This video was designed specifically to be shared! So share away!!

There’s a huge and largely manufactured campaign of disinformation about Ivermectin in the news. This video asks and answers the question; “Is ivermectin a horse-dewormer or a Nobel prize-winning medicine?”

As you know, the present is becoming increasingly perilous and the future is even more uncertain. The good news is that there is a growing community of people hanging out over at Peak Prosperity (dot) com who are wrestling with the data and the implications so they can take actions to become more resilient.

If you aren’t already, we’d love to have you and you are hereby invited to become a full member at Peak Prosperity which you can easily do by clicking this link: https://mailchi.mp/peakprosperity.com/youtube27

Video Description

Links

Merck Congratulates Awardees of 2015 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine for Discovery Leading to River Blindness Treatment:
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20151005006695/en/Merck-Congratulates-Awardees-of-2015-Nobel-Prize-in-Physiology-or-Medicine-for-Discovery-Leading-to-River-Blindness-Treatment

Expert Review Report of Medical Safety of Ivermectin by Jacques Descotes:
https://www.medincell.com/ivermectin/

Effectiveness of Ivermectin-Based Multidrug Therapy in Severe Hypoxic Ambulatory COVID-19 Patients: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.06.21259924v1

Early Data from Gilead’s Compassionate Use of Remdesivir for COVID-19 Looks Promising: https://www.biospace.com/article/data-from-gilead-s-compassionate-use-of-remdesivir-for-covid-19-looks-promising/

WHO Recommends Against the Use of Remdesivir in COVID-19 Patients:
https://www.uspharmacist.com/article/more-evidence-that-remdesivir-hcq-not-effective-against-covid19s

Antiviral Drugs That Are Approved or Under Evaluation for the Treatment of COVID-19: https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/therapies/antiviral-therapy/summary-recommendations/

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243 Comments

  • Fri, Sep 17, 2021 - 7:16pm

    #1
    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 1506

    2

    More on IVM and Remdesivir

    Just posted this in another thread.  But a good interview with Dr Ryan Cole.

    https://www.brighteon.com/66d73ab6-00a3-46b8-b7f5-e203507a2dc9

     

    here is another link ( not sure why brighteon link is not working - 500 server error )

    https://vokalnow.com/video/4306

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  • Fri, Sep 17, 2021 - 7:19pm

    #2
    Chris Martenson

    Chris Martenson

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    14

    Google Ad targeting

    I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but look at the first ad that came up for me when I was watching the video on YouTube:

    lol.

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  • Fri, Sep 17, 2021 - 7:48pm

    #3
    Mike from Jersey

    Mike from Jersey

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Jan 22 2018

    Posts: 1211

    15

    Well, he did it

    Chris said the "I" word on YouTube.

    I know Chris is aware of the penalties for telling the truth on YouTube. So I am sure that he did this by design.

    Let's hope the "design" works out. We are running out of time.

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  • Fri, Sep 17, 2021 - 8:18pm

    #4
    jerryr

    jerryr

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    16

    Censorship regime breaking down?

    Robert Malone appeared for a full hour interview on the Jimmy Dore show on YouTube this week. Malone spoke about vaccine risks, and about early treatments. Dore has been dancing around this issue cautiously for weeks, but has been careful (up until now) not to cross the line.

    And then there was that 200,000 comment thread about vaccine injuries and deaths on Facebook, in reply to WXYZ's query about unvaccinated covid cases.

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  • Fri, Sep 17, 2021 - 8:26pm

    #5
    Aquila Virtue

    Aquila Virtue

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    38

    Aquila Virtue said:

    I identify as a horse for medicinal purposes. I also think my vet has more integrity than most doctors.

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  • Fri, Sep 17, 2021 - 8:43pm

    Stph

    Stph

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    Posts: 125

    8

    Hey Chris! Congrats!

    Play for all the marbles.  I think I see a strategy.  Makes me proud to be here!

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  • Fri, Sep 17, 2021 - 8:43pm

    #7
    Kathy

    Kathy

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    Posts: 540

    9

    I’m pretty sure I am allergic to remdesiver

    If anyone asks, I think I will just report it along with my other allergies.

    Then if they give it to me and I die my loved one can sue.

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  • Fri, Sep 17, 2021 - 8:51pm

    #8
    yagasjai

    yagasjai

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    Posts: 184

    6

    OMG Chris...

    ... you just make too much sense! Will it work? I hope so!!!

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  • Fri, Sep 17, 2021 - 8:55pm

    #9
    JoshuaGreen

    JoshuaGreen

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    3

    Decision matrix doesn't say much on its own

    The problem with that decision matrix is that you could replace Ivermectin with just about anything and get the same chart.  Let's go with gummy bears.  They're harmless, and if they help then they're beneficial, so I guess we should prescribe them to all COVID patients.

    To make your case you really have to have extra information, namely evidence of efficacy.  In the past you've decided to really drill into and criticize evidence in favor of other treatments.  Have you similarly reviewed and scrutinized the evidence in favor of Ivermectin?  Neither this video nor your previous video on Ivermectin toxicology does so (though I admit that I've only skimmed the latter).

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  • Fri, Sep 17, 2021 - 8:59pm

    Kathy

    Kathy

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    Kathy said:

    Except no one is blocking me from getting gummie bears.

    And we have doctors using atypical antipsychotics off label for kids with autism, but I as a post menopausal woman can’t get ivermectin.

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  • Fri, Sep 17, 2021 - 9:05pm

    #11
    HurricaneRider

    HurricaneRider

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    HurricaneRider said:

    State facts, avoid all drama, cite accepted prior works, build a solid case... and I'll bet this video is off youtube by morning.  It's going to be interesting to watch where things go from there.

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  • Fri, Sep 17, 2021 - 9:07pm

    Mark_BC

    Status: Silver Member

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    Mark_BC said:

    Have you similarly reviewed and scrutinized the evidence in favor of Ivermectin? Neither this video nor your previous video on Ivermectin toxicology does so (though I admit that I've only skimmed the latter)

    You signed up over a year ago. Have you not been to the site since?

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  • Fri, Sep 17, 2021 - 9:52pm

    #13
    HurricaneRider

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    HurricaneRider said:

    re JoshuaGreen #9, "Let's go with gummy bears."

    No, let's not.  There is no proposed mechanism by which gummy bears would work here.  There is no in vitro data to say that they might.  There are not even anecdotal reports of unexpected successes with them.  Without any of this, it's just not a good working hypothesis around which to build trials, and it would be a ludicrous (if tasty) waste of resources during a crisis.

    This is in no way similar to the ivermectin-may-work hypothesis, which has plenty make it worth trying.

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  • Fri, Sep 17, 2021 - 9:56pm

    skywolf

    skywolf

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    skywolf said:

    internal server error - repost?

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  • Fri, Sep 17, 2021 - 10:20pm

    #15
    helmadi

    helmadi

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    9

    How Australia Has Turned Into A PRISON STATE!! (Americans Are You Listening?)





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  • Fri, Sep 17, 2021 - 10:32pm

    #16
    boutique1976

    boutique1976

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    4

    Thank you for this very informative video!

    Thank you for this video, its very informative and I am so grateful for your courage to report on these things during this time!

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  • Fri, Sep 17, 2021 - 10:40pm

    #17
    JoshuaGreen

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    JoshuaGreen said:

    My point in bringing up gummy bears was simply that Chris's vaunted decision matrix works just as well for them.  (It's basically a form of Pascal's wager.)  Now, if Chris wants to argue that Ivermectin is different because there's evidence that Ivermectin works then fine, he's free to do that and he should pound that point hard.  However, he did that neither here nor in his toxicology video.

    @Kathy, I agree that blocking isn't really proper.  Even without evidence of efficacy, I have no problem with people taking Ivermectin in consultation with their doctor as long as they take the proper version in proper doses and still follow other mandated COVID procedures.  However, there's a difference between what individuals should be allowed to do and what we as a society should actively encourage and even support.

    @Mark_BC, yes, I've been following his work for some time, but since he switched from articles to videos it's been harder to keep up with all of his positions and analysis.  A video can contain any information and I have to set aside a block of time to watch him go through whatever he feels like, with no way to find when or where he covers anything I might be particularly interested in.  (No search functionality!)  That's a limitation of this medium.  If he has gone through the evidence of Ivermectin efficacy in some detail (and with a similar critical eye) then please show me where; I don't recall seeing that advertised in any of his blurbs.

    @HurricaneRider, true, there is no proposed mechanism by which gummy bears would work here.  However, Chris has been happy to bash the vaccines for which there are proposed mechanisms, while conversely he's highlighted concerns about them without proposed mechanisms (and even argued that we don't need a mechanism if we have data).  Thus, it all still comes down to the same question -- how solid is the data in favor of Ivermectin?  I agree that it's safe when used properly (as prescribed, by those who it's prescribed for), but that doesn't mean it would be safe for everyone, nor does that imply anything about efficacy.

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  • Fri, Sep 17, 2021 - 11:12pm

    Mark_BC

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2010

    Posts: 577

    11

    Mark_BC said:

    @Mark_BC, yes, I've been following his work for some time, but since he switched from articles to videos it's been harder to keep up with all of his positions and analysis. A video can contain any information and I have to set aside a block of time to watch him go through whatever he feels like, with no way to find when or where he covers anything I might be particularly interested in. (No search functionality!) That's a limitation of this medium. If he has gone through the evidence of Ivermectin efficacy in some detail (and with a similar critical eye) then please show me where; I don't recall seeing that advertised in any of his blurbs.

    I'm not going to do your work for you. Since you asked the question, go to flccc.net and you will find all the info you need there. Dr. Kory and that organization's work have been featured prominently in many PP posts and videos.

    Also go to ivmmeta.com for a summary of all studies / trials done today with a meta-analysis.

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  • Fri, Sep 17, 2021 - 11:20pm

    Dan Gillam

    Dan Gillam

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    Dan Gillam said:

    The problem is for every honest fact based YouTube, there are 100 lies and BS.   The propaganda war rages.

    Here for example is a person claiming to give compelling scientific evidence that Ivermectin does not work.





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  • Fri, Sep 17, 2021 - 11:33pm

    #20
    caroleangarano

    caroleangarano

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    23

    caroleangarano said:

    I am a frontline worker RN taking care of covid patients.I am not vaccinated and I have been taking Ivermectin every 2 weeks plus my vitamins from the FLCCC  website for prophylaxis except melatonin which makes me sleepy or groggy in am. I also take olive leaf, tumeric and chaga powder. I have done this since last year around August or September 2020.  I have not contracted covid, considering I am A+ blood type. I thank God as well for protecting me!  Another thing I noticed is that in the ICU or when patients are already intubated, Remdesivir does nothing for them, and I see it is useless since they die anyway. It would be interesting to see a study, or numbers of people not intubated and that received Remdesivir, how many got better because of it. It is frustrating, very sad that more people cannot be saved with all this misinformation and lies!

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  • Fri, Sep 17, 2021 - 11:41pm

    #21

    Arthur Robey

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    Posts: 1468

    8

    My Intuition

    My intuition is that our moral superiors on YouTube et al, are tip-toeing away from the fray.

    Here's a thought. They went to work and all their bosses were absent; gone off to their repurposed missile silos in grand funk, leaving their useful idiots to face the wrath of the awakened Saxon.

    It fits with Clif_High's prognostications.

    This is it, Normies. At the sound of my voice , in  10 seconds you will wake from your deep trance.

    10, 9, 8, 

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 12:01am

    Arthur Robey

    Status: Member

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    Posts: 1468

    7

    Response to the Australian video

    I am a Rhodesian. When the whole world turned upon us, everybody in that land-locked country wanted a yacht.

    Now I am in Australia and have a yacht. The problem is, of cause, the colour of my skin. White people are not allowed to be refugees.

    Ask the Afrikaaners of South Africa.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 12:05am

    #23
    stuw

    stuw

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    10

    stuw said:




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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 12:14am

    Southerngal

    Southerngal

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    Joined: Mar 21 2011

    Posts: 1

    13

    Vet

    My daughter who is a Vet has said for years dogs get better treatment than humans.  I agree.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 12:20am

    #25
    SomeGuyFromQuébec

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    SomeGuyFromQuébec said:

    BOTH! 

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 1:41am

    #26
    helmadi

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    4

    Fauci says he doesn’t have a ‘firm answer’ if natural immunity is better than the COVID-19 vaccine

    https://www.deseret.com/coronavirus/2021/9/17/22673381/dr-fauci-natural-immunity-covid-19-vaccine

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 1:58am

    #27
    davefairtex

    davefairtex

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    Posts: 2780

    6

    remdesivir & lawsuits

    Perhaps remdesivir remains on the list for 2 reasons: 1) more profits for Gilead, granted by a captured "health" regulator, and 2) more people dying in hospital = more fear = stronger vaccine uptake = a win for BMGF.

    Remdesivir certainly doesn't remain on the list for "health".   I mean, even the captured WHO doesn't like Remdesivir.  Perhaps Gilead didn't toss enough into the WHO's kitty in the last few years, and this truth bomb is the result?

    I agree Arthur - it sure does look like the censorship is abating, at least to some degree.  Perhaps Google/Twitter/Facebook have figured out that they might actually be liable for hundreds of thousands of deaths by suppressing factual, scientific information about treatments that work at the behest of Vax Manufacturers and their captured "health" agencies?

    Can you imagine a lawsuit that takes all the studies that FLCCC has on the various treatments, Chris's matrix (no harm + possible benefit), and then add in Youtube censorship => led directly to the deaths of a lot of people.  "We relied on NIH" - even though its clear remdesivir has no benefit, but has some severe side effects.  The jury gets to effectively decide if "relying on information from a captured regulator" is good enough to protect the company from liability.

    https://twitter.com/chrismartenson/status/1438688682672803842

    The lawsuits against Google and YouTube should be numerous and legendary. They ought to be held accountable for any harm they caused by preventing the dissemination of lifesaving early treatment information. No class actions - a flood of individual lawsuits, one by one.
    Perhaps the corporate attorneys at these companies are starting to get concerned about exposure?  Alongside the possibility: "gosh, what happens if we were wrong, and a few hundred thousand people really did die because of what we did?"

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 2:31am

    #28
    ian.k

    ian.k

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    2

    Ivermectin

    What more evidence do you need than the 3 graphs in this article.

    http://www.tathasta.com/2021/09/horowitz-heavily-vaccinated-state.html

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 2:43am

    Pipyman

    Pipyman

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    4

    Yeah

    And we have about 80 papers supporting IVM, not gummy bears.

    I submit your logic doesn’t make any sense. Chris has reviewed the evidence many times.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 3:03am

    Scott Vanderhoef

    Scott Vanderhoef

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    Scott Vanderhoef said:

    Just follow the money.  No profits to be made and if ivermectin is proven a reliable treatment, then the vaccine push is out the window.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 4:08am

    #31
    You've been Nudged...!

    You've been Nudged...!

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    6

    The million-dollar question....

    If you take away all other effective treatments & preventatives, then the victim (sorry, patient) is nudged towards the 'V-bomb solution' as the only option (which is looking less 'safe & effective' by the day...).

    Is it just simple racketeering by the medical mafia, and state power-mongering? Or something more insidious? That's the million-dollar question....

    I quote Kamran Abbasi from the BMJ last year:
    "Science is being suppressed for political and financial gain. Covid-19 has unleashed state corruption on a grand scale, and it is harmful to public health. Politicians and industry are responsible for this opportunistic embezzlement. So too are scientists and health experts. The pandemic has revealed how the medical-political complex can be manipulated in an emergency—a time when it is even more important to safeguard science."

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 4:13am

    #32
    helmadi

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    Betadine's turn to get attacked by MSM after it was added to FLCCC's early treatment protocol

    https://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/betadine-nasal-spray-mouthwash-covid

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 5:24am

    #33
    CC.Cecil

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    CC.Cecil said:

    Google translate text from Swedish mainstrem (left) news SVT:
    Umeå research shows: Overweight and untrained respond less well to covid vaccine
    UPDATED 9 SEPTEMBER 2021Published 9 SEPTEMBER 2021
    Research has shown that overweight people are overrepresented among those hardest hit by covid-19. Now a new compilation made by researchers at Umeå University shows that obesity and unhealthy living can also reduce the effect of covid vaccines.
    - Vaccination is about forming more antibodies against the virus, but if you are overweight, inactive and especially older, it looks like you respond less to the vaccine. If you lose weight, you seem to respond better to the vaccine, says Michael Svensson, researcher at Sports Medicine at Umeå University.

    Five researchers at Umeå University have compiled over 318 research reports on the Sars-Cov-2 virus and now their so-called review has been published in the scientific journal Sports. The results confirm much of what has already been seen.

    Many diseases linked to obesity
    Abdominal obesity and too little physical activity is a major risk factor that can lead to intensive care and increased mortality.

    - The research that exists in the world shows that the risk factors for suffering from life-threatening covid are actually common risk factors for other diseases. Such as type 2 diabetes, cardiovascular disease. Those diseases are more or less linked to abdominal obesity and physical inactivity, says Michael Svensson.

    In the video, you hear Michael Svensson explain why physical exercise is so important in reducing the risk of being hit hard by Covid-19.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 6:27am

    #34
    d4

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    d4 said:

    either too many people have caught up to the bs and they're letting the leash a little loose
    or the plan was a success and they no longer care

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 7:19am

    #35
    JoshuaGreen

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    JoshuaGreen said:

    @Mark_BC, you're under no obligation to do my work for me.  However, I did ask if Chris had reviewed the Ivermectin evidence with the same critical eye that he's reviewed everything else, and you implied that he had.  As these videos only focus on safety, I merely asked you to prove that claim.  Maybe that analysis has been limited to his subscriber-only posts; at any rate, I don't recall seeing it mentioned in the materials I have access to.  I hadn't heard of flccc.net, but I'll check them out, so thanks for that reference.  I did notice this blurb on their page, the gist of which I agree with:

    The FLCCC Alliance has always maintained that our protocols are a bridge to vaccines and a safety net for those who cannot or have not been vaccinated or are vaccinated and have concerns regarding declining protection against emerging variants. Vaccines have shown efficacy in preventing the most severe outcomes of COVID-19 and are an important part of a multi-modal strategy that must also include early treatment. The decision to get a vaccine should be made in consultation with your health care provider.

    @Pipyman, Chris stipulated the following: "It's very clear that the only logical choice based on the safety alone, even leaving aside efficacy, is you would give it."  (Emphasis [arguably] added.)  That's the position I'm challenging, and he did say that "If anybody can argue against this decision matrix, [he'd] be very interested to hear that."  I'm not really arguing against the matrix per se, but I disagree that it's sufficient by itself to drive policy.

    @ian.k, there have been lots of graphs throughout this pandemic.  I remember when everything started looking better as vaccination spread out here, and the graphs at the time supported that notion.  Maybe Delta has changed things, or maybe those were nonsense for some other reason; my point is that confounders are everywhere.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 8:27am

    #36
    gbell12

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    Posts: 36

    2

    Bad study

    A "novel combination therapy" with zinc, doxy, ivermectin, vit d, and vit c, doesn't show that ivermectin works - it shows that one or more of those things, or all of them together, works. Chris knows this, so why represent it as good evidence?

    Here's a quadruple board certified ICU MD and Dr Rhonda Patrick debunking EVERYTHING Chris has been pimping for the past month:





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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 8:38am

    #37
    HurricaneRider

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    HurricaneRider said:

    re JoshuaGreen @17, Pascal's wager applies to cases for which we have no data and have no prospect of getting more -- in the original case say, for an afterlife.  In the case of ivermectin, we have much more to go on: a proposed chemical mechanism, in vitro studies, etc.  This leads to a hypothesis, or as Feynman said, a guess, which is almost never randomly selected.  Here, let him explain it.





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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 8:41am

    HurricaneRider

    HurricaneRider

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    5

    HurricaneRider said:

    Holy cats, here we are 13 hours  after Chris posted the video and it's  still up.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 9:15am

    #39
    JoshuaGreen

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    JoshuaGreen said:

    @HurricaneRider, you're not wrong, but it was Chris who stipulated that we should be administering Ivermectin based solely on its safety profile, "even leaving aside efficacy."  I'm just playing by his rules.  If he wants to seriously discuss the evidence then I'm all for it.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 9:37am

    Tyler Kuhn

    Tyler Kuhn

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    Tyler Kuhn said:

    Hi Joshua,

    Chris has reviewed a lot of studies regarding ivermectin. This video is a quick simplified video, probably to address the whole horse de-wormer meme going about.

    I would share the links regarding the ivermectin studies but there have been so many. It would take some time to search and find.

    I think Chris has been mentioning ivermectin since last August or so.

    FYI

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 9:45am

    Mike from Jersey

    Mike from Jersey

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    Posts: 1211

    4

    Replying to JoshuaGreen said: (#39)

    Joshua,

    Actually, Chris has been reviewing the studies and evidence for months now.

    You might go to the main page and look back on the topics covered in previous podcasts. I have no idea how many times Chris has reviewed the evidence but it has been pretty thorough.

    In any event, you can find links to those prior podcasts and there is a pretty substantial amount of information about it.

    I, myself, have mixed feelings about Ivermectin. I have a prophylactic prescription for it. My doctor told me "it is not a miracle drug, but it works." On the other hand, I have seen a number of people on this site say that they got a bad infection despite Ivermectin. I think that Robert Malone's position on the drug sums it up the best. Ivermectin is useful but it will not stop the pandemic on its own.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 9:49am

    #42
    JoshuaGreen

    JoshuaGreen

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    0

    JoshuaGreen said:

    @Tyler Kuhn, yes, there are lots of reported results, and lots of responses to those, and lots of responses to those, and so on.  The fccc.net link provided above looks interesting, so I'm starting there.  My gripe against this video is that it started well but then skipped over the most relevant question.  Yes, the video did a good job of knocking down the "horse dewormer" strawman, and I was happy to see that.  (I've made the same point in other venues, though admittedly not as eloquently.)  However, he completely punted on the question of "does it work," suggesting efficacy is irrelevant given the safety profile.  I don't think that's a valid position in general.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 9:59am

    JoshuaGreen

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    JoshuaGreen said:

    @Mike from Jersey, I did a quick search for "ivermectin" in the above search bar.  Other than the "Definitive Ivermectin Toxicity Review" I didn't see anything other than forum topics going back through April.  Maybe the search is screwed up, maybe he's discussed it in materials that aren't available to me, or maybe I need to search in some other way.  I think we can all agree that videos are hard to search.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 10:08am

    Mike from Jersey

    Mike from Jersey

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    4

    Replying to JoshuaGreen said: (#45)

    The search really doesn't work all that well. I think to find the topic in a search, each podcast would have to include meta-tags which would be findable by the search engine. I am pretty sure there are no meta-tags and that is why they are not showing up. But those podcasts are there for sure. I have watched them.

    To find the podcasts discussing the medical evidence on Ivermectin, go to the front page, go to the section entitled "blog." Then click the "more" button. It will take you to a page listing all the back podcasts. You then have to look at the titles and open individual podcasts. It is hit and miss since the podcast title may or may not tell you the specifics of what is being addressed in the podcast.

    Now, that is very cumbersome for sure. I have had occasions where I could not find prior information that I had seen with my own eyes. Perhaps when the sites is redone there will be meta-tags attached to the podcasts making the search easier and more productive. But the issue has been addressed a number of times, including interviews with people about the drug.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 10:25am

    Rector

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 07 2010

    Posts: 411

    12

    Americans Are Not Going Into Camps; Not Manageable

    I have this belief that the American people - for a variety of reasons - will NEVER be imprisoned in camps or controlled by the technocracy.  Here's why:

    1.  We are the most independent minded people on the planet - for good or bad - Americans are used to being able to do whatever the hell they want to do.  This is reflected across many ethnic and cultural groups in the US.  There is a huge contingent of MAGA people who are highly oppositional to government.  The inner cities of the USA are ungovernable - attempts to tighten the screws will only make this worse.  The rural communities are too dispersed to effectively monitor and control.

    2.  The people have such an entitlement mindset that they will riot and resist if you take away their creature comforts.  Brave New World is definitely the preferred model for Americans - not 1984.  They might get people to go to camps as long as they provide unlimited snacks, Xanax, marijuana, porn and Netflix.  Otherwise, forget it.

    3.  We don't obey worth a shit.  Highest levels of incarceration, illegal border crossings, etc.  Only the suburban white kindergarten mommy crowd will behave as they are instructed.  Have you been to a public high school classroom lately?  Who saw the video of the mask mandate fist fight at the hostess station in NY yesterday?

    4.  We are armed to the teeth and programmed for violence.  Once this pandora's box is opened - the bloodletting will be epic.  I shudder to think of it.

    5.  The government is incompetent and too small to enforce anything.  This nation is HUGE both geographically and in terms of population.  Unmanageable from a military or police perspective.  The entire US military couldn't keep a lid on California.

    6.  All the techno whiz bullshit which is supposed to keep the population in line and the overlords informed needs electricity to work.  If there is no electricity - there is no internet.  If there is no internet - there is no control grid.  Ditto for data infrastructure.  This is a huge vulnerability which is not correctable or defendable.

    This is why they will just kill us off instead.  Australians are good little drones - they do what the government tells them.  Americans?  Not so much.  An incorrigible lot.

    Rector

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 11:05am

    JoshuaGreen

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    JoshuaGreen said:

    @Mike from Jersey, I tried searching through the blurbs for blog posts back through August and into July.  Only a few of the blurbs mention Ivermectin at all, and none of them suggest that evidence is being analyzed and scrutinized in the video.  I guess I may have to go back further, but at some point I feel it's on those claiming that such analysis exists to point to it.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 11:14am

    Kathy

    Kathy

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    Posts: 540

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    Kathy said:

    Add to your list that many of the government workers have bought into the fear porn and are terrified to leave their homes.  You can’t set up fema camps over a zoom call.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 11:15am

    Mike from Jersey

    Mike from Jersey

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    2

    Replying to JoshuaGreen said: (#49)

    Joshua,

    The podcasts are there. Reading the blurbs won't find them. You have to watch the videos themselves. That is admittedly not a good solution and hopefully in the future the podcasts will be indexed to the search engine with meta-tags.

    But those podcasts are there. I have watched those podcasts myself.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 11:29am

    Canuck21

    Canuck21

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    Canuck21 said:

    Joshua, the evidence about Ivermectin has been discussed in great detail on this site for a year now. I joined at the same time as you did and I have certainly seen it extensively. I do not agree that Chris has any obligation to summarize it yet again now, especially given that you have had ample opportunity to see it for yourself.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 11:33am

    Mark_BC

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2010

    Posts: 577

    2

    Mark_BC said:

    I believe there are two issues hindering your searches:

    1. The censorship against IVM over the last year has been extreme. For many months you weren't even allowed to mention it on Youtube or the speech analyzers would flag and delete the video, never mind spelling it out in words. It just was not allowed. This seems to be relaxing now for some reason. This probably explains why you are having a hard time searching for it since it was discussed within videos without actually directly mentioning it.
    2. It has been well discussed that this site does not have good search and archive functions due to it being constructed quickly around the WordPress platform in the not too distant past. A new website is being developed.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 11:37am

    #51

    Mark_BC

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    Joined: Apr 30 2010

    Posts: 577

    1

    Mark_BC said:

    I believe there are two reasons you are having difficulty accessing the info:

    1. Youtube censorship has been extreme. You could not say the word in the videos or the speech analyzers would flag and delete the video. Obviously the word could not be typed or displayed in the videos. So the topic was discussed discretely within videos using code-words without directly mentioning it.
    2. This site has poor search and archive functions due to being quickly build on the WordPress platform. A new site is being developed.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 11:44am

    Jim H

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    Posts: 1617

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    Thanks for the laugh Kathy : )

    You can’t set up fema camps over a zoom call.

    Indeed.  I love this place.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 12:02pm

    richcabot

    richcabot

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    Joshua, Look at post #28 in this thread.

    #28 posted the link to an article which compares two states in India.

    Uttar Pradesh:

    largest state of 240 million people
    roughly 20 cases a day
    193 active cases — 33% with one dose of vaccine (and near zero when cases were going down in the spring)
    universal ivermectin use

    Kerala:

    33 million people
    65% of all current cases in India
    186,000 active cases
    67% with at least one vaccine
    banned ivermectin

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 12:03pm

    #54
    Netlej

    Netlej

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    Joined: Dec 09 2020

    Posts: 355

    1

    Dr McCullough how vaccines are supporting Deltas dominants.

    Really good Vid although you can skip the first bit as we have all heard it before. He goes into great detail about natural immunity, the current assortment of jab, VERS, and more.

    For some reason the vid won't post. It is on rumble.
    Dr Peter McCullough lecture on the State of COVID treatment.
     

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 12:12pm

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1617

    9

    Building on RichCabot's post.. Uttar Pradesh region of India

    Uttar Pradesh (vs Kerala) provides us the most powerful population-level dataset for comparing the potential of the Vax to wipe out, or at least control Covid-19, vs. early treatment cocktail.  One important note regarding this data is that Uttar Pradesh doesn't just treat early... theirs is a hybrid plan that throws early treatment/prophylaxis at entire families once a case pops up.  This is part of the secret sauce of Uttar Pradesh.  I am thinking I should start a thread on just this... but for now, I wanted to post the original source of the data analysis, JChamie on twitter - He is closely associated with FLCCC I think;

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 12:18pm

    David Cunha

    David Cunha

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    Joined: Aug 25 2021

    Posts: 34

    1

    Dr McCullough how vaccines are supporting Deltas dominants.

    video not found please reupload the link. Thank you

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 12:33pm

    #57

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1617

    6

    The very latest from Uttar Pradesh...

    With 240 million people, Uttar Pradesh is 2/3 the size of the entire USA.  Here is what "winning" against the virus looks like;

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/no-fresh-covid-cases-in-up-s-59-districts-australian-mp-praises-yogi-govt-101631606229422.html

    The number of daily cases of coronavirus disease (Covid-19) have been on a downswing in Uttar Pradesh. In the last 24 hours, no new case was identified in 59 of the state's 75 districts, according to UP a government release.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 12:39pm

    skywolf

    skywolf

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    Uttar vs Kerala

    I think also Kerala is urban, UP is rural, so that would also be a factor....

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 12:45pm

    #59
    Island girl

    Island girl

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    Joined: Nov 27 2017

    Posts: 263

    2

    Public health in El Salvador: Free Early treatment

    https://www.instagram.com/tv/CT6zQPijDDz/

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 1:04pm

    Nuria Agullo

    Nuria Agullo

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    Nuria Agullo said:

    No, actually. Uttar Pradesh and Kerala are Indian states, with urban and rural areas.  Uttar Pradesh is the most populated state in India (MUCH larger than Kerala), and contains large cities such as Lucknow, Agra and Varanasi (all with well over one million inhabitants)

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 1:12pm

    skywolf

    skywolf

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    Posts: 68

    2

    skywolf said:

    Nuria, thanks for the clarification!

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 1:14pm

    #62
    Dontknownothin

    Dontknownothin

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Mar 14 2020

    Posts: 592

    4

    Horse dewormer for humans in Spain.

    Spain must not have gotten the Ivermectin email. Waaaay off script with THIS approval.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 1:21pm

    #63
    Netlej

    Netlej

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    Joined: Dec 09 2020

    Posts: 355

    9

    Dr Peter McCullough lecture on the State of COVID treatment.




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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 1:26pm

    #64
    terafera

    terafera

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    Joined: May 20 2021

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    5

    terafera said:

    Thanks for this video Chris, but I wish you would've spent a couple minutes on the effectiveness side of the issue. I would love a short, concise and compelling video such as this to share with my friends that listen to NPR all day and believe the horse dewormer story. I think it would be more compelling with a little blurb with the covid map of Africa that you have used before or a few other tidbits to combine the effectiveness with the safety. Just my thoughts

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 1:36pm

    Canuck21

    Canuck21

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    0

    Spain - IVM OTC

    Ivermectin has been available OTC in Spain for a while.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 1:58pm

    #66
    Koi Phish

    Koi Phish

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    Maybe we need the whole story about how pesticides win over pharma for a decade, for river blindness cures/methods.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043740/

    This article really shows how our pharma does not work for global public health diseases (in regions outside of US) or research.  Another interesting point is that animals other than mice and rats where needed for research to grow the parasites in amervectin testing to adult size. Yet primates where not considered ethical methods. Using the humans suffering form river blindness was not possible either!  Then live stock was a funding path!  What a system of twisted ethics!  Americans want their meat!

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 2:05pm

    #67

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1617

    12

    Thoughts on the effectiveness of Ivermectin

    Against the simplistic aphorisms of the current day, narrative-controlled scientism, real science sometimes gets messy.  That can cause the story of Ivermectin to seem, "weak".. but that is not true at all... we are just learning a bit as we go.  I subscribe to the same view that Adam Gaertner (and FLCCC/Kory) have espoused that we just needed to adjust the dosing in the face of Delta.  This was maybe a hard lesson for some who were using the 0.2 mg/kg dosing as treatment or prophylaxis.. but again, that doesn't mean Ivermectin does not work.  Those cultists practicing anti-Ivermectin scientism will always look to exploit any weakness, real of perceived, in the Ivermectin story.  Those interested in the real science of early treatment accept that not knowing everything doesn't mean we are wrong;

     

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 2:31pm

    #68
    kunga

    kunga

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    Joined: Feb 26 2017

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    1

    OOP post vax damage/ prophelactics

    Sorry to step on this thread, but my system is denying entrance, 404 error page not found, to the vaxx damage thread.  I wanted to comment on the mushroom prophylaxis mentioned in a recent, out of place post.

    Early on, Clif High recognized there was a piece of the spike coded for HIV.  His reccomend was Chaga mushroom.  I think Stimets (sp) mushroom company is wonderful.  However, they grow their Chaga in medium, straw?, I think.  The Chaga grown naturally on Birch trees is suppose to be better.  I found an upperMidwest source on the net.  Taken as daily tea.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 3:11pm

    Marsha Cummings

    Marsha Cummings

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    Marsha Cummings said:

    This is such an important video! I'm sorry it was recorded in a church, as that will turn a lot of people off, but I feel it's worth trying to get it out there. How can I share the link? Thank you!

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 3:21pm

    Disco Bear

    Disco Bear

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    Joined: Dec 16 2020

    Posts: 200

    1

    link to Dr Peter McCullough lecture

    Marsha Cummings,  here's the link to Dr. McCullough's video

    https://rumble.com/vlu6gg-dr.-peter-mccullough-speaks-the-non-falsi-science-on-covid-to-a-church.html

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 3:43pm

    #71

    thc0655

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 27 2010

    Posts: 2741

    21

    Dihydrogen monoxide

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 4:36pm

    JoshuaGreen

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    JoshuaGreen said:

    @richcabot, yes, I saw that post.  The video that @gbell12 posted in #36 dismisses such plots rather cleanly.  That doesn't mean that there's nothing there, just that what's shown isn't really reason to be sure.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 4:45pm

    JoshuaGreen

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    JoshuaGreen said:

    @Canuck21 (and @Mike from Jersey), you may be right, but so far I've seen him repeatedly toss up fairly weak evidence of Ivermectin effectiveness while doing everything he can to refute what others consider strong evidence of vaccine effectiveness and safety.  It's this dichotomy that I've found hard to swallow.  It's not on you to point me to his arguments, but I kind of figure it's on him, and he shouldn't have a hard time providing links to the relevant previous videos.  That the blurbs (apparently) don't contain the relevant information is entirely on him.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 5:10pm

    JoshuaGreen

    JoshuaGreen

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    JoshuaGreen said:

    I look forward to better search functionality, but clearly Chris felt safe in mentioning Ivermectin in this video and the previous one on its toxicity, so I'm not sure how much weight I can really put on your first point.  Regardless, any such "hiding" was entirely Chris's choice, and you're asking me to take it on faith that careful analysis exists even though you admit that I can't find it and you can't point me to it.  That's a rather strange request in general, but I invite Chris to clear this up by pointing to the most relevant videos.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 5:22pm

    Arthur Robey

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1468

    1

    What's your Model, Josh?

    Please contribute to the discussion Josh. What is your model of Reality?

    I'm curious. Does the CIA conspire? Do the Chinese? The Russians? The British? In fact, every military organization on the planet.

    What evidence can you bring to bear on whether we are or are not the subject of an alien invasion?

    What are your ideals and how do you think we can achieve them?

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 5:49pm

    #76
    bethanyrose

    bethanyrose

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    Joined: May 09 2020

    Posts: 3

    2

    Petition feedback

    So I was reading the constitution this morning. Our founding fathers gave us the right to petition in the first amendment for a reason. Yes, its not legal action. But it can raise awareness, win hearts and minds and put visibility to the corruption. I'm soliciting feedback from trusted sources before I share more broadly. I limited it to a few key actions and really tried to write it in a way that will not galvanize either side of the debate. I'm tired of getting frustrated with the lack of action and I'm tired of listening to people point fingers... This is my attempt to take action and take a shot in the dark. Who knows? If it changes the mind of 10 people, that's something. Maybe it can change the mind of more and perhaps bring folks together.

    Feedback please? Am I missing any key studies?

    https://chng.it/Sc2kZNMJbw

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 5:57pm

    drbrucedale

    drbrucedale

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    Joined: Sep 06 2009

    Posts: 162

    17

    Please do your own homework, Joshua

    Hi Joshua:

    In this group, we expect people to do their own homework.  So if you are willing to spend 5 minutes (as I have just done) you will come up with very strong data in support of ivermectin's efficacy against Covid. For instance,

    https://ivmmeta.com/

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8088823/

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8248252/

    There are many, many more such papers and reports.

    You do not have to be convinced by these data, but please do your homework first before you criticize Chris' opinions on IVM. Examine the data and tell us why you are not convinced.

    Chris scouts information, summarizes it for us, and shows us both the data and explains his reasoning.  Please do the same if you disagree. Do your homework.

    Bruce

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 5:58pm

    Kat43

    Kat43

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    Joined: Feb 10 2020

    Posts: 686

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    Kat43 said:

    Joshua, given you have been a member for so long, I find you beyond tiresome.  The forum search engine sucks.  Nonexistent as far as I'm concerned.  Which is why I have kept up with the podcasts and posts on the forum.  You could have too.  Chris doesn't owe you anything.  Neither do we.  But here's a bone for you.  An article describing the great many likely modes of action of ivermectin against Covid.  Pretty sure there is no comparable article for gummy bears.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41429-021-00430-5

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 5:58pm

    Arthur Robey

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1468

    2

    Reply to Bethany

    At the risk of boring veteran members, allow me an analogy.

    Baboons are the staple of leopards. Usually the baboons voice their disapproval. But on occasion the baboons are deathly quite. Those are the moments that the leopard dreads, for she is about to be torn limb from limb.

    Perhaps this line from "The awakened Saxon" speaks to you.

    Their voices were even and low.
    Their eyes were level and straight.
    There was neither sign nor show
    When the Saxon began to hate.

    It was not preached to the crowd.
    It was not taught by the state.
    No man spoke it aloud
    When the Saxon began to hate.

    This is not an Ideal. This is a warning.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 6:19pm

    Kathy

    Kathy

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    Joined: Feb 21 2020

    Posts: 540

    11

    Kathy said:

    As far as I know there are not studies on the effectiveness of Tylenol on Covid.  But if I am running a fever because of Covid tylenol is worth a try.  All I ask is I have the freedom to do the same with ivermectin.

    All of this could be solved by making ivermectin OTC.  While states are making marijuana legal, why on earth does the WHO, CDC, FDA, NIH and HHS care if I want to give ivermectin a try to keep my post vaccine side effects or Covid case mild?

    Similarly if I have natural immunity why do they want me to get vaccinated?  And will they start pushing adults to get varicella vaccines?  Six month ago I would have said that was stupid, they would never do that but now I’m not so sure.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 6:38pm

    firegarden

    firegarden

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    Joined: Sep 18 2021

    Posts: 10

    6

    firegarden said:

    Doctors from clinics all over the world just finished the 1st International COVID summit in Italy Sept 14-15. https://www.internationalcovidsummit.com/ As to it's efficacy, how much antidotal evidence does the world need to START treating people before is too damn late!!!

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 6:38pm

    #82

    Arthur Robey

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1468

    6

    No entry for “vaccinated” people

    Put this sign up on your business window and increase your profits.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 7:09pm

    #83
    JoshuaGreen

    JoshuaGreen

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    Joined: Jul 09 2020

    Posts: 42

    1

    JoshuaGreen said:

    If you look through my posts here, you'll see that I didn't begin by demanding anything of this community.  All I did was criticize Chris's presentation here, noting that he seemed to be arguing that the safety profile of Ivermectin was sufficient reason to prescribe it for COVID.  I disagree with that, as I feel that efficacy absolutely has to be part of that equation, and he omitted any serious discussion of that from this video or (I think) his previous video (on Ivermectin toxicity).

    In response to the above, many of you have asserted that Chris has discussed efficacy.  I don't see that he has recently, and the search functionality on this site makes it impossible to find such discussions.  Therefore, I reasonably asked those of you making that assertion to provide a link.  So far, none of you have, nor has Chris.

    Instead, many of you have posted what you consider strong evidence of Ivermectin efficacy.  It's easy to find such articles; it's also easy to find responses to them.  The Ivermectin section of the video in #36 does a good job of challenging many of these claims.  It wasn't that I wanted any evidence; it was that I wanted the best evidence carefully scrutinized.  Chris makes a point of digging into the evidence for, e.g., vaccines, and I was hoping to see the same analysis of the various Ivermectin claims.  His censored video ended with a simple graph and no analysis other than sarcastic comments, and that certainly didn't give the impression that he has carefully considered these claims, applying the same skepticism that he's applied to the vaccines.  Plenty of others have carefully considered the evidence for Ivermectin efficacy against COVID and come away unimpressed.

    None of you owe me anything, and if you find me tiresome then by all means feel free to ignore my posts.  Just don't pretend that Chris has made a strong case in this video.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 7:23pm

    JoshuaGreen

    JoshuaGreen

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jul 09 2020

    Posts: 42

    0

    JoshuaGreen said:

    In this group, we expect people to do their own homework. So if you are willing to spend 5 minutes (as I have just done) you will come up with very strong data in support of ivermectin's efficacy against Covid. For instance,

    https://ivmmeta.com/

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8088823/

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8248252/

    There are many, many more such papers and reports.

    You do not have to be convinced by these data, but please do your homework first before you criticize Chris' opinions on IVM. Examine the data and tell us why you are not convinced.

    I agree that with 5 minutes one can find articles claiming evidence of efficacy; one can similarly find articles noting the flaws in many of those arguments (e.g., see #36).  Dumping them on me and demanding that I refute all of them is fundamentally a Gish gallop, not exactly fair.  The strongest evidence should withstand scrutiny and suffice on its own.  That's what I've been asking for -- not any evidence, but the best evidence, analyzed thoroughly and honestly by Chris.  That's not in this video, nor in his previous video, nor in anything that anyone has referred me to.

    I'll note that initially I only criticized Chris's "decision matrix," and it was the assertions that Chris has discussed evidence of efficacy that led me to ask "OK, where?"

    Chris scouts information, summarizes it for us, and shows us both the data and explains his reasoning. Please do the same if you disagree. Do your homework.

    With respect to Ivermectin efficacy, I'm going to object with "facts not in evidence."  Chris seems to believe that Ivermectin is effective against COVID.  Is that belief well-founded?  Maybe, but he hasn't presented the basis for that belief here, and others who have looked at the various studies have come away unconvinced and have raised significant objections.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 7:34pm

    #85
    ian.k

    ian.k

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    2

    Comment 36

    I thought the video presented in comment 36 was really thought provoking although she lost me with her skepticism about Ivermectin. Apart from that they were really convincing about getting the vaccine IMHO. I would love to hear Chris debating with one or both of these two

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 7:51pm

    #86
    richard ward

    richard ward

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    You have to admit

    You have to admit some of these were pretty funny

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 7:53pm

    Netlej

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    Josh -how about vaccine efficacy

    Joshua - Do you go around to other websites and argue the efficacy of the experimental mRNA injections they are calling vaccines?

    The vaccines have directly killed tens of thousands maybe a whole lot more. Many of those killed had statistically no risk of mortality from C-19.

    Ivermectin has been documented to have saved countless millions and not one death due directly to ivermectin. It is safer than aspirin and more effective than the JABs.

    Since you are incapable of understand all of this it seems clear that your job here is to spread ignorance. But I suppose everyone needs to make a living.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 8:11pm

    Artbar

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    Artbar said:

    The recent Biden statement the government will withold Monoclonal antibodies from red and Southern states is reprehensible. maybe Tue beginning g of killing us off, although some believe the "jab" is actually a form of population control, the limiting of Monoclonal antibodies to states with Democratic governors seems to me to be a death sentence to Republican states. Even the fully vaccinated have breakthrough cases of Covid.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 8:19pm

    JoshuaGreen

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    JoshuaGreen said:

    Joshua - Do you go around to other websites and argue the efficacy of the experimental mRNA injections they are calling vaccines?

    There were studies demonstrating the effectiveness of the COVID vaccines, and they certainly looked good before Delta appeared.  Since then things seem less clear, but they still seem effective at preventing serious outcomes.  Also, given that the intent of these is to build immunity by simulating some aspects of the virus, I fail to see why these shouldn't be considered vaccines.  Yes, they're made differently than previous vaccines, but my cellular phone is made differently from previous phones and yet I still consider it a phone.

    The vaccines have directly killed tens of thousands maybe a whole lot more. Many of those killed had statistically no risk of mortality from C-19.

    You seem to be assuming that the deaths in the VAERS database can be directly linked to vaccine effects and that no one cares.  I don't know that either of those are true.  Moreover, I have a hard time understanding your latter comment.  The vaccines cause your body to create a small amount of a material similar to that which COVID would cause to be repeatedly created.  If the vaccine is really so dangerous for an individual, why wouldn't COVID be even worse for that same individual?

    Ivermectin has been documented to have saved countless millions and not one death due directly to ivermectin.

    Possibly true, but irrelevant.  It has saved lives by being used to treat various other infections, not COVID.  I'll stipulate that it's safe when used properly by those who it's prescribed for and effective against those infections, and I agree that those who argue otherwise are making a mistake (and I've pointed this out in other venues).  That doesn't imply that it's effective against COVID.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 8:22pm

    Phred

    Phred

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    5

    Best Evidence

    "Best Evidence" is subjective.  Individuals are unique and population response to a drug does not follow a gaussian distribution that gets narrower with more data.

    To me the best evidence is what seems to have worked for many, as opposed to the (easily manipulated) randomized control trial that uses a single drug at a specified dose and time.  When conventional medicine has failed, functional medicine has often had success using Pascal's wager with known safe drugs like ivermectin.

    Watch  Ivory Hecker's interview with Joseph Varon at a Houston hospital.  He has had great success treating Covid and was interviewed thousands of times by mainstream media for his secret.  His answer, a combination of drugs including ivermectin.  That didn't get reported until a brave journalist resigned rather to submit to censorship.

    This is the interview linked to from the FLCCC site, https://covid19criticalcare.com/




    But there is progress!  This August 26th piece mentions his use of  ivermectin and drug combinations.  To cover all the legal bases, it finishes with the usual FDA warnings.

    https://abc13.com/ivermectin-covid-treat-dr-joseph-varon-united-memorial-medical-center/10976044/

    The best evidence for me is that I could breathe again a few hours after taking ivermectin. But high up on my evidence is that Varon interview, along with Big Pharma's manic desire to prevent its use.

     

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 8:23pm

    JoshuaGreen

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    JoshuaGreen said:

    I think you ask a fair question here, but of course it strikes at a deeper issue.  Why are some drugs only available by prescription in the first place?  If that can be justified at all, and if requiring prescriptions for Ivermectin made sense before COVID, then the real question is if there's sufficient reason to make it OTC now.  Honestly, I'm not even sure what goes into such considerations.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 8:27pm

    JoshuaGreen

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    JoshuaGreen said:

    Also, I agree that those pushing vaccine mandates should give more weight to natural immunity, or at least give a clear explanation for why that's considered insufficient for our societal goals.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 8:39pm

    JoshuaGreen

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    JoshuaGreen said:

    Please contribute to the discussion Josh. What is your model of Reality?

    I'm curious. Does the CIA conspire? Do the Chinese? The Russians? The British? In fact, every military organization on the planet.

    What evidence can you bring to bear on whether we are or are not the subject of an alien invasion?

    What are your ideals and how do you think we can achieve them?

    My model of reality is that groups of large organizations aren't conspiring against us and that those who have carefully reviewed the evidence of IVM efficacy and found it lacking aren't lying.  Conspiracies exist, but how many players must be involved in artificially pushing down IVM if it really is as effective as the comments here claim?  I can't prove that we aren't subject to an alien invasion, but I also don't see anything for which that is the most likely explanation.

    As for ideals, I do agree with Chris on at least one thing.  Too many of the articles against IVM do indeed try to dismiss it as something like a horse dewormer.  I want to see that ended, with that side accepting that IVM is used successfully to treat human infections; they can then turn to a careful consideration of the alleged evidence.  Those who have done so have convinced me that there's no real reason to be confident in IVM's efficacy against COVID, but where I'm looking those arguments are outnumbered by those putting up absurd claims like "it's a medicine for animals and anyone considering using it is just stupid."  That's a terrible way to persuade people that you aren't trying to hide something from them.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 9:04pm

    JoshuaGreen

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    JoshuaGreen said:

    You're right, "best evidence" is subjective.  I'd be happy with Chris pointing out the evidence that he considers best, along with his (usual) deep analysis of it.

    To me the best evidence is what seems to have worked for many, as opposed to the (easily manipulated) randomized control trial that uses a single drug at a specified dose and time. When conventional medicine has failed, functional medicine has often had success using Pascal's wager with known safe drugs like ivermectin.

    I'm glad that people are getting good results. If someone wants to use IVM and has their doctor's approval and guidance, I say more power to them. However, that's different from saying that we should be recommending it as a society and making it part of our standard treatment plan; that requires a higher bar to be met.

    Joseph Varon's success is inspiring.  He admits that he throws the "kitchen sink" at his patients, and we don't know how his overall level of care and the nature of his particular patients compare to those of the areas that his results are compared against.  Maybe something in his protocol is particularly effective against patients that reach him and warrant that level of care.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 9:33pm

    richcabot

    richcabot

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    lots of counter information in prior videos

    This is a tough video to watch.  20 minutes into it (it's over 2 hours long) I'm already astonished at the distortions.  Dr Seheult asserted that the VAERS system data is just whatever anybody chooses to type in.  In fact the majority of the entries are from physicians and other health care professionals.  He asserted that the multiple entries on the death certificates are because covid causes death in a variety of ways.  In fact, the reporting instructions issued by Feds require covid to be listed first if the patient tests positive for covid or if s/he has exhibits any symptoms of covid infection.   There is also a strong financial incentive for biased reporting since the hospital receives additional payment from Federal funds for any covid patients they treat.

    Chris analyzed the Israeli paper cited early in your video.  There were several holes in it which biased the results.  His analysis can be found in one of his previous videos.

    An additional confounding factor has recently been uncovered.  When someone presents less than 14 days from the date of their final vaccine shot they are classified as unvaccinated.  They are not reclassified when 14 days pass.  Since most vaccine complications occur within a few days of the jab the effect is three fold: vaccine side effects are not identified, number of unvaccinated patients is increased relative to vaccinated patients, if they die the number of unvaccinated covid deaths is increased.

    I don't think I can spare the time required to watch this the rest of the way.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 9:47pm

    firegarden

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    firegarden said:

    Perhaps many of us in this community have grown loathsome of our bureaucracies  comprised of experts and politicians where obfuscation are their specialties. More times than not, seemingly complex problems can be mitigated with simple strategies. Having witnessed a near complete dismissal of evidence based let alone rudimentary medicine is terrifying!

    From the outset, decades old peer reviewed papers surfaced showing significant efficacy of vitamin D's role in modulating immune response as it relates to respiratory viral infections. Zinc, food based ionophores, sleep hygiene, NAC, liposomal glutathione, beta glucans, etc., have proven themselves worthy of mention. Where are those guidelines coming from? The guidelines I've been listing to are nothing more than incredibly complex intervention strategies burped up from elite pricks suffering from a bad case of hubris or something more nefarious!

    Now we are looking down the barrels of inverse reality and damage control by those in charge. Vaccine, vaccine, more vaccine and Remdesivir is all these reprobates are clinging to! After eighteen months of a science fiction screen play Steven King couldn't have imagined continues to play out, most infected people are still instructed to go home until breathing difficulties ensue. Are we kidding? Are we taking our cues from those malfeasants who perpetuated this "we need large RDBPC studies" on all that's not vaccine or Remdesivir? And right in the heart of a shit storm they've created? All hands on deck! Any port in a storm! This is all they have left us. I'll take my educated chances with Ivermectin, doxycycline, nutraceuticals and even the gummie bears you mentioned.

    I'm quite sure the folks here do not have a beef with you personally. We are just tired with all the obfuscations, out right lies, deception, shaming and get in line orders coming from the top. And most of all, we are tired of watching loved ones and friends dying or becoming disabled due to illness or "vaccine".

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 9:52pm

    #97
    Chris Martenson

    Chris Martenson

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    Re: Ivermectin Effectiveness

    While I fundamentally disagree with the idea that an extremely safe drug with early positive observational signals has to have a bevy of RCT's before it can be used or recommended (clearly neither of which applied to Remdesivir nor convalescent plasma) I'm happy to discuss my reasons for believing it has a strong-enough positive signal to vigorously endorse and recommend.

    I was unable to put any discussion of treatments on Youtube as even covering papers proved to be sufficient to get me banned.  It happened twice.

    So I put my best efforts over here on the website and behind the paywall because I didn't want Google's prying eyes anywhere near my better work.

    Back there you will find an excellent interview with Pierre Kory where he covers the totality of the evidence.

    We have:

    1) Powerful observational data from doctors who have collectively treated tens of thousands of early, mid and severe Covid patients with spectacular results.

    2) We have country-level epidemiological data even including huge real-world experiments where a country (e.g. Peru) would go on IVM then off due to political pressures, then back on againw ith cases and deaths tracking with an ~1 week lag.  See also Uttar Pradesh, Mexico City, parts of Brazil, etc.

    3) Both RCT and prospective and retrospective clinical trials numbering in the dozens with the overwhelming majority of them showing very positive results.

    4) Meta-analyses combining all the studies in 3 above showing exceptionally positive benefits.

    5) My own anecdotal experiences which now number in the many dozens.  Exactly zero of the people I have tracked closely through their use of IVM upon first symptom onset have progressed to the hospital.  There was one member here (Steve) who reported not having that experience and going to the hospital despite IVM use.  So including his experience then my results pretty closely track the studies that say "IVM is pretty darned good, but not perfect."

    It's really rather blindingly obvious the stuff works.

     

     

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 10:07pm

    #98
    davefairtex

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    best evidence: meta analysis

    Josh-

    You're about 12 months late to the party.  You haven't seen the story evolve the same way we have.  But that's ok.  Better late than never.

    Highest standard is a meta analysis.  There are two of them.   First: Kory et al:

    https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/fulltext/2021/06000/review_of_the_emerging_evidence_demonstrating_the.4.aspx

    And:

    https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/Fulltext/2021/08000/Ivermectin_for_Prevention_and_Treatment_of.7.aspx

    Hope that helps.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 10:36pm

    Ilyas Vahora

    Ilyas Vahora

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    Ilyas Vahora said:

    Is this the WXYZ fb post you are referring to?

    https://m.facebook.com/wxyzdetroit/photos/a.461583946134/10158207966696135/?type=3&source=48

     

    Thanks.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 10:46pm

    Phred

    Phred

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    5

    Why isn't ivermection over the counter in the USA?

    It is OTC in many countries. But US medicine likes to set the bar high, with prescriptions (that doctors are threatened for giving) to pharmacists (explicit banning for off-label use in major chains) to ag supply stores (get written proof it is for animals).

    Why such special sanctions against IVM?  When drug companies tried and failed to produce vaccines against AIDS and Lyme disease, out of desperation people started experimenting with it (yes even the horse paste) and many reported success. Books were written and available on Amazon.

    It is hard to find those stories anymore after massaging of the record by the Ministry of Truth.  Ivermectin is really really dangerous to big pharma vaccine profits.

    Next on the agenda is making supplements like C, NAC, D, flavenoids, zinc, melatonin prescription only.

    Personally I don't think they hate us. They just want the money.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 11:24pm

    DaveDD

    DaveDD

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    Interesting short video

    Even more interesting how one person can hijack this whole thread under the guise of “discussion”, while there isn’t actually any room for discussion. Positions have been taken, allegations are being made, data and analysis is being ignored.

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 11:24pm

    DanBC

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    DanBC said:

    Yes, J, you are tiresome and sounding insincere. The body of work that Chris has published and presented, OVER TIME, is the sauce. You ignore at your peril.

    If you don’t want to understand how and why Ivermectin works, that’s your problem, especially if you don’t want to put in the time and effort. Go ahead, trust big Pharma, and the health system. We see how they treat Covid patients.

    ”Oh, you have Covid? Go home and take Advil, and if your lips turn blue, give us a call, where we’ll fill you with useless Remdesivir and intubated you. Maybe you’ll live, maybe you won’t, but we still get paid”

    Or, you can educate yourself, instead of complaining, and expecting to be spoon fed by others. Yeah, I’m harsh, but plenty of others here with more patience than myself, have given you very good advice, yet, you whine and snivel.

    YMMV

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 11:28pm

    firegarden

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    firegarden said:

    If the vaccine is really so dangerous for an individual, why wouldn't COVID be even worse for that same individual?

    Point of entry. SARSCoV-2  enters through nasal mucosa and or ocular mucosa. Elicits immune system reaction via generation of T lymphocyte, plasma cells, Helper 1 and TH2, and even memory B cells. As to "vaccine", this first line of defense is mute. Besides the significance as to point of entry, no virus's I'm aware of contain PEG, 1,2-distearoyl-sn-glycero-3-phosphocholine and "other" non disclosed proprietary ingredients. The immunological response to these chemicals alone can have catastrophic effects. Now lets consider the vaccines mRNA genome which only partially resembles the original SAR Cov-2 spike genome. Modifications were made to prevent spike profusion away from the "injection site" and additional proteins were encoded to prevent the spikes from anchoring into cell receptors. This was an assurance given to us by the manufactures. The SALK institute and other publications beg to differ. Unintended adverse reactions?

     

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  • Sat, Sep 18, 2021 - 11:44pm

    davefairtex

    davefairtex

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    minimum energy

    Dave-

    I agree.  "Minimum energy for the hijackers."  I can't always bring myself to do this, but this time I did all right.  🙂  And I saved the link to Lawrie's analysis, so there's that too.

    Again.  Chris's analysis is - no harm will be caused by ivermectin, and if there is a benefit (which is indicated by the meta analyses), then NOT using ivermectin is one of those crimes against humanity.

    Can't imagine why the serial-felon-drug companies and the captured "health" regulators would have a problem with a cheap off-patent drug that (unexpectedly) works to help solve the pandemic they've been waiting a lifetime to create-and-then-treat.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 12:23am

    Arthur Robey

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    Dr Peter McCullough

    A Profound video. Thank you for posting.

    A Thrall, you say, Dr McCullough? How does a human enthrall a planet? He doesn't; he cannot.

    Further evidence of Mantid infiltration. (Ref: Dr. David Jacobs et al Kindle, Narrated).

    Know this. They are impotent against our Rage. Rage will break the Thrall.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 1:42am

    pgp

    pgp

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    Prostituting oneself for the youtube dollar....

    Yep prostituting one's self for the you-tube dollar. There was a time however when PP had more integrity.   I'm afraid its just turning into yet another "prepper" site where the effort to print the written word has been displaced by a lazier and more boring aural rhetoric of um's and ah's.

    I'm sure the establishment is feeling very proud of itself as yet another voice against the status-quo slides quietly into the pit of self-ostracism.

     

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 1:55am

    Arthur Robey

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    3

    Substance over form

    Some people think visually, some prefer the written word, some prefer haptic. I think visually. The best is a mix.

    It's all communication.

     

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 2:19am

    BigBlue

    BigBlue

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    Scientist who won Nobel prize for IVM doesn't claim it's effective against COVID

    From https://www.drew.edu/stories/2021/09/09/drew-university-nobel-prize-winner-refutes-ivermectin-meme/

    Dr. William Campbell, along with Satoshi Omura, won the 2015 Nobel Prize in Medicine for the discovery of ivermectin.

    Recently, a false quote attributed to him circulated on social media, claiming that ivermectin 'cures' COVID19.

    In response to that, Dr Campbell issued the following statement:

    “I utterly despise and deny the remarks attributed to me on social media on September 8, 2021,” he wrote. “I reject both the substance and the tone of the remarks, and resent their presentation as a direct quotation. The tweet in question was not concerned with science. I am a biologist with no claim to expertise in the clinical evaluation of drugs against viral infections. Thus, I have not taken a stand in support of, or against, the efficacy of ivermectin against COVID-19.”

    To the very fair questions JoshuaGreen is asking, another important one to add is:

    Is it risky for this community have such confident support for ivermectin's effectiveness against COVID19 when the co-discoverer of the drug isn't standing in support of it himself?

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 2:38am

    Arthur Robey

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    4

    Rats.

    Assume that the spike protein Is the disease and all becomes clear. (supported by studies on rats who were injected with the spike protein and not the virus. Proving that the virus is the Vector of the disease.)

    Now why would you accept an injection that promotes the production of spike protein?

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 3:05am

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

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    Posts: 1617

    11

    Joshua, Big Blue, and pgp...

    The conversation is really going off the deep end tonight.  Chris has done the deep dive to prove it's safe.  We have known for over a year that it works;

      https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32251768/

    Antiviral Res
    . 2020 Jun;178:104787. doi: 10.1016/j.antiviral.2020.104787. Epub 2020 Apr 3.

    The FDA-approved drug ivermectin inhibits the replication of SARS-CoV-2 in vitro

    Abstract
    Although several clinical trials are now underway to test possible therapies, the worldwide response to the COVID-19 outbreak has been largely limited to monitoring/containment. We report here that Ivermectin, an FDA-approved anti-parasitic previously shown to have broad-spectrum anti-viral activity in vitro, is an inhibitor of the causative virus (SARS-CoV-2), with a single addition to Vero-hSLAM cells 2 h post infection with SARS-CoV-2 able to effect ~5000-fold reduction in viral RNA at 48 h. Ivermectin therefore warrants further investigation for possible benefits in humans.

    So let's see if I can sum up the story;  We have 40 years of safety data saying that Ivermectin is among the most safe drugs available.  We have in-vitro data that says it shuts down viral RNA replication.  We have loads of positive clinical data using cocktails based on Ivermectin and RCT's, almost all of which point to positive efficacy, many pointing to extraordinary efficacy.  We have population level data within the country of India pointing out the stark contrast between the Ivermectin denying, heavily vaccinated Kerala and the much larger, lightly vaccinated Uttar Pradesh which has embraced early treatment and contact traced prophylaxis to THE NEAR ERADICATION of infection and death.  You guys attacking Chris and attacking a molecule (Ivermectin) just seem silly.

     

     

     

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 4:02am

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

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    to sum it up

    Worse case IVM does nothing..  It wont help you, wont harm you and doesnt cost but a few cents.   No reason to not try.

    Best case it helps, and still doesnt cost you or anyone much.

    This one is a no brainer.  But , what I dont get is why one doesnt not have a say in their own health care.  I get people are not informed, but if they are asking or requesting - they should be allowed after weighing the risks with their care provider.  I would take this even if someone told me it can kill me.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 4:03am

    davefairtex

    davefairtex

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    5

    trading, and risk/benefit

    I'm just gonna point you guys to those two meta-analysis, and you can decide for yourselves.  The drug is one of the safest ones out there, according to Chris-the-tox-guy.   That's the downside.  Upside is - ivermectin might be a fantastic treatment for COVID19.

    That's the risk/benefit calculation.  Some people have a hard time understanding risk/benefit.  But I'm a trader; we have to be comfortable with risk/benefit at some gut level.

    Here's an example: If my assessment was that gold had a $2 downside, and a $0-$1000 upside, the trade would be an easy one to make.   "A $1000 upside is awfully nice - worst case I lose two bucks."  I'd make that trade every single day.  Eventually one of these trades will pay off big time, and I'll be laughing all the way to the bank.  [That's called "sequenced multidrug therapy" in medicine-land]

    Traders live in a world of uncertainty.  We never, ever know if the trade will work out "for sure."  Everything is "odds" and "risk/benefit" and "making decisions in a state of uncertainty."

    I wonder what trader uptake of Ivermectin is?

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 4:19am

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

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    Dave , I call you and raise you.

    I don't even have too look at the odds on this one.  You know it works. because  how much they are trying to suppress it.  The force is strong with this one.   It could wipe out half dozen diseases , tomorrow.  Ones that make huge money.  things like depression ( which is a garbage basket catch all )   CFS, ( which is immune dysfunction as they have finally concluded ) as is gulf war syndrome,  lupus, adhd,  MS, and whole bunch of other autoimmune disorders.  For all we know, and I firmly believe - this may be as effective , if not much more so, than all the drugs for HIV. ( at 300k per year / person )    They dont want the cheapo drugs..  Somehow doctors and hospitals  wont treat you because you didnt take vaccine( that hasnt completed trials ) for an illness that kills only old sick people mostly,  but they will spend a truck load on someone with illness associated with negative and socially unacceptable or illegal behaviors.

    This has never been about efficacy, this is about profitability.   So applying your investment trade, I see no upside for the $$$ medical industry..   Our health care is not determined by what is good for us , it is determined what is good for making money.    so the trade in IVM - is a lose lose.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 5:40am

    Gregory

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    video link?

    do you have a link to the video?

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 7:20am

    JoshuaGreen

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    JoshuaGreen said:

    Chris, thanks for chiming in.

    While I fundamentally disagree with the idea that an extremely safe drug with early positive observational signals has to have a bevy of RCT's before it can be used or recommended ...

    I think you're conflating two positions here.  I don't know exactly why IVM was (I guess) by-prescription before COVID, but presumably those reason(s) are still in effect, so the question is really whether it's justified to ignore those reasons and make it, say, OTC now.  Ignoring that question, I agree that it's perfectly fine for individuals to use IVM, as long as they take the appropriate version in appropriate doses.  That doesn't mean that society has to recommend it as a treatment for COVID.

    ... I'm happy to discuss my reasons for believing it has a strong-enough positive signal to vigorously endorse and recommend.

    Which I'm happy to see you do.

    I was unable to put any discussion of treatments on Youtube as even covering papers proved to be sufficient to get me banned. It happened twice.

    So I put my best efforts over here on the website and behind the paywall because I didn't want Google's prying eyes anywhere near my better work.

    I watched the previous video which got censored (before it was removed). Yeah, I agree that that removal was extreme, though you did note (in your follow-up) that you violated the terms-of-service by drawing a connection between the vaccines and reproductive health. So I kind of get your point, but when the discussion I'm interested in has been intentionally hidden and yet I'm repeatedly told (by commenters here) that I should be able to easily find it (without anyone actually providing a link), well, it doesn't do great things for the argument.

    Back there you will find an excellent interview with Pierre Kory where he covers the totality of the evidence.

    Thanks; I'll check out what I can of those conversations, though it seems that some (but not all) of them are paywalled.

    We have:

    1) Powerful observational data from doctors who have collectively treated tens of thousands of early, mid and severe Covid patients with spectacular results.

    2) We have country-level epidemiological data even including huge real-world experiments where a country (e.g. Peru) would go on IVM then off due to political pressures, then back on again with cases and deaths tracking with an ~1 week lag. See also Uttar Pradesh, Mexico City, parts of Brazil, etc.

    3) Both RCT and prospective and retrospective clinical trials numbering in the dozens with the overwhelming majority of them showing very positive results.

    4) Meta-analyses combining all the studies in 3 above showing exceptionally positive benefits.

    5) My own anecdotal experiences which now number in the many dozens. Exactly zero of the people I have tracked closely through their use of IVM upon first symptom onset have progressed to the hospital. There was one member here (Steve) who reported not having that experience and going to the hospital despite IVM use. So including his experience then my results pretty closely track the studies that say "IVM is pretty darned good, but not perfect."

    Alas, the observational and epidemiological evidence can be confounded by numerous variables, and the RCTs and meta-analyses are currently coming under a lot of fire. This doesn't mean that there's no signal, just that it's hard for individuals to wade through all sides of this discussion.  (As I noted in an earlier comment, it's something of a Gish gallop, with possibly strong claims mixed in with a lot of weaker ones.)  I've seen you tear apart arguments that I've found persuasive, and I've seen others persuasively tear apart specific evidence for IVM efficacy, so I was hoping to see your critical take on the latter. At least in what I'd caught recently -- sorry, I find videos a rather awkward communication medium, and I don't catch all of them -- it seemed that you had been treating such claims with kid-gloves.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 7:30am

    CC.Cecil

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    CC.Cecil said:

    Well said.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 7:40am

    JoshuaGreen

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    JoshuaGreen said:

    I assume you're referring to me. Please go back to my initial post (#9) as well as my quoting of Chris -- something else which is difficult to do when information is presented via video -- in #35. My only claims were that Chris's decision matrix by itself isn't reason enough to recommend IVM and that he didn't discuss efficacy here or in his previous video. (Yes, I used the silly example of gummy bears in an apparently vain attempt to make my point.  As a less snarky example, try replacing IVM with something like acupuncture in his decision matrix and then tell me which quadrant you disagree with.)

    After that, there were several cycles of posts, similar to the following:

    1. Someone posts "Chris has covered the evidence in great detail."
    2. I ask "OK, where?  I'd like to see that."
    3. They respond with "You should be able to search for yourself."
    4. I note that I tried searching and came up empty.
    5. They respond with "Here are a bunch of links at which IVM efficacy is demonstrated."
    6. I respond with "Yes, I can find those too, but I was interested in Chris's critical analysis of these claims."
    7. I'm told that searching is inherently hard on this site.

    and then the cycle repeats.

    Chris gave me some pointers above, so that should break the cycle.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 8:04am

    davefairtex

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    oh i get it

    Josh is requiring that CHRIS explain this to him, rather than being satisfied with some other person presenting him the exact same evidence.  For some reason, CHRIS had to be the delivery vehicle for the evidence.  No bit of evidence that we lowly members could possibly provide - no matter how hard we tried - could possibly satisfy Josh.

    It is clear that Josh isn't actually interested in getting an evidentiary answer to his question.  For some reason, it is critical to him that CHRIS be the information source, either in some recent video or presentation or personally or whatever.

    Very curious.  Never saw anything like this before.  I wonder what's really going on here?

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 8:07am

    JoshuaGreen

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    JoshuaGreen said:

    Assume that the spike protein Is the disease and all becomes clear. (supported by studies on rats who were injected with the spike protein and not the virus. Proving that the virus is the Vector of the disease.)

    Now why would you accept an injection that promotes the production of spike protein?

    From a personal perspective I can offer two reasons:

    1. It seems likely that I'll eventually be exposed to COVID, and I expect fewer spike proteins from the vaccine than I do from a self-replicating virus.
    2. I know when I get the vaccine and can be on the lookout for (and ready to deal with) any side effects. (I can also time it so that unfortunate -- but not life-threatening -- effects will have minimal impact on my life.)

    Adding to that is the societal reason, that being vaccinated might make me less likely to be a link in a COVID transmission chain to someone at particular danger from it.

    Now, I was vaccinated back in April-May. (Anecdata: my only side effect was soreness at the injection site each evening, gone by the next morning.) I think the assumptions above were reasonable at the time. Now we see the societal reason coming under some fire, and though I don't think it's entirely clear I do agree that those pushing for vaccine mandates really need to take that issue on.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 8:12am

    Phred

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    Someone mentioned Gish Gallop

    This thread could be a textbook example. Go read this, watch that, construct a refutation,  and come back later when I will give you more tasks.  Oh, and keep an open mind. You do have an open mind, don't you?

    In a sense it is a compliment to this site that it is deemed worthy of attack.  People here must seem particularly dangerous to TPTB.

    I figure if we just ignore them, they will have spent a lot of time for nothing.

     

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 8:20am

    JoshuaGreen

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    JoshuaGreen said:

    I see how it may have come off that way, so let me clarify what I was thinking.

    I've seen lots of people share evidence that vaccines are safe and effective.  Chris has made it a point to challenge that data harshly.  Great, we're all after the truth, and most people don't dig into things in that much detail.  However, in this video as well as recent ones that I've caught it's seemed that Chris has been happy to point out anything that suggests IVM is effective, without offering any real analysis whatsoever.  (For example, see the plot he tossed in at the end of his censored video, with just some sarcastic remarks.)  As others who have carefully examined some of this evidence have pointed out flaws, this leaves me skeptical that there's anything there, but if Chris has turned his usual critical eye to these claims and provided his careful analysis then that would be more persuasive.

    I'll add that I initially (#9) didn't ask anyone to provide evidence; I merely suggested that Chris's decision matrix without evidence (the conditions he suggested) was meaningless.  It was others who asserted that Chris had covered this, and I merely asked them where.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 8:33am

    JoshuaGreen

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    JoshuaGreen said:

    You're correct that individuals should be allowed to make their own decisions and take their own risks.  However, that's different from saying that society should recommend those same decisions and risks to everyone.  If IVM works then we should be using it, but if it's ineffective then there are absolutely societal negatives to formally recommending it, for example:

    • People may see less reason to get vaccines. (Yes, you may consider this a positive, but to those who think vaccines are safe and effective this is a negative.)
    • People may hoard IVM, reducing supply for those who can/need to make use of it for other purposes.
    • It may reduce research into other possible treatments.
    • It may make people less afraid of COVID, causing them to drop or fight other mitigations.
    • It may erode the public's faith in future medicines that are recommended against various ailments.

    So yeah, there's a big difference between Chris offering his best opinion of the evidence (and inviting his followers and subscribers to do what makes sense for them) and the FDA announcing that IVM should be part of the standard treatment protocol for everyone.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 8:36am

    davefairtex

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    safe & effective

    Oh, "safe and effective", that's an interesting topic. Have you looked into issues with the extent of VAERS under-reporting?  Its a very interesting topic.  One I didn't know about before COVID.

    I could send  you a paper.  Most people aren't so interested - they just use "Science" (CNN) talking points to justify decisions they've already made - but you're smart and capable enough that you might actually be able to see what the data are really saying.

    Interested?

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 8:59am

    Mike from Jersey

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    Replying to Someone mentioned Gish Gallop (#118)

    Phred,

    You wrote:

    Go read this, watch that, construct a refutation,  and come back later when I will give you more tasks.  Oh, and keep an open mind. You do have an open mind, don't you?

    I haven't read all the posts in this thread, so I can't comment on whether there was an attempt to "hijack" the thread or not. But I have seen situations where that has happened. And it happens in just the way you mention. The idea is to simply tie one up with endless requests for more and more information. When that information is provided, links are offered to articles from sites with low credibility (CNN, Newsweek, Business Insider) and then you are supposed to refute them. And it goes on and on. Sometimes, with endless nuanced re-arguments of the same point.

    This causes two problems.

    One, it exhausts the people genuinely interested in finding out what is really going on and diverts them from the task of exploration.

    Two, and more importantly, new members who come to this site looking for answers are exposed to MSM articles which are often little more than carefully constructed propaganda.

    Thus, thread hijacking is a two pronged attack meant to suppress legitimate inquiry into matters of concern and to reiterate propaganda points. As this site becomes increasingly popular I expect this to happen more and more often. I also expect other types of sophisticated disinformation attacks.

    These are the times we live in.

    For myself, I generally don't get into the "refutation trap" since I don't come here for ego-boosting argumentation. I come here since I have concluded that the MSM is deliberately lying. It is obvious to me at this point. And I have come here to find out what is really going on.

    So if someone posts a CNN or similar article, I will neither read it nor waste time attempting to refute it. Because that is not the reason I come here. I come here to find out what is really going on - not to read or be involved with more propaganda.

    For new members, I would suggest the following. If you have started to doubt the credibility of the MSM, then do what I did. Do your own research and come to your own conclusions. At that point you can decide what threads to ignore and what threads deserve close scrutiny.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 9:14am

    Mike from Jersey

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    Mike from Jersey said:

    davefairtex,

    You wrote:

    Oh, "safe and effective", that's an interesting topic. Have you looked into issues with the extent of VAERS under-reporting?  Its a very interesting topic.  One I didn't know about before COVID.

    That is the topic which most interests me at this point. Just how safe (or dangerous) are the vaccines? I have already come to conclusions about Ivermectin, the extent of the danger of Covid 19 and other things.

    The thing I am unclear about is just how safe (or dangerous) are the vaccines. I am also puzzled (and worried) by the "official" responses, which do not appear to make any sense.

    These issues, more and more, are the focus of my attention.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 9:25am

    JoshuaGreen

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    JoshuaGreen said:

    Oh, "safe and effective", that's an interesting topic. Have you looked into issues with the extent of VAERS under-reporting?  Its a very interesting topic.  One I didn't know about before COVID.

    I could send  you a paper.  Most people aren't so interested - they just use "Science" (CNN) talking points to justify decisions they've already made - but you're smart and capable enough that you might actually be able to see what the data are really saying.

    Interested?

    Actually yes, though the trick would be showing that past trends apply to these COVID vaccines for which so many are carefully watching for side effects.  Most comments on these topics have estimated under-reporting of relatively minor events after previous vaccines (for which people go in with a huge bias toward assuming safety, hence are less likely to report anything that isn't particularly serious) and then try to extrapolate that ratio to deaths that occur after the COVID vaccine.  The situations hardly seem comparable to me.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 9:33am

    JoshuaGreen

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    JoshuaGreen said:

    To those who feel that I've hijacked this thread by asking an endless serious of questions, I'll assert that I only asked one precise question, motivated by others' claims.  I had suggested that Chris's decision matrix was meaningless in the absence of evidence of efficacy (despite his own quotes).  The common response was that Chris had carefully considered such evidence.  Given Chris's propensity to consider all aspects of data -- or at least more aspects than most others -- I thought such discussion would be valuable to see, so I simply asked "Where?"  That precise question went unanswered; instead my personal ability to research was insulted, even as I was repeatedly informed that the search facilities on this site are rather lacking.  Fortunately, Chris joined in and provided some pointers, so that's what I'll check out later today.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 9:45am

    Mpup

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    Gnomes

    Gnomes are a peculiar species.  When one attempts to feed them a diet rich in fruits and nutrients they often refuse to eat, even over a period of time.  Absent of their chosen nourishment they usually move on to more agreeable cookeries.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 9:59am

    Chris Martenson

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    Re: Dr Campbell

    Big Blue Wrote: Is it risky for this community have such confident support for ivermectin's effectiveness against COVID19 when the co-discoverer of the drug isn't standing in support of it himself?

    This was an errant conclusion you have drawn.  He clearly said he stood neither for nor against it.  He didn't have the background to say one way or the other.  That's a typical stance for an academic researcher.

    You reframed it as him being in the negative only indicating a possible bias.  Please don't put words in the mouth of a good professor - he just told you he doesn't like that.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 10:07am

    Chris Martenson

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    Just saying...

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 10:13am

    davefairtex

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    right so - safe and effective

    Most comments on these topics have estimated under-reporting of relatively minor events after previous vaccines (for which people go in with a huge bias toward assuming safety, hence are less likely to report anything that isn't particularly serious) and then try to extrapolate that ratio to deaths that occur after the COVID vaccine.  The situations hardly seem comparable to me.

    Heh.  Glad you've got an open mind, and you haven't already pre-determined the answer.  🙂

    In spite of that, I do think you are bright and intellectually honest enough to consider the evidence, in spite of the decision you've already made that the shot is safe-and-effective.   I sincerely appreciate you being willing to hear me out.

    The event we're looking at is anaphylaxis.  It is not a minor event - it requires a medical intervention for the person to survive.  It is a really obvious event, and it happens within 0-120 minutes post injection.

    So the question is, how often does anaphylaxis happen with the COVID19 vaccines?

    The CDC says, on its website:

    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

    Anaphylaxis after COVID-19 vaccination is rare and has occurred in approximately 2 to 5 people per million vaccinated in the United States. Severe allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis, can occur after any vaccination. If this occurs, vaccination providers can effectively and immediately treat the reaction. Learn more about COVID-19 vaccines and allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis.

    Well that's reassuring.  2-in-a-million really is no big deal.

    But then there's this.  A hospital (Mass General Brigham) vaxxed a bunch of employees.  And then surveyed each one of them post-injection (#1) to see what happened.  Instead of relying on THEM to file a report, they proactively asked everyone at the hospital what happened.

    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2777417

    Of 64 900 employees who received their first dose of a COVID-19 vaccine, 25 929 (40%) received the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine and 38 971 (60%) received the Moderna vaccine. At least 1 symptom survey was completed by 52 805 (81%).

    Acute allergic reactions were reported by 1365 employees overall (2.10% [95% CI, 1.99%-2.22%]), more frequently with the Moderna vaccine compared with Pfizer-BioNTech (2.20% [95% CI, 2.06%-2.35%] vs 1.95% [95% CI, 1.79%-2.13%]; P = .03) (Table 1). Anaphylaxis was confirmed in 16 employees (0.025% [95% CI, 0.014%-0.040%]): 7 cases from the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine (0.027% [95% CI, 0.011%-0.056%]) and 9 cases from the Moderna vaccine (0.023% [95% CI, 0.011%-0.044%]) (P = .76).

    Individuals with anaphylaxis were a mean age of 41 (SD, 13) years, and 15 (94%) were female (Table 2); 10 (63%) had an allergy history and 5 (31%) had an anaphylaxis history. Mean time to anaphylaxis onset was 17 (SD, 28; range, 1-120) minutes. One patient was admitted to intensive care, 9 (56%) received intramuscular epinephrine, and all recovered. Three employees, with prior anaphylaxis history, did not seek care.

    Its hard to miss anaphylaxis.  No treatment = maybe you die.  And it happens almost immediately post-injection.  So that's 16 / 52,805 cases of first-dose anaphylaxis.  Or 302 / 1,000,000.  Vs the CDC, which saw 2-5 / 1,000,000 cases of anaphylaxis.

    So what's the undercount rate from CDC?    302/2 - 302/5.  Or about 60-151:1.

    Turns out, surveys uncover a lot more incidents than relying on people to self-report.

    Who knew?

    So given how easy it was to spot anaphylaxis - the undercount ratio should be the absolute lowest, given what you said - everyone is eager to report every little flutter - and even with that "over-monitoring" in place, VAERS still managed to undercount this really obvious - and life-threatening event (if untreated) - at a rate of at least 60:1.

    So multiply all those serious VAERS events - minimum - by 60.

    How many deaths reported to VAERS?  How many COVID deaths in the US?

    Is the vaccine actually safe?

    We can do effective next.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 10:15am

    DaveDD

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    DaveDD said:

    Hi Joshua,

    Yes, I do think that you hijacked this whole thread. Apart from that: your reasoning is very formal, which I like a lot. However, in absence of full knowledge, which is the case here imo, the standard “pyramid of proof” is a slow, and therefore bad risk mitigation approach. I consider the matrix that Chris presented as a risk mitigation strategy. Yes indeed, there are many confounders, but, as long as the cost/benefit is strongly in favor of benefits, then this approach buys ourselves time.

    ivermectin and some other substanbces mentionded do have a proven safety record (low cost), but observational studies, and “small” studies higher up the “evidence” ladder, do suggest a strong positive signal. Whether this is causal or just correlation is something that really needs to be determined in a full blown scientific approach indeed.

    With respect to the vaxxes. These things are “new” in terms of mass roll-out. Although I think that this technology is brilliant, there are unknown risks, which is mentioned in the EUA documents (I did read the European version, everybody can download them. The fact sheets are woefully lacking). There are actually many studies that suggest that there “might” be long term issues (see for example the one mentioned at the end of this blogpost: https://rightsfreedoms.wordpress.com/2021/08/13/mit-harvard-study-suggests-mrna-vaccine-might-permanently-alter-dna-after-all/). Additionally, both VAERS, and EUDRAVIGILENCE show an extreme amount of side effects, and we know that these are underreported.

    Furthermore, Corona viruses are notorious, not because they very deadly, in general they are not, but they can mutate rather easily under evolutionary pressure. Vaccinating during pandemics is actually quite iffy. In the Netherlands, where I live, they rather kill the whole flock of, say chickens, than to vaccinate them, as it has been known within the veterinary world that vaccination during a pandemic drives the creation of mutant strains.

    All in all, imo a risk management approach is needed to minimize the impact of this pandemic, and to buy us time.

    Btw, I think that you will be hard pressed to find many people here who are anti-vaccines. Plus, I bet ye that there are many people here who are actually in awe of the mrna technology.

    Grts, Dave

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 10:24am

    brushhog

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    brushhog said:

    Most comments on these topics have estimated under-reporting of relatively minor events after previous vaccines (for which people go in with a huge bias toward assuming safety, hence are less likely to report anything that isn't particularly serious) and then try to extrapolate that ratio to deaths that occur after the COVID vaccine.

    Boy that seems like alot of mental gymnastics to bring you to the conclusion you want. Im not saying right or wrong, but when I find myself getting too convoluted in my logic I sometimes have to stop and ask myself what Im really trying to accomplish.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 10:34am

    BigBlue

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    My point exactly

    That's my point exactly:

    Campbell is not in SUPPORT of the efficacy of ivermectin again COVID.

    He is not AGAINST it, either.

    Thus, I have not taken a stand in support of, or against, the efficacy of ivermectin against COVID-19.”

    In sum, he is NOT taking a public stance on the matter.

    So, why isn't he confident in judging its effiveness against the virus?

    I am a biologist with no claim to expertise in the clinical evaluation of drugs against viral infections.

    Clearly, the co-discoverer of this drug doesn't feel he has enough expertise/evidence to make a clear call.

    And we know for certain he doesn't want to be seen as supporting the claim that ivermectin works against COVID, as evidenced by his public refutation of said claim falsely attributed to him on social media (linked to in my previous comment)

    As it remains unanswered, I ask my question again:

    Is it risky for THIS community to have so much confidence/certainty in ivermectin's effectiveness against COVID when the Nobel prize-winning discoverer of the drug (who presumably knows more about ivermectin than nearly any person on Earth) does not?

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 10:37am

    Mike from Jersey

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    Replying to right so - safe and effective (#130)

    davefairtex,

    Good analysis.

    This is the type of thing that in which I am interested. This is also the type of thing of which most citizens are completely unaware.

    I was at a college football tailgate party yesterday. The participants were graduates of major universities. A couple of them discussed the vaccines and how they had "protected themselves" by immediately getting the vaccines. They believed that there were no risks involved with the vaccines at all. They believed that because everyone in the mainstream uses the mantra "safe and effective" without regards to the reality of the adverse events - one of which you mention.

    I went to the game with my brother in law who has a masters degree in electrical engineering from a top university. It had not occurred to him that the problems he developed after getting the vaccine might be related to the vaccine itself.

    I, myself, don't know if those problems were caused by the vaccine or not. But just by looking at VAERS and at the European data one can see that there are problems which are not being disclosed in the media.

    Just how serious these problems are - I don't know. But I come here with the hopes of finding out.

     

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 10:40am

    davefairtex

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    three comments

    BigBlue!  I can't help but notice you joined in 2011, and you've posted just three comments to date.  All three in the last few days!  What's up with that?

    Ivermectin just that big of a concern for you?

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 10:49am

    DaveDD

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    DaveDD said:

    Hai BigBlue,

    I’m not sure whom you mean with “this community”, there are nearlys many opinions and views as members.

    wrt to the biologist not wanting to be a part in this whole “yes-no” game, this is how I interpret his statement: that is his prerogative. But actually, I do not know his motivation, so my interpretation is just that, my interpretation. Likewise, your interpretation is, by lack of the same missing information about his motivation, your interpretation. There is one difference however, I believe, and please correct me if I’m wrong: you implicitly use an “argumentum ab auctoritate”.

    What is a defining element of this “loose sand community”, I think, is that “data” trumps authorities opinions…

    Grts, Dave

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 10:52am

    davefairtex

    davefairtex

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    Posts: 2780

    13

    thanks mike

    I don't know myself what the actual issues are.

    Just my sense: "auto-antibody" issues seem likely, since you've got spikes coming out of various cell types, which get the immune system all excited about those cells being "bad" - I mean, no clue what happens long term with that particular bit of training, right?  Auto-immune = the body attacks itself.  Because there were spikes coming out of formerly-normal cells, training the body to think those cells were somehow "bad" seems as though there might be some unintended consequences from that.  Maybe?

    In a functioning society, we'd track this stuff, we'd only vax the high-risk people, we'd survey everyone who got the shot like they did at Mass General Brigham (rather than relying on self-reporting, like VAERS does), we'd track "new health events" (and/or resurgent health events) and chart them against last year's background rate to see if anything untoward was happening.

    That's if we had organizations that cared about health.  Rather than FDA/CDC, which appear to be functioning as vax marketing organizations.

    I mean - Mass General Brigham has shown us how to do it.  Do we imagine CDC doesn't know?  Of course it does.  And yet - for some reason - we must rely on under-reported VAERS.

    And the vax companies have no liability for the product that President Grandpa is mandating that our children must take.

    How it started:

    "Take the shot to save Grandma!"

    Last week:

    "Take the shot to save your life!!"

    How its going:

    "Take the shot or lose your freaking job!"

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 11:01am

    Mike from Jersey

    Mike from Jersey

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    Replying to thanks mike (#137)

    davefairtex,

    You wrote:

    In a functioning society, we'd track this stuff ..

    That is the problem. We don't live in a functioning society. And the lack of investigation into these issues is a significant fact in and of itself.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 11:25am

    whoknew79

    whoknew79

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    Joined: Apr 17 2011

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    6

    Gambits of Deception

    There are only so many things that I can chase down in between getting ready for work, driving to work, working, driving home from work, homestead life and chores, eating and sleeping.

    Yeah, thanks a lot Chris for adding another topic to my ever expanding list of things to learn about. 🙂

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 11:44am

    Mark_BC

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2010

    Posts: 577

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    Mark_BC said:

    Joshua, I'm a little perplexed by what you keep asking. You say that we haven't provided evidence of IVM efficacy but we have provided ample links. I specifically gave you ivmmeta.com which summarizes in detail over 60 studies and trials showing how effective it is against covid, plus a couple which don't. You claim to have exceptional, maybe even superior, scientific analytical abilities, so what do you find not convincing there? If you disagree with the methodologies used in those studies, then state your case.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 12:19pm

    Disco Bear

    Disco Bear

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    Gambits for Self Deception

    I believe that the "Gambits for Deception" should include "Gambits for Self Deception."  Many of those who are deceiving have themselves become deceived by their own untruths.

    I have a close relative who has an M.D.  I can listen to him very reliably repeat the FDA/AMA talking points (e.g. he even tried to convince me that ivermectin is dangerous).  I find when I try to influence him with data refuting those talking points, my arguments bounce off him.  For him to lose faith in the FDA and the AMA is such a threat to his worldview that all attempts at logical arguments will fail.

    A better approach than using logical argument alone is needed.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 12:35pm

    davefairtex

    davefairtex

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    flip the script?

    Disco Bear-

    Maybe - try acting as the student.  "Close relative - could you help me out by doing an analysis - a compare-and-contrast - of ivermectin vs, say Tylenol - in terms of deaths per year?  If you could prove to me that ivermectin really is dangerous, I'd have to rethink my view on it.  I do try hard to follow the science on these matters.  Where would we go to find data on relative drug toxicity?  Maybe we could do it together?"

     

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 12:49pm

    Quercus bicolor

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Mar 19 2008

    Posts: 1013

    1

    Source for India charts?

    Can someone point me to the live charts that were used in this post:

    http://www.tathasta.com/2021/09/horowitz-heavily-vaccinated-state.html

    They look like this:

    BTW, I computed that using the week ending 9/16, Kerala had 7880 times the new case rate per million of Uttar Pradesh. Yes, that's seven thousand eight hundred and eighty.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 12:56pm

    Kat43

    Kat43

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    Kat43 said:

    Joshua is either a troll or has no self awareness.  I vote troll, but either way, still unacceptably tiresome.  So the following is really for the others here.  Last week's TheHighwire dot com (Episode 233/The VAERS Scandal) has a remarkable interview of a whistleblower PA (physician assistant) from NY who as of a week from now will be out of a job for refusing the vaccine.  Clearly her small country hospital would like her to move on anyway.

    I would pick it up at 1:16:00 for Del's comment that even though Harvard University concluded only 1% of adverse events are reported, it wouldn't be surprising to find out that it was really only 0.5% given what we have been learning about how little is understood by health care professionals about VAERS and the extreme burden and difficulty of processing the reports.  And according to the PA, if you do report, expect daily calls from the CDC following up on what you submitted.  The reports are carefully scrutinized.  And it takes massive amounts of effort.  The interview with the PA runs to 2:23:10.  She goes into other issues as well, like the vaccine injuries.  She gives one more reason why vaccinated patients are labelled as unvaccinated.  In her hospital, they go by what is already in that hospital's records.  They do NOT routinely ask if a patient has been vaccinated.  So they miss all the vaccinations that happen outside of the hospital, like at the local pharmacy.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 1:05pm

    weekender823

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    Can IVM prophylaxis drive development of resistant virus variants?

    I just read Geert Vanden Bossche's The Last Post article and his discussion of vaccines driving virus variants made me wonder about this.  I don't recall seeing this discussed on PP before, but I could have missed it.  Sorry if it has already been discussed ad nauseum.

    I'm just wondering if I shouldn't stop the FLCCC IVM prophylaxis (keep the supplements of course), and keep it in reserve for a hopefully still effective early treatment.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 1:26pm

    Jim H

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    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1617

    20

    How to deal with the new class of Ivermectin trolls...

    Make no mistake, we are experiencing an arm of the psychological operation against Ivermectin.  Whether these are true believing NPC's who think they are doing societal good, or something more devious, I don't know.. but the attack is pretty sophisticated.  My preference is always to attack back not with emotion, but with data, so that an outsider coming to the thread for direction can see both sides, and hopefully get closer to what is true.

    I need to build some kind of visual depiction of what evidence or correlation spread across multi-variate space means.  As I have described, and as Bret Weinstein, PhD evolutionary biologist has separately described, most people have a cognitive deficit whereby they cannot grasp the strength of this kind of evidence.  Looking at the stack of evidence for Ivermectin's efficacy, it spans all of these dimensions;

    *  a molecule from nature, proven safe in humans over 40 years and billions of doses

    *  displayed anti-viral properties against both DNA and RNA viruses before the onset of Covid-19.

    *  proven to work in-vitro to dramatically suppress SARS-CoV2 viral replication (I linked to the study prior in this thread).

    *  Proven over the course of numerous RCT's to have positive benefit across all applications, prophylaxis through late treatment.

    *  Proven effective through meta-study of said RCT's.

    *  Many doctors with large and growing clinical datasets of patients who have been helped and/or cured using IVM-based protocols.  Once a non-captured doctor gets a taste of this efficacy, they can't "un-see" it.  Here's what one of those doctors, Dr. Urso, tweeted yesterday;

    Dr. Urso
    @richardursomd
    ·
    13h
    They have firepower,
    They have money,
    They have media,
    They have extensive resources,
    They have political positions,
    They have the agencies,
    They limit the message,

    THEY STILL LOST,
    BRAINS TRUMPS BRAWN AGAIN.

    Early is as early does.
    Treat right, treat early!!

    *  Anyone who has been following this story has their own stack of anecdotal tales of people getting better using IVM... one can even build a positive story using the handful of cases where families have sued hospitals to give IVM to ventilated relatives who have subsequently recovered.

    *  We can find the scientific basis for Ivermectin's dramatic effectiveness by citing the many mechanisms of anti-viral action that it displays... we all know from HIV that "it takes a cocktail" and indeed, this is the case with treatment for Covid-19 as well.  Ivermectin is the closest thing we have to an all-in-one cocktail... though successful early treatment always pairs it with other things;

    https://www.thecompleteguidetohealth.com/uploads/8/9/4/8/8948721/ivermectins_6_mechanisms_of_action.pdf

    *  Population level data:  There is a growing body of population level data, which is a very distinct kind of data that is VERY powerful.  We have the Africa data, which points to much lower levels of Covid-19 in countries that have anti-parasite IVM treatment programs already in place.  We have the incredible contrast of Uttar Pradesh vs Kerala within the borders of the same country;  India.  Uttar Pradesh has adopted a hybrid program of IVM early treatment for cases and additional prophylaxis for family members.. and this has literally driven cases to near ZERO.  Kerala on the other hand adopted vax and does not allow IVM.. and they are drowning in cases and death.  We have seen other signals out of various countries that correlate to their IVM up or down policy choices, and this is a unique form of evidence that makes the entire stack of evidence all the more powerful.

    *  The ferocity of the attacks on Ivermectin are indeed evidence in this story.  They are so irrational, so deceptive (gunshot victims can't get into the ICU because of the IVM overdoses?), so over-the-top that they form another layer of evidence in the positive to those who hate to be deceived.

    I may have missed a layer or two, but you get the picture.  Each of these categories of evidence is fundamentally different... when we stack them all up and view them together, the picture becomes extraordinarily clear to anyone who is intuitively wired to receive it.  Can this all be a cosmic coincidence such that Ivermectin doesn't actually work against Covid?  No way.

    I think everyone reading this understands what a meta-study is.. it's a study of studies.. and the stacking of evidence across many studies becomes a much stronger sort of evidence vs. any one study.  The idea I am trying to get across is analogous, but it's about appreciating different kinds or categories of evidence.

    You can attack any one category or layer, i.e. Joe Rogan is full of shit.  But when you stack 1000 Joe Rogan's, with all the other layers in the Ivermectin story.. you see where I am going.. the overall direction of the evidence becomes statistically impossible to deny.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 1:27pm

    hammer6166

    hammer6166

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    Nudges for Dr Seheult and Dr Campbell

    In addition to Chris, I watched Dr Seheult (Medcram) and Dr Campbell for information regarding the pandemic. Both have had videos censored. IMO, their attitudes and presentations changed as a result. I watch them less now.

    Dr Seheult (Medcram) had his videos restored.

    We made the wrong call, YouTube says after deleting videos about HCQ

    Here is Dr Campbell's talk with Tess Lawrie reviewing IVM data. I think this is the video that was initially censored but I can't guarantee it. Dr Campbell covered IVM in 5 videos during the timeframe of the Tess Lawrie interview.





     

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 1:30pm

    Mpup

    Mpup

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    Functioning organizations and society

    "That's if we had organizations that cared about health.  Rather than FDA/CDC, which appear to be functioning as vax marketing organizations."

    If we had "functioning organizations" that actually cared about the health and lives of people, they wouldn't continue spewing the lines that "more powerful RCT's are necessary to prove the efficacy of HCQ and ivermectin"... that approaching two years into the "scamdemic."   They would have already done their "studies"....if they cared.  Billionaires gotta make their billions, millionaires gotta make their millions.

    If they cared about those encouraging the treatment narratives they would have done the right thing and confirmed the error of their ways.(If there was error)   People who don't seek  the truth, don't want the truth.

     

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 1:40pm

    Jim H

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    Yours is a good question weekender....

    Because IVM has so many different mechanisms of action (see the link I just posted prior in this thread) I am personally not too worried that the virus will "learn" to evade it.  I am though worried about IVM future availability and I want to preserve my stash.  Based on previous discussions I have been party to a few of us have come to a similar practice;  Use pretty much everything other than Ivermectin as ongoing prophylaxis, and hit the IVM at even the smallest sign of the onset of illness.  That is my current practice.  There have been two times in the last few months where I have taken 0.4 mg/kg doses for a few days and then stopped, falling back to my own version of super prophylaxis, the core of which is Vitamin D3 (10,000 IU daily), Quercetin phytosome (Thorne) and Zinc.  The more we learn about quercetin, the more comfortable I feel about this non-IVM fall-back prophylaxis, especially when you mind the bioavailability of your quercetin;

     

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 1:47pm

    Jim H

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    The evils being practiced behind the narrative control

    Here is what a nurse from Australia says is happening... IVM being given in hospital ONLY to the sick vaccinated.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 1:54pm

    Quercus bicolor

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    8

    Evidence of arguments bouncing - JoshuaGreen, Big Blue, etc.

    Uttar Pradesh (much less vaxxed, universal IVM starting just before the peak this Spring) vs. Kerala (much more vaxxed, IVM banned). One week average cases per million ending September 16 is Seven-thousand-eight-hundred-eighty times higher in Kerala than it is in Uttar Pradesh.  Here is a blog post that summarizes that data: http://www.tathasta.com/2021/09/horowitz-heavily-vaccinated-state.html   There a at least a dozen other epidemiological examples that are similar.

    Response from JoshuaGreen and BigBlue: zero.

    Mass General Brigham study showing under-reporting of anaphylaxis by at least a factor of 60 and more likely over 100 in VAERS.

    Response from Big Blue and JoshuaGreen (so far, granted, it hasn't been long yet): zero.

    Linked studies on IVM (for example: ivmmeta.com).

    Response from Big Blue and/or JoshuaGreen: "I've seen refutations".  Why not read the studies.  Look at them critically, especially the study design: are they "designed to fail" or "designed to show efficacy" by cheating in some way?  For example, are they designed to fail by any of the following means: Recruit participants in a region with easy IVM availability and widespread use for covid, then don't ask potential participants if they have recently or are currently on IVM.  Recruit too few people and/or people that are too healthy and then claim lack of statistical significance when even perfect results would not be significant. Give some combination of too little for too short a time and too late to the treatment group.  Read the papers.  Then read the refutations and determine if they are reasonable.  You seem smart and willing to think critically.  Go ahead and do that.

    Campbell's lack of a stand on IVM.  This is a huge minefield with a coordinated campaign of censoring, erasing of achievements in their Wikipedia page, blacklisting and other tactics for those who come out in favor of IVM.  For physicians, the real risk is loss of license or job.  I don't blame him for not taking that risk.

    JG and/or BB's response:  He's only afraid of the consequences of being wrong.  Thank you for responding on this one rather than ignoring it.

    Adverse events: See the paragraph above for the strong incentives to not report them and to claim they are not vaccine related.  I know of 9 likely adverse events (4 in second order contacts, i.e. friends of friends and 5 observed in medical settings as I accompanied an ill family member during the most intense part of the vaccine rollout from late March-Early May.  My best rough estimate of the serious adverse event rate based on this is 1.5-2%.  This agrees with Steve Kirsch's analysis.  Others on this site have similar stories. Please look through my posting history.  You won't have to go back too far to see my detailed description of the events I've heard about or witnessed.

    I've already mentioned their (so far) lack of response to the Mass General Brigham study showing that anaphylaxis is much more common than VAERS suggests.

    Vaccine effectiveness and risk of immune escape:  There is much data available on this from Israel and the UK, although it is not perfect because it's difficult to fully account for differences in age and health for the vaxxed and unvaxxed group.  We all know the virus isn't static.  It evolves in response to it's environment to survive and thrive as conditions change.  Because it is easily mutable, with a very short replication cycle and a large number of  "offspring" per generation, it evolves quickly.  One threat in it's environment is the large number of vaccinated people.  Unfortunately, these people have a narrowly focused immunity which means that likely only a few mutations are required for the virus to escape said immunity.  Breakthrough cases and now breakthrough hospitalizations and deaths suggest that this process is well underway.

    Admittedly, this hasn't been a topic of discussion yet on this thread.

    Everywhere I look in the mainstream and social media, discussion of these topics are being censored and shut down.  Perhaps there has been a relaxation of this lately in some cases. I think we can agree that they all present real risks which require an honest and open public discussion as any one of them could turn a vaccine "miracle" into a vaccine disaster.

    Conclusion: please address the points y0u haven't responded too.  Please don't just let your previous investment in a position lead you to pick the best argument you can come up with that favors that position, whether it is viable or not.  That is easy to spot and won't get you anywhere on this site.  Please actually consider both sides and be willing to choose based on data.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 2:07pm

    Quercus bicolor

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    Yes, multiple types of evidence and many examples of each type.

    Something like 95% of them point in the same direction towards moderate to high efficacy of IVM in covid-19 treatment.  The few that don't are either very small and therefore subject to statistical vagaries or obviously designed to fail.

    We have:

    • Theoretical mechanisms of action
    • In vitro studies
    • Published trials, including a significant proportion of peer reviewed RCT's
    • Epidemiological data
    • Anecdotes from friends, the medical community, and, of course, ourselves and our friends/family.
    • A stellar and well established record as an extremely safe drug, safer than many (most?) over the counter drugs.

    The evidence is certainly strong enough to favor treatment with a safe drug.

    We only need to contrast with remdesivir with much less evidence of at best mild effectiveness, a very large risk profile due to hepatotoxicity and renal toxicity, and a negative recommendation from the WHO to see that the public IVM stance is political or financial.  Remdesivir costs $3K per course and is still the "standard of care" (Oops, I mean malpractice or maybe reckless endangerment) in U.S. hospitals.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 2:15pm

    Quercus bicolor

    Status: Gold Member

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    3

    Try searching PP with a search engine

    For example, I wanted to find the 8 forms of capital graphic here on PP.  I entered "8 forms of capital, Peak Prosperity" at https://duckduckgo.com/

    I got what I wanted as the second item in the list.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 2:20pm

    firegarden

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    14

    firegarden said:

    Now why would you accept an injection that promotes the production of spike protein?

    The short answer, blind faith in "it's proven 100% safe and effective"... Now, without dissent, get in line! Didn't this scenario play out with Thalidomide in the late fifties? It seems apparent history repeats itself via naiveite.

    The long answer, big pharma has been indoctrinating "consumers" susceptible to IGD (instant gratification disorder). A pill for every pain akin to, sit, rollover, good boy! You walk away feeling you've been rewarded with these holy treats given by the masters to make you "feel" better in the interim. That's all which matters to many if not most human beings. And remember, that which ails you has little to do with the lifestyle choices laid at our feet from those above. (And yes! Captain Crunch along with white toast and reconstituted OJ is a balanced meal!) After all, 1.5 millions years of evolution, nature blew it! Now, with impunity,  lets start things off by removing those pesky lil o organs which serve no meaningful function. Tonsils? The largest node in the lymphatic system? Nah! Gall bladder? The main repository for digestive enzymes? Nah! From GERD to turd, it's not your fault! And the magical potions await...

     

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 2:28pm

    marianne smith

    marianne smith

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    6

    RE: you tube ( Dr. Seheult & Dr. Rhonda Patrick

    I watched this video, but was very turned off on the comment that Dr. Rhonda Patrick made RE: Ivermectin, that it was all small studies put together and that everything was thrown in the sink, I shut the video as soon as that came out of her mouth.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 2:35pm

    You've been Nudged...!

    You've been Nudged...!

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Aug 28 2021

    Posts: 246

    2

    Nudges for Dr Seheult and Dr Campbell

    Good point. In the UK at least, people like John Campbell (who the State regards as YouTube 'influencers') would have had a visit from a representative of the intelligence community & given some BS about how the jabs were essential for national security etc., blah-blah.

    Both the people you mention appear to be idealists, so will go along with the 'noble lie' if it appears to lead towards a 'greater good' - but I still find their information informative...

    The trouble is, this 'group think' and 'utilitarian philosophy' (where individual sovereignty is sacrificed for the benefit of the collective), rarely leads towards an ethical sociaty - as the people of Nazi Germany & the Soviet Union etc. found out...

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 2:52pm

    You've been Nudged...!

    You've been Nudged...!

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    Posts: 246

    3

    RE: you tube ( Dr. Seheult & Dr. Rhonda Patrick

    It was misinformed what she said - but MedCram has done a lot to promote vitamin D & even HCQ etc. Having an open mind is the key to enlightenment - but shutting people down because they fail a single purity test is the pathway to groupthink & radicalism, IMHO.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 3:04pm

    Disco Bear

    Disco Bear

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    6

    Thanks, Davefairtex

    davefairtex, Thanks for your suggestion on how to change the views of my relative. The problem goes deeper than winning an argument. I see it more of a problem of worldviews and how one person develops a certain concept of how reality is structured.

    To give an example, we discussed how the influenza virus mysteriously disappeared over the winter of 2020-2021. He argued that it was because of the widespread wearing of masks. I find such an argument to be more faith based than reality based because the masks I see being worn in public would have trouble filtering out a determined gnat, let alone a virus. I had already read of the defeat of the flu virus by magic talisman masks and found the argument to be ludicrous. Neither of us is anti-mask. I have a supply of N95 masks, but I have little confidence in their effectiveness.

    My relative is smarter than I am, vastly more successful than I am, and he is happy with his view of reality. I've given up trying to convince him he might be mistaken on certain aspects of SARS-CoV-2.

    He still has faith in the heirarchical system and that the flow of information passed down from above can be relied on. I lost that faith decades ago.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 3:08pm

    Susan7

    Susan7

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    9

    I came to the same conclusion

    He’s wanting to engage Chris, and only Chris. Perhaps it’s an ego thing to be able to elicit a response from the well-known and respected founder of the website itself or maybe he just doesn’t think anyone is capable of interpreting the data but Chris. I don’t really know but his many objections are becoming wearisome.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 3:32pm

    Mike from Jersey

    Mike from Jersey

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    Joined: Jan 22 2018

    Posts: 1211

    9

    Replying to I came to the same conclusion (#158)

    Susan7:

    You wrote:

    He’s wanting to engage Chris, and only Chris. Perhaps it’s an ego thing to be able to elicit a response from the well-known and respected founder of the website itself or maybe he just doesn’t think anyone is capable of interpreting the data but Chris. I don’t really know but his many objections are becoming wearisome.

    Years ago, I ran a website. People who disagreed with me did everything imaginable to disrupt my ability to run the site. They would bombard me with emails demanding to debate issues, they would send absurd opinion pieces to newspapers purporting to be signed by myself, they would attempt to sign me up for services I did not ask for, they would demand that I debate them in online forums and so on.

    Some were just self important people who thought that I should devote personal time to them and cater to their demands. Some were obviously and intentionally trying to disrupt my ability to run the site.

    But the overall effect of such actions is to disrupt one's ability to run a site.

    I am not saying that is intentionally happening here. But that is the result of this type of thing. And sometimes it is indeed intentional.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 3:37pm

    thc0655

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    It’s way too late to be expending much energy convincing the vaxx true believers

    Our ship has already hit the iceberg and is taking on water below decks where most people don’t perceive it. The rich and the connected are already taking many of the available lifeboat seats. We’d be wise to quit preaching to the vaxx true believers and start investing the bulk of our energies in ACTIONS we’ll need to survive the culling that is unfolding directly in  front of us.





    ”Happy Hunger Games! And may the odds be ever in your favor.”

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 3:46pm

    You've been Nudged...!

    You've been Nudged...!

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    You’ve been Nudged…! said:

    Can't get that video in the UK. What's it called?

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 4:03pm

    firegarden

    firegarden

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    4

    RE: you tube ( Dr. Seheult & Dr. Rhonda Patrick)

    I've followed along with Medcram since the beginning. Not to give Dr. Seheult a free pass entirely, but he has had difficulties towing the line for obvious reasons. At the very least his early recommendations focused on the currently accepted nutraceutical bundle, proper sleep hygiene, sauna therapy, etc. that's a heck of a lot more than is being burped up from our CDC, FDA or Dr. Grouchie Fauci.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 4:06pm

    Matt Holbert

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Oct 03 2008

    Posts: 125

    2

    The powers that be have never been carefully watching for side effects...

     for which so many are carefully watching for side effects

    I would encourage you to watch Del Bigtree's interview with the NY hospital whistleblower. https://thehighwire.com/videos/these-patients-deserve-to-be-heard-vaers-whistleblower/  Listen to the conversation between the whistleblower and the Chief Medical Officer at the hospital (starts at around 40:00). The Chief Medical Officer is telling her in no uncertain terms, to paraphrase: "Stop carefully watching for side effects...." The CMO is likely representative of the majority of those in her position since they got there by never questioning anything. I can recommend the interview in its entirety.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 4:18pm

    firegarden

    firegarden

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    5

    Change

    I realized decades ago the only mind I can change is my own. My interest in discourse has little to do with undoing someone else's hard wired beliefs as these physical neuronal electrical circuits just can't be simply let go of. Unless of course you wish to lobotomize someone. Ideas are exchanged and I become empowered to either weaken my circuits of strengthen them. It is a laborious process either way. Cognitive dissonance is a physiological state as much so as it is phycological. Most thoughts and beliefs are not transient. They reside on hard disc space with lightning fast transfer speeds. STOP thinking about a zebras! See!

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 5:22pm

    firegarden

    firegarden

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    1

    Know when to hold em...Know when to fold em...

    "Because it is easily mutable, with a very short replication cycle and a large number of  "offspring" per generation, it evolves quickly".

    Haven't we been watching this phenomena play out in re-runs and real time with respect to over prescribing antibiotics?  Hello! Hello! MRSA! It is only intuitive to expect a similar outcome, only sooner as this incessant desire to vax all during high viral pressure will accelerate this process. The big question for me: Will this cause the virus to burn down or burn up? Natural mitigation strategies have historically shown us RNA virus's burn down and simply become just another endemic lot of junk virus's. Forced mitigation strategies have historically shown us RNA virus's............Oh right! We have no historical reference! So let's wing it here boys and girls!

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 6:10pm

    JoshuaGreen

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    Posts: 42

    1

    JoshuaGreen said:

    @davefairfax, thanks for providing that info, especially the latter article.  As per what I wrote, it's nice to see someone focusing on these vaccines rather than trying to extrapolate from previous ones.

    I've spent a bit of time looking through this and have a few ideas for what could be going on, systematic (and significant) VAERS undercounting being only one possibility.  It will take me more time to carefully review these statistics and cases.  For now, I'll just post what seems to be the basis for the CDC's numbers: "Reports of Anaphylaxis After Receipt of mRNA COVID-19 Vaccines in the US—December 14, 2020-January 18, 2021"

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 7:17pm

    PierreGee

    PierreGee

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    PierreGee said:

    Thanks for sharing. Powerful, yet frustrating / suspect without some context. If it's real, I get why they wouldn't want to be identified, yet without more detail, it's not very helpful.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 7:29pm

    Disco Bear

    Disco Bear

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    Joined: Dec 16 2020

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    3

    VAERS shows 819 cases of anaphylaxis; CDC found 66. What gives?

    From https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2776557

    During December 14, 2020 through January 18, 2021, a total of 9 943 247 doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine and 7 581 429 doses of the Moderna vaccine were reported administered in the US (CDC unpublished data, February 2021). CDC identified 66 case reports received by VAERS that met Brighton Collaboration case definition criteria for anaphylaxis (levels 1, 2 or 3)

    Here's the VAERS results: https://medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=AGE&EVENTS=ON&SYMPTOMS[]=Anaphylactic+reaction+%2810002198%29&SYMPTOMS[]=Anaphylactic+shock+%2810002199%29&SYMPTOMS[]=Anaphylactic+transfusion+reaction+%2810067113%29&SYMPTOMS[]=Anaphylactoid+reaction+%2810002216%29&SYMPTOMS[]=Anaphylactoid+shock+%2810063119%29&SYMPTOMS[]=Anaphylactoid+syndrome+of+pregnancy+%2810067010%29&VAX=COVID19&VAX_YEAR_LOW=2020&VAX_MONTH_LOW=12&VAX_YEAR_HIGH=2021&VAX_MONTH_HIGH=01

    Seems to be quite a discrepancy.  Because the search form I used doesn't allow for parts of a month, I couldn't fully match the time periods in the JAMA report.  Still, the difference between 66 and 819 is vast.

    What I was initially looking for was whether late reporting to VAERS might have increased the number of anaphylaxis incidents.  The JAMA report is dated February 12, 2021.  Any reports made to VAERS after that date for events that happened during the time period supposedly covered by the survey would not be included, thus undercounting the number of anaphylaxis.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 7:41pm

    Phred

    Phred

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    1

    Phred said:

    Well played.  Using their own techniques to elicit waste of time responses. That may work but I fear an advanced AI is doing the heavy lifting.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 7:45pm

    Arthur Robey

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1468

    1

    Context

    Read and inwardly digest the implications of the Limits to Growth report.

    Now consider, is it not in our interest to emulate Gates and not inject our own children and  vociferously insist that everybody else give the clot-shot to theirs?

    Do you hear what I am saying? Somebody is going to inherit the earth after this depopulation exercise is completed.

    Where now our binary reasoning that the Abrahamic monotheists insist upon; where all moral decisions can be divided into good or bad?

    Have I installed tension in your breast? Now let me relieve it.

    The assumption that the limits to growth report makes is that we are forever confined to the surface of this planet. What if that assumption is just plain wrong? Why do we make this assumption? Because one Albert Einstein had the brilliant idea that Nothingness is bent. Who put that Idea into his head? Aye. There is mystery in that.

    And then somehow we have got into our poor abused noodles that energy cannot be created or destroyed. Says who? As Terrance McKenna noted science be like,

    Grant us one miracle and we can explain the rest.

    Nope. Why should we grant them anything? The proof of the "law" of conservation of energy is Inductive.  (Of the form. "I have seen a thousand swans. They were all white. Therefore all swans are white.")

    Who benefits from these erroneous ideas? Who wants to train us like fleas, not to jump too high?

    Dr. Gerard K O'Neil posed the question, "Is the surface of a planet the best place for Industry?"  The answer was, surprisingly perhaps, No. There was only one flaw to his plan. He assumed that the moon was a natural object. It is not. It is wholly owned, and no, we may not dismantle their asset.

    It turns out that we do not need to dismantle the moon. But we must dismantle the Thrall that constrains the minds of our physicists and cosmologists. Be aware that a Kuhnian revolution is upon us now.

    Ref: Dr. Pierre Robitaille (Sky Schollar), Dr. GK O'Neil, Wal Thornhill and the Thunderbolts project, 'Who Built the Moon", The SAFIRE experiment and many others whom I have forgotten with my sincere apologies.

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 8:06pm

    whoknew79

    whoknew79

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    Joined: Apr 17 2011

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    1

    Actions

    thc0655 said,

    We’d be wise to quit preaching to the vaxx true believers and start investing the bulk of our energies in ACTIONS we’ll need to survive the culling that is unfolding directly in  front of us.

    Could you elaborate on what you see in our future?

    What actions are you taking right now?

    By the way, I agree that The Hunger Games story is a useful tool to shine a light on the way the world has been organized and divided for the past many decades / centuries. I don't pay as much attention to the actual Hunger Games in the story, but I often tell people that the societal structures in the story mirror the human structures in reality. I use the story as a way to inform others that WE are the Capitol. All those ridiculous wealthy Capitol people with their outfits, hairstyles, lack of empathy for those about to die-look in the mirror and you will see one of them every time.

     

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 8:31pm

    DanBC

    DanBC

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    4

    DanBC said:

    Yet, as we see progress with Ivermectin, the Canadian media continues its practice of hit pieces and non-sequitir articles. By receiving Federal Liberal Government taxpayer funds "to support business", the media keeps their end of the bargain up, gaslighting the Canadian public.

    Here's an example of a very weak and poorly written article, written by a "PhD candidate". He should be rejected!

    Why ivermectin isn't a COVID cure

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 10:34pm

    davefairtex

    davefairtex

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    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2780

    4

    the conclusion

    Josh-

    I'm excited to hear what you come up with.

    I suspect the conclusion will be either a) the CDC/VAERS undercounts actual events, or b) the CDC is lying about anaphylaxis SAE rates.

    Can't imagine why CDC would lie about SAEs.  Why would they need to, if the shots are "safe and effective?"

    Unless...

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 10:54pm

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1617

    7

    The double standard; Loving Remdesivir

    One would think, since almost every hospital in the country will give their hospitalized Covid-19 patients Remdesivir, and given the degree to which the positive looking Ivermectin studies get brushed off... that the comparative data for Remdesivir would be really stunningly good.  As Chris has stated, and as most of us have known since Fauci's "game changer" announcement after the goal-post changed study... it's actually a big nothing burger;

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  • Sun, Sep 19, 2021 - 11:30pm

    ta2021Ag

    ta2021Ag

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    Joined: Mar 21 2020

    Posts: 28

    1

    ta2021Ag said:

    Can please send some to us!   Big Thanks!

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  • Mon, Sep 20, 2021 - 12:32am

    Mark_BC

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2010

    Posts: 577

    10

    Mark_BC said:

    For the original India data, if you type in "covid stats india by state" you will get all of the charts popping up that are shown in the Twitter posts above. It isn't in a website, it is in the search results and I can't figure out how to get to the original site or data. I did find this government website which lists the numbers.

    https://www.mygov.in/covid-19

    Click on Statewide Status and you will see that, yes, Uttar Pradesh indeed has 193 active cases of Covid. That isn't hospitalizations, that is active cases. Out of 230,000,000 people. Kerala has 181,411 cases out of 36,000,000 people. If that doesn't provide the data to end the Ivermectin vs. vaccine debate, nothing will. Case closed. It's not about data anymore.

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  • Mon, Sep 20, 2021 - 11:35am

    Spork

    Spork

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    11

    Spork said:

    Nice game of Troll Tennis on this thread, well played, all.

    Just thought I'd drop in here a riposte to the 'horse dewormer' propaganda, which is to point out the analagous absurdity of calling Penicillin based antibiotics "bread mold" or suchlike gratuitious denigration.

    Oh No! They give bread mold to our dogs cats and horses as well!!

    https://www.petmd.com/pet-medication/penicillin

     

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  • Mon, Sep 20, 2021 - 11:38am

    erickraft289@gmail.com

    [email protected]

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    Joined: Jun 03 2021

    Posts: 1

    Thanks google

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  • Mon, Sep 20, 2021 - 12:53pm

    LeWas

    LeWas

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    9

    Ivermectin

    Hello, my name is Les Wascoe. I am a new member,, I joined yesterday. I live in the (Dis)United Kingdom. One of my main reasons for joining this site, apart from hearing more from the excellent Dr. Chris Martenson, is to try and find somewhere that I can buy Ivermectin. I aam nearly 70 years old and I will never allow anyone to inject an experimental mRNA into me. I have so far avoided catching Covid, but I do not know how long my luck will hold. If you could advise me on how to procure ivermectin, just in case I do catch the dreaded virus, I would be extremely grateful.

    Thankyou.

    Les

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  • Mon, Sep 20, 2021 - 1:27pm

    sand_kitty

    sand_kitty

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    LeWas

    Ivermectin is difficult to obtain right now.  A friend in Southern California was only able to find ONE website that would sell to her, Tractor Supply.  Though Ivermectin itself is used both in human and veterinary medicine, this preparation is a vet preparation and has not been evaluated for use in humans.  (Though there is no reason to suspect that it will behave any differently than other preparations that have been evaluated and approved in humans.)

    https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/durvet-ivermectin-paste-187-608-g?cm_vc=-10005

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  • Mon, Sep 20, 2021 - 2:00pm

    DaveDD

    DaveDD

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    Posts: 521

    15

    About being in Love

    I like to read. Especially the old Russian writers like Tolstoy, Tsjechov and Dostojevski, and of course Goncharov. They brilliantly disect human nature, although written in bygone ages, they are still highly relevant. German writers however are my absolute favorite. "Vielleicht Esther" written by Katja Petrowskaja (link) is my absolute favorite, I would say, it is a must read, preferable in German, but any other language is also OK. Both the prewar and postwar German literature captures the human nature in al its awfulness, but even more, in its beauty and vulnerability, that is, it is pervaded of a deep extistensial perspective.

    The reason why I write this is this, when you read Goethe, he sometimes writes that "this man was in love with this child" or something like that. "Being in love" is in our pretty rotten culture highly sexualized, while in the past it was used to describe a feeling of joy of being in the present of a person that touches you.

    After reading the comments written in this thread, I'm daring to share with you that I'm in love with this community, simple as that.

    Thanks, Dave

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  • Mon, Sep 20, 2021 - 2:40pm

    helmadi

    helmadi

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    2

    Abrien Aguirre on Covid Units

    https://odysee.com/@Priapus:7/Abrien:0

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  • Mon, Sep 20, 2021 - 2:50pm

    silver-vibes

    silver-vibes

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    silver-vibes said:

    @ Sand_Puppy

    Thanks to you I bought a couple of cases of the horse IVM several weeks back. Recently I saw that the prices doubled from when I bought, then it switched to sold out for the first few vet sites I checked  in the past couple of days. I've seen them on Amazon from private sellers but there going for 30ish bucks a tube! (Normal is 3-4 bucks).

    For anyone wondering a couple of my +- 180lb horses has taken several doses with zero issues. The dosing is pretty much the same from 4 legged to 2 legged creatures. Be prepared for the potential of feeling a smidge crappy from the die-off sensation of parasites the horse may be carrying already.

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  • Mon, Sep 20, 2021 - 2:50pm

    YZ_from_Katy_TX

    YZ_from_Katy_TX

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    Joined: Jun 12 2020

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    2

    blast from the past

    I always wondered why there is so little news from abroad on mainstream TV. E.g. a few months ago, there seemed to be an infinite number of stories about the C19 catastrophe in India. And now - not a squeak.

    Here are a few links I found going back through the articles. Took about 10 min, so maybe there are better ones.

    https://www.peakprosperity.com/covid-19-vindication-hcq-ivermectin-work/

    https://www.peakprosperity.com/it-doesnt-have-to-be-this-way/

    https://www.peakprosperity.com/private-profits-vs-public-health/

    https://www.peakprosperity.com/peak-personalities-dr-pierre-kory-part-1/

     

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  • Mon, Sep 20, 2021 - 2:55pm

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1617

    9

    Beautiful thoughts DaveDD...

    "Being in love" is in our pretty rotten culture highly sexualized, while in the past it was used to describe a feeling of joy of being in the present of a person that touches you.

    After reading the comments written in this thread, I'm daring to share with you that I'm in love with this community, simple as that.

    I think it's possible that the extreme ugliness of our current situation is helping to drive an opposing Zeitgeist, a re-awakening of sorts.  I feel it too.. I have always been drawn to NDE stories (near death experience) and have found myself watching them again on Youtube.. here for instance;  https://www.youtube.com/c/ShamanOaks/videos

    A near universal report back from these experiences is the feeling of being loved and accepted.. by a love that is so powerful and enveloping that words cannot adequately describe it.  I am trying to use the lessons learned by these folks who have glimpsed the eternal to be more loving in my approach to this insanity.. to temper my darker feelings of the war that might be ahead.

    Having read the existentialists (e.g. Sartre's Nausea) earlier in my life, the NDE stories give my highly rational brain a convincing reason (at least convincing to my own subconscious, which is where the real convincing needs to take place) to reject this notion that life has no real meaning.  Why do I say this?  Well, aside from many of the NDE stories having similar themes, there is in fact one very common, and not readily falsifiable proof point that something very real happened;  The people recollecting these experiences see things that really happened, but that they could not have otherwise seen laying "dead" in a hospital or elsewhere.  For instance, in one story, after her spirit left her body, a woman saw her sister, who was in the process of rushing to the hospital, stop at a gas station, wearing mismatched clothing because she left in such a rush, and text, "hang in there kiddo".  This indeed had happened, and there are many such cases like it.

    I too Love this community.

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  • Mon, Sep 20, 2021 - 2:59pm

    tamarawadams

    tamarawadams

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    tamarawadams said:

    Too many gummy bears would cause diarrhea... trust me, I am a pharmacist. I know what is best for you. I would not dispense them. 😉

     

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  • Mon, Sep 20, 2021 - 3:23pm

    Acorn Endeavors

    Acorn Endeavors

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    1

    Check Drug Interactions with Ivermectin

    I'd been thinking about taking Ivermectin since it's possible some of the effects I'm feeling are long COVID.  While I know IVM is an extremely safe medicine, I checked on potential drug interactions and found that several of the things I'm taking were contraindicated with IVM.

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  • Mon, Sep 20, 2021 - 3:34pm

    Quercus bicolor

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Mar 19 2008

    Posts: 1013

    5

    Haha - courtesy of our favorite monopolistic tech company who formerly did no evil

    Yes, you have to use a particular search engine to find the charts.

    Here are the stats for for the week ending yesterday, September 19, 2021

    .                                      Kerala    Uttar Pradesh     Ratio (Kerala/Uttar Pradesh)

    cases                              19005                   17

    deaths                                149               0.56

    death rate                    0.78%                  2%

    population (millions)   34.8.                241

    cases/million                  546                 0.07                7800

    deaths/million              4.28            0.0023                 1861

    It would be valuable to have a mini new cases plot for each state since March grouped by Ivermectin policy.  There are 4 main profiles: 1) those that look like Uttar Pradesh, 2) those that look like Kerala, 3) those that look like India as a whole (kind of like Uttar Pradesh but cases returned to a higher baseline after the outbreak and 4) those that look like Kerala, but since July have come gradually down and are now around 10-25% of the peak.

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  • Mon, Sep 20, 2021 - 3:40pm

    Friedrichs_teeth

    Friedrichs_teeth

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    Acorn, do you have a list?

    I will post it in my sticky.

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  • Mon, Sep 20, 2021 - 3:49pm

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1617

    0

    Regarding India, there is this chart by JChamie...

    One has to go way down his feed to find it.. not sure he has updated it in a few weeks time.  https://twitter.com/jjchamie

    And this one;

     

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  • Mon, Sep 20, 2021 - 3:49pm

    Kat43

    Kat43

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    Kat43 said:

    I recall that some of the drug contraindications did not rule out taking ivermectin but might warrant that the dosage of the other drug is adjusted.

    Providing a list runs the risk that it might appear to be complete.  People should always check for possible contraindications.

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  • Mon, Sep 20, 2021 - 4:08pm

    Oliveoilguy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Jun 29 2012

    Posts: 1317

    0

    Death Rate Calculation?

    How is the Death Rate Calculated? It looks worse in Uttar Pradesh. But clearly India is a real time study on IVM.

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  • Mon, Sep 20, 2021 - 4:12pm

    Acorn Endeavors

    Acorn Endeavors

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    Joined: Mar 02 2020

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    1

    Acorn Endeavors said:

    F_T  I don't know about the accuracy of this website, but this is what I found:

    https://www.drugs.com/drug-interactions/ivermectin.html

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  • Mon, Sep 20, 2021 - 4:12pm

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1617

    5

    Is the worm turning? News out of Brazil

    http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/Videos.php/2021/09/19/the-mayor-and-health-secretary

    Brazil The mayor and health secretary of Guaruja (Brazil) have been arrested.The two politicians are accused of corruption in connection with the Corona measures. The Independence Day protests have had an impact. President Bolsonaro, who is critical of the measures, was empowered by the mass protests on Independence Day to take consistent action against the corruption of the Corona measures supporters. These two corrupt pieces of political shit were taking money from Phizer, Bill Gates and others to repress and lie to the Brazilian people. The party's over. This needs to start happening in the United States.

     

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  • Mon, Sep 20, 2021 - 4:17pm

    Canuck21

    Canuck21

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    1

    Ivermectin in the UK

    LeWas, I have no idea if this would still work but I copied this posting off a recent chat string on one of the FLCCC's recent weekly seminars -- otherwise try going to Spain and buying it over the counter.

    Scott Mitchell to Panelists and Attendees (8:06 PM)

    Anyone looking for Ivermectin in the UK on prescription please contact me on [email protected]

    http://medisolve.org/ivermectin/

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  • Mon, Sep 20, 2021 - 4:20pm

    Oliveoilguy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Jun 29 2012

    Posts: 1317

    10

    Dr. Says to back off IVM prophylaxis…

    We had an appointment with a local Dr. who prescribes IVM, HCQ, and whatever else you might need to fend off Covid.

    He suggested that I go to 1 dose of IVM every 3 weeks (I’ve been 200mcg/kg once a week) and to take it in times of exposure. I will be flying in 3 days, so he said to take a dose 3 days before I fly and then the day before to build resistance. Otherwise he thinks there is not enough safety data on the long term cumulative effects of IVM on the liver.

    I now have a doctor on call. I have his contact number and all the drugs I might need like prednisone and inhaled budesonide…..because we live remote ……and if we get sick, we will call him and he can conduct our treatment by text.

    I feel a great sense of relief and preparedness.

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  • Mon, Sep 20, 2021 - 4:26pm

    skywolf

    skywolf

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    skywolf said:

    Really? Nothing on the newsfeeds about it... yet. THough I found this interesting:  https://en.mercopress.com/2021/09/18/brazilian-president-and-british-pm-to-meet-privately-in-nyc-before-un-speech

     

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  • Mon, Sep 20, 2021 - 4:27pm

    Quercus bicolor

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Mar 19 2008

    Posts: 1013

    1

    Uttar Pradesh has so few cases ...

    that the death rates are unreliable.  Either that or there is a unique profile to the people testing positive.

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  • Mon, Sep 20, 2021 - 7:12pm

    summitday113

    summitday113

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    Joined: Mar 29 2020

    Posts: 47

    0

    OK to talk about vaccine induced menstrual cycle changes?

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/18/covid-vaccine-changes-menstrual-cycles

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  • Mon, Sep 20, 2021 - 8:26pm

    mirroredname

    mirroredname

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    Joined: Jun 13 2021

    Posts: 48

    1

    Ivermectin & FLCCC

    Hello ~  Here is the link to pharmacies from the FLCCC covid care website.

    Pharmacies

    You will have to scroll through the list, but it does state whether the pharmacy ships to international addresses.  And then too, know what the policies are about shipping into the UK.  Good luck!

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  • Mon, Sep 20, 2021 - 8:28pm

    helmadi

    helmadi

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    Joined: May 23 2021

    Posts: 88

    10

    Federal Govt HHS Whistleblower Goes Public With Secret Recordings "Vaccine is Full of Sh*t"

    https://odysee.com/@ProjectVeritas:7/part-1-federal-govt-hhs-whistleblower:9

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  • Mon, Sep 20, 2021 - 9:25pm

    JoshuaGreen

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    JoshuaGreen said:

    Continuing on this thread, I've started digging into this data.  Naturally, I go into this with my own biases, and that likely colors my questions and interpretations.  Given that, here's what I'm thinking.

    Your comments as well as what I'm finding agree about anaphylaxis being severe and appearing quickly.  Given the latter, I would expect most of the serious cases to appear within or soon after the mandatory waiting periods after vaccinations, and I would expect all of those cases to be easily treated and reported to VAERS.  I therefore doubt that (m)any of those cases are going underreported.

    With that in mind, I started looking through the CDC's original data.  Unfortunately, they don't make it clear how many or even which VAERS reports they started with.  I tried searching the database myself, but the granularity of results only seems to be at the level of month.  The CDC's report covers the period 12/14/2020-1/18/2021, while searching over all ANAPHYLA* reports in the database yields 61 for December 2020 and 272 for January 2021.  I have no idea how much duplication is there, nor how many of those reports fall within the CDC's window.  It would be nice if they would provide this data, as it would give some idea of what fraction of the VAERS data they think is valid, and that would help bolster (or refute) the assertion that the VAERS data shouldn't be taken literally.

    Considering now the later study, I'll note that they seem to follow the same diagnostic criteria as the CDC.  This should make the results comparable, and this study seems like a good effort to get at ground truth, hence the discrepancy is worth explaining.

    If VAERS underreporting is a primary factor, then we have to keep in mind that different levels of events are more likely to be reported than others.  As noted above, I suspect all quick, severe (as in noticed and requiring treatment) to be reported.  If the latter study found more cases that most people wouldn't have noticed or cared about (analogous to the difference between IFR and CFR), then the two values aren't really comparable.  Fortunately, this can be somewhat untangled if the studies themselves assign severity to the cases; that's something I still need to check.

    At least one possible confounder concerns the nature of the patients, who may be qualitatively different in a number of ways.  The nature of the population that could actually find a vaccine in 12/14/2020-1/18/2021 is likely qualitatively different from the set of Mass General Brigham employees who received vaccination.  Along these lines, the latter population may have been more inclined to get vaccinated despite any personal medical issues given their potential exposure and relative ease of access.  (Purely speculatively, it's also conceivable that there may have been some sort of job-related mandate.)  Those outside of such settings would have struggled to make an appointment, and those with any reason to decline the vaccine would have likely simply opted out or at least waited until later when appointments became plentiful.

    Obviously there's more digging to be done here, but I can believe that the statistics from the latter study are what we'll see if we mandate that everyone be vaccinated, regardless of known medical issues.  I don't think we should do that, but it's worth noting that even that study notes that those statistics are in line with what we'd expect from any medical procedure, hence they don't obviously indicate anything particularly bad about these injections.

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  • Mon, Sep 20, 2021 - 11:25pm

    Quercus bicolor

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    That Mass General Brigham study was hugely statistically significant

    At least 1 symptom survey was completed by 52 805....

    Anaphylaxis was confirmed in 16 employees (0.025% [95% CI, 0.014%-0.040%])

    So 16/52805 gives an anaphylaxis rate of 0.025% (1/4000) with a 95% confidence interval of 0.014-0.04%.  Since 2.5% of the possible distribution of anaphylaxis incidence rate lies below and above that confidence interval, it is also stating that there is only a 2.5% chance that the actual frequency is < 0.014% (1 in 7000).  Given the shape of a normal distribution and the fact that the lower end is limited by zero (we can see that the confidence interval goes from 0.011 below to 0.015 above the computed value), I bet the probability that the actual rate is < 1/10,000 is perhaps 0.2 to 0.5%.

    Yet you write

    I would expect all of those cases to be easily treated and reported to VAERS.  I therefore doubt that (m)any of those cases are going underreported.

    In other words, you expect that the rate in VAERS is correct based on what data? And in spite of the huge statistical significance of the study?

    If you want to see two snapshots of just how that VAERS reporting is going, check out these two videos.  They are both in depth interviews with frontline medical workers who have first hand experience of just how few events are reported to VAERS:

    https://odysee.com/@ProjectVeritas:7/part-1-federal-govt-hhs-whistleblower:9

    “THESE PATIENTS DESERVE TO BE HEARD” -VAERS WHISTLEBLOWER

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  • Mon, Sep 20, 2021 - 11:40pm

    davefairtex

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    ivermectin drug interactions: from 2016 vs now

    So back in 2016, when Ivermectin was still an "enigmatic multifaceted wonder drug" - i.e. before it became "important" to "someone" , the 40-year-old-wonder-drug had 37 interactions.

    Today, Ivermectin Horse Dewormer has 77 interactions.

    "How it started:"

    https://web.archive.org/web/20160525022857/http://www.drugs.com/drug-interactions/ivermectin-index.html

    Currently displaying all 37 drugs (90 brand and generic names) known to interact with ivermectin.

    "How its going":

    https://www.drugs.com/drug-interactions/ivermectin-index.html

    Currently displaying a list of 77 drugs known to interact with ivermectin.

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  • Tue, Sep 21, 2021 - 12:28am

    davefairtex

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    confounders

    Josh-

     The nature of the population that could actually find a vaccine in 12/14/2020-1/18/2021 is likely qualitatively different from the set of Mass General Brigham employees who received vaccination.

    That's a good point - I agree with that.  For instance, a subset of the "early vax" group (through Jan 2021) is probably substantially older.  However, another subset was healthcare workers - and that group would be a perfect match.   But the older folks confuse the issue.  Is an older group less likely to get anaphylaxis, or more likely?  I have no idea.  I could definitely see the answer being "less likely" though.  Their immune response is well known to be much weaker.

    So I have 2 thoughts:

    1) It still doesn't excuse CDC from not updating their website to reflect the flow of new information received from VAERS.  CDC is keeping what is clearly a horribly undercounted anaphylaxis rate on their website.  This would be called "harmful vaccine disinformation" if anyone else did it, and grounds for a lawsuit for product misrepresentation if the manufacturer did it.  After all - they're off by AT LEAST a FACTOR of 61, at least for this age group!  That's the very definition of disinformation!!

    And that's the most-benign interpretation: CDC lying - egregiously - about a serious negative outcome.  "Oh I don't need to bother to take my epi-pen - just a 2-in-a-million chance...safe and effective..."

    2) I still believe VAERS badly undercounts events.  VAERS doesn't prompt anyone to fill out a form.   That's especially true if someone dies.  Who knows if some dead person was vaccinated?  The ER nurse who couldn't revive them?  The EMT that picked up the unconscious victim?  The guy at the mortuary?   Someone has to a) know about the shot, b) care enough to spend 30-60 minutes reporting it, and c) know what site to go to.  And if you're that ER nurse, do you have time (or energy) to do this after your 12-hour shift?  And do you even know they got the shot?

    Fortunately, we can *still* quantify this "voluntary vs prompted" undercounting by locating an age-matched set of VAERS reports (say over the last 6 months) for anaphylaxis, and see how many pop up.  Shouldn't be hard.

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  • Tue, Sep 21, 2021 - 3:06am

    davefairtex

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    Project Veritas: nurse HHS whistleblower & the vaccine

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obdI7tgKLtA

    [at 9:30] This RN whistleblower came forward because a co-worker was forced to take the shot, AFTER WORKING ICU FOR 18 MONTHS, and died 2 weeks later.

    My observation: This is how the Oligarchy is treating our "front line heroes."  They are held out as fear-porn propaganda props for the first 18 months, and then they are brutally sacrificed when they are no longer useful to the narrative.

    Little known fact: during a pandemic, nurses have one of the highest risks of infection of any profession in the world.  It is around 80%.  The nurse in question, now deceased, knowingly took this risk, served the country, and then died as a result of the mandatory vaccination campaign instituted by President Grandpa's handlers and higher-ups.  Whoever they are.

    "Nobody - NOBODY - should have to decide between their livelihood, being a 'part of the team in the hospital', or take the vaccine."

    Nurses have to deal routinely with death.  They don't cry easily.  They are required to be tough.  This nurse breaks down and cries when she thinks of her co-worker that was coerced into taking the shot, and subsequently died.

    What has happened - is happening - is wrong on so many levels.

    Must see.  I don't think the Project Veritas editing was all that great - but I found the underlying story of this Nurse and her experience to be very compelling.

    VAERS Tidbit @ 7:27:

    "And how many have you seen - that have gotten vaccinated here..."

    "That got sick, side effects?  A lot. Have you seen it too?"

    "Yes!  But I'm like - who's writing the VAERS report?"

    "Nobody, because it takes a half an hour to write the damn thing."

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  • Tue, Sep 21, 2021 - 4:41am

    Arthur Robey

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    "They"

    Whoever they are.

    Dox the Bastards.

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  • Tue, Sep 21, 2021 - 5:04am

    laku334

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    Project Veritas, MedCram, and VAERS

    I was wondering when someone points out the Project Veritas reveal.

    There was a neutral (pro-vaccine) attempt at a discussion by MedCram which included e.g. talk and "debunk" of the VAERS data https://youtu.be/pp-nPZETLTo?t=2139

    (also other interesting topics e.g. Ivermectin)

    One of the guests is Dr. Rhonda Patrick whom I've followed for a few years on other health and nutrition related topics, she also was a recent guest on JRE podcast and has always seemed very reasonable and educated.

    Anyway, the guests make good point about interpreting the VAERS data, mainly that doctors are required by law to report any adverse effect, and secondly, that due to the emergency use authorization of the vaccine, the reporting is much more broad. So if I understood correctly, doctors are supposed to report any adverse effect (including death?) even if they do not believe it was caused by the vaccine. Not sure what is the time frame here, are they e.g. supposed to report a death 10, 20, or 50 days after the jab?

    In conclusion, their main argument is that the VAERS data is thus hugely over-reported, but when I then see in contrast these types of whistle blower videos from nurses telling me it's the opposite it all becomes very suspect.

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  • Tue, Sep 21, 2021 - 6:27am

    Canuck21

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    Canuck21 said:

    For the record, same video as in post #203. And definitely worth watching. She was deliberately pushing her colleagues to speak, though, this was not accidental.

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  • Tue, Sep 21, 2021 - 7:58am

    Oliveoilguy

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    Causal Linkage in VAERS and Covid deaths

    Watching MedCram and listening to their argument that you can not establish a causal link between vaccination events and death events even within a 48 hour period…is suspect and appears to be biased science. Also they take the Covid death stats and categorize those death reports as an absolute causal link to covid and never attributed to co-morbidities. Then they say that many Post Vaccine deaths are just normal annual deaths.

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  • Tue, Sep 21, 2021 - 8:50am

    Jeff34

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    Bromhexine source

    Hi all,

    Anyone looking to buy bromhexine, here you go www.heatlhypill.com . I found them and bought 4 boxes of bromhexine, the prices are really good I think cheaper then I used to pay at eBay. It took around 10 working days for parcel to arrive to US, and the product is good. They also provide the confirmation  email and the tracking number when the parcel is dispatched so you can track it. Also the expiry date is in 2025 which was nice to see. Hope it is useful!

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  • Tue, Sep 21, 2021 - 9:09am

    Kat43

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    Kat43 said:

    I have a couple boxes of Bromhexine and decided I should order more.  I really like its potential (Google indicates it crosses the blood brain barrier, which IVM does not) but it isn't something I can recommend to anyone else who needs immediate help so I would need to be able to hand it out.  The company is based in Lithuania and the product insert is definitely not in English!  I was pleased with the service during my first order.  I'm amused by the URL because I'm wondering if the misspelling is intentional or just a language difference.

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  • Tue, Sep 21, 2021 - 9:24am

    sand_kitty

    sand_kitty

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    Reporting Vaccine Adverse Events is NOT Mandatory

    1.   There is no legal requirement, hospital policy or state regulation requiring doctors to report adverse events following vaccinations.

    2.  There are no policies that encourage VAERS reporting on any subject at any time or under any circumstances.  In my 33 years professional career as a physician I have never made a VAERS report.  I confess that I don't even know how to do this.  I have never heard of another colleague who has ever made a report to VAERS either.

    ----

    There are a number of infections diseases where mandatory reporting to the State Health Department is required:  Hepatitis, gonorrhea, chlamydia, syphilis, measles, TB, etc.

    No requirements to report anything about vaccines to anyone.

     

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  • Tue, Sep 21, 2021 - 9:36am

    davefairtex

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    how could you know?

    SP!  How on earth could you possibly know this?  Its not like you're a doctor working in the ED for the past 20 years or anything....

    Oh.

    [Sorry.  Channeling Alex Berenson.]

    Seriously.  Thanks for the reporting from within the belly of the beast.

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  • Tue, Sep 21, 2021 - 9:37am

    Prairie Rose

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    Reporting adverse events

    It was understanding that physicians were supposed to use PRISM to report adverse rxns to vaccines. I heard a doctor on a podcast complain that that system had been shut down recently. He was baffled by that decision because the issues with vaccines we are worried about now was exactly why the program had been built in the first place.  I cannot find the podcast or video now, but I did find an article about it:

    Vaccine safety monitoring in the age of the COVID-19 pandemic

     

    Edited to add a news story:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/covid-vaccine-safety-system-has-gaps-that-may-miss-unexpected-side-effects-experts-say/ar-BB1ghqBO

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  • Tue, Sep 21, 2021 - 9:38am

    Jeff34

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    Jeff34 said:

    Indeed, the website name is helarious. In fact few days ago I wanted to visit their web to look for other products, and couldn't remember it!!! But did find out through the paypal payment.

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  • Tue, Sep 21, 2021 - 1:31pm

    Acorn Endeavors

    Acorn Endeavors

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    Thanks, Dave!

    Thanks for posting this, Dave.  At the end of the busy day, when your mind empties a bit and you have the bandwidth to wrestle with oddities of the day, I thought "what's the chance that so many of the OTC interactions with IVM are once recommended in prophylactic and COVID self-treatment?"  It was then I realized I'd been had and the data had been doctored.  It's amazing how extensive the control of the narrative is.  Thanks for point it out!

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  • Tue, Sep 21, 2021 - 2:10pm

    YZ_from_Katy_TX

    YZ_from_Katy_TX

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    YZ_from_Katy_TX said:

    I believe the misspelling is intentional as the Lithuanian healthy (sveikas) is not close. However, the healthypill domain is for sale for over 3K

    https://www.hugedomains.com/domain_profile.cfm?d=healthypill&e=com

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  • Tue, Sep 21, 2021 - 5:14pm

    helmadi

    helmadi

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    Wuhan scientists planned to release coronaviruses into cave bats 18 months before outbreak

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/09/21/wuhan-scientists-planned-releaseskin-penetrating-nanoparticles/

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  • Tue, Sep 21, 2021 - 5:35pm

    gbell12

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    gbell12 said:

    Is that not true? Please explain.

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  • Tue, Sep 21, 2021 - 6:51pm

    GoneGalt

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    Anyone else thinking this?

    JoshuaGreen = DeepStatePlant.

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  • Tue, Sep 21, 2021 - 7:09pm

    Kathy

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    TB reporting

    I’m wondering how many TB cases Virginia is getting with all the new folks from Afghanistan.

    Is this reported somewhere in the Virginia health department system or would they end up being reported somewhere else?

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  • Tue, Sep 21, 2021 - 7:48pm

    Disco Bear

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    CDC website does say SOME adverse reactions are required to be reported

    sand_puppy, the CDC website does say SOME adverse reactions to vaccinations are required to be reported.

    Go to https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/ensuringsafety/monitoring/vaers/index.html and look where it says the following under the section "Top 6 Things to Know About VAERS":

    4  Healthcare providers and vaccine manufacturers are required by law to report certain events after vaccination.
    Here's a screen grab of that section of the CDC webpage:
    For those wondering where this VAERS controversy first came up, please go to the Veritas video  and stop the video at 1:10.

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  • Tue, Sep 21, 2021 - 8:23pm

    mikies123

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    The real safety data is contained in the Vaccine Safety Data Link. reply to 225, 217, 215

    https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/ensuringsafety/monitoring/vsd/index.html

    This is a system jointly controled by Kaiser Permanente & CDC.  They will not let independent scientist/researchers into this data base.  It is heavily guarded because that is where the truth lies of just how many children are injured, learning disabled, seizures,  autism, killed, by their routine safe and effective childhood vaccines, some administered like the hepatitis B on the day of birth.

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  • Tue, Sep 21, 2021 - 9:48pm

    richcabot

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    no, it's not true

    Go to https://c19ivermectin.com/

    It is a compendium of all the studies that have been done on Ivermectin.

    You can find similar assessment of other treatments at https://c19early.com/

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  • Tue, Sep 21, 2021 - 9:50pm

    Island girl

    Island girl

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    The Ivermectin story from the perspective of hospitalized Ohio patient suing for access

    Trending story in Ohio - this article summarizes the fight to get Ivermectin for a hospitalized - weaves in the backstory on Ivermectin effectiveness and the conflicts of interest involved

    https://www.theohiopressnetwork.com/news/ohio/ivermectin-the-rest-of-the-story/article_a0cc3758-1a69-11ec-ba8f-334ce5fb6a80.html

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  • Wed, Sep 22, 2021 - 9:19am

    davefairtex

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    that Joshua fellow

    So whatever happened to that Joshua fellow?  I was kinda hoping he'd use his considerable intellect to honestly analyze the data I handed him.

    CDC and it's "2-5 per million anaphylaxis rate" webpage remains as either 1) a particularly absurd example of "Vaccine Disinformation" - one that would get the manufacturer at the business end of a court case, or 2) describing a 60:1 under-reporting rate in VAERS.

    I was kinda hoping he'd tell us which one it was.

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  • Wed, Sep 22, 2021 - 9:34am

    Jim H

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    Speaking of Covid vax and anaphylaxis

    One of my favorite commentators, an anon MD who has read the VAERS reports extensively, comments that this vax is unique in causing anaphylactic reactions that are at times days after the shot itself... what could possibly be going on in your body days after a shot?  Hmmmmm... I can't think of anything that would cause this... hmmmmm?  Anyway, here's her commentary on this very specific subject.  CONNECT DOTS;

    AMM, MD - VAERS Covid vaccine adverse events
    Delayed and protracted anaphylaxis:
    52yo F nurse w history of allergy to egg and flu shot; medical history of high blood pressure
    4 hours after Pfizer dose 1:
    “developed difficulty swallowing, lightheaded, she went home but ended up in ER with anaphylaxis treated with Epinephrine, solumedrol and benadryl. She was discharged that evening from the ER, symptoms resolved. The same symptoms started the next day…this time symptoms were much quicker onset, she left work for ER and had totally obstructed airway and stridor, inability to talk. She was hospitalized after ER treatment and was discharged the next day” 1657912

    And a follow-on post;

    https://t.me/AMM_MD/268

    AMM, MD - VAERS Covid vaccine adverse events
    If you require an epi pen, keep it on you for several DAYS after your covid vax. Covid vax is unlike all other vax. Your risk is not over soon after the shot has been administered.
    199views
    13:37

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  • Wed, Sep 22, 2021 - 10:40am

    davefairtex

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    vax delayed-onset/repeated allergy

    Well that's a unfortunate set of responses.  Are they allergic to the LNPs, or the fake spike protein?  How long do the LNP's float around the system?

    I wish we knew this stuff.  Nothing like a multi-billion-person clinical trial where they gaslight the control group, and pretend there aren't any adverse events in the treatment group.

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  • Wed, Sep 22, 2021 - 11:02am

    Quercus bicolor

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    Joshua

    I don't know Dave, but just to brag a little, maybe it was my post #205 that threw him off balance.  Or maybe someone elses?

    Honestly, I don't want to scare anyone away or cause them to cling to their biases even more tightly.  Joshua, I hope to hear from you again.

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  • Wed, Sep 22, 2021 - 11:33am

    Kat43

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    Joshua

    From the Urban Dictionary's definition of seagull manager:

    A manager who flies in, makes a lot of noise, craps on everything, and then leaves. Fred never accomplishes anything. All he does is come in here every now and then, complain about deadlines, puts more work on us, then goes back to surfing the intraweb.

    That's how I feel about our Joshua troll, who carefully set up his account more than a year ago and then took off to harass other sites.  Fine with me if he's gone, although I have enjoyed many of the putdowns he's received.

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  • Wed, Sep 22, 2021 - 11:34am

    DaveDD

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    DaveDD said:

    In all honesty, I think he will be back, under yet a different name...

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  • Wed, Sep 22, 2021 - 2:19pm

    davefairtex

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    on a mission

    Our friend Joshua definitely did seem to be here on a mission of some sort.  "I'm going to fact-check Chris."  Or something like that.  Perhaps he worked for the Trusted News Initiative.  "Making the world safe for democracy."  Or something.

    I did go look at his previous postings.  I didn't see any.  Maybe his account got popped?

    I was really looking forward to his response.

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  • Wed, Sep 22, 2021 - 3:01pm

    Disco Bear

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    JG's Profile: no topics started; no replies created

    JoshuaGreen's Profile:  no topics started; no replies created.  But he has made comments/posts, so possibly there is a weakness in how Peak Prosperity's profile stats are displayed.  Post 204 in this thread is his and it is a reply to post 9, and it shows JG has made 32 posts.  This is very strange.

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  • Wed, Sep 22, 2021 - 3:14pm

    thatchmo

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    thatchmo said:

    Interesting, Hawaii's Lieutenant Governor's name is Josh Green, MD.  As I recall, he knocked heads with the governor about Covid issues early on.  Aloha, Steve

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  • Wed, Sep 22, 2021 - 5:12pm

    Quercus bicolor

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    problem with replies history

    When I look at my own replies, some are missing, perhaps on the ones from the past few days.  perhaps they only get indexed every so often.

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  • Wed, Sep 22, 2021 - 6:42pm

    Grover

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    Uttar Pradesh Turnaround Using Ivermectin

    Martin Armstrong wrote a short post with a link to this story. There are lots of interesting items in this article. I'll post and comment on the ones I find most interesting.

    https://trialsitenews.com/msn-showcases-the-amazing-uttar-pradesh-turnaround-the-ivermectin-based-home-medicine-kits/

    MSN appears to be the first mainstream news source to recognize the amazing feat accomplished by the health agencies in India’s most populous state. The state experienced a massive spike in infections by April, but just two months later, the turnaround was well on its way, and what ensued should have been the story of the year.

    Wow! Why would MSN push an utterly positive story about an off-patent drug that can be manufactured by anyone capable? Where's the profit potential?

    WHO reported on the amazing health agency effort via its website, titled “Going the Last Mile to Stop COVID-19” the agency acknowledged government health teams were “moving across 97,941 villages, 75 districts over five days for this activity.”

    No mention of the word "Ivermectin".

    WHO went on the offense once India established Ivermectin on its national protocol. WHO’s chief scientist Soumya Swaminathan tweeted that Ivermectin should not be used, referencing Merck’s warning about the drug. See TrialSite’s entry on the Merck-Ivermectin warning topic. Of course, this tweet triggered the Indian bar association lawsuit against WHO. Indirectly including Merck in her tweet, WHO’s Dr. Swaminathan insulted not only millions of people but also evidenced her true naivety.

    I bolded that last sentence. The people felt insulted and lawyers stepped up to the plate and sued the WHO. As you may know, Ivermectin is just a generic drug now. As such, Merck's profit potential on this drug is severely limited. It behooves them to downplay Ivermectin in order to promote an on-patent drug that they are developing -Molnupiravir.

    Much of the media over the past couple of months exploited a reference made by the FDA and CDC to data from the Association of Poison Control Centers (AAPCC) indicating a three-fold increase in Ivermectin-related calls to one of their 55 poison control centers.

    TrialSite was able to secure that dataOur analysts found that the number of calls increased from 435 to 1,143 and that only 1% of the calls involved anything serious (11 incidents). There were no deaths despite legitimate physician prescriptions increasing from a few thousand per month to nearly 90,000. TrialSite determined, based on the data hand sanitizer (4 deaths), was more dangerous. We also noted that the media was confusing legitimate physician-to-patient prescriptions versus the illicit use of the veterinary version of the drug.

    The bolding is mine. I really had to laugh that hand sanitizer caused more deaths than Ivermectin. Yet, I've heard stories on the local news that ICUs are full of people being admitted due to overdosing on Ivermectin.

    I was really astonished by the fact that MSN is showing this story. Is it a crack that will widen to a gulf? Or, is it something else? I'm glad that Uttar Pradesh was able to essentially clear their 230 million inhabitants of Covid using a cheap and effective off-patent medicine - Ivermectin.

    Grover

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  • Wed, Sep 22, 2021 - 7:39pm

    ezlxq1949

    ezlxq1949

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Apr 29 2009

    Posts: 98

    5

    Academic censorship in action

    The august, science-affirming, academically-powered, trustworthy blog known as The Conversation just did it again: censorship!

    This morning they ran this: "Ivermectin shows us how hard it is to use old drugs for COVID. Here's how to do better next time"

    People started to make comments, some of which did not support the narrative. I contributed what I've posted below. About 10 minutes later I reloaded the article to see who else had made comments, and lo and behold! all comments had been deleted and the comments closed off. What a surprise. But I had to try, didn't I?

    -------

    Here are some articles to digest.

    1. Ivermectin, successfully used in India, confirmed as Covid treatment by Bombay High Court

    2. LEGAL NOTICE FOR CONTEMPT OF COURT AGAINST DR. TEDROS ADHANOM GHEBREYESUS, DR. SOUMYA SWAMINATHAN AND THE DIRECTORATE GENERAL OF HEALTH SERVICES (DGHS)

    The accused are served legal notice for their attempt to undermine the authority of the Bombay High Court and obstruct the use of Ivermectin for Covid-19 treatment.

    3. Uttar Pradesh government says early use of Ivermectin helped to keep positivity, deaths low

    Claiming that timely introduction of Ivermectin since the first wave has helped the state maintain a relatively low positivity rate despite in its high population density.

    4. HUGE: Uttar Pradesh, India Announces State Is COVID-19 Free Proving the Effectiveness of “Deworming Drug” IVERMECTIN

    5. Indian Bar Association vs WHO | Adv. Dipali Ojha with Rajiv Malhotra

    Advocate Dipali Ojha of the Indian bar association and a team of young indian lawyers have issued a legal notice to the world health organization over their blatant campaign against any alternative treatments.
    (Watch this asap before Youtube delete it.)

    The Indian and Australian stances simply do not comport. In view of the evidence from India, I would say that the Indians have it right and the Australians don't.

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  • Sat, Oct 02, 2021 - 9:45am

    larrythelogger

    larrythelogger

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    Joined: Jun 29 2014

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    4

    larrythelogger said:

    I know this is anecdotal. It is third hand but the one who told me, I trust, and yeah it happened in east Oklahoma. A guy and his wife in Rogers County are both over 65, both double vaxxed. The husband had Covid long before getting vaxxed. Both caught Covid after being vaxxed with positive tests. The doc sent them home and both got sicker. They begged their doctor for Ivermectin as they were getting worse after a two days but the medical system to which the doc belongs would not allow him to prescribe it although he wanted to. The doc told them, look, I can't prescribe Ivermectin, the same Ivermectin you can get at Atwoods or the co-op for your animals that come in easy to inject syringes that are marked with graduations by weight. If your animals ate something like a Ritz cracker, you could fool them into ingesting it instead of using the needle by squirting an amount per the animal's weight on the cracker but they still wouldn't like the taste and so that's why it's most commonly sold in syringes. Winkety-blink. They got worse but two days later the husband went to the co-op and bought some Ivermectin.  He measured out a dose estimate of his weigh and a dose for his wife's weight, put it on a cracker, they both ate one, and within four hours, every one of their symptoms were gone and they both felt fine. Poo-poo the story but I have no reason to disbelieve it. And, btw, if you want to get the shot, fine. I'm going to Atwoods.

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  • Sat, Oct 02, 2021 - 1:50pm

    richcabot

    richcabot

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Apr 05 2011

    Posts: 395

    1

    As Obesity Takes A Greater Toll In COVID Deaths, Health Officials Are Quiet

    Note the last part of that title, Health Officials Are Quiet.  They don't even want people to think about getting their kids some exercise and reducing their junk food intake.  That might endanger the success of the plandemic.

    https://www.wfae.org/health/2021-09-30/novant-says-9-of-10-children-in-covid-icus-are-overweight-but-public-health-officials-rarely-talk-about-obesity

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  • Sun, Oct 03, 2021 - 11:56am

    richcabot

    richcabot

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Apr 05 2011

    Posts: 395

    2

    CVST After COVID-19 Vaccine: New Data Confirm High Mortality Rate

    A new series of cases of cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (CVST) linked to the adenoviral vector COVID-19 vaccines has been reported, confirming the severity of the reaction and the associated high mortality rate.

    The new series comes from an international registry of consecutive patients who experienced CVST within 28 days of COVID-19 vaccination between March 29 and June 18, 2021, from 81 hospitals in 19 countries.

    https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/959992

    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaneurology/fullarticle/2784622?alert=article

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