TheMoneyFix.org- Great movie on fixing our currency crisis

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The Evolutionary Ape's picture
The Evolutionary Ape
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TheMoneyFix.org- Great movie on fixing our currency crisis

TheMoneyFix.org has a movie that discusses the problems with our currency and how it contributes to many social problems.  What I loved about this is that it also offers many solutions that are already in use across the world.  I have seen many movies that illustrate the problem and leave me feeling hopeless because they don't offer many solutions.

The first half of the movie discusses ideas many of us have heard such as that our monetary system is really nothing but a perpetual debt system (there's never enough money to cover the principal and interest that are due on a dollar bill issued into the money supply), but the movie informed me of some views that I had not thought of also, such as that we went from depositing gold in a bank and getting reserve notes in the form of cash to plastic cards that have worth due to computers beaming numbers across the stratosphere into our accounts.  The entity in control of the beaming is the bank, and therefore we live in a political system that is a banking oligarchy.

The movie also talks about how a currency can affect how a society and its citizens operate on daily basis and influence the values and attitudes of that society.  We in America tend to live in a mindframe of scarcity which is an inherent byproduct of our debt driven currency system because there's always someone who doesn't have the money to cover their portion or the debt and interest owed on the dollars in circulation.  This mindframe extends beyond money and ultimately translates into a me first mindframe on some level for most citizens.  The movie talks about how this type of system and thinking is counter to what is reflected in the laws of nature. 

I could go on, but the movie does much better than I could ever explain.  The movie can be found at themoneyfix.org

G-Money's picture
G-Money
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Re: TheMoneyFix.org- Great movie on fixing our currency ...

TEA -

With all due respect I couldn't disagree more about this film.

Basically the film tries to contrast the "evil" of capitalism (which according to the movie is rooted only in cutthroat COMPETITION) with the "harmony" of the natural world (which is built upon COOPERATION). This is a laughable premise.

It is because of competition that the natural ecosystems described in the film function harmoniously. Not because the little creatures and plants that fill their unique niche have decided to cooperate. In fact, the natural ecosystems described in the film are a great analogy for an unhampered free-market economy, rather than its antithesis.  

I find it ironic that your handle is the EVOLUTIONARY ape, as the makers of this film clearly do not understand how evolution works.

I don't have time to get it to everything that was wrong with its caricature of capitalism.

G

strabes's picture
strabes
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Re: TheMoneyFix.org- Great movie on fixing our currency ...

it's not addressing economics...if they say that they're not being precise.  they're addressing the monetary system...very different from the economic system. 

our monetary system unfortunately distorts our economic system such that it is not about anything close to free market capitalism.  it is financial oligarchy.  it pits the masses against each other in competition for limited bank credit while oligarchs at the top gain control and power over everything else.  sounds like you haven't thought that through as you're still holding onto ideology about the greatness of our system. 

because we have debt-based money, we live in an unstable system built on P < P+I which drives exponential growth, increasing scale, increasing velocity.  the natural world doesn't have that problem. 

 

G-Money's picture
G-Money
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Re: TheMoneyFix.org- Great movie on fixing our currency ...

I belong to the Austrian/Libertarian school so I'm well aware that our system is a gross distortion of an actual free-market. You obviously didn't take time to really read what I wrote (or look at my sig).

Let me ask, did you actually watch the movie? 

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James Wandler
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Re: TheMoneyFix.org- Great movie on fixing our currency ...

G-Money and all,

I would invite you to consider the discussion that was held in the forum I link below. 

http://www.peakprosperity.com/forum/monetary-missing-puzzle-peice/35436

If you like, I'd suggest that you continue the discussion in this TheMoneyFix.org forum since this is one of the latest six forums created and thus it is easier for everyone to review than the older forums.

Incidentally, the types of ecological relationships are well discussed in Chapter 8 of David Holmgren's book: "Permaculture: Principles and Pathways Beyond Sustainability" and include relationships that are: predatory, parasitic, competitive, avoidance, mutualism, and symbiotic .  Nature is far more complex than we might commonly believe. 

The current debt based monetary system requires continous growth which is not compatible with a world of finite limits.  Amongst many other considerations (the full scope of the 3E's) David Holmgren's principles need to be taken into account when devising a replacement monetary system.  I highly recommend his book to all since the book's world view of civilization's adjustment to a low energy future is so integrated, comprehensive, and far reaching, that it can be difficult to read more than a few pages each day.

Cheers,

James

The Evolutionary Ape's picture
The Evolutionary Ape
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Re: TheMoneyFix.org- Great movie on fixing our currency ...

G-Money,

Thanks for offering your perspective.  I guess we got two different meanings from the movie.  My main takeaway was that I'm sure the suggested systems in the movie have flaws, but at the same time there's a need for our current way of facilitating trade to evolve, which includes an evolution of our monetary system.  Our method of trade has evolved from from bartering for the early man to the fiat currencies of today.  But just as the human mind, physical body, and understanding of spirituality have evolved over man's existence, our ways of conducting day to day life must also evolve, including the way we exchange goods and services.  My opinion is that part of this evolution should address substituting our current fiat currency systems for something more efficient and toward the good of as much of mankind as possible.  I feel our current debt based currencies don't accomplish this.

James I'm gonna have to pick up some of the books that you mentioned in the other forum post as well as David Holmgren.   I agree this is a complex subject and a simple solution will not solve our current monetary problems.  Thanks for pointing toward the other forum...lot's of great things said there.

James Wandler's picture
James Wandler
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Re: TheMoneyFix.org- Great movie on fixing our currency ...

Thanks TEA,

If you get The Lost Science of Money you'll actually find that we've been using fiat money for thousands of years.  Yes gold and silver have been around as well but they are really a lower form of money - because they require the gold and silver to conduct the trade.  With fiat the trade can be facilitated just by creating money "out of thin air" - you don't have to go to the trouble of digging stuff out of the ground just to be able to get grain grown, ground, and made into bread.

There is a big difference between a debt based money system and a fiat money system.  We have both in our society but mostly it is debt based money (the stuff in the bank account - where if everyone went to the bank to withdraw their funds the banks wouldn't be able to comply because most money in the bank is a receivable from someone who has a debt).  When you do get "cash" you see something that appears to be government issued and this is the fiat in the system.

The problem with the debt based money system is the interest that accrues - requiring us to run on a treadmill to create "growth" in the physical world to convince someone else to part with their money in exchange for what we've done.  If we are at the inflection point of civilization where growth is no longer possible then exponentially increasing money due to interest becomes impossible.

Bernard Leitaer is quoted in the movie and his book I wish everyone could get is "The Future of Money".  In that book Leitaer argues that fiat is a patriarchial currency that needs to be complemented with a matre focused complementary currency in a yin yang relationship.  This would be a local currency.  Thus one for trade within your community and one with the world at large.

Leitaer goes on to talk about currencies used for social purposes and Time Dollars could be an example of this.  We truly are in the infancy of monetary systems.  I think his idea of negative interest in currency is brilliant - but we have to get to the starting line with our understanding of the current system.

His book is so brilliant that I often wonder why it hasn't been in reprint.  You'll see it on E-Bay for some $250.  Could the book be too enlightening?  He now writes in German and French if you can read those languages.

Cheers,

James

G-Money's picture
G-Money
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Re: TheMoneyFix.org- Great movie on fixing our currency ...

TEA -

We can agree to disagree. I just am happy that there are actually some people (like you) spending their time trying to better understand what's going on.

Like I've said, I come from an Austrian perspective and am very much aware of the inherent problems with fiat money. However, this movie (like so many) seems to be unable to make the distinction between Capitalism (what I'd call a true free market system) and the current system (some unholy amalgamation of Socialism and Corporatism with a Capitalism sticker on it). So that is one of my gripes.

I also really dislike whenever the image of the "harmony of nature" is evoked as the antithesis of Capitalism. To me they (true Capitalism - not our current system) are actually very similar. Species (companies) evolve in an attempt to survive. There certainly is an appearance of cooperation at any given time, but in actuality there is constant competition for resources (market share). The fittest (most efficient) survive and procreate (profit) while the less fit (unprofitable) become extinct (go bankrupt). 

Obviously this analogy fails miserably using our current system. Nobody bailed out the Woolly Mammoth. Tongue out

Anyways. Keep on studying and so will I.

James Wandler's picture
James Wandler
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Re: TheMoneyFix.org- Great movie on fixing our currency ...

G-Money,

Within the enrolled member section Chris has just recommended "The Origin of Wealth" - this has a heavy discussion of the process of evolution.  For instance, you say that "the most efficient" survive.  Test your theory by reading this book.

In all the books I've read to chart the way forward, and there are many many books in the meta analysis I've done, the scientific assessment of the process of evolution in this book was the greatest intellectual challenge I had to overcome.

Incidentally, I do not necessarily agree or disagree with the premise of the movie.  Everything of relevance that you read or watch will give you key insights - there is nothing I have found that gives you the complete picture.  However, the most complete book I've found so far is Mike Nickerson's "Life, Money, and Illusion".  Mike has done his own meta analysis of these problems and solutions and gives 100+ group presentations each year promoting transformative change.  His website is www.sustainwellbeing.net

Regardless of what you watch or read I will say that we must release all beliefs in order to fully move forward.  I am not suggesting a new belief system - just limitless possiblities.  We each need to find our place within these limitless possibilities.

The future is up to you.  It is up to all of us.

Cheers,

James

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SteveW
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Re: TheMoneyFix.org- Great movie on fixing our currency ...
G-Money wrote:

I also really dislike whenever the image of the "harmony of nature" is evoked as the antithesis of Capitalism. To me they (true Capitalism - not our current system) are actually very similar. Species (companies) evolve in an attempt to survive. There certainly is an appearance of cooperation at any given time, but in actuality there is constant competition for resources (market share). The fittest (most efficient) survive and procreate (profit) while the less fit (unprofitable) become extinct (go bankrupt). 

A main talking point I took away from the movie, which I consider to be about debt money rather than capitalism per se, is that we are in a rat race competing to find the non-created interest to pay off our debt.

The "harmony of nature" is a feature of old, stable, well established ecosystems. Evolution is not necessary for survival of a well established species living in a mature ecosystem (for example ants have not changed significantly in over 300 million years). It is well known to biologists that species appear to evolve most rapidly when entirely new niches open up, such as the Pacific volcanoes (like Hawaii). The apparent rapid evolution simply means that the variant types that are always arising do not have to compete with overwhelming numbers of dominant forms of an established system. As the new ecosytem develops then competition is undoubtedly fierce until the system matures into stability.

Survival of the fittest is much misunderstood.

 

 

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