ZeitGeist Moving Forward

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ZeitGeist Moving Forward

 

WOW blown away by the 3rd installation by Peter Joseph.  The section on Economics or anti-economics is very powerful....enjoy.

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzbWl34f4iU

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Re: ZeitGeist Moving Forward

 

Official release is tomorrow, just visit the ZeitGeist website.  

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Re: ZeitGeist Moving Forward

 

Ok I found a version that will work.  I know the official release is tomorrow but oh well.  Hopefully it won't be taken down.  

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BA5TlH0xCs

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Re: ZeitGeist Moving Forward

 

 

Ok The Official version is Up and Running 

 

www.zeitgeistmovie.com  Sorry for all the issues that were posed earlier.  Enjoy

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Re: ZeitGeist Moving Forward

Amazing feature film that everybody should see!!!

What do we do now ppl??

Love

P.S, Message to Peter Joseph:

Pleeeeease do a half hour version!!!! ...I think there would be more 'people' willing to 'invest' half an hour rather than the length of the main feature.. A 'documentary' for TV and/or places of education (thats if we have enough time to resolve the current situation before it is too late.. the point of no return) maybe?

Ultimately another great contribution from Peter Joseph

..the awareness is allmost there..  ..its oneLove

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Re: ZeitGeist Moving Forward

 

Yup I agree.  What we have in not sustainable as pointed out in the film.  I herd Peter in an interview saying he has enough footage and information to make it a 5 hr documentary i think, but obviously that is to long.  He may break it up into 2 docs but who knows.  

I like the part when Milton Freedman basically looks like a jackass. Milton blames the charity factor not the energy company for the mans death.  More like, why didn't the energy company work with the guy to make payment and at the same time keep him alive?  1. the energy company will not hurt, 2. it will be good publicity for that energy company which they could benefit from.  More consumers by showing compassion for it's customers.  

And it's true we have an Anti-economic system

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Re: ZeitGeist Moving Forward
oneLove wrote:

Amazing feature film that everybody should see!!!

What do we do now ppl??

Love

P.S, Message to Peter Joseph:

Pleeeeease do a half hour version!!!! ...I think there would be more 'people' willing to 'invest' half an hour rather than the length of the main feature.. A 'documentary' for TV and/or places of education (thats if we have enough time to resolve the current situation before it is too late.. the point of no return) maybe?

Ultimately another great contribution from Peter Joseph

..the awareness is allmost there..  ..its oneLove

If people can watch the full 3 hour Crash Course about 3E's, then they can (and should) watch Zeitgeist Moving Forward. The movie fires on every one of the the 3E's, and actually points to a solution...to a world that works for everyone, not just some of us.

 

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Re: ZeitGeist Moving Forward

It won't work for everyone on this forum.  And they'll be coming forward soon. 

Just one mans opinion.

trwiley wrote:
oneLove wrote:

Amazing feature film that everybody should see!!!

What do we do now ppl??

Love

P.S, Message to Peter Joseph:

Pleeeeease do a half hour version!!!! ...I think there would be more 'people' willing to 'invest' half an hour rather than the length of the main feature.. A 'documentary' for TV and/or places of education (thats if we have enough time to resolve the current situation before it is too late.. the point of no return) maybe?

Ultimately another great contribution from Peter Joseph

..the awareness is allmost there..  ..its oneLove

If people can watch the full 3 hour Crash Course about 3E's, then they can (and should) watch Zeitgeist Moving Forward. The movie fires on every one of the the 3E's, and actually points to a solution...to a world that works for everyone, not just some of us.

 

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Re: ZeitGeist Moving Forward

 

Well logan the market place has not worked for a Billion people and this will increase, so Change will come eventually.  Considering what JP Morgan is profiting from  http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/the-more-americans-that-go-on-food-stamps-the-more-money-jp-morgan-makes

If more people did watch The Crash Course, then ZMF, pretty sure it would have a major impact on what needs to happen.

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Re: ZeitGeist Moving Forward

Neo, this has nothing to do with the story of the film.  I'm in full agreement with the story!  

My comment is directed at others on this forum.  They know who they are.Money mouth

jneo wrote:

 

Well logan the market place has not worked for a Billion people and this will increase, so Change will come eventually.  Considering what JP Morgan is profiting from  http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/the-more-americans-that-go-on-food-stamps-the-more-money-jp-morgan-makes

If more people did watch The Crash Course, then ZMF, pretty sure it would have a major impact on what needs to happen.

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Re: ZeitGeist Moving Forward

I'll bet I'm one of them.

That said, I haven't watched this installment, I'll check it out tomorrow and doing my usual, annoying critique.

Cheers,

Aaron

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Re: ZeitGeist Moving Forward
LogansRun wrote:

Neo, this has nothing to do with the story of the film.  I'm in full agreement with the story!  

My comment is directed at others on this forum.  They know who they are.Money mouth

Saint Logan the Martyr.  Innocent

Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more.......

Tod, you are really good for a belly laugh in your new role of not posting here anymore.  Laughing

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Re: ZeitGeist Moving Forward
Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote:
LogansRun wrote:

Neo, this has nothing to do with the story of the film.  I'm in full agreement with the story!  

My comment is directed at others on this forum.  They know who they are.Money mouth

Saint Logan the Martyr.  Innocent

Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more.......

Tod, you are really good for a belly laugh in your new role of not posting here anymore.  Laughing

Alright Cyber Bully...Frown   Looks like the video was taken down... didn't get to watch Yell

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Re: ZeitGeist Moving Forward

Mike,

Use the most recent post from jneo with the one line link.

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Re: ZeitGeist Moving Forward

 

Figure I would just post the film.  

‎"I have watched the social values of society be reduced into a base artificiality of materialism and mindless consumption. And I have watched, as the monetary powers control the political structure of supposedly free societies. I'm 94 years old now, and I'm afraid my disposition is the same as it was 75 years ago. This shit's got to go." -Jacque Fresco

 

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w

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Re: ZeitGeist -5 Shining Stars!

Just finished watching -5 Shining Stars!

It might take 100s of years to get to the utopia described - but now is a good time to start.  I downloaded it when youtube said "43" and just checked- over 40,000 downloads in 4 hours.

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Re: ZeitGeist -5 Shining Stars!
EndGamePlayer wrote:

Just finished watching -5 Shining Stars!

It might take 100s of years to get to the utopia described - but now is a good time to start.  I downloaded it when youtube said "43" and just checked- over 40,000 downloads in 4 hours.

96,000 views now.

I liked it. I hope I live long enough to see the transition through. This has the potential to be one wild ride.

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Re: ZeitGeist -5 Shining Stars!
EndGamePlayer wrote:

It might take 100s of years to get to the utopia described - but now is a good time to start.  I downloaded it when youtube said "43" and just checked- over 40,000 downloads in 4 hours.

"The Venus Project is neither Utopian, nor Orwellian, nor does it reflect the dreams of impractical idealists. Instead, it presents attainable goals requiring only the intelligent application of what we already know. The only limitations are those we impose upon ourselves." Jacque Fresco

"The Venus Project is not a Utopian concept. We do not believe in the erroneous notion of a utopian society. There is no such thing. Societies are always in a state of transition. We propose an alternative direction, which addresses the causes of many of our problems. There are no final frontiers for human and technological achievement - it will always undergo change. Even if we can design a society having all of the modifications to improve the lives of people and protect the environment we will still be at the beginning of the next phase." Venus Project F.A.Q.


 

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Re: ZeitGeist -5 Shining Stars!
trwiley wrote:

"The Venus Project is neither Utopian, nor Orwellian, nor does it reflect the dreams of impractical idealists. Instead, it presents attainable goals requiring only the intelligent application of what we already know. The only limitations are those we impose upon ourselves." Jacque Fresco

Just because someone says that, does not mean it is true.  Do you also believe that everything politicians says is truth?

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Re: ZeitGeist -5 Shining Stars!
goes211 wrote:
trwiley wrote:

"The Venus Project is neither Utopian, nor Orwellian, nor does it reflect the dreams of impractical idealists. Instead, it presents attainable goals requiring only the intelligent application of what we already know. The only limitations are those we impose upon ourselves." Jacque Fresco

Just because someone says that, does not mean it is true.  Do you also believe that everything politicians says is truth?

 

Makes more sense than most things people hear.  It all depends on what you make of it.  Capitalist claim market utopia and socialist make their claims too, same goes for Venus Project but in the movie when they talk about culture, environment and how it effects people's behavior then Fresco's statement rings more true than not.  

Something like this has never been tried, and with the flaws of the market pointed out in the film, we cannot sustain the consumption cycle.  Just how many more rounds of pointless traditional political jabber, FED speak, and everyone's favorite QE ,1,2,3,4 and so on are we gonna take until the masses say "We had ENOUGH"  Think it started globally already.  The Best ROI would be to create a world that does take care of you, cause what we have today is a world that eats away at you.

 

 

WOW almost 250,000 views. 

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Re: ZeitGeist Moving Forward

jneo wrote:

Something like this has never been tried

A tried and true system based on natural law is indigenous matriarchy.

If you want to hear about a system, or a way of being in community that makes sense...check out the Russell Means videos on Matriarchy I just posted in the Controversial Topics Forum under Native American Wisdom. Mr. Means discusses, in great practical detail, the importance of a paradigm shift that honors natural law. link: http://www.peakprosperity.com/forum/native-american-wisdom/42585?page=4

(Matriarchy is not about feminism or Goddess worship...it is about all human life being sacred)

-littleone

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Re: ZeitGeist Moving Forward

 

I'll check it out Littleone

 

Hey!! Russell Means?  Don't you Mean Wandering Bear from Curb Your Enthusiasm?  Haha.  

www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7O21odzAqQ

"you said pencil"  hahah love that Larry

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Re: ZeitGeist Moving Forward

OK - to start off, I'm a little perturbed that I just wasted almost 3 hours of my life on this video. That said, there were some illustrative points that made sense. There were also an innumerable amount that did not. Here they are:

Part I:

Poorly shaped arguments regarding societies and violence. The correlation between violence in youth and violent behavior as an adult is correlative, not causual. This said, unless there is an omnipresent entity monitering your behavior, there is no way of telling who is "abusing" children. Further, this is an entirely subjective issue.

What a child in America views as unreasonable punishment, a child in Africa would view as trivial. As with all our behaviors, violence is individual and anthroprogenic.

It is also useful, and a biologically encoded (Monoamine Oxidase A, for example) imperative that is useful for survival. The survival of the human being is based on the calculated use of intelligence, instinct and ability. Attempting to remove instinct by environmental means may assist, but it will not eliminate the propensity. There is no evidence in the video that supports the claim that it will, and here are some faulty examples:

The Amish

The Amish who refuse to fight in wars, and are strict pacifists may be so. That said, the Rumspriga has various, well documented cases of Amish youths engaging in drugs, sex and violence as a ritual. Hardly a credible example of a society who's "eradicated" the impulse to commit destructive acts.

Kibbutzim This concept came into maturation as a mutual defense community. Ironic it's being used as an example of non-violence. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibbutz#Statebuilding

Native Americans The Natives have a long legacy of inter-tribal warfare, especially in the Desert Southwest, and Meso-America, where human sacrifice of captured slaves was common. Negligence of history is no excuse for making false assertions. http://www.hyperhistory.net/apwh/essays/comp/cw13olmecmaya.htm Next, the concept that there is no "social equality" - there isn't, and never will be. Even under other "centrally planned economies", there was absolutely no ability to harness the human impulses that give rise to greed, gratification of aquisition or inequity.

Maybe read here:

http://www.peakprosperity.com/blog/straight-talk-paul-kedrosky-dont-depe...

Part II:

The assertions that:

-The Lockean provisos state that money negates legitimate ownership - This is a blatant misinterpretation. The Lockean provisos said no such thing, though I will concede that there's no way he could have forseen the trading of money as a revenue generator.

-Race of Labors equals Genocide - This is again, a bold, unsupported claim. The indifference may be unethical and immoral, but to label it genocidal is irresponsible and hard to defend. There are limitations to what we can do, wealthy or not, based on social situations of nations with lower standards of living. Millions of millions of dollars have poured into "developing" nations, as well as UN, UNICEF and Red Cross support - so why haven't there been gains?

This is essentially tantamount to the proposed solution or redistributing wealth to allow the flowering of other cultures.

Is there something else to blame? Cultural predispositions that cannot be changed by outsiders, perhaps?

Zeitgeist's thinking is a bit myopic and utopian - the reality is it's not simply to change socio-political precedents abroad.

-Sick and Dying = Economic health - This is flawed on the assertion that health care represents "sick and dying" people - Health care is significantly more encompassing than simply sick and dying individuals. In addition, the remedial and diagnostic advances have made very real, tangible improvements to many peoples' quality of life. Therefore, it could be said that GDP as it relates to Health Care represents the amount of mitigation a nation is applying to its sick and dying.

-No profit in "peace and balance" - Mike Ruppert This is hyperbolic and rhetorical.

I see no way to "base" this assertion on science, which ironically is what the Venus Project proposes we do with all social issues. Another dead-end. I couldn't agree more about the definition of Economization/Anti-Economy.

-Spot on, intelligently laid-out and well defined. Planned obsolescence as well. Necessity is directly proportional to inefficiency - this again is an unquantifiable subjective evaluation which has no logical meaning.

It does, however, raise some interesting questions about the relationship between development and necessity. It'd submit that the relationship isn't "fixed", ergo, isn't directly or inversely proportional, but varies greatly based on a variety of scenarios and possible impetusus and demands. Structual classism is destructive, and the Ownership of "wealth" is inherently evil.

This opens a can of worms that cannot be philosophically defended for long. It's evident of superficial thinking on a subject with significant "real-world" case-studies that preclude it from having any real worth to the presented ideology.

The notion that Drugs/Mental Illness/Mental Capital/Education/homocide rates/crime and imprisonment/teen birth rate are lower in "equal countries" - you'll have to do more than flash a quick graph in front of me to prove this.

How is it measured?

Who defines the parameters with which we measure things like "mental capital", "Mental Illness" or what exactly "Drug problems" are?

Holland has "drug problems" by our view, and we by theirs.

Who's correct? Subjectivity strikes again.

Part III:

I found this entire segment to be worthless.

This is a thinly veiled attempt at promoting a centrally planned economy which uses absolutely ideal circumstances to predicate its assertions. Not a great way to convince anyone, if they're thinking critically. Science is almost useless in reference to the Socio-Political issues we face - the human network is simply too complex and stochastic to "predict" how any given approach would actually affect the society. For example, the progressive solution for alcoholism was Prohibition.

The answer to prohibition was: The birth of all the agencies that Zeitgeist blames for subjugating the misunderstood addict. Ironically, the "Scientific Method" failed, and create a more abysmal failure during the restitution. I see little reason to believe that Progressivism (The Scientific Method applied to Society) is going to be beneficial.

With the "trial and error" approach to science, we have latititude to create hypothesis, test them in a controlled environment and refine them as is necessary. In society, such moves could be potentially catastrophic - indeed, it's inevitable.

So how will such a society react to systemic failure? Does it offer any advantages to seperate, politically diverse societies? After this market system passes on, we will be once again forced to adapt, diversify and outgrow our means - this is the process of natural selection. Trying to mitigate it seems almost counter-intuitive to the progressive way of thinking.

To say there is "no logical alternative" is a bewildering statement to me. There are, and have been innumerable examples of successful social models, and there will continue to be.

Need based distribution - This is flawed thinking at its finest. This is the "fuse" to the "centrally planned economy's" dynamite. If you produce goods only in a quantity in which they'll be possessed by those using them presently, you'll open the door for possessive instincts to create internal dischord. This is a fairly well understood component of human nature. Maybe it's environment... ask the Soviet Union what they think. Oh, wait, they're not here anymore...

If the predominant issue in this segment is the lack of ability to produce enough goods to satisfy all, while preserving finite resources, why hasn't the idea of keeping a smaller population been approached?

This is not only a more simple, direct solution, but it's inevitable, again, by way of the Darwinian process of natural selection which states:

• Heredity: Offspring inherit their traits from their parents, in the form of genes.

• Heritable individual variation: Members of a population have slight differences among them, whether in height, eyesight acuity, beak shape, rate of egg production, or other traits that may affect survival and reproduction. If a trait has a genetic basis, it can be passed on to offspring.

• Overproduction of offspring: In any given generation, populations tend to create more progeny than can survive to reproductive age.

• Competition for resources: Because of excess population, individuals must compete for food, nesting sites, mates, or other resources that affect their ability to successfully reproduce.

http://www.biologyreference.com/Mo-Nu/Natural-Selection.html

Simple Solution - mitigate population.

Which the "responsible, systems approach" completely neglects considering.

Further, the assertion that these systems are proven understandings is ambigious and deceptive.

Proven how?

Where?

The assertion that faster mechanisation is somehow tied to enemployment needs something more substantial than a chalkboard graphic, please. Resource based economy needs no money - Oh really?

This assertion is obviously terminally shortsighted, or is operating on the premise that the Venus Project will instantly ensnare every nation and human on the face of the planet simultaneously.

If it did not, it would still need a medium of exchange with which to aquire the goods and services to build its cities. Also, in a population where only 3% of the population is needed workforce, what in the hell are people going to do with themselves?

We have endemic lethargy now with the minimal excesses of our society - I can't imagine that people would strive towards the difficult when they'd never known any sort of actual work. This is a really illogical assertion, and again, some backing is absolutely necessary in order to even make silly claims like this. Of which there was none.

I'm sure that their claim to the "assurance of volunteers" is true, however. Who wouldn't want to sit on their ass and do nothing in paradise? o.O

Unbacked assertion #14,928: Substantiate the assertion that Money is not an incentive and causes "100x" more distortion than contribution ("in fact").

Unbacked assertion #14,929: Global reduction in crime by 95% immediately in the resource based economy...mhm. Lacking understanding of human nature, perhaps?

Soldiers are not serial killers (even with machineguns) - they'd technically be "mass murderers", but combat is largely consensual, so it's not even technically "murder".

Lacking philosophical and legal context and comprehension, yet again... Abborated people who're victims of culture say: "don't tell me what to think!" Well, so do Communists, who were thoroughaly indoctrinated into a centrally planned economy. Governments hijacking personal atonomy tends to do that to the body of citizens.

 

Part IV

Nice that all dissenting voices are characterized as idiotic, rhetorical-minded simpletons. I'm sure this is 'incidental', rather than intentional, right? No propaganda, I'm sure.

The claims that this idea is Marxist - where did it come from? The central planned economy, maybe.

Valid point on bailouts.

Africans "are not dying of the HIV Virus, they're dying because they don't have the money to pay for the drugs to keep them alive" ...and they staple condoms to pieces of paper with instructions on how to use them.

Long story short isn't really anything different than their last attempts at revealing Xanadu. Unrealistic, impractical and utopian. Yep, I said it. If they hear it so often, perhaps they should temper their concept with a bit of reality.

I want 3 hours of my life back.

Ugh...

Aaron

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Re: ZeitGeist Moving Forward

Aaron,

Thanks for saving me my 3 hours.  Zeitgeist videos that I've viewed in the past had more holes than Swiss cheese.  I guess a leopard can't change its spots.

 

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Re: ZeitGeist Moving Forward

Aaron,

i must say that you took this movie too literaly.

Peter Joseph wasn't trying to debunk everything on this planet, but he used a few examples to make a POINT. 

You are not very smart, are you? Otherwise you would investigate a bit more before leaving your print on this forum

[Moderator's note:  This post is a violation of the forum guidelines.  Appropriate remedial actions have been undertaken.]

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Re: ZeitGeist Moving Forward
patrioticcow wrote:

Aaron,

i must say that you took this movie too literaly.

Peter Joseph wasn't trying to debunk everything on this planet, but he used a few examples to make a POINT. 

You are not very smart, are you? Otherwise you would investigate a bit more before leaving your print on this forum

 

Yowza!

Way to be insulting with your first post!

Try again, please.

-G'd Night

 

 

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Re: ZeitGeist Moving Forward

i watched this last night. i thought the first two parts were informative but the conclusions drawn were a stretch. big holes in the last two parts. i honestly have a hard time believing anyone else actually takes the last two parts seriously. when i think of a summary to parts three and four it's that we need a computer to completely automate our lives, globally managing everything so we can do whatever it is you do when you that's the world you live in.

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Re: ZeitGeist Moving Forward
patrioticcow wrote:

Aaron,

i must say that you took this movie too literaly.

Peter Joseph wasn't trying to debunk everything on this planet, but he used a few examples to make a POINT. 

You are not very smart, are you? Otherwise you would investigate a bit more before leaving your print on this forum

I think Aaron is very smart and makes his well thought out and knowledgeable points clearly. You obviously disagree, but have not taken the time to counter any of his points. You then have the gall to end any chance of future dialog by resorting to a personal attack. Bad form. Post flagged.

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Re: ZeitGeist Moving Forward

Patrioticcow,

No, I'm not very smart. I admit readily that I do not have the answers, and I'm intellectually honest enough to admit the flaws of my beliefs. That said, I think my interrogation was bringing valuable, viable points, and if you'd like to challenge my "print", youre free to do so.

Cheers

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Re: ZeitGeist Moving Forward

Aaron, thanks for your review. I appreciate it and acknowledge the time it took to write it. The first 30 min of the movie were interesting and informative but I haven't watched the rest yet. I think I'll take those 2 hrs and start some winter hardy vegetable seeds instead. :)

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Re: ZeitGeist Moving Forward
patrioticcow wrote:

You are not very smart, are you? Otherwise you would investigate a bit more before leaving your print on this forum

Hillarious from a first time poster...

Aaron,

Your review was a great service to the rest of us.  I admire the ZeitGeist for some of their valid critiques of the current system and their willingness to propose something radically different but they are hard to take serious.  One can understand how a sheltered university student could look at the proposal and think it is a great idea but most others will find it painfully naive.  Also the classic deflection techniques used to imply that it is not some sort of collectivist utopian dream, do it no service.

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