Why Religion and Politics should never be combined

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Why Religion and Politics should never be combined

Why Religion and Politics should never be combined-

For those of you with faith of any sort, this may offend you and you may not want to read it, but for our country faith of any sort should not be combined with politics at any level. Why you ask? Because it fundamentally flaws any judgement or ruling, law or idea created or enforced by America. The words "In God we trust" should be stricken from anything legal. You should not need to take an oath to God in court, or make an oath to God in school.

Now many of you will say I am probably and atheist or agnostic. Actually I am Catholic, and have been my whole life. Why do I believe we should remove all of these pledges or associations to God then? Simple, because it's just unfair.

Let's just imagine for a moment that a religious movement starts in America that grows to such popularity that it starts to have a great effect on the political elections and will of a certain area, but it's not Christian (the most popular base religion in America). This movement is so strong that they have the power of 3-4 states in America, and grow larger each year. If you are a Christian, this may scare you. Think it can't happen? It's happened so many times in history it's not even laughable.

Now let's say your a Jehovah, into Scientology, Muslim or Mormon, and they teach in school that John Smith is not the receiver of the word of God, Muhammed is wrong, Scientology is a cult, and Jehovah's don't use medical care and let themselves, families and children die for simple things like refusing blood transfusions. YOUR KIDS need to deal with this on a daily basis in school. YOU need to deal with this if you need to go to court. YOU need to hear things if you are from another country like GOD is on America's side. So basically, it should not be allowed in Schools, Courts, Money, Politics or anything that further divides us as a nation.

Your belief's should be like your personal life, private. Or better yet shared with your fellow believers. Not pushed, pressured, advertised or used to organize influence over the rest of the world. This is an impossible scenario to imagine because people love to fight and kill over religion, and its been going on for centuries.

People simply believe that the religion they subscribe to is the right one, and that means 1000 are wrong. Does this seem logical to you? Maybe it's just a numbers game, and the more believers you have that must mean that this is our true god. This means Hindu's or Muslims are the right ones, because they have the most worldwide followings. In all actually, the Christian religion is one of the weakest in the world, yet America is totally influenced by it everyday.

I am against anything that separates us as an almost complete unit, or a highly coroperative majority working towards common, agreed goals for the benefit of our country and the world. I respect all religions, because no one has the right to judge or to say who is correct. That's my personal belief over all religions.

We have too many things already separating us worldwide, with religion being a major cause of suffering much more than helping any situation I can think of. I compare it to class systems, criminal activity, corruption, negative influencing and nothing usually comes to mind that is positive about any organized religion.

I read things like this an my blood boils-

"We have to have the faithful in government and over time, that lie we have been told, the separation of church and state, people have internalized, thinking that they needed to avoid politics and that is so wrong because God is the one who chooses our rulers. And if we are the ones not actively involved in electing those godly men and women and if people aren't involved in helping godly men in getting elected then we're going to have a nation of secular laws. That's not what our founding fathers intended and that's certainly isn't what God intended. ... we need to take back this country. ... And if we don't get involved as Christians then how could we possibly take this back? ...If you are not electing Christians, tried and true, under public scrutiny and pressure, if you're not electing Christians then in essence you are going to legislate sin. They can legislate sin. They can say that abortion is alright. They can vote to sustain gay marriage. And that will take western civilization, indeed other nations because people look to our country as one nation as under God and whenever we legislate sin and we say abortion is permissible and we say gay unions are permissible, then average citizens who are not Christians, because they don't know better, we are leading them astray and it's wrong."- Katherine Harris

If you are offended by what I have written, then you better hope that you don't ever become a minority religious group in America, because it can change like the wind.  

The current presidential candidates have to bow down to the religious influence in America no matter what. It's another component to becoming president. The first one is being rich, the next one is being god fearing and following in an ACCEPTABLE and COMMON FASHION. Then we break it down into things like pro-choice, gay marriage, or other hot potatoes that the politician must sing and dance to, or be against, and that will decide the election.

These issues have completely nothing to do with growth, economics, prosperity, freedom, independence or any root causes of the current crisis we see ourselves in. Or even any major crisis we have faced in the past in general.

As long as people continue to think in a separatist fashion like this, and many other politicians or people involved with politics on any level are allowed to influence any sort of politics based on religion, we are doomed to fail and to be controlled as a society, and we will fail miserably.

[Ed. note:  These posts were made before the moderation program was
introduced.  They remain here in order to give context to the discussion
which follows.  However, many of the earlier posts are
clear violations of the user policy, and do not reflect the standard to
which we should hold ourselves as a community.  They would be removed
if they were made today.]

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Re: Why Religion and Politics should never be combined

The separation of church and state is perhaps the biggest hypocrisy in this country.  I will agree with you Krogoth that not only are church and state intertwined here, but religion rules.  (by the way, the second most hypocritical falsehood in the nation is the motto of my state: "Live Free or Die" - major BS!)

Religion, regardless of what name you pin to it, is a way for people to answer for themselves questions that may not have answers.  It lends comfort when there is chaos,  and gives meaning to meaningless acts.  But these abilities that religion has means it is powerful.  And there are those among us who's need for power is all consuming.  The greatest sin of any recognized religious belief in the world is violence and murder of another, and yet, it is in the name of religion that the greatest number of humans have been put to death.  God says you shall not kill, unless God says it's OK!

This site focus' on the many aspects of the economy, and the effects it has on our lives.  Studying the information here, we have all learned how powerful the central banks are, and how a very few men are able to manipulate entire nations, and ultimately, the world.  But consider this:  They are controlled by an even higher power - that of the religious leaders who are able to make or break any of them without ever leaving the couch.  That my friends is what real power speaks to.

The Bible also teaches that the Devil can quote scripture to suit his cause!  Religious leaders are powerful and manipulative people.  Beware what you are told, and learn the truth regardless of its origin.  Your power comes in the form of education, not a saying on money.

Bob 

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Re: Why Religion and Politics should never be combined

barack obama pledged to expand bush's faith based initiatives. now that's what i call real change.

having just recently dipped into my study of economics it appears to me that various schools of economic thought are really religious beliefs. particularly the austrian school.

i find it somewhat ironic that humans will find all sorts of new ways to introduce the mechanism of religion into everything. ie. if we could only eliminate the "distortions" of secular humanism, or islam or whatever then life would be perfect. or if we could eliminate the " distortions" of govt regulations the economy would be perfect.

my faith based initiative is the realization that we are all in this together and the only dogma is love.

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Re: Why Religion and Politics should never be combined

I have to agree 100% with Krogoth.  I am no longer religious after years of exposure to different christian denominations.  One denomination told me every day that if I didn't repent I was going to hell so I lived in fear as a child.  Years later I went to another church that told me everything was okay because god would forgive me, and the entire social structure was more clique than high school--raw unadulterated judgementalism.

I think the perils of religion are widespread but at the heart is its complete abandonment of logical thought.  When people truly believe that God will take care of us then where is the motivation to SERIOUSLY prepare for the future?

Or the utter religious ethnocentrism.  Of course everyone believes THEY have the true religion.  Sadly, not everyone can be right and it seems that this mentality spills over into other actions.  I'm sick of being told by Christians that "they will pray for me" simply because I don't hold their beliefs.  The immediate judgement that I'm somehow less validated as a person and treated as if I have made some grave, terrible, completely ignorant choice is utterly frustrating.  I simply make my choices in life on valid principles, things I can prove to myself through understanding of the world.  I just can't bring myself to live my life and make substantial decisions based on faith--something that can't be proven and must be believed regardless.

 Religion, like race and socioeconomic status, sexual orientation and political affiliation is just another label, another institution that people can subscribe to to belong, to feel validated, to be accepted and hide in the numbers. 

Joe2baba stated my philosophy perfectly, we're all in this together and the only dogma is love.  The sooner that society decides to come together as one--as humanity, and stops segregating and dividing one another with artibtrary labels the better we will be able to deal with societal problems more effectively and ultimately learn to love each other as people.

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Joe is right, Corny as it sounds

I know I know,

 Sounds corny, but think about it. It really is love. I mean, when I look at my little ones, so new and so fresh to this world, I see nothing but innocence and love. It is real, unconditional love. My kids can drive me crazy, but with one smile melt my heart, and nobody can do that. We go through life for it's greatest reward, love.

My friends I have had for years and years, or my true friends, don't judge me, don't lecture me, are not envious of me, are not trying to out do me, support me unconditionally and it's just love. They all come from different religions, political belief's, social classes, races whatever. But the common bond is love. We love our families. We love learning. We love America, or we love what it can and should be.

Our love for America is based usually on what we remember from our childhoods or teen years, or college years, etc. But that time was a time we had little to worry about. As we get older and learn even more, the more we see what a shit card we were given. We just didn't know it back then.

I suggest you surround yourself with people who support, respect and love you for you. You will be surprised how better your life will be for it.

People who judge you, especially religious people, are negative energy, and negative for you. According to the King James version of the bible, only God can judge, so they are reworking this for someone or some large groups gains.

I would like to see all religions, including government approved cults, have this stupid practice of tax free status removed. Then let's see what happens when the books are opened. Will you be behind your religion then? When you find out the real truth?

If a place called Hell exists, it seems to me that people who profit from God or any religion will be the first in line. That to me is sinful.


"The way to make a million dollars is to start a religion." L. Ron Hubbard




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Re: Why Religion and Politics should never be combined
I agree - there should be complete separation of religion from our government. We look aghast at the Taliban in Afghanistan, yet we are heading down the same path of a religious fundamentalist controlled society. Some good books, if you're interested: "American Theocracy: The Peril and Politics of Radical Religion, Oil, and Borrowed Money in the 21stCentury" by Kevin Phillips; "The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason" by Sam Harris; "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins.
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Re: Why Religion and Politics should never be combined

Here are a few good reads-

 

Anything by Karen Armstrong- This woman has seen all sides and studies all religions

God is not Great- How religion poisons everything- Christopher Hitchens

 

These are not atheist or agnostic books, they are simply fresh views on the history of religion and how religion has an effect and control on people worldwide. Good reads for religious people as well as scientific ones. Know both sides of the story and come up with your own conclusions. We were born (or evolved) with the ability to learn and question all sides of a story, that's how we move foward as a progressive society. An understanding god will forgive you, and let's just all hope we don't have a vengeful one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Re: Why Religion and Politics should never be combined

When a society abandons a Bible based morality system, it is doomed. This has been the history of the world for 5000 years, and you are seeing it right now with a Government that has no moral compass. What you propose is fine if you are an animal, without a soul, and want to live in anarchy.

You go stand on a corner in Jurasalem and explain your idea and see where that gets you.

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Re: Why Religion and Politics should never be combined

Hi john50-

Lack of "organized religion" doesn't mean you lack a "moral compass" - but it does mean your moral compass is Your moral compass - not what some one else has told you it is. And, it is certainly ok to believe in God without believing in the church.

try www.zeitgeistmovie.com/ for clarification

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society abandons a Bible based morality system

Nice opinion, but false. For one, the Bible is not the oldest system. They didn't have books when the first religions were started, and your math is off. Just saying a "Bible Based System" immediately makes you biased. A government that has no moral compass? When HAS it had one? We all have souls, we are animals, and we WILL have anarchy if its needed for our freedoms. If freedom from a single religious based control, which is what you seem to want requires anarchy to stop it, then bring it on.

The governments MORAL COMPASS should come from within, and religion free, to be truly fair and balanced (I am sure you have heard fair and balanced alot as well.) 

I have been to Jerusalem many times, have you? I doubt it because you cant even spell it. So I think it's good for you just to hold that remark until you travel a bit outside the trailer park.

Also it would be a great idea instead of me traveling back to Jerusalem to talk about this, we talk about America. That's what this topic is about.

 

Peace

 

 

 

 

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Some more viewpoints

What's Wrong with Being Atheist Anyway?
Saturday, November 01, 2008

What's Wrong with Being Atheist Anyway?
By now you've probably heard about Senator Elizabeth Dole's ad attacking her opponent Kay Hagen as being an Atheist despite the contrary and having taught Sunday school. But here's the bigger issue for me, "What's wrong with being an Atheist anyway?" Are we Atheists (I'm not technically an Atheist but in the category as a nontheist) somehow unAmerican? The suggestion from Dole is that being an Atheist is anti-American.

Yet radical Christians like herself often say that there shouldn't be a religious test for political office and for judicial nominations. They love the double-standard. They love to only focus on the second half of this section in the first amendment to the Constitution highlighted. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. Their defense of this double standard is usually something like this, "Well Christianity is the truth!!" And yet no one can in no empirical or legal way prove this to be so.

 

 

 

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krogoth
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More Scary People

 

[Ed. note:  These posts were made before the moderation program was
introduced.  They remain here in order to give context to the discussion
which follows.  However, many of these earlier posts are
clear violations of the user policy, and do not reflect the standard to
which we should hold ourselves as a community.  They would be removed
if they were made today.]

 

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Re: Why Religion and Politics should never be combined
[quote]

People who judge you, especially religious people, are negative energy, and negative for you. According to the King James version of the bible, only God can judge, so they are reworking this for someone or some large groups gains.

I would like to see all religions, including government approved cults, have this stupid practice of tax free status removed. Then let's see what happens when the books are opened. Will you be behind your religion then? When you find out the real truth?

If a place called Hell exists, it seems to me that people who profit from God or any religion will be the first in line. That to me is sinful.

 

[/quote]

Sounds absolutely Judgemental.

Why do you have to bash people and make rude remarks?

 

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krogoth
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The dumb keep getting dumber

[Ed. note: This post has been removed for inappropriate content.  It is quoted below.]

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krogoth
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Re: Why Religion and Politics should never be combined
john50 wrote:

When a society abandons a Bible based morality system, it is doomed. This has been the history of the world for 5000 years, and you are seeing it right now with a Government that has no moral compass. What you propose is fine if you are an animal, without a soul, and want to live in anarchy.

You go stand on a corner in Jurasalem and explain your idea and see where that gets you.

 

Our society is a long way from "abandoning" the bible. In fact, it's embracing it more and more, a typical response in troubled times. And it has not been the history of the world for 5000 years, it's been YOUR history of the world for 5000 years, and your religions history of the world for 5000 years. A government with no moral compass? I think if religion was a compass, and the boat was the government, we would have like 5000 compasses on the boat, and that's too many. For the last time, this thread is about how RELIGION and GOVERNMENT should not be combined in any way. Next you will tell me dinosaurs roamed with Adam and Eve or something. Don't confuse being moral and being religious.

What religion are you? I want to know what the truth is since you are so sure of it. You come here and spout these nuggets of wisdom, but you are not telling us what your ideas or based or quoting on are from. And why are you quoting to me if I am possibly an animal, without a soul and want to live in anarchy?

Well, whatever religion you are, I am well versed in the Bible, the Koran, the Torah, Buddhism, Taoism, Shintoism, Hinduism and a multitude of other religions. I have lived or seen most major religions in action, have you?

Tell me what your base is for what I consider is YOUR fundamental judgement of everyone who does not follow your belief's. A true believer is not afraid of talking about his or her religion, or spreading the word, so tell us all what you are, and where you stand. 

 

 

 

[Ed. note:  These posts were made before the moderation program was
introduced.  They remain here in order to give context to the discussion
which follows.  However, many of these earlier posts are
clear violations of the user policy, and do not reflect the standard to
which we should hold ourselves as a community.  They would be removed
if they were made today.]

 

 

 

 

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Palin's Urges 'Godly' To 'Plunder' Wealth of The 'Godless'

Palin's Movement Urges 'Godly' To 'Plunder' Wealth of The 'Godless'

Bruce Wilson

Posted November 1, 2008 | 01:34 PM (EST)

Sarah Palin endorser Bishop Thomas Muthee, in a speech he gave before blessing and anointing Sarah Palin as a political leader, on October 16, 2005 at the Wasilla Assembly of God, laid out the current agenda of the New Apostolic Reformation - how "God's kingdom" needed to "infiltrate" seven sectors of society. Muthee listed most of them: business and finance, schools and education, media and entertainment, politics and government.

Muthee also stated "The Bible says the wealth of the wicked is stored up for the righteous. Sarah Palin was in the audience. Minutes later, she was anointed, and blessed, with the laying on of hands.

Thomas Muthee is an internationally known celebrity in the New Apostolic Reformation and a personal friend of the movement's head, C. Peter Wagner. In June 2006 Wagner proclaimed that "God has declared through His prophets that the wealth of the wicked will be released to the Kingdom of God," and declared, threateningly, "the enemies' camp will be plundered."

The New Apostolic Reformation is not a small movement: an apostle of C. Peter Wagner, one of the 500 apostles in Wagner's International Coalition of Apostles, owns what will be one of the tallest buildings in the world, the Jakarta Tower. One of the NAR's branches is successfully supplanting the Catholic Church in Brazil. The movement holds international conferences on advancing Christian hegemony in the business sector [link to PDF].

At the end of this post I've added the nine minute video in which Thomas Muthee urges "infiltration" of key sectors of society and then blesses and anoints Sarah Palin as a political leader. In other videos I've also added, leaders in the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) describe and promote the same agenda for Christian theocratic takeover as did Muthee: the The Seven Mountains Mandate, in which seven key sectors of society are targeted for takeover.

Two top leaders in the New Apostolic Reformation, directors of "Spiritual Warfare" networks who hold other high level positions in the NAR are now definitively tied to Sarah Palin: at her entrance into politics at 24 and her emergence onto the national stage, as Alaska governor, in late 2006. There is considerable circumstantial evidence for the case that Sarah Palin is still in Mary Glazier's prayer warrior / spiritual warfare network.

A new 36 page report ( read online / PDF file / some of the highlights of the report ), from an independent research team that has specialized in studying Sarah Palin's faith, contains ground breaking information on a religious movement Sarah Palin is tied to and which advocates that its members "plunder" the wealth of the "godless".
The McCain campaign, during the 2008 election, has repeatedly attacked Barack Obama for advocating that the U.S. federal government seek more wealth equality in America, by "spreading the wealth."

But McCain's running mate Sarah Palin is closely associated, as noted in a recent New York Times story, with "spiritual warfare", an aggressive approach to evangelizing developed by the leaders of a worldwide religious movement which promotes a religiously based wealth transfer scheme as a means to implement theocracy.

As the top leader of the New Apostolic Reformation, which extensive evidence suggests is Sarah Palin's chosen religious and political movement, C. Peter Wagner proclaimed, on June 21, 2006, that "God has declared through His prophets that the wealth of the wicked will be released to the Kingdom of God."

Wagner detailed his religiously based wealth transfer scheme to power a theocratic takeover, stating "I declare that this wealth will be distributed for the extension of the Kingdom of God by the apostles that God has set in the church." Wagner made clear that that human agency would be a part of his wealth transfer scheme, and Wagner specifically singled out the "godless":

"I decree that vast amounts of wealth will be released supernaturally, even from godless and pagan sources... The enemy's camp will be plundered... Resistance will be impossible. Jesus will put all things under His feet." - C. Peter Wagner
As confirmed in an October 25, 2008 story by New York Times reporter Laurie Goodstein, Sarah Palin is closely associated both with "spiritual warfare" and with two religious leaders who practice "spiritual warfare" and profess to fight witches and witchcraft: Thomas Muthee and Mary Glazier.

Both Muthee and Glazier are also high level leaders in the New Apostolic Reformation, which over the last decade has rapidly expanded as an international movement within Neocharismatic "renewal" groups within Christianity estimated to have 295 million members worldwide.

It is a movement organizing on a massive scale for religious, social and ideological takeovers in entire nations, such as in Brazil [see PDF file: program for "Transform Brazil 2008 Conference]. Thomas Muthee is a personal friend of the top leader of the New Apostolic Reformation, C. Peter Wagner, and Muthee has played a key role in promoting "spiritual warfare" concepts that have powered rapid growth of Wagner's movement.

Laurie Goodstein's October 25, 2008 New York Times story, YouTube Videos Draw Attention to Palin's Faith concurred with much of the research done since early September 2008 by the New Apostolic Reformation Research Team, which has extensively documented Sarah Palin's numerous ties the the New Apostolic Reformation movement. Goodstein's story did not name the movement but verified Sarah Palin's association with religious leaders who practice "spiritual warfare" and, as Goodstein accurately detailed,

spiritual warfare "adherents believe that demonic forces can colonize specific geographic areas and individuals, and that "spiritual warriors" must "battle" them to assert God's control, using prayer and evangelism. The movement's fixation on demons, its aggressiveness and its leaders' claims to exalted spiritual authority have troubled even some Pentecostal Christians."
Goodstein went on to note that Sarah Palin had (in the summer of 2008) "delivered an enthusiastic graduation speech for a class of young spiritual warriors in June at the Wasilla Assembly of God, the church in which she was raised." Goodstein's story went on to mention that Palin, as Alaska governor, had appointed a spiritual warfare advocate to an Alaska State suicide prevention council, a story first covered by this author.

Most significantly of all Laurie Goodstein's story recognized Thomas Muthee's international stature as a celebrity, to millions internationally, because of his role in a globally distributed instructional video series promoting "spiritual warfare" concepts:

"Bishop Thomas Muthee, the Kenyan preacher shown on the YouTube video anointing her as she ran for governor, is celebrated internationally as an effective spiritual warrior who led a prayer movement that drove a witch out of his town in Kenya. The removal of the witch, Bishop Muthee says, resulted in a drop in crime, alcoholism and traffic accidents."
Thomas Muthee is in fact one of a handful of leaders, clustered around Muthee's personal friend C. Peter Wagner, who have pioneered the development of "spiritual warfare" concepts, terminology and methods.

Muthee has held several top leadership positions in Wagner's organizations and networks including serving, in the late 1990's, on the International Advisory Board of the World Prayer Center. That Center was founded in the mid 1990's as a joint effort of C. Peter Wagner and Ted Haggard, founder of the Colorado Springs New Life Church and later the head of the National Association of Evangelicals.

While Thomas Muthee was on that World Prayer Center board, an expedition authorized by Wagner and planned by Mexican former Voodoo priestess, now a Christian evangelist, Ana Mendez, went to Mount Everest to battle what Wagner and others in his movement have described as a global demonic spirit, centered over Everest, that blocks the prayers of Catholics and members of other religions from reaching God. That Spiritual Warfare expedition, as claimed in writings by Wagner and Mendez, may have contributed to the death of Mother Theresa.

On October 16, 2005, Kenyan evangelist Thomas Muthee blessed and "anointed" Sarah Palin as a political leader, in a religious ceremony held at Palin's church of over two decades, the Wasilla Assembly of God.

Prior to the ceremony, Muthee made a short speech in which he exhorted his listeners to carry out a holistic program, for the implementation of a Christian theocracy, that is being developed and promoted by leaders in C. Peter Wagner's organization, under the brand name "Seven Mountains". In his speech Muthee called for "God's Kingdom" to "infiltrate" key sectors of society such as business and finance, schools and education, media and entertainment, and politics and government.

The Seven Mountains program is an extension of ideas popularized in the "Transformations" series of instructional videos, on "spiritual warfare", "spiritual mapping" and "prayer warfare" that have, according to some estimates, been viewed by two hundred million people around the world, in seventy different countries.

The first video in the "Transformations" series came out in 1999 and only a year later, although most Americans were (and still are) unaware of the video series' existence, Sarah Palin in 2000, then Mayor of Wasilla, Alaska, borrowed a Transformations video from her former Wasilla Assembly of God pastor, as noted in an October 25, 2008 story by AP reporter Garance Burke.

The message of the video borrowed (and presumably watched) by Wasilla mayor Palin was this:

Society can be transformed by mapping strongholds of demons, witches and "spirits of witchcraft", and through driving those out through "spiritual warfare". The result will be the almost complete cessation of crime and addiction, almost 100% Christian church membership, the growth of farm vegetables to enormous size, and a miraculous reversal of environmental degradation.

Laurie Goodstein's New York Times story, "YouTube Videos Draw Attention to Palin's Faith", also noted Sarah Palin's association with another leader in C. Peter Wagner's networks, Mary Glazier.

On July 13, 2008, Mary Glazier, at a gathering of New Apostolic Reformation leaders outside of Seattle, told C. Peter Wagner and others present that Sarah Palin had joined Glazier's Wasilla Prayer group at 24, after "God began speak" to Palin about entering politics. Glazier was then working to elect AIP Party candidate Walter J. Hickel to the Governor's seat. As Glazier told Wagner and leaders in is movement,

"There was a twenty-four year old woman that God began to speak to about entering into politics. She became a part of our prayer group out in Wasilla. Years later, became the mayor of Wasilla. And last year was elected Governor of the state of Alaska. Yes! Hallelujah! At her inauguration she dedicated the state to Jesus Christ. Hallelujah! Hallelujah!" - Mary Glazier
Initially the Alaska director for the Spiritual Warfare network, Mary Glazier is now listed as the Northwest Regional Director for what is the successor to the Spiritual Warfare Network, now re-branded as the Global Apostolic Prayer Network. Glazier is also one of the 500 apostles in C. Peter Wagner's International Coalition of Apostles, and she serves on the Apostolic Council of Prophetic Elders, the senior prophesy group in Wagner's growing empire.

Mary Glazier currently has glowing testimonials, to her ministry and her leadership, from top leaders of the New Apostolic Reformation posted on her ministry web site, Windwalker's International: C. Peter Wagner, Cindy Jacobs and Dutch Sheets. Glazier also lists top NAR leaders as ministry advisers, including Dutch Sheets and Chuck Pierce. Glazier also has in the past, on her web site, a 1993 prophecy from Cindy Jacobs suggesting the formation of "prayer cells" within businesses as part of a wealth-transfer strategy (see Jacob's prophecy at end of post).

As quoted in the February/March 2003 issue of Spiritled Woman Magazine, Glazier has also described how in 1995 her prayer group drove a witch out of Alaska with prayer warfare:

"as we continued to pray against the spirit of witchcraft, her incense altar caught on fire, her car engine blew up, she went blind in her left eye, and she was diagnosed with cancer."
It is not known whether Palin was active in Glazier's prayer group at the time, but evidence suggests Palin may well have remained in the prayer warfare group, which was in the 1990's incorporated into C. Peter Wagner's national and international prayer warfare networks.

As Mary Glazier's news of Palin's association with the New Apostolic Reformation filtered out through the organization's communication networks, various of Wagner's apostles weighed in. Charisma Magazine editor J. Lee Grady called Palin a "bold Holy Ghost filled woman" and wrote that when he heard of John McCain choice of Palin, he "was reminded of the biblical story of Deborah, the Old Testament prophet who rallied God's people to victory at a time when ancient Israel was being terrorized by foreign invaders." Using terminology common to the New Apostolic Reformation, Grady titled his September 10, 2008 op-ed "Sarah Plain and The Deborah Anointing".

Asked by New York Times reporter Laurie Goodstein, on Palin's relationship with Mary Glazier, Grady confirmed that Palin had known Glazier and been in Glazier's prayer group. But another of Wagner's apostles, a personal friend of Wagner's who calls C. Peter Wagner a "spiritual father", Norwegian Pastor Jan-Aage Torp excitedly wrote in a September 6, 2008 post on his blog,

"Sarah Palin er bønnegriger og pinsevenn!" ("Palin is a Prayer Warrior and Pentecostal!")

Torp went on to state in the post that Sarah Palin is currently a member of a prayer network under C. Peter Wagner and Mary Glazier and called it "interesting" that American media hadn't paid much attention to the relationship. Mary Glazier declined to talk with New York Times reporter Laurie Goodstein about her relationship to Palin, as did Palin, the McCain campaign generally, and pastors and religious leaders directly associated with Sarah Palin.

In an October 22, 2008 appearance on Focus on The Family head James Dobson's radio show, Sarah Palin thanked "our prayer warriors across the nation."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bruce-wilson/palins-movement-urges-god_b_139987.html

 

 

 

 

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krogoth
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Scientology Ads

To Chris and Erik,

 

 

Are you aware you have Scientology ads running on your website? Is this something you approve?

 

 

 

 

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am
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Re: Why Religion and Politics should never be combined

Hello

Iran seems to have politics & religion combined & seems to be doing well ..? Iraq to some extent Ayatullah Sistani episode ..?

Islam is construed to be 'divine '& a 'way of life' & 'detailed code of practice  ' so muslims technically would believe that Religion & Politics cannot be seperated ?

 Comments?

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You are kidding, right?

Your kidding, right? Doing well? Your not a woman, I suppose.

 

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Re: Why Religion and Politics should never be combined
[quote=joe2baba]

barack obama pledged to expand bush's faith based initiatives. now that's what i call real change.

having just recently dipped into my study of economics it appears to me that various schools of economic thought are really religious beliefs.

[/quote]

That is very true. Studying the anthropology of religion showed me how advertising amounts to witchcraft, computers are worshipped unquestioningly as gods and used for divination, Blackberries are treated like talismans against bad fortune, and the interpretation of economic theory most popular in the US is an extension of protestant Christianity. 

Maenad

 

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The growing Catholic influence

Hi to all you Christian fundamentalists and bible thumpers.

It's interesting to see that the fastest growing population segment is Hispanic. In 30-40 years, I wonder what kind of government we will have then, when this fast growing minority eventually becomes the majority. OH, by the way, they are about 92% Catholic.

We can sure bet that the political parties, candidates and policy makers will all be catering to the Catholic religion in the future as the voting power of the Hispanic groups increases dramatically.

Don't believe me? Look at Miami and its local government. Mostly Hispanic, mostly Catholic.

It really is ironic that true religious power primarily comes from how many followers it has. The Hispanic communities are simply having bigger families, something Christians don't seem to be doing lately.

Religion and control over government can change like the wind, and it will happen. Then it may care to someone else's needs. That's why it cannot be combined with government at ANY LEVEL.

 

 

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Re: Why Religion and Politics should never be combined

oloko;;;

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Re: Religion is Politics; Politics is Religion

The Catholic Church is NOT A RELIGION, it is A CORPORATION!!!!

It's Ponzi Scheme PRODUCT???     

'RELIGION'   

The price for their PRODUCT???       

Certainty in their 'Rightness' of their Product (i.e. Absence of Doubt)

 

Political Parties are not POLITICS, they are CORPORATIONS!!!

It's Ponzi Scheme PRODUCT????    

'POLITICS'  (POLI+TICS = MANY BLOOD SUCKING INSECTS)

The Price for their PRODUCT????     

Certainty in their 'Rightness' of their Product (i.e. Absence of Doubt)

And as Mary Poppins says in 'Doe, Ray Me Fah So Lah Ti'..... that brings us back to Doe, A Deer a Female Deer; Ray - a drop of Golden Sun.... Me, a name I call myself.... Sew, a needle pulling Thread... Lah, a note to follow Sew..... Ti, a drink with jam and bread.... [Devils Tone: Patriarchal Mathematical Masochism]

 

When each of us as an individual decides to buy a product, we first consider the price. Yet society at large has long bought the idea of continual growth in population and production of products without adding up the final reckoning.

Energy White Paper: Revisiting The Limits to Growth: Could The Club of Rome Have Been Correct, After All?, by Matthew Simmons; CEO - Simmons&Co.Intnl

 

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Re: Why Religion and Politics should never be combined

[quote=6damon9]I agree - there should be complete separation of religion from our government. We look aghast at the Taliban in Afghanistan, yet we are heading down the same path of a religious fundamentalist controlled society. Some good books, if you're interested: "American Theocracy: The Peril and Politics of Radical Religion, Oil, and Borrowed Money in the 21stCentury" by Kevin Phillips; "The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason" by Sam Harris; "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins. [/quote]

6damon9,

I love Richard Dawkins' writing.  I read his book "The Selfish Gene"-- amazing work.  Kevin Phillips is good too.  Did you read "Bad Money"?  If you get a chance, you should read something by Jared Diamond.  His works are relevant and he writes exceptionally well.

I'm anxious to read "American Theocracy", "End of Faith", "Letter to a Christian Nation", and the "God Delusion".  If you get a chance to see any videos, on youtube, of Sam Harris you'll be amazed at how intelligent and wise he is... very smart man!

Also, I sent an email to Chris Martenson but it was intercepted by his secretary.  She is very kind.  I suggested a book to him after reading his profile.  The best book to read (completely relevant) is called "A Language Older Than Words" by Derrick Jensen.  It has been my favorite book of the year.

It's more profound than I ever imagined.  I'm only suggesting these since it seems we are interested in much of the same material.

Take care,

Caroline

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Re: Why Religion and Politics should never be combined
[quote=john50]

When a society abandons a Bible based morality system, it is doomed. This has been the history of the world for 5000 years, and you are seeing it right now with a Government that has no moral compass. What you propose is fine if you are an animal, without a soul, and want to live in anarchy.

You go stand on a corner in Jurasalem and explain your idea and see where that gets you.

[/quote]

I take offence to this.....

As an Atheist, I have far higher moral standards than a lot of so called Christians I know.

Don't tar people with broad brushes..... 

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Re: Religion is NOT Politics; Politics is NOT Religion
JMCSwan wrote:

The Catholic Church is NOT A RELIGION, it is A CORPORATION!!!!

 

 

as well as:

Christianity is NOT A RELIGION,

it is A TOOL, TO CONTROL THE MASSES INTO SUBMISSION, WITH FEAR  !!!!

HELL FOR ALL THE "UNSAVED"

 

 

 

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Re: Religion is NOT Politics; Politics is NOT Religion
[quote=JMCSwan]

 

And as Mary Poppins says in 'Doe, Ray Me Fah So Lah Ti'..... that brings us back to Doe, A Deer a Female Deer; Ray - a drop of Golden Sun.... Me, a name I call myself.... Sew, a needle pulling Thread... Lah, a note to follow Sew..... Ti, a drink with jam and bread.... [Devils Tone: Patriarchal Mathematical Masochism]

 

 

 

[/quote]

 

This is not an example of "Devils Tone".

It's called Numerology.... similar to Astrology.

Geez... you and your Pentecostal conspiracies!

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They play the religion card because they have no choice

It is IMPOSSIBLE to achieve any higher political office without pleasing the usually poorly educated, uninformed tunnel vision religious right in America, and it will influence politics as long as we allow it to.

It's amazing that 100 million people, if not more will not vote today. That's a lot of voting power. That's practically a new voting party.

It's also amazing that we may have a Black president for the first time, and I am really sad because his grandmother did not live long enough to see this. She only missed it by a day.

You all know how I feel. I don't think politicians will make drastic change in anything unless they are totally forced to, under conditions they cannot control, so I could give a damn who wins. One wants change, and One wants to stir the world pot of war quicker. Both won't make much of a difference in true change anytime soon. We are decades away from changing the fundamental flaws in American government, starting with religion.  I think it needs to collapse to change.

 

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Re: Religion is NOT Politics; Politics is NOT Religion

JMCSwan:

And as Mary Poppins says in 'Doe, Ray Me Fah So Lah Ti'..... that brings us back to Doe, A Deer a Female Deer; Ray - a drop of Golden Sun.... Me, a name I call myself.... Sew, a needle pulling Thread... Lah, a note to follow Sew..... Ti, a drink with jam and bread.... [Devils Tone: Patriarchal Mathematical Masochism]

caroline_culbert response:  

This is not an example of "Devils Tone".

It's called Numerology.... similar to Astrology.

Geez... you and your Pentecostal conspiracies!

 

Hilarious...... Which University, School or Corporation taught you to be so eloquent in pronouncing your ignorance about how far your head is up your ass, and you ain't even got a clue, you are drowning in **** [ed: no offensive language please. Thx] ???

And if it was PachyDerm Blackstone Berry Caviar ****;  you may be forgiven, but it isn't....

Whatever... 

JMCSwan

 

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Re: Religion is NOT Politics; Politics is NOT Religion
JMCSwan wrote:

JMCSwan:

And as Mary Poppins says in 'Doe, Ray Me Fah So Lah Ti'..... that brings us back to Doe, A Deer a Female Deer; Ray - a drop of Golden Sun.... Me, a name I call myself.... Sew, a needle pulling Thread... Lah, a note to follow Sew..... Ti, a drink with jam and bread.... [Devils Tone: Patriarchal Mathematical Masochism]

caroline_culbert response:  

This is not an example of "Devils Tone".

It's called Numerology.... similar to Astrology.

Geez... you and your Pentecostal conspiracies!

 

Hilarious...... Which University, School or Corporation taught you to be so eloquent in pronouncing your ignorance about how far your head is up your ass, and you ain't even got a clue, you are drowning in ****???

And if it was PachyDerm Blackstone Berry Caviar ****;  you may be forgiven, but it isn't....

Whatever... 

JMCSwan

 

 

Did you take your meds today?  You have issues and you don't even know it do you?

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barrt
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Re: Why Religion and Politics should never be combined

heres my 2 cents worth (soon to be worth 0.7 cents or less)

As a talking monkey, I am very aware of my brains limitations and the improbability of even understanding the devine questions let alone being able to answer them. To me anything else is just delusional

I cant really understand anyone who is not an agnostic (an agnostic is not someone who does not know if there is a god, neither is it sitting on the fence, its coming to the intelligent decision (as far as that is possible using a talking mokey brain) that it is not possible to know the answers. I thin its beyond us. If there is a big guy up there he is certainly hiding from us so who are we to second guess him and decide what he wants. Besides he may well not exist anyway.

Aetheists: How can you be sure beyond all doubts that there is not something out there way beyond your talking monkey brains powers of apprehension?.

Believers: How can you be sure your ancient stories are right and the other talking monkeys ancient stories are wrong? (im treading very lighly here guys!)

Im not  looking for answers to those questions, I just want to point out the things that we can know for sure;

You are only a talking monkey and you are incapable of understanding the devine questions let alone answering them.

well at least I am anyway. Please dont take offense folks, its only a bit of harmless fun

Agnostisism, the only sensible way to go Cool

and as for Krogoths question/ post. I agree completely with him, its hard enough fo us talking monkeys to get organised and make the right desicions without mixing mysticism into the mental blender.

and one last thing, when we were kids our neighbour was a religious fanatic and heavy dinker, he used to beat the crap out of his kids with a bible in one hand and bottle of scotch in the other while screaming about jesus, just about as hypocritical as you could get really and very reminicient of the Bush administration and some of Palins views

"Please god bless this bomb and deliver it safely to your enemies" kind of thing, crazy to the extreme in the eyes of this talking monkey who's family have only recently came down from the trees and started learning about fire and stuff

Peace and love (and truth)

 

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