What's so wrong with Credit Card Default?

90 posts / 0 new
Last post
kylefenwick7's picture
kylefenwick7
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 4 2009
Posts: 9
What's so wrong with Credit Card Default?

Anyone have any thoughts about my question?

Banks default all the time on their debt. But, if the individual does it we are "bad people." Even with a perfect credit score you can't get a loan. What is the down side to using all you CCs to buy food, etc and use your cash to buy Gold and Silver? Then, just default on the debt and either pay a few pennies on the dollar or, when hyperinflation hits, sell 1/2 an ounce of gold and pay the balances off?


The banks and the Fed has stolen our money (buying power) and now the banks we owe credit card debt to just got our taxes, IRA, and 401Ks. What is wrong with our screwing over the banks!?

Am I missing something?

Thank you or your thoughts! 

grl's picture
grl
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 30 2008
Posts: 188
Re: What's so wrong with Credit Card Default?
kylefenwick7 wrote:


Am I missing something?

Um yeah....morality, honor, a code of ethic, honesty etc, etc.

But apparently none of that matters anymore.

kylefenwick7's picture
kylefenwick7
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 4 2009
Posts: 9
Re: What's so wrong with Credit Card Default?

Code of ethics. We have a gov't that has planned middle americas downfall (don't get me wrong, we did not really stop them). What I am saying is why not protect what is our and what we worked hard for (they govt and banks were not honorable....so why should we pay them back with our hard earned money when the would think nothing of hurting us)? Would it not be better to protect our family, children with out money then just give it back? 

lundsta's picture
lundsta
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 13 2008
Posts: 89
Re: What's so wrong with Credit Card Default?

I understand your arguement here but we know life is not perfect and always fair. Some people get away with murder does that make it ok for us to start killing people? Some bankers did cheat people because they are greedy so it is ok for me to cheat others? I have seen this moral delimma come up recently on this site. The bottom line is we are not going to agree, but I feel when I look back through my life I want to be proud of my choices...lifestyle...what I taught my children....and I hope I did everything the best I could.

 

This notion of doing it just because others are is a cop out.

kylefenwick7's picture
kylefenwick7
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 4 2009
Posts: 9
Re: What's so wrong with Credit Card Default?

I don't agree that it is a 'cop out'. I am not saying don't pay it off, but if you let it default you can negotiate the balance down and pay the balance off by selling gold. I think the situation in the economy is not going to get better so it may just come down to survival. You can protect yourself and buy gold now so you can eat later or have a perfect credit score and die hungry when credit cards are not accepted. I guess I am being too black and white. I realize the 'moral' implications but the whole "worship your FICO score" spouted by the Media is a tool to keep the middle class in line. I say, protect your family while you can.

lundsta's picture
lundsta
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 13 2008
Posts: 89
Re: What's so wrong with Credit Card Default?

If the worst happens debt.....your career....retirement will not exsist. We will all be in survival mode. Right now taxpayers are on the hook for some  who were not in a hardship and wanted to take advantage of the system. If you are buying food on your credit cards knowing you are not going to pay it back and are not in a hardship than your decision is effecting others.

SkylightMT's picture
SkylightMT
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 30 2008
Posts: 125
Re: What's so wrong with Credit Card Default?

Did you get stuff with that credit card? So... isn't that like stealing if you don't pay it back?

kylefenwick7's picture
kylefenwick7
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 4 2009
Posts: 9
Re: What's so wrong with Credit Card Default?

I am not recommending "don't pay it back", all I am saying pay is back on your terms - with some strategy -  so as to have inflation work for you. Use the leverage derived from you credit cards to work in your favor.

caroline_culbert's picture
caroline_culbert
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 2 2008
Posts: 624
Re: What's so wrong with Credit Card Default?

Boy... this is a tough one.

1. If you pay your credit cards, you risk not being prepared for a desperate future (if TSHTF) if you have no other disposable income.

2. If you don't pay your credit cards, then you risk your credit score and the dependence upon good credit for the next seven years.  If you don't need the credit, for the next seven years, then #2 might be the option to go.

3. If you pay your credit cards after negotiating (via letters and offers) then you will have a bad credit score but not a tanked one.

4. If TSHTF and you have not considered these options, that is, not paying your credit cards, AND you are in foreclosure, then you'll probably file for Chap. 7 or 13 (which I think is the worst of all options available) because then, who knows who will pay for it-- the taxpayers maybe?

These above is what I'd be thinking of ONLY if I thought the TSWillBHTF; but I don't think TSWillBHTF.

kylefenwick7's picture
kylefenwick7
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 4 2009
Posts: 9
Re: What's so wrong with Credit Card Default?

These are some great points.

 

But, I was a banker and know a great deal about the OTC problems. The SwilHTF! There is no way out of this. The only way the US (and other nations) can get out of this mess is to have hyper-inflation. The up-tick rule has not been put in place an the Fed and the Admin are not stupid. They know what is going on. They are just buying time. I may sound crazy but: "head for the hills." I think credit cards (and credit in general) as we once knew it is a thing of the past. Things are not going to get better - they are going to get different.

kylefenwick7's picture
kylefenwick7
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 4 2009
Posts: 9
Re: What's so wrong with Credit Card Default?

The banks created this problem. If they had gone about things in a disciplined, conservative way as they should have then we would not collectively be in this mess. They made it difficult if not impossible for their clients to make a living so we can pay off the debt we owe them. Ironically, through their current actions they are also giving us the tools to skirt most of the debt at some future point in time. So screw them to hell.

The same goes for the government. I am not going to pay any more taxes (2 years running now) because I refuse to fund the vacation retreats and office remodeling of bank executives who created this mess. HELL NO. The IRS has been sending me threatening notices over the last few weeks but I'm not budging. They can kiss my ass. If they want money they can go begging to the bank execs.

I am not a serf.

Damnthematrix's picture
Damnthematrix
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 10 2008
Posts: 3998
Re: What's so wrong with Credit Card Default?

I'm surprised Sam L hasn't jumped on this one yet.....  must be asleep!  G'day Sam...

I believe we should ALL default on ALL our debts to bring the system down and enforce the introduction of a new one, prefereably one that does not involve banks at all.  Banks store hardly any cash anyway, so who needs them if we also end fractional banking?

Of course, you MUST expect to live a whole lot more frugally once your CCs are meaningless, and the ATMs won't spurt hundred dollar bills out at you.  But it could be done.

The system's finished, so why not end it now?  On our terms?

Mike 

kemosavvy's picture
kemosavvy
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 13 2008
Posts: 254
Re: What's so wrong with Credit Card Default?

Supposing you time the worlds greatest collapse and max out all credit cards with the intention of never repaying, good for you, but life still goes on after the crash and you now have to navigate a world in chaos with the stigma of being untrustworthy. on the other side of this disaster your credit score will mean nothing but your perceived identity will. the public may perceive you as a person not to be trusted and probably rightfully so because you tried to 'game' the system.

I would rather make it through this current situation and all future situations on my own merit.

food for thought. but this is a thread about your own moral compass not about whether it's a good idea or not.

 

caroline_culbert's picture
caroline_culbert
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 2 2008
Posts: 624
Re: What's so wrong with Credit Card Default?
kemosavvy wrote:

the public may perceive you as a person not to be trusted and probably rightfully so because you tried to 'game' the system.

I think the game was forfeited when the cheaters (Wall Street) took the money and ran and took/taking down the system we had.

kemosavvy wrote:

I would rather make it through this current situation and all future situations on my own merit.

This is a good idea but how many people actually never get a "leg up" and do everything strictly by their own merit?  Just curious as to what you think about this.  What do you think about the idea of "networking" and etc.?

kemosavvy wrote:

food for thought. but this is a thread about your own moral compass not about whether it's a good idea or not.

Very difficult, when the time comes (when/if TSHTF) to know what your moral compass is.  Does one even have it during a time of chaos?  Is it realistic to think that my moral compass should be the standard during these times?  I wouldn't steal food from the grocery store but if I was desperate and starving (esp. w/starving kids) I wouldn't bat an eyelash; I'd steal food in an instant.  What my moral compass is now may not be the same as tomorrow or a year from now when/if TSReallyHTF.  I just don't know. 

Sorry... Just in my opinion of course.

gtazman's picture
gtazman
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 6 2008
Posts: 48
Re: What's so wrong with Credit Card Default?
caroline_culbert wrote:

Boy... this is a tough one.

1. If you pay your credit cards, you risk not being prepared for a desperate future (if TSHTF) if you have no other disposable income.

2. If you don't pay your credit cards, then you risk your credit score and the dependence upon good credit for the next seven years.  If you don't need the credit, for the next seven years, then #2 might be the option to go.

3. If you pay your credit cards after negotiating (via letters and offers) then you will have a bad credit score but not a tanked one.

4. If TSHTF and you have not considered these options, that is, not paying your credit cards, AND you are in foreclosure, then you'll probably file for Chap. 7 or 13 (which I think is the worst of all options available) because then, who knows who will pay for it-- the taxpayers maybe?

These above is what I'd be thinking of ONLY if I thought the TSWillBHTF; but I don't think TSWillBHTF.

Caroline, this is indeed a tough question.  But, sometimes it is the only way out.  I speak of experience due to medical bills overwhelming my family in 2004.  I had 3 major credit cards that were maxed out.  In the end I was able to settle for 40-50% of the balance owed.  My credit report shows that I legally paid less that the full amount to close the overdue accounts.  Citibank took 4 years to agree to a payoff.  Bankruptcy was considered but, with the new rules, you end up paying almost half back plus the credit hit.  I saw my credit score go from 680 to 720 after I settled with Citibank. Explore all options.  I don't feel what I did was any worse than what many people do when best efforts are not enough.

kylefenwick7's picture
kylefenwick7
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 4 2009
Posts: 9
Re: What's so wrong with Credit Card Default?

Besides, most of use played by the rules and got screwed. It's been the banks game all along. Buy gold and you will have not need of credit (also, due to the crisis) credit limits are shrinking like crazy. So, use it or lose it and I vote use it....the banks are using you and the govt only cares about reelection. Where is Mrs. Thatcher when we need her!

chris_m's picture
chris_m
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 7 2009
Posts: 36
Re: What's so wrong with Credit Card Default?

Some people are trying to make the crash a self fullfilling prophecy is what I think.  Discussion about maxing credit with the intention of defaulting is just a mask for stealing & looting.  These people can call it what they like but in the end the result is no different (only difference is in the legal definition I guess).  This type of discussion will only serve to drive away responsible minded people looking to 'change things for the better' not worse. 

 People currently live better than ever before in the past.  There have been some serious mistakes made along the way but 'bringing down the system' is a bit extreme in my view.  Things will change probably for the worse in the short term but then problems will get resolved (How..is a long discussion) & things will improve again.  If the system is 'brought down' things will get very very very bad & lawlessness would result.  I would prefer somewhat of a slower controlled 'crash' from the perspective of trying to raise a family & plan for my kids futures.  Survival is key here not 'truimph'.

 People who want to game the system must look up to the "Madoff's" then I guess as he beat us all to the punch. 

I think the purpose of this site is a gathering of people & ideas to promote a community better in tune with economic realities not 'Get mine because someone else got theirs type of mentality."  The victim mentality for justification of 'irresponsible' behaviour never resolves an issue...only creates another one...sometime worse.  I wouldn't condone this type of behaviour in a child.... Ridiculous

 I've been (for reasons I can't talk about) to some terrible places in the world where this sort of behaviour goes on & If you think we have it so bad here then I suggest you re-evaluate your priorities.

 I apologise for sounding 'chastizing' & preachy here but these threads are really not 'helping' anything only destructive in purpose.

my opinion....rant off.....

caroline_culbert's picture
caroline_culbert
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 2 2008
Posts: 624
Re: What's so wrong with Credit Card Default?
chris_m wrote:

Some people are trying to make the crash a self fullfilling prophecy is what I think.  Discussion about maxing credit with the intention of defaulting is just a mask for stealing & looting.  These people can call it what they like but in the end the result is no different (only difference is in the legal definition I guess).  This type of discussion will only serve to drive away responsible minded people looking to 'change things for the better' not worse. 

 People currently live better than ever before in the past.  There have been some serious mistakes made along the way but 'bringing down the system' is a bit extreme in my view.  Things will change probably for the worse in the short term but then problems will get resolved (How..is a long discussion) & things will improve again.  If the system is 'brought down' things will get very very very bad & lawlessness would result.  I would prefer somewhat of a slower controlled 'crash' from the perspective of trying to raise a family & plan for my kids futures.  Survival is key here not 'truimph'.

 People who want to game the system must look up to the "Madoff's" then I guess as he beat us all to the punch. 

I think the purpose of this site is a gathering of people & ideas to promote a community better in tune with economic realities not 'Get mine because someone else got theirs type of mentality."  The victim mentality for justification of 'irresponsible' behaviour never resolves an issue...only creates another one...sometime worse.  I wouldn't condone this type of behaviour in a child.... Ridiculous

 I've been (for reasons I can't talk about) to some terrible places in the world where this sort of behaviour goes on & If you think we have it so bad here then I suggest you re-evaluate your priorities.

 I apologise for sounding 'chastizing' & preachy here but these threads are really not 'helping' anything only destructive in purpose.

my opinion....rant off.....

I do agree with much of what you say... but in the end I can only survive to the best of my ability.  If that means that I have to play the game to win the game (to eat or etc.) then I must.  I may not have started the game but it is ubiquitous.  I wish that I was on an island, with only my family and closest friends, living off the land, and just being; but this is not the case and I truly want the best for all of us-- everyone.  The paradox is (maybe not so much a paradox but more of a downer) that I MUST survive, and getting my "feelers" on and groping for anything that I can reach, to try to determine with as high a probability as I can, what the future has in store for us is all I want to do.  Morality to me is relative to any point in my life.  I'm just like most people, in that, I don't want to steal, kill, lie, etc.  But;

If someone attempt to kill me or a member of may family, then I WILL KILL.

If my family and I are starving, I WILL STEAL.

If I'm hiding gays and lesbians in my home, with the "Righteous Squad" intent on killing them, then I WILL LIE.

I know these are not very good examples, BUT I know the realities of my life and I truly don't want to live like this but I know that it is possible.

 

that1guy's picture
that1guy
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 11 2009
Posts: 333
Re: What's so wrong with Credit Card Default?

hmmm, well most threads that I have been reading aren’t promoting not paying your bills, although the ones that do seem to fall right in line with the fact that almost everything the government is doing promotes immoral/irresponsible things such as that. Personally I find it unfortunate that it seems to be panning out that way.

I would also have to agree that the US had, and still currently has it much better than many parts of the world (living standard wise). In the same note, that 'good' living off of borrowing and spending is what got us into this mess to begin with (I know there is a TON more to it, but I’m just trying to keep it simple for now).

With that said I don’t think want to take the system out as much as the fact that the system is taking itself out, and we are all caught in the middle. The only thing we can do as smart, responsible people (family man myself too) is prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

On a side note I would like to add that Chris himself even makes it a point on many threads and articles that paying down your debts should be one of your top priorities, which I would assume you agree based off your post (as do I). I would like to think, giving people the benefit of the doubt, that many that aren’t paying some of their bills feel they have no choice (many more are probably doing because the government is promoting it that way...horrible to see....) but then again, I cannot speak for others, only the way I see it.

 

caroline_culbert's picture
caroline_culbert
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 2 2008
Posts: 624
Re: What's so wrong with Credit Card Default?
that1guy wrote:

hmmm, well most threads that I have been reading aren’t promoting not paying your bills, although the ones that do seem to fall right in line with the fact that almost everything the government is doing promotes immoral/irresponsible things such as that. Personally I find it unfortunate that it seems to be panning out that way.

I would also have to agree that the US had, and still currently has it much better than many parts of the world (living standard wise). In the same note, that 'good' living off of borrowing and spending is what got us into this mess to begin with (I know there is a TON more to it, but I’m just trying to keep it simple for now).

With that said I don’t think want to take the system out as much as the fact that the system is taking itself out, and we are all caught in the middle. The only thing we can do as smart, responsible people (family man myself too) is prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

On a side note I would like to add that Chris himself even makes it a point on many threads and articles that paying down your debts should be one of your top priorities, which I would assume you agree based off your post (as do I). I would like to think, giving people the benefit of the doubt, that many that aren’t paying some of their bills feel they have no choice (many more are probably doing because the government is promoting it that way...horrible to see....) but then again, I cannot speak for others, only the way I see it.

 

I see what you're saying... I just don't know anymore.  I really like what you said.  I just know that "what I would like" is so different than "what is".  I try to strive for "what I would like"; I just don't let that keep me away from basic survival if that is what is probable to come.  I just want to be prepared but not overboard.  I don't want to advise people to "don't do this" or "don't do that" based on my morals because we may end up doing those exact things and, at the time those acts are being done, they may be perfectly normal (the norm) and etc. later.  The true paradox is "do you stay with what works and reject anything else"  or should we take chances and "like what works but take a chance on something that is quoted as being better?"  I hate change; but as I get older I'm getting quite used to it and it's made life fairly enjoyable (or interesting to say the least).  At least when I die, at the end of my life, I can say that I had a very eventful and interesting life (and it was fun). 

To tell you the truth-- I just don't know anymore and when I thought I had some answers a new paradox was knocking on my door.  Why I even utter words from my mouth is beyond me.

 

chris_m's picture
chris_m
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 7 2009
Posts: 36
Re: What's so wrong with Credit Card Default?

Caroline...you and I are on the same page.  You're arguements are reasonable & it is absolutely necessary to re-think the way we do thing (in my opinion)  That is a long way off from what is proposed in the title of this thread.

 In your examples you are referring to Basic Human Rights in my opinion.

If someone attempt to kill me or a member of may family, then I WILL KILL. ...this is the right to self defense.

If my family and I are starving, I WILL STEAL...basic survival ..grow a garden/ raise animals is a better solution (which you have the means to plan for now ) than brining down the system putting yourself in this mess just to force change.

 If I'm hiding gays and lesbians in my home, with the "Righteous Squad" intent on killing them, then I WILL LIE. ...you are protecting someone from undue persecution.  Absolutley a basic Human right.

 I think sometimes all this 'bring down the system' talk is brought on by people who have seen their gold devalue short term & are motivated a bit more by profit (short-term), rather than true plan for the worst but hope for the best (long term) strategy. ..just my opinion

 All the best....

 p.s.  What type of person would you prefer living next door?  or in your community "post crash"  Remember 'community' being the key word.

 

 

paranoid's picture
paranoid
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 27 2009
Posts: 140
Re: What's so wrong with Credit Card Default?

this is a great thread I think deserves to be revisited after the last 3 months. We see that TSHHTF, that the looting of those in power, and thier overt efforts to subjugate the masses (us) is even more obvious, and that for some like myself, feelings of using all available resources (aka credit) to prepare or hedge an uncertain future - make more sense.

If you read enough neurobiology, evolutionatry psychology and history books you realize that for 99.999% of all people, morals are quite an illusion. When they feel safe and secure, its easy to judge and have 'morality'. Typically, for example, in South Africa, the rich, white, conservative populace is the one with the most morals, for obvious reasons.

If the ship is sinking and someone has a table full of life-jackets for everyone on board, but they are for sale. Problem is- you can't afford one - so when (if ever) do you take one? when the cold water hits your feet I doubt anyone would not take one!

jneo's picture
jneo
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 7 2009
Posts: 742
Re: What's so wrong with Credit Card Default?

 

 

Screw the Credit Card Companies.  It's Digital Money.  It's horse crap

Morpheus's picture
Morpheus
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 27 2008
Posts: 1200
Re: What's so wrong with Credit Card Default?
grl wrote:
kylefenwick7 wrote:


Am I missing something?

Um yeah....morality, honor, a code of ethic, honesty etc, etc.

But apparently none of that matters anymore.

Doesn't matter when you're dealing with legalized organized crime.

If I lose my job I won't pay my credit cards.(<2,000)

And I'll deadbeat it with great pride.

paranoid's picture
paranoid
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 27 2009
Posts: 140
Re: What's so wrong with Credit Card Default?

Organized Crime - that is a great way to frame it. In many ways - I see the OP's logic= is stealing from someone who stole from you immoral? How about if your survival depends on it? I tend to think not.

Morpheus's picture
Morpheus
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 27 2008
Posts: 1200
Re: What's so wrong with Credit Card Default?
paranoid wrote:

Organized Crime - that is a great way to frame it. In many ways - I see the OP's logic= is stealing from someone who stole from you immoral? How about if your survival depends on it? I tend to think not.

Watch The Secret History of the Credit Card and see if you still feel that way.

Besides candy bars from the local dime store growing up, I've never stolen anything. I don't steal, I don't cheat.

But I have to ask myself why I would be an accomplice to my own heist.

You have to watch that video. Here... www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/credit/

Think of me then as a moral repo man.

Just getting back what clever lobbyists and willing enablers called senators stole from me in the first place.

I still pay my bills timely. But if I lose my revenue source that stops hasta pronto. You can't eat your high FICA score.

Gungnir's picture
Gungnir
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 2 2009
Posts: 643
Re: What's so wrong with Credit Card Default?

Interestingly let me relate two current Credit Card issues I've had recently

  1. Discover Credit Limit $25,000, unused for 12 months (it was an Emergency high cap credit line, so little used), Discover closed this credit line without informing me or my wife, when we tried to use it, we were rejected, so we just naturally used another card, until we tried it again, and it was rejected again. We spoke to them about it and they informed us it was closed due to inactivity, when I asked why we'd not been informed, they claimed we had, however we'd just received new cards a week before the attempted use (which we called them to validate receipt, and the account was still active then), which makes it appear right hand and left hand are a little confused.
  2. Chase Credit card, $15 overdue fee, for no overdue payment. Spoke with CC Company and it was apparently a clerical error. I wonder how many such clerical errors happened last month, and who called and questioned the overdue charge.

Both of these have me highly concerned as to the state of Credit Card companies, and their wheeling and dealing. Especially when one impacts my credit score (Discover closing a 25k credit line). I've never made a late payment in my life, and I've always paid off my credit cards and rolling accounts monthly.

Makes me wonder whether having a credit score at all will be meaningful in the next 12-18 months.

 

Amy Selmer's picture
Amy Selmer
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 23 2008
Posts: 16
Re: What's so wrong with Credit Card Default?

Actually, I read the OP as asking a purely pragmatic question, sort of a "will this come back to bite me in the butt".  I'm afraid that I'm not highly qualified to answer that re: credit card debt, since neither I nor my husband has ever carried a balance for more than a couple of months.  I do know that I've wondered about the blanket prescription to pay off all debt first, though.  If we don't consider the actual risk/benefit of paying or not paying--as a top priority, as we're always told to do--are we really just being tools? 

Certainly I agree that there is an amazing amount of stuff that either should be or actually is criminal going on all the time in the financial world, and we're left with little choice but to play the sucker.  For example, do you rent indefinitely and avoid "debt" but leave yourself subject to eviction on almost any pretext and never get to really invest in your home, or do you sign a paper making you liable for >$600K on your overvalued $280K home and specifically stating that you're not allowed to save money by paying in advance?  And, having knowingly signed that paper, are you obligated to respect it at all costs, or do you, at some point, say "hey, this is a sucker's deal" and tell the bank to stuff it?  And with credit cards, is there a moral difference between defaulting on bills you ran up buying shoes and getting your nails done and bills you ran up paying the power bill and grocery shopping?

I don't know all the answers, but I think it's a terribly interesting discussion.  I also think that some of the kneejerk reactions here are interesting.  For example:

life still goes on after the crash and you now have to navigate a world in chaos with the stigma of being untrustworthy. on the other side of this disaster your credit score will mean nothing but your perceived identity will. the public may perceive you as a person not to be trusted and probably rightfully so because you tried to 'game' the system.

Seriously?  So, what, the credit company will post a notice on my door, which everyone will then march up and read, and the whole neighborhood's gonna know I defaulted on my credit card?  And, in this wildly improbably scenario, will they even care?

I think we're going to value different things in the future, no matter what happens.  For example, I personally would prefer to have a neighbor who had done as th OP suggests and used their ready money to prepare for the worst than one who "played by the rules" and now has to beg my beans and potatoes to feed his kids.  Already, I think, attitudes towards defaulting on debt are changing in the general population.

As for moral compass, I absolutely agree with much of what Caroline said, with one exception: My moral compass is absolutely fixed.  I try always to do what is of the most possible benefit to the most possible people, but in the center of the ring of "possible people" is and always will be my family.  If my options contract to the point that I can only do good to my family, then so be it.

Gungnir's picture
Gungnir
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 2 2009
Posts: 643
Re: What's so wrong with Credit Card Default?
Pete In Florida wrote:

Think of me then as a moral repo man.

Actually I'm with you on this. While I believe the benefit of paying off Credit cards is in my favor, I'll continue to do so. As soon as the pendulum swings towards it being their benefit (not mine) to pay off that debt, then I'll be entirely goods based with no real "assets" for them to repo.

 

Morpheus's picture
Morpheus
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 27 2008
Posts: 1200
Re: What's so wrong with Credit Card Default?
Gungnir wrote:
Pete In Florida wrote:

Think of me then as a moral repo man.

Actually I'm with you on this. While I believe the benefit of paying off Credit cards is in my favor, I'll continue to do so. As soon as the pendulum swings towards it being their benefit (not mine) to pay off that debt, then I'll be entirely goods based with no real "assets" for them to repo.

 

Actually it's beyond that. It's legal organized crime. Watch the video. What they do is such an immoral abomination that once they've made a decent profit off of you then I think when the time comes, there is no moral obligation to continue to let them leech off of your labor.

First, there is NO free market here, especially in the credit card racket. The rebuttal "you don't have to sign the agreement" is a red herring.

Try traveling without credit cards. Try getting a home loan. Try ordering online. Debit cards don't always cover these necessities, particularly credit ratings for a mortgage.

They, through their pawns in the CONgress and Senate, have us by the jewels. They can fleece us because our "representatives" say that it's OK too. The political class takes care of their bosses in the financial industry (capital class) and when it's time for re-election, CHA-CHING!!!!, donations come pouring in, or if by a miracle they happen to lose their re-election, there's always that revolving door into a 7 figure board of directors slot at some company. The fix is, and has been in.

Problem is that after they are flush with all that cash, CONgressmen, and Senators put the mind bend to the American public. Who in my opinion are dumber than a potted fern plant. Promise them a program (with their own money of course), swear you'll get tough on crime, drugs, terrorism, (insert fear-mongering issue here) and you've got half of them. If you have a cute smile, dress nice and have a really good hairstyle then you mop up the rest of the vote. It's sad.

It's a rigged game. And for the most part we have no choice but to be victims. That's why, when this economy collapses I encourage no one to pay their credit card debt.

They've made it back in spades already. Trust me. We're just little wellsprings of wealth for the political-capital class and we're stuck in a parasitic relationship that we cannot get out of.  We need to stop that.

Gungnir's picture
Gungnir
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 2 2009
Posts: 643
Re: What's so wrong with Credit Card Default?

Pete, Don't get me wrong on this, the pendulum has begun to swing, and I knew that the whole Credit Card system was a racket, where they take their slice of the pie at both ends, and in the middle too if they can. What I gained was not monetary or even related to financial matters, but proved I was acceptable to become a US Citizen (yes that's right boys and girls if your credit is bad in the US, it can cause issues with naturalization) so you can see where the rot has reached.

Of course the all embracing FICA credit rating is another issue too certain people who are remarkably affluent have terrible credit ratings, since they don't use credit, but pay cash, I think this is an illustration of how broken the system is, your credit score shows how much blood the vampires can suck from you rather than your credit worthiness. Which is ironic, because high credit scores are seen as desireable in mainstream America.

Finally of course you get to pay anyway, since every household in the US currently owes ~$520,000 that the government has vouched that they'll pay for.

So Pay, and you get screwed anyway

Don't pay, and you get screwed anyway

Regardless of paying or not paying the government will bail it out anyway (as proven by previous action) and give you debt to handle later, whether you like it or not.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Login or Register to post comments