What's Silver Doing?

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SagerXX's picture
SagerXX
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What's Silver Doing?

So as I close in on my silver purchase, does anybody have advice for a neophyte?  I'm talking a relatively small amount of physical silver, and I have  dealer I like.  Seems like it's down right now (in the medium-low teens/oz.).  Up from where it was 18 months ago, but down from a coupla months ago.  I guess I'm just seeking advice if there's any obvious st00pid pitfalls I oughta avoid.  

I'm starting this separate thread because gold seems to get all the attention here.

Thanks in advance for giving clues to the clueless...ehrm...>>Me.

Viva -- Sager 

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Re: What's Silver Doing?

curious of this too 

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Re: What's Silver Doing?

Sager,

I have purchased some silver lots at various times. As with gold purchases, shop around to make sure you get a good price. I don't know about your local dealer, but mine is usually better than the major on-line guys (kitco, apmex, etc.). If I were in the market for more silver, this would be a time that I would buy.

As with my gold purchases, I'm holding silver for wealth preservation as well as considering its use as money if/when our fiat currency bites the dust. One ounce of silver is more usable than one ounce of gold for small purchases.

Feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions. My local dealer has an on-line presence and ships all over the country.

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Re: What's Silver Doing?

APMEX is having a 4th of July silver sale.  The have some good prices with some silver bars and rounds at only $0.79 over spot. Since silver prices dropped during the last few days, this might be a good opportunity to buy.

><>Larry

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Re: What's Silver Doing?

Hey, cool.  Only one more post and I'm a silver member.  I'll have to do it on this thread!!

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junk silver sale and silver now
Mr. Fri wrote:

APMEX is having a 4th of July silver sale.  The have some good prices with some silver bars and rounds at only $0.79 over spot. Since silver prices dropped during the last few days, this might be a good opportunity to buy.

><>Larry

And they have $1000 and $500 face value bags of junk silver at $0.30 over spot. I think that's about the best pricing I've seen in a while.

It does look like silver is on a bit of a 'sale' in general right now. I'm watching it closely as I'd like to get some more physical for investment and maybe some SLV for short term trading. The technicals discussions I've read show a pullback now preceeding a possible run up. But with this strange economy and all the manipulations, who knows? Read a lot and track the trends. I listen to Financial Sense Newshour and read the free stuff from The Gold and Oil Guy. Information is power.

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Re: What's Silver Doing?

Hi Sager,

I see that the gold/silver ratio hit 69/1 yesterday. This represents a reversal of trend from its lowest point of 61/1 a couple of weeks ago and is forecasting another credit (liquidity) crisis. During last fall's crash, the ratio reached an extreme of 84-85/1, and it looks as though it is headed back to those extremes. Therefore, to get the most bang for your buck, you might want to wait until the ratio approaches 80/1 to make any significant purchase of silver. You can track the ratio here, at the bottom of the table. Current forecasts for this ratio are 88/1.

Source: Bob Hoye, chief financial strategist of Institutional Advisors. Weekly audio of his viewpoints can be found here.

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Re: What's Silver Doing?

Sager XX

I have purchased some silver (90% silver coins) and am glad I have it.  Unless your tight on cash, I personally wouldn't be too concerned about the current price or premiums.  in the end it wont matter.    I  think that's CMs take on it.  If we go into hyperinflation, in a lot of ways silver seems more practical than gold.  I am somewhat concerned that the average Joe may not understand or believe that a 1964 JFK 1/2 dollar has silver in it.    

Not to bring up gold again, but the blog from the man in Argentina (that I've seen posted several times) brings up some good points.  He said that after hyperinflation in Argentina, that 14K gold rings were quite valuable when trying to make purchases in flee markets etc.  He said that people would assume all gold was of the lowest grade, so if you wanted to trade an 18 K gold ring for another item, it would only get priced as 14 K.   I am personally looking for a pawn shop where I can find and buy a stash of gold rings

 

bluestone

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Re: What's Silver Doing?

I have found through my silver purchases, that it is best to go for 100 ounce, 10 ounce, or 5 ounce bars.  They have the lowest markup which enables you to be positive on the trade the fastest.  I think Eagles and the other ounce coins are a bit of a rip off because you are paying such a high premium over spot. 

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Re: What's Silver Doing?
Jarhett wrote:

I have found through my silver purchases, that it is best to go for 100 ounce, 10 ounce, or 5 ounce bars.  They have the lowest markup which enables you to be positive on the trade the fastest.  I think Eagles and the other ounce coins are a bit of a rip off because you are paying such a high premium over spot. 

 

In general, getting larger volumes is better.  However, sometimes the price of 1oz rounds are as cheep as high volume bars.  For example, at the AMPEX site they're selling 1oz rounds for $ 0.79 over spot (regardless of volume) whereas their 10 oz bars usually go for $0.99 to $1.29 over spot. I'm not an APMEX fanboy, I just see this as a good opportunity get some smaller denomination at the same price as large volumes.

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Re: What's Silver Doing?
Mr. Fri wrote:

 

In general, getting larger volumes is better.  However, sometimes the price of 1oz rounds are as cheep as high volume bars.  For example, at the AMPEX site they're selling 1oz rounds for $ 0.79 over spot (regardless of volume) whereas their 10 oz bars usually go for $0.99 to $1.29 over spot. I'm not an APMEX fanboy, I just see this as a good opportunity get some smaller denomination at the same price as large volumes.

Congrats Fri on "going silver" in the silver thread!  As for buying online, I'm all about the anonymity of walking into somebody's bricks'n'mortar shop, handing over greenbacks and walking out again.  I won't get as good of a price (and it's a hassle driving to Albany), but...

As for timing my purchases to maximize value (Steve & JAG), that would be sweet to do.  I am a bit at the mercy of my (chock-full) schedule and basically once I have my $ collected I'll take the first opportunity to get coin in hand.  I'll keep one eyeball on that link you included, JAG -- thanks.

Bluestone/Sam -- yes, while it'd be great to buy in a temporary trough, my reasoning behind PM is to use it as a hedge for a possible future where paper isn't money (or so whacked w/hyperinflation as to be virtually worthless).  So up 5% here, down 10% there, is a lesser concern in my point of view.  I bought my gold at $978 but that's not giving me any sleepless nights.  And I feel like silver coinage will be more easily negotiated in that possible future since when you're buying groceries, few folks will be able to make change for a gold coin that's worth an acre of land or four cows or whatever.  

Thanks for all the input folks -- ya'll riz-ock!

Viva -- Sager

 

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Re: What's Silver Doing?

Thanks, SagerXX, for rousing the masses on this site from their gold-centricism. Go silver! Go silver!

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Re: What's Silver Doing?
mainecooncat wrote:

Thanks, SagerXX, for rousing the masses on this site from their gold-centricism. Go silver! Go silver!

And for my next trick:  "The Definitive Palladium Thread"!  

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Re: What's Silver Doing?
SagerXX wrote:
mainecooncat wrote:

Thanks, SagerXX, for rousing the masses on this site from their gold-centricism. Go silver! Go silver!

And for my next trick:  "The Definitive Palladium Thread"!  

I'll briefly dispense with the phenomenon of communication via initials: That gave me the best laugh I've had in a few days!

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Re: What's Silver Doing?

 Cool!  

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Re: What's Silver Doing?

Good Job SagerXX starting this crucial thread. As CM himself (see 'Take Action'),  the link below, and I all strongly believe, silver will be MUCH more useful in an economic meltdown/survivalist scenario than Krugerrands. When you go to buy bread, who's gonna give you change for your 1 oz gold coin?

http://www.cmi-gold-silver.com/small-survival-gold-silver-coins.html

I'd --- respectfully --- add a note of caution to some of the folks in this thread advising bars of silver, as you get into the same problem as with how to make change for the larger gold coins. Bars are indeed a great low-premium way to INVEST in silver, for sure. But if you want to invest AND have your investment also useful in a post-hyperinflation, survivalist scenario, --- ie, useful to make sure you and your family eat, drink water, and generally stay alive --- make it coins. (I do agree that Silver Eagles are way overpriced now ---- so, stick with 90% silver pre 1964 US coins. )

Dont get me wrong, I have my share of 1 oz Krugerrands and Gold Eagles, as they can be a nice, compact, easily portable store of alot of wealth, and could still come in handy for big purchases in a SHTF scenario. But I've tried to balance with plenty of 90% silver US coins and 1/10th oz gold eagles.

My advice is dont sweat trying to time the bottom of the market. All the precious metals are going up. Bernanke is making sure.

Try silverinvestor.com, too. ALOT of overlap with what Chris sees going on.

 

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Re: What's Silver Doing?

 LOL at your name roscoe.

Keep an eye on those no good Duke boys...Happy 4th of July

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Re: What's Silver Doing?

Assuming that mark-up or price over spot is just about the same, would you get 1 oz rounds of silver OR would you get the 90% "junk" silver coins? 

It seems that it would be bit confusing calculating silver content on the different coins...

Wikipedia:

The most commonly collected U.S. junk silver pieces are Mercury and Roosevelt dimes, Washington quarters, and Franklin and Kennedy half dollars, minted in or before 1964. These coins have a 90% silver composition (”coin silver“), and when minted contained 0.7234 troy ounces of silver per dollar of face value. In practice, the content is usually assumed to be 0.715 ounces because of wear. Less common as junk silver are Kennedy half dollars from 1965 to 1970, which contained 40% silver. Peace Dollars may also be collected for their silver value, but are also less common.

Canadian dimes and quarters contained 80% silver (0.600 troy ounces per dollar of face value) until 1966. In 1967, they were minted in both 80% and 50% varieties. In 1968 they either contained 50% silver, or none at all (Cupro-Nickel). Dollars and half dollars were minted in 80% silver until 1967.

 

What are the main reasons for going for junk silvers vs. bullion?

Thanks! :-)

 

 

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Re: What's Silver Doing?
JAG wrote:

 LOL at your name roscoe.

Second that.    

And thanks again everybody for the ongoing participation in this thread.  It was only about a week ago (thanks to the "2 Beers w/Steve" podcast about PMs) that it sunk in how important a part of the overall strategy silver is.  Gold for the mo' bigger things;  silver for the more day-to-day-ish stuff.  

Viva -- Sager

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Re: What's Silver Doing?
lacourre wrote:

It seems that it would be bit confusing calculating silver content on the different coins...

What are the main reasons for going for junk silvers vs. bullion?

Thanks! :-)

 

Very good question. I've often wondered about that myself.

The advantage of silver rounds is that the silver content is printed right on the coin itself and it would be redeemable at whatever the market price for silver is at that time.

I'm not sure what advantage would be obtained by "junk silver" - perhaps familiarity with the face value of the coins? But then, you lose out on the silver value unless you deal with someone who knows the intrinsic silver content of each coin.

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Re: What's Silver Doing?

I have been dying for a thread that further expounds upon information regarding silver.  I have searched for books on it, and have had little success.  I read through the Rich Dad's guide to precious metals but found it more to be a book for advertising than legitimate information.

My question is concerned with what is the best silver investment i.e. random rounds, junk silver, or eagles?  You also never hear about other precious metals e.g. platnium and palladium <--- infomation related to investing in these PMs would be appreciated.

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Re: What's Silver Doing?
Kurosawa wrote:

I have been dying for a thread that further expounds upon information regarding silver.  I have searched for books on it, and have had little success.  I read through the Rich Dad's guide to precious metals but found it more to be a book for advertising than legitimate information.

My question is concerned with what is the best silver investment i.e. random rounds, junk silver, or eagles?  You also never hear about other precious metals e.g. platnium and palladium <--- infomation related to investing in these PMs would be appreciated.

 

Kurosawa - good questions. Following is my personal opinion and not to be construed as professional financial advice (Dang - I hate having to keep saying that!)

It depends on your intent. If you are buying silver for use as money or barter in really hard times (dollar has gone bye-bye), then small increments of silver are best (rounds, eagles, etc.).

If you are buying silver for a long term hold to preserve wealth and don't plan on ever using it as money, then larger increments of silver (10oz, 100oz, kilo, etc.) may be your best bet. Certainly the current premiums are less than the coins. Of course, if you ever want to redeem them for something else, you'll need to find someone who appreciates the value of such a large chunk of silver (such as a metals or coin dealer) and is willing to redeem the silver for whatever is being used as money at that time.

As for other precious metals (like platinum and palladium), these are less well known to the average person (and even more expensive) and may not be useful for day-to-day exchange in the future. As with large bars of silver, you would need to locate a dealer who would be able to verify the value of the metal and be willing to redeem it.

Like everything these days, it's a guessing game. Hope this helps a little bit.

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Silver Eagles?

Is there any reason not to stick w/Silver Eagles when I make the buy?  I know there's a lessser premium on Philharmonics, et al, but it seems to me that barring any substantial reason to the contrary (other than the cash) it's prolly best to just stick w/US coins?

Viva -- Sager 

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Re: What's Silver Doing?

Sager,

Eagles are tendered "$1.00" coins. They are literally worth $1 as tender.
Now, this might not seem significant, but for less money, you can buy the $5 tender Canadian Maple Leaf.

It just seems to me that regardless of the value of the metals, might as well be getting the most for your money.

Just a thought.

Aaron

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Re: What's Silver Doing?
Aaron Moyer wrote:

Sager,

Eagles are tendered "$1.00" coins. They are literally worth $1 as tender.
Now, this might not seem significant, but for less money, you can buy the $5 tender Canadian Maple Leaf.

It just seems to me that regardless of the value of the metals, might as well be getting the most for your money.

Just a thought.

Aaron

So...whoa.  I go to a dealer, pay $15 (whatever spot is plus 6% or whatever), and I get a $1 coin?  And I do this because...I'm Krazy For Numismatics?  Either I'm misunderstanding, or that's a goofy phenomenon...

Then again, this is just the sort of clue I oh-so-obviously need...Thanks Aaron!

Viva -- Sager

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Re: What's Silver Doing?

"Wow" Aaron you made my day, that is a brilliant idea! I never even looked at Canadian silver since a friend of mine mainly deals in Silver Eagles. I have some gold in Canadian Maple leafs & Eagles but they are in the same dollars per ounce coins I believe. I just assumed silver would be the sam.

Also as a side note I feel the Canadian dollar will do much better over time than the US dollar.

The more I read it looks like silver is going to out perform gold.

http://lynncoins.com/canadian.htm

PS Aaron I saw in another thread where you talked about not posting as much. I hope you keep posting away. I have never read one of your post that I did not enjoy. Really...you have great sense IMHO & very helpful.

Many Thanks

Idoc

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Re: What's Silver Doing?

What Aaron said confused me a bit, so I PM'd him to make sure I understood what he was saying.

What he's suggesting is that in a worst case scenario, maybe nobody will accept the coin for the silver value but only for the face value. So, imagine you bought one Eagle and one Maple Leaf (say that each cost $15.00 in our example). At the end of the day, the face value of the Eagle is USD1.00 and the face value of the Maple Leaf is CAD5.00 - regardless of the silver content.

So, by buying Maple Leafs instead of Eagles, you're protected somewhat both by the face value as well as the silver content.

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Re: What's Silver Doing?
idoctor wrote:

"Wow" Aaron you made my day, that is a brilliant idea! I never even looked at Canadian silver since a friend of mine mainly deals in Silver Eagles. I have some gold in Canadian Maple leafs & Eagles but they are in the same dollars per ounce coins I believe. I just assumed silver would be the sam.

Also as a side note I feel the Canadian dollar will do much better over time than the US dollar.

The more I read it looks like silver is going to out perform gold.

http://lynncoins.com/canadian.htm

PS Aaron I saw in another thread where you talked about not posting as much. I hope you keep posting away. I have never read one of your post that I did not enjoy. Really...you have great sense IMHO & very helpful.

Many Thanks

Idoc

idoctor,

I looked at your link. Compared to other on-line sources, they seem to be quite pricey. You might consider checking out kitco.com, apmex.com, and ajpm.com for options (I have no connection to any of them except that I've bought gold from kitco and gold/silver from ajpm).

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Re: What's Silver Doing?

iDoc,

Thank you kindly - it's much appreciated.
I have so much respect for this forum that I don't want to go "overboard" responding to threads that are leading no-where... I'll still post when something comes up that I have experience with.

Here is my response to Sam, in case anyone is interested. My answer was a bit baffling at first Glance:

Quote:

...It's the face value on the coins.
The Canadian Government values the Maple leaf (.999 Troy Oz., Silver; Fine) at $5.
The American Government values the Liberty (.999 Troy Oz., Silver; Fine) at $1.
It's [the Liberty] a "one dollar" coin.
It doesn't have anything to do with the actual value - it's just the government won't accept the Liberty as anything other than a one dollar coin.
The Maple Leaf is a $5 coin.

Really not a big deal, but this is what I was told by a fellow who was "watching out" for me buying Silver.
 
Clear as mud?

Quote:

I agree on the silver coins. I don't give a rip about what the government says. But... if you have to trade... Would you rather have a $1 face value, or a $5?
Novices will choose five every time I'll betcha ;)

Cheers all, and glad I could help,

Aaron

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Selling Bullion

 Has anyone had any experience selling gold/silver bullion to a dealer? I was wondering if its standard practice for the dealer to pay you some of the premium on coins that are in high demand, such as Eagles? I know premiums on Bullion have dropped recently, but I don't expect that to last.

I have given some thought to my PM exit strategy lately, and since I believe its likely we will see silver drop 30-40% in price this fall, I thought I might actually sell some silver Eagles to the dealer tomorrow just to see how its done.

I know that many of you are buy-and-hold type PM investors, so I'm not sure anyone would have any experience in selling, but I thought I should inquire about it.

Thanks for your input....Jeff

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Re: What's Silver Doing?

Selling to a dealer is always a loss for you.

If you've got silver you want to sell, PM me ;)

They'll give you 4 or 5 bucks less than what you deserve.

Cheers,

Aaron

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