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    How To Lose Weight

    Health is the best investment you can make in 2021
    by Adam Taggart

    Saturday, January 9, 2021, 6:48 AM

If you’re like most of the people around the world who had their lives rocked by the COVID pandemic, staying healthy in 2021 is likely one of your resolutions for the coming year.

And if so, ‘losing weight’ is probably on your list.

Most of us carry more inches around the middle than we’d ideally like and worry about the long-term health risks that can come with being overweight. And with COVID-19, excess weight is a co-morbidity that can dangerously worsen outcomes for those infected.

Yet most New Year’s weight loss attempts meet with failure, usually after only a few weeks. The truth is: dropping unwanted pounds and keeping them off is hard.

BUT….it’s doable. In fact, the pathway to achieve a healthy bodyweight is surprisingly straightforward. It just requires disciplined commitment. Weight loss programs overwhelmingly fail because of psychological reasons or misinformation. If you pick a program based on good science — and keep your mind right while pursuing it — positive results are inevitable.

In this article, which builds on previous advice I’ve written on the topic,  I’m going to recount my own experience (with evidence for you to judge) with finally losing the pounds that had for years stubbornly refused to leave my middle. The keys to my success weren’t complicated nor expensive. And I firmly believe that anyone, regardless of age or situation, can deploy them to similar results.

Why Believe Me?

For those wondering whether they should believe me, take a look at the Before and After pictures below:

   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You should listen to me because I’ve taken this journey.

That’s me in both pictures. In my late 30s on the left and my late 40s on the right.

I know what it’s like to be far too overweight and health-challenged.

I know how overwhelming the idea of self-transformation can seem when you feel poorly about yourself. And how deflating the setbacks along the way can be.

But I also know that success is achievable. Much more so than most realize.

Because I’ve gone through the process myself.

It’s not rocket-science. But it does requires substantial discipline and commitment.

The good news is: those are fully within your control.

And trust me, if I was able to do this, you can do.

Weight Loss Is All About Nutrition

As the title of this section states, losing weight has everything to do with diet.

Yes, following an active fitness regime is a very important complement (and essential for general health). But exercise alone is not effective for material weight loss.

The hard truth is that if you want to lose weight, especially to the point where it will be visibly noticeable, diet is going to be 80% to 90% of the work involved.

Now, that may sound like a downer. No one likes the idea of being on a “diet plan”. But I encourage you to look at it from another point of view. This is actually really good news. There are few things you have more control over than what and how much you put in your mouth. You have the agency here. You don’t have to rely on anyone else; you don’t have to wait to be chosen; you don’t have to pass any test to participate — you have full power to chart your own destiny here.

And you’ll find that a weight-loss diet doesn’t equate to deprivation and suffering. I’ll talk more about this in a moment, but eating healthier often means eating tastier, more satisfying meals. And it can frequently — and non-intuitively — mean eating more, not less.

The point here is: Try to put aside your dread. It’s not going to help you, and much of what you’re fearing is likely wrong.

What to Eat to Lose Weight

An important note: I’m going to explain here the kind of diet that I followed to lose weight, because it worked. It worked for me, and I’ve seen it work for dozens of other folks I know who have followed it. I’ve personally witnessed the transforming results.

What I’m not saying is that this is the only diet for losing weight effectively. Or the best one. There are a number of other plans that are worth consideration. But I know for sure this one works, which gives me the confidence to share it with you.

So, do you have to follow some complicated program made up of pricey powdered shakes or arcane ingredients like panda spleen? No. Not at all.

The simple mnemonic to keep in mind is: the closer to its natural state, the better the food likely is for you.

As gross as this may sound, if it can go rancid within a few days = good. If it can live in your pantry for months (because it’s filled with preservatives) = not so good.

You want to eat foods that supply the natural building blocks your body needs to function well: notably protein, saturated fats, fiber, quality carbohydrates, and anti-oxidants.

And you want to minimize the intake of processed foods that trigger your body’s insulin response. The worst offenders are refined flours (found in most processed carbohydrates) and refined sugars (found in almost everything).

It’s the insulin response that sabotages the efficacy of most diets. When we eat sugars or foods that easily break down into sugars (most carbohydrates), our bodies use these sugars for immediate energy and store any excess sugar along with everything else we’ve eaten into our muscle and fat cells for use later. Not only that, but as our insulin levels begin to normalize after a sugary meal, a craving for additional sugar occurs which often leads to overeating of unhealthy foods. To add insult to injury, eating sugars/carbs encourages your body to retain water — leading to additional weight gain.

So, what to eat? I find the guidance offered by Mark Sisson’s Primal Blueprint diet (quite similar to the Paleo and Zone diets) very useful. I highly recommend using his book The Primal Blueprint Cookbook for meal planning, but the chart below offers an easy-to-understand framework for where to place your focus:

(click on the image for an expanded view)

Animal protein plays a big role in the Primal/Paleo/Zone diets, especially for those engaged in concurrent strength-training. Note the focus on pasture-raised, grass-fed, organic, wild-catch and local sources. Similar to humans, the animals we eat are as healthy as their diets. If animals we eat were not nourished well, how can expect their meat to nourish us any better?

This focus on meat does not mean that vegetarianism and veganism are to be eschewed. There is much evidence for the benefits of plant-based diets — though those on them do need to pay more attention to ensuring they consume enough protein during the day for healthy body function.

How Much Should I Eat to Lose Weight?

It’s tempting to view losing weight as simple math: that to lose weight you just need to eat fewer calories than you burn off.

While that is not necessarily untrue, it can lead to unhealthy decision-making.

It’s important to realize that all calories are not created equal. Intake of “good” calories can actually catalyze weight loss, and conversely, “bad” calories will trigger weight gain.

As for bad calories, the big baddy to watch out for is processed carbs (sugars, grains, etc). Anything that spikes insulin production. The Primal Blueprint program encourages us to consume less than 150 grams of *any* kind of carbs per day:

graph of carbohydrates and weight loss

(click on the image for an expanded view)

Now, if you’re like me, you’re challenged to think of your food serving sizes in terms of grams. Not to worry.

There are apps out there now that do all the thinking for us. I use MyFitnessPal. You simply type in the food you’re about to eat, and it offers you a selection of serving sizes to choose from. Pick one, and all of a sudden the app can tell you how many grams of carbs/fat/protein/etc it has. The app will help you set targets for your daily food intake and track your progress during the day to let you know how little (or how much) you have left in your eating budget. It’s a great way to quickly and easily get an exact answer to the question: How much should I eat today?

And there are days where I find it challenging to consume all the app tells me I’m supposed to, especially protein. If anything, there are more days where I feel like I’m eating more than I’d rather vs days where I want to eat more. And this is coming from a guy who really enjoys food.

On top of that, eating such a well-balanced, low-insulin-producing diet is much more sating. Without the swings in blood sugar, hunger cravings nearly disappear. Whereas my eating schedule used to be dictated by how aggressively my stomach demanded to be filled (which I would often try to appease through snacking between meals), now I eat by the clock. It’s not uncommon for me to forget about a meal if I get busy with a project, because my stomach rarely reminds me the way it used to.

My Top Steps for Losing Weight

If you’re looking to lose weight this year — in a healthy way — here are the top steps I would advise taking, based on my own experience:

  • Stop eating refined sugars and processed carbs — This is the single biggest step to take. Ridding your diet of sugary foods is challenging (because sugar is added to nearly everything), but most of us can live without the worst offenders like sodas and desserts. It’s the grains that were the hardest for me to give up. Breads, pastas, cereals — they taste good, have great mouth feel, and are everywhere in the American diet. But as we’ve discussed on this site in numerous podcasts, they not only promote weight gain, but they trigger inflammation which fosters joint degradation and cardiovascular disease. If you have yet to rid your diet of sugars/grains and you start doing so now, you’ll likely see notable weight loss within 2 weeks from this one step alone.
  • Cut down your dairy and alcohol intake — You don’t have to go to zero, but consume these sparingly. Most of us realize the dangers of too much alcohol, but here’s a quick summary of why dairy should be limited in a human adult diet.
  • Eat whole foods — In a nutshell, that’s meats and vegetables, nuts and seeds, some fruits, little starch and no sugar. The literature on nutrition these days is vast, and can be a little overwhelming for the uninitiated — but the Primal Blueprint infographics shared above tell you most of what you need to know. Good resources for expanding your nutritional knowledge are our diet-related podcasts with Robb WolfMark Sisson and David Seaman. Nutritional programs worth investigating are the PaleoPrimal and Zone diets. It sure won’t hurt to consult with a professional nutritionist to discuss your personal health situation and goals.
  • Track everything you eat during the day — This is called ‘keeping a food diary’. The logic is that recording what you eat makes you much more mindful of what you decide to put in your mouth. This actually works. It forces you to ask yourself: Do I really need/want that? Tracking also helps you monitor how much you’ve consumed through the day, so that you’re in much less danger of mindlessly overeating. You can use a standard notebook as a journal, but I prefer using an app like MyFitnessPal, which I mentioned earlier. It makes it dead easy to not only track your food intake, but to know what type of food (protein, fat, carbs, etc) you have left still to eat in the day vs what you’ve already hit your daily limit on.
  • Prepare your own meals whenever possible — Making your own meals has many benefits. First off, it’s cheaper than buying prepared food. It also helps you develop a sense for “building a meal” based on its nutrients — you’re choosing foods that will complement each other not just by taste, but also by fuel type. I highly recommend preparing multiple meals at once to eat later in the week, which will minimize the risk of making bad food choices in the moment, because you have smart options at the ready.
  • Eat a light, early dinner — Willpower acts very much as a muscle does. It gets stronger the more it gets exercised. But it also tires throughout the day, which is why most “bad” eating happens at night, when our mental resolve is sapped. Americans often eat 50% or more of their calories late in the day, going to bed on a full stomach that spends all night figuring out how to store the mass of food just ingested. You should aspire to the opposite. Eat the majority of your calories in the first half of the day while you’re active and need energy, and let your digestive system shut down at bedtime without burden. Personally, I found that switching to a light dinner, or sometimes skipping dinner entirely, had one of the biggest impacts on dropping my weight.
  • Recruit a support system — This is a big one. Studies show that the #1 success factor most correlated with weight loss, particularly weight loss that is maintained once achieved, is the presence of a good support system. If possible, find a few friends who are willing to commit to losing weight along with you. Having people who can commiserate during the tough days, who encourage you when your willpower is wavering and praise you as you make progress, is a HUGE advantage in remaining committed to your diet plan. MyFitnessPal helps with this, allowing you and your friends to track each others’ eating habits and offer encouragement. In addition to friends, make sure your family is aware of your goals and has your back. You not only want their emotional support, but you want to make sure that the food choices at your dining table won’t be working against your interests.
  • Stop using food as a reward or a social centerpiece — For many of us, food is more than simply fuel; it’s an emotional crutch. We turn to certain meals to reward ourselves, or make us feel better when we’re depressed. Food is often used as the reason for gathering together socially. This kind of non-essential eating is so wired into our psyches that it’s hard to escape. But it doesn’t have to be that way — we can replace food’s non-nutritive role with other substitutes. Oftentimes, eating can be replaced by another activity without any loss of social enjoyment or self-soothing. Instead of that big group Sunday brunch, why not invite everyone on a hike? Bring along a picnic of sensible foods and leave the Belgian waffles behind. With a little practice, you’ll find plenty of ways to exchange unneeded calories for memory-making experiences.
  • Weigh yourself/take measurements regularly — As they say in business, “if it doesn’t get measured, it doesn’t get moved”. Take a before photo. Record your weight each week. As you begin to see results, you’ll be inspired to commit further to the program to protect the progress you’ve made. And if you’re not seeing progress after a few weeks, there’s likely a flaw in your approach. Take an honest hard look at your behavior — are you following all of the steps above, without sabotaging yourself anywhere? If you really believe you are, then consult a nutritionist or a physician — they can help assess the situation, or determine if a larger health issue may be at play.
  • Replace your clothes as you lose weight — As you lose inches around your waist, invest in new clothes. Not only will they make your progress more visible, but they’ll serve as an “early detection system” to warn you if you start lapsing in your eating behavior. Myself, I’ve dropped from a size 36 waist to a 33. If my new pants ever start feeling tight, it’s an immediate signal to me to pay more attention to my food habits. Usually within a day or two of mindful focus, the tightness recedes. If I were wearing my old pants, I’m sure I’d mindlessly loosen my belt one more notch and not notice the reversion until I’d packed on several more pounds.
  • Don’t let perfect be the enemy of ‘good enough’ — Keep in mind that Rome wasn’t built in a day. Nor will your new body. The process you’re undertaking needs to be sustainable. It shouldn’t feel like a death-march, nor an “all or nothing” venture. You will make mistakes. You will have set-backs. You will be at birthday parties where it’s expected you’ll have a bite of cake, or raise a glass in toast. Build in an expectation of and tolerance for these eventualities and don’t let them derail your commitment to progress. The objective is to move forward more than you move back. If you do, you’ll lose the weight over time, in a natural-feeling procession that will be manageable to maintain.

That’s it. If you can follow the steps above with discipline, the weight will come off.

Nutrition Is Just One Part Of Functional Health

Now, my personal health transformation wasn’t due to just diet alone. Ideally, yours shouldn’t be either.

Your progress will be materially helped by concurrently engaging in the other key pillars of functional health:

  • a fitness regime (especially focused on constantly varied functional movement at relatively high intensity)
  • mobility
  • stress management
  • practicing good sleep hygiene
  • a support community

This is why we featured functional health expert Dr Rich Stagliano at the recent Peak Prosperity seminar, in which he recommended the most valuable behaviors to adopt to advance our health across each of these.

In Part 2: Achieving Full Functional Health we make available the full replay video of Dr Stagliano’s presentation. It provides an excellent and actionable overview of the steps that will benefit your body and mind most from here.

As Schopenhauer put it: “Health isn’t everything; but without it, everything else is nothing.”

So there really is no better investment you can make in 2021 than improving and safeguarding your own health as well as the health of those you love.

Click here to read Part 2 of this report (free executive summary, enrollment required for full access).

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101 Comments

  • Sat, Jan 09, 2021 - 7:28am

    #1
    hhe

    hhe

    Status: Member

    Joined: May 19 2020

    Posts: 2

    5

    Excellent advice on nutrition !

    The "Prosperity" food pyramid referenced above is as far as from the Standard American Diet (SAD - how appropriate) you can get.  SAD has grains and other high-in-carbo foods as the base of the pyramid - here it's not even in the pyramid.  Farmers use grains to fatten livestock before slaughter - same result for humans.

    Consumption of the foods in the Prosperity pyramid has been reduced during the 20. century and foods from the SAD pyramid have increased drastically the last 40 years, with a rising obesity epidemic during the same time.  Yet the FDA continues recommending SAD, and telling people to eat as little as possible from the Prosperity pyramid base.

    Adam does not address one vital point though (or I ignored it) which is the frequency of your meals.  50 years ago people were not snacking constantly.  They had three or four meals a day.  Reducing the frequency of meals will greatly lower your insulin levels (the fat storing hormone) in between.  Insulin is your friend until it isn't, and the body turns against it.  Insulin resistance plays a big part in the consequences of the virus.  Also any prolonged period of not eating will trigger growth hormone generation and body self repair.

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  • Sat, Jan 09, 2021 - 7:35am

    #2
    Susan7

    Susan7

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 15 2020

    Posts: 110

    3

    Good Advice but.....

    I appreciate much of what you wrote, especially eliminating sugar and processed refined foods. But I have to tell you, men and women lose weight differently, and this is not just the rate of fat loss but other factors as well such as hormonal differences. Many women, if not most, have dieted via calorie restriction many times throughout their lives. As a result their metabolisms are down-regulated and they have a successively harder time dropping excess weight. The fact is, calories in, calories out is a mantra unsupported by science, along with the FDA food pyramid. Your suggestions are very good and lead to health. But I would gain weight on  100 g of carb per day. I have to fast almost continuously to see any results now.

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  • Sat, Jan 09, 2021 - 7:56am

    #3
    Bill in La Mesa

    Bill in La Mesa

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 16 2020

    Posts: 9

    4

    Letter on Corpulence

    My favorite guide to weight loss comes from William Banting's 1863 "Letter on Corpulence".

    https://www.gutenberg.org/files/57545/57545-h/57545-h.htm

    It's actually a very entertaining read in the language of the period.  Sample the first paragraph, & you'll be hooked:

    Of all the parasites that affect humanity I do not know of, nor can I imagine any more distressing than that of Obesity, and having just emerged from a very long probation in this affliction, I am desirous of circulating my humble knowledge and experience for the benefit of my fellow man, with an earnest hope it may lead to the same comfort and happiness I now feel under the extraordinary change—which might almost be termed miraculous had it not been accomplished by the most simple common sense means.

    ------------------

    Basically carb restriction.  Everything old is new again.  Enjoy!

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  • Sat, Jan 09, 2021 - 8:01am

    #4

    LesPhelps

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2009

    Posts: 664

    7

    Primal is healthier than the Standard American Diet

    However, it falls significantly short of maximizing personal health.

    I’ve wearied somewhat of pushing healthy eating and faced the fact that people simply won’t face food addictions straight on.

    However, If you are curious, watch the documentary “The Game Changers” on Netflix, or find a copy of the documentary “Forks Over Knives.”  After a long run, it’s been dropped from Netflix.

    Alternately, read the book “The China Study.”  It’s on the Peak Prosperity recommended reading list.  That’s where I found it and it entirely changed what I eat.

    Thanks for having “The China Study” on your recommended reading list Peak Prosperity.  It’s the single best thing you’ve done for me over the years.

    As for me, over three years into a new lifestyle my untreated combined cholesterol hovers at 135.  According to meta analysis, talked about in “The China Study,” people with cholesterol 150 or lower, don’t have heart attacks.  Cardiovascular disease is either arrested, or begins to reverse.  I no longer am concerned about having a heart attack and am similarly comfortable that my chances of experiencing most other chronic health conditions is dramatically reduced.

    “Let food be thy medicine.”
    - Hippocrates

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  • Sat, Jan 09, 2021 - 8:03am

    #5
    suziegruber

    suziegruber

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Dec 03 2008

    Posts: 224

    6

    How Is Great & There's Another Piece To The Puzzle

    Hi Adam,
    Thanks for this very helpful, strategic information on how to lose weight.

    I want to name that there is another important piece to this puzzle that is now being recognized.  Many, many people do all of the right things to lose weight for a time and then stop and regain a lot of weight.  They often judge themselves harshly for their choices.

    The missing piece to this puzzle lies in how we think about ourselves and what we believe about ourselves.  In a word, it comes down to our identity which is often something we are not even aware of.  Our identity is formed as a result of our earliest experiences and the more our early environment was deficient in some way (misattunement, neglect, abuse), the more likely we struggle to create what we want in our lives.  Because our relationship to food is tied into basic survival, many of us have a very complex relationship to food.  Some people use excess weight as a substitute for expressing healthy boundaries.  Some people use it to emotionally soothe themselves.  Some people struggle with sustaining weight loss because they struggle to let themselves succeed at anything that matters to them.

    As a result of all of this, in addition to appropriate weight loss strategies, if someone struggles to lose weight, it's important for them to ask themselves, on an emotional level, what's in the way of them losing weight.

    A whole important field of psychology was born out of this very dilemma of the difficulty in losing weight.  Back in the 1990s Dr. Vincent Felitti was running a weight loss clinic for Kaiser in San Diego and he wondered why so many of his patients would get so close to their weight loss goals and then go backwards.  The result of this question became the Adverse Childhood Experiences study (ACEs), a groundbreaking study that for the first time linked chronic illness to unfortunate early childhood experiences.

    Anyone curious about their ACEs score can take the simple test.

    This is not about labeling anyone a victim or about making parents bad.  It's about understanding what may be driving difficulty for so many people. If you have tried everything to make your life better or get over certain hurdles, this could be your missing piece.  It was mine.

    ACEs understanding is now affecting community mental health and public policy in a big way.

    Anyone curious about ACEs can learn a lot more at ACEs Connection or you can message me through the site.  This is the work I do every day with folks.

    Here's to resilience building!

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  • Sat, Jan 09, 2021 - 8:03am

    hhe

    hhe

    Status: Member

    Joined: May 19 2020

    Posts: 2

    4

    Feeding your microbes

    Calorie restriction may lower your metabolism, and it seems that the body reacts more to a poor meal than no meal at all, so a strategy can be to reduce the number of meals and increase the time between the last meal of the day and the first meal of the next day.

    Microbes were on the planet before us, and some say humans are just a microbe motel with arms and legs.  The microbes play a vital role in processing and extracting nutrients from the food we eat.  People have become obese when receiving gut bacteriae from an obese donor.  Microbes can be regulated to some extent , but we do not now a great deal of how they interact with us.

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  • Sat, Jan 09, 2021 - 8:23am

    #7

    SagerXX

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Feb 11 2009

    Posts: 479

    8

    Paleo for the win!

    I've been Paleo for about ten years now.  Giant piles of veggies topped with healthy/clean proteins.  Dropped from 235 to about 205 and am in better shape that men 10-15 years younger than me (55).  Pilates, free weights, Tai Ji Quan, swimming, dancing.  After a while, it gets to be second nature and it's not a "diet".  It's just a way of being.  Don't diet -- change your relationship to food.

    One of our core "preps" -- the healthiest bod possible.

    VIVA -- Sager

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  • Sat, Jan 09, 2021 - 8:42am

    Realteal

    Realteal

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 07 2009

    Posts: 6

    5

    There are some problems with The China Study (and veganism)

    I'd suggest reading 'Death by Food Pyramid' by Minger for the (entertaining) history on why we're in our current fix.  (Also, 'The Cholesterol Myth' and 'The Salt Fix', especially before you trust our 'medical managers, to quote Chris 🙂

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  • Sat, Jan 09, 2021 - 9:58am

    Susan7

    Susan7

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 15 2020

    Posts: 110

    0

    Susan7 said:

    Susie, I appreciate what you wrote, but while of course there’s an emotional component to overeating I don’t think that’s the driving factor. I’ve heard this all my life, that overeating is rooted in complex personal problems but I don’t buy it anymore. The world wide obesity epidemic is the result of what we are consuming. A hundred years ago we just didn’t have the massive amounts of heart disease and diabetes that we see today. Even the Chinese have a major obesity problem and their Type2 diabetes rates have skyrocketed. I think there’s much more evidence that as we have moved away from paleo ways of eating to consuming predominantly processed, refined carbs we have developed disordered metabolisms (metabolic syndrome) which are responsible for our modern diseases. We should go back to eating the way our great grandparents did.

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  • Sat, Jan 09, 2021 - 10:06am

    MKI

    MKI

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jan 12 2009

    Posts: 321

    7

    Adam has it right

    But I have to tell you, men and women lose weight differently, and this is not just the rate of fat loss but other factors as well such as hormonal differences. Many women, if not most, have dieted via calorie restriction many times throughout their lives. As a result their metabolisms are down-regulated and they have a successively harder time dropping excess weight.

    4 females here, all ages, 5-50. By eating meat & eggs & veg, all eat until satisfied and don't restrict intake as long as it's meat, fish, or veg. Females gain and lose weight just like the males eating the same food.

    However, when any, male or female, indulge in cheese, fruit, grains/legumes, milk products, they gain weight immediately. It's a simple equation. Adam has it exactly right.

    What is most interesting: it doesn't matter how much exercise. We are very active, yet this has little noticeable effect on our weight or girth. It's all diet, all the time. Eat any grains, legumes, fruit, or milk products, it shows up on the gut typically that week or next. Again, Adam has it exactly correct.

    But very few people have the will to clean up their diet. That is, eat zero processed foods and all meat, fish, veg (no seed oils).

    One huge benefit to a healthy diet is also no cavities, no doctor visits, no birthing issues. Diet is like magic. 90% of the health issues are due to diet. We know, since we used to eat tons of grains & fruit & milk, and had all the usual problems (cavities, weight, illnesses). Once diet was fixed, all the problems went away. None of us (double-digit) has seen a doc in over 5 years, nor gotten sick in years. Diet is magic.

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  • Sat, Jan 09, 2021 - 10:27am

    MKI

    MKI

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jan 12 2009

    Posts: 321

    0

    Better shape than men 10-15 years younger

    Sager: am in better shape than men 10-15 years younger than me (55).

    Yep. I'm your age and even bald yet get mistaken for 30 all the time. All due to diet; you can especially see it in skin and posture.

    One thing you said I would caveat: After a while, it gets to be second nature and it's not a "diet". Many (most?) are addicted to processed food/grains/sugar - I personally can't have them anywhere near. These foods are highly addictive for many of us. Granted, if I just never see them I don't miss them and am fully satiated when eating, so I agree with your primary point.

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  • Sat, Jan 09, 2021 - 10:51am

    suziegruber

    suziegruber

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Dec 03 2008

    Posts: 224

    3

    When The Body Says No

    Hi Susan,
    I appreciate your reply.  I think it's a complex issue with a lot of overlapping elements.  IMO, food choice and access to quality food are part of it as are emotional elements

    For anyone interested in the the connection between chronic disease and trauma, Gabor Mate wrote a great book called When The Body Says No - Understanding the Stress-Disease Connection.  Here's a paragraph from the book.

    “The salient stressors in the lives of most human beings today — at least in the industrialized world — are emotional. Just like laboratory animals unable to escape, people find themselves trapped in lifestyles and emotional patterns inimical to their health. The higher the level of economic development, it seems, the more anaesthetized we have become to our emotional realities. We no longer sense what is happening in our bodies and cannot therefore act in self-preserving ways. The physiology of stress eats away at our bodies not because it has outlived its usefulness but because we may no longer have the competence to recognize its signals.”

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  • Sat, Jan 09, 2021 - 12:29pm

    #13
    wildcountry

    wildcountry

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 14 2020

    Posts: 4

    1

    soda

    I happen to see a 20oz bottle of Fanta  soda last night - 83 grams of sugar in 20oz............I had to go change my undies!!

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  • Sat, Jan 09, 2021 - 12:57pm

    #14
    2retired

    2retired

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 20 2020

    Posts: 106

    3

    2retired said:

    Pure white and deadly by Yudkin (its about sugar), published, and suppressed, in the 70's, the author marginalized and shunned, would have save thousands of live but for the sugar lobby and corporate corruption. Seems like history repeating. Still a good read.

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  • Sat, Jan 09, 2021 - 2:17pm

    #15

    Quercus bicolor

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Mar 19 2008

    Posts: 497

    1

    Nourishing Traditions

    Has anyone used or practiced the diet in Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon?  I've been getting back into it lately and find it compelling.  It does include grains and legumes, but emphasizes animal products, fats and veggies with some fruit and dairy.

    It's main focus is on preparation.  Most dairy products, some veggies, some meats and condiments are fermented.  Grains are with few exceptions fermented overnight with whey drained from yogurt, sprouted, or cultured with sourdough.  Legumes and seeds receive these treatments too.  The approach is based on the work of Weston Price who researched traditional diets in the 1930s and found that any seed based food in particular (grains, legumes, seeds) were almost exclusively treated in this way in order to remove/neutralie enzyme inhibitors and other dormancy inducing/protecting compounds in the seeds. Phytic acid is one of the important ones.  This increases both nutrients and digestibility.

    Does anyone have any experience with this or some general thoughts?

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  • Sat, Jan 09, 2021 - 2:58pm

    #16
    Penguin Will

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    Penguin Will said:

    For those worried about dieting causing a lower metabolism, this is why you exercise when dieting. It keeps your motor running hot. One thing to beware of, you're a little more susceptible to exercise related injuries when you are cutting weight.

    Run strong, lift heavy, sleep long.

    Will

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  • Sat, Jan 09, 2021 - 4:02pm

    #17
    MKI

    MKI

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    Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon

    Has anyone used or practiced the diet in Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon?

    We've read her. We don't use her cookbooks, but she's a Weston A. Price Foundation person, so of course she's right on target. It may have been after reading her we started making our own sauerkraut every few weeks (which makes a noticeable difference; Captain Cook did the same to keep his crews  healthy on long sea voyages vit K & C).

    Weston Price had all this figured out way back in 1930, a dentist who traveled the world to find anyone who hadn't yet ruined their diets (and teeth) by eating grains, seed oils, and sugars. There were very few people left, only in remote places. He's the one who posited Vitamin K or "activator X" before it was even discovered. His book is free online and will forever change one's ideas of diet.

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  • Sat, Jan 09, 2021 - 4:28pm

    #18
    Nate

    Nate

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    diet

    At this point in time we are fortunate to select the diet of our choice.  Red meat, white meat, no meat - you make the call.  What does the future hold?  I don't know, but I think the dietary choices available today will be much more limited in the future.

    The meals my wife prepares are largely driven by what the garden produces and the food we have preserved.  Today a large (and really beautiful) cauliflower needed to be picked and eaten.  Our counter also has freshly picked carrots and lettuce on it (10 minutes old).  There is a roast from our home grown steer thawing from the freezer.  50 feet is real local.

    The luxury of eating anything you want when you want to eat it is an artifact of peak oil.  It takes time to get in sync with home grown and local produce.  But its necessary.

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  • Sat, Jan 09, 2021 - 7:51pm

    LesPhelps

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    Problems with the China Study

    See what I mean about not facing food addictions head on?

    All it takes is criticism from anyone, regardless of their credentials or the source of their funding and it muddies the waters.

    Ive been reading on this subject regularly for several years now and the evidence is clear, overwhelming, in fact.

    But, for me, that’s not even necessary any longer.   I can feel the health improvement and can see it across the board in my lab results.

    Perhaps you can criticize that?

    Or you could watch “The Game Changers.”  It’s got to be one of the most entertaining documentaries ever filmed.

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  • Sat, Jan 09, 2021 - 7:59pm

    Mohammed Mast

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    MKI

    Weston Price actually documented the diet of the islanders of the Hebrides. The staple of their diet was oatmeal. So grains are not necessarily bad for you. He has a picture of two brothers. One remained on the island the other moved to London. The islander had perfect teeth and was very healthy. The Londoner was in poor health with rotten teeth.

    Oats were more than food. Oat thatch was used for the roofs. Open fires were burned inside and the smoke would percolate up through the thatch. When it was time for a new roof the thatch was spread on the oat fields for fertilizer. Growing the oats w/o the thatch resulted in weak spindly plants while with the thatch they were very healthy.

    Different parts of the world relied on different indigenous WHOLE foods.

    Weston also described the condition of the soils and the degradation and lack of nutrients. If the soil does not contain the nutrients your food won't either. It's been 90 years of food grown on degraded soil. Amerikaans consume almost 40x the sugar that was consumed in 1776. Amerikaans consume more HFCS than any other people on the planet. Amerikaans suffer more heart disease and diabetes than any other country.

    Is it any wonder Amerikaans are having the worst outcomes with the SC2 virus?

    Fat does not make you fat sugar makes you fat.

    Trivia question:what is the largest crop in the world by weight.

    One Satoshi for the correct answer. lol

     

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  • Sat, Jan 09, 2021 - 8:10pm

    #21
    Mohammed Mast

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    Hari Dass Baba

    Hari Dass Baba was a yogi in India and disciple of Neem Karoli Baba.

    He maintained silence and would communicate with a chalkboard.

    He was asked once whether it was more spiritual to eat meat or be vegetarian.

    His answer was, " Rules for eating exist when food is plentiful. When food is scarce one will eat anything"

    Another Indian sage is quoted as saying "It is more important what comes out of your mouth than what goes in it"

    Food for thought

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  • Sat, Jan 09, 2021 - 8:26pm

    Quercus bicolor

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    3

    grains and Weston Price

    His big conclusion about grains is that they were nearly always sprouted, soaked at least overnight with some liquid from a fermented food added to the soaking water, or made into sourdough before cooking and eating.

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  • Sun, Jan 10, 2021 - 5:29am

    #23
    Baron Bar

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    Food Pyramid is Very Wrong

    Hello Adam Taggart,
    The food pyramid you show if very wrong, and in the long term keeping to that diet will cause much damage and premature death. Please educate yourself on evidence-based peer-reviewed literature before posting information like this. A good source for non-professionals is Dr. Greger of Nutrition Facts. Look here:
    https://nutritionfacts.org/

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  • Sun, Jan 10, 2021 - 5:35am

    #24
    brushhog

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    My new years resolution

    Is to lose 25 pounds. Its also to take a long, brisk walk every single day. These lockdowns havent done my health any good.

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  • Sun, Jan 10, 2021 - 6:24am

    #25
    lorro14

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    lorro14 said:

    Are milk alternatives such as unsweetened almond milk still OK? I know it's not ideal as it's processed but I switched to it due to having lactose intolerance. From what I've read it's supposed to be lower fat.

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  • Sun, Jan 10, 2021 - 6:43am

    #26
    nedyne

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    Not science-based

    I'm surprised that Peak Prosperity keeps banging on paleo diets, despite claiming to be a science-based place. I read the Primal Blueprint book years ago when they did a podcast with Sisson. Paleo diets have no scientific backing. In fact, they fly in the face of the preponderance of scientific evidence. You can lose weight on paleo diets, but you can lose weight on steroids too. Losing weight is not evidence that it's healthy. And that's their problem, they are unhealthy. T. Colin Campbell, a nutrition scientist, picks apart the topic in the book The Low-Carb Fraud. Also, nutritionfacts.org has plenty of science material on what constitutes a healthy diet and why paleo is not healthy.
    Just because you can raise animals in your homestead and you think that raising animals is part of your idea of regeneration, that doesn't mean that eating mostly meat and animal fat is the ideal diet. Science can answer that question independently of your pre-conceived notions.

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  • Sun, Jan 10, 2021 - 7:44am

    brushhog

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    A true 'hunter gather' model

    A truly hunter gather model of diet would be extremely healthy. There's no question about that as samples of arterial images of aboriginal peoples have stunned doctors. They have found older native men and women with completely clean arteries.

    There are several differences between "real" hunter gatherers and what is pushed in alot [ but not all ] of the paleo movements;

    1. The overall volume of meat [ and food ] consumed by real "paleo" hunter gatherer societies is much smaller than what is usually proposed by the modern pseudo paleo movement. Most of their calories come from the "gathering" portion of their lifestyle, and meats are a much smaller percentage of their calorie consumption.

    2. The animals they consume are wild. Wild game has a different nutritional make up.

    3. They starve. Long term fasting is a part of the hunter gatherer's life. They dont always eat. Thats a concept that most modern people cant wrap their heads around. You can go a long, long time without much food. They are only just starting to understand how regular prolonged fasts effect the body and the metabolism.

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  • Sun, Jan 10, 2021 - 8:08am

    #28
    MKI

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    Price and Paleo

    Weston Price actually documented the diet of the islanders of the Hebrides. The staple of their diet was oatmeal. So grains are not necessarily bad for you. He has a picture of two brothers.

    Sure. I know the exact picture you are talking about. And if you examined the calorie intake of the brother who ate oats and was healthy, you would see 1) there was low/moderate grain caloric intake, and b) he ate lots, lots, lots of other nutrient rich foods. We moderns eat gobs of food, and most of it grain-based. Why moderns are so fat.

    The problem Price found is that our diets pushed out nutrient dense foods by eating grains and other nutrient-low foods, not that grains are some sort of poison we can't eat at all. We actually eat rice and oats in moderation (but always alongside eggs or wild salmon or wild game heart/liver/kidney or wild game bone marrow).

     

    Losing weight is not evidence that it's healthy.

    One of the things that makes me laugh is people talking about dieting, or calorie restriction. We eat 2 huge meals a day, as much as we want, with lots of meat, fat, fish, veg, eggs,  and minor nuts/grains/legumes, and always full and never hungry during the day and night (except on Friday when we go down to 1 meal, but even that doesn't make me very hungry anymore). There is simply no question paleo works great; my whole family is lean and muscular and has great medical numbers (BP, glucose, HR). But a decade ago eating grains/milk/fruits we were constantly sick and fat. There is simply zero doubt. The best health metrics to look at is height/weight ratio and how athletic one is (1 mile running speed, squat/deadlift/bench weights). Just look at Adam's pictures - they tell the whole story.

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  • Sun, Jan 10, 2021 - 8:23am

    MKI

    MKI

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    Hunter gather model

    1. Most of their calories come from the "gathering" portion of their lifestyle, and meats are a much smaller percentage of their calorie consumption.

    Not the Eskimos; they are like 90%. We have found we can eat as much meat/eggs/fish as we want with zero issues. Many years of data, double-digit fam. Meat/eggs are the key. I do agree if one eats rich carbs caloric restriction is kinda necessary, so we don't do that.

    2. The animals they consume are wild. Wild game has a different nutritional make up.

    Agree with this for sure. All our meats/fish are wild game only (we spend a lot of time harvesting), plus we grow a garden and seek our own eggs for this very reason. Yes, many can't do this, but they can go in for their own cow or pig they feed themselves plus eat the marrow/organ meat. It can be done.

    3. They starve. Long term fasting is a part of the hunter gatherer's life. They dont always eat. Thats a concept that most modern people cant wrap their heads around.

    We solve this two ways: two meals a day gives our stomachs time to rest without ever feeling hungry (high fat diets satiate). Also, we fast 1/week (in a minor way). It works with very little discomfort. It's actually best not to "starve" but to just give the stomach a rest and burn any fat one has that day. Once getting used to this, it's not even noticeable.

    One doesn't need to guess about nutrition. Like Adam, you can see it in your mirror, bench press weights, running times, and medical numbers (heart rate, glucose, etc.). There is simply zero doubt.

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  • Sun, Jan 10, 2021 - 8:23am

    #30
    2retired

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    2retired said:

    what diets are 'science based'? depends on whose 'science'. For several years I went into a deep dive of nutrition 'science' and tried to get to the sources of various points of view and where their original 'data' sets came from (not always easy). There is so much observer bias, merging of correlation/causation, selective data (basis for Mediterranean diet) and outright fraud (usually commercially beneficial to someone), that few generalization hold water. For me, Micheal Pollen's books get the closest to balancing things. Medical buy in of the high fat anti cholesterol mantra does not get my vote, but most practitioners have drunk the cool-aid.

    I like to say ' figure out what you like to eat, and then find a study to justify it'.

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  • Sun, Jan 10, 2021 - 8:34am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    2

    Almond Milk

    We make our own. It is super easy. All you need is a blender. Soak the almonds overnight or longer. Blend it up, strain it and voila. We eat the pulp as well . You can add some cacao powder or cocoa for some flavor and added nutrition. Or add some vanilla.

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  • Sun, Jan 10, 2021 - 9:00am

    HiFiber

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    Concurrent with the archeological record.

    Agree.  First off, using a food pyramid  is a very poor choice.  How does this symbol in any way reflect the biology of the real?  (Totally appropriate for a discussion about central banking and control of human consciousness though).  Second,  the before and after pics,  uhg!!!  Felt like like the commercial birth of the Geico caveman and Weightwatchers baby.  Sorry to be critical, but how does a sample size of one and static photos taken years ago reflect your current reality.  How bout a pic from yesterday.  As far as our strategy here in rural central New York.  Mostly Whole Plant Based.  Little bit of local ag animal meat and wild game.  There’s just no way we can afford to have animals as our number 1 food source when we’re surrounded by so many edible plants.  Problem is don’t know what’s edible.  And of course as another post mentioned, fasting!!!! At least one day a week.  Other tips,  breath through your nose, easy and slow and deal with those Adverse Childhood issues.  But by God Food has to be majority local

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  • Sun, Jan 10, 2021 - 9:13am

    #33
    Mr Curious

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    That's pretty keto bro

    I've noticed over the years is that optimal diets are quite unique to each individual. Personally, my food pyramid has non-GMO vegetables on the bottom as most abundant with meat much higher up. Interestingly, I feel stronger, more alert etc... on a high plant-based diet than I do on high meat; the exact opposite of the pale anemic vegetarian stereotype.

    Regarding the app, my personal feeling is that using some app is just that much more staring into the phone while recording all your personal information and sending it to the corporation. If your diet is natural to you, why on earth do you need that? The reason I bring this up is because the path to freedom, I think, will be having at least some aspects of your life outside of all the surveillance, but that's maybe a topic for a different forum.

    c) hhe made an interesting comment above somewhere about microbial populations. Interestingly, two people can have the exact same diet with one personal getting fat on it while the other is lean. These observations have been done with mice as well and it has everything to do with the pre-existing microbial populations that have been built up in your system over time. The more you can get away from processed foods the better chance you have at a healthier microbiome. What would high fructose corn syrup, glyphosate and yellow dye #5 have done with the caveman digestive system?

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  • Sun, Jan 10, 2021 - 9:50am

    LesPhelps

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    Look Again

    Inuits have terrible overall health and a shortened lifespan.

    Peak Prosperity is supposed to be about researching the science and changing behavior when understanding changes.

    I’m not seeing a preponderance of that here.

    As mentioned here, nutrition facts.org does a great job of organizing research in the field of nutrition.  It’s an excellent place to start, when you want to research a specific subset of nutritional science research.

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  • Sun, Jan 10, 2021 - 10:20am

    #35
    tbp

    tbp

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    Spot-on health advice, well said!

    Adam dude, show your late-30s belly! I was overweight-to-obese in my mid-20s, I decided to change it by simpy eating less and less... over several months I lost the belly fat but also lost a lot of muscle (a sub-optimal method of, as you put it, "deprivation and [slight] suffering"). This was before I got educated and took control over my own health by reading the best doctors and health information sources in the world such as Dr. Mercola and NaturalNews. The simplest way to do it is simply to quit carbs. Counting calories is useless in comparison. Eliminate bread, pasta, potatoes, rice, legumes, soda (i.e. liquid sugar, the worst offender), etc, by slowly replacing them with other things, either keto alternatives or simply by increasing healthy fats (i.e. saturated fats contrary to the fake advice from the pharma-controlled medical system, healthy monounsaturated fats like unheated olive oil, avocado, eggs, and omega-3 polyunsaturated fats from small/non-contaminated fish like sardines or krill oil supplements), healthy proteins (organic animal products), and non-carby vegetables and (non-sweet) fruit (unless you have digestive troubles and can't tolerate fiber). Research keto eating, you don't really have to go full keto (i.e. extremely low-carb diet), you just have to transition to a low-carb diet. Going keto is the extra mile, I did it for a couple of months but it got a bit boring and time-consuming.

    Sweetness can be replaced with the healthy sweeteners: erythritol (a sugar alcohol like maltitol/sorbitol/etc but without any GI distress), stevia, and monk fruit. Beware the other sugar alternatives: aspartame is the worst one with effects like MSG+formaldehyde (also found in vaccines), sucralose will destroy your microbiome (do not drink it as those are massive doses), others cause annoying GI distress as mentioned.

    Agreed with Mark Sisson’s Primal Blueprint, only replace mercury-containing and fish-burping fish oil with krill oil. If milk is hard to quit (as a northern European I grew up with milk but it still wasn't hard to quit it for years), try to find A2 cow milk over A1, or better yet transition to goat milk as it doesn't have the nasty opioidergic and membrane-damaging inflammation-causing casein proteins. It took me several months to get used to the taste, but I now prefer goat milk. Non-organic goat milk is also often of an acceptable standard, unlike non-organic cow milk. Almond and other non-soy vegetable milks are also ok if you sweeten them with stevia/etc, although personally I avoid the ones with high amounts of rock (calcium carbonate).

    Many people think fruits in general are healthy, but in reality today's fruits are far sweeter than they should be and the fructose they contain literally acts as a "fat storage switch", because fruits used to be available only during summer so our bodies (which are essentially unchanged since 11,000 years ago when we invented agriculture) adapted to storing the excess energy as fat in order to more easily survive the winter.

    And then there's FASTING. It's incredibly easy and extremely beneficial to skip breakfast or dinner. That's already called intermittent fasting, and it has extreme health benefits, by allowing your digestive system to rest and to have very stable glucose and insulin for longer periods, allowing other healing/repair processes to activate. Ever ate a lot shortly before bedtime and then woke up far from refreshed? I find that if I haven't eaten several hours before sleep, I'm at the point where I can get away with 4-6h sleep easily. Nonetheless I usually skip breakfast and eat 1-2 meals a day, usually only dinner and later a small extra meal (or double-dinner when we have cannabis ;). You can also do it in reverse (eat breakfast, skip dinner). You can even "cheat" or "boost" your fasting benefits by combining it with sirtuin activators like pterostilbene (calorie restriction mimicker). The very idea that one needs 2000 calories a day seems designed to cause disease. It's about nutrients and metabolism efficiency, not about calories.

    But also movement in general. Exercising 20min hardcore burns far less calories than slightly moving for 6h a day. If you sit at a desk for many hours like me, use the 20-20-20 rule (every 20min get up and move for 20sec while looking at objects 20m away), to preserve your figure and agility as well as your eyesight. A couch is even worse than a desk, don't sit for more than 20min at a time. As you've probably heard, sitting is the new smoking, so move, move, move. After just simply moving, try to do exercises of each type: stretching (e.g. yoga, pilates), weight-bearing (lifts, pushups), aerobic (running, walking long distances, swimming, various fitness programs), and anaerobic (HIIT, anything high-intensity).

    So diet, anti-diet (fasting), and movement are the main keys.

    Reduction of stress is also useful indeed. Exercise, meditation, vitamin C (suppresses cortisol), phosphatidylserine (suppresses cortisol and increases brain function), avoiding stimulants like coffee (reduce dose and/or combine with L-theanine), are some stress-reducing tools. If you have emotion-based low impulse control, have some non-sugar sweets on hand, and quit stimulants (including caffeine and nicotine) and especially GABAergics (alcohol, benzos, etc).

    To the nay-sayers/officialists... you can come up with any number of excuses (yes estrogen makes women gain weight in cycles, government-approved "science" says otherwise, etc), but I guarantee you these are the primary factors: by addressing them you'll lose weight as a byproduct/side-effect of becoming healthy by means of eating a more natural diet. The only things you're likely to be missing then are magnesium, vitamin D3 (supplement in winter), vitamin K2 (the older you are the more likely you'll be deficient), maybe vitamin C, and omega-3 if you don't eat fish or supplement.

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  • Sun, Jan 10, 2021 - 10:24am

    #36

    Adam Taggart

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    4

    There's Room For Many Variants

    A reminder that in the original post above, I say both:

    What I’m not saying is that this is the only diet for losing weight effectively. Or the best one. There are a number of other plans that are worth consideration. But I know for sure this one works, which gives me the confidence to share it with you.

    and

    This focus on meat does not mean that vegetarianism and veganism are to be eschewed. There is much evidence for the benefits of plant-based diets — though those on them do need to pay more attention to ensuring they consume enough protein during the day for healthy body function.

    The key success elements are to avoid nutrient-poor foods that generate an insulin response and/or create inflammation, to eat sensible quantities, and to structure routines and community that will help you stick to your plan.

    You can successfully achieve these whether on on a paleo/primal diet or a vegan one. (One of my daughters is vegan)

    So rather than rat-holing on whose approach is the "One True Diet", for someone looking to lose weight and embrace better health, pick any program that:

    • avoids sugars and processed carbs
    • limits diary and alcohol
    • focuses on fresh, whole foods
    • is based heavily on local, organic vegetables
    • IF it includes meats: focuses on grass-fed/wild-caught/pasture-raised options

    Any program that abides by those will result in the shedding of excess weight for someone switching over from the Standard American Diet (SAD).

    So if the Mediterranean diet appeals to you? Go for it.

    Same for the DASH, Flexitarian or Weight Watchers or Noom, or whatever -- just make sure it abides by the rules above.

    When it comes to improving societal health, I'm in the "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good" camp.

    I don't really care which path people take towards becoming more resilient, just as long as they get there. Whatever approach gets them building positive momentum in the right direction is fine with me.

     

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  • Sun, Jan 10, 2021 - 10:44am

    Adam Taggart

    Status: Platinum Member

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    7

    People respond to stories, not data

    I use the before and after photos because humans respond to stories far better than they do data. (I've had that lesson reinforced to me countless times over the past decade of running this site...)

    They make a topic like weight loss instantly relatable and provide a "Well, if he can do it, maybe I can, too" inspiration that words alone can't.

    So, sorry if they rub you the wrong way. But they're the most effective arrow in my quiver on this topic.

    And if you're asking for a more recent photo because you're doubting the sustainability of the approach I've laid about above, here's a video from last week of me deadlifting over 300lbs. Judge for yourself:

    To your comments about a more plant-based diet, I say: I agree, if that what appeals to you

    Personally, I'm more plant-based myself these days. I use meat more of a 'seasoning' than a main dish now.

    And yes: locally source as much of your plate as you're able. The more the better.

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  • Sun, Jan 10, 2021 - 11:08am

    #38
    VTGothic

    VTGothic

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    5

    Also Paleo (more or less)

    For what it's worth, and that's not much at this point in the thread, I'll throw my 2 cents in on the side of the Paleo Dieters. I'm not on a strictly paleo diet, but Adam's regimen and experience is pretty close to my own. Unfortunately, I didn't adopt it until I was 58, but the last 9 years have been phenomenal. Within a week I had recovered my declining mental condition, and my joint aches and pains were gone (my hip bad enough I thought I'd need a new one; my finger joints starting that arthritic ache). Within another week my emotional lability was gone and I was left with an upbeat even-temperedness and a restored sense of humor, along with noticeably better energy and overall vitality. Last year, 8 years into this way of eating, I started seeing shades of green and red that have been denied me because of congenital colorblindness. (Yes, I know: that doesn't happen, but I have had to ask my wife to name colors for me that I hadn't seen before.) And where I'd been highly protective of my glasses since age 12, now I keep forgetting where I've torn them off and laid them down because they don't focus right, and often go days without needing to find them. (Yes, new eye test coming up, eventually; since I don't often need them I don't really care.)

    I have a few guidelines, extracted from "Deep Nutrition: Why your genes need traditional foods." First, two Don'ts:

    1 - No oils other than low-temp processed organic coconut, butter, olive oil, homemade lard.

    2 - No refined sugars. For a long time, I ate no sugar at all, now I use occasional local organic maple sugar, or Ecuadorian "Just Panella," which is a whole sugar not nearly as sweet as any other. Still, a very little goes a very long way. This also includes grains and starchy vegetables, which convert to glucose. (In Vermont winters we eat more root starches: our own squashes and potatoes, and some local sweet potatoes: they all usually go into crockpot dishes.)

    Plus 4 Do's

    1 - Eat organic, field-raised meat, cooked on the bone, at low temp, with its fat, in liquid. So, mostly crockpot style, although we do smoke and also oven-bake at lower temps. I do use a lot of spices and herbs, and cook very traditional meals garnered from traditional and peasant societies across the globe. Also eggs: we produce our own from heritage breed birds.

    2 - Eat offal. I'm not so good here; mostly I include the organs in the bone broths I make (beef, chicken, lamb). All from field raised, organic animals either grown here or sourced very locally, whole or half animal bought at a time.

    3 - Eat vegetables fresh and raw. Organic, heritage breed; mostly grown myself, often eaten right out of the field.

    4 - Eat fermented foods. We make our own kimchi and kefir. Homegrown or local organic veggies; raw local, organic field raised milk. Until Covid we could get A2-A2 milk at the nearby farmers market, but the dairy is just too far away to justify the smaller quantities we use to make the drive, so we're using A1-A1 until the farmers market reopens. These ferments also help with the gut biome issue, as does food grown in rich organic soil, and not necessarily washed before eating - since we like snacking while in the garden.

    BTW: Oats are not a grain (as some here have categorized it), but a cereal. Unlike grains, oats don't promote an acidic internal environment, so they're a better option to minimize inflammation and avoid setting up ideal pathogenic acidic environment. Ditto barley. Buckwheat is a pseudo-cereal, having a lot of cereal like properties. They're all better options when one just wants some "grain." Barley cooks up just like rice; we enjoy it on occasion in winter with a beef stew or soup. Quinoa is another nice option, though not my favorite.

    We make sure we get plenty of Omega-3 fatty acids by drinking our morning coffee with a tablespoon of healthy butter and 1-2 tablespoons coconut oil stirred in. (Blend it in for a latte-like effect.) That's also when we have a couple ounces of our homemade Kefir and a couple tablespoons of our homemade Kimchi. We eat no other breakfast. Mid- to late-morning we eat our main meal of the day. Sometimes that's it for the day, other times one or both of us will want a small helping of something in the late afternoon. Often more main meal; sometimes a handful of nuts or seeds, or some vegetables. We don't eat from evening till morning about 15-18 hours. We sleep 4-6 hours.

    Interestingly, we find that when we're more active in summer we eat less than in sedentary winter, and usually later, and we sleep less.

    I've lost 35 pounds; I'm at my high school graduation weight again. Still bald, though...

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  • Sun, Jan 10, 2021 - 11:22am

    #39
    VTGothic

    VTGothic

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    4

    About that gathering more than hunting...

    ...may I just point out that gathering food included insects. There's a lot of protein in them grubs!

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  • Sun, Jan 10, 2021 - 12:46pm

    #40
    Kat43

    Kat43

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    Joined: Feb 10 2020

    Posts: 101

    1

    Wrong focus

    "Weight Loss is All About Nutrition"

    No, it's not.  Weight loss is about proper hormone management, and that primarily comes from observing circadian rhythm, natural light, and avoiding unnatural light (nnEMF).  Because we are bioelectric beings and different wavelengths of light at different times of day control healthy hormone functions.  I follow Jack Kruse and Leland Stillman for this kind of information. Biophysics trumps biochemistry.

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  • Sun, Jan 10, 2021 - 12:49pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Posts: 1198

    0

    Grain or Cereal

    Calling oats one definitely one or the other is kinda splitting hairs. But that is what we like to do round these parts.

    https://www.askdifference.com/cereal-vs-grain/#:~:text=The%20main%20difference%20between%20Cereal,may%20be%20ground%20into%20flour.&text=The%20word%20cereal%20is%20derived,goddess%20of%20harvest%20and%20agriculture.

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  • Sun, Jan 10, 2021 - 1:18pm

    MarkM

    MarkM

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    Joined: Jul 22 2008

    Posts: 469

    3

    Wrong focus

    Weight loss is about proper hormone management, and that primarily comes from observing circadian rhythm, natural light, and avoiding unnatural light (nnEMF).

    No, it's not. It's all about gut biome.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5082693/

    See how easy this stuff is.  🙂

    Actually, who really knows. Probably a little of all of the above. However, I think as time goes by we will come to appreciate the gut biome and the importance of it's role.

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  • Sun, Jan 10, 2021 - 1:20pm

    MKI

    MKI

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jan 12 2009

    Posts: 321

    4

    Photos/stories & MODERN Inuits have terrible overall health

    A plug for photos and sample size of 1: I only fixed my diet by reading a guy who was ripped and wondering how he could have done that. It's not just humans love stories, it's that nutrition is so complex you have to see empirical results to really trust anything.

    Inuits have terrible overall health and a shortened lifespan.

    Not true for original diets. Read Price, he spent a lot of time with them, and warned them "Not to eat at the white man's store". They were some of the healthiest people on earth in one of the harshest climes man has ever lived in. But modern Inuits are some of the mos unhealthy people on earth, since they can't handle carbs and sugar well (not to mention booze).

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  • Sun, Jan 10, 2021 - 1:32pm

    brushhog

    brushhog

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    Gathering also includes mostly greens

    ...roots, berries, nuts etc. Its not all about protein. I'd bet the average hunter gatherer consumed about 80% of his diet from vegetables. Meat was wild game, brought down through great exertion...and you didnt get it everyday.  You may have gone weeks without a piece of meat, and seasonal periods of starvation were the norm.

    I remember reading about the lives of the Iroquois Indians that dominated the cold northeastern forests. Unlike the Algonquins, they did little farming and put less food up during winter. They literally starved for long stretches.

    It has been demonstrated that people who starve or have starved for long periods, ironically, end up having very clean, clear arteries late in life even if its been many years since the starvation. Check the the dutch, who staved with food shorages during WW2, that generation was incredibly long lived and had very little heart disease later in life.

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  • Sun, Jan 10, 2021 - 3:36pm

    Susan7

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    Spot-on health advice

    I hope no one thought I was making excuses when I mentioned hormonal differences in weight loss. I do think post menopausal women have a harder time losing weight but that’s not offered as any sort of excuse. I’ve been pleasantly surprised to see how many PPers have adopted such healthy eating habits which are very similar to my own research and efforts. The breadth of nutritional knowledge here is amazing! I think we have each found our way to this knowledge by being willing to question the “wisdom” of the (industry-sponsored) nutritional experts. It’s hard to do that for some though. I still have friends who are deathly afraid of saturated fats like butter because of the life-long programming. I’m hoping the next breakthrough will be the abandonment of the cholesterol hypothesis. But statins are the most widely prescribed drug in the US so I’m not holding my breath.

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  • Sun, Jan 10, 2021 - 4:13pm

    HiFiber

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    HiFiber said:

    Hey thanks for the reply Adam.    Much Love and Respect for you.  I realize now that some of my comments were coming from a mean and angry place and I wish to apologize for this.   Seeing that image of the pyramid with animals at the base triggered something deep down in me.   Thoughts of oppression and slavery instantly come to mind, not just for them but for we who do not rule the world.  We still have the freedom to cultivate our gut biomes.  Why not aspire to learn how to do this in the most peaceful way possible?  Very curious to read you say, "Personally, I'm more plant-based myself these days. I use meat more of a 'seasoning' than a main dish now." That deserves another post.  Thanks for inspirational video!

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  • Sun, Jan 10, 2021 - 8:39pm

    MKI

    MKI

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    Posts: 321

    1

    Hormonal differences in weight loss

    I do think post menopausal women have a harder time losing weight

    I think everyone agrees with this! It's well known medically, plus would be surprising if untrue anyway.

    But statins are the most widely prescribed drug in the US so I’m not holding my breath.

    Hesitate to go here, but oral contraceptives are also a very common prescription in the U.S. and a massive challenge many women have that men simply don't: trying to keep a natural hormonal balance while on drugs that deliberately mess with said cycle (many women use NFP rather than drugs for this). BTW, lack of menstrual cramps is just another surprising effect of a high-nutrient diet we've seen - DDs were truly puzzled their friends talking about menstrual pains since they've never had any. Diet is magic.

    One more (taboo) gender dietary subject: statistically women love breads, sweets, and fruit more than men (sure true in our house as well) which is a challenge for women who like to bake. And of course, the stereotype for men is to eat meat, so this whole dietary change to fat and protein seems easier for men, at least in my circle.

    And a final issue: men are often encouraged to lift weights, while women to run. But in our family women have benefited even more from lifting weights than the men (true for diet as well), if that's possible (esp squats & deadlift). Again, not a big sample size, but it's just another thing that women are not encouraged to do yet seem to benefit at least as much or even more. Again, caveat of small sample size.

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  • Mon, Jan 11, 2021 - 1:38am

    #48

    gyrogearloose

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Sep 08 2008

    Posts: 362

    2

    It works...

    My wife and I moved to low carb.

    One day a couple of months later we did a town run. took longer than expected.

    We were on the way home at 3pm, having headed out 8am, and my wife asked if I was hungry.

    We had not eaten since breakfast, but I was not hungry.... my wife commented the same.

    Lack of the usual starving feel was quite noticeable.

    Slipped back into eating carbs over Christmas as other family still on them....pants got tight. fast!

    Cheers Hamish

     

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  • Mon, Jan 11, 2021 - 7:06am

    #49

    dcm

    Status: Bronze Member

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    Posts: 134

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    Cavemen being Cavemen

    I wonder if some crafty cavemen pushed The Proterozoic Diet  “Here suck on some algae - you’ll feel better and besides way back, we used to do that”   There are a number of good Ted talks like Christina Warinner’s that shed some led light on the good ole caveman fire. She also speaks to an issue we’ve raised before. According to archeological record, You can not compare what the paleo chewed caught sucked or drank with any of the “modern” sexy diets pushed as paleo. They simply had little to no access to many of these things. As Christina also points out ( and it’s common sense) there was no one paleo diet- it varied dramatically by the locals their terrain their plants and many many factors. Years back, there was a very similar discussion on this site when Adam posted on a Paleo Expert.  I suggest you take a look  Like Adam, another theme often said  is that you’ll have a hard time getting  “your protein” Like Christina often said in her Ted talk, there’s no real scientific or archeological basis for that. There is plenty of protein in a variety plant diet and B12 comes out of natural soils fed by a diverse natural world  As others have wisely said, the key is fresh non GMO food and a wide variety of food. They say some primates can recognize and eat well over a hundred edibles in the wild...I wonder why

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  • Mon, Jan 11, 2021 - 10:19am

    Susan7

    Susan7

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    Susan7 said:

    I discovered lifting late in life and can’t recommend it enough for other women. Running and cycling have their place but the benefits of lifting go far beyond cardio health. I think a lot of women avoid it past the 5lb dumbbell thing because they’re afraid they’ll bulk up like a man, and that’s not a look most of us want. It generally doesn’t happen. Plus, there is nothing so satisfying as a well-executed clean and jerk. It feels so good!

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  • Mon, Jan 11, 2021 - 11:01am

    #51
    Spacecat

    Spacecat

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    Spacecat said:

    Here is something I found useful to get started.

    Most of the crap that used to slip into my daily diet was in the evening. You know that time you might sit down to relax, watch a movie, read a book or surf the net - it’s the danger zone.

    So I made a simple change to my daily routine by taking a shower and flossing and brushing my teeth half an hour after dinner. Having brushed my teeth it mentally signals the end of eating for the day and it has personally worked out very well for me.

    I’ll also repeat meat as a seasoning. If you use less you can afford better quality. I used to live in rural Japan and was often invited to old folks houses to eat. One thing I observed was that while meat was offered and plentiful the older 75+ generation ate very little, instead sticking to a bit of sashimi and an abundance of homegrown vegetables (most of the front yards where I lived were given over to some kind of vegetables and random bags of it would appear on my door through the year). Those old people were the most lively, happy and healthiest I think I have seen anywhere. I once bore witness to an 83 year old woman hurdle a peddle bike lying by the side of a rice field!

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  • Mon, Jan 11, 2021 - 2:17pm

    brushhog

    brushhog

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    Posts: 141

    5

    That sounds to me like the ideal diet

    The Japanese, particularly the Okinawans, have got it right. Mostly home grown vegetables, small quantities of meat, a little grain, no dairy.

    Not saying there arent other ways of eating healthy, but to me that is the ideal.

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  • Mon, Jan 11, 2021 - 2:34pm

    #53
    Chicken2105

    Chicken2105

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    2

    Nutritional requirements for animals

    Animal scientists review current literature every 10 years or so and if warranted will alter recommendations for sheep ,beef cattle etc. It seems to be almost impossible to do this for humans.I could offer many possible explanations such as politics ,diet has become a religion,difficulties in experimental design etc.etc.
    If  it seems to work for you and your blood work doesn’t become too extreme it is probably OK.

    Adam,

    Please don’t take offense but I still think you put your head on Arnold ‘s  body.

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  • Mon, Jan 11, 2021 - 6:44pm

    #54

    gyrogearloose

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Sep 08 2008

    Posts: 362

    2

    Adendum to

    I had been aware of the low carb diet for some years courtisy of Karl Denninger( Market-Ticker) but my wife was reluctant to switch

    Untill the day her mum tested her blood sugar ( she had been put on pills for type 2 diabetes  and had a tester )

    She scored 22 ( The Mayo Clinic recommends emergency room treatment above 16.7 )

    She decided to go low carb......

    Result:- 3 monhts later she always stayed below 8 while following the diet, and could have a high carb desert and stay below 10.  ( she tells me she does it to check her insulin response.... 😉  )

    No drugs at all needed.

     

    Cheers Hamish

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  • Tue, Jan 12, 2021 - 10:28am

    #55
    ao

    ao

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    Joined: Feb 04 2009

    Posts: 1442

    6

    i followed a paleo type diet for years but no more

    It failed me at age 67. 

    Want to lose weight?

    Get cancer, lol.  

    So I don't necessarily look at weight loss as a desired goal for health (unless one is noticeably overweight) nor is weight necessarily an indicator of health.  In my life, I've been as light as 180 (at 6'2") when I was into serious distance running to as heavy as 232 when I was not fat but packing a lot of muscle from heavy weight training.  I felt good, in different ways, at both weights.

    My weight in recent years has been 220-225 but with dietary measures designed to address cancer, I've dropped to 200-205 and have stabilized there.

    Want motivation for eating healthy?  Forget about weight loss.  Get cancer.  It teaches you a lot physically, mentally, and spiritually.

    I've studied and instructed in various aspects of human movement, exercise, and nutrition for 45 years at the undergraduate, graduate, and postgraduate levels so it's interesting to read all the comments above.  There's a lot of excellent information for the most part but a few things that are not quite on the mark. 

    The past few days, I've had a few posts deleted and I don't know why.  Maybe I posted too many.  So I'm reluctant to go through the effort of constructing a detailed analysis, discussion, and organization of the above subject only to have it deleted.

    Nutrition, despite being a science, is also a lot like politics, religion, music, investing, etc.  There are lots of viewpoints that bring people to success and, in many (but not all) cases, there isn't necessarily single correct approach.  But there are certain principles which hold true under any and all circumstances, many of which have been covered here such as the importance purity and health of food sources, avoidance of overeating, and the value of fasting, to name a few.    

    I do notice though that a lot of the posts are more snapshots rather than panoramic pictures and a well organized, unifying approach seems to be lacking.  Two of the overarching aspects of eating that seem to be lacking here are (1) intentionality and (2) consciousness.  They provide explanations for many of the successes (and, conversely, failures) of a diversity of diets.  Also, the consideration of stages of the life cycle as well as whether eating is for growth, maintenance, detoxification, healing, recovery, or some other particular reason.

    As for me, I'm still working on tweaking my present diet for healing from cancer but I'm convinced of the advantages of an almost exclusively plant based diet.  Please note that I ate healthier than 99% of people for most of my life and essentially followed a paleo diet in the latter half of my life.  Unfortunately, that strategy failed me.  So I began seriously reconsidering and researching other options, trying to remove as much of the prejudice and pre-conceived notions that I held.  The result: the science in favor of a plant based diet is absolutely undeniable.  

    Here's some food for thought in the fascinating documentary, The Game Changers, not only for health in general but also for optimizing human athletic performance.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSpglxHTJVM

    I know from personal experience that bench pressing strength, dead lifting strength, 1 mile running speed, etc. are not necessarily indicators of health nor do those parameters necessarily translate into optimal health and function.  Also, appearance has significance but what is going on internally is more important than what is visible externally.  My PSA has steadily dropped month-by-month from 626 to 197 to 1.08 to 0.72 with my latest blood work last week, pain is gone, bowel and urinary function are improved (along with minimal odor to bowel movements), sleep quality is improved, energy and stamina are up, skin is cleaner and clearer, the need for deodorant is gone, etc.  I'm still on a medication but planned radiation therapy has been cancelled for the time being.  Ultimately, it is up to God but, as stated by Elder Pasios, "We should try to do everything possible so that God does everything impossible."

    Here is some added scientific evidence in favor of a plant based diet:

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/2115127-ancient-leftovers-show-the-real-paleo-diet-was-a-veggie-feast/

     

     

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  • Tue, Jan 12, 2021 - 11:31am

    #56
    Base12

    Base12

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    Joined: Apr 02 2020

    Posts: 41

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    Nutrient Dense

    Luckily I never had to lose weight because I found Mark Sisson's website when I was around 30.  It's kept me in great shape since.   Some of the Success stories he posts are amazing.

    First, and most importantly, if you have kids, give them the tools to succeed (health wise) later in life.  The body type you are in your teens will tend to stick with you into adulthood.  Lean and athletic in your teens is much easier to work with than if you start off obese, or "skinny fat", with little muscle tone.

    Other Notes:

    • I find most people arguing against this approach think it is all about eating meat.   It's not.  Vegetables are just as, if not more, important.  If there is one phrase you remember is should be "nutrient dense".  Eat nutrient dense foods and it will help you become the optimum version of yourself.
    • Weston A. Price was light years ahead of his time.  Greatest point he made was that eating whole grain isn't enough.  You have to change the chemical makeup of a grain (sprouting, fermenting, etc.) if you want to make it the foundation of your diet.
    •  I lived in a place with a large vegetarian population.  The soft, frail, pale, weak body type was easy to spot when walking through town.  There are also vegetarian body builders though.  Lesson being that plant based diets are not something you should casually take on.  It has to be strictly regulated and even supplemented if you want to thrive.

     

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  • Tue, Jan 12, 2021 - 11:42am

    Mots

    Mots

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    Posts: 339

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    "Mostly home grown vegetables, small quantities of meat, a little grain, no dairy."

    Brushhog

    I think you nailed it.

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  • Tue, Jan 12, 2021 - 12:07pm

    #58
    Mots

    Mots

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    Posts: 339

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    Ao's vegetarianism and VTGothics Insectavorism

    Ao, you are absolutely right.  I  studied (and taught) biochemistry for thousands of hours, focusing on absorption/transport/metabolism of amino acids, peptides, fatty acids, minerals, carbohydrates, and "vitamins" by the human body.  It is extremely black/white clear that our bodies (considering the body as a machine) have been designed (evolved) for plant and insect based diet.

    The biggest objection to vegetarianism is the lack of Vit B12 in plants.  But we evolved while eating lots of shi# and particularly, lots of insects.  Other basic undeniable evidence is the adjustment to dietary ascorbic acid and detailed evidence of specific characteristics of enzyme systems that are finely tuned for lysine scarcity, polyunsaturated fat (vs saturated fat) abundance due to high plant low mammal consumption.

    Maybe instead of arguing "animal vs vegetarian!!!" the real issue is high mammal consumption vs low mammal consumption.  Someone somewhere should have written a book that details this biochemical evidence (I would love to find such book).  I wanted to write such book 35 years ago but no one seems interested to discuss or read about the reality about how things work. Talking subjectively is so much more fun.  I am only prompted to toss my 2 cents in, in response to the great comments from AO and VTgothic....

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  • Tue, Jan 12, 2021 - 2:06pm

    #59

    Quercus bicolor

    Status: Silver Member

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    Posts: 497

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    That quote from Michael Pollan ...

    “Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.” comes to mind.  I think that we can agree that our ancestors and modern day people eating traditional diets, for the most part, stick to that.  They ate/eat small amounts of animal products (mammals, fish, birds, reptiles, amphibians plus eggs and possibly dairy), some invertebrates and a whole lot of plant matter.  If you believe Weston Price, agricultural people ate/eat a good amount of legumes and grains, mostly sprouted, fermented or soaked as part of the plant component of their diet.

    Of course, some ate more animal products, but I don't think any ate none (veganism) until modern times.  This diet seems to be a key to good health.  And if we all eat small amounts of animal products from pastured animals, we contribute to ecosystem and soil restoration as well as rebalancing the global carbon cycle.

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  • Tue, Jan 12, 2021 - 6:18pm

    #60
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Posts: 1198

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    The Cajun Diet

    Once there was a Momma frog and a baby frog walking down the road. All of a sudden the baby frog started hopping away. The momma frog said where you going baby? The baby frog said Momma Momma there's a cat coming down the road and he is going to eat us. The momma frog said Oh little baby that cat won't eat you cats don't eat frogs. They went on a little further and the baby frog started hopping away again. The Momma frog said where you going baby? The baby frog said Momma Momma there is a big ol dog comin down the road and he is going to eat us. Momma frog said Oh little baby frog that dog won't hurt you dogs don't ear frogs. So they continued on down the road and all of a sudden the momma frog started hopping like crazy. The baby frog said Momma Momma where are you going . The Momma frog said Baby frog that there is a Cajun. Cajuns eat anything. Hop for your life baby frog

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  • Tue, Jan 12, 2021 - 6:27pm

    #61
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 1198

    1

    Squirrel Brains

    I had a friend in the Atchafalaya I used to visit every year. A few years ago I went to Jazz Festand went over to see him between weekends. While i was in NOLA I read an interview with Dr. John. Any interview with any New Orleans musician (or anybody from NOLA for that matter ) will always include food.The good Dr. said his all time favorite was squirrel brains. I had never heard of squirrel brains being eaten. I had heard of squirrel stew with the eyeballs staring up at you though.

    So I told my friend about it and he got this dreamy look on his face and said in his heavy Cajun accent. " Oh man dem squirrel brains man dem is da best"

    I have been a vegetarian for 50 years and thought I had stumbled into an alien encampment

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  • Tue, Jan 12, 2021 - 6:57pm

    MKI

    MKI

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    Posts: 321

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    Nutrient Dense

    Base, I agree except for one thing: Vegetables are just as, if not more, important. This wasn't true for my family; we simply could not thrive without more protein yet we can get along fine without veg (not that we do - love to eat veg, a treat that tastes like sugar).

    I only bring this up for the random reader who, like me, once believed otherwise (my stomach cannot take legumes/milk to get protein). I experienced exactly what Adam did: a complete health change, but only by cutting back on veg and replacing with tons of meat/fish/eggs. This was shocking, never would have predicted it.

    How can one empirically test their diet? We kept changing until we got:

    1) Waist to height ratio <0.45. It may take literally years of diet changes and experimentation to reach this level that correlates with longevity and health.

    2) Visible 6-pack stomach/strong posture/low BP/low glucose. One is only as old as their arteries and spine.

    3) No cavities/straight white teeth/clear skin/rich hair/good vision.

    4. Never hungry; easily able to go 48 hr without food. This is a solid sign of health.

    5. Run <7 min mile, and Lift (bench/deep squat/deadlift) 1.5X to 3X BW, Pack 50% BW all day.

    6. No injuries. Nutrient dense diets (with proper sleep/exercise) heal old injuries/damage from prior bad grain/fruit/milk diets.

    Most of the above statistically correlate with an active and long life. So why trust anyone spouting off about nutrition unless they can claim all 6 of the above until 65 yo at least? Just experiment until you get there.

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  • Wed, Jan 13, 2021 - 12:23am

    Hohhot

    Hohhot

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    Joined: Mar 12 2020

    Posts: 123

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    Beware prion illnesses

    Currently in the US, there is an epidemic of deer chronic wasting disease. It is a prion disease. The animal literally becomes skeletal, disoriented and dies. Spread by feces on grass, shared water, etc. It is like BSE in cattle for which huge swaths of UK cattle were destroyed.

    Prions are "naked" bits of DNA that when entering the host, multiply and create neurological disease and eventually death. Although infected animals can transmit even in muscle meat, neurological tissue is rife with them. Cooking/heat doesn't destroy them.

    In humans one prion disease is familial insomnia. Strikes around 40yo. Always fatal.

    I'll pass on anything's brains.

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  • Wed, Jan 13, 2021 - 4:58am

    #64

    davefairtex

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    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2293

    0

    juicing

    Ok diet-meisters, I really enjoy this juice I make for myself.  It started out as an anti-oxident blend, but it kind of morphed over time.  Tell me if this is bad:

    Ingredients:

    + apple (3)
    + carrot (6-8)
    + passionfruit (8-10)
    + beetroot (3)
    + ginger (3")
    + turmeric (2")

    This is literally the tastiest juice ever.  My body seems to like about a cup of it at a time, with meals, but no more.  I use a slow juicer.

    If I don't put the ginger, its totally not right.  Adding the turmeric was additive too, although it turned the juicer insides orange.  Passionfruit is required.  I can substitute pomegranate for apple.

    So what do you think?  Instant insulin shock?

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  • Wed, Jan 13, 2021 - 6:19am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 1198

    1

    Juicing

    Hi Dave

    I am not going to say anything about putting BTC in my juice lol

    There is an interesting balance between the glycemic index and how much fructose you may wish to take in. A food my have a low glycemic index yet be high in fructose. You want to limit your fructose intake as much as possible. Reason being fructose blocks the bioavailability of VIT D.

    I use a Norwalk juicer which is recommended by the Gerson Institute. They recommend using tart green apples like Granny Smith as the glycemic index is lower.

    My usual blend is carrot, granny smith and ginger. I sometimes add beet. My wife likes using turmeric root as well.

    I highly recommend the Norwalk but the Pure is just as good. They are expensive initially but pay for themselves if you juice a lot. They produce more juice and higher quality.

    Of course I am sure you are using organic produce.

    If you check out Norman Walker he has a lot of info on juicing and what different combinations are good for treating.

     

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  • Wed, Jan 13, 2021 - 6:57am

    Base12

    Base12

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    No Vegetables?

    MKI,

    Have you gone long time without eating vegetables?  Shackleton's crew came home in excellent health after eating nothing but meat for months, but traditional Inuit ate some plants and non muscle meat parts of animals to get certain key nutrients.

    The reason I said vegetables were as or more important is that I got curious a few years ago and tracked where my vitamins and minerals came from.  Even though plants made up a smaller portion of my diet calorie wise, they were actually the source of most of the vitamins I consumed.  Minerals and calories primarily came from meat, fish, eggs, and dairy.

     

     

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  • Wed, Jan 13, 2021 - 7:54am

    MKI

    MKI

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    No Vegetables?

    We find veg critical for the gut and micro biome. I'm not dissing veg at all to us they taste like sweet like candy. We just found protein to be more important and the key to fixing health and getting the good metrics, YMMV. <0.45 w/h year is tough.

    So what do you think? Instant insulin shock?

    Dave I really wish I could drink that tasty drink. But we don't eat fruits at all except home-picked crabapples that we save for desserts. Everything else is just too much sugar; I'm envious of those who can eat regular fruit and keep the 0.45 w/h metric & six pack (I've never met anyone in the flesh who can though). Our motto: fruit is candy and treat it as such.

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  • Wed, Jan 13, 2021 - 8:11am

    ao

    ao

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    MKI, you forgot some things on your list

    Like able to leap tall buildings at a single bound or launch fireballs from your eyes and lightning bolts from your arse, lol.

    But seriously, where did you get this list?  Some things are valid, some things do not account for age or genetics or early environment, and some things are a bit out in left field.  I did graduate work for a while in a U.S. military physiological testing facility so I'm curious about your source material.

     

     

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  • Wed, Jan 13, 2021 - 8:18am

    LesPhelps

    Status: Silver Member

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    Antioxidants in Plant vs Animal Food sources

    Antioxidants

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2841576/

    Mean antioxidants in plants = 11.57, vs 0.18 in animal based foods.

    Same goes for nutrients, flavonoids...

    All nutrients come from plants.  Getting nutrients indirectly by eating animals is more than somewhat suboptimal.

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  • Wed, Jan 13, 2021 - 8:20am

    Tomh24

    Tomh24

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    Tomh24 said:

    Need a good quality Tee shirt I can were to the GYM. something 100% polyester.

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  • Wed, Jan 13, 2021 - 8:22am

    ao

    ao

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    MKI, the Gracie clan would disagree with you about the fruit

    https://www.graciemag.com/en/2015/11/24/7-facts-you-need-to-know-before-you-adopt-the-gracie-diet/

    It's hard to imagine folks who are more functionally fit than the members of the Gracie jui-jitsu clan.

    Also, our closest members of the primate family would disagree with you about the fruit as well.

    Disclaimer: I'm not advocating the Gracie Diet as the optimal diet but just as an illustration that there are many roads to Rome.

    But if your diet works for you, I'd stay with it and congratulations on your success.  I would say though that if someone in your family is squatting or deadlifting 3x body weight at a more advanced age, they need to enter the Olympics.  They would win, hands down, lol.

     

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  • Wed, Jan 13, 2021 - 9:12am

    ao

    ao

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    DaveF, it doesn't sound bad

    I don't have a lot of familiarity with passion fruit though.  I know it's supposed to be healthy for you but it's been so long since I've had any, it gets mixed up in my mind with other tropical fruits.  We don't have them in our stores here.  How big are they?  The reason I'm asking is, the mix sounds a bit heavy on the fruit.  I did look up passion fruit in a couple of juicing books that I picked up for next to nothing through my wife's thrift store job called "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Juicing" and "Power Juices" but they didn't have much information about it other than to include a small number in a couple of juices.  I'm not necessarily recommending these books but when you get them for 50 cents each through a job credit system so they essentially cost you nothing, what the heck.

    The Hallelujah Diet folks have a saying, "Eat your fruit, juice your veggies".  Of course, they may juice some fruits and most definitely eat tons of veggies in non-juice form but the emphasis is much more on vegetable juices than fruit juice.  I would go along with Mohammed on recommending N.W. Walker's book, Raw Vegetable Juices.  It's old school and dated by many people's standards but it's a classic and remains the "bible" on vegetable juicing and his studies and empirical observations are valuable.  Vegetable juices are generally more valuable in healing and conferring health than fruit juices.  As others have noted here, fruit is high in sugar (especially certain kinds of fruit) and too much is not good.  As I always say, BALANCE is all things.

    I switch around with my juices but have been consuming vegetable juice mixes almost exclusively.  It keeps me from overdoing the fruit.  The foundation is about 2/3rds carrot juice (which contains a particular acid, the name of which I can't find now, which is anti-carcinogenic ... maybe someone can help me here) and 1/3rd celery juice (which gives the body alkalinity and was recommended by Edgar Cayce).  My favorite at the moment is this combination of carrot and celery juice with a small amount of beet root and cucumber.  It just supercharges my energy level and it's a lasting energy, surprisingly enough.  

    My juicer (an old Champion, with an electric motor built like a battleship) doesn't like greens.  As a result, I have to chop them up to use them so I probably don't use them as much as I should.  Today, I'll be trying a carrot and spinach juice mix but I've used kale, Swiss chard, beet greens, turnip greens, mustard greens, etc.

    The turmeric and ginger sound good.  I'm not a fan of ginger myself (although it's very healthy for you) but I hadn't thought of using it in my juice.  Maybe I'll give it a try.

    This is what I love about this site.  We can all learn from one another.

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  • Wed, Jan 13, 2021 - 9:37am

    #73

    davefairtex

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    passion fruit

    Passion fruit is quite tart.   Eating passion fruit on its own is...challenging since it is so sour - unless you like sour things.  It is like a lemon, but more complexity.  As a foodie, I like it because it provides good acid for the juice mix.  Hmm.  It does have lots of different vitamins in it.  Who knew?

    Picture and details in the link below:

    https://www.nutrition-and-you.com/passion-fruit.html

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  • Wed, Jan 13, 2021 - 9:49am

    #74
    ao

    ao

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    Dave F, an addendum on passion fruit and fruit in general

    I checked, "Celebrating 90 Plus Years of Healthy Living" by Jack LaLanne, another thrift shop book find, lol.  He gives high marks to passion fruit with a lot of very positive information on nutrient content including beta carotene (precursor to vitaminA), vitamin C, potassium, magnesium, and fiber.  The juice equivalent is 4 fruits equals 1/4 cup of juice.  There's even a little protein with 5 gm. of protein/cup of juice.

    In my book, Jack LaLanne and Helio Gracie were the studliest of the studly.  They were both human performance specimens, both lived to a ripe old age (96 and 95, respectively), both were highly functional up to just before they died (often surpassing those decades younger in their performance), and both consumed fruit. 

    Whether you are going with a Biblical/creationist/Garden of Eden scenario or an evolutionary scenario, fruit seems something we were designed to eat.  With regards to fructose, there are problems with it, certainly, but that's with such things as high fructose corn syrup which is purified fructose consumed without all the associated fiber, minerals, vitamins, phytonutrients, etc. that we would find in normal fruit.  There is a huge difference between the two.  If there's one thing I've learned with regards to health, it's that it's very hard to trump Mother Nature.   

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  • Wed, Jan 13, 2021 - 9:54am

    #75
    Bobo

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    There is no perfect diet for everyone.

    I guess I'll start an outrage on this forum but here are my 2c.
    Let's start will the title "How to lose weight"  No one wants to lose weight, only sick people lose weight. No one wants to lose muscle mass or bone density, what one wants to lose is fat...abdominal fat and fat around organs (aka fatty liver/pancreas)
    I started my journey to discover optimal diet for myself 12 yeas ago because of health issues. Strange autoimmune markers, blood work total mess and in general I didn't feel good at all. I think we all feel when something isn't right. I visit multiple doctors and specialists and every single one had a different opinion, and I mean opinion! I tried different medication treatments, I worked with nutritionists and used magical plants and herbs picked up by virgins on a full moon from the highest mountain in the world and nothing helped...actually made it worse. Around that time I was following Chris Martenson on www.chrismartenson.com back then 🙂 and one thing he was saying "Trust yourself" made me rethink my approach so I took the matter in my hands. So I started educating myself on nutrition and diet science. I was kinda shocked to find out that there is no much real science (golden standard) out there, there is millions of opinions/assumption/hypotheses and it kinda makes sense because to have a controlled study on something like this one has to enforce a diet on 3 different groups for 70 years and that ain't happening for many reasons. So... I started experimenting on myself 🙂 I jumped into the vegan/vegetarian world for 6 months. Not gonna go into details because someone will tell me I did wrong but the end result was a disaster! I felt weak, tired and hungry all the time, my blood work markers were "scary" according to my GP. Needless to say I went back to the drawing board. I looked it from evolutionary perspective and was having hard time picturing a vegan with a blender walking around the woods 5000 years ago so I did the unthinkable, what if I do exactly opposite of mainstream opinions?
    well...I did, removed all veggies/grains/fruits/sugars from my diet 6 years ago. Family and friends were in shock and expecting me to kill over and die from heart attack in 3 months because when you remove all of the above things from the diet what you left with is meat/eggs/fish/dairy worst of the worst right 🙂  not in my case. With every month I was feeling better and better, I was able to push myself harder and harder, the transformation was almost a miracle! Where I'm 6 years latter, well...my doctor says he wishes he has my blood results. My CAC (coronary calcium scan) is 0. I don't exercise at all or do yoga, I hike in the woods every weekend (8-12 miles) and do enjoy manual labor in the garden or fixing cars. I eat once a day most of the time and I'm never hungry, I can easily fast 48 hours but don't do this anymore. I don't take any supplements! I have energy all the time and I haven't been sick for the last 6 years, not once!! My weight has been the same for the last 5 years.
    With all that said, this is only my story, this isn't advice of what you should do. Everyone has a different microbiome, we know more about Jupiter than microbiome. Many people think that if you put something in mouth you can absorb it (bioavailability) That's not the case, at least for me.

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  • Wed, Jan 13, 2021 - 10:10am

    #76

    davefairtex

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    juicing veggies

    Ok, it sounds like maybe increasing the veggie balance a tad is probably the right thing to do.  More carrots and beets.  And (MM) yes I agree with granny smith.  Those are my choice if they are available.  I forget where I got this basic juice from (carrot-apple-ginger) but that's a pretty good base.  But ginger is required to get the food-feel right.

    I have to say - passion fruit is literally the best thing ever.  I mix it in with my oatmeal when I cook it - maybe 3-4 fruit in a big batch, the seeds add a bit of crunch, along with some coconut palm sugar and butter.  Best breakfast ever.  Cream on top too.  I'm sure the seeds are good in some way also.

    That's another COVID find for me.  It turns out Artemisia Annua leaves (DLA tablets) cures malaria more rapidly and more completely than the single-isolate Artemisinin, to which the little malaria bugs can develop resistance.   But the WHO doesn't want anyone to use DLA for malaria.  Hmm, I wonder why that is?  [WHO has been running the evil Pharma game in Africa for - a very long time, I suspect]

    So in that vein, getting the vitamins from food is probably tons better than from a pill, due to some who-knows-what effect that ends up doing better in surprising and incompletely-defined ways.  Flavonoids.  Or whatever they're called.

    So more veggies, and passion is good stuff, but maybe pull back a bit.  Thanks guys.

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  • Wed, Jan 13, 2021 - 10:26am

    #77
    nordicjack

    nordicjack

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    juicing

    I was big on juicing.  But it does seem to get expensive , as if I am juicing, I use organic.   My go to was Carrot, Apple, Beet, Ginger, and some italian parsley or cilantro.   I can feel an immediate increase in alertness and energy after juicing.  ( eating the same , did not seem to have the same effect )

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  • Wed, Jan 13, 2021 - 10:41am

    #78
    nordicjack

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    Re: no perfect diet for everyone

    I have a background in nutrition.  I actually have some theories about diet and even diet I intend on patenting.  Though that is usually a difficult go

    But yes, what works for one does not work for another.  But in some more specific empirical  experience of people I know.   One could easily and freely lose weight with just eliminating one substance from their diet..  It was coke.   They could lose 15lbs in two months and then the would start drinking again..after gain again, rinse and repeat.   Another person, had a sweet tooth and good appetite for chocolate and other snacks.   But even with continued eating or not eating of these items, weight stayed.  However, once reducing and eliminating meat( going vegan ) they saw dramatic weight loss even with continued snacking.   So their may be the one thing in your diet that is your nemesis ..  Fat is generally not the thing to eliminate , and eating egg yokes, and bacon,  does not translate to clogging arteries.   High triglycerides in the blood has nothing to do with fat consumption , only sugar consumption..  There is so much confusion about diet.  A lot of people like the paleo diet.  It will work for a lot - but its not really a pleasant diet.. It can be easier.   Same with a high protein diet , its a lot of work.  I think its easier to find your one enemy, whether it coke or meat, carbs, etc.    But speaking of Carbs, I am in susan powter's camp on those.

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  • Wed, Jan 13, 2021 - 10:55am

    ao

    ao

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    Bobo, interesting post

    Thanks for sharing your information.  You are not alone in experiencing what you experienced.  I was a vegetarian many decades ago and it didn't work out for me then.  Of course, it was a MUCH less healthy vegetarian diet than I am following now.  I just didn't know as much as I do now.  Vegan/vegetarian diets can run the gamut from extremely unhealthy to extremely healthy.  But that dissatisfaction with how I felt was why and how I shifted towards a paleo type diet.  I followed this type of diet for decades and was extremely healthy, strong, energetic, etc. with it ... until recently. 

    Cancer is exceedingly complex so diet may not even be a factor in its causation for me.  We just don't know.  But the more I've studied and learned and the more I've experienced over the years, the more I've realized the enormous role that psychological and spiritual factors play ... BIG!  When you are afflicted with something like this, a reflective person will tend to do a life review and see where they may have gone wrong.  I can look back and see emotional factors that influenced me that were not always the healthiest.  I am working on this area but am still very much a work in progress.  

    I don't think we yet have a good explanation for why some folks like you and MKI respond so well to this type of diet.  I'm sure I would feel good too (and I did) but what would the long term, multi-decade results be?  Truthfully, I really can't say for sure.  There may be different microbiomes, different genetics, or ... different intentionality and different consciousness.  These latter two trump all else (and I alluded to them above) but it's the area we understand the least.  New German Medicine touches on this subject somewhat but it's an area that is extremely difficult to study and control.  Metaphysics, psychics, empaths, medical intuitives, etc. have all provided some insights but it is a very fuzzy area where hard, straight, scientific answers are difficult to obtain.

    And so the search continues for me and I always remain open to changing my mind and actions in light of new and convincing evidence.

    Thanks again for sharing and I wish you well. 

    P.S. I don't necessarily look at juicing as a life long practice but as a short term practice for healing from disease, its benefits are undeniable.

    P.P.S. If you read the references in my post #55, you'll discover that early man was NOT a big meat eater, as commonly believed. The video, The Game Changer, also explains such things as the vitamin B12 conundrum.

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  • Wed, Jan 13, 2021 - 11:58am

    MKI

    MKI

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    where did you get this list

    But seriously, where did you get this list? Some things are valid, some things do not account for age or genetics or early environment, and some things are a bit out in left field. I did graduate work...

    ao, I'm not into arguing, I'm into results and learning from people who get even better results. If you disagree with any specific and desire a open convo about it, specify. I get material from literally thousands of sources for over 30 years, personal experience, family experience, and local guys like Adam. My views are common knowledge, and I am nothing special to hit those 6 points.

    ...if someone in your family is squatting or deadlifting 3x body weight at a more advanced age...

    This is why Adam posts pictures. You are clearly not discussing in good faith, just cherry-picking data to try and argue. I'm not interested in that. I specifically said, 1.5-3X body weight up to 65. And I fully expect to deadlift well beyond 1.5X my body weight (225#) well past 65 yo with ease. That's nothing; watch Adam deadlift (he's no spring chicken). And 150# deadlifters hitting 3x BW (450#) doesn't even get them in the top 20 in a particular USA federation.

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  • Wed, Jan 13, 2021 - 5:35pm

    ao

    ao

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    MKI, you're saying i'm not discussing in good faith

    I don't agree with that but let's get specific.  You said 1.5 to 3x body weight.  That is a huge range, so broad that it is almost meaningless.  That's like saying a 1 mile run time of between 5 minutes to 10 minutes.  One is reasonably fast, the other is a snail's pace.  For the lifting, that's 1 repetition maximum I assume?  And at what body weight? And for what age?  So if you're presenting information in good faith, can YOU be more specific.  I'm not here to argue.  I'm here to get facts. The world's record for deadlifting in the Masters 3 Class (60-69 years old) in the 105 kg. body weight class is 280 kg., which is 2.66X BW so even the world record holder can't reach 3x BW.  So you may want to be more specific about your claims.  Hence the data on a male 65 years of age weighing 105 kg. being able to dead lift 3X body weight doesn't exist because the capability doesn't exist.  That's why I asked you to be more specific.

    Sorry but Adam's dead lift just isn't that impressive to me.  That's not to put Adam down.  He's done a fantastic job and I applaud him for that.  But I'm just being honest here.  It's not an impressive dead lift.  How old is he?  Late 40s I would guess.  Males typically reach peak strength by age 45 and can maintain it through age 60 with proper training and nutrition.  That's the approximate path I followed.  The first time I ever tried a deadlift at age 20 and a body weight of 195, with zero training in it, I lifted 455 lbs.  But I don't think it's a particularly healthy exercise though, long term, for the hips, sacroliac joints, or lumbar spine.  And it doesn't translate well into function.  Ditto with squatting with weights.  I don't care how good your form is.  These lifts will beat up your body over time and the results often aren't evident until about the mid 50s to 60 years of age.  I worked with a number of professional and Olympic athletes in my life so I saw this pattern again and again.  How many have you interacted with personally or are you just going off what you see on YouTube videos?

    You say you get your information from thousands of sources but your link is an instructional video in how to do a squat.  In that video, the person demonstrating doesn't even do a full squat.  His knee flexion angle is about 130 deg. and his heel to buttock distance is over 12 inches.  So I'm left to wonder if he can even perform a full squat.

    Free full range squatting with zero weight for reps is another matter and more closely replicates functional strength.  The great wrestler Gama used that as one of his foundational exercises and built enormous strength through doing thousands of repetitions.  Try doing a few hundred free squats in one set and see how you feel and note the load to your cardiovascular system as well, which is incredible.  You will be puffing like a steam engine and be right at your maximum heart rate.  Try doing dozens of free high speed squats in multiple timed sets in a HIT format and you'll feel muscles in your legs you never knew you had and never felt with squatting with weights because of the functional eccentric loading.

    But here's a very simple functional test.  Can you squat and work in that position for an hour like almost any Okinawan old woman can do?  Here's a shorter duration functional test.  Can you come up from a cross legged sitting position on the floor without using your hands? Other functional tests would be a vertical jump and a broad jump, simple tests that reveal true lower extremity explosiveness and have functional application.  But squatting weight really doesn't tell that much nor is it an indicator of health.

    Regarding bench pressing, so much of it depends upon thoracic depth versus upper limb length.  The highest weight bench press I ever witnessed in person was by a man with a very, very thick thorax and very short arms so the starting position was much more favorable from a leverage position than the average person and the amplitude of motion was much smaller.  But this man could hardly move in terms of agility and was huffing and puffing like he was going to have a heart attack.  Plus, see how good the shoulders are in life time bench pressers when they hit 60 years of age.  I can tell you from clinical experience.  Not very good, regardless of form, diet, etc.  There are particular biomechanical reasons for that which I won't go into here.  An example of a better functional test is how many one arm push-ups can you do, in each hand, from a full stop bottom position with chest touching.  That tells me a lot more about your function.

    So out of those thousands of sources, can you tell me the best source that shows powerlifting (i.e. bench press, squat, dead lift) capability is an indication of health?  I'm particularly interested in how such capability corresponds with blood inflammatory markers, resting heart rate, and heart rate recovery times, a few pretty important things you didn't even mention.  

    I await your answers and then we can go to some of the other things you posted.

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  • Wed, Jan 13, 2021 - 8:33pm

    Base12

    Base12

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    I read your links

    The first article was a Homo erectus site in Israel.  The second spends almost the entire article going over what other species of primates eat.  Every paleo / primal diet I've heard of is trying to mimic what ancestral HUMANS ate for the 200,000 odd years after our species evolved and before they developed agriculture.

    The third is a theory.  The make a  prediction but don't test it.  I'll just quote the last  sentence from their abstract...

    Although uncertainties remain regarding the antiquity of cooking and the origins of salivary amylase gene copy number variation, the hypothesis we present makes a testable prediction that these events are correlated.

     

    If the science is undeniable surely you can find better examples than this.

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  • Wed, Jan 13, 2021 - 9:17pm

    ao

    ao

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    Base 12, did you watch the entire video?

    Did you listen to Dean Ornish and read his books?

    How about Neal Barnard?

    How about Joel Fuhrman?

    Did you read The China Study?

    So you think Homo erectus was primarily a vegetarian and then switched to being primarily a meat eater when it evolved to Homo sapiens?  

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  • Thu, Jan 14, 2021 - 4:30am

    brushhog

    brushhog

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    Posts: 141

    4

    300lbs deadlift is pretty good

    For a regular guy, not a competitive strength athlete. He's stronger than 85% of men. For a lay person who is lifting for strength, health, and well being its more than adequate.

    People love to throw these big numbers around but when you go to any gym the number of guys who can put the big numbers up is miniscule.

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  • Thu, Jan 14, 2021 - 5:44am

    Penguin Will

    Penguin Will

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    Penguin Will said:

    People love to throw these big numbers around but when you go to any gym the number of guys who can put the big numbers up is miniscule.

    Hell man, that's half the fun. Lying about the weight you can throw up, how accurate your rifle is, how fast your car is, that kind of thing. That's what the internet is for. 🙂

    This kind of discussion has been a staple of the 'net for as long as there has been a 'net. This one is actually more tame, fact based, and respectful than normal I'd say. But although the discussion is the same, I am not. At one point I was 290 pounds... muscle bound and throwing around pretty big weight. I tried running one day and found that a quarter mile was about my limit. Changed course and two years later was a fit 255 and had fallen in love with trail running. Couple years later was down to a slim 230 and running was my thing with a 10 mile trail run every weekend. I'm a bit on the tall size with a large frame so my normal weight is fairly high even when "slim". I'm about 245 in the avatar pic.

    Point? You can be in good shape and have drastically different capabilities and body mass. Likewise what you need from your diet can change drastically depending on what your body likes and what you do with it. Now with middle age moving in on me I have to admit that even the purpose of exercise and diet has begun to change in my mind. So I have more of an open mind and have also realized that the term "long run" has implications as to what is suitable and what is not.

    There are a ton of healthy diets and nutrition philosophies out there. The best one? The one you will follow. There are a ton of exercise regiments and philosophies out there. The best one? The one you will actually do on a regular basis.

    Interesting reading though. It always amazes me, the radically different things people have success with.

    Will

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  • Thu, Jan 14, 2021 - 6:24am

    #86
    ao

    ao

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    playing devil's advocate position

    I always like to look at a position differing from the one I currently hold on a subject.  You learn a lot that way.  I remember reading that a Norwegian explorer, years ago, had determined that raw seal meat was the best food for his men on an extended expedition.  They ate it and thrived on it and actually enjoyed it.

    Here's a very interesting discussion of Inuit cuisine:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inuit_cuisine

    The question of the day.  Who would like to venture a guess as to why this diet worked for them?

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  • Thu, Jan 14, 2021 - 8:04am

    Adam Taggart

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: May 25 2009

    Posts: 6669

    2

    Impressive or not?

    AO -

    In many ways, I agree with you that a 300lbs deadlift isn't that impressive -- if you're a serious lifter. I have buddies who shame me by pulling over 400# with ease.

    Part of that is training and part is because physiology plays a factor, too. Some body types & shapes are just better suited to this type of lift than others.

    My all-time PR is "only" 355#. I'm proud of that, though I realize it's a warm-up weight for some -- like you, apparently. 455# is a monster weight for anyone but a small single percentage point of humans.

    And for anyone reading this who is not an experienced deadlifter and is wondering who's "right" about whether 300#lbs is a respectable weight, go try to lift it for yourself

    I'll wait.... 🙂

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  • Thu, Jan 14, 2021 - 8:27am

    Base12

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    The entire trailer you linked to? No...

    Didn't watch the video because it was a trailer for a movie.  I prefer written articles with links to sources.

    You didn't mention any of those other guys in the previous post.

    The China Study is bunk.

    https://deniseminger.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/

    Homo erectus did NOT evolve into Homo sapiens.  They are an evolutionary dead end.

    Frankly, how anyone can seriously argue that a species with canine teeth was meant to follow a plant only diet is baffling.  We're clearly omnivores meant to eat meat.  More to your point, there is plenty of evidence that pre-agricultural humans ate plenty of meat.

    https://aleph-2020.blogspot.com/2020/04/the-role-of-asfs-in-historical-diets.html

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  • Thu, Jan 14, 2021 - 8:58am

    ao

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    brushhog, I agree, it is pretty good lift

    Dang, I had written a long post but then accidently overwrote it.  So I'll try again.

    It is a pretty good lift but it's not impressive.  The number you gave was 85% which I think is in the ball park.  As a numerical grade, this would give you a B.  Would you be happy if your children came home from school with a B average?  Well that depends, on a number of different factors.

    I also agree that this strength level is more than adequate.  In my past 20 years, there's only been twice that I can recall when I've used that kind of strength.  Once, when moving a tree off the trail when I was out in the boonies with my vehicle and didn't have a chainsaw or pry bar handy.  The other was when lifting the tongue of a trailer in a dicey situation.  In both situations, I managed the lift but my back didn't feel wonderful afterwards.

    The dead lift actually became more popular among the general public in recent times largely because of the writings of Pavel Tsatsouline and then was picked up by the P90X crowd and similar training programs.  It will definitely build great strength and has been advocated largely because it will generate a substantial release of endogenous anabolic hormones including growth hormone.  This is true. 

    But the orthopaedic risk is considerable and this risk grows with age.  In particular, the hip joints, sacroiliac joints, and lumbar spine (especially the discs and particularly the L5-S1 disc) will suffer with multi-decade performance of this exercise.  This damage usually starts manifesting itself in symptoms around the mid 50s to 60 years of age with radiological evidence of the damage appearing around this time.  In my professional career, I observed this pattern again and again among professional and Olympic athletes involved in heavily strength based activities and training.  

    I've always assessed exercises, like other things in life such as investing, by asking "What is the risk/benefit ratio?".  With the deadlift, the benefit is moderate to high but the risk is high as well with risk increasing even more as one advances in age.  

    One can say that if you use could form, you won't get injured.  Certainly, good form is critical.  But the day will come when you are tired, stressed, anxious, hurried, nervous, distracted, unfocused, or whatever and injury will occur.  And with this particular lift, the injury can be catastrophic.  I recall attending a national strength coaches meeting years ago and watching an elite level female power lifter give a lifting demonstration.  I watched her execute the dead lift and thought, "Oops!".  Sure enough, a call went out for a chiropractor or doctor in the audience.  It was pretty clear that she had blown out her back, a probable lumbar disc injury.  In fact, now that I'm writing this, I recall it was Jan Todd who unfortunately, I just learned from reading, passed away at age 68.  I didn't see anything about the cause of death.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Todd

    One problem is that people performing dead lifts are rarely assessed beforehand for frontal plane symmetry.  The most common cause of frontal plane asymmetry is leg length difference.  Leg length difference can be functional (which can be corrected with manipulative therapy) or structural (which can be compensated for but not corrected).  Hemi-pelvic height difference is among the causes of leg length difference and will be evident in sitting as well as standing.  Although it is a different lift, the late great Bruce Lee blew out his back performing a straight leg dead lift.  He injured it so badly, in fact, that he was told he might never walk again and would definitely not perform kung fu again.  However, due to his supreme training, knowledge, will, and spirit, he not only walked again but also performed martial arts spectacularly again.  But he was the exception (in this and almost everything else he did).

    In terms of functionality, I'm pretty sure I posted the story here of a world record holder in the dead lift (I think it was in the 198 lb. class at that time) who observed a woman in a convertible having her purse stolen at a stop light.  He proceeded to sprint after the thief but, doing this cold, without a warm-up, and with his training and age, pulled both hamstrings and wound up being almost as helpless as the woman.  So here's an example of the strongest man in the world at his weight being utterly non-functional.

    In terms of how this number would rank in a gym, I can think of a couple of gyms in my small town where this number would put Adam right near the very top.  But in the hard core lifting gym in town, that number wouldn't get a second look and would put him in the class of a rank beginner.  Also, in a gym frequented by white collar workers, that number may be impressive.  But in a gym peopled by blue collar workers who are doing hard physical work as masons, construction workers, boilermakers, etc., that number would probably be about average. 

    I can also think of a friend of mine who was a chiropractor and became a medical doctor.  He competed successfully in powerlifting at the state level and was incredibly strong.  I remember watching him easily pick up the back of VW Beetle and perform quarter squats with 800 lbs. on his shoulders (with the bar bending).  But he was lumbering and slow and not a particularly good athlete.  And as he has aged, problems have appeared in those joints noted.  He has also started suffering kidney problems from a life long high level consumption of animal protein.

    In summation, I just don't see the dead lift (nor power lifting weight numbers in general) as being a good measure of one's health, fitness, or functionality.  YMMV.

     

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  • Thu, Jan 14, 2021 - 9:39am

    MKI

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    China Study

    Base: The China Study is bunk.

    Agreed. For another really good explanation of why the CS is bunk, check this out.

    Base, I'd be interested in any experiences you have regarding diet, exercise, books, etc.

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  • Thu, Jan 14, 2021 - 9:50am

    Penguin Will

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    Penguin Will said:

    And for anyone reading this who is not an experienced deadlifter and is wondering who's "right" about whether 300#lbs is a respectable weight, go try to lift it for yourself...

    No! For any who aren't current, regular lifters please don't. It's a rhetorical challenge. Your spine will thank you for taking a pass on this one. 🙂

    Adam, for what it is worth I commend you. Putting a lift vid online is akin to putting up a vid of yourself dropping a tree with a chainsaw. Doesn't make a bit of difference how good or safe it is, you are going to get 90% negative response. That's the world we live in.

    True story. At a get together for my pop's old Marine Corps buddies they told me of a dead lift that he did that was a good bit over 3x body weight. I was told it would have been a MC record had it been done in a more formal setting. He was probably 225 lb at the time.  The man never worked out. Never.

    I, otoh, have worked out my whole life and have never seen the day I would attempt a 3x deadlift. Why? Don't like the lift and am not built for it. My pop had a barrel chest and normal shoulder width. But he had arms like a damned gorilla. Seriously. He was a bit over 6' 2" like me, but he had a reach that outspanned me by a good 6 to 8 inches. And my shoulders are a good bit wider than his ever were. My arms reach way down on my thighs, he could damned near touch his knees while standing up.

    Build matters in lifting. A bunch.

    But why worry about what other people think of your workout or your lift/run? I remember Mark Twight putting up a post years ago where he absolutely excoriated people who criticize other's workout habits or how strong they are. And this is the man who founded Gym Jones and its philosophy. It's good advice for all of us.

    Will

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  • Thu, Jan 14, 2021 - 10:00am

    ao

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    Base12, sorry about that link

    Sorry I linked to the trailer rather than the full documentary.  Here's the documentary:

    I'd watch it.  I prefer written articles as well but in this case, I think it'll answer a lot of your questions (or maybe not).

    With regards to the China Study being bunk, I'm sure you're familiar with the art of debating.  A case can be made for the opposite of almost every issue on earth.  I'm sure, if you look, you'll find a debunking of the debunking (as in the case of the 9/11 controversy).  But that aside, I never look exclusively at one source.  I always look for a preponderance of evidence.  I think if you honestly pursue this issue, you'll find a preponderance of evidence supporting the benefits of a plant based diet.  But if you're not particularly interested in authentic learning and just want to find information to substantiate your position, you'll find that too.  The choice is yours.

    I'll admit to not being an expert on evolution.  So what was the predecessor of homo sapiens and what did they eat?  All the present day primates closest to us are vegetarian or almost vegetarian.  

    With regards to canine teeth, your argument is weak and without merit.  Unless you look like Dracula, your canines are pretty insignicant.  And your molars are designed for grinding and chewing, not cutting and tearing.  They don't have the scissor cutting type design that a shark or a dog might have on the posterior teeth.  And to debunk your argument even further, consider the gorilla, probably our closest relative.  He has an impressive set of canines and is 100% vegetarian.  Watch the video for more information on the subject of dentition and its relation to diet.

    I agree with you that we are omnivores.  And pre-agricultural humans did eat meat.  The question is, how much in comparison to animal food?  I think that has a lot to do with the lattitude the human is living at and seasonality.  I do know, however, that if you observe people who have cured themselves of disease, there are far, far, far more who went from a heavily animal based diet to a plant based diet who have cured themselves than vice versa.  In fact, I recall a research study published years ago in Acta Physiological Scandinavica that looked at all the various treatment regimens for treating rheumatoid arthritis.  The most effective, more so than any pharmaceutical regimen, was therapeutic fasting followed by a healthy vegetarian diet.  Joel Fuhrman has noted that this therapeutic benefit of a plant based diet extends to many of rheumatological disease as well.  

    I'm sure if you do an honest search for the truth, you'll find that, in comparison to a diet with high levels of animal protein, a plant based diet is markedly superior.

    Oh, by the way, in Jack LaLanne's book, "Celebrating 90 plus Years of Healthy Living", on page 8, Jack talks about how he became a vegetarian after listening to Paul Bragg.  I was not aware of this previously.  I know he dabbled with drinking fresh blood and also had heard of him eating fish in a restaurant so I'm not sure how closely he adhered to this in later years.  I do know, when you look at his physical performance, his health and fitness, and his age when he passed, he was outstanding on all accounts.  There was a reason Arnold Schwarzenegger called Jack an "animal" when, at age 54, Jack outperformed Arnold in his prime, who was 33 years younger.

    Bill Pearl, the body builder (who was incredibly strong as well and proved that in demonstrations where he did such things as exploding hot water bottles by blowing into them and tearing phone books in half) became a vegetarian at age 39 and is still with us at 90.  From my understanding though, he is lacto-ovo.  I can't cut and paste the photo but do a search for Bill at age 57.  His appearance is incredible.

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  • Thu, Jan 14, 2021 - 10:20am

    MKI

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    Impressive or not?

    Adam, I agree with your thinking. I only lift because it keeps me really fit, flexible, and feeling young beyond 50 years old, not to get gains. I actually feel younger and more agile than when I was 30, all due to diet and lifting. It's crazy.

    physiology plays a factor, too. Some body types & shapes are just better suited to this type of lift than others.

    Yep. I love to focus on lifts my body is not built for - such as squats. I don't ever care about how much; I never even try to find my max as I feel it healthier to do 5x3 or 5x5 sets rather than a single strain. What has really helped (besides diet of course) has been always increasing weight. IOW, always failing every lift, but focusing on high-quality form.

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  • Thu, Jan 14, 2021 - 10:36am

    ao

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    Penguin Will, I have a similar warning to those who might take Adam's challenge literally

    Please do not attempt a 1 repetition maximum dead lift if you have not been trained in it and practiced it under some supervision.  That is a good way of injuring yourself, sometimes permanently.

    BTW, my posts are not to put down Adam.  As I said, it is a decent lift and he has transformed himself remarkably and is to be applauded for it.  Adam, it'd be interesting to hear your height and weight.  I could be wrong if you are shorter and lighter than I would have guessed. 

    My main purpose was to provide a viewpoint that was not in agreement with power lifting exercises and the weights lifted being representative as a measure of health, a view point proposed by MKI.  Let me say here as well, I always read MKI's posts and respect and value his viewpoints which are intelligent and well considered.  He often takes a contrarian view which can be of particular value.  But if a statement is a little over the top in some respects, I feel a certain respponsibility to present a differing and clarifying point of view, especially in an area where I've been educated, practiced professionally, and talked the talk and walked the walk my whole adult life.

    PW, I also have similar experiences with my Dad. He was a USMC drill instructor for a brief period during WW2 before shipping out to the Pacific (even though he had a previous deferment as a draftsman working on designing PT boats).  He held the underwater obstacle course record at Paris Island at the time and when I was a kid, I watched him pump out 40 one arm push-ups at a clip and perform true one arm chin-ups.  He had hands with fingers like a baseball glove and was quick as lightning with combative techniques.  My hands are big but look like girlie hands in comparison.  Those old guys were something else.  Unfortunately, he destroyed his health and body with cigarette smoking as well as toxic chemical exposure.;-(

     

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  • Thu, Jan 14, 2021 - 11:26am

    #95
    Base12

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    MKI

    That link you posted to is another good review.

    My experiences with diet, exercise, and books...

    My interest in nutrition started off with my Introduction to Human Nutrition Class in college.  A buddy took the class with me and we both tried to join a cholesterol study to get free meals for 2 weeks.  He was adamant about following a low fat "healthy" diet, and I ate a high fat diet not entirely on the "healthy" side.  Somehow he got accepted into the study, but my cholesterol was too low and I wasn't allowed in.  It got me curious.

    Since then I started with Weston A. Price's book  Nutrition and Physical Degeneration.  Fascinating book.  Followed this for a while, but got to thinking how much work it was to make grains worth eating.  Kept reading and like Adam eventually settled on Mark Sisson and his "primal" way.  So, yes ao, I spent years researching diets and found the evidence for plant based diets lacking, before I settled on eating the way I do.

    My diet is now eat as much real whole foods as I want (meat, veggies, fruit, eggs, etc.).  Some sprouted grains too.  No counting calories because my body tells me when I'm full.  I also eat dairy because my genes allow me to.  Anything with grains or sugar is  eaten sparingly, but I still allow myself treats.

    I don't exercise anymore in the traditional sense.  I like doing projects and prefer working hard to lifting weights.  I built a retaining wall and patio / fire pit by hand one summer.  Shoveled and move 16 tons of rock by hand and I don't know how much soil.  Playing with my kids is surprisingly good exercise too.

    Anyway it works for me.  My employer gives us a free health assessment every year. Last one (at 5'-11") I was 178 lbs with 12.8% body fat and normal blood work.  Pretty good for someone who hasn't seen the inside of a gym in 10 years.

    This thread has got me curious again.  I should find something that weighs 300 lbs and try to lift it.

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  • Thu, Jan 14, 2021 - 1:11pm

    #96
    tbp

    tbp

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    Biophysics, light modulation, oral contraceptives, baking keto, juicing, plant vs animal nutrients

    @Kat43
    "Weight Loss is All About Nutrition"

    No, it's not. Weight loss is about proper hormone management, and that primarily comes from observing circadian rhythm, natural light, and avoiding unnatural light (nnEMF). Because we are bioelectric beings and different wavelengths of light at different times of day control healthy hormone functions. I follow Jack Kruse and Leland Stillman for this kind of information. Biophysics trumps biochemistry.

    Brilliant point, love it! I've been saying this for a while too: that the causality of reality is metaphysics (higher dimensions i.e. the conceptual realm where idea/concept becomes manifest in dimensions below as causes and effects, reachable during incarnation by using DMT or even meditation alone) -> biophysics -> biochemistry. Then on top of that the medical system tries to patch symptoms intead of trying to address the apparent root biochemical cause.

    The higher the frequency, the closer you get to "the miraculous" as you approach the 4D astral/dream/blueprint realm and then the 5D probability space and then the 6D phase space that is made of "miracles transforming into other miracles" as Terence McKenna put it and as you can verify for yourself without even having to die, by using DMT (our primary frequency neuromodulator).

    A very interesting case is the high-dose niacin treatment, which, though induced biochemically, seems like an extremely potent borderline-biophysical healing mechanism, apparently making it the #1 fastest Covid cure. Cannabinoids agonizing CB1 and CB2 receptors is another type as reality warps itself into preferential outcomes, or, as Bashar put it, it is of "the frequency that represents stepping the blueprint down into physical materialization". Magnetic therapies of various stripes are another type of biophysical "miracle" cure for many ailments, as is accupuncture and other disciplines of Traditional Chinese Medicine, Ayurveda, etc.

    I/we've been modulating our light exposure more and more over the last year, previously more just to activate chakras, but now based on info from researchers like Dr. Jack Kruse. Say we bring someone over for a dinner or movie and we want to activate our 5th chakra, we might then use blue light illumination for a short while and then switch to red/orange.

    People using artificial "white" light sources other than the old (quite banned) incandescent light bulbs (that includes me not long ago) have no idea what they're slowly doing to themselves (just as with diet and artificial EMF exposure). Jack Kruse is fascinating but a bit "all over the place". I gotta check out Leland Stillman, thanks!

    @MKI
    Hesitate to go here, but oral contraceptives are also a very common prescription in the U.S. and a massive challenge many women have that men simply don't: trying to keep a natural hormonal balance while on drugs that deliberately mess with said cycle (many women use NFP rather than drugs for this). BTW, lack of menstrual cramps is just another surprising effect of a high-nutrient diet we've seen - DDs were truly puzzled their friends talking about menstrual pains since they've never had any. Diet is magic.

    You're right, using antiprogestogens (progesterone antagonists/receptor modulators) regularly is a terrible idea. A much superior idea is to get a good grip on your cycle and know when you're ovulating, then use an antiprogestogen occasionally if necessary (and you could pair it with a proprogestogen i.e. progesterone after a day to reduce hormone balance impact but it might be hard to get progesterone), if not using prophylaxis.

    One more (taboo) gender dietary subject: statistically women love breads, sweets, and fruit more than men (sure true in our house as well) which is a challenge for women who like to bake. And of course, the stereotype for men is to eat meat, so this whole dietary change to fat and protein seems easier for men, at least in my circle.

    Learn to bake keto!!! Once you get there you'll find no reason to bake carb-based! Or, at least, replace sugar with erythritol+stevia.

    @davefairtex
    Ok diet-meisters, I really enjoy this juice I make for myself. It started out as an anti-oxident blend, but it kind of morphed over time. Tell me if this is bad:

    Ingredients:

    + apple (3)
    + carrot (6-8)
    + passionfruit (8-10)
    + beetroot (3)
    + ginger (3")
    + turmeric (2")

    This is literally the tastiest juice ever. My body seems to like about a cup of it at a time, with meals, but no more. I use a slow juicer.

    If I don't put the ginger, its totally not right. Adding the turmeric was additive too, although it turned the juicer insides orange. Passionfruit is required. I can substitute pomegranate for apple.

    So what do you think? Instant insulin shock?

    That's the PERFECT juicing, if the carrots, beetroot, and especially apples are organic (apples are otherwise usually full of toxins). The apples and beetroot (don't call it a veggie lol) are strongly glycemic, but the beetroots' rare red-purple antioxidants and methyl donor properties make it worth it IMO, strongly outranking the apples. Maybe try to reduce the apples to 1 and add some stevia and/or monk fruit or even sucralose/Ace-K/cyclamate (tiny amount). Not sure how glycemic passionfruit is. Do you notice any MAOI effect from it btw?

    Others you might want to add to your juicing or blending that come to mind (perhaps to other mixes): celery, cucumber, goji berries, spinach, chaga, reishi. I guess the last 3-4 are more for blending.

    @LesPhelps
    All nutrients come from plants. Getting nutrients indirectly by eating animals is more than somewhat suboptimal.

    Although it's true that some nutrients are lacking in animal foods and vice-versa, the fat-soluble vitamins (A, E, K), for instance, are rare in plant foods, and vegans develop deficiencies over time. B12 is only the most prominent example. Lack of saturated fats and absorbable/usable proteins is also an issue. The nutrients in plants are generally far less absorbable, and for many people with damaged gut linings and/or microbiomes, getting sufficient amounts of nutrition from plants over time is between difficult and impossible.

    It's nice to be talking about nutrition/health for a change! So much about the same subject lately, at least for me LOL. This is another health factor we should all be considering: as much as it's fun and useful to be on top of happenings, don't spend TOO much time on the same one "negative" subject as it can affect our stress levels as well as help increase perpetuation of similar manifestations. Keep visualizing positive outcomes and diversify into many subjects!

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  • Thu, Jan 14, 2021 - 9:37pm

    #97
    XZBD2

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    More questions then answers

    Thanks Adam for bringing up the topic and providing the incentive for people to take charge of their health.  I believe that while people can give you ideas to try, its your body, you have to be the one to take responsibility for learning to operate it properly and that involves taking time listening to what it has to say. Not that coaches won’t help.  

    I have a lot more questions then I do answers. 

    First how diversified is the genetics between people, as I know there are obvious examples of extreme cases that stand out, but what about more subtle abilities to metabolize and synthesize compounds?  

    What was the diversity of our paleo ancestors and since I doubt they were white, I suspect there has been at least some genetic diversity created since then. How much and what are the effects on metabolism?  

    What effects do all the toxic compounds in our diet, air and water have on nutritional needs? What about the microwave EMF from phones and the impact of it opening Calcium gated channels in our cells? 

    What impact does the constant temp environment we now live in and the resulting loss of functional brown fat? 

    What about Bruce Ames triage theory and nutritional requirements to optimize now may not be optimal or sufficient for longevity? 

    How has transitioning to wearing soft casts on our feet almost all the time and thus no longer grounded impacted the requirements for antioxidants? 

    What impact did what your mother ate and felt and even her mother have on your epigenetics involving metabolism?  How about whether you where born natural or via c section or whether you were fed breast milk and how Long?  What impact do the people or animals you live with have through influencing your gut microbiota? We know that a swap of gut bacteria can dramatically change someones metabolism, can that evolution occur as a result of your environment?  Now that we know that there is a two way genetic conversation through RNA filled liposomes between our gut bacteria and our cells, can a drastic change in diet/  a fast or even a course of antibiotics reset the system and perhaps effect our epigenetics long term?  What signals are we getting from the food we eat through this mechanism?

    Since it is clear that even the chemical compounds released by gut bacteria influence the functioning of our brain, what impact does diet have on this signaling and does it depend on the composition of the gut microflora?

     Wim hoff has done a good job of illustrating the dramatic impact breath can have on metabolism. What role does breathing and how we breath play? 

    What impact do our thoughts have on how the food is metabolized as we know they can influence our immune system and our gut is a major part of that system? 

    How does time of day impact how food is processed? 

    Do activities (exercise, stress, snacks) prior or after a meal have a significant impact?

    Finally the only bit of advise I would give is that when you get older flexibility is equally if not more important than strength in being able to have a fun life and it is way easier to develop that when you are younger rather then waiting until you start getting injuries from the lack of it.  

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  • Fri, Jan 15, 2021 - 5:16am

    Penguin Will

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    Penguin Will said:

    Not a problem ao, it's not like we were arguing about something important like Husky vs Stihl, or Kimber vs Colt. 🙂

     

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  • Fri, Jan 15, 2021 - 5:21am

    #99
    Mohammed Mast

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    XZBD2

    Great first post. Nominated for best post of thread.

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  • Fri, Jan 15, 2021 - 7:59am

    MKI

    MKI

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    Older flexibility

    Finally the only bit of advise I would give is that when you get older flexibility is equally if not more important than strength in being able to have a fun life and it is way easier to develop that when you are younger rather then waiting until you start getting injuries from the lack of it.

    Diet and strength (muscle) will correlate with older flexibility as well as prevents injuries. But again, strength is 90% diet (esp protein), 10% physical activity. I never believed this (although I was told it by older, shredded, flexible guys many times). I only believed by doing it myself, as Adam has. And over 50 I'm healthier and more flexible than at 30. Again, diet (90%)  and weights/cardio (7/3%) = longevity, flexibility, and a fun life for the human animal. There is no contradiction.

    Regarding genetic diversity: yes, there are some modern foods many can't eat (grains, milk, certain legumes, alcohol, drugs), but if one just avoids those, the "diversity" problem is solved.

    One last comment: why trust anyone on nutrition/fitness without the body and health metrics you desire? At every age. If they aren't fit and healthy I just ignore them.

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  • Fri, Jan 15, 2021 - 10:04am

    ao

    ao

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    PW, I will say this

    I'll never buy Husqvarna again and I love H&K, lol.

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