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    Honey Badger Virus Video Update

    Only Tough Choices Remain
    by Chris Martenson

    Monday, March 2, 2020, 5:39 PM

As new cases explode all over the globe, with 5 new countries reporting their first cases, health authorities continue to give out puzzlingly incomplete, contradictory and sometimes even wrong information.

While our view on Thailand is provisionally shifted back to “contained” our view is that Egypt is the next unannounced hotspot.

Given where we are in the story, we’re going to have to perform triage, meaning making tough choices over where to apply woefully inadequate resources.

Our analysis concludes that even though there are numerous exciting vaccine candidates en route, we cannot expect them to arrive any time soon.  A vaccine is 6 – 18 months out (best case) which means that the Honey Badger virus will not be stopped before it makes a spring peak.  With luck, we’ll have a vaccine in place before the fall/winter resumption of the illness (presuming it operates like a normal flu virus, which may not be the right way to look at it.  We just don’t know).

Please, use every day to improve your circumstances.

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122 Comments

  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 5:52pm

    #1
    Goodsalt

    Goodsalt

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    6

    Thanks

    Great job as usual Chris and Adam.  This site is the go to site for COVID 19 info.  Thanks so much for keeping us informed.  I started weeks ago to prepare thanks to you.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 6:13pm

    #2
    yagasjai

    yagasjai

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    2

    Thanks, Chris!

    Thank you, Chris, for addressing the questions I raised in the previous thread about whether asymptomatic people can transmit this by aerosol. I really appreciate you looking into it and look forward to hearing what else you may discover.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 6:33pm

    #3
    karen is a farmer

    karen is a farmer

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    0

    Thank you!

    I’ve been following your advice since I began watching these videos and truly I am thankful to have logical information to plan by!

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 6:47pm

    #4
    marjay

    marjay

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    5

    Vitamin C already being used to prevent and treat COVID-19 in China and in Korea. And it is working

    Has anyone been following this????
    DOCTORS REPORTS FROM CHINA AND KOREA (OMNS)

     

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 6:47pm

    #5
    dakota

    dakota

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    5

    Delay in Posting here.

    I wish that the videos and articles were posted here on Peak Prosperity before or at the same time that they are posted to YouTube. That said, I certainly appreciate all of the work Chris and Adam do! Thank you.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 6:52pm

    #6
    Nairobi

    Nairobi

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    Estimating total numbers of viral infection rates

    So just out of curiosity I had to look at some research into incidence rates of viral infections where estimates were made for how many actual cases might exist versus the number that were tested and confirmed. What the point of the research is about is identifying more realistic raw numbers of the total number of infected patients who have not been identified because they did not report or were simply never tested and that research is then used to predict health budgets and so forth.

    Anyway, I picked up one CDC report on Hepatitis C since it was at one time called a plague due to the high frequency among injection drug users and sex trades workers. This is probably applicable here since the majority of Hep-C patients are asymptomatic and therefore never receive a test. This virus is obviously much more difficult to catch than COVID19 however but it will give us some idea of how to think about the kinds of numbers of infections we are really talking about when we see a Corona-virus report out of Italy for example.

    For Hepatitis C there were 2967 confirmed cases in 2016 but the estimated number of non-reported cases was 41,200 with a confidence interval of 95%. What that means is for each confirmed case of Hepatitis they can estimate the community infection rate using a multiple of 13.8 and therefore I think everyone here will start to better appreciate why testing is being kept quiet.

    The reason naturally is that using this very simple way of doing an estimate we can quickly appreciate for example that Italy's 1000 confirmed cases of COVID might also represent a minimum of 13.8 times that number of actual infections and then after being multiplied by the infectivity rate (R-naught) and then put on an exponential chart the reality of that situation is jaw dropping. It is staggering really. One thousand confirmed cases tells us the disease is already epidemic translating into tens of thousands of non-reported victims as it stands.

    Forgive my application just a little since I used US numbers here and applied them to an Italian population bu I think I can get away with this if only by way of demonstration since Italy is a Western country with a similar injection drug and Hepatitis problems. The apples to oranges comparison is being done just to suggest what kind of infection level numbers we might arrive at mathematically once we have real data in hand and a multiplier based on how contagious that illness is known to be.

    So should we just say that for each reported case of Coronavirus we read about there can be an expected additional 50 or 100 cases in the community (and growing exponentially)? I don't know but someone with better math will probably tell me what a reasonable number is. Whatever it might be will just give added confirmation that the Chinese numbers were all baloney all along since they even suppressed the numbers of  confirmed cases.

    It could certainly be in the millions of infections though. So this is already HUGE.

    https://www.cdc.gov/hepatitis/statistics/2016surveillance/commentary.htm

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 6:57pm

    #7
    Myrto Ashe

    Myrto Ashe

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    4

    How contagious is this virus before symptoms show?

    One virologist I read said the question was whether 10% or up to 30% of the transmission was attributable to asymptomatic people. So it sounds like they are pretty sure there is transmission (at least 3 published papers with good info) but at the beginning they thought this type of transmission wasn't a significant driver of the R0.  But if 30% of the contagion is cause by asymptomatic people, then that's a lot - with the R0 possibly near (or more than) 3, then asymptomatic transmission could conceivably sustain the whole epidemic.

    Another interesting fact is that viral shedding is similar between mildly infected people and severely ill people. That is unusual for an infectious disease. I believe this also confused infectious disease specialists early on. Someone had to go in and sample the two types of patients and show that both needed full isolation.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 7:13pm

    #8
    Nairobi

    Nairobi

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    So here is a great example that is cause for alarm.

    I am just watching a video by Dr John Campbell and he is reporting that more than 15,000 people have recently returned to London from Northern Italy. If we can now presume that there are likely as many as 50 to 80 thousand non reported Corona cases in Italy based on similar virus research (and multiplied by the R0) then it is very unlikely London is going to last long before it sees community closures similar to other jurisdictions. We can know right now today that their hospitals will be overwhelmed in two weeks time. Its a disaster. Who in hell will get on the tube as the case count mounts? Who will go to football matches?

    What will happen to the retail and service economy?

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 7:16pm

    #9
    mch

    mch

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    Using table salt (NaCl) to deactivate viruses in masks

    I just ran across this comment on Chris's new video on youtube linking to a Nature article on a simple technique to treat masks to effectively sterilize the mask during use and allow their reuse.
    Universal and reusable virus deactivation system for respiratory protection
    Comment posted by:

    Everyone get a mask. Treat it with salt. Wear it. Salt destroys the virus.
    from the article

    "However, in the lack of a system to deactivate the collected pathogens, safety concerns naturally arise about secondary infection and contamination from virus-laden filter media during utilization and disposal. Furthermore, since re-sterilization is not possible without causing damage, respirators and masks are recommended for single use only9,15,16. Scientific efforts have been focused on treatment of filters with materials possessing well-known antimicrobial properties, such as iodine, chlorine and metals17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25, although with limited effectiveness against virus aerosols26,27,28. Therefore, a key challenge is the development of an easy-to-use, universal virus negation system, which is reusable without reprocessing and capable of deactivating pathogens, thereby reducing potential risk of secondary infection and transmission.

    Here, we report a simple but efficient virus inactivation system exploiting the naturally occurring salt recrystallization. Our strategy is to modify the surface of the fibrous filtration layer within masks with a continuous salt film for virus deactivation via two successive processes: i) salt is locally dissolved by the viral aerosols and ii) supersaturation is followed by evaporation-induced salt recrystallization. Consequently, viruses are exposed to increasingly higher concentrations of saline solution during drying and physically damaged by recrystallization."

    seems really simple - soak your masks in very salty water and let them dry, leaving a salt film in the fibers. This salt treatment may also be useful for homemade masks and clothes that you wear when going out in public, but I'm not a virologist, so maybe others could comment on the efficacy of this idea.
    I just wanted to add for non-scientists here, the journal Nature is one of the top scientific journals in the world, so this research has been well vetted.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 7:40pm

    wyrldtraveler

    wyrldtraveler

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    unreported cases

    I forget which virologist or epidemiologist said it, but the rule of thumb taught in school is that for every case which they know about, assume 8-10 cases that they don't.

    Simply put - look at the numbers in the media and x10.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 7:47pm

    Nairobi

    Nairobi

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    Salt is a great idea

    That is an excellent idea. For that matter you could also consider storing used masks in a salt bag for a couple days and reduce all the decontamination steps. Think of this the way you might have learned that a mobile phone that has been exposed to moisture can be put in a bag of rice because that wicks all the moisture out of the phone. With a mask you could just bury it inside a bag of ground salt and let it sit since the environment would be extremely inhospitable for a virus particles.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 7:53pm

    #12
    Broadspectrum

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    How Bacteria & Viruses Exist on Any Surface

    Hello All,

    Biofilm is everywhere and on everything.  It’s on your tables and chairs, floors, counters, clothing and teeth… it’s even on your skin!

    Cleaning with chemicals like bleach, ammonia, alcohol etc will KILL those nasties BUT as soon as that surface is exposed again to those nasties they are back.  Cleaning with those chemicals are only temporary methods to keep surfaces clean.  How would you like something that not only eliminates pathogen carrying bacteria, viruses and other dangerous disease-producing microbes but allows the surface to become even cleaner days after it has been cleaned and exposed to those same microbes (as long as that surface is not cleaned with some other cleanser?

    he real problem with biofilm is that it houses, protects—and subsequently allows for the growth and spread of—pathogen carrying bacteria, viruses and other dangerous disease-producing microbes.

    Microbes become embedded within this slimy extracellular matrix of sticky hardening webbing that houses and shields them like a protective canopy.

    But, biofilm isn’t just a few gross layers of bacterial slime.

    The microbes within organize themselves into a coordinated and functional self-built community allowing them to prosper. Think of it like a “city for microbes”. Basically, there’s a party of bad happening under that “tent”, and no one has enough authority to get in and shut it down, and…

    THAT’S THE PROBLEM!

    Biofilm is extremely difficult to penetrate and cannot be “killed” or removed with chemical cleaners or disinfectants. In fact, tests show there is little-to-no impact on biofilm when using a variety of full-strength chemical cleaning products including undiluted chlorine bleach. Biofilm is the reason why your tile and/or grout never seems to get back to the clean state it originally was. Whether it’s on your floors or your skin—Nothing can get through to the dirt and bacteria beneath the biofilm, so only the top-most surface dirt is removed, leaving the deeper dangers lurking below untouched, allowing them to continue to flourish and spread.

    The truth is, there are only three ways to fully penetrate biofilm and get a surface truly clean:

    1. High-pressure, high-heat steam cleaning; concentrated on the area for long periods, OR
    2. Manually scraping and breaking away the biofilm, OR

     

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 7:59pm

    Nairobi

    Nairobi

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    5

    One weak link breaks the chain

    Yes wyrld traveler that is my thinking. But then you need to factor in how contagious the illness is and since we have arrived at a rough number of 6 (I think that's what Chris was saying) it adds the element of exponentials. So Italy which is actually reporting something like 1350 confirmed cases today could easily have 60 to 70 thousands of unreported infections and probably closer to 100,000 which means in other words they have already lost control.

    There is not even a practical means to trace infections once you hit those kinds of numbers unless you employ hundreds of people to track it. That is not going to happen. I have honestly become a little fatalistic about this whole thing since I can conclude that this virus cannot be avoided.

    Just one single slip up and you have got it. One appointment you must attend to for example where the virus is present or being around one sick person who is in your car. Or the kids bring the illness home. Or one forgetful moment when your eyes or nose is runny and you forget to not touch your face.

    Can anyone mortal cover all the angles? I doubt I can. Instead of putting massive efforts into avoidance it may be more sensible to put your money and time into treatment assuming we will both get it and be stuck at home once it happens. There are limits to how much most people can spend on protecting themselves and of course one weak link means the entire chain can break.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 8:00pm

    #14
    LabCat

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    2

    WOW

    I am continually shocked how many doctors are still saying "it's like the flu", and how many people say things like "only old people with preexisting conditions are dying".

    Unreal!

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 8:34pm

    #15
    huxton

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    1

    Thank you Chris and Adam.

    Your hard work in preparing and presenting this information has been invaluable.  For those of us who have listened/read/watched PP over the last decade plus, this effort of yours is not a surprise.

    Know that the beneficial effects for the family and friends of the still relatively few people reading/viewing this information will ultimately and unfortunately remain unknown to you.  It is is real and significant nonetheless.  This is just personal testimony based on watching my own extended family awakening over the weeks in light of (perhaps initially forced) exposure to your material. Thank you. Please continue while you can.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 8:35pm

    LesPhelps

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    3

    Vitamin C Supplements vs Apples

    There are studies showing that vitamin C supplements are less effective than vitamin C consumed in fruit, like an apple.  There is less vitamin C in and apple than in a supplement, never the less the smaller amount of vitamins C, in the apple, is far more effective, when consumed along with all the rest of the nutrients in the apple.  Reductionism has it’s shortcomings.

    Perhaps there is a reason they say “an apple a day keeps the doctor away.”

    https://www.wholefoodplantbaseddiet.com/vitamin-c-supplements-vs-an-apple/

    “Let food be thy medicine.”
    - Hypocraties

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 8:38pm

    #17

    dtrammel

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    WTF is biofilm?

    Can you give us some real research on this supposed secret layer on ever surface imaginable? You've got Chris quoting some real scientific research on surfaces and cell cultures to show infection capacity after a certain number of hours. I don't see anything that implies a stealthy impervious to disinfectant layer of germs is there at all.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 8:41pm

    #18

    dtrammel

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    Chris missed the real gem in the matrix of "persistence of coronavirus on surfaces"

    Look at time stamp 22:56, just under when Chris highlights Silicon rubber.

    Latex surgical gloves = 8 hours

    That means our glove don't collect this virus particles very well, and that just putting them in a container for a day, probably makes them reusable.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 8:54pm

    #19
    Myrto Ashe

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    How we treat our health care workers

    https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1234686915242270720/photo/1

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 9:04pm

    wyrldtraveler

    wyrldtraveler

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    The Day After

    The scene in the movie The Day After (free on YouT00b I believe) near the beginning when the husband is herding everyone into the shelter and Mom is nowhere to be seen... and she is making beds...  is typical of what is happening now.  Worth seeing the film again.

    There is another film which is good to watch called   After Armageddon (2011) which has a timeline similar to ours.  It's not spectacular cinematography, but it's not all blood and gore either.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 9:06pm

    #21
    nlbaodds

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    The most important lessons from China’s Covid-19 response

    This interview of the WHO officer who went to China to see first hand what happens there, is very interesting

    https://www.vox.com/2020/3/2/21161067/coronavirus-covid19-china

    here is a small quote:

    "China took a whole bunch of steps when they realized they had to repurpose big chunks of their hospital systems to [respond to the outbreak]. The first thing is, they said testing is free, treatment is free. Right now, there are huge barriers [to testing and treatment] in the West. You can get tested, but then you might be negative and have to foot the bill. In China, they realized those were barriers to people seeking care, so, as a state, they took over the payments for people whose insurance plans didn’t cover them. They tried to mitigate those barriers.

    The other thing they did: Normally a prescription in China can’t last for more than a month. But they increased it to three months to make sure people didn’t run out [when they had to close a lot of their hospitals]. Another thing: Prescriptions could be done online and through WeChat [instead of requiring a doctor appointment]. And they set up a delivery system for medications for affected populations."

     

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 9:07pm

    #22
    chewbacca

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    chewbacca said:

    11 thousand from wuhan came to Thailand in January ALONE. Kinda hard to see how they have this virus contained. They never stopped recieving Chinese flights either. They have no cases because they're like the USA: they're not testing. Chris, I don't agree with your provisional assessment here.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 9:10pm

    Sparky1

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    Biofilm: Disaster movie cliffhanger

    Hi Broadspectrum, Well this biofilm sounds like some pretty nasty super stealthy stuff straight out of a pandemic disaster movie. Apparently near indestructible, thankfully you revealed how to penetrate it's protective armor:

    "The truth is, there are only three ways to fully penetrate biofilm and get a surface truly clean:
         1.  High-pressure, high-heat steam cleaning; concentrated on the area for long periods, OR
         2.  Manually scraping and breaking away the biofilm, OR"

    Don't leave us hanging!  What's the third and only other way to defeat this beast??

    If this biofilm is as nasty and resilient as you've described, then I'm amazed that humans have survived through the millennia given such tiny and mighty adversaries.

    Thanks for the info and any links for further reading on this.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 9:20pm

    #24
    NorthElkhound

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    3

    no prepping here

    I was at our local Boise-area, Idaho Costco last Friday, 2-28  and Sunday, 3-1. Sunday there was much less toilet paper and only the Kirkland brand. The dog food was very low.The Kirkland brand I buy was down to 10 bags of 35lbs. each.

    But people were not buying much in the way  of long-term supplies. The mood was positive. "It can't happen here" seems to be the mentality.

    I posted a warning about corona virus and prepping on our local NextDoor app to gauge local sentiment. Nearly 90% of replies were "don't panic-it's the Democrats trying to make Trump look bad." I will not be giving them supplies when )@^* hits the fan!

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 9:51pm

    #25
    Myrto Ashe

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    1

    Link to 5G?

    This map of 5G rollout has some interesting similarities to the places in the world where this epidemic is really taking off. It could be coincidence as these are also some of the more "connected" places commercially, but we'll see going forward if the correlation holds. https://www.speedtest.net/ookla-5g-map

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 10:03pm

    ao

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    Les, the accuracy of the results of the studies would really depend upon the type of supplements

    For example, studies on vitamin E in the form of dl-alpha tocopherol have revealed problems despite the fact that this is a common synthetic form of vitamin E used in cheap vitamin/mineral supplements.  Vitamin E is the form of d-alpha tocopherol works better.  Vitamin E with full spectrum tocopherols (i.e. alpha, beta, gamma, delta) works even better.  Vitamin E with full spectrum tocopherols and tocotrienols work even better.  So, yes, I would agree with you that whole foods are best but there are whole food supplements which work very well also as compared to synthetic vitamins and/or vitamins without their naturally occurring co-factors.

    I personally experienced that difference with synthetic vitamin B complex versus food based vitamin B complex derived from dessicated liver and brewer's yeast.  The efficacy in eliminating lone atrial fibrillation (in combination with omega-3 fatty acids and colloidal magnesium) was day and night.

    Vitamin C in its purest form, ascorbic acid, will not be as effective as vitamin C in the form of a complex with bioflavonoids.  Vitamin C with bioflavonoids will not be as effective as a food based vitamin C powder supplement.  For example, a food based vitamin C powder made from amla, acerola, camu camu, and kiwi would be a much more fair comparison to an apple and may very well blow it away in terms of bio-available vitamin C and resulting health effects.  That would be a much more fair comparison but I can virtually guarantee you the studies were not made with that kind of comparison.

    That being said, the apple has other virtues in terms of fiber, quercetin, and a host of other phytonutrients.   Whole foods are best, yes, but try to have fresh fruit containing vitamin C in a long term survival situation.  Pretty difficult to impossible, especially in harsher northern urban climates where someone may not be able to forage and make something like pine needle tea.  That's where food based vitamin/mineral supplements could be life savers.

     

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 10:09pm

    #27

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

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    Feeling Pensive and Dark

    What do we say to the God of Death?

    "Not today."

    ---

    If it gets bad out there, this Spring or in the Fall, then whenever you step thru the door to leave, say that. "I will not get sick today."

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 10:17pm

    LeftCoaster

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    RE: Using salt to disinfect masks

    Thank you for posting this piece. Very good find.  I read the entire piece, but I could not figure out what concentration of NACL was used. (Is had the concentration used but I did to understand the symbols.)  Specifically, a recipe stating X amount of NACL to X amount of water.  I am assuming we should saturate the outer surface, of the mask , prior to use & then let it air dry.  I am also not sure if we should re-spray a used mask after each use or how long the destabilizing effect of the NACL last, once saturated.

    Does anyone out there know the answers to these questions?  If so, this is a fantastically effective method that costs mere pennys & means you can re-use masks indefinitely, assuming they are no so soiled you see debris on them.  It also inactivates a virus by two separate methods. Genius.

     

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 10:49pm

    gyurash

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    Simple stove top meathod

    https://sciencing.com/prepare-supersaturated-salt-water-solutions-8559439.html
    not sure if simple saturation is needed, or “super saturation” as described here.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 10:53pm

    Patrick

    Patrick

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    Vitamin C in China and Korea

    can you send the link again?  The one you posted was not working for me.

     

    Thanks

     

    Patrick

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 11:01pm

    #31
    Nairobi

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    Treating a mask with brine might make the mask useless

    The big problem with spraying salt onto a mask is that crystals will form and the function of the mask will probably degrade since the very small fibers will be coated with salt and become rigid. But fibre treatment isn't a new science. Most mosquito nets are treated with pesticides that repel or kill bugs that try to land on them. Mosquito net openings are relatively large though. You would think the mask makers would have already incorporated some kind of virus killing treatment for hospital masks if it was practical.

    Maybe they have....

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 11:02pm

    #32

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

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    Posts: 804

    4

    Filter Efficiency Depends on Electro Static Properties?

    Sorry its late, but one member here has mentioned with some references, that biological filters like N95 masks depend on a electro static (hope I got that right) property of the fabric as configured to stop virus particles, which can be degraded by soaking in fluids of various sorts, and then cuts the filtering capacity of the mask.

    Not sure if steam coupled with high heat degrades the fibers as well.

    If so then only a dry heat, either via kitchen oven baking, hot air application (which might spread the virus particles) or as I want to investigate, small scale crock pot baking, is about the only way to sterilize a contaminated mask.

    I've mentioned a NCBI report that sites 86F as a temperature that accelerates virus particle death, which unfortunately I can't find to review. I expect that higher temperatures than 86F are needed to sterilize a mask in a short period of time.

    I'm going to pick up a cheap crock pot and thermometer in the next few days and try and run some temperature trials to see what the crock pot generates and if its high enough then use it myself in conjunction with a UV light sterilizer and a bleach bath to handle my outside carry of items if it gets that bad that I have to go full decon protocol when going out.

    I'd love to see what this community can come up with before that.

    ---

    I wanted to say this. We can't be the site which just says "self quarantine and hide" to every person who comes here and asks how to deal with this crisis. We have to figure out ways that a person, of limited means and resources can go out into an infected world with some sense that they can survive without bringing it back to their family and group.

    Its not this first wave we need to worry about. How it progresses is almost already written into the script. Its this Fall's second wave which if history is a meter, is going to be much worse that we need to prepare for with common sense tutorials and information.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 11:07pm

    #33
    Nairobi

    Nairobi

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    Tell me again why surgical masks are all made in China. We don't have machines here?

    How to make a million masks a week.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 11:13pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

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    Wyrldtraveler, The Day After and denial

    Wyrldtraveler, those are two of my favorite disaster movies! That is a great scene in the movie  The Day After where the Mom (in denial) is making the bed as a means of holding on to some semblance of normalcy in the face of impending disaster.

    It reminds me of when my (ex) mother-in-law kept her standing weekly hair appointment the afternoon her husband of nearly 50 years died after a long illness. Her adult children felt it was callous and unbalanced, and were very upset. I understood it as a coping mechanism; her way of trying to look, act and feel "normal" when her world had just fallen apart.

    Today's coping mechanisms for many people ("consumers") include eating out, shopping, and social media/activities. They will resist and become angry if access to those diversions are restricted or removed entirely during an extended crisis.

    The authorities know this, which is why they're advising people, "Don't worry, trust us and go on with your lives as you normally would".  (They also need consumers to keep consuming as much and as long as they can to keep our debt-based economy afloat.)

    That works, until it doesn't:  when the pandemic becomes so widespread and hits close to home that people realize they can no longer trust the lying authorities or deny their lying eyes.

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2020 - 11:48pm

    TamHob

    TamHob

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    @Nairobi

    1) I think you're looking at those numbers the wrong way - if there are tens of thousands of infected people in eg Italy without crushing numbers of hospitalisations then it means that this is a fast moving  but ultimately relatively mild illness for 99.99% of people - rather than the 80% currently estimated. Assuming that the reinfection/2 stage factor doesn't affect too many people, that would be great! I suspect we're not that lucky though.

    2) viruses have a massive difference in ratio of those detected:total infected. I don't think you can extrapolate from hepatitis. MERS and SARS are much more closely related and had very low levels of mild cases - so almost everyone infected was detected as they developed very serious illness.

    3) I think it is important to keep the big picture in mind - this is likely to be a significant challenge to our hospital systems and quite likely to be the anvil that breaks our overly leveraged/complex manufacturing and financial systems, at least for a while. However, humans are very resilient and inventive and this is not the Black Death - most people will be able to muddle through, especially those who are forewarned and prepared.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 1:17am

    Nairobi

    Nairobi

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    Mostly barking, not too many bites

    I completely agree with you Tom. Well stated. My comparisons have endless problems  but I could not find anything better that estimated infectious yet untested people in the community so I kind of did a ballpark routine and extrapolated with the one virus that did have good research.

    And indeed, if there are huge numbers of infected it actually means the death rate is ultimately quite small and that is a huge relief. So I am happy you pointed that out. Its hard to come to a different conclusion actually if the R0 is really as high as six and case fatality rates are as little as a few percent then the total population impact is negligible (I say that respectfully for anyone who has a family member who might die).

    It also implies the Chinese containment experiment was wildly exaggerated. I know a guy who just shakes his head whenever the subject comes up and he says "its just a bloody smoke screen Nairobi, don't you know better yet"! Maybe he's right. Its like a dog that barks but does not bite too hard.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 1:18am

    marjay

    marjay

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    Joined: Sep 08 2008

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    Vit c

    Try this....
    Vitamin C already being used to prevent and treat COVID-19 in China and in Korea. And it is working

     

    View web version

     

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 4:22am

    #38
    dakota

    dakota

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    Joined: Oct 26 2008

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    Coronavirus in Norway: The Latest News on the COVID-19 Outbreak

    <https://www.lifeinnorway.net/coronavirus-in-norway/>

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 4:25am

    Cochras

    Cochras

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    Cochras said:

    This isn't scientific info just practical knowledge picked up at work.

    I worked in the health service and put together a project to re-procure all our dressings.

    Looked at all the different sorts of dressing and worked closely with medics including TVNs (Tissue Viability Nurses).

    A small but important part of the range (3 years ago) dealt with the invisible Biofilm that can exist over a wound.

    There wasn't a test for it that I remember but the symptom was a wound that wouldn't heal even after using aggressive anti-microbial dressings such as silver and honey.

    So it is definitely a thing and you could usefully research the current dressings available and then follow the chain backwards to some research.

    Google biofilm dressings. Convatec are active as a company.

     

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 4:28am

    #40
    KathyP

    KathyP

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    1

    Neuroinvasive Potential

    Another reason for not wanting to get this thing.  https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1002/jmv.25728

     

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 4:29am

    #41
    ddelong

    ddelong

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    Virus Resident time on Gloves

    I saw in the video and in dtrammel's post about the virus resident time on gloves.  I work in a pharmaceutical company that uses both cleanroom and isolator technologies for the aseptic filling of pharmaceuticals.  Part of our cleanroom behavior is to spray down gloves every 10 minutes regardless of activities and to spray down after any activity that puts our hands in the risk zone and allowing the hands to dry.  We use 70% Isopropyl Alcohol (aka Rubbing Alcohol), but this works better for some viruses than others.  Some people also use 70% Ethanol as well which has better wide spectrum effectiveness against viruses.  The key is to let the alcohol fully dry before your next activity otherwise it will not be effective and the liquid could just then act as a mode of transfer to another surface.

    So my suggestion is that if you don't have hand sanitizers, gels, or other disinfectant chemicals try and find some clear liquor in the 130 to 150 proof (65-75%)range (Think everclear) and use that.

    Hopefully this will help with another avenue for surface disinfection.  See a couple references below.  As a reminder these two chemicals are most effective in the 70% IPA or ETOH range with 30% water and should be allowed to dry.

    https://www.cdc.gov/infectioncontrol/guidelines/disinfection/disinfection-methods/chemical.html

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK214356/

     

    EDIT:  Just wanted to add that this is for light contamination.  If gloves are significantly soiled, i.e. cleaning up someone's bodily fluids, you should remove the soiling from the gloves and then disinfect them if possible and remove using an inside out technique and dispose of with your other contaminated materials.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 4:45am

    kunga

    kunga

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    Biofilm. Cochras

    I had to smile when you stated your "aggressive" treatments are silver and honey.  My solution for wounds is to use silver (colloidal) right at the beginning, so a biofilm never gets a chance to form.  Of course this means a patient or care giver needs to have it on hand.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 5:25am

    BillL

    BillL

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    Aren't you just a ray of sunshine...

    Think I'll go gargle with bleach.

    Seriously folks.  "We're going to have to walk right thru this one."  quote from a friend.

    It will be damn close to impossible, if not impossible to avoid it.  The sooner you realize that the better.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 5:42am

    #44
    Vilbas

    Vilbas

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    Joined: Aug 14 2014

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    May be hard to avoid it

    over the full course of the virus, but I am feeling VERY VERY anxious about flying tomorrow. Seems batshit crazy to get on a plane and fly to south FL, especially since a Miami woman came back from Italy last week with it and despite the doctors insistence she has it, they couldn't get her officially tested. She had symptoms on her flight so who effing knows who she infected. It's maddening to keep hearing people say its no big deal and to go about your business as usual.

    https://cbs12.com/news/local/miami-woman-who-traveled-to-italy-reportedly-denied-proper-testing-for-coronavirus

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 5:50am

    BillL

    BillL

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    Mask machine...

    No one in the US will work for a buck and hour and threat of death if you don't produce.

     

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 5:51am

    #46
    km64

    km64

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    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 88

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    Prepare don't panic

    17 COVID-19 articles on the website of one of our local news stations. This doesn't seem to be "nothing to see here, move along" coverage. This is more "there's enough to worry about, prepare, don't panic" coverage.

    Not sure if other local news sites are as through in their coverage.

    https://www.wthr.com/article/purdue-researcher-creates-potential-game-changer-fight-against-covid-19

    https://www.wthr.com/article/carmel-clay-teacher-self-quarantine-after-returning-italy

    https://www.wthr.com/article/pence-tells-governors-money-coronavirus-costs-coming-1

    https://www.wthr.com/article/handwashing-takes-forefront-coronavirus-concerns-grow-are-you-doing-it-correctly

    https://www.wthr.com/article/us-death-toll-climbs-6-viral-crisis-eases-china

    https://www.wthr.com/article/report-facebook-pulls-out-sxsw

    https://www.wthr.com/article/firefighters-medics-prepare-face-coronavirus-emergency-runs

    https://www.wthr.com/article/delta-waives-change-fees-international-travel-due-coronavirus-concerns

    https://www.wthr.com/article/face-masks-and-hand-sanitizer-are-flying-shelves-do-they-work

    https://www.wthr.com/article/coronavirus-answering-top-10-questions-people-have-been-googling

    https://www.wthr.com/article/state-officials-confirm-they-have-900-kits-test-covid-19

    https://www.wthr.com/article/children-can-get-coronavirus-most-will-have-mild-symptoms

    https://www.wthr.com/article/interactive-map-shows-all-reported-coronavirus-cases-world

    https://www.wthr.com/article/what-are-symptoms-coronavirus-disease-covid-19

    https://www.wthr.com/article/what-coronavirus-covid-19-definitions-novel

    https://www.wthr.com/article/salesforce-prohibiting-cross-border-travel-coronavirus-spreads

    https://www.wthr.com/article/who-coronavirus-containment-feasible

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 6:06am

    Cj Sloane

    Cj Sloane

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    Cj Sloane said:

    I do 4 grams vitamin C every half hour till my stomach grumbles. Works 95% of the time. I've done it 2x in the past month with success but I have an iron stomach. My kids didn't take enough and were sick this past week.

    Just make sure you don't need to leave the house anytime soon!

    http://vitamincfoundation.org/www.orthomed.com/titrate.htm

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 6:12am

    #48
    Kat43

    Kat43

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    The candidates can't practice social distancing

    We’re likely down to one of four men between 73 and 78 years old. All high risk to contract the disease and then high risk to not do very well. Best scenario would be they’re just off the campaign trail for a few weeks as they recover. I imagine they’re all on the best preventative anti-virals money and connections can secure and maybe that will be enough (in which case, wouldn’t we all want to know what works!). What concerns me is the societal and economic disruption of their getting sick or worse, at a time there is already so much chaos.

    We have been hearing about the risks of facing the crowds on election day but I haven’t heard any mention of the risks the candidates themselves are taking and must continue to take. Or are we about to ban rallies and go back to just tv and radio appearances? The second wave could start in time to be a thing by the fall general election.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 6:42am

    DanielleW

    DanielleW

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    Joined: Aug 16 2016

    Posts: 11

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    The day after...

    Was The Day after made in the 80s? Want to make sure I’m watching the right movie.

    thanks!!!

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 6:43am

    LesPhelps

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2009

    Posts: 639

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    I am not scarred of death

    One of my hero’s is a cardiologist (long time WFPB lifestyle) who lived to 105, fully functional at 100.  When asked, he said “I’m not afraid to die, I just don’t want it to be my fault.”

    One of the non health related things about WFPB, is that it makes prepping to feed yourself much easier and less expensive.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 6:47am

    #51
    MiguelitoDeSilva

    MiguelitoDeSilva

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    Joined: Feb 04 2020

    Posts: 4

    2

    Thoughts on Bill Sardi article from Lew Rockwell

    Chris, it would be very interesting if you comment in an update about the thought provoking article by Bill Sardi published yesterday on Lew Rockwell at https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/03/bill-sardi/trump-halts-cdc-fearmongering-but-why-are-antibiotics-not-anti-virals-quelling-the-covid-19-coronavirus-is-it-really-a-virus/

    Keep up the great work

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 6:52am

    #52
    TXZ7

    TXZ7

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    Joined: Feb 04 2020

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    Antihistamine?

    Hello community!   So glad to get to benefit from everyone's knowledge and wisdom.

    One question I'm attempting to research, so wondering if anyone knows:   Do antihistamines suppress the part of your immune system that would fight off this virus?   The reason I ask is I take one daily, but it's for minor allergies, so I would absolutely stop taking it while this is going on if there was a risk it was lowering my ability to fight off viruses.     Thanks!

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 6:54am

    #53
    davez

    davez

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    Joined: Feb 14 2020

    Posts: 11

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    davez said:

    I've added a "SummaryByProvinceState" to this spreadsheet which pulls daily from John Hopkin's datasets and updates around (8 pm ET).

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FXVgNrTbECcO8X4-hFXhJuqgE5sl-7ddU-IO2ciXCdU/edit#gid=1157182735

    What that means is that in the second tab you may view by sub-location (for certain countries like US and Canada). John Hopkins is not recording it by state for the United States, but by county. So you can plot data by "County, State." Keep in mind that the growth of viral populations is generally in a normal distribution (bell curve). It may die out, or it may form some periodic trend (sine wave). Also, be hopeful and keep your eye on Christ.

    Please make a copy of this sheet in your Google Sheets account if you wish to use it frequently.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 7:36am

    #54
    greendoc

    greendoc

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    Great explanation of the viral transmission in Seattle

    This is a fascinating explanation of the undetected transmission of the novel 2019 Covid virus in Seattle but the computational biologist Trevor Bedford. https://bedford.io/blog/ncov-cryptic-transmission/

    We know that Wuhan went from an index case in ~Nov-Dec 2019 to several thousand cases by mid-Jan 2020, thus going from initial seeding event to widespread local transmission in the span of ~9-10 weeks. We now believe that the Seattle area seeding event was ~Jan 15 and we're now ~7 weeks later. I expect Seattle now to look like Wuhan around ~1 Jan, when they were reporting the first clusters of patients with unexplained viral pneumonia. We are currently estimating ~600 infections in Seattle, this matches my phylodynamic estimate of the number of infections in Wuhan on Jan 1. Three weeks later, Wuhan had thousands of infections and was put on large-scale lock-down. However, these large-scale non-pharmaceutical interventions to create social distancing had a huge impact on the resulting epidemic. China averted many millions of infections through these intervention measures and cases there have declined substantially.

    It will be interesting to see what the choices the Governor of Washington makes about large-scale non-pharmaceutical interventions.  

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 7:39am

    #55
    DisappearingCulture

    DisappearingCulture

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    Harvard Virologist in CBS Interview Says Up to 70% of Humans Will Be Infected, with 1% Death Rate

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-infection-outbreak-worldwide-virus-expert-warning-today-2020-03-02/

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 8:14am

    #56
    km64

    km64

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    Joined: Feb 03 2020

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    Anti-Hoarding

    This tells you something...

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/kroger-limits-sanitization-cold-and-flu-products-amid-coronavirus-fears/ar-BB10GewX

    The Cincinnati-based company posted a notice to its website Monday, saying "Due to high demand and to support all customers, we will be limiting the number of Sanitization, and Cold and Flu related product to 5 each per order. Your order may be modified at time of pickup or delivery."

    Additional details were not provided.

    The new limitations seem to only apply to online sales. It is unclear if the limitations apply to in-store purchases. WLWT has reached out to Kroger for comment.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 8:14am

    Broadspectrum

    Broadspectrum

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    More to Come on Bio-Film

    Hello Sparky1,

    My apologies for not finishing my post last night.  I fully intended to but a phone call came in regarding a sudden situation that I had to deal with.  Unfortunately I don't have enough time to finish right now (woke up late and must get to work).  Please excuse me for the delay...it is important information and I will provide the scientific research later today.  Thank you.

    Broadspectrum

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 8:23am

    #58

    dtrammel

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 03 2011

    Posts: 804

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    Tehran, We Have A Problem

    Iran’s coronavirus outbreak has hit the highest levels of government

    The coronavirus has hit the highest levels of Iran’s government, and it seems to be spreading rather quickly. Mohammad Mirmohammadi, a member of a top council that advises Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei, died Monday of Covid-19, the disease caused by the coronavirus. His death follows those of two other Iranian leaders — a former ambassador and newly elected member of Parliament — who also succumbed to the illness.

    Reports indicate that about 8 percent of Iran’s Parliament tested positive for the virus, while a total of about seven top officials have fallen ill. They include Iraj Harirchi, the head of the regime’s coronavirus task force, and Iranian Vice President Masoumeh Ebtekar.

    The disclosure of Ebtekar’s illness last week was particularly troubling for Iran’s leadership, as it came only one day after she attended a Cabinet meeting where she was in close proximity to regime officials, including the 80-year-old Khamenei. That he and other Iranian leaders are elderly means they are at increased risk of dying from the disease, though there is currently no evidence to show Khamenei is sick.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 8:37am

    Roadlesstaken

    Roadlesstaken

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    Joined: Dec 27 2011

    Posts: 5

    2

    Age demographics

    With such a large percentage of adults potentially contracting the virus, an 8% mortality rate for people aged 70-79, and a 14% mortality rate for people over the age of 80, how might this affect the age distribution problem facing many countries.  Intentional or accidental, might the culling of the elderly have profound economic impacts on the burdened health care costs of aging countries such as China, Japan, U.S., and Europe?

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 8:45am

    gyurash

    gyurash

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    Mask machine may be patented

    I have some experience in manufacturing. I can tell you the machine in the video making masks looks custom purpose built. It may be covered by patents held by the mask company to create a legal monopoly for the mass production of the product. Many years ago I worked in a factory that re-soled pro tennis shoes, and most of the machines that semi-automated the process were covered by patents by the factory owner that he refused to license to others. That monopoly made him very rich while he paid us factory plebs minimum wage or less. That’s capitalism for you. We should learn how to make our own cloth masks and apply the brine disinfection approach. Is that not the resilient and practical practice?

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 8:46am

    Nairobi

    Nairobi

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    Factor of 32

    Thus, that Washington State virologist, Trevor Bedford, is giving this illness a rough factor of 32 for each known case of Coronavirus. Eighteen proven cases is representative about 600 infections total. That is pretty helpful information and also tells us that the virus has implanted itself firmly in the community and likely cannot be contained anymore by tracking sources since at this stage its growth in the community will be close to explosive. He is suggesting containment. The State has already declared an emergency and now we await directives from the Health Department as to what happens next. This was good to see by the way since my own thinking was a factor or 50 was reasonable but I was obviously a little too generous with my math.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 8:56am

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

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    Posts: 753

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    Danielle, here's The Day Afert movie link(s) +1 more

    DanielleW, here's the link to The Day After movie:  https://youtu.be/Iyy9n8r16hs

    It was released in 1983.  There's also a 3-hour "workprint" version (here) that contains some of the scenes that were considered too graphic for the public at the time, while there are gaps where other scenes apparently need to be inserted.

    There's another disaster movie that's very good with a similar name, The Day After Tomorrow with Dennis Quaid, released in 2004, about climate change/mini-Ice Age. Here's the link:  https://youtu.be/zUYBbkckWI8

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 9:00am

    Nairobi

    Nairobi

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    Posts: 289

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    Labour is not the biggest piece of the equation with automation, taxes are.

    BillL, I think you missed the point. There was only two workers in that factory video. Almost everything was being done by machinery. So it is not a labour issue that stops factory production in the US anymore. At one time it was though and such lines needed hundreds of people folding, packing, sorting etcetera but times and robotics have changed all that. There is not the same economic reasons for offshoring some types of work anymore.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 9:23am

    #64
    CJRinMN

    CJRinMN

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    Joined: Apr 02 2019

    Posts: 9

    4

    Is a containment room at home even an option?

    Hi All,

    So I started preparing on Chris' advice early on to have a sick room to isolate a sick family member while they get better. But as this has gone on I am seriously questioning if it would even work. The way I see it, with the long, presumably contagious, incubation period, if one of two adults or three kids gets infected, we'll all be infected before we show symptoms and know it. Thoughts?

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 9:37am

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

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    Anti-hoarding alert: Kroger limits cold and ful supplies

    Wow, this is significant.  Thanks km64 for the information and link (reposted here and here).  This is the first report I've heard of a major retailer limiting purchases of cold and flu product in the US. Up to now, I've only seen/read about restrictions on the number of face masks, respirators and sanitizing products.

    Given the coronavirus pandemic and flu season spread (just recently gaining speed), availability for cold and flu products will be sparse due to increased demand. Other retailers (e.g., CVS, Target, Walmart, Walgreens) will likely follow with their own restrictions. The greater concern may be the inability to resupply those stocks for months thereafter due to supply-chain disruptions. Many of those products and/or their ingredients are sourced from China or other Asian countries hit hard by this pandemic. This will leave many people vulnerable, especially during the more virulent second or subsequent waves of the pandemic.

    My impression is that cold and flu products have been readily available in most stores and pharmacies in my Central Valley, CA region. That may change, depending on locale and number of suspected/confirmed infected. Note that the general public is competing with the military and health care systems who are also scrambling to get product as their wholesale suppliers run short.

    This supply restriction is actually coming at least a month sooner than I expected. Like many people, now I'm reassessing whether I have enough of natural and OTC cold flu fighters. (In addition to my fish/bird antibiotics and books for reference.)  :-/

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 9:45am

    Nacho_avg_Joe

    Nacho_avg_Joe

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    Not everyone has a long incubartion

    Not all of the cases are long incubation so it couldn't hurt to have the stuff to isolate on hand.  I can't remember the stats, but a meaningful portion get sick pretty quickly (in a matter of days).

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 9:47am

    #67

    berensma

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 10 2011

    Posts: 17

    3

    India announces list of drugs restricted for export

    India Drug Restrictions Noti 50_0 --pdf of India drugs now restricted for shipment

    This just came through on a professional site I subscribe to--it seems like substantial news--to have India announcing this before anyone else has.

    There is a link in here to a list of the drugs. I am going through it now to add some notes about the drugs and their uses and will update shortly with that. It looks like the list comprises mostly antivirals, antibiotics, antifungals, etc, as well as B vitamins.

    https://www.fiercepharma.com/manufacturing/coronavirus-spurs-india-to-restrict-exports-two-dozen-drugs?mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiWmpFM09UQmpaRGxoTldaaSIsInQiOiJiYXFEbmZJZUJxb01OdVZFMGhTeWhPeDZIK0ZTSVdHRVFkSCtPQ3ZiV2RuRERqd3dCZVhmaVwvdHFsbUVvWURwcE1XUGpQTjZQVDJFQTlwYVpoWWtzVllqXC9xM2hZK3RNV2dMMjdBNnJjQTBvN0pzb3NXQ0F2SWw0WExydjV5Y29FIn0%3D&mrkid=627663

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 9:55am

    #68
    ddelong

    ddelong

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    Joined: Jan 20 2015

    Posts: 35

    4

    Re: Age demographics

    Wow,

     

    I really hadn't thought about this rather significant impact in the 60 to 80+ population.  If that would play out by the current numbers here in the usa that would have an impact on especially the unfunded Social Security liabilities, it could reduce the unfunded liabilities going forward by around 0.5 to .75 Trillion a year especially once the larger, but population reduced 60-69 cohort comes into full Social Security retirement.

     

    A morbid thought. but something I had yet to ponder.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 10:15am

    #69
    pat the rat

    pat the rat

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    Joined: Nov 01 2011

    Posts: 149

    0

    rumore

    If the test for covid 19 is negative test taker pays for the test, if it is positive you pay for the quarantine. The government of the U.S. loves to cut it's own neck!Hope this one is not true?

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 10:18am

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    1

    Isolation room for recoverd, newcomers?

    Hi CJRinMN, I agree that people within the household could be asymptomatic, spreading the virus and therefore minimizing or negating the value of a separate space for isolation/quarantine. However, there might be some use in having an isolation room to keep the recovered separate from the sick as getting re-infected might be even more severe. The timing on this would be tricky, especially as there are still so many unknowns about this virus and its severity regarding shedding and infectivity.

    There may also be family members or others you care about that may not have been in your initial isolation group. Letting any new people into your group should be weighed heavily against the risks, of course. In such cases, it might be useful to have an self-contained room in/out side of your immediate family spaces to isolate any newcomers. If so, I would isolate them for at least 30 days, possibly up to 45 days and take all necessary precautions.

    Good question--thanks!

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 10:19am

    Barbara

    Barbara

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    Joined: Dec 15 2009

    Posts: 180

    1

    Culling the Elderly - age demographics

    Yes, it might well reduce our US SS deficit by a bit, but these deaths are not cheap.  Until we fill all the hospital beds with the elderly severe cases and are forced to let people die quickly, the system will run up huge medicare expenses to fight this loosing battle.  It could offset the SS gains.
    I did notice that already WA was NOT taking obviously very sick nursing home patients to hospitals.  So are we already rationing medical care in the US by avoiding testing until the case is too severe to bother?  We'll just leave them in the nursing home, like people were left on the plague Princess.
    For those of us over 60 or with elders to worry about, this isn't a pleasant thought.
    I'd add if Covid reduces the number of chronically sick there would be more long-term savings.  Unfortunately, again the cost of the hospitalization could offset several years of gain.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 10:24am

    Jay Pine

    Jay Pine

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    0

    Viral load

    • As viral load is a factor in recovering well, any way you make sure members of the same household don't reinfect each other would be good I'm guessing. Some horror stories out of China of all 4 members of a household (in a small apartment) getting ill and dying during lockdown.
    • Separating and using masks/PPE/infection control gives you the best chance if hospital is out of the question.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 10:25am

    #73
    Vilbas

    Vilbas

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    Joined: Aug 14 2014

    Posts: 32

    1

    Vilbas said:

    I believe the near-term costs related to covid19 will far surpass any savings there'd be related to culling of the elderly population.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 10:40am

    #74
    Mrs. Bohall

    Mrs. Bohall

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    Joined: Jan 30 2020

    Posts: 8

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    Mask alternative?

    I found this page a few days ago and am planning on doing the DIY “gas mask” as an alternative to the cloth masks.

    That being said, I also plan on doing my shopping in the middle of the night too…if the virus gets close to us here (I live in the Midwest).

    Any thoughts on this link would be appreciated… perhaps the info included in the article could be a help to all of us trying to be smart about this whole mess…

    The video describing how to make your own gas mask is about half way down the article... (I couldn't figure out how to post just the individual video so that's why I have the link to the whole article...)

    https://www.primalsurvivor.net/diy-activated-charcoal/

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 10:55am

    #75
    ddelong

    ddelong

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    Joined: Jan 20 2015

    Posts: 35

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    Diabetic Insulin Dependent Prepping

    FIRST THINGS FIRST:  I AM NOT A DOCTOR, CHANGING INSULIN THERAPY CAN BE DANGEROUS AND SHOULD BE PERFORMED WITH THE ASSISTANCE OF A MEDICAL PROVIDER.  ALSO IF YOU MAKE A SWITCH IN INSULIN THERAPY YOU NEED TO TEST YOUR BLOOD GLUCOSE MORE OFTEN  UNTIL YOU ARE DIALED IN ON THE NEW INSULIN THERAPY.

    I thought that I would share this Insulin Dependent Prep with everyone.  I know that most of us are on the fancier/newer/ungodly expensive without insurance insulins and sometimes insulin pumps.  For those of you that are old school or know old school insulin users; the Regular, NPH, and 70/30 sold by Walmart under the ReliOn brand is made by Novo Nordisk and is just rebranded Novolin line insulins for Walmart.  These insulins are widely available without a prescription, but some US states vary.  They are sold in 10 mL vials for around 25 dollars and also sell syringes for a little over 10 dollars for 100 syringes.  They are also introducing them in pen form but they are not everywhere yet.

    Now every US state is a bit different on what, when and how much of these insulins and syringes can be purchased.  You'll need to check with your state for the particulars.  I found out the hard way on vacation that Florida sells syringes without a prescription, but not in Broward County.

    I always have a 6 months worth prep supply that I rotate and I give supplies that are within 3 months of going off expiration to pet owners whose pets need the insulin.  That way it doesn't go unused.

    So between my normal insulin routine supplies and my deep prep insulin routine supplies, I have a years worth of diabetes meds so I can weather a significant interruption and also put things right if I need to right off into the sunset due to some unforeseen craziness.

     

    I hope this helps someone out.

     

    D

     

     

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 11:00am

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    3

    Berensma, re: India restricts pharma exports due to coronavirus

    Berensma, thank you for this very important, well-sourced information. I'm reposting the links below with an article excerpt in case others missed them.

    About the list of 26 restricted APIs and formularies (link below), you said, "It looks like the list comprises mostly antivirals, antibiotics, antifungals, etc, as well as B vitamins." That encompasses a lot of medicines and supplements!  Thank you also for augmenting that list with comments regarding the drugs and their use. I look forward to your posting that updated list when ready. I'm sure Chris and others within the PP community will find it enlightening and useful.

    Coronavirus spurs India to restrict exports of 2 dozen drugs

    "The country, which accounts for about 40% of U.S. generic drugs, has halted exports of more than two dozen APIs and drugs....[API/formularies] range from paracetamol––the ingredient in Tylenol––to antivirals like acyclovir for treating shingles and antibiotic neomycin. "

    "...Dinesh Dua, chairman of the Pharmaceuticals Export Promotion Council of India, told Reuters, “Irrespective of the ban, some of these molecules may face shortages for the next couple of months.” If interruptions from the virus get worse, he said, some shortages may become “acute.”

    "India gets nearly 70% of its ingredients and drugs from China and then manufactures many of them for export to the rest of the world. A serious interruption in its supply lines could track directly to the U.S., creating shortages or forcing up prices."

    https://www.fiercepharma.com/manufacturing/coronavirus-spurs-india-to-restrict-exports-two-dozen-drugs

    Global supplier India curbs drug exports as coronavirus fears grow (Reuters link here )

    Drugmakers tell analyst ingredient prices are rising as FDA reports first supply hit tied to COVID-19

    https://www.fiercepharma.com/manufacturing/fda-reports-first-covid-19-tied-drug-shortage-but-producers-tell-bernstein-more-to-be

    Notice/List of Restricted API, Formularies:   https://dgft.gov.in/sites/default/files/Noti%2050_0.pdf

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 11:02am

    #77
    km64

    km64

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    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 88

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    Regarding COVID-19 testing

    One of the news articles I posted above indicated the state of Indiana has 900 testing kits available.  I'd imagine every state is getting a shipment now of some quantity of testing kits. I'd assume that as more kits are produced states will receive additional. Elsewhere I saw that the military are getting testing kits for our bases, domestic and overseas.

    Given that everyone cannot be tested, how would YOU decide who to test?

    That is the question state health departments are facing.

    I would say the priority would be

    1) any first responder/health care worker who might have had contact with a confirmed case

    2) suspected cases based on current disease profile

    3) then other contacts the suspected subject had.

    Just something to keep in mind when ranting about insufficient testing at the moment.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 11:07am

    #78
    km64

    km64

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    Joined: Feb 03 2020

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    Weaponizing Hate with COVID-19

    As if we don't have enough to worry about...

    https://kdvr.com/news/local/if-i-do-get-coronavirus-im-attending-every-maga-rally-i-can-denver-councilwoman-quotes-solidarity-to-tweet/

    https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/culture/gabriel-hays/2020/02/28/insane-podcast-host-tweets-about-spreading-coronavirus-trump

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 11:11am

    Heather Johnson

    Heather Johnson

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 05 2012

    Posts: 4

    1

    I was wondering this as well ...

    MiguelitoDeSilva,

    Thank you for posting this link.  I read it last night and was about to post the link for Chris' input.

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/03/bill-sardi/trump-halts-cdc-fearmongering-but-why-are-antibiotics-not-anti-virals-quelling-the-covid-19-coronavirus-is-it-really-a-virus/

    Chris and Adam, Thank you for all your work.  I have watched every video Chris has put out on the coronavirus; I really appreciate all the information.

    HJ

     

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 11:26am

    #80
    ddelong

    ddelong

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 20 2015

    Posts: 35

    2

    Re: Weaponizing Hate

    I can't believe that it has already come to people talking going a la Typhoid Mary with this to take out political opponents.  Sometimes I am really ashamed of the ludicrous behavior of some of our fellow americans.  I am trying to stay positive for my wife that doesn't want to hear about this, a 70+ year old mother with co-morbities, and 70+ year old father in a nursing home.  Since 2008 I question everything and don't align myself with anything out of blind faith, the information drives my decision making whenever possible.

    Then we have these political bleeding hearts that want to take out as many of their opposition as possible.

    I am a diabetic and might not fair well if I catch this,  I have nothing other than to say shame on people like that.  Their attitude towards political "victory" disgusts me.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 11:30am

    #81
    Kat43

    Kat43

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    Joined: Feb 10 2020

    Posts: 48

    0

    Demographics

    Both ends - loss of frail elderly, and a baby boom in areas of imposed quarantine.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 11:38am

    #82
    km64

    km64

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    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 88

    1

    Making your own hand sanitiser

    https://www.sciencealert.com/making-your-own-hand-sanitiser-is-easy-here-s-how

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 11:44am

    Ision

    Ision

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    Joined: Feb 07 2020

    Posts: 125

    1

    Becoming symptomatic after initial infection...

    The majority of patients begin to display characteristic symptoms in about four days, with longer incubation times for others, spread out, even past the 14th day. Some small percentage of the infected  seem to exhibit extremely long incubation times, possibly over a month long.

    We have much to learn about this pathogen and its nature.  One-Size does not fit all...here.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 12:00pm

    Pipyman

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 24 2011

    Posts: 113

    0

    Agree

    I didn’t even consider it. I just don’t know how it would be practical in reality. I also suspect I’ll be long exposed before everyday life and work can legitimately be put on hold. No, it’s a comin...

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 12:06pm

    #85

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1047

    2

    Age Demographics

    The 1918 flu had several waves of the flu.  The Honey Badger may as well.  Second and third waves may hit younger populations harder  much like the 1918 Pandemic did.   Time will tell.

    Don’t chalk this one up to just being “an old people’s disease”.  It could come back and bite you!

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 12:11pm

    #86
    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    1

    Time2help's petition to close WA school in Covid epicenter

    Hi everyone, Please take a minute to visit this forum thread posted by Time2help:

    https://www.peakprosperity.com/forum-topic/school-closure-petition-please-sign/

    Consider signing the petition to close the schools in the Washington "ground zero" area where the Covid exposures and deaths are rapidly increasing.  Thanks!

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 12:12pm

    #87
    chloecasey

    chloecasey

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 25 2008

    Posts: 26

    1

    Personal Experience

    Our son flew back and forth to the Bay Area (California) to visit grandparents during the February 22-23 weekend. He also spend the subsequent week at school and band practice with tons of kids coughing their heads off.  One of the kids had gone to the doctor who was tested for flu and the doctor said "it isn't flu, it must be some other virus" and left it at that! The kid was back in school the next day coughing all over the place.  The high school has NO rule requiring kids with a fever or coughing/sneezing to stay home!!!  Saturday night our son came home from band competition feeling achy and with a sore throat. He woke up Sunday morning feeling really achy and a sore throat but no fever. That afternoon he had a fever of 101.4. He has had a low grade fever on and off since then. He only started coughing today.

    With that said, this is the real reason for my post. The doctor prescribed him Tamiflu and since you are supposed to take it no more than 48 hours after symptoms start, I couldn't use the mail order pharmacy like I usually do. Kaiser doesn't use Walgreens, etc. so I had to go to an actual Kaiser Pharmacy.  I did not plan on leaving the farm for any reason but now I had to go not only into public but to a place where sick people congregate (I am not a hypochondriac or usually very worried about germs)!  I wore my mask and gloves into the Kaiser Clinic.

    What I saw kind of shocked me.  I was one of only four people wearing a mask and only one of two people wearing gloves. The other person wearing both gloves and mask was ONE (repeat ONE) of the Kaiser employees. She was the only one out of probably 30 or so Kaiser employees that I saw wearing any protection. This includes 7 or so front line pharmacy folks taking everyone's prescription, 3 people intaking sick people for appointments, pharmacists, nurses walking around, and even the person runing the snack bar. People looked at me like I was an alien.

    The more amazing part is that the Kaiser clinic usually has hand sanitizer dispensers at the pharmacy and at clinic checkin. I did not see one!  They also usually have a "mask" station with a sign that says something like take one and put it on if you are coughing or sneezing. There was none to be found anywhere - not even an empty station!

    There were at least 4 or 5 kids (and 1 or 2 adults) coughing up a storm with NO protection!  There wasn't any "coughing into your elbow" going on as well.  I stayed at least 20 feet away from them. Only one conscientious parent had a surgery mask on their coughing kid to keep him from infecting anyone else.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 12:16pm

    Ision

    Ision

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 07 2020

    Posts: 125

    6

    Home Containment Rooms....

    I doubt the average home will allow the containment of a high R=0 pathogen to a single room...or any room sharing the same air supply...especially if the pathogen is aerosol transmission capable.

    If one brings an infected pathogen generator into the standard, single-family, detached, home, and the pathogen has an R=0 factor of SARS-CoV-2, which is much higher than the common flu, say around R=4, or more, I do not think it is possible to contain it within the same living space.

    If a loved one becomes infected, by the time you realize it, you will also probably be infected, also.  One could literally go about making their entire home virus proof from any outside sources...while everyone inside the home is already infected and does not realize it.   And, most will not know if they simply have caught the common flu, or some other respiratory ailment, as there is no test available outside of a clinic, possibly swimming in virus' of all sorts.

    Imagine just getting the flu, and ALSO, getting Covid-19, while seeking medical attention?

    Take the case of the family who all became infected by sharing one dinner with a single infected member...who was not showing symptoms at the time.

    If a person inside your home becomes infected, expect to be infected no matter how careful you are.

    So, embrace your infected loved ones as you gracefully embrace your mortality...and drop all the fantasies of remaining virus free.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 12:23pm

    #89
    kunga

    kunga

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    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 368

    0

    No longer "Bat-shit crazy"

    I propose a new term: " Bat-soup crazy."  Since we are making up our own terms for things.    🐱🐱  Gets by all the censorship, too.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 12:27pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

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    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    0

    Update: 9 dead in Washington from Covid-2019

    "The newly reported deaths – an increase from six on Tuesday – come from King County. They include an earlier death in the state that has now been linked to the coronavirus."

    https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2020-03-03/9-dead-in-washington-from-coronavirus

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 12:27pm

    #91
    KathyP

    KathyP

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    Joined: Jun 19 2008

    Posts: 51

    0

    Does Flu Do This?

    Following the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS-CoV) and Middle East respiratory syndrome coronavirus (MERS-CoV), another highly pathogenic coronavirus named SARS-CoV-2 (previously known as 2019-nCoV) emerged in December 2019 in Wuhan, China, and rapidly spreads around the world. This virus shares highly homological sequence with SARS-CoV, and causes acute, highly lethal pneumonia (COVID-19) with clinical symptoms similar to those reported for SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV. The most characteristic symptom of COVID-19 patients is respiratory distress, and most of the patients admitted to the intensive care could not breathe spontaneously. Additionally, some COVID-19 patients also showed neurologic signs such as headache, nausea and vomiting. Increasing evidence shows that coronavriruses are not always confined to the respiratory tract and that they may also invade the central nervous system inducing neurological diseases. The infection of SARS-CoV has been reported in the brains from both patients and experimental animals, where the brainstem was heavily infected. Furthermore, some coronaviruses have been demonstrated able to spread via a synapse-connected route to the medullary cardiorespiratory center from the mechano- and chemoreceptors in the lung and lower respiratory airways. In light of the high similarity between SARS-CoV and SARS-CoV2, it is quite likely that the potential invasion of SARS-CoV2 is partially responsible for the acute respiratory failure of COVID-19 patients. Awareness of this will have important guiding significance for the prevention and treatment of the SARS-CoV-2- induced respiratory failure. (229 words)

    excerpted from: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1002/jmv.25728

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 12:28pm

    #92

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1047

    0

    A Positive Test May Not Test For Virus At All! - What?

    Soooo just how do those tests work?

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 12:39pm

    Mrs. Bohall

    Mrs. Bohall

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    Joined: Jan 30 2020

    Posts: 8

    0

    WOW!!! I'm seeing this whole thing a COMPLETELY different way now!!

    OM Goodness!!  This article has just TOTALLY changed my perspective and I'm not easily swayed (at least I don't think so).

    Thank you SO VERY MUCH for posting this link!

    Chris Rock once said in a stand-up routine "there's no money in the cure."  Such truth.

    After reading this article I am begging Chris to please also read it and respond. I feel like sending this link to everyone I know. All of sudden, I'm not as stressed out about this whole thing like I was half an hour ago. I've been following this "virus" since it started hitting the airwaves back in mid-January. I've stocked up on food and other necessities (including masks/respirators) as well as cleaning stuff. We have a 7yr old here at the house and I've been trying to instill more stringent health habits to prepare her for what may be coming. (try getting a kid to keep their hands away from their face and not touch anything while out in public - quite an adventure. I've had total strangers look at me weird when I tell her to keep her hands in her pockets at all times...)

    I've reached out to my parents and elderly aunts to try to help them prepare. I've anticipated staying home for an extended period of time (easy for me, I'm a homemaker and I homeschool the kid) while trying to figure out how I would insist my husband strip down to be disinfected before he steps into the house and directly into a shower (he's not too keen on my plan, lol).

    I feel like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders...

    Chris...please.... respond to this article. We value your insight, intelligence and knowledge base.

    The link is in comment #30 by MiguelitoDeSilva. Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU for this. I feel like I can finally take a deep breath (so to speak, lol)

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 12:52pm

    jmichaelzenn

    jmichaelzenn

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    Joined: Jun 29 2015

    Posts: 1

    0

    DEATH RATE IN SEATTLE

    I hope this will get better but Right now in WA state we have 9 dead and only 27 cases. Thats a death rate of 33%!

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 1:09pm

    #95
    Kozak

    Kozak

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 03 2020

    Posts: 2

    2

    Kozak said:

    Hi.  I have a possible solution for anyone trying to figure out how to sanitize masks or other items.   UV light particularly UVc  wavelengths are good for sanitizing items.  I make a homemade UV light box.

    UVc bulb from Amazon.  A plastic container from an office supply store.  A work light with a removable cover  from Lowes, and a roll of metal foil tape.

    Cut a hole in the top or side of the box. Insert the work light, glue or tape to secure.  Line the inside with the  the metal foil tape to reflect the light.

    If I find myself needing to sanitize my half face N 95 rubber mask, or the disposable ones or anything else, I plan to spray down with bleach.  Expose to UV for 30 minutes.

    Put item aside for at least 5 days.  Then if needed reuse.  I can't guarantee this will work, but it's got to be better than nothing.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 1:17pm

    George Karpouzis

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 17 2009

    Posts: 189

    0

    Death rate in Seattle is highly skewed

    Don’took too much into that. The virus hit a long term care facility. Several of the deceased in their 80s. They are testing known contacts as well.

    Look at South Korea for the alternative with a current .7 percent CFR. That will sadly rise but it demonstrates a much lower CFR as the Koreans are testing EVERYONE And their mother

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 1:24pm

    Mike from Jersey

    Mike from Jersey

    Status: Member

    Joined: Jan 22 2018

    Posts: 89

    3

    China

    I was China when this virus broke out. My girlfriend is still there caring for her parents. We talk about twice a week. She tells me that the response of the Chinese Government has been nothing short of astonishing - and in a very positive fashion.

    I worry that if the SHTF - here in the United States - that the response will be a mess. I have seen the decline in government functioning and social responsibility going on here for decades. I fear that the response will be a mess.

    I hope not, but that is my fear.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 1:34pm

    #98
    Singmay Chou

    Singmay Chou

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 25 2020

    Posts: 1

    1

    Coronavirus self test and prevention?

    I received the following from a friend.  I have no idea whether these are valid tips or not?  Chris, can you or someone comment?

    Just wanna share this with everybody.
    My Cornell University classmate’s nephew, graduated with a master's degree, and works in Shenzhen Hospital.  He is being transferred to Wuhan to study the new pneumonia virus.  He just called and asked me to tell all my relatives and friends that if a runny nose and sputum occur during a cold, it cannot be concluded that it is new-type coronavirus pneumonia.  Because coronavirus pneumonia is a dry cough without runny nose, this is the simplest way to identify it.  He also informed that the new type of coronary pneumonia virus is not heat-resistant and will be killed in an environment of 26-27 degrees. Therefore, drink plenty of hot water to prevent the virus. As long as the body maintains heat, eat more ginger and do more  Exercise, you will not be infected with the virus.  If you have a high fever, cover yourself with the quilt and drink ginger soup to increase the body's heat energy without the need for a!
      vaccine.  Eating more ginger, garlic pepper, and pepper can solve it; eat less sweet, sour, and salty, and don't go to cold weather areas.  The virus will disappear completely when exposed to the sun
    AS RECEIVED: The new NCP coronavirus may not show sign of infection for many days, how can one know if he/she is infected. By the time they have fever and/or cough and goes to the hospital, the lungs is usually 50 % Fibrosis and it's too late!
    Taiwan experts provide a simple self-check that we can do every morning:
    Take a deep breath and hold your breath for more than 10 seconds. If you complete it successfully without coughing, without discomfort, stuffiness or tightness etc it proves there is no fibrosis in the lungs, basically indicating no infection.
    In critical times, please self-check every morning in an environment with clean air!
    SERIOUS EXCELLENT ADVICE by Japanese doctors treating COVID-19 cases.  Everyone should ensure your mouth & throat is moist, never DRY. Take a few sips of water every 15 mins at least. WHY?  Even if the virus gets into your mouth...drinking water or other liquids will WASH them down through your oesophagus and into the stomach. Once there in tummy...your stomach ACID will kill all the virus. If you don't drink enough water more regularly...the virus can enter your windpipes and into the LUNGS. That's very dangerous.
    Pls send and share with family, friends and everyone about this ! Take care everyone n may the world recovers from corona virus soon. May all be well n happy 🙏

     

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 1:43pm

    #99

    stpaulmercantile

    Status: Member

    Joined: Nov 20 2008

    Posts: 18

    2

    Vietnam has exponential growth of viral pneumonia cases

    I think you are dismissing too quickly the diagnosing of Covid19 based upon viral pneumonia cases.  If the number of cases of viral pneumonia in a country is in the same ballpark as previous months (or same month last year) then there would be no reason to assume the current cases are Covid19.  If the number of cases is growing exponentially, as they are in Vietnam, it is a reasonable assumption that these are Covid19 cases.  Vietnam is not reporting these viral pneumonia cases as Covid19, probably to make their Covid19  numbers look good.  Frank Vaughan pulled the viral pneumonia numbers off a Vietnamese medical website.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 2:01pm

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1047

    0

    Mrs. Bohall

    I think you are on to something.

    Remember the trucks in Wuhan.

    The BIG, BIG, trucks in Wuhan, driving around spraying?  What were they spraying?  What were they trying to kill?  Have you EVER heard of an American neighborhood, or any other country, where neighborhoods are sprayed?  How could a virus end up on the outsides of buildings, windows, high-rises?  Come on were are missing a piece of the puzzle.

    Probably unintentionally this disease  was spread all over the city and everything (buildings, streets, trees) had to be decontaminated.  It fits the evidence.

    Lets stay tuned, the evidence and truth cant be hidden forever.

     

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 2:07pm

    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jun 04 2012

    Posts: 464

    0

    BC update March 3rd

    Another case in the Fraser Valley, east of Vancouver 🙁

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 2:08pm

    Vilbas

    Vilbas

    Status: Member

    Joined: Aug 14 2014

    Posts: 32

    3

    Vilbas said:

    Maybe I'm alone on this one but that Lew Rockwell site/article is all over the place and screams untrustworthy to me.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 2:10pm

    sebastian

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 08 2010

    Posts: 21

    0

    Home containment

    Hi CJ, I basically concur that isolation rooms when you have three kids are basically useless. They r hard to train little super spreaders 🙂

    If reinfection is a thing than that might be a good option though... but with asymptomatic spreading... good luck to us all

    Seb.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 2:15pm

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1047

    1

    Vilbas

    No one has gives an explanation for why gigantic trucks (not 1 but many) would drive around a big city and sanitize it.  Why, what infected an entire city?

    Ever seen gigantic trucks disinfect San Francisco or say New York? For a cold virus?

    Why the coverup?

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 2:22pm

    George Karpouzis

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 17 2009

    Posts: 189

    1

    US response will be an utter mess

    I agree with you that the US is going to be an epic shitshow

     

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 2:23pm

    George Karpouzis

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 17 2009

    Posts: 189

    0

    Can a lockdown kill the virus?

    Is it possible, by locking everyone down for a month, that we can kill the virus?

    If no one is coming into contact the virus cant spread. Those that are sick either heal at home or die. After a month, is it safe to presume that the area is free of virus?

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 2:30pm

    Sparky1

    Sparky1

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jul 21 2016

    Posts: 753

    1

    Rockwell article and CDC "Covid hysteria"

    Ditto for me, Vilbas. If anything, I feel the CDC has not been proactive or responsive enough, except with regard to partnering with the WHO and social media execs to battle the "Infodemic". I don't have time to re-read the Rockwell article in depth, but from my initial reading it came across to me as "Nothing to worry about here; CDC/people are over-reacting, aka "Covid-hysteria"; this is not as bad as...TB, etc." spin. I suspect there's a political element to this article and others on that website, "Trump Halts CDC Fearmongering."

    "Nothing to fear except fear itself," right? I think not.

    Still, I'd be interested in Chris' perspective as to whether he's aware of any evidence that the novel coronavirus is not a virus after all.

     

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 2:37pm

    Steve

    Steve

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 27 2009

    Posts: 183

    1

    Health Minister of Iran claims 60,000 cases of Covid-19

    Start at 4:00 minutes.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 2:43pm

    Bleep

    Bleep

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 07 2017

    Posts: 54

    1

    Lower incidence in Tropical China

    Southern Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macau, and Hainan Island are all in the Tropics and exhibiting lower incidence of COVID-19.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 2:47pm

    pawch

    pawch

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2020

    Posts: 25

    0

    Magnesium

    You might consider adding a chelated magnesium (not as MgO) to your regimen for LAF and COVID 19.

    http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v16n04.shtml

    http://moscow.sci-hub.tw/1687/b716f6d3601950487775a6ba46479747/chambers2007.pdf

     

     

     

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 2:53pm

    thc0655

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 27 2010

    Posts: 2083

    0

    The wisdom of the CDC: peak trust in the rear view mirror

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 3:05pm

    drbrucedale

    drbrucedale

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 06 2009

    Posts: 126

    0

    a relevant datum on age and COVID 19

    I am a family history buff.  My grandmother's brother, Ernest John Stenger, age 21, young, strong and healthy, died in September 1918-- in the second wave of the Spanish Flu.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 3:15pm

    planfortomorrow

    planfortomorrow

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 28 2017

    Posts: 155

    3

    " I would rather be a year early than a day Late"

    I have lived by this simple sentence for over 12 years. I simply have prepared to be prepared and resilient since I first came here to your sight and later yours and Adam's site.. It just made perfect sense. During these years I have been tested and have NOT failed in any preparations when tested by something that happened in our neighborhood. I have also collected over kill items on the cheap. I knew I would need from neighbors or friends their skill set that I could use when needed. We had a long power outage and so I lent a whole house generator to an Italian neighbor. Now, he's a brick layer so I asked him for a bid on my Log Cabin fireplace and hearth and just received his estimate: materials only with a note of thanks for the time I let him use my generator while he was raising 4 young boys at the time. We are and will be life long friends.

    Chris, this Virus will cause very strong Financial issues and The Fed did what they did today, lowering by 50bp the interest rate. They see something, maybe it's in the Repo market but, they are running scared. It also seems to me that China will cause severe repercussions by being the manufacture of the World

    What I am saying Chris is you really have stepped up here and have been a leader among Giants in how you have logically looked at each country now with the virus. The United States allowed Washington to go along for 6 weeks without testing the Folks in Washington. It could very well be that the entire State gets closed down and the good Folks have to lock in for a month or so and may end up being a very, very serious issue. At the very least it was handled poorly, a terrible mistake.

    Nice Chris. Now, make sure you take time for yourself and relax too. I'm exhausted at my research and following the Market, I can only imagine your day looking at texts, emails and searching your trusted sight. So, be careful. Peace

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 6:16pm

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 736

    2

    Re positive test for covid 19

    I am a man of science but able to appreciate spirituality at the same time. But, for me science can be valid but it can be easily misinterpreted. However, I have no issuse ( 0 issues ) with a clinical diagnosis covid without laboratory tests.. Actually, I believe they can have more false positive or negative than a clinical presentation.. For you or me currently , it may be difficult to make a clinical diagnosis for Covid 19 ( though i really think it would be easy for me on this one ) but I guarantee a clinician who has seen and treated 100s if not 1000s of positive cases., would be able to diagnose the disease in 6 seconds without any imaging at all or even listening to breath sounds.. But when adding blood cell counts, temperature, hypoxia, and radiographs of lungs, it should all be nothing but confirmatory.. I know there may be some out-liers, But none of this , I have a problem with. They do tons of clinical diagnosis here in the country everyday one that is a garbage basket mostly - and no one second guesses it . its called depression.. tell me the last patient that got tested for that bio-chemically? never none.. because if they did - they couldnt use it as a catch-all for inadequacies in diagnosing. But trust me - pneumonia is not subjective.. you can try to figure out whether its bacterial or viral for treatment purposes. but one thing is for sure.. its not subjective using a radiograph of the lungs. So, there are only a few things that would cause such severe respiratory illness ( one is the current epidemic ) it would make sense to assume that if you are seeing lots of these pneumonia cases - which are not common - but while epidemic - this is not a far leap.. and this moron has no reason to post such a video.. In fact, id move to using this as easier way to diagnose - especially in the US where testing is sub-par or non-existent.

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 6:26pm

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 736

    0

    rockwell article is garbage

    No science , just supposition.. antibiotics do not help this illness we do give them anyway in severe cases.. and some do resolve and some do not.. there are co-infections that set in when you are ill.. getting bacterial pneumonia after having the flu is well documented.. but the flu symptoms is not caused by bacterial pneumonia. this is a garbage work.. dont waste time with it,

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  • Tue, Mar 03, 2020 - 6:53pm

    AKGrannyWGrit

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2011

    Posts: 1047

    0

    Not So Fast - Not Garbage

    Chris - would love your feedback.
    nordicjack - are you a Doctor or researcher?  Have you reviewed this Doctor?

    The article was based on an interview with this guy. Doesn’t look like garbage to me.  I may not hold advanced degrees but when things don’t make sense - thats a problem for me.  There is a big piece of the puzzle missing and just maybe, by searching and asking we will find it.

    • Lawrence Broxmeyer, MD
    Pennsylvania internist and medical researcher Lawrence
    Broxmeyer, MD, was on the staff at New York affiliates of
    Downstate, Cornell and NYU for 14 years. He was the
    originator and lead author of a novel way to kill AIDS
    mycobacteria (Journal Infectious Diseases; 186[8]:1155-60). His
    ideas on Phage Therapy are still in use today. He contributed a
    chapter to the textbook Patho-Biotechnology (Landes
    Bioscience). His peer-reviewed articles are available on
    PubMed, and he is a sought after reviewer for many peer-reviewed
    publications: among them, the Journal of Alzheimer’s Disease.
    Dr. Broxmeyer’s signature, well-referenced, thought-provoking articles
    are widely known for bringing new thought and interesting slants,
    both to recent, and decades old medical issues.

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  • Wed, Mar 04, 2020 - 12:33am

    gyrogearloose

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Sep 08 2008

    Posts: 357

    0

    Death rate

    Yesterday I did an update on my estimates of the death rate by 2 methods.

    First was in a spreadsheet with a column set to grow at an exponential rate tuned to match the published Chinese data for total cases. next to it I had a column as a % of deaths (initially set at 2 as per WHO claims ) but day shifted by a 9 day delay to simulate the delay between diagnosis and death ( I also ran it at 11 days) then a column of the death rate calculated the way the media worked it out, today's death divided by today's total cases and then goal seaked the % in column 2 to find the death rate.

    If delay was 9 days to death , rate came out at 6%

    at 11 days rate was 9%

    The second method was to use that days published numbers of 87k cases, 3k deaths and 7k critical, and information from elsewhere that of critical cases 66% die, and working on the assumption that of the 7k currently critical 66% of the will die the death rate is  (7000*.66+3000)/87000  or 8.9%   ( truncated numbers shown here from memory )

    These methods are approximate an a rough attempt to account for exponential growth issue.

    And in the last 3 hrs the WHO has upped the death rate from 2 to 3.4%

    as to the demographic spread,again from memory and from a source that claimed a 2% overall rate so presume they all need to be multiplied by 4 as a rough first guess to account for the 2% death rate error

    0 to 10 yrs  0%

    10 to 40    .2%

    40 to 50    .5%

    50 to 60   1.3%  ( my one so I know the number!!}

    60 to 70     5%

    70 to 80     9%

    80 +           14,6%

    But given the 2% overall claim I am assuming for my planning that the numbers need to be multiplied by 4 until I see better data

    This is set to decimate the retirees.

    Take care Hamish

     

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  • Wed, Mar 04, 2020 - 12:41am

    gyrogearloose

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Sep 08 2008

    Posts: 357

    0

    Idiot of the day from New Zealand

    We just got our second confirmed case. (in NZ)

    She flew back from northern Italy on 25 Feb to her hometown of Auckland ( our biggest city ) and immediately flew to a smaller town 1hr away to work. A few days later she felt too sick to work so she flew back home  on the 2nd of march then went to the doctors........

    Husband now sick too and her son was at one school and her daughter at another (single sex schools)

    And the health officials said you cant spread it if you are not showing symptoms.

    Cheers Hamish

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  • Wed, Mar 04, 2020 - 9:36am

    Geedard

    Geedard

    Status: Member

    Joined: Oct 13 2014

    Posts: 63

    0

    Swiss National Bank and Apple Stock... Ohhhhh I can't wait to see the Q1 2020 13-F...did they sell early?

    Well this might be an interesting reveal….did the SNB sell at all?... or sell early...or hold their nerve?...or were they completely clueless?   Note to self: check 13-F filing. SNB Q1 2020 - for signs of hypocricy.    For example: Press spokesperson... "errrr nothing to see here, move on..."          Trading desk:   "Sell, sell, SELLLLLL" 🙂

    For a reminder of what happened in the past:

    Swiss National Bank Unexpectedly Sold US Stocks In Q3, Dumping Over 1 Million Apple Shares

     

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  • Wed, Mar 04, 2020 - 10:46am

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 736

    1

    NH man with virus told to self-isolate - goes to event

    NH’s 1st Coronavirus Patient, Told to Stay Isolated, Went to Event Instead

    I am not sure how stupid people can be - i know some people want to be lovejoy virus spreaders - but we should make this illegal. Why? because it can kill someone. I understand you cant stop everything but whne you are sick you should not go out to infect other people just because you want chocolate bar or fries or something.

    Why cant people be responsible for a few days? this is reckless and i believe most states have laws that would ordinarly put people in harms way where you would expect someone to be injured or killed. It reminds me of the martin zimmerman case-- this case was a simple conviction of zimmerman - but lawyers and people are too stupid to understand the basics of law. Its very simple to understand why zimmerman simply murdered martin.. - Why? because when the dispatcher told him to not pursue martin.. though not an order or legal order of any kind, there is implied law.. why? the reason she said it was she could see that it could have a deadly outcome - if a prudent person could see this enough to state this, and then have the outcome occur as she envisioned.. it is simple.. one would simply expect these actions by zimmerman to result in a bad out-come.. period.. he was reckless by any definition espeically when warned.. it was simple no prudent man would pursue a person in the dark.. with a gun.

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  • Wed, Mar 04, 2020 - 11:33am

    ao

    ao

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Feb 04 2009

    Posts: 1332

    0

    AKGranny, yes, entire neighborhoods have been sprayed in the US

    I've witnessed it being done for mosquitoes multiple times.

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  • Wed, Mar 04, 2020 - 11:59am

    chloecasey

    chloecasey

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 25 2008

    Posts: 26

    0

    Spraying

    They used to spray malathion by plane in California over all the suburbs to try to stop the fruit fly. Their advice was "just don't go out late at night" or "go inside when you hear the planes coming". I am sure it was all as safe as can be and I won't get cancer from it!  😉

     

    https://people.com/archive/californians-take-issue-with-the-pesticide-malathion-which-comes-in-on-medfly-wings-and-a-sprayer-vol-33-no-13/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_California_medfly_attack

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