What the Hay Happened To the Markets Today??????

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What the Hay Happened To the Markets Today??????

Check out these e-mini S&P futures today. 

Wow, BIG BIG BIG buying of futures in the late trading hours, pushing a day, that should have taken out March support, into the green. 

Placed a market order yesterday, 1 pm for SPXU (S&P 3x short ETF). Woke up this morning 8% richer. Glad I got out. Big toe twitching.

Someone, pray tell, tell me how and why this happened? 

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Re: What the Hay Happened To the Markets Today??????

Here is your answer

The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.~ Morpheus

V

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Re: What the Hay Happened To the Markets Today??????

Dead Kitten bounce.

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Re: What the Hay Happened To the Markets Today??????
V wrote:

Here is your answer

The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.~ Morpheus

V

LOL.

This has been going on for some time, i.e since March of last year. Some like to call it the "invisible hand" of the PPT. They can and will crush the Bears.

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Re: What the Hay Happened To the Markets Today??????

Good question Morpheus. I sold some shorts & then added some different ones, then went long SLV. What is going down tomorrow is my question? I would think with this close we would be in for a BIG up swing but who knows???

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Re: What the Hay Happened To the Markets Today??????

A quote from the Matrix and "dead kittens bounce"... interesting answers.  I REALLY don't understand stock trading.Laughing 

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Re: What the Hay Happened To the Markets Today??????

I think the 200-DMA is the big tell. I covered half my shorts at 1044 (February support), then put them back on at 1039 on the false breakout. Grrr. Covered partially at a loss on the way up but held most of the position expecting (at most) a retest of the 200DMA then lower.

A breakout above the 200 line would tell me we're probably headed back up for a retest of the 1200 level, but I don't think it's going to happen. We'll see. For how I'm keeping my slightly pared down position. I expected resistance at 1088 and we seem to have found it at 1085 (1076 as I type). I'll cover more on a breakout above 1088 and exit the short completely on a breakout above the 200DMA. Till then I'm holding out for lower.

Erik

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Re: What the Hay Happened To the Markets Today??????

Eric did you see Marc Faber's thoughts here?

& El Erian's video on this page here:http://money.cnn.com/2010/05/25/markets/markets_newyork/index.htm

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Re: What the Hay Happened To the Markets Today??????

Time to rally? I think so, at least for a couple of weeks. Gold is going up and the dollar down.

http://www.financialsense.com/economy/nolte/2010/0524.html

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Re: What the Hay Happened To the Markets Today??????

iDoc,

Thanks for the heads-up. I hadn't seen this piece from Marc. I basically agree with everything he says. I had called this right initially - covered my shorts just above the support at 1044 he mentions in the video. I share his view that what's coming next is probably a significant bounce - maybe to 1200+ before going much lower.

But like an idiot I sold the false breakout below 1039. I got stopped out of half the position but the other half rode all the way up. Just as I expected, the market found resistance just above 1080. I think there's a good chance of a trading range here between 1040 and 1085, so for now I'm going to hold off and hope to cover lower. If the market breaks much above 1088 I'm out. A move above the 200DMA at 1100 or so would be a sure sign (in my opinion anyway) that the market is headed back toward 1200.

Erik

 

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Re: What the Hay Happened To the Markets Today??????

Market opens in 2 minutes. I have triple inverse short ETFs that were kicking butt last afternoon. Now I'm going to get killed on the opening. 

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Re: What the Hay Happened To the Markets Today??????

Note to Pete. Do NOT hold any overnight short positions anymore. This happens too much. Interesting. the second the closing bell rung the markets started a 140 degree reversal. Simply amazing. Went from hellbent bearish to hellbent bullish as soon as the bell rung, and continued that trend for hours. Interesting how often this happens. 

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Re: What the Hay Happened To the Markets Today??????

Yeah, I got stopped out at 1191 and I'm not going to re-enter. I think there might be another down-leg before the next up-leg, not sure. But I'm pretty sure there's an upleg coming. I'll get back into the short when the picture gets clearer.

I think this is the first time in a year I've had ZERO open contracts on the S&P. It'll be interesting to find out again what a good night's sleep is like.

Erik

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Re: What the Hay Happened To the Markets Today??????

I'm not a trader, currently.  And, thanks to this site and this post in particular, I never will be.

I have no idea what the F**k you guys are talking about.  And I'm not complaining about it.  It's an important reality check.

It's instructive, I think, because back in the day (even ten years ago), you didn't seem need all this high tech minute-by-minute data.  You bought and you sold based on a company's fundamentals.  The data you focused on included trends over a period of years, not days or hours, and included some other tidbits like P/E ratio and cash on hand.  Maybe, just maybe, you looked to see what insider trading was going on, but that data wasn't as available then as it is now.  Back then (circa 1995) we bought Apple at $6, but would never have believed it would be over $200.  And my last trade was Ford at less than $2.  Can you believe it?  An American Icon for less than $2?!  Being able to buy a chunk of Ford stock takes you back to the days when Ford and Edison tinkered in their workshops on their Florida estates.Yet, I sold it shortly thereafter when it doubled simply because the market is beyond me now.  I felt lucky to get out, even though I also liked the prospect of being able to afford some "bluechips" (is that word even used anymore?) that were formerly way out of my reach.   Yet, if it weren't for this site and threads like this, I'd probably have too much faith in myself and try to get in and play the market.  I'd get killed.

These days, you need to really understand terms like "triple-net inverses" or some such thing, and have access to enormous amounts of up to the minute (second?) data to truly compete.  And the market has swings of over 2% in a single week!  This minutia and this volatility can't be a good sign and would certainly weed out the likes of me. 

For the most part, I've traded investing for raising chickens (a different kind of investing, I guess).  I see some potential similarities, though.  When the chicks are a few days old, they are fragile.  You can always count on a few not making it.  Right before the sick ones die, they often get very active--jumping around, flapping their little wing buds.   Then they fall over dead.  That's the way I view this market volatility.  Still, I can see how those with their finger on the market's pulse--to the extent it's proxy can truly be felt with data--can make it work for them while it lasts.

I admire you guys who have embraced and mastered  the technology and have the cajones to play those peaks and valleys.   Good luck to you.

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Re: What the Hay Happened To the Markets Today??????

I am happy to see other traders & non traders alike here. It is all just a big game anyway. I don't like the local casinos with all the smoke & many unkept seedy characters. This casino (aka market) is a real challenge. I bought shorts on the market at the close yesterday & sold the longs I was up on. We just do not get moves like 286 points up everyday heading into a long weekend where a lot can come out. This market is so up & dn at the moment so I just look for what it might give & trade that.

If you think about it we can work real hard at this & might win a bunch of money only to find out when we go to cash it in it is just confetti. The people that are playing it safe by just leaving it in their bank or mattress may find out the very same thing. So Davos maybe 100% correct about Gold. Many things to think about LOL.

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Re: What the Hay Happened To the Markets Today??????

WILDJO

I could not agree with you more. I would also add that playing in the casino only serves to further give power to those who would use it against us.

It is a actually supporting the matrix which is determined to commit feudal rape ( thank you Joyce Marcel). It contributes absolutely nothing productive to the economy and actually destabilizes our entire system. It is unbelievable to me that anyone who has watched the CC would even consider engaging in a rigged game like Wall Street. But hey what the hell would I know " I been down so long it looks like up to me"

Good investment tip ..........chickens. I am now going out to invest in sweet potatoes. I am late and almost did not get any.

V

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Re: What the Hay Happened To the Markets Today??????
V wrote:

I would also add that playing in the casino only serves to further give power to those who would use it against us.

It is unbelievable to me that anyone who has watched the CC would even consider engaging in a rigged game like Wall Street.

Really? So if I choose to play at the casino, make some money off of the casino, and then take that money and put it into productive uses, then how am I furthering the power of those who would use it against us? Please explain.

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Re: What the Hay Happened To the Markets Today??????
idoctor wrote:

If you think about it we can work real hard at this & might win a bunch of money only to find out when we go to cash it in it is just confetti. The people that are playing it safe by just leaving it in their bank or mattress may find out the very same thing. So Davos maybe 100% correct about Gold. Many things to think about LOL.

It's not confetti if you turn it into debt free land.

That you then donate to local farmers to use to set up local CSAs.  Those very same farmers then turn around and provide fruit and vegetables for a 24-26 week growing season to folks and neighbors in the local community.

I like trying to calculate ROI on that - but fostering community and building a group of people who can turn to each other when things get bad has infinite value and my calculator keeps returning an Error.

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Re: What the Hay Happened To the Markets Today??????
joemanc wrote:
V wrote:

I would also add that playing in the casino only serves to further give power to those who would use it against us.

It is unbelievable to me that anyone who has watched the CC would even consider engaging in a rigged game like Wall Street.

Really? So if I choose to play at the casino, make some money off of the casino, and then take that money and put it into productive uses, then how am I furthering the power of those who would use it against us? Please explain.

Joe -

See #17 for one example.

Which you would be able to participate in if you left Connecticutt and joined the rest of the Lowesville alumni here in Va Beach.  Cool

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Re: What the Hay Happened To the Markets Today??????

This isn't my debate and I am severely under-qualified to enter heavily into the debate;  however, that is almost the point.  The "market" once upon a time actually had fundamentals which genuinely reflected the state of a particular business, industry or the economy as a whole.  Now it is a casino and it is seriously rigged and it is no longer open to average Americans.  Now it is really only a "good idea" for people with a great deal of very specific arcane knowledge and incredible amounts of time to pursue it,as well as technological access denied to most.

Since most of the last 30 years we have been sold on the idea that privatization and investing in the market was the only way to make a profit it is, hmm what is the right word,  upsetting perhaps, to be sold on something and then essentially denied access to it.  

Those who continue to engage in it at a high level sustain it.  And they sustain the inability of the "rest of us" to join in the profit while the methods of making a living and securing our futures are being taken from us systematically.  

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Re: What the Hay Happened To the Markets Today??????

Joe 

As I stated on another thread I have no time to engage you in a pointless exchange.

I can only suggest re- watching the crash course for some clues. Reading and watching all of Damon Vrabels posts as he explains it in great detail.

A visit to the Gam - Anon site might prove useful as well. After all investing is just gambling in three piece suits. I have found a very great deal of symmetry between video poker and stock trading via computer.

I hope you make lots of FRN'S so you can do something productive with them.

V

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Re: What the Hay Happened To the Markets Today??????
V wrote:

Joe 

As I stated on another thread I have no time to engage you in a pointless exchange.

I can only suggest re- watching the crash course for some clues. Reading and watching all of Damon Vrabels posts as he explains it in great detail.

A visit to the Gam - Anon site might prove useful as well. After all investing is just gambling in three piece suits. I have found a very great deal of symmetry between video poker and stock trading via computer.

I hope you make lots of FRN'S so you can do something productive with them.

V

I find these comments to be superficial in their depth and to be quite honest, insulting. 

For years I bought into the 401K lie. Now I have an enormous amount of savings trapped in it. Should I walk away? 

Second. The markets, when functional, require a significant amount of analytical capacity to operate in. Each small-time actor plays an important role in price discovery and regulation of proper valuation. To chock this up as "gambling" demonstrates to me a lack of understanding in what role traders play. The comment reminds me of one recently in another site where the person stated that short-sellers are wicked and greedy. On it's face it sounds plausible (that's called sophistry for the 3 dollar SAT word of the day), but when probed is revealed to be sentimental nonsense. 

Sort of like calling market participation "gambling". 

Each and every day the value of my labor, stored in FRN's, is taken from me. I'm not going to sit on my duff and do nothing about it. If I make 5% per year, then I am merely preserving my labor. 

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Re: What the Hay Happened To the Markets Today??????
Morpheus wrote:

Each and every day the value of my labor, stored in FRN's, is taken from me. I'm not going to sit on my duff and do nothing about it. If I make 5% per year, then I am merely preserving my labor. 

+1 and Amen.

The markets always appear rigged to those who don't understand how they work. The last time that a fundamental value-investing approach worked was in the 1940-50s, after the great depression. At some point in this new decade, I imagine value investing will work very well again, but we are not quite there yet.

V,

Your criticism of those of us who are simply trying to preserve the purchasing power that we accumulated over our lifetimes is grossly misguided. You overlook the fact that nearly everyone of the "traders" on this site have taken personal action towards a more self-reliant way of life. But nobody can be 100% self-reliant, and therefore we are required to play the game to ensure the survival of our families. 

You obviously have knowledge and skills unique to your own personal experience that could benefit the community. What about starting a thread on carpentry projects? I need to know how to tie an overhead trellis into my shingled roof without creating leaks in the process. Can you help me? What about building an A-frame structure to support rain water barrels? 

 

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The Dumb Money Is Getting Bearish: Smart Money Neutral

Could be a sign of a significant rally in our future, one in which the bears will no doubt be screaming "manipulation and PPT" all the way up.

If the markets do rally now, it should set up a pretty good bull-trap in the fall.

 

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Re: What the Hay Happened To the Markets Today??????

If the best , brightest most well informed and aware citizens of this planet ( the CM community) continue to engage in and support a system of neo feudalism we are doomed. Because you have bought into one lie buying into the greater lie in hopes of extricating oneself seems somewhat seems a self perpetuation of a lie. But hey what the hell do I know. 

As far as telling you how to do carpentry I am available to travel for work. I accept payment in gold bullion, silver bullion and junk silver. I work by the hour as you either trust me or you don't

V

ps Thanks for the vocabulary lesson. I don't think it is a three dollar word but I have not kept up with inflation........I lean towards the deflationist camp for the time being, I also do not think it applies.

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Re: What the Hay Happened To the Markets Today??????

V said:

 

If the best , brightest most well informed and aware citizens of this planet ( the CM community) continue to engage in and support a system of neo feudalism we are doomed. Because you have bought into one lie buying into the greater lie in hopes of extricating oneself seems somewhat seems a self perpetuation of a lie. But hey what the hell do I know.

Well said. When does one extricate himself from a corrupt sytem rather than continually relying on that system for support. When do you cut the ties? It seems to me that as long as you participate and play the game, you continue its existence. No amount of rational can explain that away. I don't know how anybody could to this day continue to invest in this system and at the same time say that it must be changed.

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Re: What the Hay Happened To the Markets Today??????
xraymike79 wrote:

No amount of rational can explain that away. I don't know how anybody could to this day continue to invest in this system and at the same time say that it must be changed.

Who here is investing in the system. Anybody long the stock market here? We are shorting the market and shorting the system. Besides PMs, I haven't been long on a single stock in a decade. If you want me to take your argument seriously, perhaps you should put your money where your mouth is. Mine is.

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Re: What the Hay Happened To the Markets Today??????
JAG wrote:
xraymike79 wrote:

No amount of rational can explain that away. I don't know how anybody could to this day continue to invest in this system and at the same time say that it must be changed.

Who here is investing in the system. Anybody long the stock market here? We are shorting the market and shorting the system. Besides PMs, I haven't been long on a single stock in a decade. If you want me to take your argument seriously, perhaps you should put your money where your mouth is. Mine is.

...what money? I'm a scraper and junkyard philosopher, a utopian dreamer, a wanna-be anarchist.

 

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Re: What the Hay Happened To the Markets Today??????
xraymike79 wrote:

V said:

 

If the best , brightest most well informed and aware citizens of this planet ( the CM community) continue to engage in and support a system of neo feudalism we are doomed. Because you have bought into one lie buying into the greater lie in hopes of extricating oneself seems somewhat seems a self perpetuation of a lie. But hey what the hell do I know.

Well said. When does one extricate himself from a corrupt sytem rather than continually relying on that system for support. When do you cut the ties? It seems to me that as long as you participate and play the game, you continue its existence. No amount of rational can explain that away. I don't know how anybody could to this day continue to invest in this system and at the same time say that it must be changed.

Though I respect  V and often agree with much of what he says I have a different outlook on this: I want to see them keep this whole rotten system together as long as possible and I realize that how they will accomplish this will be as mean and ugly as ever.  I believe this system of "neo-feudalism" is what is going to allow me to accomplish my goals in safe and orderly way.  You know what I mean: I need my checks coming in, I need my investments to do well, I need my homes to maintain value so that I can buy my land and build my farm.  I need them to keep this whole rotten mess together as long as possible so that I can fully prepare for the hard times headed my way.  We are not going to end the Fed or stop the destruction of our planet or get an alternative to oil on line, we are going to drive this thing right into the ground hard and in my mind we need this very Matrix that we we scorn intact so that we can prepare.

 So, I will continue to pull what money I can out of these crooked markets and put it to good use and I will continue to support whatever measures that will keep this fiat economy on life support long enough for me to accomplishing my goals. In otherwords; now is no time to blink. Nacci.

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Re: What the Hay Happened To the Markets Today??????

We all have to "play the game" the best we know how IMHO. Who knows how & how fast things will happen. I am long what I believe in & can stomach & short things that I see more of a short term problem with & hold half in cash reserves to pounce on something like that 1000 point drop we saw. Some of us just enjoy the game even if we feel it is rigged. This market is not for long term investers IMHO much better suited for day traders that are able to jump out of things with small losses & not dwell on it if things start to go against you.

Everyone has made very good points & thanks for sharing the different ideas. At least we all have enough mind to be here & able to play the game. Many people I deal with do not.

.

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Re: What the Hay Happened To the Markets Today??????
xraymike79 wrote:
JAG wrote:
xraymike79 wrote:

No amount of rational can explain that away. I don't know how anybody could to this day continue to invest in this system and at the same time say that it must be changed.

Who here is investing in the system. Anybody long the stock market here? We are shorting the market and shorting the system. Besides PMs, I haven't been long on a single stock in a decade. If you want me to take your argument seriously, perhaps you should put your money where your mouth is. Mine is.

...what money? I'm a scraper and junkyard philosopher, a utopian dreamer, a wanna-be anarchist.

LOL, excellent reply Xray,

stock market....junk yard....one and the same in the end.

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