ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post

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ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post

 

The Zeitgeist Movement: Envisioning A Sustainable Future

"It takes a different value system if you wish to change the world," Jacque Fresco said to a sold out crowd of over 800 in New York City's Upper West Side. Though he may not need to convince these people, many his ardent followers, it will indeed take a restructuring of the mind for those unfamiliar with Fresco's work to realistically accept the ideas he proposes of a new global society that has given up money and property in favor of a shared, sustainable, technology-driven community. The caustic skepticism can already be heard, critics crying out with pointed fingers, decreeing communism, socialism, insanity! But as Fresco himself will tell you, communism is still just another system with banks and social stratification. The kind of world he imagines for the future is much different. To ease the transition,The Zeitgeist Movement provides a wealth of dizzying information detailing why a new global system is not only preferred, but necessary, and just how we can get there.

March 13th, 2010 was the second annual celebration of ZDay. Coordinated by The Zeitgeist Movement, ZDay is an educational event geared toward raising awareness of the movement. While 337 sympathetic events occurred in over 70 countries worldwide, NYC was home to the main event, a 6-hour live web cast presentation with lectures from the movement's key figures, and 30 different countries represented in the audience.

So what exactly is The Zeitgeist Movement? Not even two years old, the movement declares itself as the activist arm of The Venus Project, an organization started in the 1970s by Fresco and his partner, Roxanne Meadows. The Venus Project distributes resources promoting Fresco's vision of an improved society, with the main component being a resource-based economy, rather than a monetary-based one. In Fresco's resource-based economy, the world's resources would be considered as the equal inheritance of all the world's peoples, and would be managed as efficiently and carefully as possible through focusing on the technological potential of sustainable development. It is toward this idea that The Zeitgeist Movement works to educate and inform people.

The movement's founder, Peter Joseph, came to notoriety with his 2007 internet film sensation,Zeitgeist, and it's 2008 successor, Zeitgeist: Addendum. While many people may find it hard to digest the idea of a world without currency, Joseph's argument that our economic system is the source of our greatest social problems was supported with valuable evidence.

Describing how the margin between upper and lower classes is growing larger every day, Joseph cited that 20% of the American population controls 85% of the money. Also mentioning that the Walton family (of Wal-Mart) owns $90 billion while the lower 40% of America own $95 billion. The most startling revelations he divulged, however, were found when he graphed the amount of specific social issues in the world's richest countries against those countries' level of income inequality. The results were astounding, showing that America, a wealthy country but with a vast gap between its rich and poor, is plagued with higher homicide rates, drug use, obesity, mental illness, teenage pregnancy, infant mortality, and imprisonment. On the other hand, countries with much more equal income levels, such as Japan, have better educational scores, longer life expectancies, and higher levels of trust among their populations. The strong correlation is difficult to ignore: the higher a country's income inequality, the more social problems that degrade it, regardless of its GDP.

Joseph seemed well prepared for all the naysayers. For those who argue that the free market is an open system where anyone can achieve wealth, he displayed figures showing that America is one of the most socially immobile countries in the world, meaning that those born poor are likely to stay poor, and those born rich are likely to stay rich. For the argument that the competitive nature of capitalism produces more innovation, Joseph showed statistics that the countries with higher income equality filed more patents per million people each year than the United States and similar countries of larger income gaps.

This is aside from the obvious impact on the climate that a capitalist system creates. In a monetary society, Joseph points out, obsolescence is encouraged, as the shorter lifespan a product has, the more profit it generates in the long-term. Excess waste is built into the system, which flourishes from disposability and inefficiency. In a monetary system, Joseph says, change, abundance, sustainability, and efficiency are the enemies of profit. He goes on to add, "Corporations are not in competition with other corporations but with progress itself."

The plights of today are plainly evident, but how do we solve them? Getting rid of money, ownership and even government might sound like a ludicrous fantasy, but to the over 386,000 registered members of the fast-growing Zeitgeist Movement, it is not an option, but the only chance we have at creating a peaceful society, in harmony with nature, that provides a high-standard of living for everyone. Joseph made the focus clear in his presentation: resource preservation is equal to human survival, and all the social ideologies that currently exist are inadequate because they don't address resources as a part of their fundamental principals.

Joseph emphasized that the solution begins with a remodeling of our social values, starting with education based on sustainability. The ideal society, proposed by the project, would have a worldwide automated computer system actively monitoring the levels of the world's surveyed resources and ranking them according to factors such as their potential, renewability, and pollution. This computer would intelligently make objective decisions as to the uses of these resources based on empirical fact, not biased legislation. Automated labor would be perfected on a mass scale, something frowned upon in capitalism because it is equated with job loss and unemployment. Fresco insists eliminating all mundane jobs that insult human capacity when they can instead be relegated to machines that will act more precisely and productively.

From the maximization of resources and efficiency of automated labor, Fresco imagines a world of abundance, where everything is available to everyone. As idealistic as this may sound, keep in mind that there is currently enough food to feed everyone in the world, but not enough money to pay for it.One billion people (one-sixth of the world) are starving, yet American's throw out approximately 40% of their purchased food. Fresco says that in a world where everything is supplied, the majority of today's crimes would be non-existent, as they are primarily related to obtaining money and property, or born of social inequality. The crimes that still exist would be considered symptomatic of mental aberration, and these people would be given treatment and help, not punished, as no prisons would exist. People would be rewarded with an incentive system for contributions based on social relevance.

Celebrating his 94th birthday, Fresco was lively and animated as he guided the audience through a visual presentation of his conceptual ideas and models for sustainable technology. Wowing the crowd with images that seemed of science fiction, the audience was assured that nothing was unrealistic about his designs, and if science and technology were focused on progress instead of consumption, they would all be easily realized.


The members of The Zeitgeist Movement seem to face an intimidating wall of those who decree their goals as unattainable. But with 250 international chapters forming in just one year and the membership count rapidly growing, it's undeniable that many easily identify with the message. The evidence shows that our current system is leading us on a collision course; our present model of society cannot sustain itself. While some deny this, others ignore it, and there are those who still try to profit off of it. The Zeitgeist Movement highlights that there are individuals who believe in a sustainable future where humanity is not united by religious or political ideology, but by the scientific method, venerated as the savior that can develop a system of human equality, thriving from the cooperation and balance of technology and nature.

 

 

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Re: ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post

I am a 37 yr old physical therapist in Cleveland new to this site for the last 14 weeks

The road to an idealist future presented in the article is unknown.

 I've come to realize the monetary system is at the very least dysfunctional in that it encourages waste and scarcity mentality which drives for people to want more, more more !!  More because their is less available.

My goal 1 yr ago was to become rich.  Then since I read the Mike Maloney's book on investing in gold and silver my goal was to just survive.  

Then after becoming a member to Chris Martenson's website my goal was to find out how to serve in this evolving environment and what is my role to be.  How can I serve?  ( unfortunately changing my materialistic core is going to take some time).  Materialism will probably help to transition to the future.  The more i learn from this site the more perplexed and difficult  the decisions i have to make.  

I AM a doomsdayer for the short term 10 - 20 yrs)  I want to be prepared for the future changes and be a LEADER.  ( similar to Chris M.)

This article leaves many more questions for me ( for which i do not like to have).

Some people want to be ignorant of the current and future problems.  I don't.  Some people want to be optimistic about the problems that are present without any facts to support their optimism.   

Some say this is the INFORMATION AGE .  WRONG!   This is the TECHNOLOGICAL AGE ( which just taking over our jobs which is our commodity which makes us valuable)

Pretty crazy !!!

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Re: ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post

 

I agree with the 10 - 2o yrs time frame, and this is a great site to evolve at new information.  If this article makes you have more questions, I suggest you read all the material and video presentation presented from the Zeitgeist movement.  

The faster this information gets out and understood the better, but many will revolt and disagree only to ensure there own slavery i.e. taxes, debt, and so on.  

When we step back and look at what is really relevant for sustainability, instead of looking at what is relevant for the market/money system to operate, humanity will come to the realization that we are holding our species back by having a self-fulfillment facade based upon materialism.  

The masses will reject the current system naturally (hopefully) when they realize we should not be using resources for making junk that ends up in a landfill and just sits there.    

The cyclical consumption cycle is depleting resources with no true contingency plan, buy throw away, buy throw away.  

If a Creator of our species is looking down and realizing that we are a Failed experiment, instead of helping, that creator would realize we are going to destroy ourselves anyways.  

Monetary economics did help humanity, but it needs to fade away.  Trying to solve future problems with old outdated methods (money, politics) will only result in the destruction of our species. 

 

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Re: ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post

Hello Mike,

JK21 and I have had a fair bit of discussion about The Zeitgeist Movement over the past year. To further align yourself to Jacque Fresco's concept, I consider the short film called ...

The Story Of Stuff - with Annie Leonard

http://www.storyofstuff.com/

... as absolutely perfect for showing exactly how wrong the track we're travelling on really is. It's also a fantastic lead in for either Dr.Chris Martenson's Crash Course or ...

The Zeitgeist Movement: Orientation Presentation

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=3932487043163636261#

... as a wonderful teaching aid to family, friend's and all those people you happen to bump into on a daily basis and strike up conversation with ...

JK21,

thankyou very much for putting up this thread, I hope many others get value from it  ...

Take Care

~ VF ~

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Re: ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post
mike009 wrote:

I am a 37 yr old physical therapist in Cleveland new to this site for the last 14 weeks

The road to an idealist future presented in the article is unknown.

 I've come to realize the monetary system is at the very least dysfunctional in that it encourages waste and scarcity mentality which drives for people to want more, more more !!  More because their is less available.

My goal 1 yr ago was to become rich.  Then since I read the Mike Maloney's book on investing in gold and silver my goal was to just survive.  

Then after becoming a member to Chris Martenson's website my goal was to find out how to serve in this evolving environment and what is my role to be.  How can I serve?  ( unfortunately changing my materialistic core is going to take some time).  Materialism will probably help to transition to the future.  The more i learn from this site the more perplexed and difficult  the decisions i have to make.  

I AM a doomsdayer for the short term 10 - 20 yrs)  I want to be prepared for the future changes and be a LEADER.  ( similar to Chris M.)

This article leaves many more questions for me ( for which i do not like to have).

Some people want to be ignorant of the current and future problems.  I don't.  Some people want to be optimistic about the problems that are present without any facts to support their optimism.   

Some say this is the INFORMATION AGE .  WRONG!   This is the TECHNOLOGICAL AGE ( which just taking over our jobs which is our commodity which makes us valuable)

Pretty crazy !!!

Hi Mike,

Welcome to the site.  I have to admit to being curious as to how you intended to become rich as a physical therapist, lol.  As an aside, it's sad to see what has happened to folks like Barret Dorko and with Jim Porterfield and the Crystal Clinic in your neck of the woods.   

With regards to gold and silver investing, if Michael Maloney's book is the only one you've read, I'd delve into some others to broaden your perspectives on the subject. 

With regards to Zeitgeist, the theological component of the movie has more holes than a wheel of Swiss cheese so I wouldn't put too much credence in that particular component of it.  With regards to the rest of it, there are many good points made with regards to economic, political, and social issues but then that nasty little issue called "human nature" rears its ugly head and throws a major wrench into the works.  As for "... the scientific method, venerated as the savior that can develop a system of human equality...", that particular direction became increasingly prevalent in society in the 1950s and 60s when God was declared dead and science was crowned king.  As we can see, it was an abysmal failure.  I'd like to hope that those folks could be successful in their endeavors but I'd bet enormous odds against them being so.

I agree with you that the next 10-20 years don't seem very promising unless there is a huge technological breakthrough in the areas of energy and transportation, the likes of which we've never seen before ...  unlikely but possible nonetheless.

 

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Re: ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post

... and just to add, Zeitgeist's value is best understood from the perspective of an open mind ... Cool...

The alternative is, of course, that we just keep killing each other and holding value to mountains of little bits of paper ...

... of course, in the real world, nothing is going to change if we can't look at the value of many different concepts. I've yet to find one that is, at least, as compelling and fascinating an idea as this one ...

~ VF ~

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Re: ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post

Yes if you have any other books or websites for investing (or careers) it would help.  

I don't know what happened to Porterfield  or Dorko. What happened?

Any comment on Multi Level Marketing such as Team - Mona Vie?

 

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Re: ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post
Vanityfox451 wrote:

... and just to add, Zeitgeist's value is best understood from the perspective of an open mind ... Cool...

Indeed, one wants to be open minded but not so open minded that one's brains leak out.Wink

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Re: ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post

You should go on the stage ao, you'd be eating seats ...

... never to so much bear a grudge ...

http://www.peakprosperity.com/forum/unsustainability-civilisation/36503

... sorry for railroading your thread JK21, carry on ...

~ VF ~

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Re: ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post
mike009 wrote:

Yes if you have any other books or websites for investing (or careers) it would help.  

I don't know what happened to Porterfield  or Dorko. What happened?

Any comment on Multi Level Marketing such as Team - Mona Vie?

Did you buy any PMs?  As far as investing, it's tough out there when every market is being manipulated out the wazoo.  Go back and look at Dog's posts (Dogs In A Pile) on market neutral trading to give you some direction.  I'm sure he'll help you out if you PM him.  As far as careers, that's an individual thing ... don't know if I can help you much there.  What would you want to do if money were no object?

With regards to Barret, this is a fairly recent post on a forum that is rather self-explanatory:

"I have witnessed the death of our profession since entering the PT school
nearly 40 years ago. Now having failed to provide any financial incentive
for the referral sources that fed my solo practice for 28 years (it
consequently failed), and then not promising our colleagues my workshop
would solve all their clinical challenges in six hours without further
study, I find myself working in a large department that resembles a
hairdressing salon in style and atmosphere, except for the fact that the
hairdressers know a lot more about what they're actually doing and keep up
with the literature."

I forget the exact details with Jim Porterfield and the Crystal Clinic and am therefore reluctant to postulate here but it wasn't positive and I'm sure someone in your area knows the story better than I'd tell it.

I personally wouldn't touch MLM with a ten foot pole but YMMV.

 

 

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Re: ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post

 

I think AO needs to realize our current methods of solving problems will not help solve future ones.  I suggest reading all of the material in order to get an informed mind, for an informed mind is an opened one.  

The current system of Politics will still be around for a while, many people are brainwashed to protect there slave owners.  I do blame the masses too, were electing Bankers, Lawyers, and Business people, when we should of been electing Scientists, Engineers, and Doctors, that would of been a great step had it happened 100 yrs ago. 

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Re: ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post
Vanityfox451 wrote:

You should go on the stage ao, you'd be eating seats ...

... never to so much bear a grudge ...

http://www.peakprosperity.com/forum/unsustainability-civilisation/36503

... sorry for railroading your thread JK21, carry on ...

~ VF ~

Paul,

How about for once dropping the passive-aggressive and circuitous speech and just speak plainly and directly.  I, for one, would be able to understand what the hell you're saying. 

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Re: ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post

THANKS for the info !!!

Mike

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Re: ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post
ao wrote:

How about for once dropping the passive-aggressive and circuitous speech and just speak plainly and directly.  I, for one, would be able to understand what the hell you're saying. 

... because ao, the use of expletives within the forum is frowned upon heavily ...

 

~ VF ~

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Re: ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post
Vanityfox451 wrote:
ao wrote:

How about for once dropping the passive-aggressive and circuitous speech and just speak plainly and directly.  I, for one, would be able to understand what the hell you're saying. 

... because ao, the use of expletives within the forum is frowned upon heavily ...

 

~ VF ~

So let me get this straight.  Eating seats and expletives over someone at variance with certain aspects of this particular point of view (which I have read fully about and seen all the videos of, BTW) are part of the Zeitgeist solution for world peace and prosperity? 

Let me ask you this.  Have just read about Zeitgeist or have you actually been personally exposed to the New York cultural element that this point of view springs from?

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Re: ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post

 

Let's get back on track, another great interview you can watch to give you an idea on where we will be going is an interview with Ray Kurtzweil on Glenn Beck, back when he was at cnn.  It's 4 parts, very interesting material. 

I think people need to really consider the concepts and understandings of a Resource Based Economy based on the inevitable move toward automation of jobs.  Kurtzweil's Law of accelerating return, he explains when applied to technology will be able to automate majority of jobs as the Zeitgeist movement acknowledges too.  

The point of technology is to free humanity.

Google, Automation and Unemployment tons of material and videos come up, interesting stuff enjoy.

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Re: ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post

JK,

I found the interview with Ray Kurzweil on Glenn Beck for you: -

Ray Kurzweil ~ Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Kurzweil

{Snippet}

Wikipedia wrote:

Raymond Kurzweil (born February 12, 1948) is an American inventor and futurist. He is involved in fields as diverse as optical character recognition (OCR), text-to-speech synthesis, speech recognition technology, and electronic keyboard instruments. He is the author of several books on health, artificial intelligence (AI), transhumanism, the technological singularity, and futurism.

Transcript

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0805/30/gb.01.html

I also found him free-flowing his genius to an apprieciative audience on TED for you: -

Ray Kurzweil: How Technologies Accelerating Power Will Transform Us

... and going further than Glen Beck could ever imagine in his own lifetime: -

Ray Kurzweil - Singularity Summit At Stanford

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-6140406219828000794&ei=YpSoS9eeEZmW-Ab_qeStAw&q=Ray+Kurzweil&hl=en&view=3#

... and a related bonus film that is so stunning, a friend of mine who is devising a UK Open I.D computer platform used it in an hour lecture he performed to an audience of 500 forward thinking and fully engaged people at the top of their field, just a few months ago : -

~ VF ~

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Re: ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post

ao,

I'm aware of all the arguments that you make, and they're nothing new to me because I always expose myself to contradictory arguments. I think that serves the interests of making an informed opinion.

I do not believe at this time that the Zeitgeist Movement have all of the answer's any more than Ray Kurtzweil; or indeed Derick Jensen.

In the political and religious state of things that are building in the United States at this time, aggressive tactics, black and white or left verses right thinking is blanking out the effectiveness of a colourful middle ground.

Interpretation of idea's cannot be done inside of the bubble that is the United States to me. Therefore, a corruption in the intention of a good idea can make it appear a bad one.

To me, the CM forum needs a group of intuitive and open minds more than ever. It needs people that can embrace every and all of the possibilities the future has in store for us.

As Dr Martenson once stated, "I may even challenge many of your long held personal belief's". I consider him a visionary, and wish to help fashion a future with the breadth of knowledge we already have and also hope to achieve.

What I'm asking you to do is to share that conviction with me ...

~ VF ~

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Re: ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post

 

 

Well put Vanity, and thanks for uploading the interview.  Cool

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Re: ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post

JK,

you're very welcome.

This short film ...

... nails home precisely what is wrong with the system we have in place at this time. There is no doubt that we need it to change, and quickly, but what exactly must we do to change the path we're on?

~ VF ~

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WOW!! amazing video.  Yup, it's the mechanism of monetary economics that leads to cyclical consumption that is tied in with planned Obsolescence to give a turn over rate, just so the consumer can throw away and waste resources that will come back and bite the consumer in the ass when depletion is in the danger zone.  All Capitalists, Socialists and Communists are the same, wasteful.  

The market place was good 50 yrs ago, but we need sustainability and abundance of items that matter and scrap the junk, basically all materialism that is irrelevant in society, it's axiomatic to the informed.

 

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Re: ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post

have any of you seen the AniMatrix?

http://www.intothematrix.com/

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Re: ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post
Vanityfox451 wrote:

ao,

I'm aware of all the arguments that you make, and they're nothing new to me because I always expose myself to contradictory arguments. I think that serves the interests of making an informed opinion.

I do not believe at this time that the Zeitgeist Movement have all of the answer's any more than Ray Kurtzweil; or indeed Derick Jensen.

In the political and religious state of things that are building in the United States at this time, aggressive tactics, black and white or left verses right thinking is blanking out the effectiveness of a colourful middle ground.

Interpretation of idea's cannot be done inside of the bubble that is the United States to me. Therefore, a corruption in the intention of a good idea can make it appear a bad one.

To me, the CM forum needs a group of intuitive and open minds more than ever. It needs people that can embrace every and all of the possibilities the future has in store for us.

As Dr Martenson once stated, "I may even challenge many of your long held personal belief's". I consider him a visionary, and wish to help fashion a future with the breadth of knowledge we already have and also hope to achieve.

What I'm asking you to do is to share that conviction with me ...

~ VF ~

Fair enough.

I'm not sure what you mean by the following statement though:

"Interpretation of idea's cannot be done inside of the bubble that is the United States to me."

 

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Re: ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post

 

I think Vanity is making the point that the U.S. cannot continue its steps of innovation on its own and ignore end results of our current system.

The overall big picture is we need to stop reinforcing that we need to compete with each other to survive, collective collaboration is key, and linear thinking needs to be phased out just like old technologies are.  Suppression of technologies is holding us back, to say it does not happen is ignorant, and is self evident to those who feel something is not right, a reason why many are on this site.  

The ZeitGeist Movement will continue to grow and emerge to better understandings on where we need to go as a movement and society. 

Can't wait till ZeitGeist III in october. 

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Re: ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post
JK121 wrote:

 

I think Vanity is making the point that the U.S. cannot continue its steps of innovation on its own and ignore end results of our current system.

The overall big picture is we need to stop reinforcing that we need to compete with each other to survive, collective collaboration is key, and linear thinking needs to be phased out just like old technologies are.  Suppression of technologies is holding us back, to say it does not happen is ignorant, and is self evident to those who feel something is not right, a reason why many are on this site.  

The ZeitGeist Movement will continue to grow and emerge to better understandings on where we need to go as a movement and society. 

Can't wait till ZeitGeist III in october. 

I'm afraid I'll have to disagree again on several points.

Competition will always be part of human existence and as long as the competition is not overly aggressive or destructive, there are definite benefits to it.

Also, technology has never yet proven to be our savior in terms of resolving the fundamental moral and ethical issues that have been the source of pain and suffering from violence, injustice, and poverty since the dawn of man.  Mankind faces the same problems it always has except on a progressively grander scale.  In fact, if you look at the streadily growing technological prowess of GPS tracked phones and cars, subcutaneous RFID chips, NSA-type (i.e. Echelon) monitoring of all communications, governmental directed technological integration of all records (financial, medical, legal, civil, criminal, etc.) pertinent to each individual citizen, whole body security scanners, integrated recognition and "truth finding" systems (facial, fingerprint, DNA, IR, EEG, EMG, GSR, functional MRI, etc.), satellite surveillance, CCTV surveillance, unmanned drones, robotic fighting systems, etc., etc., technology is ominously providing "The Owners" with progressively more powerful "tools" to strip us of our liberty, privacy, and assets and bring us deeper into servitude.  

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Re: ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post

Well put ao

In the vids of Kurzweil I was struck by the absence of certain words like wisdom , compassion and the fact that he was not very comfortable talking about spirituality.

Any technology not informed by any of these is exactly as you have described.

I recall Timothy Leary not long before he died being asked what he was working on and he replied " Drugs to increase huiman intelligence and drugs to increase empathy." IMHO he was on both the wrong track and the right track. The goals were noble but the method was fraught wiht problems.

What good will unlimited energy long or immortal lifetimes and surplus food do us if we are still killing each other. "Hey Ray work on  bringing peace to Palestine."

V

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Re: ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post

 

I will heavily disagree with you.  technology is the only thing, when used correctly is the only thing that has solved human problems.  Human problems are technical.  Competition has been a part of mankind because mankind had nothing (scarcity) in the begining driving that behavior and perpetuating competition making it seem like it's nature as opposed to behavior and that has always changed.  

I agree Technology is being misused RFID and so on, but again technology is solely responsible for the freeing of humanity from mundane jobs.  We can create abundance and sustainability, it's monetary economics coupled with that behavior of wanting to rule over others that prevents us from changing our value system. 

Technology only goes so far from competition till collaboration takes over and puts in all the missing pieces.  The value system associated with competition has many by products "us vs them" mentality, which is childish.    

What good will unlimited energy long or immortal lifetimes and surplus food do us if we are still killing each other. "Hey Ray work on  bringing peace to Palestine."

If the U.S. was really concerned with peace over in that armpit of the middle east, it would concentrate on bridging the gaps between both sides and make them understand the commonalities, not from a religious view, but from a view that they all need the same resources they are both destroying.  Also both sides have leaders with serious "old ways" of thinking. More proof that old methods cannot be applied to future problems. 

People are also forced into creating technologies that knowingly would not benefit humanity.  

It will take time but we either have sustainability for humanity or we destroy ourselves.  ZM has been the only movement i've seen that has any promises.

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jneo
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Posts: 742
Re: ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post

From ZM website.

 

A common sociological issue has to do with "Human Nature" and its effect in a collective sense. For instance, most people have been taught that human beings are naturally competitive with each other, along with the assumption that social stratification or hierarchy is also a "natural human tendency".

This is a fallacy.

If you look to, say, a pack of lions, you will see social hierarchy and violent competition for food in most cases. This comparison is what leads people to think it is a natural occurrence in human society as well (war, greed, ego, etc.). What is overlooked however, are the Environmental Conditions present in each case. The pack of Lions exist in a world of Scarcity. They do not have the ability to create traps for food, nor is food accessible in an 'on demand' basis. They have to hunt and fight with each other. This creates competition naturally, for in order to survive, the lions MUST be aggressive with each other. In turn, hierarchy is developed for the strongest of these lions wins the most, and in turn exert their dominance in a stratified way.

Likewise, in our current Human Society, the exact same thing is going on. Humans have been living in the same sort of scarcity since the dawn of existence. However, as time has gone on, we have become more and more "civilized" due to our ability to Create. Unlike the Lions, humans are able to create tools and set in motion processes that free the human being from a particular chore or problem, reducing Scarcity.

Given this "insight" we then see that on a fundamental level that if scarcity could be eradicated, then human behavior would undergo a dramatic change, moving away from competition, dominance and stratification.

Likewise, outmoded ideologies that do not stand up to the test of time, such as theistic religion, compound this myth that humans/society are built a certain way. For example, the Catholic ideology states that humans are "born with sin".

This is absurd, outmoded and based on a primitive understanding of human behavior.

There is no difference between a Ghandi baby or a Hitler baby... it is the environment that shapes the person and hence the society (and vice versa).

Therefore, true Sociological change will come from removing the conditions that cause the aberrant behavior patterns which pollute our societies. Prison, Police and Laws are mere patchwork and, in fact, tend to make things worse over time.

Ultimately, it is going to take a redesign of our culture to change human behavior for the better.

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Crash
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Posts: 171
Re: ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post
JK121 wrote:

 

Likewise, outmoded ideologies that do not stand up to the test of time, such as theistic religion, compound this myth that humans/society are built a certain way. For example, the Catholic ideology states that humans are "born with sin".

This is absurd, outmoded and based on a primitive understanding of human behavior.

There is no difference between a Ghandi baby or a Hitler baby... it is the environment that shapes the person and hence the society (and vice versa).

Therefore, true Sociological change will come from removing the conditions that cause the aberrant behavior patterns which pollute our societies. Prison, Police and Laws are mere patchwork and, in fact, tend to make things worse over time.

Ultimately, it is going to take a redesign of our culture to change human behavior for the better.

Hi there,

It seems to me that the ZM has a religious belief in the technology the 'saviour'. This seems as daft to me waiting for the second coming. The video above, 'Zeitgeist activist', addresses the problems of modern society and banking, our lack of control in politics, but does not open up the debate, it shuts it down saying that ZM is the only solution or alternative and if you don't agree with ZM, then you must think the current madnes is ok. It actual says in the movie (not a direct quote you understand), Democracy doesn't matter because we don't have democracy now in the US, so therefore screw democracy, instead of giving up all your power to currupt politicians, give it up to machines.

The reason I posted up a link to the AniMatrix above: intothematrix.com is that this story is in there. There doesn't seem to be any realistic mechanism in the ZM for really devolving power enough BEFORE we switch to a computerworld. This is essential because the powers that be will be pulling all the strings that they can.

I am wary of any 'movement' that doesn't overtly act to help people empower themselves. ZM serves up more opportunity for people to give up their responsibility. We won't even have to decide what to eat because we'll just google it and the nanobots in our blood stream will chat to the mainframe and deliver the requisite nutrients. Efficient yes, but life? no. The main aim of human existence in my opinion is not efficiency, it is wholesome experience. And that includes work, I enjoy working, growing veg etc, I don't want a machine to do that for me, how can a machine put LOVE into my food?

D

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Vanityfox451
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Posts: 1636
Re: ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post

Crash,

will you trust me for a moment with a thought because, after all, we have talked in the past about a few things, though it was a little while ago ...

I feel I need to add something important to this thread. It has been created by JK21, who is bright, young and enthusiastic. He's entered his thought's into the forum where a great many of the politics that rage within it are built upon a platform of politics that is out there, in the real world, that are, in a great many circumstance's, built upon a bias, a religious standpoint and black and white thinking.

To quote something relevant from a book I remember reading called Brick Lane, by Monica Ali: -

"I used to think everything was possible, but now I just want some things to be a certainty... "

Stop and think about that for a moment, remembering that the world outside of here isn't really looking in upon this discussion as a whole, just a few people; a handful, who will hopefully go from here with a few good ideas ...

What I'm trying to explain is that, there are many interpretation's that people make of an idea that can damage the effectiveness of it. The last thing I want to see is the value of that idea being given words such as Religion, Cult or Socialism to it, when I fear there isn't yet an old world term to truthfully describe what it is trying to be ...

So, my question for you is: -

what "positive" rather than "negative" aspect's could you describe of the Zeitgeist Movement?

Affectionately,

~ VF ~

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jneo
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 7 2009
Posts: 742
Re: ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post

It seems to me that the ZM has a religious belief in the technology the 'saviour'.  as opposed to politicians and governments.  Enjoy this next read. 

WEll put VF Wink

 

When we consider the relevance of our social structures and ideologies in society, very often we view governments, politicians and corporations as the guiding organizational and catalystic institutions responsible for the quality of our lives. This is, of course, true... but only to a certain extent. As time has moved forward, human beings have become more and more aware of nature, its processes, and thus have been able to derive inference about how to imitate nature in all its creative glory.

The result has been Technology, which is what separates us humans from the other species as far as functionality. We have the ability to create in very vast ways. If we don't want to clean sewers, we can devise a machine to do it for us.

At the beginning of the Industrial Age, a great majority of people worked in factories. Today, automation comprises 90% of nearly all factories. This has displaced humans and created a large, artificial "service" industry in order to keep humans in employment for money.

This pattern is very revealing. The implication is that machine automation is constantly challenging the role of general human labor. This doesn't mean that humans will have "nothing to do" as time moves on. Quite the contrary... this implication denotes the freeing of humanity from jobs which humans do not care to engage in, so they will have time to pursue what they choose to. As an aside, it is important to point out that society today assumes a very negative posture towards humanity, retaining the belief that if human beings were not "required" to do something, they would just sit around, be lazy, and do nothing. This is absurd propaganda.

The notion of "leisure" is a monetary invention, created because of the oppressive, fascist basis of the employment institution itself. Laziness is, in fact, a form of rejection of the system. It is a quality that only exists due to the oppression and required servitude.

In a true society, there would be no such thing as the separation of "work and "leisure", for humans should be allowed to pursue whatever they feel is relevant. To put it a different way, consider the curiosity and interest of a child. He or she doesn't even know what money is...Do they need to be motivated by money to go out and explore/create? No. They have a personal interest and they pursue it without reward. In fact, the greatest contributors to our society, such as Einstein, Newton or Galileo, pursued what they did without any regard to money. They did it because they wanted to. The act of doing and contributing was their reward.

The point here is that money is not a true incentive for anything and to think as such is to assume that humans are inherently lazy and corrupt. Laziness and corruption are products of the conditioning our social system creates.

Now, coming back to technology, we find that our quality of life, as far as functionality, has been increased greatly by the benefits of the technological tools we create. From a lawn mower to a pace maker, technology saves lives and decreases the amount of time we need to spend on mundane, difficult or dangerous activities. In fact, if one steps back far enough, it becomes clear that Technological development is the most important institution we have and the pursuit of socially helpful technology(not weapons) should be the highest priority of the culture.

At the same time, technological development is brought about by a particular train of thought, or process... this could be called "The Scientific Method". Carl Sagan was once quoted as saying something to the effect of "Society welcomes the gifts of science, but rejects its methods".

This is very true in the modern age, for what the public fails to understand is that science is not just a tool... it is a near universal functionality which can be applied to society in ways many would not think about.

It seems obvious that technology improves our lives and serves as the greatest liberator of human life in the material realm... so why aren't its methods applied to society as a whole?

Obviously, the scientific method is used constantly for isolated systems, but it has never been truly considered in the broadest ways. This is largely due to age old superstitions which battle the logic of science in favor of a dogmatic, outdated and highly romanticized world view.

If we had the option to rebuild a society from scratch, how would we do it to make it the most efficient, sustainable and humane? This is our perspective. Obviously, we cannot build a society from scratch but the point is clear. It is time we stop thinking about monetary concerns and limitations, and begin to think about the possibilities we have here on earth in the broadest sense.

It is this interest that has created the concept of a 'Resource Based Economy'. The Venus project has been working on this concept for a long time and its foundation is very simple. We survey, preserve and maximize our use of planetary resources in conjunction with open information and technological development.

In this view, little is left to subjective interpretation, for it is a scientifically derived strategy for social construction at the very core. From there, the scientific parameters work themselves out as far as possibilities.

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