Taxes to high

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No_Fiat's picture
No_Fiat
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Taxes to high

 Why are those that make over $250,000.00 fiat dollars a year feel they are paying to much in taxes. Take a look at the federal tax history and you will see for yourself how ludicrous that excuse really is.

“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.” 

Albert Einstein 

chaset66's picture
chaset66
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  Why are those that make

 

Why are those that make over $250,000.00 fiat dollars a year feel they are paying too much in taxes?

I cannot speak for the $250,000+ as I am nowhere near that tax range, but I also feel that I pay too much in taxes. Not because it places an undo hardship on my finances, but simply because the return on that investment is severely lacking in my opinion.  I feel my tax dollars are squandered, and wasted. We could presume many feel the same way, without going into politics and all that. It may be that simple for most people.

Take a look at the federal tax history and you will see for yourself how ludicrous that excuse really is.

No offense, but it has been higher and lower, granted generally higher for the more well off. But still it seems you are implying they should count themselves lucky they are not in 19XX and paying 60-90% in taxes, so basically deal with it? In 1916 it looks like they would have paid 10%, some years as much as 90%. One could argue that to be ‘fair’ a flat tax is needed; or flip that and say the wealthier should pay more it’s all opinions, beliefs, and feelings.

I am sorry if this sounds rude (I can’t really gauge your post), but they can feel whatever they want. Your post left a lot out to be assumed. If you’re saying taxes are too high, then I agree 150% and not just for one sub-group of people. If your post is simply portraying anyone who earns more then $250k as whiners who should pay more, simply because they did in the past then I disagree.

 

dshields's picture
dshields
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taxes make me crazy

chaset66 - agree.

A flat tax seems like an excellent idea to me.  About 47% of the people in America don't pay any Fed Gov income tax at all - many actually get paid by the Fed Gov for sending in a tax return.  This seems amazing to me.  How is this possible ?  How did we get into this shape ?  How did we fall this far ?  I know what happened.  Don't bother wasting electrons on trying to tell me.

Remember, the top 10% pay about 70% of the Fed income taxes now.  The top 1% pay about 34% of the fed income taxes.  Our tax system is severely tilted against the achievement oriented portion of our society.  I do not believe that people who work hard should be punished by the government for doing so.  In America the constitution guarantees the right of private property.  Your income is your private property.  Some taxes need to be paid to support the legitimate activities of the government.  The root problem is the gov does a lot of things it should not be doing.  The current crop of politicians do not seem to be able to control it.  Just check out the super committee thing.  The 1.2 trillion over 10 years they are struggling with is nothing.  It is like spitting in the ocean and trying to raise the tide.  The same thing with the so called "tax the rich".  There are not even close to enough rich people.  Forbes estimates there are about 235,000 people in America with net assets (liabilities subtracted from assets) of over one million dollars.  Many of the 235,000 fall into the 1 to 10 million range.  If the Fed Gov literally confiscates all the assets of the so called rich it would only cover the deficit for one year.  What are you going to do about the following year ?  It simply does not work.  It will not make any difference at all.  Go look at the numbers.  Do some research.  The problem is not that we do not tax enough.  We have very high taxes.  The problem is we spend way too much.  The Fed Gov is currently spending about 40% more than it is taking in.  Massive cuts in spending have to be and will be made.  The question for the people of the US is how these massive cuts are going to be handled.  If we are going to handle them in a organized fashion through the legislative process or are they going to be handled in a disorganized manner through financial emergency and collapse. 

 I was hoping we would handle it in an organized manner.  But, after observing what has been going on for the last couple of years I now doubt this is the path we will take.  I would suggest that you start now to prepare for a financial emergency and possibly some sort of temporary collapse.  It just can not hurt to be prepared.  I buy car insurance but I do not hope for a car wreck.  That is how I see preparing for a financial emergency.  I spend some money over time to prepare and hope we do not have one.

chaset66's picture
chaset66
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  A flat tax in my opinion

 

A flat tax in my opinion is the ‘best’ solution, whether or not we see that come to fruition I cannot say. Personally I don’t see any change in the government coming (at least any earnest change), except after a major collapse when the entire population center is shaken awake. I anticipate a few PR band-aids, and a few scraps of bread before a coliseum fight to appease the masses. Until enough people remove the social, and political blinders that we pick up through media we won’t truly change much. Meanwhile we have less energy, demanded by more people; we all know that story…

So I reckon work where we can change, locally which can sometimes be just as hard!

All that said, the only real option is to influence what you can on a personal level. I grew up in a house with the ‘Bad Time Bins’ and over time even my family and I forgot the value of storing for less than ideal times. Storing staples and some PM’s can’t really harm; trying to get others to look around and see what’s going on can’t really hurt either.  So we started preparing for the worst while working toward the best. Will my stored food and PM’s save the economy? – No. But it will surely help save my family if we have a collapse. And hopefully after a collapse the rebuild will be on a better foundation. If nothing bad ever happens… well I won’t have to go shopping for awhile –Win/Win!

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osb272646
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Taxes too high

The easiest way for politicians to cover up their own ineptitude and redirect attention away from themselves is to scapegoat some innocent bystander.  In the case of the “taxing the rich” debate, it’s working for them pretty well.   It’s too bad that we as a society are incapable of seeing through these diversions for what they are.

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SteveR
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Historical Tax Rates

When looking at historical tax rates, you need to remember that before 1986, it was much easier to shelter income.  So yeah, maybe tax rates were 70%, but a smart doctor or lawyer would own rental property that would emit phantom depreciation, which could be used as a loss to offset earned income.

The Tax Act of 1986 plugged that loophole by separating income and losses into different "bucket" types, such as earned, passive, and portfolio - and in general, losses from one bucket cannot be applied to income in another.

Nate's picture
Nate
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According to John Williams

According to John Williams (shadow stats), if the Federal Government used GAAP and taxed BOTH individuals and corporations at 100%, we would still have deficits.  No $ left for states, local communitities, or food. 

So, are we taxed too much?

SingleSpeak's picture
SingleSpeak
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Yes we are.

 

The income tax is wrong on so many levels. It discourages people from working. It is theft at the point of a gun. It diverts so much productive time, money, and brain power from useful pursuits like creating new and better sustainable energy (or new and better anything) to stratagizing and documenting how to protect the money that one earns.

Of course no tax is really needed when you can tax by inflation by using QE (without them even figuring it out usually). Everytime the government prints, they vaccuum a little out of everyone's pocket.

Some type of use tax or sales tax would be more fair although I'm not sure how much. If you were a major consumer, you would pay more than a minor consumer just by buying more stuff. Would it not be more fair for someone that decides to have several children and therefore consumes more public and private resources be taxed more than someone that perhaps has one child or no children. At least then you would have an incentive to earn and save money, which does not exist today. A country that does not save, ends up, well, kinda like we are today - screwed.

SS

doorwarrior's picture
doorwarrior
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SS wrote: Some type of use

SS wrote:

Some type of use tax or sales tax would be more fair although I'm not sure how much. If you were a major consumer, you would pay more than a minor consumer just by buying more stuff. Would it not be more fair for someone that decides to have several children and therefore consumes more public and private resources be taxed more than someone that perhaps has one child or no children.

I believe that it would be fair for people that "use" more pay more in taxes. Remember to consume more is a choice not a necessity. They chose to have more children therefore they chose to use more resources both public and private. If people choose to be bigger consumers they would also  choose to pay more taxes. They could also mitigate their expenses by growing their own food, wearing things out instead of just buying new or reducing their energy consumption to name a few. A sales/use tax is very fair, if you use more you pay more, it would also push people to become more energy efficient and even more resillient.

I am tired of paying massive ammounts of taxes to subsidise other peoples lives.

Rich

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doorwarrior
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Nate wrote: According to

Nate wrote:

According to John Williams (shadow stats), if the Federal Government used GAAP and taxed BOTH individuals and corporations at 100%, we would still have deficits.  No $ left for states, local communitities, or food. 

So, are we taxed too much?

I dont see the connection here. Are you saying we should be taxed over 100% to pay for govt. spending?

What we need is a govt. for the people that spends within its means. So, I think a better question woud be does the govt. spend too much.

Rich

Nate's picture
Nate
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doorwarrior wrote: I am
doorwarrior wrote:

I am tired of paying massive ammounts of taxes to subsidise other peoples lives.

Rich

AMEN!

doorwarrior's picture
doorwarrior
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No Fiat wrote: Why are those

No Fiat wrote:

Why are those that make over $250,000.00 fiat dollars a year feel they are paying to much in taxes. Take a look at the federal tax history and you will see for yourself how ludicrous that excuse really is.

This statement implies you think that the ammount of current government spending is acceptable and that we should dig deeper into our pockets to pay for it. Instead of asking why a certain group should pay more you should ask why doesn't the govt. spend within its means(or maybe I should say witin our means). Why does federal spending have to account for 1/4 of GDP not to mention state and local spending. Take a look at federal spending versus GDP and you will see how ludicrous their spending habits have been over the last 50 years compared to the first 150.

This doesn't even take into account the amount of pure bureaucracy and waste for government at all levels.  Just because our political system wants to spend more and more and waste more and more does not mean they should be allowed to steal more and more of my hard earned money.

Rich

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