Thermal-Depolymerization. An Alternative Energy Possibility?

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jerrydon10's picture
jerrydon10
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Thermal-Depolymerization. An Alternative Energy Possibility?

Woudn't it be nice to take the carbon based products we dispose of--worn out tires, slaughter house refuse, wood chips, garbage, old shoes, sewage, etc.--and turn them into oil?

It can be done and has been done since the 60s. The process is called Thermal-Depolymerization

In fact, one plant located not far from my house in Missouri has been doing this for years. Tysen poultry plants are huge around here but what to do with all that waste?

This plant turns these scraps into oil that can be refined to gasoline or placed directly into a diesel engine which will run well on this oil just as it comes out of the outlet valve in the plant.

Although there have been odor problems with this plant (neighbors complained that the area always smelled like burnt chicken feathers), the technology is here:

"Specifically, TDP turns just about anything into oil and fertilizer. And when I say "anything," I mean that: animal waste, medical waste, human waste. Used diapers, used computers, used tires. Anything that's not radioactive can be tossed into the hopper.

"Those things go in one end of the process and come out the other as diesel oil and fertilizer using a process that mimics the Earth's. But instead of taking millions of years to turn plants, dinosaurs, and what-have-you into Venezuelan crude, TDP takes hours to do the same to just about anything you can throw in it."

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/columnist/andrewkantor/2004-01-22-kantor_x.htm

So I have a question. Why could not this process not be scaled down as about any process can to operate in your backyard?

Here is an interesting you tube on the subject:

URLhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtS6K43np9o

 

Ready's picture
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Re: Thermal-Depolymerization. An Alternative Energy ...

That's an interesting position. I plan to research this a bit more and get back to you.

If you do happen to try to tinker with this, please let me come watch, we are not that far apart! If I recall, you are in Simpson's ville, aren't you?

Best,

Rog

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Re: Thermal-Depolymerization. An Alternative Energy ...

Jerry,

Do you have any ERoEI numbers on this by any chance? The thermal and water inputs scare me as the chink in the armor,

Any idea how much water is needed? Other chemicals?

As an avid biodieseler, I have to say I am intrigued. I have not heard of this process. Why? What are we missing that's not in the sales glossy?

Any idea if this plant is profitable when diesel is $2.00 US per gallon? If not, $5.00 / gal?

Please trust me when I say I am not trying to shoot you down, just save myself some research legwork!

Cheers,

Rog

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Re: Thermal-Depolymerization. An Alternative Energy ...

Nah, don't think you are trying to shoot me down. Glad to address this.

Nothing will have a negative energy in to energy out. That would conflict with the laws of thermodynamics.

But realistically we might look at cheaper energy in to more expensive energy out. That concept certainly violates nothing.

If I could turn a cord of wood which I bought for a hundred bucks into a barrel of oil selling for one hundred and fifty bucks even though I have lost energy in the conversion process, have I not bettered society in that I am delivering what they need as opposed to what they don't and making money in the process?

 

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Re: Thermal-Depolymerization. An Alternative Energy ...

Ready:

What do you use as feedstock when producing biodiesel? Obviously we can't all use waste oil from restaurant grease traps. So what kind of oilseeds do you grow? I'm asking because I have excellent sandy loam on my ranch and could probably grow 10 or even 15 acres of oilseeds without much trouble. The equipment to produce biodiesel from oilseeds is readily available and at an affordable price.

Right now I'm leaning toward sunflowers because they seem to do well here. We can also grow soybeans. I'm not sure about canola. Do you use seed from your previous crop for the next planting or do you buy fresh seed every year? Do you run straight B100 in your vehicle(s) or do you blend with petroleum diesel? Do you rotate your crops? Any information you can provide would be helpful. I'm very interested in this. Thanks.

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Re: Thermal-Depolymerization. An Alternative Energy ...

I have done the research on this, I actually attempted 4 years ago to license the process for a (large scale metro area) project.

EROI is supposed to be good to great at full scale.  However for a combination of reasons, it does not scale down too well.  Main reasons are that at small scale and intermittent operation efficiency drops, and more importantly the equipment and knowledge required to operate a high pressure and temperature cracking and refining facility is not commonplace.  I am certified to run a system like this at pilot plant scale, though not full scale, and the thought that my yahoo neighbor was running this (essentially a molotov cocktail sealed and heated to enormous pressure) would make me pause for thought.

IIRC, the pilot plant was 4 ton/ day input, and around breakeven at that scale.

For many reasons, I still believe that this is great technology, waste inputs are free, at scale it requires very small or no net energy inputs (a portion of your output is burned to provide the heat needed in process, if I recall about 10%), and the output is valuable.  Investment in equipment is high, but payback should be reasonable (again at large scale).

Unfortunately, when I pursued it they were only considering partnerships with large players already established.  ;-(

 

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Re: Thermal-Depolymerization. An Alternative Energy ...

But KW, when oil is going to 200 bucks a barrel + will it still be unprofitable? I'm not looking at the present here, but the future.

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Re: Thermal-Depolymerization. An Alternative Energy ...
jerrydon10 wrote:

Nah, don't think you are trying to shoot me down. Glad to address this.

Nothing will have a negative energy in to energy out. That would conflict with the laws of thermodynamics.

But realistically we might look at cheaper energy in to more expensive energy out. That concept certainly violates nothing.

If I could turn a cord of wood which I bought for a hundred bucks into a barrel of oil selling for one hundred and fifty bucks even though I have lost energy in the conversion process, have I not bettered society in that I am delivering what they need as opposed to what they don't and making money in the process?

 

I am completely on board with this line of thought. I get a little upside down with folks who claim to produce energy for nothing, but this is not the same pipe dream. I just need to know that I am being more efficient than another process I am capable of before considering it.

Given the same land, cost of manufacturing, etc,

If process A results in 100 gallons per hour, and process b = 50 gallons per hour of the same fuel, which would you choose?

Not having done the math, or experiencing the conversion, I need to do the due diligence that you may have already done. Happy to help if you have info that I do not that I could cruch some numbers for you.

Best,

Rog

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Re: Thermal-Depolymerization. An Alternative Energy ...
BSV wrote:

Ready:

What do you use as feedstock when producing biodiesel? Obviously we can't all use waste oil from restaurant grease traps. So what kind of oilseeds do you grow? I'm asking because I have excellent sandy loam on my ranch and could probably grow 10 or even 15 acres of oilseeds without much trouble. The equipment to produce biodiesel from oilseeds is readily available and at an affordable price.

Right now I'm leaning toward sunflowers because they seem to do well here. We can also grow soybeans. I'm not sure about canola. Do you use seed from your previous crop for the next planting or do you buy fresh seed every year? Do you run straight B100 in your vehicle(s) or do you blend with petroleum diesel? Do you rotate your crops? Any information you can provide would be helpful. I'm very interested in this. Thanks.

We can use waste oil... today. He He, collected over 200 gallons this month. But I understand where you are going with this, there will not be Chinese restaurants in the future willing to give up used grease!

I use Canola. 10 Acres will produce at least 1000 gallons of SVO or BD per year. Since you can plant spring and fall, you can more than double that number with proper care. Contact me off list for details. Where do you live?

I use a JD 10 row planter at 7.5" width, a swather, and an AC all-crop 66 for a combine. I have an 8 ton/day press, and various other implements to make it happen. My tractors, truck (mostly) and generator run on BD all year round.

Sunflowers are not as easy to harvest, and do not produce as much oil per acre, but are good if you like to hunt doves! They also make a wonderful cake for feeding pigs, cows, or birds. They are not as easy to harvest nor are they easy on the land in terms of fertilizer requirements. Also, they get hit hard by deer and other wildlife making it a bit tougher to get the maximum oil per acre.

Soybeans are not great. YMMV, but for me very low oil/acre.

I use heirloom seed that I buy in OK (contact me for details) as a part of a college trial. This means, with proper seed cleaning by the combine, it goes back into the grain drill next year. I store seed in 55 gallon plastic drums in my seed root cellar.

I have a small business doing oil extraction with my press for a portion of the output. It does not earn much gold, but I don't have to plant as much if I know what is coming my way... business idea...

Rog

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Re: Thermal-Depolymerization. An Alternative Energy ...

This is common with BD and others as well.

Do you think there is a financial benefit to pursuing this now?

Rog

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Re: Thermal-Depolymerization. An Alternative Energy ...

I don't recall the numbers, but the strength was not in using a defined feedstock (ie. something would be grown specifically for this process), but in using a variety of waste stocks (how much of a metro area's garbage is organic, that is carbon based, and would therefore break down in this process?  The answer is most, IIRC around 85%).  Being heat based, it's a no brainer for medical waste, and all sorts of animal byproducts.  Remember the large culls for fear of bird flu?  Also, there are absolutely huge tire dumps, because there is simply no good use for used tires.  Most of these feedstocks would actually pay you to take them, and when I was looking at this, oil was still around $45 a barrel, but the revenue from the deliverable product appeared to be essentially the profit margins.  the plant could be stuctured to be marginally profitable, or better, on waste handling fees and co-gen of electricity. 

It's not so much a matter of being able to turn a cash profit in the end, as the fact that a (for example) 4 ton per day plant is energy breakeven, and so just converts electricity and/or natural gas and/or coal into hydrocarbon fuel.  A 1000 ton per day plant can provide process energy (input), and co-gen for the local electrical utility, using the less desireable fractions of the output, and still have the desirable fractions for delivery.  In processes like this, a larger scale often results in less wasted heat, and almost any system is significantly more efficient on a continuous basis than an intermittent operation.  This is true even in many so called batch processes.  Even little factors can make a big difference, like the fact that a large plant can handle a 'rougher' feedstock, due to larger equipment, where the pilot scale plant would require feedstock to be sorted, graded, and ground finer before being fed into the process.

Unless the company is much freer with their information now, you won't find much published to use for critique or diligence.  I will say that I believe completely in the potential of such a process, and would gladly participate in such an endeavor, although with the financial system in disarray at the moment, I'd never be able to attract financial backing anymore.  I wish anyone willing to give it a go (large scale) the very best though.

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Re: Thermal-Depolymerization. An Alternative Energy ...

Ready,

I am not as ready as you are, that's for sure.  Can you point to any primers on BD production?  I am having a hard time following even your "layman's" terms posts.  I am lucky to live in a place where you can practically jam a worn stick in the ground and it will grown and turn into a tree (Costa Rica).  Unfortunately, I am so ignorant about growing stuff that if I planted a perfectly beautiful seed in perfectly good soil along with all the required minerals and nutrients, it would probably jump out of the ground and punch me in the face and then laugh at me.  ;)

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Re: Thermal-Depolymerization. An Alternative Energy ...

Ready:

Thanks for your response. I will contact you off-list in the next few days with further info. I appreciate your posts and your response.

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Re: Thermal-Depolymerization. An Alternative Energy ...

I am currently building a tire pyrolysis plant.

Initial stage 7 ton per day of old tires per day. Additional parallel pyrolysis units intended to expand capacity to 28 ton per day.

We are running a dry pyrolysis, no water or high pressures.

We have run about 15 test runs, each of about 600 Kg ( fixing a few glitches at present )

For each ton of tires in we got about 270 kg of liquids, 400 kg carbon,200 kg steel

The balance is gas which we burn to run the plant ( about 1/2 of the gas would be recoverable once we add in additional processing once at full scale)

It is not small thing to build, and small scale works against you in too many ways.

in some respects we could throw any organics in it, but it is tuned for tires, and  if we fed it any cloro compounds ( ie PVC ), dioxins rear their ugly head.

Trying to take anything is a far harder task than taking a "pure" feedstock.

 

 

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Re: Thermal-Depolymerization. An Alternative Energy ...
Patrick Brown wrote:

Ready,

I am not as ready as you are, that's for sure.  Can you point to any primers on BD production?  I am having a hard time following even your "layman's" terms posts.  I am lucky to live in a place where you can practically jam a worn stick in the ground and it will grown and turn into a tree (Costa Rica).  Unfortunately, I am so ignorant about growing stuff that if I planted a perfectly beautiful seed in perfectly good soil along with all the required minerals and nutrients, it would probably jump out of the ground and punch me in the face and then laugh at me.  ;)

I would consider you very lucky for your location as far as oil production goes. Not only can you grow plants that have a much higher oil per gallon ratio like oil palm and avacado, but you do not have the issues with diesel gelling in the lower temps during winter.

You need to look at BD production from 2 standpoints, growing and extracting oil, and then conversion from straight vegetable oil to BD. Which are you having difficulty with? Sounds like the growing part, and I don't have any experiecnce with oil palm, so I may not be much help. Look here for some standard oil gallons per acre info, if you can do oil palm, you have it made! 635 gallons per acre, with just 2 acres you can produce a year's worth of electricity for a single home. On the other hand, I plant canola (on this list as rapeseed) and I get 130 gallons per acre, but I can plant 2x per year.

Vegetable oil yields

Ascending order
Alphabetical order
Crop
litres oil/ha
US gal/acre
Crop
litres oil/ha
US gal/acre
corn (maize)
172
18
avocado
2638
282
cashew nut
176
19
brazil nut
2392
255
oats
217
23
calendula
305
33
lupine
232
25
camelina
583
62
kenaf
273
29
cashew nut
176
19
calendula
305
33
castor bean
1413
151
cotton
325
35
cocoa (cacao)
1026
110
hemp
363
39
coconut
2689
287
soybean
446
48
coffee
459
49
coffee
459
49
coriander
536
57
linseed (flax)
478
51
corn (maize)
172
18
hazelnut
482
51
cotton
325
35
euphorbia
524
56
euphorbia
524
56
pumpkin seed
534
57
hazelnut
482
51
coriander
536
57
hemp
363
39
mustard seed
572
61
jatropha
1892
202
camelina
583
62
jojoba
1818
194
sesame
696
74
kenaf
273
29
safflower
779
83
linseed (flax)
478
51
rice
828
88
lupine
232
25
tung oil
940
100
macadamia nut
2246
240
sunflower
952
102
mustard seed
572
61
cocoa (cacao)
1026
110
oats
217
23
peanut
1059
113
oil palm
5950
635
opium poppy
1163
124
olive
1212
129
rapeseed
1190
127
opium poppy
1163
124
olive
1212
129
peanut
1059
113
castor bean
1413
151
pecan nut
1791
191
pecan nut
1791
191
pumpkin seed
534
57
jojoba
1818
194
rapeseed
1190
127
jatropha
1892
202
rice
828
88
macadamia nut
2246
240
safflower
779
83
brazil nut
2392
255
sesame
696
74
avocado
2638
282
soybean
446
48
coconut
2689
287
sunflower
952
102
oil palm
5950
635
tung oil
940
100

Note: These are conservative estimates -- crop yields vary widely. This data is compiled from a variety of sources. Where sources vary averages are given. The yield figures are most useful as comparative estimates: a high-yielding crop may not be "better" (more suitable) than a lower-yielding crop, it depends on the particular situation. -- Keith Addison, Handmade Projects, 2001.

 

 

One comment about the link above, please do not follow the other information on the journey to forever site, it is very dated and some of it is just plain wrong.

You mention the other thread that you cannot quite follow, have you tried the bench experiment making 1 liter from store bought items? You will learn just about everything you need to know on the bench, then just scale up. If there are items that I need to add to the other thread, please let me know.

Cheers,

Rog

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Re: Thermal-Depolymerization. An Alternative Energy ...

Gyro, that's awesome! Tires are a pain to get rid of anyhow, and big piles of them are breeding grounds for mosquitoes, so you are doing the earth a double favor.

What part of the world are you in?

Cheers,

Rog

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Re: Thermal-Depolymerization. An Alternative Energy ...

Ready,

I had not seen the other thread before.  Thanks for the heads-up and all the great info there and here! 

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Re: Thermal-Depolymerization. An Alternative Energy ...

Rog, yes, I'm in Springfield, MO. Aren't you around St. Louis? I get over there all the time on business. I might stop by one of these days to check out your interesting operation?

Another interest of mine I've been toying with: We also might look into organizing a Mid-West hosting for Chris and company in a seminar as Dogs did in VA?? This is a nice central U.S. drive for many people.

It's good to see others interested in this concept and some actually doing it? Cool.

I looked at this a few years ago when oil was cheap and decided that it would not be profitable. But with oil soaring as it did recently and future projections leaving no option scenarios other than it soaring again, I see some future profits.

No, I haven't crunched any numbers recently.

 

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Re: Thermal-Depolymerization. An Alternative Energy ...

So you are burning tires in the absence of oxygen? Are the solid carbons in the form of a charcoal that can be used as such?

 

 

Quote:

It is not small thing to build, and small scale works against you in too many ways.

I was toying with an idea of a much smaller system where water is added to form the pressure. Picture the pressure cooker that grandma used to can her tomatoes but much bigger and capable of producing higher pressures.

Possibly a converted propane tank?

Cook, drain the oil off the top, rinse and repeat.

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Re: Thermal-Depolymerization. An Alternative Energy ...

 Wow!! What a great idea!

I am so glad you posted this because it is exactly what the world needs: an acceleration of natural processes that recycle currently available carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen without releasing the fossil fuels that have been storing the carbon underground for ages.  

If a system can produce more energy than it uses to convert garbage into more usable materials and not add to free carbon in the process, there is enormous potential for energy recycling.  I realize that nothng is free and that eventually there will be diminishing returns due to lost energy in heat and inefficiencies but this is really brilliant.

I also like the concept of mining garbage dumps for precious metals.  If there is going to be a large increase in construction of alternative energy sources that produce electricity, then the electrical grid will be expanded and improved, requiring a lot more steel and copper, among other things.  

If we could plunder the tossed out electric motors and copper plumbing accumulated at the bottom of landfills, while using thermal depolymerization to power the mining equipment and producing biodiesel I would guess that the return would be much better than chewing up a whole mountain for low grade ore.

Sounds like win-win-win to me.  Worthy of an investment in this company?

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Re: Thermal-Depolymerization. An Alternative Energy ...

In New Zealand.

The carbon looks much like wood charcoal, except the you can find bits with tread in them or writing on them.

As long as the mineral content ( high in zinc for example) or trace organics ( smell ) are no problem it is a straight substitute.

Before you try your grandma's pressure cooker, buy her the replacement you will owe her, and watch from a great distance while you do the explosion......  ;-)  

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Re: Thermal-Depolymerization. An Alternative Energy ...

Hello,

I'm new here, and not an engineer, or involved in experimenting with new technologies as so many here are, but I've been interested in finding solutions to our global predicament for years. In already industrialized countries I don't feel the answers lie in going back to old technologies, but in devising new, non-expoitive processes that do not create more problems than they solve. Thermal Depolymerization seems to be one such process that I've been telling people about for years.

I first heard about TDP around 2004 - (that's the date on the U-Tube video, by the way), and have never been able to understand why it hasn't been siezed on by everyone as an answer to our oil problems. It would not require a new infrastructure to distribute, it does not require sequestration because it is carbon neutral, and it uses material that otherwise fouls the environment. I've had a google alert for the words for years, yet I rarely hear about it. I was furious to learn in June of '04 that TDP had "...been excluded from New York State's proposed Retail Renewable Portfolio Standard (RPS), a guideline designed to increase to 25% the amount of electricity purchased in the state that is generated from renewable sources."

source: http://www.changingworldtech.com/press_room/index.asp?id=9

Most recently I learned that CWD is going under:

"Renewable diesel producer files for bankruptcy protection
By Ron Kotrba
Web exclusive posted March 10 2009, at 1:22 p.m. CST
Renewable diesel producer, Changing World Technologies Inc., announced March 4 that the company and its three wholly-owned subsidiaries filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection."

source: http://www.biodieselmagazine.com/article.jsp?article_id=3322 

How can this be happening!? I don't want to be labled a conspiracy nut, but I can't help thinking that enormous pressures must have been brought to bear against the success of the company by traditional, politically sanctioned energy companies.

I wish I knew how to fight for the survival of this company/technology, but I'm afraid I can't present any solutions, as the group guidlines suggest.  I feel pretty helpless.

I can share another hopeful movement, however, in case it hasn't been seen here. It's a wonderful presentation by Janine Benyus on Biomimicry. The video is here: http://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/18

Enjoy it, and maybe some of you inventive types can come up with something terrific. ...Harriet
 

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Re: Thermal-Depolymerization. An Alternative Energy ...

Hi All

Some thoughts to kick around ...........

I'm not an engineer either, but the generally the  idea of turning organic "waste" from farm products into fuel is not likely a viable concept on a large scale. The concept uses large quantities of energy to work at all, so the end result is questionable. Bio diesel from corn is insanity. To give an idea of the magnitude of our imported oil needs, we would need about  (if I did the math right) 150 million tons a day of agricultural produced "waste' to manufacture enough bio-fuel to replace our imported oil. So while the idea could work on a small scale, the ability to scale up to a meaningful volume seems remote -- and even to create a medium sized business is questionable. Now, the idea of using the current waste materials going into landfills does make   sense if we can figure out how to do it economically. We need to quit throwing everything away and get back to re-usable products as much as possible as well as converting our landfills back to usable energy and ther products. 

Additionaly, the so called agricultural "waste" being used for fuel is needed for rebuilding of soil if we are to keep from starving to death. Given Peak Oil, the ongoing use of gas/oil to make nitrogen fertilizer cannot continue - it provides instantaneous nitrogen for green growth giving us the  illusion of healthy growth while at the same time destroying the natural ability of the soil to grow anything in the longer term. Take the same Ag-waste and putting it back into the soil thereby allowing the natural process of soil building  as well as saving massive quantities of fossile fuel otherwise used for fertilizer makes far more sense.

Our idea of concentrating the feeding and slaughtering of animals in areas far remote from the crop growing areas creates the problem of so called "waste" in the first place. Any small/medium sized organic farmer has no "waste" to dispose of because it is all put back into the magic circle of life.

One day soon we will all realize that our only way of sustaining our food source comes from using the magical properties of what we now call "waste" and allowing/helping our farms back to biological health.

Jim

 

 

 

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Re: Thermal-Depolymerization. An Alternative Energy ...

Hi Jim,

OOps, you're right! As I said, I've been keeping an eye on this for years, but hadn't actually thought of it critically in a long time! We do need to drastically reduce the stuff we "throw away", and  I hate the factory farms, too. Maybe this technology's time has come and gone before it really took off.  The process is good for a lot more than animal waste, of course; electronics, for instance. And it does use the energy it poduces to fuel it's own operation. One big problem with it is that it has to specialize in one type of waste. It can't use animal waste one day, and tires the next. Another, as your message reminds me, is that we don't want mountains of waste in the first place!  Thanks, Harriet

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Re: Thermal-Depolymerization. An Alternative Energy ...

First, welcome Harriet, and thanks for that great post.

jpitre wrote:

Hi All

Some thoughts to kick around ...........

I'm not an engineer either, but the generally the  idea of turning organic "waste" from farm products into fuel is not likely a viable concept on a large scale. The concept uses large quantities of energy to work at all, so the end result is questionable. Bio diesel from corn is insanity. To give an idea of the magnitude of our imported oil needs, we would need about  (if I did the math right) 150 million tons a day of agricultural produced "waste' to manufacture enough bio-fuel to replace our imported oil. So while the idea could work on a small scale, the ability to scale up to a meaningful volume seems remote -- and even to create a medium sized business is questionable. Now, the idea of using the current waste materials going into landfills does make   sense if we can figure out how to do it economically. We need to quit throwing everything away and get back to re-usable products as much as possible as well as converting our landfills back to usable energy and ther products. 

Can't argue with anything in that post, Jim. But I want to expand on my assertion above that the fact that the laws of thermodynamics prohibit us from producing more out of a system than we put into it may be irrelevant if we change our paradigm to looking at the process as: cheap energy in and, less energy but more expensive energy out (and I think you mentioned this as well).

 Looking at an ordinary light bulb

            Electrical                                                           Light
            Energy In = 100 J (joules)             ------->           Energy Out = 70 J (joules)    + 30 J (joules) waste heat

We can then find n, our efficiency, via n = Energy Out/Energy In x100 to keep the percentages right and the burning of a light bulb is only 70% efficient.

But if I am looking at selling that Energy Out for a profit I need to factor economics into into the formula. Say I am turning out one barrel of oil that I can sell for $75 a barrel from chicken scraps I pay $10 to have hauled over from the poultry processing plant and the conversion process is only 70% efficient.

I read on the Web that there are about 6 billion joules that can be extracted from a barrel of oil. So if the process is 70% efficient it would require 8.6 billion joules as Energy In to produce that barrel. So:

n = (6,000,000,000 * 75)/(8,600,000,000 * 10) =  5.2

If I did that math right, we've increased our Joule*dollars by a factor of 5+.

Not a bad energy return when we factor in the economics.

                         


                                 

 

Jaybee Anne's picture
Jaybee Anne
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 12 2013
Posts: 2
We have the same idea buddy.

We have the same idea buddy. You got my back on that!

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