What's The End Game?

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What's The End Game?

After being on this site for over 6 months now and having learned so much from all the contributions of Chris and all the members, I have one question.... What is the end game?

On one hand it seems that this historic collapse of our country/world is just mere incompetency, unintelligence, irresponsibility, greed, etc.. by our representatives in our government and on Wall St. that it has finally caught up with them and us.

On the other hand it seems (and I'm leaning towards this camp) that this has been orchestrated consciously by TPTB from the beginning.  The reason I say that is because of the continuous deception our government bestows on us.  The lies we hear day-in/day-out is just remarkable.  What are they trying to do?  Why does it seem that we are being cheated on so blatently that they arrogantly rub it in our faces with a shit eaten grin.   

In either case, we talk about planting gardens, buying guns, storing food, etc... without knowing if or what the end game really is.  We hear people saying we should storm Washington with pitch forks, but if we did that we would get there, look at eachother and say "now what"?  Because at the end of the day, nobody knows what the hell is truely going on.

Sorry for the rambling, but I am so confused I don't know what/who to believe anymore.  As my grandfather used to always tell me, "nothing is ever as it seems"  and in this case boy is he right.

So, in your opinion, what is the end game here?

 

 

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Re: What's The End Game?

 

 

I think that you give the TPTB too much credit if you think that this mess was some sort of orchestrated grand plan. I am convinced that the central bankers thought that they could milk this cash cow forever. The just did not see far enough into the future to see that it must crash.

 

It is sort of like those that thought up Social Security. I am sure they thought that it was always going to be viable when they devised it. It did not work out that way because they did not look more than a few years (or decades) ahead. 

 

I have learned a lot from the CC and the contributions of those that frequent this forum. Greed by most, incompetence by many, and unenlightened self interest all  fueled by fiat money is my take on how we got here. At this point those in power are doing everything they can to stave off the inevitable. They may be able to delay the eventual collapse but it will come nevertheless.  I just wish I knew how this collapse was going to look.

 

Ken

 

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Re: What's The End Game?

Dear castlewp,

I am exactly where you are, I tried for a long time to believe that this was all about incompetent people in high office, and I am sure a few are, but this to me, is so much more than that.  Were it not so, occassionally they would accidently get something right, and that just hasn't happened.  When 80% of the people are screaming for them to turn down the bailouts, and they don't hear us, there is a real problem there, when every other day, there is a new piece of legislation to somehow take or restrict our guns, there is a problem there, when the news media only reports one side of the news without questions, that is a problem, there is now proposed legislation in the house to make it a major offense with possible fine of 1 million dollars for not using genetically engineered seeds, as seen on another forum topic here.  If that were to pass, it would effectively stop us all from even growing the food we will need to survive.  If you add that to the looting that has taken us to the brink of total economic collapse, the manipulation of precious metals prices, the refusal for a competing currency, I don't see how anyone could construe this as an accident.  NO,  there has to be an intelligent plan behind this, probably starting even before the Federal Reserve was formed in1913, but for sure moving at a faster pace since then, as our money continues to be diluted.  The real shame here, is that the American public has become so passive and dumbed down, that they absolutely refuse to question anything, chosing instead to take sides as Democrats or Republicans, instead of Americans, and rant about how corrupt the other side is and place blame there.  This smoke screen is allowing the PTB to keep this going on and on, and the public just never sees the real problem.  My gut feeling is, that the PTB have not yet got us where they want us, and need a bit more time until they are ready, then we will all find out what the end game was, but then it will very late to change it.  As bad as it sounds, I am beginning to feel that the only hope we have, is for this whole scenario to crash very soon, before they can dot the I's and cross the T's, awaken people abruptly to where we actually are and that we are not going to be normal again.  What happens after that, I don't know, it sure wouldn't be good, but maybe we could all start working for a common goal instead of whinnin. Without a major effort to stop this, whatever it is, I am pretty sure we are screwed.

starbucks2

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Re: What's The End Game?

michael hudson an economist i respect as much as anyone believes the end game is NEO FUEDALISM.

i agree.

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Re: What's The End Game?

I had to look it up, but yes this is what seems to be happening at an alarming rate.  Thanks Joe2Baba 

Neofeudalism literally means "new feudalism" and implies a contemporary rebirth of policies of governance and economy reminiscent of those present in many pre-industrial feudal societies. The concept is one in which government policies are instituted with the effect (deliberate or otherwise) of systematically increasing the wealth gap between the rich and the poor while increasing the power of the rich and decreasing the power of the poor (also see wealth condensation). This effect is considered to be similar to the effects of traditional feudalism. The definition of the term is disputed and can be loosely employed as a pejorative term to attack political opponents.

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Re: What's The End Game?
kenc wrote:

 

 

I think that you give the TPTB too much credit if you think that this mess was some sort of orchestrated grand plan. I am convinced that the central bankers thought that they could milk this cash cow forever. The just did not see far enough into the future to see that it must crash.

 

It is sort of like those that thought up Social Security. I am sure they thought that it was always going to be viable when they devised it. It did not work out that way because they did not look more than a few years (or decades) ahead. 

 

I have learned a lot from the CC and the contributions of those that frequent this forum. Greed by most, incompetence by many, and unenlightened self interest all  fueled by fiat money is my take on how we got here. At this point those in power are doing everything they can to stave off the inevitable. They may be able to delay the eventual collapse but it will come nevertheless.  I just wish I knew how this collapse was going to look.

 

Ken

 

That is a possibility.

But it seems like you're "all in" on a massive bet that this is due to just greed and incompetence. Even though millenia of history contradicts the probabilities. I prefer hedging my bets, entertaining all but the most absurd possibilities, and assign probabilities to them. I post this because your comment reminds me of days past, when I would make up my mind (usually the most favorable or least frightening explanation) and then go dig up facts to support my conclusion.At that point there was very little that could "convince me" otherwise and I'd become argumentative as hell, defending the most absurd horse hockey explanations to keep my thesis alive. 

It's comforting. But I got burned by that mode of reasoning. Not going to let myself get burned again. Now I want to know the truth. No matter how much it sucks. And no matter how whacked and insane the sheep might think I am. 

Sanity is conformity to social norms. Sometimes sanity is truth. Sometimes not. 

 

 

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Re: What's The End Game?

I don't discount what others have posted to this thread because I believe the threat is very real.  But, I wanted to offer an optimistic "end game" because I think it is very possible.

Our nation holds the power to fire the private Federal Reserve Bank any time we want.  After that, we repay our debt with them for free - I think it is around $5 trillion dollars right now.  Money we create for free, that only exists as a keyboard entry and is instantly extinguished along with the debt. Not a bad first step, eliminate almost 40% of our national debt and save around $200 billion a year on interest.

The Federal Reserve would need investigated and the RICO statutes were legislated for large scale racketeering operations - this would allow us to seize their assets pending the outcome of the investigation.  They have what may be the largest gold holdings in the world deep under the streets of New York City - very easy to lock down.

China would be paid back in the same way - with money we create rather than borrow.  I think it is around $2 trillion dollars, maybe someone can correct me (yes this could be inflationary - best done during current deflationary period).

The government, through the treasury, could provide money to the banks - just like the Fed.  The combination of greatly reduced interest charges on our national debt and the new revenue found by being our own bank would allow us to eliminate the Federal Income tax with money to spare - talk about stimulus!

All derivatives would be frozen until we are able to analyse the best final course, which may be as simple as dissolving all claims.  End the patriot act and FISA - bring back the Constitution!  Amend the Constitution to mandate a balanced budget unless Congress declares war.  Pass legislation that stipulates that the social security trust money may never be borrowed from again.  Stop reporting our balance sheet on the cash flow basis and implement the accrual basis so that we might be able to properly budget future liabilities.

These steps would absolutely crush the criminal central banking scheme - no nation could compete with the US unless they dumped their banking parasites.  Forget the new world order which is more accurately described as the consolidation of central banks - they will be too broke to meddle in our future affairs and hopefully after the criminal investigation many will be safely placed at Gitmo.  The plan may need some tweaking, but I think you get my point.

Larry

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Re: What's The End Game?
castlewp wrote:

I had to look it up, but yes this is what seems to be happening at an alarming rate.  Thanks Joe2Baba 

Neofeudalism literally means "new feudalism" and implies a contemporary rebirth of policies of governance and economy reminiscent of those present in many pre-industrial feudal societies. The concept is one in which government policies are instituted with the effect (deliberate or otherwise) of systematically increasing the wealth gap between the rich and the poor while increasing the power of the rich and decreasing the power of the poor (also see wealth condensation). This effect is considered to be similar to the effects of traditional feudalism. The definition of the term is disputed and can be loosely employed as a pejorative term to attack political opponents.

Have we ever had anything different?  We all haven't risen with the tide that we were promised.  We've been sold a lie and trapped by debt and consumerism; and I can only see the accumulation of wealth in the hands of the few ( and it happening more quickly with the bailouts) and the spread of poverty, in the UK I am aware or now of lots of people that are in difficult postions.  It also goes for people I know in the Netherlands, Belgium and Germany

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Re: What's The End Game?

DrKrby.

The only possible way to revoke the authority of the Federal Reserve, and this is mere opinion, would be a massive populist uprising in demand of it. Now, consider the patterns of behavior by our Congress and White House the past 40 years, and particularly the last 8 years plus 3 months. 

Do you REALLY think that they would ever do that? The same crowd that, despite 300:1 opposition to TARP/EESA voted overwhelmingly for it anyways? The same group that siphons off our cell phone conversations, our email, the IP's of where we surf, and then denies doing it until the evidence is so overwhelming that the sheep have no "out", no plausible fantasy explanation to let them sleep well at night after a kick-ass episode of Lost? These "leaders" are the same people that offer up bunk like "we can't discuss these no-bd contracts regarding baby formula for Head Start because we're afraid that terrorists might poison the supply. Therefore, the discussions are classified under National Security"? 

No. I wish I could be so optimistic. You have a public uprising demanding the dissolution of the Federal Reserve, and the media a.) discounts the size of the crowd from 1,000,000 to 15,000, IF they report it at all, AND, b.) using their sick twisted methods, convince the sheep that the crowd is made up of anarchists, white supremicists, militia nutcases and other homegrown terrorists, c.)  Then 60 minutes runs a story of "Why Jesus took his sandals off before entering the Federal Reserve of NY", complete with touching stories of how desperate working class folks, single mothers whose sons have cancer, had their lives touched so lovingly by the Fed. 

Won't happen. And if the demonization doesn't work, that pesky Posse Commitatus has been pretty much trashed so out comes the "National Emergency" card and battalions with VERY scary armaments. 

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Re: What's The End Game?
DrKrbyLuv wrote:

I don't discount what others have posted to this thread because I believe the threat is very real.  But, I wanted to offer an optimistic "end game" because I think it is very possible.

Our nation holds the power to fire the private Federal Reserve Bank any time we want.  After that, we repay our debt with them for free - I think it is around $5 trillion dollars right now.  Money we create for free, that only exists as a keyboard entry and is instantly extinguished along with the debt. Not a bad first step, eliminate almost 40% of our national debt and save around $200 billion a year on interest.

The Federal Reserve would need investigated and the RICO statutes were legislated for large scale racketeering operations - this would allow us to seize their assets pending the outcome of the investigation.  They have what may be the largest gold holdings in the world deep under the streets of New York City - very easy to lock down.

China would be paid back in the same way - with money we create rather than borrow.  I think it is around $2 trillion dollars, maybe someone can correct me (yes this could be inflationary - best done during current deflationary period).

The government, through the treasury, could provide money to the banks - just like the Fed.  The combination of greatly reduced interest charges on our national debt and the new revenue found by being our own bank would allow us to eliminate the Federal Income tax with money to spare - talk about stimulus!

All derivatives would be frozen until we are able to analyse the best final course, which may be as simple as dissolving all claims.  End the patriot act and FISA - bring back the Constitution!  Amend the Constitution to mandate a balanced budget unless Congress declares war.  Pass legislation that stipulates that the social security trust money may never be borrowed from again.  Stop reporting our balance sheet on the cash flow basis and implement the accrual basis so that we might be able to properly budget future liabilities.

These steps would absolutely crush the criminal central banking scheme - no nation could compete with the US unless they dumped their banking parasites.  Forget the new world order which is more accurately described as the consolidation of central banks - they will be too broke to meddle in our future affairs and hopefully after the criminal investigation many will be safely placed at Gitmo.  The plan may need some tweaking, but I think you get my point.

Larry

Hi Larry,

Why hasn't this ever been done?  I keep seeing Woodrow Wilson's words and his regret over the creation of the Fed......  I'm not from the US but given the consequences for the whole world if the dollar heads south, I can't help but wonder why the Fed still exists

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Re: What's The End Game?
DrKrbyLuv wrote:

I don't discount what others have posted to this thread because I believe the threat is very real.  But, I wanted to offer an optimistic "end game" because I think it is very possible.

Our nation holds the power to fire the private Federal Reserve Bank any time we want.  After that, we repay our debt with them for free - I think it is around $5 trillion dollars right now.  Money we create for free, that only exists as a keyboard entry and is instantly extinguished along with the debt. Not a bad first step, eliminate almost 40% of our national debt and save around $200 billion a year on interest.

The Federal Reserve would need investigated and the RICO statutes were legislated for large scale racketeering operations - this would allow us to seize their assets pending the outcome of the investigation.  They have what may be the largest gold holdings in the world deep under the streets of New York City - very easy to lock down.

China would be paid back in the same way - with money we create rather than borrow.  I think it is around $2 trillion dollars, maybe someone can correct me (yes this could be inflationary - best done during current deflationary period).

The government, through the treasury, could provide money to the banks - just like the Fed.  The combination of greatly reduced interest charges on our national debt and the new revenue found by being our own bank would allow us to eliminate the Federal Income tax with money to spare - talk about stimulus!

All derivatives would be frozen until we are able to analyse the best final course, which may be as simple as dissolving all claims.  End the patriot act and FISA - bring back the Constitution!  Amend the Constitution to mandate a balanced budget unless Congress declares war.  Pass legislation that stipulates that the social security trust money may never be borrowed from again.  Stop reporting our balance sheet on the cash flow basis and implement the accrual basis so that we might be able to properly budget future liabilities.

These steps would absolutely crush the criminal central banking scheme - no nation could compete with the US unless they dumped their banking parasites.  Forget the new world order which is more accurately described as the consolidation of central banks - they will be too broke to meddle in our future affairs and hopefully after the criminal investigation many will be safely placed at Gitmo.  The plan may need some tweaking, but I think you get my point.

Larry

Thanks Larry, I agree that this would crush the criminal banking system, but as Pete states, how in the world do we truly go about taking steps to accomplish what you have written here?   Protests don't work, our representatives won't listen.  What do we do?  I think that is the most important question that needs to be answered.

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Re: What's The End Game?
castlewp wrote:

After being on this site for over 6 months now and having learned so much from all the contributions of Chris and all the members, I have one question.... What is the end game?

On one hand it seems that this historic collapse of our country/world is just mere incompetency, unintelligence, irresponsibility, greed, etc.. by our representatives in our government and on Wall St. that it has finally caught up with them and us.

Hi Castlewp,

Important question, good opening.

I would reflect that the attributes of incompetence, unintelligence, and irresponsibility when it comes to the functioning of our Government and Wall St. (current big-business model) are the results or products of greed and (to add my own unsavory characteristic) Greek myth/Shakespearian levels of arrogance.

When I was a mere early teen I noticed the overwhelming correlation between frat boy culture and Government/Wall St. culture. The fact that a frat boy is more likely to become a US senator than a math or economics wizard is fairly obvious. As we should all know by now, politicians are essentially salesman. They’re the pitchmen with professionally whitened teeth who sell the (at face value) unpopular and untenable ideas of corporations to the masses. They’re the go-between, the ambassador to the people of the corporations.

Politicians are actually the representatives of modern American and globalized business.

Castlewp wrote:

"On the other hand it seems (and I'm leaning towards this camp) that this has been orchestrated consciously by TPTB from the beginning.  The reason I say that is because of the continuous deception our government bestows on us.  The lies we hear day-in/day-out is just remarkable.  What are they trying to do?  Why does it seem that we are being cheated on so blatently that they arrogantly rub it in our faces with a shit eaten grin."

Your first sentence here sounds unbelievable but then your following points and queries render any honest and intelligent objections more or less silent. The only caveat I might add is that maybe you should eliminate "from the beginning." Or that maybe at some time, on balance, most of TPTB were more or less honest individuals who truly had some notion of "serving the people," but over time were just overwhelmed by a corrupt system whose siren song is irresistible to even the most stalwart of principles. You know...when in Rome.

But clearly now the system is 99.9% corrupt and dysfunctional, except of course when it comes to serving its own needs. In that sense it is fully functional.

However, as you imply, the lies are so great, so grand, so clearly orchestrated at every level of government it is almost impossible to believe that the wholesale deception and manipulation of the American public at their own expense and to the great benefit of TPTB (government/Wall St.) is not – at least at this point in time – being carried out consciously.

And perhaps there’s good reason.

If we take any of this Three E’s stuff even half-seriously then there’s going to be serious systemic changes hitting our entire infrastructural system with greater force each passing year. In fact, we’re already being hit by it. We’re in the first stages right now. So maybe the people with all the money and all the power are simply saying, "Well, if the ship’s going down, my family, friends, and I are going to survive and even thrive while the masses suffer." Makes sense to me from a biological standpoint, even if that means widespread suffering and even widespread death within the ranks of the common folk.

Castlewp wrote:

"We hear people saying we should storm Washington with pitch forks, but if we did that we would get there, look at eachother and say "now what"?"

Not only would we not know what to do when we got there, if anything like this ever happened – armed and belligerent groups threatening the government -- people would be killed en masse in the blink of an eye. The propaganda machine would then whir into overdrive using their favorite conduit – the MSM – to portray the situation just as they cared. The protestors would be "fringe" or "terrorists" or "anti-American" – the post-9-11 lexicon is rich in terms of derision for those who even bat an eyeball at power. Thanks, Dick and George!

Castlewp wrote: 

"So, in your opinion, what is the end game here?"

There is no "end game" because there is no end. Even the ceaseless speculation of TSHTF – the whens, wheres, and hows – is essentially misguided.

It’s not as if one event is going to happen that will represent TSHTF. That’s why it’s a poor metaphor. This unfolding is a process not a moment. It’s a verb not a noun.

But what’s going to happen in America and throughout much of the world is going to be a continuation of what’s already been happening over the last quarter-century or so, only at increased rates of acceleration. Things accelerated following 9-11, and they’ve accelerated again over the last eighteen months. Now this is not to say that the unfolding will not be occasionally punctuated by events that are more significant than others, but just that TSHTF is happening every single day in countless little ways. So don’t be tricked by the charade and deception of "breaking news" or the big event.

So what is happening then and what’s going to happen? I see the major trends of the last quarter-century to be:

1. Declining/stagnant wages for the vast majority of citizens. Going hand in hand with this is the incredible discrepancy in wealth distribution.

2. Declining value of the US dollar/inflation.

3. Slow loss of civil liberties and things considered "rights" along with the rise of a more authoritarian, unaccountable, and intrusive police state apparatus.

4. The increased criminalization of previously legal activities.

5. The increased bureaucratization of every imaginable institution or business, which renders them both monolithic and utterly unaccountable to private citizens.

6. The increased militarization of domestic law enforcement.

7. The increased marginzalization and demonizing of political dissent and organization. Essentially if you are a concerned citizen then you’re one act away from going to jail.

8. The continuing decline and obsolescence of the entire infrastructure that enables our modern way of life, from bridges and roads, to gas stations and fire departments, to hospitals and their myriad equipment, and most importantly, to the vast networks that are our electrical grid, sewage and sanitation systems, and gas and oil pipelines (in this last case, both industrial and city/state municipal systems).

9. The continuing inaccessability of quality health care to people of average/median/modest means.

For me this all adds up to the third-worldization of the US with significant events determining the speed function of the process. So basically I see a irreversible slide in all the economic numbers and stats (no matter how enthusiastically fudged they may be), increased unemployment, increased homelessness, increased domestic unrest, crumbling infrastructure, increased lawlessness with entire cities and regions essentially becoming unpatrolled by whatever kind of law enforcement exists at the time (largely because they must continue to retrench to protect their dwindling piece of the pie).

And this isn’t even factoring in the likely blow of energy scarcity.

Now the above decline is not some kind of hell on earth, Children of Men world (yet), only one that is more chaotic, more violent, more lawless than the one in which we now reside. But it is not total chaos, violence, and lawlessness.

 

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Re: What's The End Game?

Pete - I don't know that I'd wager that the Fed will be eliminated but I really do think it's possible if, as you said, there would need to be "a massive populist uprising in demand of it."  I think it was Victor Hugo who said that "there is nothing more powerful than an idea who's time has come" or something like that.

Precious few politicians would have the courage to pursue it unless they have the cover of a national mandate.  If we could effectively get the message out to the people, I think it would quickly go viral.  I would also suspect there would be some blow-back from angry people who will rightfully ask - hey, what have you politicians been doing to us!

britinbe - it is incredible that such an obvious scam has been perpetrated for so many years - a testament to the power of corruption and bribes. Last week, Max Keiser (BBC) was on Sebastian in the Morning here in the US (Connecticut) during the interview Max said the US should get rid of the Federal Reserve and that they are the culprits - then within a day he was suspended by the BBC - I think for saying that on US radio. Parts 2 and 3 of the interview are very good.  I guess that's why we seldom hear these things in the US.

Larry

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Re: What's The End Game?

Great post Maincooncat, thanks!

So, do you see any way of stopping this?  Or, is all of this just an exercise in futility and we go along with what happens.  The reason I ask is that, I, like everyone else here don't like what is happening and feel helpless to the very potential outcome you have so eloquently stated.  I want to take action, but am not sure what to do that would indeed change anything. 

So for everyone out there, What Do We Do?  And I'm not talking about planting gardens, storing food, buying guns, forming communities.  While all well and good, I don't see this as being the solution.  Again, what do we do to stop this insanity?

Bill

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Re: What's The End Game?

Bill - the best way to stop the insanity is to end the fed, pure and simple.  Anything else is BS.

Larry

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Re: What's The End Game?
castlewp wrote:

Again, what do we do to stop this insanity?

Bill

 

IMO, the die's been cast.  I'm all about surviving and shaping what comes after.

VIVA -- Sager 

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Re: What's The End Game?

 

Pete in Florida,

 

Perhaps I did not say what I meant very well.

For me, to believe that there was/is some grand orchestrated plan is to believe that in 1913 the bankers had some glorious plan that would stretch on decades into the future and what is happening now in 2009 was in the plan. Timmy and Ben are just the temporary custodians in charge of implementing the plan today.

 

I find that scenario hard to comprehend. I do believe however that Timmy and Ben are looking out for their friends, family and their own hide. They don't really care what happens to the country or what it will look like in 30 years. This I can believe.

 

Ken

 

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Re: What's The End Game?

Castle,

I don't know if this is an orchestrated event or the inevitable consequence of unbridled power.  By unbridled power, I am referring to the power of government to grow as fast as the printing presses can fund it, and the power of the Fed to control our money.  

In either case, my best prediction is as follows:

1) The PTB will do everything they can to keep the status quo.  More bail-outs, more stimulus, more funny money (whether IMF Special Drawing Rights or dollars or something else); more nationalization of private industry in the name of the "greater good".

2)  None of these efforts will succeed because none of them address the central cause of our current dilemma: we consume more than we produce, and the consequence of that is that we run a evergrowing national debt.  They will instead only add to the debt and exacerbate the problem.

3)  The national debt will grow until we get to "D-Day", which is the day when we'll have to print money just to pay the interest on the debt.  This will be the day (or days, or weeks) that brings us to the Tipping Point.  By that, I mean Americans will finally wake up to what is happening because the dollar will have collapsed, purchasing power decimated, pension funds, social security, corporate pensions, municipal pensions, medicare, medicaid, wiped out, most government offices and services closed, and taxes will have already been increased to prohibitive levels.  .  

After the Tipping Point, then we can hope for real change.  Before that, it will just be more excruciating pain for people like those on this site to watch.  It's like watching an accident happen:  you know what is going to happen, you know there will be many people hurt, you wish you could stop it, but the people hurtling towards the precipice don't even know it's there they're moving too fast to hear you.  

If this is by-design, they have screwed up in a major way.  There is no way Americans, after steps 1, 2 and 3 have happened, are going to put up with this.  States will secede, state currencies will be created, and the Federal goverment will cease to exist, at least for a while.  I don't see blood in the streets and I don't see other countries going to war with us to collect on our debt because they will be broke too.  Except for China, which I am not worried about because they have 700 million people living in poverty to worry about and besides, they've never had imperialist ambitions.

I once believe there was a chance that this would not happen.  It could possibly have been avoided if real leadership in DC cut spending drastically - draconianly to put it aptly.  That hope vanished with the first bail-out and the nail went into the coffin on the second one. 

That's my 2 cents.

 

 

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Re: What's The End Game?

Your solution Larry looks glorious, but I don't see it in the cards of possibility, so I don't have it on my list of potential endgames. Any leader who tried to do that would be assassinated.  So it would have to be a large grassroots movement, and I have no faith in the american masses anymore.  They've let this go on for 100 years--allowing the banking oligarchs to get a foothold here, giving in to the military industrial complex, letting a vicious federal govt and Wall St machine strip the states and towns of all power, submitting like sheep to a confiscatory tax regime to pay the bankers, submitting like sheep to "terrorism" entertainment on TV to support the largest standing army in the history of the world which now has an extremely well-integrated combatant command with command authority over the US in the event of "emergency"--precisely what the founders said was one of the biggest threats to a people...

http://www.northcom.mil/About/index.html

In the interest of making us safe, they won't even know it but they'll simply be enforcing the neofeudal structure that's coming.

Ken, I think you're not giving TPTB enough credit...you don't just stumble back to feudalism by incompetence...competent people would have been able to step to the plate occasionally to fix things.  But that hasn't happened...over the course of a century of elections we keep heading down the same path regardless of who is in office.  Why?  How do we have systematic incompetence?  How has that reality been created?  It's happened over generations.  How is it that the 2 previous presidents had ex-CEOs of Goldman Sachs running Treasury?  They were literally plucked out of the job at Goldman and immediate put in office...no separation time between running the most powerful investment bank in the world (full of the richest operators, owned by the richest bankers, serving the richest clients) and running our Treasury.  Are those guys incompetent?  Sure they screwed us, but boy they helped their clique and pushed us further down the path to feudalism.  There is an intent behind what happens, not just the incompetence we see from politicians on TV. Congress is not TPTB anyway (a few of them are like Jay Rockefeller, Jane Harman, Feinstein, Kerry...all the super rich ones), so the legislators who create something like social security really have little to do with TPTB.  It's the hidden aristocracy behind them who pull their strings that are TPTB.

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jerrydon10
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Re: What's The End Game?
castlewp wrote:

So for everyone out there, What Do We Do?  And I'm not talking about planting gardens, storing food, buying guns, forming communities.  While all well and good, I don't see this as being the solution.  Again, what do we do to stop this insanity?

Bill

There is nothing we CAN do aside from what you state you don't want to do.

Someone mentioned Hegelian dialectics in another thread and that is what has happened to us. Hegelian dialectics is a form of logic used by leaders to move the masses to a certain goal (Marxism partially works on this thought system).

Under this thought system two factions merge their ideas into a new synthesis. For example, if the leaders are leftists and the bulk of the populace leans to the right, everybody compromises and the government moves to the center. The populace gets used to the shift, then next election they compromise again and the government moves a little more to the left until the leaders have fulfilled their goal.

This has happened and the globalists now have us. There are more of them in power than there are of us and it doesn't matter which party you affiliate with, they are all globalists.

You will not be of any importance to the PTB as an individual anymore. You are simply a member of the collective group with a number so that they can keep up with you as keeping up with the individual is of paramount importance to the well being of a socialistic, global government.

The latter tenet brings us a police state, so the days of freedom are over IMHO. Heck, we are already there. I can't drive to the grocery store anymore without a cop looking me over. I can't board an airplane without a cop frisking me. I can't walk into my court house without a police and metal scan inspection.

We won't change the system as it is now well entrenched.

There is no political out to our problems. The only thing we can do is to isolate ourselves from them.

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Gadfly
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Posts: 127
Re: What's The End Game?

What is the end game?  That's a loaded question because it presupposes that there is a conspiracy to this crisis.  The answer to your question is "there is no end game" because there is no human intelligence behind the curtain pulling the strings.  The problems the world is experiencing, if you want  to speak in general terms, is caused by avarice and ambition.  There are your conspirators, 2 abstract concepts; greed and power lust.  End of story! (get it)

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strabes
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Posts: 1032
Re: What's The End Game?

Wow, in the process of writing my previous post, there's like 10 new posts!  So I'm a bit behind.  

Pete, love your post...because mine basically says the same thing.  Wink

Mainecooncat, I'm really psyched that you've noticed the correlation between frat-boy BS and the circles of power in Wall St and DC.  I've felt all alone for 20 years on that because there's really no venue to discuss it.  This is like a cathartic moment of healing for me.  Ahhhh....   Laughing   I've wondered all those years how real men/women could take the power back instead of these hollow frat types.  It makes no sense that what CS Lewis called "men with chests" have no way of getting power back. Every once in a while there's a William Wallace who takes on the frat boys and wins, but that's just a short-term blip in a world that's otherwise ruled by the type of people I would never hire myself.  Do you have any thoughts on that?

Patrick, I think you're right unfortunately.  But I think the tipping point and breakdown will come later than you may be thinking.  I don't think states will be able to secede given the power of the military and the new homeland infrastructure. Moreover, the states don't have competent armies or Robert E Lee's anymore and they are way more infiltrated today by federal agents, banking interests, corporate interests, etc than they were in the civil war days and their legislatures have too many frat-boys in them to really stand against a threat of force.  States are nothing but administrative districts for the federal empire today.  So I agree that there won't be blood in the streets because nobody will have the guts to really stand up and fight the feds this time around.  

Breakdown would've happened already had all these bailouts not happened.  That would've been a breakdown the feds couldn't have kept control of.  But now that 350,000,000 sheep have agreed to sit back and let the feds steal all their money and give it to rich people, this is giving the system time to prepare itself to be able to maintain control, rehearse, and put their endgame plans into effect, whatever they may be.  I'm afraid it won't be pretty. 

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Farmer Brown
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Re: What's The End Game?

 Strabes,

I think you're mis-using the term "frat-boy".  I know you are using it to refer to the well-connected, possibly Ivy League, usually from Connecticutt crowd with last names like DuPont, Rockefeller, Carnegie, etc, but while doing so you are disparaging millions of other "frat" boys that have nothing to do with such interest such as myself. 

Oh, and we prefer the term "fraternity", not "frat". My fraternity was full of engineering nerds (it was an engineering school after all, but we were the nerdiest of the bunch).  I still keep in touch with most of them, my closest friends are amongst them, and I can assure you none of them work for the IMF, the UN, the Fed, not one bankster among them, none of them are in congress or the senate or any state legislature.  One, a network-architect, did work for JP Morgan and currently works for a hedge fund (as a network architect).  He makes boatloads of money and I hope he keeps doing so while the getting is good. 

Most are aghast at the current state of affairs.  Some are living in Obamamanialand.  I think any who watched the CC would be instant fans of the site due to its logical format, and the few that have are.

So, please don't pile us into the "frat-boy" pool of your imagination.  I really don't care if I'm "disparaged", it's just that it's not accurate.

Other than that, I usually agree with you 95% of the time!

Cheers,

Patrick

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strabes
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
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Posts: 1032
Re: What's The End Game?

I apologize Patrick.  I didn't mean to say anyone who has ever been in a fraternity is a problem.  I meant what I probably wrongly assumed was a common use of the word "frat-boy" to define slimy, sales-y, self-interested behavior of certain groups that like their exclusive position to be in the club at the expense of others.  They aren't inspired by morals, ideas, ideals, philosophies, or anything else transcendent...they're only motivated by self-interest.  It's a low form of life.

Perhaps Mainecooncat could describe it better than me?  Whatever it is, that culture is what I'm trying to identify.

It's like the movie Legends of the Fall when the older brother runs for politics and gets in with moneyed interests against the culture of the commoner.  His dad considered him a turncoat.  Those types of "boys" network with each other to make money and then hide behind men with guns (military, police) who protect them from the commoners who know they're getting screwed by slick salesmen.  That's what's happening now at the global/federal level.  It's what Wall St is.  That behavior is trained in the elite fraternities at elite schools.

But I'm also referring a general lack of seriousness about life that happens in other colleges which SOME fraternities contribute to...hedonism/nihilism is the ultimate purpose...that worldview doesn't work if we would've wanted to maintain our responsible republic in the US which is gone now.  Life is about sucking down a keg.  Sure, it's fun.  I did it.  But compare that to how an incoming freshman at Columbia 200 years ago had to be able to recite all 4 gospels of the bible in greek.  We have been so dumbed-down, and this makes it easier for the elite to pulloff the crap that we're all victim of today.  Inspiring ideals and longstanding philosophies have been crushed by the slick salesmanship which rules our world.  

 

Damnthematrix's picture
Damnthematrix
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 10 2008
Posts: 3998
Re: What's The End Game?

"
So, in your opinion, what is the end game here?"

A hockey stick. 

Reuben Bailey's picture
Reuben Bailey
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 17 2008
Posts: 138
Re: What's The End Game?

DTM,

Just one?

Damnthematrix's picture
Damnthematrix
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 10 2008
Posts: 3998
Re: What's The End Game?

starbucks2, they're all momos, to quote Davos!  Just WHAT do you think they all plan to get out of the total collapse of their system?

To start with, there's a VERY BIG difference between now and the dark ages of feudalism.  WE outnumber THEM maybe 100,000 to 1.  Globally, that's probably a million to one.  In the dark ages, the elites were outnumbered hundreds maybe a thousand to one.  Back then, the serfs were TOTALLY uneducated, unable to read anything.  So what the monarchs of ancient times could get away with back then is nothing like what they can get away with now.  We could EASILY bring them to their knees begging for mercy....

What's happening now is Limits to Growth.  'They' never believed it could/would happen, but there you go, they're momos....  None of this surprises me at all.  Have you read the Club of Rome's "Limite to Growth"? 

Damnthematrix's picture
Damnthematrix
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 10 2008
Posts: 3998
Re: What's The End Game?

Yeah....  Peak Civilisation.

Damnthematrix's picture
Damnthematrix
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 10 2008
Posts: 3998
Re: What's The End Game?

Larry, I totally agree....  except I can't go along with paying a debt that they made up, monopoly money invented out of thin air is NOT a debt.

If we all organised and stopped servicing our debts, they'd come undone in days.  Bloodless revolution. 

Damnthematrix's picture
Damnthematrix
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 10 2008
Posts: 3998
Re: What's The End Game?

Why are replies no longer seen below the post you're replying to?

Farmer Brown's picture
Farmer Brown
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 23 2008
Posts: 1503
Re: What's The End Game?

Strabes,

No problem, I know what you mean.  I just wanted to set the record straight. 

I aso don't think all of this is quite as controlled and designed as you and some others believe.  The CIA can't even keep a secret long enough to microwave a frozen burrito, so I find it very hard to believe that some multinational, money-based, multi-generational brotherhood of bankers could do much better. 

I agree there are those who have a long-term agenda, like the Faustians who openly have committed to global-socialism and count some rather high-ranking public officials among them.  However, to believe there is a global conspiracy behind all this requires much more proof for me to believe.  

I think where we are today financially is more of a product of human nature than human determination.  Human nature always looks for the path of least resistance.  Usually, that means putting off the most painful decisions to the last possible moment.  That means pushing debt forward; financing programs that would be politically and actually painful to end now with future earnings (or devaluations); and in general, smoking 5 packs of cigarettes a day until you get emphysema (or in our financial case, until our children or grandchildren get it).  

You don't need a global, multi-generational conspiracy to pull this stupidity off.  What you need is to enable or allow man to behave at his worst.  That enabling is provided courtesy of our collective ability (via the Fed) to borrow from our own future.  Until we get the kind of leadership that can explain this to the masses and put an end to it, it will not end except by self-extinguishing itself with the reality that our debt-forsaken future holds for us.  

Respectfully,

Fratter Brown ;)

 

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