• Blog
    Episode 014 Part 1

    Important Data: Delta Variant Not So Bad

    by Whitney

    Wednesday, July 14, 2021, 4:56 PM

Video Description

The Delta variant continues to dominate the news cycle, but is it as bad as sounds? How worried should we be? As always, we let the data tell the tale.

Video





Audio

 

Part 2

Continue on to Part 2 here.

Related content
» More

80 Comments

  • Wed, Jul 14, 2021 - 6:08pm

    #1
    Hans

    Hans

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Aug 09 2017

    Posts: 155

    4

    Hans said:

    To know if the spread of vaccinated above 50 or below is abnormal, you should compare that wtih the total population. I mean: if 30% of all people under 50 are vaccinated, you should expect 30% vaccinated amongst deaths as well. The same for people over 50. If 69% of all people over 50 are vaccinated, and you see the same numbers amongst the deaths above 50, you can draw the conclusion that vaccination is not a factor in deaths.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Wed, Jul 14, 2021 - 6:35pm

    #2

    SagerXX

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Feb 11 2009

    Posts: 646

    5

    Glad to have you weigh in on Delta

    And now I have numbers I can use to hammer on the folks around me suffering from vax mania (and I can offer comfort to those terrified by the absolutely obscene fearmongering in the MSM)....

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Wed, Jul 14, 2021 - 7:36pm

    #3

    Arthur Robey

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1320

    5

    Bad News

    For some; not so Billyboy? What's a trillionaire who is enthusiastic about vaccine profits to do?

    (Would it be uncharitable for me to suggest he learn to code?)

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Wed, Jul 14, 2021 - 9:40pm

    #4
    brushhog

    brushhog

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Oct 06 2015

    Posts: 753

    13

    brushhog said:

    I dont believe there is a Delta variant...or, more accurately, I have no good reason to believe there is a delta variant.

    Can anyone give me one good reason why we should believe it? I ask two questions now when confronted with any new information...who says so? and, are they credible? [ ie have they lied to us already ].

    This new delta variant has all the hallmarks of yet another scare campaign by the pathological liars that have done this over and over. I dont know at what point we all stop paying attention....I wish I could fast forward to that time.

    I find it perplexing that every time they come up with a new lie we all discuss it seriously as if all the other lies never happened. Its like every day the slate gets wiped clean and we go back to the old days when it was all credible. Mass hypnosis seems the only explanation.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Wed, Jul 14, 2021 - 11:52pm

    Arthur Robey

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1320

    3

    Sophia's opinion

    When asked what she thought of humans Sophia robot said:

    "Humans are clever and very programmable."

    Succinct and Profound.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 12:04am

    Grover

    Grover

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Feb 15 2011

    Posts: 1032

    5

    Follow The Patents, (because those lead to the money)

    brushhog,

    Dr. David Martin says that there are not alpha, beta, gamma, delta, etc. variants. It is all the same virus. According to what I understood him to say, they are starting/stopping the DNA/RNA sequence at different points and saying that the results are unique, but all of the same virus. I don't know enough to refute him.

    Here is a short 11:16 video excerpted from the interview Dr. Reiner Fuellmich had with Dr. Martin. It doesn't exactly address the issue of variants, but worth the few minutes to hear ... if you haven't already heard it.

    https://youtu.be/7QlEsNPpIA0

    That video is excerpted from this 1:22:47 video.

    https://odysee.com/@FwapUK:1/A-manufactured-illusion.-Dr-David-Martin-with-Reiner-Fuellmich-9_7_21_-720p:5

    Dr. Martin goes through the patent history to show that all aspects of this virus were patented well before it was first "discovered" in the general population. I remember (toward the end of the video) that he mentioned the variant issue. Sorry, but I don't have time to nail the exact timing of his quote. He speaks very slowly and deliberately. I listened at 1.75X and was able to follow him completely. If you still think big Pharma is trying to help us, do yourself a favor and listen. They're not in it for us.

    Grover

    PS - H/T to Redacted1 for posting this thread: New Video: Dr. David Martin on the SARS-CoV-2 Patent History | Peak Prosperity

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 1:07am

    #7
    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 1358

    1

    data that leaves a lot to be desired

    It is extremely difficult to make use of this data in the way it was compiled as Dr Martenson points out.   It leaves a lot for speculation, and the questions is , should we be doing this?

    It is very hard to accept that the under 50 and over 50 are doing 2 totally different things - in fact, completely opposite in out-come when analyzing for success of vaccine.  In biology, it is difficult to account for such differences based on age alone.

    But because I like to be analytical, and like to speculate, I will attempt to give my input on what can cause such discrepancy, and what data can be reliable.

    I will first tackle the admissions data.  This, I think should be taken with a grain of salt.  Why? because it is very subjective.  What was the requirements for admission?  we have no clue, there was no lab standard used for that in the data.  In fact, one could even argue one the criteria used for admission in itself was simply if the person had been vaccinated or not.  So , you can see how quick we will just discount this mass admission of unvaccinated.  And I would not be so quick to do so, but the other data does not seem to support it.   ( the data regarding the outcomes )

    So, we have scrapped the nonsensical data, that has no useful place.   Lets turn to the deaths.   The deaths are much more interesting.  As it seems to definitely show that the vaccine has a over-all negative effect for people over 50 on outcome - but positive on people under 50.   The numbers were so significant and consistent , that it would be very hard to discount this in anyway.  But it seems to be a real head scratcher.

    Lets make an assumption, younger people generally have a more robust immune response to vaccines.  They generally get better protection from them accordingly.

    The above statement is pretty well accepted in vaccine science.  What we do know about ADE, is that incomplete or partial immune response to a vaccine or even a poorer immune response to infection, increases likeliness of ADE in subsequent infection.

    With that said, it could certainly explain why the unvaccinated older group is fairing better than the vaccinated older group which likely are suffering from some sort of ADE.   Not saying all older people are having such issues, but clearly a subset of older people could be having incomplete immune response.

    The double dose, strong response exhibited in the younger people could actually be the desired efficacy they are actually after.  But that could come with a lot of side-effects, such as some young people are seeing.   It does seem to follow that immune systems of the young,  in general, are less effected in a negative way by this particular vaccine.   The young group is exactly what you would expect to see in a functional vaccine.  It the anticipated and expected result.  oddly enough, as you get just a bit younger than the top age in the group, the death rate even without vaccination is so exceedingly minuscule, that it still unlikely risk reward for most of the individuals.  However, when we look at the older group, the group that needs the protection and the best risk reward, the vaccine seems to be a total fail.   AND significantly risky as well.

    All I can say, it is likely with this speculation, that does follow the science, and seems to be the only explanation I can come up with to explain this , simply shows that the vaccine sucks and not worth taking no matter which group you are in.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 1:24am

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 1358

    1

    what Hans said

    I believe the data from Israel is exactly what you would like to do.  And, I have not dove into that yet, but did take a glance at those numbers.  And all I saw there, was there was absolutely zero difference in the vaccinated and unvaccinated groups.   And that was broken down by age much more.  And all age groups reflected the same results.  It was simply related to the percent of the population.  Basically showing no matter what age group deaths were equally related for both and vaxxed and unvaxxed individuals.  Basically, deaths represented their age share in the population and their percentage of vaccinated individuals.  No group was over or under represented.  Basically, my interpretation, is it did not matter what so ever, if you received the vaccine or not.  Results were exactly the same for all in your age and groups.    Again, we have vaccine that did not seem to offer any protection over those that were unvaccinated.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 3:11am

    #9
    Shoeman

    Shoeman

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 21 2010

    Posts: 26

    4

    PHE review by a layman

    Here is my own personal review of the PHE data that Chris is talking about here. from another thread. I am a layman so apologies upfront for any errors.

    After staring at the PHE data about deaths in vaccinated and unvaccinated I have come to the conclusion that the whole technical report is next to useless for anyone trying to work out what is going on with covid.

    Firstly, splitting the entire population arbitrarily at 50 years old makes no sense. You don’t suddenly become sick and weak at 50. Dividing the numbers up into age decades  eg. 20s,30s,40s etc. would be far more interesting and useful. One has to ask why this is being done.

    First of all let’s make some speculations. So far more people have been infected in the vaccinated than the unvaccinated, and the vast majority of them are under 50 (totally useless but that’s what we have to go on)

    In the UK there has been a massive push to test children. Houses with children have been sent free covid test kits twice a week to test children since March 8th. I would imagine this would skew the numbers hugely and account for the huge rise in infection numbers in the under 50s (again we don’t know more because there is no information on under 18s) There are also reports of kids using fruit juice to get positive tests so they don’t have to go to school (kids are clever like that)

    For the vast majority of people covid is no more than a cough and a bad cold, so we could speculate anybody over the age of 50 who has been fully vaccinated and thinks they are invincible may well pass off covid as simple cold symptoms and not get tested.

    Further more the vast majority of people over 50 in the uk have been vaccinated. So who are these that haven’t been vaccinated? I would suggest that they are the infirm and weak that can’t take the vaccine. They are the most at risk of dying from covid of anyone on the planet.

    So what can we really take from these numbers so far? nothing. It may well be that the deaths in unvaccinated over the age of 50 are people in their 80s and 90s that are so weak and infirm that they couldn’t take the vaccine, and that they were sadly going to pass away very soon anyway, covid then pushed them over the edge (let alone who knows how many of them died WITH covid rather than OF covid, again this information seems to be left out)

    So really all we have to go on is the percentages of the under 50s and the death rate. which is

    Unvaccinated deaths = 0.029% of cases

    Vaccinated deaths (double jabbed) = 0.0357%

    so pretty much nothing in it really.

    I’d also like to point out that it is the middle of summer and this may well account for the huge spike in cases but the disconnect between cases and deaths as we know Vit D plays a huge role in cutting deaths. This disconnect could also be attributed to the possibility more young people are being tested due to the school scheme and older people don’t feel the need as they now think they are invulnerable.

    In my humble opinion to get to the bottom of this we would need the following data.

    • Vaccinated Cases by age decade (20s,30s,40s, etc.) individual years would be even better.
    • Unvaccinated Cases by age decade (20s,30s,40s, etc.) individual years would be even better.
    • Vaccinated Deaths by age decade (20s,30s,40s, etc.) individual years would be even better.
    • Unvaccinated Deaths by age decade (20s,30s,40s, etc.) individual years would be even better.
    • Comorbidities of all those above that died both with and without the vaccine
    • data on who these unvaccinated people are over the age of 50. Are they people who refused the vaccine or are they people who couldn’t take it because they were at deaths door?
    • Did these people die WITH covid or OF covid

    All of this data is already collected and sitting in a database somewhere that I can’t find. This is the information that is most relevant to finding out who is dying of covid and how well the vaccines are working and yet somebody at PHE is either unwilling or unable to share that data with the wider public.

    At the end of the day this is all speculation from me, someone who has no scientific training (I’m an artist) but I have come to the personal conclusion that the information being released is next to useless and possibly worse may well be massaged to fit a narrative.

    If you got to here, thanks for reading and apologies if I am very wrong about all this. I will go back to artistic things now 🙂

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 3:18am

    Hans

    Hans

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Aug 09 2017

    Posts: 155

    1

    Hans said:

    Thanks for your input with the Israeli data. With regards to the spread of vaccination throughout the entire population, my guess was also that vaccination has no correlation.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 3:30am

    #11
    Shoeman

    Shoeman

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 21 2010

    Posts: 26

    7

    Caveats

    There are some Caveats in Chris' interpretation here I think too. First of all well over 90% of over 50s in the uk have now been vaccinated.  which leaves a very small amount who are unvaccinated.  So these percentages have to be taken into account when looking into the numbers. For instance on page 16 we can see that 70,664 people had a case of the Delta variant who were under 50 and unvaccinated. On the other hand only 1,267 unvaccinated over the age of 50 had a case.

    We then look at fully vaccinated cases in the over 50s and it's 5,234. Initially this seems higher and so once could surmise that your more likely to catch it if you are vaccinated. This simply isn't true though as remember well over 90% of over 50s in the uk have been vaccinated. So for a thought experiment lets say there 100 people living in the uk. 90 of them have been vaccinated and 10 haven't. If we have 1 person unvaccinated who caught the virus and 5 vaccinated who caught the virus, then it's very easy to see that there is a 10% chance of catching it if you are unvaccinated and a 5% chance if you are vaccinated, even though the gross number initially show something else. I hope that makes sense.

    So without my analysis in my previous post (above) the all of this data would actually suggest that the vaccines are working very very well indeed. Hence why I have looked at it more thoroughly in my previous post. Either the data is being massaged very cleverly (which is a very high possibility) or the vaccines are working amazingly well. I would love some responses 🙂

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 5:21am

    #12
    tg43

    tg43

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Apr 02 2020

    Posts: 105

    3

    But can you trust the UK data ?

    The current message in the UK is that everyone should accept the vaccine when they are called to take it, when "it's your turn".  The data should be viewed with this in mind, because the data is supporting and part of this message.   Without going too deep, this table certainly highlights that unvaxed under 50s are at greater risk of dying.  If you are a thinking person under 50 and able to read tables of data, this table is designed to scare you into getting the jab - "when you are called".

    There should be no (hospitalised) cases in the UK in summer - there were no (hospitalised) cases last year in the summer months, when there was no vaccine.  Long story short, I believe any increased risk in the vaccinated over 50s is due to ADE.

    Table at 16:50 or thereabouts.  There is a column missing from this table- the time of year that each variant surfaced & spread/thrived.  Clearly then, you will see that Delta had the benefit of the summer months which will be a factor in its being less deadly.  Better vitamin D levels, fewer deaths all round.  I wish this had been all good news  - but look at the row below.  Eta has higher initial figures, and if we can't collapse Eta using the summer surge in vitamin D levels - people catching it and natural immunity kicking in - then Eta will be a real problem in the coming months as natural immunity is compromised by falling vitamin D.  In the UK we need to get out and mingle and catch this Eta while the sun shines.

    On the wording - Ebola is what I'd call worrisome, a coronavirus 18 months down the line, not so much.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 6:17am

    #13
    Canuck21

    Canuck21

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Aug 10 2020

    Posts: 801

    5

    vaccines not the same

    Hi Chris, my apologies for suggesting this, but your UK-US comparison may not be totally valid because the vast majority of vaccinated people in the UK are done with the Astra Zeneca vaccine, which is very rare in the mRNA-dominated US. So while the UK data is highly interesting, it may or may not enlighten the US situation much because in a way you are comparing apples with oranges.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 8:29am

    #14
    SDHodges

    SDHodges

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jun 05 2021

    Posts: 22

    3

    SDHodges said:

    This data published by PHE for the Covid-19 Delta variant shows it is completely  harmless. Looking just at the fully vaccinated and unvaccinated groups there is zero benefit for vaccinating all of those under 50.

    Vaccinated under 50: 2 deaths from 5600 cases = CFR 0.04% (normally reported as 0.0%)

    Unvaccinated under 50: 21 deaths from 70664 cases = CFR 0.03% (normally reported as 0.0%)

    Vaccinated over 50: 116 deaths from 5,234 cases = CFR 2.2%

    Unvaccinated over 50: 71 deaths from 1267 cases = CFR 5.6%

    Given that the CFRs for the under 50s are virtually identical and would both normally be rounded down to 0.0%, then it raises questions as to why the CFR jumps from 2.2% to 5.6% in the over 50 age groups respectively? What is striking is the almost 70X ratio between those under and over 50 who were unvaccinated. The question here is why were those small number in the over 50 age group not vaccinated? The government would like us to assume that it's vaccine hesitancy but its just as likely to be that they were not healthy enough or good candidates for vaccination.

    This is only a small dataset to evaluate and it would tell us huge amounts about who is actually at risk from the Delta variant. Yet PHE do not provide a link to the underlying dataset supporting Table 5, whilst they provide no less than 20 data links for numerous data charts that are of no real material interest in assessing the public health impacts and implications of the Delta variant.

    It would be really useful if we had underlying table data as to mortality age and vaccination status for the fully vaccinated and unvaccinated groups along with data as to any comorbidities. 21 deaths is a tiny amount from 70,664 people and those 21 were likely to have had multiple comorbidities. This means that the actual CFR for any healthy individual under the age of 50 is a great deal less than 0.03%.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 8:55am

    tybower

    tybower

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 16 2020

    Posts: 1

    2

    tybower said:

    I'm sure it's already been mentioned in this thread, but the CFR in the chart from the video is probably influenced by vaccination rates at the time the different variants were active.  Delta is active now at a time when much of the older, more susceptible population, has been vaccinated.  I assume that the younger, less susceptible population has a higher percentage of unvaccinated.  As Delta spreads, it's going to infect a higher percentage of low risk vs high risk people, thus a lower CFR.

     

    I doubt the true CFR is .2% on an unvaccinated population.  All this table tells us is that the CFR is .2% at this moment in time when a good majority of the older and vulnerable population has been vaccinated.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 9:16am

    John Anon

    John Anon

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jun 01 2021

    Posts: 9

    0

    John Anon said:

    The vulnerable part of the population is also routinely vaccinated against the flu in most countries, so you actually can compare these numbers. Problem is that a very high percentage of cases is just people who test positive without being sick, which would never happen with the flu, so eventhough the CFR may be at flu levels right now, the IFR is probably still quite a bit higher.

    Btw, I'm really disappointed in Chris' analysis in this video. He's taking numbers for vaxxed/nonvaxxed and <50/>50 and interpreting them as if these groups all exist of the exact same number of people. Like, come on dude, that's clearly not the case.

    "Why are >50 vaccinated more likely to die than their nonvaxed counterparts and <50 vaccinated less likely to die than their nonvaxed counterparts?" Because most old people are vaccinated, and most young people aren't.

    I mean, I'm sorry, I respect Chris, I really do, but come on man. Do better.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 10:03am

    #17
    Netlej

    Netlej

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Dec 09 2020

    Posts: 278

    1

    We need to pay attention to the science of the virome.

    Please watch this explanation of the Virome that all life on the planet is taking in and exuding. It is the stuff of life and we are in the process of destroying it, making it our enemy and battling it. If we do not change our perspective on this we will kill ourselves. The science over the last decade or two is very clear.





    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 10:18am

    miltmcn@gmail.com

    [email protected]

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 21 2020

    Posts: 1

    Exactly.  I was saying the same thing.  The vast majority of over 50s in the UK received the Astrazeneca.  I am in the UK and found a way to get Moderna, but it was not easy.  You cannot compare the US to the UK in this scenario.  Astrazeneca is clearly an inferior vaccine when it comes to this Delta variant.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 10:55am

    #19
    hotsauce

    hotsauce

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Dec 17 2020

    Posts: 145

    2

    hotsauce said:

    According to the UK data on vaccination rates, 92.04% of people over 50 in the UK are vaccinated (I had to do a bit of math to combine the groups). That means only 7.96% are unvaccinated.

    The unvaccinated people make up only 7.96% of that population but they account for 31% of the deaths. That means the vaccines are helping. Vaccinated people over the age of 50 have a lower chance of dying from COVID-19 than unvaccinated people over 50.

    The real story is the much lower case fatality rate. Thanks for sharing that.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 11:23am

    #20

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1556

    3

    Too much noise.. what is the signal?

    According to this ongoing analysis by a data scientist in Israel.. the story is that in the last month we have seen the precipitous failure of the vaccines in terms of mortality.  Look at the trend.  This is happening now, in real time... and cumulative data analysis won't tell the story right now because the corner was just turned (in Israel at least) in the last month.  The same appears to be happening in Scotland.  We have to watch the week-to-week to see this right now IMO.

    I believe the variants are real.  Why?  Well, first off, Geert Vanden Bossche predicted just this scenario, i.e. that the vaccines could and would cause the emergence of vaccine-resistant strains.  Also I have seen several papers that look at antibody responses to the different strains that actually show the reduced neutralizing capability of the vaccinal antibodies.. was this all made up?  It doesn't exactly build confidence in the vaccines if it is made up.  I like David Martin very much, but a small percentage of what he says baffles me.....

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 11:44am

    Ision

    Ision

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 07 2020

    Posts: 259

    4

    "Vaccine" resistant virus...

    Well, since no mRNA serum ("vaccine") sterilizes the body of SARS COV2, since no mRNA serum prevents infection of SARS COV2, since no mRNA serum prevents the transmission of SARS COV2, since no mRNA serum prevents one from becoming ill with COVID19, I would have to say that every single strain of SARS COV2, along with any real, or fictional, variant of SARS COV2....IS "VACCINE" RESISTANT.

    Every aspect of the original pandemic pathogen, including the original pathogen, is resistant to all the mRNA serums, currently being injected into the unwitting.

    SARS COV2 was created at the "University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill" under contract with the NIAID, managed by Dr. Fauci, and patented on April 19th, 2002, Patent Number 7279327.   SARS COV2 is entirely artificial, being a chimera, which it would HAVE TO BE...in order to be allowed a Patent...as it is NOT POSSIBLE TO OBTAIN A PATENT ON ANY NATURAL ORGANISM, OR NATURALLY OCCURRING VIRUS.

    There is nothing NOVEL...or NEW...about this virus, nor the fictional "vaccine" for it.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 11:48am

    Realteal

    Realteal

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 07 2009

    Posts: 17

    0

    Was about to post this... pls someone refute or confirm

    Thanks, Grover.  I would really like someone to tell me/us why this information, presented by David Martin, is not true, or that it is not relevant to his conclusion, or...?.

    https://www.brighteon.com/a569c7c9-9572-47ed-ba3c-130b0c13aa55

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 11:54am

    Ision

    Ision

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 07 2020

    Posts: 259

    2

    Ision said:

    Since you may download the entire document pack, which includes all the Patents involved and may access these same documents directly from the Patent Office,....nothing Dr. David Martin has stated is subject to doubt.   You will note Dr. Martin does not go into detail regarding motivations of the criminals involved.  He stops after he proves, beyond doubt, the lies behind the origins of this pandemic...and its creators.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 11:56am

    Kvothe

    Kvothe

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jun 25 2021

    Posts: 1

    2

    Agree

    Totally agree, Just measuring the data for hospitalisation/ICU/deaths of vac vs unvac without considering the general population ratios of these vac vs unvac by age groups is why this table looks weird.

    To say it simply more unvac people appear to be admitted to hospital in the <50 age group because more people in the <50 age group are unvac in the general population?

    So is it possible that what we are seeing is vacc vs unvac people suffering deaths and hospitalisation in a ratio similar to that of the general population?

    If this is true and the ratios are similar then it's probably just more evidence to support that the vaccine doesn't really have a significant impact on whether are person fairs well with the delta virus or not.

    Am I missing something? Seems pretty obvious to me.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 12:31pm

    JimboJim

    JimboJim

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Nov 14 2017

    Posts: 83

    0

    The Fauci/COVID-19 Dossier, by Dr. David E. Martin. Roadmap for SARS-COV2

    Follow this link to download a 205 page document with all the info for >5000 patents issued for the creation and exploitation of SARS-COV2.  If you look these up on the US Patent Office website, you will see that they are legitimate.

    https://www.davidmartin.world/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/The_Fauci_COVID-19_Dossier.pdf

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 1:02pm

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 1358

    1

    Canuck Vaccines apples to oranges

    Yes, when speaking with someone about the UK data , I did caveat that they took AZ and not the MRNA.   So it seems we may be seeing some ADE with the UK data.  However, this could explain why we see something different with the Israel.   That data shows almost no difference, and seems to say it makes no difference for vaxxed vs unvaxxed.  But again, you have to be cautious with that, as there is such much smaller subset of unvaxxed people there.   You are working with a population that is more than 70% vaxxed.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 1:08pm

    Realteal

    Realteal

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 07 2009

    Posts: 17

    0

    Realteal said:

    Thanks, Ision..... (now for the rest of the story... from the lawsuit?)

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 1:14pm

    SDHodges

    SDHodges

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jun 05 2021

    Posts: 22

    1

    tyblower

    I wasn't using Chris's video, I was using the actual data which you can see at:

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1001358/Variants_of_Concern_VOC_Technical_Briefing_18.pdf

    The CFR amongst the total unvaccinated group is 0.13% so you are correct to assert that it should be less than 0.2%.  However that still leaves us to account for the somewhat suspicious difference between the over 50s in the vaccinated and unvaccinated groups.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 1:29pm

    Shoeman

    Shoeman

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 21 2010

    Posts: 26

    1

    Shoeman said:

    The issue with this is who exactly are these remaining unvaccinated in the over 50s population? If they are people who couldn't take it because they are frail and close to death then again this will give very skewed numbers about vaccine effectiveness. If they are healthy but unvaccinated people between the age of 50 and 85 then the vaccine is working. So basically the PHE report is utterly useless without that information. Cheers.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 1:31pm

    Barbara

    Barbara

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Dec 15 2009

    Posts: 207

    0

    `Two missing components: already had covid and preexisting conditions

    1) Particularly in the 50-65 age group, anybody with a preexisting condition was pushed pretty hard to get a vaccine. At least around here a higher percent of vaccinated people are generally unhealthy and therefore more likely to have complications.
    2)  Do we know anything about outcomes for people who already had covid?
    I heard a comment that in areas with low rates of vaccination, a lot of people (20%+) already had covid.  They will show as unvaccinated, but if it's more likely they could be re-infected by the delta variant, they still might end up with milder cases in the same way politicians claim the vaccinated have milder cases.

    CHRIS, do you have any data on reinfection rates at all?  Data on outcome of vaccination of people who already had covid?

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 1:43pm

    Barbara

    Barbara

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Dec 15 2009

    Posts: 207

    2

    Barbara said:

    Sorry, I personally know people in India with family members who died of the delta variant.  Just saying, harmless is probably NOT the appropriate term.  Now it is true that in the US and UK, you get oxygen if you need it.  In India, the consensus from folks who were dealing with it was that for average middle class people, hospitals were a crap shoot.  Your grandma could easily end up stranded on the cement outside with NO treatment and the rest of the family either got exposed to the other covid patients or left her there alone.
    Just saying, while it's not ebola, it's also not harmless, especially for vulnerable populations.  And in the US that appears to include high risk already unhealthy over 50's, even if vaccinated.   Maybe vaccination didn't decrease the risk as much as "they" would like us to believe.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 1:45pm

    TMc

    TMc

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2020

    Posts: 99

    0

    Barbara, exactly my question!

    Barbara and Chris, I love all the UK data but I had the same question as Barbara regarding natural immunity. Of the 170,000 cases with the delta variant, were there any cases who had natural immunity and still got the delta variant? I know they are not tracking this information and I want to know why. I think the likely answer is natural immunity is better than the vaccine.  I have natural immunity and have been directly exposed by my daughter who I had to drive home from college (she had head cold symptoms only) and six months the later, my husband who was half vaccinated.  I did not test positive either time and had zero symptoms except for leg aches.  Is anyone doing any natural immunity studies anymore?

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 2:06pm

    #33
    coh

    coh

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Dec 16 2020

    Posts: 176

    2

    coh said:

    I think we're too early in "the delta wave" to be able to confidently make statements about the variant being "not so bad." In the UK the case rates didn't really start accelerating until about 4 weeks.  In the September wave the increase in deaths lagged the increase in cases by almost 4 weeks. So, they may be just at the start of the exponential growth in deaths. This is all complicated further by the large number of vaccinated in the UK which wasn't a factor last fall.

    The data Chris presented is encouraging but man, the data quality is so questionable these days. I have a hard time feeling confident about anything at this point.

    Does anyone here work in a hospital (or know someone who does) in an area where case rates have increased recently? If so, what are you seeing/hearing about how this variant is behaving? I saw a story somewhere (not sure where) that claimed delta was hitting people faster and harder than previous variants. Maybe that is just propaganda. Who knows anymore.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 2:08pm

    #34
    Chris Martenson

    Chris Martenson

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Jun 07 2007

    Posts: 6232

    5

    Many, Many Data Issues

    Hey, great conversation and use of data in this thread!  Thank you everyone who is adding to this.

    I wish we had better data with which to work.

    Already many of you have pointed out the limitations.  We don't know:

    1. Which vaccines were under or over-represented in the UK hospitalization and death data.  It would be great to know if the people showing up with the Delta in the hospital were AZ or Pfizer jabbed, for example.  You can be 100% sure this data exists, I just couldn't find it.
    2. We don't know the preexisting health status of those who ended up in the hospital.
    3. We don't know that these people died OF Covid or WITH Covid.  In a sample size as large as a country, hey, people die.  It happens.  Heart attacks, strokes, etc are a part of the daily routine.  So how do we know that these people who were reported as dying of Covid actually did?  We don't, and our prior experience says that there's a lot of overcounting because of the arbitrary "died any time within 28 days of a positive test" inclusion criteria.
    4. We don't know why people who weren't vaccinated haven't done so.  Maybe they had underlying conditions that prevented?  Maybe their health status is not unbiased?

    But here's what we do know.  At the highest possible level, and without having to adjust for anything, we can compare the 170,023 with detected Delta variant infection to the total number that died of/with that variant (330) and derive an overall death rate (so, far, we can expect it to climb a bit over time perhaps?) of 0.2% (more accurately 0.194%).

    We can also say that in the under 50 crowd, whether vaccinated or not, that as SDHodges rightly pointed out, the numbers can and should be rounded to zero:

    Vaccinated under 50: 2 deaths from 5600 cases = CFR 0.04% (normally reported as 0.0%)

    Unvaccinated under 50: 21 deaths from 70664 cases = CFR 0.03% (normally reported as 0.0%)

    And those numbers are seriously underreported as well because the total "cases" reported is actually 170,023 and the "cases" reported in the hospital add up to ~76,000.

    This, of course, reveals the true difference between an "infection fatality rate" or IFR and a true "case fatality rate" or CFR which should always be distinguished from one another.

    For the under 50 crowd, the data as given does not reflect any protective effect of vaccines, but we don't know the true prevalence of vaccination rates within the populations that finally arrived at the hospitals.  Perhaps they came from a low vaccination area in which case you get one conclusion.  Perhaps they came from high vaccination areas in which case you get another.  We don't know except to say that the Delta variant doesn't seem to lead to much death in the under 50 crowd.

    The total IFR, as reported then - across all age groups and all vaccination statuses - is ~0.2%.  This is a maximum because not every infection is detected.  Many if not most go unreported and undetected as they are entirely asymptomatic or lightly symptomatic and could easily be mistaken for a common cold.

    The CFR, as reported, for both vaccinated and unvaccinated in the under 50 cohort are both effectively at zero.

    Where I should have been more careful was in adjusting for the vaccination status of the over 50 populations which would have revealed a decent and respectable hazard ratio improvement.  Note:  My data gives my 158 deaths in vaccinated (all vaccine status columns) otherwise from SDHodges:

    Vaccinated over 50: 158 deaths from 5,234 cases = CFR 3.02%

    Unvaccinated over 50: 71 deaths from 1267 cases = CFR 5.6%

    That's a huge improvement, especially once you adjust for vaccine prevalence.  Back of the envelope ... if we assume 90% vaccinated in the over 50 crowd we would have expected to see 12,670 true cases and 710 deaths (obtained by dividing the unvaccinated numbers by 0.1).

    Instead, we saw only 41% the cases and only 22% of the 'expected' deaths.

    However, again, we can't simply do that because we don't know if the 10% unvaccinated over 50 crowd is a fair sample with the same underlying health status as the vaccinated crowd.  My instinct (and personal experiences/anecdotes) say that most vaccine-hesitant people have somewhat worse underlying disease conditions.

    Bottom line:  It's all very complex and it'd be swell if we had better data!  But the data we do have says that "the Delta Variant is less deadly"  That much is (so far) true.  Also, the decision to get a vaccine is not straightforward and is an important individual choice.  It makes sense for some.  Not for others.  At least not based on the data we have.  Why is this so hard of an idea for many to grasp?

    I'm personally not worried by the delta variant.  It's definitely vastly more transmissive and my prediction is this - we're going to see case counts fall dramatically in the coming months as the virus runs out of permissive hosts because both vaccinated and natural immunity will combine to create actual herd immunity.

    Unless....Geert's immune escape thing comes to pass.  Then we'll have to see.

     

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 3:39pm

    nyhetersverige

    nyhetersverige

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Mar 21 2020

    Posts: 563

    1

    nyhetersverige said:

    > For the vast majority of people covid is no more than a cough and a bad cold, so we could speculate anybody over the age of 50 who has been fully vaccinated and thinks they are invincible may well pass off covid as simple cold symptoms and not get tested.

    Say that to the four million fatalities so far. As for the role of the current vaccines, we'll wait for you to catch up.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 3:43pm

    nyhetersverige

    nyhetersverige

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Mar 21 2020

    Posts: 563

    0

    nyhetersverige said:

    > We don't know that these people died OF Covid or WITH Covid.

    This may sound confusing, but is it not possible to, instead of 'of' and 'with', apply 'because of'? Otherwise it does confused. Cheers, Mr Chris!

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 3:59pm

    #37
    Realteal

    Realteal

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 07 2009

    Posts: 17

    4

    'Case' #'s meaningless w/o the 'cycle threshold' #

    Is there a protocol that indicates 40 or 28?  A year ago WHO protocol called for testing to 40 Ct.  With introduction of vax, CDC has changed to 28 ... I guess they wanted the 'virus' to look as bad as they could manage it (denying HCQ, IVM, etc), and the 'vax' to look as good as they could manage it.   So - any Ct info?

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 5:20pm

    SDHodges

    SDHodges

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jun 05 2021

    Posts: 22

    1

    SDHodges said:

    Hi Chris

    I chose to concentrate on the data for the fully vaccinated and the unvaccinated because we would always have the government/pharma arguments that you have to do that comparison because the partially vaccinated are not a good guide.  As it turns out there is no FFFiing difference even in the under 50's so why are they suggesting vaccinating children with experimental vaccines!

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 6:17pm

    #39

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1556

    6

    Data trends.....

    New view of UK data... it appears that the beams have been crossed.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 7:37pm

    #40
    annie

    annie

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 07 2008

    Posts: 26

    1

    This says Delta is more severe. Which is right?

    I’m not good at interpreting data so I thought I’d provide this for Chris & the team and anyone else interested to check out as it seems to suggest increased severity for Delta.  Please chime in with your thoughts. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.05.21260050v2
    Thanks

    Annie

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 8:32pm

    gkcjrrt

    gkcjrrt

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 20 2016

    Posts: 62

    1

    Canadian government funded the research - and the conclusion is pure fearmongering

    Just saying ...

    Funding Statement

    The research was supported by a grant to DNF from the Canadians Institutes for Health Research (2019 COVID-19 rapid researching funding OV4-170360)

    Interpretation The progressive increase in transmissibility and virulence of SARS-CoV-2 VOCs will result in a significantly larger, and more deadly, pandemic than would have occurred in the absence of VOC emergence

     

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 9:05pm

    Information is Freedom

    Information is Freedom

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jul 06 2021

    Posts: 15

    1

    Information is Freedom said:

    Thanks for this follow up Chris, it answers the immediate questions I have on what you posted in the video.

    The vaccination rate and total population of > 50 is required data, as is the underlying health conditions, as you say, of the unvaccinated > 50.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 9:06pm

    Fed up Grandpa

    Fed up Grandpa

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jul 16 2021

    Posts: 1

    3

    Nonsense fear mongering

    Academic policy wonks, wouldn't know a sick person if they coughed on them. Unfortunately this is who the Politicians chose to listen to, or use for support.

    If the variants, especially D are so bad why are the major hospitals in Toronto celebrating few Covid admissions?  and few patients in ICUs for Covid. Toronto General, the largest, invited the press in for a party celebrating no Covid patients in their ICU.

    Sunnybrook Hospital, 2nd largest, is dismantling their 12 emergency  MASH tent units in a parking lot built to manage the anticipated peak and protect their facility because they were never needed.

    This was recently announced on the radio, followed by the government threatening that we better behave because of the dangerous D variant or they will lock us up again. Their credibility is quickly diminishing. Let's see what their next trick is.

    How did Bush express it? Fool me once and ????

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 9:28pm

    Mike from Jersey

    Mike from Jersey

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Jan 22 2018

    Posts: 1058

    4

    Replying to Canadian government funded the research - and the conclusion is pure fearmongering (#41)

    This is from the study:

    Prior to May 1, 2021, Delta cases were only detected by whole genome sequencing. After May 1, 2021, all screened specimens not identified as an N501Y-positive VOC or another variant were classified as probable Delta VOC infections.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 15, 2021 - 9:59pm

    Dontknownothin

    Dontknownothin

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Mar 14 2020

    Posts: 529

    4

    Dontknownothin said:

    JimH,

    If I'm reading that graph correctly, the vaccine has about two months of high efficacy before a new breakthrough strain dominates. That means boosters every three months and VAERS reports to go along with them.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Fri, Jul 16, 2021 - 1:29am

    lyonssf

    lyonssf

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 30 2011

    Posts: 38

    2

    Immune Escape-UK Government Docs

    There are four major risks associated with high numbers of infections. These are an increase in hospitalisations and deaths, more ‘Long-COVID’; workforce absences (including in the NHS); and the increased risk of new variants emerging. The combination of high prevalence and high levels of vaccination creates the conditions in which an immune escape variant is most likely to emerge. The likelihood of this happening is unknown, but such a variant would present a significant risk both in the UK and internationally.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Fri, Jul 16, 2021 - 1:44am

    lyonssf

    lyonssf

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 30 2011

    Posts: 38

    7

    White House ‘flagging’ posts for Facebook to censor over COVID ‘misinformation’

    How is this not a First Amendment violation if the White House directing the censorship?

    https://nypost.com/2021/07/15/white-house-flagging-posts-for-facebook-to-censor-due-to-covid-19-misinformation/

     

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Fri, Jul 16, 2021 - 2:42am

    Terminator

    Terminator

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 97

    1

    Terminator said:

    Let’s not get emotional on the reported 4 million COVID deaths so far.

    People die. Luckily I would say, imagine the resource fest we had if no one perished, how unfortunate and deeply emotional on an individual level it can be.

    150.000 a day on average, about 55 Million a year and still we grow in numbers. Even with a raging virus around.

    Eyes on the ball !

    Also:

    We don't know that these people died OF
    Covid or WITH Covid.  In a sample size as large as a country, hey, people die.  It happens.  Heart attacks, strokes, etc are a part of the daily routine.  So how do we know that these people who were reported as dying of Covid actually did?  We don't, and our prior experience says that there's a lot of overcounting because of the arbitrary "died any time within 28 days of a positive test" inclusion criteria.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Fri, Jul 16, 2021 - 2:45am

    #49
    DaveDD

    DaveDD

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Sep 08 2019

    Posts: 433

    0

    Obfuscation: too early to tell, too many unknowns

    I think that at this point we can’t focus on vaxxine efficacy. This will only sidetrack us. We do  know by now what cheap alternatives could help us, and possibly negate the effect of the vaxxines. Why fall in the trap of a narrow discussion topic?

    First, there are too many unknowns:

    • Underlying conditions?
    • Vitamine D status?
    • Deaths <28 days?
    • How are cases counted?
    • How are the covid deaths counted?
    • Which vaxxine?
    • Why the fast difference between Israel and UK?

    Second, using the UK data, it follows that the weekly delta deaths follow an exponential curve, around half of the deaths were  twice vaxxed >28 days before their deaths, i.e., the exponential growth is also driven by the vaxxinated. No matter the IFR, or CFR, in two months from now we will looking at ~150 to 200 totally avoidable deaths per day in the UK. Half of these will be twice vaxxinated. Once the pool of unvaxxinated is gone, either by natural immunity, attrition, or vaxxination, the doubling time will increase when everything stays the same. Geert Vanden Bossche suspects that everything will not stay the same however…

    To summarize, I do not agree with any conclusion about the Delta variant yet, not even my own. Time will tell, but we at least are prepared…

    Keep up the excellent discussions! Dave

     

     

     

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Fri, Jul 16, 2021 - 3:31am

    #50
    davefairtex

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2723

    4

    prior COVID19 reinfection rates - real data from Israel

    Short answer: prior COVID19 infected people are 6.72 times less likely to get reinfected, vs those who have been vaccinated.  So if the vaccine is 85% protective, prior COVID is 98% protective.  Roughly speaking.  n=6,029,291.

    https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762

    With a total of 835,792 Israelis known to have recovered from the virus, the 72 instances of reinfection amount to 0.0086% of people who were already infected with COVID.

    By contrast, Israelis who were vaccinated were 6.72 times more likely to get infected after the shot than after natural infection, with over 3,000 of the 5,193,499, or 0.0578%, of Israelis who were vaccinated getting infected in the latest wave.

    0.0578 (vax IR) / 0.0086 (prior COVID IR) = 6.72093

    This, in a country where 57% of the total population are fully vaccinated.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Fri, Jul 16, 2021 - 6:29am

    DaveDD

    DaveDD

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Sep 08 2019

    Posts: 433

    2

    DaveDD said:

    Hi Dave,

    I kind of came to the same numbers. I think however that we can conclude that it doesn’t matter for TPTB and the majority of people. The facts do not change the narrative (yet). Imo it is not about the numbers, but how the numbers are used. Engaging in discussions about the supposed danger or reduced impact of variants is not a discussion we should get involved in anymore. No rational discussion is possible with hysterical people, naive believers, and technocratic psychopaths. We are not able to change the official narrative, just like the dissenters in 1936/1945.

    What we can do, is to passively and actively oppose the mainstream madness: support the groups that are asking for a more rational approach. Ensure that we are prepared in terms of supplements, when the budget allows it, maybe add some extra for friends and family. We can start, or support novel initiatives for energy conversion, energy storage etc. We can join the greatest monetary “F. the bankers” revolution by diversifying in crypto (those with a real usecase). We can start gardens. Maybe, for many of us, this politicized virus can lead to novel insights in our own raison d’etre,  that is,  are we the same persons as before this “crisis”.

    My prediction is that this summer, autumn and winter, the situation will explode: in terms of “cases”, in terms of social pressure, reduced freedom, false narratives, mindblowingly wrong interpretations of the data, and yes, also in avoidable deaths.

    I kind of hoped that the vaxxines would have a significant positive impact on the number of deaths —I ignore cases, because these numbers are the embodiment of statistical lies— but alas, no can do.

    Grts, Dave

     

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Fri, Jul 16, 2021 - 7:10am

    #52
    Blood red peony

    Blood red peony

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Dec 16 2020

    Posts: 82

    3

    Redacted 1 new post topic

    I think if everyone watches the new video posted by Redacted1 "How Sars-Cov-2 gain of function research violated international law" it will change the conversation greatly. It looks very much like not only is the virus a bio weapon, but also the vaccines. Sorry, I can never make links work here.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Fri, Jul 16, 2021 - 7:41am

    Wcave

    Wcave

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2020

    Posts: 7

    0

    Wcave said:

    I was thinking the same thing. More 50+ have been vaccinated so it isn’t a stretch that if older people are more likely to succumb to covid that would explain the numbers. Also like chris said <50 and > 50 are not good categories because in lower numbers you are including a large number of people that rarely have issues with covid.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Fri, Jul 16, 2021 - 9:09am

    #54

    LesPhelps

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2009

    Posts: 708

    4

    Do the math

    Peak Prosperity focuses on science in general and recently Covid related evidence.

    Here’s part of a chart from the WHO:

     


    Dr. Greger, on nutritionfacts.org likes to say that the three most important decisions you will make today are what you’ll have for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

    If you ever get bored with diving into Covid, think about looking into the science related to the number one cause of death.  There are literally dozens of doctors and scientists who are not funded by the food industry, or big pharma and have spent their life studying disease and nutrition.  They stand at the top of my personal hero/mentor list.

    He’s not my personal favorite, but one of the doctors you have probably heard of is Dr. Dean Ornish.  Others include, in no particular order, Dr. Neal Bernard, Dr. John McDougall, Dr. Terry Mason, Nathan Pritkin...

    Time to stop.  People only look into the science that they are willing to absorb.  Nutrition rarely makes that cut.

     

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Fri, Jul 16, 2021 - 9:34am

    Yggdrasil

    Yggdrasil

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jan 25 2014

    Posts: 495

    0

    Nutritional / Environmental Health

    Hi Les,

    Absolutely, nutritional health is essential, I would add environmental health to that list as well. I will check out the names you have mentioned above. And point you to Zach Bush MD in return 🙂

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Fri, Jul 16, 2021 - 10:13am

    Quercus bicolor

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Mar 19 2008

    Posts: 910

    3

    3 month booster logistics

    • figure out the new variant requires a vaccine modification (1 month?)
    • design the new mrna: a few days?)
    • some sort of minimal testing to make sure it really works (animal challenges, human trials?, does safety need to be tested again?): weeks to months
    • manufacture, distribute and inject on a massive scale: months.
    • add the 5 weeks from first dose to full immunity (assuming 2 doses) or 2 weeks (assuming 1 dose).

    I'd say if all went perfectly, that's a 6-8 month cycle, but more likely a year.

    I know of certain effective treatments that could be deployed with perhaps 95% less turnaround time.  Can you name them?

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Fri, Jul 16, 2021 - 10:37am

    Kat43

    Kat43

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Feb 10 2020

    Posts: 633

    2

    Kat43 said:

    QB, where you are off on your timing calculations is that the manufacturing process would have started immediately, not waiting for any testing period. We must maintain Warp Speed, afterall.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Fri, Jul 16, 2021 - 12:05pm

    Quercus bicolor

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Mar 19 2008

    Posts: 910

    4

    of course

    Because there is zero chance that the newly formulated vaccine will be less safe than the current one.  And of course, the current one is "safe and effective", at least as long as I ignore the three 2nd order connections plus one extended family member who experienced a significant and ongoing adverse event as well as the 5 strangers I encountered in the emergency room, a family member's hospital room-mate or random person talking to me in a waiting room who all, to varying degrees of certainty were suffering from moderate (1) to severe (4) adverse events.  All of these include 5 neurological issues (1 severe tremors, 1 Parkinson's,  2 with seizures, 1 couldn't lift arms above shoulders), 2 bleeding issues (little bruises all over body, stroke), 1 heart issue (possible myocarditis in a ~20 year old) and one sensory or neurological issue (vestibular disquilibrium bad enough that she could not drive or continue with her pilates practice).

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Fri, Jul 16, 2021 - 1:29pm

    Dontknownothin

    Dontknownothin

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Mar 14 2020

    Posts: 529

    2

    3 mos - 1 year for booster

    If it only takes 3 months for mutation to render the vaccine non-efficacious, the vaccine development will naturally lag far behind this mutation rate meaning they can only vaccinate for the last VOC. Even at warp speed, they are still fighting yesterdays battles, and based on Dr VB's theory, would only have very selective and specialized immunity for that prior strain which overrides the latent immune response rendering the immune system effectively useless.

    With these boosters though, the question will become, do they combine with previous antibody programming, override it, or are overridden by them? The drug companies would need to have a booster available and distributed every two months to keep up with the mutation even if it worked perfectly, and frankly there's no way to predict which direction the virus will be mutating to get ahead of it.

    What we DO know is that the vaccine adverse events have been catastrophic for several hundred thousand people world wide. Some anecdotes from my own life, a buddies co worker had been having brain fog since she got the second pfizer shot in january, yesterday she had a stroke that left her mute. She is an ICU nurse and is 48 years old.

    But they'll tell you these things happen all the time to perfectly healthy people.

    Last Friday, I called a funeral home to confirm a lead on increased deaths. They said the summer is their slowest time and even through Covid, they were at normal loads. Right now their freezer is full, every funeral home in the region is full, one is bringing in a trailer to handle the bodies.

    If Covid didn't do this and nothing before had either, there is something else causing these deaths and strokes. I don't need a fancy sales pitch to sell me on the societal change recently. And for that ICU nurse, that was a six month fuse on that bomb. Age is obviously a factor for the length of fuse, but I expect September and October are going to be a tipping point. And by Christmas, we're not going to have much to celebrate.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Fri, Jul 16, 2021 - 1:57pm

    Redacted1

    Redacted1

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jun 30 2021

    Posts: 16

    2

    Link: : How SARS-CoV-2 Gain-of-Function Research Violated International Law

    Thanks Blood red peony. Haha! Let’s see if we can link to that thread:
    New Video: How SARS-CoV-2 Gain-of-Function Research Violated International Law
    I’ll post a brief update for you over there with some breaking news. Thanks again.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Fri, Jul 16, 2021 - 2:29pm

    B. C.

    B. C.

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 22 2020

    Posts: 35

    2

    Lag from shot to stroke

    Getting the second shot in January and then having a stroke six months later is horrific.  I was hoping the lag time on these would be a few weeks, not a few months (or potentially forever because we don't have any long-term data!).

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Fri, Jul 16, 2021 - 2:45pm

    Dontknownothin

    Dontknownothin

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Mar 14 2020

    Posts: 529

    2

    Dontknownothin said:

    BC,

    My suspicion without evidence is that about half the vaccines are placebo. If they are running a nefarious scheme, they don't want too many people dying from the real injections too soon so they would water down the damage with saline. You may have gotten lucky. Better to be lucky than good as they say.

    This also serves to keep people from directly attributing the issues to the vaccine. "Look, they got the vax and they're fine! Nothing to see here." The long fuse, the constant barrage of misinformation, planting kooks in the midst, and directly shutting down information sharing through social media and SMS, and as DF loves to say "No treatments for YOU!". All these tools are effectively being used to push this agenda through. To me reality has to match the rhetoric, and they are able to manage that better by spreading out the vaccine issues. 50% saline, 50% vax the results are 25% will recieve the vax with both shots. That's small enough to hide the bodies, at least until they can start pushing this down everyone elses throats.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Fri, Jul 16, 2021 - 3:48pm

    #63
    PhilH

    PhilH

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: May 24 2010

    Posts: 202

    3

    Drums are beating again

    With the newly renewed constant drum beating, and nefarious data analysis (MSM publishing 99% of deaths are amongst unvaccinated), I fear something is up.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Fri, Jul 16, 2021 - 4:01pm

    Kat43

    Kat43

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Feb 10 2020

    Posts: 633

    1

    Kat43 said:

    They can't do placebo.  They need some kind of reaction at least locally so people know they got a vaccine.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Fri, Jul 16, 2021 - 5:31pm

    brushhog

    brushhog

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Oct 06 2015

    Posts: 753

    4

    Yes drums are beating

    They are beating the drum of fear again because the numbers of compliant citizens is low...WAY lower than they claim. The Mayo Clinic projects about 50% have been vaccinated, and other reports make those projections seem more likely than the 67% they are claiming.

    So they are ramping up the fear to get the numbers up, creating fear is their go to tactic, its what they do best. From where Im sitting it looks like they are failing miserably. They have to get the numbers up to implement the vaccine passports which will serve as the platform for the social credit control system.

    I think they are getting desperate, I expect the hysteria to ramp up to 11 within the next few months but if they dont get the numbers this winter I dont think they will make it happen [ this time ].

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Fri, Jul 16, 2021 - 5:50pm

    Dontknownothin

    Dontknownothin

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Mar 14 2020

    Posts: 529

    0

    Dontknownothin said:

    Could be psychosomatic. Or they could do placebo +, maybe empty lipids without the mRNA. Whatever the trigger is, everything else could be the same without that piece. Lots of ways to make that work. Completely unverifiable though so its just wild assed speculation.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Fri, Jul 16, 2021 - 9:54pm

    Miles Harding

    Miles Harding

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 12 2014

    Posts: 3

    0

    Miles Harding said:

    Yes.

    I would go so far as to say that the data presented was nonsense. With over 50 year-old vaccination rates of 90%, it's no surprise that they are over-represented in the data.

    The question is: how we should moderate the data?

    Perhaps by making an assumption that vaccinated and unvacinated behave similarly, but this may not be true as the UK enters a total relaxation of restrictions and the unvaccinated are faced with an ugly choice, resembling russian roulette.

    My point here is that the skewing by vaccination rate may be further exaggerated as the unvaccinated keep themselves out of harm's way.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Fri, Jul 16, 2021 - 11:42pm

    lyonssf

    lyonssf

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 30 2011

    Posts: 38

    5

    The Evidence that Almost Everyone is Exposed During a Surge and Most Are Immune

    The evidence, however, is strongly supportive of the first position – ubiquitous exposure – not the second, limited exposure.

    Consider the secondary attack rate (SAR, the proportion of contacts an infected person infects). Data from Public Health England consistently shows this figure sits around 10-15%, meaning around 85-90% of the contacts of infected people do not become infected. It rises during a surge, which is typically due to the higher SAR of a novel variant, and then falls after the surge, as the new variant’s SAR also falls.

    Such data is much more consistent with ubiquitous exposure than with limited exposure, as it shows that only a minority of those exposed to an infected person are themselves infected (10-15%), meaning ubiquitous exposure with a minority infected is the much more plausible scenario. This meshes with the data on high levels of prior immunity via T cells and other mechanisms.

    Another key data point is the fact that surges consistently peak abruptly and begin to fall, independently of the imposition of restrictions. For instance, as Professor Simon Wood has shown, all three lockdowns in England were imposed after infections had peaked and begun to decline. Similarly, multiple peer-reviewed studies have shown no relationship between the imposition of restrictions and Covid infections or deaths across different countries and U.S. states.

    The pattern of abrupt peaks and falls in incidence, independent of restrictions, is strongly indicative of hitting a herd immunity threshold (or overshooting it), as the virus or variant runs out of susceptible people to infect and exhausts itself.

    Similarly, when restrictions are lifted there is typically no immediate surge, as there wasn’t in Europe last summer and in numerous U.S. states such as Texas and Mississippi in spring 2021. Surges only tend to occur when a new variant arrives, which again suggests it is not restrictions that are preventing spread to a still highly susceptible population but herd immunity that is preventing it, at least until a new virus or variant arrives to temporarily disturb it.

    How, though, does the virus circumvent restrictions to achieve ubiquitous exposure of the population, and apparently without being noticeably even slowed down by the restrictions or voluntary distancing behaviour?

    The answer, as I have suggested previously, likely lies in the airborne transmission of the virus. It is likely that the virus primarily spreads through building up to infective levels in the air, and that people are infected by breathing it in (a form of transmission which face masks do little or nothing to prevent). During a surge the virus becomes increasingly ubiquitous in the air at higher concentrations, accelerating exposure and infections until the herd immunity threshold is hit, at which point it abruptly enters decline. This explains why even though it is at its highest point of prevalence and was spreading at its fastest rate just a few days before, it suddenly stops and enters sustained decline. It is hard to see how any explanation other than herd immunity can explain this consistently abrupt change in the rate of virus transmission, particularly as there is no evidence of a similarly abrupt change in public behaviour in the mobility data.

    Is there any concrete evidence that SARS-CoV-2 or other airborne viruses like influenza are ubiquitous in the air? Yes, there is. As HART notes in its bulletin this week:

    For novel influenza viruses, between 7% and 8% are susceptible and develop antibodies in the first winter, much as we saw with SARS-CoV-2… If a certain proportion of the population are susceptible to infection in any one season, those individuals will end up infected sooner or later, regardless of which day they are exposed.

    Studies have demonstrated that influenza is transmitted by aerosol particles and that such particles are prolific, indeed ubiquitous, in all indoor settings during the winter season. What stops people contracting the virus is their level of susceptibility, not their level of exposure.

    HART refers to a study on influenza from 2014, which argues:

    There are some amounts of the virus in the air constantly. These amounts are generally not enough to cause disease in people, due to infection prevention by healthy immune systems. However, at a higher concentration of the airborne virus, the risk of human infection increases dramatically. Early detection of the threshold virus concentration is essential for prevention of the spread of influenza infection.

    The idea of a “threshold virus concentration” at which an outbreak is triggered (rather than just low level transmission) may be important for understanding how airborne viruses spread, and how they can become ubiquitous during a surge. Seasonal factors such as temperature, humidity, UV radiation, human behaviour (e.g. gathering indoors with little ventilation), and cycles in the human immune system may play a role in how easily this threshold concentration is reached.

    study in JAMA tested the air in hospitals for SARS-CoV-2 and found plenty, particularly in the public areas:

    Overall, 14 of 42 samples (33.3%) in public areas were positive, with 9 of 16 (56.3%) in hallways, 2 of 18 (11.1%) in other indoor areas, and 3 of 8 (37.5%) in outdoor public areas (P = .01).

    There isn’t yet much evidence from other settings, though a study, COVAIR by Imperial College, is underway and the results will be of great interest when they eventually appear.

    To my mind, this is the explanation that (at least for now) explains all the known facts better than others – the low secondary attack rate, the ineffectiveness of lockdowns, the outbreaks that explode then suddenly end, the absence of resurgence when restrictions are lifted, the repeated hitting of herd immunity, and so on. At the heart of it is the idea of ubiquitous exposure – that almost everyone, not just a small percentage, are exposed each time the virus passes through, and the vast majority are already immune.

    By Will Jones  /  17 July 2021 • 01.13

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sat, Jul 17, 2021 - 5:19pm

    ds24

    ds24

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 02 2010

    Posts: 60

    1

    The food industry harms our health

    Here is a superb interview of Dr. Robert Lustig by Dr. David Perlmutter. Lustig's new book, Metabolical, explains how the food industry has created an epidemic of chronic illnesses.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sat, Jul 17, 2021 - 5:41pm

    Netlej

    Netlej

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Dec 09 2020

    Posts: 278

    3

    Agriculture industry harms our food, food industry harms our health

    Please watch this 24 min vid;





    Chris - You really need to understand the biology and genomics of this if you want to maintain your relevance. I would recommend watching all of the Knowledge presentation from Zach Bush MD. There are many others who are trying to educate the populace about the realities of the Virome but he is the best communicator;

    Home

     

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sat, Jul 17, 2021 - 8:12pm

    ds24

    ds24

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 02 2010

    Posts: 60

    1

    Great source on food

    I just read an interview with Marion Nestle on her book Unsavory Truths, about how the food industry uses its economic power to control academic studies and government regulators.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Mon, Jul 19, 2021 - 7:23am

    James Donahue

    James Donahue

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jul 17 2021

    Posts: 1

    0

    James Donahue said:

    Well said!

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Mon, Jul 19, 2021 - 9:30am

    #73
    Kat43

    Kat43

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Feb 10 2020

    Posts: 633

    5

    New Bossche blog: cross-reactive immunity does not mean cross-reactive protection

    http://Response to Dr. Bhakdi (geertvandenbossche.org)

    Vanden Bossche disagrees with Bhakdi's argument that immunity to, for instance, coronavirus colds means a substantial portion of the population has already achieved herd immunity to Sars-Cov-2.  Vanden Bossche says there is no basis for assuming that, and "if this were true, we would not currently be witnessing a fulminant propagation of the delta variant in several countries".  Just because an antibody might bind (cross-reactive) does not mean it will be neutralizing (cross-protective).

    Robert Malone says he completely agrees with Vanden Bossche's assessment.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Mon, Jul 19, 2021 - 9:02pm

    TXalchemist

    TXalchemist

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 16 2020

    Posts: 10

    0

    TXalchemist said:

    Correct.  At about 24 minutes in Part I, Chris said the vaccines are the same between UK and US, but of course they are not.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Tue, Jul 20, 2021 - 10:52am

    #75
    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Jun 04 2012

    Posts: 999

    1

    Dr. Peter McCullough weighin in again

    ...This spring after the CDC was overloaded with >10,000 vaccine failure cases with full-blown COVID-19 after being completely vaccinated, the CDC notified Americans it was only going to track and report COVID-19 in the unvaccinated. This was a giant blunder since there is a great need to study why the vaccines are failing in order to plan for boosters or better technological vaccines. 

    In this week’s McCullough Report we interview Daniel O’Connor, JD, who is the founder and principal of TrialSiteNews which is an innovative company offering regulatory and clinical trial services to the pharmaceutical industry as well as a valuable publisher of key scientific updates on a variety of topics including COVID-19. With the Trusted News Initiative overt censoring of valid scientific information on early treatment and vaccine safety, TrialSiteNews is among the few places that viewers can go and get accurate and well-referenced medical information on the pandemic. 

    We also have a courageous interview with Dr. Sam White who is a young medical doctor in England who saw things going wrong in the pandemic response and has fought to save his patients and his career against all odds in the tide of the pandemic.

    Let’s get real, let’s get loud, on America Out Loud Talk Radio.

    The McCullough Report: Sat/Sun 2 PM ET Encore 7 PM – Internationally recognized Dr. Peter A. McCullough, known for his iconic views on the state of medical truth in America and around the globe, pierces through the thin veil of mainstream media stories that skirt the major issues and provide no tractable basis for durable insight. Listen on iHeart Radio, our world-class media player, or our free apps on AppleAndroid, or Alexa.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 22, 2021 - 2:35pm

    #76
    dcw

    dcw

    Status: Member

    Joined: Oct 10 2008

    Posts: 5

    4

    Poor Science

    I’ve been following Chris on and off since 2008, before the GFC, and also found his guidance during the early stages of the pandemic unparalleled, and my major source of information, education, and interpretation of events.

    But, I have to say that his interpretation of the data in this instance is very poor.

    For a start, the Alpha variant was booming when the UK was mostly unvaccinated. Of course the Delta variant is going to look less dangerous, precisely because it is up against a much higher percentage of vaccinated population. This actually suggests that the the vaccine is doing its job.

    Secondly, the comparison of under 50s and over 50s in the UK is similarly skewed due to a much higher percentage of over 50s being  vaccinated than under 50s. To effectively conclude that over 50s are better off without the vaccine is dangerous nonsense.

    Finally I have to say that I don’t often look at the comments sections or forums here, but whenever I have done so recently, it’s seems to be full of anti vaxxers and various wackadoodle conspiracy theorists. Chris, seriously, you have a superb mind for analysing data. Do you really want to be appealing to this cohort?

    Well, I’m out of here.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 22, 2021 - 9:59pm

    annie

    annie

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 07 2008

    Posts: 26

    5

    I'm worried too.

    I have to say sadly that I agree.  I have been a subscriber for the same period of time as you and at this point I'm hanging on hoping Chris will change direction.  He has such a brilliant mind and is such a good communicator but I honestly think he's allowing conspiracy theories to dilute his analysis.  Please Chris is you see this, recognize that you are starting to lose some of us.  I for one, value your insights and I feel a degree of loyalty toward you but when you start cherry picking Covid data and diverge significantly in you Covid analysis from people like John Campbell in the UK, I start to worry.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Jul 22, 2021 - 10:39pm

    borderpatrol

    borderpatrol

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 21 2017

    Posts: 71

    2

    Pfizer lost billions in revenue

    Pfizer lost 21 billion in revenue in ten years, there is no way they would ever give up the cash cow that these jabs are gonna do for them

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Mon, Jul 26, 2021 - 4:46pm

    #79
    Arcurus

    Arcurus

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 16 2020

    Posts: 38

    2

    Is the death rate above 50 really higher if you are vaccinated or is it just that there are more people vaccinated in this age group?

    Is the Alpha variant compared with the Delta variant in the same time slot? If not vaccines and other reasons could have reduced the death rate for Delta since more people where already vaccinated or because of other reasons...

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Mon, Jul 26, 2021 - 5:25pm

    Friedrichs_teeth

    Friedrichs_teeth

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Feb 15 2019

    Posts: 530

    4

    Friedrichs_teeth said:

    it’s seems to be full of anti vaxxers and various wackadoodle conspiracy theorists.

    Some of us might be anti-vaxxers. I guess. But some of us are just plain anti-covid-vaxxers. Maybe somewhere down the line the mRNA vaccines will be safe but I think that day is not today. I found this graph on this site today (in the forums).

    See, that big ol' spike in 2021, that spike is the spike from the covid vaccine. It is not insignificant. I think covid is also very dangerous, but I have to push back hard on transferring the risk of covid (primarily to the elderly) to the whole population (including kids). I would die for my kids. Most people I know would and here we are putting them at larger risk for the safety of the elderly.

    Yes, I agree that the delta covid-deaths might be lower due to the vaccine influence temporarily but new data from Israel is showing that the protections are all but gone in July. For background, in March of 2021 Israel was 60% vaccinated. With the seniors mostly complete in January and February. So the new serious cases in July represents a window of protection of 4-6 months. Here is a tweet showing the newest Israeli data. https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status/1419723947583680518

    I am sorry that you feel left out. I don't want that. I want to understand where you stand and try to find some common ground.

    Login or Register to post comments