AGENDA 2 days ago – I was there saw the whole thing while walking my dogs at sunset cliffs san diego – it came up from BELOW the horizon lighting up the ocean long before we actually saw anything (it was that far out to sea) then it looked like lights from an aircraft. once it reached the zenith of the sky it stopped and created a HUGE halo of light with a green light at the center. and then over 20 minutes it all faded away. It all acted like a very expensive flare.[/quote]
     
    [quote]Johnny Gonzalez 15 hours ago – Trident II Nukes do not spur a blue flare. It would have left a huge vapor and smoke trail. I've seen trident tests before. go ahead and look at trident 2 videos and judge… Object seen over 500+ miles away is too big for a FCM like the trident 2.[/quote]
     
    So….incoming from south/southwest to north/northeast. What color does Trident II fuel burn?

     

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  • Tue, Nov 10, 2015 - 7:41am

    #19

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Meh...

    Mystery light over ocean was missile test (San Diego Union Tribune)

    [quote]"The test was part of a scheduled, on-going system evaluation test, said Cmdr. Ryan Perry with the Navy’s Third Fleet.

    The missile was not armed and Strategic Systems Programs does not routinely announce missile testing. Information regarding the test launch of such missiles is classified prior to the launch, Perry said.

    The test range is a massive area northwest of Los Angeles. The Navy periodically uses the range to test fire Tomahawk and Standard cruise from surface ships and submarines."

    "Some people saw it fade from bright red to white or blue, and thought it traveled from south to north."[/quote]

    Photo of exhaust plume from 4th Street Bridge over the 110 Freeway in Los Angeles.

    Picture of same location and orientation from Google Earth.

    This section of freeway is heading almost perfectly southwest, so the plume above appears to originate south of this location, and appears to be heading left-to-right, roughly south to north.

    [quote=Jason Dell]

    Jason Dell 1 day ago – The problem with the missile test explanation is that the officials say it occurred in the Pacific Test Range which is Northwest of Los Angeles. So why did the object move from South to North as viewed from Los Angeles? I saw it myself, and all the video from Los Angeles clearly shows movement from left to right. All the film footage is facing West towards the ocean, so left to right means South to North. It's impossible for a projectile like a missile to originate in the Northwest and move from the South TO the North. Also, what I saw originated far in the Southwest.

    [/quote]

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  • Tue, Nov 10, 2015 - 12:31pm

    Reply to #9

    HughK

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Mar 06 2012

    Posts: 571

    Apologies and consistency

    [quote=cmartenson]

    Otherwise, that's quite an emotional outburst there (as measured by the emotional content of the words) and I might be tempted to think you  are operating from a belief state instead.

    [/quote]

    Hi Chris and all,

    First of all, you’re right that my post that you cited above was both emotionally charged and not supported by evidence and I owe PP and T2H an apology for that. Sorry to all; that wasn’t productive of me and I’ll try not to do that in the future.  I was still testy, I guess, after having been called a disinformation agent by the poster in question, as well as the blurred line here recently regarding holding the government of Israel accountable vs. making assumptions about people based on the fact that they're Jewish by some posters (not T2H), but that’s no excuse for my response, and I'm sorry.

    I agree with the principle that we should provide evidence for the theories and opinions we share here and also that we should try to minimize the emotional charge of our posts, and in a moment of weakness I did not remain consistent to those principles.

    It would be more consistent if you also took the time to step in when others make such emotional and belief-based statements, such as when T2H accused PP community members of being disinformation agents and/or trolls last week, but in those cases you either lent him explicit support or were aware of his unbacked, belief based ad hom’s and decided to let them slide by without addressing them.

    Do you care to explain why you chose to single out my comment above when you have not said anything about many others that meet similar criteria, including these examples?

    Cheers,

    Hugh

     

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  • Tue, Nov 10, 2015 - 12:54pm

    Reply to #15

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    Orlov's analysis.

    http://cluborlov.blogspot.com.au/2015/11/an-exit-strategy-for-traitors.html

    Ask yourself, why would millions of men (the overwhelming majority are young men) suddenly and collectively decide to leave their families behind, leave their country, travel thousands of miles and head for either Germany, Austria or Sweden, ignoring all the other safe countries on the way? Who told them that this would be worth it? Where did they all get the money to pay for it? Why was there absolutely no effort at any border to stop them? Why did this not start earlier? After all, the middle east has been a war zone for years—ever since the USA exploited 9/11 to start “spreading democracy.” How could this happen within days, weeks at most. Did the first hundred thousand send a message to the rest that it was OK for them to come too? If so, how?

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  • Tue, Nov 10, 2015 - 1:51pm

    #20
    Transcend

    Transcend

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 28 2012

    Posts: 51

    My Beliefs โ€“ Open to change, thatโ€™s why Iโ€™m here

    I’m Jewish.  I’m not religious.  I’m 32. I was born in Canada and have always lived in Canada.  I don’t believe I’m smarter than anyone here.

    Intro:  The reason I’m a member on this site is to get a better understanding of the world and make changes to my life that I feel are important and make practical sense with everything going on around me.  Most people don’t want to change and don’t want to face reality…it’s difficult.

    Beliefs:  I went to Israel 11 years ago on a free trip for being a Jew.  I saw a beautiful country (Negev, Masada, Dead Sea, Jerusalem, Red Sea, Sea of Galilee, etc).  It was filled with all different people like anywhere else in the world.  I saw a country that has an enormous amount of history and much like other places, is being destroyed in all sorts of ways.  People who live there are forced to join the army at 18 and have to serve at least 4 years.  My experience was similar to this.  At times I felt influenced to be more involved in the religion and take part in the traditions, but it has never appealed to me.  Growing up, my family celebrated the holidays and I went to Hebrew school once a week from a young age until I had my Bar Mitzvah at 13.  As a family we got together with our extended family during high holidays, but that was it.  We stopped going to synagogue.  My mom died 6 years ago and about 4 years before she died, she started having an attachment to Israel and Judaism.   She had a friend that she wrote with who was a Holocaust survivor, who was a big inspiration to her.  She never hated anyone, in fact, she would frequently say that hate is such a strong word…the Germans hated the Jews during the Second WW. I think she also saw Israel in the same way, a historic country with lots of beauty that is being destroyed.  I don’t believe Israel is the only victim, but I also don’t believe fingers should be pointed at it and that it should be a target.  My belief is that there are Jews who want to protect the country and do hold hatred towards other groups.  My belief is also that there are other ethnoreligious groups who hold hatred towards Jews and other groups of people.  I want to protect the country and all the others around it.  In fact, I’m contemplating taking a trip to the Middle East to get a better understanding.  I met a Kuwaiti on my travels in August.  She was lovely.  Down to earth, educated, outgoing, adventurous and many other great qualities.  How could I possibly put her into a larger set of people and call her bad and hold negative feelings towards her.  We are both friends now and she also doesn’t hold hatred towards me just because I’m Jewish or because I say Israel is a great country. I know that there are a lot of Jewish people who are afraid of history repeating and I think that's a big reason why some are very passionate about their people.  Genocide is not something I support.  War is not something I support.

    Someone who is religious and gets very defensive when it comes to Israel showed me this video.  My response was “what do you want me to do about it?  There’s bad people everywhere”.  While his emphasis was on Palestinians, mine was on the violent person.

    I’m tired of all these generalizations and labels.  I’m interested in sorting out where this all comes from. I’m interested in constructive criticism.  Chris and Adam know from building this site, writing books and traveling to spread the word about the 3 E’s how difficult it is to have people change.  I think blaming the Israeli people, or the people in the US, or Canada, or Russia is not the right approach.  I think that’s the easy way out and somewhat cowardly.  To point fingers at a broad group or country does not solve anything. I don't see any difference in that and being racist. It’s getting an understanding for an individual and carefully giving a different perspective so the change is beneficial to the world. It isn't about pushing that person in a direction.  It's about offering your outlook and letting them change for themselves.  It's about leading by example.  I don't have patience for people who are violent and mean. Maybe it's because I haven't been living the same lives as others.  I haven't been deprived. I wasn't raised to hate a certain type of person.  I wasn't abused as a child.  I wasn't raped.  I guess we are who we are through our experiences.  With all the things humans have accomplished, it's astounding to me we aren't further along in the simple way of relationships and communication.  Why bother with the rest if we can't resolve things and work together peacefully. It's pathetic and it's where I become despondent and discouraged. I'm not hopeful in a calm and constructive outcome. It will be destructive and degenerative, but I believe the answer is not pointing the finger at a group or country. It's focusing on the individual and treating them differently than the next.

    It sounds like the conclusion is the deep state equals Zionists, who may or may not be Jewish and Israel is the headquarters of the elite.  Maybe that’s true and I’m open minded enough to hear more from this community and be directed to reading materials to further my education.  I’d again like to point out that regardless if that’s true or not, the 75% Jews and 20% Arabs who live there are not all bad and certainly the trees, deserts, wildlife, lakes, rivers, mountains, and ancient structures are not bad. And no, this isn’t a strawman or anything else.  It’s simply my beliefs that were formed from my experiences. I’m open to hearing how they are flawed.

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  • Tue, Nov 10, 2015 - 2:01pm

    Reply to #9

    KugsCheese

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 01 2010

    Posts: 824

    cmartenson wrote:HughK

    [quote=cmartenson]

    [quote=HughK]

    One day you might be ready to develop a mature theory of the deep state, instead of repackaged, half-baked youtube remix of an old and hackneyed slander.

    This is not about guilt; it's about asking you to quit spamming the threads with your obsession.

    [/quote]

    Ah!  Very good,  We finally have an expert on the deep state who can tell us truth from fiction.

    Do share!

    Otherwise, that's quite an emotional outburst there (as measured by the emotional content of the words) and I might be tempted to think you  are operating from a belief state instead.

    So let's have the right story on the table please?  

    Who is it, exactly, that's constantly seeking to disrupt the Middle east into a fractured stew of ineffective states?  There are not that many candidates…but you apparently have the answer, so I'd love to hear it,as I am sure everyone would. 

     

     

    [/quote]

    Anyone who has worked in market leading companies knows usually the incentives are to build up the CEO.  Given this the corollary is CYA since all employees want the CEO's shine.   What results?   We need no conspiracies, only psychopaths.  Then all else we bitch about follows.

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  • Tue, Nov 10, 2015 - 2:44pm

    Reply to #9

    Jim H

    Status Diamond Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1798

    See the tripwires being placed....

    Mememonkey said in his most excellent comment,

    One thing is clear it is impossible to discuss this subject without tripping on those emotional land mines.   It takes a bit of work to see how and who laid down those land mines in our collective consciousness  but the information is there if you chose to look.

    Indeed.  Here we can see a new section of third rail actually being built.. equating those who would dare to think about the truth behind 9/11 as being, "Holocaust deniers" along with a neat little strawman argument that would suggest conspiracy theorists don't believe planes went into the buildings.  The question is;  which planes?  Start at about 4:00…

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcM2yBTCmK8

     

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  • Tue, Nov 10, 2015 - 3:42pm

    #21

    sand_puppy

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 1879

    Mememonkey: Request for more information

    I greatly appreciate your comments above.

    What we are discussing is the devolution of the Post War status quo. Into the emerging world war. This development was architected and declared by the Israeli likudniks, (Clean Break Strategy) during the Clinton Administration and implemented and continues to be implemented via the hegemonic power of the US by the NeoCons. see PNAC. This is the group we are discussing and while they are not all Jewish, they are all  Zionists.

    Could you please recommend reading material on this topic that sounds correct and trustworthy to you?

     

     

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  • Tue, Nov 10, 2015 - 4:16pm

    #22

    sand_puppy

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 1879

    Transend: Thank you for bringing Jewish PPers perspectives

    Transend,

    I really appreciate your inclusion here and leaning about your thoughts and experiences traveling in Israel and the middle-east.  I want to keep inviting our Jewish members to participate and to know that we value the Jewish people, culture and religion.

    I want to very clearly support your impression:

    …the 75% Jews and 20% Arabs who live there [in Israel] are not all bad and certainly the trees, deserts, wildlife, lakes, rivers, mountains, and ancient structures are not bad.

    Absolutely support this and agree.

    ——————————————————

    As you know, we have the exact same problem in the USA.  The moral developmental level of the American population (and majority of government and LEO) exceeds that of the NeoCon faction that holds quite a bit of power.  Yet they seem to be able to bomb, assassinate and invade fairly freely.

     

     

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  • Tue, Nov 10, 2015 - 5:00pm

    #23

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    It comes clear.

    After a troubled sleep, it is clear to me. 

    The Wolfowitz doctrine. 

    The document was widely criticized as imperialist as the document outlined a policy of unilateralism and pre-emptive military action to suppress potential threats from other nations and prevent any other nation from rising to superpower status.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfowitz_Doctrine

    Merkel gave a speech in which she said that multi-culti was dead.  Then she was seen in tears saying "No, I will not commit suicide. " 

    Something changed.  Let me guess.  Merkel was ordered to attack the Ukraine. She refused. They said "If you don't we will destroy Europe. "

    She was given an option she could not refuse,  to coin a phrase.  

    Germany has been occupied for 80 years. The fault lies with the occupiers. Switzerland,  not so much. They are required by law to be armed at all times. 

    I am not a Lamb of God I am a Wolf of Odin. Germany, Denmark and Sweden are little lambs.  Norway. Jury is out. They have Breivik. But are they armed?

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  • Tue, Nov 10, 2015 - 5:17pm

    #24

    sand_puppy

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 1879

    Bamford's: Pretext For War

    I am very new to this line of inquiry.  It looks like James Bamford's book "Pretext For War" reports on the complex relationships between the Israeli Likund and the US Neocon factions during the early Bush II years and the way they cooperated to fabricate WMD "evidence" and sell wars in the middle east. 

    Corruption and immorality at the highest levels of both nations.

    And yes, Arthur, the Wolfowitz doctrine was a core part of this story.

    Pretext for War (with discussion and exerpts)

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  • Tue, Nov 10, 2015 - 6:02pm

    Reply to #9

    thatchmo

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Dec 13 2008

    Posts: 322

    Hillarious Chertoff quote....

    Something to the effect that Congress has failed "actually sitting down and thinking through, in a bi-partisan way", to formulate a legal method of dealing with terrorism.  Yeah, sure, we'll do that tomorrow…..Aloha, Steve.

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  • Tue, Nov 10, 2015 - 6:20pm

    Reply to #11

    Dogs_In_A_Pile

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 04 2009

    Posts: 810

    You Rang?

    [quote=jgritter]

    Anyone want to weigh in on the speculation that the missiles launched off the coast of California were Russian?

    John G.

    [/quote]

    Yes.  They were not Russian.  Any such speculation is bunk.

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  • Tue, Nov 10, 2015 - 6:37pm

    Reply to #16

    Dogs_In_A_Pile

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 04 2009

    Posts: 810

    Physics and Orbital Mechanics say "Yes"

    [quote=lmcdel]

    The article says "The test on Saturday featured the launch of a missile outfitted with a dummy warhead toward the Kwajalein Atoll, a missile test site that’s part of the Marshall Islands in the western Pacific."

    I know absolutely nothing about missiles, but I do know that numerous people here in western Colorado saw the Saturday night missile.  How does a missile launched off hte coast, and headed further west get seen in western Colorado? Is it that high in the sky that it can be seen here just as well as in so. Cal?

    [/quote]

    McD – I know quite a bit about SLBMs.  I should.  I spent 13 of my 37 (and counting) years of service to this country either on an SSBN or working direct support on the staff of major submarine and strategic shore commands.  Anyways…

    All phases of flight are tested – prelaunch, launch, booster ignition, boost phase, transition to ballistic flight, transition to exoatmospheric flight, exoatmospheric flight, midcourse guidance, transition to re-entry, re-entry, pre-arming, arming, impact.

    On a clear day you can see forever.  On a clear night you can see even foreverer.  Depending on the downrange flight distance to the impact range, the loft or boost "up" distance could easily be high enough to be seen in CO.  (Must have been quite the shocker for those Coloradoans enjoying the local "foliage"…..I digress)

    That was a long "yes" answer to your question about whether or not  a launch from the SOCAL OPAREA is that high in the sky to be seen in CO.

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  • Tue, Nov 10, 2015 - 6:45pm

    Reply to #11

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Hmmm...

    [quote=Dogs_In_A_Pile]

    Yes.  They were not Russian.  Any such speculation is bunk.

    [/quote]

    I'm inclined to agree. The idea of Russia or China lobbing a SLBM or ICBM over downtown Los Angeles as a "show of resolve" just seems…too provocative. Really easy to start a shooting war that way. Stranger things have happened though.

    The shot going visibly south-to-north near major population centers (San Diego, Los Angeles, San Francisco) is a pretty clear signal…this was purposely done for show and effect (whether to intimidate Russia/China or psyop Americans, or both).

    As a general note – it would be really nice if people would stop lobbing nuclear weapons platforms around whilst thumping their chests…

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  • Tue, Nov 10, 2015 - 7:10pm

    Reply to #19

    Dogs_In_A_Pile

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 04 2009

    Posts: 810

    Or....

    [quote=Time2help]

    [quote]  The test range is a massive area northwest of Los Angeles.

    [/quote]

    This section of freeway is heading almost perfectly southwest, so the plume above appears to originate south of this location, and appears to be heading left-to-right, roughly south to north.

    [quote=Jason Dell]

    Jason Dell 1 day ago – The problem with the missile test explanation is that the officials say it occurred in the Pacific Test Range which is Northwest of Los Angeles. So why did the object move from South to North as viewed from Los Angeles? I saw it myself, and all the video from Los Angeles clearly shows movement from left to right. All the film footage is facing West towards the ocean, so left to right means South to North. It's impossible for a projectile like a missile to originate in the Northwest and move from the South TO the North. Also, what I saw originated far in the Southwest.

    [/quote]

    [/quote]

    The problem with Jason's postulation is his fatally flawed assumption that the launch platform was in the PTR NW of LA.  Facing west with a left to right component only means that there is some cross range track distance traveled in a northerly direction, but not necessarily cardinal north.  The other assumption that may be flawed is location of the impact area.  If the impact area was anything WNW of the launch point………

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  • Tue, Nov 10, 2015 - 7:17pm

    Reply to #11

    Dogs_In_A_Pile

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 04 2009

    Posts: 810

    Then there's this...

    [quote=Time2help]

    As a general note – it would be really nice if people would stop lobbing nuclear weapons platforms around whilst thumping their chests…

    [/quote]

    Actually, there is a very good reason to periodically lob these platforms around.  We have a robust test program for two reasons.  We have to make sure these things will work when they are supposed to just as much as we have to make sure that they don't "work" when they aren't supposed to.

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  • Tue, Nov 10, 2015 - 7:31pm

    #25

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Ok then

    Yeah, I get it. They can extend the range well south if so desired (see bottom left of map below). Your track makes sense as well, the left to right in the picture above could easily mask a westerly trajectory component. Guess you would just have to be there to observe the actual track.

    [quote]Spartan 1 day ago – This object flew right above my place , I live 50 Miles east of San Francisco.[/quote]

    The timing and location of the shot were obviously for show.

    [quote]As a general note – it would be really nice if people would stop lobbing nuclear weapons platforms around whilst thumping their chests…[/quote]

    Sucks for poor Jason to be fatally flawed…RIP dude. What did Jason ever do to anyone?

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  • Tue, Nov 10, 2015 - 7:47pm

    Reply to #11

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Not biting

    [quote=Dogs_In_A_Pile]

    Actually, there is a very good reason to periodically lob these platforms around.  We have a robust test program for two reasons.  We have to make sure these things will work when they are supposed to just as much as we have to make sure that they don't "work" when they aren't supposed to.

    [/quote]

    Yeah, I get that. But given the location, timing and that everyone with a friggin' cellphone on the west coast could record it for posterity…given the geopolitical atmosphere, my impression is that it was done primarily for psychological impact. Raising the tension level between the US and Russian (and possibly China).

    What is being toyed with here is nothing less than massive death. So my point stands.

    [quote=Time2help]

    As a general note – it would be really nice if people would stop lobbing nuclear weapons platforms around whilst thumping their chests…

    [/quote]

    Just sayin'

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  • Tue, Nov 10, 2015 - 8:02pm

    Reply to #11

    Dogs_In_A_Pile

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 04 2009

    Posts: 810

    Bite this then.... ;)

    [quote=Time2help]

    Yeah, I get that. But given the location, timing and that everyone with a friggin' cellphone on the west coast could record it for posterity…given the geopolitical atmosphere, my impression is that it was done primarily for psychological impact. Raising the tension level between the US and Russian (and possibly China).

    What is being toyed with here is nothing less than massive death. So my point stands.

    [/quote]

    You would likely be surprised at the level of advanced notification and observable launch preparation that occurs beforehand to ensure tension levels aren't raised.  At least with state actors that matter.

    Now some of the stuff being floated around out there is priceless.  Natural News had a few fabulously written articles, but I had to stop reading periodically to clean the vomit off my monitor…..not really, but my point is, hopefully, also made.

    (Damn…..a run-on sentence with three split infinitives.  Profuse apologies to Mrs. Wamsley, my 4th grade English teacher)

    PS – Jason was (likely) not fatally flawed….but some of his assumptions were.  Carry on……

     

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  • Tue, Nov 10, 2015 - 8:28pm

    #26

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Fine, I'll bite that

    I'm sure that this was, in no way, shape or form, intended to influence or disturb.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxP7GL4J3Ro

    Frankly, after the other big topic of conversation in this thread I feel tired.

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  • Tue, Nov 10, 2015 - 9:52pm

    Reply to #26

    Dogs_In_A_Pile

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 04 2009

    Posts: 810

    Likely unintended (non)consequence

    [quote]

    I'm sure that this was, in no way, shape or form, intended to influence or disturb.

    [/quote]

    Intended?  Probably not.  Launch windows vary all the time depending on conditions at the launch site, flight observation points along the way and the impact range.  This (to me) was little more than a routine test launch.  It just happened to be a night.  I've done these…they're boring and frankly all we wanted to do was shoot the bird(s), return to port and get the techies and wonks and all their gear off the boat so we could get on with the business of training the crew and getting our proficiency at underway operations back up to speed.  These shots are typically done following a major upkeep or overhaul period to certify the launch platform and its supporting systems.  That's all.

    I saw it for what it was and shared that information – but I'm kinda infamous around here for swimming against the stream.  Other people see what they want to see.  Sometimes that disturbs them.  I am of no help there.

    [quote]

    Frankly, after the other big topic of conversation in this thread I feel tired.

    [/quote]

    Thankfully I missed that part and probably have no interest in engaging.

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  • Wed, Nov 11, 2015 - 1:56am

    Reply to #25

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 405

    Israel is a US puppet government

    I put this dashboard together to show you where the US invests it's military resources. Basically, there are two ways the US can invest in a global position using military resources. One way is through boots on the ground and the other way is to invest in a puppet army through military aid. I've never seen anybody put the two together before, so I present the following dashboards.

    https://public.tableau.com/profile/brendan8450#!/vizhome/AmericanEmpire/Dashboard1

    There are 3 dashboards. The first dashboard shows total estimated military investment by country by summing the costs of military aid as well as boots on the ground.  I make the assumption that each soldier on the ground is an investment of $100,000 per year. That is a wayyy low-ball figure because a soldier stationed in Afghanistan is actually estimated at $850,000. The only way to standardize the globe would be to assume the national average of $100,000 which is salary, healthcare, etc. for each soldier.This does not include all of the other massive expenses for each military base, such as overhead, equipment, etc. I'm not sure where to get figures for that.

    So Estimated Total Investment = Military Aid ($) + (Number of soldiers * $100,000)

    The dashboard is interactive, but I didn't include any filters or anything because I'm lazy. Hover over each country for more details as well as navigate across the map by clicking and dragging

    The second dashboard shows where US troops are stationed across the globe. Darker red means more troops and grey means fewer. This does not include any deployments under 100, so embassies alone are not included.

    The third dashboard shows military aid by country. Only countries that receive military aid are identified.

    Clicking between dashboard 2 and 3 you will see there is very little overlap. Only 7 countries in the world have both boots on the ground as well as military aid. 

    So knowing that these charts only include troop expenses and not all the other massive investments in maintaining a military base etc., you will understand that Israel is nothing but a strategic low-cost military investment for the US government (outsourced military).

    I know that is a "bold" statement, but there have been a few already in this thread. My point is that Israel is both militarily and economically reliant on the US and therefore Israel is a slave to the US and her dollar… not the other way around.

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  • Wed, Nov 11, 2015 - 2:05am

    #27

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    The FED

    There are other avenues for “aid”. Who, exactly, are the primary shareholders of the Federal Reserve System? I’d imagine that a bit of “aid” flows through that.

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  • Wed, Nov 11, 2015 - 2:09am

    #28

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Nukes

    Just curious, off the books, have we “given” anybody else nuclear weapons?

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  • Wed, Nov 11, 2015 - 2:22am

    Reply to #27

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 405

    That's an assumption

    That's an assumption because we don't know who owns the federal reserve ๐Ÿ˜‰ The bank of Israel may own a bit, but nobody but the federal reserve knows that.

    I also forgot to mention that the military aid numbers were figures from 2014, and the military deployment data is from June of this year.

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  • Wed, Nov 11, 2015 - 4:39am

    Reply to #21

    mememonkey

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Nov 01 2009

    Posts: 100

    sand_puppy wrote:Could you

    [quote=sand_puppy]

    Could you please recommend reading material on this topic that sounds correct and trustworthy to you?

    [/quote]

    Sand Puppy,  you mentioned Bamford's book ' A pretext for war'  he gets a lot of the context right but misses the real ramifications of 9/11.    one of the better political minds on the neocon likudnik agenda is Patrick J Buchanan, he writes knowledgeably about the players.  An article from American Conservative 2003 presciently surmises the unfolding chaos we see now.

    Whose War?

    I have found the best way to approach an understanding of subjects like the agenda of the Likud Party and the Neo Cons is to study their own publications, statements, and public policy actions.  Start with the the foundational original documents  "A clean break -strategy for securing the realm" and the subsequent PNAC Rebuilding America's Defenses http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/pdf/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

    Be sure to read the PNAC letter to Bush post 91:   http://zfacts.com/node/307

    check out the Neo Con Likudnik online propagana extravaganza magazine   "Commentary"  https://www.commentarymagazine.com/

    Reading  Secondary analysis is useful, but only when approached with a keen eye to the inherent bias/world view of the analysts You can find critical analysts on both sides of the political spectrum. Eg Justin Raimondo William Engdahl on the left, Buchanan, Paul Craig Roberts on the traditional right.

    I say 'approach an understanding' is because that is the best one can hope for to come closer to an elusive objective reality.  The inherent complexity of the issues, agendas and actors that embody the subject is daunting.  The strategies and philosophies of these guys are all on public display.  The real evil is happening behind closed doors in the halls of power.  If you look at the policies the actions and the outcomes of the players involved you can see the clear patterns that emerge. Unfortunately that mostly amounts to what the legal system would define as a circumstantial case.

    The emergence of these actors and embedding into our foreign/military  policy apparatus is simply stunning. The manner in which they coopted other agenda's and elements of the deep state was brilliant.  The outcomes are both tragic and disasterous.

    mememonkey

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  • Wed, Nov 11, 2015 - 5:45am

    Reply to #26
    nigel

    nigel

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 15 2009

    Posts: 90

    Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote:I saw

    [quote=Dogs_In_A_Pile]

    I saw it for what it was and shared that information – but I'm kinda infamous around here for swimming against the stream.  Other people see what they want to see.  Sometimes that disturbs them.  I am of no help there.

    [/quote]

     

    Dear Mr Dogs, your contra arguments are both appreciated and valued. Some years ago you offered a cogent criticism of my position on nuclear power that encouraged me to change my world view. I'm offering thanks and a request that you keep swimming against the stream, if only to keep a check on our confirmation biases.

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  • Wed, Nov 11, 2015 - 7:44am

    Reply to #26

    Afridev

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 11 2013

    Posts: 126

    Dogs

    I second Nigel; Dogs, keep swimming against the stream. Contrary views based on deeper understanding of systems grounded in experience or being 'part of' them are invaluable to the ones 'outside' and trying to see the bigger picture. No views are neutral, but all views based on a solid foundation are potentially enlightening. Deductive capacity and common sense only go up to a certain level.

    Keep them coming Dogs.

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  • Wed, Nov 11, 2015 - 11:12am

    Reply to #21

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    A Genocide in the making.

    Prof. MacDonald claims that one of the most consistent ways in which Jews have advanced their interests has been to promote pluralism and diversity — but only for others. Ever since the 19th century, they have led movements that tried to discredit the traditional foundations of gentile society: patriotism, racial loyalty, the Christian basis for morality, social homogeneity, and sexual restraint. At the same time, within their own communities, and with regard to the state of Israel, they have often supported the very institutions they attack in gentile society.

    Why is this in the interests of Jews? Because the parochial group loyalty characteristic of Jews attracts far less attention in a society that does not have a cohesive racial and cultural core. The Jewish determination not to assimilate fully, which accounts for their survival as a people for thousands for years — even without a country — has invariably attracted unpleasant and even murderous scrutiny in nations with well -defined national identities. In Prof. MacDonald’s view it is therefore in the interest of Jews to dilute and weaken the identity of any people among whom they live. Jewish identity can flower in safety only when gentile identity is weak.

    http://web.csulb.edu/~kmacd/review-AR.html

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  • Wed, Nov 11, 2015 - 11:44am

    Reply to #21

    HughK

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Mar 06 2012

    Posts: 571

    One of the origins of individual rights in the Western world

    It's important not to throw out the baby with the bathwater, as revolutionaries are sometimes wont to do. How many people here disagree with this statement?

    Sect. 6. But though this be a state of liberty, yet it is not a state of licence: though man in that state have an uncontroulable liberty to dispose of his person or possessions, yet he has not liberty to destroy himself, or so much as any creature in his possession, but where some nobler use than its bare preservation calls for it. The state of nature has a law of nature to govern it, which obliges every one: and reason, which is that law, teaches all mankind, who will but consult it, that being all equal and independent, no one ought to harm another in his life, health, liberty, or possessions: for men being all the workmanship of one omnipotent, and infinitely wise maker; all the servants of one sovereign master, sent into the world by his order, and about his business; they are his property, whose workmanship they are, made to last during his, not one another's pleasure: and being furnished with like faculties, sharing all in one community of nature, there cannot be supposed any such subordination among us, that may authorize us to destroy one another, as if we were made for one another's uses, as the inferior ranks of creatures are for our's. Every one, as he is bound to preserve himself, and not to quit his station wilfully, so by the like reason, when his own preservation comes not in competition, ought he, as much as he can, to preserve the rest of mankind, and may not, unless it be to do justice on an offender, take away, or impair the life, or what tends to the preservation of the life, the liberty, health, limb, or goods of another.

    Source: Locke's Second Treatise on Government, Chapter I, (Section 6)

    This is shared common ground for most of us here, I hope, atavists excepted. It certainly expresses my values, whether the justification for Locke's view on the essential value of every human individual is religious or secular.

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  • Wed, Nov 11, 2015 - 1:01pm

    #29

    KugsCheese

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 01 2010

    Posts: 824

    Re: One Of The Origins Of Individual Rights In The Western World

    Higher ideals grafted onto prior ugliness?  Since I have been conscious, I have never seen the higher ideals at work in regular society.  I see "compromise" to protect the selfish one.   Political theater?  Dunce Presidents?

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  • Wed, Nov 11, 2015 - 1:14pm

    Reply to #29

    HughK

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Mar 06 2012

    Posts: 571

    Operation Wheelchair

    [quote=KugsCheese]

    Higher ideals grafted onto prior ugliness?  Since I have been conscious, I have never seen the higher ideals at work in regular society.  I see "compromise" to protect the selfish one.   Political theater?  Dunce Presidents?

    [/quote]

    Your description of grafting ideals onto more violent roots is a nicely conceived and compelling counter-argument to the ideal of natural rights, Kugs. I'm a big fan of gardening metaphors.

    But, here's a ray of hope.  ๐Ÿ™‚

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  • Wed, Nov 11, 2015 - 2:40pm

    #30
    jgritter

    jgritter

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Dec 13 2011

    Posts: 157

    Dogs, thanks

    Dogs, thanks for your expertise and input.

    Next question, if I may.  Was there a simple reason for an evening launch, like making a spectrographic analysis of the contrail for assessment of how completely the propellant was consumed easier, or was it timed for maximum "We've still gottum, and they still work just fine" visibility?  It seems to me that if you're going to make a "secret" missile test it would have been better to do it at 03:00 when almost no one would have noticed.

    John G.

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  • Wed, Nov 11, 2015 - 3:08pm

    Reply to #29
    MarkM

    MarkM

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    Posts: 349

    That is a beautiful video,

    That is a beautiful video, Hugh. Thanks for sharing. However, to think that those that aspire to the halls of power will have the same compassion is, in my opinion, a waste of time. A much different personality type aspires to such places.

    Again, thanks for the video. It does give me a ray of hope on the local level.

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  • Wed, Nov 11, 2015 - 3:50pm

    Reply to #21

    Quercus bicolor

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Mar 19 2008

    Posts: 190

    Nice summary mememonkey

    I don't know if this is wise on my part without doing my own research, but after reading your summary of your sources, I now trust that a summary of your own research and conclusions you came to as a result would be great for those of us with the inclination, but not the time to dig into the sources you cite. 

    Would you be willing to compile a post or series of posts that summarizes these sources, includes links to the originals, a short reading list of the most important documents to read in your opinion, and your analysis/best guess about the big picture suggested by the documents?

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  • Wed, Nov 11, 2015 - 3:52pm

    #31
    jgritter

    jgritter

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    Posts: 157

    OK, now wait a minute

    Dogs,

    In reviewing prior posts I find that you have already answered my question, though I find it difficult to believe that minimizing the alarm to civilians isn't a larger part of the equation.

    I have to smile at the idea that riding around in a nuclear submarine and launching ballistic missiles could be a ho hum house keeping chore.  Do you ever have civilians ride along?  It sounds like a blast (no pun intended) to me.

    John G.

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  • Wed, Nov 11, 2015 - 4:26pm

    #32

    sand_puppy

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 1879

    I second Quercus Bicolor's Request of Mememonkey

    It sounds like we have in our midst someone who has done homework on the Likud/Neocon connection and the process by which elements of this group have taken positions of power within our governments.  I would very much invite a summary article from mememonkey on this topic with links so that we could confirm or investigate deeper the most pertinent point.

    Knowing where a writer is coming from is so important.  So a person who is known to us and motivation and framework already familiar is SO helpful.

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  • Wed, Nov 11, 2015 - 4:36pm

    #33

    thc0655

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 27 2010

    Posts: 1446

    Martin Armstrong on current round of saber rattling

    http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/39097

    The strategy of the Obama Administration regarding Russia and foreign affairs has been a total disaster. They have achieved quite remarkably in bringing back the Cold War and placing the world at risk all for their power-plays that American citizens are ignorant about. This issue in Syria illustrates how once politicians make a mistake, they will never admit it nor will they reverse their policy. The entire Syria strategy was to overthrow the government their to get a pipeline through to Europe to compete with Russia and reduce its economy with regard to natural gas it sells to Europe. This policy has led to ISIS, the refugee invasion of Europe, and a continual support with now troops advising on the ground how to overthrow the Syrian government.. This will lead to war because this is now totally insane and Saudi Arabia is beginning to issue bonds for the government’s budget counted on higher oil prices.

    Putin has now announced that he will counter the US-NATO’s missile shield defense program by deploying new strike weapons which are capable of piercing the shield that the Democrats objected to initiated by Ronald Reagan, Putin stated publicly that that he was now developing defenses against ballistic missiles to prevent Obama from attempting to “neutralize” Russia’s nuclear deterrent. Unfortunately, Obama has one year left and that is too much time to screw the world up even more.

    Thank the Lord we have a Nobel Peace Prize winner at the helm!

    What we need is a non-politician with brains and guts. Someone who will stop the bureaucrats in the military establishment from creating World War III. Project Northwoods reveals how these people would even kill American citizens and blame it on someone else just to get their military goals.

    Northwoods

    The revelation of Northwoods after the Oliver Stone Movie has shed some light on the entire assassination of JFK. The problem with electing an outsider to Washington will be that he indeed would become a target for assassination by the insiders who see themselves as the defender of the faith, which is their agenda. This is like a policeman today. They are trained to look for the bad guys. Thus, everyone they look at they suspect is a criminal. Those in the military establishment are the same. Everything they see is a threat to their power. Presidents have become puppets.

    Sure makes it easier to believe that some in an inner circle/deep state had advance knowledge of the 9-11 attacks and took evil steps to use them/enhance them to further the warmongers' agenda.  

    But again "we the people" aren't paying attention and deserve whatever we "let" them do.

    "Welcome to the Hunger Games. And may the odds be ever in your favor."

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  • Wed, Nov 11, 2015 - 4:44pm

    #34
    Hotrod

    Hotrod

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    Posts: 160

    Dual citizenship

    I say let's rip the scab off of this festering sore right now. It has always bothered me how many dual citizens are in a position of influence in our government and financial organizations. Call me bigoted if you like, but it is a valid discussion IMHO.  Does this not lead to divided loyalties?  Can one country's best interest ALWAYS align perfectly with another?

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  • Wed, Nov 11, 2015 - 5:30pm

    #35

    sand_puppy

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 1879

    Answering Clarke's "7 countries in 5 years"

    We are familiar with the story of General Wesley Clark telling Amy Goodman of DemocracyNow that in the weeks after 9/11 the US already had plans to take out 7 countries in 5 years.  (transcript, video)  (Chris mentioned this, as have others.)

    So I came back to see him a few weeks later, and by that time we were bombing in Afghanistan. I said, “Are we still going to war with Iraq?” And he said, “Oh, it’s worse than that.” He reached over on his desk. He picked up a piece of paper. And he said, “I just got this down from upstairs” — meaning the Secretary of Defense’s office — “today.” And he said, “This is a memo that describes how we’re going to take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran.

    Pat Buchanan's article (suggested by mememonkey above) certainly addresses where the list of "countries to be destroyed" comes from.  This was very eye opening for me.

     

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  • Wed, Nov 11, 2015 - 10:03pm

    #36
    David Allan

    David Allan

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    Joined: Nov 15 2009

    Posts: 27

    3 Layers of 'consensus trance'

    Fascinating thread. It occurs to me there are 3 layers (at least) to the consensus trance.

    Level 1 is the BAU mindset we're all familiar with. Growth and progress and our consumer lifestyles will continue into the forseeable future. Technology will solve all our problems…

    Level 2 is a major theme in this discussion – Seeing through this level of the trance involves more clearly understanding the corruption of power.

    Level 3 involves the nature of personal reality. The conventional view of separate small self slowly begins to dissolve as open spacious states are experienced directly.

    I'm no expert on the last two levels though I'm increasingly aware of them. And perhaps it would be more accurate to call them facets or strands of the consensus trance rather than levels as they can be worked on separately and in no particular order.

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  • Thu, Nov 12, 2015 - 1:03am

    #37

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 405

    WW3 Analysis

    I found a some cool data earlier today that identifies the military capabilities of 125 countries or so. Chris mentioned earlier that the Chinese clone of the Russian hypersonic missile could pose a threat to US ships. Certainly true, but I think an analysis of the entire naval power of the US and her allies against the Chinese-Russian alliance would be good perspective to understand what the military differences are.

    China has like 5 subs that can launch that kind of missile where we have 18. On top of that, the combination of all the Pacific fleets together against China's fleet at present could probably make quick work.

    I would appreciate anybody's thoughts on what the alliances would be if another global conflict were to happen. Basically the blue is NATO and other countries likely to join the blue team and the red is the Chinese/Russian alliance. Everybody else is neutral.

    Rolling the mouse over a country will reveal the military potential of each country.

    https://public.tableau.com/profile/brendan8450#!/vizhome/WW3/Dashboard1

    Let me know whomever else you think would be involved because I would like to compare the differences of the two alliances.

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  • Thu, Nov 12, 2015 - 1:11am

    Reply to #37

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    1984

    [quote=Wildlife Tracker]

    I would appreciate anybody's thoughts on what the alliances would be if another global conflict were to happen. Basically the blue is NATO and other countries likely to join the blue team and the red is the Chinese/Russian alliance. Everybody else is neutral.

    Let me know whomever else you think would be involved because I would like to compare the differences of the two alliances.

    [/quote]

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  • Thu, Nov 12, 2015 - 1:24am

    Reply to #37

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 405

    Hey, it could be a useful

    Hey, it could be a useful data-driven exercise to understand the situation better unlike some of your rants about this and that. Sorry for trying to spice things up!

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  • Thu, Nov 12, 2015 - 1:43am

    #38

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Whoops

    Not a dig at you Wildlife. Just noted how close we've slipped to George Orwell's vision. Gotta have a common enemy.  

    And we've always been at war with Eastasia.

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  • Thu, Nov 12, 2015 - 1:56am

    Reply to #38

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 405

    Oh I understand now and that

    Oh I understand now and that is a great point. We are close.

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  • Thu, Nov 12, 2015 - 1:10pm

    Reply to #35

    Chris Martenson

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 07 2007

    Posts: 4548

    I think he nails it perfectly...

    [quote=sand_puppy]

    Pat Buchanan's article (suggested by mememonkey above) certainly addresses where the list of "countries to be destroyed" comes from.  This was very eye opening for me.

    [/quote]

    He nails it perfectly using the necons own words.  This is utterly disgusting from any humanitarian standpoint, and speaks of a great cultural wounds being played out, perhaps unconsciously, but no less disturbing for that fact:

    From the above link:

    The War Party seemed desperate to get a Middle East war going before America had second thoughts. Tom Donnelly of the Project for the New American Century (PNAC) called for an immediate invasion of Iraq. “Nor need the attack await the deployment of half a million troops. … [T]he larger challenge will be occupying Iraq after the fighting is over,” he wrote.

    Donnelly was echoed by Jonah Goldberg of National Review: “The United States needs to go to war with Iraq because it needs to go to war with someone in the region and Iraq makes the most sense.”

    Goldberg endorsed “the Ledeen Doctrine” of ex-Pentagon official Michael Ledeen, which Goldberg described thus: “Every ten years or so, the United States needs to pick up some small crappy little country and throw it against the wall, just to show we mean business.”

    (When the French ambassador in London, at a dinner party, asked why we should risk World War III over some “shitty little country”—meaning Israel—Goldberg’s magazine was not amused.)

    Ledeen, however, is less frivolous. In The War Against the Terror Masters, he identifies the exact regimes America must destroy: First and foremost, we must bring down the terror regimes, beginning with the Big Three: Iran, Iraq, and Syria. And then we have to come to grips with Saudi Arabia. … Once the tyrants in Iran, Iraq, Syria, and Saudi Arabia have been brought down, we will remain engaged. …We have to ensure the fulfillment of the democratic revolution. … Stability is an unworthy American mission, and a misleading concept to boot. We do not want stability in Iran, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, and even Saudi Arabia; we want things to change. The real issue is not whether, but how to destabilize.

    Rejecting stability as “an unworthy American mission,” Ledeen goes on to define America’s authentic “historic mission”: Creative destruction is our middle name, both within our society and abroad. We tear down the old order every day, from business to science, literature, art, architecture, and cinema to politics and the law.

    Our enemies have always hated this whirlwind of energy and creativity which menaces their traditions (whatever they may be) and shames them for their inability to keep pace. … [W]e must destroy them to advance our historic mission.

    The destructive and violent intent that lies at the center of every one of those statements, and a dozen others cataloged by Buchannan suggest to me that the people holding them have no place at the table of larger world affairs.  They are deeply wounded individuals carrying an enormous amount of cultural baggage, operating from a place of deeply seated fear.

    I mean what else are we to make of the fact that these people said things like "we need to pick up a crappy little country and throw it against the wall"?  Or that "we" need to go to war with someone in the region and Iraq makes about as much sense as anybody?  Seriously?  How are these people still being given the time of day in life let alone still holding serious jobs?

    If we follow their world view, all we'll get is endless conflict, and endless war.  This serves certain psychological makeups rather well, especially those that are attracted to power, but it never serves the wider human interests.

    The Israeli experiment ends very badly if that country allows itself to be led by those who seek to "win" by domination, death and destruction.  Of course, I need to say the exact same thing about my own country.

    *sigh*

     

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  • Thu, Nov 12, 2015 - 1:22pm

    Reply to #37

    Chris Martenson

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 07 2007

    Posts: 4548

    China has more than that...

    [quote=Wildlife Tracker]

    China has like 5 subs that can launch that kind of missile where we have 18. On top of that, the combination of all the Pacific fleets together against China's fleet at present could probably make quick work.

    [/quote]

    You also need to be aware of China's hypersonic ballistic missile, the DF-21 as well, which they paraded about in September's military display.  Here's a link.

    A weapon so secret China would not reveal it for years made its first public appearance in a military parade on Thursday as China marked the 70th anniversary of the end of the second world war.

    The Dongfeng (East wind) 21D “carrier-killer” missile, which threatens to reshape the balance of power in the western Pacific, has been the subject of much speculation after a stray mention last week in a Communist party newspaper ignited excitement among China defence watchers.

    The defence ministry in Beijing has been notably silent on the missile, other than to confirm in 2011 that it was in development. Western defence experts estimate that it has a range of 1,550km and that it may be able to travel at up to 10 times the speed of sound — faster than anything that could intercept it.

    Like an intercontinental ballistic missile, the DF-21D goes into orbit, but after re-entering the atmosphere it manoeuvres on to a target, making it theoretically capable of landing a large warhead on or near a moving ship. China can also make about 1,200 of them for the price of a single aircraft carrier, meaning the missiles could easily overwhelm defensive countermeasures.

    This puppy goes way up high, locks onto a target, and then comes almost straight down at up to 10x the speed of sound.  1,500 km gives China a bit of breathing room on her coasts.

    Further, China has been developing a large fleet of next gen aircraft and, it needs to be said, the US' own F-35 is a bit a dog (putting it mildly).

    This article lays out some of the realities with the summary being that even if the US manages a 3:1 kill ratio against Chinese jets, China still wins by numbers.

    Like I've been saying for a long time, whether the US is superior as a military force is not up for debate, but neither is the fact that the US hasn't been up against a quality foe in a  very long time.  Once the schoolyard bully gets a bloody nose…how many new foes emerge from the watching crowd?

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  • Thu, Nov 12, 2015 - 2:45pm

    #39

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 454

    Whose Got More?

    My gun is bigger than your gun?  Really that's pretty irrelevant.  What will do us in is a pandemic, EMP or something simple like no electricity.  I think it will be a pandemic of unknown origin in which case conventional and high tech new weapons won't matter.  Instead of what's the target it could be "where is the bathroom?" Disease has been known to stop an advancing Army in their tracks. Just a thought.

    AKGrannyWGrit

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  • Thu, Nov 12, 2015 - 3:33pm

    #40

    Wildlife Tracker

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    Posts: 405

    The Soviets certainly had

    The Soviets certainly had more in WW2. They had an estimated 20-80 million people to spare, where the US had fewer than 500k. Certainly fuel, supply, disease, and everything else lead to the German defeat on Russian soil, but those numbers are terrifying. An army of combined Russia and China is comparable to a well-armed zombie apocalypse. It would never end without the big bombs.

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  • Thu, Nov 12, 2015 - 3:43pm

    Reply to #37

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 405

    That is a scary missile

    That is a scary missile Chris. I was not able to read the FT article, but I did find this simulation video (I assume Chinese made) and starts at 1:06 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_GHE2DjsqQ

    In this simulation the US has 4 opportunities to take that missile down before mach10, and for the purpose of the demonstration all 4 anti-ballistic missiles missed. 

    What would happen in real life? Depends on how good the engineers at Ratheon are I think. 

    Also. the Chinese have a helicopter carrier already as a member of their fleet and they are in process of constructing an aircraft carrier, so it seems that even they too believe that carriers are still an important member of a fleet.

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  • Thu, Nov 12, 2015 - 4:23pm

    Reply to #37

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Re: That is a scary missile

    That’s what she said.

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  • Thu, Nov 12, 2015 - 5:39pm

    #41

    Bankers Slave

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jul 26 2012

    Posts: 513

    Made the trip to

    London on Monday to see the opening night of "Incontrovertible" at an independent cinema.  Hosted by Tony Rooke and the mother and brother of a Brit murdered in the towers attack. Most of his bones have been repatriated and to their relief, thankfully revealed that he was not a jumper!

    A fabulous motivational documentary filmed over the last 2 years in the USA and UK, the target audience being firefighters, police and military!

    I recommend this film very highly. It adds a new dimension to the truth movement and targets the awakening of those that have the ability to actually make the difference between creeping tyranny another 9/11 and or WW3…..or the locking up of those responsible and a return to a less sick society and safer world to live in! High expectations I know!

    Please contact http://www.killingauntiefilms.co.uk to order a copy of the film, copy and distribute to those that need to be targeted!

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  • Thu, Nov 12, 2015 - 7:47pm

    #42

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 405

    The numbers game

    I'm a big fan of numbers,, so I present the following military stats based on the following team compositions. I assume Mongolia and Georgia will be forced into the red team and that Syria is a functioning country. Also India, Sweden and a few other regional powers remain neutral.

     

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  • Thu, Nov 12, 2015 - 7:58pm

    Reply to #37

    Dogs_In_A_Pile

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 04 2009

    Posts: 810

    A single hull does not a carrier battle group make.....

    [quote=Wildlife Tracker]

    Also. the Chinese have a helicopter carrier already as a member of their fleet and they are in process of constructing an aircraft carrier, so it seems that even they too believe that carriers are still an important member of a fleet.

    [/quote]

    Almost.  China is not building a CV….yet.  They purchased the ex Soviet VARYAG (KIEV class hull and propulsion) from the Ukraine and have been refitting/backfitting for almost 20 years now.  It is expected that there will be an indigenous, organic construction plan based on reverse engineering soon, if it hasn't already started, with delivery of two more CVs some time around 2020.

    Once the hulls are delivered it will take decades to develop proficiency at CVBG strike and air operations.  A lot of Chinese pilots are going to splash their Shenyang J-31s in the drink before they are good.   Funny thing about building a plane to fit a platform…..if you forget to account for the physics of a ski jump deck on the bow of the LIAONING, you end up snapping the landing gear off a plane with a full fuel and weapons load.  Ooops.  I suppose you could always take off with a short fuel and weapons load and try to get business done.  That however, did not work out very well for the Japanese at Midway.

    China is not capable of conducting extended, sustained blue water carrier battle group operations.  I will retract or amend that statement when China has 11 (or more) functioning carriers, AND 80 years of practice.

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  • Thu, Nov 12, 2015 - 8:13pm

    Reply to #37

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 405

    Thanks for your military

    Thanks for your military experience DIAP. I was set to join the air force before I saw the Crash Course. With an ecology degree, I knew the environmental story, but I had never connected it to the economy. As a result, I went into crisis-mode after watching the Crash Course (thanks Chris) and did not end up joining.

    Sometimes I wish I did.

    Anyways, wikipedia says there is an aircraft carrier under construction, so that is my source of information for that statement.Usually wiki is reliable, not always. Wiki also says they are using the Liaoning as a training ship for their pilots. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_aircraft_carrier_Liaoning

    Also, I did lose a distant relative trying to land a plane on a carrier. I certainly do not have the courage for that business. You have to be an amazing person to be a carrier pilot.

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  • Thu, Nov 12, 2015 - 9:02pm

    Reply to #37

    Dogs_In_A_Pile

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 04 2009

    Posts: 810

    Wildlife Tracker

    [quote=Wildlife Tracker]

    Thanks for your military experience DIAP. I was set to join the air force before I saw the Crash Course. With an ecology degree, I knew the environmental story, but I had never connected it to the economy. As a result, I went into crisis-mode after watching the Crash Course (thanks Chris) and did not end up joining.

    Sometimes I wish I did.

    Anyways, wikipedia says there is an aircraft carrier under construction, so that is my source of information for that statement.Usually wiki is reliable, not always. Wiki also says they are using the Liaoning as a training ship for their pilots. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_aircraft_carrier_Liaoning

    Also, I did lose a distant relative trying to land a plane on a carrier. I certainly do not have the courage for that business. You have to be an amazing person to be a carrier pilot.

    [/quote]

    Wiki has conflated "backfitting" with "construction" I think.  But, since the VARYAG was pretty much gutted and had no propulsion systems, the level of effort for a backfit vs construction is pretty much the same.  It's shades of grey without the bondage and S&M…..

    Contracts have been let for two Chinese shipbuilders to start work on two "home grown" hulls based on LIAONING.  Since a lot of ship construction today is modular, they may have started and it simply hasn't reached a level of assembly that is observable yet.  Even if they have, I think the 4-5 year delivery estimate is a touch optimistic.  In any event, as I alluded to in my earlier post, a hull in the water does not constitute capability – but it does confirm Archimedes' Principle.

    You don't have to be "amazing" to be a carrier pilot…you have to be off your freakin' rocker.  Take that with a grain of salt since it comes from a guy who volunteered to serve on ships that intentionally sank themselves……..our rule of thumb was add up the number of dives and surfaces.  Divide that total by 2.  If you don't get a fraction, it's safe to open the hatch.

     

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  • Thu, Nov 12, 2015 - 10:38pm

    #43

    sand_puppy

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 1879

    What Would Tom Clancy Do?

    Just doing some wild imagining here.  I have no military experience, but I have read a lot of Tom Clancy and Robert Ludlum novels.  ๐Ÿ˜‰

    I'm going to go with AKGranny's idea here, along with Greer's Twilights Last Gleaming, Howey's Wool, and a dozen other pandemic / EMP type of war / apocalypse story lines.

    1.  One of the underdogs gets tired being tread on.  But it does not have the military power to face off with NATO head to head. But, it is clear that they are about to lose everything and decides it is better to take out the foe and go down in flames than to take it lying down.  A brilliant strategist is tasked to build an attack plan.  Elements of the plan are compartmentalized and go through intermediaries making the origin of the attack hard to trace.

    2.  Surreptitiously the underdog moves shipping containers loaded with short range missiles, into US port cities (and possibly unloads them from ships and transports the shipping containers on flat bed trucks into the USA using the normal freight delivery system).

    3.  Shipping containers are opened by "visiting art students" and several nuclear missiles are launched  high into the stratosphere where detonations produce EMPs throwing the USA back to the stone ages.  Most of the population living in cities dies, lawlessness is rampant, etc., etc.

    4.  Alternatively, a "lone deranged" microbiologists makes a highly virulent, aerosol-transmissible virus and release it at the last day of an international conference so that attendees carry the virus back to their home communities during the incubation period…….

    5.  Or, a chip maker in China offers the US military low cost high quality chip design and manufacture services for flight control and engine control computer chips of airplanes.  Only a "back door" is designed in so that they can be hacked sending a flight control instruction (like aileron full left) at a crucial moment.

    6.  Though the sailors/soldiers/airmen aboard the warships and airplanes might be well protected, their wives and children living near military bases in the US are not.  I would target the families of the warriors. I might aim for the water supply of a base, or just EMP the region.  (Dishonorable combat at its finest.)

    The elements are:

    • surreptitious pre-conflict preparation and positioning,
    • a surprise attack as the opening,
    • highly unconventional mode of attack,
    • aimed at a vulnerable point in the dominant nation, not into the strength of its military.

    Am I ready to start my next novel?

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  • Thu, Nov 12, 2015 - 11:15pm

    #44
    robie robinson

    robie robinson

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 25 2009

    Posts: 864

    SP? "next novel?"

    when can I read the first novel?

     

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  • Fri, Nov 13, 2015 - 12:23am

    Reply to #37

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 405

    Carrier Pilots

    I was going to say batshit-crazy, but I figured that would be disrespectful!

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  • Fri, Nov 13, 2015 - 1:04am

    Reply to #37

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Bird farm

    [quote=Wildlife Tracker]

    I was going to say batshit-crazy, but I figured that would be disrespectful!

    [/quote]

    Negative. To a "naval aviator", "batshit-crazy" is a complement.

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  • Fri, Nov 13, 2015 - 1:35am

    #45

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    You'd be a natural SP

    But you may not want to get too good at those conspiracy novels wink

    Ex-CIA agent says Andrew Breitbart and Tom Clancy assassinated (DC Clothesline)

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  • Fri, Nov 13, 2015 - 3:06am

    #46

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Bad data

    Point I was trying to make is that there is an open question on the topic, at least out on the interweb…so you get to do your own research if you like.

    Tom Clancy Death

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  • Fri, Nov 13, 2015 - 4:31am

    Reply to #37

    davefairtex

    Status Diamond Member (Offline)

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 3132

    thailand has a carrier too

    Just saying.  It has no operational air group, and it only leaves port once per month, and its armed with a couple of machineguns – but they do have a carrier.

    Thai media have allegedly nicknamed the vessel the Thai-tanic.  Others have suggested its just a glorified royal yacht.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTMS_Chakri_Naruebet

     

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  • Fri, Nov 13, 2015 - 4:44am

    #47

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 405

    Every country should have a carrier

    North Korea has a carrier, but it does not have an operational air group either. Just warriors and gods.

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  • Fri, Nov 13, 2015 - 6:47pm

    Reply to #47
    Luke Moffat

    Luke Moffat

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

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    Posts: 365

    Nice one, WT

    I like the anti-submarine javelin at the front. Not many carriers I've seen have those ๐Ÿ™‚

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  • Fri, Nov 13, 2015 - 8:48pm

    Reply to #47

    Dogs_In_A_Pile

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 04 2009

    Posts: 810

    Meh

    [quote=Wildlife Tracker]

    Every country should have a carrier

    [/quote]

    Except these guys.  They should not. 

    Afghanistan

    Andorra

    Armenia

    Austria

    Azerbaijan

    Belarus

    Bhutan

    Bolivia

    Botswana

    Burkina Faso

    Burundi

    Central African Republic

    Chad

    Czech Republic

    Ethiopia

    Hungary

    Kazakhstan

    Kosovo

    Kyrgyzstan

    Laos

    Lesotho

    Liechtenstein

    Luxembourg

    Macedonia

    Malawi

    Mali

    Moldova

    Mongolia

    Nepal

    Niger

    Paraguay

    Rwanda

    San Marino

    Serbia

    Slovakia

    South Ossetia

    South Sudan

    Swaziland

    Switzerland

    Tajikistan

    Turkmenistan

    Uganda

    Uzbekistan

    Vatican City

    Zambia

    Zimbabwe

    Zambia

    Zimbabwe

     

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  • Fri, Nov 13, 2015 - 9:06pm

    Reply to #47

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 405

    What about one of

    What about one of these?

    https://video-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hvideo-xap1/v/t43.1792-2/10667261_787107678021808_1063239391_n.mp4?efg=eyJybHIiOjIxODcsInJsYSI6MTAyNCwidmVuY29kZV90YWciOiJsZWdhY3lfaGQifQ%3D%3D&rl=2187&vabr=1458&oh=ddbce431185e190517ac7b46a55e2811&oe=564676A7

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  • Fri, Nov 13, 2015 - 10:30pm

    Reply to #47
    Luke Moffat

    Luke Moffat

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 25 2014

    Posts: 365

    Ah, C'mon

    I'm pretty sure Botswana has a lake. Who says they can't play?

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  • Fri, Nov 13, 2015 - 10:35pm

    #48

    Boomer41

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Nov 30 2008

    Posts: 109

    Unconventional Attack

    Sand_Puppy has it right. If an attack against the US is to have any chance of success it must be highly unconventional. In other words it will be in the form of something new and unimagined by our 'leaders'.

    However, the systems which have been put in place to 'protect' us are always a defense against something which has already been tried. The 'Shoe Bomber' caused us to have our shoes inspected by the TSA. An attempt to use liquid explosives caused a limitation on the amount of mouth-wash we could carry aboard. The whole mammoth, offensive, invasive, ineffective TSA is a futile effort to head off what, at its worst, would be a relatively minor attack.

    We would be better served if even some of the money being squandered on the TSA were instead put towards finding a cure for cancer; something which is a real threat and kills many, many times more people than could possibly be victims of aircraft hijacking.

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  • Fri, Nov 13, 2015 - 10:42pm

    #49

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Carriers are easy

    Anyone can make one…

    P.S. – Wildlife, that helicarrier is badass wink.

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  • Fri, Nov 13, 2015 - 11:30pm

    #50

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    EU

    Paris sounds bad. Wonder how the EU is going to hold together given this type of stuff on top of the economics.

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  • Fri, Nov 13, 2015 - 11:34pm

    #51

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    EU

    Paris sounds bad. Wonder how the EU is going to hold together given this type of stuff on top of the economics.
    Edit: the French just “closed their borders”, whatever that means.

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  • Fri, Nov 13, 2015 - 11:50pm

    Reply to #51

    Bankers Slave

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jul 26 2012

    Posts: 513

    Lots of immediate

    anti Muslim sentiments on the blogosphere! A measure to the extent of the brainwashed masses! Hollande has already tweeted that he knows who is responsible but will not name names at this early stage! 

    Sounds like another deadly pantomime!

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 12:32am

    Reply to #51
    Luke Moffat

    Luke Moffat

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 25 2014

    Posts: 365

    Conspiratorial?

    Not sure it's that conspiratorial in all fairness. Open borders, conflict on doorstep, uncaring politicians. The major crime here is neglect. Merkel knows it, but she's so close to being ordained (note: that was sarcasm mixed with an element of disgust)

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 12:50am

    #52

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    meh

    False flag.

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 1:43am

    Reply to #52

    LogansRun

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Mar 18 2009

    Posts: 304

    We'll know by how quickly

    We'll know by how quickly they have the answers as to "who" did it.  And how quickly they'll roll out the response.

     

    Problem  –  Reaction  –  Solution

     

    But, I personally smell a False Flag as well.

     

     

    [quote=Time2help]False flag.[/quote]

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 1:48am

    #53

    kelvinator

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Dec 25 2008

    Posts: 181

    Iโ€™m pretty upset with whatโ€™s going on in France.

    1. It so sad to have to be confronted with such brutality – the deep sadness created for so many friends and families. And also the concern, of course, is that this kind of terror attack can really start to change the quality of life in the wider world, of paranoia and needed police vigilance to terror that then theatens to make life start feeling tense. 

      So, the drums of war are sounding,
      A summer storm rolling out somewhere on the distant horizon.
      Echos of a terrible bomb in the midst of plenty.
      Freedom and good feeling blown apart,
      By a hypnotizing image of its own vulnerability.
      A violence against humanity that must be answered.

      A call to arms to clean out Syria/Iraq, the heart of crazy darkness,
      honeypot of evil, and so forth.
      Saddle up poor boys and girls,
      And keep the farce rolling onward.
      The unwillingness to reflect on the part we played
      In radicalizing the middle east or what we can do now to reverse it.
      It may be a shrewd time to buy defense stocks.
      But like a lot of things you could buy, ultimately, it doesn’t sound like a good bet. Weapons and the weapons business are part of the problem, I’d say. Others may differ, but to me it seems pretty obvious – you get enough things out there that may explode at any time and have a lot of people out there who may explode at any time, and pretty soon you might start regretting that so many are scattered all around and mixed up with each other.

      Maybe that’s why my savings/investments have just been rocking in the waves lately
      and not going much of anywhere. Too bad.

       

     

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 2:00am

    #54

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    Feeling Bad

    Feeling bad about what is happening in France is like saying that water is wet.  I am besides myself in rage at the lethal stupidity of the Idealogues. 

    Me mate Blind Freddy saw this coming. 

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 2:29am

    Reply to #54

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Yep

    [quote=Arthur Robey]

    Feeling bad about what is happening in France is like saying that water is wet.  I am besides myself in rage at the lethal stupidity of the Idealogues. 

    [/quote]

    This^^

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 2:48am

    Reply to #54

    Jim H

    Status Diamond Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1798

    There is only one play in the playbook

    Break shit. 

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 3:05am

    #55

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Pics

    Or it didn't happen.

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 3:28am

    #56

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Getting old...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F711blUIZV0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7vscOA78RU

    At 0:59-1:00 you can clearly see the man's hands are bound…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxmz8Z8ewVI

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64gK9z8HJdk

     

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 5:32am

    Reply to #56

    Jim H

    Status Diamond Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1798

    Something?

    http://sgtreport.com/2015/11/wow-cia-director-met-with-french-security-chief-and-mossad-before-paris-attacks/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxkInbEcEZ4

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 6:20am

    Reply to #56

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 405

    Nothing. Why would they need

    Nothing. Why would they need to meet, in person before the attacks and why would they do it in the country that was chosen to be attacked? That's very illogical. 

     

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 10:13am

    Reply to #56

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Illogical?

    [quote=Wildlife Tracker]

    Nothing. Why would they need to meet, in person before the attacks and why would they do it in the country that was chosen to be attacked? That's very illogical. 

    [/quote]

    Since when does logic have anything to do with any of this?

    Meh…maybe people will wake up when the vampire squid finally goes full…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCCVbClAMtI&spfreload=9

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 12:13pm

    Reply to #56
    MarkM

    MarkM

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jul 22 2008

    Posts: 349

    Yep

    Seems illogical that they would tell us WTC7 went down because it was on fire….and we would believe it.

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 1:53pm

    #57

    Quercus bicolor

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Mar 19 2008

    Posts: 190

    Why fake an attack?

    TPTB a bunch of psychopaths, right?  Why not just arrange for people to die as reported?  It's much lower risk and logistically much simpler to carry out from their perspective.  This type of conspiracy is much easier to hide.  No fake dead people.  No pesky reporters and victims relatives acting out fake roles who might eventually slip and reveal it or decide to come clean.  No crime scene to fake. 

    A real attack just requires the simple act of putting the idea in the heads and the means in the hands of people who are capable and eager to carry it out.

    It would be just downright stupid to go through all of the extra trouble to fake it and take on all of the additional risk of being found out unless they secretly just couldn't bring themselves to kill people.  There's plenty of evidence that they're perfectly comfortable taking actions that result in thousands of deaths.

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 2:10pm

    #58

    Chris Martenson

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 07 2007

    Posts: 4548

    Why France?

    Something is really bothering me about this latest attack.

    Why France?

    Why now?

    If ISIS has a true goal of creating a Caliphate in the Middle East, this sets those plans back by drawing France in more deeply and with extra commitment.  So this was not a terribly strategic move.

    It was a move of pure terror against citizens.  

    Actual terror against a country might involve taking out the key electrical substations of a major city, for example…

    If these 'terrorists' intent on a suicide mission all had passports, I will be even more concerned about the narrative. 

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 3:16pm

    #59

    Bankers Slave

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jul 26 2012

    Posts: 513

    I am waiting

    for the reaction from Israel!

    Charlie Hebdo false flag was obviously not convincing enough and this to me looks like act 2. But why France?

    Chris…your comment has my alarm bells ringing very loudly!

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 3:52pm

    Reply to #58

    pinecarr

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 13 2008

    Posts: 1085

    Speculation: A distraction? (asking for more informed feedback)

    From Jesse's Crossroad's Cafe via ZH 11/14/15:

    "About 38% Of All The COMEX Gold In Hong Kong Left The Warehouses Yesterday"

    Via Jesse's Cafe Americain,

    Roughly 21 tonnes, or 685,652 troy ounces of gold in .999 fine kilo bars, was withdrawn, net of a small deposit of 27,328 ounces, from the Brinks warehouse in Hong Kong yesterday.

    ….

    To put that into some perspective, that is the same amount of all gold in the entire JPM warehouse in the US.

    Now compared to the Comex US, in which very little gold bullion actually changes hands or goes anywhere, that is a huge number.  But Hong Kong is typically seeing large inflows and outflows of gold.  Because that is how the precious metals market has been manifesting in Asia since about 2007: not with endless chains of paper just changing hands in a grand game of liar's poker, but with the physical exchange of bullion.

    I don't have enough knowledge of the gold market to know if that kind of a gold movement justifies a distraction, so this is purely speculative (i.e., tossing this ball up in the air for those who do know more about the physical gold market to comment on whether this is a big enough move to "require" a distraction).

     

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 3:56pm

    Reply to #58

    kelvinator

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Dec 25 2008

    Posts: 181

    RE: Why France?

    As I think you and others may be implying as a possibility, France may have been a target of opportunity since it has a large, disaffected immigrant population that disproportionately left the country to fight for ISIS.  We don't know that this was done by French citizens identifying with ISIS, though I saw a headline that at least one was French.  France is the largest source of ISIS recruits, according to this:

    http://www.businessinsider.com/isis-is-recruiting-westerners-countries-2014-8

    As for strategy, this seems more pure terror than strategic.  Ideologues all seem to show various degrees of stupidity, and as Arthur says, these people are extreme, crazed ideologues.  And, predictably, they evoke a counter response from ideologues around the world.  Apparently, Ted Cruz, a Republican thoughtleader/ideologue wants to start bombing with less concern for foreign civilian populations, wherever they may be – I don't think he's specified.  

    All of this reminds me of the terrible raw videos of ISIS originally coming into towns in northern Iraq and just shooting random people they pass who happen to be walking down the street.  Ted Cruz' similar solution has already been tried for decades in Iraq and elsewhere – hundreds of thousands dead, thousands in "collateral damage".  Millions of lives affected.  Pervasive hopelessness and loss.  And now desperate attempts by crazed ideologues to carry the fight back to places where it hurts and disrupts.  Go, occupy Syria.  Boots on the ground.  Declare victory and be a target for IED's and endless financial drain, endless wounded veterans year after year as the local ideologues melt back into the occupied population.  Been there, done that.

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 4:18pm

    Reply to #58
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1612

    cmartenson wrote:Something

    [quote=cmartenson]

    Something is really bothering me about this latest attack.

    Why France?

    Why now?

    If ISIS has a true goal of creating a Caliphate in the Middle East, this sets those plans back by drawing France in more deeply and with extra commitment.  So this was not a terribly strategic move.

    It was a move of pure terror against citizens.  

    Actual terror against a country might involve taking out the key electrical substations of a major city, for example…

    If these 'terrorists' intent on a suicide mission all had passports, I will be even more concerned about the narrative. 

    [/quote]

    Bombing a substation wouldn't scare anyone, it would just spoil the evening's TV. I can remember the IRA bombing a gas works, but other than that I can't think of an incident that didn't involve soft targets – pubs, shopping streets etc., or political targets.

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 4:25pm

    Reply to #58

    Bankers Slave

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jul 26 2012

    Posts: 513

    Just remember

    that the British security services were working within the IRA. Remember the "Birmingham 6" and the "Guildford 4".

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 4:45pm

    Reply to #58

    davefairtex

    Status Diamond Member (Offline)

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 3132

    keeping things going

    My strong sense is that the goal of hard liners on both sides is to keep the stress level high without doing actual damage.  ISIS and everyone else need each other.  Without ISIS, war on terror might be getting stale.  TV shows introduce new characters, and now we have a new and even more dangerous terror foe to keep people interested – and renews the justification for those NSA wiretapping programs targeted at US citizens.

    Likewise, for ISIS, beheading people gets old.  Plus, all that beheading is happening in the middle east.  You need something new to excite your recruits.  But if you really damage the target country, you might actually draw a serious response that risks your own survival, but if you just execute a soft target attack, the hardliners on both sides win.

    Kind of like the DEA and the drug cartels need each other.  If drugs were suddenly legalized, they'd both lose big time.

    But on top of that, I think the price of oil, the sudden avalanche of migrants/refugees, Ukraine, Syria, the Iran nuclear deal, Russian intervention, and now this attack in Paris – they're all tied together somehow.  This isn't just blowback.  Blowback is Iran having a revolution in 1979 where the crowds are all chanting "death to america."

    This – its about three levels of complexity higher.

    That's just my sense.

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 4:48pm

    Reply to #58
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1612

    Bankers Slave wrote:that the

    [quote=Bankers Slave]

    that the British security services were working within the IRA. Remember the "Birmingham 6" and the "Guildford 4".

    [/quote]

    One of the IRA’s most senior former officers has admitted for the first time that the terror group was responsible for the Birmingham pub bombings.

    Kieran Conway, who was head of the IRA’s intelligence-gathering department in the 1970s, broke a 40-year silence by the organisation to make the admission.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ex-ira-chief-admits-terror-group-4775000

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 4:52pm

    Reply to #58

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 405

    Terrorism for Dummies

    Deadly chemicals in the water supply. There is very little security at most water treatment plants, and the amount of chaos, death, and fear created by doing this throughout many rural college towns, small cities, etc. would be overwhelming. Every shower, meal, snack, and drink would become an opportunity for death.

    It would take a while for people to figure out what's wrong as well.

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 5:31pm

    Reply to #58
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1612

    Bankers Slave wrote:that the

    ISIS statement of responsibility – answers why France and Germany, why a rock venue.

    https://ent.siteintelgroup.com/Statements/is-claims-paris-attacks-warns-operation-is-first-of-the-storm.html

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 5:48pm

    #60

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Perception & Reality

    Perception

    An Israeli Newspaper Photoshopped Female Leaders Out Of The Charlie Hebdo March (Business Journal)

     

    Reality

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 5:55pm

    #61

    Time2help

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    Posts: 2230

    You turn the world on it's head

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 6:00pm

    #62
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    They're a bit late calling

    They're a bit late calling the French crusaders, they became a secular republic a long time ago. The US and Russia are more likely to use crusader rhetoric in their military adventures.

    But ISIS have a (submissive) place for people of the book in their world view, whereas atheists and secularists have none, so maybe the more mature values of the French state make them a more likely target.

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 6:01pm

    Reply to #58

    Wildlife Tracker

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    Disclaimer

    Hugh sent me a nice private message regarding my earlier post and made a good point.

    Here is my disclaimer:

    I really think that is a threat to all developed countries, and I really hope the government recognizes this and does something about it! Better security measures at our water treatment plants would really make me feel safer! Thanks!

    That post was not there to provide "ideas" to terrorists, but rather to identify a major vulnerability in the water system that should be mended!

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 6:02pm

    Reply to #58

    kelvinator

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

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    Posts: 181

    Actual Damage

    I think there's a lot to your comment, Dave, that extremists on all sides need each other and that the interactions are complex, and agree with much of what you said.  But I think it's also true that this was actual damage in a way that holds the potential to push the status quo towards further disruption at a social level.  It seems to me less intelligent and strategic act by the players than a gradual ramp in general chaos and response that increases risks of destabilizing alliances and finance in Europe and elsewhere.  There's hope that this attack may be somewhat isolated and that life may settle down again, as after the attack by Al Queda on trains in Spain many years ago, or the IRA bombings in England.  But the risk of a rise of destabilizing extreme political parties in western countries seems to be growing and supported by this.  These can easily affect policy beyond war policy – and may or may not work well for "the powers that be".

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-14/frances-far-right-party-calls-nation-re-arm-itself-revoke-muslims-passports-eradicat

    In France, this AM, Marine Le Pen, France's far-right leader who's contemplating a run for French president in 2017 and leading for that office in some polls, apparently called for a series of measures against Moslems in France, etc.  Regional elections in France are happening at the beginning of December.  Of course, she's also been calling for withdrawal of France from the Euro – which ultimately is a dying currency, IMO.  But if she were elected with that agenda on a wave of anti-immigrant sentiment, prepare for a wild ride sooner instead of later.  My point is, whether we agree with the outcome or not, isolationist agendas and xenophobic forces may be accelerated by these events if they continue, and may not follow TPTB script.  

    I've predicted for awhile that a major likely disruption of global finance may come as countries become more isolated from each other and act more and more out of individual interest, creating more and more dissonance and economic/political conflict rather than the "clean economic machine" TPTB are working on with central banker coordination and the corporate agenda of a "Trans-Everywhere Partnership" ruled world.  It's already happening with the US ready to raise interest rates as the rest of the world says don't do it and loosens rate policy.  If national policy and self-interest divergences grow, it seems likely that social and financial dissonance and disruption will grow; the coordination that has maintained the current, artificial economy that feeds and is favored by TPTB will become increasingly difficult.

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 6:06pm

    #63

    Time2help

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    Perception & Reality

    Perception

    Reality

    https://youtu.be/e2E_m7l2Rww?t=15

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 6:30pm

    #64

    Chris Martenson

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    Look at the headlines...

    This too was a "made for TV special" that was designed for maximum psychological impact on the little people, but which did no actual damage to the country.

    9/11 was the same way, just larger in scale.

    Any of us with slightly active imaginations could imagine a wide variety of things that could be done to economically or strategically harm a country with relatively high chances of success and low cost.

    But those things never seem to happen.  Instead it's always soft targets, innocents,  blood and not much else besides a crippling psychological fear among the masses that is then used by current politicians to consolidate power and/or ram through unpopular laws that further erode rights and concentrate wealth and power.

    Wash, rinse, repeat.

    Exhibit A, this mornings headline in The Guardian:

    Paris attacks leave France in trauma, fearing for the future

    Not bad … they managed to work in three powerful, emotion-evoking words in a ten word sentence. "Attacks"  "Trauma"  "Fearing"

    Lots of that going around…the MSM knows its role…play on the fear and whip it higher.  Nobody will ever lose a promotion or their job for doing so.

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 6:45pm

    #65

    Jim H

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    Problem, Reaction, Solution....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gPOJ7AmttQ

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 7:03pm

    Reply to #64

    Wildlife Tracker

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    Great point Chris. Very

    Great point Chris. Very insightful.

    France actually has the strongest military in comparison to the rest of Europe, so I think it makes sense "why France" if you wanted to unite Europe to fight this ISIS creature.

    France is now at war, and maybe the rest of Europe will follow?

    Here is a great headline/article

    Paris attacks: We are all at war with Islamic State now. We must not back down

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11995698/We-are-all-at-war-with-Isis-now.-We-must-not-back-down.html

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 7:20pm

    Reply to #64

    Jim H

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    Chris is batting 1000....

    Chris said,

    If these 'terrorists' intent on a suicide mission all had passports, I will be even more concerned about the narrative.

    Of course……

    http://news.nationalpost.com/news/assailant-in-paris-attacks-had-syrian-passport-and-passed-through-greek-island-of-leros-greece-official

    A Greek official says one of the assailants in Friday’s terrorist attacks in Paris whose Syrian passport was found at the scene crossed into the European Union through the Greek island of Leros in October.

    Citizen Protection Minister Nikos Toskas, in charge of police forces, has released the following statement: “On the case of the Syrian passport found at the scene of the terrorist attack.

    “We announce that the passport holder had passed from Leros on Oct. 3. where he was identified based on EU rules… We do not know if the passport was checked by other countries through which the holder likely passed….

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 7:29pm

    #66

    sand_puppy

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    Spotting government sponsored pseudo-terrorism.

    Peter Dale Scott, Daniel Ganser and Dimitri Orlov have written on this topic on several occasions.  (I’m coming from memory here as I start work shortly and don’t have time to chase down the references.)  As the explanation of the Paris event unfolds, there are some characteristics to watch for.

    Rate at which the “explanation” is discovered

    1.  In a crime, leads must be followed, data gathered, people interviewed etc.   The story is uncovered gradually.

    2.  With a psyop, the story is presented in its entirety immediately, and years of subsequent investigation (even when contradictions are discovered) do little to alter it.  In the early hours, the traumatize populous is hungry for answers and not yet thinking clearly about the possibilities for who could do this and who might benefit.  They are fed the story of what happened.  And they swallow it.  Sometimes the “evidence” emerges in such an orgy, that it is clear that it was planted.  Examples:  Consider how the FBI had identified the 9/11 hijackers and “solved the crime” (by discovering Atta's brief case) by 10:06 AM one full minute before NORAD became aware that a fourth jet had been hijacked at 10:07 AM.  Compare the NYT cover story written 3 days after 9/11 with the 9/11 Commission report written years later.  Despite many inconsistencies (such as the discovery that 6 of the 19 hijackers are currently living) nothing changed the broad strokes of the story –including the hijackers’ identities.

     

    Availability of evidence

     

    1.  With a criminal investigation, lots of little clues are gathered, photographs taken and people interviewed.  A paper trail of how the story was assembled exists.  Hard evidence is gathered and can be reviewed by the interested.

    2.  In a psy-op, publicly available physical evidence is sparse.  Physical evidence is minimal, almost like a “spice” added to a main dish, which is the verbal narrative.   The psy-op offers primarily a verbal description of the event, analogous to a radio play,  sprinkled with a few sound effects (evidence).

    Hard evidence that AA 77 hit the pentagon. 

    Sequestration of hard evidence

    1.  In a criminal case, evidence can be reviewed by the public.

    2.  During psy-ops,  evidence is sequestered behind a commission, special prosecutor, sealed for national security or to protect the dignity of the victims, or simply “lost.”  A couple of examples:  No video from pentagon security cameras of the incoming AA plane are public, surrounding businesses with security cameras looking towards the pentagon had their video tapes confiscated immediately by the FBI, audiotapes of the air traffic controllers conversations on the morning of 911 were confiscated and lost, the Zapruder film of Kennedy’s assassination was “lost” for 10 years while the story that JFK’s head was thrown violently forward by the gunshot was universally circulated.  When the MH-17 jet was shot down over Ukraine, the audiotapes of the air traffic controllers instructing it to change course to fly directly over a war zone were “lost” and the black box was shipped to the Netherlands “for analysis” — then never released.   Philip Zelikow was able to obstruct investigation into 9/11 using his role as head of the investigation.

    Inconsistencies in the evidence will be discovered (but completely ignored)

    1.  In a criminal investigation, completely incompatible evidence rules out the conclusion.

    2.  In a state sponsored terrorism/crime/psy-op, incompatible evidence is ignored.  There are so many hundreds of examples here I really don’t even know where to start.  One simple example, detectives know that there are characteristic blood splatter patters with gunshots of given calibers, velocities and angles.  In psy-ops, this level of detail can be completely ignored.  We are guided to accept the general narrative, and inconsistent evidence should be disregarded.  The trip wire of “crazy internet conspiracy theorist” has been laid to discourage review of inconsistent details.

    The event all seems to funnel towards a goal:  greater centralized control

    1.  Crimes benefit the perpetrator.

    2.  Psy-ops are frequently harmful to the designated patsy but benefit those who desire to establish a global “overly organized society.”  A solution is offered to prevent this type of trauma in the future that includes transfer of more power to the MIC/deep state.  (You can read a glimpse into the unfolding plan here in Catastrophic Terrorism.  Look at the participant list in this series of conferences.)

    So watch for:

    1.  Pre-written narrative, immediately known, fed to and swallowed by the traumatized populous

    2.  Sparse physical evidence, but a fully developed story

    3.  Hard evidence sequestered.

    4.  Inconsistent evidence ignored (tripwire “crazy internet conspiracy theorist”)

    5.  All leading to an offered solution that moves the world towards an overly organized society.

     

    Lets see what happens next.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 7:55pm

    #67

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

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    Posts: 2230

    Pseudo-Terrorism

    Synthetic Terrorism

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 8:20pm

    Reply to #64
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    cmartenson wrote:This too

    [quote=cmartenson]

    This too was a "made for TV special" that was designed for maximum psychological impact on the little people, but which did no actual damage to the country.

    9/11 was the same way, just larger in scale.

    Any of us with slightly active imaginations could imagine a wide variety of things that could be done to economically or strategically harm a country with relatively high chances of success and low cost.

    But those things never seem to happen.  Instead it's always soft targets, innocents,  blood and not much else besides a crippling psychological fear among the masses that is then used by current politicians to consolidate power and/or ram through unpopular laws that further erode rights and concentrate wealth and power.

    Wash, rinse, repeat.

    Exhibit A, this mornings headline in The Guardian:

    Paris attacks leave France in trauma, fearing for the future

    Not bad … they managed to work in three powerful, emotion-evoking words in a ten word sentence. "Attacks"  "Trauma"  "Fearing"

    Lots of that going around…the MSM knows its role…play on the fear and whip it higher.  Nobody will ever lose a promotion or their job for doing so.

    [/quote]

    If designed to draw further miltary action, diverting money away from civilian spending to miltary, then maybe that is the infrastructure damage ? I'm not an economist, but I assume that several trillion spent on post 9/11 wars means a large diversion of funds literally going up in smoke.

    If we count as a rough figure £500,000,000 for a new hospital, then the 60 billion war cost for the UK means 120 new hospitals that can't get built.

    So, I don't know, is this actually a better way to attack infrastructure than directly bombing a waterworks or whatever ?

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 8:50pm

    Reply to #64

    davefairtex

    Status Diamond Member (Offline)

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    Posts: 3132

    who benefits?

    Marine Le Pen.  Muslim immigrants = dead french people in paris.

    Anyone who wants less Europe, a revocation of the Shengen Agreement, and a reimposition of border control.  If all those migrants weren't enough to make you nervous, a bunch of people with AK-47s will appear to drive the point home.

    European military and intelligence services.  World is once again a dangerous place, and you need us to keep you safe.

    ISIS.  Success brings more recruits.  Flashy op spreads the brand far and wide.  As a muslim you are required to obey the caliphate.  Or something like that.

    Russia.  Less Europe means Russia has an easier time dealing with all the smaller eastern european powers who fled Soviet domination.

    I had a strong feeling that the whole migrant/refugee issue might be the black swan that would blow the Eurozone up.  Now I'm almost sure.  This Paris attack is just one of the moves leading towards the endgame.

     

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 9:48pm

    #68
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Syria- reduced rainfall -

    Syria

    – reduced rainfall

    – turkish and Iranian dams reduced river flow

    – aquifer depletion

    – unsustainable agriculture practice

    – migration to cities

    – population and environment stress

    – war more likely

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jay-famiglietti/water-and-the-roots-of-vi_b_3884175.html

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/02/global-warming-worsened-syria-drought-study

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 9:48pm

    #69

    Time2help

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    By way of deception...

    [quote]"Oh what a tangled web we weave,
    When first we practise to deceive!"
    ~ Sir Walter Scott[/quote]

    Whatever they are going to do here will be orders of magnitude worse.

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 10:19pm

    #70

    Chris Martenson

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    Posts: 4548

    Some important context

    I rather doubt we are ever going to know what happened in Paris, although there will be a definitive narrative.

    But to (pre)counter that narrative, which will be along the lines of “radical Islam bad, westerners good” there’s some context here that we should keep front and center.

    First, there’s this:

    We, the West, overthrew Saddam by violence. We overthrew Gaddafi by violence. We are trying to overthrow Assad by violence. Harsh regimes all — but far less draconian than our Saudi allies, and other tyrannies around the world. What has been the result of these interventions? A hell on earth, one that grows wider and more virulent year after year.

    Without the American crime of aggressive war against Iraq — which, by the measurements used by Western governments themselves, left more than a million innocent people dead — there would be no ISIS, no “Al Qaeda in Iraq.”

    Without the Saudi and Western funding and arming of an amalgam of extremist Sunni groups across the Middle East, used as proxies to strike at Iran and its allies, there would be no ISIS. Let’s go back further.

    Without the direct, extensive and deliberate creation by the United States and its Saudi ally of a world-wide movement of armed Sunni extremists during the Carter and Reagan administrations, there would have been no “War on Terror” — and no terrorist attacks in Paris tonight.

    Again, let’s be as clear as possible: the hellish world we live in today is the result of deliberate policies and actions undertaken by the United States and its allies over the past decades. It was Washington that led and/or supported the quashing of secular political resistance across the Middle East, in order to bring recalcitrant leaders like Nasser to heel and to back corrupt and brutal dictators who would advance the US agenda of political domination and resource exploitation.

    The open history of the last half-century is very clear in this regard. Going all the way back to the overthrow of the democratic government of Iran in 1953, the United States has deliberately and consciously pushed the most extreme sectarian groups in order to undermine a broader-based secular resistance to its domination agenda.

    (Source – Salon – Chris Floyd)

    When you blow up a lot of places, and get rid of the existing power structures by removing “tyrants” and then fund the radical extremists, then what happens next should really surprise nobody.

    “Blowback” is one term for it, but even there we have to be careful because there’s lots of motivated actors across the entire spectrum from solo operators to groups to nation-states who “benefit” from violence.

    I mean, heck, it was only last May that we read about this:

    France delivered weapons to Syria rebels, book reveals

    May 6, 2015

    French President Francois Hollande admitted to delivering weapons to Syrian rebels in 2012 despite an embargo, according to a new book coming out in France this month.

    "We began when we were certain they would end up in the right hands. For the lethal weapons it was our services who delivered them," Hollande told author Xavier Panon in an interview in May last year.

    The book by the journalist specialising in diplomatic and military issues, is entitled "In the corridors of French diplomacy".

    Panon wrote that France delivered canons, machine guns, rocket launchers and anti-tank missiles to the rebels fighting Bashar Al-Assad's regime in an uprising that has turned into all-out civil war and drawn in thousands of foreign jihadists.

    The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights says over 200,000 people have been killed in the fighting.

    Panon said the weapons delivered in the second half of 2012 were aimed at aiding the rebellion as opposed to having a decisive effect on changing the course of the conflict.

    At the time an European embargo on weapons was in place since June 2011. It was lifted in May 2013.

    Until now, France has only admitted to delivering non-lethal weapons to the rebels such as bullet-proof jackets or night-vision goggles.

    So France was responsible for many, many more Syrian deaths than it has now suffered on its own soil. In the world of biased reporting, we are supposed to believe that the attacks in France were horrible, while the deaths in Syria, many of them involving innocents, were both excusable and ignorable.

    But death and mayhem is awful wherever it happens and France, like most or all of NATO, has blood on its hands for its role in fostering war in the Middle East.

    Perhaps France might want to engage in a little self-examination along with its push for revenge? Doubtful, as few countries have that collective capability – the energy of war and retribution are so much more powerful at the political level than the offerings of reason and peace.

     

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  • Sat, Nov 14, 2015 - 11:52pm

    Reply to #58

    Bankers Slave

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

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    Posts: 513

    MMMMMM anyone

    of us could have written that statement.

    What I dont get is the previously professionally shot alleged beheading footage that was broadcast all over the mainstream months ago. But now this alleged ISIS atrocity is followed up by a statement only.

    Surely something a little more convincing would have been the order of the day!

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  • Sun, Nov 15, 2015 - 1:13am

    Reply to #58

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

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    Motives

    1. France said it was going to Recognise Palestine.
    2. France said that they would not sign the TPP.

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  • Sun, Nov 15, 2015 - 1:38am

    #71

    Time2help

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    Posts: 2230

    meh

    Massive war is coming.

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  • Sun, Nov 15, 2015 - 4:04am

    #72

    Jim H

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    Posts: 1798

    One more to check off.....

    There was an exercise planned in Paris on Friday….

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcBijXic0dE

     

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  • Sun, Nov 15, 2015 - 6:32am

    #73
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Interesting. I just had a

    Interesting. I just had a look at SGT report and it's a christian op. A protestant one judging by the way it goes on about the Jesuits and Jews.

    Sorry but I find it difficult to take conspiracy seriously when the proponent believes that a supernatural being is behind every shadow. The whole outlook of Christianity is paranoid, conspiratorial and obsessed with social control.

    Really, the video maker is trying to use public fear for his own control agenda, which would be deeply cynical if it wasn't done by a true believer.

    Interesting though, brings to mind the anti-modernist Christian Breivik massacre.

    https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aftenposten.no%2Fnyheter%2Firiks%2FTrente-pa-Utoya-scenario-22-juli-6285004.html&edit-text=&act=url

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  • Sun, Nov 15, 2015 - 8:58am

    Reply to #73

    mememonkey

    Status Member (Offline)

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    Posts: 100

    Different constructs same elephant

    [quote=Carbon Blob]

    Interesting. I just had a look at SGT report and it's a christian op. A protestant one judging by the way it goes on about the Jesuits and Jews.

    Sorry but I find it difficult to take conspiracy seriously when the proponent believes that a supernatural being is behind every shadow. The whole outlook of Christianity is paranoid, conspiratorial and obsessed with social control.

    Really, the video maker is trying to use public fear for his own control agenda, which would be deeply cynical if it wasn't done by a true believer.

    Interesting though, brings to mind the anti-modernist Christian Breivik massacre.

    https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aftenposten.no%2Fnyheter%2Firiks%2FTrente-pa-Utoya-scenario-22-juli-6285004.html&edit-text=&act=url

    [/quote]

    I disagree

    Listening to the same report, I did not get the 'hardcore Christian vibe' that you are describing.  Yes there were a few Christian references, that signaled the authors belief system but the James Bond Spectre' global crime syndicate analogy was perhaps stronger than any  religious construct proffered.

    As Sand Puppy and others have often mentioned here, having an Integral framework or road map is a useful tool for understanding the context of the entire spectrum of belief systems and developmental levels  that exist.    People like the author of the piece, all describing the same thing from their own relative frame of reference. Think of the parable of the blind men describing the elephant.

    By rejecting their analysis because some elements of their belief system contradicts your own internalized belief system you are in danger of throwing the baby out with the bath water as the saying goes.  

    There are clearly deep state level operations that are coordinated globally and false flag events are staged to advance political and geo strategic initiatives.   The evidence is overwhelming if you bother to sift through it rather than accept the main stream narratives generated by the media which of course are the primary objective of these types of false flag events. 

     This report references the ' dry run or coincidental exercise' aspect of these false flags.  Which by virtue of it's continued appearance is apparently a component of the emerging signature for these actions.   That is useful information and whether the author is a Christian or a Pastafarian, does not negate the utility of that observation.

    Even within broad categories like the Abrahamic trifecta of Christianity, Islam or Judism   there exist a full spectrum of developmental belief structures,  which make your broad statement that all of Christianity is a paranoid social control mechanism as ludicrous as it is binary.  I am not a Christian,  but I believe Christians can have useful information and opinions.

    I don't believe there is a unified cabal of ' Jewish bankers birthed with the house of Rothschild with a globalist imperative working for one  world government.' and this cabal is ' behind all these events'  but I sure as shit understand why an increasing number of people believe that. Just as I understand why the man on the street in Tehran thinks of the US is the Great Satan.

     I  reject that notion because my understanding of human nature and political organization tell me that level of unity can not exist across time and with a  consistency of purpose that presupposes that level of granularity for such a  described conspiracy.   There are too many competing agendas across all the strata of the elite. 

    However that does not mean there are not:

    Cohesive interest groups working towards aspects of that type of construct.

    An ethnically disproportionate representation of Jewish people in the high level /central banking system

    Organized and ongoing Criminal racketeering within the banking system.

    Massive governmental  regulatory capture by the banking system

    A synergistic collusion between the military industrial complex, banking interests and the compromised organs of National governments  which lead to unnecessary, illegal wars and interventions.

    A plutocratic corporatist and Zionist agenda driven  stranglehold on mainstream media which shape public narratives.

    A high level of cooption of all branches of US government with the interests of Israel.

    False flag events of a grand scale that are designed to effect geopolitical initiatives such as fragmenting and weakening of Middle East states, the destruction and manipulation of which are (by the ascendant political party of Israel) considered to be an imperative  and which coincidentally are of global energy significance in the balance of power amongst the US, Russia, China and Europe.

    I don't know what the origins of the Paris Attacks are,  but it would not surprise me to see the emerging  narrative be the justification of an escalation against Assad disguised as an anti ISIS initiative. complete with the generalized GWOT memes that need to be consistently renewed with the blood of innocents.

     

    mememonkey

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

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  • Sun, Nov 15, 2015 - 9:47am

    Reply to #73

    HughK

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Mar 06 2012

    Posts: 571

    Mememonkey's post

    Mememonkey,

    Great post. I concur with others here that I'd like to read more of your ideas.  I found the bullet point style descriptors of the deep state in the second half of your post to be especially interesting.

    I'm going to continue to advocate for a clear distinction between the Israeli government's defense complex role in the deep state versus potential antisemitism in the form of lumping all Jews together. If you or others think that I'm an operative because I do this, that's your prerogative, but I'd recommend sifting back through my old posts to see if the data, in that form, supports that hypothesis.

    So, when you say:

    An ethnically disproportionate representation of Jewish people in the high level /central banking system

    I would simply respond by saying that being Jewish does not equate with supporting the Israeli government's agenda in all cases, and to infer that is antisemitic. I don't think you're antisemitic, but I think that statement is.  Jewish people make 2% of the US population yet 14% of physicians are Jewish.  I would guess you'd also find disproportion representation of Jewish people in physics and chemistry. So, your point about higher proportions of Jews in the banking system is a weak one.

    Cheers,

    Hugh

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  • Sun, Nov 15, 2015 - 9:57am

    Reply to #73

    Bankers Slave

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jul 26 2012

    Posts: 513

    Somebody is organised

    on a global level with the ability to have every nation on the planet using their debt based monopoly money. The corporate planet and its public trust is bankrupted and now we fund everything with the bankster issued IOUs! Now that is powerful and you know what they say about power when its absolute!

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  • Sun, Nov 15, 2015 - 12:06pm

    #74
    robie robinson

    robie robinson

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 25 2009

    Posts: 864

    come on yawl

    "God made man in his image, man has been returning the favor ever since." Pascal?

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  • Sun, Nov 15, 2015 - 12:18pm

    #75
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1612

    Sure it's paranoid. The

    Sure it's paranoid. The fundamental of every christian sect is that several unseen and influential (more than several if you include angels and demons) are vying for control of human destiny. God is omnipotent and omniscient, the devil does things and runs back to hell, there's an invisible conflict of unseen prayer forces, there are demons out to possess people's minds (bit out of fashion that one), there are angelic interventions. 

    Mainly it's the god and the devil watching and intervening from the invisible realms like two massive NSA operations duking it out for control.

    I've been to plenty of church services and prayer meetings and the idea of being constantly watched and judged is drummed into people constantly.

    Christianity is a battlefield of unseen forces – for the believer, simply because somebody says so.

    I think that's pretty much all superstitious overlay on reality, and not a sound base from which to view the world – meaning if you'll believe all that you'll believe anything.

    Which isn't to say there are no conspiracies.

    But I agree that wasn't in that particular report, it's a piece of info that can stand or fall on it's own merits, it just becomes clear there's a religious agenda when you look at other videos from the chap.

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  • Sun, Nov 15, 2015 - 12:47pm

    #76

    Bankers Slave

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jul 26 2012

    Posts: 513

    The Vigilant Citizen

    http://vigilantcitizen.com/latestnews/were-the-paris-attacks-predicted-on-the-january-cover-of-the-economist/#prettyPhoto

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  • Sun, Nov 15, 2015 - 5:15pm

    #77

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Clearly it's Paranoid and Antisemetic

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  • Sun, Nov 15, 2015 - 5:58pm

    #78

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Economist Cover

    Maybe they need to show everyone what they are going to do in advance…with peoples passive acceptance giving them a "mandate" and more "power".

    Or maybe that's just what they want you to think. Sicko's either way.

     

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  • Sun, Nov 15, 2015 - 5:59pm

    #79

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Nom nom nom

    Tastes good…anyone else want any? Mmmmmm…collective guilt.

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  • Sun, Nov 15, 2015 - 6:53pm

    #80

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    A Rethink.

    I canceled my FB account. There is just so much of this dross that a man can handle.. . The illusion is totally immersive. 
     
    I don't know if I am being a coward.  Should I rush  back into the fray? What does the Big Guy expect of me in this game?  I get conflicting signals. On one hand it is obvious to me that the three headed snake that is the Semitic religion is the font of our woes. But on the other I get testimonies of sincere folk that Christ is on the other side of the veil. Can something be both the font of good and the font of evil? 
     
    It looks as though that is the case. The illusion of evil is an exercise. 
     
    What I do know is that I must unclutter my mind. A place for everything and everything in it's place.
    Oh, and that Guilt thingy.  I've got to keep it under control. It paralyzes the mind. Which is the object  of the exercise of cause. 

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  • Sun, Nov 15, 2015 - 7:06pm

    Reply to #80

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Walk away

    [quote=Arthur Robey]

    I canceled my FB account.

    [/quote]

    Best approach IMO. Just walk away. 

    It's all fractional and highly leveraged. If enough walk away, even partially, the whole thing goes…

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  • Sun, Nov 15, 2015 - 8:00pm

    Reply to #77

    HughK

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Mar 06 2012

    Posts: 571

    Duuurrrrrrrrrrr

    [quote=Time2help]

    [/quote]

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  • Sun, Nov 15, 2015 - 10:32pm

    #81

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    And the fog clears

    Paris attacks: Suicide bomber identified; ISIS claims responsibility for 129 dead (CNN)

    The French Campaign Begins: Hollande Launches "Massive Bombardment" Of ISIS Capital (ZH)

    France announces Raqqa airstrikes on ISIS (CNN)

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  • Sun, Nov 15, 2015 - 10:55pm

    Reply to #73

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Different constructs same elephant - War by proxy

    [quote=mememonkey]I don't know what the origins of the Paris Attacks are, but it would not surprise me to see the emerging narrative be the justification of an escalation against Assad disguised as an anti ISIS initiative. Complete with the generalized GWOT memes that need to be consistently renewed with the blood of innocents.[/quote]

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  • Sun, Nov 15, 2015 - 11:05pm

    #82

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    NATO

    Will NATO now become involved in Syria? The whole Paris scenario really ups the stakes it would seem…

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  • Mon, Nov 16, 2015 - 1:14am

    Reply to #82

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 405

    I feel really bad for Syria.

    I feel really bad for everyone trying to live their lives in Syria. We are truly lucky to be where we are today…. at least for today.

    Also, that was a really great post mememonkey. Thank you for communicating the feelings of many on this website.

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  • Mon, Nov 16, 2015 - 10:39am

    #83
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1612

    So I was wondering about what

    So I was wondering about what Chris was saying about the cost of direct infrastructure attack, vs the cost of fighting ISIS, and how they think about this.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/15/terrorists-isis

    And here's the ISIS strategy book – The Management of Savagery (!)

    (Not entirely comfortable downloading a jihadi strategy manual, GCHQ and all that, but it's a translation meant for academic use.)

    Anyway it looks like they have both in mind

    https://azelin.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/abu-bakr-naji-the-management-of-savagery-the-most-critical-stage-through-which-the-umma-will-pass.pdf

    – Diversify and widen the vexation strikes against the Crusader-Zionist enemy in every place in the Islamic world, and even outside of it if possible, so as to disperse the efforts of the alliance of the enemy and thus drain it to the greatest extent possible. For example: If a
    tourist resort that the Crusaders patronize in Indonesia is hit, all of the tourist resorts in all
    of the states of the world will have to be secured by the work of additional forces, which are double the ordinary amount, and a huge increase in spending. If a usurious bank belonging to the Crusaders is struck in Turkey, all of the banks belonging to the Crusaders will have to be secured in all of the countries and the (economic) draining will increase. If an oil interest is hit near the port of Aden, there will have to be intensive security measures put in place for all of the oil companies, and their tankers, and the oil pipelines in order to protect them and draining will increase. If two of the apostate authors are killed in a simultaneous operation in two different countries, they will have to secure thousands of writers in other Islamic countries. In this way, there is a diversification and widening of the circle of targets and vexation strikes which are accomplished by small, separate groups. Moreover, repeatedly (striking) the same kind of target two or three times will make it clear to them that this kind (of target) will continue to be vulnerable.

    The targets we must concentrate on and the reasons for that:
    We said that we should strike any kind of target permitted in the Sharia. However, it is
    necessary to focus on economic targets, particularly petroleum. One might say that we will
    be faced with a media campaign in which every accusation will be directed against us,
    beginning with (the charge that we) are working to impoverish and weaken the countries
    economically, and so on.

    translation was provided by the John M. Olin Institute for Strategic Studies at
    Harvard University 23 May 2006

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  • Mon, Nov 16, 2015 - 4:54pm

    #84
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1612

    Wow, did I just see a modern

    Wow, did I just see a modern European parliament sing a revolutionary song ?

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  • Mon, Nov 16, 2015 - 5:20pm

    #85

    westcoastjan

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 04 2012

    Posts: 177

    More MSM BS...

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/trending/paris-attacks-canadian-sikh-selfie-photoshop-1.3320327

    So much for integrity… if there ever was any in the MSM

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  • Mon, Nov 16, 2015 - 6:10pm

    Reply to #85

    Dogs_In_A_Pile

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 04 2009

    Posts: 810

    westcoastjan

    [quote=westcoastjan]

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/trending/paris-attacks-canadian-sikh-selfie-photoshop-1.3320327

    So much for integrity… if there ever was any in the MSM

    [/quote]

    If it bleeds it leads.  More important to be first with the story than correct.

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  • Mon, Nov 16, 2015 - 6:41pm

    #86

    Bankers Slave

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jul 26 2012

    Posts: 513

    Forgive me if its been covered,

    or if I have not been paying attention!

    France is attacking ISIS, does that equate to an alliance with Russia against USA ect or is the bombing of ISIS a b.s cover story for bombing Assad?

    Or is it more complex than that?

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  • Mon, Nov 16, 2015 - 6:48pm

    Reply to #82

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    Up there for thinking, T2H

    As someone pointed out on ZH . We cause mayhem in Syria, leading to a flood of refugees to Europe, and then we Bomb Syria.

    Gee, what could go wrong?

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  • Mon, Nov 16, 2015 - 7:04pm

    #87

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Can you say...

    …bypassed?

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  • Mon, Nov 16, 2015 - 7:08pm

    #88

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    DP

    DP

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  • Mon, Nov 16, 2015 - 8:43pm

    #89

    Afridev

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 11 2013

    Posts: 126

    Left of Bang

    Not sure if this is the right place to post this; anyone familiar with 'Left of Bang'?

    This a useful approach? Maybe useful for other PPers?

    From Michael W. contribution to Daily digest 11/16 'How To Survive A Terror Attack'

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  • Tue, Nov 17, 2015 - 12:20am

    #90
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1612

    I'll be sure to stock some tinned beans.

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  • Tue, Nov 17, 2015 - 5:15am

    #91

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    What will it be?

    The Left Brain: *numb silence*

    The Right Brain: Biological. The Ebola outbreak was a dry run – to observe the response of the masses and set the planning parameters accordingly for maximum psychological effect. Leaves infrastructure largely intact.  Nukes are too messy and unpredictable, plus the psychological effects are not as malleable. Bio fits the low budget terrorist meme better.

    Best to do a dry run:

    OKC -> 9/11

    Charlie Hebdo -> Paris Attacks

    Ebola -> MZS

    Edit: Arthur may be onto something with the vaccines. If they attempt mandatory mass vaccination, watch out.

    Lots of people are questioning Paris openly.

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  • Tue, Nov 17, 2015 - 10:25am

    Reply to #91
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1612

    Bu-u-ut

    Remember Pierre Piccinin da Prata, the Belgian journalist kidnapped in Syria a couple of years ago ?

    Here he had a chat with a European ISIS jihadi back in February

    https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Flecourrierdumaghrebetdelorient.info%2Ffocus%2Fetat-islamique-reportage-exclusif-enquete-au-coeur-de-letat-islamique-a-paris-et-bruxelles%2F&edit-text=

    – When you say that some Muslims want to live in Islam and no longer live with the disbelievers … OK. But IE does not consider the land of Islam is geographically limited. He wants to spread Islam everywhere, including in Europe. So why make hijra? Why go to fight in Syria? Why not do jihad in Europe too?

    – I would add this to what was said by my Brothers: with the restoration of the Caliphate and the call to universal jihad, things have changed considerably. Now, our place as Muslims in the obedience of the Caliph and the laws of God, it is also to serve the jihad here in France, as Mujahideen. Our brothers who sacrificed themselves in Paris have shown the way. They are martyrs who gave their lives for the jihad; and this is only the beginning of a long work of mujahideen. The West will be surprised; He will wake up in the torpor and blood. For God is certain to give the victory to his Mujahideen, whatever time it takes. What I want to say that Muslims can not fight must hijra. But those whom God calls to fight can fight here, now that the time has come; no need to go to Syria or Iraq.

    – You, for example, you're going to beat you here?

    – That I can not tell you.

    – You ready to do jihad here in France, and to carry out attacks like those in Paris in January?

    – Like I said, you do not have to know these things.

    ……and, about the Hebdo attack….

    – A Muslim friend pointed out to me that the men who attacked the writing of Charlie Hebdo, when they came out of the building, shouted "We avenged our Prophet Mohammed! They killed Charlie! ". A Muslim who hears this is shocked, she told me: "Never, we never pronounce the name of the Prophet without adding the blessing [note:" aligh Salah wa Salam "(" blessing and peace . Him ")] This is automatic; it is done automatically, presqu'inconsciemment; they say it without thinking about it … It's always like that … So I wonder what kind of Muslims were two hooded men who attacked Charlie Hebdo … "We were told many things about the attack … We said a lot of stupid things and some tried to prove this or that by diverting details … "But that detail," she concluded, "Muslims, even those who are not very religious, they is not explain: it is 'the' small detail that really throws a huge question … "What do you think?

    – The blessing … Yes, it is true that ordinarily we enunciate every time we talk about the Prophet … But these two martyrs were young; and the circumstances were exceptional. I can understand … Not that they had not "thought" to pronounce the blessing … Not that they have "forgotten" … No, it's not that … You heard me … When I speaks of the Prophet, then I say the blessing, but it's like a parenthesis I added. Some speak out very quickly, as a formula that, for some, has become something so empty of meaning it carries. I can understand that, in circumstances of war, rapid action, in the immediacy, the blessing has been evaded. It was more a battle cry that a direct reference to the Prophet Muhammad, blessings and peace be upon him.

    – So you are not among those who believe that the perpetrators of attacks on Paris would not be Muslims and that this would be a "frame-up"?

    – Mounted by whom? No. I'm not. My brothers and I are proud of this victory.

     

    Home

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  • Tue, Nov 17, 2015 - 1:46pm

    #92

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    It begins and ends with the banksters folks

    "Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws." Mayer Amschel Rothschild (1744-1812), founder of the House of Rothschild.

    "Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The Bankers own the Earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create deposits, and with the flick of a pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take it away from them, and all the fortunes like mine will disappear, and they ought to disappear, for this world would be a happier and better world to live in. But if you wish to remain slaves of the Bankers and pay for the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create deposits." Sir Josiah Stamp, President of the Bank of England in the 1920s, the second richest man in Britain.

    "I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies." Thomas Jefferson, US President 1801-9.

    "When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain." Napoleon Bonaparte, Emperor of France.

    "If the American people ever allow private banks to control issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and the corporations will grow up around them, will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs." Thomas Jefferson in the debate over The Re-charter of the Bank Bill (1809).

    "Money is a new form of slavery, and distinguishable from the old simply by the fact that it is impersonal – that there is no human relation between master and slave." Leo Tolstoy, Russian writer.

    "The modern banking system manufactures money out of nothing. The process is, perhaps, the most astounding piece of sleight of hand that was ever invented. Banks can in fact inflate, mint and un-mint the modern ledger-entry currency." Major L L B Angus.

    "The study of money, above all other fields in economics, is one in which complexity is used to disguise truth or to evade truth, not to reveal it. The process by which banks create money is so simple the mind is repelled. With something so important, a deeper mystery seems only decent." John Kenneth Galbraith (1908- ), former professor of economics at Harvard, writing in 'Money: Whence it came, where it went' (1975).

    "It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and money system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning." Henry Ford, founder of the Ford Motor Company.

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  • Tue, Nov 17, 2015 - 2:15pm

    Reply to #92

    Bankers Slave

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jul 26 2012

    Posts: 513

    Nice compilation!

    Digits, lots and lots of lovely lovely worthless digits! And you owe them all to me!

    I am waiting for an updated version from someone within the belly of the beast!

    Any good news out there? Im all eyes and ears?

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  • Tue, Nov 17, 2015 - 2:39pm

    Reply to #92

    Jim H

    Status Diamond Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1798

    Thanks T2H.. my favorite is;

    "The study of money, above all other fields in economics, is one in which complexity is used to disguise truth or to evade truth, not to reveal it. The process by which banks create money is so simple the mind is repelled. With something so important, a deeper mystery seems only decent." John Kenneth Galbraith (1908- ), former professor of economics at Harvard, writing in 'Money: Whence it came, where it went' (1975).

    I love Galbraith.  Some other good ones;

     

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  • Tue, Nov 17, 2015 - 5:00pm

    #93

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Open Gates

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44vzMNG2fZc

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  • Tue, Nov 17, 2015 - 5:01pm

    Reply to #92

    Dogs_In_A_Pile

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 04 2009

    Posts: 810

    Get Dusted?

    [quote=Bankers Slave]

    Any good news out there? Im all eyes and ears?

    [/quote]

    Yup.  I'm good friends with these guys.  They just released an EP of well known covers and it's phenomenal.  Jeremy Garrett saws the strings so well at 0:55.  That's 2015 IBMA Dobro Player of the Year nominee Andy Hall at 1:55.  Keep your head down at 2:55 for a blistering guitar break from Andy Falco.  Chris Pandolfi (Berklee College of Music) is like sweet creamery butter on the 5 string at 3:55 and beneath it all is Travis Book holding things down on double bass fiddle.

    WRT the thread topic(s), the song title is mere coincidence….

    A feast for both eyes and ears.

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  • Tue, Nov 17, 2015 - 5:03pm

    #94

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Treason from within

    โ€œA nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.โ€
    โ€• Marcus Tullius Cicero

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  • Tue, Nov 17, 2015 - 5:39pm

    #95

    sand_puppy

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 1879

    Migration Effects: Cultural Hegemony

    Cultural Hegemony definition from wikipedia

    In Marxist philosophy, the term cultural hegemony describes the domination of a culturally diverse society by the ruling class, who manipulate the culture of that society — the beliefs, explanations, perceptions, values, and mores — so that their ruling-class worldview becomes the worldview that is imposed and accepted as the cultural norm; as the universally valid dominant ideology that justifies the social, political, and economic status quo as natural, inevitable, perpetual and beneficial for everyone, rather than as artificial social constructs that benefit only the ruling class. 

    I can imagine 2 current trends could be a part of a conscious effort to engineer a cultural hegemony. 

    1.  Mass migrations mixing cultures.  Unique characteristics of a local culture (language, idioms, folk music, foods, etc) would be blurred by the newcomers.  Group identities would mean less and less.

    2.  Politically correct censorship making it illegal, immoral or rude to notice and speak of unique characteristics of peoples and groups.  Everyone is the same–a generic vanilla human being.

     

     

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  • Tue, Nov 17, 2015 - 6:09pm

    Reply to #95

    thc0655

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 27 2010

    Posts: 1446

    A generic vanilla human being?

    Everyone is the same–a generic vanilla human being.

    Oh, there you go Sand_Puppy with your white privilege committing another microaggression against people of color!  Couldn't you have said, "a generic chocolate human being," or "a generic rainbow sherbert human being?!"  Off to a re-education camp for you (and we're suspending your posting and PM-ing rights for 6 months until you are enlightened and graduate).

    I guess the agenda is: "we have to destroy America to save her."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6n4rlIHH2U

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIdBuK7_g3M

    "Welcome to the Hunger Games. And may the odds be ever in your favor."

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  • Tue, Nov 17, 2015 - 6:12pm

    #96
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1612

    Forced collective suicide of

    Forced collective suicide of Europe ? The Europe that was a pile of bodies and smoking ruins by 1945, much of which spent the next 60 years under communist dictatorship – but a few muslims will destroy it forever ? That Europe ?

    hahahaha.

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  • Tue, Nov 17, 2015 - 7:39pm

    Reply to #96
    Luke Moffat

    Luke Moffat

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 25 2014

    Posts: 365

    Living on hope

    I thought this was a limits to growth website? I had assumed everyone here viewed the world through that lens? Unless people no longer require resources? Ah, living on hope, now i get it…

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  • Tue, Nov 17, 2015 - 7:47pm

    Reply to #96

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    Forcing open the Womb.

    but a few muslims will destroy it forever ? That Europe ?

    I think that you have forgotten the all important exponential curve CB. What is the Muslim doubling time? What is the European halving time? 

    The dregs of the Europeans can be shamed into opening their wombs up to Muslim impregnation. And "poof" No more Europeans.  And no more European genius. 

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  • Tue, Nov 17, 2015 - 7:55pm

    Reply to #96
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1612

    Arthur Robey wrote:but a few

    [quote=Arthur Robey]

    but a few muslims will destroy it forever ? That Europe ?

    I think that you have forgotten the all important exponential curve CB. What is the Muslim doubling time? What is the European halving time? 

    The dregs of the Europeans can be shamed into opening their wombs up to Muslim impregnation. And "poof" No more Europeans.  And no more European genius. 

    [/quote]

    S curve

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  • Tue, Nov 17, 2015 - 8:30pm

    #97
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1612

    Kind of made half the Middle

    Kind of made half the Middle East unliveable. Does that count as genius ? I'll have to have a think about that.

    Well, I suppose the secular republics of France and Germany were against destroying Iraq, which was smart if not exactly genius.

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  • Tue, Nov 17, 2015 - 8:49pm

    Reply to #96
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1612

    Luke Moffat wrote:I thought

    [quote=Luke Moffat]

    I thought this was a limits to growth website? I had assumed everyone here viewed the world through that lens? Unless people no longer require resources? Ah, living on hope, now i get it…

    [/quote]

    I'll take you up on that. I suppose you could say that the Syrians, having run out of water, with it being snarfed up by Turkey and their own bad farming, should be able to overcome that limitation with a bit of ingenuity and efficiency measures. Bit of a war going on, though, which makes creative disruption of the desalination sector a bit tricky. And there's one of your limits.

    And then there's the way oil doesn't spurt out of virile young oil fields in America and Britain any more. They're running on viagra and coke now, and heading for a heart attack. So they have to turn the wife over to the studs of the Gulf who are still hard pumping, but somewhat into BDSM and somewhat deaf to safe words.

    50 shades of collapse.

     

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 12:11am

    Reply to #97

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    Big fleas

    Big fleas have little fleas that bite them.

    The EU is a quisling  government of Washington.  40% of the US Congress is Israeli.

    Heindrich in the tool shop has absolutely no interest in the Middle east. His interests are beer,  football and women in that order..

    And now there are people in his neighborhood who say he cannot drink beer? And have designs on his daughter?  What next?  Will they also want his bed? Will he be satisfied with football? 

     

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 12:24am

    Reply to #97

    Dogs_In_A_Pile

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 04 2009

    Posts: 810

    Yes I do....

    [quote=Arthur Robey]

    Big fleas have little fleas that bite them.

    The EU is a quisling  government of Washington.  40% of the US Congress is Israeli.

    Heindrich in the tool shop has absolutely no interest in the Middle east. His interests are beer,  football and women in that order..

    And now there are people in his neighborhood who say he cannot drink beer? And have designs on his daughter?  What next?  Will they also want his bed? Will he be satisfied with football? 

     

    [/quote]

    …have questions.  A little Experiential Learning please…..

    1.  What?  Whatever it is you meant to say in this post.

    2.  So what?

    3.  Now what?

     

    Didn't think so.  Carry on…..

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 12:37am

    #98

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    Thank you

    There are some truths that I have learned are Not to Be Uttered. But so far poetry has not been Stamped out. Or has it? 

    We take our lead from our Moral Superiors,  the USA. And They take their Instruction from Israel. All very military. 

    How does it feel?

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 12:55am

    #99
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1612

    Does anyone else find this

    Does anyone else find this article to be full of drivel ?

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/17/jihadism-western-policy-jeremy-corbyn-isis

     

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 1:25am

    Reply to #99

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    Incomprehensible drivel.

    I had a stab at his article and conclude that

    1. The esteemed reporter is resting on his laurels and
    2. His editor took a sickie.
    3. Not worth the effort to re-read it.

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 2:17am

    Reply to #97

    westcoastjan

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 04 2012

    Posts: 177

    give it a rest Arthur

    Your racist rants are overdone and not welcome. This is a great site frequented by great thinkers. I have in the past respected your opinions, but in the last year or so your bigotry/racist views has shone through loud and clear. Time to call a spade a spade. Give it a rest Arthur.

    I will not engage you further on this, and maybe the site owners will slap my hands for saying it, but your personna as the eccentric uncle of the site which has you taking liberties has rubbed me the wrong way just a few too many times. And I am not even Jewish!

    While you most certainly have the right to express your views, I personally think you have crossed the line of what is decent one too many times. I know there are many who agree with me…

    Jan

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 3:10am

    #100

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    Shaming and Name Calling.

    Popularity Has never been my strong suite Jan, nor one of my values. The Truth is far more valuable. 

    Have you ever wondered why Racist is a synonym for "Bad ( white) Guy"? Probably not.

    Since when is Love of Your own people and culture an evil?  And why does this moral injunction only apply to my people and culture when rest of humanity receives accolades for celebrating their cultures?

    This obnoxious meme has been drummed into your skull since your first children's program on TV. Therefore it is no wonder you are suffering cognitive dissonance. 

    If the facts are that 40% of your Congress are Israelis and your military are hammering Israel's enemies, pointing this out does not make me a bad white guy. In fact, your attempt at shaming me makes you a bad white girl. 

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 3:34am

    Reply to #98

    nickbert

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2009

    Posts: 260

    Arthur Robey wrote:There are

    [quote=Arthur Robey]

    There are some truths that I have learned are Not to Be Uttered. But so far poetry has not been Stamped out. Or has it? 

    We take our lead from our Moral Superiors,  the USA. And They take their Instruction from Israel. All very military. 

    How does it feel?

    [/quote]

    Arthur,

    If the US leadership takes orders from Israel, then why does Israel spy on the US much more so than just about any of America's other "allies", and even some of its enemies?  If Israel were running the show, those crucial intelligence resources of theirs would be better spent in other places and against more valuable targets, yes?

    http://www.newsweek.com/israel-wont-stop-spying-us-249757

    Uncomfortably strong influence on some of our elected leaders?  The evidence does seem to point to that.  But control over the US government?  If that were the case I don't think the security briefing/training I had a few years back would have had such pointed warnings about Israeli attempts to obtain sensitive information from the US government…

    Think about Charles Hugh Smith's essays on this and his own site on the nature and makeup of the Deep State.  Israel and its influence in US politics is just one of many facets of the Deep State.  Being a player in the Deep State does not equate to control.  Nor does it automatically involve a malign intent… if I were in Israel's shoes, though my methods and policies might differ I too would seek to influence opinions within my most important allied nation to ensure continued support and alliance.  I hope you can try to entertain this or other perspectives, as the one you appear to be operating under regarding this subject is, at best, misinformed and overly & dangerously simplistic.  Dig deep enough behind the "simple" explanations/answers proposed to a complex problem, and you usually find someone attempting deceive and/or manipulate.  

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 3:35am

    Reply to #98

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    Reply to Nick.

    While I agree that influence of politics in your country by the Deep State is a messy wrestling match, the Racial, cultural and religious identity of the Jews makes them powerful team players in this free for all that is your deep state. 

    That they spy on your people is neither here nor there. Everyone has spies and intelligence agents. They would be remarkable if they did not. 

    All that aside. Who Benefits? Who benefits from Iraq and Syria's destruction? Where is Israel? Which countries shared a common border with Israel? 

    Well be that as it may. My interest is piqued when these shenanigans impact My People and My Culture. And this manufactured refugee crisis Is impacting my people and culture.  

    So let us be clear. If there is an agenda in these missives then it is my agenda. My agenda is to protect my people and my culture.  I hope above all that my people are not so enthralled to their invented guilt that they can wake in time to defend themselves.  But Time is not on my side.

    I fear that your evil philosophy will triumph and the greatest gift to all humanity,  my culture will be lost.

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 4:53am

    Reply to #98

    Dogs_In_A_Pile

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 04 2009

    Posts: 810

    We've had this discussion before....

    Art, buddy.  Dude……

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKoLlKmQSHU

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 5:15am

    Reply to #98

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 405

    Cops killing people (Where/When/Who)

    So apparently there have been 1,046 Americans killed by cops in 2015 so far. I pulled these data and pictures from http://killedbypolice.net/

    These are some of their faces.

    Most of the killed were in July (126) and March (115)

    Most Americans were killed in California, Texas, and Florida. (notice how safe New England is)

    Despite all the racial debate about cop bias towards black people. Cops actually kill more white people than black people.

    So the lesson to be learned here is that if you do not want to die by police, you should try to be a transsexual/female Asian from Maine or North Dakota. Fall and winter months seem to also increase your odds.

    Add that to your prep list.

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 5:46am

    Reply to #98

    nickbert

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2009

    Posts: 260

    Re: Reply to Nick

    [quote=Arthur Robey]

    While I agree that influence of politics in your country by the Deep State is a messy wrestling match, the Racial, cultural and religious identity of the Jews makes them powerful team players in this free for all that is your deep state. 

    That they spy on your people is neither here nor there. Everyone has spies and intelligence agents. They would be remarkable if they did not. 

    All that aside. Who Benefits? Who benefits from Iraq and Syria's destruction? Where is Israel? Which countries shared a common border with Israel? 

    Well be that as it may. My interest is piqued when these shenanigans impact My People and My Culture. And this manufactured refugee crisis Is impacting my people and culture.  

    So let us be clear. If there is an agenda in these missives then it is my agenda. My agenda is to protect my people and my culture.  I hope above all that my people are not so enthralled to their invented guilt that they can wake in time to defend themselves.  But Time is not on my side.

    I fear that your evil philosophy will triumph and the greatest gift to all humanity,  my culture will be lost.

    [/quote]

    Oh, now the Jews are the powerful players?  But I thought you said it was the Israelis?  Which is it?  You wouldn't be foolish enough to try to conflate the two, would you?  (BTW, your 'fact' of 40% of Congress being dual-national Israeli citizens is beyond absurd and you could have verified that for yourself if you took just one minute to check it for yourself)

    Regarding Israel, the degree of their espionage against the US is entirely relevant.  You don't waste that level of espionage resources on an asset under your thumb.  Their activity goes way beyond 'keeping tabs'.

    Who else potentially benefits from ISIS activity and general strife in Iraq & Syria?  Let's see.  Saudi Arabia. UAE. Qatar. Turkey (to a partial extent).  Starting to see a hint of the bigger picture yet?

    You know little or nothing about me, and so I assume the "evil" crack is you projecting something you're seeing/feeling onto me.  I'm not threatening you or your culture or 'your people', and neither did Jan (she simply pointed out your behavior).  What is "evil" about attempting to better understand the situation, the players involved, and their roles in it?  I won't get all of the connections and details right, but I'm willing to bet my efforts bring me closer to the truth of the situation than where you're operating from.  The black-and-white, with-me-or-against-me line you gave me is the sort of thing the status quo (no matter who you think runs it) just loves to see in the population to keep it divided and distracted and squabbling with itself, is it not?

    I rather appreciated a lot of the things you've contributed here in the past, but I'm afraid you're well in the process of cashing out your 'douchebag credits':

    http://www.cc.com/video-clips/ww64nm/stand-up-christopher-titus–uncensored—douchebag-credits

    While it's sometimes tricky to tell with email and internet posts, it appears to me there's an element in your recent posts that's different from most of your other posts, something that screams "strong emotional trigger" (anger, fear, whatever).  Please take some time to allow yourself to work out of that emotional state before you post again.  Before you cash ALL the 'douchebag credits' out….

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 5:54am

    #101

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Banksters

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 6:32am

    Reply to #100
    Yoxa

    Yoxa

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Dec 20 2011

    Posts: 286

    >> when is Love of Your own

    >> when is Love of Your own people and culture an evil?

    When it turns you into a twit who spreads misinformation about other cultures.

    >> If the facts are that 40% of your Congress are Israelis …

    Logical fallacy: loaded question, based on a flat-out lie.
     

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 6:39am

    Reply to #98

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    Drugs in the US. Dogs

    Some friends of mine were kicked out of the squadron for smoking pot Dogs.

    Drugs were a decadent US thing. Shame and scandal in the family. 

    Don't measure Rhodesians with a US yardstick. 

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 6:48am

    Reply to #100

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    Yoxa

    Calm down there Yoxa. You are being led astray by your ego.

    You are suffering from cognitive dissonance.  Take a bit of time off to allow the facts to sink in.

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 6:54am

    Reply to #98

    davefairtex

    Status Diamond Member (Offline)

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 3132

    death by the numbers

    WT-

    You made the observation that cops kill more whites than blacks.  Since blacks as a percentage of the population are far lower than whites (12.61% vs 72.41%), it would be truly shocking if the aggregate number of black deaths were higher than white deaths.

    If you de-rate by the values I supplied (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States), what's the ratio?

    We can toss in asians at 4.75% too, while we're at it.

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 7:02am

    Reply to #98

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    So now I am a duushbag, what

    So now I am a duushbag, what ever that is.

    I love it when my opponents resort to name calling.

    More please.

    I have already said I am not here to be your friend. Your friendship is inconsequential. Please don't think I will  change my opinion because you have a hissy fit. 

    If you have anything more substantial than

    BTW, your 'fact' of 40% of Congress being dual-national Israeli citizens is beyond absurd and you could have verified that for yourself if you took just one minute to check it for yourself

    please present it. 

    Does one have to be a Jew to hold an Israeli passport?  An interesting question. 

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 7:09am

    Reply to #98

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 405

    You are a smart guy Dave

    Yeah I know that it should be done by percentage of the population. Same story with deaths by state. California has a very high population, so you should see more deaths there etc. etc.

    STILL more white people are killed every year. I was just saying.

    I will pull the other two years of data available and look at it again tomorrow night.

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 7:49am

    Reply to #98

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 405

    Not 40% Arthur

    Arthur,

    Just because a member of congress is Jewish, does not necessarily mean they have duel-citizenship with Israel. That's nonsense.

    Regardless…

     

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_American_politicians

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 7:52am

    #102
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1612

    Eugene Terreblanche is dead

    Eugene Terreblanche is dead can we move on from the Afrikaans white power shit now please ? Thanks.

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 7:56am

    #103

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    More scratch for that itch.

    OK I have researched the Issue of who is allowed to hold an Israeli passport.  An Israeli citizen is allowed to hold an Israeli passport. 

    If Nick comes up with the revised figures for the holders of Israeli Passports in your Congress then we will have the number of Israeli citizens who are your Masters.

    If these Congress critters have an Israeli passport but are not eligible for Israeli Citizenship,  then it all becomes much more fascinating.  I should imagine that a little quid pro quo might have taken place. A little winking and nodding.

    And as our sainted Judge Murphy said

    "A wink is as good as a nod to a blind horse."

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_sanguinis

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 8:02am

    Reply to #98

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    Thanks WT.

    Thank you for that research WT. But the issue is not how Jewish one feels but who is an Israeli citizen as I was gently corrected. 

    Who has an Israeli passport?

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 8:02am

    Reply to #98

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    Thanks WT.

    Thank you for that research WT. But the issue is not how Jewish one feels but who is an Israeli citizen as I was gently corrected. 

    Who has an Israeli passport?

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 8:02am

    Reply to #98

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 405

    Too many Christians (92%),

    Too many Christians (92% of congress compared to 73% of population), and not enough atheists (.2% of congress compared to a large portion of that 20% that is unaffiliated). Just saying.

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 8:10am

    Reply to #98

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 405

    You tell me... who has an

    You tell me… who has an Israeli passport?

    It's not FACT until you have hard evidence Arthur. A reputable source would be helpful.

    "We're all looking for validation of whatever we believe, and that includes people in the extremist community as well," he said. "So they latch onto something that they perceive to be a truth even though there's a flaw in the logic and run with it."

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/06/11/the-strange-anti-semitic-internet-rumor-that-bernie-sanders-has-israeli-citizenship/

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 8:17am

    Reply to #102

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    Thanks for raising the subject CB.

    Eugene Terreblanche, or whatever he called himself is indeed dead as you say.  

    And so are many other Afrikaaners. There is a quiet ethnic cleansing going on in South Africa.  This is the topic of conversation between  my Afrikaans friends and I. Which relative has been murdered this week? It is all very personal and immediate. 

    This Rainbow Nation is just that. An illusion.  With more red and no white. (Funny how the colors of a rainbow don't mix. )

    If you think your "white power" is going to save your bacon, reconsider. But then again, how would I know? 

    But know this. I am on your side if you want to preserve the fruits that you presently enjoy. 

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 8:20am

    #104

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    God vs Zionist Banksters

    [quote]”I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou are rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, but are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.”
    Revelation 2:9[/quote]

    [quote]”Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.”

    Revelation 3:9 [/quote]

    Holy Bible, King James Version

    Probably why they don’t care much for Christianity…meh

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 8:27am

    Reply to #98

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    Poor me.

      I am afraid it is beyond my capacities to find out the true figure.  If my source is inaccurate please correct it.  It will only take a minute I am assured. 

    In the meantime the figure stands as it is the only one we have. 

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 8:27am

    Reply to #102

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 405

    Most popular band in South Africa

    Well this is one of them, a well known Afrikaans rap group. If there is a "cleanse" getting rid of this…

    I'm okay with it.

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 8:32am

    Reply to #98

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 405

    Your source lists past and

    Your source lists past and present Jewish members of congress. It's based on the fact that they are Jewish, not whether or not they have duel-citizenship. It's a list based on dumb speculation.

    It does not stand.

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 8:38am

    #105

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    All part of the show


    Notice the little black and white fish jumping in to the boat as an offering to you-know-who? All part of the show.

    Curious, which side have you chosen?

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 8:50am

    Reply to #98

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    Thanks for the correction.

    Thanks for the correction.  It is something that I overlooked.  So we are still no closer to the true number? 

    Oh dear. I have rechecked the image. It clearly says that they have 

    Israeli and US citizenship.

    Present tense.

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 9:10am

    #106
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1612

    I thought that was the

    I thought that was the African equivalent of The Rubber Bandits for a moment.. but no, they're real. surprise

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 9:27am

    Reply to #102

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    Oh my Goodness gracious me!

    That's a bit of a giggle.  

    Lord how the mighty have fallen! There is no way these numbnuts would have been able to air that dross in Apartheid South Africa.  Beethoven it isn't.  

    That is alien to the white tribe. It looks like some import from a black American ghetto. It goes to show the effort and contortions that the white youth have to go to in order to try and blend in. It is not going to happen. 

    The high ratings probably come from the majority of South Africans.  The Bantu. They like that sort of thing. 

    Can you see now why My Ancestral Culture needs protecting?  I need an antidote.

    https://youtu.be/z0PvZGVPiJU

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 9:33am

    #107
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1612

    Well if we are into mindless

    Well if you are into mindless stereotypes you can't do better than bog hoppers vs rug heads in the World's Cheesiest TV

    https://youtu.be/p9nW9H118HU

     

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 9:53am

    #108

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    Stereotypes? CB.

    And mindless to boot. 

    Is it your argument that there is no Western Culture?  If not, then you have regurgitated some cliché that was feed to you in your education. 

    Nasty things furballs.

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 9:54am

    #109

    Bankers Slave

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jul 26 2012

    Posts: 513

    The Nation State Is The Enemy Of The People!

    Its when "The People" recognize "The Nation State" as their protector, thats when things get effd up!  

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 10:33am

    #110

    Bankers Slave

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jul 26 2012

    Posts: 513

    A franco Russian alliance from the BBC!

    What is going on?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34849063

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 1:09pm

    #111
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1612

    Quick Alan Watt test:Here's

    Quick Alan Watt test:

    Here's Alan –

    "And at the end ceremony, they showed you the oval, the oval rink or arena.  Arena comes from Aaron, of course, the priest, high priest, circle. "

    Prove it.

    On second thoughts don't bother.

    arena (n.) Look up arena at Dictionary.com
    1620s, "place of combat," from Latin harena "place of combat," originally "sand, sandy place," perhaps from Etruscan. The central stages of Roman amphitheaters were strewn with sand to soak up the blood.
    Aaron Look up Aaron at Dictionary.com
    masc. proper name, in the Old Testament the brother of Moses, from Hebrew Aharon, probably of Egyptian origin. The Arabic form is Harun. Aaron's beard as a type of herb is from 1540s.
    Jones' Dictionary of Old Testament Proper Names derives Aaron from the Hebrew word ื”ืจ (har) meaning mountain, hill (and a mountain is sometimes used as metaphor for a large group of people).
    Aaron may be associated with the Ancient Egyptian “aha rw” (warrior lion), but nobody really knows for sure. Important references to this name can be found on Exodus 28:1 and Joshua 21:4.
    Etruscan ? Hebew ? Egyptian ?
    Don't know what dictionary he's using but he should maybe share it so people can know what he's on about.
     

     

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 1:20pm

    Reply to #108
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1612

    Arthur Robey wrote:And

    [quote=Arthur Robey]

    And mindless to boot. 

    Is it your argument that there is no Western Culture?  If not, then you have regurgitated some cliché that was feed to you in your education. 

    Nasty things furballs.

    [/quote]

    Nobody seems to agree what that culture is. Greek ? Pagan ? Christian ? Rationalist ? Democratic ? Monarchist ? Atheist ? Capitalist ? Socialist ?

    I'd say the most distinctly European values are the rationalist, atheist ones, but much of the European right likes to claim Christianity as the basis of European values. The Christians and monarchists have more in common with muslims than the atheists and rationalists do. Hence ISIS reserve a place for Christians in the scheme of things, and share a common goal of moulding Europe into a reactionary religious shape.

    If you're rational you don't want any of those Judeo-Christian religions running your life.

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 2:00pm

    #112
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Posts: 1612

    Snug and Safe

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 2:05pm

    #113

    westcoastjan

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 04 2012

    Posts: 177

    Thought for the day...

    In the sky, there is no distinction of east and west; people create distinctions out of their own minds and then believe them to be true.

                                                                                                         Buddha

    The world is rapidly descending into chaos because of those believed distinctions. Silence and a lack of concerted opposition further enable those beliefs to flourish and spread.

    Silence should no longer be an option for those who care deeply about the direction humanity is heading. It all starts at the individual level, and an unwillingness to be an enabler.

    Jan

     

     

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 2:56pm

    #114
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    M<ore Muzak I love it.

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 3:12pm

    Reply to #98

    Quercus bicolor

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Mar 19 2008

    Posts: 190

    Arthur Robey wrote:So now I

    [quote=Arthur Robey]

    So now I am a duushbag, what ever that is.

    I love it when my opponents resort to name calling.

    More please.

    I have already said I am not here to be your friend. Your friendship is inconsequential. Please don't think I will  change my opinion because you have a hissy fit. 

    If you have anything more substantial than

    BTW, your 'fact' of 40% of Congress being dual-national Israeli citizens is beyond absurd and you could have verified that for yourself if you took just one minute to check it for yourself

    please present it. 

    Does one have to be a Jew to hold an Israeli passport?  An interesting question. 

    [/quote]

    OK, now he has to disprove your ridiculous implication that 40% of the US congress holds Israeli passports just because you wrote it without any proof?

    The original graphic you posted implicates at least 90% of Jews in Congress as holding dual citizenship – since there have not been more than 45 Jews in congress since at least the 110th congress.  Really?  Getting citizenship requires going to Israel and getting a special visa, not the ordinary tourist visa.  They've all done it?  The Jewish community around here has a smattering of Israeli Citizens. I haven't found any information on the web about dual citizens in congress that doesn't come from obviously biased sources.  None of what I found is backed up by anything other than the claim of the writer.  I'd say the odds of the graphic being anything other than pure propaganda from those with a deep need to find someone, anyone, to blame are way less than 1%.

    Note that in saying this, I'm not claiming that there are no bad actors pushing ultimately damaging pro-Israel policies at all costs. 

    That leads us to why you stand behind it Arthur.  I know it must be difficult to back down when you've invested so much in your claim.  I don't know what I'd do in your shoes, but I hope I would find a way to process the emotions, let go and take another look with as clear a head as I can.

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 3:32pm

    #115
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    hearts-a-bubble in the rubble

    it was love at bomb site

    Blasted by your booby traps
    I felt the blow in both knee-caps
    Your eyes did shine, your lips were fine
    And the device in your pants was out of sight

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 6:00pm

    #116
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Posts: 1612

    Elevator music

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 6:09pm

    #117

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Some focus, please

    What would be really nice is if the focus could stay on the Rothschild ZOG criminal bankster syndicate and leave the Jewish people at large out of it.
    Yeah, that’d be great…

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 6:30pm

    #118

    Time2help

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    Distraction

    All this back and forth about the Jewish people is exactly what they want. If you can’t separate the two in your mind, it’s difficult to see through the ruse.

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 6:47pm

    #119

    Time2help

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    Posts: 2230

    Focus

    A good question to ask ourselves is what is the focus here?
    Arthur – nothing but respect for you here man. But is the primary focus on a Jewish aspect to all of this helpful or harmful? What is the goal here?

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 9:33pm

    #120

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    The Goal.

    There are destructive forces at play in the world.  Surely that must be clear.

    There has been a Lot of discussion about a "Deep State".

    In order for a group of people to cooperate for as long as this deep state has existed there must be some binding force, some cohesion. Otherwise it would fall apart because of rival interests. 

    I offer the Israeli agenda.  This has caused much angst. Everyone knows a Jew. They are not bad people surely?  Hard working and contributors to civilization. How could they possibly be a destructive force? 

    The Jews have their beloved Israel back again and they are determined to keep it. Where you and I disagree is on the ruthlessness of their determination. And why shouldn't they crave their own piece of dirt?  That they have been persecuted is a cliché.  

    But where we disagree is on my equal ruthlessness in my pursuit of the truth. You are unwilling to go where angels fear to tread. But why are you afraid? I find your paralysis interesting. I seem to have underestimated the strength of your conditioning. 

    Once you experience the loss of your civilization as I have, you too will find the motivation to fight for the remaining dregs. And you too will keep digging until you unearth the font of your woes.

    If anyone else has anything useful to contribute to the nature of the beast that is attacking My Civilization I promise to attack that beast as diligently as I have investigated the Israeli divided loyalty.  

    I not only expose the the problem,  I also offer a solution.  We have got to go to the le Grange points and create new land. Land that does not stink of blood.

    Here are the words of Dr O'Neil again.

    It is important to realize the enormous power of the space-colonization technique. If we begin to use it soon enough, and if we employ it wisely, at least five of the most serious problems now facing the world can be solved without recourse to repression: bringing every human being up to a living standard now enjoyed only by the most fortunate; protecting the biosphere from damage caused by transportation and industrial pollution; finding high quality living space for a world population that is doubling every 35 years; finding clean, practical energy sources; preventing overload of Earth's heat balance.
     
    — Gerard K. O'Neill, "The Colonization of Space"
    Well,  there you have it. Read it again.  Was he right or not?  
     
    Hiding out in the hills is a completely ineffective delaying tactic. 
     
    You can get the gist of what he was trying to convey here.

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  • Wed, Nov 18, 2015 - 10:04pm

    Reply to #120
    Yoxa

    Yoxa

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    Posts: 286

    Not diligent

    [quote] as diligently as I have investigated the Israeli divided loyalty [/quote]

    That's the problem, Arthur. You haven't been diligent at all.

     

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  • Thu, Nov 19, 2015 - 1:21am

    Reply to #120

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

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    Posts: 2230

    [Removed by Admin]

    [quote=Arthur Robey]

    But where we disagree is on my equal ruthlessness in my pursuit of the truth. You are unwilling to go where angels fear to tread. But why are you afraid? I find your paralysis interesting. I seem to have underestimated the strength of your conditioning. 

    [/quote]

    I'm taking some time to reflect on the forum topic and posts to this point, after which I will respond with a (granted hopefully) more thoughtful and articulated response.

    In the interim Arthur,

    [Removed by Admin]

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  • Thu, Nov 19, 2015 - 2:03am

    #121

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

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    Great vid...

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  • Thu, Nov 19, 2015 - 4:38am

    Reply to #98

    nickbert

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2009

    Posts: 260

    Arthur Robey wrote:So now I

    [quote=Arthur Robey]

    So now I am a duushbag, what ever that is.

    I love it when my opponents resort to name calling.

    More please.

    I have already said I am not here to be your friend. Your friendship is inconsequential. Please don't think I will  change my opinion because you have a hissy fit. 

    If you have anything more substantial than

    BTW, your 'fact' of 40% of Congress being dual-national Israeli citizens is beyond absurd and you could have verified that for yourself if you took just one minute to check it for yourself

    please present it. 

    Does one have to be a Jew to hold an Israeli passport?  An interesting question. 

    [/quote]

    For someone who claims to have diligent research, you're being conveniently lazy here.  Others have included information from one of said links, but if you insist upon being spoonfed:
    and just as a bonus:
    "So has Sanders ever taken action to claim the Israeli citizenship the would qualify for? He told Rehm no, and we have no evidence that would call that into question. While Sanders is Jewish by birth and spent some time on an Israeli kibbutz, or community farm, in the early 1960s, he would not have become a citizen without a concerted effort to become one.
    We did not hear back from Sanders’ office, but a spokesman, Michael Briggs, told Politico that "Diane Rehm is an excellent radio host. There’s a great big Internet out there with lots of good and bad information. I’ve never heard the question come up before."
    Hazony, an Israeli who studied at Princeton and Rutgers and who has written widely about both American and Israeli politics, said he’s not aware of any American lawmakers with Israeli citizenship. "In fact, it is common for Jews who are dual U.S.-Israel citizens to renounce one or the other before serving in official government capacities," he said."

    In order for the 40% number to be true, even if EVERY Jewish member of Congress had formally applied AND resided in Israel for at least three months (or been born there in the first place) to obtain Israeli citizenship, it would STILL be necessary for about 186 non-Jewish members of Congress to apply for and wait 5 years (with at least 3 years spent residing in Israel) to obtain citizenship through naturalization. Either that, or Israel is handing out citizenship like party favors to foreign government officials.  To say any of these is the case would be an extraordinary claim, and extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.  So far all you've presented is a questionable infographic which cites zero sources.  You later ask for specific numbers, but as far as I can tell they are not publicly available.  But just as Quercus bicolor posted earlier, I don't need to provide them… I said I could disprove your statement and I've done so in a way that satisfies any reasonable doubt.  The burden of finding the exact number is on you buddy boy.
     
    A long-lasting Deep State or other organization does not require a strong unifying hand or purpose… the binding force can be as simple as having a small number of shared interests and the understanding that more can be gained by cooperating than by competing fully against the others.  The players don't have to agree on everything, and don't even have to like each other or share a common vision (though that helps)… as long as the environment favors mutual profit through collusion, simple self-interest is enough. The two party system in the USA is one such example… each party has different public platforms and makes a big show of being enemies, but they each understand that the other has a role in maintaining the status quo that they BOTH benefit from, and as such there are unwritten rules they abide by and certain 'no-go' topics when it comes to competing with each other.  But as has always happened in the past, eventually the environment and circumstances will change to where the mutual benefit is no longer compelling and those rival interests will come to the fore.
     
    The Deep State LOVES simple answers and simple explanations… they are wonderful tools to manipulate the populace.   "Israel is the root of all the world's evil!", or "Israel is only a victim!".  "The migrant refugees are all terrorists and invaders!", or "The migrant refugees are all harmless and peaceful!".  It doesn't matter too much to the Deep State WHICH absolute you choose, only that you choose among the options they give you.  And if they can manage to keep people afraid, angry, or stressed, the people will not only accept but will DEMAND easy explanations and answers.  By your own statement…
    "Once you experience the loss of your civilization as I have, you too will find the motivation to fight for the remaining dregs"
    … it's apparent the recent events in Europe are stirring up painful experiences from your past, most likely triggering strong emotional states and stress.  Yeah that's a really raw deal, but you know what?  Ultimately that's your own baggage and nobody else's.  You can choose to work through it and take a fresh, hard look at the easy answer you've chosen.  Or you can keep feeding that pain, and continue having your Mel Gibson moment while being a useful puppet in the Deep State elite's divide-and-conquer strategy.
     
    The link to the video I provided before explained it all, but since you're so quick to play the victim card and accuse me of name-calling, I guess I need to spell out for you the meaning and context of the term 'douchebag credits'.  It essentially boils down to a combination of credibility, respectability, and character (more credits means you have more of said attributes, fewer credits means you have less).  And you know what?… I'd say it looks like you're down to your last few credits.  It's your choice whether to keep them or piss them away…

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  • Thu, Nov 19, 2015 - 8:11am

    #122

    herewego

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 11 2010

    Posts: 126

    Fight, Flight, Freeze, Blame?

    It's late, I'm no historian and I may regret trying to comment on this tight tangle of a thread.  Oh well.

    Arthur, why don't so many of us want to think about the things you say that remind us of genocide?  It could be the blessed peace, if you can call it that, which many of us have had for our lifetimes.  It may be because we we've all heard about hell on Earth in the form of religious wars, slavery, genocide and lots and lots of dead young men and civilians.  We've all be taught some version of "that's mostly all over with now".  Who, oh who would want to open that horrible package ever again?  It's OVER, Arthur!  Nobody wants racism anymore!  Let's blame the Jews?  Arrrgh!  Didn't we do that already? Sooooo last century…. Your intelligence shines in your posts.  Sometimes I can hardly endure reading them though.  An apparent willingness to flirt with blaming groups of others for the ills of the world is confusing and abhorrent to someone with my conditioning.  Yes, I have conditioning.

    Now, what happens inside a human mind and heart when racial hatred and warfare have utterly destroyed one's country and killed many of ones' people?  In that case, is racism over?  Is genocide just nasty history?  What if the deliberate murder of one's people is ongoing?

    A beloved of mine lives in South Africa.  He has no choice.  He is very white – Irish heritage.  He is in constant danger, living ordinary life there.  Financial danger because the hiring of whites is severely restricted to rebalance the extreme advantages they had in apartheid.  He grew up middle class, but now hangs on by his fingernails, working through dental pain, angina, ulcers and skin cancer because he cannot miss a day's income if he wants to feed his son.  Physical danger because blacks try to run him over on his moped.  Danger to his tiny, beloved son because civil war is highly likely sometime in his lifetime. 

    The fights we have when he starts talking about blacks!  I can't stand the barrage of racist assumptions that lace his thinking, and he can't stand the safety I get to have.  I can't stand the way he ignores the oppressions non-whites endured in SA, and he can't stand the fact that since we outnumber the First Nations I get to be untroubled by our behaviors.  It's a screaming match at times.  I surprise myself. 

    I think that humans are really, really stuck regarding our warring ways.  Our communication, negotiation and cooperation skills can be developed to a marvelous degree.  Still, en masse, terrified humans are quickly overwhelmed by aggression impulses.  A more mature species would recognize those emotions, would notice that empathy and creativity are slipping away, and would take a wee break to reclaim them.  We would not find someone to blame and then try to demonize and kill them, maybe even all of them. 

    We will never find a group so perfect to blame that our terror and violence are solved, though you can't say we have not tried.  That shift will happen in another way.  I think our empathy and negotiation skills have to expand exponentially. 

    Meanwhile, I do have empathy for the longing for peace, the aversion to demonizing a group yet again.  I also do accept that things look very different to people whose experiences have been very different and that it might be worthwhile to hear how it looks to them, no matter how much I disagree.  They can see things I can't.  I may not come to their conclusions but I'll learn some things.

    Yikes

    Susan

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  • Thu, Nov 19, 2015 - 9:57am

    #123

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    I agree with most of the

    I agree with most of the comments above. The point that sticks out for me is that if we don't try something different we are going to get the same results that we have always had. 

    To be frank I really do hope the UFO nutters are wrong (Of which I am one. One lives in hope) I would be just too embarrassed to meet the neighbors. 

    That silly meme strikes again. 

    Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. 

    No they don't. They require evidence. Carl Sagan regretted trotting that one out. It is so well ingrained that I suppose that there is no killing it now. 

    But still I am going to be consistent in my message until it slowly sinks in.  I love my people and my culture, but the only way we get out of this exponential hole is UP. Nothing else suffices.  I do not have the skills nor the savagery of my ancestors to survive without the support of my civilization. Period.

    Let's abandon this fantasy.  No, you will not survive in a Little House on the Prairie. As romantic as it all sounds. 

    I find it very troubling that many take the fruits of our Civilization for granted and are not vigilant in uncovering our foes. But I understand.  I went grocery shopping today.  It was So Normal. What could possibly go wrong?

    On a side note : I try to make my message a one liner because some people have very poor comprehension skills. They keep reading into my words things and emotions that are not there. 

    Where in all my above rants have I advocated killing Jews? Here is it's what I want you to do.  It is very simple.  No one is going to get hurt.  I cannot do it Because I cannot vote in your country. 

    Another one liner so that no one is confused. 

    Ask the next congress critter who wants your vote if (s)he has dual citizenship. 

    That's it. 

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  • Thu, Nov 19, 2015 - 10:12am

    #124
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1612

    Doing the blame shift game

    Mr Valls presented a bill to the French parliament that would extend the country's state of emergency for another three months. It will then go to the upper house on Friday.

    He said: "Terrorism hit France, not because of what it is doing in Iraq and Syria … but for what it is."

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  • Thu, Nov 19, 2015 - 10:56am

    Reply to #120

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    Diligence

    That's the problem, Arthur. You haven't been diligent at all.

    I hope that you too are diligent and read my last post Yoxa. It's a pearler.

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  • Thu, Nov 19, 2015 - 11:43am

    #125

    Bankers Slave

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jul 26 2012

    Posts: 513

    The dual citizenship thing

    What are the special requirements for the dual citizenship qualification? 

    And is it overshadowed by virtually the whole congress doing nothing about this…

     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXaCym8RjJU

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  • Thu, Nov 19, 2015 - 3:04pm

    #126
    RoseHip

    RoseHip

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 05 2013

    Posts: 144

    This one is for you Arthur

    Let Dr David Eagleman show you what he has found.

    http://video.pbs.org/video/2365603629/

    Who will we be?

    Rose

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  • Thu, Nov 19, 2015 - 5:30pm

    #127
    RoseHip

    RoseHip

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 05 2013

    Posts: 144

    Integrating ideas

    And I don't think I need to go into any detail to show you your otherings. You do what you think is best and so will I and with any luck something greater can emerge. As long as things go gently into the night. Sure some Neural prunnings need to happen yet where its gets really juicy is where we provide neural enhancements. A collective mind awaits. Ideas are important just not as important as the integration of ideas.  

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  • Thu, Nov 19, 2015 - 5:42pm

    Reply to #125

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 405

    Very misleading video

    Very misleading video banker's slave. Whatever that pledge is, it is to get funding by the Israeli lobby. I'm grabbing the database of lobby expenditures right now to show you where the Israeli lobby fits in.

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  • Thu, Nov 19, 2015 - 6:16pm

    Reply to #125

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 405

    Here you go Banker's Slave,

    Here you go Banker's Slave, the top 1,000 or so lobby organizations.. Israel is highlighted in red, right next to the national association of convenience stores….

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1J2qThNir0FaIpYDK2iMQu2Nvi2CNBp_RIx4j7vovDxg/edit?usp=sharing

    Nobody has to sign a pledge understanding Israel independence, because there are thousands of more resources for funding. There are other ways to sell your soul.

    YouTube is full of misinformation. You guys have to stop watching all this crap.

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  • Thu, Nov 19, 2015 - 7:20pm

    Reply to #125

    Bankers Slave

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jul 26 2012

    Posts: 513

    If its not the money then what the hell is it.

    Its a zio luv fest! 29 standing ovations for the Israeli puppet!

    Are you not amused?

     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asGvjbfIASA

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  • Thu, Nov 19, 2015 - 7:33pm

    Reply to #125

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Fixed it for ya

    [quote=Bankers Slave]

    Are you not amused entertained?

    [/quote]

    Meh.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsqJFIJ5lLs

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  • Thu, Nov 19, 2015 - 7:45pm

    Reply to #125

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 405

    Seriously?

    He's the leader of a powerful foreign government and it's a room full of politicians. It does not matter what they say, of course they are going to stand up and clap. It's politics.

    Standing up and clapping to the leader of Ukraine

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/18/ukrainian-president-congress-us-support

    Standing up and clapping to the leader of Mexico

    Video: Democrats give Mexican president standing ovation for dumping on Arizona

    Standing up and clapping to the Pope

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/24/pope-francis-congress-speech-immigration-climate-change-abortion

    Standing up and clapping for the president of the US

    http://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/news/2014/jan/29/obama-warns-divided-congress-he-will-act-alone/

     

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  • Thu, Nov 19, 2015 - 7:58pm

    #128

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    Well done Wildlife Tracker.

    Your sleuthing is impressive. 

    That still leaves open the issue of the composition the Deep State. Now it is even more mysterious.

    Are the misadventures in the middle east mere errors of judgment? Whoopsies? Acts of a desperate empire? 

    I am confused and must Reorientate myself.

    Unfortunately your video is unavailable to me Rosehip. 

    You have all been given a lesson on the value of free speech. 

    One small item.  Who exactly are these organizations?  I mean I can call myself Ming The Magnificent but my title is a bit misleading. "American Chamber of Commerce" has a nice patriotic ring to it. Who is on it's board? 

     

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  • Thu, Nov 19, 2015 - 8:26pm

    #129

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    So I did a little sleuthing of my own.

    Not a lot of effort,  mind you. I found the American Chamber of Commerce website. ( Isn't the internet wonderful. )

    I was actually looking for the board of directors. No luck yet.

    What I did find was a lot of smilely faces. Oh.  And they have some initiative called "Diversity and Inclusion". That sounds about right. And they have interests in the education of your children. 

    But unfortunately they didn't put their directors on a prominent place.  I guess that they think that we are not interested.  Or maybe they are a bit shy. 

    http://www.acce.org/

    And here is a riveting video of their board meeting. 

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  • Thu, Nov 19, 2015 - 8:41pm

    Reply to #129

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 405

    Right on Arthur,That lobby

    Right on Arthur,

    That lobby data is from maplight…

    http://maplight.org/us-congress/lobbying

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  • Thu, Nov 19, 2015 - 9:12pm

    Reply to #129

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 405

    Tom J. Donohue

    CEO of the US Chamber of Commerce

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_J._Donohue

    The the US chamber of Commerce is exactly what you think it is. It a means for large corporations to donate money without actually connecting that money with their own name, but their interests are secured.

    According to the Wall Street Journal, "[Donohue's] most striking innovation has been to offer individual companies and industries the chance to use the chamber as a means of anonymously pursuing their own political ends." Major corporations donate funds to the Chamber, earmarked for particular political topics, and the Chamber spends them under its own name. Furthermore, "[t]hose companies helped the chamber raise $35 million in 2000 for general operations, up sharply from $3 million four years ago, and kicked in another $20 million for special projects.

    So who donates to the US chamber of commerce?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/28/contributions-chamber-of-commerce_n_4171000.html

    Contributions available for political and lobbying use came from big American companies including 3M, Aetna, AFLAC, American Electrical Power, Capital One, Cummins, CVS Caremark, Deere & Company, Dominion Resources, Dow Chemical, Ebay, Exelon, Metlife, Microsoft, Noble Energy, Prudential Financial, Qualcomm, Union Pacific, Wellpoint and Yum! Brands. Four corporations — Intel, Merck, PepsiCo and Reynolds American — did not disclose how much of their Chamber contributions were not tax-deductible.

    So basically because the US Chamber of Commerce is a not for profit organization. They do not need to disclose their donors. Large companies donate to it AND get a tax write-off AND secure their own political interests

    There you go. Our largest corporate lobby is a tax scam.

    I know what you are thinking, but Please. Please. Please don't say Israel is the largest donor. There is ZERO evidence of that

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  • Thu, Nov 19, 2015 - 9:14pm

    Reply to #129

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

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    Posts: 1814

    An error.

    The "American Chamber of Commerce" is a completely different organization to the "U.S Chamber of Commerce," who are the big hitters in the lobby game.

    https://www.uschamber.com/about-us/about-the-us-chamber?related=119017

    Tricky that.

    That Maplight site is very data rich. 

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  • Thu, Nov 19, 2015 - 9:16pm

    Reply to #129

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 405

    Thanks

    Fixed it.

     

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  • Thu, Nov 19, 2015 - 10:48pm

    Reply to #129

    debu

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 16 2009

    Posts: 36

    Book Recommendation for Wildlife Tracker

    It's not only the money.

    The Israel Lobby by Walt (Harvard) and Mearsheimer (University of Chicago) published by Farrar, Straus and Giroux in 2008 is still germane.

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 1:03am

    #130

    kelvinator

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Dec 25 2008

    Posts: 181

    Your Tax Dollars at Work

    I'm not sure where all this discussion of the Israeli lobby and the Jews in congress came from or ended up, but I think the world's a complicated place.  Looks to me like globally, we're all having to deal with the idea lumping a particular kind of people, to the extent there is such a thing, into a group that we can label as being in some way nasty, impure, dangerous, evil, smart-evil-controllers or crazy.   That's the stuff that happy social magic is made of, no? 

    My wife identifies as being Jewish while, though I'm technically Jewish by birth, my parents were completely not religious – we celebrated Christmas most years.  We're both really upset that Israel, with US support, is doing to the Palesinians by not honestly establishing a Palestinian State that they and the world said they wanted, and then oppressing the Palestinians with, at times, unchecked brutality that in itself creates US and Israeli state-condoned acts of terror.  

    Recently an obviously unarmed young Palestinian flag carrier is shot in cold blood by our friends, the IDF (Israeli Defense Force).  I'm guessing there wasn't much of a consequence for that injury or death, from what I've been reading.  I find videos like this hard to look at, but as far as I'm concerned, it's really important that every single American take a look at their tax dollars at work, as Israel is far and away the largest recipient of our foreign aid at around 40 billion in economic and military according to Wikipedia. The Roman Legions are endless, and carry their brutal message of obedience far into the hinterlands.

    https://www.facebook.com/btselemheb/videos/987050778002954/

    October-November 2015, army shot live ammo without justification on protestors in the Gaza strip. Protesting These 14 were killed and 379 injured, mostly miri alive.

    See video shot shooting live without justification a young who tried to hang a flag on a fence system. The youngest was unarmed and not risking any way the troops, who were sheltering behind piles of dirt on the other side of the fence.

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 2:35am

    Reply to #129

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

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    Posts: 405

    Thanks for the recommendation

    I read some Amazon reviews and the NY Times review and it looks to be a pretty controversial book. I think I understand that one of the major points of the book that Israel is not a strategic position, and therefore it makes zero sense that we give that country 3 billion every year.

    I'm not a 4 star general, but if I was trying to a lay out a strategic position, I would want to completely surround my enemy (the position of Israel does that). I would also want to secure a position with the least amount of resources possible, which means no boots on the ground if possible because that is expensive and consumes resources. There is a reason countries install governments in other countries because it allows for more loyalty after an invasion because the "illusion" of their former government is still there, and therefore it takes less energy to keep a population under control. Full occupation is exhausting and we saw that in both Iraq and Afghanistan. 

    Obviously Israel is not a true "puppet," but it is not independent from the US either. I believe that. I also understand that we have zero troops on the ground in Israel and very few troops in Egypt, yet we have secured those positions (roughly). Even though both Israel and Egypt together are given the equivalent of like 0.6 – 0.7% of our national defense budget every year, it's far far cheaper than having major boots on the ground in those locations, and the positions are still secured. Puppet militaries.

    I might have not made any sort of a case, but I'm not that great at articulating how I view things. It's also a drinking night for me.

    To sum up, I think Israel and Egypt are highly strategic and 4-5 billion is not that much money in comparison the defense budget to secure those positions. My opinion.

    http://public.tableau.com/profile/brendan8450#!/vizhome/AmericanEmpire/Dashboard1

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 2:51am

    #131

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Banned FOX News Footage Israeli Links

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 3:11am

    #132

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Loose Change

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 3:18am

    #133
    Hotrod

    Hotrod

    Status Member (Offline)

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    Posts: 160

    Dual citizens

    It is my fault for the direction of this thread.  I sincerely asked, and still want to know if and who are dual citizens  and yet serve in government positions.  Some of these individuals are in the Neocon group:  Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Fieth, Michael Cherthoff, Dov Zokheim, Victoria Nuland, and several others.  Can somebody please tell me if it can be verified that these people are dual citizens?  If so, they have no standing to be serving in our government in any capacity IMHO.

     

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 3:38am

    Reply to #133

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

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    Posts: 2230

    Some links

    [quote=Hotrod]

    It is my fault for the direction of this thread.  I sincerely asked, and still want to know if and who are dual citizens  and yet serve in government positions.  Some of these individuals are in the Neocon group:  Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Fieth, Michael Cherthoff, Dov Zokheim, Victoria Nuland, and several others.  Can somebody please tell me if it can be verified that these people are dual citizens?  If so, they have no standing to be serving in our government in any capacity IMHO.

    [/quote]

    http://investmentwatchblog.com/members-in-us-politics-who-hold-dual-usisraeli-citizenship/

    http://www.budgetcamerareview.com/forum/discussion/480/members-in-us-politics-who-hold-dual-usisraeli-citizenship/p1

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 4:05am

    #134

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

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    Posts: 2230

    How much truth is there to this?

    Watch this first one if you watch any of these:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etXAm-OylQQ

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 4:57am

    #135

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

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    Posts: 2230

    A ring of truth to this...

    When he speaks of brainwashing of the kids at a young age…I believe him.

    Because it is happening here.

    https://youtu.be/etXAm-OylQQ

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 5:34am

    #136

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    CC

    CC: the others

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 5:48am

    #137

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Possible?

    Hard to imagine such a large group of people really having this type of mindset. But then it occurred to me, we had the same thing here in the states (white persecution of blacks openly in the south) less than two generations ago. Why couldn't it be as he says? Are there really three sets of laws in Israel? How is that not racist?

    Now add in possible control of the world banking system via the Fed…dear God.

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 5:49am

    #138

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Click?

    It all seems to make sense through this lense. PNAC, the TC, 9/11, Sandy Hook, Boston, AIPAC, Paris, dual citizenship politicians…is Israel the key to tying it all together? She needs to maintain control and influence/guidance of America's military. To do that, she has to maintain control over the American people, hence a massive multigenerational psychological operation, 9/11 and ongoing cultural dilution.

    If she loses America…she's toast and they know it.

    Once the collapse sets it, America's natural tendency will be to fold inward and balkanize (just like Russia back in the 80's). If she does, and Israel loses her military backing…she will be overrun by a rather upset group of neighbors.

    It's all or nothing.  

    Or as they say in Texas hold'em…"All in".

    Edit: If this is approaching the truth…then it is f*****g evil.

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 6:30am

    #139

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    WTH is "Ashkenazi"?

    Most of these people are identified, in various venues on the interweb, as "Ashkenazi" Jewish. What does that mean/infer?

    [quote]U.S. Federal Gun Control Legislation, 1968 – present (lifted off of a public domain website, can't remember which)

    1968: The Gun Control Act of 1968 comes from Congressman Emanuel Celler’s House bill H.R.17735. It expands legislation already attempted by Senator Thomas Dodd. America’s biggest and most far-reaching gun law.

    1988: Senator Howard Metzenbaum sponsors Senate bill S.1523. It proposes legislation turning every violation of the Gun Control Act of 1968 into a RICO predicate offense, allowing a gun owner to be charged with federal racketeering offenses.

    1988: Senator Howard Metzenbaum co-sponsors a bill – S.2180 – to ban, or limit/restrict, so-called “plastic guns.”

    1990: Senator Herbert Kohl introduces bill S.2070, the Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990, which bans gun possession in a school zone. The law will later be struck down in court as unconstitutional.

    1993: Senator Howard Metzenbaum sponsors Senate bill S.653. It bans specific semiautomatic rifles, but also gives the Secretary of the Treasury the power to add any semiautomatic firearm to the list at a later date.

    February, 1994: The Brady Law, which requires waiting periods to buy handguns, becomes effective. Senator Howard Metzenbaum wrote the Brady Bill. Senator Metzenbaum sponsored the bill in the Senate. The sponsor of the bill in the House was Congressman Charles Schumer.

    1994: Senator Howard Metzenbaum introduces S.1878, the Gun Violence Prevention Act of 1994, aka “Brady II.” Congressman Charles Schumer sponsored “Brady II” sister legislation [H.R. 1321] in the U.S. House of Representatives.

    September, 1994: The Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 goes into effect, including a provision that bans the manufacture and possession of semiautomatic rifles described as “assault weapons.” [Note: true assault weapons are fully automatic, not semiautomatic]. That gun-ban provision was authored in the Senate by Senator Dianne Feinstein and authored in the House by Congressman Charles Schumer.

    1995: Senators Kohl, Specter, Feinstein, Lautenberg and others introduce the Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1995, an amended version of the 1990 school-zone law which was struck down in court as being unconstitutional.

    September, 1996: The Lautenberg Domestic Confiscation provision becomes law. It is part of a larger omnibus appropriations bill. It was sponsored by Senator Frank Lautenberg. It bans people convicted of misdemeanor domestic violence from ever owning a gun.

    1997: Senate bill S.54, the Federal Gang Violence Act of 1997, proposes much harsher sentences for people violating minor gun laws, including mandatory prison sentences and forfeiture of property. It was introduced by Senator Dianne Feinstein and Senator Hatch, among others. It returns the idea of turning every violation of the Gun Control Act of 1968 into a RICO predicate offense.

    January, 1999: Senator Barbara Boxer introduces bill S.193, the American Handgun Standards Act of 1999.

    January, 1999: Senator Herbert Kohl introduces bill S.149, the Child Safety Lock Act of 1999. It would require a child safety lock in connection with transfer of a handgun.

    February,1999: Senator Frank Lautenberg introduces bill S.407, the Stop Gun Trafficking Act of 1999.

    February, 1999: Senator Frank Lautenberg introduces S.443, the Gun Show Accountability Act of 1999.

    March, 1999: Senator Frank Lautenberg introduces bill S.560, the Gun Industry Accountability Act of 1999.

    March, 1999: Senator Dianne Feinstein introduces bill S.594, the Large Capacity Ammunition Magazine Import Ban Act of 1999.

    May, 2000: Senators Feinstein, Boxer, Lautenberg, and Schumer sponsor Senate bill S.2515, the Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2000. It is a plan for a national firearms licensing system.

    January, 2001: Senators Feinstein, Schumer, and Boxer sponsor Senate bill S.25, the Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2001. It is a nation-wide gun registration plan [apparently there were two versions of that Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act bill].

    May, 2003: Senators Feinstein, Schumer, Boxer, and others introduce legislation that would reauthorize the 1994 federal assault weapons ban, and, close a loophole in the law that allows large-capacity ammunition magazines to be imported into the U.S. The ban expired in September, 2004.

    October, 2003: Senators Feinstein, Lautenberg, Levin, and Schumer co-sponsor bill S.1774, designed to stop the sunset [ending] of the Undetectable Firearms Act of 1988.

    March, 2005: Senator Frank Lautenberg introduces bill S.645, “to reinstate the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act,” in other words, to reinstate the 1994 assault-rifle ban [also known as the “Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994”] which expired in late 2004.

    March, 2005: Senator Dianne Feinstein introduces bill S.620, “to reinstate the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act,” in other words, to reinstate the 1994 assault-rifle ban [also known as the “Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994”] which expired in late 2004.

    July, 2005: Senator Dianne Feinstein introduces bill S.A.1621 – Fifty-Caliber Sniper Weapons. This amendment would convert all .50 BMG firearms to NFA weapons.

    July, 2005: Senator Dianne Feinstein introduces bill S.A.1622 – Fifty-Caliber Exclusion to S.397. This amendment would modify S.397 to allow suits when the firearm involved was a .50 caliber weapon.

    July, 2005: Senator Barbara Boxer introduces bill S.A.1633 – BATFE Safety Standards. This amendment allows law suits to continue/be brought if the product did not meet the safety standards as defined by the BATFE.

    July, 2005: Senator Barbara Boxer introduces bill S.A.1634 – ‘Sporting Use’ on Domestic Handguns. Applying ’sporting use’ clause requirements to domestic handguns could, almost completely, dry up the handgun availability in the United States.[/quote]

    NYPD Just Opened Police Department Branch In Israel (Counter Current News)

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 6:35am

    #140

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    I think these are the good guys...

    Do Jewish "Gun Control" Advocates Fuel Anti-Semitism? (JPFO)

    [quote]Remarkably, in the face of the growing overt anti-Jewish sentiment, Jews remain overwhelmingly supportive of so-called "gun control" policies. While exact statistics are hard to come by, we can logically extrapolate from the 78% of Jews who voted for Obama in 2008 to conclude that the overwhelming majority of American Jews support the Democrat agenda, including citizen disarmament, the so-called "gun control" schemes.

    Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership has, for more than twenty years, placed "gun control" in quotes. This innocuous phrase is actually a form of deceptive semantic trickery. "Gun control" ALWAYS means gun registration. Gun registration is a means by which governments know which citizens are armed, and with what types of firearms.

    In every major genocide of the last one hundred years (including the Holocaust), the victim group was first officially disarmed. Far too often, "gun control" has historically ended in gun confiscation … followed by the hell of genocide.

    The equation is simple: A government-gone-bad cannot disarm the citizenry if it does not know who owns the guns.

    This nation (along with the rest of the world) is now entering a destabilized economic situation unmatched by anything since the 1930s (emphasis mine – somebody's been doing their homework). Societal upheaval is a prime breeding ground for intolerance and bigotry. Anger and frustration seek easy targets. What group has historically been on the top of the scapegoat list?

    From strictly a Jewish point of view, the grotesquely misguided stance of self disarmament among Jews could someday become suicidal for the individual Jew, or G-d forbid, for American Jews as a whole. See: "No Guns For Jews" and "Gun Control: Gateway to Tyranny".

    Over and over again, Aaron Zelman, the late founder of Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership (JPFO), would say: "Considering our history, of all the ethic groups on Earth, Jews should be the most dedicated group advocating the right to keep and bear arms."[/quote]

    Agreed.

    [quote]From a broader perspective, we find many Christians in America who believe in the prophecies of the Hebrew Scriptures, revere the Ten Commandments, and have an instinctive affection and respect for the Jewish People. Should the situation arise, many of these devout Christians would step forward as Righteous Gentiles in defense of their "theological brothers."

    But try to imagine how such Gentiles feel about overwhelming Jewish support for gun prohibition. Jews arguing for the disarmament of America’s citizenry must baffle (and even anger) our well-meaning Gentile neighbors.

    It is bad enough that so many Jews give up their own right to self-defense … but to also force others to do the same, by promoting the disarmament of our law-abiding, patriotic American brethren who would stand and defend us? This is both illogical and self-destructive on the part of the Jews who cry out for an unarmed populace.[/quote]

    Agreed.

    Just one (of the many) reasons why you can't paint a broad brush and say that all people from a religion/culture/tribe are bad/evil/racist/whatever.

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 7:48am

    #141

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    DNA ties Ashkenazi Jews to group of just 330 people

    DNA ties Ashkenazi Jews to group of just 330 people from Middle Ages (LA Times)

    [quote]“Ashkenaz” in Hebrew refers to Germany, and Ashkenazi Jews are those who originated in Eastern Europe. (Sephardic Jews, by contrast, are from the areas around the Mediterranean Sea, including Portugal, Spain, the Middle East and Northern Africa.) About 80% of modern Jews have Ashkenazi ancestry, according to the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. Albert Einstein was an Ashkenazi Jew, as were Gertrude Stein and Carl Sagan. Steven Spielberg and Scarlett Johansson are also Ashkenazi Jews, along with three current members of the U.S. Supreme Court (Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Stephen Breyer and Elena Kagan).[/quote]

    Originated from Eastern Europe? Thought they were supposed to be from Israel…

    Three members of the Supreme Court?

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 7:49am

    #142

    kelvinator

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Dec 25 2008

    Posts: 181

    Goldman Sachs Megalomanics Take Over Central Bank Insane Asylum!

    I got a laugh out of the combination of this picture of a manic-seeming Neel Kashkari with this headline, in Bloomberg of all places.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-17/what-wall-street-s-return-to-central-banking-may-mean-for-policy

    It’s like Night of the Living Dead Finance: Megalomanics from Goldman Sachs and Wall Street Have Now Taken Over the Central Bank Insane Asylum! “Please, you must allow me to drink your low interest rates. I really must haf them. Don’t vorry, you will feel no more than a pinprick”

    The story says that with Goldman in charge there’s going be tighter money (higher interest rates)?! Give me a break.

    We’ve already had endless Goldman Sachs Treasury secretaries and I’m still waiting for the mythical Prudent Banker of old to show up. Now Goldman Sachs brethren run a third of Fed district banks, Goldman Carney runs Bank of England, Goldman Draghi runs the ECB. I’ll believe the story these guys are moving toward “tighter money” when I see it. This notion of an interest rate raise in the US is just a passing distraction to keep the game from becoming a complete farce. If you’re a banker that can print money in lean times, we see it's a leetle bit tough to resist printing just a trillion or two now and then, here and there, and giving it to yourself and your smart friends. After all, you’re all just financiers on the move, doing God’s work, right? as Mr. Blankfein, Goldman CEO once said.

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 8:07am

    Reply to #141

    HughK

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Mar 06 2012

    Posts: 571

    The diaspora

    [quote=Time2help]

    DNA ties Ashkenazi Jews to group of just 330 people from Middle Ages (LA Times)

    Originated from Eastern Europe? Thought they were supposed to be from Israel…

    [/quote]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_diaspora

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 8:54am

    Reply to #141

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 405

    T2H

    hahaha I thought this was suppose to be about ZIONISTS not Jewish members of society (as your request). I'm not sober enough to respond to this this woo hah , but I will say that I will have an updated post on cops killing civilians maybe tomorrow.

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 8:54am

    Reply to #141

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 405

    T2H

    hahaha I thought this was suppose to be about ZIONISTS not Jewish members of society (as your request). I'm not sober enough to respond to this this woo hah , but I will say that I will have an updated post on cops killing civilians maybe tomorrow.

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 8:59am

    Reply to #141

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 405

    Hotrod

    There is ZERO evidence  of duel citizenship anywhere in the US government. Anybody who claims otherwise is spreading false information.

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 10:04am

    #143

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    Competing Hypothesis.

    OK. So if we eliminate the obvious then whatever is left over must be the truth. (Or words to that effect). No matter how absurd you might find the truth to be. 

    May I offer Catherine A Fitts. She is one smart cookie and has had Dealings with the Deep State.

     

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 10:48am

    #144
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1612

    That sounds like the guy who

    That (the introducer) sounds like the guy who runs Red Ice Radio the neo nazi media operation.

    Interesting talk though. Is she right, the mortage disaster was engineered and not simple fraud ?

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 12:48pm

    #145

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    How do these puzzle pieces fit together?

    The Rothschilds * Political Zionism * The Federal Reserve * The US Dollar * Ashkenazi * State of Israel

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 12:52pm

    Reply to #145

    Bankers Slave

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

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    Posts: 513

    Puzzle piece

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXY8Cs_H2-0

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 1:27pm

    #146

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Some interesting reads

    Dual Citizens in Congress? (Counter Punch)

    Renouncing my Israeli citizenship (Lenny Lapon)

    ‘You have dual citizenship with Israel’ — NPR host hits Sanders with internet canard (Mondoweiss)

    If Americans Knew (IAK website)

    Profile: Alison Weir (Anti-Defamation League)

     

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 1:28pm

    #147

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Two sides to every story...

    …is this the other side?

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 4:33pm

    #148

    kelvinator

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Dec 25 2008

    Posts: 181

    A Loose Affiliation of Millionaires and Billionaires

    I think Paul Simon got it about right in Boy in the Bubble: “a loose affiliation of millionaires and billionaires”.

    "It was a slow day,

    and the sun was beating down

    on the soldiers by the side of the road.

    There was a bright light

    a shattering of shop windows

    the bomb in the baby carriage

    was wired to the radio…"

    I'm sure there are some schemes, plots, tight or loose collusions, common interests, "smart" self-manipulations that are destructive for everyone else, and also foolish collaborations, mistakes, diverging and disruptive interests, political battles, wars.  We'll uncover things here and there, but my guess is, unfortunately, it's not likely that we'll ever get a clear and comprehensive report issued by the People’s Tribunal, Time2help, though that would be great.  We'll just have a good sense of the outlines, and see the increasingly roiling results as time goes on.

    To me, it seems it's really important in this growing, pernicious atmosphere of distrust not to be foolishly anti-Semitic or to paint any cultural group with a label, whether Jews, Muslims, Syrians, Australians, Americans, etc.  Every group is made up of individuals who, of course, are responsible for their own kindness, generosity, wisdom and consciousness, their own hardness, stupidity, fear or hate, and for what they do or don't do.  All religions have been used to justify horrible, criminal acts.  Those who have been terribly abused often seem to become some of the most terrible abusers and oppressors.  That's what damage and trauma often does.

    Goldman Sach’s US Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson is a Christian Scientist, not Jewish, from what I read.  I’m sure he thinks of himself as doing what he can to help the world. In fact, he is doing something worthwhile, I’d say, with his “Risky Business Project” which focuses on quantifying and publicizing the economic risks from the impacts of climate change – though likely too little too late.  Still, that doesn’t stop me from believing he’s a disastrous part of the loose affiliation of millionaires and billionaires, and what he did by channeling hundreds of billions (trillions total?) to his friends on Wall Street in 2008 was criminal – hugely corrupt.  He has been a key player in the betrayal of the American public.  The world’s a complicated place.  We have to call out the people who are, on balance, criminals and frauds – people doing damage, as well as supporting those supporting the creation of a humane and free new world that can work for everyone, or the vast majority.  None of it seems to have easy answers with cheat sheet group identifiers to tell the players based on a quick label, yes?

     

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 5:10pm

    Reply to #144
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1612

    Carbon Blob wrote:That (the

    [quote=Carbon Blob]

    That (the introducer) sounds like the guy who runs Red Ice Radio the neo nazi media operation.

    Interesting talk though. Is she right, the mortage disaster was engineered and not simple fraud ?

    [/quote]

     

    Yup, was right. I wonder if Fitts realised what a massive nazi was introducing her ?

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 5:34pm

    Reply to #133

    Wildlife Tracker

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    T2H those are lists of JEWISH

    T2H those are lists of JEWISH PEOPLE, not ISRAELI CITIZENS

    What is the source of those lists? Seriously? The only source is the fact that they are all Jewish. No other reason, but they are Jewish. 

    That's about as silly as me saying that each of these Presidents are Russian communists because they are democrats

    Andrew Jackson
    Martin Van Buren
    James K. Polk
    Franklin Pierce
    James Buchanan
    Andrew Johnson
    Grover Cleveland
    Woodrow Wilson
    Franklin D. Roosevelt
    Harry S. Truman
    John F. Kennedy
    Lyndon B. Johnson
    Jimmy Carter
    Bill Clinton
    Barack Obama

     

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 5:46pm

    Reply to #133

    Wildlife Tracker

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    T2H

    It all seems to make sense through this lense. PNAC, the TC, 9/11, Sandy Hook, Boston, AIPAC, Paris, dual citizenship politicians…is Israel the key to tying it all together? She needs to maintain control and influence/guidance of America's military. To do that, she has to maintain control over the American people, hence a massive multigenerational psychological operation, 9/11 and ongoing cultural dilution.

    If she loses America…she's toast and they know it.

    What do those events have to do with control, rather than motivation to go to war? What's wrong with this lense? We went to war with Iraq because they have an absurd amount of oil, and those events provide social investment in the war.

    You can't have a war without the backing of the people. Who is going to fight it?

    Also, Israel is not the one giving the US weapons and paper. Who is controlling who?

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 5:49pm

    #149

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

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    Posts: 2230

    How Do These Puzzle Pieces Fit Together?

    The Rothschilds * Political Zionism * The Federal Reserve * The US Dollar * Ashkenazi * State of Israel

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 6:02pm

    #150

    Wildlife Tracker

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    Posts: 405

    Rockefellers

    Why does everyone mention the Rothschilds before the Rockefellers?

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 6:18pm

    Reply to #150

    Wildlife Tracker

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    I will tell you whyThe

    I will tell you why

    The Rothschilds supports your theory, and the Rockefellers don't. How many buildings have the Rothschilds donated to the US government to run into military bases or national parks?

    Everything that goes on in the world today is business. That's all it is. Nothing personal, just business.

    Go review the top 10 lobbyists in the US and tell me who runs this country.

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 6:22pm

    #151
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    If that's a Rothschild

    If that's a Rothschild mansion I'm disappointed. It's HIDEOUS.

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 6:25pm

    #152

    Time2help

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    Posts: 2230

    It's falling apart

    9/11 was never going to stay a secret forever. 

    Could a Team of “Artists” Really Been the Ones Who Rigged the World Trade Centers with Explosives? (Rundown Live)

    World Trade Center's Infamous 91st-Floor Israeli ‘Art Student’ Project (Winter Watch)

    Israeli Art Students Inside WTC ~ The B-Thing (Methodical Deception)

    BB18 Fuseholder by Littlefuse

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 6:29pm

    Reply to #151

    Wildlife Tracker

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    Posts: 405

    hahaha It a Rockefeller

    hahaha It a Rockefeller mansion in Winter Harbor, Maine. It was developed into a submarine monitoring station during the cold war. Apparently there is a rumor that there is a crazy underground facility below the building, but now its just the regional headquarters for Acadia National Park.

    A lot of history in that building.

    Here is another Rockefeller mansion turned National Park. Marsh Billings Rockefeller in Vermont.

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 6:31pm

    #153

    Time2help

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    Posts: 2230

    Why?

    [quote=Wildlife Tracker]Why does everyone mention the Rothschilds before the Rockefellers?[/quote]

    Why do you care so much about this Wildlife?

    [quote=Wildlife Tracker]I'll tell you why – the Rothschilds supports your theory, and the Rockefellers don't.[/quote]

    And please explain – the theory to which you are referring?  Just asking a question:

    How Do These Puzzle Pieces Fit Together?

    The Rothschilds * Political Zionism * The Federal Reserve * The US Dollar * Ashkenazi * State of Israel

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 6:36pm

    #154

    Time2help

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    Posts: 2230

    Here's some more for you...

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 6:37pm

    Reply to #148

    Time2help

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    Posts: 2230

    Individual Responsibility

    [quote=kelvinator]

    To me, it seems it's really important in this growing, pernicious atmosphere of distrust not to be foolishly anti-Semitic or to paint any cultural group with a label, whether Jews, Muslims, Syrians, Australians, Americans, etc.  

    [/quote]

    Agreed in principle, as long as this isn't used by guilty parties as a deflection to mask objective truth.

    [quote=kelvinator]

    Every group is made up of individuals who, of course, are responsible for their own kindness, generosity, wisdom and consciousness, their own hardness, stupidity, fear or hate, and for what they do or don't do.

    [/quote]

    Completely agree. And individuals that commit, or are responsible for the commission, of atrocities should be held accountable, whether Jews, Muslims, Syrians, Australians, Americans, etc.

    [quote=kelvinator]

    All religions have been used to justify horrible, criminal acts.  Those who have been terribly abused often seem to become some of the most terrible abusers and oppressors.  That's what damage and trauma often does.

    [/quote]

    Agreed. But being abused/oppressed doesn't give one a license to do the same to others. That's akin to saying that because a child is abused by it's parents it is justified in abusing it's future offspring.

    What Israel is doing to the Palestinian people is wrong. And it colors the entire viewpoint that Israel has a morally superior position in the matter. 

    The growing body of evidence that elements of the State of Israel may have played a key role in 9/11 further colors this perspective.

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 6:40pm

    #155

    Time2help

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    Posts: 2230

    "Beyond a Reasonable Doubt"

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 6:45pm

    #156

    Wildlife Tracker

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    Posts: 405

    Is that rope posted because

    Is that rope posted because you want me to hang myself? haha

    Thanks

    I'm going to visit Silver City/Virginia City Nevada today because I am in the area. A lot of great silver history in those towns. It should be a good time.

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 6:46pm

    Reply to #153

    Wildlife Tracker

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    The theory that is there is a

    The theory that is there is a Jewish banking cartel started by the Rothschilds that runs everything about the US government and as a result the US government is nothing but a submissive puppet to Israel.

    I don't buy it.

    I also don't believe that Israeli art students took down 3 buildings by setting up bombs on 1 floor of 1 building.

    Call me a misinformation agent, but I think that theory is flawed and dangerous and I am motivated to disprove it. 

     

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 6:55pm

    #157

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

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    Posts: 2230

    Ok then

    [quote=Wildlife Tracker]

    The theory that is there is a Jewish Zionist banking cartel started by the Rothschilds that runs everything about strongly influences the US government and as a result the US government is nothing but a submissive puppet to strongly influenced by Israel.

    [/quote]

    Who are the primary shareholders of the United States Federal Reserve?

    Why are there stacks of BB18 fuseholders next to Israeli art students on the 91st floor of one of the twin towers, two months before 9/11?

    With respect to 9/11 – "Cui bono"?

    By all means, go ahead.  We've been here before. I'll hold off on posting the "Gambits for Deception" graph this time around, everyone has seen it.

    With respect to the rope, I was just giving you some additional. You are already doing a great job of taking care of yourself.

     

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 6:56pm

    Reply to #153

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

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    Posts: 2230

    Ok then

    [quote=Wildlife Tracker]

    I also don't believe that Israeli art students took down 3 buildings by setting up bombs on 1 floor of 1 building.

    [/quote]

    LOL

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 7:06pm

    Reply to #153

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

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    Posts: 405

    LOL?

    You posted this article…

    WORLD TRADE CENTER’S INFAMOUS 91ST-FLOOR ISRAELI ‘ART STUDENT’ PROJECT

    91st floor art project. 91st FLOOR….. not FLOORS

    The fact that you insist that I should hang myself makes is very clear to me that you are not worth the discussion. Carry on spreading bad information.

    I won't confuse you or anybody else here with government propaganda. Good thing I did not go to Rowe the year you went.

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 7:31pm

    #158

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

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    Posts: 2230

    Meh...

    The rope is representative of an idiom.

    id·i·om
    หˆidฤ“ษ™m/
    noun
    1. 1.
      a group of words established by usage as having a meaning not deducible from those of the individual words (e.g., rain cats and dogssee the light ).
       

    In this case, "to give (someone) enough rope to hang himself".  

    Meaning: To allow (someone) to accomplish his own downfall by his own acts.

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 7:36pm

    #159

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

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    Posts: 2230

    How Do These Puzzle Pieces Fit Together?

    The Rothschilds * Political Zionism * The Federal Reserve * The US Dollar * Ashkenazi * State of Israel

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 7:55pm

    #160

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

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    Posts: 405

    How do these puzzle pieces

    How do these puzzle pieces fit together

    Rockefellers * Oil * the US dollar * Iraq * banking * gold * The united states of america

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 8:04pm

    #161

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Wildfire

    Oh look…a squirrel.

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 8:10pm

    Reply to #160

    Wildlife Tracker

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    Posts: 405

    I think one of my favorite

    I think one of my favorite and under appreciated posts here was when Hugh posted a diagram of "how to tell if it's a witch" in response to your misinformation agent chart.

    That was hilarious and genius.

    He's a very smart guy and you also accused him of being a misinformation agent.I think that if I am categorized with Hugh, that might actually be a kind of complement. Thank you for that.

    I'll tell you what, I will be in Virginia City in an hour. You can challenge me to a duel. My self-defense gun is on the other side of the country and all I have is a three-inch pocket knife. The odds are in your favor and it sounds like you would be doing yourself and peak prosperity a favor.

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 8:13pm

    #162

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

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    Posts: 2230

    Nothin' but love man

    If I ever meet you in person Wildlife, I will give you a big hug and a kiss kiss.

    The Rothschilds * Political Zionism * The Federal Reserve * The US Dollar * Ashkenazi * State of Israel

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  • Fri, Nov 20, 2015 - 9:08pm

    #163

    Time2help

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    Posts: 2230

    Food for thought

    Comment #280

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  • Sat, Nov 21, 2015 - 12:50am

    #164

    nickbert

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

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    Posts: 260

    Circle of Concern vs. Circle of Influence

    I enjoy looking at things and situations and figuring out how they work and come together, and I'm willing to muse over stuff that appears outlandish (because every so often there is some element of truth therein or it leads to entirely new ideas and/or ways of looking at things).  But when it really comes down to it, most of this stuff are things that either 1) don't really affect me, or 2) I have no means to control or change.  I might muse on such things during idle hours or during work hours (but then I repeat myself cheeky), but I generally avoid spending too much time doing so and becoming personally invested in things beyond my control.  ESPECIALLY if it's a subject or issue that is an emotionally-charged one.  In Stephen Covey's book he presents the Circle of Concern and the Circle of Influence:

     

    In summary, there's nothing wrong with having your opinion (even if it is an unpopular one), but if that opinion is on something you have no control or real influence over, it's pointless to spending a lot of energy on it and let that opinion run or dominate your life.  It seemed that's what Dogs in a Pile was hinting at in post 198 when (responding to the Zionist/Congress infographic).he said "So What" and "Now what?".  I think that TBTB (no matter whoever they might ultimately be) would be panicking and shitting bricks if the population as a whole spent more of their time on their respective Circles of Influence, because a large amount of their power seems to be in deception, distraction, and the manipulation of people.

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  • Sat, Nov 21, 2015 - 1:40am

    Reply to #164

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

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    Posts: 1814

    Cockroaches

    I think that TBTB (no matter whoever they might ultimately be) would be panicking and shitting bricks if the population as a whole spent more of their time on their respective Circles of Influence, because a large amount of their power seems to be in deception, distraction, and the manipulation of people.

    A good point NB.

    But it is completely unreasonable to expect us to just shrug and walk away from these crimes. Cockroaches live in the dark.  They hate the light. 

    First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Socialist.
     
    Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
     
    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Jew.
     
    Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
    Niemöller's critique of intellectuals. 
    We are all Intellectuals on this site.  No matter how poorly we do at it. 
     
     

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  • Sat, Nov 21, 2015 - 2:12am

    Reply to #164

    Time2help

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    @#[email protected]#$ cockroaches

    [quote]“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” – Edmund Burke[/quote]

    [quote=Arthur Robey]We are all Intellectuals on this site. No matter how poorly we do at it.[/quote]

    That's a quote worthy of framing ๐Ÿ˜‰  God knows I could use a copy.

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  • Sat, Nov 21, 2015 - 2:13am

    Reply to #164

    nickbert

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    Posts: 260

    There's a difference

    Arthur,

    There's a difference between focusing one's energies on things in one's circle of influence versus giving everything outside that circle a complete pass.  For example, I may not be able to really influence the stranglehold the big banks have on the US and the world, or kick out of office the power-mad fascists in the US government that are so eager to go to war.  But I'm certainly not going to trust them or forget their transgressions, and I can still withhold support to said entities or persons.  It's not about forgetting or ignoring, it's just about choosing to focus one's energies where they have maximum effect and utility.

     

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  • Sat, Nov 21, 2015 - 2:36am

    #165

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

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    Posts: 405

    Virginia City was amazing by the way

    They have a to-scale model of the shafts of the Comstock Lode in one of the museums. I have never seen anything like it. The shafts went as far as 3,000ft in the 1800s  and it was structured like an ant or termite colony with dozens of shafts going in every direction.

    Very Very cool. Makes me appreciate my Morgan silver dollars more.

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  • Sat, Nov 21, 2015 - 2:42am

    Reply to #164

    Wildlife Tracker

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    Posts: 405

    You guys suck at research

    10 mins of research.

    This Austrian art group. Not Israeli. These goof balls pictured here…

    These artists that made this giant bunny doll

    planted bombs on ONE floor in ONE building, and successfully knocked down three trade center buildlings.

    THIS deserves a big LOL 

    Here is the NY Times article about their project

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  • Sat, Nov 21, 2015 - 3:12am

    #166

    Time2help

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    Posts: 2230

    Ok then

    I hereby petition for, and demand, a truly independent investigation with subpoena power in order to uncover the full truth surrounding:

    1. The events of September 11, 2001 – specifically the collapses of the World Trade Center Towers and Building 7. I believe there is sufficient doubt about the official story and therefore the 9/11 investigation must be re-opened and must include a full inquiry into the possible use of explosives that may have been the actual cause of the destruction of the World Trade Center Twin Towers and Building 7.
    2. The possible involvement of the State of Israel, members of the Israeli government and Mossad in the events surrounding the September 11, 2001 terror attacks.
    3. Possible ongoing war crimes by the State of Israel upon the Sovereign People of the State of Palestine.
    4. The true ownership structure of the United States Federal Reserve Bank.

    In the interim, I personally withdraw any and all support, explicit or implied, for the State of Israel. I recommend that the United States cease all financial, diplomatic and military assistance to the same.

    As far as this American is concerned, until the questions raised above are answered…the State of Israel is on her own.

    I mean no ill will towards those of the Jewish faith, but I do believe it would be prudent for them to perform their own research and reach an objective understanding of the above events given the geopolitical stakes involved.

    Hard copies sent to congressional representatives in parallel with this posting.

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  • Sat, Nov 21, 2015 - 3:16am

    #167

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 405

    Israeli Art

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  • Sat, Nov 21, 2015 - 3:20am

    Reply to #166

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

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    Posts: 405

    T2H

    Don't you mean stop financial aid to Austria?

    Oh wait, we don't give Austria financial aid! How do we stop the madness!

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  • Sat, Nov 21, 2015 - 4:52am

    #168

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Meh

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  • Sat, Nov 21, 2015 - 5:12am

    Reply to #168

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

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    Posts: 405

    T2H

    Dude I had such a good laugh when I found those pictures. "Beyond a reasonable doubt" hahaha. I am going to tease you about this ENDLESSLY. You will probably have to quit Peak Prosperity.

    So you probably should have taken up my offer of a duel. Going back to the east coast on Monday.

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  • Sat, Nov 21, 2015 - 5:59am

    #169

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

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    Posts: 2230

    The Dynasty of Rothschild (Documentary)

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  • Sat, Nov 21, 2015 - 6:09am

    Reply to #169

    Wildlife Tracker

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    Posts: 405

    Yep the Jewish family

    What about those Christians?

    http://www.biography.com/people/john-d-rockefeller-20710159/videos/the-rockefellers-full-biography-10086467834

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  • Sat, Nov 21, 2015 - 8:19am

    #170

    Time2help

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    How would any of us feel in their shoes?

    What if it were your kid? Your home? Your land? How would you feel in their shoes?

    Not as clear cut as it would seem.

    Definitely some disconnect here:

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  • Sat, Nov 21, 2015 - 8:30am

    #171

    Time2help

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    Does anyone else here think this is joke?

    Does anyone seriously believe that these three steel framed buildings collapsed to dust near or at free-fall speed, due to office fires and jet fuel?

    This is WAR. Being waged against you to this day. A war against your freedom. Your children's future. Hell, humanities future.

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  • Sat, Nov 21, 2015 - 8:45am

    Reply to #170

    Wildlife Tracker

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    Posts: 405

    US killed 1,201 children in Iraq

    I don't understand why keep insisting on Israel being the hand of all evil. That is why I keep responding because I don't get it. 

    Think about where you got the information about Israeli artists in the trade center building. That information could not have been more wrong. It was not mis-interpreted information, but rather it was sold with the full intention of being a lie. It was an info trap for gullible people who listen to infowars and other for profit scare media who devote themselves to their information resources and think everything that comes out of those resources are a reality. You think the Israeli artist group was the only lie they sold you? There is so much bad information about 9/11 put out there. So much false information that it actually pushes people away from the truthful aspects of it. I remember watching Zeitgeist in college, then realizing how many bad selling points there was. It was loaded with lies similar to the Israeli artist group. I separated myself from the 9/11 truth movement because I could not tell which tidbits were lies and which were not. It's exhausting and most people come to the conclusion to believe the government. I did for a while.

    This is all on purpose I believe.

    All media has a bias or a propaganda goal. Zerohedge, like RT, has a pro-Russian bias. It's obvious, but I still love Zerohedge because they have some amazing articles, but if you do not think they have Russian backing than you are hopeless.

    Fact check everything before you sell it yourself.

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  • Sat, Nov 21, 2015 - 9:09am

    #172

    Time2help

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    Posts: 2230

    Shove your guilt you know where Wildlife

    [quote]The US Killed 1,201 Children In Iraq[/quote]

    And we went there because of what? 

     

     

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  • Sat, Nov 21, 2015 - 10:04am

    Reply to #172

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

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    Posts: 405

    Really?

    You just guilted Israel for killing Palestinians. How is that different from American killing Iraqis? That is the exact point I was making.

    And you know EXACTLY why we went there

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  • Sat, Nov 21, 2015 - 10:46am

    Reply to #171

    Michael_Rudmin

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 25 2014

    Posts: 848

    Does anyone believe? Yes, I do.

    I get really tired of the "scratch our noses around our elbows" conspiracy theories being constantly pounded.

    So let me answer your question, T2H.

    "Does anyone seriously believe that these three steel framed buildings collapsed to dust near or at free-fall speed, due to office fires and jet fuel?"

    Except for the fact that they were steel-and-concrete, and they collapsed to dust-and-wreckage, YES, I do.  And I am NOT a Professional Engineer, but I do have a BS in engineering, and have used those engineering skills for a long time now.

    I do bridges, not buildings (except for the piles which are common to both).  But the principles are the same.  And they are Steel and Concrete bridges, just like the buildings.

    You should have seen the video of when we had to demolish one of our girders.  It would have looked like a conspiracy, because as they crunched it in the middle, the thing stood strong, until they got the drape strand.  All of a sudden, the whole thing — 180' of it — developed vertical cracks, every 20', nowhere near the site of the demolition.

    If you knew what was going on inside the girder, it wouldn't have surprised.  But the point is… things don't always follow a layman's reasoned theories of what should happen.

     

     

     

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  • Sat, Nov 21, 2015 - 11:18am

    Reply to #171

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 405

    Michael, I don't understand

    Michael, I don't understand how 3 building did not collapse lopsided. Obviously as you said sometimes that just happens, but how did three buildings at the same time not fall lopsided? That's the only logical conspiracy that I have found.

    It's an interesting situation, but I don't believe any government  is to be more at blame than the US. That's all I have been trying to argue here.

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  • Sat, Nov 21, 2015 - 5:59pm

    Reply to #171

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Ah yes, conspiracy theories

    [quote=Michael_Rudmin]

    I get really tired of the "scratch our noses around our elbows" conspiracy theories being constantly pounded.

    So let me answer your question, T2H.

    "Does anyone seriously believe that these three steel framed buildings collapsed to dust near or at free-fall speed, due to office fires and jet fuel?"

    Except for the fact that they were steel-and-concrete, and they collapsed to dust-and-wreckage, YES, I do.  And I am NOT a Professional Engineer, but I do have a BS in engineering, and have used those engineering skills for a long time now.

    [/quote]

    You do understand that "steel framed buildings" and "steel-and-concrete" buildings are not mutually exclusive, yes?

    Here's what some Professional Engineers have to say about 9/11.

    So, either you can not see it for what it is due to a mental block of some sort, you are a poor engineer or you are a liar. Maybe some combination.

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  • Sat, Nov 21, 2015 - 6:00pm

    #173

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    How do these puzzle pieces fit together?

    The Rothschilds * Political Zionism * The Federal Reserve * The US Dollar * Ashkenazi * State of Israel

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  • Sat, Nov 21, 2015 - 6:57pm

    #174

    nickbert

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2009

    Posts: 260

    Time to step back for a spell and have a laugh...

     

    https://xkcd.com/386/

     

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  • Sat, Nov 21, 2015 - 7:01pm

    #175

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    LOL

    Amen to that.

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  • Sat, Nov 21, 2015 - 7:11pm

    #176

    pinecarr

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 13 2008

    Posts: 1085

    US Congresswoman Introduces Bill To Stop "Illegal" War On Assad;

    From ZH (the complete article at ZH includes a couple of video clips as well): http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-21/us-congresswoman-introduces-bill-stop-illegal-war-assad-says-cia-ops-must-stop

    Last month, US Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard went on CNN and laid bare Washington’s Syria strategy. 

    In a remarkably candid interview with Wolf Blitzer, Gabbard calls Washington’s effort to oust Assad “counterproductive” and “illegal” before taking it a step further and accusing the CIA of arming the very same terrorists who The White House insists are "sworn enemies.” 

    In short, Gabbard all but tells the American public that the government is lying to them and may end up inadvertently starting “World War III.”

    ….

    That was before Paris.

    Well, in the wake of the attacks, Gabbard has apparently had just about enough of Washington vacilating in the fight against terror just so the US can ensure that ISIS continues to destabilize Assad and now, with bi-partisan support, the brazen Hawaii Democrat has introduced legislation to end the "illegal war" to overthrow Assad. 

    Gabbard, who fought in Iraq – twice – has partnered with Republican Adam Scott on the bill. Here's AP

    In an unusual alliance, a House Democrat and Republican have teamed up to urge the Obama administration to stop trying to overthrow Syrian President Bashar Assad and focus all its efforts on destroying Islamic State militants.

    Reps. Tulsi Gabbard, a Democrat, and Austin Scott, a Republican, introduced legislation on Friday to end what they called an "illegal war" to overthrow Assad, the leader of Syria accused of killing tens of thousands of Syrian citizens in a more than four-year-old civil war entangled in a battle against IS extremists, also known as ISIS.

    "The U.S. is waging two wars in Syria," Gabbard said. "The first is the war against ISIS and other Islamic extremists, which Congress authorized after the terrorist attack on 9/11. The second war is the illegal war to overthrow the Syrian government of Assad."

    Scott said, "Working to remove Assad at this stage is counter-productive to what I believe our primary mission should be."

    Since 2013, the CIA has trained an estimated 10,000 fighters, although the number still fighting with so-called moderate forces is unclear. CIA-backed rebels in Syria, who had begun to put serious pressure on Assad's forces, are now under Russian bombardment with little prospect of rescue by their American patrons, U.S. officials say.

    For years, the CIA effort had foundered — so much so that over the summer, some in Congress proposed cutting its budget. Some CIA-supported rebels had been captured; others had defected to extremist groups.

    Gabbard complained that Congress has never authorized the CIA effort, though covert programs do not require congressional approval, and the program has been briefed to the intelligence committees as required by law, according to congressional aides who are not authorized to be quoted discussing the matter.

    Gabbard contends the effort to overthrow Assad is counter-productive because it is helping IS topple the Syrian leader and take control of all of Syria. If IS were able to seize the Syrian military's weaponry, infrastructure and hardware, the group would become even more dangerous than it is now and exacerbate the refugee crisis.

    And make no mistake, Tulsi's understanding of Washington's absurd Mid-East policy goes far beyond Syria. That is, Gabbard fully grasps the big picture as well. Here's what she has to say about the idea that the US should everywhere and always attempt to overthrow regimes when human rights groups claim there's evidence of oppression:

    "People said the very same thing about Saddam (Hussein), the very same thing about (Moammar) Gadhafi, the results of those two failed efforts of regime change and the following nation-building have been absolute, not only have they been failures, but they've actually worked to strengthen our enemy."

    …So there's hope for the US public after all.

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  • Sat, Nov 21, 2015 - 7:11pm

    #177
    pat the rat

    pat the rat

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Nov 01 2011

    Posts: 109

    distraction

    When you use a distraction it is for a reason ? Isis is loosing on the battle field in Iraq. 

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  • Sat, Nov 21, 2015 - 7:20pm

    #178

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 405

    huh

    Israel will forever be the bad guy for you eh? You have to blame somebody right?

    You have been completely sold by the agenda-driven anti-semitic lie machine… You are a sponge.

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  • Sat, Nov 21, 2015 - 8:42pm

    Reply to #171

    mememonkey

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Nov 01 2009

    Posts: 100

    Occams Thermite

    [quote=Michael_Rudmin]

    I get really tired of the "scratch our noses around our elbows" conspiracy theories being constantly pounded.

    So let me answer your question, T2H.

    "Does anyone seriously believe that these three steel framed buildings collapsed to dust near or at free-fall speed, due to office fires and jet fuel?"

    Except for the fact that they were steel-and-concrete, and they collapsed to dust-and-wreckage, YES, I do.  And I am NOT a Professional Engineer, but I do have a BS in engineering, and have used those engineering skills for a long time now.

    [/quote]

     

    I get really tired of the "Insert head in ass" conformity theories

    Engineering can by it's complexity lend itself to obfuscation.

    While there are reams of evidence supporting controlled demolition including first responder eyewitness' reports describing the explosions ,video evidence of pyroclastic flows, sequential squib charges visible in building seven collapse etc etc.

    The most basic proof  is a matter of simple physics, the free fall speed of collapse can't be explained without removing the supporting 'friction' of the vertical columns instantaneously.  This is accomplished by blowing them up with some variety of Thermite (probably thermate) SOP for controlled demolition.  The official explanation of a pancake collapse is demonstrably ludicrous It cannot explain the near free fall speed of the collapse.  Unless, the evildoers, managed to suspend the laws of physics.

    The publicly avail evidence of molten steel days after the collapse is physical evidence of the effects of some form of thermite.   Av Gas, diesel,  office furniture etc. cannot burn hot enough to render steel into molten globs of iron. It is simply  not physically possible.  Thermite does exactly that.

    It is understandable that the  implications that flow from these basic facts are hard to accept and believe. but if you can get past the monstrosity of it and begin to look at the entirety of the evidence and circumstances it becomes overwhelmingly clear that 9'11 was a giant psy op and the official narrative is bullshit.

     

    mememonkey

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  • Sat, Nov 21, 2015 - 8:50pm

    Reply to #171

    Bankers Slave

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jul 26 2012

    Posts: 513

    Molten steel Michael molten ah forget about it!

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  • Sat, Nov 21, 2015 - 9:23pm

    #179

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    How do these puzzle pieces fit together?

    Carbon Blob * darbikrash * HughK * Markreis * Michael_Rudmin * Wildlife Tracker * Windlord

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  • Sat, Nov 21, 2015 - 9:45pm

    Reply to #179

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 405

    hmmm

    Are we Jewish?

    http://www.rense.com/general87/14_1.htm

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  • Sat, Nov 21, 2015 - 9:47pm

    #180

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Re: Are we Jewish?

    I have no idea.

    But he is:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etXAm-OylQQ

    And I believe him.

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  • Sat, Nov 21, 2015 - 9:55pm

    Reply to #180

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 405

    US weapon planting

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  • Sat, Nov 21, 2015 - 11:06pm

    #181

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    Got to find that reset button.

    Take a look at ourselves.

    Fighting like amoeba on a petri dish. 

    I mean, just stop it. We have much bigger Fish to fry. We have got 35 years to find land for the next 9 billion people. 

    And we are not going to find it in the petri dish. 

    Somebody has got to find the reset button

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  • Sat, Nov 21, 2015 - 11:08pm

    Reply to #171

    Michael_Rudmin

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 25 2014

    Posts: 848

    Quick set of questions, mememonkey

    Mememonkey:

    I have a quick set of questions:  How does a welder's torch work?  Why does it work?  What does a welder's torch do?  What fuel does a welder's torch use?  Now answer the same question for a bellows, and for a civil war era steel smelting furnace.

    In the case of a bellows, it isn't the fuel that makes the temperature, nearly as much as it is the macroscopic structure, and the application of air. 

    Now look at that building again.  Now look at this neat ranger wood gas camp stove, and the russian 24-brick design.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VX1CgxlpLM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdR6WXggiKQ

    Do you see the rocket-stove design of a 1-skyscraper-plus-JPL ? 

    I remain yet unconvinced that JPL cannot melt steel at the required temperatures.  Add air, and you have the makings of a very effective torch.

     

     

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  • Sat, Nov 21, 2015 - 11:09pm

    Reply to #178

    debu

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 16 2009

    Posts: 36

    WT: the Anti-semitism card been rendered obsolete by hasbara

    So by conflating Zionism with Judaism criticism of Israel now becomes anti-semitism?
    That seems to be the hasbara trope you are applying.

    There is much about what Arthur and T2H have to say with which I don’t agree but the playing of the anti-semitism card when Israel is criticized, rightly or wrongly, is getting very old.

    I would be a bit careful of projecting “agenda-driven” motives on others when the skirt of your passionate attachment to a foreign country that George Washington warned us about is showing.

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  • Sat, Nov 21, 2015 - 11:58pm

    Reply to #171

    Michael_Rudmin

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 25 2014

    Posts: 848

    Explosive forming and molten steel

    Ba.Sl.,

    Your video makes an excellent case that the NIST people were charged with "putting this to bed as quickly as possible", and thus were willfully blind.  It was all a publicity trial.  But it does not make any kind of case that explosives were used. 

    I've already (a few posts above this one) made the case that JPL *can* melt the steel with a Catherine furnace structure around it (that is, a gasifying stove).  I've made the case that the building would make such a structure. 

    Now I'm going to make the case that it couldn't have been explosives. 

    Explosive forming is used because of its advantages over such forming methods as casting and welding.  One of the main advantages is that high temperatures are not reached, so the steel remains strong and is not weakened.  In line with that, if there were thermite charges that brought the building down, they would have to have detonated, not conflagrated.  Therefore, they would not have significantly raised the temperature of the steel.  The very fact that steel melted — and it is clear that the temperatures were sufficient to do so — tells me that it wasn't explosives that melted the steel.  It was conflagration.

    I am not against the idea that our government may have been involved in this.  I certainly believe that the nature of our government to conspire showed itself in their automatic reactions to cover, not to show, the truth. 

    But I do not see the case made that explosives dropped the building.  I see, rather, evidence that the buildings were dropped according to Occam's Razor:  that the simplest explanation is the best, and the simplest explanation was that the jet fuel fire caused the building to fall.

    P.S.:  I am not surprised that the fires were still burning 8 weeks later.  It's not so much that they were burning still, but simply slowly burning much as the tire fire in Pennsylvania, and then reigniting more violently when they were dug up.  Concrete has a lot of water in it, and has a large thermal mass.  Again, the descriptions of the people at the job site seem accurate:  there was molten metal, there were fires 8 weeks later, there was a mix of concrete dust and steel.  Oh, and steel-toed-boots had a very short time of utility.

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  • Sat, Nov 21, 2015 - 11:58pm

    #182
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1612

    Could do some nice spuds in

    Could do some nice spuds in that.

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  • Sun, Nov 22, 2015 - 12:23am

    Reply to #178

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 405

    I'm a black Irish atheist

    I'm a black Irish atheist with some Swiss German in the mix born in the midwest, living in New England.

    I don't care about Israel. I don't see how what they are doing in Palestine is any different than what Saudi Arabia is doing in Yemen. Genocides happen everywhere. Arthur feels that it is happening in South Africa. Maybe it is, I don't know. Why is Israel exceptional?

    I will tell you what though. When somebody mentions the Rothschilds over the Rockefellers or the Morgans or the Waltons. I know what they are trying to sell me.

    The resources that are spreading lies about an Austrian artist group, baselessly calling them Mossad agents (they are non-Jewish Austrians), look for ways to change as story so that they can reinforce their belief that the Rothschild family and as a result Israel because of their faith runs the world. So many lies have even been posted in this thread. I have refuted several of them. Not because I am a Mossad agent (sorry T2H), but because I like facts and coming to the best conclusion possible based on the available information. 

    I feel as if I have only posted facts and my opinion based on those facts, and if you catching me telling a lie. Call me on it. That's how we learn.

    You don't learn without somebody challenging your belief system

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  • Sun, Nov 22, 2015 - 12:25am

    Reply to #179

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    ?

    Carbon Blob * darbikrash * HughK * Markreis * Michael_Rudmin * Wildlife Tracker * Windlord

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  • Sun, Nov 22, 2015 - 1:02am

    Reply to #178

    debu

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 16 2009

    Posts: 36

    Hasbara "What about-ism"?

    To state that

    I don't care about Israel. I don't see how what they are doing in Palestine is any different than what Saudi Arabia is doing in Yemen.

    is to show either profound historical ignorance or willful blindness. Some might even consider it a lie. PP.com, however, is not the place for that discussion. Take it to Mondoweiss.net. Your belief system will face a very rigorous challenge in short order there.

    Why is Israel exceptional?

    Or, rather, why is Israel so exceptional to you? What is your game?

    Black, Irish, atheist or hasbara-bot? One wonders…

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  • Sun, Nov 22, 2015 - 1:36am

    Reply to #179

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 405

    T2H

    Thanks Time2Help,

    Do you know why you are here at Peak Prosperity? It's because you thrive at knowing there are other people that share your belief system. That's great.

    However, there are some here who also have a strong belief system, and they are here because they want that belief system challenged. That's how they know they are right. Arthur Robey, Sand.Puppy, HughK are members who WANT to have their belief system challenged. I can learn from these people. I WANT to learn from these people.

    You on the other hand want confirmation in your belief system and when somebody challenges that belief you call them Israeli agents. You line them up in a list and call them out and tell them to go back to highschool. That's great.

    I will tell you this though. I can't learn from you. I don't want to learn from you because you are not wise. You are very smart, but you are not wise.

    You have nothing to offer that I want. 

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  • Sun, Nov 22, 2015 - 2:00am

    #183
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1612

    You know what, whatever

    You know what, whatever happened to the metal of the twin towers, it's a minor point compared to the real driver of all this trouble which is the idea that god is speaking to some certain people telling them they are special. God isn't doing that, so it's all a fight over, literally, nothing worthwhile. The scientific truth of a melting point is a drop in the ocean compared with the mass of ancient superstition.

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  • Sun, Nov 22, 2015 - 2:33am

    Reply to #178

    Wildlife Tracker

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2012

    Posts: 405

    I'm white. black Irish is a

    I'm white. black Irish is a term for Irish folk with black hair. Re-reading that post, it totally sounded like I was saying I was black. Sorry.

     

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  • Sun, Nov 22, 2015 - 2:34am

    #184
    robie robinson

    robie robinson

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 25 2009

    Posts: 864

    the Waltons?

    no conspiracy here…https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpmRcP8S7Bo

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  • Sun, Nov 22, 2015 - 2:38am

    Reply to #183