The World After Abundance

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The World After Abundance

John Michael Greer -- the Archdruid of the Archdruid Report -- has posted an essay of the sort that makes me go "thud" -- as in, I bump up against what he's talking about and I have no riposte to fend off what he's asserting.  This particular "thud" is about how the changes now coming down the pike cannot be negotiated with, nor ignored, nor rationalized away.  They're coming.  They'll change the way we live.  No negotiation.  Just coping.  Fine work from a keen mind.  Here's the link:

http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/

Viva -- Sager

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The philosophy of the Real.

"Oh for Pete's sake get real". How often have you heard that?

There is a disconnect between Reality and our perception of it.

Please understand, you must first have a healthy brain before you can begin. Most folk I meet show signs of malfunction. They have an inability to concentrate and it stresses them to try.

The first thing you have to do is eat right.

These universal traditions were once the only version of history we had, they describe the onset and progression of a neurodegenerative condition that really has left us in the dark.

http://leftinthedark.org.uk/book

The next thing you have to do is get enough sleep. The electric light bulb has a lot to answer for.

The other thing that it pays to study is how your two brains work. How they sometimes co-operate and sometimes it is a all out power struggle. In a nutshell, you are not one person.

http://www.iainmcgilchrist.com/The_Master_and_his_Emissary_by_McGilchris...

So Step 1 Eat right. Step 2Sleep Step 3 Study the thing that perceives.

Here is what waits for us

Chaos and escape or extinction. We have to go off-planet. We have out-grown our welcome here.

Now off to sleep.

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more monkeys = less

more monkeys = less everything, except for misery

less monkeys = more function aka life

therefore, more is less = less is more

this is the monkey-fist conundrum writ large (at the planetary scale)

Peak Monkey = Peak Pain

bye bye monkeys

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thanks Arthur

Arthur,

Many of the people who helped make this site so fascinating and informative have, unfortunately, left.  I'm thinking of folks like strabes, Cloudfire, DrKrbyLuv, Gungnir and Plinkety Cat, Erik Townsend, etc. I was pondering the other day if it's worth my time to keep hanging around here (other than to read Chris's stuff).  Then I came upon two of the nuggets that you offered.  Fascinating books that I plan to read.  Thanks for those pearls and for giving me a reason to keep reading.  

 "Know where to find the information and how to use it - that's the secret to success."   Einstein   

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It's nature's way of telling you something's wrong
Arthur Robey wrote:

"Oh for Pete's sake get real". How often have you heard that?

There is a disconnect between Reality and our perception of it.

I have personally encountered this with increasing frequency over the last 15 years.  It is the heart of the Crash Course and the 3Es. I formulated a sentence to summarize this.

"Many people raised in a Disneyland culture have no clue that the law of natural selection has not been repealed."

Travlin

 

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John Michael Greer

I read John Michael Greer about every week, which is when he releases a new blog entry.

He's like the elder stateman, village elder, long-range deep thinker - everything a modern archdruid should be, if you will - of the Peak Oil awareness movement. I try to post links to essays of his from time to time, but the traction just isn't here, it seems.

But we do need thinkers and visionaries and guides like Greer.

Thanks for reminding me that some good people here are reading him.

Poet

 

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Arthur Robey said: Quote:We

Arthur Robey said:

Quote:

We have to go off-planet.

If that's true, we are a doomed species.

Doug

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g'day ao
ao wrote:

Arthur,

Many of the people who helped make this site so fascinating and informative have, unfortunately, left. 

Hey ao.......  I'm still here  ;)

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ao, say it isn't so.
ao wrote:

Arthur,

Many of the people who helped make this site so fascinating and informative have, unfortunately, left.  I'm thinking of folks like strabes, Cloudfire, DrKrbyLuv, Gungnir and Plinkety Cat, Erik Townsend, etc. I was pondering the other day if it's worth my time to keep hanging around here (other than to read Chris's stuff).  Then I came upon two of the nuggets that you offered.  Fascinating books that I plan to read.  Thanks for those pearls and for giving me a reason to keep reading.  

 "Know where to find the information and how to use it - that's the secret to success."   Einstein   

Add to that list Davos, machinehead, and Morpheus and it's easy to become dejected.

ao, if it's any consolation, I find your contributions here very rewarding and I believe others do too. If you were to fade away your absence would be dispiriting, like that of those already mentioned.

Hope it doesn't come to that.

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earthwise wrote: ao, if it's
earthwise wrote:

ao, if it's any consolation, I find your contributions here very rewarding and I believe others do too. If you were to fade away your absence would be dispiriting, like that of those already mentioned.

Hope it doesn't come to that.

I feel the same.  I also miss Yobob1.  He didn't post often but he was good. 

Travlin 

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earthwise wrote: Add to that
earthwise wrote:

Add to that list Davos, machinehead, and Morpheus and it's easy to become dejected.

Thanks earthwise and Travlin.  I appreciate those comments.  Dang, how could I have forgotten Davos?  He was a one man posting army.  I loved his posts.  And the others too as well as a host of posters that are still here like JAG, DIAP, SagerXX, FullMoon, etc.    

And DTM, I appreciate your posts too, even though I may disagree with you from time to time.  I even appreciate VF's posts ... well some of them at least, especially if they were kept under the size of Webster's Unabridged Dictionary.;-)

It's interesting how sites go through an evolution though.  I was on a car site about 12 years ago and it had some of the sharpest technical people I've ever come across ... just a real interesting crew that knew a lot about a lot of different subjects and issues.  It started devolving though as folks who bought the car new started moving on and a second generation of folks who bought the car used started moving in.  Going back there now , it's like visiting a kindergarten of the offspring of a match between Charlie Manson and Brittany Spears.

While Chris's posts have been consistently outstanding, it's hard not to notice that we've explored a host of topics upside down and inside out and there's not much more to say about many of the topics.  In many areas, the time for talk is over and the time for doing is upon us (this said after redoing and putting in a total of 8 raised bed gardens this weekend and having that good feeling of having worked my muscles well).  

Also, there seems to be a more recent increasing influx of newer posters, many of whom, in my opinion, just don't seem to have as much to offer as some of the older crew.  That may just be my perception rather than reality but I can't help what I feel and those are my feelings (yes, pure feeling, opinion, and belief unsubstantiated by hard data).  The one thing I have the least of is time so I've been spending less time here but still checking in from time to time during the day when I can.  Truth be told, I obviously get a lot more done spending less time here so the future trend I see for myself is obvious. 

 

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I hear you
ao wrote:

While Chris's posts have been consistently outstanding, it's hard not to notice that we've explored a host of topics upside down and inside out and there's not much more to say about many of the topics.  In many areas, the time for talk is over and the time for doing is upon us ...

... so I've been spending less time here but still checking in from time to time during the day when I can.  Truth be told, I obviously get a lot more done spending less time here ...

Ao

I hear you.  I’m a relative newcomer, just over a year, but things seem to have changed a good bit over that time.  As you say, our perceptions are subjective.  Sometimes the changes are more internal than external.  A forum is a dynamic entity with a lot of factors interacting.

How long has a person pursued awareness of these matters?

Have informed have they become in that time?

What conclusions have they reached?

How much do these differ from their old world view?

How have they reacted emotionally, and what stage are they in now?

How old are they and how experienced of life in general?

Have they chosen to make preparations?

How long and how extensively have they been preparing?

How comfortable are they in posting comments and starting threads?

Members are all over the map in geography, emotion, knowledge, actions, and time spent here.  After a while it is natural that some of the excitement wears off as the same topics are repeated by people who are new, as we once were.  They are new to them.  Forums go through cycles and can also improve over time.

I miss the veterans, but I can’t find it in me to step up and start interesting threads myself.  I’m shifting to less talk and more action in making preparations.  I’m sure that’s common for people who have been here a while.  Besides it’s spring and I want to be outside now.  I will stay active in the forums, but I will be more focused on using the information I am learning here.

Travlin

 

PS  Erik T just reappeared.  Post 18.

http://www.peakprosperity.com/martensoninsider/housing-tumbles-or-why-us...

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Travlin Quote: I miss the

Travlin

Quote:

I miss the veterans, but I can’t find it in me to step up and start interesting threads myself.  I’m shifting to less talk and more action in making preparations.  I’m sure that’s common for people who have been here a while.  Besides it’s spring and I want to be outside now.  I will stay active in the forums, but I will be more focused on using the information I am learning here.

I think this is a normal seasonal cycle around here.  When springtime comes, people who are serious about preparing are planting gardens and building projects that increase resilience in their lives.  It's also vacation season.  Our long ingrained behavior patterns aren't completely abandoned, we still like to get away to places we associate with pleasure, reflection and rest.  Vacations are particularly important when I think that, for a variety of reasons, some of these retreats may not be so readily available in the not-too-distant future.  Plus, there are simple pleasures like bicycling, lounging under a copse watching nature run through her cycles and taking walks in the woods that distract us from the serious business of charting our economic and environmental courses.  And, of course, its baseball season.  Cool  Life is still good.

Doug

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  We are all at different

  We are all at different levels   but I personally  think  It is a challenge to remove the world from the sanctuary of your home . Making it a retreat from the worlds busyness and chaos  is more important to some and one worth pursuing .I think   in this world after abundance we may well have time to see how important this could be.

 We get cause up in philosophies and the news of the day , we take on our pet peeves and get on the latest band wagon  often offending those that truly have much in common.

Some have the gift of excellent speech , some have true wisdom from experience ,  many get puffed up and self-exalting  . Some have just got good old boy common sense .   Each have their eyes open to things at different levels and different times . It is a journey to awareness .

After Abundance we will have many things out of our way that cause us to run here and there trying to find the newest little pleasure and we may  well get right back to the basics of what it truly important and satisfying .

 Overextending ourselves in Any way will rob us of  joy .We will be so busy chasing our own tail  to where we have no time to enjoy the amazing things before us.  We get tired , we get grumpy . We grump at the children , we grump at the spouse , we grump at our friends  until all those that love and care for us are repelled away  .

 There was amazing world before electricity and still there was abundance . Whether you are an evolutionist and your earth has many 0's in its age or you are a creationist and it only has a few. It is still an Amazing universe and here for us to take care of and  enjoy .

    I can get as much pleasure out of lemonade watching the hummingbirds at the feeder and the grandchildren plying in a puddle of water as I did traveling down the Rhine river on vacation   .. It all comes down to being satisfied and  being content with what we have .  This is a choice that we have to make .  It is people that love us that bring us joy not the things that we so knock ourselves out trying to gather .  We just have to take time to be aware ..  Less electronic stimulus  more joy .  It is a gift to be simple ... that's my story of the day .. I am sticking to it and heading out to garden  Smile

 I know mine is not the gift of wonderful writing and I appreciate the patience it takes on the part of those to whom it comes easy .  But encouraging I can be .   If everyone here can share their gift freely without condemnation  we will be a much better for it .

  I agree with Travelin  it would help us all to hear how  the people who are further down the road  have changed their views and some of their actions to fit the the coming world .

 FM

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Don't abandon us!

I am relatively new;  It has almost been a year since I first found this site.

I already knew the country was headed for trouble, and was having nightmares of things that I have since seen happening through the news here.   Had my father lived, he would have loved this place too.  He had the vision of peak oil and some of the same political vision as Chris some forty years ago, and prepared for a power down which did not happen in his lifetime.

I am not a scientist, a mathematician, nor an economist.  I have little to offer in the realm of technology.  I don't even have much experience to offer.  I am mainly learning.

In the last year I have done a lot of reading.  Aside from the Crash Course, I have gone through the archives.  I have read through the Daily Digest until I  can almost predict from a headline what will be behind it.  i have absolutely loved the videos and articles of forward thinking writers and investors.  I have been horrified by learning in more detail what our greedy growth is doing to the planet..  I have soaked in the experience of members here who have given their time, experience, and enthusiasm to newcomers.  I have absolutely loved the practical experience of those who have been prepping and planting and preparing,  I have enjoyed the humor that has come from experience.   I have appreciated the courtesy and understanding that is the norm here, and been shocked by the rude postings of newcomers who have come in with an agenda, or just have not beleived the evidence of our eventual demise.

I can add that the gloom and doom is downright depressing, and watching the world fall apart in slow motion is a morbid preoccupation.  The one happy place I have gotten out of this has been out in the garden, and the knowledege that at least I am more self-sufficient than I was.  A big part of the encouragement to do that has come from the members who have continued to support each other here. 

 

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It's the thoughts that count
Full Moon wrote:

I know mine is not the gift of wonderful writing and I appreciate the patience it takes on the part of those to whom it comes easy .  But encouraging I can be .   If everyone here can share their gift freely without condemnation  we will be a much better for it .

Full Moon

What counts are the thoughts, not the wording.  You contribute plenty.  Glad you got your browser problem fixed.

Travlin 

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I find myself woefully

I find myself woefully unprepared for what may come. The only thing I can do now is work extra hard to earn those federal reserve notes in order to be better prepared.

 

 

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Travlin wrote: Full Moon
Travlin wrote:
Full Moon wrote:

I know mine is not the gift of wonderful writing and I appreciate the patience it takes on the part of those to whom it comes easy .  But encouraging I can be .   If everyone here can share their gift freely without condemnation  we will be a much better for it .

Full Moon

What counts are the thoughts, not the wording.  You contribute plenty.  Glad you got your browser problem fixed.

Travlin 

I second Travlin...  It's a pleasure to have you back, FM!

Viva -- Sager

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Hi, and thanks

Perhaps it's time to speak up a bit.  Maybe it will help the old-timers to know that some of us newcomers are watching and learning from you. I'm fairly new to the CM site and have barely posted, but have been reading here voraciously almost daily.  I deeply appreciate the quality of communication you all offer.  I was already taking lots of action, but your thoughts and information-gathering help me stay on track now that the initial shock/panic/obsession stage is fading into a new world view.  Your contributions are informing and motivating and more. 

About me -

I am leaving the city in a few days for my village homestead (raggedy cabin and scrubby yard, but good water and exposure) in the interior of BC, having sold the condo and left the job recently.  It's time to see if I can handle the building/gardening/learning to hunt/community-building set of skills.  I grew up home-schooled and off the grid, carrying water and splitting wood, so parts of it will come naturally.  The rest - ask me next summer!  If I'm still crashing in the tent, you'll know there were some problems....

My best skills are more internal.  I have been cultivating the ability to work with emotions, including those that paralyse, blind and disempower otherwise beautiful bright minds.  It's good to be able to face grief, or shock, or rage and stay my course.  It's good to be able to help a friend do the same.  It's fun to turn the heart/mind loose on a freaky topic and watch them work their way to clarity.  It's also increasingly important functionally for me to be able to see and feel the reality that I and we have been given all manner of exquisite things and experiences by this planet.  It's part of my mental health now - while cultivating awareness of collapsing monetary systems or unsolvable nuclear waste situations or food crises or ?- to just as firmly lay claim to how much this whole Earth lifetime experience has meant to me so far, and to be grateful.  And I am, heart and soul.  What a ride! 

It would be lovely if the more experienced transition-thinkers would stick around longer.  I'll be soaking it up!  If you have to go, thanks for this amazing resource, and go well with your next project.  Your awareness will be useful wherever you go. 

Susan

 

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SagerXX wrote: Travlin
SagerXX wrote:
Travlin wrote:
Full Moon wrote:

I know mine is not the gift of wonderful writing and I appreciate the patience it takes on the part of those to whom it comes easy .  But encouraging I can be .   If everyone here can share their gift freely without condemnation  we will be a much better for it .

Full Moon

What counts are the thoughts, not the wording.  You contribute plenty.  Glad you got your browser problem fixed.

Travlin 

I second Travlin...  It's a pleasure to have you back, FM!

Viva -- Sager

Third.  You write from the heart FM which is what counts.

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Sager, what a rich thread

Sager, what a rich thread this has become!   Also, thanks for reminding us about Michael Greer and his site.  His view is a welcomed complement to others I am already aware of.

Travlin wrote:

"Many people raised in a Disneyland culture have no clue that the law of natural selection has not been repealed."

Travlin

Travlin, I cracked up when I read your saying!  Too true!!

Full Moon wrote:

  We are all at different levels...

  We get cause up in philosophies and the news of the day , we take on our pet peeves and get on the latest band wagon  often offending those that truly have much in common.

Some have the gift of excellent speech , some have true wisdom from experience ,  many get puffed up and self-exalting  . Some have just got good old boy common sense .   Each have their eyes open to things at different levels and different times . It is a journey to awareness .

Full Moon, I love your good heart and earthly wisdom.  Truth, goodness and wisdom bestow their own elegance on words. 

Thank-you to the new posters who made the effort  to express gratitude here.   I can't speak for anyone else, but I know it meant a lot to me. 

Full Moon wrote:

I can get as much pleasure out of lemonade watching the hummingbirds at the feeder and the grandchildren plying in a puddle of water as I did traveling down the Rhine river on vacation

Susan wrote:

It's also increasingly important functionally for me to be able to see and feel the reality that I and we have been given all manner of exquisite things and experiences by this planet.  It's part of my mental health now - while cultivating awareness of collapsing monetary systems or unsolvable nuclear waste situations or food crises or ?- to just as firmly lay claim to how much this whole Earth lifetime experience has meant to me so far, and to be grateful.

I have been wanting to start a thread on moments of joy and gratitude...you guys are already there!  I felt such simple joy a few weeks ago when I saw my blueberry bushes, which I thought had not made it through the winter, sprouting new leaves.  -And then again when I looked over my growing little fruit orchard, seeing that it really is evolving beautifully (slowly, painstakingly, but beautifully!).  I saw my son make his first catch of a pop-fly in a baseball game.  These are good things!

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Herewego , We will all be

Herewego , We will all be waiting for your posts on how the transition goes .. Post  the good and bad  as we can learn much from both ways .You have already captured our  hearts .   We can not stop the monetary collapse but being content with such things that we have and do the best we can....  just to stop  appreciate each and every minute as a gift .  We can count it all joy .

@ Pinecarr ,   my husband calls people such as I , easy keepers !    He laughs at me  finding a good deal on canning jars at the thrift shop, that I and my friend have kindred spirits on finding a new way to mix up an herbal tincture ,  or that I too can get so very excited that my blueberries survived  !! sawdust ,sawdust , sawdust !

   Personally I would so love to hear how Gungir is surviving in Alaska after his first year up there. I have recently gotten ahold of an old girl friend that has started a homestead in Alaska  and she posts awesome pictures on FB . OH MY the extra struggles she goes through  to  work  things out up there! She is my hero ... doing her wash in a creek for several years with a large family .  She took an old satalite dish and made the cutes little hog shed .. so creative and recycled !!

 I can't figure out how to down size pictures small enough to post our place on here.It is not fancy and ALWAYS needing repairs  but we are seeing progress !

 This week we had a clutch of chicks hatch and to see the joy in my baby granddaughters eyes as she was so entertained by them .

 WOW ,  Did you see the sunset  tonight ?   It was so amazing that I just had to stop and take it in !     Four of my  kids too  stopped what they were doing   and came to watch it with  me.  Everything was so quiet as we  just watched  it slide away .  There are moments like these that are truly priceless to me .  I felt like it was painted special just for me .

 I am looking forward to all of your AWE moments .   They are just uplifting and can help us stay the course set before us.

 FM .

 

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OK, Full Moon, I'll let you know how it goes!

Thanks for bringing your rich perspective and generous heart to the site.

SagarXX, I re-read the Greer posting you started with.  It hit more the second time around.  It seems a lot will be wasted on trying to keep massive, inefficient, doomed infrastructures going because we can't (en masse anyway) imagine other approaches (yet).  Lately I have stopped kicking so hard about wanting people, including those I love, to wake up and make changes.  It came to me that while we do all have influence now, many shifts of awareness will only come when an impact is finally felt.  I can't force that human process.  It feels more grounded to relax my heart, accept that this part of the picture like it or not, and look for what's next on my path.

Meanwhile, from my childhhood I know that life without electricity is just A-OK.  We didn't even have "new-fangled" technology - just batteries for radio, kerosene for light and wood for heat.  It was very quiet.  No motors running anywhere unless we started the car.  I have missed that kind of silence all my life since.  It has a blessedness to it that's difficult to explain.  From a child's perspective it didn't seem hard except when we had to get the wood in for winter.  We did more physical work, but a very good life can be had without wall-socket electricity.

Of course a system-wide situation that also reduces liquid fuel, currency stability and food supplies is a different beast. 

SagerXX, your "Show some %&*!# adaptability" tagline makes me laugh and re-direct many times a week.

Gotta go pack for the big move!  Happy gardening, Ya'll.

Susan

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Internal Skills
herewego wrote:

My best skills are more internal.  I have been cultivating the ability to work with emotions, including those that paralyse, blind and disempower otherwise beautiful bright minds.  It's good to be able to face grief, or shock, or rage and stay my course.  It's good to be able to help a friend do the same. 

Susan

 

 

I think your skills in helping people see more clearly and avoid depression and rage will be desperately needed in the coming new "world-made-by-hand"*.  I have friends and acquaintances who are already morose because they've had to downscale their materialistic lifestyles.  They've chosen to mope and complain rather than do anything constructive and just don't seem to grasp that the American Dream of a comparatively luxurious life in the suburbs and a retirement filled with glamorous travel and golf are no longer in the cards.

As a Christian, I've long been appalled by rampant worship of Mammon.  It also strikes me as quite odd that so many people see money as an end in itself when what we need are clean water, healthy food, and adequate shelter (including clothing), along with a community of people who are family in one way or another.  There are ways to obtain the material things we need without using money, at least as we know it today, and the right attitude, a spirit of creativity, and some reliable friends can't be bought anywhere.  I have fears that many gentle folk are going to just lay down and die when TSHTF and that those who are not so gentle are going to rampage and loot.

 

*Plagarized from James Howard Kunstler's book, World Made By Hand.  He is also the author of The Long Emergency, my first and scariest heads-up regarding Peak Oil.

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AWE Moments
Full Moon wrote:

 I am looking forward to all of your AWE moments .   They are just uplifting and can help us stay the course set before us.

 FM .

 

I had hoped to retire by this time (a long, unpleasant story about working for the state and health insurance here), so early this spring I went full bore with getting my tiny suburban lot as productive as possible.  Despite continuing to work - although not for much longer - I've been able to get a remarkable amount accomplished with the help of my Yard Guy and some cash.  The revered Yard Guy applied a thick layer of organic mulch with manure to my beds back in April and I was recently amazed to see a few berries on my brand new blueberry bushes, which were planted a few weeks later, and not-so-new spearmint plants with leaves bigger than quarters.

Lattice was applied to the open areas of my small porch, largely to keep birds from zooming through and making a mess, and also to provide some vertical growth area.  At the moment my eleven year old Jackmanii Clematis looks stunning climbing up the side and my cucumber seeds, which will replace the June-blooming Clematis, sprouted within a few days and are well on their way amid a tiny herb garden of lavender and chamomile.  As a bonus, the lattice apparently disrupted the birds' flight pattern and my ungaraged car has remained clean.

Leaf lettuce planted in pots in April, a defensive maneuver to avoid having my greens devoured by bunnies, spilled over and provided plenty for salads and sandwiches for one person.  I can hardly wait to see what Swiss Chard and Deer Tongue Lettuce do during the summer.

 

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Yeah, this thread...

Might be a candidate for "most usefully off topic" -- or at least "wandering constructively".

So many fine thoughts above. A few thoughts of my own:

There is, on forums such as these, always turnover in the community. Old timers fade away or take long breaks, newcomers arrive to good or ill effect. A natural lifecycle of interaction and withdrawal arises, and over time the community fades or thrives, depending on whether enough good new blood arrives to replace the loss of some longtime members. Although sometimes old timers suddenly reappear and surprise you (such as the recent posts by Switters and Erik T). This community is, I think, somewhere in its third major cycle. I believe I arrived at the end of the first or beginning of the second.

I myself have been less a presence here of late. I'm currently consumed with a host of stuff (definitely going to lose our house, working on the garden, never ending efforts to foster community, wife just had mid-level surgery [all is now well], other preps...uh...reading Harry Potter with my little brother) that keeps me away. It seems,however, that the world at large, and this world here, can carry on in my absence. Which is a fine thing.

My other big work right now is to work through another layer of Just Letting Go of what the old world was (snorris your fine posts touched on this personal work), currently in the shape of the house. Funny thing is, I think I'm better built for life with less than I am for material plenty. I will certainly be finding out for sure before too long. [grin]

Right, gotta go. Work calls. Please forgive typos & crummy formatting. This keyboard is the very epitome of Sub Optimal.

Viva -- Sager

Travlin's picture
Travlin
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 15 2010
Posts: 1322
SagerXX wrote: Funny thing
SagerXX wrote:

Funny thing is, I think I'm better built for life with less than I am for material plenty.

Sager

That is a fine quality to have Sager.  You should do well.

Travlin 

trwiley's picture
trwiley
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 11 2009
Posts: 78
The World with Abundance like we've never experienced

I want to preface this post with a mention that I enjoy and respect the work and writings of James Howard Kuenstler, Michael C. Rupert, John Michael Greer, et al. These are the folks who believe that humanity and civilization will collapse into a simpler state, a world made by hand.

As much as I think this is a likely outcome, it's not a foregone conclusion. Correction. It is indeed a foregone conclusion as long as we hang on to the monetary system. Capitalism and the monetary system are like cancerous cells destined to destroy the host and themselves. So everything will indeed collapse under status quo.

I want to challenge the notion of Greer's article about life after abundance. First off, any so-called abundance has only been experienced by a fraction of the world's population. Most of humanity has not experienced the abundance that first-world countries have.

Second, our economic systems are not based on abundance, but instead require and thrive off of scarcity. To paraphrase Ruppert, corporations profit off of problems, not off of solving those problems.

Third, if we get rid of money--move to a resource-based economy--we would be able to provide abundance the likes of which we have never, ever experienced, and for everyone, not just the priveledged few.

Regarding energy, the only thing holding us back is money. We have an abundance of geothermal, wind, solar, and other energy sources to fulfill all our needs. But they simply cost too much. What if we had the resources, had the technology, had the will, and money was not an issue? Iit could be accomplished in no time.

I know some of you are tired of hearing about the Zeitgeist movement, but I don't think we need to resign ourselves to the bleak future as depicted by the aforementioned luminaries, a future filled with primitive existence, fighting off starving marauders, living off of canned food, living the life as depicted in "The Road".

What if? What if there's a chance in hell that a resource based economy--a world without money--could work? What if your child, or grandchildren, could grow up in a world based on abundance, not scarcity? Would you be willing to consider a paradigm change for that possible future?  What do you have to lose, if things will get as bad as you seem to think they will?

 

 

Damnthematrix's picture
Damnthematrix
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 10 2008
Posts: 3998
it's the energy density stupid........
trwiley wrote:

Regarding energy, the only thing holding us back is money. We have an abundance of geothermal, wind, solar, and other energy sources to fulfill all our needs. But they simply cost too much. What if we had the resources, had the technology, had the will, and money was not an issue? Iit could be accomplished in no time.

I agree with some of your ideas......  especially getting rid of money, but I'm afraid you don't not seem to understand energy density.  Cost is only a small problem wrt energy, the biggie is ERoEI.

Eighty years ago, we started building this system when 100 barrels of oil could be harvested for every one invested.  That's an ERoEI of 100:1.  Today, that EERoEI is down to 5 or 4 or sometimes even less.

I urge you to return to the Crash Course and look at energy budgeting again.....  Chris has done the very best job of explaining this I have seen anywhere.  You need to understand the graph with red above the curve and green below.  You MUST!!

Mike

trwiley's picture
trwiley
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 11 2009
Posts: 78
Money and abundance
Damnthematrix wrote:

Cost is only a small problem wrt energy, the biggie is ERoEI.

I fully understand ERoEI. But much of what goes into the calculation of ERoEI is based on monetary or economic considerations. As stated on wikipedia "there is no agreed standard on which activities should be included in measuring the EROEI of an economic process".  "Energy return on energy invested does not take into account the factor of time". "Conventional economic analysis has no formal accounting rules for the consideration of waste products that are created in the production of the ultimate output." "EROEI is only one consideration and may not be the most important one in energy policy."

The question to ask is do we have the energy resources (geothermal, solar, wind, etc.) Yes.

Do we have the technology to harvest them? Yes.

Do you have any doubt that the technological advances have been squelched by TPTB (Who Killed the Electric Car)?

Does our current consumptive paradigm lead to incredible waste of resources (The Story of Stuff)? Yes

Do the alternatives cost too much? Yes, and that's the problem...money.

If we were to adopt a resource based economy, based on a new paradigm that emphasizes "access" rather than ownership, we could radically increase our energy efficiency and provide abundance for all. 

Saffron's picture
Saffron
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 29 2009
Posts: 250
How does resource-based economy work?
trwiley wrote:

If we were to adopt a resource based economy, based on a new paradigm that emphasizes "access" rather than ownership, we could radically increase our energy efficiency and provide abundance for all. 

I'll admit I haven't had time to watch the whole Zeitgeist movie so I don't quite understand the concept and am looking, I guess, for a synopsis here. Is it possible to explain it in a shortened version? I love the idea of taking money out of the picture, but it seems to me it needs to be replaced with ... something. 

~ s

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