Who really owns your stocks? Hint: It's not you.

11 posts / 0 new
Last post
ao's picture
ao
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 4 2009
Posts: 2220
Who really owns your stocks? Hint: It's not you.

Thought this was an interesting article.

http://tycoonreport.tycoonresearch.com/articles/498930687/who-really-owns-your-stocks-hint-it-s-not-you

DrKrbyLuv's picture
DrKrbyLuv
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 10 2008
Posts: 1995
Re: Who really owns your stocks? Hint: It's not you.

ao,

Thanks for bringing this article to our intention.  This seems impossible but nothing surprises me anymore.

I know that investment brokers like to keep your stock on hand so they can quickly trade if needed.  The problem with that was that many brokerage houses were "leasing" stock the didn't have (yours).

If the article is accurate, this brings up many questions.  For example, who votes the stock?

Larry

DrKrbyLuv's picture
DrKrbyLuv
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 10 2008
Posts: 1995
Re: Who really owns your stocks? Hint: It's not you.

ao - you provided what is a critically important "dig" and I do not understand why most do not care to comment.  Maybe we are all in PM's and don't care about the markets we abandoned. 

Please keep pushing on because ultimately we will all suffer from equity values gone wild.

Larry

ao's picture
ao
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 4 2009
Posts: 2220
Re: Who really owns your stocks? Hint: It's not you.

Larry,

You're probably right about folks here not being in stocks.  I've been in PM since 2001 and out of stocks at the start of this crisis (except for shorting various equity indices).  The main point for all of us to understand is the pervasive lack of safety in the financial markets presently including (but not limited to) the lack of safety in equities (especially if you don't hold the stock certificate in your hands), the lack of safety in precious metal ETFs (and other ETFs and especially ETNs), the fact that anything with the word "fund" at the end can lose principal including money market funds, the lack of safety in the US dollar, the fact that even safe deposit boxes are unsafe for a variety of reasons, etc., etc.

 

 

 

  

JAG's picture
JAG
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 26 2008
Posts: 2492
Re: Who really owns your stocks? Hint: It's not you.

Very interesting find ao,

I had no idea about the details of the process, and I appreciate the information.

I remember when I got my first job at age fifteen, my mother would purchase stock for me. Back then, we bought the stock directly from the company itself, with no broker involved. We received the stock certificates from the company and kept all the records ourselves. Just recently I sold some of these stocks, and my broker and his staff threw a hissy fit when I brought him the stock certificates and our family records. It really became a huge ordeal.

I guess times have changed.

Thanks for sharing.

 

LogansRun's picture
LogansRun
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 18 2009
Posts: 1444
Re: Who really owns your stocks? Hint: It's not you.

Larry, I think you're right.  I'm not in stocks and won't be going back.  There is no way in which you can honestly say what you're trading in is "real".  Equities are manipulated.  Why "trade" in an environment that's designed for you to lose?  I'd rather go to the casino.  Anyway, I read it and said "shocker!....not".  I honestly don't care what's happening in the stock market right now as I have no exposure nor will I ever again.

bluestone's picture
bluestone
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 29 2008
Posts: 263
Re: Who really owns your stocks? Hint: It's not you.

 ao

What is the exact implication of this article?  Does this mean that since the "owner" is now twice removed from real ownership of their stocks, that either the brokerage firm or the DTCC or the government, can legally confiscate the stocks?  

Thanks

Brian

JAG's picture
JAG
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 26 2008
Posts: 2492
Re: Who really owns your stocks? Hint: It's not you.

LR, Larry, AO,

I'm interested in exploring your comments on gold, if you will. I can understand the need for PM reserves as an emergency fund, and I can even see gold being a very good investment over the next year or two, but are you saying that gold would be your only investment/wealth-preservation vehicle for your lifetime? You would really put all your eggs in that basket no matter what circumstances unfold (or don't unfold) in our future? 

Don't get me wrong, given what we know, that doesn't sound unreasonable to me, but I'm fascinated by the psychology of the gold market. I'm fairly new to the gold market and have found it to be like no other market that I have studied. My inquiry to you is not a criticism in any way, I just have a lot to learning to do with the dynamics of the gold market.

Thanks.

CB's picture
CB
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 18 2008
Posts: 365
Re: Who really owns your stocks? Hint: It's not you.

Indeed interesting ao. DTCC has on its board executives from most of the major players in the financial industry - Merrill Lynch, JP Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, Bank of NY Mellon, the NYSE, Barklays, UBS, Citi, etc. They have been implicated in naked short selling schemes as their system should, in theory, be able to detect all such activity.

http://www.dtcc.com/about/governance/board.php

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB118359867562957720-5Yb1Y_mpcl9a2nKbc0IaV0tDHyk_20070712.html

My take is that financial power is extremely concentrated and that a few very large firms control (and impose a tax on) a very large proportion of equity related transactions - including the derivitives market. This serves to further concentrate wealth and power. When news stories appear like the one about the theft of GS's program trading software that "in the wrong hands could result in market manipulation" it can hardly come as a surprise.

The only people who understand the system and how it really functions are insiders, rendering impartial external regulation or control impossible. The SEC is a subject and captured entity. Key congress people are routinely bought off. Through control of information effective court challenges are made impotent.

"Free Market"? it doesn't exist.

"market forces"? it's a marionette play.

The PM market, given the stakes in the game, can hardly be any better.

We have a "faith based" financial system. Have faith oh ye minions and peasants, the recession is ending. Alan Greenspan just said so...

LogansRun's picture
LogansRun
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 18 2009
Posts: 1444
Re: Who really owns your stocks? Hint: It's not you.

Jeff,

My investments at this time are:  Property/Real Estate, Physical PM's, Ammunition, Energy Resources, Personal Investments in Business Ventures, Cash, Foriegn Cash, Rare Stamps, Rare Books, Rare Art, Partner in Livestock.  My spouse still works so we still have a good revenue source coming through and with our business ventures we make profits.  But it almost all goes right back into one of these investments.  I've actually recently changed my buying to be almost 50% of all revenue goes to buying industrial silver, ammunition, and increasing my ability to live without the help of anyone (ability to make bio diesel, solar, water collection, bulk fertilizers, fuel storage, cabin/property to bug out to, rhino).

My mentality is that I'm not going to invest in something that I don't believe.  I don't believe in the Stock Market.  I don't know how anyone can, especially when you know that GS and JPM are using high speed computers/programs and insider information with the "go ahead" of our gov't to essentially STEAL from you and anyone else that's playing in the sandbox.  It doesn't make sense.  You may win some, but I won't give them the satisfaction of having my money in their playground.  Just not going to happen.  Same with keeping cash in a bank.  Won't happen other than the minimum + 10% for monthly bills.

Really, it's to each their own.  I'm trying to save what I have, not make more in regards to PM's.  I don't look at how many OZ's I have and think how many $'s I would have if Au went to say $2500 per oz.  I don't care.  I buy because I believe the market will collapse upon itself eventually.  I've been around the people that are being trusted to bring us out of this mess....they're not capable/they're not in a position to change things. 

It's really hard for me to explain.  I've just come to the realization and become comfortable with the fact that I'd rather NOT get involved with a bunch of criminals.  To me it would be like giving money to a drug dealer so he could buy more drugs, sell them and then give you the profits.  It's really no different as they're both criminals.  The street they're working on is different but the issue is the same.  Some may feel differently if they're doing the trading themselves but again, the money is still essentially going through the same laundering process.  Just my opinion and not a judgement so I hope I didn't come across poorly. 

Hope this helps and I will elaborate more as I have time.

Take care!

ao's picture
ao
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 4 2009
Posts: 2220
Re: Who really owns your stocks? Hint: It's not you.

Logan's Run,

The similarities in our beliefs and investments are uncanny.  You expressed my sentiments to a 'T'' in a manner more clearly than I would myself.  I'm with you brother.  I no longer wish to be part of their game or feed their game and am doing everything I can to achieve that end.  BTW, love that 338 Lapua.

 

Jeff,

My investments are almost identical to LR with the exception of the rare stamps, rare art, and livestock (although my 5 year plan includes some of the latter).  I would never put all my eggs in one basket but, like most here, I'm a big believer in tangible assets over paper assets at the present time in history.

 

CB,

I agree with you 100%.  I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

bluestone,

I'm not certain of the exact implications of the article but read CB's comments to get my take on things and why I'm not in any equities.  Ask yourself if either the government, the Fed, Wall Street, or any of the rest of the oligarchy have your best interests at heart and then ask yourself if the DTCC would be any different, especially if push came to shove.  I know what my response would be.

 

 

 

 

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Login or Register to post comments