Wind belt generators

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Wind belt generators

Its always the same for me, a couple of days after I put down a deposit for a solar sysyem, I come across a recent invention that would knock the socks off the current cost of solar and wind generators.  Its called a wind belt generator, and information on the web is pretty slim.  Another benefit is it doesn't take more than 3(?)-8-10mph winds to for it to start working.  One neighbor put money down for a set, honestly not even sure if that is wind belt driven, but he's not going to get a unit to install until fall. 

Anyone else know about the latest-greatest-cheapest wind generators?

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Re: Wind belt generators

Hi,

I remember seeing the video of the young inventor, though, it seems like it is very much in the testing stage and not quite ready for prime time.

An option is the MotorWind system developed in Hong Kong.  The web site is cheesy, but the technology looks promising and the product seems to be available now.

http://www.motorwavegroup.com/new/motorwind/index.html

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Re: Wind belt generators

I'm very satified with my Southwest Windpower Whisper 100.  Made in Flagstaff, Arizona. Very hardy in extreme N.E. Colorado winds and quiet to boot. Remember for every dollar you spend on efficiency you'll save 3-5 dollars on generation. Check out Homepower.com and Kansas Wind Power.

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Re: Wind belt generators

Finally found the product that my neighbor probably bought, he wouldn't tell me what it was directly, its pretty new stuff.  Will contact them ASAP and report back.

article here:

http://blog.mlive.com/chronicle/2008/06/invention_brings_wind_energy_h.html

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Re: Wind belt generators

Interesting, but look what just one of many posters comments have to say.

"According to Consumers Energy the average customer's monthly
electricity bill is 72 dollars. This thing can save the average
consumer 20 percent on his electric bill which is around 15 dollars a
month or 180 dollars a year. If you add in 500 bucks to install and
wire this thing in, it would take about 14 years a current energy rates
for it to pay for itself. It may take a lot longer if you only save 10
percent (the developer says 10-20%) on your energy bill with it. The
other kicker is- is that wind turbine going to last 14 years or more
sitting on a roof top and enduring those Michigan winters? There might
be better ways to save on your electric bill."

I think it would be better to have the 15,000 model and completely end dependence on any utility comopany, by achieving the 1.5 kilowatts that homes use. Then there is the conversion cost of DC to AC? At least in solar there is. Not sure about wind.

I think I'll wait till prices come down...........

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Re: Wind belt generators

1-1.5 kilowatts? Man, we only use .75!  True, there are remaining questions I am trying to get answered, 1)inverters? 2) can they be serially installed to gen more wattage? I think the base model generates 1500 watts.  But based on a projected cost of 2000 per 1500 watts, its at or near the current rebates offered.  Its not Monday yet, so am still waiting to make that call.

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Re: Wind belt generators

Earthtronics is coming out in fall with a "turbine in a box" about 1500watts for 4000, which isn't that different than solar panels which go about 270watts for 1000.  PV lasts 25 years, don't know how long these turbines will go. 

My neighbor really thinks he is getting a great system, but he mistakenly thinks the power company will give him a rebate for a non-grid tied system, to which I called the local power company and they dont give away money for nothing.

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Re: Wind belt generators

on the thread of alternatives to mainstream alternatives I've been reading up on Human power. I just bought a book called The Human Powered Home and I also remembered bookmarking a construction guide for a pedal powered generator.

I plan on setting up a cycle powered water pump to go from my spring/well to a large resevoir higher up on a hill and hooking up a cycle powered generator to compliment my solar pannels for charging my batteries. It will be a challenge but a lot of fun to do at the same time. Wheither SHTF or not I'm just too damn cheap to bother buying a generator!

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Re: Wind belt generators

Good luck with that.......  Unless you're Lance Armstrong, you'll be flat out generating 100W.  100W pumps are pretty useless decices, most swimming pool pumps are 1500W.  Our solar panels generate 1280W.  To generate as much energy as they produce, you'd have to pedal 40 hours a day, every day.

You'll be doing a LOT of pedalling (24/7?), effort which in my opinion  would be far better spent gardening or something,

It's unfortunate that people do not understand energy....  E = Power x Time

Mike 

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Re: Wind belt generators
Damnthematrix wrote:

Good luck with that.......  Unless you're Lance Armstrong, you'll be flat out generating 100W. 

It's unfortunate that people do not understand energy....  E = Power x Time

Mike 

Mike,

Why don't you back off. You can be so full of yourself at times, well most of the time.

While I don't know the kind of pump Ruhh is talking about, I personally have a hand pump that does lots of work in a little time. You don't have to convert to electricity and then back to mechanical if you are starting with mechanical.

You don't know the distances being pumped, quantities, or really anything, now do you? 1500 watts will fill a huge pool in a matter of hours, and is way overkill for the amount of water I use, how 'bout you?

For you to come out like that and assault someone for no good reason is nothing but rude, and I just don't see why you need to go there. Ask a question or 2 and try to help, don't just be a jerk. No one wants to hear it.

Rog

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Re: Wind belt generators
R_Eddy wrote:
Damnthematrix wrote:

Good luck with that.......  Unless you're Lance Armstrong, you'll be flat out generating 100W. 

It's unfortunate that people do not understand energy....  E = Power x Time

Mike 

Mike,

Why don't you back off. You can be so full of yourself at times, well most of the time.

While I don't know the kind of pump Ruhh is talking about, I personally have a hand pump that does lots of work in a little time. You don't have to convert to electricity and then back to mechanical if you are starting with mechanical.

You don't know the distances being pumped, quantities, or really anything, now do you? 1500 watts will fill a huge pool in a matter of hours, and is way overkill for the amount of water I use, how 'bout you?

For you to come out like that and assault someone for no good reason is nothing but rude, and I just don't see why you need to go there. Ask a question or 2 and try to help, don't just be a jerk. No one wants to hear it.

Rog

 Whoa!

Thanks for the back-up Rog and you are completely right about mechanical pumps.

 

Mike

Why the hell would I cycle to generate electricity to power a pump when I can rig mechanical power using gears and pulleys? The plan is simply to rig up some hand pumps to the cycle to bring the water (only for drinking) up about 50ft(max). I have a much smaller hand pump at my other camp doing about half that and hardly takes any effort at all.

With regards to electricity, it's a matter of generating a bit of extra juice for lighting (using strickly LEDs) and perhaps to power a radio or charge a laptop. And again, there is a lot you can accomplish with proper gearing especially when your needs are minimal, not to mention my gf will enjoy the workout ;-)

Cheers
r.

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Re: Wind belt generators
Ruhh wrote:

 Whoa!

Thanks for the back-up Rog and you are completely right about mechanical pumps.

My pleasure.

I find condescension intolerable.  Mike is right about many things, but it always seems to get lost in his delivery.

Rog 

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Re: Wind belt generators

It's all very well for you to say I'm full of myself Rog, but I happen to be full of knowledge...  PLUS, unlike the great majority of people on this site, I'm trained in ENERGY matters, and find economics somewhat befuddling.  So when I see people blinded by optimism in things they have not tried, well, I feel like I should enlighten them

As you may know, we live in a state of the art energy and water efficient house here.  The SMALLEST pump I could buy to lift water from our water tank to the house plumbing is 750W.  The highest level it has to lift to is the shower, ~14 ft.  The water comes out the taps in the bathroom (the farthest point from the pump, and 3/4 inch plumbing) so slowly, it takes two minutes to fill the handbasin.  Now I'm not complaining about this, it saves huge amounts of water, you can literally wash your hands in a couple of pints of water.  What I'm getting at here is that if that's all you get out of 750W. what will you get out of 100W??

If you don't like the message, don't shoot the messenger 

I don't see how saying "good luck with that" is rude.  I qualified my statement with factual examples, and have done again here.  What I say is this, manual labour is best spent  doing what manual labour is godd at, and generating energy while it is still possible to use a solar panel is simply silly.  In the time it takes you to pump a few gallons of watermanually, you could be planting several hundred square feet of food, or building chicken housing or fencing.

 

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Re: Wind belt generators

Ruhh,

Gearing doesn't come into it, it's ENERGY that matters....  Gearing allows you to do something really hard (like cycling up a very steep hill), only very slowly!  That means you'll only spend more time away from doing something more important.

50 ft is a long way to pump water.  It's less distance than what I described in my response to Rog...  Most of the water we use is only lifter 8 ft as well....  and a 750W pump is only just up to the job...

What you MUST realise is that, just to generate 1 kWhr of ENERGY (whether electrical or mechanical) you'd have to pedal for ten hours.......  and a kWhr is bugger all energy.

Mike 

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Re: Wind belt generators
investorzzo wrote:

Interesting, but look what just one of many posters comments have to say.

"According to Consumers Energy the average customer's monthly electricity bill is 72 dollars. This thing can save the average consumer 20 percent on his electric bill which is around 15 dollars a month or 180 dollars a year. If you add in 500 bucks to install and wire this thing in, it would take about 14 years a current energy rates for it to pay for itself. It may take a lot longer if you only save 10 percent (the developer says 10-20%) on your energy bill with it. The other kicker is- is that wind turbine going to last 14 years or more sitting on a roof top and enduring those Michigan winters? There might be better ways to save on your electric bill."

I think it would be better to have the 15,000 model and completely end dependence on any utility comopany, by achieving the 1.5 kilowatts that homes use. Then there is the conversion cost of DC to AC? At least in solar there is. Not sure about wind.

I think I'll wait till prices come down...........

 I think the payback will come much quicker when the artificially cheap cost of heavily subsidized electricity goes up. We enjoy the cheapest electricity on the planet, most of it from unsustainable sources. Also remember utility buydowns, tax credits and increased property value all make small scale renewables a very attractive investment in these times. One extended outage might change your mind about how expensive this is.

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Re: Wind belt generators
Damnthematrix wrote:

It's all very well for you to say I'm full of myself Rog, but I happen to be full of knowledge...  PLUS, unlike the great majority of people on this site, I'm trained in ENERGY matters, and find economics somewhat befuddling.  So when I see people blinded by optimism in things they have not tried, well, I feel like I should enlighten them

As you may know, we live in a state of the art energy and water efficient house here.  The SMALLEST pump I could buy to lift water from our water tank to the house plumbing is 750W.  The highest level it has to lift to is the shower, ~14 ft.  The water comes out the taps in the bathroom (the farthest point from the pump, and 3/4 inch plumbing) so slowly, it takes two minutes to fill the handbasin.  Now I'm not complaining about this, it saves huge amounts of water, you can literally wash your hands in a couple of pints of water.  What I'm getting at here is that if that's all you get out of 750W. what will you get out of 100W??

If you don't like the message, don't shoot the messenger 

I don't see how saying "good luck with that" is rude.  I qualified my statement with factual examples, and have done again here.  What I say is this, manual labour is best spent  doing what manual labour is godd at, and generating energy while it is still possible to use a solar panel is simply silly.  In the time it takes you to pump a few gallons of watermanually, you could be planting several hundred square feet of food, or building chicken housing or fencing.

 

 Mike, Check out the Shurflo 9300 series submersible. I've got one in the bottom of my 76' hand-dug well. It lifts a total of 120' and supplies 1.25 GPM on 100 watts, PV direct. I've also got a Dankoff Solar Slowpump that supplies 3.85 GPM on 160 watts, PV direct. The 500 gallon storage tank with 20' head pressure and 1" piping provide ample volume for the best solar heated shower around (especially with a friend, saves water)

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Re: Wind belt generators

Mike;

What do you think of this type of system?

url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4gY5B5OMCY&feature=related"

They are saying 10gal/m but there isn't any elevation. I'm going to have to dig up my college books on Fluid dynamics.

I know this isn't the most efficient way but I'm trying to set things up without any use of hydrocarbons or electricity. Our water needs aren't that great either. Basically just drinking water for 2-4 on weekends for now. I don't really care if I have to spend 1/2 hour to fill up a resevoir for the weekend. It's better than hauling it in or buying a generator. We are totally off grid so it's either something like this or hand-pump and hand carry buckets up a hill. I can always catch up on some reading while I pump ;)

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Re: Wind belt generators
Damnthematrix wrote:

It's all very well for you to say I'm full of myself Rog, but I happen to be full of knowledge...  PLUS, unlike the great majority of people on this site, I'm trained in ENERGY matters, and find economics somewhat befuddling. 

Mike,

I tire of hearing you over and over again tell us how you are so smart and we all are so simple. You continually embarrass yourself here with posts like this and don't even realize it. Don't believe me, wait for the reply.

At some point you will understand, I hope, that being loud is not the same as being right. Then again, if you were going to learn, you would have done so some 1200 posts ago so I doubt there is much hope and I am wasting my time with this post.

For me, I have nothing more to say on this topic as I have no dog in this fight. You go on to school us all and impress us from afar, as for me and the great majority on this site you seem to despise, we know what time it is with Mike the Matrix.

 

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Re: Wind belt generators
S Schauermann wrote:

 Mike, Check out the Shurflo 9300 series submersible. I've got one in the bottom of my 76' hand-dug well. It lifts a total of 120' and supplies 1.25 GPM on 100 watts, PV direct. I've also got a Dankoff Solar Slowpump that supplies 3.85 GPM on 160 watts, PV direct. The 500 gallon storage tank with 20' head pressure and 1" piping provide ample volume for the best solar heated shower around (especially with a friend, saves water)

S S,

Those seem like respectable options, thanks for posting!

I'll look into these a little deeper as I think they could fit my needs based on your description.

Cheers,

Rog

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Re: Wind belt generators

I'm trying to find a type of windmill that I saw somewhere, possibly on this blog.  Rather than a typical propellor type device, it is in a barrel shape, perhaps better defined as an impellor.  Any help would be appreciated.

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Re: Wind belt generators

For those favoring human power, what about the calorie/energy requirement of getting the work done?  Is this just a hobby/excercise concept or one that is practical in critical moments?  If food(fuel) was in short supply, is it practical to base your system on that power? 

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Re: Wind belt generators
plantguy90 wrote:

For those favoring human power, what about the calorie/energy requirement of getting the work done? Is this just a hobby/excercise concept or one that is practical in critical moments? If food(fuel) was in short supply, is it practical to base your system on that power?

We're thinking that these human powered projects are simply going to be fun to build and implement but with practical applications in mind. We want to minimize all energy used from fossil fuels and electricity. Our cabin and property is completely off grid and we plan to keep it that way for economic and environmental reasons.

As for the question regarding food or fuel being in short supply... You can always grow food.

 

 

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Re: Wind belt generators
Doug wrote:

I'm trying to find a type of windmill that I saw somewhere, possibly on this blog.  Rather than a typical propellor type device, it is in a barrel shape, perhaps better defined as an impellor.  Any help would be appreciated.

Doug,

I think I know what you mean. You take a 55 gallon PVC drum and cut it in 1/2 lengthwise. Then, offset the 2 halves by a foot or so and re-bond the parts back together. Put it on a shaft which directly or thru gearing drives a generator in the vertical orientation.

I have to admit, it is a brilliant and simple concept if this is what you are looking for. I built something similar, but was disgusted with the actual output. What I failed to consider is the fact that while this is simple to construct, you have a bugger of a drag problem that ultimately limits the true efficiency of such a design. As the wind is caught on side 1 and pushed back creating torque, the opposite side of the airfoil must be returned back thru the path of the wind to top dead center for it to catch it's wind and generate work.

No matter what the design, I have yet to find someone who can overcome this intrinsic limitation to these vertical wind turbines. It is my belief that the videos you see of people doing rooftop vertical wind turbines do not actually have either the generator connected, or a load connected, as if they did it is unlikely the turbine would even spin unless they are in 30+ MPH winds.

Go horizontal my friend. There is a reason the big boys use them on the Megawatt machines, efficiency.

Cheers,

Rog

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Re: Wind belt generators
Ruhh wrote:
plantguy90 wrote:

For those favoring human power, what about the calorie/energy requirement of getting the work done? Is this just a hobby/excercise concept or one that is practical in critical moments? If food(fuel) was in short supply, is it practical to base your system on that power?

We're thinking that these human powered projects are simply going to be fun to build and implement but with practical applications in mind. We want to minimize all energy used from fossil fuels and electricity. Our cabin and property is completely off grid and we plan to keep it that way for economic and environmental reasons.

As for the question regarding food or fuel being in short supply... You can always grow food.

 

 

Ruhh,

I like the idea beacuse I have 20 years of pent up energy (read fat) that I would like to convert to water movement!

Best,

Rog

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Micro Hydro?

Anybody around here seen micro hydro in action or plan to make use of it? It's not all that suitable for my property but my father was thinking about it. I'd be interested in hearing people's first hand accounts.

Rog: We're hoping to get something set up and running before fall. I'll keep a journal about it and if it works out I'll try to post a how-to up here or somewhere on the web.

Cheerios

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Re: Wind belt generators

My favorite non-fiction author, John McPhee, wrote a short story titled "Mini-Hydro" years ago. It fascinated me and I've been interested in it ever since. I wish my place in Texas was suitable for micro-hydro, but it isn't. You might look up the John McPhee story and review it for interesting details.

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