There Will be Joy in the Future Too

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jhelge's picture
jhelge
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There Will be Joy in the Future Too

A good deal of energy is expended these days on worrying about what is to come, when TSHTF and how unappealing it will be. I feel it would be valuable to discuss some of the benefits a new dynamic may hold for us. What new opportunities and happy circumstances will you welcome once a SHTF long-term phase-shift, takes place?

Personally, I am looking forward to strong communities. Much has come between people in our time of plenty. We seem to have forgotten about each other. Consumer Capitalism took more than our money from us. I will be over joyed to witness the revaluation of kinship, friendship, integrity, and respect within my own community. Social rebirth can connect us with a portion of our humanity previously neglected.

I expect future generations will be amused/disgusted by the concept of waste. Flagrant disregard for things of value will be an alien concept to them. Such acts will fall by the wayside in all surviving culture. Whole fortunes will be made recovering what was lost to our profligacy. Vast growth will extend in sustainable practices focused on efficiency, respect for each other and for the Earth. I believe these things must come to pass because their absence in the coming storm would be a fatal abandonment of reason for any who would reject them. Such people will experience great hardship until they embrace such tenets, assuming they survive. I am already seeing fewer SUVs. That's a start, right?

There will be joy in the future too. Many profound experiences in the future will hardly be recognized as honest happiness. That subtle joy is about as good as people have ever had it this side of Eden. Occasionally, moments of grief and sadness will arrive... and pass. There will times of tumult, anger and violence. But these will be tempered by peace, love and dignity. Together such things will form an amalgam known as Life; which will go on; immutably changed, but beautiful still. 

Please share some of your hopes and anticipations of future conditions drastically different from what we are accustomed to.

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Re: There Will be Joy in the Future Too

It depends I guess.

Having read in the past about the Bilderberg group and what they stand for and having seen Obama transfer more and more power to the state and watching the fleecing of the people and the effective destruction of the middle class, I think if this group 'gets up' and we effectivley end up with a one world government, then I simply don't share your bright future outlook. This outcome will lead to mass starvation and enslavement of the masses. I found this movie rather disturbing actually to realise how far the new world order had come.

If the Bilderberg group is merely just a harmless group *cough*, then the future may eventually be good for most as the parasitic financial institution is finally removed and treated with humaniside.

The biggest question I have is how will the world generate enough food for the current population when oil declines?

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Re: There Will be Joy in the Future Too

Jhelge,

I agree there will be joy in the future.  Strong communities with people directly providing for the needs of life coupled with the rebirth of participatory decision making and a slower less mediated pace of life are all great things that I look forward to.  One of the great things about the Martensons's work is how much they focus on the positive changes that the crisis will yield.  The other great thing is that we don't have to wait till TSHTF to start enjoying these benefits.  Building community, self-sufficiency, and community-sufficiency, and a more sustainable life are all things worth working on now and enjoying now, and in the long run are best begun while things are still what we are used to. 

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Re: There Will be Joy in the Future Too

I haven't been communicating or spending as much time on this site as I used to for a number of reasons, the primary one being I'm simply swamped witih work-related obligations. However, as I've touched upon in previous posts, this site has become a bit too manic in it's "end of the world as we know it" mentality for my taste. That said, I do lurk here every once in a while, & I really like the title of this post.

As a child I grew up in close vicinity to all my Grandparents & many elderly uncles & aunts (many of them who lived well into their 90's & even early hundreds) & heard endless stories about what life was like "back in the day". It didn't occur to me then, but it's interesting to recollect their stories in light of the title of this post.

During the depression, my Great Grandmother's family literally lost the family fortune. Another set of Grandparents lived in a tiny 2/1 with (on average) 4-6 people for many, many years. My Grandfather held mult. jobs simultaneously, my Grandmother cut hair in the backyard, and my Great-Grandmother operated a small bakery out of the kitchen in order to make ends-meet.

All-in-all evidently it was a tough life--lots of work & continuous struggle of taking in various relatives who were having a tough time of it, etc. I'm sure their stories were told through the memory lens of rose-colored glasses, but the interesting thing was this--evidently they had many happy times!!

Undoubtably their are tough times ahead for this nation (hell, TSHTF has already occurred if you've lost your job, are being foreclosed upon, etc.) but as long as you've got your health, have eaten today & are confident that you'll fill your belly tomorrow, are things really that bad?

Every once in a while I thing we'd all do well to count our blessings & remember how fortunate we are compared to so many people around the world who on a daily basis are living in TSHTF-reality so many of us are concerned about. Good health+food in your stomache+people that love you=good life.

 

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Re: There Will be Joy in the Future Too

Great thread...Unfortunately I don't think I'll be renewing my membership here due to the apparent 'takeover' by gun & gold lovers. 

While many of the moderators do great work & uncover truly informative articles there is a 'overbearing' group (with a lot of time) who only seem interested in talking about weapons & what the latest 'spot' price of gold.  I risk attracting them all here to 'defend' themselves but I'll only request that they let those of us that want to focus on 'change' & 'ideas' to have this thread.

My focus on some posts has been to try to get people thinking about new ideas for positive reinforcement and change in the future.  I think soceity as a whole needs to become more energy aware & that will be my message to people willing to hear it. 

People will get through this, abeit after some turmoil between now and then and with a different lifestyle than maybe what they had expected 5 years ago.  This site has definitely informed me & really enabled me to focus on what my priorities are and should be in the future.

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Re: There Will be Joy in the Future Too

Its a roll of the dice as to where the cards fall for each of us. Obviously we are all here because we realize it might be a very painful future if we do not get ready. And then the stress is over how ready one is. 

great pain can bring great wisdom and insight.  I realize every moment can bring joy if I simply say yes to it. 

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Re: There Will be Joy in the Future Too
maveri wrote:

The biggest question I have is how will the world generate enough food for the current population when oil declines?

Answer:  we can not!  Few like to talk about it and I understand why, it is a horrible thought, however it is a reality that humans will face one day, unless we can figure out new energy sources to replace oil at a one to one basis or population reduces naturally before oil problems happen.  Anyway we cut it, a major change needs to happen over the next 20 years.

If you look at the gardening thread here, you can see how people are (in positive way) giving information to each other and if we the people want to survive is to become more self reliant.  Look at the Argentinian collapse and how people are living there now.  You would put in a full victory garden tomorrow. 

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Re: There Will be Joy in the Future Too
chris_m wrote:

Great thread...

 

...This site has definitely informed me & really enabled me to focus on what my priorities are and should be in the future.

 

Chris,

Don't cut off your nose to spite your face.  I believe this site will continue to be valuable to you, as it is to me.  Skip the threads you are not interested in.  Concentrate on the ones that are helpful to you.  Just a thought.

Mark

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Re: There Will be Joy in the Future Too

I am hopeful to make a transition out of the rat race I am currently in, and I look at the upcoming events as a push to get there. By rat race, I mean the money making profession I am in, and the quaint little suburb, everything that comes with it.

I realize that it will be harder work physically in the future, but I'll only have to answer to my family and myself. I will be at home all day, as will my wife. Our children will have a different relationship with us instead of the rushing from work to pick up the kid to go to guitar practice while the other one needs to go to ball practice, only to have to wait so the gameboy comes out for instant entertainment, etc. etc. etc. Once the change is complete, our lives will be far more intertwined and focused on the same goals. Try as I might, I can only get part way there without the added boost of both parents being home and working together to grow food, etc.

My joy will come as I witness my boys become men in front of my eyes. I will be an integral part of that, rather than just earning a living so they can have what they need and want. I will have joy when money is less relevant than if the fish are bitin'.

As far as small pleasures, hatching chicks and watching them grow is a real kick too. Being closer to nature rather than asphalt just feels right. Powering down and driving very little is something I look forward to, not fret about. It just seems more balanced.

I agree that waste will be viewed very differently, and look forward to getting as close to zero as possible. I think compost will be seen as valuable as gold, and cheap plastic crap from China will be a thing of the past. "They just don't make it like they used to" will be a positive statement, not the negative we hear now.

I could go on, but I completely agree that there will be joy in the future.

Rog

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Re: There Will be Joy in the Future Too

jhelge,

Thanks for bringing this up.  I agree that there's a tendency to focus too much on what might be lost in the transition to come, and not enough on what might be gained.

Most of us aren't happy with the status quo.  Yet we cling to it for dear life.  It's human nature to prefer the misery of the known to the fear of the unknown.

Personally I am looking forward to the transformation.  I realize there will be a lot of hardship and pain, and I don't relish that for anyone.  However, I believe that our current way of life is insane, not to mention patently unsustainable.

What will we have to celebrate?

Re-localized communities and economies.  We'll know the people we buy food and other necessities from, and we'll be investing in the strength of our community with nearly everything we buy.  This will be rewarding in a way most of us haven't experienced.

A more personal connection with food.  We'll grow more food in our own backyards.  We'll shop at farmer's markets.  We'll have a deeper relationship with what we eat and how it is produced.

More meaningful work.  Instead of sitting in a cubicle producing widgets for some nameless international corporate enterprise, our work will likely be more directly related to producing real things of real value to our community.  Again, this will be rewarding in a way most of us might not expect.

More dependence on friends and family.  We're conditioned in this country to believe that "independence" is the ultimate goal. While a certain degree of independence is certainly desirable, when pushed to extremes its a recipe for unhappiness and, ultimately, weakness.  I believe that interdependence is a better goal to strive for.  Humans have lived in tribes, villages or extended family units for hundreds of thousands of years, up until a few generations ago when the single-family unit emerged (in the U.S.; in most other places in the world, people still live in village/tribal/family groups).  I think this has been a major cause of unhappiness.  We're meant to live in close connection with one another.  Humans are social animals.  The coming changes are going to force us to depend on each other again in ways that we haven't for a long time - and that's a good thing.  I can't remember who this was, but I read a story about an elderly woman who lived through the Great Depression.  She said it was the happiest time of her life, because people depended on each other and had rich, meaningful relationships.

A shift away from consumerism.  The work of sociologists like Barry Schwartz and Juliet Schor indicate that although our standard of living has been rising consistently since the late 50s, we're actually less happy now than we were then.  Consumerism and the decline of communities are largely responsible for this.  We've been conditioned to believe that happiness comes from buying more stuff.  We've gotten way off track here.  The coming economic decline will relieve us of this delusion, because all of us will have less stuff and many of us will still find a way to be happy.

A less digital life.  As oil becomes less available and more costly, all of our digital products and networks that depend heavily on oil will also become more scarce and expensive.  Fewer people will be able to afford digital entertainment products.  We'll have to learn to do entertain ourselves with less technology.  Music, crafts, artwork, playing games, telling stories and other human traditions will be the after-dinner activities of choice for many once again.

These are just a few of the shifts I'm looking forward to.  

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Re: There Will be Joy in the Future Too
Ready wrote:

My joy will come as I witness my boys become men in front of my eyes. I will be an integral part of that, rather than just earning a living so they can have what they need and want. I will have joy when money is less relevant than if the fish are bitin'.

As far as small pleasures, hatching chicks and watching them grow is a real kick too. Being closer to nature rather than asphalt just feels right. Powering down and driving very little is something I look forward to, not fret about. It just seems more balanced.

 Rog, you hit the nail on the head as square as can be!!!!!!!!  These were our joys as humans and will be again.  The hard part will be, like you say, gearing down from the rat race and when to gear down with the smoothest plan.

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Re: There Will be Joy in the Future Too

I would have to agree that this site isn't as 'negative' as you guys seem to think. As Mpelchat said, this is an awesome site to learn more self reliance among other things. Personally I learned a ton about water purification, and all I had to do was post the question. I know it may seem small, but I got many positive responses, and multiple examples of great filters. I also learned about food storage, how to store fuel (if I chose to) and many other things.

I can obviously only speak for my own opinion's here, but it seems to me that many are somewhat anxious since world issues seem to be moving at an accelerated pace hence the reason TSHTF scenarios keep popping up, but even those that take part in those threads (my self included) look to solicit opinions on how and what to do as well as areas to watch. No one here has a crystal ball so the more we learn about everything the better prepared everyone can be.  

To give an answer to the question, I believe there will always be joy in life, but I also believe when dark situations are on the horizon it is a smart thing to prepare the best one can that way when the joy (whatever it may be) comes along one can take advantage of it. How can one truly prepare without analyzing TSHTF scenarios. Have you guys thought that you could possibly be pretty well prepared at this point so maybe you'd rather not chat about the possibilities? <----ment as a compliment...

 In my case my wife and my son are my joy. We do our best to turn everything I have been studying into a positive in some way, and in all bluntness, my view of the next 20-30 years on a bigger scale is pretty grim, but that does not mean my family and I (and whomever wants to join us)can't be happy and prosper (prosper = happiness not just money) from it. My wife is working on building up a farm in the back yard, I have been building food storage up, got PM's, water filtration.....you know what is truly a joy, playing with my son while working on the farm with my wife in the back yard. While this is happening I also take my time to teach all those, that want to hear, about whats to come, and how they can also be self reliant. I believe that in itself is a community and is also something that brings joy.

 

 

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Re: There Will be Joy in the Future Too
MarkM wrote:
chris_m wrote:

Great thread...

 

...This site has definitely informed me & really enabled me to focus on what my priorities are and should be in the future.

 

Chris,

Don't cut off your nose to spite your face.  I believe this site will continue to be valuable to you, as it is to me.  Skip the threads you are not interested in.  Concentrate on the ones that are helpful to you.  Just a thought.

Mark

I absolutly agree!!!

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Greer's optimistic comparison to succession in natural ecosystem

That1Guy, I want to hear more about your backyard farm! What's growing there? How big is your yard? We're doing the same, as we didn't buy acreage with our move a year and a half ago, so we're making do on a quarter acre plot in a neighborhood....

 I'm just reading through The Long Descent by John Michael Greer and he writes an appendix on his theory of catabolic collapse (how civilizations collapse by dismantling themselves over long periods of time, cannibalizing infrastructure to maintain existing capital and  keep an ever shrinking level of civilization going).

He points out that when we talk, even in academia, about the loss of sociocultural complexity, it's always couched in negative, even tragic terms. He suggests that a comparison to the process of natural succession in nonhuman organisms and systems can reframe how we see the process. Succession from community to community in an ecosystem is an ongoing and natural process, with the early stages being dominated by species that use resources heavily and inefficiently and produce lots of offspring, but that eventually, the whole system evolves into a mature climax community in which some complexity is lost but the system is stable, efficient and self-perpetuating. He's not suggesting, I don't think, that we're reaching some endpoint in human cultural development, but I think he is pointing out that there's great value to be found in shifting to a more stable, less complex sociocultural system for a time.

It brings me some ease to reframe the process we're in as something natural and with a positive conclusion. Beyond that, I agree with everyone that quality of life will rise dramatically for many Americans. DH and I have been off the work hard-earn money-spend money treadmill for as long as we've had kids, and we feel very, very lucky to have had the experiences of the last 10 years parenting, gardening and puttering around the home.

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Re: There Will be Joy in the Future Too

this thread makes me wonder why chris named it the crash course.

i would suggest a consideration of the stages of awareness. this thread falls under the category of bargaining.

but hey i will cling to my guns and gold and grow a few veggies and try to decide whether to be a willing serf or an unwilling serf.

of course we have a model of happiness and joy in the experience of slavery in this country. it gave birth to the blues and the only american music ........jazz and of course sanctified music. of course at least the slaves knew who their masters were.

sorry if someone out there sees this as a hijack but it kinda goes with the territory

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Re: There Will be Joy in the Future Too
joe2baba wrote:

this thread makes me wonder why chris named it the crash course.

i would suggest a consideration of the stages of awareness. this thread falls under the category of bargaining.

but hey i will cling to my guns and gold and grow a few veggies and try to decide whether to be a willing serf or an unwilling serf.

of course we have a model of happiness and joy in the experience of slavery in this country. it gave birth to the blues and the only american music ........jazz and of course sanctified music. of course at least the slaves knew who their masters were.

sorry if someone out there sees this as a hijack but it kinda goes with the territory

Hi Joe,

I wanted to wish you this... Smile

Cat

 

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Re: There Will be Joy in the Future Too
joe2baba wrote:

this thread makes me wonder why chris named it the crash course.

huh? your mental superiority leaves me not understanding your meaning.

joe2baba wrote:

i would suggest a consideration of the stages of awareness. this thread falls under the category of bargaining.

 

 

 

I pity you that you have left no room in your existence for the chance that not all in life is bad and directed at you.

For what it's worth, not believing in the same exact outcome you subscribe to does NOT make one weak or delusional.

At times, your serfdom posts are entertaining. You often make me giggle. On the other hand, they have no place on this thread. I humbly request that you refrain from further posts on this thread if you have nothing positive to add.

Rog

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Re: There Will be Joy in the Future Too

i love jazz and blues and gospel i believe that is positive. i believe having a bunch of gold is positive and i believe a well armed populace is positive. a consideration of the stages of awareness which was initiated by mr. martenson i find extremely positive and useful. now let me see ....that is at least 6 positive things in my post.now what was it that was positive in your post in response

save your pity for someone who needs it. no one said anyone here was weak or delusional and ascribing that to me is disingenuous

please define humility . and how that relates to you telling me where and when i can post on this site.......talk about mental superiority..............

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Re: There Will be Joy in the Future Too
cat233 wrote:

Hi Joe,

I wanted to wish you this... Smile

Cat

 

 

Ditto.

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Re: There Will be Joy in the Future Too

I apologize to the participants of this thread for my part in de-railing it.

Rog

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Re: There Will be Joy in the Future Too

There is no need for apologizing here. Personally, I believe all forms of music, to include jazz, blues, and gospel are positive, I also think gold is a positive thing as well, and self security, whether it is martial arts (which I practice), ASPs (I have 2), or guns can also be positive.

 Frankly speaking, on the stages of awareness, Joe2 is right, this would be the bargaining stage, that is also a positive thing, and simply goes in line with what I had said about the possibility of those that don't like talking about certain scenarios are already pretty well prepared. In other words, you have most everything you feel you need, so on to bargaining to make the bad things we all know coming more acceptable to us.

I know I don't know Joe, but all his posts are written with that type of humor involved. That doesn't mean what he is saying doesn't have truth to it....

just my opinion...

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Re: Greer's optimistic comparison to succession in natural ...
suesullivan wrote:

That1Guy, I want to hear more about your backyard farm! What's growing there? How big is your yard? We're doing the same, as we didn't buy acreage with our move a year and a half ago, so we're making do on a quarter acre plot in a neighborhood....

 .

Hi Sue,

Well, My yard here in England isn't that big either...well its big for England....I'll have to take some pictures.

Currently we have raspberry's, strawberries, green beans, zucchini, yellow squash, garlic, acouple kinds of tomato, Chili peppers and oregano. We are looking to add more garlic, green beans, onions,  and maybe carrots if we can fit them. After that whatever we add will be for fun, like Blueberries, because they are tasty...hehe. We also have an apple tree in the corner too.

It wasn't the easiest thing to set up, and still arent totally done with it. The wife and I had to dig up the grass on the left and right side of the yard; about 3 feet deep on both sides running the length of the yard (maybe 10-12 feet...). The left side is all dug up....still working on the right. It won't be as big on that side because we don't want to get close to the apple tree since I know that will need a lot of water, and may make other plants sufer if they are too close.

It is a bit of work, but we have fun doing it. Although, after the major parts are ready for planting,  I end up keeping our 3 year old busy out there while the wife plans the layout. She has a lot of fun with the designing part of it, which makes me happy to see.

By the way, my little guy starts his first day of school on the 20th !!!  I know it has nothing to do with this, just thought I would share.... Tongue out

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Re: There Will be Joy in the Future Too

Is there some reason you guys are leaving bluegrass off the list?

Okay, I know why Cat is.

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Re: There Will be Joy in the Future Too

Thank you all for your insight. Please be aware that this
thread is not intended to supplant those focused on preparation. Nor is it a reprimand
of those engaged in serious discussions about the same. It occurred to me the
other day that analysis of this aspect of the 'crash' could yield some fruitful
insight. I sensed that it had potential to enhance the dialog of this site. I
feel it already has with many of your posts.

 

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Re: There Will be Joy in the Future Too

Speaking of bluegrass...

Life is like a Crash Course forum

Sometimes you feel a bit derailed

But the joy is in the knowing

You can blaze a brand new trail!

Whoo! Whoo!

 

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Re: Greer's optimistic comparison to succession in natural ...
suesullivan wrote:

[Greer] points out that when we talk, even in academia, about the loss of sociocultural complexity, it's always couched in negative, even tragic terms. He suggests that a comparison to the process of natural succession in nonhuman organisms and systems can reframe how we see the process. Succession from community to community in an ecosystem is an ongoing and natural process, with the early stages being dominated by species that use resources heavily and inefficiently and produce lots of offspring, but that eventually, the whole system evolves into a mature climax community in which some complexity is lost but the system is stable, efficient and self-perpetuating. He's not suggesting, I don't think, that we're reaching some endpoint in human cultural development, but I think he is pointing out that there's great value to be found in shifting to a more stable, less complex sociocultural system for a time.

Suesullivan that is a really fascinating insight. That cycle of growth,
disturbance, then new healthier growth is a characteristic of many biological
systems. I think you have hit upon something valuable applying that to cultural
phenomena.

 

I make my living in Restoration Ecology. In a nutshell, that is
rehabilitating ecosystems which have degraded do to human activity. In my
region, Chicago, prairie once dominated the landscape. Prairies are systems
literally defined by fire. Fire is an essential disturbance, without which they
would never exist.

Fire, which is widely regarded with negativity by many people, provides the
ecosystem with irreplaceable services. It recycles nutrients from old dead
growth to that of the living community. It opens up the canopy to light,
creating new opportunities for younger plants. It knocks back woody growth, and
maintains the prairie's open atmosphere, which would otherwise succeed into a
forest ecology.

To see the growth of a burned prairie in the spring is to witness a rebirth.
Out of the ashes burst potent color and vibrant life. Plants that may have lied
dormant for decades come out in full bloom. Heated by the blackened earth, the
community quickly rebuilds. Seed viability can double, since plants have access
to more nutrients and sunlight. The way is cleared for a new generation.

Key to this phoenix-like resurrection is the fact that many of the plants
involved "prepare" in that they are evolutionarily adapted to store
significant reserves of energy below ground, waiting for such an event. If we
hope to likewise thrive, it is essential that we prepare.  

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Re: There Will be Joy in the Future Too
joe2baba wrote:

i would suggest a consideration of the stages of awareness. this thread falls under the category of bargaining.

I completely disagree.  Bargaining is hoping/wishing that if one changes their behavior or attitude, they'll be spared from pain.

I don't see a single response in this thread reflecting that view.  Everyone who has posted on this thread has stated clearly that they expect pain and hardship in the coming years.  Nobody is gnoring the very real challenges we face.

Hard times are coming.  But that doesn't mean there won't be room for joy, connection and love in our lives.  In every crisis lies the seed of opportunity, and that is as true on a community, national and global level as it is on an individual level.  

I listed several outcomes above that are likely based on prevailing trends.  While some people may not see those outcomes as positive initially (i.e. they may mourn the loss of their 45 inch plasma screen TV), over time I think people will see the benefit of those changes in their lives.

Of course it also depends on how people respond.  If they're attached to the way things are now, and unable to let go of that attachment, it will take longer for them to adapt.  But I actually think a lot of people will realize fairly quickly that a lot of things in our modern life aren't worth saving or grieving over.

You're entitled to your opinion, Joe, but I think your criticisms here are misguided.

 

 

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Re: There Will be Joy in the Future Too

"Great thread...Unfortunately I don't think I'll be renewing my membership here due to the apparent 'takeover' by gun & gold lovers."

Just ignore them.....  I DO! 

Personally, I've never been happier.  Starting our Transition Town and meeting lots of like minded people alone has improved our lives tremendously....

I no longer feel depressed about the state of affairs in the world today, merely frustrated that it doesn't have to be this way.  All the conspiracies to form a one world government blah blah blah will simply run out of fuel.  Just worry about your inner circle, the demons of this world will eventually just fade away.

Mike 

 

Croatoan's picture
Croatoan
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 21 2009
Posts: 42
Re: There Will be Joy in the Future Too

Everyone,

True joy is not dependent upon external conditions. 

I do not worry about the future, but like an animal that knows when to get out of the rain before it comes, I react to signals picked up by intuition. If I get wet, that is fine. If I do not get wet, that is fine as well. I am in the midst of great happiness through all of this. This is what keeps me from feeling the need to get a gun.

For a very good, humorous, hour long talk on this subject:

"Joy at last to learn there is no happiness in the world!" 

 

 

becky's picture
becky
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 8 2009
Posts: 113
Re: There Will be Joy in the Future Too

I've been thinking about this thread all day and to me, it feels more like a little glimmer of the Acceptance phase.

jhelge's picture
jhelge
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 7 2009
Posts: 43
Re: There Will be Joy in the Future Too
joe2baba wrote:

this thread makes me wonder why chris named it the crash course.

i would suggest a consideration of the stages of awareness. this thread falls under the category of bargaining.

but hey i will cling to my guns and gold and grow a few veggies and try to decide whether to be a willing serf or an unwilling serf.

of course we have a model of happiness and joy in the experience of slavery in this country. it gave birth to the blues and the only american music ........jazz and of course sanctified music. of course at least the slaves knew who their masters were.

sorry if someone out there sees this as a hijack but it kinda goes with the territory

Joe,

Did you ever consider it could be acceptance (the one after depression)? I
have read many of your posts and I appreciate your insight on a variety of
issues. I decided my first thread authored on this site would be a positive
one. While I could have posted one on Neofeudalism or assassinations at the
hand of those in control of the IMF, those bases appear to be covered. I
thought it would be nice to have a thread that was not as Bilderberg-y as many
have become. That said, it isn't unwelcome to offer outside ideas, so long as
we can discuss positive aspects of the crash. I agree that music will play a larger
role in our lives. I am not sure what we will play.

Though I recognize your accuracy in acknowledging many disturbing trends, I
do not agree that outcomes are necessarily so unfortunate. I think we part ways
in our philosophies regarding the abandonment of romanticism. Yours seems to be
one of fatalism. Despite whatever efforts are exerted by people, their fate is
predetermined by forces outside their agency. Correct me if I'm wrong. At a
glance, it is the impression I get from posts like this one.

I firmly believe that people are their own agents. While many have forgotten
this most valuable of gifts endowed by our creator, the infrastructure remains
to reclaim their potency once (if?) they awaken. This reminds me of another
thing I would cherish in a changed world: the restoration of the rule of law as
set forth in the Constitution of the United States. I have faith that that
document can bring down TPTB when wielded by a population which finally accepts
its legacy. 

It is possible that such faith is a flaw in my core beliefs. If so, I will
likely protagonize in my own Greek-tragedy. Like any good tragedy, I must
follow this path because of who I am and arrive in a place of existential
anguish. It would be preordained by the stars. Our philosophies not so
different, except perhaps by disposition.

Don't worry about hijacking anything here. Hijack only works when claims go undisputed.
Seeing as how we are still (miraculously) free to discuss things in public
forums, there is no danger of hijack.

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