Why Do You Pay Taxes?

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cat233's picture
cat233
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Why Do You Pay Taxes?

Something to think about...

http://www.unitedliberty.org/articles/why-do-you-pay-taxes

Why Do You Pay Taxes?


As various tax-related mail begins to appear in the mailboxes of hardworking
Americans across the country, it’s instructive for all of us to reflect on why
we carry the burden of our government every April.

Take this morning, for instance. We can credit the “ingenuity of the
markets”, and specifically the ingenuity of John Thain, for moving annual
executive bonus payments by Merrill Lynch up by a month last November, thus
disbursing $15 billion in executive bonuses just before closing Merrill’s
acquisition by Bank of America. Fast forward a few months, and the United States
taxpayer just gave Bank of America another $20 billion in newly-borrowed funds
to put a band-aid on mortar wounds in Merrill Lynch’s balance sheet.

Doesn’t that make you relish the withholding from your paycheck? Seventy-five
percent of the cash payment from our latest Bank of America bailout went directly to Merrill Lynch
executives
.

But wait, there’s more. Large companies predictably demonstrate that the best
ways to embrace economic challenges are cost cutting, layoffs, and
vaguely-defined attempts at increasing operational efficiency. One
underappreciated source of operational efficiency is office redecorating — and
in early 2008, John Thain spent $1.2 million renovating his
office in Merrill Lynch’s midtown Manhattan office.

Please don’t misunderstand — I have nothing against a $1.2 million office
overhaul paid for by Merrill Lynch. I simply object to an office overhaul
followed by a massive transfusion from American taxpayers. Where’s my feng
shui?

If you’re concerned about where your money is going as you pay taxes this
April, I can think of several ways to respond. On one hand, I’d encourage you to
consider the American banking system as a new national park. You’ve paid over
$350 billion already, with trillions in future guarantees. In the case of Bank
of America, the most recent $138 billion bailout dwarfs its market
capitalization, so you own it just as certainly as you own Yosemite.

Visit the offices of local TARP-receiving banks. Enjoy a cup of coffee,
admire the decorations on the walls. If you’ve been laid off, evicted, or
otherwise having trouble making ends meet, you might try camping in the parking
lot or on the leather couches inside.

If, however, you’ve had enough of the squandering of our nation’s wealth
propping up a pyramid scheme that dwarfs Bernie Madoff’s wildest dreams, you
might consider sending your Representative a message on February first. Or
perhaps you can convince your Senator that it’s a bad idea to confirm a Treasury
secretary who can’t even use TurboTax.

In the cold, hard light of current events, and considering that the vast
majority of income tax collected goes simply to cover interest payments on a
national debt created by the same banking system we are bailing out, I ask
again:

Why do you pay taxes?

 

Headless's picture
Headless
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Re: Why Do You Pay Taxes?

Assuming you're the right sex, (I'm a straight guy), will you marry me?

Lee

Linda K's picture
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Re: Why Do You Pay Taxes?

Cat

Excellent post. I’ve been wondering the same thing this week as I wrote out the check for my quarterly tax bill. Came up with no good personal answers for why I was giving the government this money.

On the one hand I’m old fashioned enough to feel it’s an obligation I’ve agreed to. Honesty, responsibility and all that kind of talk used to mean something in the household where I grew up. Some parts of where the money goes I’ve justified in my own way as worthy contributions, like thinking of the social security portion as immediate support for the elderly. On the other hand it seemed ridiculous to send them my hard earned dollars when they’ve so flagrantly dumped it into all the rat holes you mentioned above. And in such astronomical amounts.

My mini rebellion was to only pay half. Still - I’d almost rather flush the money down the drain than give it to people who don’t feel any responsibility to . . . well, almost no moral responsibility across the board. I’m so mad about financially supporting the most unworthy my heart aches as I write this.

So will my tiny check from my tiny income have any constructive government impact in the face of this?

http://itulip.com/forums/showthread.php?p=71727#post71727

Dogs_In_A_Pile's picture
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Re: Why Do You Pay Taxes?

Lee,

Regarding cat233 and answering your questions.

She is.

She won't.

She's married to me.

But you are welcome to come over for dinner any time.  I do killer ribeyes. (Assuming you are not a vegan and you like Yuengling.  Bonus points if you like Single malt whisky.)

Headless's picture
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Re: Why Do You Pay Taxes?

Dogs? Cat? Things are starting to make sense to the slow among us...

Regarding your generous reply on you wife's behalf,

You said:

"She is." OK, we have a baseline.

"She won't."   Such confidence. Don't you think we better wait to hear from her? 

"She's married to me."  Relevance? 

"But you are welcome to come over for dinner any time.  I do killer ribeyes. (Assuming you are not a vegan and you like Yuengling.  Bonus points if you like Single malt whisky.)"

Assuming you're willing to risk losing your wife to someone who may appreciate her even more than you, and given that you already seem to know a great deal about my weaknesses (though I've never sampled Yuenling; had to look it up on the net), I accept...

If distance turns out to be an obstacle, maybe we could  at least "share a glass" over Skype sometime...

 Lee

gregroberts's picture
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Re: Why Do You Pay Taxes?

Wow, now we have Chris Martenson's Crash Course and exponential online dating service. ;-)

MarkM's picture
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Re: Why Do You Pay Taxes?

Only because the consequences of not doing so are dire.

I will do a lot of things that I would not otherwise when a gun is pointed to my head and my hands are tied.

Dogs_In_A_Pile's picture
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Re: Why Do You Pay Taxes?

LOL!!!!

I'll address them in order.

"She is." OK, we have a baseline. - Self explanatory.

"She won't."   Such confidence. Don't you think we better wait to hear from her?  - Nope.  We pretty much have each other figured out after almost 25 years of marriage.  Although she will be the first to tell you she is a single mother of three.  A 21 yr old, a 23 yr old and a 47 yr old.  I do not deny it - actually I am quite proud of it.  Peter Pan has nothing on me.

"She's married to me."  Relevance? - The kind backed with a 5" diameter center of mass grouping at 150 yards with a Bushmaster M4 Carbine, a 1.5" diameter center of mass grouping at 7 yards with a Sig Sauer, and should firearms fail - a black belt and instructor certification in Muay Thai, a black belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, a black belt in Hapkido, a black belt in Tae Kwon Do, a Phase 5 (of 6) instructorship in Pekiti tersia (Filipino knife fighting) and a Phase 3 (of 5) instructorship in Eskrima kali (Filipino, stick, dagger, sword, staff and empty hand martial art form).

And in the event Moderator Jason misconstrues the paragraph above as a communication of a threat - IT'S NOT - WE ARE HAVING FRIENDLY BANTER.  I make a distinction between communicating a threat vs. capability (and implied will to use).

Assuming you're willing to risk losing your wife to someone who may appreciate her even more than you, and given that you already seem to know a great deal about my weaknesses (though I've never sampled Yuenling; had to look it up on the net), I accept... - I doubt there is anyone on the face of this earth who appreciates her more than I do.  Making that appreciation known is what sometimes kicks my butt.

Seriously - send me an email offline and if distance turns out to not be an issue, I'll get my secret marinade ready.  I figured at some point people who crossed paths on this site would figure out a way to meet up face to face.  We need to get those community foundation blocks set down.

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Re: Why Do You Pay Taxes?

Great post Cat233. Thanks for sharing. I've been thinking the same thing a lot lately. I plan on circulating this far and wide. I sitll can't quite figure out why the masses aren't stark raving mad. It must be that darn boob tube!

cat233's picture
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Re: Why Do You Pay Taxes?
Mrs M, and if anyone is interested in reading more of what BJ Lawson has
written, please check out his blog all the way back to day one.... http://www.lawsonforcongress.com/ 
You will find his wisdom well beyond his years!!! 
Linda, Thank you I went to your link... Yes, we do have to pay our taxes,
don't we.  I so understand you point.  Speaking of rebellion, I know I will
someday be marching in the streets.  I am the one who passes out daisies, but I
am feeling my daisy days are about over, enough is enough and I have had it with
the bailouts.
Mark, You certainly hit the nail on the head.
Lee, LOL... Thank you... I have been married to Dogs for 24 years, 6 months
and 7 days (but who is counting)... Saturday he leaves for Japan for a week...
Give me a call.  He isn't too proficient with SKYPE, the first time he SKYPED
me, he didn't have a microphone.  And something tells me, this cat will always
be married to Dogs... Come on over, we are having a cookout tonight.  He better
be on his way home.    
Katherine (Cat)
Linda K's picture
Linda K
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Re: Why Do You Pay Taxes?

Sounds like that dog better be waggin' his tail on home.

SamLinder's picture
SamLinder
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Re: Why Do You Pay Taxes?

Cat, Dogs, Lee:

What a fun read - you guys crack me up!

Thanks for bringing some laughter to my day.

Headless's picture
Headless
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Re: Why Do You Pay Taxes?

Dogs,

I look forward to breaking bread--nothing else... Maybe some cracking as well--as in "...open a bottle..."

Cat,

When you've confirmed he is on the flight and there are no booby traps set, ring me...

Lee

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Re: Why Do You Pay Taxes?

Haha wow, I think this is a first for this site.

As for meeting up and/or protesting, I'm always game. The End the Fed rally was a great experience despite extremely cold temperatures.

I think it's appropriate to ask now. Is there anyone else on this page that is going to Rowe? That would be an easy way to facilitate the whole meeting each other thing for a good number.

Mike

cat233's picture
cat233
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Lobbying’s Return on Investment

Lee... Smile

Mike ... Unfortunately, Dogs and I cannot make it to Rowe, but I will meet you on the streets of DC... Ready to protest!

Another excellent post from BJ Lawson...

Lobbying’s Return on Investment

"When we substitute influence peddling for the Rule of Law, the value of
Washington lobbyists becomes evident. As today’s Wall Street Journal notes, the return on investment is
huge:...."

http://www.unitedliberty.org/articles/lobbyings-return-on-investment

 

GR8TFUL's picture
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Re: Why Do You Pay Taxes?

Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote:

Relevance? - The kind backed with a 5" diameter center of mass grouping at 150 yards with a Bushmaster M4 Carbine, a 1.5" diameter center of mass grouping at 7 yards with a Sig Sauer, and should firearms fail - a black belt and instructor certification in Muay Thai, a black belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, a black belt in Hapkido, a black belt in Tae Kwon Do, a Phase 5 (of 6) instructorship in Pekiti tersia (Filipino knife fighting) and a Phase 3 (of 5) instructorship in Eskrima kali (Filipino, stick, dagger, sword, staff and empty hand martial art form).

 Whoa!! What kind of fan are you?!? What about peace, love, harmony & all that stuff?  Seriously--how can you publicly proclaim to love Jerry, Phil, & the boys & then write a post like that? That's just wrong. Thanks for ruining the world's assumptions about us Deadheads!!

 <grin> How funny to find out that you & I have more in common than perhaps politics (did you vote for Ron Paul, too?) & our love for great music! I'm a Glock fan myself but for personal carry have a nice little Keltec 380. Shot a Sig Sauer at the range the other day & loved it! Really liked the double action & am thinking about getting one, though this is the gun I'd ask Santa for: http://www.rohrbaughfirearms.com/product/prod_set.html

<sigh> So many guns but only two hands . . . 

 BTW, if you're ever in Vegas (do you play hold 'em too?!!) there's a an operation called "Front Site" about an hour away that has great weapon's training. 'Course from the above it doesn't sound like you need any further training, but for others on this site who believe in & practice their current right to bear arms I can attest that their 4 day defensive handgun course is a life-changer. No personal affiliation, just a very, very satisfied customer.

 http://www.frontsight.com/

Nothing left to do but smile smile smile!

 

barrt's picture
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Re: Lobbying’s Return on Investment

I've been thinking about a protest i want to do, im trying to work up the courage. its just to get a cheap photocopier and go out in the street and start printing money, not for my own gain you understand and not too good quality but good enough to make a point (this is so hopefully i wont get the death penalty!) and hand it all out to my pals (like paulson) and to the people on the streets (unlike paulson)

If the fed can do this and hand it out to theor pals, why cant we? do you think the press would be interested? how about a coordinated effort all over the country at the same time?

On second thoughts, perhaps i would be better off going for a nice lay down Foot in mouth

and just in case you havent seen it, have a look at this film about the illegality of the income tax

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173

Ps I know you have seen it nonzero and sorry to gatecrash your party, sounds like you are having fun Smile

all the best

 barrt

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Re: Lobbying’s Return on Investment

Hi Barrt,

Thank you, I have not seen the film and will watch all of it this weekend.

I am not sure what kind of protest, but I like your idea....All I know is if I am participating it will be peaceful... Dogs and I have very different mindsets.

And on the subject of printing money...  Your tax dollars at work...

11:00  Republican Senate leader Mitch McConnell says believes will meet mid-Feb
stimulus deadline - Reuters

Cat

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Re: Why Do You Pay Taxes?

GR8TFUL -

Whoa!! What kind of fan are you?!? What about peace, love, harmony & all that stuff?  Seriously--how can you publicly proclaim to love Jerry, Phil, & the boys & then write a post like that? That's just wrong. Thanks for ruining the world's assumptions about us Deadheads!!

The doggone (pun intended) peace, love and harmony flew out the window when the ticket prices for the upcoming Dead tour came out.  $100 a pop and if their abyssmal performance at the Mid-Atlantic Inaugural Ball is any indicator they pretty much suck.  If you have seen any RatDog or Phil and Friend shows lately you'll know what I mean.  Bobby is using a teleprompter to get through 'Desolation Row'.

I'm not going to any of the shows - I don't want to spoil my memories.  That and I miss the fat man.

Ron Paul and I agree on one thing only - that the government should get back to Constitutional leadership.  I can't drink the kool-aid on his other stances.

I'm a Sig guy.  Here's mine - http://www.sigsauer.com/Products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=7&productid=78

Next on my list of acquisitions - http://world.guns.ru/assault/as70-e.htm Third one down the list.

I've heard mixed reviews on Front Sight - the instruction is outstanding but I've been told that they do a full court press to get you to sign up for downstream stuff you really don't need - kind of like a time share.

 

Mike Pilat's picture
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Re: Why Do You Pay Taxes?

Barrt: I've seen Freedom to Fascism and it is a very interesting film which has further awakend me to our screwed up tax system.

I don't really know what to make of it, but here is Aaron Russo claiming that Rockefeller predicted 9/11 in a way that indicated he had a hand in or knowledge of the attacks...

Draw your own conclusions.

 

GR8TFUL's picture
GR8TFUL
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Re: Why Do You Pay Taxes?

I'm not going to any of the shows - I don't want to spoil my memories.  That and I miss the fat man.

You're preaching to the choir, brother--I wouldn't cross the street to see a Ratdog show.

I was in San Francisco last year on business & when I got there learned that Phil & Friends were playing down the street, so I went to see two shows. I'm a huge Phil fan from back in the day, but damn it's painful listening to him sing . . .

I'm a Sig guy.  Here's mine - http://www.sigsauer.com/Products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=7&productid=78

THAT is a very nice looking gun! Big bucks I'm guessing--one $ large?

Next on my list of acquisitions - http://world.guns.ru/assault/as70-e.htm Third one down the list.

OK, now I know you've got issues! But if the revolution does come, can I stay at your house?! You can be President-for-Life of my club--"Deadheads for Peace Through Superior Firepower". I'll bring my sawed off--best home defense weapon a person can own!

I've heard mixed reviews on Front Sight - the instruction is outstanding but I've been told that they do a full court press to get you to sign up for downstream stuff you really don't need - kind of like a time share.

Yea, you pretty much know the deal. The instruction was A++. Yes, there was about an hour & half sales pitch where they tried to get you to buy a lifetime membership, but it wasn't overly high pressure. Living in Florida, I have no interest in spending the time & money to make it worthwhile (plus I thought Parhump was a dump) but if I lived in California or Nevada I would have whipped out my checkbook so fast it's have made your head spin. FYI: you can buy a coupon on eBay for $50 which entitles you to a free 4 day defensive handgun course. Best deal around! Maybe hint to your better half that it would make great anniversary present for her favorite dancing Dog?

Dogs_In_A_Pile's picture
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Re: Why Do You Pay Taxes?

Okay Lee - I'm watching you as we speak.  From Yokusuka.  Don't ask me what time it is or what day it is.  15.5 hours of having my butt flattened by an airplane seat takes its toll - we had 125 knot headwinds for the last 6 hours of the trip that added 1.5 hours to the trip.  I did hand out two Crash Course DVDs to people sitting next to me - a woman from Australia and a man from Singapore.  Very interesting conversation on the international community's view of the Inauguration.

My watch says 7:30 AM Sunday, the clock on the wall says 9:30 PM Sunday - my body says I've been hit by a truck.

The economic crisis is the number one topic of conversation over here.  The ATMs are giving the current exchange rate but the airport and street conversion centers will rob you blind.

 

cat233's picture
cat233
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Posts: 575
Ex-Merrill Head Thain Says He’ll Repay $1.2 Million Office Cost

Ex-Merrill Head Thain Says He’ll Repay $1.2 Million
Office Cost

By Bradley Keoun

Jan. 26 (Bloomberg) -- Former Merrill Lynch & Co. Chief Executive Officer John Thain said paying $1.2 million to renovate his office
suite a year ago was a “mistake,” and that he plans to reimburse the company.

Thain, who sold Merrill Lynch to Bank of America Corp. on Jan. 1, was dismissed last week as
head of trading, investment banking and brokerage for the combined firm. He made
the pledge in a memo dated yesterday to top Merrill executives.

“The expenses were incurred over a year ago in a very different environment,”
Thain said in the memo. “They were a mistake in the light of the world we live
in today. I will therefore reimburse the company for all of the costs incurred.”

Thain has also been criticized for reporting a surprise $15.3 billion fourth-quarter loss and
paying year-end bonuses to Merrill employees before the deal closed. He said in
the memo that losses were “almost entirely on legacy positions and were due to
market movements.”

Bank of America “learned about these losses when we did,” Thain said, adding
that the acting chief financial officer of the businesses that reported to Thain
was Bank of America’s chief accounting officer.

The year-end bonuses paid for 2008 were down 41 percent from the prior year,
Thain said, and “were all determined together with Bank of America.”



Headless's picture
Headless
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Posts: 363
Re: Why Do You Pay Taxes?

Dogs said:

"Okay Lee - I'm watching you as we speak."

It's not me that you should be watching. It's that darn irresistible intellect you've been depriving the rest of the world of for the last 25 years; if you love something, you...

Dogs also said:

 "From Yokusuka.  Don't ask me what time it is or what day it is.  15.5 hours of having my butt flattened by an airplane seat takes its toll - we had 125 knot headwinds for the last 6 hours of the trip that added 1.5 hours to the trip."

As if the trip weren't long enough without the headwinds--which, I theorize are, at a minimum, a symbol of the effort it's going to take to maintain our relationships with Asia, and more likely, some wind-generating weapon system which Asia is running in test mode--at minimum power--to check how effectively they can repel hordes of  unemployed westerners as they hijack planes with a resume in one hand and an exploding credit card in the other...

I have to make a similar flight (Seoul) on 2/18; it's rarely a boring flight, as you point out...

I wonder if Chris has considered translations of the Crash Course--not that they'd be of any use, as the Koreans (many I know), and by extrapolation, the rest of Asia, were predicting the collapse of America by New Year's day, 2009--over two years ago!

Lee

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