Treasury and Labor Put Out Feelers Regarding Stealing Your 401K

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Morpheus's picture
Morpheus
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Treasury and Labor Put Out Feelers Regarding Stealing Your 401K

Davos. Holy cow. That didn't take long, did it!!!!!!!!!!!

 

You did the responsible thing. You saved in your IRA or 401(k) to support your retirement, when you could have spent that money on another vacation, or an upscale car, or fancier clothes and jewelry. But now Washington is developing plans for your retirement savings.

BusinessWeek reports that the Treasury and Labor departments are asking for public comment on "the conversion of 401(k) savings and Individual Retirement Accounts into annuities or other steady payment streams."

In plain English, the idea is for the government to take your retirement savings in return for a promise to pay you some monthly benefit in your retirement years.

They will tell you that you are "investing" your money in U.S. Treasury bonds. But they will use your money immediately to pay for their unprecedented trillion-dollar budget deficits, leaving nothing to back up their political promises, just as they have raided the Social Security trust funds.

This "conversion" may start out as an optional choice, though you are already free to buy Treasury bonds whenever you want. But as Karl Denninger of the Market Ticker Web site reports: "'Choices' have a funny way of turning into mandates, and this looks to me like a raw admission that Treasury knows it will not be able to sell its debt in the open market — so they will effectively tax you by forcing your 'retirement' money to buy them."

 

more....

 

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=521423

Morpheus's picture
Morpheus
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Re: Treasury and Labor Put Out Feelers Regarding Stealing ...

Mods. Please add title per fair use requirements. 

Class Warfare's Next Target: 401(k) Savings 

 

Thank you. 

Davos's picture
Davos
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Re: Treasury and Labor Put Out Feelers Regarding Stealing ...

Land of the free.

Glad I moved into the mountains, Celente said when people have nothing they have nothing to lose and they lose it.

Hate to say the man is right but today's news indicates people are losing it. Sad!

Stuff like stealing 401ks to prop up the Enron'd books will likely make more people lose it and do more awful things.

Sad.

 

G-Money's picture
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Re: Treasury and Labor Put Out Feelers Regarding Stealing ...

The hearings examined a proposal from professor Teresa Ghilarducci of the New School for Social Research in New York to give all workers "a $600 annual inflation-adjusted subsidy from the U.S. government" in return for requiring workers "to invest 5% of their pay into a guaranteed retirement account administered by the Social Security Administration."

Let me get this straight: If I make 100k annually the government would take $416 per month for a promise to pay me back $600 per month when I retire in 35 years? (Of course it would be inflation adjusted so the annuity will probably be something like $600,000,000,000,000.00 per month). Sounds like a deal!

What's odd is that they actually seem to say that the annuity amount is the same regardless of the dollar amount of the 5% that an individual "invests". Seriously, they're not even trying anymore. Just come out and say it. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need". You know you want to!

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SagerXX
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People are really starting to lose it...
Davos wrote:

Glad I moved into the mountains, Celente said when people have nothing they have nothing to lose and they lose it.

Hate to say the man is right but today's news indicates people are losing it. Sad!

Yeah, like this guy:  

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/02/18/texas.plane.crash/index.html?hpt=T1

 

nb:  edited to fix link

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Johnny Oxygen
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Re: People are really starting to lose it...

OK. I just have to say it: This guy finally blew his stack.

Get it? Joseph Stack?...er....Foot in mouth

Tall's picture
Tall
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Re: People are really starting to lose it...

This concerned me, so I started investigating. This article seems to be an alarmist piece from Gingrich. It has been picked up on blogs all over the place with the same sentence bolded.

I found this from Bloomberg that seems to suggest that the plan is to have individuals invest their money with private annuity providers. 

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20603037&sid=aHFCE999fWR0

Retiree Annuities May Be Promoted by Obama Aides

 Jan. 8 (Bloomberg) -- The Obama administration is weighing how the government can encourage workers to turn their savings into guaranteed income streams following a collapse in retiree accounts when the stock market plunged.

The U.S. Treasury and Labor Departments will ask for public comment as soon as next week on ways to promote the conversion of 401(k) savings and Individual Retirement Accounts into annuities or other steady payment streams, according to Assistant Labor Secretary Phyllis C. Borzi and Deputy Assistant Treasury Secretary Mark Iwry, who are spearheading the effort.

//

Annuity Sellers

Government success in getting workers to move retirement assets into annuities may prove profitable for insurers that sell annuities, Anne Mathias, policy research director for Washington Research Group, a policy analysis unit of Concept Capital, said in an interview.

Retirement plans, including 401(k) accounts, held $3.6 trillion in assets at the end of the second quarter of 2009, while annuity investments of all kinds totaled about $2.3 trillion, according to figures from the Washington-based Investment Company Institute, a trade association for asset managers.

The top sellers of individual annuities in the U.S. include AIG, MetLife Inc., Hartford Financial Services Group Inc., Lincoln National Corp. and New York Life Insurance Co., according to figures from the American Council of Life Insurers for 2008. The top group-annuity sellers include ING, Prudential Financial, MetLife and Manulife Financial Corp.

//

I don't know if it is the same thing, but it is the only one I found that is not an intenet echo.

Usually, if the feds are seeking public comment, the issue is easily found in the federal register.

Anybody find anything else, or is this another "death panel" situation?

 

 

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Morpheus
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Re: Treasury and Labor Put Out Feelers Regarding Stealing ...

Tall, Newt's a piece of trash. No doubt. 

But...

How many times do we have to be fooled by this gaggle of treasonous kleptocrats called CONgress? 

Starts out as annuities, morphs into an income fund, income fund then designated to be treasury bonds, and viola, more slop dumped into the trough for the hogs to spend. 

Boil the frog slowly. First people are "encouraged" to accept the annuity option. I'm certain there will be potent tax incentives to do so, and disincentives not to. Then, when critical mass is reached, and enough sheople eat this brand of clover, the syndicate crosses the line and makes it mandatory. If you know your typical self-absorbed, ignorant fellow citizen, the dialogue will go like this: 

"Hell, I converted to the annuity and I'm getting a monthly check. The programs works. I see know reason why you shouldn't either. The government says that if everyone were required to convert to the annuity, then the program will be more stable. Furthermore, I saw a roundtable discussion on CNN last night. Mandatory annuities would ensure stability until the year 12,545! Experts say so!!!. I'll be damned if I'm going to let some "selfish rich person (rich = has more than I do) jeopardize MY annuity. So, convert your damn 401K!. I vote, and your selfishness affects me. I support the President and I support the Retirement Security Program!" 

 

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MarkM
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Re: Treasury and Labor Put Out Feelers Regarding Stealing ...

There is no doubt that this idea is real and has been around for a while.

http://www.sharedprosperity.org/bp204.html

Anything with "shared prosperity" in the title gives me cause for concern.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/PersonalFinance/story?id=6122417&page=1

For me this is just another little red flag that keeps me moving on my plans.  Does it specifically state that 401ks will be confiscated and used by the government (for your own good, of course)? No. However, if you read the article, I think you will realize that the notion is not a stretch.

G-Money's picture
G-Money
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Re: Treasury and Labor Put Out Feelers Regarding Stealing ...

Agreed Mark. "The Agenda for Shared Prosperity" is one of those Orwellian titles that makes the hair on the back of neck stand up. Kind of like Paul Wolfowitz's "Office of Special Plans". Just got the willies.

Tall's picture
Tall
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Re: Treasury and Labor Put Out Feelers Regarding Stealing ...

Thanks all.

I appreciate the history Mark. I am sensitive to the issue ever since I saw a news article a few years ago about (I think it was) congress considering a move to 'borrow' against the federal-employee 401k, the TSP system. I searched for that piece, but could not find it to post a link here.

There is so much retirement money sitting out there, I agree that it represents an attractive target.

I am just sick of items being spun out in the media and on the internet to create a buzz of fear.  I certainly don't need issues or events exaggerated to be afraid right now!

 

 

Morpheus's picture
Morpheus
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Re: Treasury and Labor Put Out Feelers Regarding Stealing ...
Tall wrote:

Thanks all.

I appreciate the history Mark. I am sensitive to the issue ever since I saw a news article a few years ago about (I think it was) congress considering a move to 'borrow' against the federal-employee 401k, the TSP system. I searched for that piece, but could not find it to post a link here.

There is so much retirement money sitting out there, I agree that it represents an attractive target.

I am just sick of items being spun out in the media and on the internet to create a buzz of fear.  I certainly don't need issues or events exaggerated to be afraid right now!

 

 

Again, to claim that they are exaggerated, in light of the time proven tactics of the oligarchy, is either utter denial of the reality of the situation, or a misplaced trust in the stated intent of the oligarchy. 

I'm sorry that I have to phrase it this way, but until we stand in total vigilance, standing guard against incrementalism, we're going to continue to get screwed. 

Yes, there are PLENTY of things to be afraid of. Why? Because they nearly ALL started out just as innoculous as this issue. Only when it was apparent that we'd been screwed did we gripe about it. 

And then it was too late. 

And we want to what? Treat this the same way and expect a different outcome????

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