TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, THE NEW EMERGING PARADIGM.......

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TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, THE NEW EMERGING PARADIGM.......

 

Dear All,

I am in the process of developing a new paradigm which could hold the key to the future. It is called Transfinancial Economics. If true many of the problems of the world could be solved. It is also a win-win approach in which everyone is a winner including the rich AND more importantly the poor. It is a big subject, and I have included a link from the p2pfoundation. Admitedly, it will receive a little more editing but essentially the basics of TFE as it is sometimes referred to are explained.

 

http://www.p2pfoundation.net/Transfinancial_Economics

 

Comments are always welcome.

 

Robert Searle

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Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, THE NEW EMERGING ...

 

 Had a read of the linked page, and well......  You say "If true "  

To put it politely, so far from true

Re do "the crash course. "

 

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Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, THE NEW EMERGING ...

 

Evidently, you do not understand the basics of TFE or else you would not have answered in the way you did. So, I would be interested to see what you do not understand, or do not find clear.

 Most people including economists(!!) would find the ideas alien to mainstream thinking. But they do have their own logic, and power. This may not necessarily be clear to begin with.

 I look forward to some intelligent, and constructive dialogue not only from you but from other people as well.

 Robert Searle.

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Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, THE NEW EMERGING ...

 

Hmmm    needs "Automatic Inflation Adjustment "

Is still a FAIT money system, It seem to miss the point made in the CC inflation is roughly the result of the central bankers creating too much money,

Business are merely reacting to the central banks irresponsibility, and TFE would hand even more power to the government bureaucrats.

Like they have done a good job to date......

Fun mind game for someone obviously, but seriously.......

I am  a Chemical engineer, and the accounting that we were taught as part of our course was clear and logical. Most of the accounting used by financial institutions looks like it is designed to hide the truth, not reveal it.

Cheers Hamish

 

 

 

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Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, THE NEW EMERGING ...

 

Dear Hamish,and Co,

Thank you for your remarks.

(1) What is "too much" money is largely determined by advanced computer technology. Thus, it would be possible to work this out with special programming in which the electronically registered transactions of the entire registered (and unregistered) economy would be recorded "instantly" at any point of time.A certain amount of  inflation would still be possible, and a point may be reached in which "over-priced" transactions would experience an instant inflation adjustment. In other words, the bank would have powers to transmit to  the customers account an instant electronic subsidy created out of new new non-repayable money.This  would in effect stop any more devaluation of the money involved in the transaction concerned.

What all this essentially means is that new non-repayable money could be created with low to high inflation risk without the need for taxation, and fundraising(for certain NGOs). There would always be enough capital in the economy ensuring a reasonable "natural" equilibrium of supply,and demand.

 Also  these electronic bank processess concerned with inflation checks (and direct controls if absolutely necessary) would be largely automatic requiring little in the way of staff. In other words, little bureaucracy is involved, and the same goes to businesses registration for inflation checks of their products, and services by the government (replacing the tax authorities).

 (2) Private banks could still create, and transmit new money in a measured way as interest free loans, and/or non-repayable money into relevant accounts. There is no reason why even more power should go to  governments "unnecessarily".  

 I would like to resepectively ask you this question, and it is one which I always bring up when people "criticize" TFE. What is your solution to the financial, and global problems? Now,that is a different ball game!!!

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Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, THE NEW EMERGING ...

Okay.. I read through some of it and I have a few general questions.

1.  How does the government, central to this TFE, obtain their funding if the system depends upon the absence of taxes?

2.  Why did you do this?

I only ask because all systems are corruptable (have loop holes to be found) and the intent or motive to the creation of any system, by its creator, is very important to me.

Thank you.  I'd like to read what you have to say about this TFE.  I like your wiki entry but I would prefer to converse with you directly.  This is great that you are thinking about alternative theories.

Thank you!

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Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, THE NEW EMERGING ...

Robert,

The thing that strikes me the most about what I read on the linked page is the presence of the word "control", particularly through computer programming.  This to me is centralized planning.  The idea sounds like a good concept, but I find that such control sounds too "big-brotherish" to me.  It takes us from soverign individuals who have the choice to charge and pay what we think is a fair price for our labor, and gives that decision to someone else.  I also have a distrust of putting computers in this role, particularly where the programing will be done by humans.  They (computers) are wonderful tools, but there is always the "nothing can go wrong - go wrong - go wrong - go wrong" scenario.  It sounds like you are reaching for a reduction in the role that money plays in society as far as status goes, and I agree that we should be headed in that direction, but I think that a top down approach like you propose in not the best way to go about it.

 

What are my solutions for the problems we are facing today?  I don't have anything so formalized as you, but it basically boils down to expanding what is happening on this site, for a start.  Educating people about the root causes of the problems, discussing the various ideas and proposals, and encouraging everyone to do what ever they can to help themselves and others weather the storm.   We need to be creating the new paradigms that will take us forward, and for me that means an even more dramatic shift than the one you have proposed - it will need to be about localizing what we do, and reducing our level of consumption, living more carefully, and treading more lightly on the earth.  We need to learn from the natural world how to use our land more intensively - not through larger farms and bigger machines, but through emulating nature, useing land for more than one purpose at a time.  

I'm just rambling at this point, but it is a start of what is in my head for possible solutions.  I welcome any questions and counterpoints.

All the best,

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Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, THE NEW EMERGING ...
Searle88 wrote:

 
I would like to resepectively ask you this question, and it is one which I always bring up when people "criticize" TFE. What is your solution to the financial, and global problems? Now,that is a different ball game!!!

Let the financial markets and economy crash, get rid of fiat currencies, ALOW recessions to happen without trying to fix them.

 

Letting the economies crash will automatically reduce consumption 

Crudely speaking, the current mess is a result of trying to fix recessions.

 

If an economy is facing a recession because there is not enough money around, one is must face the issue of " where did all the money go" instead of just printing more.

It forces restraint on governments. 

 So many of the criticisms of gold as money by people such as Bernanke  are so clearly based on faulty logic.

Bernanke in a speech used the words speculators and "attacked the British gold reserves" in language that clearly would lead you to believe that he was saying that the "speculators" were doing something wrong when they turned up at the reserve bank and demanded that the bank give them gold in exchange for their money ( as was printed on the notes as was in the USA ) The reserves were depleting so fast the government was forced to "close the gold window, and the speculators turned their attention to Americas gold reserves" then the USA government was forced to close the gold window.

And why did this all happen, Because the Banks were stupid and printed more notes than they had gold to back, and a few people caught on and wanted out as the govt and central bank was doing a Mugabie.

It also probably helped in a reduction in confidence in banks which may have contributed to the run on the banks. The common man might have been thinking "after all they broke their promise over gold, so what is next ?"

But Bernanke's speech was appeared to blame gold for theses problems.

 

Trying to to tightly control a system you do not understand the dynamics of is fraught with the risk of over-corrections caused by a poor understanding of the consequences of the response. Long experience would appear to show that the more control the bankers try to have, the worse the eventual crash is.

 

Cheers hamish

 

 

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Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, THE NEW EMERGING ...

Hi, would you mind elaborating more on your concept of "unearned interest free money" and/or "unrepayable money"? Is your suggestion that people and institutions would basically produce their own money "on demand" for their own purposes? I could not discern from your writings any detailed and clear explanation. Finally, are you equating "capital" with "money"? Sorry for the bunch of questions but I don't think that your texts are clear.

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Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, THE NEW EMERGING ...

 

Dear Caroline Culbert,

                          The answer to your first question is simple.

 1) Like banks it creates new money not as loans but as grants(ie. non-repayable)out of thin air. Such transmissions of capital  along with the rest of the money is tracked electronically. This would be the job of banks which incidently would not only be able to create interest free loans but non-repayable money under certain conditions.

 2) Why I have been slowly but surely developing TFE is hard to explain other than a desire to see the end of this ludicrous debt-based financial system. More importantly, it would have profound implications for global justice.

 Also, all systems are corruptable but we do need to be positive and make sure  that safeguards are put in place. It is too easy to become over-negative about such subject as this.

 

Robert Searle.

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Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, THE NEW EMERGING ...
Searle88 wrote:

 

Dear Caroline Culbert,

                          The answer to your first question is simple.

 1) Like banks it creates new money not as loans but as grants(ie. non-repayable)out of thin air. Such transmissions of capital  along with the rest of the money is tracked electronically. This would be the job of banks which incidently would not only be able to create interest free loans but non-repayable money under certain conditions. 

grants from whom?

Searle88 wrote:

 2) Why I have been slowly but surely developing TFE is hard to explain other than a desire to see the end of this ludicrous debt-based financial system. More importantly, it would have profound implications for global justice. 

could you expand on your idea of "global justice"?

Searle88 wrote:

 

 Also, all systems are corruptible but we do need to be positive and make sure  that safeguards are put in place. It is too easy to become over-negative about such subject as this. 

 

I'm not overly-negative, but I am profoundly skeptical!  With weeks like these, that is, financial chaos, I tend to be more leery of anything that would "cross my path".  Fool me once, shame on you; Fool me twice, shame on me.  I try to live by this motto.

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Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, THE NEW EMERGING ...

Sounds like my "everything for free" concept in the What if? thread......  only much more complicated!

Besides, what makes you think we will have the controlling computers you advocate in 20 or 30 years time when the grid goes down?  Like someone else said, go back and re-do the CC....  There's much more to our problems than money.... like hockey sticks everywhere, Peak Oil, Environmental collapse.....

Money's the least of our problems.  I need food. 

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Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, THE NEW EMERGING ...

I (think) I'll better appreciate your idea more if you can explain it in more detail.  It's not the amount of writing you provide, but how you describe your plan, say in a paragraph, that can give me an overall central concept of your theory.  Anticipate objections!

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Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, THE NEW EMERGING ...

 

ReubenBailey,

                    What you said is quite a common comment.But we have to remember that computers already run the monetary show.In TFE they could be re-programmed, and/or be replaced by more advanced models to deal with any degree of possible serious inflation.

It must be understood here that we are not discussing a centralised command economy of the old Soviet Union. On the contrary we are dealing with capitalism. The direct electronic inflation controls if necessary are used to SUPPORT the economic system rather than control it.

 Yes,it is good to encourage education on basic mainstream economics,and this website is doing a good job. At the same time there is an urgent need for a global paradigmshift.The bottoms up approach is alright to a point but it will not be able to deal with the really important, and  big issues of the day. For that a top down approach is the best way irrespective of what think of politicians,and their ilke.

 R.Searle

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Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, THE NEW EMERGING ...

 

Dear Hamish, and Co,

                   This is not really a solution as such, and certainly nothing new.The Bust will certainly have some benefits in trying to tighten up the financial system But what a way to do it...if you  can call it that!??? Moreover, your "solution" will not solve many of the problems of the world,and would probably retain the debt based monetary system of taxation, and interest.

 It is also important to understand that economists do not necessarily fully understand the intricacies of  their subject. The same could be even said with those managers involved in the Credit Default Swap farce!! Quite a few of them did  not really fully comprehend what they were doing...or so it would transpire.

For myself  it is not important whether I know everything about the minutiae of economics.What matters first are the basics, and using them to develop the concept of TFE more,and more fully. However, some point in the not too distrant future a professional website will emerge,and will have in part commissioned, and uncommissioned papers on the more detailed,and  technical aspects of this subjects.This would notably involve econometric modelling.

 

R.Searle

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Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, THE NEW EMERGING ...

 

No one can be sure of the future. We have to  be open-minded.Obviously, there are many problems in the world which require thought,and planning.However, in the present system money is king,and it can buy you some food!!

 Ofcourse, in a natural economy everything is free.You would probably find the Venus Project of Jacque Fresco of great interest.He believes in a Resource Based Economy.But before we can get there we need to reform the present capitalist system. TFE holds the key to that evolutionary transition.

                                        http://www.thevenusproject.com/

 Robert Searle.

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Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, THE NEW EMERGING ...

 

Dear Caroline Culbert,

               The grants could come from a government agency,via decision-making trusts for various NGOs,and indeed banks.

As for a global justice it would means NGOs such as Amnesty International, and Greenpeace would bebetter financed (with little,or no fundraising than before). NGOs concerned with grassroots work in Developing World would be better financed. In other words,TFE could empower,and enhance democracy in so many ways!

 If you look at the end of p2pfounation entry on TFE you will see a list in which global justice  would benefit. No doubt more data could be added.

 I will sum up the basic mechanics of TFE very shortly in a paragraph as I am  suddenly pressed for time.

R.Searle.

 

 

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Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, THE NEW EMERGING ...

 

Dear Caroline Culbert,

 On second thoughts, I feel that TFE has been "simply" explained in the first paragraph or so of the TFE entry. So, you might like to re-read it if you want.

R.Searle.

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Re: Replace TFE with MPE and you have a winner

I enjoyed reading about Transfinancial Economics and I think that it is vitally important that we replace our current monetary system as it is flawed beyond reform. However, while I agree with part of TFE I found several aspects that I take exception to and hope some discussion will help us find more common ground.

First, I wholeheartedly agree that money should be free; or more exactly, free from any interest. Chris Martensen brings up the fact that since interest is applied to all newly created money; that debt must always exceed the amount of currency. Chris terms this as the exponential growth of debt/interest that inherently will cause a burden to the circulation of currency, and eventual failure. This is the key problem today, we have hit a point where there are not enough willing and worthy borrowers to increase the money supply adequately to offset the periodic payments of interest in servicing our past debt.

Michael Rowbotham hits this point squarely in "The Grip of Death: A study of modern money, debt slavery and destructive economics" when he states that "The decision of governments throughout the world -- following the British model -- not to monetize their country's wealth themselves, but to force private citizens into debt if they want to exchange goods and services with each other, needs to be re-examined."

Of course, Michael is talking about the parasitic private central banking system that originated in Great Britain over several hundred years ago. This is the very system that according to Benjamin Franklin; caused the American Revolution: 

"Having usurped British Parliament, "the Bank of England" required the American colonists to adopt a currency subject to as much as 30 percent annual interest. As interest is the rate at which debt is multiplied, the greater the rate of interest, the faster the dispossession by artificially multiplied indebtedness."

Franklin later explained the substantial effects and principal cause of the American Revolution to a friend in France "We would have gladly borne the little tax on tea and other matters, had it not been that they took from us our money, which created great unemployment and dissatisfaction. Within a year, the poor houses were filled. The hungry and homeless walked the streets everywhere."

Your system seems to be selective in who receives interest free money. I contend that all interest should be eliminated as it is tyranny for any system to subject the people to the usury that terminally damages any monetary system and only profits private banks. Our current system has a finite lifespan, and I think we are close to the end. This is unfair to the people as we see our government and the private Federal Reserve Bank attempting to artificially extend the lifespan by injecting money, not borrowed by private entities, into the system through bailouts, nationalization and other "unprecedented" means.

I think the key question is can a free monetary system (free from interest) be devised to protect the value of the currency by eliminating the harmful effects of inflation and deflation? If we are able to solve this riddle and implement such a system, it would be the greatest boom to freedom and prosperity in our countries celebrated history. Your system seems to address this by price feedback and manipulation. It would be better to devise a system that inherently balances the amount of circulation with the consumption and depreciation of goods and services.

I suggest that such a system has been developed, the Mathematically Perfected EconomyTM (MPE). It would be well worth your while to visit the website to review how the system works. There may be great potential in implementing the MPE as part of your overall plan.

 

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Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, THE NEW EMERGING ...

Robert,

I know that computers are primarily used for monetary transactions - I do use online banking on occasion.  That is not my argument.  My argument is with using them to automatically regulate things.  I believe that there was a mini market melt down in February of 2007 because of computers that were trading automatically and something went wrong.  I don't know how you come to the conclusion that the inflation controls are supporting the economy as opposed to control it.  The way you have described the process, it sounds to me like prices are limited by the inflation-limiting software.  If that is not price fixing or centralized control, then I don't know what it is.

As for a paradigm shift, yes, we need one.  Rather than a top-down one imposed on us that adds to centralized power, how about one where education brings about the paradigm shift? It can be changed, one person at a time. Can it happen quickly enough to "save" us? I don't know.  A better question in my mind is "should we be trying to "save" our current system?"  As hard as life will be if it happens, we may be better off as a whole if the system does go down.

Below I have quoted the paragraph that I believe you were referring to in your response to Caroline.  I have added emphasis to some points that I have questions about or wish to comment on. Bold face type is yours, italics are mine.

Quote:

This is a brief "non-technical" introduction to a "new" futuristic
monetary reform. It is called Transfinancial Economics or TFE,
sometimes called Non-Taxation Monetary Reform.

It revolves around the concept that apart from earned money
new non-repayable (ie.unearned) capital
(please define) can be responsibly created, (who decides what is responsible creation?) and
transmitted (ie money is electronic in the main, and is sent
electronically from one account to another) without taxation for
democratic governments,and indeed, to a large extent fundraising by
NGOs in many cases. This is a "revolution" in our understanding of
money and the world. In the right hands (whose hands are the right ones? Who decides that?), this concept could be one of
the greatest breakthroughs of the 21st century and beyond.

However,there is arguably more than enough earned money (please define) to
change the world. Ofcourse, it would be highly ethical for it to be
more fairly distributed, or rather redistributed as understood in a
genuine socialist system. Yet, most of us realize this is unlikely to
occur in the immediate future..if at all.

As such TFE recognizes this, and believes that the best way
forward is the responsible creation, and tranmission to governments,
and NGOs of new non-repayable money circulated along with its earned
counterpart. It is realized that greater financial empowerment lies
with LEGAL ACCESS to it (define) when, and wherever there is a true need for it. (Need for what? who decides if the need for it is a "true" one?)
The only other limits to success in such matters is effective planning,
and relevant resources.
(????)

In normal circumstances, the creation, and transmission of new
non-repayable money in a measured way could lead in time to
hyperinflation. Yet, this is unlikely in the light of "new"
understanding which will be explained in the next sction of the p2p
foundation entry. All the same though advanced computer technology and
programming
(Who pays for the computers? Who programs them? who decides how the programs should work? who decides when the market prices are becoming too inflated?) could be developed, and then used to deal with this
instantly, effectively, and directly (explained later on).

I look forward to your response.

All the best,

 

 

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Re: Replace TFE with MPE and you have a winner

 

Dear Sir,

                   Thank you for your post. I am glad you liked the old kheper essay which should be removed next year. It is just kept there for old times sake but its understanding of the inflation controls is crude, and overly simplistic, and not as better developed as in  the p2pfoundation entry. Ofcourse, Michael Rowbothams book is well-known, and respected in monetary reform circles. You may have come across Ellen Browns book Web of Debt. If you have not you would find it fascinating  as it is very well researched.

However, her monetary proposal is very much like mine but TFE offers a fuller "more detailed" picture of how such a system could work. I have put a critique about it onsite. What her proposal lacks is the vital importance of the computerized dimension. This is essential because MONEY = ELECTRONIC DATA. Without DIRECT, AND LARGELY ACCURATE knowledge as to how much money is transmitted, and how much is used, and how much is invested in some asset at any point of time the chances of creating a credible tax, and interest free monetary system for the modern world are greatly diminished.

As you will probably realize TFE is also similiar to Social Credit founded by Clifford Douglas.  Some regard the former as a sort of modernization of the latter. Inevitably, I am bound to say that TFE is more advanced, and for good reason.

Yes, I am well-aware of MPE. I did have some correspondence with Mike Montagne about it a long while ago but I have certain doubts about him as to the sources of some of his data which I do not wish to enlarge on.

Apologies for not adding any links here.

 

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Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, THE NEW EMERGING ...

Dear Reuben Bailey,

1. Yes, ofcourse computers can fail, and I read about the case you mention along traders trying to sue for compensation for any loss in profits.

2. When I first started on this TFE "venture" I put undue emphasis on the need for price like controls (as expressed notably in the kheper essay to be removed fairly soon, and certain posts not found on this site). This was a mistake as it has become abundantly clear that new non-repayable money can be created without them if we have electronic data of the degree of inflation risk involved. Even if a serious error occurred electronically it could be fixed but it would ofcourse damage confidence in the system.

Any kind of direct control would be used only if it were absolutely necessary. The same is true of the present economic system as anything like price controls are politically unpopular, and would only be a temporary measure.

I will come back to your message shortly as time again is suddenly not on my side! Duty calls!

RS

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Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, THE NEW EMERGING ...

 

Dear Reuben Bailey,

                      To continue where I left off..

 

3. I agree in many ways that the monetary system should collapse altogether. The problem is what would replace it...some kind of anarchic society based on barter, or even a free economy without the need, or use of money...perhaps some form of bourgeoning community currency...or even some kind of dictorship???

 Now briefly the quieries concerning certain words, and statements in the TFE entry.

i. new non-repayable (ie.unearned) capital = the word capital is used in this context to replace the word money, or finance.

ii. responsible creation = credible legislation could be created by governments. It is in their interest, and everyone else.. even the bankers!

iii. in the right hands= the hopefully positive progressive policies of "genuine" democratic governments, and "genuine" NGOs.

iv. earned money =People normally earn it as wages, and/or profits in the present capitalist system.

 v.legal access to it= NGOs would need to have access to money, or "it" in this context because they would need to fund various social,economic, and political projects either in full, or in part. The same is true of governments.. In the case of NGOs the new funding would be decided upon by independent trusts, and foundations as is the case today. Private donations would be largely unnecessary.

Democratic governments would have NO money. It would have no huge tax sum to draw upon. Instead an independent public authority would create it electronically and carry out appropriate checks to ensure that the funding was justified. This is to prevent deficit spending, and would require genuine legislation.

vi. effective planning, and relevant resources= Whether a plan is undertaken by governments, NGOs, or business it has to be careful, and fully thought-through ideally. In other words, whatever it takes to get some social, economic, and politcal  "venture" off the ground. In certain cases, independent checks may be necessary to see whether any natural, and artificial resource is on the priority list of scarse essential "goods," or "materials".

 It may also be necessary to run certain checks on the computers . This would be a sort of an inflation risk assessment which would probably prove in most cases that the transmission of new money would  be a low, or zero inflation risk.

vii.The inflation computers could be run by banks with relevant government legislations. The banks themselves could be paid to do this by the government via an independent public authority. Ofcourse, the former could create its own money for profits, and pay wages for any of its staff but that would be totally unacceptable, and would be seen as fraud.

I hope the above has answered most of the points you raised in your last email, or poster as Americans like to call it.

 

R.Searle.

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Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, THE NEW EMERGING ...

Searle88 -

Thanks for your response and the info on Ellen Brown's book - I will give it a read. If there is a newer link that better describes TFE I would greatly appreciate it - feel free to e-mail me at [email protected].

We agree on much - especially the concept that a government should monetize a system without adding any burden to the people. Three things that I think are critical in discussing the current system are:

1) We can never pay the national debt - as Chris Martenson and many others have correctly stated, the amount of debt must always exceed the amount of money in circulation - we can never pay down our debt and are shackled by the parasitic interest. Thus, the amount of debt must always grow, exponentially. This alone should sound an alarm.

2) More people are losing more money than any time in history. This trend is accelerating.

3) In times of great financial upheaval, like we are witnessing now, wealth is not destroyed but merely transferred. We are seeing the savings and wealth of the many being transferred to the few. Sorry if I sound conspiratorial but - I think this is by design.  

One thing that amazes me is the absence of any serious discussion regarding real change in our monetary system. All efforts seem to point to getting the existing system back on track; to re-establish some equilibrium. I would contend that even if it would be possible to begin borrowing enough to get the system working again - why would this be desired?

I guess my big questions to you are - do you foresee a time when a serious discussion will take place? Have you had any interest from politicians? 

 

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Searle88
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Posts: 18
Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, THE NEW EMERGING ...

Hi, there!

At present there is only the p2pfoundation entry, and the old kheper essay to be removed fairly soon. However, I do post some of my ideas as they come to me on the Discussion Group of the http://www.globaljusticemovement.net

The link to the GJM Discussion Group is

                       http://globaljusticemovement.net/pipermailmail/discussion_globaljusticemovement.net

 

 I hope the links will work. Also, there are not many references to TFE on the internet...

I  think serious discussion will come about after the possible publication of The Non-Taxation Revolution:Monetary Reform, and Global Justice. Since I am self-taught it would be necessary to have the data concerning economics checked out to see if it is reasonably accurate, and makes true sense even though it is radical by todays standards!

Before that though I am hoping that I may be able to get a paper published in a respected journal which is forward thinking. I did believe it, or not nearly get one published a longwhile ago but I decided to withdraw it( after signing copyright forms)  due to a "row" with the editor/publisher. So, I will be trying again as my ideas are becoming increasingly more developed, and informed.

Anyway, ultimately the aim is to set up a professional website on which papers by willing economists (notably econom would be commissioned, and published along with those by IT experts..et al. This should lend credibility to TFE, and a campaign would be launched to educate democratic governments, and yes, corporations about TFE and he potentional socio-economic benefits of the system.It is hoped that the prototypes of the future banking computers would be developed, and trials undertaken. As you may probably realize there are other aspects to all this possible future campaign. The internet would play a big part, and the TFE website would be multi-lingual..

                                      Might be Interest.

Here is a recent post on TFE called The Basic Mechanics of Transfinancial Economics for the GJM Discussion Group

 

Some basis insights here are given on Transfinancial Economcs but greater detail will come about with the commissioning of willing economists into the developing TFE project.

R.Searle.
A.THE TWO BASIC AIMS OF TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, OR TFE.
The two basic aims of TFE is to
a) Stimulate economic growth via a tax free, and interest free model. This would have consequences for social,economic, and political justice when in the "right hands" (notably democratic governments, and NGOs).
b) At the same time there is an urgent  need to create sustainable growth through innovation. In TFE projects which have little, or no real commercial interest would be stimulated with profit subsidies, interest free loans, and commercial grants created out of new non-repayable money by democratic governments, and banks.
B.MONEY EQUALS ELECTRONIC DATA.
Most of the money of the world exists as electronic data transmitted from one bank acount to another. Thus, the use of words transmitted, and transmission are commonly used in this subject as a constant reminder that we are dealing with money as electronic "energy", and data. The word money flows is not really used unlike conventional economics.
C. THE ELECTRONIC TRACKING OF MONETARY TRANSACTIONS OF GOODS, AND SERVICES.
MOST goods, and products in TFE are registered with the banking system, or agency of it. This mandatory Registration replaces taxation.legislation. However, there is also a much smaller  Unregistered Economy (say about 10-20% of the entire GDP possibly)in which goods, and services are tracked but as to what they are exactly remains largely unknown unless declared ofcourse.
A device similiar to a electronic barcode reader(used today at many large, and small shops, and notably supermakets)could be used to instantly record the changes in prices of goods, and services when being sold. This ofcourse would normally happen at the check out. This information is transmitted to the bank, or an agency for it.
Wages, and profits too would have to be clearly indentified, and continually subject to inflation checks as soon as they are banked. Thus, in effect the banks computers would have exact knowledge, and disclosure of what is going on in most of the economy at any given moment
Apart from retailers ofcourse wholesalers, manufacturers, and other "middlemen" would be affected by the inflation legislation replacing taxation. 
D. POSSIBLE INCREASING DEMAND, AND SUPPLY OF PRODUCTS, AND SERVICES.
In a tax, and interest free economy there is a growing supply of products, and services. This is stimulated in part by greater earned profits (a part of which would have otherwise gone into taxation) and by a sufficient amount of possible interest free loans, and grants created via the transmission of new money. How much of it is determined by relevant planning, and resources, and the banks inflation computers would also be able to work an estimate of how high, or low the inflation risk involved to the rest of the economy. This latter aspect would be more advanced, and accurate than the present economic forecasting.
E. DIRECT ELECTRONIC INFLATION CONTROLS TRANSMITTED VIA THE BANKING SYSTEM.
.
It may well be unlikely that any kind of inflation controls would be necessary as the supply and demand would largely be in balance. They would though ofcourse replace taxation, and interest rates on loans. Since most of the money in the economy is identified (eg. a specific product, or service, or particular wage etc) then they could be targetted for one, or more of an array of electronic methods. These notably could be
i) Automatic Inflation Deduction. This is when the higher inflated or "hyperinflated" portion of a price, or wage, or profit  could be instantly deducted.
ii) Automatic Inflation Adjustment. This is when the amount of a price for example could be above a a certain level of inflation. Thus, the customers money may have been devalued in the process, and an instant subsidy is created in his, or her bank account.
iii) Instant Electronic  Subsidy. This is an updated method of keeping prices to certain levels below a temporary but "flexible" Price Ceiling. The inducement to do so would be an instant electronic subsidy on profits created (ie extra-profit created out of new unearned non-repayable money) at the time, or around the time of the transactions.
iv) Price Decrease Subsidization. If a set of  prices rise too high a celing could be created. If they breach it they could be progressively fined to zero. However, they would more than likely start to drop their prices and would receive an instant subsidy on their profits when sales are made. If there are any commercial problems caused by all this companies can apply for "instant" financial help if there is genuine cause to do so..
Essentially, the above can seen as a "psychological fix" for governments, and the public so that the fear of serious inflation, and indeed, hyperinflation can be subdued. However, prices, and perhaps price distortions in the Unregistered Economy are possible. These could in full, or in part be subjected to temporary controls if necessary.

 

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Ray Hewitt
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TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, QUACK THEORY

Pardon me but this is a quack theory. My money says Searle never studied political and economic theory and history. I would put his theory in the vicinity of fascist economics. Not the Nazi kind; the kind where government exercises control over the private economy. Been there, done that. Though I wouldn't rule out that the respectable economists who made this mess would find  his ideas interesting.

Oh what a wonderful world it would be if people could be programmed like robots. Because they can't, "transfinancial economics" takes us down another road to tyranny.

Searle's first lesson assignment is to read Why Socialism Failed

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Searle88
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Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, THE NEW EMERGING ...

 

hewittr,

            I was amused by your premature comments. Obviously, you did not read the p2p foundation on TFE properly.Try, and understand the following simple points.

i) Essentially, TFE works in a capitalist system  as it is the one which appears to work at the present time.

ii) We are talking about a Free Price System in which (as is the case today) inflation controls, or "price-like controls" are used only as the very last resort. And if utilized they would be far more advanced, and flexible than anything which has gone before.

iii) The government does not ofcourse control the sourcing, and production of goods, and services as with the old centralized/command economy of the Soviet Union.This is done through private enterprise, and entrepreneurship as is the case today

 iv) There is no tax, no interest on loans, and the possibility of commercial grants especially for specific sustainable projects which would otherwise be unviable. This would be huge boon for private enterprises, and allow them to expand as never before. Just this sound socialist, or communist.....obviously not!!?

 TFE is not a quack theory, but it does require intelligence, and vision.Like everything else the (including capitalism even ) it is a system which can be misused.

R. Searle.

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Ray Hewitt
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TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, QUACK THEORY

Searle

Your post was enough to give me a sense of direction where your theory is going.

i) Essentially, TFE works in a capitalist system  as it is the one which appears to work at the present time. 

The current system is pseudo-capitalistic in which government substitues debt money for savings.

ii) We are talking about a Free Price System in which (as is the case
today) inflation controls, or "price-like controls" are used only as
the very last resort. And if utilized they would be far more advanced,
and flexible than anything which has gone before.

That statement shows no underestanding for the root cause of inflation, namely the excess creation of money by the very agency you assign to contain inflation.

iii) The government does not ofcourse control the sourcing, and
production of goods, and services as with the old centralized/command
economy of the Soviet Union.This is done through private enterprise,
and entrepreneurship as is the case today 

And what is going to stop them in the fascist  model you have defined?

TFE is not a quack theory, but it does require intelligence, and
vision.Like everything else the (including capitalism even ) it is a
system which can be misused. 

I read that as a euphemism for the mailed fist of government. That was the fatal flaw in Plato's theory of a society ruled by philosopher-kings. Intelligentsia give lip service to free market capitalism until the reality of their failures don't fit their preconceptions.

Machines can be designed. Viable social systems cannot be designed.

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Ray Hewitt
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Posts: 458
Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, QUACK THEORY

What is "too much" money is largely determined by advanced computer
technology. Thus, it would be possible to work this out with special
programming in which the electronically registered transactions of the
entire registered (and unregistered) economy would be recorded
"instantly" at any point of time.A certain amount of  inflation would
still be possible, and a point may be reached in which "over-priced"
transactions would experience an instant inflation adjustment. In other
words, the bank would have powers to transmit to  the customers account
an instant electronic subsidy created out of new new non-repayable
money.This  would in effect stop any more devaluation of the money
involved in the transaction concerned.

Searle, you've got to be kidding. That's the system in place now. There is no objective definition for over-priced or under-priced.

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Searle88
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Posts: 18
Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS = VISION + INTELLIGENCE.

 

Hewtrr,

         So, you think the present pseudo-capitalist system or your brand of ( laissez-faire?) capitalism is perfect? Then why has it not achieved plenty for everyone. Incidently, this is not socialist concept  but something called ethics. This may be difficult to grasp. In a real capitalism system there is a fairer distribution of financial, and real wealth. In such a free society people can create wealth as business people, or alternatively work for them for wages as opposed to profit.

As to your idea of inflation it is flawed to a certain extent. Ofcourse, too much money can lead to inflation, and even hyperinflation in time. This is true but in TFE the amount is created, and transmitted in a measured way with little, or even zero inflation after checks have been made on the inflation risk factor. It would essentially be a scientific process to a certain extent, and moreover it can be spent where necessary debt-free for a number of social, economic, and political projects in which intelligent planning, and relevant resources exist. In other words, the real economy.  

Why then does this not lead to serious inflation, and hyperinflation. The answer is simple the whole economic system is moving largely at the same rate of growth, and thus, the supply, and demand is hence reasonably balanced. If however, a small part of the economy were overstimulated with capital then this would ofcourse lead to problems. In other words, this could lead to serious imbalances in supply, and demand for certain products, and services. This could then affect much of the economy.

 Yes, you are right inflation adjustment of money in banks does occur to a certain extent. With TFE the whole process  can be far more comprehensive, and dynamic as never before ensuring that capital retains most of its value in any point of time. 

And yes, again there are no objective means as such which determine what is priced correctly, or is overpriced. However, with TFE we can get a better, and more objective picture of what is going on because transactions would be tracked electronically, and can be compared to see any price changes.

Maybe you can come up with a better idea than TFE but please not the same old stuff which was repeated earlier on by another poster.

R.Searle

 

 

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Ray Hewitt
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 5 2008
Posts: 458
Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS = QUACKERY

So, you think the present pseudo-capitalist system or your brand of ( laissez-faire?) capitalism is perfect?"

"Perfect" is a poor choice words. Perfect against what? It would be more accurate to say that free societies are relatively better than command-and-control societies in the sense that they are more in harmony with the biology of self interest. There are no Utopias.

As to your idea of inflation it is flawed to a certain extent. 

I submit that your understanding of the nature of inflation is flawed.

This is true but in TFE the amount is created, and transmitted in a
measured way with little, or even zero inflation after checks have been
made on the inflation risk factor.

Ever hear of the gold standard? It forces discipline by limiting the supply to what can be mined.There is always a price at which gold can satisfy a world economy.The idea of a shortage of money is an inflationist's shibboleth.

It would essentially be a scientific process to a certain extent, and
moreover it can be spent where necessary debt-free for a number of
social, economic, and political projects in which intelligent planning,
and relevant resources exist. In other words, the real economy.  

You've just described the Federal Reserve system. Practically every nation in the world has one, all trying to coordinate their money supplies. I shouldn't have to remind you it's falling apart. It's falling apart because it's modeled after the Soviet System of central planning.

Yes, you are right inflation adjustment of money in banks does occur
to a certain extent. With TFE the whole process  can be far more
comprehensive, and dynamic as never before ensuring that capital
retains most of its value in any point of time.  

Who decides? If it is to be the State, forget about it.

And yes, again there are no objective means as such which determine
what is priced correctly, or is overpriced. However, with TFE we can
get a better, and more objective picture of what is going on because
transactions would be tracked electronically, and can be compared to
see any price changes. 

After acknowledging there is no objective standard for determining a correct price,  you inject the word "objective" again. Where I come from, that's called double-talk.

Maybe you can come up with a better idea than TFE but please not the
same old stuff which was repeated earlier on by another poster.

Go to mises.org and read the works of Mises, Hayek, Hazlitt, Rothbard and Bastiat to name a few. The site offers a course on Austrian Theory which would be a good way to start. If you continue to stay on the path of trying to design an economic system, you'll fail like all the others before you have failed. The link I provided on why socialism failed gets at the heart of why planning fails. This is as far as I can take you. But I'm not sure I can dissuade you from thinking that you know what's best for people than they know themselves.

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