What's so wrong with Keynes and Fiat, anyway?

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A. M.'s picture
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What's so wrong with Keynes and Fiat, anyway?

Silly question, right?
Well, during a conversation about the mismanagement of our nation today, a professor of mine essentially called me an idiot for blaming our nations adherence to Keynsian economic principles and a fiat currency. Now, while I didn't have the prescience of mind to continue the fight for long (nor the interest), I did specifically take notes on his comments;

"The nations that adopted Keynsian economy survived the great depression. Those that didn't died."

"Fiat was around for a hundred years before Keynes was born."
(Implied use in the American money system)

"All Keynes did was tell people to spend their money rather than horde it"

"We weren't using a currency back by metals at the turn of the century"
(Obviously true - he meant 1900's, however)

And my favorite, when I said there needed to be some fact checking, "I think I would know since I teach U.S. History". The class is not U.S. History, but in the interest of shaping Political Philosophy. 

I cited Breton Woods, Nixon and the Gold Window, the redeemability of silver certificates well into the 1970's and got ...laughed at.

So, what's wrong with Keynes and what's wrong with Fiat?
What am I missing?

Aaron

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Re: What's so wrong with Keynes and Fiat, anyway?

"what's wrong with Keynes"  - I would say Central planning. Assuming that it is the rightful role of government to manage and manipulate the money supply and economy..

 it's a defensible position... but it does need to be defended rather than assumed.

 Keynesianism is just an approach to central planning.. it presupposes (wrongly?)  that central planning is a good thing. Monetarism is a patch/kludge applied to buggy Keynesianism - focus on the monetary aggregates as a guide to indicate when to tighten/loosen credit.

 "Fiat was around for a hundred years before Keynes was born."

 AFAIK the chinese invented it in 1400-ish ..  meh... only 500 years out.

(edit- according to wikipedia it was around 1000 AD...)

 "We weren't using a currency backed by metals at the turn of the century" - epic fail.

 This guy is both sloppy and confident... bad combination.

 

 

  Sloppy, wrong and arrogant is no way to go through life professor...

 - to misquote Animal House..

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Re: What's so wrong with Keynes and Fiat, anyway?

Plato - Confident to the point of narcissistic.
He relies almost entirely on the "argument from point of Authority" and a very "obnoxious" approach to addressing questions or comments.
The approach is really demeaning and I'm about the only person in the class that still volunteers an opinion because of his habit of trying to just pound people into the ground with unanswerable questions.
Quite frankly, I'm convinced that subjectivity is the rule in all things and Objectivity is just our human attempt to make sense of it all.
2+2=5 and all that other double think just wears me down.

At any rate, I told him I'm going to fact check his BS and I aim to do so. Thank you kindly for your thoughts!

Cheers,

Aaron

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Re: What's so wrong with Keynes and Fiat, anyway?

Aaron:

My 2 cents. Dont bother with him. I bet you he has a ton of money in his 401k. I bet you his portfolio is full of financials, retail, consumer discretionary, and maybe some commodity play. He believes in the system because he has skin in the game. He is also relying on his pension coming through during his "golden years". Little does he know what is coming. Instead of asking YOU questions and taking into consideration your valid points and concerns, he laughs you off in his arrogance. In the end we will be laughing at him as he realizes that everything he thought he had wasnt ever really there.I bet you it scares him that you know something that he doesnt. He is just another mainstream in the box academic. Just like all the other academics that are driving this country off a cliff at 100 mph.

Pride always comes before a fall.

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Re: What's so wrong with Keynes and Fiat, anyway?

The best way to destroy the capitalist system is to debauch the currency.

By a continuing process of inflation,

government can confiscate,

secretly and unobserved,

an important part of the wealth of their citizens.

 

I work for a government I dispise for ends I think criminal.

 

John Maynard Keynes

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Re: What's so wrong with Keynes and Fiat, anyway?

"All Keynes did was tell people to spend their money rather than horde it"

Count me in on this one. I have spent more money the last few years on heavy & precious metals LOL. It really makes one wonder if they get so many zeros behind all these numbers that no one can keep up with it all.......so people just keep believing in this flawed system & it actually works??? I doubt it but in our life time I feel certain we are going to see some real amazing events. Like one crises after another & another.

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Re: What's so wrong with Keynes and Fiat, anyway?

 

idoctor.. to quote CM in his latest.. "the future has arrived...  "  (and is continuing to arrive.. faster and faster..)

 

Carl: good quotes.. I'd heard the first, but not the second..

Wonder if Greenspan ever thought " I work for a government I despise for ends I think criminal." ....

 I don't rule it out. Maybe his youthful idealism didn't die..

 

 sudden random though..... greenspan .. the name..... green.. dollar.. (greenback) .. span.. lifetime..

 meh.. too much homebrew.

 

 

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Greenspan

 

 like the bio.. double dropout.. me too! (tm)

 

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Re: What's so wrong with Keynes and Fiat, anyway?

Aaron,

With all due respect to bearmarkettrader, I strongly encourage you to take this seriously and continue the discussion with this professor. I agree with BMT that the guy sounds clueless, but I also have a theory that there are three levels of understanding of any subject:

Level 1: You memorized enough facts by rote to pass the test and get a good grade, but you never really bothered to seriously question yourself and develop a deep conceptual undertanding of the subject. Sadly, this is the level of comprehension that the University system is designed to reward, and the reason I don't take academic credentials very seriously.

Level 2: You have taken a strong enough interest in a subject to really understand it, and develop a conceptual framework in your own mind for how it works. You've questioned your own assumptions and feel pretty confident that you "really get it".

Level 3: You have actually engaged in polite intellectual discourse with a bona fide expert who has a different view than yours, and you can honestly say that you were able to address each of his/her challenges intelligently. In your mind, at least, you won the debate and the other guy didn't expose any gaping holes in your comprehension that caught you off guard.

My point is that getting from Level 2 to Level 3 is a really big step, and for most of us, we do uncover gaps in what we thought was a complete understanding of any subject when we engage in debate with an expert with a different view.

So while I share BMT's opinion that your professor is what I sometimes call "yet another Keynsian retard", I hope you'll take seriously the opportunity to advance your own understanding from Level 2 to Level 3.

Aaron Moyer wrote:

"The nations that adopted Keynsian economy survived the great depression. Those that didn't died."

That's utter nonsense that cannot be supported by objective fact. He is entitled to that [rather ignorant] belief if he so chooses, but it's a belief, not a fact.

First of all, the United States has never engaged in Keynsian economics. Keynes theory (distilled to very simple terms) was that governments should spend during private sector recession to stimulate the economy, then when the economy recovers, the government should increase taxes and pay down all debts incurred to achieve the stimulus. The United States has practiced the first half of that prescription (spend like crazy to stimulate), but has never followed through with the pay-down of debt during the following boom years.

It's pretty easy to see that history has disproven the viability of Keynsianism in a democracy. As proven by history, politicians will never have the fortitude to carry out the 2nd half of the prescription because those policies are not conducive to re-election. Not even Keynes was stupid enough to ever suggest that governments should just spend borrowed money without regard for paying it back. His theory called for payback of borrowed money as soon as the economy recovered, and that's never ever worked in practice.

But more to the point, there is no factual evidence to support the assertion that Keynsian stimulus ever solved anything or kept any government "alive". The counter-argument is that the reason you never hear mention of the great depression of 1920-21 is that the government did not apply Keynsianism, and therefore they didn't prolong the recovery that a free market economy achieves much more efficiently and quickly.

Your professor's belief that Keynsian economics saved governments from demise is no more or less legitimate than the Austrian's belief that Keynsian stimulus serves to worsen and prolong a problem that free markets would have solved in less time with a better net outcome. Neither camp can cite conclusive, irrefutable evidence that their belief is the correct one. Your professor would do well to get real about the fact that he is confusing belief and fact.

The United States did NOT apply Keynsian economics to the Depression of 1920-21, and not only did we not die, we also didn't endure the 10 years of misery that followed application of Keynsian economics to the '29 crash. [Although Keynes' theory was not published until '36, FDR's New Deal programs began in '33 and essentially implemented the first half of Keynes' prescription]

Quote:

"Fiat was around for a hundred years before Keynes was born."
(Implied use in the American money system)

More like a thousand. And each and every fiat currency in all of history has collapsed and become worthless in time.

In the case of the present U.S. fiat currency system, the present experiment began in 1971 when Nixon completely terminated the quasi-gold standard that was first fractured by FDR in '33. But the present "pure-fiat" currency experiment is only 39 years old. That's an immutable fact.

Your professor is correct that fiat currency was right at home in America long before Keynes. Example: The Continental dollar, now worthless. Or the numerous state-issued (colony-issued) fiat currencies that pre-dated the constitution which banned them precisely BECAUSE they were shown by history to always result in a complete collapse.

Quote:

"All Keynes did was tell people to spend their money rather than horde it"

No, that's completely untrue. What Keynes proposed was to tame the business cycle through a policy of government spending and borrowing to stimulate the economy, followed by a pay-back cycle once the economy recovered. As noted above, the second half of the cycle has never even been tried because it has been proven politically impractical in a democracy.

Quote:

And my favorite, when I said there needed to be some fact checking, "I think I would know since I teach U.S. History".

Well I certainly agree that the fact that this guy chose to stay in academia rather than get a real job in Finance says a lot about his qualifications to opine so authoritatively on the subject. But I fear that my view of the significance of his occupation may differ from his in a material way! :-)

Back to the point: Aaron, I recommend that you either order Where Keynes Went Wrong by Hunter Lewis, or if you're not ready to spend money on a book, listen for free to Jim Puplava's interview of the author several weeks ago on FSN. You should still be able to find that episode at FinancialSense.com.

Incidentally, the belief of many Austrians (myself included) is that Keynes was a socialist idealogue, who contrived his General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money not as a bona fide attempt to understand economics, but rather for the purpose of justifying his socialist political agenda. If I remember correctly, Hunter Lewis alleges that Keynes actually admitted this to be the truth to several people late in his life, including John Williams of shadowstats.com fame. Obviously that's heresay and impossible to verify, but it makes perfect sense to me.

Hope this helps, and I look forward to reading about how your next interaction with professor "I teach so I know" goes. I can't get the image of the business professor in Back to School with Rodney Dangerfield out of my mind...

Erik

 

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Re: What's so wrong with Keynes and Fiat, anyway?

I second wanting to hear an update. I get in debates like this fairly often around the base....so its always nice to hear others encounters.....=)

 

Mike

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Re: What's so wrong with Keynes and Fiat, anyway?

Welcome to 'higher education' Aaron.

Step one: Convince students (clients) that it is a privilege to be at the university or college (how lucky you are and how much better you are than those that don't or can't attend). Never mind the fact that you are paying for it.

Step two: Convince students (clients) that the university/college is not a business but rather an altruistic, benevolent quasi social endeavor.

The fact is that the number one rule of academia is to sustain and perpetuate academia. The second rule is to sustain and perpetuate the instructor's careers and pet projects. Your education, as far as the university is concerned, isn't about you at all.

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Re: What's so wrong with Keynes and Fiat, anyway?

Aaron,

Ask him to describe the money creation process.

Or ask him what happens to a Keynsian economy when its saturated by debt?

(Keynsian monetary policy no longer works in this situation). 

With a little research at Steve Keen's blog you should be able to "wipe the floor" with this Prof.

Give 'em hell....Jeff

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Re: What's so wrong with Keynes and Fiat, anyway?

Erik, 

Wow - sir, you've outdone yourself. 
Excellent information, I'll start looking into the suggested reading and getting my stuff together here this weekend.

Mike,

This topic didn't go over very well, and as Johnny Oxygen said the basic assumption was that I was lucky to even have such a brilliant resource to VETO my crazy libertrarian concepts. Did I mention he was educated at Columbia?

Carl V,

Thanks for the quotes!!!
Excellent ammunition. Almost nothing better than using a persons own words to illustrate their agenda.

Cheers, and thank you all!

Aaron 

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Re: What's so wrong with Keynes and Fiat, anyway?

 

Bring up Fractional Reserve banking, P<P+I  and the impossibility of ever getting out of debt collectively since money comes from debt. 

Debt money can be created followed by wealth money(debt-free/Greenback) to pay the Interest on all loans.

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Re: What's so wrong with Keynes and Fiat, anyway?

JK - Awesome point.
That's really going to help in framing this argument.
Fractional reserve banking when mixed with Keynesian economics is a recipe for disaster. 
Autonomous of one another, the principles might be workable. When mixed, it's chlorine and ammonia. 

Cheers!

Aaron

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Re: What's so wrong with Keynes and Fiat, anyway?

 

 A useful way of thinking about fiat money is simply as a new variation on an old scam..

 The original scam was this:

 The sovereign monopolises the free exchange of metallic money, at first honestly... stamping coins of a standard purity..

 Once these coins are accepted, and the old system is forgotten, the metal content dilutes.. as the face value stays constant. - "seignorage gains" for the ruler..

  Since it's hard to spot the reduced quality, and laws can compel acceptance of the kings money, the scam works.. value is gradually siphoned off.

 

 I'd argue that the instant that the metal content is diluted, the coinage has become Fiat coinage..the new coins are declared equal to the old. even though they are not..  In that case you can argue Fiat currencies are at least 2000 years old.. probably older... I know the Roman denarius and greek drachma were subject to gradual dilution... hence the temple tax in the new testament was only payable in pure silver coins...

 Possibly the moneychangers would have made the swindle obvious, by constantly increasing the number of denarii per shekel ? Though maybe they were blamed for being the bearers of bad news.. instead of the real culprits.

 Anyway, paper money just makes the scam easier... and more efficient instead of a gradual change in QUALITY of the alloy, it's an increase in the QUANTITY of pieces of paper.. there's no obvious change .. the dollar bill looks identical to an old one, you can't assay it to find how much dilution has occurred...

 moreover.. with coinage the seignorage gain is limited to new coins, with paper fiat it is extracted from ever dollar in existence..it prevents people from escaping by hoarding the older coinage - Gresham's law.

 

 Maybe you can use the history aspect to educate your prof Aaron ?

 

 

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Re: What's so wrong with Keynes and Fiat, anyway?
Aaron Moyer wrote:

Silly question, right?
Well, during a conversation about the mismanagement of our nation today, a professor of mine essentially called me an idiot for blaming our nations adherence to Keynsian economic principles and a fiat currency. Now, while I didn't have the prescience of mind to continue the fight for long (nor the interest), I did specifically take notes on his comments;

"The nations that adopted Keynsian economy survived the great depression. Those that didn't died."

"Fiat was around for a hundred years before Keynes was born."
(Implied use in the American money system)

"All Keynes did was tell people to spend their money rather than horde it"

"We weren't using a currency back by metals at the turn of the century"
(Obviously true - he meant 1900's, however)

And my favorite, when I said there needed to be some fact checking, "I think I would know since I teach U.S. History". The class is not U.S. History, but in the interest of shaping Political Philosophy. 

I cited Breton Woods, Nixon and the Gold Window, the redeemability of silver certificates well into the 1970's and got ...laughed at.

So, what's wrong with Keynes and what's wrong with Fiat?
What am I missing?

Aaron

Don't ever let me know the moron's email address.

Aaron Moyer wrote:

"The nations that adopted Keynsian economy survived the great depression. Those that didn't died."

MORON F-. Jerk probably couldn't spot Geonoa on a map to save his tenure. Gold or any metal is an anchor. Ships have anchors. Not anchoring money to metal that can't expand causes more paper to be printed. Econ 101 more of anything reduces it's value. Source last weeks FSN part 3 with Dines. Geonoa took all the money and all the gold and added the two together. Money was no longer backed by gold dollar for dollar, the money supply doubled and was allowed to expand with little anchor. THAT IS WHAT CAUSED THE DEPRESSION.

Aaron Moyer wrote:

"Fiat was around for a hundred years before Keynes was born."
(Implied use in the American money system)

MORON F- 3,800 Fiat currencies have died. NONE ever have lived.

Aaron Moyer wrote:

"All Keynes did was tell people to spend their money rather than horde it"

HAH! Leaves out the fact that he told the government to spend money they didn't have. This guy really teaches? Guess he saw this crash, or the tech crash or the coming bond/dollar bubble bust.

Aaron Moyer wrote:

"We weren't using a currency back by metals at the turn of the century"

(Obviously true - he meant 1900's, however)

Almost every war from the Civil on gold was upheld. Lincoln paid for a lot of the war with gold. I don't know one war that didn't spark massive price inflation.

Aaron Moyer wrote:

And my favorite, when I said there needed to be some fact checking, "I think I would know since I teach U.S. History". The class is not U.S. History, but in the interest of shaping Political Philosophy. 

Clueless.

Aaron Moyer wrote:

I cited Breton Woods, Nixon and the Gold Window, the redeemability of silver certificates well into the 1970's and got ...laughed at.

The proof is in the pudding. We are insolvent. Using GAAP we have in 2009 about a 8 trillion dollar DEFICIT. We take in 2 trillion. Balancing that is like balancing Enron. IT WON'T WORK. IT IS OVER.

Keynes was an @sshole - so is your prof. My heart truly goes out to you. Truly. If I were you I'd take the F and I'd write the dean and tell him the guys is an utter and absolute moron and not worth your money and he should be canned. I hope every penny his 401k and IRA is in equities and I hope his pension is 100% bonds and he just has a 1 day food supply on hand. He should not be warping bright minds.

 

 

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Be patient, grasshopper.

Aaron,

I'm going to recommend a completely different tack here.  As everyone here recognizes, the prof is an ignorant, egotistical, arrogant idiot who is totally clueless.  He will reap his reward.  Unfortunately, your position is unwinnable in your present situation.  If you win, you lose.  If you embarass him in class by demonstrating your knowledge and exposing his incompetence, remember that  he holds the position of authority and will punish you.  If he has tenure, you have no recourse.  Take my word for it ... I avoided this myself through learning via the mistakes of others who had been there and done that.  In the short term, it's not worth it.  In the long term, you'll have your reward.

Apply emotional self control and learn what he is teaching.  Knowing his position will allow you to strengthen your position.  Isn't this an opportunity to study and learn your enemy better?  Go back and reread Sun Tzu, Lao Tzu, and the rest of the Tzus.  Put your ego aside for this battle and gather information to win the war.

I experienced a somewhat similar situation when I was an undergraduate.  The prof was such a b****** that two of us had to talk a third classmate out of having a contract put out on the prof.  The third classmate's uncle was a capo in the mafia and the classmate did some "work" for them part-time as well and was deadly serious about this.  Anyway, years later, I happened to look up some information on the professor and he was still up to his same old shenanigans 30 YEARS LATER!!!  I had never forgotten what he had done.  I sent a letter to him, his department head, the dean of the school, the president of the university, the board of governors, and the board of trustees.  I explained what he had done (having all my facts in order in case he hit me with a lawsuit) and explained why I thought it was disgraceful for a professor to act like this and that his actions reflected poorly on the university.  I also included a photocopy of a very generous alumni contribution check to another university that I had graduated from that treated its students with respect rather than like chattel and explained why the university where this professor taught would NEVER get a check from me.  Believe me, it was worth the wait.

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Re: What's so wrong with Keynes and Fiat, anyway?

Aaron,

For what its worth, I agree with AO. If you can engage with your professor constructively, and he is willing to engage with you in a friendly spirit, feel free to invest whatever time and energy you have to spare. However, if this were to become a competition, you will lose, even if you win the argument.

Keep your eye on the prize, my friend. This course, and many more to come, are simply steppingstones. Don't be willing to fall on your sword too quickly. Keep your head down, your mind working, and simply forge ahead...

Chris

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Re: What's so wrong with Keynes and Fiat, anyway?
Davos wrote:

 If I were you I'd take the F and I'd write the dean and tell him the guys is an utter and absolute moron and not worth your money and he should be canned. I hope every penny his 401k and IRA is in equities and I hope his pension is 100% bonds and he just has a 1 day food supply on hand. He should not be warping bright minds.

 

 

Aaron: Just to clarify - that is what I'd do, I'm not saying you should do that. Nothing would happen to the moron. It would just plant a seed of doubt and his soil is probably so poor that nothing would grow out of it. Other than when the SHTF the light would come on. AO and CP and the others are right. Dale Carnagie goes a long way - it just isn't me.

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Re: What's so wrong with Keynes and Fiat, anyway?

 

 "let the wookie win"  ?

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Re: What's so wrong with Keynes and Fiat, anyway?

I really like the exchange of opinions! Good job to all and especially Chris!  Thanks.

 

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Re: What's so wrong with Keynes and Fiat, anyway?

FWIW...

1) I agree emphatically with AO and CCPETERSMD: You cannot "beat" him, period. It's his game and he gets to grade you however he wants, regardless of actual merits of your work. In any sort of competitive interaction, he wins and you loose, period.

2) There are zero subjects taught in University that cannot be learned from books, much more cheaply. There are myriad subjects not taught in University at all, but which can be learned from books, if you have the discipline. Thus IMHO, Universities serve only two useful purposes:

   a)   They are a great environment for young adults to "grow up", and the parties are great. Universities are the easiest place to get laid, period.

   b)   If you are in a field where the degree matters, you are stuck playing their stupid game and spending several hundred thousand dollars to (maybe) learn information you could have learned just as easily on your own at a public library.

My advice to young people: Avoid careers such as medicine where (b) is relevant, and if you go to college at all, pick a good party school and don't take the idea of learning anything useful there too seriously. Then separately learn to educate yourself by reading. That's what's worked for me, anyway.

All the best,

Erik

 

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Re: What's so wrong with Keynes and Fiat, anyway?
ErikTownsend wrote:

FWIW...

1) I agree emphatically with AO and CCPETERSMD: You cannot "beat" him, period. It's his game and he gets to grade you however he wants, regardless of actual merits of your work. In any sort of competitive interaction, he wins and you loose, period.

2) There are zero subjects taught in University that cannot be learned from books, much more cheaply. There are myriad subjects not taught in University at all, but which can be learned from books, if you have the discipline. Thus IMHO, Universities serve only two useful purposes:

   a)   They are a great environment for young adults to "grow up", and the parties are great. Universities are the easiest place to get laid, period.

   b)   If you are in a field where the degree matters, you are stuck playing their stupid game and spending several hundred thousand dollars to (maybe) learn information you could have learned just as easily on your own at a public library.

My advice to young people: Avoid careers such as medicine where (b) is relevant, and if you go to college at all, pick a good party school and don't take the idea of learning anything useful there too seriously. Then separately learn to educate yourself by reading. That's what's worked for me, anyway.

All the best,

Erik

 

I know this is Aaron's thread, but Erik - yah made my weekend. 

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Re: What's so wrong with Keynes and Fiat, anyway?
ErikTownsend wrote:

FWIW...

1) I agree emphatically with AO and CCPETERSMD: You cannot "beat" him, period. It's his game and he gets to grade you however he wants, regardless of actual merits of your work. In any sort of competitive interaction, he wins and you loose, period.

2) There are zero subjects taught in University that cannot be learned from books, much more cheaply. There are myriad subjects not taught in University at all, but which can be learned from books, if you have the discipline. Thus IMHO, Universities serve only two useful purposes:

   a)   They are a great environment for young adults to "grow up", and the parties are great. Universities are the easiest place to get laid, period.

   b)   If you are in a field where the degree matters, you are stuck playing their stupid game and spending several hundred thousand dollars to (maybe) learn information you could have learned just as easily on your own at a public library.

My advice to young people: Avoid careers such as medicine where (b) is relevant, and if you go to college at all, pick a good party school and don't take the idea of learning anything useful there too seriously. Then separately learn to educate yourself by reading. That's what's worked for me, anyway.

All the best,

Erik

I'm going to defend Universities....

1. Never stay in a course with a Professor you don't like or disagree with.  Drop out and take the same or another course for the same credits some other time.  And if the Professor is really awful you can put together a petition.  In this case, protest the Professor's bias towards Keynes and turn the issue over to a public forum -- like the college newspaper.

2. University libraries are much more extensive than your local public library and you are surrounded by people who can help you out.  You can seek out the good Professors and generally they will help you. 

I found it very difficult to work and study after hours at the public library.  I learned at the University because I worked every other semester allowing me to concentrate on studying while on campus.  And Universities are connected to jobs and internships allowing you to try out different jobs, which is useful when you still aren't sure what you want to do.

Agree though that 2a is true generally ...

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Erik T.
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Joined: Aug 5 2008
Posts: 1234
Re: What's so wrong with Keynes and Fiat, anyway?
r wrote:

2. University libraries are much more extensive than your local public library and you are surrounded by people who can help you out.  You can seek out the good Professors and generally they will help you. 

I emphatically agree. And what's more, the chicks in University libraries are much better looking than the ones in public libraries.

But you don't have to pay the tuition to hang out at the University library (in the case of most open-campus universities), and if you know how to network, you can get invited to the college parties by hanging out at the library and educating yourself. Bottom line, there is no need to pay tuition unless you've chosen a field where the degree is essential, and the worthwhile parts of college (good libraries and getting laid) are free to anyone who chooses to wander onto campus and check out the library.

-Erik (who spent most of high school at MIT, has no degrees and has never been enrolled in a degree program, and who retired at 33)

 

ccpetersmd's picture
ccpetersmd
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 12 2008
Posts: 799
Re: What's so wrong with Keynes and Fiat, anyway?

Erik, funny comments! But, as a plug for medicine, there is not only the undergraduate education, there is also medical school, internship and residency to consider. Which amounts to lots of additional time to have romantic entanglements! Oh, and yes, you do learn how to help others, too.

lryms's picture
lryms
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 9 2009
Posts: 2
Re: What's so wrong with Keynes and Fiat, anyway?

can you just show him this video

and this one

 

A. M.'s picture
A. M.
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 22 2008
Posts: 2367
Re: What's so wrong with Keynes and Fiat, anyway?

I'm good to hook on romantic entanglements...
Mostly interested in building useful skills and knowledge that allows me to help others and provide useful services for my community.

This thread has superceded my expections in every possible way.
The facts, humor and great overall outlook is what makes this site unique.

And Davos, next time go ahead and tell us what you really think =D

I'm going to discuss the faulty logic with the other students in my class and cut the instructor out of the loop entirely.
That way I can reach people who still might be open minded and aware.

Cheers,

Aaron

Davos's picture
Davos
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 17 2008
Posts: 3620
Re: What's so wrong with Keynes and Fiat, anyway?
Aaron Moyer wrote:

And Davos, next time go ahead and tell us what you really think =D

I never hold back. Tact =brick coming through a window. Mincing words is for moronic politicians. Nothing will ever change if we don't first admit we have problems.

A. M.'s picture
A. M.
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 22 2008
Posts: 2367
Re: What's so wrong with Keynes and Fiat, anyway?

I love it.
I was grinnin' ear to ear reading that post because it directly reflected how I felt with information reinforcing it.
 
That and I don't think you could possible be more correct.
Who's up for another round of bailouts?!
And actually... how many are we up to now?

Cheers?

Aaron 

 

ao's picture
ao
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 4 2009
Posts: 2220
Re: What's so wrong with Keynes and Fiat, anyway?
ErikTownsend wrote:

[But you don't have to pay the tuition to hang out at the University library (in the case of most open-campus universities), and if you know how to network, you can get invited to the college parties by hanging out at the library and educating yourself. Bottom line, there is no need to pay tuition unless you've chosen a field where the degree is essential, and the worthwhile parts of college (good libraries and getting laid) are free to anyone who chooses to wander onto campus and check out the library.

-Erik (who spent most of high school at MIT, has no degrees and has never been enrolled in a degree program, and who retired at 33)

Erik,

You is my HERO!  I wish I had the cajones to have done that.  Congrats on doing an end run around the system and succeeding!

Davos,

You have all my respect.  In the best of both worlds, Aaron would figuratively smack the prof upside the head as you discussed and then take Erik's tack and do an end run around the system.

Aaron,

If I may ask, what are you studying and/or what field are you anticipating entering?  You have the brains to take the path Erik did but I have to admit, the societal validation conferred by a degree or degrees carries a lot of weight.

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