Investing in Precious Metals 101 Ad
  • Blog

    Get Ready… Change Is Upon Us

    The 'economic peace' we've enjoyed for decades is over
    by Chris Martenson

    Saturday, November 12, 2016, 1:05 AM

“After four years of warfare that tore the world apart like never before, a peace was finally reached.  But it was a peace which one man in particular vociferously condemned — and that man was John Maynard Keynes.

In just two months, Keynes wrote the book that would make him a household name around the world — The Economic Consequences of the Peace.

In the book, Keynes was highly critical of the deal struck at Versailles, which he felt sure would lead to further conflict in Europe — describing the agreement as a “Carthaginian peace” — and with the passing of a surprisingly short period of time, he would be proven correct.”

   ~ Grant Williams in The Economic Consequences of Peace

After WWI, a particularly noxious set of treaties and economic reparations agreements were put in place that all but guaranteed a future WWII.   Mr. Keynes sniffed that out and, sadly, was proven correct.

The lesson from this is that, at certain times, it’s really not that hard to predict "what" is going to happen next after disastrously short-sighted and self-interested policies are enacted. Predicting the "when", with precision, is much trickier. But obvious misguided economic policies are destined to have a limited period of apparent (but false) prosperity, after which they end with a nasty Bang!.

We have entered just such a time. This isn't a Trump vs. Clinton thing; I'd make this claim regardless of who won this week's presidential election — as our plight is much bigger than a single Administration. And my observation is that neither political party had much interest beyond some temporary election year lip-service to the economic plight of the middle class.

And by “middle class” I mean anybody not in the top 5% economic bracket. For those doing the math at home, that leaves the remaining 95% of us stuck in the meat grinder.

WTF Happened?

I know a lot of people who are suffering very raw emotional wounds from the harsh negativity and divisiveness of the seemingly never-ending election we just went through.  There will be a period of healing and adjustment for many, and I can fully empathize with how they feel.

For the Clinton supporters stunned that she didn't experience the victory so many predicted, here's a “what went wrong” post-mortem given by the brilliant British comedian Jonathan Pie that I think hits close to the mark (caution: it's a pretty heated rant): 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs

Pie asks some very important questions, chief among them: Have we lost the ability to entertain alternative points of view? Are we ready to begin finally talking to each other again?

The Left has a lot of soul searching to do. As does the Right.  Because let’s be clear: Trump wasn’t the Republican’s preferred choice either.  They fought him tooth and nail. In terms of the traditional Left vs Right rivalry, both sides lost this time.

If we're to heal and progress from here, it's critical that we take the time to understand why.

The conversation has to begin here, I believe, with this excellent article that I ran across in Cracked – yes, the comedy alt-everything online outfit – explaining how it's the rural vs urban divide more than anything else that's pulling our society apart at the moment.

For those desperately seeking answers to Trump's surprise win, this article, of which I have reproduced only a small part, provides essential context. It's explanation has done wonders for everyone I have shared it with who was struggling:

How Half Of America Lost Its F**king Mind

Oct 12, 2016

[Note: please go to the article to read reasons #6 through #3 as they are very important for understanding the two I have snipped out below]

(…)

Reason #2:  Everyone Lashes Out When They Don't Have A Voice

[To a rural person] it really does feel like the worst of both worlds: all the ravages of poverty, but none of the sympathy. "Blacks burn police cars, and those liberal elites say it's not their fault because they're poor. My son gets jailed and fired over a baggie of meth, and those same elites make jokes about his missing teeth!" You're everyone's punching bag, one of society's last remaining safe comedy targets.

They take it hard. These are people who come from a long line of folks who took pride in looking after themselves. Where I'm from, you weren't a real man unless you could repair a car, patch a roof, hunt your own meat, and defend your home from an intruder. It was a source of shame to be dependent on anyone — especially the government. You mowed your own lawn and fixed your own pipes when they leaked, you hauled your own firewood in your own pickup truck. (Mine was a 1994 Ford Ranger! The current owner says it still runs!)

Not like those hipsters in their tiny apartments, or "those people" in their public housing projects, waiting for the landlord any time something breaks, knowing if things get too bad they can just pick up and move. When you don't own anything, it's all somebody else's problem. "They probably don't pay taxes, either! Just treating America itself as a subsidized apartment they can trash!"

The rural folk with the Trump signs in their yards say their way of life is dying, and you smirk and say what they really mean is that blacks and gays are finally getting equal rights and they hate it. But I'm telling you, they say their way of life is dying because their way of life is dying. It's not their imagination. No movie about the future portrays it as being full of traditional families, hunters, and coal mines. Well, except for Hunger Games, and that was depicted as an apocalypse.

So yes, they vote for the guy promising to put things back the way they were, the guy who'd be a wake-up call to the blue islands. They voted for the brick through the window.

It was a vote of desperation.

#1. Assholes Are Heroes

But Trump is objectively a piece of shit!" you say. "He insults people, he objectifies women, and cheats whenever possible! And he's not an everyman; he's a smarmy, arrogant billionaire!"

Wait, are you talking about Donald Trump, or this guy:

Marvel Studios

You've never rooted for somebody like that? Someone powerful who gives your enemies the insults they deserve? Somebody with big fun appetites who screws up just enough to make them relatable? Like Dr. House or Walter White? Or any of the several million renegade cop characters who can break all the rules because they get shit done? Who only get shit done because they don't care about the rules?

"But those are fictional characters!" Okay, what about all those millionaire left-leaning talk show hosts? You think they keep their insults classy? Tune into any bit about Chris Christie and start counting down the seconds until the fat joke. Google David Letterman's sex scandals. But it's okay, because they're on our side, and everybody wants an asshole on their team — a spiked bat to smash their enemies with. That's all Trump is. The howls of elite outrage are like the sounds of bombs landing on the enemy's fortress. The louder the better.

Already some of you have gotten angry, feeling this gut-level revulsion at any attempt to excuse or even understand these people. After all, they're hardly people, right? Aren't they just a mass of ignorant, rageful, crude, cursing, spitting subhumans?

Gee, I hope not. I have to hug a bunch of them at Thanksgiving. And when I do, it will be with the knowledge that if I hadn't moved away, I'd be on the other side of the fence, leaving nasty comments on this article.

The essential context is simply that rural residents are drowning under chronic economic blight. And when they dare to complain about it, they're castigated and humiliated by the dominant city culture that has no awareness of or sympathy for their troubles.

We've NAFTA'd away millions of manufacturing jobs (and those that served manufacturing communities) without providing the displaced labor a path to reskill and apply itself. Instead, we've left a patchwork of bomb crater communities across the heartland, where there are no employers and no prospects. To these rural folks, being cast as racist, misogynist, ignorant, or uneducated buffoons for being angry about their plight just adds kerosene to the fire that's been smoldering within theem. A fire which just conflagrated during this week's election.

So to reiterate: the cultural divide that's really in play here is not between the 'enlightened/progressive' people and their supposed opposites. Rather, it's Urban vs Rural.  

And as the rural dwellers have increasingly felt marginalized, demonized and otherwise unfairly treated, they are now angry enough at the perceived injustice to lash out against the status quo and roll the dice with an outsider who promises to shake things up. It's not surprising, really — as I've written about before, we humans are wired to reject unfairness. This next short video is a favorite of mine, because it perfectly demonstrates how it's in our genes to become enraged when we perceive we're being unjustly treated:

To put in in monkey terms: since surbanites set the rules because they happen to outvote the rural people, and those same urbanites don't have to live with the consequences of their decisions, then it's cucumbers for rural people and grapes for the urban folks.

Adding to this understanding is today's article by our good friend Charles Hughes Smith, who validates the rage the downtrodden are feeling these days:

The Source of our Rage: The Ruling Elite Is Protected from the Consequences of its Dominance

There are many sources of rage: injustice, the destruction of truth, powerlessness.

But if we had to identify the one key source of non-elite rage that cuts across all age, ethnicity, gender and regional boundaries, it is this: The Ruling Elite is protected from the destructive consequences of its predatory dominance.

We see this reality across the entire political, social and economic landscape. If I had to pick one chart that illustrates the widening divide between the Ruling Elite and the non-elites, it is this chart of wages as a share of the nation's output (GDP): 46 years of relentless decline, interrupted by gushing fountains of credit and asset bubbles that enriched the few while leaving the economic landscape of the many in ruins.

The Ruling Elite once had an obligation to uphold the social contract as a responsibility that came with their vast privilege, power and wealth (i.e. noblesse oblige).

America's Ruling Elite has transmogrified into an incestuous self-serving few unapologetically plundering the many. In their hubris-soaked arrogance, their right to rule is unquestioningly based on their moral and intellectual superiority to "the little people" they loot with abandon.

Rather than feel a responsibility to the nation, America's Elite views the status quo as a free pass to self-aggrandizement. Much has changed in America in the past 46 years. Not only have wages and salaries declined as a share of "economic growth," but the wealth that has been generated has flowed to the top of the wealth/power pyramid (see chart below).

Social mobility has also declined drastically: Restoring America’s Economic Mobility, as has trust in government and key institutions.

As Frank Buckley, the author of The Way Back: Restoring the Promise of America observed: "In a corrupt country, trust is a rare commodity. That’s America today. Only 19 percent of Americans say they trust the government most of the time, down from 73 percent in 1958 according to the Pew Research Center."

The top .01% has seen its share of the household wealth triple from 7% to 22% in the past four decades, while the share of the nation's wealth owned by the bottom 90% has plummeted from 36% to 23%.

Look at that.  The share of the national wealth has been steadily, if not increasingly, siphoned away from the 95% and towards the 5%.  In reality, it's almost entirely gone towards the 0.1%.

The economic “peace” we’ve seemingly enjoyed over the past number of decades turned out to be no peace at all. It was the same sort of peace that existed between the Treaty of Versailles and the outbreak of WWII — a crippling arrangement that overwhelmingly favored one side over the other. Germany eventually had no choice but to rebel.

Similarly, by failing to protect anyone but their cloistered and wealthy friends, the elites of both current US political parties has laid the fuel for the fire that now burns.

Bernie Sanders’ post-election statement had this to say about the economics that drove the result:

 "Donald Trump tapped into the anger of a declining middle class that is sick and tired of establishment economics, establishment politics and the establishment media. People are tired of working longer hours for lower wages, of seeing decent paying jobs go to China and other low-wage countries, of billionaires not paying any federal income taxes and of not being able to afford a college education for their kids — all while the very rich become much richer.”

Bernie would have easily bested Trump in my opinion. It was a huge twin set of mistakes by the DNC to first hamper his primary efforts, and then fail to at least make him Clinton's running mate. 

Redistribution of money and power seem to happen peacefully only rarely among humans and virtually never in America.  Labor rights?  Fought and died over.  Women’s right to vote?  Fought and died over.  Environmental rights?  Brought kicking and screaming across the moats.  Racial rights?  Only partially achieved after the greatest amount of violence and bloodshed of all these causes.

Can we do better? Absolutely, in theory.  But so far we don’t a lot of better examples to point to inside the US.

So this battle is just getting started and will far outlive Trump and everybody reading this. Decades of ill-advised growth and financial squandering cannot be wished away — we, and our children (and likely our grandchildren, too), will be cleaning up the messes of our profligacy for a long time.

And just as one can easily peer at Charles Hughes Smith's charts and conclude that eventually a rebellion of sorts is inevitable, there’s an even more startling chart you need to see. If you can truly internalize it, you'll understand why the new era of status quo rejection is just getting underway.

Promises That Can’t Be Kept

There's a lot of data I can provide here, but I’ll go with a single — but critically important — chart from Ray Dalio’s Bridgewater Associates, one of the largest money management firms out there.

I’m sorry that you have to squint a little to see this, but here’s all you need to know: when you add up both the debts and the liabilities of the US, those are more than 1,000% of current GDP:

(Source)

One thousand one hundred percent?!?!?  As in eleven times GDP??  You might as well say eleventy gajillion because there’s no sense in any of these numbers.

Yep.  No country has ever dug out from under such a load. None have even come close.  The “prediction,” which is so simple it’s not really a prediction at all, that flows from the above chart is this: Somebody is going to have to eat the losses.

Massive, fabulously enormous losses. 

Trillions and trillions of losses in current dollars. Even if the economic elites don’t try to force all of those losses on the ‘little people’, the pain is still going to be so extraordinary that serious political and social crises will erupt.

You can count on it.

You can already see that larger future predicament playing out painfully around us. One example is how pensions are cutting back benefits, lowering expectations, demanding higher funding payments by taxpayers, and otherwise displaying signs of distress.

And this is with equity markets perched at all-time highs (at the moment of this writing, the Dow is at a new record).

So our recent decades of economic peace must end, given the thousand percent indebtedness predicament revealed by the chart above.

We got into that thousand percent predicament the exact same way the DNC lost to Trump: by failing to address things that plainly needed to be dealt with.  We proved to ourselves, yet again, that pretending something uncomfortable doesn’t exist doesn’t make it go away.

“Well, we might just grow out from under those debts and obligations” some might be tempted to say. My response is to ask you to go back and look at that chart again and note that it has grown from 700% to 1,100% since 2001.  If GDP had been growing at the same pace, the ratio value wouldn't have budged. It would have remained at 700%.

But it grew to 1,100%, which means the debts and obligations were growing much faster than GDP.

So for the past 15 years the “grow out of it” mantra — which has been echoed ad nauseum — has been a complete train wreck of a failure.  How many more years before we can all just admit the obvious?

Just as both the RNC and DNC opted to ignore the extreme damage their policies had been inflicting on the upper, middle and lower classes, sparing only the very tippy-top elites (but hand-feeding those elites peeled grapes it should be noted, because their lot improved wildly over the past decades), everybody in power has been steadfastly ignoring our massive debt and liability problems, too.

Those are going to shape the future, and that future is going to be plenty painful. The longer we wait, the more painful it will be. This has been our steady message at Peak Prosperity for a very long time, and we are actually hopeful that now, finally, we can speak about the unspeakable to those who had no willing ear for it just a short week ago.

Conclusion

The political upheaval of Donald Trump is best understood through the lens of economic erosion suffered by the vast majority of people.  If a democracy is measured in how well it serves the interests of the majority, the United States is not a democracy at all.

Of course, nearly everyone already knows this. But it's been all but unspeakable in polite circles to say so.

Now, it is finally becoming okay to voice.

Which is, admittedly, a breath of fresh air for us at Peak Prosperity.  Because not only are massive, obvious economic issues going to unavoidably visit the US in the not-too-distant future, but they'll be doing so at a time when many critical resources will be in decline.

Chief among those? Oil, of course.

To skirt the impact of a future oil supply crunch, we'll need an incredible effort of joined forces and strict prioritization to assure that whatever transition we can effect will be a smooth as possible.  Even then, we’ll be lucky to evade painful disruption.

But if we don't begin to view our future with clear eyes and a united sense of what the predicaments are, if we instead turn to another version of four more years of preservation of the status quo, then we will face a future of disruption so painful it will make the worst of post-election Wednesday for the most ardent liberal seem like a minor inconvenience (by comparison, I mean, of course). 

It will take an enormous amount of effort simply to stem the tide of economic erosion that now besets the land.  And that’s just as true for the US as it is for Japan, Europe and the UK.  The same forces are at play in all of these centers.

It will take another massive bowlful of effort to begin to address the debts and liabilities issues.  And yet another cauldron of effort to revamp our energy infrastructure in parallel with all the other challenges.  Put it all together and you can begin to understand why, if we're going to deplore something from the recent election, it should be the running of an intentionally divisive set of campaigns that have driven as large a wedge between people in the US as has existed in a very long time.

We need to be working together on the common predicaments that care not if we are liberal or conservative, religious or not, male or female, or which race or sexual persuasion best applies to us. Declining global net energy per capita. Our massive fiscal over-indebtedness. The collapse of too many ecosystems we depend on for food and drinkable water. The list is sadly long…

It’s not just time to heal; it’s imperative that we do. So that we stand united to deal with these predicaments as they arrive in full force.

There’s really not a moment to spare.

And for those looking to get a jump on what's coming, we need to better understand the implications of what just happened this week. The Trump upset has changed all of the probabilities that we track.

I've been keeping a running update of the developing situation in Part 2: OK, Here's What We Think Is In Store After Trump's Win. We'll be continuing to update this important assessment as new information filters in over the next few days.

Click here to access Part 2 (free executive summary, enrollment required for full access)

~ Chris Martenson

Related content
» More

147 Comments

  • Sat, Nov 12, 2016 - 3:13am

    #1

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Thank you

    Best article yet.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sat, Nov 12, 2016 - 3:16am

    #2

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    Pies Video

    I offered up Pie's video to Australia's ABC for their amusement and gratification  and was told this morning that they prefer cultured comments, not rants. They prefer style over substance. 

    The ABC is part of our hectoring elite. Fortunately Australians have a low tolerance for that sort of thing.

    http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sat, Nov 12, 2016 - 5:41am

    #3
    Uncletommy

    Uncletommy

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: May 03 2014

    Posts: 521

    Don't forget to breathe, Chris.

    Well done! 

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sat, Nov 12, 2016 - 6:06am

    #4

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    A message that resonates

    https://youtu.be/pfN7RPuCgos

    PS: Don't trust these MSM snakes any further than you can throw them.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sat, Nov 12, 2016 - 7:38am

    #5

    sand_puppy

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 1876

    Purple Revolution

    I think I have it.   And two authors just said the same thing.

    Wayne Madsen:   The Clintons and Soros Launch America's Purple Revolution

    Defeated Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Rodham Clinton is not about to «go quietly into that good night». On the morning after her surprising and unanticipated defeat at the hands of Republican Party upstart Donald Trump, Mrs. Clinton and her husband, former President Bill Clinton, entered the ball room of the art-deco New Yorker hotel in midtown Manhattan and were both adorned in purple attire. The press immediately noticed the color and asked what it represented. Clinton spokespeople claimed it was to represent the coming together of Democratic «Blue America» and Republican «Red America» into a united purple blend. This statement was a complete ruse as is known by citizens of countries targeted in the past by the vile political operations of international hedge fund tycoon George Soros

    The Clintons, who both have received millions of dollars in campaign contributions and Clinton Foundation donations from Soros, were, in fact, helping to launch Soros’s «Purple Revolution» in America. The Purple Revolution will resist all efforts by the Trump administration to push back against the globalist policies of the Clintons and soon-to-be ex-President Barack Obama. The Purple Revolution will also seek to make the Trump administration a short one through Soros-style street protests and political disruption.

    Paul Craig Roberts this morning (11/12/2016)

    The Anti-Trump Protesters Are Tools of the Oligarchy

    «Reform always provokes rage on the part of those who profit by the old order». Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr., The Crisis of the Old Order

    Who are the anti-Trump protesters besmirching the name of progressives by pretending to be progressives and by refusing to accept the outcome of the presidential election? They look like, and are acting worse than, the «white trash» that they are denouncing.

    I think I know who they are. They are thugs for hire and are paid by the Oligarchy to delegitimize Trump’s presidency in the way that Washington and the German Marshall Fund paid students in Kiev to protest the democratically elected Ukrainian government in order to prepare the way for a coup.

    From Breitbart News   [Editor's Note: MoveOn.org has received significant funding from George Soros in the past. ]

    MoveOn.org released the following press release Wednesday afternoon:

    Americans to Come Together in Hundreds Peaceful Gatherings of Solidarity, Resistance, and Resolve Following Election Results

    Hundreds of Americans, dozens of organizations to gather peacefully outside the White House and in cities and towns nationwide to take a continued stand against misogyny, racism, Islamophobia, and xenophobia.

    The gatherings – organized by MoveOn.org and allies – will affirm a continued rejection of Donald Trump’s bigotry, xenophobia, Islamophobia, and misogyny and demonstrate our resolve to fight together for the America we still believe is possible.

    Within two hours of the call-to-action, MoveOn members had created more than 200 gatherings nationwide, with the number continuing to grow on Wednesday afternoon.

    WHEN / WHERE: Find local gatherings here. Major gatherings include in New York City’s Columbus Circle and outside the White House in Washington, DC.

    Black Lives Matter (BLM) cashes in with $100 million from liberal foundations.

    For all its talk of being a street uprising, Black Lives Matter is increasingly awash in cash, raking in pledges of more than $100 million from liberal foundations and others eager to contribute to what has become the grant-making cause du jour.

    The Ford Foundation and Borealis Philanthropy recently announced the formation of the Black-Led Movement Fund [BLMF], a six-year pooled donor campaign aimed at raising $100 million for the Movement for Black Lives coalition.

    That funding comes in addition to more than $33 million in grants to the Black Lives Matter movement from top Democratic Party donor George Soros through his Open Society Foundations, as well as grant-making from the Center for American Progress.

    George Soros, Black Lives Matter and Manufactured Civil Unrest

    …leaked documents from George Soros’ Open Society Foundation show that the organization’s goal behind funding the Black Lives Matter movement is ultimately to federalize America’s police forces.

    The document is aptly called, “Police Reform: How to Take Advantage of the Crisis of the Moment and Drive Long-Term Institutional Change in Police-Community Practice.” Breitbart reported:

    The document states that the Foundations’ U.S. Programs (USP) was seeking to use “this moment” – meaning the so-called crisis in policing following high profile shootings and charges of racism – to “create a national movement” for police reform.

     

    Police in Ferguson and Charlotte reported than many of the "protesters" arrested in those cities were brought in from out of state to feed the fires. 

    The New American recently reported, Ken Zimmerman, the director of U.S. programs at Soros’s Open Society Foundations (OSF), denied last year that Soros had funded BLM, saying it was just a rumor.  That was before hackers with DCLeaks.com published OSF documents showing that the Soros group had already given at least $650,000 directly to BLM.

    ———————————————–

    My summary:  The discontent and fear among GREEN, people of color and LBGT Community is REAL.  Very real and very deeply felt.  I am not at all belittling the reality of the anguish.  

    And this anguish is to be the fuel to be used to tear the social fabric, similar to what was done in the Ukraine.

    I guess the division is between GREEN on one side, and ORANGE and BLUE on the other.

     

     

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sat, Nov 12, 2016 - 8:16am

    #6

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Re: Green

    [quote]My summary:  The discontent and fear among GREEN, people of color and LBGT Community is REAL.  Very real and very deeply felt.  I am not at all belittling the reality of the anguish.  

    And this anguish is to be the fuel to be used to tear the social fabric, similar to what was done in the Ukraine.

    I guess the division is between GREEN on one side, and ORANGE and BLUE on the other.[/quote]

    GREEN being manipulated, shifted, into MGM (Mean Green Meme)?

    If so, can ORANGE and/or BLUE be manipulated in a similar fashion?

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sat, Nov 12, 2016 - 11:11am

    #7
    Edwardelinski

    Edwardelinski

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Dec 23 2012

    Posts: 321

    A Million Women March on D.C

    The ladies have begun to mobilize.Although in early stages,they plan to demonstrate on Jan 21 opposing alot of what Trump stands for.There are problems right now with the national facebook page but 20 individual states have set them up.The Times,Huff Post,Elle among others have spread the word.The  grassroots efforts is on…

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sat, Nov 12, 2016 - 1:33pm

    Reply to #7
    Luke Moffat

    Luke Moffat

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 25 2014

    Posts: 365

    A Green Revolution?

    Perhaps they can recycle the placards they used last time to protest Bill Clinton's misogyny involving a certain Monica Lewinsky on state time. Just strike a line through Bill's name and that way we don't have to cut down any more trees. Just seeing the opportunity in a crisis…

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sat, Nov 12, 2016 - 2:59pm

    #8
    Uncletommy

    Uncletommy

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: May 03 2014

    Posts: 521

    History repeating?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZsO348BOW0

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sat, Nov 12, 2016 - 3:14pm

    #9

    lambertad

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 31 2013

    Posts: 178

    opposing a lot of what Trump stands for

    Care to offer some insights into what they may marching against as "opposing alot (sic) of what Trump stands for " doesn't offer much insight that I can wrap my head around.

    I suppose Trump stands for less pay for women for equal work? This theory has been debunked so many times it's not even funny. Here's one article from the Foundation for Economic Education that lays that out. Here's another article from the WSJ on same topic. 

    What other issues are important to women that they would be marching against? They are arguably more successful early in their career than men, attend college and earn degrees in greater numbers than men, have good paying jobs that is equal or exceeds that of men, so I'm not sure. Possibly Obamacare? That law that sees huge increases year after year from 20-75% in some areas (Minnesota for one), that has reduced health insurance competition and a full 1/3 of people only have 1 choice and 55% only have "2 or fewer" options on the exchange (BTW, that 1/3 is up from 4% in 2016, quite the death spiral isn't it?). Like Chris says, if you want to know how the law works out for the insurance companies look at their stock price, if you want to see how it works out for the man on the street, well, we already know he is struggling. So the women will possibly be marching to keep funding huge salaries for insurance company CEOs and corporate profits while keeping the little man down? That doesn't sound like a liberal policy to me. A liberal policy would be to force hospitals to publish the cost of each and every procedure and then someone would create an app for who's the cheapest and who provides the best care as that is already published. Then you could actually shop for healthcare and reduce the middle man (insurance companies) and then maybe you could say, hey, I can afford a HDHP and pay out of pocket for this stuff instead of paying $300/mo for insurance that has a 5,000 deductible that you never hit each year anyway. I'm a big fan of HDHP, as they allow premium pass through where you can pocket in your HSA 1/2 of your monthly premium in some cases and your deductible just isn't that high ($3,000 in my case with 0 coverage by insurance for the first 3,000 and then they cover 80% over that and everything over 10,000 up to 1 million). 

    It's funny to me that people decide to protest President Trump, yet have nothing bad to say about former President Clinton who used his power to coerce an intern into performing oral sex on him, has more than 10 women who claimed he either sexually assaulted/harassed or raped them, and we have flight logs that show he has flown on the plane of a convicted pedophile multiple times without his Secret Security escort and with soft core porn stars and other suspicious sounding aliases on board the same flight. Here's that article with flight logs.

    Look, I don't support everything Trump says, but a lot of the divisiveness in this country is specifically generated by the MSM looking to drive a wedge between groups of people. Mindlessly demonstrating without knowing what you are demonstrating against or for just goes to show the thought control the elites still maintain over a certain portion of the country. The only justification I can see at this point in time for protesting Trump is his policy on immigration and his intent on deporting large numbers of illegal immigrants. That's just stupid and it's a waste of money and will create more of a police state where anyone who looks "latino" will be targeted. 

    I know I won't be protesting, I enjoy watching the stick through the spokes effect that Trump is having the elites. I just hope he doesn't give them a helmet before they fly over the handlebars. 

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sat, Nov 12, 2016 - 3:23pm

    Reply to #4

    lambertad

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 31 2013

    Posts: 178

    Thanks for sharing this

    First the interviewers eyes shifted away as soon as Moore said these people aren't racist and I think he was waiting for someone from the panel to chime in and interrupt him.

    Then when MM goes to the economic argument about BASIC FOOD like cereals the interviewer looks away again and someone interrupts Mr. Moore (Damn it, we just can't have our guests coming on here and proposing plausible ideas for why those white rural hillbillies aren't racist and sexist and that's why we lost). We're not talking foie gras, we're talking basic food. I don't like MM as I feel his movies are basically propaganda, but when anyone talks common sense stuff I'm willing to listen. Thanks for sharing, this is classic leftist media. 

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sat, Nov 12, 2016 - 3:28pm

    #10

    LesPhelps

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 30 2009

    Posts: 472

    A story that needs to get out

    One of the reasons being used to justify the protests and violence is that Hillary won the popular vote.

    WRONG.

    In order for a vote to be legitimate, the voter must be a US Citizen.  Most states are not adequately verifying citizenship when registering voters.

    Hillary's votes:  60,467,601
    Trump's votes:  60,072,551
    Difference:             425,050

    Number of non US Citizens residing in the US: 24,800,000
    Est % who voted (illegally) 5% or 1,240,000
    Est % who voted democratic 85% or 1,054,000
    15% equals 186,000
    Net Democratic gain equals 868,000

    Estimated legitimate popular vote:

    Hillary's estimated legitimate votes: 59,413,601
    Trump's estimated legitimate votes: 59,886,551
    Difference:                                             472,950

    Trump won the legitimate popular vote!

    I obviously don't have accurate numbers to do the above calculations.  The numbers above were rounded down examples from the best sources I could find.

    However, I am convinced they are either conservative or in the ball park of reality.

    Unless honesty starts becoming a MSM staple, we are in for more of the same. 

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sat, Nov 12, 2016 - 3:33pm

    Reply to #9
    MarkM

    MarkM

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jul 22 2008

    Posts: 349

    lambertadYou took the words

    lambertad
    You took the words right out of my mouth. Nobody “marched” when the sitting president was committing the actual deed right in the white house rather than just talking trash about it to another guy.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sat, Nov 12, 2016 - 3:34pm

    #11
    treebeard

    treebeard

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 18 2010

    Posts: 551

    Republican libretarian

    That's right, HRC is a republican libertarian.  The left does not exist any more, it hasn't for years and years. Why "democrats", who consider themselves "liberal" would even think of supporting someone like HRC is really beyond my belief.  That was the jaw dropping unbelievable thing about this past election, not that DT won, but that people actual thought that there was any difference between the two, as I ranted on and on about.

    That was the goal.  Take the things that don't matter, in other words the things that have no impact on the financial and social order, make everything about that.  And further, take these inconsequential things and make the election about that, in such a way as to divide people against each other and their own interests.  This was a divisive election?  What serious policy issues were really even talked about.

    Black live matter?  Hell yes, of course.  But how in the world did TPTB get this whole conflated with some evil scheme by George Soros.  Years of slavery, lynching, Jim Crow, racism, none of it real of course, just a scheme to piss off poor whites. The vast middle class has been getting the short end of the stick for years, African Americans have been getting beaten with it.  This is a reason for solidarity, its the same damn crappy stick!  Its the same vicious predatory rapacious system screwing everybody.  WTF!

    HRC is a libertarian, oh yes.  You think libertarianism and you think, small government, personal freedom, low taxes.  Your corporate overlord owners are cackling with glee.  The one thing they are afraid of is an organized population, that is it. If you organize outside governmental structures you're a terrorist, inside government, your a liberal. Either way, they need to create the idea that organizing collectively is off the table. And we are accommodating them in spades.

    The insurance industry, pharmaceutical industry write health care legislation and gave it to their corporate task masters to ram to Americas throat, and what do they call it – Obama Care.  Miss-direction at its very finest.  Government did this to you, we didn't have anything to do with this.  Abandon your government, don't worry, we'll manage it very well for you.  And we'll give you a wonderful group of candidates to vote for every two years, oh yes there will be real differences between them.  Spend all your time debating and analyzing that. Please, please don't think about anything else.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sat, Nov 12, 2016 - 4:11pm

    #12

    Michael_Rudmin

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 25 2014

    Posts: 847

    So now, is Trump headed to Disneyland

    Now that Trump has clinched the presidency and completely defeated the neocons, what are his first moves now?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blMxB09L5q0

    Just sayin', there's still the electoral college.  I've never known the neocons to get up in the middle of a game.

     

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sat, Nov 12, 2016 - 4:50pm

    Reply to #5

    pinecarr

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 13 2008

    Posts: 1085

    More on Soros from Paul Craig Roberts...

    From PCR's website, "Has George Soros Committed Treason?", http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/11/12/has-george-soros-committed-treason/

    Has George Soros Committed Treason?

    “His only legitimacy is his wallet.”

    https://www.rt.com/usa/366579-soros-orgs-driving-trump-protests/

    The press prostitutes continue to lie to us. They pretend that the anti-Trump protests are real spontaneous events although the prostitutes know that the “protests” are orchestrated by George Soros and front groups for the Oligarchy such as change.org and other fake progressive groups funded by the oligarchs.

    Soros, change.org and various progressive and leftwing fronts for the oligarchs pretend to be for democracy, but they are acting in behalf of Oligarchy. We are witnessing a direct attack on American democracy. These protesters are the hired mercenary enemy of the American people.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sat, Nov 12, 2016 - 5:33pm

    #13

    mememonkey

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Nov 01 2009

    Posts: 100

    Where is Obama?

    I suspect that the irony of  the protesters  simultaneously  proclaiming Love trumps hate! and assassinate Trump while burning him in effigy  and calling for violent revolution is lost on the average low information protester.  

    Given the magnitude of violence and looting in the wake of the election it would seem like the president has a duty to calm people down and work towards healing the divide.

    Apart from his pro forma comments post election and his de rigeuer meeting with trump   It is a moral imperative that he use his "bully" pulpit  to chill out the cry bullies that are burning, looting and  in some cases beating people in the streets.    

    His radio silence on that speaks volumes about his character, integrity and agenda.

    Perhaps  some of the Washington elites who have such great back door communication with the media could send a memo to their lap dogs to tone down  the stoking fears and legitimizing faux moral outrage, that have summoned and empowered a  veritable army of useful idiots

    I fully expect things will escalate and by the time the inauguration comes we will have national guard and martial law in the cities.

    mememonkey

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sat, Nov 12, 2016 - 6:53pm

    #14

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Not buying into the "new" narrative

    My default position is that we are being played once again, that the Neocons and their associated ilk have doubled down, and that all is not as it seems.

    LogansRun wrote:

    IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO'S ELECTED!  So, stop sniveling (HRC Lovers/voters) or pumping your fists (DT Lovers/voters).  Get over it.

    That being said I hope we're both wrong, and I reserve the right to change my opinion given facts as they emerge.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sat, Nov 12, 2016 - 8:16pm

    #15

    sand_puppy

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 1876

    Good will to all

    Just want to let all my women friends, black friends and family, gay and lesbian friends and family, Jewish friends and family, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist and atheist family and friends that I love them and 100% support them. Me, my wife and all of us, care for you and support you all without any hesitation. This core attitude is strong and constant, not dependent on ANY political development.

    With all the talk about Neocons here on PP, I want to especially, especially convey my good will to my Jewish friends and Jewish PP members.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sat, Nov 12, 2016 - 8:31pm

    #16

    Locksmithuk

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Dec 19 2011

    Posts: 94

    Candidate Irrelevance

    Two weeks ago many on here were hoping Clinton wouldn't win. Wish granted. Now we're dissecting the resultant set of circumstances of that desired outcome. Why?
     
    If you subscribe to the general theory – as many have done here, including I – that the Prez is selected and not elected, then the amount of electronic real estate & energy now devoted on these pages to Trump, rigging, and voter protests is largely irrelevant. Under that theory the course of future events was already charted many months ago, and we are now at the start of that future.
     
    Instead, I ask myself: why was Trump selected by that powerful invisible engine to be the juggernaut's driver? He has no political experience, a big mouth… but of course he has nothing to lose. He's a perfect scapegoat. Or to some he's a change agent with fresh ideas. Or maybe both. Me, I suspect he will in reality have few executive powers. Everything will be steered from the back seat.
     
    I don't pretend in the slightest to know what the elites are up to. I cannot peel back the many layers which surely underpin Trump's selection. However, I – like Chris – sense a massive change coming, and we aren't even at the start yet. The change could be good. But what are those chances, given the endlessly climbing tower of debt while we hurtled faster towards a mathematically-certain brick wall of finite growth? Anything which could've benefited the 95% (i.e. the likes of us) would've happened already. We're now looking at the alternative. 
     
    Many of us here have suffered preparedness fatigue for 3,4, maybe 7 years while waiting – and probably hoping – for the house of cards to collapse and the broom to be swept through. Now we may well have got what we wanted. Are you prepared?
     

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sat, Nov 12, 2016 - 8:33pm

    #17

    Snydeman

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 06 2013

    Posts: 486

    I dunno

    On Facebook, and somewhat on here, I see a lot of pro-Trump celebrating, as if he is going to usher in a new age, solve our problems, and actually hand things back to the little people. Guys and gals, he's a billionaire who was born into money. He belongs to the very same class of people who have been screwing us over for decades, AND he elevated racism, misogyny and bigotry to new heights of acceptability in public discourse. Clinton was hardly better, of course, but have you seen his cabinet choices? He's no more going to represent "middle America" than Hillary could represent the working classes, so I stand by my original pre-election prediction: With Hillary, we're f**ked, and with Trump we're screwed. Out with the old, in with the old.

     

    Don't put away your Vaseline so soon, because this pain-train is just leaving the station.

     

    When I see the amount of name-calling, labeling, and vitriol on my Facebook feed between and among my liberal friends/family and my conservative ones, I can't help but tip my cap to the elite…because here they have us going at each other again, while they laugh all the way to the bank and their bunkers, saying "You little people can eat cake."

     

    -S

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sat, Nov 12, 2016 - 9:29pm

    #18

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    The moral angle.

    Imagine a different history where Hillary won and the Trumpsters rioted.

    What would the State's reaction have been?

    There is absolutely no moral imperative to treat your opponent any better than he treats you.

    Philosopher Stephan Molyneux discusses this issue.

    http://www.fdrpodcasts.com/#/3494/antidonald-trump-protests-and-riots-true-news

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sat, Nov 12, 2016 - 11:14pm

    #19

    New_Life

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 18 2011

    Posts: 185

    Music for the masses?

    QE for the forgotten people?
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevekeen/2016/11/09/to-make-america-great-again-write-off-the-private-debt/#6a2a498020a3

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sat, Nov 12, 2016 - 11:19pm

    #20

    Phaedrus the younger

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 21 2013

    Posts: 12

    So did FDR..

    he came from the upper class in a perilous time not unlike this one.  Delivered the New Deal. 

    Time will tell..

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sat, Nov 12, 2016 - 11:32pm

    #21
    Hugh Acland

    Hugh Acland

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 07 2008

    Posts: 2

    Great article Chris.. Just

    Great article Chris.. Just FYI, Jonathan Pie is actually just a character "played" by the British actor Tom Walker..but Jonathan/Tom absolutely nails it 100%.

    Hugh

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sat, Nov 12, 2016 - 11:48pm

    Reply to #11
    reflector

    reflector

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 20 2011

    Posts: 252

    RE: Republican libretarian

    treebeard,

    your post was irresponsible and anti-factual and i feel i have to respond.

    HRC is not by even the wildest stretch of the imagination, a libertarian.

    she does not represent any libertarian values, and isn't supported by any libertarians that i know of.

    go to any libertarian oriented website, such as liberty.me, and have a look at what people were saying before the election. libertarians supported johnson, or trump. HRC had a support of zero, i literally don't recall a single libertarian supporting HRC.

    yes, libertarian values include small government, low taxes, personal freedom (and i would add to that: respect for the constitution and rule of law). HRC embodies none of those.

    HRC is a neocon, not a libertarian.

    if you want to argue that HRC favors small government, low taxes, personal freedom, and respect for the rule of law, then by all means go ahead and make a case for it, but you didn't, and you won't be able to, because that's not reality.

    i don't know what compelled you to write such a thing. perhaps you don't like libertarians, and that's fine. but to attempt to besmirch them by saying HRC is one of them is irresponsible, and simply not truthful.

    stick to the facts, please.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sun, Nov 13, 2016 - 12:13am

    #22

    Mark Cochrane

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: May 24 2011

    Posts: 1189

    50:50

    Isn't it surprising how close the popular vote is in our elections year after year? The electoral college may be a landslide but the popular vote is generally fairly close. However, this makes 5 of the last 7 elections when neither candidate even reached 50% of the popular vote. We haven't had a 60% turnout of voters since 1968 or a 70% turnout since 1900. There must be some serious gains in disaffecting 40-50% of the voters.

    Divide and Rule isn't just for colonies, it is also effective at controlling populations at home. Unless there is an existential threat to the nation (maybe war with Russia?) there is no real desire to unite the country's population. If we voted based on our economic wellbeing then a candidate could theoretically unite 95% (or any other percent below 99.9%) by proposing more equitable allotment of the nation's GDP, as occurred pre 1970, much to the detriment of 'the elite'. Social issues are effective at dividing us though, so many of us vote against our own economic interests. In principle, this would be fine, since not all of us are solely driven by our personal bottom lines. What boggles the mind though is that we continue to vote for 'parties' that promise us many things but never deliver. Delivering is not important for them though since having the dispute to continually motivate us is what is key.

    So, in sum, 40-50% of us can't be motivated with 'hot-button' topics and the rest of us have the memory spans of goldfish swimming around a bowl every four years to the perception of having a new experience.

    Homo sapiens sapiens

     

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sun, Nov 13, 2016 - 12:54am

    #23

    LesPhelps

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 30 2009

    Posts: 472

    The Message On Election Day

    Despite the MSM rhetoric, I don't for a second believe that the choice was between misogamy, sexism, bigotry, and homophobia vs diversity and inclusion.  To me that was yet another tool being used to influence voters.

    Whatever other themes were playing on Election Day, I believe a large portion of the message delivered was NOT HILLARY.  The DNC is largely to blame for that, not the voters who couldn't abide the DNC candidate.

    Along the same lines, wanting reasonable control over immigration does not imply racism.  Even as we speak, Europe is showing us that uncontrolled immigration has a price.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sun, Nov 13, 2016 - 1:44am

    #24

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    Population Pressure

    Here is what is the immigration issue is about.

    le Grange is looking better and better.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sun, Nov 13, 2016 - 2:26am

    #25
    treebeard

    treebeard

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 18 2010

    Posts: 551

    I'm confused

    Here is the libertarian platform:

    Governments throughout history have regularly operated on the opposite principle, that the State has the right to dispose of the lives of individuals and the fruits of their labor. Even within the United States, all political parties other than our own grant to government the right to regulate the lives of individuals and seize the fruits of their labor without their consent.

    We, on the contrary, deny the right of any government to do these things, and hold that where governments exist, they must not violate the rights of any individual: namely, (1) the right to life—accordingly we support the prohibition of the initiation of physical force against others; (2) the right to liberty of speech and action—accordingly we oppose all attempts by government to abridge the freedom of speech and press, as well as government censorship in any form; and (3) the right to property—accordingly we oppose all government interference with private property, such as confiscation, nationalization, and eminent domain, and support the prohibition of robbery, trespass, fraud, and misrepresentation.

    Since governments, when instituted, must not violate individual rights, we oppose all interference by government in the areas of voluntary and contractual relations among individuals. People should not be forced to sacrifice their lives and property for the benefit of others. They should be left free by government to deal with one another as free traders; and the resultant economic system, the only one compatible with the protection of individual rights, is the free market.

     

    HRC is bent on the removal of government influence on the free markets, as well as every other aspect of civic life. The "trade" deals explicit purpose is (NAFTA, TPP, etc) is to circumvent all government influence on international trade and national laws, leaving them impotent.  Allowing multinational corps (an entity in the free market acting as a free trader) to sue national governments for any infringement on their ability to make a profit, whether that cause be from labor laws, environmental laws, health and welfare laws, food safety laws, etc.

    Prison industrial complex, removal of government control in all aspects of that, so that prison system can act in the free market of the criminal just system in order to pursue their interests as a free trader.

    Health care system, remove the government of all controls so that big pharma, insurance giants, medical industry can act as free trader in the free market without the fear of government regulation.

    Wall Street and the Banking System, eliminate government influence and regulation so the private "federal" reserve banking system can act in the free market to pursue its interests as a free trader.

    Military industrial complex, eliminate government influence there as well.  So that military armament sales and wars can be based on a free market entity pursuing their interests as a free trader.  There is no draft, so conscripts are there of their own free will, acting as free agents in a free market as well so no problem there right?

    What vestiges of government remain are simply instruments that free market entities use to pursue market share nationally and on the global stage and of course give the illusion that citizens have a say in national affairs.  If you were to ask HRC and her cronies on wall street if they favored the elimination of Government all together, I'm sure the answer would be a resounding YES!  Of course they would never say that, as she has advised already, you need to have a separate private and public persona.

    Government is already dead, private banking interests and multinational corps already rule the world.  So what are we supposed to do now, burry the dead copses of government.  Hate to turn a phrase, but stand around and kick a dead horse? I'm sure this Neoliberal disaster is not what libertarians had mind. Enlighten as to how we are supposed to from here to what libertarians have in mind.

    Am I being too negative here?

     

     

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sun, Nov 13, 2016 - 12:52pm

    #26

    Bankers Slave

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jul 26 2012

    Posts: 513

    This from the Corbett report

    https://steemit.com/trump/@corbettreport/meet-team-trump

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sun, Nov 13, 2016 - 2:15pm

    Reply to #26
    treebeard

    treebeard

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 18 2010

    Posts: 551

    Surprise, surprise!

    If anyone is surprised by this, I have land in the Florida everglades I want to sell you.  Thanks for the link Bankers Slave.  I'm not sure that 46% of the population staying home is exactly good news.  If people showed up, it would force the hand, and fraud would be out in the open, so perhaps something would start to happen.  Who knows.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sun, Nov 13, 2016 - 6:04pm

    #27

    newsbuoy

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Dec 10 2013

    Posts: 95

    We are the people that survive...

    https://youtu.be/KTW3ABcSZ88

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sun, Nov 13, 2016 - 6:14pm

    #28

    newsbuoy

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Dec 10 2013

    Posts: 95

    Sicherheitsdienst by any other name is still Sicherheitsdienst

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicherheitsdienst

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sun, Nov 13, 2016 - 8:24pm

    Reply to #2

    Locksmithuk

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Dec 19 2011

    Posts: 94

    Arthur Robey wrote:I offered

    [quote=Arthur Robey]

    I offered up Pie's video to Australia's ABC for their amusement and gratification  and was told this morning that they prefer cultured comments, not rants. They prefer style over substance. 

    The ABC is part of our hectoring elite. Fortunately Australians have a low tolerance for that sort of thing.

    http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/

    [/quote]

     

    Arthur, Australia's ABC wouldn't recognise style even if it was walked all over by a 100 pairs of Jimmy Choos.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sun, Nov 13, 2016 - 8:43pm

    Reply to #17

    Oliveoilguy

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 29 2012

    Posts: 520

    Looks like a Rainbow to me

    [quote=Snydeman]

    On Facebook, and somewhat on here, I see a lot of pro-Trump celebrating, as if he is going to usher in a new age, solve our problems,

    [/quote]

    Actually off to a good start with Kellyanne Conway breaking the glass ceiling as campaign advisor, and Peter Theil (Gay) and Ben Carson (Black) on the transition team. Looks like a rainbow to me.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sun, Nov 13, 2016 - 10:50pm

    Reply to #17

    Snydeman

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 06 2013

    Posts: 486

    Oliveoilguy wrote:Snydeman

    [quote=Oliveoilguy]

    [quote=Snydeman]

    On Facebook, and somewhat on here, I see a lot of pro-Trump celebrating, as if he is going to usher in a new age, solve our problems,

    [/quote]

    Actually off to a good start with Kellyanne Conway breaking the glass ceiling as campaign advisor, and Peter Theil (Gay) and Ben Carson (Black) on the transition team. Looks like a rainbow to me.

    [/quote]

    Mkay, sure. Trump, the embracer of rainbow diversity. Yep.

     

    We'll see, won't we? I'm not going to hold my breath for that brave, new world and all.

    I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong if it comes to pass, though.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sun, Nov 13, 2016 - 10:54pm

    #29

    lambertad

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 31 2013

    Posts: 178

    Healthcare and "govt controls"

    Treebeard,

    I've got to disagree with you on this one. You said:

    "Health care system, remove the government of all controls so that big pharma, insurance giants, medical industry can act as free trader in the free market without the fear of government regulation."

    Do you suppose we currently have a free market in healthcare and that the government is doing a good job of managing the costs of healthcare? Is that your assessment of what is currently going on in the healthcare industry? Great, I didn't think so. 

    So lets look at the free market aspect of health. 

    1. Health insurance companies are a racket because they insure everything, not catastrophic events like auto insurance. Everyone knows they will have to go to the doctor, just like everyone knows they have to change their oil, but your car insurance doesn't cover your oil changes, does it? Likewise, your health insurance shouldn't cover simple doctors visits, it should largely be used for high cost events. If this were the case, people would be more sensitive to the costs incurred for going to doctor for stupid problems (I've had a sore throat for 3 days now, gee golly). Obamacare also dictates what must be covered by the policy which has added to the cost of the policies. 

    2. Health insurance tied to employment came out of the WWII as a result of price and wage controls. Thanks, government. If it wasn't for this, individuals would be able to pool together to get health insurance free of employer sponsored care. That isn't the case now due to the precedent that has been set and now individuals trying to purchase insurance are pretty much screwed. 

    3. Prices are not transparent. In a 'free market' prices would be transparent like this surgery center in Oklahoma. Why? Because the market would dictate such. Would you go to a hospital where an MRI costs $3,000 versus an imaging center down the street where it costs 600? No, no you wouldn't. The only reason people do this now is that the co-pay is the same whether the MRI is $3,000 or $600. Would you pay 500 bucks for an oil change when you can get one for $75? Not likely. Transparency decreases prices. 

    4. It takes 10 years and billions of dollars to get a drug through to market. These drug companies submit terabytes, you read that right, terabytes of data when getting their products approved. In one sense it's good because it is well researched, but that takes a long time and is expensive. This creates a barrier to entry. Why on earth is an Epi-pen $300-600? Auto injector + epinephrine = not expensive. Because the barrier to entry is so high no one can come along and disrupt the market in a short amount of time. Thanks, government. If we had lower barriers to entry and more of a free market, there would be actual competition. Another example is CroFab vs. Anavip. Anavip is produced in Mexico and is trying to get into the US market but CroFab producers have filed a lawsuit against them. CroFab is more expensive and less effective, government protectionism at it's finest. Competition lowers prices – look at your computer screen for proof. 

    5. Reductionism doesn't work in healthcare. The government boondoggle has completely screwed the pooch and has created a healthcare epidemic of obesity and diabetes by emphasizing simple carbohydrates over healthy fats (including saturated). If you need more evidence, read The Paleo Diet and Good Calories, Bad Calories. Subsidizing corn, soy, and wheat and not vegetables and fruit has partially led us to where we are (not libertarian). Likewise, suburbs and driving instead of urban density and walk able neighborhoods are not smart and leads to poorer health. Government subsidies for certain foods have led to poorer health, not libertarian.

    While the libertarian perspective is an improvement over the current situation in medicine, it's not perfect. If anyone has any interest in a better approach to medicine, I suggest you read this free e-book that covers the Singapore healthcare model. Here are the cliff notes:

    1. Govt provides guaranteed coverage for those in need, but it's not nice – no private rooms, no cushy hospital stays, but it's cheap and it works. 

    2. Different organizations work together in the government to create a market for healthy foods and walk able neighborhoods.

    3. Citizens have to save a certain portion of their paycheck for health insurance, but prices are transparent. If you go to the hospital you can choose a double room vs. private room if you want to save money on your stay. Likewise, insurance prices are transparent. Making people responsible for their healthcare dollars incentivizes savings (unlike medicare/medicaid). 

    4. That's all I remember from the book, but it's free and a lot of it would be an improvement over our current situation, which, is about as far from a libertarian 'free market' as you can get. 

     

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sun, Nov 13, 2016 - 11:06pm

    Reply to #17

    Oliveoilguy

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 29 2012

    Posts: 520

    Diversity

    Snyedman….I'm just stating facts….Do you dispute my statement?…….. "Actually off to a good start with Kellyanne Conway breaking the glass ceiling as campaign advisor, and Peter Theil (Gay) and Ben Carson (Black) on the transition team. Looks like a rainbow to me."………These are real people and he has really chosen them…..and they are really diverse. I'm sorry if the reality doesn't fit with your theory.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sun, Nov 13, 2016 - 11:07pm

    Reply to #17

    mememonkey

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Nov 01 2009

    Posts: 100

    Continued modulation

    [quote=Oliveoilguy]

    [quote=Snydeman]

    On Facebook, and somewhat on here, I see a lot of pro-Trump celebrating, as if he is going to usher in a new age, solve our problems,

    [/quote]

    Actually off to a good start with Kellyanne Conway breaking the glass ceiling as campaign advisor, and Peter Theil (Gay) and Ben Carson (Black) on the transition team. Looks like a rainbow to me.

    [/quote]

    I haven't seen that kind of pro trump celebrating here at PP.    My perception is that there has been a guarded sigh of relief that we won't have HRC attempting to put a no fly zone in Syria with the attendant risks of nuclear war with Russia that entailed,  as well as a realistic awareness that Trumps foreign policy will probably suck in many other ways including a good chance we'll end up with a different slate of neocons coming to power.

    I suspect that   Trump presidency will represent a mix of good and bad outcomes.     He has already effectively killed the TPP   That goes into the Win column for me. 

    There are  a bunch of other things on his list that would be great too if he manages them. Term limits and real checks on revolving door lobbying come to mind.

    He will also do and try some stuff that is completely boneheaded and indefensible for those of us who get the bigger picture. 

    What your not going to see is the histrionic  projections of the propaganda deluded protesters come true. i.e. a Hitler like  character rounding up gays and  minorities and sending them to concentration camps. 

    If  you've been paying attention to how he has strategically modulated his positions over time and relative to realities of the election cycle,  the most likely outcome is that he will continue to modulate his stance moving to the center. now that he has won.  You are already seeing that with his trial balloon on ACA that he might modify to keep pre existing conditions rather than scrap the whole thing.  Expect more revelations that will even piss of his base.

    Trump is an entertainer at heart and he knows how to work a crowd.  He is driven by his ego needing to be seen as HUGELY successful.  His crowd now includes the whole country and I expect he will position himself to succeed with that audience. 

    Success for a politician is all about reelection.  He has to deliver on key change elements for his base vis a vie cleaning the swamp  and he needs to assuage fears that he is what he has been painted as by the HRC campaign and their communication division, the MSM.

    mememonkey

     

     

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Mon, Nov 14, 2016 - 1:29am

    Reply to #17

    Snydeman

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 06 2013

    Posts: 486

    Oliveoilguy

    [quote=Oliveoilguy]

    Snyedman….I'm just stating facts….Do you dispute my statement?…….. "Actually off to a good start with Kellyanne Conway breaking the glass ceiling as campaign advisor, and Peter Theil (Gay) and Ben Carson (Black) on the transition team. Looks like a rainbow to me."………These are real people and he has really chosen them…..and they are really diverse. I'm sorry if the reality doesn't fit with your theory.

    [/quote]

     

    Having diverse people on your team doesn't mean you embrace true diversity, but you probably know this. Fact, he had a female, a homosexual, and a brown man on his team, and they are just "tokens" meant to look like he embraces diversity. of course, the second half of my statement is conjecture, as is yours. We can say he has these people on his team, but the actual reasons why are speculation. Given the types of statements he has made about "different" people during his career and campaign, I'll just say he has to work pretty hard to convince me that he actually cares about anyone else but himself. I'd love for him to prove me wrong on this. See, that's my opinion…just like my previous post was. Therefore it isn't something I need to "defend" either way. It simply is.

     

     

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Mon, Nov 14, 2016 - 1:34am

    Reply to #17

    Snydeman

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 06 2013

    Posts: 486

    Oliveoilguy

    [quote=Oliveoilguy]

    Snyedman….I'm just stating facts….Do you dispute my statement?…….. "Actually off to a good start with Kellyanne Conway breaking the glass ceiling as campaign advisor, and Peter Theil (Gay) and Ben Carson (Black) on the transition team. Looks like a rainbow to me."………These are real people and he has really chosen them…..and they are really diverse. I'm sorry if the reality doesn't fit with your theory.

    [/quote]

    By the by, that "glass ceiling" you refer to was broken back in '88 by Susan Estrich. I'm sorry if the reality doesn't fit with your theory.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Mon, Nov 14, 2016 - 1:54am

    Reply to #17

    Snydeman

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 06 2013

    Posts: 486

    Mememonkey

    Yeah, I agree with most of what you say. Hence why I said "somewhat seen here." I'll be the first to admit if I'm wrong…I just sense a snow-job and have serious doubts as to his embracing the principle of diversity. But, hey, that's my opinion.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Mon, Nov 14, 2016 - 1:59am

    #30

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    A lethal Ideal.

    the privilege of diversity

    Ha. Whites are "privileged with diversity", no one else. Sounds like a Cultural Marxist ideal to me.

    Do not assume that I as a Rhodesian, can be persuaded of its merits. We were "privileged with diversity" and then we were exterminated by others who laughed at our Naivete. 

    Cultural Marxism? What's Cultural Marxism?

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Mon, Nov 14, 2016 - 2:44am

    Reply to #17

    mememonkey

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Nov 01 2009

    Posts: 100

    Perceptions and Reality

    [quote=Snydeman]

    Yeah, I agree with most of what you say. Hence why I said "somewhat seen here." I'll be the first to admit if I'm wrong…I just sense a snow-job and have serious doubts as to his embracing the principle of diversity. But, hey, that's my opinion.

    [/quote]

    Time will tell of course,  I think you will be surprised, ( on this score anyway)  He already has and does embrace the principle of diversity,  I know that causes cognitive dissonance when measured against the perceptions that exist now after the campaign.  I come by this opinion after the painful work of dissecting his actual words relative to how they were selectively edited, framed  and presented for the MSM echo chamber.

    The clues are in his history as a cosmopolitian New Yorker.  He has a clear and unambiguous track record of tolerance and support of the gay community.  for example, even though he won't formally 'support gay marriage'  for political reasons he clearly supports it personally. 

    [quote=New York Times]

    Elton John and his longtime boyfriend, David Furnish, entered a civil partnership on Dec. 21, 2005, in England under a law the country had just enacted granting recognition to same-sex couples. The congratulations poured in as the two men appeared at a joyous ceremony at Windsor Guildhall, amid a crush of paparazzi. Donald J. Trump, who had known the couple for years, took to his blog to express his excitement.

    “I know both of them, and they get along wonderfully. It’s a marriage that’s going to work,” Mr. Trump wrote, adding: “I’m very happy for them. If two people dig each other, they dig each other.”

    [/quote]

    There is a similar track record of support for black and other minorities including Hispanics not withstanding his controversial statements about Mexicans(A nationality not a race) Illegals (a status) Criminals (a category)  

    I personaly  don't find nationalism an attractive quality.  But I do recognize that it is not equivalent to racism.  Even though many nationalists are also racist it is not a given. It is my contention that the record and background of Trump shows he is a Nationalist  not a Racist or a Homophobe. 

      To the extent that he displays prejudice it is against Islam. ( a religion)   He like so many people believe that Muslims were the driving force behind 911 and that informs his distrust.  Other than instituting extreme vetting, for immigrants that come from areas where radical Islam is a problem, ( Ironically those happen to be the same places we blew up on behalf of Israel of whom he is a Yuuge supporter ) he won't be in a position to significantly discriminate against Muslim communities here. 

    To the extent that discrimination happens it will be based on a 'false' security rational'  I believe the checks and balances in our system still will provide a measure of restraint there.  This is to my mind the most realistic area that abuses could occur.

    DT has made some significant promises to inner city blacks and Latinos to focus on jobs revitalization.

    I think you are going to see him really make a visible and tangible effort there.  He has staked his ego based reputation on it.

      If he does and he converts a significant portion of people into supporters,  the democratic party is going to suffer for a long time.   This is a demographic that, if he can crack it,  will make him unstoppable for reelection in 2000

    Of course what he not counting on is the Tsnumani of economic collapse coming our way when the bond bubble bursts.  So who knows how things play out in that context.

     

    Again,  not  a DT endorsement,  just a perception reality check based on my research and understanding

     

    mememonkey

     

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Mon, Nov 14, 2016 - 3:04am

    #31

    Jim H

    Status Diamond Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1798

    Trump a racist?

    I see no evidence.  I do see this;

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Mon, Nov 14, 2016 - 3:24am

    Reply to #17

    Oliveoilguy

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 29 2012

    Posts: 520

    Susan Estrich

    Glad to be corrected on the glass ceiling detail and will revise my statement that Trump hired Kellyanne and put his trust in a woman and he won the election, and hired 2 others who are black and gay.  I enjoyed the discussion with you, but will sign off now because we need to see what really happens going forward. Not much use in speculating on what might happen, or the quality of public servants they will be.  We will find out soon enough.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Mon, Nov 14, 2016 - 3:24am

    #32
    GeoffZee

    GeoffZee

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Nov 14 2016

    Posts: 1

    What's happening locally

    I always appreciate Chris's articles.

    I agree with the economic origins that propelled the energy behind Trump supporters, but are they aware of the package deal that comes with him?

    Locally, here in NC, the KKK has scheduled an election victory cavalcade.  A few towns over from me flyers were left in people's mailboxes – these flyers had swastikas and talked about Jews 'controlng immigration and degeneracy' and called for joining together to save European heritage.  It had a link to a known alt right website.  You are probably aware of other incidents like this across the nation.  

    As a mental health clinician I have had multiple crisis calls last week from parents asking for my help with their children becoming hysterical thinking that Trump will come after them.  I have also seen people reveling in the fact that "…I don't have to be Politically Correct anymore!!!" and verbally lashing out with demeaning and derogatory logorrhea.  Other colleague clinicians have had similar experiences.     

    No, not all of his supporters are racist, but the drip drip drip of his message since he announced his candidacy had its' impact and I fear that Pandora's box has opened.  I doubt that we are ready for what will happen now that the wound-up spring has become unsprung.  I just read that Steve Bannon will be Chief Strategist for the Trump administration and it is known that he is an alt right proponent.  Will Machiavellian nationalism be seen as legitimate and a norm? 

    A Kasich or Romney or Rubio may have had conservative policies but I guess they were not able to serve as a lightening rod for people's resentment.

    We definitely aren't in Kansas anymore….

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Mon, Nov 14, 2016 - 3:25am

    Reply to #17

    Oliveoilguy

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 29 2012

    Posts: 520

    Susan Estrich

    Double Post

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Mon, Nov 14, 2016 - 3:44am

    #33
    capesurvivor

    capesurvivor

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Sep 12 2008

    Posts: 210

    Different dichotomous conceptualization

    Good essay, Chris, but I disagree that rural vs. urban is the best way to characterize the divide here.  I think it is secure vs. insecure. The elite know that they will always be fed, housed, medically treated, and enjoy life. The insecure know they will always be struggling to meet these needs, essentially Maslow's physiological needs, and will work until they die to put bread on the table.

    I  had plumbing problems this week and asked my plumber who he voted for…not HRC. The little people, the only ones who pay taxes as Leona Helmsley famously said, have spoken. But billionaire Trump's "policies" are so wrong headed and conflict with each other in so many ways that the little people have been suckered once again.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Mon, Nov 14, 2016 - 9:38am

    Reply to #25
    reflector

    reflector

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 20 2011

    Posts: 252

    RE: I'm confused

    ok treebeard, since you asked, i will reply to the points you raised:

    [quote=treebeard]

    HRC is bent on the removal of government influence on the free markets, as well as every other aspect of civic life.

    [/quote]

    i'm not sure where you got that idea, that seem to me to be the exact opposite of reality, as i see it.

    it would be more accurate to say, she is bent on removal of government laws and regulations that hamper her and her crony donors and co-conspirators from amassing ever greater power and wealth for themselves.

    the government laws and regulations which grant her and her associates special privileges, she absolutely loves those and wants to keep them around.

    [quote=treebeard]

    The "trade" deals explicit purpose is (NAFTA, TPP, etc) is to circumvent all government influence on international trade and national laws, leaving them impotent.  Allowing multinational corps (an entity in the free market acting as a free trader) to sue national governments for any infringement on their ability to make a profit, whether that cause be from labor laws, environmental laws, health and welfare laws, food safety laws, etc.

    [/quote]

    agreed, the so called free trade deals are not at all about free trade, they are about destroying national sovereignty, and subjugating nations to the will of the corporatists. i don't happen to know what her position is on that, but, fortunately with trump's election, it appears those faux-freetrade deals are done for anyways.

    [quote=treebeard]

    Prison industrial complex, removal of government control in all aspects of that, so that prison system can act in the free market of the criminal just system in order to pursue their interests as a free trader.

    Health care system, remove the government of all controls so that big pharma, insurance giants, medical industry can act as free trader in the free market without the fear of government regulation.

    Wall Street and the Banking System, eliminate government influence and regulation so the private "federal" reserve banking system can act in the free market to pursue its interests as a free trader.

    Military industrial complex, eliminate government influence there as well.  So that military armament sales and wars can be based on a free market entity pursuing their interests as a free trader.  There is no draft, so conscripts are there of their own free will, acting as free agents in a free market as well so no problem there right?

    [/quote]

    i don't think you quite understand the concept of free market. in a free market, participants are able to make choices based on their own merits, to the extent that it benefits them, freely, and without coercion (such as the threat an armed agent of a government would exert, whether explicitly or implicitly).

    but sure, i'll be happy to reply on those 4 points you mention:

    prison industrial complex – how would it even exist without government? this monstrosity exists due to government cronyist contracts being given to private for-profit corporations; without government the prison industrial complex would obviously not exist at all.

    health care system – health care system is a disaster and horribly overpriced in this country, and why? patent law with regard to manufacture of drugs, the FDA approval process, medical malpractice insurance to protect from lawsuits, obamacare – all of these items are disasters that hit the american consumer directly and are caused by government interference in the marketplace. you really believe HRC would eliminate these barriers to entry to smaller practices and clinics and drug producers so that competition in the marketplace would thrive and costs would be lowered to an affordable level? i don't.

    banking system – you're aware that the banking cartel has special privileges and powers granted to it by the federal government, right? and this is the essential source of their power, which they use to manipulate markets and bribe politicians. again, this is the exact opposite of the free market. to suggest that HRC would do away with the bankers' special privilege, is just crazy talk.

    military industrial complex – the military industrial complex is the very essence of government violence, and the funding for it comes from the banksters' funny-money and debt based fiat ponzi schemes, which is granted to them by, of course, the federal government. there's an brilliant talk out on youtube by michael rivero titled "all wars are bankers' wars", i would recommend it if you have any doubts about where the funding for war comes from. there is precisely zero chance that HRC would interfere with this gravy train.

    [quote=treebeard]

    What vestiges of government remain are simply instruments that free market entities use to pursue market share nationally and on the global stage and of course give the illusion that citizens have a say in national affairs.  If you were to ask HRC and her cronies on wall street if they favored the elimination of Government all together, I'm sure the answer would be a resounding YES!  Of course they would never say that, as she has advised already, you need to have a separate private and public persona.

    Government is already dead, private banking interests and multinational corps already rule the world.  So what are we supposed to do now, burry the dead copses of government.  Hate to turn a phrase, but stand around and kick a dead horse? I'm sure this Neoliberal disaster is not what libertarians had mind. Enlighten as to how we are supposed to from here to what libertarians have in mind.

    Am I being too negative here?

    [/quote]

    HRC does not support the free market or small government at all, she supports a strong government that tramples any opposition underfoot by any means necessary, and that rewards crony corporatists that support her personally. this is the exact *opposite* of the free market.

    also, an essential pillar of libertarian thought is respect for the constitution and rule of law, and the evidence is pretty clear that HRC has no respect for any law but the law of the jungle.

    it is simply not factual to suggest that HRC is a libertarian, that she represents libertarian views, or that she enjoys any support whatsoever from the libertarian community.

    as far as "how we are supposed to from here to what libertarians have in mind", here's a few good steps: end america's imperial wars of aggression, bring the troops home, stop giving out funds to other countries when ours is bankrupt, end the war on drugs, and most importantly: end the fed! federal reserve counterfeiting is the source of the oligarchs' power and steals wealth from every working american.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Mon, Nov 14, 2016 - 1:51pm

    Reply to #32

    Snydeman

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 06 2013

    Posts: 486

    Geoff and Oliveguy

    [quote=GeoffZee]

    No, not all of his supporters are racist, but the drip drip drip of his message since he announced his candidacy had its' impact and I fear that Pandora's box has opened.  I doubt that we are ready for what will happen now that the wound-up spring has become unsprung.  I just read that Steve Bannon will be Chief Strategist for the Trump administration and it is known that he is an alt right proponent.  Will Machiavellian nationalism be seen as legitimate and a norm? 

    [/quote]

    This. This right here is the basis of my opposition to Trump. I agree that Trump himself might not really be that racist, homophobic, bigoted or even misogynist (dubious on this last one, though, given what he was recorded saying about women on multiple occasions), but the way he ran his campaign – or the way it was covered in the media, though it's not like there is a dearth of inflammatory statements from him on Twitter and elsewhere – has "normalized" and "mainstreamed" the kind of public discourse that is at best disagreeable, and at worst opens us up to a reactionary violence against any minority group. I teach a class called "Stopping Genocide," in which we compare three modern-day genocides and see what the commonalities are between them. You'd be surprised how similar the paths to genocidal action are – the "causes" if you will – as well as the rapidity with which a society can go from just holding stereotypes to committing mass violence on a group of people. While I am not suggesting we are on that path for sure, the sentiments echoed in the Trump campaign set a dangerous precedent for future campaigns. Pandora's Box indeed.

     

    That being said, I reiterate that I'm no Hillary fan. While she isn't overtly racist, I doubt her diversity credentials, except insofar as those credentials have allowed her to gather political capital and further her political career. I don't think she truly cares about minorities the way most supporters of a diverse society do, and if she's a "friend of the people," I'm a PhD in interstellar warp drive theory. Fantasies, both.

     

    What I know from my limited daily life is that my gay, trans, and minority students are plain terrified right now, and that's just not the way my country should be. I also know that the elite have managed to set us on each other again, and that worries me as well. If the collapse is coming soon, and they know it, then the way things have played out is exactly how I would set up the dominos if I were pulling the strings: set in motion the requisite divisions in society, put the jester on the throne who will take the blame, and undermine the people's confidence that they managed to elect an "agent of change," so that will stay home even more the next time it comes to a vote. Then pull your fingers from the dike and run.

     

    To Oliveguy (apologies if I butchered your screen name – can't double check it right now), that was my only real point – you and I are sharing opinions based off of a set of facts, but neither of us will know whose interpretation is correct until we're halfway through the opera. I apologize if I came across as snarky; I'm exhausted and spent right now, and I'm less able to moderate or think through what I say these days as a result, which is one reason I need to stay off these boards a bit, as I have no desire to contribute to a degradation of the quality of conversation here at PP. There are enough sites out there with immature name-calling and trolling, and I like seeing the civil discourse here.

     

    I can also say that my "internal gut instinct" regarding collapse used to have a timer associated with it, in that things were always "in the future." Recently, however, my gut has been quiet and unsettled on the issue of how far out I feel the collapse is. It's as if my instinct is telling me we're in the thick of it, and the house of cards isn't unraveling, it's coming down. Needless to say, it's one thing to talk about and plan for collapse, and another thing entirely to feel you are now living through itI feel like a historian who has been chronicling the decline of Rome from my comfortable chair in my patrician's estate inside the city, at the moment he notices campfires of the barbarians at the gate. Despite my long five years of preparations, I'm woefully unready.

     

    Note, please, that I am using the words think and feel with intent. None of what I write here is to be regarded as me positing fact. This is just me talking from my corner of the universe.

     

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Mon, Nov 14, 2016 - 2:22pm

    #34
    dryam2000

    dryam2000

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Sep 06 2009

    Posts: 241

    Sheeple

    The election was just one big con, and the main problem now is we the sheeple are not able to sort out fact from fiction.  Instead, the sheeple have gotten suckered in, once again, and are arguing & fighting amongst ourselves.

    Short list of facts we do know:

    1)  The media is corrupt as corrupt gets and are the main tools of the elites.  It's called propaganda people. I would recommend turning off tv & radio, tuning out, studying history, trying to stick to the more "factual" websites always trying to research the why & how they get their information (non-U.S. sources tend to have least bias), and thinking for yourselves.  

    2)  The "markets" are managed by the elites, and the sheeple have been led to believe the economy is doing just swell for the past several years when everyone knows nothing could be further from the truth.  

    3)  There are fringe groups from every corner of society who will display extreme reprehensible behavior.  The groups are sometimes used as pawns by the elites in their bigger game.

    4)  Our standard of living absolutely will fall much further unless society hits the lottery with a new discovery rivaling fossil fuels.  Good luck with that.  This fall will be painful for everyone, and blame will be dispersed towards every person/group.  As humans, blaming others is what we do.  The elites will try to manipulate who gets blamed.

     

    We do not know if Trump was selected by the elites for a certain purpose such as being the fall guy for the long overdue financial crash, or squash the growing populace movement by soon punishing them with economic or social mayhem in order to get their heads straight for the next administration, to slip past new laws curtailing more freedoms, or to ultimately pave the way for their globalist agenda in 4 years.  

    It's exceedingly easy for people to deceive with words, but actions not so much.  One great theme of PP is to try to look at the world in the most objective way possible, and deal with that reality as directly as possible.

     

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Mon, Nov 14, 2016 - 6:34pm

    #35

    blackeagle

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: May 16 2013

    Posts: 221

    Once upon a time

    Once upon a time in a far far away country rulers from the unique party were using the country richness for their own benefit without regard to the country needs. The government was to corrupt and negligent, it did not care to hide his bad actions.  Misery was higher and broader with every passing day. Then came multiparty (after a few protests and slaps, of course). The country got multiparty, human rights… and the same rulers that did not change their habits. All the new political parties based their strategies at denouncing the old party, the one that screwed the country, the one that put the seed for 50% of the young men to be jobless, the one that indebted this oil rich country, Amongst this herd of new political parties, one was different: he put all his energy to denounce violently the then government. He marched in streets (collecting some more slaps). He organized sittings (They were addicted to slaps). he organised large gatherings filling soccer stadiums (Without the help of pop stars). Other parties were seen as boring intellectuals: an article from time to time, a small gathering that did not fill the smallest theater. Well, they were following the law and were polite. After a few years of this daily regime an election came. The campaign was not boring at allwink. A the time, this far far away country had no polls agencies, no Facebook, no Twitter. Just one channel plain TV and the old good printed press. On election day people voted for the "barkers"; The ones that denounced high and loud the corrupt government; The ones without program; The ones that promised to jail all the corrupts; The ones that promised a job for every man; The ones that promised a house for every family. How not to vote for them, heh? Thei said the right thing; they got their share of slaps; This victory was well deserved.

    This party, was the ISF.

    Fork the story: The ISF did not get in power because the army canceled the elections, jailed its leaders and strongly repressed any attempt to raise the finger to ask permission to speak. Of course, the same old rulers continued their party and the country got more debt to feed the populace. 30 years after, this country is not yet out of wood.

    Whatever the country, whatever the culture, whatever the religion, whatever the time, if you apply the same equation, you get the same result. When a government is no more trusted, then the substitutes are (most often than not) the ones that say loudly what others think in a low voice. They could be good, they could be bad. The change is always a gamble. If this equation seems the same for every country, the outcome is unique to each one.

     

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Mon, Nov 14, 2016 - 7:21pm

    #36
    aggrivated

    aggrivated

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Sep 22 2010

    Posts: 441

    The media's role and our's.

    One thing that has been unusual in this election has been the fetal position-thumb sucking-weeping response of some of the 'loosing' side AND the dread of how to tell the children that all is lost. I can only point to the media in it's vilifying role of Trump coupled with a vision of a new version of manifest destiny which is being threatened primarily in the media's virtual reality world. When I put my phone in my pocket and greet and speak with my neighbors in this very diverse urban neighborhood where I live there is no sense of any loss or threat.

    It is true that we are living in a time of collapse, but politics has very little to do with the reasons we are here. The further into this we go, the more important piece of our lives will be local governance and building the  relationships needed to be involved in that sphere.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Tue, Nov 15, 2016 - 5:19am

    #37
    treebeard

    treebeard

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 18 2010

    Posts: 551

    A short answer

    when a very long one is appropriate.  When you hear the "liberal" establishment saying the purpose of "Obama Care" is to make sure every American has access to health care, its the same type of explanation they gave for invading Iraq, to protect Americans from weapons of mass destruction.  Yet we all believe it and debate the policy on that basis.  Both are political cover for the same type of activity, power, control and extraction.  Which is why the Republican/libertarian vs Liberal/democratic main stream debate is so absurd, they are simply offering differing types of acceptable political cover for the same activity.  Which is why the Trump/Clinton debate is the height of absurdity, we are arguing over what kind of lie we like being told while we are being screwed.  That is why, regardless of who is elected, the trajectory of policy doesn't change.

    So this whole small government republican, big government democrat thing is just as absurd.  We have tied ourselves up by listing to these lies.  And the person we have subjugated ourselves to is standing in front of us with a pipe wrench (the "free market") and a hammer ("big government").  He is happily beating the crap out of us alternatively with either one.  He can inflict just as much damage if either tool is taken away from him.  Without government, and all of our societal arrangements managed by "markets" can be as dark a totalitarian nightmare as any "big government" dictatorship.  Libertarians "believe" in the rule of law? What has belief got to do with it. Everybody wants the rule of law, except perhaps the 0.1% of humanity the we have ceded control of human affairs to right now.  The question is how can that be achieved.  Being against "government" as the cause of the problem or against "big business/capitalism" is nonsensical.

    The discussion has to leave this absurd dualistic distinctions behind to get anywhere.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Tue, Nov 15, 2016 - 6:21am

    Reply to #32

    Rector

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 07 2010

    Posts: 323

    Safe Space

    What I know from my limited daily life is that my gay, trans, and minority students are plain terrified right now, and that's just not the way my country should be. 

    That's unfortunate.  Have you suggested counseling or some time in a safe space?  I know that a lifetime of participation trophies has robbed our young people of the ability to lose with grace and so some time with playdough, coloring books, and a puppy might just do the trick.

    How pathetic.  Additional evidence that we are doomed.

    Rector

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Tue, Nov 15, 2016 - 7:48am

    Reply to #32

    davefairtex

    Status Diamond Member (Offline)

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 3131

    terrified students

    Rector-

    That's unfortunate.  Have you suggested counseling or some time in a safe space?  I know that a lifetime of participation trophies has robbed our young people of the ability to lose with grace and so some time with playdough, coloring books, and a puppy might just do the trick.

    I think you miss the point.  His students' reaction is NOT about losing an election.  It's because these people watch media, and the (Clinton-controlled) media spent the last four months working overtime to program everyone in the country that Trump is a soulless monster come to eat them and their families, roasting their babies on a spit while laughing, and so on.

    This emotional programming has been extremely effective.  That's why people are rioting now.  Not because they aren't good losers, but because they've been successfully emotionally programmed by the Clinton Campaign's media arm (CNN, CNBC, and millions of scary social media posts), who are very good at what they do.

    What's more, the "bad element" (the real scumbag racist nazis out there) have also been convinced by this same Clinton emotional-programming campaign that Trump is on their side, so they are emboldened to act badly!  A win-win, from HRC's standpoint, but a lose-lose from civil society's view.

    So in sum, the students' fear is real.  Until Trump manages to disarm the Clinton/Media emotional programming, they will remain in a state of fear – and because the scumbags have been encouraged, his students may be the target of actual violence right now, so they really do have something to worry about.

    You are a minority in America – as an Evangelical in a sea of much less religious people.  I know you feel the emotional impact of this, and your response is to suck it up and soldier on.  But – I'm just guessing – you aren't subject to physical attacks when you walk down the street and a gang of Athiests spots you as "one of those God freaks" and decides to tune you up just on that basis alone.

    There's a difference between being a visible minority, and being an invisible one.  If you're visible, you are much, much more easily targeted.  And that's not a great feeling, especially when scumbags tend to run in packs, and feel emboldened that "Trump has their back" by all of Clinton's programming.

    People imagine all this is about Trump.  I just don't think it is.  Its about HRC's successful job in a massive, national emotional programming effort – the kind where you need actual brain damage to avoid its effects.

    Here is what I mean:

    Coke uses happy images in their ads in such an effective way that people who actually prefer the taste of Pepsi (in a blind test) will select Coke because of the happy emotional impact of Coke's branding effort somehow manages to override what their taste buds have told them.  They – knowingly – select a worse-tasting drink because of the emotional impact of the advertising.

    The only people able to resist the Coke ad effects are people with a very specific type of brain damage to a region of the brain known to affect emotions.

    If Coke can do this with sugar water, think Clinton can do the opposite with Donald Trump?  I think we're seeing the answer before us, in real time.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18392113

    Prefrontal cortex damage abolishes brand-cued changes in cola preference.

    Human decision-making is remarkably susceptible to commercial advertising, yet the neurobiological basis of this phenomenon remains largely unexplored. With a series of Coke and Pepsi taste tests we show that patients with damage specifically involving ventromedial prefrontal cortex (VMPC), an area important for emotion, did not demonstrate the normal preference bias when exposed to brand information. Both comparison groups (neurologically normal adults and lesion patients with intact VMPC) preferred Pepsi in a blind taste test, but in subsequent taste tests that featured brand information ('semi-blind' taste tests), both comparison groups' preferences were skewed toward Coke, illustrating the so-called 'Pepsi paradox'. Like comparison groups, the VMPC patients preferred Pepsi in the blind taste test, but unlike comparison groups, the VMPC patients maintained their Pepsi preference in the semi-blind test. The result that VMPC damage abolishes the 'Pepsi paradox' suggests that the VMPC is an important part of the neural substrate for translating commercial images into brand preferences

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Tue, Nov 15, 2016 - 8:27am

    Reply to #14
    David Phillips

    David Phillips

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 29 2009

    Posts: 111

    Putin's Alt Right Puppeteer Alexander Dugan explains narrative

    Trump and Putin unite over Syria as the Russian fleet arrives to bomb Aleppo

    and discuss the radical changes coming to America

     

    In Syria, the remaining residents of Aleppo are fleeing.

     

    Link

     

    As a flotilla of Russian ship arrive.  Mass bombing is expected.

     

    Link

     

    Meanwhile in Russia, Putin and Trump talk of improving relations over Syria.

     

    https://www.rt.com/news/366925-putin-trump-phone-call/

     

     

    They are going to reverse decades of warring against each other and be more pragmatic.

     

     

    They blame Obama for deliberately bullying them, but Trump says that he will be their buddy.

     

     

    (So if Aleppo is bombed, it’s not because Obama is weak on defence, it’s because Putin and Trump arranged for it beforehand.)

     

    Trump promises a radical change.

     

     

    To get a clue of what this radical change might be let’s listen to what his political advisor is saying.

     

     

    Trump hired Steve Bannon to be his political advisor after he fired the old-guard GOP advisors last summer.  Now he just became Trump’s Chief Strategist where he was just assured of Trump’s hard-line promises.

     

    Chairman of Breitbart, Steve Bannon claims to be the “Platform for the Alt Right.”

     

    http://www.dailywire.com/news/9441/actual-conservatives-guide-alt-right-8-things-you-michael-knowles#

     

    Besides all of the hatemongering, the central message of the Alt Right is hard to pick out in the United States.  But in Canada, someone spelled it out more clearly.  

     

    Link

     

    In the US, those neighbors of yours that have been stockpiling guns, the ones waiting for society to fall apart, are about to get the day that they have been waiting for.

     

    As it turns out, Putin has been funding and feeding propaganda to these Alt Right websites for decades, and soon as Trump becomes president, Bannon activates them.

     

    Trump is Putin’s puppet.  

     

     

    Meet Putin’s “Rasputin,” Alexander Dugin, the master puppeteer.

     

    Listen to Alexander Dugin gloat over Trump’s victory and your new America

     

    He is the mastermind behind the fascist movement that has grown out of Russia and into Europe in the form of Brexit.  And now into the United States with the election of Donald Trump.

     

     

    Dugin used to call for the destruction of America and its liberal ideology, but now he says that this is the real America, “the America of realism.

     

    He is calling for an end to his worldwide anti-Americanism campaign and calling for solidarity with the American people, now that the liberal globalist have been replaced.

     

     

    Then he talks about a second America emerging out of the shadows.  That would be those well armed Alt Right guns nuts, finally getting their day.  Ready to take revenge on all of the “elites” who never took them seriously.

     

     

    Dugin also congratulates his American spokes piece, Alex Jones, whose viewership on Infowars just swelled by 20 million after Trump’s election.

     

    Listen to Alex Jones explain how the media establishment is scum

    and how he is their new replacement

     

    Now watch him rant how the liberals are just begging to be murdered.

     

    Click here for one of many Alex Jones rants

     

    So, if you don’t want a crazy gun nut like Alex Jones showing up unexpectedly seeking revenge after Trump gets elected and Bannon releases Dugin’s Alt Right minions, and you suddenly don’t like Trump’s/Putin’s/Dugin’s/Alex Jones’s new America anymore, there is something that you can do.

     

    Fortunately the founding fathers put a clause in the constitution that delays the vote of the Electoral College until December 18th, in case some sort of threat emerged.  We need a nation wide campaign to appeal to the members of the Electoral College to vote no for Donald Trump, before America is destroyed and we descend into fascism .

     

    To stop those apocalyptic gun nuts from finally getting their day,  Urge all members of the Electoral College to vote no for Donald Trump on December 18th!

     

    Click here if you wish to see Alexander Dugin’s The Fourth Revolution website where he describes what is in store for America and the world if Trump is confirmed by the Electoral College.

     

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Tue, Nov 15, 2016 - 9:34am

    Reply to #32

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    The next danger

    It occurs to me that you are resorting to name calling, Dave. This is the very thing that the left used so ineffectively against the right.

    Do you have any links of white Conservative males marauding in packs? I get the impression that this is the  default position of Blacks and the Regressive youth. The Conservatives have, as Pye pointed out, exercised their power in the ballot box.

    This reminds me too much of the Maidan and Cookies Noodleman. Soros et al have gone into a huddle to decide how to thwart Trump. I wonder if they will discuss their success in the Ukraine?

    I have tried to get my warning passed my chaperone and failed. (Is this spite?) The next step is to deploy agents provocateur.  They operate in two man teams. One to kill indiscriminately and one to guard the escape route.

    The naive citizens blame the other side, and it is on for man and boy. No safe spaces then.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-14/soros-and-liberal-mega-donors-plot-war-donald-trump

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Tue, Nov 15, 2016 - 10:22am

    #38

    mememonkey

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Nov 01 2009

    Posts: 100

    Programming is ubiquitous and effective

     I agree completely on the programming.of the HRC campaign and it's effect.  Although I suspect you will get some pushback from people here who don't realize the full effect it's had on them. It was pretty easy to do in the case of Trump as he gave the HRC campaign plenty of ammo to amplify with his aggressive style and attention getting statements.  Even as he walked back his more outlandish statements and modified his positions, the frame was already in place and constantly reinforced   He ended up being child eating Robe wearing KKK monster when in reality he's really just an obnoxious and abrasive run of the mill republican with a talent for provoking media attention.

    A similar emotional  marketing campaign was done with 911 and is one of the biggest biggest clues to the Neocon culpability and foreknowledge. The coordinated marketing campaign was in place before with key framing  of A new pearl Harbor i.e. a justified call to War because of a nefarious sneak attack  by the spring and early summer of 2001 including the Hollywood movie turkey Pearl Harbor with Ben Affleck that was released in late may of 2001 and Paul Wolfowitz''s speech at West  Point

    [quote=Aaron Dykes/Jones Report Feb 9 2007]

     

    Video posted recently on Live Leak shows now World Bank President Paul Wolfowitz delivering a June 2001 West Point commencement speech wherein he focused on surprise attacks– making heavy reference to Pearl Harbor.

    Wolfowitz illustrated, just months before the infamous 9/11 attacks, that Pearl Harbor is interesting in that it was "preceded by an astonishing number of unheeded warnings and missed signals."

    This surfacing video only reinforces the pre-meditation established by the Project for a New American Century (PNAC). Wolfowitz helped to pen the think tank's September 2000 document 'Rebuilding America's Defenses' which stated on pg. 51, amidst a larger call for dramatic military build-up, that:

    "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor

     

    [/quote]

    immediately during and after the attack Neocons rolled out a coordinated set of cues across the  full spectrum of media outlets, interspersed with the endless loops of the the emotionally traumatic images. and repeating the New Pearl harbor frame they Identified  Bin Laden in Afghanistan, Arabs as terrorists, Sadamn, Iraq, Libya, Iran the need for a " War on Terror" 

     

    here is Ehud Barak one hour after the attacks on BBC:

     

     

    It works if your selling Sugar water creating political super villains  or Justifying illegal wars  Human brains are easily manipulated with emotional cues and repetition.  All emotions work but Fear is perhaps the most effective as it is wired directly into our survival instincts.

    That is why we hear and see child bombing victims images when it serves our foreign policy goals in Syria, and why we don't see those images when it doesn't, like in Yemen currently.

    Were living in a giant propaganda, marketing programming matrix that has built a shared illusion consensus of how the world is.

    The key is always understanding the frame and who benefits by it.

    mememonkey

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Tue, Nov 15, 2016 - 10:32am

    Reply to #14

    mememonkey

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Nov 01 2009

    Posts: 100

    Thanks for the update

    Hey David,

    I am shocked to hear that the Russians and Trump are planning to Bomb the children in Allepo

    I hope the moderate rebels made it out in time!

    Could you put some devil horns on those pics to help us identify the really bad guys?

    thanks

    mememonkey

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Tue, Nov 15, 2016 - 12:32pm

    #39
    treebeard

    treebeard

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 18 2010

    Posts: 551

    Wow!

    And to prove my point, in post #59 someone has posted an amazing neocon propaganda diatribe.  The absurdity of it all.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Tue, Nov 15, 2016 - 1:54pm

    Reply to #32

    Snydeman

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 06 2013

    Posts: 486

    Rector wrote:What I know

    [quote=Rector]

    What I know from my limited daily life is that my gay, trans, and minority students are plain terrified right now, and that's just not the way my country should be. 

    That's unfortunate.  Have you suggested counseling or some time in a safe space?  I know that a lifetime of participation trophies has robbed our young people of the ability to lose with grace and so some time with playdough, coloring books, and a puppy might just do the trick.

    How pathetic.  Additional evidence that we are doomed.

    Rector

    [/quote]

    In my limited experience in life, the ones who often call others sore losers are a) the current "winners," so it is so very easy for them to say, and b) the first ones to just as vociferously complain when the situation is reversed; a trend I've noticed in both conservatives and liberals. I hope you are not one of those people, Rector, but the level of hypocrisy on both sides this election cycle boggles my mind. "Come together and support the President" from the very same people who claimed Obama wasn't a citizen and wasn't "their President." Or how about "She won the popular vote," when in reality only about a quarter of the voting population voted for either candidate.

     

    I'm so very, very tired of the rhetoric. The elite have so managed to turn everyone on each other so well that we are sniping each other even here, on a site where we share so MANY similar views on the problems we face and the future we are entering in to. Once they let this house of cards come down, they can sit secure in their estates and bunkers, knowing that the mass of people, who pose the greatest threat to them, will instead be focused on ripping each other to shreds. 

     

    Checkmate.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Tue, Nov 15, 2016 - 2:42pm

    #40
    aggrivated

    aggrivated

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Sep 22 2010

    Posts: 441

    pockets of disappointment

    Snydeman, you said and I agree
    ‘Once they let this house of cards come down, they can sit secure in their estates and bunkers, knowing that the mass of people, who pose the greatest threat to them, will instead be focused on ripping each other to shreds.’

    That is their plan and their hope. Elites don’t like to share. For example, ask anyone who deals with the ultra rich and you will find out that they are ususally very slow bill payers.

    But our job at PP has been and will be to provide the other narrative when the house of cards comes down. If we have done our homework there will be many pockets of disappointment for those elite. That requires sharing, work, and communication.

    Chris and Adam–I know you keep personal details of members private, but I would love to see some local or regional statistics of our membership. It’s good to know you are not alone. At some point I would like to see regional Rowe meetings and eventually more local ones.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Tue, Nov 15, 2016 - 2:44pm

    Reply to #32

    nickbert

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2009

    Posts: 260

    patience is needed

    Who's more at fault?… these students, or the helicopter parents and other adults who sheltered them from any adversity?

    It's going to take a lot of time to toughen them up…. patience on our part is needed here (and yes, in some cases a shit-ton of patience).  As well as a little coaching to help them adopt a 'take no shit' response instead of fear, if/when they do face some dirtbag who wants to victimize them (some of them may be over-reacting, but it's also likely their risks are a little higher now…).

    [quote=Rector]

    What I know from my limited daily life is that my gay, trans, and minority students are plain terrified right now, and that's just not the way my country should be. 

    That's unfortunate.  Have you suggested counseling or some time in a safe space?  I know that a lifetime of participation trophies has robbed our young people of the ability to lose with grace and so some time with playdough, coloring books, and a puppy might just do the trick.

    How pathetic.  Additional evidence that we are doomed.

    Rector

    [/quote]

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Tue, Nov 15, 2016 - 3:06pm

    Reply to #40

    Michael_Rudmin

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 25 2014

    Posts: 847

    I disagree about local.regional statistics

    If you don’t mind others finding you, then post your location like I do: I’m in Hampton roads, VA. There are others as well. I know of one who was hiking through the western part of the state, one who lives up near C’ville, one who lives down in Georgia.
    But combining statistics with known data can give info on the others, and if anyone wishes to remain semiprivate, I think it’s better to allow it to be.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Tue, Nov 15, 2016 - 5:05pm

    #41

    newsbuoy

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Dec 10 2013

    Posts: 95

    History Doesn't Repeat or Ryhmn Dept.

    http://research.calvin.edu/german-propaganda-archive/schotte.htm

    If you dare:

    Replace Germany, Hitler, Jew with USA, Trump and Liberal. See if it resonates or sounds familiar.

    Then update the status of your travel papers.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Tue, Nov 15, 2016 - 5:42pm

    Reply to #41

    newsbuoy

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Dec 10 2013

    Posts: 95

    Don't You Take It Too Bad

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Tue, Nov 15, 2016 - 6:30pm

    Reply to #40
    aggrivated

    aggrivated

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Sep 22 2010

    Posts: 441

    clarifying statistics idea

    Michael

    I am actually one of those who prefers at least a semi private life on the internet.  What I had in mind was a national map showing concentrations of members, not their actual individual locations. This could be done on a regional basis or a state wide basis, not even identifying cities. Privacy is important.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Tue, Nov 15, 2016 - 6:43pm

    Reply to #32

    Rector

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 07 2010

    Posts: 323

    "Terrified" - <eyes rolling>

    I agree whole heartedly that we have been manipulated by false narratives propagated by the usual suspects that drive a wedges into the populous.  Very effective.  One of the best mechanisms for this is our constant harping about our differences – and the percieved persecution "our group" is under from "them".

    I think you may have misunderstood my post.  I certainly have no beef with you or your opinions.

    First, let me say that the only person more repulsive to me than DT (as President) was HRC.  It was a hideous choice between a bombastic buffoon and a sociopathic racketeer.  The very fact that these two were on the ballot is prima fascia evidence that the electorate is incompetent.  As such, we are doomed.  I would have voted for ANY of the other Republican candidates or Bernie Sanders rather than these two.

    My harshness is an attempt to mock the idea that your "gay, trans, and minority" students should be "terrified".  This is simply absurd.

    "Terrified" of what?  When was the last time a group of straight, "cys" (whatever the f*ck that is), white people went on a rampage to attack such students?  Prevarication aside I bet NONE of them have ever been physically assaulted etc. by "Donald Trump" supporters in their personal experience.  It is an irrational construct born from too much "Queer Studies" and not enough "life".  This focus on the differences that separate us rather than our shared problems IS PART OF THE PROBLEM.  Academia has been the incubator of this phenomenon.

    How would DT's election have anything to do with that anyway?  There is no movement to begin persecuting your students by anyone.  I'm simply saying that such fear is irrational and unsupported by the facts.  These whiny millennials haven't had a tough day yet – but that will change soon enough – the collapse will bring us all low and replace all this bullshit navel gazing with real pain.

    Nothing focuses the mind like hunger and mortality.  I trust you will teach them something in your class – they get enough garbage from our culture.  

    Rector

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Tue, Nov 15, 2016 - 6:54pm

    Reply to #37

    LogansRun

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Mar 18 2009

    Posts: 304

    This....

    I'll say it again….wake up people.

    I find it pathetic that so many people on this site, that consider themselves to have taken the Red Pill, to still believe in "the system".  Oh, and the "feelings" that have been hurt by this election.  Pathetic.  

    Head shaking in disgust.

    [quote=treebeard]

    when a very long one is appropriate.  When you hear the "liberal" establishment saying the purpose of "Obama Care" is to make sure every American has access to health care, its the same type of explanation they gave for invading Iraq, to protect Americans from weapons of mass destruction.  Yet we all believe it and debate the policy on that basis.  Both are political cover for the same type of activity, power, control and extraction.  Which is why the Republican/libertarian vs Liberal/democratic main stream debate is so absurd, they are simply offering differing types of acceptable political cover for the same activity.  Which is why the Trump/Clinton debate is the height of absurdity, we are arguing over what kind of lie we like being told while we are being screwed.  That is why, regardless of who is elected, the trajectory of policy doesn't change.

    So this whole small government republican, big government democrat thing is just as absurd.  We have tied ourselves up by listing to these lies.  And the person we have subjugated ourselves to is standing in front of us with a pipe wrench (the "free market") and a hammer ("big government").  He is happily beating the crap out of us alternatively with either one.  He can inflict just as much damage if either tool is taken away from him.  Without government, and all of our societal arrangements managed by "markets" can be as dark a totalitarian nightmare as any "big government" dictatorship.  Libertarians "believe" in the rule of law? What has belief got to do with it. Everybody wants the rule of law, except perhaps the 0.1% of humanity the we have ceded control of human affairs to right now.  The question is how can that be achieved.  Being against "government" as the cause of the problem or against "big business/capitalism" is nonsensical.

    The discussion has to leave this absurd dualistic distinctions behind to get anywhere.

    [/quote]

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Tue, Nov 15, 2016 - 7:51pm

    #42

    sand_puppy

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 1876

    LogansRun ...

    Please be more explicit.  What do you see happening?

    What are your impressions, both those backed by facts and also your intuitive "pattern recognition" takes.

    I would like to hear.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Tue, Nov 15, 2016 - 8:11pm

    #43

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Concur

    I agree with LogansRun.

    I reserve the right to retain hope however, and am willing to change my view based on facts on the ground as they emerge.

    Trump reportedly seeking top-secret security clearance for his kids (Market Watch)

    He's already setting his family up for dynasty (greater than the business empire they already rule).

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Tue, Nov 15, 2016 - 9:40pm

    #44

    Chris Martenson

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 07 2007

    Posts: 4543

    My first regular appearance on Glenn Beck

    This is a pretty big announcement;  I'm going to be a regular on the Glenn Beck show.

    He reaches a very large audience, and my role will be to both explain the economic circumstances and what people can do about making their own lives more prepared and resilient.

    Here's the link to the first show.

    And a snippet from the show:

    GLENN: Chris Martenson. Chris Martenson from peakprosperity.com, who is now a member of our team. A guy who I have been literally looking for, a guy like this for at least 15 years. A guy that sees the world in the same way that I do, can explain it, and also can give us options of, what do you do about that? And it’s taken us a while to be able to work out a deal so he could come on because he had complex contracts.

    But we’re so thrilled that he’s a part of our team now. And we’re going to hopefully sit down soon, Chris, and work out some things to get you very involved in GlennBeck.com and the Glenn Beck radio show, to be able to teach some of these things. Because I think people will understand why I’m so concerned and stressed out. Because nobody is explaining this stuff to them in a way that they can understand. And I think people on the business shows on TV — correct me if I’m wrong — are living an absolute illusion or delusion.

    CHRIS: No correction necessary. It’s a self-delusion. It’s astonishing. And here’s the funny part about this, Glenn: You know, when I talk with some of these people, their public — they have the same public and private positions, right? Publicly, they say what they say. I get them behind closed doors, and I say, “Do you really believe that, or how concerned are you?” And some of these people — some of the wealthiest people I know have jets ready to take them to literally bunkers in Switzerland —

    GLENN: Unbelievable. Can I tell you something, Chris? I find it reprehensible. I can’t tell you how many people who are on television saying everything is fine have said to me off air, “I can’t say this, Glenn, but keep saying it — the same thing — I’ve got a Gulfstream ready to go.” Really? Well, thanks a lot. You’re telling us something opposite of what you’re doing. And they just — they don’t — they believe that if they say this, then people will panic and it will be over a lot faster. And I think — they never say this — but I think they think there’s more money to be taken off of the table.

    CHRIS: I think that’s part of it. There’s a lot of self-interest. Can I tell you one of my most disappointing moments in a person’s career, is what I call the retirement speech. Say, a senator, finally on the retirement day, they tell you everything they never said while they were actually in a position to do anything about it.

    GLENN: Yeah. Yeah.

    CHRIS: And then I don’t care anymore I don’t care if you tell me how far off the rails the country has gone now that you’re retiring. What a weak way to go out. Come on, you know.

    GLENN: Yeah. I know. So, Chris, the bubble that I think was coming in 2008 — I started talking about it in ’04 and ’06. And it was the housing bubble. And I said, “It’s going to be Great Depression-style.” And it turns out it wasn’t. I didn’t figure in TARP. Now, I think what we’ve done because of TARP and money printing and everything else, I personally think it is western world depression or even worse, a game-changing kind of scenario. A, do you agree with that? And, B, what does it look like? And, C, is there a TARP, or is there something that changes that, that I don’t see?

    CHRIS: Absolutely. I agree with the position. I was a very vocal critic of all the bailouts, in particular bailing out places like Goldman Sachs at 100 cents on the dollar for their bad bets with AIG, Citigroup. These were badly run organizations that needed and deserved to go out of business. They didn’t. They were rescued. And because of that, Glenn, I think that that was an opportunity to take a painful fall from a ladder that we were four rungs up. Now, because of the Federal Reserve and TARP and all the bailouts, what we’ve gotten is we’re about 20 rungs up the same ladder now, much more painful fall, and may even be worse than that. So the next crisis is going to be bad.

    And they’re going to fight it tooth and nail because they believe in their heart of hearts that it could be a lights-out crisis if they don’t. And I understand how they got there. Remember, 2008, we had to wait a year and a half when Hank Paulson’s memoirs came out, and Mervyn King, then the Bank of England governor — they came out and said, “Guys, we were like three or four hours from a systemic banking collapse that could have wiped the world out.” That’s what they were thinking, right? So what do you think they’re thinking today, when everything that was in place then is still in place, but larger? Do we have fewer derivatives? Is sovereign debt lower? All of this — no. Is the housing bubble — where is it? It’s right back where it was.

    GLENN: Or worse.

    CHRIS: So what they do is they pumped the credit markets up, and it was a double-fingers crossed moment. They were saying, “Please, growth. Please, please, will growth come and bail us out.” It didn’t come. And that’s where we are, at this awkward moment, with the fed saying, “We think we need to raise rates.” We’re like, “Guys, too little, too late. And you’re going to do it into a weakening environment, not a strengthening environment? Never been done before. Good luck with that.”

     

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Tue, Nov 15, 2016 - 11:59pm

    Reply to #44

    pinecarr

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 13 2008

    Posts: 1085

    Congratulations, Chris!!!

    That's excellent news!!  Made my day!:)

    PS And could he give you a better compliment?

    GLENN: Chris Martenson. Chris Martenson from peakprosperity.com, who is now a member of our team. A guy who I have been literally looking for, a guy like this for at least 15 years. A guy that sees the world in the same way that I do, can explain it, and also can give us options of, what do you do about that?

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Wed, Nov 16, 2016 - 12:06am

    Reply to #32

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    The Empathy of Predators.

    As one predator to another Rector, Do you Virtue Signal much?

    a bombastic buffoon and a sociopathic racketeer

    You see your moral inferiors,  I see two Apex predators.

    Kneel or be crushed. (I empathize with you, but I choose not to sympathize.) Like Paul Krugman and MiniMe I identify with cats.

     

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Wed, Nov 16, 2016 - 12:43am

    #45

    Poet

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 20 2009

    Posts: 976

    There are too many promises that can't be kept

    Chris:

    Here's a larger image, if you need it… at 1080 x 838

    Larger (1090x838) image of: "There are too many promises that can't be kept"

    Direct Link (should last a few months): http://i.imgur.com/oX5EAjM.jpg

    Poet

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Wed, Nov 16, 2016 - 12:54am

    Reply to #45

    Chris Martenson

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 07 2007

    Posts: 4543

    Downloaded...

    [quote=Poet]

    Chris:

    Here's a larger image, if you need it… at 1080 x 838

    Direct Link (should last a few months): http://i.imgur.com/oX5EAjM.jpg

    Poet

    [/quote]

    Thanks Poet.  I've downloaded the image.  

    I plan to be referring to this chart a lot in the future, so a very timely gift from you.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Wed, Nov 16, 2016 - 1:51am

    Reply to #44

    Tycer

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 26 2009

    Posts: 206

    cmartenson wrote:This is a

    [quote=cmartenson]

    This is a pretty big announcement;  I'm going to be a regular on the Glenn Beck show.

    [/quote]I understand the positives. I wish you could spread your message as wide without 

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Wed, Nov 16, 2016 - 3:49am

    Reply to #44

    Rector

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 07 2010

    Posts: 323

    Fantastic. . .Years Too Late!

    Dammit!  I've been emailing links to the Crash Course to that guy for years!  Idiot should read his email himself!!!  Someone on the staff should be fired because I have linked TCC and other articles for at least 4 years.  

    Good to hear anyway. Congratulations!

    Rector

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Wed, Nov 16, 2016 - 4:07am

    Reply to #44
    mtl272

    mtl272

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Nov 16 2016

    Posts: 2

    Congratulations on your role for the Glenn Beck show

     Congratulations on your role  with the Glenn Beck show. I've been a listener to the Glenn Beck program since September 11th 2001.  Glenn has a huge heart, as long as you have honor integrity and tell the Truth  with love you will go far.  

    If I could ask you to please review the following article check the facts and if you feel it's warranted please tell Glenn. From what I read I will not be doing business with food for Patriots again, there was another person selling something called "37 items that will sell out after a crisis" ,it was crap, their marketing Styles seemed very similar to food4patriots. 

    Food Storage Review – Food4Patriots – Consumer Warning!

    Thanks for all that you're doing hopefully I can be a useful contributor to your forum.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Wed, Nov 16, 2016 - 4:40am

    #46

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    Talk loudly and carry a small stick.

    Donald promised a huge military. Do you have any idea how much a bomber costs? Probably about 5 major hospitals. Ten, if you consider that your "opponent" feels the need to match you.

    Twenty, if you consider that you are going to bomb hospitals. Why is it that that makes me giggle like a hyena? Not so hard on yourself Arthur, the humour lies in the absurdities.

    I voted for this fellow. He appreciates the humour

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Wed, Nov 16, 2016 - 4:45am

    #47
    mtl272

    mtl272

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Nov 16 2016

    Posts: 2

    Self sufficiency and disaster survival

     I'm sure I don't have to go into an explanation with between self-sufficiency and disaster survival or preparedness.  however I was reading some posts can't find my way back to them for some reason, someone was saying that they were not going to buy firearms to protect themselves. Let me put it this way I am a Christian constitutional conservative gun owner . That being said I will not be one of the ones who goes out looting and taking from others to provide for my family. I have gone to Great expense and personal sacrifice to provide for my family safety in the future including the purchase and the training with them. If I find someone who is in need and I can help them without endangering my family I will do so. I will also use the knowledge that I have gained from almost 30 years of martial arts and shooting to defend my family.  my brother used to criticize me saying that I could not stock enough  to last indefinitely and that's  the view of many people who criticize people for wanting to be prepared. I have no illusions that I could afford or store enough food or supplies to last for more than a year or two.  the reason I see for having a Year's worth of food on is so that you can make it through to the next Harvest from your garden.  I hope we have more time at least another two or three years it's been difficult we've run into so many setbacks since 2008. Please pray for us that will be able to be ready.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Wed, Nov 16, 2016 - 7:45am

    Reply to #44
    David Phillips

    David Phillips

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 29 2009

    Posts: 111

    Admire Beck for realizing damage he did. Alexander Dugin?

    Chris,

    One has to admire Glenn Beck for realizing that he was a hate monger and worrying about the amount of hate in America.  He has real wisdom to share now.  He is the one that alerted me to Alexander Dugin on the Charlie Rose show (he talks about Dugin just about 8 minutes into the video. 

    https://charlierose.com/videos/29389

    Ask him what he thinks Dugin and his influence over Putin, Trump, and the Alt Right through Bannon.  Does he think that Trump is Putin and Dugan's puppet like I do?  I sent him a copy of the same two things post about Dugin that I made here.  Here is Dugin's website again.

    https://4threvolutionarywar.wordpress.com/

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Wed, Nov 16, 2016 - 7:50am

    Reply to #32

    davefairtex

    Status Diamond Member (Offline)

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 3131

    terrified of what

    Rector

    We agree on a whole lot of things.  So of course rather than talk about the things we agree on, including the strong tendency to naval-gaze in academia, focusing on differences versus our shared problems, I'll focus on the one area that we don't.  🙂  That's just my way.  Cup half empty, etc. 

    My harshness is an attempt to mock the idea that your "gay, trans, and minority" students should be "terrified".  This is simply absurd.

    "Terrified" of what?  When was the last time a group of straight, "cys" (whatever the f*ck that is), white people went on a rampage to attack such students?  Prevarication aside I bet NONE of them have ever been physically assaulted etc. by "Donald Trump" supporters in their personal experience.  It is an irrational construct born from too much "Queer Studies" and not enough "life".  This focus on the differences that separate us rather than our shared problems IS PART OF THE PROBLEM.  Academia has been the incubator of this phenomenon.

    So Rector.  I agree, the terror isn't of actual experience of DT supporters assaulting them in real life.  But neither is it about coddling or too many Queer Studies classes.

    If some people are attacked often enough in real life by actual random scumbags, and then HRC comes along and scares the pants off everyone saying that DT is Hitler reborn, DT supporters are actually all stormtrooper-wannabees, and they'll start with beatings but then soon it will be off to the camps with all of you, Arbeit Macht Frei, some of the people who have previously been attacked – in real life – will now be terrified.  Its a really normal response.

    Hopefully this HRC-generated fear wave passes soon.  Dec 19th can't come quickly enough.

    https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/key-dates.html

     

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Wed, Nov 16, 2016 - 10:01am

    Reply to #44

    davefairtex

    Status Diamond Member (Offline)

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 3131

    great job Chris

    So I think you did a great job on Glenn Beck's show.  He really does need you.   And I think it will be a total win from the standpoint of the greater PP mission.

    I am minded of the phrase, "when the student is ready, the teacher will appear."

    I am not normally a watcher of the Fox perspective, but this show was delightfully neutral; it showed there were some real things we can all agree on.

    I really do think there's an opportunity for an "economic party" that pulls in in labor from the left and "the deplorables" from the right and ends up dragging the government away from feeding at the trough of crony capitalism the way it has done for decades.

     

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Wed, Nov 16, 2016 - 11:17am

    Reply to #44

    Eannao

    Status Bronze Member (Online)

    Joined: Feb 28 2015

    Posts: 147

    Glenn Beck Show

    Hi Chris,

    congratulations on the great news – get the message out there!

    Is the Glenn Beck show a subscription service? Do you know if they will always post the transcripts on the website?

    Thanks, E.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Wed, Nov 16, 2016 - 1:13pm

    Reply to #44

    Chris Martenson

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 07 2007

    Posts: 4543

    My Mind is reeling

    [quote=davefairtex]

    So I think you did a great job on Glenn Beck's show.  He really does need you.   And I think it will be a total win from the standpoint of the greater PP mission.

    I am minded of the phrase, "when the student is ready, the teacher will appear."

    I am not normally a watcher of the Fox perspective, but this show was delightfully neutral; it showed there were some real things we can all agree on.

    I really do think there's an opportunity for an "economic party" that pulls in in labor from the left and "the deplorables" from the right and ends up dragging the government away from feeding at the trough of crony capitalism the way it has done for decades.

    [/quote]

    Thanks Dave…and without warning, may I abruptly change the conversation?  You shouldn't mind too much because you just posted this same information yesterday.  🙂

    When something really changes the way I think, or suddenly serves to crystallize stray thoughts into a coherent pattern, I get excited.

    Rules for rulers has done that for me.  I will now do something that I have not yet done before, ever to my knowledge, on this site and type in all caps.  Warning, all caps coming!

    EVERYONE NEEDS TO WATCH THIS

    And this:

    Now that I see things along the lines of 'keys to power' and treasure distribution, a lot has come into focus.  I need to wrestle with this a lot longer, because Rules for Rulers is the same thing as the Crash Course…a very short distillation of a lot of careful thinking.

    I am in debt to the people involved who carefully observed, took the time to reduce the ideas into relatable, simple forms, and then shared it via a brilliant, concise video.

    Bravo!  That's a service to humanity.

    I am not sure if the conclusions I am initially drawing make me more or less hopeful about how all this turns out, but at least there's a road map that one can use in all hierarchical human organizations…whihc is all of them (but that's not how things have to be, see also all of the explorations of Tribal as a form of social organization we've been doing of late.)

     At any rate, I'll be expanding and exploring the rules for rulers concepts and implications in future reports; count on it.

    Mtl272…the sorts of preparations you've made have been made by a lot of people here, myself included, and the linkage to the rules for rulers ideas is this; if the treasure cannot be distributed things will get messy.

    We all know this on a deep level and that's why so many people find the Crash Course to be emotionally challenging.  Not because the ideas themselves are difficult – they are actually quite simple – but because the implications are so dire.

    If the death of a Roman emperor was usually a deadly affair for his entire family and closest advisors, then the break down of an exponential system of money is similarly figuratively and/or literally deadly for everyone from the lowest homeowner's association power structure right on up to the nation state.

    See also Venezuela today.

    No, I am not predicting that Mad Max is inevitable, but we all know that it is a possibility.  Rules for rulers is an explanation for why a sudden loss of treasure is a very messy thing for a complex society.  This is why 'they' will fight any and all serious market declines and/or challenges to the dollar's supremacy with tooth and nail.  

    The dollar is how the US distributes treasure to its vassal state keys, and the sub-keys within those states.  Risking the dollar's role is the same thing as a king of old finding his treasury bare of gold.  Bad moment, that.

    So being prepared is the most prudent thing anyone can do because we can all stare at this next chart and conclude that the treasury is already bare of gold (society just hasn't internalized that thought yet).

    So the correct question to be asking is; What sorts of events will happen when this information finally 'gets out there'?

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Wed, Nov 16, 2016 - 1:13pm

    Reply to #32

    Rector

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 07 2010

    Posts: 323

    I get it.

    The left spends a great deal of effort programming their useful idiots to accept certain memes about what will happen when "conservatives" get elected:  an end to abortion on demand, deportation and split of families, etc.  When "conservatives" win, it's natural for some of them to actually believe some of these things will happen, and so they are "terrified".  

    It's irrational because "conservatives" haven't made any substantive changes in decades.  They just play defense to progressive legislation, activism, etc. and are completely captured by the system.

    Rector

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Wed, Nov 16, 2016 - 2:44pm

    Reply to #44

    Quercus bicolor

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Mar 19 2008

    Posts: 190

    I'

    [quote=cmartenson]

    I am not sure if the conclusions I am initially drawing make me more or less hopeful about how all this turns out, but at least there's a road map that one can use in all hierarchical human organizations…whihc is all of them (but that's not how things have to be, see also all of the explorations of Tribal as a form of social organization we've been doing of late.)

    [/quote]

    I'm glad you mentioned tribal as an alternative to "Rules for Rulers", but probably only if societies are organized on a small scale.  Tribal societies had (and in some cases still have) numerous customs and taboos to maintain a much more egalitarian society including sharing of food and other resources, the extension of what we might call family to the entire group and more.  In many ways, we're still wired that way.  That's part of the reason we find the modern world so oppressive. 

    The challenge is to figure out how to make tribalism work in larger groups.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Wed, Nov 16, 2016 - 3:18pm

    #48
    aggrivated

    aggrivated

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Sep 22 2010

    Posts: 441

    Speaking of dynasties

    With the Glen Beck exposure I expect more treasure will be distributed to the IT support key for PP’s dynasty as it grows. All of the citizens of this empire, both keys and people, eat information for survival. What a great problem!

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Wed, Nov 16, 2016 - 3:22pm

    Reply to #45

    newsbuoy

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Dec 10 2013

    Posts: 95

    I still don't understand

    Why is it that Social Security is always included in the "entitlement monster" stories when it is not an entitlement/debt per se? Isn't it a trust into which citizens and illegals alike all must put money in exchange for a check back to us citizens in our elder years? Doesn't it exaggerate the debt numbers rather than provide clarity. Does the chart include the $12 billion/yr contribution by undocumented workers that Pres-T wants to deport and is never collected? Or do the politicians hide that from us so they can account for it in more creative ways.

    And, of course, libertarians and alt-right-wing-neo-con-fascists are some-day-soon going to find some backbone and start returning granny's ssi and disability checks, cuz it's socialistic, right? or do they have to wait until the gov-a-ment tells them to? 

    Speaking of toilet tissue, I have a years supply of tush wipes in my stash because they're more sanitary and rolls of t-tissue are fragile in the rain. And who doesn't want to come back into the house smelling like roses?

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Wed, Nov 16, 2016 - 3:34pm

    Reply to #44
    aggrivated

    aggrivated

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Sep 22 2010

    Posts: 441

    The primary treasure

    for all sizes of people organizations is energy! Small excess=tribe. Big excess=kingdom. Great excess=empire. Unlimited excess=one world government.
    I am therefore in the long run very happy to live in a finite world.

    For now diminishing excess is the cause of our predicaments.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Wed, Nov 16, 2016 - 4:10pm

    Reply to #44

    davefairtex

    Status Diamond Member (Offline)

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 3131

    rules for rulers

    Yes, I felt the same thing when I saw the video.  It is incredibly clean, stripped of all the unnecessary stuff.  I have watched it about half a dozen times since then.  It just gets better.  Stuff just sinks in.

    Its a simple and elegant framework for understanding structures of power.

    So, if you want to effect political change – if you aren't going to rule, then at a minimum, you need to become one of the keys, and you need to make sure you are just as useful in running the place as you were in staging the revolution.

    This really helps me to understand some of my own failures in the past.  I just didn't understand the rules.

    I think there are people in this world who just got this stuff at birth.  I'm not one of them.  🙂

    As you say there are also larger issues about how the dynamics change as the amount of treasure declines.  Falling from "stable democracy" into the "revolution" pit.

    Anyhow.  Glad you found it as compelling as I did.  Best Video Ever.

    CGP Grey has also done one on BRExit.  Worth watching, but not nearly as fundamental.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3_I2rfApYk

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Wed, Nov 16, 2016 - 5:01pm

    Reply to #44

    nickbert

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2009

    Posts: 260

    Re: Rules for Rulers

    Wow, I happened to stumble on that video only last week, seeing it as an associated video after playing the earlier CGP Grey video "Humans Need Not Apply" (also very highly recommended) as part of my son's homeschooling.  The best video I've seen this year.  This weekend I plan to binge on the remainder of the CGP Grey videos.  This guy would make an interesting podcast guest….

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Wed, Nov 16, 2016 - 5:27pm

    #49

    Snydeman

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 06 2013

    Posts: 486

    Oh good lord.

    Did Chris just use ALL CAPS? In a post? Now I am certain that the end days are upon us! 😉

     

    Seriously, that's a good set of movies. I may even incorporate this into class somehow if I can find the right place. Very poignant to current events. Thanks!

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Wed, Nov 16, 2016 - 6:02pm

    #50

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Don't you dare

    McCain to Trump: Don't You Dare Make Peace with Russia! (Ron Paul Institute)

    [quote]In a blistering statement he released today responding to the Trump/Putin telephone call, Sen. McCain condemned any efforts by President-elect Trump to find common ground with Putin.

    Any claim by Putin that he wants to improve relations with the US must be vigorously opposed, writes McCain. He explains:

        We should place as much faith in such statements as any other made by a former KGB agent who has plunged his country into tyranny, murdered his political opponents, invaded his neighbors, threatened America’s allies, and attempted to undermine America’s elections.[/quote]

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Wed, Nov 16, 2016 - 6:43pm

    #51

    sand_puppy

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 1876

    Rules for Rulers: Role of Propaganda?

    I just watched it again.  Very powerful.  Makes a lot of things clear.

    One piece I hear missing though is the role of propaganda.

    1.  How does a candidate hold the public image of "a defender of women's rights" when that person's team directly caused the deaths of 500,000 women (in the MENA region) and shifted industry to the third world plunging inner city families into food and housing insecurity?

    2.  How do we convince a civilian population with a declining standard of living that "everything is fine" and "the recovery is wonderful?" 

    3.  How do we bomb far away cities killing tens and hundreds of thousands and make our citizens believe that we are doing it for humanitarian reasons?  (Humanitarian meaning for the love and betterment of humans.)  Or that our bombing is to protect the people from "that monster Assad,"  or for noble reasons like "defending America" and "spreading democracy."

    What happens to public discourse when the avenues of communication are controlled by one block with a common goal.  NYT, WSJ, Google, Facebook, Twitter.

    Propaganda is the organized, scientific application of social sciences to deceive.  Propaganda is conscious, deliberate, organized, skillful LYING

    Propaganda is the activity of psychopaths towards those it DOES NOT CARE ABOUT.

    [Most of the deceptions listed above use the blind spots inherent in the GREEN Meme worldview/thought-structure.  Maybe the question should actually be:  how much pain does GREEN need to understand the limits of this world view/gestalt–a move that begins to create YELLOW thinking.]

     

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Wed, Nov 16, 2016 - 8:37pm

    #52

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    If-Then

    As the Limits to Growth set in and the pool of "treasure" shrinks, we should probably not be surprised to see more of this.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Wed, Nov 16, 2016 - 10:40pm

    Reply to #45

    Chris Martenson

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 07 2007

    Posts: 4543

    Social Security is Not a Trust Fund

    [quote=cello55]

    Why is it that Social Security is always included in the "entitlement monster" stories when it is not an entitlement/debt per se? Isn't it a trust into which citizens and illegals alike all must put money in exchange for a check back to us citizens in our elder years? Doesn't it exaggerate the debt numbers rather than provide clarity. Does the chart include the $12 billion/yr contribution by undocumented workers that Pres-T wants to deport and is never collected? Or do the politicians hide that from us so they can account for it in more creative ways.

    [/quote]

    The answer to your question is, of course, that the Social Security system is not a "trust" in the sense that it's a place where money is put and retained for the future benefit of the enrolled members.

    It's a place where money is placed and then spent by the government on current retirees and general obligation funding.  By which I mean it is spent.

    When it's spent, the US Treasury has the good graces to at least replace those funds with special US Treasury bonds, which some people mistake for being a real asset.  That is, cash is swapped for debt.  Good deal huh?

    This is the equivalent of you putting money in a savings account, but then spending it…and writing yourself a check for the spent amount and stacking up those checks in the bottom drawer of your desk.  It's just not possible for an organization to borrow from itself, spend those fund, and not be digging a financial hole.

    In other words, there's no trust fund there.  Just a pile of debt from the Treasury.  

    So, yes, the 'entitlement' programs are both badly named and a huge, enormous looming liability.

     

     

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Nov 17, 2016 - 7:59am

    #53
    David Phillips

    David Phillips

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 29 2009

    Posts: 111

    Trump is the American Putin

    Trump is the American Putin

    Einstein Pacifist

     

    Meet Alexander Dugin, Putin’s political advisor and master puppeteer.  The Rasputin behind the fascist movement growing out of Russia, sweeping into Europe in the form of Brexit, and now arriving into America with the election of Trump.

    His broadcast in English here

     

    His broadcast are heard around the world, as he explains what Trump is thinking and what he is going to do next, as if he already knew.  Filling in his listeners who are about to receive the new world order they have been waiting for.  

     

    Read below on how Trump is the American Putin:

    Dugin says that Putin and Trump never hide their fondness of each other and that they had identical goals.

    But considering both ran on the slogan of making things great again, one wonders what their goals for making everything great again might really involves.

     

    Dugin goes on to say that Trump is getting ready to make America great, like Putin made Russia great.

     

    Trump has already followed his first orders from Putin and Dugin.  To call off America’s attack on Russia and putting its immense power into developing its own country, instead of trying to take over the world all of the time.

     

    Dugin declares Trump and Putin are united to his worldwide followers and explains their working arrangements, “Putin style.”

    Simple: discuss differences, achieve common goals jointly.

     

    Now that the liberal globalist are defeated in America, Dugin explains that the next step will be to chase the liberals out of Russia who he thinks are useless.

     

    Dugin hates liberal globalist, he thinks they are a dangerous virus, and is elated that the liberals in the United States are now considered intolerable too.

    Boy, he sure hates liberal globalist.  How do you suppose fascist like him intend to get rid of these intolerable liberals they consider to be a dangerous virus?

     

    Dugin also reveals what Trump has in store for the American dollar.  It’s no longer going to be the world’s reserve currency.  Trump is just interested in it becoming national currency so that Putin can create another currency for trade in Russia China, Turkey, and China.

     

    Trump hasn’t told us yet, but he is a continentalist like Putin, not a globalist like the liberals.

     

    In the end, if he keeps his promises to Russia, he will become the American Putin, eventually in charge of the North American continent.

     

    Dugin proclaims that the conservatives have now won both continents, with Putin in Eurasia and Trump in America.  And they are looking forward to when there aren’t so many liberal globalist around to have to cooperate with, and the conservatives rule.

     

    In closing, Dugin again expresses his optimism now that the globalist elites have lost.

     

    Tells his readers to look at his directive list for more details on what to do next.

     

    Then gleefully signs off,

     

    = = = = =

     

    Meanwhile on air, Dugin is congratulating Alex Jones for his viewership on Infowars suddenly jumping to 20 million since the election.  Trump also called Alex Jones to thank him for his help, saying that he couldn’t have done it without him.

    Click here

     

    Dugin also congratulates his American spokes piece, Alex Jones, whose viewership on Infowars just swelled by 20 million after Trump’s election.

     

    Listen to Alex Jones explain how the media establishment is scum (including Fox News)

    and how he is their new replacement

     

    Now watch Alex Jones rant how the liberals are just begging to be murdered,  like Dugin wants them to be too.

    Click here for one of many Alex Jones rants

     

    So, if you don’t want a crazy gun nut like Alex Jones showing up unexpectedly seeking revenge after Trump gets elected and Bannon releases Dugin’s Alt Right minions to reek havoc, and you suddenly don’t think Trump’s America is so “great” anymore, now that you have discovered what “great” really means.  White, without the liberal globalists around asking for compromises.

     

    Fortunately the founding fathers put a clause in the constitution that delays the vote of the Electoral College until December 18th, in case it was discovered that someone was about to betray the country.  We need a nation wide campaign to appeal to the members of the Electoral College to vote no for Donald Trump, before he destroys the United States of America and replaces it with Trump America .

     

    To stop these Dugin/Alex Jones apocalyptically driven gun nuts from finally getting their day,  urge all members of the Electoral College to vote no for Donald Trump on December 18th!

     

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Nov 17, 2016 - 2:25pm

    #54

    Snydeman

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 06 2013

    Posts: 486

    Trump's first meeting with an international leader...

    …and he chooses Shinzo Abe of Japan (Source). Didn't PP run an article a while back about how Abe may be involved in a secret and fairly extreme Japanese nationalist and ultra-conservative group? Either way, it's an interesting choice of a first meeting, and should provide some clues as to how entrenched Trump will be in his core campaign promises regarding making Japan pay for the U.S. military umbrella. Ultimately, though, if the stories about Abe are indeed true, wouldn't he would love nothing more than to use the withdrawal of US military support as an excuse to re-militarize Japan and allow it to change its constitutional limitation on the deployment of Japanese troops outside the Japanese home islands? If this comes to pass, it raises the chances of military confrontations in east Asia rather than lessens them. I get the argument of forcing our allies to shoulder more of their burden and I agree with the notion that we can no longer be the world's police or shield, but I also think these policies could have some equally destabilizing unintended consequences as "messing" with Russia would.

     

    While we here at PP have focused on the threat that a war with Russia poses, let us not forget that armed conflict with China would also be less than desirable. I don't much care what nationality the nukes falling on my homeland belong to…I just want to avoid having any nukes fall anywhere.

     

    I fully admit I may be over-reacting to this, or seeing bogeymen where there are none. My fight-or-flight instincts are in full-alarm mode these days – still not sure why – so I'm relying on cooler heads here at PP.

     

    Thoughts?

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Nov 17, 2016 - 3:31pm

    #55

    sand_puppy

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 1876

    David Phillips: Where is this coming from?

    Where are you getting these presentations?

    What do YOU want? 

    What do you value? 

    How would YOU like to see history proceed from this point?

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Nov 17, 2016 - 3:43pm

    #56

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    Clapper's out

    US Spy Chief James Clapper Resigns; Trump To Fill Vacancy (Zerohedge)

    [quote]Clapper has long promised to leave his job at the end of President Obama’s term in office, so his resignation was expected. Still, the formal resignation brings the longtime intelligence official’s government career to a close and leaves a key vacancy for Trump to fill.

    Clapper took the helm overseeing 17 intelligence agencies in 2010, and served throughout the majority of Obama’s presidency. His tenure was marked by the revelations of Edward Snowden, whose leaks about U.S. intelligence shook up the community like nothing in a generation.[/quote]

    Clearly no relation to the 17 agencies that held Russia to blame for hacking the DNC…

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Nov 17, 2016 - 3:49pm

    Reply to #55

    Snydeman

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 06 2013

    Posts: 486

    sand_puppy wrote:Where are

    [quote=sand_puppy]

    Where are you getting these presentations?

    What do YOU want? 

    What do you value? 

    How would YOU like to see history proceed from this point?

    [/quote]

    Sand_puppy, good questions. I wonder if they will respond, or abscond.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Nov 17, 2016 - 3:51pm

    Reply to #55

    Time2help

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2230

    What he said, he already said.

    [quote=sand_puppy]

    What do YOU want? 

    What do you value? 

    How would YOU like to see history proceed from this point?

    [/quote]

    Probably something along these lines…

    [quote=David Phillips]…urge all members of the Electoral College to vote no for Donald Trump on December 18th![/quote]

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Nov 17, 2016 - 3:57pm

    Reply to #55

    Snydeman

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 06 2013

    Posts: 486

    Time2help wrote:sand_puppy

    [quote=Time2help]

    [quote=sand_puppy]

    What do YOU want? 

    What do you value? 

    How would YOU like to see history proceed from this point?

    [/quote]

    Probably something along these lines…

    [quote=David Phillips]…urge all members of the Electoral College to vote no for Donald Trump on December 18th![/quote]

    [/quote]

    How does one contact an elector? Is there a directory somewhere? 

     

    Oh, how fun would things be if the Electoral College actually overturned election results? Dancing in the streets, for sure, only with guns and less dancing.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Nov 17, 2016 - 5:43pm

    Reply to #56

    thc0655

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 27 2010

    Posts: 1446

    Clapper for prison

    Clapper's on my list for prison (along with Hilllary) once the new Attorney General gets his/her office supplies and family pictures unpacked in DC.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Nov 17, 2016 - 5:47pm

    Reply to #55

    thc0655

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 27 2010

    Posts: 1446

    Things would get frisky

    How about this as a likely scenario (one of several):

    https://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2012/09/11/what-i-saw-at-the-coup/

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Nov 17, 2016 - 6:24pm

    Reply to #55

    thc0655

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 27 2010

    Posts: 1446

    Things would get frisky

    dup.

     

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Nov 17, 2016 - 6:55pm

    Reply to #55

    Chris Martenson

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 07 2007

    Posts: 4543

    Hard to *not* see the pattern here

    [quote=thc0655]

    How about this as a likely scenario (one of several):

    https://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2012/09/11/what-i-saw-at-the-coup/

    [/quote]

    Pursuant to your tale posted above, which was interesting by the way, plausible…it's hard to see this next news story as not fitting in to that tale of government overreach and hubris:

    The UK has just passed a massive expansion in surveillance powers, which critics have called "terrifying" and "dangerous."

    The new law, dubbed the "snoopers' charter," was introduced by then-home secretary Theresa May in 2012, and took two attempts to get passed into law following breakdowns in the previous coalition government.

    Four years and a general election later — May is now prime minister — the bill was finalized and passed on Wednesday by both parliamentary houses. Civil liberties groups have long criticized the bill, with some arguing that the law will let the UK government "document everything we do online."

    It's no wonder, because it basically does. The law will force internet providers to record every internet customer's top-level web history in real-time for up to a year, which can be accessed by numerous government departments; force companies to decrypt data on demand — though the government has never been that clear on exactly how it forces foreign firms to do that that; and even disclose any new security features in products before they launch.

    Not only that, the law also gives the intelligence agencies the power to hack into computers and devices of citizens (known as equipment interference), although some protected professions — such as journalists and medical staff — are layered with marginally better protections. In other words, it's the "most extreme surveillance law ever passed in a democracy," according to Jim Killock, director of the Open Rights Group.

    (Source

    This is not a fantasy tale by some novelist, this is reality.  You might ask yourself just how the UK slipped this far down this rabbit hole,. but you'd be better pressed to ask how long it is before your own country joins them.  This is the direction of the Deep State.

    This is what Trump should combat if he's to have any sort of real impact at all.  But I rather doubt he will or can.  

    At any rate, the UK has just voted Stasi-like powers to its security apparatus (not that they didn't already have it, now it's just 'legal').

     

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Nov 17, 2016 - 7:06pm

    Reply to #56

    Snydeman

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 06 2013

    Posts: 486

    See, this...

    [quote=thc0655]

    Clapper's on my list for prison (along with Hilllary) once the new Attorney General gets his/her office supplies and family pictures unpacked in DC.

    [/quote]

    You can't clean house by doing only half the rooms. 

     

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Nov 17, 2016 - 7:21pm

    Reply to #55

    Snydeman

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 06 2013

    Posts: 486

    Wait, what?

    [quote=thc0655]

    How about this as a likely scenario (one of several):

    https://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2012/09/11/what-i-saw-at-the-coup/

    [/quote]

    We're taking "Short-fuse fiction" and commenting on its plausibility now? From a site sporting a confederate flag and confederate soldier as the prevailing images that greet you upon arrival? 

     

    I'm open to seeing things from multiple points of view, but that seems to diverge from PP's adherence to provable facts. It's a freaking fictional story.

     

    Now the article Chris posted, that's terrifying. And verifiable.

     

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-35689432

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/17/mass-surveillance-social-media-permitted-uk-law-charles-farr

    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/lbill/2016-2017/0066/17066.pdf

     

     

     

     

     

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Nov 17, 2016 - 7:30pm

    #57
    aggrivated

    aggrivated

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Sep 22 2010

    Posts: 441

    internet freedoms rated.

    I would like to see some more specifics on where this new law puts the UK (or should I just say England and Wales?). I do know that Iceland and Estonia are #1 and #2 on the chart. The good ole USofA is nearer the bottom than the top of the freedom listing.

    https://freedomhouse.org/report-types/freedom-net

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Nov 17, 2016 - 7:42pm

    #58
    aggrivated

    aggrivated

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Sep 22 2010

    Posts: 441

    Comparing Russia to USA???

    Too much hype in that comparison. I know some Russians and also Americans who have lived in Russia. The Russians like a really strong leader and have a huge sense of nationalism. I don't know many Americans who are like that. Most are happy with a bold leader who manages to keep the government out of their business as much as possible. 

    As for Trump being like Putin–Trump is the most like an elephant in the room of any Republican I have ever seen. Putin is more like a big cat. You see him when he shows up but you are clueless of how he got there. I don't see Trump sneaking up on America.   We should have plenty of time to pitch whatever kind of hissy fit is needed to ward off a crazy plan he might have.  Congress is by nature more weasely. 

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Nov 17, 2016 - 7:42pm

    #59
    aggrivated

    aggrivated

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Sep 22 2010

    Posts: 441

    Comparing Russia to USA???

    Too much hype in that comparison. I know some Russians and also Americans who have lived in Russia. The Russians like a really strong leader and have a huge sense of nationalism. I don't know many Americans who are like that. Most are happy with a bold leader who manages to keep the government out of their business as much as possible. 

    As for Trump being like Putin–Trump is the most like an elephant in the room of any Republican I have ever seen. Putin is more like a big cat. You see him when he shows up but you are clueless of how he got there. I don't see Trump sneaking up on America.   We should have plenty of time to pitch whatever kind of hissy fit is needed to ward off a crazy plan he might have.  Congress is by nature more weasely. 

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Nov 17, 2016 - 8:39pm

    #60

    sand_puppy

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 1876

    Senario Planning and Fiction

    I find that fiction is an awesome way to imagine how things might go.

    Really good stories involve a bright intuitive author reading the currents and imagining into a possible future.  It lets us "live into" various scenarios.  We learn.

    It is like studying the openings of the great chess matches. Ten moves past the opening, you and a fellow chess club member sit down to continue the game.

    Especially helpful are stories of people and factions that are very different from us.  They let us walk in the shoes of different personality types and see the world from their angle.  Since some of your neighbors undoubtedly DO see the world in that way, it might be good to know how they work.

    How does the RED Meme warlord work?  What strategies and words might he use?  Should you consider an alliance with him?  How stable might an alliance be?

    How will the various BLUE Meme ethnocentric groups act.  What will they "see" when they look at you?  A valuable human being or a cockroach?

    The disaster capitalist ORANGE crowd.  How will they try to make the most of collapse and get rich off the situation.  Will they employ RED Meme hitmen, agent provacateurs, arsonists, etc.  Will a system of slavery be developed?  Or economic slavery (CHS's neofeudal serfdom)?

    GREEN tends to "see the good" in people and believes (mistakenly) that ALL others feel and think the same way.  This is awesome when it comes to establishing trust and neighborhood teamwork.  But GREEN says:  "I refuse to believe that anyone would do such a terrible thing!"  As a result, GREEN completely misunderstands his sociopathic (4% of population) and psychopathic (1%) brethren.

    Getting out of a city in collapse.  (Anyone who lives in a big city needs to read this story!)  Living in the mountains and woods during a collapse.  The suburbs.  and here.  Reading a novel or two breaks this open.  It is all in the stories.

     

     

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Nov 17, 2016 - 10:02pm

    #61

    sand_puppy

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 1876

    CAF Discusses Scenario Planning Tonight

    “There was an old sailor who offered me the line, “the sea lies in wait for the unwary, but she stalks the reckless.” It’s reckless not to be prepared – not to know what the commitment is to deliver on what you say.” ~Eric Best

    By Catherine Austin Fitts

    Scenario thinking is a form of strategic planning that creates stories about the future, called scenarios, to simulate and to test with adaptations.  … Each year in the Solari Report Annual Wrap Up, I use four scenarios to describe the outlook for the global economy. I apply probabilities to them to help me allocate investments of both time and money and to look for opportunities in the unexpected.

    Instead of our listening to experts predicting our futures, I recommend we invest time in preparing to emerge into our multiple futures, even to invent our futures.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Nov 17, 2016 - 10:09pm

    Reply to #55

    New_Life

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 18 2011

    Posts: 185

    Price of "Freedom"

    From speaking to someone who knows a high up member of the security services, they are working night and day to prevent another atrocity in a UK major city, many such plots are foiled and the web traffic is used to convict them.  A crazy far right nutter killed a peace loving member of parliament earlier this year, its a real shame such powers couldn't of stopped such a horrible tragedy. 

     http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38012499

    Yes the bill is wide ranging and powerful, yes it doesn't make me feel comfortable, call me naive, but I'm resigned to it being necessary for fighting terrorism in the world we sadly now live in.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Nov 17, 2016 - 10:27pm

    Reply to #55

    Chris Martenson

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 07 2007

    Posts: 4543

    Humans are humans

    [quote=ScubaRoo]

    From speaking to someone who knows a high up member of the security services, they are working night and day to prevent another atrocity in a UK major city, many such plots are foiled and the web traffic is used to convict them.  A crazy far right nutter killed a peace loving member of parliament earlier this year, its a real shame such powers couldn't of stopped such a horrible tragedy. 

     http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38012499

    Yes the bill is wide ranging and powerful, yes it doesn't make me feel comfortable, call me naive, but I'm resigned to it being necessary for fighting terrorism in the world we sadly now live in.

    [/quote]

    …and i would feel better if such laws came with attached provisions outlining especially harsh laws if/when the act is misused to abuse an innocent person, exact revenge against a rival or ex-partner, or for purely political aims or gains.

    You know, because humans are humans.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Nov 17, 2016 - 10:45pm

    #62

    mememonkey

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Nov 01 2009

    Posts: 100

    Playing for Keeps

    If there is any doubt about the mainstream media's and their controlling interests intentions, this week has shown they are not going quietly into the night.  Beyond the initiatives to begin internet censoring of "Fake News" sites which all happen to have a conservative pro trump POV and in addition to doubling down on the false narratives legitimizing the Snowflake Revolution against the "New Hitler" Trump,   we now see the following transparent attempt to trigger some impassioned nutjob to assassinate Trump. 

    The rational here was the talking point about the importance of the Press always having access to (not being ditched by) the the President elect.  and the example …. the Hinckley assassination attempt of Reagan.  Makes for a great visual as the talking heads yammer on about Trump.

     

    They are playing with fire.   I don't see this ending well.

     

    Where I have I seen this before??   Wasn't this attempted with the Prime minister of Malaysia?

     

     

    Disclaimer Notice: this second video is a fictional scenario  Despite the uncanny parallels to CNN  m.o.

    mememonkey

     

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Nov 17, 2016 - 11:06pm

    Reply to #55

    New_Life

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 18 2011

    Posts: 185

    Further views here

    Chris

    You might find this a good read (inc. the comments)

      https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/30/government-data-collection-citizens-acceptance-global-rights-privacy-free-speech

    referenced from the comments to the article above

     

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/entries/3662a707-0af9-3149-963f-47bea720b460

     

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Nov 17, 2016 - 11:10pm

    Reply to #60

    Snydeman

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 06 2013

    Posts: 486

    sand_puppy wrote:I find that

    [quote=sand_puppy]

    I find that fiction is an awesome way to imagine how things might go.

    Really good stories involve a bright intuitive author reading the currents and imagining into a possible future.  It lets us "live into" various scenarios.  We learn.

    [/quote]

    This is true, and I'm not saying there isn't value in reading such stories. However, the danger in reading into potential future outcomes too deeply from fictional accounts is that sometimes a person can react as if a scenario is unfolding as they imagined just because of one or two coincidental similarities with the fictional story that they've read. Like imagining an argument between you and a loved one, the danger is that you'll hear your loved one say something that is remotely on the pre-imagined "script" in your mind, and begin filling in blanks with incorrect responses before you can be certain things are actually playing out as you imagined they would play out. To use your chess example, sometimes playing out the moves too many times in your head means you can be duped into ignoring the real situation playing out on the board and be led into checkmate.

     

    I'm also not saying I won't read these kinds of posts and stories – seeing how other people see things is helpful for many of the reasons you stated – but rather that I won't put actual value on them until evidence shows that things truly are coming to pass exactly as laid out. And, yes, I'll admit that if I waltz into a website that sports several confederate icons, I'm already going to be on guard for certain biases. But I'll still read it, recognizing it for what it is.

     

    Plus, in the era of "fake news" and "biased news," many citizens seem to be falling into the trap of believing everything they read, as well as everything they think. So, yeah. We need to be on guard here against that.

     

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Nov 17, 2016 - 11:14pm

    Reply to #62

    Snydeman

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 06 2013

    Posts: 486

    mememonkey wrote:They are

    [quote=mememonkey]

    They are playing with fire.   I don't see this ending well.

    mememonkey

    [/quote]

    Well, if its any consolation, I'm having trouble seeing any way any of this can play out well. I would have said the same thing had Clinton won, though.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Nov 17, 2016 - 11:16pm

    Reply to #55

    Rector

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 07 2010

    Posts: 323

    Meh. I thought it was well written

    I too was shocked, shocked, to see a confederate flag!  The horror. . .

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Nov 17, 2016 - 11:17pm

    Reply to #55
    Tim Ladson

    Tim Ladson

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Sep 22 2012

    Posts: 16

    Themes

    Tom,

    A great addition to the range of possible scenarios. I agree with s_p, it makes us contemplate the unthinkable and thus widens our understanding of how some other people think.

    Forewarned is forearmed.

    "May the odds be ever in your favor".

    Tim.    

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Nov 17, 2016 - 11:48pm

    #63

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    Terrorists

    A paratrooper is a profession. It is not a philosophy.

    A mortarman is a profession. It is not a philosophy.

    A terrorist is a profession.  It is not a philosophy. 

    He has an objective and he approaches his task professionally. His objective is to terrorize the Civilian population.

    His allies are the press and round-eyed innocents. He gets good grades if he can reduce the population to a quivering huddle of sheep corralled into a corner with the minimum amount of blood loss and expense. But good grades are a secondary consideration, it takes what it takes. 

    Note. The emotionally fragile youth are a big plus. A cardboard cut out of Donald and a loud noise should do the trick.

    He has only a minimal interest in the "whys and what-fors". All that is beyond his payscale. His bosses would consider such questioning to be grounds for fireing. (Ask me how I know.)

    It would appear that terrorists have achieved all their objectives in the West. Any sign of bravery by the sheep would be met with more terrorism. And the hyperventilating media would there to help.

    Appear afraid, but keep your own council. 

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Thu, Nov 17, 2016 - 11:58pm

    Reply to #55

    Snydeman

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 06 2013

    Posts: 486

    Rector wrote:I too was

    [quote=Rector]

    I too was shocked, shocked, to see a confederate flag!  The horror. . .

    [/quote]

    I didn't say "shocked," nor imply it, but if you wish to put words into my mouth you may. I take the aggregate of symbols, such as the confederate soldier and flag (and other images and icons on a site) and I can start to construct a general understanding of its likely bias. I am shocked, however, if we are starting to take "fictional accounts" and positing them as likely or probable truths and outcomes here at Peak Prosperity. A dangerous mind-game, that is.

     

    As for the confederate flag itself, I'm not fond of it, mostly because lots of people like to mistakenly claim it as a symbol of a fight for states-rights while denying it also stood for a system that enslaved other humans (and, I might add, impoverished many poor white southern farmers- ironic, that). I get it as a symbol of standing up against authority and all, but I'd hope we could find something to represent that same ideal without all of the other baggage that comes with it. It's well within their rights to have whatever symbolism they wish to have on their site, of course, but I also find it helpful to use such obvious symbolism as a sign of the probable bias I will find there. I am occasionally surprised and incorrect in my assumptions, but not often.

     

    Oh, and I also take issue with people not realizing it wasn't the official confederate flag at the outset of the conflict (I want to say it was adopted in late '63, but don't quote me on that exact date) but that's just my historian being a nit-picker.

     

    -Snydeman

     

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Fri, Nov 18, 2016 - 12:54am

    Reply to #55

    Chris Martenson

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 07 2007

    Posts: 4543

    On the iomportance of being precise.

    [quote=Snydeman]

    [quote=Rector]

    I too was shocked, shocked, to see a confederate flag!  The horror. . .

    [/quote]

    (…)

    I am shocked, however, if we are starting to take "fictional accounts" and positing them as likely or probable truths and outcomes here at Peak Prosperity. A dangerous mind-game, that is.

    (…)

    [/quote]

    I said plausible, as in that being a reasonable or valid explanation of the way power and covert operations are run.  I likes how the story noted the levers of power and articulated each of the keys to power in its telling.  The media, the judicial, military and enforcement keys were all included.

    That makes a better plot than when someone leaves out obvious keys and doesn't explain where they are or what they are up to.  It's a plot hole.

    Example of the use of plausible:  It's plausible that we might someday have a Native American President.

    Or, that plot is plausible.

    In these cases it means believable, but says nothing of the outcomes being probable or likely, and in the case of a plot line of a fictional story nothing about truth is ever really implied.  .  

    I'm not aware of anyone posting that story as likely or probable truths.

    Let me know if I missed something.   

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Fri, Nov 18, 2016 - 1:11am

    Reply to #55

    Snydeman

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 06 2013

    Posts: 486

    cmartenson wrote:I said

    [quote=cmartenson]

    I said plausible, as in that being a reasonable or valid explanation of the way power and covert operations are run.  I likes how the story noted the levers of power and articulated each of the keys to power in its telling.  The media, the judicial, military and enforcement keys were all included.

    That makes a better plot than when someone leaves out obvious keys and doesn't explain where they are or what they are up to.  It's a plot hole.

    Example of the use of plausible:  It's plausible that we might someday have a Native American President.

    Or, that plot is plausible.

    In these cases it means believable, but says nothing of the outcomes being probable or likely, and in the case of a plot line of a fictional story nothing about truth is ever really implied.  .  

    I'm not aware of anyone posting that story as likely or probable truths.

    Let me know if I missed something.   

    [/quote]

    A very valid and critical distinction, and although I wasn't referring merely to what you were saying when I was responding – I sensed the flow of the conversation was lending too much credibility to what was a fictional account – I may have just as easily read too far into what you and others were saying. I sense a ground swell of far right support emerging in my society overall, but whether this is truly happening, is just mainstream media trying to bend me to this conclusion, or is me just suffering from flight/fight overload, I can't say. Either way, I didn't catch the essence of what you were saying because I missed the context of the word plausible as you meant it, and probably put words in your mouth you weren't saying. Mea culpa. I've been on this site and seen what you've said long enough to know better.

     

    I think I need to unplug for a few weeks, tickle my kids, and go dig in the dirt in my garden. I'm too scared and I need to regain some semblance of balance and level-headedness.

     

    Someone poke me when Daniel Quinn comes on.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Fri, Nov 18, 2016 - 2:30am

    Reply to #55

    Locksmithuk

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Dec 19 2011

    Posts: 94

    "Necessary" is unnecessary

     

    [quote=ScubaRoo]

     

    Yes the bill is wide ranging and powerful, yes it doesn't make me feel comfortable, call me naive, but I'm resigned to it being necessary for fighting terrorism in the world we sadly now live in.

    [/quote]

     

    Far, far, far too little public debate is encouraged or condoned about WHY "terrorism" exists, and who the real "terrorists" are. I use quotation marks in the same way that Chris often does when he talks about "markets". 

     

    The point where we start examining & debating this issue – I mean REALLY examining it – and we stop assuming that the preference of others living in faraway dusty Arab places is to harm us should be the point at which every Western citizen stops in his/her tracks.

     

    I can't see that that debate will ever be anything but taboo whilst the likes of CNN & ABC still pollute the airwaves, whipping up the public's support for militaristic bullying. There are few better examples of this reticence than the physically wary demeanour of the magnificent Louis CK in the following clip. View it from the start for the best context, but the crux of my point is to be found at the 1:40 mark. Watch his wariness shortly afterwards. I suggest that he knows the answer to the terrorism question, and it's a pity that there aren't more like him.

     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFwBH2fb2E0

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Fri, Nov 18, 2016 - 3:20am

    Reply to #55
    MarkM

    MarkM

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jul 22 2008

    Posts: 349

    locksmithuk wrote:ScubaRoo

    [quote=locksmithuk]

     

    [quote=ScubaRoo]

     

    Yes the bill is wide ranging and powerful, yes it doesn't make me feel comfortable, call me naive, but I'm resigned to it being necessary for fighting terrorism in the world we sadly now live in.

    [/quote]

     

    Far, far, far too little public debate is encouraged or condoned about WHY "terrorism" exists, and who the real "terrorists" are. I use quotation marks in the same way that Chris often does when he talks about "markets". 

     

    The point where we start examining & debating this issue – I mean REALLY examining it – and we stop assuming that the preference of others living in faraway dusty Arab places is to harm us should be the point at which every Western citizen stops in his/her tracks.

     

    I can't see that that debate will ever be anything but taboo whilst the likes of CNN & ABC still pollute the airwaves, whipping up the public's support for militaristic bullying. There are few better examples of this reticence than the physically wary demeanour of the magnificent Louis CK in the following clip. View it from the start for the best context, but the crux of my point is to be found at the 1:40 mark. Watch his wariness shortly afterwards. I suggest that he knows the answer to the terrorism question, and it's a pity that there aren't more like him.

     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFwBH2fb2E0

    [/quote]

    But maybe….there are reasons other than the ones we are force fed by the mainstream media. Nah, of course not.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Fri, Nov 18, 2016 - 3:28am

    Reply to #55

    Rector

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 07 2010

    Posts: 323

    Pass on this tip

    Another way to manage "terrorism" in the UK is to STOP trying to change the demographics of the country at a 10% per year clip through immigration from the ME.  If you import enough people from of different culture into your country – you will get the environment they were running from.  Since this is so obvious, the current situation in the UK has been designed.  They are dead men walking.

    Rector

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Fri, Nov 18, 2016 - 3:29am

    Reply to #55
    MarkM

    MarkM

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jul 22 2008

    Posts: 349

    cmartenson wrote:thc0655

    [quote=cmartenson]

    [quote=thc0655]

    How about this as a likely scenario (one of several):

    https://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2012/09/11/what-i-saw-at-the-coup/

    [/quote]

    Pursuant to your tale posted above, which was interesting by the way, plausible…it's hard to see this next news story as not fitting in to that tale of government overreach and hubris:

    The UK has just passed a massive expansion in surveillance powers, which critics have called "terrifying" and "dangerous."

    The new law, dubbed the "snoopers' charter," was introduced by then-home secretary Theresa May in 2012, and took two attempts to get passed into law following breakdowns in the previous coalition government.

    Four years and a general election later — May is now prime minister — the bill was finalized and passed on Wednesday by both parliamentary houses. Civil liberties groups have long criticized the bill, with some arguing that the law will let the UK government "document everything we do online."

    It's no wonder, because it basically does. The law will force internet providers to record every internet customer's top-level web history in real-time for up to a year, which can be accessed by numerous government departments; force companies to decrypt data on demand — though the government has never been that clear on exactly how it forces foreign firms to do that that; and even disclose any new security features in products before they launch.

    Not only that, the law also gives the intelligence agencies the power to hack into computers and devices of citizens (known as equipment interference), although some protected professions — such as journalists and medical staff — are layered with marginally better protections. In other words, it's the "most extreme surveillance law ever passed in a democracy," according to Jim Killock, director of the Open Rights Group.

    (Source

    This is not a fantasy tale by some novelist, this is reality.  You might ask yourself just how the UK slipped this far down this rabbit hole,. but you'd be better pressed to ask how long it is before your own country joins them.  This is the direction of the Deep State.

    This is what Trump should combat if he's to have any sort of real impact at all.  But I rather doubt he will or can.  

    At any rate, the UK has just voted Stasi-like powers to its security apparatus (not that they didn't already have it, now it's just 'legal').

     

    [/quote]

    The thin end of the wedge was inserted some time ago. The hammer strikes will continue.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Fri, Nov 18, 2016 - 7:15am

    Reply to #55

    Arthur Robey

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 03 2010

    Posts: 1814

    An Examination of Values.

    a Native American President.

    Now there is something that aligns with my values.

    It is interesting, don't you think, that this has not happened?

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Fri, Nov 18, 2016 - 7:39am

    Reply to #55

    Locksmithuk

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Dec 19 2011

    Posts: 94

    locksmithuk wrote:ScubaRoo

    [quote=locksmithuk]

     

    [quote=ScubaRoo]

     

    Yes the bill is wide ranging and powerful, yes it doesn't make me feel comfortable, call me naive, but I'm resigned to it being necessary for fighting terrorism in the world we sadly now live in.

    [/quote]

     

    Far, far, far too little public debate is encouraged or condoned about WHY "terrorism" exists, and who the real "terrorists" are. I use quotation marks in the same way that Chris often does when he talks about "markets". 

     

    The point where we start examining & debating this issue – I mean REALLY examining it – and we stop assuming that the preference of others living in faraway dusty Arab places is to harm us should be the point at which every Western citizen stops in his/her tracks.

     

    I can't see that that debate will ever be anything but taboo whilst the likes of CNN & ABC still pollute the airwaves, whipping up the public's support for militaristic bullying. There are few better examples of this reticence than the physically wary demeanour of the magnificent Louis CK in the following clip. View it from the start for the best context, but the crux of my point is to be found at the 1:40 mark. Watch his wariness shortly afterwards. I suggest that he knows the answer to the terrorism question, and it's a pity that there aren't more like him.

     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFwBH2fb2E0

    [/quote]

     

    Oops, I meant "… at the 2.12 mark. Watch his wariness shortly afterwards".

     

    My reading skills are obviously not what they used to be.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Fri, Nov 18, 2016 - 11:05am

    Reply to #53
    David Phillips

    David Phillips

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 29 2009

    Posts: 111

    Connecting the dots: Trump - Putin - Dugin - Alt Right

    Sorry to be bothersome.  Once I discovered the influence Putin and his political advisor Dugin have over Donald Trump I felt that I needed to make people aware of what is really going on, as opposed to what we are being told as Trump keeps us guessing.

     

    It's easy to see for yourself once you start looking at the Russian CNN, RT News.

    https://www.rt.com/news/

    It shows the real news that the rest of the world sees, not the misinformation campaign that the people in the US have been feed for decades.  

     

    I was watching one show where they were making fun of the American news and that the American were getting ready to discover just how misled they have been.

     

    Here is an interview on RT News with Michael Flynn, Trump's top pick for Intelligence advisor.  

    Click here to watch the 45 minute interview

    • Why is a former US General and Trump's future Intelligence advisor criticising Obama on Russian TV and making deals with Putin, while the Republicans are constantly berating Obama for not being tough enough with Putin on American TV?

    • The conservatives would be screaming treason if a liberal were on Russian TV and openly making deals with Putin.

    • And why is Russian TV so intelligent while American TV is so misleading?  

     

    Check out this RT News article written by Vladimir Putin himself.

    https://www.ft.com/content/033783f2-7a51-11e6-ae24-f193b105145e

     

     
     

    Take a look at RT News story about the Trump and Putin's phone call.

    https://www.rt.com/news/367268-putin-trump-meeting-date/

    What does making “Russia great again” and “America great again” really mean to these people?

    Is it a dog whistle for  "white" again?

     

    The Russians know a lot of things the Americans don't.  The truth isn’t hidden from their people like it is in the United States.  All of these things are openly discussed including the thoughts of Alexander Dugin, Putin's political advisor and leader of the Eurasian fascists movement.  When you start reading through his material it's clear who is calling the shots.

    https://4threvolutionarywar.wordpress.com/

     

    In Dugin's Directives he describes in more detail what is to happen next.  http://katehon.com/directives/donald-trumps-victory

    • Dugin says the unipolar world is about to end and a new multipolar world about to begin.

    • He describes two Americas, a globalist United States of America, and Trump America where there is a resounding no to globalist and liberal ideologies.

    • He calls for the collapse of all news networks and in another piece the Federal Reserve.

    • He reveals who Trump really supports and who he doesn't (Christians).

    • And says that internal strife will reduce America to the same position as everyone else.

     

    In his latest directive "Drain the Swamp" he sets up his next dog whistle, "swamp" which means get rid of globalist.  http://katehon.com/directives/donald-trump-swamp-and-fire

     

    He wants a Nuremberg Trial for liberals and calls for an end to the Federal Reserve so that humanity can return to mercantilism.  

     

    He is calling for a world of fire now, so that a new world can emerge from the ashes with Putin and Trump in two opposite corners of the planet.

     

    Do you see what I am seeing now and that there is need for alarm?  Trump is selling out America and its people to Putin’s growing fascist movement!  We better call him out on it before it's too late and the white supremacists start reeking havoc like Dugin is directing them to do.  If we don't, the United States of America is doomed by the internal strife that Trump promised Bannon, and a new Trump America will emerge.

     

    What kind of promises has Trump made to Bannon?

    Shouldn't Bannon be making promises to Trump?

     

    The American press is just now starting to catch onto Trump’s treachery with the Democratic investigation  http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/17/politics/house-oversight-democrat-investigate-russia/index.html

    We need to help expose how Russia is involved with Trump’s election and what Putin is asking him to do before he voted into office by the Electoral College on December 18th.

     
     

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Fri, Nov 18, 2016 - 11:17am

    Reply to #55
    David Phillips

    David Phillips

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 29 2009

    Posts: 111

    When enough people speak out, especially the Christians.

    It can be stopped when enough people discover what's at stake and speak out.  The electoral college members will hear.  I think the turning point is with the conservative Christians.  Once they discover that they're going to get screwed too, their masses will go after him like a witch hunt.  

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Fri, Nov 18, 2016 - 11:37am

    Reply to #55
    David Phillips

    David Phillips

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 29 2009

    Posts: 111

    From Alexander Dugin's website itself

    The material comes from Alexander Dugin's website itself.  Here is the link, I thought it was in the original post, but evidently not. 

    Dugin’s Guideline – Is Trump the American Putin?

    I simply presented his words in a more elementary fashion that was easier to read and decipher so that more people could catch on to what Dugin is saying.

    I want for people to use their intelligence and goodwill to solve our environmental and economic problems and I don't want Dugin's fascist movement to accomplish it's goal of reducing the human population of liberal globalist so that the conservative can rule without having to cooperate.

    And finally I hope to expose the Trump-Putin-Dugin-Alt Right connections and what they are up to before he is officially confirmed into office with the Electoral College on December 18th.

     

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Fri, Nov 18, 2016 - 4:12pm

    #64
    aggrivated

    aggrivated

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Sep 22 2010

    Posts: 441

    Unipolar or multipolar scenarios?

    The heat from this discussion seems to be emanating from the friction between two expectation biases. A multipolar world is IMHO a much more likely outcome if we are indeed at the edge of Senaca’s cliff. The migration, the cultural offense vs resistance and the leaders each of the factions choose are all symptoms of the underlying problem with peak energy, technology and wealth disparities.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Fri, Nov 18, 2016 - 7:03pm

    #65

    Snydeman

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 06 2013

    Posts: 486

    On another note...

    From a BBC article on the rising dollar, I picked out this gem:

    "European Central Bank chief Mario Draghi has said the eurozone's still shaky recovery remains heavily reliant on the bank's ultra-loose monetary policy.

    "We cannot be sanguine over the economic outlook," he said in a speech at a banking conference in Frankfurt today. 

    Among the factors still threatening the eurozone's growth prospects are geopolitical risks, low inflation and an over-dependence on the ECB's easy money policies, he said. 

    Nonetheless, the bank is "committed to preserving the very substantial degree of monetary accommodation" currently in play – a sign perhaps that it will extend its €80bn a-month bond-buying programme when the governing council next meets on 8 December.

     

     

     

    So, let me get this straight…an obstacle to European economic growth is reliance on central bank easy-money policies, so the solution to bringing growth is to continue the central bank's easy-money policy?

     

    I must be reading that wrong or missing a detail, because to me that makes little sense to me. 

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Fri, Nov 18, 2016 - 7:30pm

    Reply to #55

    SagerXX

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 11 2009

    Posts: 397

    So, subvert the Electoral College...

    …and then what?  HRC?  Disregard the lawsuits and technicalities, it's just not doable.  Unless Civil War V2.0 is your idea of a rollicking good 2017.  

    I don't give much of a damn who your centralized rulers are (libs, conservos, communists, fascists, technocratic moderates), I want out from underneath them all.  I pretty much hang my hat on the desire for decentralization.  Happily, in a lower-energy world, that will be the outcome.  We can choose it, or (more likely) it will be forced upon us, because as a species we tend to plan poorly for these sorts of long-term arrangements/outcomes.  

    So the magic trick is, IMO, to survive the transition and to shepherd as many of my family and chosen tribe (in Hawaii they have the word "ohana") through same.  Hopefully we get to something resembling the other side of the change with some resources and knowledge and social cohesion.  

    All this shrieking about "He's bad" and "She's worse!" is exhausting, and IMO irrelevant.  Like the people bellowing about the electoral college is obsolete and we should retire it and *then* we'll get fair elections for sure!  Never mind Citizens United means money actually guides the outcome, such as it is.  "Reforming" the electoral college is like buying new tires for a car with a ruined transmission.  

    The billionaires are laughing (and probably planted the whole electoral college debate in social media in the first place).

    Get as far out from underneath as you can, y'all.  And I'm (mostly) not talking geography.

    VIVA — Sager

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Fri, Nov 18, 2016 - 8:42pm

    Reply to #55
    aggrivated

    aggrivated

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Sep 22 2010

    Posts: 441

    Our challenge

    First a quote from Piero San Giorgio’s book, ‘Survive the Economic Collapse’: “few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions.” Einstein, Albert (1953)
    SagerXX is seeing all this politics discussion from the ‘essential PP narrative’. Chris often interviews those speaking from a different narrative. We cannot expect them to be persuaded about the core of The Crash Course, but we usually do a good job of sorting out the differences. I, and I expect many on this site, can and do jump narratives so to speak in our dealings with others.

    Our challenge is to also discern these jumps of narrative when posting our thoughts and responses. We wouldn’t be on this site if there wasn’t a common interest in Chris’ and Adam’s perspectives, but we still have an interesting variety of rifs on the theme. For me, this election and our discussion of it has been a wake up call to get both feet in the same boat or I will end up in the water.

    WWIII may be delayed, but there are plenty of other things to focus on to get my house in order.

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sat, Nov 19, 2016 - 8:27am

    Reply to #55

    nickbert

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 14 2009

    Posts: 260

    The UK ALREADY had plenty of domestic surveillance powers

    [quote=ScubaRoo]

    From speaking to someone who knows a high up member of the security services, they are working night and day to prevent another atrocity in a UK major city, many such plots are foiled and the web traffic is used to convict them.  A crazy far right nutter killed a peace loving member of parliament earlier this year, its a real shame such powers couldn't of stopped such a horrible tragedy. 

     http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38012499

    Yes the bill is wide ranging and powerful, yes it doesn't make me feel comfortable, call me naive, but I'm resigned to it being necessary for fighting terrorism in the world we sadly now live in.

    [/quote]

    The UK already has a great deal of leeway and power in regards to domestic surveillance by their intelligence and police services.  Look up the UK's existing RIPA act (which I believe this new bill is replacing or updating), and look at the "Reasons for Use" column in the "Directed Surveillance" row,

    In the interests of national security, for the purpose of preventing or detecting crime or of preventing disorder, in the interests of the economic well-being of the United Kingdom, in the interests of public safety, for the purpose of protecting public health and for the purpose of assessing or collecting any tax, duty, levy or other imposition, contribution or charge payable to a government department.

    and also the "Intrusive Surveillance" row,

    In the interests of national security, for the purpose of preventing or detecting serious crime and in the interests of the economic well-being of the United Kingdom.

    Look how general and widespread those provisions and powers are… it is simply stunning (I wonder how would we Americans feel if the IRS could initiate FBI surveillance on the basis of incorrectly filed or delinquent taxes?).  If there's even a hint of reasonable suspicion about someone, I'd say there's nothing stopping the relevant agencies in the UK from legally spying on said person.  IMO, the only reason to push this bill through is pave the way towards legally implementing massive-scale data collection on the populace at large.  Or to make legal any such collection they are hypothetically already be doing.  Your friend with the security services and their cohorts may have good intentions for wanting this, but this is like asking for a flamethrower to use for lighting candles.  And eventually the wrong people will inherit that flamethrower (assuming that the "wrong people" are not already in power…).

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Sat, Nov 19, 2016 - 10:33am

    #66
    David Phillips

    David Phillips

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 29 2009

    Posts: 111

    void

    void

     

    Login or Register to post comments

  • Tue, Nov 22, 2016 - 12:34pm

    #67
    Malia35

    Malia35

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Nov 22 2016

    Posts: 1

    Services

    delhi escorts service
    delhi escorts
    call girls
    desi hot girls
    to night escorts service

     

    Login or Register to post comments

Login or Register to post comments