Who's worse: Newt Gingrich or Mitt Romney? Does Ron Paul have a real shot at winning Rep. nod?

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JuanGalt's picture
JuanGalt
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Who's worse: Newt Gingrich or Mitt Romney? Does Ron Paul have a real shot at winning Rep. nod?

Personally, I'm a Ron Paul supporter but I readily acknowledge there are many ultra powerful forces that are and will conspire against him (media black-out and blanket negative press and political discounting by mainstream media), an American public that is entirely too naive, ingnorant and indifferent to know any better than to truly differentiate between Obama, Gingrich and Romney versus Paul and of course the incredible money machine and political + banking elite support for Obama.

Although I believe Obama is by far the worst option, the two "leading Republican candidates" definitely do not appear much better and in fact could be relatively speaking almost about as bad. In Gingrich's case, I think that guy could be the next Bush administration with Gingrich serving as a frightening reminder of Dick Cheney.

So what do you think?

It's likely that either Gingrich or Romney get the Republican nod. Which would be worse?

I hope Paul then launches the strongest 3rd party candidate run in history but I just don't know if that will be enough given all the chips stacked against him, Libertarians, freedom & liberty, free market economics, state's rights, our constitutional rights and austrian economic theory.

Would love to hear what folks on the board think. Thanks!

JG

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A Flip-Flopper Or A Flop-Flipper?

Well, I guess it would be a matter of which you consider worse: A flip-flopper or a flop-flipper?

Mitt Romney: Mitt vs. Mitt (Source: DNC)

Newt Gingrich: Serial Hypocrisy (Source: Ron Paul 2012)

Another video of Gingrich: Selling Access (Source: Ron Paul 2012)

Just by way of contrast, here's a 10-minute campaign video of Ron Paul from the mid-1990s. (I think. The clothes and hair styles make me think 1980s?) He hasn't changed, except maybe he looks more statesman-like now with the white hair...

Ron Paul: Vintage Ron Paul (Source: Ron Paul campaign a long time ago)

Poet

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Don't Forget Big Dog!

or Conan's hilarious Ron Paul Commerical

A few other notes.  Today is a Ron Paul Money bomb.  He's raised about $1.5 million so far.   Also Ron Paul is on Leno tonight.  Some good press can't hurt.

 

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Thanks for the video links Poet...

I've seen a couple of those but it was helpful to have them all in one place, refresh my memory and have them easily available for others.

It's amazing that the Republican Party is falling for such pathetic candidates (excluding Ron Paul of course). Well., It's actually not hard to believe but just perpetually perplexing.

Ron Paul is certainly not a perfect candidate and I do wish he was more charismatic, a better speaker, a better debator, more aggresive in going after his opposition, etc... but his message and stance on most issues are the most honest and accurate thus far. One may argue or question him on certain things but his focus on sound money, placing scrutiny on the Fed, getting out of all these unjustified, protracted and costly wars and defending the our constitutional rights is right on cue. 

I've traditionally supported Republicans but after the two Bush administrations I seel little difference between both parties and think they are both corrupt and incompetent. THE SYSTEM IS BROKEN!!!

I fear it will take a complete disaster before any meaningful change comes about and even then the New World Order will try to corrupt and control everything.

Oh well, we must assume the worst, keep prepping and bond with like-minded folks. Thanks.

Best,

JG 

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I've traditionally supported

I've traditionally supported Republicans but after the two Bush administrations I seel little difference between both parties and think they are both corrupt and incompetent. THE SYSTEM IS BROKEN!!!

+1

Rich

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Newt, Mit & Ron

 

IMHO: Mit and Newt are too much like the establishment, more of the same. That being said, I love Ron Paul. He is refreshingly different, honest and believable. I don't agree with everything he says, but most of it! However, even if Ron did get elected, he would have to fight the morons in congress to get anything changed. I think they would just stone-wall him.

We need statesmen like Dr Paul. We really need more people like him in offices across the U.S.

I hope he gets the nomination.

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I registered...

 ...as a Repub specifically so I could for for RP in the NY primary.  Never been registered with any party before.  Yeah, the R nom will likely be decided long before NY votes, but this is a principle thing.  And who knows, maybe I'll get the opp to put RP over the top.

 
And for those that are rolling their eyes and saying the's no diff between Repub and Dem:  there's a diff between RP and everybody else in the race
 
Viva -- Sager
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An interesting sidenote

Have other people here noticed the apparently orchestrated assault on the Newtster from many of the conservative heavy weights in the Republican party, including George Will and the National Review?  It's an interesting turn for the R's as it is a decided departure from Reagan's admonition to not speak ill of fellow Republicans.  They are becoming downright cannibalistic.  Of course, its hugely entertaining.

Doug

 

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the games go on and American public is the loser
Doug wrote:

Have other people here noticed the apparently orchestrated assault on the Newtster from many of the conservative heavy weights in the Republican party, including George Will and the National Review?  It's an interesting turn for the R's as it is a decided departure from Reagan's admonition to not speak ill of fellow Republicans.  They are becoming downright cannibalistic.  Of course, its hugely entertaining.

Doug

 

My wife noted an interesting pattern.  It seems that each Republican candidate, in turn, has been raised up as the answer to the hope of their party only to have his fortunes turn and his/her dreams dashed.  It's like they're being propped up only to be chopped down.  I also noted a change in Obama's sentiment a number of months ago from confident to increasingly less confident and then, abruptly back to confident again.  It was almost as if TPTB told him that if he continued on, he would not be president again but then, he acquiesced on some key issue(s) and was then assured he would again be The Man.  Any decent candidate should trounce Obama but we won't get a decent candidate.  I too like Ron Paul but I simply can't envision a scenario where he would become President or would be allowed to successfully operate as President.  

Even if Gingrich or Romney gets the Presidency, I doubt if there would be any significant change.  And Gingrich's political resurrection makes me very suspicious indeed.  I think it will come down to Romney and Obama in a close one with Obama taking it.   

My personal opinion, probably expressed here before, is that since we've outsourced everything else in this country, we should outsource the Presidency to Lula da Silva of Brazil.  He did a heck of a job there and couldn't be any worse than the clown in office or the buffoons vying for it.;-)

But if we have 4 more years of Obama, the country will be unrecognizeable as the America we once knew.  We are fuxored any way you look at it. 

 

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2OLD4OKEYDOKE
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It ain't over til it's over

There's the old saying that in politics, you have to 'rise above' principle.

'ao' is probably right to say, "Any decent candidate should trounce Obama but we won't get a decent candidate.  I too like Ron Paul but I simply can't envision a scenario where he would become President or would be allowed to successfully operate as President."

But I think that we always do the right thing to act in accord with the Constitution. Just because our 'leaders' and 'party apparatchiks' regularly disgrace the Constitution, doesn't mean that we can't take our stand in support. Haven't practically all of us, at one time or another, sworn an oath to defend the Constitution?

I am supporting Buddy Roemer for President, and both Roemer and Paul respect the Constitution.

As txgirl69 says: "We need statesmen like Dr Paul. We really need more people like him in offices across the U.S."

JuanGalt: "One may argue or question [Ron Paul] on certain things but his focus on sound money, placing scrutiny on the Fed, getting out of all these unjustified, protracted and costly wars and defending our constitutional rights is right on cue."

I would love to see Buddy Roemer admitted to the debates and both Paul and Roemer allowed decent media coverage. That Ron Paul is in the debates is at least a step in the right direction, showing that the people cannot be completely ignored.

It's great that Ron Paul has taken the opportunity to participate in the debates and is making hay with it.

As Yogi Berra said, "It ain't over 'til it's over."

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I was hoping for more...

I was hoping for more.  Something better.  I easily pick any of the Repub candidates over Obama. I read a blog that made some sense tonight.  He/.she thought there was room for a powerful late candidate - someone not yet in the race.  Maybe a constitutionalist with morals.  Imagine that.  Someone that would get a better shake from the media than Ron Paul has been getting.

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Long Ron Paul interview with DesMoines Register

The Des Moines Register did not endorse Ron Paul.  They choose Romney instead, but It's still worth checking out their no holds barred interview of Ron Paul.  The interviewers were respectful and Ron Paul never seems uncomfortable or uncertain answering the questions.  You may disagree with him but there can be no doubt that he has a very consistent well thought out political philosophy.  Compare him to people like Perry/Bachmann/Santorum and he is like a man amoung boys.

Link to long Ron Paul Interview (sorry can't embed because it is not youtube)

Also check out clips from last nights Leno.  It was nearly a lovefest.  Great to see him finally getting positive press.

part 1

part 2

part 3

part 4

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Why A Tea Party Conservative Now Supports Ron Paul

Here's a very good, thoughtful article from someone who used to deride Dr. Paul's foreign policy views:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/12/why_a_tea_party_conservative_now_...

The momentum continues to grow; I'm not certain that it will be enough, but it's certainly growing...

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Thanks Doc, I appreciate your posts...

If I was in your neck of the woods I'd be joining you.

In the meantime I try to do my part and get the word out on my end.

One thing though that frustrates me with Dr. Paul is that sometimes he just does not articulate his points clearly enough for the average person to truly "get it". I get it because I understand the background philosophy he comes and have done my research and lost of reading. However, the average guy will often not completely understand without doing more research and reading on their own.

That, and I wish Dr. Paul was more dynamic in dealing with his opposition and critics. I think he's often too nice, passive and civil for his own good. I get that is his nature, part of his charm and to an extent to be respected and admired that he is not a sleazy, nasty little provoking politician. I certainly don't mean he should turn into what we se from most of these neocons,

Given that, I feel there are more times he needs to come our forcefully in his own defense and that of his core issues. They are always trying to pigeon hole him, take his position out of context or use passive agressive techniques in their line of questioning.

It would be great if his VP candidate was a bit more charismatic and dynamic and help get his message out more clearly.

Keep up the good work.

JG

RON PAUL 2012

 

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Ooops, put something at the wrong discussion

Ooops!

I posted something here that was intended for the other discussion started by Juan Galt about Ron Paul and the GOP candidates, and now I've moved it over there. Here it is, if anyone is interested --

http://www.peakprosperity.com/comment/125369#comment-125369

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JG, I Agree...

Your comments are quite valid. Dr. Paul is not a terribly good public speaker, he's not dynamic, and his message requires either careful explantions or a preexisting level of understanding that is missing in many Americans. His message does not lend itselfe easily to soundbites, in other words, excepting "End the Fed". Assuming Dr. Paul (the elder) doesn't get the nomination and win the general eleciton in 2012, and I concede that I don't think this is likely, his son, Dr. Paul (the younger) will be a force to be reckoned with in the future. He's much more dynamic and telegenic than his father. The liberty revolution would not be where it is without Ron Paul, but it must not be allowed to die if he doesn't win in 2012.

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 Newt is worse than

 Newt is worse than Mitt.

Ron Paul 2012 

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I agree No Fiat...

In a battle of the uglies Newt is worse than Romney.

I think Newt gives Obama a run for his money as far as worst candidate for 2012 Presidency but Obama is the worst, hands down. I kind of liken Newt to Cheney and Cheney was as close to the Devil as I have seen any VP or President come, LOL.

JG

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Agreed Doc, Paul's stances require careful explanation &...

more education. He is borderline awful at communicating them and that really hurts his chances.

However, I understand what he means and where they come from. Many other bright and honorable people share his views for the most part.

The moronic bought and paid for media simply tries to attack him, often while smiling. Our corrupt politicians and neocons try to mimic some of his points that resonate with people (Perry is a great example of someone who can't pull it off).

I have not read much about or seen Rand speak but I hope you're right because Dr. Paul does not have allot of time and energy left beyond the next few years. Someone will need to carry his torch and continue the fight well into the next decade. Thanks.

JG

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Tea Party Patriot Poll

DId you see the newest "Tea Party Patriot" poll result released? It was reported this morning on CNN that Gringotts Gingrich's banked the largest percentage of votes in that poll (something like 33%) while the others were all ahead of Ron Paul, who only got 3%.

This is disgusting, considering Ron Paul virtually midwifed the Tea Party movement but now they've turned against him.

Poet

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Yuck!
Poet wrote:

DId you see the newest "Tea Party Patriot" poll result released? It was reported this morning on CNN that Gringotts Gingrich's banked the largest percentage of votes in that poll (something like 33%) while the others were all ahead of Ron Paul, who only got 3%.

This is disgusting, considering Ron Paul virtually midwifed the Tea Party movement but now they've turned against him.

Poet

I saw that and it made me glad that I have never joined or supported the "Tea Party Patriots" nor gone to a Tea Party event.   Any so-called liberty organization that only has Ron Paul support around 3%, is one that I know I am not interested in being a part of.

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Gingrich Says He Would Arrest Judges With Capitol Police Or U.S.

Gingrich said he would send Capitol Police or U.S. Marshals to arrest U.S. judges who made decisions that he deemed were out of line.

Whatever happened to checks and balances again?

Gingrich Says He Would Arrest Judges With Capitol Police Or U.S.
"The former House Speaker held a half-hour phone call on Saturday during which he pledged to abolish courts and eliminated activist judges he believed were either outside the mainstream or infringing too deeply on the commander in chief's authority."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/18/gingrich-judges_n_1156405.html

Poet

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More Gingrich Hypocrisy

Which wing is it that wants to arrest judges that make unpopular decissions?  Gingrich is part of the fascist wing.

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goes211 wrote: Poet
goes211 wrote:
Poet wrote:

DId you see the newest "Tea Party Patriot" poll result released? It was reported this morning on CNN that Gringotts Gingrich's banked the largest percentage of votes in that poll (something like 33%) while the others were all ahead of Ron Paul, who only got 3%.

This is disgusting, considering Ron Paul virtually midwifed the Tea Party movement but now they've turned against him.

Poet

I saw that and it made me glad that I have never joined or supported the "Tea Party Patriots" nor gone to a Tea Party event.   Any so-called liberty organization that only has Ron Paul support around 3%, is one that I know I am not interested in being a part of.

I googled "Tea Party Patriot poll" at Google News and found just one link -- to World Net Daily (WND). According to that, the poll was what is known as a straw poll, and here's the story --

GOP presidential hopefuls Michele Bachmann and Newt Gingrich triumphed at a Tea Party Patriot straw poll over the weekend, with Gingrich pulling ahead for the victory with 31 percent of the vote.

More than 23,000 tea-party activists tuned in to a tele-forum to hear Tea Party Patriot co-founder Jenny Beth Martin grill four of the Republican candidates.

"An overwhelming number of activists from around the nation showed they are serious about electing a candidate who advances tea-party principles," said Martin.

In a straw poll that followed the question-and-answer session featuring each candidate, Gingrich received 31 percent of the vote, while Bachmann received 28 percent. According to data released by the Tea Party Patriots, the margin of error was 1.59 percent, making the poll results very tight.

Two other candidates also participated in the event, Mitt Romney, who received 20 percent of the vote, and Rick Santorum, who received 16 percent.

Sitting the forum out were Ron Paul, Rick Perry and John Huntsman. Paul and Perry still received 3 percent and 2 percent of the vote, respectively.

I am sure there are sophisticated ways to game this kind of poll, although I don't know if captcha was used to assure that non-humans were not votting. But assuming that it was real people tuning in, there are still glaring and egregious flaws in the methodology, wouldn't you say? It seems likely that the four candidates who participated in the tele-forum also publicized it within their organizations. As for the purported 1.59% margin of error, I'm sure it was 99% representative of what would happen if the experiment were to be repeated 1,000 times

Seems to me that Ron Paul showed good sense in not participating. Everyone knows that he has been, over time, the most popular candidate -- whatever the media and various polls might claim.

There have been some large-scale opinion polls of real people randomly sampled as to whether they view the Tea Party movement favorably, and then, those who thus identified with the Tea Party were asked if they were in favor of protectionist measures for USA trade. A majority said yes, but so-called "Tea Party" members of the U.S. House voted for trade agreements backed by Obama, with just one exception (David McKinley, W. Virginia). My opinion is that there are many good people at state and local levels who think of themselves as part of the Tea Party movement, but something seems to happen to most people when they get to Washington.

BTW: My guy (Buddy Roemer) probably got 0%, but he also probably wasn't even an option in the choices presented in straw polls following each Q & A.

 

 

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Mitt Romney

Mitt Romney was a former Mormon Bishop. He has admitted to baptising the dead...

Is Elvis A Mormon? (March 17, 2012)
"Believing that only Mormons can get into the highest level of heaven, the Celestial Kingdom, and that others will be limited to the Terrestrial and Telestial Kingdoms, they have baptized anyone and everyone, including Anne Frank, Gandhi, Hitler, Marilyn Monroe, Charlie Chaplin and Elvis.

"Asked by Newsweek in 2007 if he had done baptisms for the dead, which involve white garb and immersion in water, a startled Romney replied, 'I have in my life, but I haven’t recently.'"
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/18/opinion/sunday/dowd-is-elvis-a-mormon....

Poet

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still has hope

 Ron Paul  must still think he has a fighting chance or he would not be in the race .    If none of the fellows  gets to the 1144 delegates and is not the GOP pick  . They table is cleared and a new deck dealt .

   This is the first year we have had a Rebublican  caucus and only 150 showed up from our county .   We are a Republican County  with a Liberal News Paper  BUT  I just  do not see that people are that concerned of where we are headed .  They are still way behind the ball .. I doubt they catch up until  we start seeing some unemployment  because gas prices are not slowing anything down here .   New bridges , new housing , new Hospital , growing industry . I know we have always been years behind the trends   but unless something happens to Santorum I do not see RP  winning too many votes here      

  I did like the way he came across on Jay Leno  Last night ... definatly  not stressed about anything .

  FM

 Ps. Not that we have that much pull anyway .

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Full Moon wrote:  Ron
Full Moon wrote:

 Ron Paul  must still think he has a fighting chance or he would not be in the race .    If none of the fellows  gets to the 1144 delegates and is not the GOP pick  . They table is cleared and a new deck dealt .

   This is the first year we have had a Rebublican  caucus and only 150 showed up from our county .   We are a Republican County  with a Liberal News Paper  BUT  I just  do not see that people are that concerned of where we are headed .  They are still way behind the ball .. I doubt they catch up until  we start seeing some unemployment  because gas prices are not slowing anything down here .   New bridges , new housing , new Hospital , growing industry . I know we have always been years behind the trends   but unless something happens to Santorum I do not see RP  winning too many votes here      

  I did like the way he came across on Jay Leno  Last night ... definatly  not stressed about anything .

  FM

 Ps. Not that we have that much pull anyway .

He doesn't hope to win, he's promoting a cause and hopes he'll eventually win that.

Doug

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good grief

    good grief  you   just can't trust ANYONE  !

  FM 

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Romney And His Swiss Bank Account

Finance and economy related, in a way...

Someone is predicting that Mitt Romney will NOT be the nominee...

Prediction: Romney Will Not be the Republican Nominee (July 18, 2012)
"Why would he have closed only the Swiss Account when the Cayman/Bermuda accounts are also abusive tax havens, and he left those alone? Why would Romney have bothered to close the Swiss account at all? I deduced that what was special about his Swiss Account was the amnesty program allowed by the IRS. I also surmised that it was amnesty, more than anything else, that would keep him from releasing earlier tax returns.

"Now, through investigative reporting, there is highly suggestive evidence that the logic was not wrong. Romney failed to disclose the documents he filed with the IRS in 2010, the year he has already released, that detail his Swiss Account holdings."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-abrams/prediction-romney-will-no_b_1684234.html

Another, speculating that he did show McCain's staff years of tax returns from 2007 and before, so why not 2008 onwards?

Did Mitt Romney Take the 2009 Swiss Bank Account Amnesty (July 17, 2012)
http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2012/07/17/romney_s_tax_returns_is_the_2009_swiss_bank_account_amnesty_what_he_doesn_t_want_us_to_see_.html

If it turns out that Romney did have a secret bank account where he paid no taxes and thus cheated, and took the IRS amnesty in 2009... Does this mean Ron Paul will be the surprise nominee instead?

Poet

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Romney 'Will Not Be Watching' Ann's Horse Compete In Olympics

So funny. Romney denying any knowledge of what dressage is, trying to distance himself from the sport. Except of course, he has in the past shown that he knows more than a little about it.

Romney 'Will Not Be Watching' Ann's Horse Compete In Olympics (July 29, 2012)
"When Williams asked Romney to tell viewers a little bit about what happens in the sport -- 'Are there rounds?' - Romney continued to disavow any knowledge, even though he has said in the past that he has picked out competition music, and, in an off-camera moment, spoke knowledgeably with Sean Hannity about his preference for the smoother gait of his 'Missouri foxtrotter' over the 'warmbloods' that compete in dressage."
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-romney-will-not-be-watching-anns-horse-compete-in-olympics-20120729,0,3537863.story

Poet

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Mitt/Newt/Ron/Obama

Ron Paul will not be getting the nomination unless there is a brokered convention and a miracle happens.

Newt is more conservative than Mitt but he will not be the one either.

It is going to be Mitt unless something really big happens. The election will be Mitt and Obama. Although I would like to believe that it would be better for Mitt to win as Obama's statism thing would stop, when I think about it all I am not convinced that Mitt is not a statist. Just look at his record. Not good. Not as bad as Obama's but not good.

Federal spending must be cut and cut a lot.   There is no way Obama is going to do that.  Mitt might.

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